02/12/2015 The Wales Report

With five months to go until the Assembly elections in May,

a studio audience put their questions on the service, the

economy and much more to the First Minister, Labour's Carwyn Jones.

Good evening and welcome to The Wales Report.

You join us tonight for a special programme.

It's been an eventful year in politics and next year is shaping

up to be just as busy with the Assembly elections on the horizon

and a possible in-out referendum on Britain's membership of the EU.

So what are the burning issues that you want to discuss?

Are you happy with the way the way your health service is being run?

Are schools in Wales getting top marks from you?

Is the Welsh economy a source for optimism or concern?

Tonight, we have a studio audience who have

plenty of questions for the man at the helm here in Wales, the First

Remember, you too can have your say on social media.

But first tonight, MPs are currently debating.

That was on whether the UK should join on the bombing of so-called

Islamic State targets in Syria. I would have voted against. I think

the Prime Minister has not made the case for air strikes on their own.

But if you want to bring peace to Syria, you have got to have a plan.

Which ground forces do you support in order to do that? If you do that,

what air strikes do you need? None of that has been done. At the end of

the day, my greatest fear is we will end up with air strikes and the

whole thing will be forgotten about. Nobody will do the work that is

needed for peace and security in Syria. Then needed to be a

statesman-like attitude from the Prime Minister and what did we see?

He said anyone against him was a terrorist sympathiser. Regardless of

how MPs vote tonight, their views should be respected, but I did in

the case has been made. What about your party? You have a leader in you

against military action and yet a man who would like to be Foreign

Secretary for military action. We are in government in Wales. But

there are different views within the Labour Party and the Conservative

Party. Every Conservative MP will back -- will not back military

action. I have not seen anything that will lead to peace and security

in Syria. The debates on military action can carry on.

Now, let's move on to our first topic - the Welsh NHS.

Our first question tonight comes from Chris O'Callghan,

With ever increasing demand on the NHS but only limited resources and

It's a real challenge for governments around the world. Our

health budgeted 46% of our total budget. We spend more on health than

ever before. We have had new bills going up and Aberystwyth, Swansea,

but we know that there is ever demand. We see it in orthopaedics

and A But we are determined to keep the current situation, which is

we spend more than England per head on health and continue to spend what

we need in the health service the people want. Of course there are

pressures and of course there are challenges. But if you look at what

we have done in terms of increasing funding and the numbers of doctors

and nurses, we're in the best position ever in that regard. You

work in health service? I have worked in the NHS for 12 years now.

I have concerns about the cancer care provisions in Wales. When you

look at scanning, we provide very limited services for referral

criteria is wearers NHS England have up to 18 reasons why having a scam.

How do we move ourselves up to parity the NHS England? Any other

points on comparing the health service in Wales and England? Any

other experiences? The gentlemen of the vendor back. I am concerned

about the amount of cancer patients have to move to England to get

reasonable treatment. If you look at what is happening with cancer, you

have a quicker route to treatment in Wales than England and we know that

from our own figures. You get access to approved cancer drugs more

quickly as well. The other point is that England had its Cancer Drugs

Fund and it is disappearing. What we want to do is make sure people had

access to the treatment that would work for them as quickly as

possible. In terms of the issue here, in terms of scanning, we

always look at ways to review the procedures we used to make them more

effective. We do know that when it comes to the urgent route with

cancer treatment and the nonurgent route, it's not a competition but we

are ahead of England. We want to make sure it stays that way. Any

other points from the audience? We be at preventative health care such

as eco-therapy which has been approved around the world to help

people's mental and physical well-being and also save money for

the NHS? We are always looking at ways to encourage preventative

health care. We know that if we can ensure that fewer people smoke, we

will see fewer people with heart disease and strokes further down the

line. We try and get the balance right. It's difficult because we

know that demand was goes up in a deep, orthopaedics and other areas,

but it is important not to lose focus of the need to ensure that

people are in a position where they avoid having serious conditions as

they get older. Can I ask about GP 's surgery? In your 2011 election

pledge, it was to improve access to GB's surgeries but that has actually

gone down and Wales now has fewer GP's surgeries. Access to GPs has

gone up in terms of evening access and weekends. Statistics say they've

gone down. We know more surgeries are open in the evenings than ever

before. The challenge is to ensure consistency across Wales. In

Bridgend, they are open some evenings, an online appointment for

operations and ordering prescriptions, and we need to make

sure that good practices extended to other surgeries. It was 11% in 2013

but down to 7% in 2014. I can only talk from my own GP's surgery. When

I first registered there, they were opened five and a half days a week

and now they are open three. If you are ill on a Tuesday or Wednesday,

you need to go somewhere else or wait until Thursday or Friday, and

in the New Year, the surgery itself will close down. It closes at 4pm as

well. There is no reason for that. They are mainly private contractors

rather than employed by the NHS but there are good examples of surgeries

are opening in the evenings when it is more convenient for people,

people being able to make appointments online and over the

phone. That is being rolled out across Wales and there's no reason

why surgeries can all have that. We'll Wales's share of the extra

money given to the extra health service be ring fenced like in

England? We already spend more than England does and that will continue.

We are absolutely in the position where we will continue to spend more

on health in Wales per head than England doesn't that will continue

in the future. It isn't ring fenced? Effectively, it is, because England

are spending less than we are. We have had ?110 million extra. We know

that prices will go a further so it is a cut in real terms but a chunk

of that money will be used to make sure that we will spend the amount

of money per head the people expect. People will compare us and we will

stay head of England. Gentleman at the end there. On the subject of

funding, it's true I think that the Welsh NHS uses an awful lot of

agency workers. Why not pay your staff a little bit more, recruit

more and not make millionaires out of those running the agencies? We

encourage local health boards to do exactly that. Sometimes, it's not

possible. More and more doctors are working as locums than ever before.

But we want to make sure that the vast majority of staff permanently

employed. Occasionally, agencies will be used, but that's not

something we would want to see the norm. The gentleman in front there.

The staff have the timings of 12 hours for nurses and doctors. How do

you expect them to work the next day, 12 hours again? I work for

eight hours, so the motivation and effort they do is too much and how

will they cope every day? Is this to do with junior doctors? Every

doctors in hospitals. Bear in mind that England is staring down the

barrel of a junior doctor's strike. My point is that they're human

beings. If you hire other doctors, they can facilitate to their

families. There will be occasions when people have to be brought in in

northern to cover perhaps surge in demand. That will be normal within

the health service where that demand surges. I have seen every time in

the hospital... Sometimes, they have to be hospitalised. Every time they

do 12 hours, sometimes they do overnight, 36 hours. Let's go back

to our question. Do you feel that the health service has improved

after 15 years of a Labour government? We are on a turning

point and it could go either way. We need more money for our patients to

get better care. Just once that there is worth bearing in mind, our

budget has gone down by more than ?1 billion in the last four years but

we have managed to keep health spending up. At the end of the day,

we have seen a 10% cut from our budget. Despite all that, we have

managed to keep health spending ahead of England but also, four

years ago, health was 41% of our spending an hour to 46%, so we have

taken difficult decisions despite cuts coming from the Tories. You

also have one health service in special measures and confidence is

at an all-time low. You had a decision last night where you have

got the bosses rolling back on reorganisation. A few years ago, you

said the NHS would collapse about reorganisation. Reorganisation is

not happening in your policy is collapsing. If you look at Betsy, it

is common for this to happen, but it has happened in Wales. We ensured

that it was put under special measures in order to see work done

to get it where we were last night. Let's face it, if the Welsh

government did not take action it did, we would not have seen the

report produced last night and there would not been the opportunity to

continue with consultant led maternity units in Betsy. That has

happened because of the action taken by the Welsh Labour government.

Let's move on to the economy. Our second question tonight

comes from Yahya Pandor. Wales still qualifies to receive

handouts from the EU, there are lots of people on benefits and

empty shops on our high streets. After 15 years of Labour government,

why is Wales so poor? There are some reasons that are

there because of what happened in the 80s, the fact that we lost so

many that time. But if you look at our economic figures, we had the

best foreign direct investment figures, I got investment into

Wales, from Canada, India, in the North, all because of the work we

did. We have also had the most successful job placement scheme in

Europe. We had 17,000 youngsters who had an opportunity of a work

placement and 80% of gone on to other jobs or further and higher

education. That's because we listen to businesses. Businesses were

saying, we would like to take somebody on but we cannot afford the

time or money to train them so we have now a bridge that gap.

The one thing we won't do is what happened in the late 1980s and the

1990s was the government saying to come to Wales because the wage rates

are so low, the lowest in Europe. Those days are long gone. The

investment now is for highly skilled and highly paid jobs. Earnings in

Wales are lower than in Scotland, Northern Ireland and England, why is

that? They are. Some of that is historic but the gap is closing. We

know that. If you look at domestic household income which measures

income according to where people live, that gap has been closing for

a long time. There are challenges to make sure that investment is spread

around Wales and it does not will go to the north-east and the south-east

and if you look at the work that has been done in Swansea there is a

fantastic new campus for college and a railway station and that is all

designed to bring investment into that part of Wales. A few hands up.

Historically you look at the Welsh economy and we have always merged

with Liverpool and Manchester, we can just look at those areas now I

just wish. If you boys were not there, we would be working a lot

harder with them and benefiting from the boom in the south-west of

England and Bristol. More corporation across-the-board is?

That is true, economically that is right and that is why we have

announced plans to work with the Northern Powerhouse in England. It

is normal in other parts of Europe so why should it be different in

Wales? The reality is that if we look at the south-west of England,

it is a competitor for us as well and we have to make sure that people

will come to Wales. We have never had a higher profile at

international level which is why we are seeing the investment. Today I

was opening a new office in Cardiff bringing 700 jobs into Cardiff

because of the work we have done to work with businesses to get those

investments in. What about North Wales? If you look at air bus and

also a Japanese company that we have coming into Deeside. We have

opportunities on angle side -- Anglesey and Lockheed Martin are

working with the college to maximise the opportunities for local people

when the power station is built and comes online. We need an UK

Government to do its bit. What happened to electrification? We were

told the mainline would be electrified by 2018 and now it is

Twenty20 four, and the message that gives out is that Swansea is somehow

the end of the line. Where is the work being done on the tidal

agreement in Swansea Bay which could create thousands of jobs, nothing.

We are doing our bit but we need a UK Government to do its bit as well.

The man at the back. You keep coming back in regard to the economy to

Swansea and Steve 's side, but what about Blaenau Gwent and areas like

that that do not have major towns and cities? If you look at Ebbw

Vale, the new development at the steelworks, we know that Merthyr is

attracting jobs and the general dynamics, we know that they are

looking at Merthyr and other jobs are there as well. Why? Because of

the work that has been done at the heads of the valleys and making our

communities more connected and the work that has been done with

transport. One of the reason is way above is attracting investment is

the fact that we opened up a railway line and made sure that it was more

connected as a town, not just for bringing people into Cardiff but

investment at Ebbw Vale as well. The other thing that is important is

broadband. Broadband in the 21st-century is the equivalent of

railway lines in the 19th century, if you are not connected then you

are not connected with your market. By April 20, 1796 present premises

in Wales will have access to superfast broadband, the market

would never deliver that. We are paying for it to make sure that

wherever you live in Wales you have access to that level of speed. A

feeling the poverty gap in Wales for some people. Any comments on that?

The gap is widening between the cities and the more industrial...

The chap the specs. I was going to say do you think we are attracting

investment and business without subsidy because it is good to be in

Wales or with Welsh government subsidy? The financial support we

give is important but all governments do this. Everybody puts

a financial package on the table and if we did not do it we would be

trumped by everyone else, but it is more than that. People are saying

that they like having a government they can talk to and it is

accessible, they can get decisions because they are taken very quickly.

That is the advantage of our size and having a government based in

Wales. They also say that we have the skills that they need. If you

are a business the financial package is one thing but you have to make

sure that you have the business there to keep the business going and

we find people saying they are happy with the people that they have in

Wales and they like their commitment and their skills and that message is

getting out there. The gentleman there. You mentioned superfast

broadband as a key investment but why did we not look at 4G and five

June rather than putting cables through? You are right about the

cell phone connections but we do not directly control or pay for those.

The companies have said they will extend coverage across Wales but in

other parts it is inexplicable. Anglesey is flat spotted many parts

you cannot get mobile phone reception it does not seem to make

sense to me so they need to invest the money and making sure we get

mobile phone reception as well across Wales. What we did was look

at broadband particularly, the cabling to make sure we had

superfast broadband available for as many premises as possible. Some are

difficult to reach but there will be other solutions for them. It means

that where ever you are in Wales, which of the village of living, you

will have access to the level of broadband speed that is available in

Cardiff. A question from down the front here. It is great and to be

commended that we are getting new jobs into Wales but new jobs means

either new people coming into Wales or it means people moving around

Wales and ultimately we are facing a housing crisis in Wales, so what

will we do about housing these people? You are right to say that

with some businesses they do bring some of their people investment in

time they are replaced with people locally. I give you an example, a

film -- creative industries and film production is really booming at the

moment and they bring their own people in but then they create

opportunities for training for local people and they create jobs locally.

An example I had last week was of a scaffolding company in Merthyr that

is going great guns, providing reading for the film sets. In fact

it does provide jobs for people even though some people have been brought

in originally. You mentioned housing. We know that we have helped

to buy as a scheme that is helping people to buy their own houses and

we're on target to build the houses that said we would build which is

about 10,000. We know, of course, that many of those houses have to be

affordable, things like shared equity schemes are important and

also affordable houses to rent. Those things are important in terms

of the mix. Can I bring you back to the original question which kicked

off in terms of European funding. ?2 billion comes into Wales over six

years or so. Your predecessor said in 2000 that it was a

once-in-a-lifetime chance for Wales and we still qualify, 15 years on.

Are you disappointed or ashamed that we still qualify? I do not want to

qualify again. We want to be in a position where we have less money

and that much is true. What we are seeing in terms of job creation and

investment that is coming in is incredible. I see our young people

are much more likely to setup their own businesses than my generation

ever were. We never lacked the skills in terms of people having the

good ideas but they often lack the confidence to set up their own

businesses and now that is changing and I want to see that change

because I came from a background when I was self-employed before I

came into politics and that is the big change that we are seeing. It is

one thing to bring jobs in but what is important is to ensure that they

are jobs that are well paid and they will stay in Wales and that is what

we have aimed at and that is what we have done in terms of the jobs that

are coming. You paint a pretty rosy picture of the economy here in

Wales. We have a straw poll now, who feels that since devolution the

economy is on the up? One person. Who feels it is perhaps not on the

way up, it is suffering and going down because of devolution? You

would rather go back to pre-devolution anybody? Yes. Let us

hear from you, the gentleman in the leather jacket. You want to go back

to pre-devolution? Definitely. I am from Newport and I am a

Monmouthshire man and we never supported anyway and frankly I think

we got it right. Carwyn Jones is very impressive in what he just said

and if he had just walked into the room and you did not know that we're

in the Senate coming up for 16 years I think it would be very impressed.

The main thing is that we still have an unemployment rate at 1% higher in

Wales than in the rest of the country and it seems to vary from

month to month. We catch up one month and then we go out to sink the

following month, which is rather... It doesn't seem to be a steady ship.

It is up and down, that's true but if you compare where we used to be

which was always way above the UK average, that has been a major

difference. We go out there and we sell Wales. One of the biggest

opportunities we had was when the regional development units went in

England and the competition disappeared and then it has been

easier for us to attract jobs into Wales. If we do not sell Wales, no

one else will do it. But we have never sold Wales, that is the

problem. Where I live you have the top ten cycling, off-road cycling

places in the world and we have not even got a decent hotel up there. It

could employ... There are 80,000 90,000 people from all over

Britain, and we're not talking about people on the breadline comedies are

wealthy people who bring their mountain bikes, some of which are

worth 6000 ?7,000 a time, so these people are not on the breadline, and

we have an area high unemployment and where did the Olympic Miettunen

biking take place? It was in Essex. I just cannot... You have a Labour

government in power at the time and someone in the Wales should have

been banging the table and saying we want the mountain biking, and that

is just an example. You have got... I had a cruise to New York a couple

of years ago and on the first night there were mostly American people on

the ship and the first night had under milk Wood with all Americans.

We do not push that Dylan Thomas tours. We have got Richard Burton

just up the road and all of these things are tourism for Wales but

they never seem to come to anything. We have seen a lot of development

with ponds and the visitor centre and a lot of people have let out

houses in a village for the mountain bikers because a lot of people want

self-catering accommodation so there has been development in that area.

We did have a big event in America for Dylan Thomas's centenary. There

were events in New York with performances across America, so we

did that work. The question I posed you as this, in the last 15 years we

have had the Rugby World Rugby union World Cup, the Champions League

coming, we have had the Ryder Cup matches test and none of those

things would have come come without a Welsh government going into bat

for Wales. Without us doing they would never have come in the first

place. I talk to Uefa and I make sure that the Champions League came

to Cardiff and they fulfil that promise. In years gone by there

would have been no want to come to say they would never have come. A

quick comment from the man behind two is very angry. If you are that

great why did Burberry and Bosch relocate to England? If you really

want to stimulate the Russian economy, are you going to seize

these income tax powers and drop our income tax rates in Wales? We might

come onto that. That is a clothes. There are opportunities with

business rates. Now we have control of business rates, which we did not

have before, one of the things we are looking at is putting together a

competitive package in regards to business rates and that will make a

difference. It was a shame that we did not get air passenger duty.

Scotland has had it and it would make a huge difference to Cardiff

airport and other airports as well and they could become real economic

drivers but we have been denied that for some reason, even though it was

given on a plate to Scotland. Wales' education system is

underperforming in international rankings and progress

on literacy and numeracy is slow. Has your government failed

a generation of schoolchildren? As somebody who has kids in a

comprehensive and came from a comprehensive, I have a real stake

in education. Let us look at education. There needs to be

improvement in the figures and we have been working the schools in

regards to doing that. Education spending is higher per head than in

England and we are building new schools, 150 schools have been built

or refurbished and Wales in the past few years. I was in Aberdare

comprehensive school which was newly built and funded by the local

authority and Welsh government and I was in another high school that has

been built so we are investing that in our children's futures in a way

that just did not happen when I was in school in the 1980s. We have just

had the best GCSE results ever in Wales, just confirmed today, and

they are more recent than the other figures. I think there is a lot to

celebrate and our teachers are doing a great job for us and the one area

we now need to focus on is making sure we improve in the rankings. On

those rankings, you have change the target and he wanted to be in the 20

best performing countries in the world and you change the target

because you were not heading that way.

All the indications we have had, the tests that have taken place, they

all point in the right direction, so I am confident we will improve. It's

important that we have tests. I am a parent and to be able to have tests

in terms of literacy in numerous is important to you can compare how

your child is doing and how they are doing against their peer groups.

That was something that in the past, we didn't get right. To go

back to the question, you said you didn't get it right. You have also

said in the past you have taken your eye off the ball, you posted. Or do

you say to the parents and pupils who were going through the system? I

didn't say we coasted. We took our eye off the ball and I think that's

fair because when testing was replaced by in school assessments, I

don't think those assessments were right. We couldn't work out why we

were outperforming English children and then falling behind them after

14. That was something to do with the fact that the methods of

assessment were not consistent but that has gone now. A importance can

measure where their children are. Let's take a comment from the middle

here and the lady in pink on the end. I don't recognise the system. I

have worked in the sector for 11 years. The last five years have been

one of constant change and redundancies and pay cuts and losing

colleagues in subject areas. It is constantly changing. When will

settle down? And when will we be consulted? Always consulted last

when things have happened not when things have happened not when things

are taking place. I'm about to go into the fold changes to GCSEs and

almost as many years. I am a primary school teacher in Cardiff and I have

no objection to tests but I do have concerns that a lot of emphasis is

put on statistics and league tables. We have got children living in

terrible poverty in the capital city. They can't for breakfast or

lunch. What will we do to support the families to do the parenting so

that parents -- teachers can do the teaching? We have had a cut of 10%

in our budget in some areas of seeing reductions in funding. We

know there have been difficulties. We have a budget statement next week

and we are looking at ways to make sure that F E is in a less difficult

position but it has been hard on the sector. We have not been able to

keep up spending on everything given the fact that our budget has been

cut by a Tory government in London. We don't have league tables. There

were always simplistic comparators. Much better to have a system of

testing where teachers and parents know where children are in terms of

measuring them against a national standard. There is huge pressure on

schools to meet standards when children don't have the basic rights

of being a human being. You are right to point out that emphasis has

to be placed on improving the life chances of children when they

arrive. That is what the foundation phase is there to do. I have

examples of teachers on my part of Wales single, children arrive here

and they can't speak. Had we get around that? We have doubled the

numbers of families who have access to flying start to help parenting

skills to make sure the children arrive school school ready. We have

seen that weather has not happened. With respect, it isn't working. We

are acting as social workers, caregivers, I could list a

horrendous stories, just from this week. I want to be able to give

those children a chance to live and thrive and live to their potential

but they are not even eating. What do you think would help? There needs

to be more support for parents and families that isn't coming through

schools. It needs to be... There needs to be an extension of the

school system so teachers are not doing those jobs as well. I work 70

hours a week. I can't keep going. I appreciate that. It's not your job.

We have got schemes like flying start and we need to make sure they

are effective. But we still have examples of children who come in and

they are already behind. The foundation phase will help them to

catch up but it is still a lot of work. Lots of concerns in education.

I must ask you about last night's BBC Wales investigation. This

revealed a scam at a private college in Cardiff. Are you concerned about

governance and regulation in this instance and specifically, the role

of the government in this? It is an English College with a branch in

Wales. It is a unique case. We have referred it to the police. They will

conduct the investigation is now. There were regulations on the table

anyway in order to further control that, so they were already prepared.

But you are confident you are on it? Yes, that is why we referred it to

the police. There is only one example of this in Wales, so we are

fairly confident this is a unique case and there are regulations

already repaired to be taken forward which was happening anyway to make

sure that any loopholes closed. Let's move on to question number

four. It's about devolution. We have heard a lot of discussion about

existing devolved powers. What powers do you hope for in the next

five years? And what you propose to do if you form the next government?

I would not look to increase income tax. If you reducing contacts, there

is a hidden Welsh government. The Conservatives said they would cut

the higher rate by 5% but the standard rate by 1%. That statement

was made within hours of the statement made by the Chancellor.

You have to assess the things properly. I would like to do more

with business rates. I would love to do a passenger duty. That would be

an enormous boost to the Welsh economy. In terms of powers for the

future, what worries me the moment is there is a bill on the table in

Westminster which would have the effect of reversing the referendum

in 2011. There was a referendum on whether the Assembly should have

lawmaking powers and yesterday, an act came into force in Wales. We

couldn't have done that without those powers. But what we are facing

now is someone trying to reverse the result. That is not democracy, it

can't be. We need to make sure we are treated with the same respect to

Scotland and we are not. We are clear as to who does what we don't

have that. We should sit down and work out what the future of the UK

as a whole is as well. On income tax, there is likely to be a big

issue in the election, you are going to go on as a party, saying, we will

not raise income tax? How would that go down here? Anybody happy to pay

more income tax? Lots of hands going up. Who thinks the First Minister is

right? One. No, more. People are willing to pay more. Why not put

them get more into the coffers? If you put up a high rate, there are

relatively few rate taxpayers compared to the rest of the UK. In

terms of increasing... Putting 1p on the standard rate, it raises about

?70 million. In terms of a budget of ?50 billion, it is a huge amount

more. In the future, what parties will have to look at is looking at

increasing income tax to pay for a specific thing. You don't know when

we will have this power, the funding situation we have still precarious.

Bear in mind that 80% of our funding must all come from the Treasury and

we are funded per head less than Scotland and Northern Ireland. I

don't want is this to become an excuse for the Treasury to say, we

will look at the fact you are underfunded, racial and money.

That's not fair. The question said five years on, so 20 years into

devolution, if you are still First Minister, do you want to say,

devolution has delivered this, what? Confidence. We as a nation had

no confidence at all. We expected to have jobs that were not well paid,

we expected to have not very much, our youngsters did not expect

opportunities but those days are changing. We have a government in

Wales that can sell Wales, that is elected by the people of Wales, that

isn't in a position have someone like John Redwood who stayed one

night in Wales and was trying to govern Wales. We have a democracy

now. If you don't like what I say, you have the opportunity to vote me

out. You would have had no such opportunity if I was Secretary of

State. If you'd like to get in touch with

us about the issues discussed tonight or anything else, email us

or follow us on social media. We'll be back in the New Year, but

until then, thanks for watching.