18/11/2015 The Wales Report


18/11/2015

On The Wales Report this week, major changes to the way Welsh pupils are taught are on their way - but do teachers have the right support to implement them?


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Major changes on the way to the curriculum

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in Wales, but are teachers getting enough support to implement them?

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As Paris mourns those killed in the attacks on

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the city last weekend, we ask what can be done to tackle terrorism?

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Should there be more female statues in our towns and cities?

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Good evening and welcome to The Wales Report.

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On tonight's programme - the world's attention this week has been

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on Paris, following the attacks on the French capital on Friday night.

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We'll be discussing what can politicians do to prevent more

:00:45.:00:47.

massacres, with Lord Carlile, a former independent reviewer

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You too can join the conversation tonight on social

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But first, major changes are on the way to Welsh classrooms.

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After the Donaldson Review into the curriculum, the Welsh Government

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has decided to ditch the current system and give teachers far greater

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The profession is broadly supportive of the reforms,

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but unions are warning the Education Minister will have to invest

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in better training and support if these changes are to be a success.

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Welsh schools are on the cusp of great change. Teachers are being

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given more freedom in the classroom. They will be deciding not just how

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to teach, but also what to teach. For the past 15 years Welsh schools

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have spun around in a whirlpool of reform. First league tables were

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abolished, then a dismal performance in league tables -- in exams led to

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government intervention and the publishing of school performance

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data. The Donaldson reforms look like they will give teachers more

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autonomy. Teachers say the Welsh government needs to stick to these

:02:16.:02:20.

reforms for the long-term. I think most headteachers in most

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establishments would tell you that we are bombarded with reform and

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changes, and it can be quite baffling at times to know where the

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emphasis should be. With the Donaldson Review, it is clearly

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something that has direct impact on the quality of children's lives and

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learning, and to a great extent, I welcome that clarity. What we cannot

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have is, in five or six years' time, someone saying we will change

:02:50.:02:53.

direction again and go back. That would knock the stuffing out of the

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education community. In February, Professor Graham Donaldson came to

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this school to launches curriculum review. It was radical. He proposed

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abandoning the National Curriculum in favour of a more proactive

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approach. There will be more creative in lesson content, while

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focusing on the key areas of literacy, numerous ceasefires and

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technology, the arts, and health and well-being. Although the profession

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is positive about the new approach, teachers unions warned there are

:03:32.:03:37.

challenges. One of which is the need to introduce sufficient support to

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teachers to adjust to a very different way of teaching. This is a

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huge change. What teachers will need to deliver this is time for

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training, investment in the sufficiency of teachers to deliver

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it, they will need professional develop into, and timetabled time

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for that training, in order to make it successful. It could think

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teachers to perform well under the new system is important, but there

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is a big question over the ability of Welsh teacher training to do this

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for new entrants. Shortly after the curriculum review was published, a

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different report said the quality of teacher training in Wales was

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falling short of test practice around the UK and internationally.

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The report said the system had deteriorated, and it was at a

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critical turning point. Everyone has concerns about teacher training in

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Wales, and that came out clearly in the furlong report. One thing there

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was it said there was a decline in the quality of teacher training in

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the last few years, and I think the Welsh government took their eye off

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the ball. The minister has said we will have an in-depth shake-up of

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the whole system. We now need to see some concrete detail about how we

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will go forward, because there are many concerns that need to be

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addressed. Poor teacher morale is also flagged up by the unions as a

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potential problem. Funding is another sore point. Teaching unions

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have long complained about Welsh pupils receiving less per head than

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their English counterparts. They feel the government spending squeeze

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could undermine the Donaldson reforms. For too long, we have been

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doing education on the cheap. When England was spending loads of money

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on education, we were not. We have fallen behind, and the next

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government needs to prioritise education, and we need to spend more

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money on our children, as they are the future. The new curriculum is

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already being designed, and the plan is it will be piloted by a group of

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pioneer schools from 2018. In 2021, it will be rolled out to schools

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across Wales. Felicity Evans reporting. Earlier, I

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spoke to the Education Minister, Huw Lewis, in

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the Senedd. The Welsh government has admitted

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taking its eye off the ball when it comes to education, but all of these

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changes coming in now, doesn't that suggest that you didn't just take

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your eye off the ball, you got it completely wrong? No. This is a

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recognition that the world doesn't stand still. What we need is a

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curriculum for our schools, and professional development for our

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teachers, that addresses the needs of the 21st-century. We need to

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equip our young people with the skills they need for a New World. So

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they haven't had those skills? We need to look at a new curriculum

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that addresses things like digital competence, up there with literacy

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and numerous seats in terms of the priority we will place on it. That

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is the world they operate in and those are the skills they need. Have

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you got all of the changes in the right order? The GCSE changes are

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happening before the curriculum? I think it has. In terms of the

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curriculum and the new skills that teachers will need to deliver it,

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everything comes together now in the magical year of 2018, when we have

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teachers that will be skilled up with the new curriculum, and clarity

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about what is to be delivered in the classroom. Will teachers be ready?

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They want to know if they will be ready to deliver this. They say they

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are bombarded with change. Are they? We will have the new system of

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support for teachers being designed and, in part, delivered by teachers.

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This is the new aspect of the way we are operating here in Wales. It will

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be those pioneer schools that look at the new Deal for teachers that

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will design the support packages. So they have not been designed yet? No.

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We are not dictating the way they should be. That is a big difference

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with how it has been done in the past. Teachers will take the lead.

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So if they demand six months off to prepare for the curriculum, will you

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agree? I am sure we will all take a common-sense approach to what ever

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demands that are made. But there are boundaries, aren't there? There are

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always boundaries on time, resources and finance. What is realistic? A

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reliance and a common-sense approach on our professionals to do the very

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best for us and for our young people. It is that extension of

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trust from me to them that marks this out as a different type of

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reform. What is the deadline for this? 2018. I will be tasking those

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new Deal schools, which have just been identified, those pioneer

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schools, with working with schools right across the system between now

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and next July, to scope out exactly what teachers need, in terms of new

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training, time and so on. We start to deliver from the middle of 2016.

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You are very familiar with the curriculum. What you think teachers

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need? We have taken advice internationally on this. The advice

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points to us being in a position to have the curriculum up and running

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in autumn 2018. We know that. What do teachers need, though? Do they

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need time or different skills? They need our trust. They also need to

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operate a wholly new level. What we are looking to is a system where

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initial teacher training takes teachers to a much higher level of

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competence than at the present time. Will they need a four-year degree?

:10:03.:10:07.

It is conceivable. We will be looking at a new course in terms of

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initial teacher training. By 2018? Yes. We will be looking for first

:10:16.:10:19.

delivery of that new teacher training by 2018. What about the

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teachers already imposed? That will be led by the high end near schools

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in terms of relating back to us what is required. This all needs to

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happen at a postgraduate level. That is the level of training we are

:10:35.:10:39.

talking about here, consistently across the board. Teachers are

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already graduates, and their training should be pitched at that

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postgraduate level. As a minister, you say, you have to deliver this by

:10:49.:10:55.

2018. Up to you how you do it? We have advice networks for teachers to

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call on expert advice when they need it, and ourselves as government

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setting a framework around it. What about money. You have said 3 million

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for the initial stage to deliver in the first year. Is that guaranteed?

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I want to see that continue, and I will be working towards that in the

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election campaign, and hopefully in a new Welsh government in May next

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year. Nothing is guaranteed. It all depends on the People's choice. I

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will be campaigning to sustain that support around our teachers, and

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Welsh Labour will be that. To deliver these broad changes,

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presumably you are expecting a big bill from teachers in terms of what

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they want for training. Can you deliver, whatever the cost? I will

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deliver what our system needs in order to get to those goals, that

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new curriculum, a new level of operation in terms of teacher

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professionalism. What is the vision here? The new curriculum, the new

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GCSEs... What is the vision for education in Wales? A self improving

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system. A system that has within itself the means and professionalism

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to drive towards continual improvement. A system that is proud

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of our educational attainment in Wales, but never satisfied with it,

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and a system that doesn't need politicians like me to come in from

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the outside and drive change. That goes up the rankings, with teachers

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attaining better grades? Is there a benchmark kit? What we see across

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high achievers is a communality in terms of the systems we have looked

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to for advice and guidance. A teaching profession, critically,

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that shifts for its self in terms of up-to-date research, operating at a

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very high level of teaching and learning, in terms of knowing and

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understanding what the best looks like, and committing to deliver

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that. As a minister and as a father, can you look every parent and every

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child in the eye and say, I am doing my utmost to deliver the best?

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Everyday. This commitment we have made is the biggest package of

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reforms since 1944. It will set the trend for our children's prospects

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for a generation at least, and a great deal hangs upon it. We have to

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work as a team across the educational workforce in Wales in

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order to make it work. Thank you very much.

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It's been five days since Friday night's deadly attacks in Paris

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A concert hall, a major stadium, restaurants and bars,

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were attacked almost simultaneously, leaving at least 129 people dead

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The attacks have been described by President Francois Hollande

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as an "act of war" organised by the so-called Islamic State

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militant group, and have prompted condemnation the world over.

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But what can be done to tackle terrorism?

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And can we expect similar events here?

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I'm joined now from our Milbank studio by Lord Alex Carlile,

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a former independent reviewer of terrorism laws.

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What can be done immediately here to make us feel safer? The first thing

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is that we must have proper borders for Europe and the Schengen

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agreement is now finished. France has closed its borders, the bridge

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between Sweden and Denmark has been closed. Nobody can go through those

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borders without going through proper security checks. And that will cause

:14:40.:14:46.

some difficulty for innocent travellers, but it is a safe

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precaution to take. The second thing we should do is ensure the Security

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Services in the United Kingdom and elsewhere have the tools they need

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and that means expediting the Investigatory Powers Bill, for at

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least that part of it that requires internet service providers and

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mobile phone companies to retain data for at least 12 months. The

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third thing is ensure that there is top quality co-operation between the

:15:15.:15:19.

best intelligence agencies and some of the other intelligence agencies

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and I think we can do a lot to help the Belgian intelligence services in

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particular become more efficient and effective in preventing terrorism.

:15:32.:15:35.

So you would scrap Schengen and on the Investigatory Powers Bill, David

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Cameron and Theresa May don't want to rush this, they want proper

:15:40.:15:44.

scrutiny, because of civil liberties concerns, you know that rushed

:15:45.:15:51.

legislation isn't always the best. We saw that with control orders that

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had to be scrapped. Well they were scrapped wrongly, they worked well

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and some of the scrapped parts have been reintroduced, particularly

:16:04.:16:07.

forcing people to relocate to live away from those they planned

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terrorist attacks. To the suggestion the Investigatory Powers Bill is

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being rushed that is not correct. We have been talking about the

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Investigatory Powers Bill for the last two years, a parliamentary

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programme lasting over a year was introduced before the Paris events.

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I am and across party group including former Defence Secretary

:16:31.:16:33.

Tom King are of the view that at least the parts of Investigatory

:16:34.:16:38.

Powers Bill that the Security Services need quickly should be

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enacted. Possibly with a sun set clause. Otherwise we are not going

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to have this piece of legislation on the statute back until the end of

:16:49.:16:56.

next year. What about the concern of civil liberties campaigners, Shami

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Chakrabarti said it would be an attack on the security of every man,

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woman and child in our count are. They would monitor everything we do

:17:04.:17:09.

and keep it for a year. That is Twaddle I'm afraid. Shami

:17:10.:17:15.

Chakrabarti has offered absolutely no alternative, if she believes that

:17:16.:17:18.

there is an alternative to the Investigatory Powers Bill, let her

:17:19.:17:25.

show us her alternative. The notion that Security Services agencies are

:17:26.:17:30.

idly going to look at your Amazon account or my credit card

:17:31.:17:35.

transactions is simply an absurdity. They only look at those about whom

:17:36.:17:41.

some suspicion has been raised. And it is time that Shami Chakrabarti

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and liberty simply stopped telling the untruths about what the Security

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Services are doing. She is not here to defend herself, but I was quoting

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her. She often says things without giving people the opportunity to

:17:58.:18:00.

defend themselves, so I don't think you should defend her. Let's look at

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the source of the trouble, Syria. David Cameron seems to be foep

:18:05.:18:10.

Cussing on -- focussing on expediting attacks on Syria, do you

:18:11.:18:16.

want us to bomb Syria? I don't want us to bomb Syria, but I believe

:18:17.:18:24.

until we destroy Isil we will not resolve the situation. So wherever

:18:25.:18:31.

Isil is, we must deal with Isil and deal with them decisively. Does that

:18:32.:18:38.

mean attacking? Yes. Would you join in the offensive led by the French

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and the Americans? Yes and the Russians. It is a sensible offensive

:18:42.:18:46.

and we have involved. The issue is the extents to which we are

:18:47.:18:52.

involved. Are we really going to say Britain is going to put less efforts

:18:53.:19:01.

into this than France? Is your party leader wrong, Tim Farron. Iej I'm

:19:02.:19:10.

not the leader of the Liberal Democrat and not held back by the

:19:11.:19:14.

view of Liberal Democratsches I believe I want is absurd to suggest

:19:15.:19:19.

we can deal with this without destroying Isil. We're not going to

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do it by the use of notelets. Are we safe as we can be in Wales? Wales is

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as staf as any part of -- safe as any part of Europe for a few

:19:32.:19:37.

reasons. One reason is because this for the whole of Wales the Wales

:19:38.:19:46.

extremism unit which is as good as any antiterrorism police unit in

:19:47.:19:50.

Europe. The second thing is it is very difficult to obtain

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Kalashnikovs and other firearms in the United Kingdom. Because we have

:19:54.:19:59.

such strict laws against them. And because we have a border force which

:20:00.:20:04.

is pretty rigorous at the moment in ensuring that people who might be

:20:05.:20:07.

terrorists do not enter the United Kingdom. So we live in a reasonably

:20:08.:20:13.

safe country. But in a perilous world. I want it to remain a

:20:14.:20:19.

reasonably safe country with Security Services is only giving the

:20:20.:20:26.

proportionate tools they need, don't damage civil liberties. Is an attack

:20:27.:20:31.

on the UK inevitable? The threat level is severe so, an attack is

:20:32.:20:39.

highly likely and we have to bear in mind that terrorists tend to go for

:20:40.:20:44.

soft targets. So I fear that the possibility of an attack in Wales is

:20:45.:20:52.

maybe less likely than an attack in London, but you can't say it won't

:20:53.:21:00.

happen. It remains likely. Lord Carlile thank you.

:21:01.:21:04.

Should the achievements of Welsh women get more public recognition?

:21:05.:21:06.

Over the years, men who have contributed to Welsh life

:21:07.:21:09.

and culture have been immortalised with statues - Aneurin Bevan, Owain

:21:10.:21:11.

But there's a considerable lack of women statues in Wales.

:21:12.:21:15.

Guardian Journalist Elena Cresci returned to her home city of Cardiff

:21:16.:21:22.

to hunt for female statues in the capital.

:21:23.:21:33.

If statues could talk they would tell great stories. After all, that

:21:34.:21:42.

is why they're there, to remind us of wonderful Welsh people. Walking

:21:43.:21:47.

around the city I see plenty of stone men and animals. But where are

:21:48.:21:58.

all the women? Aneurin Bevan deserves to stand here. Without him

:21:59.:22:05.

there wouldn't be an NHS. But there were other marvels of medicine.

:22:06.:22:10.

There was our own Florence Nightingale who could stand here too

:22:11.:22:15.

rather than making headlines for being in special measures. But we

:22:16.:22:20.

have some statues of women. Only they're not real. They're anonymous

:22:21.:22:25.

figures with no real identity and little to say. Is that really the

:22:26.:22:31.

message we want to send out? It is almost as if we are short of

:22:32.:22:37.

inspiration. If it is a modern counter part to Gareth Edwards we

:22:38.:22:46.

are after, what about Dame Shirley Bassey or Tanni Grey-Thompson. Here

:22:47.:22:55.

you will David Lloyd George. His daughter Megan, became Wales's first

:22:56.:23:03.

female MP in 1929 at just 27. Tell me she doesn't deserve a statue.

:23:04.:23:08.

City Hall is guarded by stone figures. Inside there are more. The

:23:09.:23:16.

marble home is home to the heroes of Wales. And you will find Boudica. It

:23:17.:23:33.

gives the impression the women's stories are not worth telling. It is

:23:34.:23:37.

so important we don't forget Nair stories. There are plenty of women

:23:38.:23:42.

in Welsh public life making a difference. It is up to them and us

:23:43.:23:46.

to commemorate real women of achievement and put them on a

:23:47.:23:48.

pedestal. I'm joined now by Deidre Beddoe

:23:49.:23:55.

and Emeritus Professor of women's history and Dr Jasmine

:23:56.:23:57.

Donahaye from Swansea University. Why so few women? It is not at all

:23:58.:24:06.

surprising. There is a one word answer to this. That word is

:24:07.:24:18.

patriarchy. It is changing, but all power has been in the hands of men

:24:19.:24:27.

and men commission the statues and they only saw the value of male

:24:28.:24:37.

contribution to society. And I mean why more women in public life, maybe

:24:38.:24:43.

there will be a lead time and in time they will influence decision

:24:44.:24:45.

and more will be commissioned. In the past there hasn't been a woman

:24:46.:24:51.

there championing the cause for female statues. Yes that I true. I

:24:52.:24:56.

hope more women in public life would mean it would result in more public

:24:57.:25:02.

Scottish Conservative sculpture of women. But we are not in the great

:25:03.:25:14.

age of commissioning sculpture. There is diminishing public art. We

:25:15.:25:19.

have seen that with passports and the stamp and back notes. To get

:25:20.:25:26.

women recognised is such a battle. Why do you think that is? I was

:25:27.:25:32.

taken aback by the opposition to women being on the noepts. It seemed

:25:33.:25:41.

-- notes, it seemed an overreaction. We have been so underrepresented and

:25:42.:25:48.

we have owned less of banknotes. It seems churlish to oppose that. #i9d

:25:49.:25:54.

is important to link the two things. The lack of female statues and the

:25:55.:26:01.

lack of female representatives in Parliament. Yet Wales seems to be OK

:26:02.:26:13.

with female representation in politics with 26FMs. Is Wales

:26:14.:26:17.

getting there slowly? We seem to have fallen back a lilt. Initially

:26:18.:26:22.

we had more than 50% in the Assembly. So we have gone back. I

:26:23.:26:26.

think there is a great improvement and obviously there is a lag before

:26:27.:26:34.

that is depicted. But even where women are perhaps in a position to

:26:35.:26:40.

do the commissioning, whether it is visual culture or literature or

:26:41.:26:48.

other domain. It is still challenges F you don't know who the women are

:26:49.:26:54.

you can't depict them. It's easy to blame men. Are we not forceful

:26:55.:26:59.

enough. I don't think it is up to women only to make that change. It

:27:00.:27:06.

is for men too. It is for the entire population to see the breadth of

:27:07.:27:10.

human experience depibgtd. You're right. Wales has a very poor record

:27:11.:27:16.

of having women in Parliament. It starts with Megan Lloyd George in

:27:17.:27:28.

1929. She is on her own until 1950 and then huge spans of time without

:27:29.:27:37.

women. Not a single MP until Ann Clwyd. You mentioned time, this is

:27:38.:27:45.

not the time for commissioning public art. Maybe statues are out of

:27:46.:27:54.

date. Is a blue plaque the future? I hope not. We navigate by sculpture

:27:55.:28:02.

and even if it is sub conscious we take in this woman is on a pedestal,

:28:03.:28:07.

although in this case it is the men. It becomes part of our every day

:28:08.:28:13.

consciousness. If women are in prominent positions and recognised,

:28:14.:28:18.

it filters down and you have to then acknowledge that contribution. Let's

:28:19.:28:23.

give you some cash now and you can have one statue immediately. Who

:28:24.:28:29.

would it be? That is a terrible thing to do to me. Let me take...

:28:30.:28:42.

I'm torn between two. Crongwin the scholar. She was a qualified sea

:28:43.:28:52.

captain and a brilliant lecturer. But maybe more controversial, I

:28:53.:29:02.

admire that larger than life woman Betsy Cadwallader. I hate her name

:29:03.:29:14.

has been tarnished. Wrote a biography of Lily Tobias. I would

:29:15.:29:18.

love to see her recognised. That's it for tonight,

:29:19.:29:21.

we'll be back next week. And if you'd like to be

:29:22.:29:23.

in the audience of a special programme on December 2nd and get

:29:24.:29:26.

the chance to put your questions to The e-mail address is

:29:27.:29:29.

[email protected] or we're on social media

:29:30.:29:32.

the hashtag is thewalesreport. The first illustration

:29:33.:29:34.

shows Hitler and Himmler It became clear that this porcelain

:29:35.:30:09.

was actually made

:30:10.:30:13.

On The Wales Report this week, major changes to the way Welsh pupils are taught are on their way - but do teachers have the right support to implement them? And concerns that Welsh women are being airbrushed out of history. We hear calls for more statues of women in Wales. Presented by Bethan Rhys Roberts.


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