Browse content similar to 22/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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On The View tonight, 38 years since the Birmingham pub bombings, the | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
families say they are all closer to finding out who was responsible. We | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
hear from the sister of one of the victims who has called for a public | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
inquiry. Closer to home, is this the best way to deal with the past? | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
Also on the programme... I am on the north Antrim coast to | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
look at the idea of this becoming a national park. | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
We will have Environment Minister Alex Attwood in the studio. And | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
with their views on those stories and headlines, our guests. | :00:56. | :01:06. | |
:01:06. | :01:06. | ||
The can also follow the programme 21 people died in the Birmingham | :01:06. | :01:14. | |
pub bombings in 1974. Six men were jailed, but their convictions were | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
quashed in 1981. Last week, a candle at the girl was held in the | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
city. Julie Hamilton's sister, Maxine, was killed in the attacks. | :01:26. | :01:33. | |
During has indeed studio is Ian Paisley Jnr and victims campaigner, | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
John White. You had your candlelit vigil in | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
Birmingham last night, part of your campaign to establish a public | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
inquiry as -- into what happened. Was it a successful occasion? | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
was a beautiful occasion. The Dean of Birmingham provided a service | :01:52. | :02:00. | |
that was absolutely beautiful. We had a range of supporters who | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
travelled from all over the UK to come and join us to remember a 21 | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
people who were taken away from one's fatigue eight years ago. | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
What, precisely, are you campaigning for? | :02:14. | :02:24. | |
:02:24. | :02:24. | ||
We are campaigning for justice for 21 innocent people. It has been | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
fatigued years, and the perpetrators are still at liberty. | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
What sort of a society do we live and where we're supposed to be | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
democratic but murderers who have killed 21 people are still free to | :02:39. | :02:49. | |
:02:49. | :02:49. | ||
walk the streets. -- it has been 38 years. It appears that the quality | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
of the scales of justice is not balanced. You would like to see a | :02:53. | :03:02. | |
public inquiry? Yes, we have written to a wide | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
variety of MPs in the UK, and I must say, the Northern Ireland | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
Assembly members have been absolutely superb, not wishing to | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
sound sycophantic about this. But Mr Ian Paisley, who I believe is | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
there, I would like to publicly thanked him and many of his members | :03:21. | :03:30. | |
for their support. Only those who have suffered the loss of a loved | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
one like we have can possibly understand. There are many in | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
Northern Ireland, I can appreciate, who will know what I mean what I | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
say you never get over that grief, you never get over that loss. We | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
miss Maxene every single day. We love our lives, because that is | :03:49. | :03:59. | |
:03:59. | :03:59. | ||
what she would have wanted, but we cannot sit back now and not have | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
the perpetrators brought to justice. Very briefly, the Prime Minister | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
has said it there will be no more public inquiries on the scale of | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
the Bloody Sunday inquiry, which cost �200 million. On the other | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
hand, West Midlands police in July this year committed themselves to | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
be examining the files to see if they can indeed identify the people | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
responsible to -- for what happened 38 years ago. Isn't that | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
significant progress? It is, but that only came about, in | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
my personal opinion, from the power base of our supporters, who were | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
writing to their MPs, who wear them writing to the Home Secretary, | :04:39. | :04:47. | |
Theresa May, who then was writing back saying it was the place of the | :04:47. | :04:53. | |
chief constable. He has yet to respond to any of the letters I | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
have sent to him. Unfortunately, the last letter I sent to him, he | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
forward and that to can he Bell, the head of the counter-terrorism | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
unit. -- he said that on to can he Bell. | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
A you have heard what Julie has to say, Ian Paisley, you are backing a | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
campaign. Are you calling for a public inquiry? | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
Julie has had almost 40 years of suffering, and her family, and the | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
relatives of the 21, have had 40 years of terrible anguish, and they | :05:24. | :05:31. | |
note -- now need support. We spent �37 million per year on policing | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
the past through historical increase, through inquests, through | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
the police money we put into all that. We have actually found a way | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
of trying to address this without war public increase. The Troubles | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
extended themselves to the best of the UK, and Julie and her family | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
and those relatives have been left with nothing, so they need that | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
mechanism. It means the Prime Minister has to revisit his | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
decision and say a public inquiry is ahead or there is another | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
mechanism. Let embrace our campaign and if the Historical Enquiries | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
Team can do something to help, let them help. Is it possible the | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
mechanism may be the extension of the remit of these historical | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
enquiries Fiji as we know, they are limited -- the Historical Enquiries | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
Team. As we know, they are limited to Northop -- to Northern Ireland. | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
I don't care about the mechanics that are used and the niceties. The | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
relatives want justice and truth, and as Julie said, the people who | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
murdered in cold blood her sister and the other relatives, they are | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
entitled to have justice. Therefore, let get on with it. But is that a | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
mechanism due would encourage -- encourage the powers that be to | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
examine? I think the Prime Minister should leave no stone unturned in | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
this campaign. We have already put some pressure on Keir Starmer, the | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
Director of Public Prosecutions. I intend to make a motion in front of | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
the national Parliament, and I intend to push the Prime Minister | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
and galvanise MPs to recognise they have a responsibility to get truth | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
and justice for these families. Good white, you are victims | :07:20. | :07:28. | |
campaigner and you lost your mother during the Troubles. -- Jude White. | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
Do you have a lot of sympathy with what we have heard from Julie | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
tonight? Absolutely, the troubled were not | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
complain -- confined to this part of the UK. When I think of | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
Birmingham, I think of two things. I think of one of the most | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
appalling of indiscriminate attacks on civilians. It was a disgrace. I | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
also think of the subsequent disgraceful treatment of six | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
innocent men who spent years in prison, alone and isolated, after | :08:00. | :08:09. | |
being brutalised. Once you think of an incident like Birmingham, it | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
manifests the complex nature of what we're trying to do here, | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
dealing with the past. I do not believe the Historical Enquiries | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
Team will get to the bottom of this particular incident for a number of | :08:21. | :08:31. | |
:08:31. | :08:32. | ||
reasons. But least, resources. Not least. And the time gap. As a | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
campaigner, I have every sympathy with Julie in her bereavement. | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
Would it be worth trying to see if the Historical Enquiries Team could | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
uncover information that may lead to the successful prosecution of | :08:45. | :08:52. | |
individuals who were responsible? suspect not. Hardly a week goes by | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
over here that one family will be going to the media complaining they | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
are very unhappy with what the Historical Enquiries Team have done. | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
The other side of the coin is, I know some people who will be very | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
complimentary of what the Historical Enquiries Team have done, | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
but it is a piecemeal approach. There needs to be an overarching | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
process? Some kind of truth and reconciliation commission? | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
Absolutely. The problem extends to Birmingham, the South of Ireland, | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
also to Europe where there were many incidents, as well. We need a | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
mechanism to deal with the past. In short, we need people to come and | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
tell their story and tell the truth, and if appropriate apologise. If | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
the victims feel it is appropriate, they can accept that apology. | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
However, the Prix recruit -- prerequisite to all of us, nobody | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
is going to do anything unless it is done for them. | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
You have had people calling for this kind of umbrella Commission in | :09:50. | :09:58. | |
the past. Isn't it the case that unless everybody says that together, | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
the truth will only cover at best be partial. | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
Nor Mac. Two issues arise here. Many people both on the mainland | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
and here in Northern Ireland have pulled a brain -- blind over the | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
Birmingham case because of the Birmingham Six case. People have | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
said we do not want to visit that any more because of the | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
implications that has. People are now lifting that curtain up and | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
saying, we have to get justice for these 21, and if we do not get | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
justice we're irresponsible in our approach. Secondly, if the 8GT, or | :10:34. | :10:44. | |
:10:44. | :10:45. | ||
any other mechanism -- HET, if it uncovers any evidence at all it | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
must be made available to the Birmingham authorities. That is why | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
I have been speaking to the Director of Public Prosecutions and | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
the Prime Minister as saying, it is up to you to find a way for these | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
families. Do you think the day will ever come | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
where we see a truth and reconciliation commission, the | :11:03. | :11:10. | |
likes of which you would ideally As I get older, I become more | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
pessimistic about it. I, like many people, who were not added extras | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
in this conflict, will be dead. I see it as the only real way this | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
conflict can never be bought -- brought to an end. People need to | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
know what happened to their relatives will stop there are | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
people out there who can tell them but they must be brought into this | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
process, and there has to be consideration for a general amnesty. | :11:35. | :11:45. | |
Still to come... All eyes are on Fermanagh as the | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
GAA leaders head there, but will they bring more attention that we | :11:48. | :11:54. | |
may have bargained for? -- the G 8 leaders. | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
The Environment Minister has been asked to think again about his | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
proposal for a national park here. Alex Attwood thinks the development | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
would safeguard and market our natural beauty spots, but those | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
opposed fear it would create an unnecessary and expensive public | :12:09. | :12:19. | |
:12:19. | :12:26. | ||
body. Our correspondent has been to What a view. The Environment | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
Minister says this kind of area is ideal for a national park to | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
bolster jobs and bring more tourists. But those who live and | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
work on the land see it as a bad idea. The difficulty extends from | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
this being privately owned land, not like the majority of places | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
where national parks are publicly- owned land. It is a living | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
community and a thriving farming area, and we don't think it is | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
suitable. There are fears of more red tape and accidents on farms if | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
ramblers are allowed to wander. There are no farmers here I know | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
against tourism, we work closely with two is all the time and I | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
don't see them as a problem. The Minister is saying there will be | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
more tourism jobs. If the area was correctly marketed, we have no need | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
of this national park label. It is a view echoed by another | :13:19. | :13:29. | |
:13:29. | :13:39. | ||
All the businesses we have lobbied are in opposition. | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
Farmers are not the only ones concerned. The owners of this | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
caravan park are eager to promote tourism but say and national park | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
is not the answer. We do not need more regulation. And we need better | :13:53. | :14:00. | |
regulation and less red tape. We are all ready custodians of this | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
land. We are the best ones who know how to manage it. The ministry here | :14:08. | :14:18. | |
:14:18. | :14:26. | ||
is a conservation area -- the mean at St -- the main street. They say | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
the best thing about what help is to untangle bureaucracy around | :14:30. | :14:39. | |
planning. And reduce VAT. But what about the minister such argument | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
that Northern Ireland is the only region of the UK that does not have | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
a national park? It is the only part of the UK that does not have a | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
nuclear power station and we do not one of want one of those either. | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
The Fermanagh Lakelands are also a potential area for a national park, | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
but it seems there is a preference it to build on the current scheme. | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
Most people are totally opposed to a national park in Fermanagh. We | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
have a geo-park which works extremely well. It does not have | :15:15. | :15:25. | |
:15:25. | :15:26. | ||
the complications of a national park and the additional bureaucracy. | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
The view is that we will see investment in the communities. It | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
is not just about sustaining the environment, but sustaining their | :15:34. | :15:43. | |
community and the local economy. In Wales, there are three national | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
parks and there has been a big investment through GDP and over | :15:47. | :15:57. | |
:15:57. | :16:01. | ||
1000 jobs because of it. There has been other advice as well. We were | :16:01. | :16:08. | |
told by colleagues in the Brecon Beacons to bolster or are | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
opposition and stop it before it happens. There is a warning that | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
house prices will rise out of reach of locals. Where does that leave | :16:15. | :16:25. | |
:16:25. | :16:26. | ||
the minister's plan? He says he is taking stock. | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
Martina Purdy reporting. And the Environment Minister, Alex Attwood, | :16:29. | :16:36. | |
is with me now. So where are we now? We have 64,000 people out of | :16:36. | :16:44. | |
to work, we will have 84,000 people out of work soon, we have the next | :16:44. | :16:52. | |
of cuts at the European budget, what I have to do it as a Mr Izmit | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
turnover every stone to see if I can create jobs. -- what I have to | :16:58. | :17:06. | |
do as a minister. How are we going to find opportunities to grow work, | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
especially tourism, given that our natural heritage is or single | :17:11. | :17:21. | |
biggest asset? How does a national park create jobs? People still come | :17:21. | :17:28. | |
to the Fermanagh Lakelands, to the causeway. If you look at the | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
figures in the north of Ireland, we hope to grow to ism to make it a | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
would build empower under your industry. -- to make it a billion | :17:39. | :17:49. | |
:17:49. | :17:51. | ||
pound a year industry. Evidence suggests that if you have big | :17:51. | :18:00. | |
culture events, that brings people him. And at the label National | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
Park's... It is already bringing people them. People are going to | :18:05. | :18:12. | |
come for the UK Capital of Culture anyway. It is irrelevant. It is not | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
relevant. The evidence suggests that if you have a national park, | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
it defines it that area at him at special terms and people come and | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
bigger numbers, spend more and stay longer. 700 people at a public | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
meeting last night in Bala Castle are not at all happy about the idea | :18:34. | :18:44. | |
:18:44. | :18:44. | ||
of a national park being imposed I accept that there is a lot of | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
opposition, but I also think there is a lot of quiet support. I could | :18:49. | :18:59. | |
:18:59. | :19:02. | ||
give you many examples of letters from South Down supporting it. | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
we have heard that all the businesses in the north coast | :19:05. | :19:14. | |
against it. And others are in favour of it. There is a lot of | :19:14. | :19:21. | |
opposition, that is why I will have to look again, to see how I can | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
build support for the strategy that I want to develop that sees the | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
growth of tourism and other jobs opportunities. What does look again | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
actually mean your going to do? I can persuade people that we need | :19:36. | :19:44. | |
to have bigger and bolder strategy is to protect our heritage and good | :19:45. | :19:54. | |
:19:55. | :19:59. | ||
jobs -- and go jobs... Farmers say very clearly, if you create a | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
national park, they experience across the water is that house | :20:02. | :20:10. | |
prices go up, land prices go down and older, retired people move into | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
the area and jobs are not created. That is not the experience of | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
National parks in Britain. The experience in Britain is that it | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
does grow jobs. We heard of a farmer in the Brecon Beacons to | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
said they do not touch it with a bargepole. And there were many | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
farmers from other national parks areas in Britain who would give you | :20:33. | :20:42. | |
a different story. Are you going to go to public meetings and try to | :20:42. | :20:48. | |
persuade people? I would try to persuade people that in a situation | :20:48. | :20:55. | |
where we are facing 85,000 people out of work, the potential of cuts | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
in cap money so, the difficulties around recession, we must turn over | :21:01. | :21:10. | |
every stone to create jobs. It is quite clear that the opposition to | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
the concept of national parks is quite significant. But there is not | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
opposition to the concept of trying to grow rural jobs. That is my job, | :21:21. | :21:30. | |
to create the rural opportunities. When will you make the decision? | :21:30. | :21:40. | |
:21:40. | :21:44. | ||
have met people private -- private and I will not give up my argument | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
of tried to create more jobs in the rural committees. Just give us some | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
idea of a date, or will it be before Christmas? No, it will lobby | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
before Christmas. It will be my obligation to try to persuade | :21:59. | :22:07. | |
people off where we need to go in terms of growing our rural economy. | :22:07. | :22:15. | |
I will not be able to convince rural communities of the National | :22:15. | :22:23. | |
parks, but I will not give up on their attempt to grow jobs. Thank | :22:23. | :22:33. | |
:22:33. | :22:35. | ||
you. So Fermanagh is to host a gathering | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
of world leaders. Who would seriously have imagined that? But | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
next June, Obama, Merkel, Hollande, Cameron and other members of the G8 | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
group will be enjoying the pleasures of the Lakeland county. | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
Of course the annual G8 summit doesn't just attract the attention | :22:46. | :22:56. | |
:22:56. | :23:03. | ||
Canada, France, Germany, the USA, Italy, the G8 summit brings | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
together the leaders of some of the world's largest economies to | :23:08. | :23:15. | |
discuss global issues. It is an informal policy former added | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
nothing is binding on the membership. With the world's | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
leadership in one place, the world's media is also gathered. | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
Come June, of Fermanagh will be the focus of attention. Focus groups | :23:31. | :23:39. | |
will also be there. There have been serious clashes with police over | :23:39. | :23:49. | |
:23:49. | :23:50. | ||
the years. With the security is so tight, how much the world's | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
opinion-formers will see offer man at remains open to question. | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
Joining me now to discuss that and the rest of the week's political | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
news are commentators Fionnuala O Connor and Pete Shirlow. | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
Is it a good decision to have it in Fermanagh? Probably, but it will | :24:05. | :24:15. | |
:24:15. | :24:17. | ||
not have such a big impact. Do you think that this figure of �100 | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
million are generated for the local economy make sense? There will be | :24:23. | :24:32. | |
an upsurge of hotels and restaurants filled. Quite a lot of | :24:32. | :24:41. | |
people outside if you do not know that there is a place cold Northern | :24:41. | :24:48. | |
Ireland. -- called Northern Ireland. A vet bills a large could tell that | :24:48. | :24:56. | |
is in administration, that might be something. | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
Do think they Historical Enquiries Team it should extend its remit to | :24:59. | :25:07. | |
investigate some of these issues? To someone like Julie Hambleton, it | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
must be unfair and illogical that the acronym's the met are just | :25:13. | :25:23. | |
:25:23. | :25:25. | ||
extends to Northern Ireland. -- the HET's be met. But the historical | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
inquiries team is strapped for cash, so it is hard to see how we can | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
take on any more. Historical Enquiries Team, cold | :25:36. | :25:42. | |
case reviews, there are all kinds of options there. There are options, | :25:42. | :25:52. | |
:25:52. | :25:55. | ||
but no process. One of the things or the idea was that a lot of | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
people make is that courts is not a place to understand the context of | :26:00. | :26:07. | |
a conflict. Very much, you are a narrowing of the reason for a | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
conflict. Reconciliation is important and is probably a better | :26:13. | :26:23. | |
:26:23. | :26:26. | ||
way to go. What caught your eye this week? | :26:26. | :26:36. | |
:26:36. | :26:38. | ||
John McAllister calling for opposition at Stormont. A lot of | :26:38. | :26:46. | |
people asking questions. If we had more bite in the Assembly, it would | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
create a more and stronger sense that we have moved on from where we | :26:51. | :27:01. | |
:27:01. | :27:06. | ||
wear. John McAllister mention that. You moment of the week? Another sad | :27:06. | :27:15. | |
moment for Women. It was a Church of England's decision not to go | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
ahead with the women bishops. It looks as though it may well | :27:21. | :27:28. | |
splinter. A Guardian reporter who has followed it for a long time he | :27:28. | :27:35. | |
said he thought that the Church of England had committed suicide. One | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
woman priest said, having listened to the arguments, said it would be | :27:41. | :27:51. | |
:27:51. | :27:58. | ||
great if from the beginning men and women had shared authority roles. | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
Those who oppose women bishops have used the argument that Jesus did | :28:03. | :28:12. | |
not choose women disciples. What do you anticipate to be that | :28:12. | :28:18. | |
highlight of the coming week? as an enquiry. It has been looking | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
into the haul ethics of the media. It will bring up some interesting | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
questions about the freedom of the press. | :28:28. | :28:33. |