Browse content similar to 01/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Another political week dominated
by Brexit and the potential | 0:00:06 | 0:00:08 | |
consequences for the Irish border. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:11 | |
So is there any way of bridging
the gap between Brussels | 0:00:11 | 0:00:13 | |
and Downing Street? | 0:00:13 | 0:00:14 | |
And where does all of that leave us? | 0:00:14 | 0:00:16 | |
Welcome to The View. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:24 | |
Tonight... | 0:00:39 | 0:00:39 | |
The Brussels plan for Ireland, North
and South, may never materialise - | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
but while it's the only show
in town, it's causing | 0:00:42 | 0:00:45 | |
rows all over the place. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:50 | |
I think some of the wilder claims
made by some people need to be | 0:00:51 | 0:00:55 | |
reeled in. We need to get on with
the practical job of negotiating a | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
trade deal between the UK and the
rest of the EU. There has to be a | 0:00:59 | 0:01:04 | |
solution that comes forward, and
there is nothing coming forward as | 0:01:04 | 0:01:08 | |
far as I can see from the Unionists. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:14 | |
Nigel Dodds and Emily Thornberry set
out their stalls and the DUP's | 0:01:14 | 0:01:16 | |
deputy leader tells me "mistrust
and bad blood" make | 0:01:16 | 0:01:19 | |
a return to devolution
unlikely in the short-term. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:21 | |
And while Theresa May made it clear
she's opposed to a border | 0:01:21 | 0:01:23 | |
in the middle of the Irish Sea,
what are the chances | 0:01:23 | 0:01:26 | |
of building a bridge across it? | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
I would hope that we would certainly
have the capability and the talent, | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
the engineering and architectural
talent in both countries to do it. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:33 | |
I would certainly hope
that we would have a building built, | 0:01:33 | 0:01:36 | |
a bridge built by 2025. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:37 | |
And dusting off their snow shoes -
tonight's commentators | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
are Allison Morris and Sam McBride. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:45 | |
"Time to come up with a better
idea" - the advice of | 0:01:45 | 0:01:48 | |
the European Council President,
Donald Tusk, to Theresa May | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
as the fall-out continues
after yesterday's publication | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
of the EU's draft withdrawal treaty. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:57 | |
The document runs to 120 pages -
but it's the proposals around | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
the future of the border
here which have caused the uproar. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
I'll be getting two very different
political perspectives | 0:02:04 | 0:02:12 | |
First from Emily Thornberry. First,
her thoughts on the draft EU treaty. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:25 | |
Northern Ireland as part of the UK
and whatever agreement we have has | 0:02:29 | 0:02:34 | |
to retain the integrity of Northern
Ireland as part of the UK, but we | 0:02:34 | 0:02:37 | |
have to have a soft border between
the north than the South. That's | 0:02:37 | 0:02:43 | |
what's important. The British
government agreed to that before | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
Christmas. They said they would find
a way that we would have a soft | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
border. They signed up to that. They
have since said we would be in the | 0:02:51 | 0:02:55 | |
single market or the customs union
but they've not come forward with | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
any other alternative proposals. So
the EU said, well, you agreed to a | 0:02:58 | 0:03:05 | |
soft border. You haven't come up
with anything. All we've got is | 0:03:05 | 0:03:10 | |
single market and customs union,
what have you got? You've got no | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
proposals at all. So if you don't
want to have a border between North | 0:03:14 | 0:03:18 | |
and South, are you talking about it
being in the middle of the sea? | 0:03:18 | 0:03:23 | |
Obviously there is no way we would
agree to that. Of course we | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
wouldn't. But the solution is in
front of their faces. We have to be | 0:03:26 | 0:03:31 | |
in a customs union. We have been
thinking about this in the Labour | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
Party long and hard for 21 months,
since the referendum. As far as we | 0:03:36 | 0:03:41 | |
are concerned, there is no other
solution. There's no other solution | 0:03:41 | 0:03:45 | |
in terms of looking after the
economy, in terms of maintaining | 0:03:45 | 0:03:49 | |
jobs, and we have to be thinking
about that first and foremost and | 0:03:49 | 0:03:53 | |
then also about peace Ireland. The
Prime Minister dismissed any idea of | 0:03:53 | 0:03:58 | |
the UK remaining in a customs union
with the EU, in equally strident | 0:03:58 | 0:04:05 | |
terms to her dismissal of today's EU
proposals. Well, she's wrong. She's | 0:04:05 | 0:04:12 | |
the Prime Minister. She's still
wrong, and I didn't think the | 0:04:12 | 0:04:17 | |
majority of the House of Commons
agrees with her. I think that she is | 0:04:17 | 0:04:21 | |
being reckless. She being reckless,
she's playing with peace. She's | 0:04:21 | 0:04:26 | |
playing with the Constitution of the
country. She's cutting off her nose | 0:04:26 | 0:04:30 | |
to spite her face, she has to change
her mind. How is she playing with | 0:04:30 | 0:04:35 | |
peace? Because the balance in
Ireland has been long negotiated. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:41 | |
3000 people lost their lives. We
negotiated a balance between the | 0:04:41 | 0:04:45 | |
Irish government and British
government, guarantees of a soft | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
border, guarantees of peace, of a
future, etc. It is there and finely | 0:04:48 | 0:04:55 | |
balanced. If they start behaving in
a way that will result in a hard | 0:04:55 | 0:05:00 | |
border between Northern Ireland and
the rest of Ireland, that threatens | 0:05:00 | 0:05:04 | |
peace. You know it does. Who is
threatening to go back to war? It | 0:05:04 | 0:05:10 | |
certainly upsets the balance of what
was agreed in the Good Friday | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
Agreement, but it doesn't unlock the
door for people to go back to | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
violence, does it? What it does is
it ranks up the pressure and the | 0:05:18 | 0:05:22 | |
tension. If we start having a hard
border then I think that's what it | 0:05:22 | 0:05:26 | |
does, and the piece is so finely
balanced in Ireland, nobody can be | 0:05:26 | 0:05:32 | |
complacent about this. The Good
Friday Agreement has held up across | 0:05:32 | 0:05:37 | |
the world. I met the president of
Columbia and they said how much they | 0:05:37 | 0:05:42 | |
had learned from the Good Friday
Agreement. It is an example of good | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
practice. They are being so arrogant
in the way in which just because of | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
their dogma, they are prepared to
risk it. You shouldn't be risking | 0:05:49 | 0:05:56 | |
it. Sammy Wilson accused the Labour
leadership of having supported Sinn | 0:05:56 | 0:06:01 | |
Fein, which he alleges conducted a
campaign of genocide along the | 0:06:01 | 0:06:05 | |
border. He argued IRA violence and
necessitated a hard border during | 0:06:05 | 0:06:16 | |
the troubles. He said it is more
about under minding the EU | 0:06:16 | 0:06:20 | |
referendum result than anything
else. Does he have a point? I can't | 0:06:20 | 0:06:25 | |
tell you how insulted I am by that.
I'm really insulted. I have Irish | 0:06:25 | 0:06:32 | |
heritage too. I want a good future
for Northern Ireland within the UK. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
That's what I want, because that's
what the Northern Irish people want. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:41 | |
But we have to find a peaceful way
forward which means we have to be | 0:06:41 | 0:06:44 | |
pragmatic. What I would say to
Unionists in Northern Ireland is | 0:06:44 | 0:06:50 | |
it's all very well for you to say
there mustn't be a border between | 0:06:50 | 0:06:54 | |
Northern Ireland and the rest of the
UK, there mustn't be a border | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
between Northern Ireland and the
rest of Ireland, and yet the UK can | 0:06:58 | 0:07:04 | |
diverged, and yet the UK can develop
an economy in a different way to the | 0:07:04 | 0:07:08 | |
rest of the EU, but there isn't
going to be a border. Nobody seems | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
to be challenging them about the
illogicality of that. There has to | 0:07:11 | 0:07:18 | |
be a solution and there is nothing
that is coming forward from the | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
Unionists on this. The Prime
Minister said today in the House of | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
Commons there will be no hard border
between Northern Ireland and the | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
Republic, no hard border between
Northern Ireland and Great Britain | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
and no customs union between the UK
and EU. It just doesn't work. What | 0:07:31 | 0:07:40 | |
their alternative? Is it something
to do with unicorns? We've heard | 0:07:40 | 0:07:46 | |
nothing and neither has the European
Union. Theresa May is making a | 0:07:46 | 0:07:56 | |
speech... Lets sit here with open
ears. We've had so many speeches, so | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
many papers but we've not had any
alternative. At some stage somebody | 0:08:00 | 0:08:05 | |
is going to need to be grown-up
about this and face the facts. Will | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
we inevitably end up, if the UK
Government cannot produce an | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
acceptable alternative, that we will
end up with the option C which is | 0:08:14 | 0:08:24 | |
this common regulatory area for
Northern Ireland in the future. The | 0:08:24 | 0:08:27 | |
Unionists don't like it but you'd
think that is what will happen? What | 0:08:27 | 0:08:30 | |
has happened is that in order to get
through Christmas, Theresa May | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
signed a piece of paper, and on that
she said no hard border. She put | 0:08:35 | 0:08:42 | |
forward a number of alternatives.
Two of them were extremely foggy, | 0:08:42 | 0:08:47 | |
she hasn't fleshed them out with any
detail, and the third one is that | 0:08:47 | 0:08:51 | |
eventually we stay in the EU in all
but words, we stay in the single | 0:08:51 | 0:08:56 | |
market. All of the UK, not just
Northern Ireland, all of the UK | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
stays in the single market and a
customs union. They don't want that, | 0:09:00 | 0:09:06 | |
and I understand why they don't want
that, but they have to compromise. | 0:09:06 | 0:09:11 | |
We are saying we must leave the EU
because that's what the referendum | 0:09:11 | 0:09:15 | |
bill that, despite what the people
of Northern Ireland wanted which was | 0:09:15 | 0:09:19 | |
to stay, but nevertheless we have to
find a way forward that keeps our | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
country unified. That means keeping
Northern Ireland as part of the UK, | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
that means pulling together the 48%
and the 52%. Which means we leave | 0:09:26 | 0:09:31 | |
the EU but we don't have to go very
far, which means we can keep a soft | 0:09:31 | 0:09:36 | |
border. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:46 | |
We had a bit of a technical problem
in that interview with Emily | 0:09:51 | 0:09:56 | |
Thornberry. That was the Shadow
Foreign Secretary talking to meet at | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
her office in Westminster yesterday
afternoon. Not surprisingly, Nigel | 0:10:00 | 0:10:07 | |
Dodds sees things differently. He
said he was amazed the EU could | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
think the EU proposals would ever be
acceptable to his party. When I met | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
up with him yesterday I suggested to
him that the EU proposals are only | 0:10:15 | 0:10:21 | |
the legal version of what was
previously agreed to buy Theresa May | 0:10:21 | 0:10:25 | |
in Brussels last December. They are
not because they leave out the | 0:10:25 | 0:10:29 | |
Article 50 stuff about guaranteeing
unfettered access for Northern | 0:10:29 | 0:10:35 | |
Ireland. It takes the whole
interpretation of regulatory | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
alignment much further across
greater areas than was imagined, and | 0:10:39 | 0:10:45 | |
it doesn't deal in any regard with
options a and B because it is purely | 0:10:45 | 0:10:50 | |
with the C. It doesn't reflect what
was agreed in December, and the | 0:10:50 | 0:10:55 | |
Prime Minister made that very clear
in her excellent remarks at Prime | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
Minister's Questions in which she
said no British Prime Minister could | 0:10:58 | 0:11:02 | |
possibly accept such a paper.
Options A and B are the | 0:11:02 | 0:11:08 | |
responsibility of the UK Government
and Michel Barnier said today we are | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
happy to see them, but there doesn't
seem to be any great urgency to | 0:11:12 | 0:11:16 | |
produce any. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:20 | |
They would be better waiting | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
They would be better waiting until
Friday, it is their decision to go | 0:11:22 | 0:11:24 | |
ahead today and they are the ones
the EU has structured the | 0:11:24 | 0:11:29 | |
negotiations to be getting to the
progress report and having that the | 0:11:29 | 0:11:33 | |
month it was elation on transition
arrangements and then trade talks | 0:11:33 | 0:11:38 | |
and in our view and the British
government's you is what should have | 0:11:38 | 0:11:42 | |
happened as everything was on the
table from the first day, start | 0:11:42 | 0:11:46 | |
negotiating the most important part,
the trade deal, option A, so it is | 0:11:46 | 0:11:51 | |
rich for the EU to criticise people
when they are the ones who insisted | 0:11:51 | 0:11:56 | |
on this structure. When it comes to
Friday's much anticipated speech by | 0:11:56 | 0:12:02 | |
the Prime Minister, do you think she
will clear up a lot of the confusion | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
that seems to be around today? She
will set out the UK's negotiating | 0:12:05 | 0:12:12 | |
position in terms of the overall
trade deal, she will reiterate the | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
commitment to the agreement in
December and she will also reiterate | 0:12:16 | 0:12:20 | |
what she said in terms of the
Commons at Prime Minister 's | 0:12:20 | 0:12:26 | |
questions, which is that no British
prime ministers could possibly | 0:12:26 | 0:12:30 | |
accede to anything that would break
up the Common Market and the UK, the | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
single market, no customs border
down the Irish Sea. And no British | 0:12:34 | 0:12:39 | |
Prime Minister would accede to the
EU draft text, which would break up | 0:12:39 | 0:12:47 | |
the UK constitutionally. I think
that will be very welcome. Michel | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
Barnier has made it clear he has no
intention of that, he does not want | 0:12:51 | 0:12:55 | |
to get involved in the internal
politics of the UK anti-respects | 0:12:55 | 0:12:59 | |
because additional integrity of the
UK. He said that very clearly today | 0:12:59 | 0:13:03 | |
without any ambiguity. I welcome
what he says but as we have always | 0:13:03 | 0:13:09 | |
proved, the proof is in the text and
especially the legal text and what | 0:13:09 | 0:13:14 | |
that spells out, it does not refer
at all to the important links | 0:13:14 | 0:13:18 | |
between Northern Ireland and the UK,
it does not reflect that and it | 0:13:18 | 0:13:21 | |
paints a scenario whereby there
would be this common regulatory | 0:13:21 | 0:13:26 | |
space weather Union of which
Northern Ireland would be part, | 0:13:26 | 0:13:29 | |
regardless of the rest of the UK,
and that would politically cut us | 0:13:29 | 0:13:34 | |
from the rest of the UK, which as
Theresa May has said, no British | 0:13:34 | 0:13:40 | |
prime ministers will accept. Would
it really do that? Of course, what | 0:13:40 | 0:13:46 | |
we would have ears, 75% of our sales
out of Northern Ireland goes to the | 0:13:46 | 0:13:50 | |
UK market or the rest of the world,
what they would be doing is creating | 0:13:50 | 0:13:55 | |
this incredible regulatory barrier,
customs barrier, between Northern | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
Ireland and the rest of the UK,
where most of the sales go. It would | 0:13:58 | 0:14:05 | |
be economic catastrophe for
businesses, communities in Northern | 0:14:05 | 0:14:07 | |
Ireland, deeply damaging to everyone
and that is one reason why I believe | 0:14:07 | 0:14:12 | |
puzzled at the attitude of the Irish
government because it is not in | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
their interests to create barriers
between Ireland and Great Britain | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
because most of their trade goes
into Great Britain yet they pursue | 0:14:19 | 0:14:23 | |
this policy. It seems for purely
political reasons. When all of us | 0:14:23 | 0:14:27 | |
and certainly they should be
concentrating on trying to get a | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
trade deal which would ensure that
business continues between Northern | 0:14:30 | 0:14:36 | |
Ireland, the Irish Republic and the
rest of the EU. That is where the | 0:14:36 | 0:14:40 | |
focus should be. Michel Barnier said
that if Northern Ireland ends up as | 0:14:40 | 0:14:45 | |
a common regulatory area, it would
not be a hard border, that would | 0:14:45 | 0:14:50 | |
exist between Northern Ireland and
the rest of the UK. It would be a | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
series of checks at ports and
airports, he said that it's a lot | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
easier than to police it, at 310
mile long land border. A hard border | 0:14:57 | 0:15:04 | |
between Northern Ireland and the
republic. They are not the same. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
Even he is admitting that there
would be barriers and the EU | 0:15:07 | 0:15:12 | |
position and others who say they do
not want any hard border is there | 0:15:12 | 0:15:16 | |
can be no infrastructure along the
border and we agree with that. We | 0:15:16 | 0:15:20 | |
think it can be done without any of
that. As a government put forward in | 0:15:20 | 0:15:24 | |
the August paper. What concerns us
is this approach by the EU and | 0:15:24 | 0:15:30 | |
others who support it, it falls
under the glaring weight of its own | 0:15:30 | 0:15:37 | |
inconsistencies. They told us they
don't want a border between Northern | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
Ireland and the Irish Republic but
this would have the effect of | 0:15:39 | 0:15:43 | |
creating, even with regulatory
checks, infrastructure and barriers, | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
never mind the regulatory changes
which would be a barrier to trade. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:51 | |
And people are using the Belfast
agreement, the need to have a | 0:15:51 | 0:15:57 | |
frictionless border, even the piece,
and I have said this in the Commons, | 0:15:57 | 0:16:02 | |
using this in quite disgraceful and
reckless way in to project their own | 0:16:02 | 0:16:07 | |
version of Brexit or even to thwart
Brexit. Who is going to go back to | 0:16:07 | 0:16:12 | |
violence? Who is suggesting there
should be a hard border? Nobody. Who | 0:16:12 | 0:16:16 | |
is suggesting that we should abandon
good cross-border trade? Nobody. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:23 | |
Some of the wilder claims made by
some people need to be reined in and | 0:16:23 | 0:16:27 | |
we should get on with the practical
job of negotiating an overall trade | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
deal between the UK and the rest of
the EU. Let us look at what the | 0:16:30 | 0:16:36 | |
Prime Minister said, you welcomed
the commitments. No hard border | 0:16:36 | 0:16:40 | |
between Northern Ireland and the
Republic. No hard border between | 0:16:40 | 0:16:42 | |
Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
No Customs Union between the UK and | 0:16:42 | 0:16:48 | |
EU you welcome that. Those three
things cannot all be true, you | 0:16:48 | 0:16:52 | |
cannot deliver on those three
commitments at the same time. They | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
are contradictory. They are not. If
you were the government paper, and | 0:16:55 | 0:17:01 | |
lots of people are talking about the
border, I will not include you, but | 0:17:01 | 0:17:05 | |
a lot of people on this side of the
water talk about this and they have | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
never been to Northern Ireland, they
never read the paper in August and | 0:17:09 | 0:17:13 | |
they have not talked, as I have, in
Stockholm, to the person who drafted | 0:17:13 | 0:17:18 | |
the report for the parliament,
saying this can be done. You can | 0:17:18 | 0:17:24 | |
have frictionless trade north and
south, frictionless trade East and | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
West, and you can have a customs
arrangement, which is what the Prime | 0:17:27 | 0:17:34 | |
Minister has talked about, our
partnership without being part of | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
the Customs Union. The trouble with
being part of the Customs Union is | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
you end up having to accept whatever
deals the EU does in its interests | 0:17:40 | 0:17:45 | |
without any say as the UK and
whether it is in your interests or | 0:17:45 | 0:17:49 | |
not. It would be a mad situation. We
need to be free to negotiate our own | 0:17:49 | 0:17:54 | |
arrangements that sensible
convergence in areas where it makes | 0:17:54 | 0:18:00 | |
sense. What do you say to those
representatives of the agriculture | 0:18:00 | 0:18:04 | |
and food sector and business
sectors, North and south and here in | 0:18:04 | 0:18:09 | |
Great Britain as well, who have
serious reservations about the UK | 0:18:09 | 0:18:14 | |
and Northern Ireland leaving the
Customs Union and the single market? | 0:18:14 | 0:18:19 | |
Most people in the farming community
voted for Brexit and still hold to | 0:18:19 | 0:18:23 | |
that position. There are sectors of
agriculture who have told us that | 0:18:23 | 0:18:27 | |
actually, if we ended up with a hard
Brexit, nobody wants that, but they | 0:18:27 | 0:18:32 | |
would replace goods coming in at the
moment so they would probably | 0:18:32 | 0:18:36 | |
thrive. Other sectors could see
damage done and we have been | 0:18:36 | 0:18:41 | |
speaking to Michael Gove about
managing that but nobody wants to | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
get to a hard Brexit. One final
question about the talks. To what | 0:18:45 | 0:18:50 | |
extent do you think you are
optimistic that the Stormont talks | 0:18:50 | 0:18:55 | |
process can be up and running again
any time soon? In the short-term we | 0:18:55 | 0:19:01 | |
are badly in need of some
decision-making in Northern Ireland, | 0:19:01 | 0:19:05 | |
you hear that from the civil
service, budgets need to be set and | 0:19:05 | 0:19:08 | |
decisions taken in the interests of
everybody. Whoever. That needs to | 0:19:08 | 0:19:13 | |
happen. Without prejudice to train
to get devolution back and a role | 0:19:13 | 0:19:18 | |
for the Assembly if necessary for
that local input. Do I see | 0:19:18 | 0:19:25 | |
devolution in the short-term? No.
There is a lot of this -- mistrust | 0:19:25 | 0:19:29 | |
and bad blood. A lot of things that
Sinn Fein have done which has | 0:19:29 | 0:19:34 | |
concerned and angered people in the
unionist community. And I think | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
there isn't a balanced package on
offer so I think we do need to get | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
back to devolution but if you ask me
will it happen in the short term, I | 0:19:42 | 0:19:47 | |
don't think it is but that is
without prejudice to making it | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
happen in the medium and long term.
The website that published the draft | 0:19:50 | 0:19:56 | |
text and in a subsequent article in
question was posed... The first | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
opportunity to ask this question...
Did Arlene Foster personally hand a | 0:20:00 | 0:20:06 | |
hard copy of that 13 page iteration
of the draft agreement to Michelle | 0:20:06 | 0:20:11 | |
O'Neill at 6:30pm on Friday the 9th
of February? That is news to me. I | 0:20:11 | 0:20:19 | |
will not get into answering
questions of that nature but I think | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
that is news to me. I have no
knowledge of that. That has been in | 0:20:22 | 0:20:27 | |
the public domain for some time. I
don't think that is right. Might | 0:20:27 | 0:20:33 | |
that we the case? We can speculate.
You are getting into the territory | 0:20:33 | 0:20:39 | |
of speculation upon speculation. I
am not going to get into that. Our | 0:20:39 | 0:20:43 | |
party has acted perfectly correctly
in how it has handled all of this | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
and we have taken a decision. Which
is that in the meantime, until we | 0:20:48 | 0:20:54 | |
get devolution running on a fair
way, decisions have to be taken at | 0:20:54 | 0:20:58 | |
Westminster and we need to do the
budget and get on and have | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
government decisions made. That is
what everybody needs. You don't know | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
if she handed the document? If she
did... If I had any knowledge... I | 0:21:06 | 0:21:14 | |
would be highly surprised, that is
speculation upon speculation, like | 0:21:14 | 0:21:18 | |
me speculating on what you did on
Tuesday. I have no knowledge. I | 0:21:18 | 0:21:26 | |
cannot... I cannot comment. If she
did hand that document over, it | 0:21:26 | 0:21:33 | |
would suggest she had some ownership
of it and that document clearly | 0:21:33 | 0:21:39 | |
suggests signing at Irish Language
Act... Can we stop being silly about | 0:21:39 | 0:21:44 | |
all of this. Stop this nonsense. The
reality is... Arlene Foster and | 0:21:44 | 0:21:52 | |
nobody in the DUP put forward for
any kind of agreement the Irish | 0:21:52 | 0:21:58 | |
language suggestions in any text
because it was not agreed by her, by | 0:21:58 | 0:22:03 | |
the party or anything else. That is
the bottom line. | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
Nigel Dodds talking to me
at Westminster yesterday. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:08 | |
Now, while some politicians have
been quick to knock back any | 0:22:08 | 0:22:11 | |
prospect of a post-Brexit border
in the Irish Sea, | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
what about the argument
for building a bridge across it? | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
The Scottish Government has told
this programme it's ready to begin | 0:22:16 | 0:22:18 | |
discussions with officials here,
and in Dublin, about the possibility | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
of making it happen. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
The DUP and the SNP say the idea
of a fixed link should be explored - | 0:22:23 | 0:22:27 | |
but not everyone's convinced,
as Stephen Walker's | 0:22:27 | 0:22:28 | |
been finding out. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:35 | |
It is a short ferry crossing
to Scotland and if there | 0:22:41 | 0:22:45 | |
was a bridge it would be
an even shorter drive. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
The suggestion of a link
between Northern Ireland | 0:22:49 | 0:22:52 | |
and the West of Scotland is not new,
but the idea is now gaining interest | 0:22:52 | 0:22:56 | |
on both sides of the water. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
In a post-Brexit world,
would it help to bring economies | 0:22:58 | 0:23:02 | |
together and could it boost
trade and tourism? | 0:23:02 | 0:23:05 | |
Or is this an expensive folly
we simply cannot afford? | 0:23:05 | 0:23:10 | |
The idea of connecting
with our Scottish neighbours has | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
been around for over 130 years. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:17 | |
These plans from the 1800s
show tunnels stretching | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
from Counties Down and Antrim
to the West of Scotland. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
The idea for a bridge
or a tunnel was contained | 0:23:23 | 0:23:27 | |
in the 2015 DUP manifesto. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:30 | |
So where could a bridge be built? | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
The shortest crossing
point is 12 miles from | 0:23:33 | 0:23:36 | |
the coast of County Antrim. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
The best route seems to be
from the Mull of Kintyre | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
to the Antrim coast. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:43 | |
The difficulty with that in the past
has been getting from the Mull | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
of Kintyre to the Glasgow central
belt and to the central | 0:23:46 | 0:23:49 | |
belt of Scotland. | 0:23:49 | 0:23:51 | |
There are now achievable ways
of actually doing that. | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
So I think that the best route,
potentially as far as the simplest | 0:23:54 | 0:23:58 | |
connection and the least expensive
connection, would be from the Antrim | 0:23:58 | 0:24:01 | |
coast to the Mull of Kintyre. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:03 | |
A bridge stretching
from Larne to Portpatrick | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
is another possibility. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
And there is another suggestion that
would link Bangor to Portpatrick. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:12 | |
In Dublin recently,
Scotland's Brexit Minister said | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
the idea was worth exploring. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:18 | |
I think it's a great idea. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:19 | |
It would open up my
constituency, that's the route | 0:24:19 | 0:24:21 | |
I would like to see. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:23 | |
But there's a lot of talking
to be done about that. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:25 | |
But I think it would be important
that talking starts on that. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:28 | |
Recent coverage indicates that
that's something that should happen. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:31 | |
As the local MSP I would
definitely support that. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:33 | |
Others agree this idea
needs to be explored. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:38 | |
We have got the most expensive
stretch of water for ships | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
and ferries to cross and sometimes
it is disrupted by bad | 0:24:41 | 0:24:44 | |
weather, etcetera. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:46 | |
One of the suggestions we made
was if you are going to go | 0:24:46 | 0:24:49 | |
for blue sky thinking,
huge infrastructure projects, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
why not look at the 22 miles
between Northern Ireland | 0:24:52 | 0:24:56 | |
and Scotland and build a bridge
which would make travel less | 0:24:56 | 0:24:59 | |
expensive and probably more certain. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:00 | |
Sammy Wilson accepts that cost
could determine the feasibility. | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
To some, the construction fees
are too prohibitive. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:08 | |
Some people put a conservative
estimate at £20 billion. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
At a time when our local
infrastructure in Northern | 0:25:11 | 0:25:13 | |
Ireland is struggling. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:14 | |
We have flagship projects
where we are struggling to get | 0:25:14 | 0:25:17 | |
the capital money to build those
and also our roads | 0:25:17 | 0:25:19 | |
and maintenance budget. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:20 | |
We simply don't have the money
to retain what we already have. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:23 | |
So to build a bridge
at this cost would be seen | 0:25:23 | 0:25:26 | |
as a vanity project by some. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:28 | |
So is this a price we
simply can't afford? | 0:25:28 | 0:25:35 | |
But the question is, will it pay
for itself over years now? | 0:25:35 | 0:25:37 | |
To have a capital investment
like that we are going | 0:25:37 | 0:25:40 | |
to create more jobs. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:41 | |
Northern Ireland could be
doing with more jobs. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
We could upskill our workforce more
around the construction piece | 0:25:43 | 0:25:45 | |
so it is a good investment for both
Northern Ireland and Scotland. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:49 | |
If a bridge was proposed a proper
cost benefit analysis | 0:25:49 | 0:25:51 | |
would have to be carried out. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
Something that the Scottish
Government have recognised. | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
But is there enough trade to justify
such a large investment? | 0:26:26 | 0:26:33 | |
Currently there is about 400,000
lorries would transit | 0:26:33 | 0:26:35 | |
the North Channel to Cairnryan
from Northern Ireland annually. | 0:26:35 | 0:26:37 | |
What proportion of that vehicle
traffic would use the bridge? | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
And obviously toll fees have
been included as well. | 0:26:40 | 0:26:42 | |
So would it be financially
viable to make the switch | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
from ferry to bridge? | 0:26:45 | 0:26:46 | |
To some, the bridge is more
than simply a structure. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:49 | |
The fact that you can go from Dublin
to Belfast to Glasgow to Edinburgh | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
in a number of hours and you can
jump on a train as well | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
if you have a bridge,
a suitable bridge, then | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
it is fantastic from
an infrastructure point of view | 0:26:59 | 0:27:01 | |
and also for the connectivity. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:03 | |
Building a bridge would require
consultation with local communities | 0:27:03 | 0:27:06 | |
and would raise fundamental
questions of where and how it | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
could be constructed. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:11 | |
Questions that others
across the globe have had to answer. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:15 | |
In China the world's longest sea
bridge has just been completed. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:20 | |
They built their sea bridge,
which is 34 miles long, | 0:27:20 | 0:27:22 | |
in six years from start to finish. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:25 | |
I would hope that we would certainly
have the capability and the talent, | 0:27:25 | 0:27:29 | |
the engineering and architectural
talent in both countries to do it. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:32 | |
I would certainly hope
that we would have a building built, | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
a bridge built by 2025
would certainly be within | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
the realms of possibility. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
So a bridge for 2025
would be my catchphrase for this. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
Vanity project or wise investment? | 0:27:43 | 0:27:48 | |
A bridge divides opinion and raises
political and economic questions. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:51 | |
Just as the original plans did
nearly 150 years ago. | 0:27:51 | 0:27:59 | |
Stephen Walker reporting. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:01 | |
Let's hear from tonight's
commentators - Sam McBride | 0:28:01 | 0:28:03 | |
from The News Letter
and Allison Morris | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
from The Irish News. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:09 | |
They've been joined by our own
political editor Mark Devonport. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:14 | |
Let's go back to Brexit which is
where we started. We heard from | 0:28:14 | 0:28:19 | |
Emily Thornberry and Nigel Dodds,
very different views on the draft | 0:28:19 | 0:28:21 | |
treaty. Now just to move things on
we've got a sense of what Theresa | 0:28:21 | 0:28:26 | |
May is going to say in her Mansion
house speech tomorrow, where does | 0:28:26 | 0:28:31 | |
that leave us? Downing Street has
briefed some broad principles that | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
Theresa May will set out in this
speech. It gives us a sense of the | 0:28:34 | 0:28:41 | |
broad principles she will look
towards. She says any kind of plan | 0:28:41 | 0:28:46 | |
in the future must respect the
result of the referendum. That's a | 0:28:46 | 0:28:50 | |
reason why the government has ruled
out staying in the customs union and | 0:28:50 | 0:28:54 | |
the single market. They say it must
be an enduring agreement, but it | 0:28:54 | 0:28:59 | |
must protect jobs and security.
Lastly, they talk about it bringing | 0:28:59 | 0:29:05 | |
the country back together, which is
obviously in general terms trying to | 0:29:05 | 0:29:10 | |
bring remain and leave together
which is still a bit of a fond hope | 0:29:10 | 0:29:14 | |
at the moment. She also talks about
representing all of the UK in this. | 0:29:14 | 0:29:20 | |
Very broad brush staff and not the
kind of granular detail that we got | 0:29:20 | 0:29:25 | |
from the EU earlier in the week in
relation to their fallback option. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:30 | |
We heard Donald Tusk the president
of the European Council met Theresa | 0:29:30 | 0:29:33 | |
May today and said if you don't like
what's on the table at the moment | 0:29:33 | 0:29:37 | |
it's time to come up with a better
idea. You've looked at the briefing | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
as well, is the better idea in there
so far as you can see? There's | 0:29:40 | 0:29:46 | |
nothing in this, it is a lot of
waffle about bringing people | 0:29:46 | 0:29:51 | |
together, getting an open trade deal
is possible. You can't leave the | 0:29:51 | 0:29:56 | |
customs union and then have a free
trade deal and a frictionless | 0:29:56 | 0:30:00 | |
border. There's no mention of
Northern Ireland. I knows these were | 0:30:00 | 0:30:07 | |
only briefing notes but there's no
mention of the border at all. At | 0:30:07 | 0:30:11 | |
this point we had them did missing
what was put forward as a suggestion | 0:30:11 | 0:30:16 | |
by the agreed European Union -- we
heard them dismissing but was put | 0:30:16 | 0:30:23 | |
forward. Nigel Dodds very robust in
his defence of the view that it is | 0:30:23 | 0:30:27 | |
possible to square the circle,
leaving the customs union and not | 0:30:27 | 0:30:31 | |
having a hard border, east-west or
north-south. He does say that is | 0:30:31 | 0:30:39 | |
possible and that is consistent with
a party that argued for Brexit and | 0:30:39 | 0:30:43 | |
for a fairly robust Brexit, making a
clean break and striking trade deals | 0:30:43 | 0:30:48 | |
and all of that sort of rhetoric
from the ardent Brexiteers. One of | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
the interesting thing is the EU did
is that it could either push the DUP | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
in one of two directions. It could
push it towards trying to keep the | 0:30:57 | 0:31:00 | |
whole UK in the customs union and
watered-down Brexit, it doesn't seem | 0:31:00 | 0:31:05 | |
to be when Nigel Dodds is going with
this. Or it could push them in a | 0:31:05 | 0:31:12 | |
very different direction, where they
say no deal is better for unionism | 0:31:12 | 0:31:21 | |
even if economically it's
problematic. That isn't something | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
the DUP is saying at this point but
if we get to the final stage of this | 0:31:24 | 0:31:28 | |
and Theresa May can't come up with
something more palatable, it's a big | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
choice for Arlene Foster and Nigel
Dodds. Let's remind ourselves, the | 0:31:32 | 0:31:38 | |
Westminster arithmetic is critical
in this. The DUP has a clear | 0:31:38 | 0:31:42 | |
position. Nidal -- Nigel Dodds came
out firmly in support of what | 0:31:42 | 0:31:49 | |
Theresa May said yesterday. There
are people who will say at the end | 0:31:49 | 0:31:54 | |
of the day the DUP voice is
significant because the DUP tail is | 0:31:54 | 0:31:58 | |
wagging the conservative dog.
Theresa May is in hock to Arlene | 0:31:58 | 0:32:02 | |
Foster and Nigel Dodds. Theresa May
obviously needs DUP votes to stay in | 0:32:02 | 0:32:07 | |
power but she is subject to force is
coming in different directions. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
She's got the DUP insistent and hard
Brexiteers insistent that she can't | 0:32:10 | 0:32:16 | |
but on the customs union. But she
has the moderate remain weighing in | 0:32:16 | 0:32:23 | |
the Tory party joining together
potentially with Labour in backing | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
an amendment that would push some
kind of customs union. That leaves | 0:32:27 | 0:32:32 | |
her in a difficult position. One of
the particular conundrum is that | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
faces her if she sees the solution
being the negotiation of this | 0:32:36 | 0:32:40 | |
all-encompassing trade agreement
which is effectively going to make | 0:32:40 | 0:32:43 | |
the problems of the border go away.
The EU went discussed that until she | 0:32:43 | 0:32:48 | |
is signed up to the terms of a
transition plan. Part of the terms | 0:32:48 | 0:32:53 | |
put on the table is what we've seen
which is totally unacceptable to the | 0:32:53 | 0:32:58 | |
DUP. How does she get to this heaven
of the great trade agreement that | 0:32:58 | 0:33:03 | |
will make everything go away,
without signing up to something that | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
is unpalatable and may be impossible
for her supporters? What about the | 0:33:06 | 0:33:14 | |
other issue I talked to Nigel Dodds
about, the possibility of getting | 0:33:14 | 0:33:18 | |
Stormont talks back up and running.
He said Mr stand-by blood makes it | 0:33:18 | 0:33:22 | |
unlikely in the short-term. I asked
the question about whether or not | 0:33:22 | 0:33:26 | |
Foster might have handed a hard copy
of the leaked document to Michelle | 0:33:26 | 0:33:33 | |
O'Neill a couple of Fridays ago. It
has followed the pattern we've seen | 0:33:33 | 0:33:37 | |
from senior DUP members in the last
two weeks since news of this draft | 0:33:37 | 0:33:42 | |
leaked. He was comfortable speaking
about Brexit and then you saw the | 0:33:42 | 0:33:45 | |
body language change and he became
defensive when you mentioned the | 0:33:45 | 0:33:50 | |
draft deal. Whether he didn't know,
whether he wasn't sure, and that | 0:33:50 | 0:33:53 | |
would show what most people have
speculated which is that there was a | 0:33:53 | 0:33:59 | |
negotiation within the DUP. He was
an important part of that | 0:33:59 | 0:34:05 | |
negotiating team. We know that he
said on this programme that he had | 0:34:05 | 0:34:14 | |
constructed the draft deal. Nigel
Dodds was rattled by that. If that | 0:34:14 | 0:34:18 | |
was the case it blows out of the
water this message on the Irish | 0:34:18 | 0:34:26 | |
language act. He was deeply
unconvincing and evasive. He had an | 0:34:26 | 0:34:31 | |
opportunity to say this is simply
nonsense, it didn't happen. It's | 0:34:31 | 0:34:37 | |
quite telling. He said I'm not aware
of it, he didn't say it didn't | 0:34:37 | 0:34:41 | |
happen. You caught that bit at the
end as well, does it move that | 0:34:41 | 0:34:47 | |
debate on as to whether or not the
DUP was preparing to do a deal on | 0:34:47 | 0:34:52 | |
the Irish language and now says it
isn't? The DUP commentary around | 0:34:52 | 0:34:58 | |
this has been rather unconvincing
and Nigel Dodds' performance in | 0:34:58 | 0:35:02 | |
relation to those questions was a
bit unconvincing in terms of the | 0:35:02 | 0:35:06 | |
body language. It should also be
seen in the context of publishing | 0:35:06 | 0:35:11 | |
the header of an e-mail to light
which contained the subject line | 0:35:11 | 0:35:16 | |
draft agreement text. It was an
e-mail from Simon Hamilton. One | 0:35:16 | 0:35:23 | |
remembers the DUP was saying there
was no such thing as a draft | 0:35:23 | 0:35:27 | |
agreement. There seem to be e-mails
headed "Draft agreement text" which | 0:35:27 | 0:35:33 | |
again causes you to ask questions
about what was going on. No sign of | 0:35:33 | 0:35:38 | |
devolution any time soon? It doesn't
appear Nigel Dodds is expecting it | 0:35:38 | 0:35:43 | |
any time soon. Very hard for them to
get their act together I would have | 0:35:43 | 0:35:47 | |
thought in the coming months. Thank
you. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
That's it from The View
for this week. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:52 | |
Join me for Sunday Politics
at 11:35am here on BBC One. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
But before we go, we thought we'd
share this little insight from one | 0:35:55 | 0:35:58 | |
of our MPs that popped up
on social media today. | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
It just...reminded us of someone. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
Goodnight! | 0:36:02 | 0:36:04 | |
Hello, welcome to room 65 in the
upper committee corridor of | 0:36:04 | 0:36:07 | |
Parliament. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:15 | |
THE OFFICE THEME MUSIC. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:43 |