15/01/2014 The Wales Report


15/01/2014

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 15/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Tonight on the Wales report. Local authorities are trying to balance

:00:09.:00:12.

the books. Budgets are being cut but should the the biggest count be in

:00:13.:00:16.

the number of we'll shall councils? The clean-up continues after the

:00:17.:00:20.

storms that batter the Welsh coastline but who will be picking up

:00:21.:00:26.

the Bill and Sir Martin Evans says it is time to promote more interest

:00:27.:00:33.

in science. Stay with us for the Wales Report. Good evening, welcome

:00:34.:00:42.

back to the Wales Report, where we consider issues that affect the

:00:43.:00:45.

people of Wales and question some of those making the decisions. On

:00:46.:00:48.

tonight's programme: Welsh local authorities are facing record budget

:00:49.:00:51.

cuts. They're counting the cash available for services such as

:00:52.:00:53.

refuse collections, libraries, and leisure centres. They're trying to

:00:54.:00:56.

balance their books but some possible answers are service cuts,

:00:57.:00:59.

job losses and a possible rise in council tax. A commission appointed

:01:00.:01:03.

by the Welsh Government on the future delivery of public services

:01:04.:01:07.

is about to report its findings. And the question is now being asked

:01:08.:01:10.

openly, instead of focusing on the budgets on 22 individual councils -

:01:11.:01:14.

should we be talking about a radical reshaping of Welsh local government?

:01:15.:01:18.

Helen Callaghan reports. Communities in uproar have become a

:01:19.:01:29.

common sight, as people battle to save the services they cherish from

:01:30.:01:32.

council cuts. But in an effort to minimise public

:01:33.:01:38.

anger, and get them onside, local authorities have been reaching out

:01:39.:01:41.

to people, through public consultation on an unprecedented

:01:42.:01:49.

scale. Good evening. I'm the Chief Executive fted Council. The

:01:50.:01:53.

residents of Monmouthshire have been invited here to this school to share

:01:54.:02:00.

their views with Council bosses about proposed cuts to services,

:02:01.:02:04.

deliver them differently and put up council tax. We are here today with

:02:05.:02:08.

some proposals we want to discuss with you. However we still have a

:02:09.:02:11.

big journey yet. They want the public to steer them in the right

:02:12.:02:15.

direction. Are you prepared to go even higher on a council tax rise,

:02:16.:02:19.

or do you want us to look for more cuts to balance the budget? But what

:02:20.:02:24.

one person feels is important, another does not. And agreement is

:02:25.:02:30.

extremely hard to achieve. We all should be helping each other, not

:02:31.:02:33.

one certain section should be cut. There are going to be cuts, clearly.

:02:34.:02:38.

What are some of the openingses? Are there any real options? But there is

:02:39.:02:43.

one harsh truth that everyone in this room understands. Monmouthshire

:02:44.:02:47.

county council has it make more than ?20 million worth of savings over

:02:48.:02:50.

the next four years and the council is not alone.

:02:51.:02:57.

Wales '22 local authorities are embroiled in a number crunching

:02:58.:03:02.

nightmare. It's estimated that selectively they'll be faced with a

:03:03.:03:12.

short fall of nearly 460 million and that 20,000 council jobs will go in

:03:13.:03:16.

Wales in the next five years. I witnessed the gloomy realities

:03:17.:03:20.

confronting councils first hand when we filmed councillors and officials

:03:21.:03:25.

debating Monmouthshire's proposed spending plans We still have a gap

:03:26.:03:30.

of over ?1 million. It is disappointing after so much

:03:31.:03:33.

consultation and scrutiny and work by officers that we still have a

:03:34.:03:37.

budget funding gap at this stage, only weeks before we have to

:03:38.:03:41.

announce what our final budget proposals are. Monmouthshire and the

:03:42.:03:45.

other local authorities across Wales have until early March to get their

:03:46.:03:50.

spending plans for the next financial year signed off. The Wales

:03:51.:03:53.

Report has been speaking to all of our councils to get a better idea of

:03:54.:03:59.

which services are under threat. Across Wales, councils are

:04:00.:04:04.

predicting a collective cut of ?30 million to social care budge etsds.

:04:05.:04:13.

19 day centres may close. 35 public libraries could shut. . Some areas

:04:14.:04:21.

may see a 2,000% increase to fees for leisure services. This is just a

:04:22.:04:25.

small fraction of what we can expect to be hit. With some communities

:04:26.:04:29.

also facing council tax hikes of up to 5%.

:04:30.:04:32.

Local Government finances and those behind the book-balancing are under

:04:33.:04:37.

the spotlight, like never before and council leaders, like Peter Fox are

:04:38.:04:42.

feeling the strain. It really hurts when you have been

:04:43.:04:45.

working hard for your communities and you have to try to deliver the

:04:46.:04:48.

tough messages about how you are going to have to change things,

:04:49.:04:52.

which may affect some people. I hope people understand that what we are

:04:53.:04:55.

trying to do, is find the very best way forward in their interests.

:04:56.:05:00.

But the impending assault on services, has sparked fierce attacks

:05:01.:05:10.

against local councils. CHANTS OF SHAME ON YOU And there are calls for

:05:11.:05:18.

a radical overhaul of how many there are. Last Government a commission

:05:19.:05:22.

was set up to review the way devolved public services are run and

:05:23.:05:25.

it suggest improvements. Its findings are due to be published

:05:26.:05:29.

later this month and it is widely believed it'll recommend radically

:05:30.:05:32.

reducing the number of local authorities we have here in Wales.

:05:33.:05:37.

For now, most council bosses are keeping their thoughts on this

:05:38.:05:41.

controversial issue private. But some did take to the Wales Report

:05:42.:05:46.

anonymously. Three council leaders told me they support a reduction of

:05:47.:05:50.

the 22 local authorities we now have. But four are against it.

:05:51.:05:55.

The Welsh Government has ruled out reorganisation, before the #2 2016

:05:56.:06:01.

Assembly elections. Bsh 2016. But while any shake-up could be some

:06:02.:06:04.

years away, there are calls for decisions to be made quickly. If

:06:05.:06:07.

there is going to be a reorganisation and it is put off

:06:08.:06:11.

into the future, leaving councils then to languish on death row for

:06:12.:06:15.

the next five or six years would be a huge problem. So if they are going

:06:16.:06:19.

to do t I think the feeling across local government, is to get on with

:06:20.:06:23.

it. And talk of reorganisation is seen by some as badly-timed and

:06:24.:06:28.

inappropriate. It is not the panacea to the probss that local authorities

:06:29.:06:31.

are facing in Wales. -- to the problems. We must not take our eye

:06:32.:06:36.

off the ball. We need to preserve and keep pushing forward and

:06:37.:06:39.

preserve in good, high-quality services. I don't want a distraction

:06:40.:06:43.

from that. It's estimated that reorganisation would cost ?200

:06:44.:06:50.

million and lead to 15,000 council job losses. While that would be a

:06:51.:06:54.

tortuous process, some feel it could be a force for good. Michael Tricky

:06:55.:07:01.

is Director of Wales Public Services, #20e 25, an independent

:07:02.:07:06.

think-tank based at Cardiff Business School, conducting research into the

:07:07.:07:09.

long-term future of public service delivery. A lot of this depends on

:07:10.:07:14.

how you approach T if you approach it neglectively and defensively,

:07:15.:07:18.

what you will get is negative and defensive results. But I think that

:07:19.:07:23.

- I sense across local Government in Wales and elsewhere, that there is a

:07:24.:07:27.

real sense of the challenge, the scale of the challenge ahead, the

:07:28.:07:31.

scale of change that they need and perhaps the sense of the opportunity

:07:32.:07:34.

that local Government and organisations, a fresh start, fresh

:07:35.:07:39.

beginnings, working towards new horizons, that could be very

:07:40.:07:43.

stimulating and exciting. REPORTER: So, by working with the community --

:07:44.:07:49.

So by working with the community heapfully this is a which to

:07:50.:07:53.

sustain... But here at this public meeting, people aren't working about

:07:54.:07:56.

reorganisations and whether there are too many councils, they are

:07:57.:08:01.

concerned about council tax and the fate of services they depend on

:08:02.:08:04.

Everyone pays council tax. If they start charging for the library,

:08:05.:08:08.

youngsters will not use T they'll not have that access. It is a scary

:08:09.:08:12.

situation. Everyone has financial difficulties at home and are worried

:08:13.:08:17.

about jobs and different things. But while communities have come out in

:08:18.:08:20.

force to fight for their local services, it is unclear whether they

:08:21.:08:24.

would take to the streets if it was their entire council facing

:08:25.:08:29.

extinction. Well that was Helen Callaghan

:08:30.:08:35.

reporting. Joining me is Jeff Jones, former leader of Bridgend council

:08:36.:08:39.

and now a leader government consultant. This Williams

:08:40.:08:42.

commission, what are you expecting? We are expecting they will redues

:08:43.:08:45.

the number of authorities be down to about is 1 is the rumour T could be

:08:46.:08:52.

less or slightly more. -- down to about 11 is the rumour. What do you

:08:53.:08:59.

think? I would go smaller. The production of the prop is the easy

:09:00.:09:02.

bit. The bit we should be discussing is what we expect the new local

:09:03.:09:06.

Government sows tomb to deliver and what is the ideal type of authority

:09:07.:09:10.

to deliver that system. We are not debating this. That's the danger.

:09:11.:09:14.

The previous Tory organisations were driven by the Conservatives on

:09:15.:09:19.

political expediency. They wanted to destroy Labour local government in

:09:20.:09:23.

Wales, they weren't interested in what happened afterwards because

:09:24.:09:25.

they haven't got a big political hold. The big time this time is we

:09:26.:09:29.

have an Assembly controlled by the Labour Party and a local Government

:09:30.:09:32.

controlled by the Labour Party. So there is real politics in this. It

:09:33.:09:35.

isn't just staff who will lose their jobs at the WLGA. It is councillors

:09:36.:09:39.

who will lose their position. We have the politics to look at and the

:09:40.:09:43.

costs. There will be huge costs upfront. Even if, in the long-term

:09:44.:09:46.

there are savings, those savings might not come about until year, 6 -

:09:47.:09:56.

year 6 or 7. From day #1, if you have 11 authorities, then 11 senior

:09:57.:10:00.

management teams will go and they'll in the go without a load of money to

:10:01.:10:04.

compensate the fact of losing their jobs. You mention the Labour

:10:05.:10:08.

dimension which is central to some of this. Is the political will

:10:09.:10:11.

there, from the First Minister and colleagues to drive through this

:10:12.:10:15.

kind of radical change? They make the rhetoric. They have all said

:10:16.:10:19.

nobody supports the present structure. But the contributors was

:10:20.:10:25.

entirely right. The worst thing to happen is on Monday is for everyone

:10:26.:10:29.

to say - thank you, Sir Paul and the commission, we'll look at it and

:10:30.:10:32.

next year we are still looking at T the result will be a disaster for

:10:33.:10:35.

the local Government. They are getting on with the cuts. The morale

:10:36.:10:38.

will go right to the floor. What worries me is that delivery goes out

:10:39.:10:42.

the window. What is forego then about is the actual person who needs

:10:43.:10:47.

the service. -- forgotten about. We are all aware of those Deaners,

:10:48.:10:52.

ultimately, though, Jeff, are you of the view that the present system of

:10:53.:10:56.

22 authorities in he Wales is not fit for purpose. It doesn't make

:10:57.:11:00.

sense in this post-devolution age? It has never made sense. This is a

:11:01.:11:04.

big step we need to discuss and talk about and not be carried away next

:11:05.:11:10.

week by a report that has been held up. We could produce it. This

:11:11.:11:14.

morning I wrote down my idea of Wales, four or five authorities, I

:11:15.:11:18.

did it in five seconds. It is easy. The hard bit is the politics and

:11:19.:11:22.

implementation of what comes out. In five years are we going to see a

:11:23.:11:27.

different structure of local government in Wales? Possibly if the

:11:28.:11:30.

politicians in the Bay have the will. Their past record suggests

:11:31.:11:37.

they push things over, or to use another Welsh phrase, they try to

:11:38.:11:41.

kick for touch rather than score the try. In this one the ball is in

:11:42.:11:45.

their hands. Do they wanted to do it? If they do, they have to say

:11:46.:11:48.

within a short period - we are implementing the Williams'

:11:49.:11:51.

commission, we are going to find the money for it and set up elections

:11:52.:11:55.

for the shadow authorities as soon as possible, otherwise as Steve

:11:56.:11:58.

Thomas says - authorities on death row will not deliver the services

:11:59.:12:02.

all of us want. Jeff, good of you to come in. And local authority budgets

:12:03.:12:09.

have come under even greater pressure in the past month, as

:12:10.:12:12.

councils assess the cost of storm damage caused by the high tides and

:12:13.:12:16.

gale-force winds that have battered the Welsh coastline. This winter has

:12:17.:12:19.

seen some of the worst weather Wales has suffered in over 20 years -

:12:20.:12:22.

storms have caused millions of pounds worth of damage. Some roads

:12:23.:12:25.

in Pembrokeshire were damaged, including the route along Amroth

:12:26.:12:28.

seafront, which was partially washed away. Aberystwyth was perhaps the

:12:29.:12:32.

worst- hit area, with extensive damage to the famous Victorian

:12:33.:12:35.

seafront and promendade. With current cost estimates rising to

:12:36.:12:38.

millions, the question is where the money is going to come from.

:12:39.:12:42.

Ceredigion Council's Deputy Leader, Ray Quant, had this plea for the

:12:43.:12:47.

Welsh Government. What we will actually be looking for now is

:12:48.:12:51.

support from the Welsh Government for the actual rest tors of putting

:12:52.:12:56.

it back to where it was but in actual fact what we should be

:12:57.:13:00.

looking for, at this moment in time, is not necessary just to have

:13:01.:13:03.

restoration but to be making improvements. The Welsh Secretary,

:13:04.:13:09.

David Jones, has said that we're unlikely to see any additional funds

:13:10.:13:12.

from the Treasury, or from the EU, to help with clean-up costs. And the

:13:13.:13:15.

Chair of the Assembly's Environment and Sustainability Committee, Lord

:13:16.:13:18.

Elis Thomas, is calling for a more coherent approach to managing the

:13:19.:13:25.

coastline. Part of the review now, a stat statutory be be responsibility

:13:26.:13:29.

for Natural Resources Wales and for Welsh Government to deliver, that

:13:30.:13:35.

review must look at the whole area in the round. Afterall we are a

:13:36.:13:40.

country with massive coastline. If we look at the risk threat to our

:13:41.:13:47.

population, about 225,000 of the residents of Wales are at some sort

:13:48.:13:52.

of risk, one way or another, through flooding. And, therefore, this must

:13:53.:13:59.

be a priority for any government. O Joining me now is the Minister for

:14:00.:14:02.

Natural Resources, Labour's Alun Davies. Thank you for coming in.

:14:03.:14:06.

Have you worked out where the money is coming from to help people who

:14:07.:14:09.

have suffered so much damage? At the moment we are looking at assessing

:14:10.:14:13.

what the damage is. We know there is superficial damage. We know there is

:14:14.:14:16.

damage that is to be cleared up and cleaned up and that work is ongoing,

:14:17.:14:21.

but then there is the more substantial structural damage we

:14:22.:14:24.

need to look at, damage to the infrastructure. At the moment we are

:14:25.:14:26.

assessing where we are with different local authorities. We have

:14:27.:14:29.

spoken to all the local authorities dealing with these issues, and we

:14:30.:14:33.

will be in a position in the next week or so, to take decisions on

:14:34.:14:36.

those matters, where we need to make short-term investment and where we

:14:37.:14:39.

need to make repairs and then, where we need to focus hard on the long

:14:40.:14:46.

term. So where Ceredigion are saying - we are looking to the Welsh

:14:47.:14:49.

Government for help, you will be providing that. I met Ceredigion

:14:50.:14:53.

when I was there after the storms. Our officials have been working

:14:54.:14:56.

together since then and we are putting to the an assessment of with

:14:57.:15:00.

Ceredigion is and we will then be looking at how we provide the

:15:01.:15:04.

support. I think they did a marvellous job of responding to this

:15:05.:15:08.

and the council there have worked extremely hard in responding to what

:15:09.:15:11.

was an extraordinary emergency on that weekend. What we have got to do

:15:12.:15:15.

now, is to ensure we work together to rebuild the Prom, to clear up the

:15:16.:15:19.

damage that has been done immediately, but we also need to

:15:20.:15:22.

look at the long term. One of the conversations I had with Ceredigion

:15:23.:15:27.

was about long-term sea defences for Aberystwyth and the town itself.

:15:28.:15:30.

What you have done there is underline the scale of the ambition,

:15:31.:15:34.

but that does have bidgetry implications as well. When you are

:15:35.:15:38.

look ing looking at sea defences and looking at responding to the

:15:39.:15:41.

challenge of climate change, that's a lot of money. It is. I'm wondering

:15:42.:15:47.

again is the Welsh Government in a position to do that? Your own

:15:48.:15:51.

department has its own share of budget cuts, ?20 million-plus, so

:15:52.:15:56.

you will not be able to foot this bill. I'm proect itting the flood

:15:57.:16:04.

defences of my budget. I'm looking at protecting nearly one quarter of

:16:05.:16:09.

a billion pounds of investment in Wales during the lifetime of this

:16:10.:16:12.

Assembly term and we'll continue with that investment. I want to look

:16:13.:16:15.

at how we can bring in new investment. We are talking to the UK

:16:16.:16:19.

Government on a regular basis, most days at the moment, about how we can

:16:20.:16:23.

work together on this. We are also looking towards Europe to see if we

:16:24.:16:27.

can put together an application for additional support, through European

:16:28.:16:31.

funding streams. How hopeful are you there? We are putting together that

:16:32.:16:34.

at the moment and we are looking at the assessments of where we are,

:16:35.:16:38.

what the total dimensions of the damage has been and what structural

:16:39.:16:41.

repairs we will need it make. When we understand all of that, we will

:16:42.:16:45.

be in a better position to make a fuller statement on it. I will do

:16:46.:16:49.

so. But, also, I have asked for a review of the coastal defences of

:16:50.:16:53.

Wales in tow tality following the storms in December -- in totality. I

:16:54.:16:59.

want to understand where our weaknesses are and where we need it

:17:00.:17:03.

make emergency repairs and where we need to make more investment for the

:17:04.:17:06.

future. I will pick up on that for a second. I was surprised to he soot

:17:07.:17:11.

Welsh Secretary, David Jones, saying that no official request foreextra

:17:12.:17:14.

funding help had come to his department from you -- no official

:17:15.:17:20.

request for extra funding. Was that true? I was surprised to

:17:21.:17:24.

see the Welsh Secretary saying that. I would be surprise surprised, I

:17:25.:17:32.

would want to see him talking about how we can work together to help.

:17:33.:17:37.

Have you asked him? We are not yet in the position to make that formal

:17:38.:17:41.

bit d bid if you like. We are talking to them every day. We are

:17:42.:17:44.

talking to departments in London. We have a good relationship with the UK

:17:45.:17:50.

Government. I don't understand why the Secretary of State doesn't

:17:51.:17:52.

understand or appreciate that. But he is right to say that know formal

:17:53.:17:57.

bid has gone in But the context and conversations are taking place.

:17:58.:18:01.

That's really important. We have a relationship with DEFRA in London

:18:02.:18:04.

where we talk most day abouts how we deal with the different situations.

:18:05.:18:08.

When would you be in a position to put a bid in? I would expect to be

:18:09.:18:15.

able to look at the dimensions of the problems we are facing this week

:18:16.:18:22.

and respond to it next week. Co-ordinating the approach. Lord el

:18:23.:18:26.

WLord Elis Thomas making it's point it needs to be more coherent, if you

:18:27.:18:31.

look at the Welsh coastline and the increasing problems with climate

:18:32.:18:35.

change, do you agree with him or do you think there should be one body

:18:36.:18:39.

responsible for managing the approach to koeslines? Agree with

:18:40.:18:44.

him we have seen a change in patterns, as a direct be consequence

:18:45.:18:48.

of climate change and we need to adapt to an action plan in Wales

:18:49.:18:52.

which takes into account the change in weather patterns aes a result of

:18:53.:18:55.

climate change. I agree with that. We do have adaptation plans in

:18:56.:19:00.

place. One of the purposes of the review that NRW are carrying out for

:19:01.:19:05.

me at the moment is tolike at o how strong those processes, those

:19:06.:19:09.

systems are. -- to to look at how strong. If we need to strengthen

:19:10.:19:12.

them, we will do so. At the moment we have a number of bodies

:19:13.:19:16.

responsible for defences in different places, mainly NRW in

:19:17.:19:21.

local government but obviously to product infrastructure in companies

:19:22.:19:23.

such as the railways. We need to look at how all that is working. At

:19:24.:19:27.

the moment for many parts of our coast, we are quite well-protected

:19:28.:19:31.

but we need to lack at where we are vulnerable. We need to search out

:19:32.:19:35.

for weaknesses and identify those weaknesses and then we need to

:19:36.:19:39.

identify how we will ensure that coastal communities across the bhoel

:19:40.:19:43.

face of Wales are protected. -- whole face. I do not want to walk

:19:44.:19:47.

along and through a community like I did last week in Aberystwyth and see

:19:48.:19:53.

the damage done to a major settlement along our coastline.

:19:54.:19:58.

Everybody living in near our coast deserves and needs protection. This

:19:59.:20:04.

Government will not let them down. Wales's disappointing performance,

:20:05.:20:07.

to put it mildly, in the latest international education rankings -

:20:08.:20:10.

known as PISA - has been the subject of much concern over recent weeks,

:20:11.:20:13.

with standards slipping across the board. The worst showing was in

:20:14.:20:17.

science. Wales dropped 6 places and one of our most distinguished

:20:18.:20:20.

scientists is now calling for more to be done to promote interest in

:20:21.:20:24.

science in school and beyond. Sir Martin Evans, who won the Nobel

:20:25.:20:27.

Prize in 2007 for his pioneering work on stem-cell research, says

:20:28.:20:30.

that people should be far more aware of the great work being done in

:20:31.:20:32.

Wales. I have been interested in science

:20:33.:20:49.

throughout my life. I have been fortunate enough to be able to carry

:20:50.:20:53.

out a scientific career and that has been my life.

:20:54.:21:00.

I do think that scienceville a fundamental importance to everyone.

:21:01.:21:08.

It is a base skill these days. You know, in the last century, I

:21:09.:21:12.

suppose, well certainly over our lifetimes, there have been amazing

:21:13.:21:18.

discoveries in biology, in medicine, astronomy, and of course, huge

:21:19.:21:22.

technological developments, all of which are based on physical

:21:23.:21:28.

understanding. I think they would be terribly undersold if we don't give

:21:29.:21:32.

people the opportunity to understand what it is all about. I think we

:21:33.:21:39.

should teach scientific understanding, so anybody in society

:21:40.:21:45.

can have an idea of what it is all about. Part of that is understanding

:21:46.:21:52.

how science answers questions. How we can use experiments to test

:21:53.:21:58.

different hypothesis. Different ways of looking at it. Is this one right

:21:59.:22:02.

other that one right? We don't know, we will find out. I think that's so

:22:03.:22:07.

different from just emotional imagination. But imagination is

:22:08.:22:13.

hugely important. Many people don't realise that

:22:14.:22:17.

emergency emergenciation, lateral thinking, looking atp things from a

:22:18.:22:22.

different way, is essential for scientific advance. The essence of

:22:23.:22:26.

being a human, is being able to be there to interact, to imagine, and

:22:27.:22:30.

of course, scientificically, it is the imagination that's allowed all

:22:31.:22:35.

the advances. I don't want to see that stamped out from any child at

:22:36.:22:42.

all. In Wales, the Welsh Assembly Government is very concerned, quite

:22:43.:22:47.

rightly, with the levels of numeracy and literacy coming out of our

:22:48.:22:51.

schools, therefore, they are lacking at changing the curriculum,

:22:52.:22:56.

particularly at Key Stage 2, that's the upper stage of the primary

:22:57.:23:01.

school, to really concentrate on English and maths, basically. That's

:23:02.:23:06.

fine. But, at that stage, too, there was a continuation going on of

:23:07.:23:13.

starting people on science. It's been very good. And it would be a

:23:14.:23:19.

disaster for us, if that were dropped. If you drop t you will then

:23:20.:23:25.

drop a whole segment of our education and you will be putting

:23:26.:23:29.

people in a position where they may find it more difficult to pick it

:23:30.:23:35.

up. Science is a way of thinking. A very useful way of thinking to look

:23:36.:23:41.

at and understand problems and to understand where we are. I think it

:23:42.:23:45.

should be everybody's privilege to be able to understand where they are

:23:46.:23:53.

in the world. Plenty of food for thout for Sir

:23:54.:24:03.

Martin Essex. Joining me is Wendy Sadler, directedor of Science Made

:24:04.:24:07.

Simple, an initiative to encourage schoolchildren to participate in

:24:08.:24:13.

science and Professor Karen Holford, the Pro Vice Chancellor of Cardiff

:24:14.:24:17.

University college of physical science. Why are we not engaging

:24:18.:24:22.

children? Science is something children are curious about.

:24:23.:24:24.

Something seems to happen between primary and secondary school which

:24:25.:24:28.

makes them switch off. We are putting demands on teachers and they

:24:29.:24:31.

are not getting time to explore perhaps the fun and practical side

:24:32.:24:37.

of science. When we go into schools we take lots of experiments and take

:24:38.:24:44.

perhaps things that children are already excited about, music, and

:24:45.:24:51.

medicine. Teachers are saying they don't get time. They don't get time

:24:52.:24:56.

or not allowed to? I think it is because they are trying to get

:24:57.:24:59.

through so many things that are not tested there is not the free reign.

:25:00.:25:02.

Perhaps some of it comes down to teachers not having confidence in

:25:03.:25:06.

science. We know there is a problem with recruiting teachers,

:25:07.:25:10.

particularly with a physical science background. To my find, if a student

:25:11.:25:13.

doesn't see a teacher passionate about the subject talking, then

:25:14.:25:17.

they'll lose that love. I think a teacher can only teach effectively

:25:18.:25:20.

if they love the subject. Universities are all Ben couraging

:25:21.:25:23.

enthusiasm and interest and passion. So, would it be fair for me to say

:25:24.:25:28.

to you, are our universities turning out graduates who have that

:25:29.:25:33.

necessary enthusiasm that they can pass on to pupils Absolutely.

:25:34.:25:37.

Science is perceived as being a hard subject. I think that's one of the

:25:38.:25:40.

things we have to dispel that myth, about it being a hard subject. It is

:25:41.:25:43.

hard to subject any subject at university but it is possible and

:25:44.:25:47.

you know people should rise to the challenge. Viewers will be struck

:25:48.:25:51.

that I'm interviewing two women about science. But, I think it is

:25:52.:25:56.

fair to say, there has been a kind of gender perception problem about

:25:57.:25:58.

science in the past as well, which is in many cases, it has been seen

:25:59.:26:02.

as something of interest to men, mostly. Again, what is being done to

:26:03.:26:06.

challenge those perceptions A lot of good work being done, organisations

:26:07.:26:12.

like Women in Science and Engineers and Engineering Scheme for Wales and

:26:13.:26:16.

others are doing good work. One of the things from my point of view is

:26:17.:26:18.

reaching the parents. Parents, believe it or not, have a huge

:26:19.:26:22.

influence on their children and children do go to parents for

:26:23.:26:25.

advice. If a parent is a little nervous about their daughter

:26:26.:26:28.

becoming an engineer, as my parents were, you know, that daughter is

:26:29.:26:32.

going to have to fight hard to find out the information and it is always

:26:33.:26:35.

going to be a challenge. I think parents have a huge part to play.

:26:36.:26:39.

Also, society has a huge part to play in saying - this is a role

:26:40.:26:42.

model, a woman who is a successful engineer, scientist, and is enjoying

:26:43.:26:48.

her job. We were talking about the PISA results which clearly in school

:26:49.:26:53.

terms have are been disappointing and science saw the biggest drop of

:26:54.:26:56.

all. Yes, people will accept there is curriculum and time pressure, but

:26:57.:27:00.

there must be a question as well about the quality of teaching in

:27:01.:27:03.

some of our schools where science is concerned, do we acknowledge that? I

:27:04.:27:06.

think it is not necessarily only that. There are many schemes that we

:27:07.:27:10.

have looked at across the UK that aren't being matched in Wales,

:27:11.:27:12.

particularly for teachers who have to teach physics but don't have have

:27:13.:27:20.

a background in physics. The Institute Institute of Physics has

:27:21.:27:24.

done work in England and ask the land but not matched yet in Wales.

:27:25.:27:27.

There is a question about the support teachers get. I don't think

:27:28.:27:32.

they are given time to follow their skills. You won't find a teacher who

:27:33.:27:36.

is in it for a ride. They want to do their job well. They need support.

:27:37.:27:41.

Final point. Sir Martin clearly is a global star, someone who has

:27:42.:27:44.

achieved remarkable things and the Nobel Prize recognise that is but he

:27:45.:27:48.

makes the point, modestlily, about people in Wales not being awhich are

:27:49.:27:53.

of the work that has been done -- modestly, about people in Wales not

:27:54.:27:56.

being aware of the work he has done. I bet people in Wales don't know

:27:57.:28:00.

about the work he has done. What can we do to market that? We need to be

:28:01.:28:07.

bolder and more confident in promoting ourselves. In the past we

:28:08.:28:10.

have thought - people should know this. But they don't. We have to

:28:11.:28:14.

shout about our successes. Yesterday the top UK 100 scientists pass

:28:15.:28:20.

published. We have two from Cardiff University. And 40 of them were

:28:21.:28:22.

women. Great news on which to end on. Thank

:28:23.:28:27.

you both for coming in. Thank you very much.

:28:28.:28:30.

That's it for this week's programme. We will be back next Wednesday. In

:28:31.:28:34.

the meantime you can get in touch with us by e-mail: And we are on

:28:35.:28:36.

Twitter: Thank you for watching and good

:28:37.:28:42.

night.

:28:43.:28:48.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS