Browse content similar to 15/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight on the Wales report. Local authorities are trying to balance | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
the books. Budgets are being cut but should the the biggest count be in | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
the number of we'll shall councils? The clean-up continues after the | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
storms that batter the Welsh coastline but who will be picking up | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
the Bill and Sir Martin Evans says it is time to promote more interest | :00:27. | :00:33. | |
in science. Stay with us for the Wales Report. Good evening, welcome | :00:34. | :00:42. | |
back to the Wales Report, where we consider issues that affect the | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
people of Wales and question some of those making the decisions. On | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
tonight's programme: Welsh local authorities are facing record budget | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
cuts. They're counting the cash available for services such as | :00:52. | :00:53. | |
refuse collections, libraries, and leisure centres. They're trying to | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
balance their books but some possible answers are service cuts, | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
job losses and a possible rise in council tax. A commission appointed | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
by the Welsh Government on the future delivery of public services | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
is about to report its findings. And the question is now being asked | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
openly, instead of focusing on the budgets on 22 individual councils - | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
should we be talking about a radical reshaping of Welsh local government? | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
Helen Callaghan reports. Communities in uproar have become a | :01:19. | :01:29. | |
common sight, as people battle to save the services they cherish from | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
council cuts. But in an effort to minimise public | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
anger, and get them onside, local authorities have been reaching out | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
to people, through public consultation on an unprecedented | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
scale. Good evening. I'm the Chief Executive fted Council. The | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
residents of Monmouthshire have been invited here to this school to share | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
their views with Council bosses about proposed cuts to services, | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
deliver them differently and put up council tax. We are here today with | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
some proposals we want to discuss with you. However we still have a | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
big journey yet. They want the public to steer them in the right | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
direction. Are you prepared to go even higher on a council tax rise, | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
or do you want us to look for more cuts to balance the budget? But what | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
one person feels is important, another does not. And agreement is | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
extremely hard to achieve. We all should be helping each other, not | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
one certain section should be cut. There are going to be cuts, clearly. | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
What are some of the openingses? Are there any real options? But there is | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
one harsh truth that everyone in this room understands. Monmouthshire | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
county council has it make more than ?20 million worth of savings over | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
the next four years and the council is not alone. | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
Wales '22 local authorities are embroiled in a number crunching | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
nightmare. It's estimated that selectively they'll be faced with a | :03:03. | :03:12. | |
short fall of nearly 460 million and that 20,000 council jobs will go in | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
Wales in the next five years. I witnessed the gloomy realities | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
confronting councils first hand when we filmed councillors and officials | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
debating Monmouthshire's proposed spending plans We still have a gap | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
of over ?1 million. It is disappointing after so much | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
consultation and scrutiny and work by officers that we still have a | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
budget funding gap at this stage, only weeks before we have to | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
announce what our final budget proposals are. Monmouthshire and the | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
other local authorities across Wales have until early March to get their | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
spending plans for the next financial year signed off. The Wales | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
Report has been speaking to all of our councils to get a better idea of | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
which services are under threat. Across Wales, councils are | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
predicting a collective cut of ?30 million to social care budge etsds. | :04:05. | :04:13. | |
19 day centres may close. 35 public libraries could shut. . Some areas | :04:14. | :04:21. | |
may see a 2,000% increase to fees for leisure services. This is just a | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
small fraction of what we can expect to be hit. With some communities | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
also facing council tax hikes of up to 5%. | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
Local Government finances and those behind the book-balancing are under | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
the spotlight, like never before and council leaders, like Peter Fox are | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
feeling the strain. It really hurts when you have been | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
working hard for your communities and you have to try to deliver the | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
tough messages about how you are going to have to change things, | :04:49. | :04:52. | |
which may affect some people. I hope people understand that what we are | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
trying to do, is find the very best way forward in their interests. | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
But the impending assault on services, has sparked fierce attacks | :05:01. | :05:10. | |
against local councils. CHANTS OF SHAME ON YOU And there are calls for | :05:11. | :05:18. | |
a radical overhaul of how many there are. Last Government a commission | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
was set up to review the way devolved public services are run and | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
it suggest improvements. Its findings are due to be published | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
later this month and it is widely believed it'll recommend radically | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
reducing the number of local authorities we have here in Wales. | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
For now, most council bosses are keeping their thoughts on this | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
controversial issue private. But some did take to the Wales Report | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
anonymously. Three council leaders told me they support a reduction of | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
the 22 local authorities we now have. But four are against it. | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
The Welsh Government has ruled out reorganisation, before the #2 2016 | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
Assembly elections. Bsh 2016. But while any shake-up could be some | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
years away, there are calls for decisions to be made quickly. If | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
there is going to be a reorganisation and it is put off | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
into the future, leaving councils then to languish on death row for | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
the next five or six years would be a huge problem. So if they are going | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
to do t I think the feeling across local government, is to get on with | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
it. And talk of reorganisation is seen by some as badly-timed and | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
inappropriate. It is not the panacea to the probss that local authorities | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
are facing in Wales. -- to the problems. We must not take our eye | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
off the ball. We need to preserve and keep pushing forward and | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
preserve in good, high-quality services. I don't want a distraction | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
from that. It's estimated that reorganisation would cost ?200 | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
million and lead to 15,000 council job losses. While that would be a | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
tortuous process, some feel it could be a force for good. Michael Tricky | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
is Director of Wales Public Services, #20e 25, an independent | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
think-tank based at Cardiff Business School, conducting research into the | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
long-term future of public service delivery. A lot of this depends on | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
how you approach T if you approach it neglectively and defensively, | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
what you will get is negative and defensive results. But I think that | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
- I sense across local Government in Wales and elsewhere, that there is a | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
real sense of the challenge, the scale of the challenge ahead, the | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
scale of change that they need and perhaps the sense of the opportunity | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
that local Government and organisations, a fresh start, fresh | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
beginnings, working towards new horizons, that could be very | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
stimulating and exciting. REPORTER: So, by working with the community -- | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
So by working with the community heapfully this is a which to | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
sustain... But here at this public meeting, people aren't working about | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
reorganisations and whether there are too many councils, they are | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
concerned about council tax and the fate of services they depend on | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
Everyone pays council tax. If they start charging for the library, | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
youngsters will not use T they'll not have that access. It is a scary | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
situation. Everyone has financial difficulties at home and are worried | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
about jobs and different things. But while communities have come out in | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
force to fight for their local services, it is unclear whether they | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
would take to the streets if it was their entire council facing | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
extinction. Well that was Helen Callaghan | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
reporting. Joining me is Jeff Jones, former leader of Bridgend council | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
and now a leader government consultant. This Williams | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
commission, what are you expecting? We are expecting they will redues | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
the number of authorities be down to about is 1 is the rumour T could be | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
less or slightly more. -- down to about 11 is the rumour. What do you | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
think? I would go smaller. The production of the prop is the easy | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
bit. The bit we should be discussing is what we expect the new local | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
Government sows tomb to deliver and what is the ideal type of authority | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
to deliver that system. We are not debating this. That's the danger. | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
The previous Tory organisations were driven by the Conservatives on | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
political expediency. They wanted to destroy Labour local government in | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
Wales, they weren't interested in what happened afterwards because | :09:24. | :09:25. | |
they haven't got a big political hold. The big time this time is we | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
have an Assembly controlled by the Labour Party and a local Government | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
controlled by the Labour Party. So there is real politics in this. It | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
isn't just staff who will lose their jobs at the WLGA. It is councillors | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
who will lose their position. We have the politics to look at and the | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
costs. There will be huge costs upfront. Even if, in the long-term | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
there are savings, those savings might not come about until year, 6 - | :09:47. | :09:56. | |
year 6 or 7. From day #1, if you have 11 authorities, then 11 senior | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
management teams will go and they'll in the go without a load of money to | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
compensate the fact of losing their jobs. You mention the Labour | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
dimension which is central to some of this. Is the political will | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
there, from the First Minister and colleagues to drive through this | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
kind of radical change? They make the rhetoric. They have all said | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
nobody supports the present structure. But the contributors was | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
entirely right. The worst thing to happen is on Monday is for everyone | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
to say - thank you, Sir Paul and the commission, we'll look at it and | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
next year we are still looking at T the result will be a disaster for | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
the local Government. They are getting on with the cuts. The morale | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
will go right to the floor. What worries me is that delivery goes out | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
the window. What is forego then about is the actual person who needs | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
the service. -- forgotten about. We are all aware of those Deaners, | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
ultimately, though, Jeff, are you of the view that the present system of | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
22 authorities in he Wales is not fit for purpose. It doesn't make | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
sense in this post-devolution age? It has never made sense. This is a | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
big step we need to discuss and talk about and not be carried away next | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
week by a report that has been held up. We could produce it. This | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
morning I wrote down my idea of Wales, four or five authorities, I | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
did it in five seconds. It is easy. The hard bit is the politics and | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
implementation of what comes out. In five years are we going to see a | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
different structure of local government in Wales? Possibly if the | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
politicians in the Bay have the will. Their past record suggests | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
they push things over, or to use another Welsh phrase, they try to | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
kick for touch rather than score the try. In this one the ball is in | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
their hands. Do they wanted to do it? If they do, they have to say | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
within a short period - we are implementing the Williams' | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
commission, we are going to find the money for it and set up elections | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
for the shadow authorities as soon as possible, otherwise as Steve | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
Thomas says - authorities on death row will not deliver the services | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
all of us want. Jeff, good of you to come in. And local authority budgets | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
have come under even greater pressure in the past month, as | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
councils assess the cost of storm damage caused by the high tides and | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
gale-force winds that have battered the Welsh coastline. This winter has | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
seen some of the worst weather Wales has suffered in over 20 years - | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
storms have caused millions of pounds worth of damage. Some roads | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
in Pembrokeshire were damaged, including the route along Amroth | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
seafront, which was partially washed away. Aberystwyth was perhaps the | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
worst- hit area, with extensive damage to the famous Victorian | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
seafront and promendade. With current cost estimates rising to | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
millions, the question is where the money is going to come from. | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
Ceredigion Council's Deputy Leader, Ray Quant, had this plea for the | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
Welsh Government. What we will actually be looking for now is | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
support from the Welsh Government for the actual rest tors of putting | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
it back to where it was but in actual fact what we should be | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
looking for, at this moment in time, is not necessary just to have | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
restoration but to be making improvements. The Welsh Secretary, | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
David Jones, has said that we're unlikely to see any additional funds | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
from the Treasury, or from the EU, to help with clean-up costs. And the | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
Chair of the Assembly's Environment and Sustainability Committee, Lord | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
Elis Thomas, is calling for a more coherent approach to managing the | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
coastline. Part of the review now, a stat statutory be be responsibility | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
for Natural Resources Wales and for Welsh Government to deliver, that | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
review must look at the whole area in the round. Afterall we are a | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
country with massive coastline. If we look at the risk threat to our | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
population, about 225,000 of the residents of Wales are at some sort | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
of risk, one way or another, through flooding. And, therefore, this must | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
be a priority for any government. O Joining me now is the Minister for | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
Natural Resources, Labour's Alun Davies. Thank you for coming in. | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
Have you worked out where the money is coming from to help people who | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
have suffered so much damage? At the moment we are looking at assessing | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
what the damage is. We know there is superficial damage. We know there is | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
damage that is to be cleared up and cleaned up and that work is ongoing, | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
but then there is the more substantial structural damage we | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
need to look at, damage to the infrastructure. At the moment we are | :14:25. | :14:26. | |
assessing where we are with different local authorities. We have | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
spoken to all the local authorities dealing with these issues, and we | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
will be in a position in the next week or so, to take decisions on | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
those matters, where we need to make short-term investment and where we | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
need to make repairs and then, where we need to focus hard on the long | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
term. So where Ceredigion are saying - we are looking to the Welsh | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
Government for help, you will be providing that. I met Ceredigion | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
when I was there after the storms. Our officials have been working | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
together since then and we are putting to the an assessment of with | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
Ceredigion is and we will then be looking at how we provide the | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
support. I think they did a marvellous job of responding to this | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
and the council there have worked extremely hard in responding to what | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
was an extraordinary emergency on that weekend. What we have got to do | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
now, is to ensure we work together to rebuild the Prom, to clear up the | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
damage that has been done immediately, but we also need to | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
look at the long term. One of the conversations I had with Ceredigion | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
was about long-term sea defences for Aberystwyth and the town itself. | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
What you have done there is underline the scale of the ambition, | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
but that does have bidgetry implications as well. When you are | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
look ing looking at sea defences and looking at responding to the | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
challenge of climate change, that's a lot of money. It is. I'm wondering | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
again is the Welsh Government in a position to do that? Your own | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
department has its own share of budget cuts, ?20 million-plus, so | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
you will not be able to foot this bill. I'm proect itting the flood | :15:57. | :16:04. | |
defences of my budget. I'm looking at protecting nearly one quarter of | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
a billion pounds of investment in Wales during the lifetime of this | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
Assembly term and we'll continue with that investment. I want to look | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
at how we can bring in new investment. We are talking to the UK | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
Government on a regular basis, most days at the moment, about how we can | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
work together on this. We are also looking towards Europe to see if we | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
can put together an application for additional support, through European | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
funding streams. How hopeful are you there? We are putting together that | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
at the moment and we are looking at the assessments of where we are, | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
what the total dimensions of the damage has been and what structural | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
repairs we will need it make. When we understand all of that, we will | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
be in a better position to make a fuller statement on it. I will do | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
so. But, also, I have asked for a review of the coastal defences of | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
Wales in tow tality following the storms in December -- in totality. I | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
want to understand where our weaknesses are and where we need it | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
make emergency repairs and where we need to make more investment for the | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
future. I will pick up on that for a second. I was surprised to he soot | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
Welsh Secretary, David Jones, saying that no official request foreextra | :17:12. | :17:14. | |
funding help had come to his department from you -- no official | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
request for extra funding. Was that true? I was surprised to | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
see the Welsh Secretary saying that. I would be surprise surprised, I | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
would want to see him talking about how we can work together to help. | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
Have you asked him? We are not yet in the position to make that formal | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
bit d bid if you like. We are talking to them every day. We are | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
talking to departments in London. We have a good relationship with the UK | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
Government. I don't understand why the Secretary of State doesn't | :17:51. | :17:52. | |
understand or appreciate that. But he is right to say that know formal | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
bid has gone in But the context and conversations are taking place. | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
That's really important. We have a relationship with DEFRA in London | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
where we talk most day abouts how we deal with the different situations. | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
When would you be in a position to put a bid in? I would expect to be | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
able to look at the dimensions of the problems we are facing this week | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
and respond to it next week. Co-ordinating the approach. Lord el | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
WLord Elis Thomas making it's point it needs to be more coherent, if you | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
look at the Welsh coastline and the increasing problems with climate | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
change, do you agree with him or do you think there should be one body | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
responsible for managing the approach to koeslines? Agree with | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
him we have seen a change in patterns, as a direct be consequence | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
of climate change and we need to adapt to an action plan in Wales | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
which takes into account the change in weather patterns aes a result of | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
climate change. I agree with that. We do have adaptation plans in | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
place. One of the purposes of the review that NRW are carrying out for | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
me at the moment is tolike at o how strong those processes, those | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
systems are. -- to to look at how strong. If we need to strengthen | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
them, we will do so. At the moment we have a number of bodies | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
responsible for defences in different places, mainly NRW in | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
local government but obviously to product infrastructure in companies | :19:22. | :19:23. | |
such as the railways. We need to look at how all that is working. At | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
the moment for many parts of our coast, we are quite well-protected | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
but we need to lack at where we are vulnerable. We need to search out | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
for weaknesses and identify those weaknesses and then we need to | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
identify how we will ensure that coastal communities across the bhoel | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
face of Wales are protected. -- whole face. I do not want to walk | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
along and through a community like I did last week in Aberystwyth and see | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
the damage done to a major settlement along our coastline. | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
Everybody living in near our coast deserves and needs protection. This | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
Government will not let them down. Wales's disappointing performance, | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
to put it mildly, in the latest international education rankings - | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
known as PISA - has been the subject of much concern over recent weeks, | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
with standards slipping across the board. The worst showing was in | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
science. Wales dropped 6 places and one of our most distinguished | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
scientists is now calling for more to be done to promote interest in | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
science in school and beyond. Sir Martin Evans, who won the Nobel | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
Prize in 2007 for his pioneering work on stem-cell research, says | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
that people should be far more aware of the great work being done in | :20:31. | :20:32. | |
Wales. I have been interested in science | :20:33. | :20:49. | |
throughout my life. I have been fortunate enough to be able to carry | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
out a scientific career and that has been my life. | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
I do think that scienceville a fundamental importance to everyone. | :21:01. | :21:08. | |
It is a base skill these days. You know, in the last century, I | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
suppose, well certainly over our lifetimes, there have been amazing | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
discoveries in biology, in medicine, astronomy, and of course, huge | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
technological developments, all of which are based on physical | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
understanding. I think they would be terribly undersold if we don't give | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
people the opportunity to understand what it is all about. I think we | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
should teach scientific understanding, so anybody in society | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
can have an idea of what it is all about. Part of that is understanding | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
how science answers questions. How we can use experiments to test | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
different hypothesis. Different ways of looking at it. Is this one right | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
other that one right? We don't know, we will find out. I think that's so | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
different from just emotional imagination. But imagination is | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
hugely important. Many people don't realise that | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
emergency emergenciation, lateral thinking, looking atp things from a | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
different way, is essential for scientific advance. The essence of | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
being a human, is being able to be there to interact, to imagine, and | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
of course, scientificically, it is the imagination that's allowed all | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
the advances. I don't want to see that stamped out from any child at | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
all. In Wales, the Welsh Assembly Government is very concerned, quite | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
rightly, with the levels of numeracy and literacy coming out of our | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
schools, therefore, they are lacking at changing the curriculum, | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
particularly at Key Stage 2, that's the upper stage of the primary | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
school, to really concentrate on English and maths, basically. That's | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
fine. But, at that stage, too, there was a continuation going on of | :23:07. | :23:13. | |
starting people on science. It's been very good. And it would be a | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
disaster for us, if that were dropped. If you drop t you will then | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
drop a whole segment of our education and you will be putting | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
people in a position where they may find it more difficult to pick it | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
up. Science is a way of thinking. A very useful way of thinking to look | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
at and understand problems and to understand where we are. I think it | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
should be everybody's privilege to be able to understand where they are | :23:46. | :23:53. | |
in the world. Plenty of food for thout for Sir | :23:54. | :24:03. | |
Martin Essex. Joining me is Wendy Sadler, directedor of Science Made | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
Simple, an initiative to encourage schoolchildren to participate in | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
science and Professor Karen Holford, the Pro Vice Chancellor of Cardiff | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
University college of physical science. Why are we not engaging | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
children? Science is something children are curious about. | :24:23. | :24:24. | |
Something seems to happen between primary and secondary school which | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
makes them switch off. We are putting demands on teachers and they | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
are not getting time to explore perhaps the fun and practical side | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
of science. When we go into schools we take lots of experiments and take | :24:38. | :24:44. | |
perhaps things that children are already excited about, music, and | :24:45. | :24:51. | |
medicine. Teachers are saying they don't get time. They don't get time | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
or not allowed to? I think it is because they are trying to get | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
through so many things that are not tested there is not the free reign. | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
Perhaps some of it comes down to teachers not having confidence in | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
science. We know there is a problem with recruiting teachers, | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
particularly with a physical science background. To my find, if a student | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
doesn't see a teacher passionate about the subject talking, then | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
they'll lose that love. I think a teacher can only teach effectively | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
if they love the subject. Universities are all Ben couraging | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
enthusiasm and interest and passion. So, would it be fair for me to say | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
to you, are our universities turning out graduates who have that | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
necessary enthusiasm that they can pass on to pupils Absolutely. | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
Science is perceived as being a hard subject. I think that's one of the | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
things we have to dispel that myth, about it being a hard subject. It is | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
hard to subject any subject at university but it is possible and | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
you know people should rise to the challenge. Viewers will be struck | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
that I'm interviewing two women about science. But, I think it is | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
fair to say, there has been a kind of gender perception problem about | :25:57. | :25:58. | |
science in the past as well, which is in many cases, it has been seen | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
as something of interest to men, mostly. Again, what is being done to | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
challenge those perceptions A lot of good work being done, organisations | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
like Women in Science and Engineers and Engineering Scheme for Wales and | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
others are doing good work. One of the things from my point of view is | :26:17. | :26:18. | |
reaching the parents. Parents, believe it or not, have a huge | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
influence on their children and children do go to parents for | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
advice. If a parent is a little nervous about their daughter | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
becoming an engineer, as my parents were, you know, that daughter is | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
going to have to fight hard to find out the information and it is always | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
going to be a challenge. I think parents have a huge part to play. | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
Also, society has a huge part to play in saying - this is a role | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
model, a woman who is a successful engineer, scientist, and is enjoying | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
her job. We were talking about the PISA results which clearly in school | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
terms have are been disappointing and science saw the biggest drop of | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
all. Yes, people will accept there is curriculum and time pressure, but | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
there must be a question as well about the quality of teaching in | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
some of our schools where science is concerned, do we acknowledge that? I | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
think it is not necessarily only that. There are many schemes that we | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
have looked at across the UK that aren't being matched in Wales, | :27:11. | :27:12. | |
particularly for teachers who have to teach physics but don't have have | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
a background in physics. The Institute Institute of Physics has | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
done work in England and ask the land but not matched yet in Wales. | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
There is a question about the support teachers get. I don't think | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
they are given time to follow their skills. You won't find a teacher who | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
is in it for a ride. They want to do their job well. They need support. | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
Final point. Sir Martin clearly is a global star, someone who has | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
achieved remarkable things and the Nobel Prize recognise that is but he | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
makes the point, modestlily, about people in Wales not being awhich are | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
of the work that has been done -- modestly, about people in Wales not | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
being aware of the work he has done. I bet people in Wales don't know | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
about the work he has done. What can we do to market that? We need to be | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
bolder and more confident in promoting ourselves. In the past we | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
have thought - people should know this. But they don't. We have to | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
shout about our successes. Yesterday the top UK 100 scientists pass | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
published. We have two from Cardiff University. And 40 of them were | :28:21. | :28:22. | |
women. Great news on which to end on. Thank | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
you both for coming in. Thank you very much. | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
That's it for this week's programme. We will be back next Wednesday. In | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
the meantime you can get in touch with us by e-mail: And we are on | :28:35. | :28:36. | |
Twitter: Thank you for watching and good | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
night. | :28:43. | :28:48. |