02/11/2016 The Wales Report


02/11/2016

Bethan Rhys Roberts looks at Wales's housing shortage. Is the Welsh government doing enough to encourage house building in Wales? And what next for Ukip in Wales after Brexit?


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Transcript


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Tonight on The Wales Report, is enough being done to increase

:00:00.:00:00.

With Brexit on the horizon, what next for the party in Wales?

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We speak to Welsh leader Neil Hamilton.

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And the power shift back from Brussels.

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Now that the UK is leaving the European Union, what happens when

:00:18.:00:31.

these powers are returned? What does it mean for Wales and is there a

:00:32.:00:34.

risk that we've bitten off more than we can chew?

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Good evening and welcome to the Wales Report.

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You can join us too on social media tonight - #thewalesreport.

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A secure affordable home is an essential part of life.

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And it seems that providing that here in Wales is proving to be

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While it's predicted that around T2,700 new affordable homes will be

:00:54.:00:57.

Experts say that is just about half the number

:00:58.:01:00.

In a moment, I'll be talking to the Welsh Government minister

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But first, a look at the range of issues he's facing.

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Housing in Wales has changed dramatically in the last few

:01:27.:01:30.

decades. Council housing is virtually a thing of the past. And

:01:31.:01:36.

the rental sector is now provided mainly by housing associations and

:01:37.:01:40.

private landlords. And pressure on the rented sector is increasing

:01:41.:01:43.

because more and more people are struggling to buy their own homes. A

:01:44.:01:51.

216 increase over the last 20 years, which has not been reflected in

:01:52.:01:56.

wages, means that affordable housing has become increasingly less

:01:57.:02:01.

affordable for people in Wales. The knock-on effects on that in the

:02:02.:02:08.

long-term will be one of increasing instability in the market. It will

:02:09.:02:17.

be a fact that people are less likely to invest in their own homes.

:02:18.:02:21.

If you do not own it, you are less likely to spend money back will have

:02:22.:02:26.

impact on the quality of stock. And just as in the rented sector, there

:02:27.:02:29.

has been massive change in the way we build new houses. In 1955, old

:02:30.:02:36.

with a 70% of all new homes were built by the public sector. Now 80%

:02:37.:02:42.

are built by the private sector. Developers have expressed concern

:02:43.:02:46.

that the Welsh Government have made it unviable to build in some parts

:02:47.:02:49.

of Wales through their regulations and extra red tape. Wherever the

:02:50.:02:54.

truth lies, leading figures are stressing they are growing concern.

:02:55.:03:00.

The problem and have is a simple supply and demand. The demand for

:03:01.:03:09.

housing is increasing and the suppliers of keeping up. You have a

:03:10.:03:12.

supply and demand equation that is going to get out of step and what

:03:13.:03:16.

that then does is create pressure on prices. Whether that is in the

:03:17.:03:23.

rented or buying sector, that forces pricing upwards. Which takes it

:03:24.:03:27.

further out of the reach of people who are looking to access the

:03:28.:03:31.

housing market. And there is one further phenomena which is only

:03:32.:03:33.

going to increase pressure on Wales' housing stock. We are all living

:03:34.:03:41.

longer. People are desperately keen to downsize from a family home to a

:03:42.:03:45.

smaller property but inevitably, the smaller properties that are around

:03:46.:03:49.

I'm not really designed for people in old arrays. We need to be

:03:50.:03:52.

thinking quite cleverly about the kind of properties we are creating

:03:53.:03:57.

for people that want to downsize and that creates a family property that

:03:58.:04:02.

is available for people to move at the value chain. It is that value

:04:03.:04:06.

chain of first-time buyers, families then looking to buy their second

:04:07.:04:11.

home, third home, and if those family homes are not being freed

:04:12.:04:14.

because there are not adequate properties for the elderly to think

:04:15.:04:17.

about moving into, effectively the whole chain of properties gets

:04:18.:04:24.

blocked. Housing is a convex issue driven by external market forces as

:04:25.:04:28.

well as government policy. There may be much disagreement about the way

:04:29.:04:34.

forward but most people agree this is one of the most pressing issues

:04:35.:04:42.

on the government 's agenda. It is one of their top issues. My concern

:04:43.:04:53.

is when the was given to the housing, they tended to build

:04:54.:04:58.

affordable housing and not housing overall. We will not be able to meet

:04:59.:05:06.

the Welsh Government target of 20,000 new affordable homes

:05:07.:05:08.

developed over the next five years. Earlier I spoke to the Welsh

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Government secretary Does he recognise that

:05:14.:05:15.

there is a shortage The Welsh Government in the

:05:16.:05:30.

manifesto commitment in launching 20,000 new units, a massive

:05:31.:05:33.

commitment from this government because we recognise there are

:05:34.:05:38.

pressures in the system. And that is your target for the next assembly

:05:39.:05:41.

term, double your previous target. Are you convinced you will deliver

:05:42.:05:46.

on that? The Welsh Government don't build homes. But it does enable

:05:47.:05:49.

other people to do so and our partners deliver last time for us.

:05:50.:06:01.

We were working with the builders and Welsh local government

:06:02.:06:03.

Association and I am convinced that we can do this. You need partners.

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What about some of those big builders who are saying that you're

:06:11.:06:18.

just introducing too much red tape. They do not like the legislation. I

:06:19.:06:22.

am saying there is an opportunity for all to build in Wales. I am

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saying that SMEs are confident they can help us develop this as well.

:06:31.:06:36.

Builders race this issue with me on many occasions. What seems to be

:06:37.:06:41.

negotiable is the profits that national builders mate. I am saying

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what we have to do is if we all believe there is pressure in the

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housing system, we all have to come to the table and give a little bit

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as well. You say you will enable people to build 20,000 affordable

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homes during disassembly gym, and you commissioned research that

:07:02.:07:03.

suggested you needed 12,000 new homes every year in Wales. That is

:07:04.:07:08.

nowhere near your target. -- this assembly term. The figures enabled

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in that report are the figures we recognise. We are not saying that

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20,000 homes are the only homes that will be built in Wales. We are

:07:20.:07:23.

expecting the market to come to the table as well. We recognise that.

:07:24.:07:30.

What's your target overall? The market will lead and the market

:07:31.:07:35.

control most of that force as well. When they build homes, they control

:07:36.:07:37.

when they build, where they go, and how they build that too. I have

:07:38.:07:44.

meetings with the National house-builders and SMEs on a regular

:07:45.:07:45.

basis. I listen to programmes, your

:07:46.:08:02.

programme saying there are pressure points but we need homes across the

:08:03.:08:07.

whole of Wales, not just on the 55 corridor. All in the Cardiff City

:08:08.:08:12.

region. You could be pretty radical and follow your leader in

:08:13.:08:18.

Westminster, Jeremy Corbyn, suggesting building Council homes

:08:19.:08:22.

again. Why not go back to that? We are and I am glad that you have

:08:23.:08:26.

raised the issue. It is a very ambitious policy. You go to... You

:08:27.:08:31.

are more than welcome to come with me to French or Cardiff well we have

:08:32.:08:34.

already started. There are Council homes being built -- French chef. --

:08:35.:08:44.

Flintshire. What are the targets for new council bills? We don't have any

:08:45.:08:49.

talismans. The issue of years but the mixing homes that we are healed

:08:50.:08:54.

to the 20,000 from Help To Buy because all the problems it is

:08:55.:09:00.

renting and then to own, terrestrial problems as we are going to do,

:09:01.:09:04.

council poverty Bill Condon is a mixture of things that we are able

:09:05.:09:10.

to do year to deliver on the 20,000. Shelter released David target

:09:11.:09:13.

recently saying that Wales has the second was poorest housing in the UK

:09:14.:09:16.

outside London. You can be proud of that at 16, 17 years. Indeed. The

:09:17.:09:26.

stock and housing supplies amenities seminar troubles. Here in Wales and

:09:27.:09:29.

we are making investments in our programme. That is something I would

:09:30.:09:36.

be a the homes schemes, how we built another create new properties from

:09:37.:09:40.

the appeals programmes, how would we built another create new properties

:09:41.:09:42.

from the appeals programmes, hardly a group of disrupted their steam and

:09:43.:09:46.

the Alves scheme which is very stressful. And long-term agenda is I

:09:47.:09:50.

don't have a finance as soon to a deliver on some of these long-term

:09:51.:09:53.

proposals here now. They through austerity control by the UK

:09:54.:09:57.

Government. Our budget has shrunk by billions of pounds and therefore we

:09:58.:10:02.

have to cut our cloth accordingly but what is important is one of our

:10:03.:10:07.

main key priorities is good in the 20,000 units for people of Wales and

:10:08.:10:10.

mask when ambitious but I'm sure we can do it that with our partners.

:10:11.:10:15.

Resignations, in-fighting, physical at times, and a second

:10:16.:10:18.

Ukip are a party at each other's throats.

:10:19.:10:21.

Wales is no different - Ukip are down an AM in the Assembly

:10:22.:10:25.

after a clash between Neil Hamilton and the former leader of the party

:10:26.:10:28.

The situation is so bad, one of the leadership candidates,

:10:29.:10:33.

MEP Paul Nutall, says the fighting in Wales must stop if the party

:10:34.:10:36.

Before we hear from the party's leader in Wales Neil Hamilton,

:10:37.:10:40.

here's a quick re-cap of Ukip's turbulent year.

:10:41.:10:56.

Not long ago, it looked like tiny 16 was going to be Ukip Cor. In Mays

:10:57.:11:03.

assembly election, you can change the face of world politics and 17

:11:04.:11:11.

seats in the Senedd. But then things started to unravel. Claims the party

:11:12.:11:14.

was riddled with factions and personal animosity. First there was

:11:15.:11:22.

Neil Hamilton versus Nathan Deal. Days after taking to their biggest

:11:23.:11:27.

electoral success in Wales, Nathan Gill was beaten by Neil Hamilton in

:11:28.:11:30.

the vote for the leadership of the assembly group. In August, he left

:11:31.:11:36.

the group to sit as an independent, citing infighting. Neil Hamilton

:11:37.:11:43.

seemed pleased. Given that he's a part-time Assembly Member and we

:11:44.:11:45.

don't see much of him, in practical terms, it is not going to make a

:11:46.:11:49.

great difference. So seven became six in the assembly. But at least

:11:50.:11:54.

they had a leader. Essentially, Diane James was elected to succeed

:11:55.:12:00.

Nigel Farage. She left after 18 days in the job. The infighting turned

:12:01.:12:06.

physical. So another week, another leadership contest, and the turmoil

:12:07.:12:10.

of Ukip continues to delight the satirists.

:12:11.:12:14.

So what exactly is the party for now?

:12:15.:12:15.

Joining me is Neil Hamilton, the leader of Ukip in Wales.

:12:16.:12:24.

Are you ashamed and embarrassed by the state of your party? Not at all.

:12:25.:12:32.

Ukip is a vibrant, red-blooded party. It's no secret that there are

:12:33.:12:37.

big personalities who've fallen out with each other, but that's no

:12:38.:12:43.

different to any other party. And it is about personality rather than

:12:44.:12:49.

political policy? This is about grown men in suits bickering? It's

:12:50.:12:53.

not bickering. There is a leadership contest going on at the moment and

:12:54.:12:59.

we have four or five candidates. If that is bickering, that is

:13:00.:13:04.

democracy. Let's look at the state of the party in Wales. The former

:13:05.:13:08.

leader, Nathan Gill - when did you last speak to him? Not for some

:13:09.:13:14.

time. That's not important. He decided to leave our group. It's all

:13:15.:13:26.

a bit childish. It is. You don't get on with Nathan Gill? I got on with

:13:27.:13:29.

him well, but he couldn't cope with the fact that the majority of the

:13:30.:13:32.

group preferred to have me as leader rather than him. He didn't like the

:13:33.:13:38.

result of a democratic ballot. He was elected as a Ukip AM, and I

:13:39.:13:44.

would like him to be back as a Ukip AM, but on the basis that he is a

:13:45.:13:49.

full-time member of this place. If he gave up Brussels, you would

:13:50.:13:52.

welcome him back, but while he remains there, he's out? It is a

:13:53.:13:58.

decision for the group, not just me. You asked me about my personal

:13:59.:14:04.

preference. I want Ukip here to be as big as possible. Everyone who is

:14:05.:14:08.

in it has to be a team player. You can't have a tantrum when you don't

:14:09.:14:13.

get what you want. Are you a team player? Very much so. You an backing

:14:14.:14:21.

Paul Nuttall for the leadership. He has said the situation in Wales is

:14:22.:14:25.

untenable and needs to be sorted out. He has said that you and Mr

:14:26.:14:31.

Gill need to kiss and make up. Will that happen? That is rather a

:14:32.:14:36.

gruesome picture! Nevertheless, I know what you mean. I have said that

:14:37.:14:43.

if Nathan is prepared to be a team player, we will consider allowing

:14:44.:14:48.

him back in the group. But if he will not accept the democratic

:14:49.:14:51.

decisions of the group, I cannot see how he can be a member of the team.

:14:52.:14:58.

Tell us about the ideological differences that are ripping Ukip

:14:59.:15:02.

apart? We know the personalities. You don't get on with Nigel Farage

:15:03.:15:08.

or Nathan Gill. But just explain to us why Ukip is divided in terms of

:15:09.:15:13.

its future direction? I don't think it is divided on policy issues at

:15:14.:15:18.

all. We are determined that Britain should leave the European Union, and

:15:19.:15:25.

we want a free trade deal to follow. In terms of domestic policy, we have

:15:26.:15:31.

a whole range of policy positions, which are radically different to any

:15:32.:15:35.

of the other major parties. The big problem is that you had a dream, to

:15:36.:15:41.

leave the EU. That is going to happen. Since that dream has now

:15:42.:15:47.

gone, and been delivered, you have imploded, and you have no purpose.

:15:48.:15:55.

Ukip has not imploded. We have had some spectacular fallings out, and

:15:56.:15:58.

that's with a small number of people at the top of the party, some of

:15:59.:16:02.

whom have now left. Nathan Gill has resigned from the group at the

:16:03.:16:08.

Senedd here in Cardiff. These individuals are not representative

:16:09.:16:12.

of the National party. Nathan Gill was one out of seven people elected

:16:13.:16:17.

in assembly here. The rest of us are getting on with our day job. What

:16:18.:16:22.

are you delivering for the people of Wales, who put you hear? What

:16:23.:16:28.

difference are you making? You said you would shake this place up. What

:16:29.:16:33.

have you done in terms of policy? After vilifying us for many years,

:16:34.:16:38.

because we have been sceptics about the craze for man-made global

:16:39.:16:42.

warming, today the Welsh government has slashed its government for

:16:43.:16:46.

climate change capital projects by a third. This is something we have

:16:47.:16:52.

been laughed at about, for saying that it is a waste of money and is

:16:53.:16:58.

increasing poverty amongst the most vulnerable people in Wales, because

:16:59.:17:03.

it is all financed out of the green taxes, which people cannot afford to

:17:04.:17:09.

pay if they are low income. What difference are you making? We are

:17:10.:17:13.

the only party who wants to democratise the NHS. If we become

:17:14.:17:18.

the government of Wales, that is the model we shall introduce. Sadly,

:17:19.:17:23.

there isn't an election for another four and a half years. Many people

:17:24.:17:29.

in Wales turned to you because you offered something different. You

:17:30.:17:32.

promised to shake things up, that you would not be establishment

:17:33.:17:36.

politicians, that you would play by different rules. But for out of six

:17:37.:17:43.

of you employ family members - does that send out a message that you are

:17:44.:17:47.

different? Of course, there is nothing wrong with that. If you look

:17:48.:17:51.

at the position in other parties, lots of them do as well. In the case

:17:52.:17:57.

of family members, it is the assembly responsible for

:17:58.:18:02.

appointments, not the AMs. They have to go through a process carried out

:18:03.:18:06.

by the HR department of the assembly. I played no part in the

:18:07.:18:12.

appointment of my wife as my PA and diary secretary. She does have 26

:18:13.:18:16.

years of experience in the House of Commons to fall back on, and works

:18:17.:18:22.

24/7, because it is part of our pillow talk as well. What about the

:18:23.:18:28.

fact that you do not live in Wales. Have you got plans to move here? I

:18:29.:18:36.

live in Cardiff for four days a week, because this is where the

:18:37.:18:42.

assembly is based. It meets for 35 weeks a year. I represent 75% of the

:18:43.:18:48.

Welsh landmass, all the way from Carmarthen to Pembroke, to Hay on

:18:49.:18:55.

Wye. I am out in my region on other days of the week. I live in my

:18:56.:19:00.

wife's house when I have some leisure moments, which happens to be

:19:01.:19:07.

an hour from Cardiff. I am just thinking of perception, because your

:19:08.:19:10.

main residence isn't in Wales. Is that sending the right message? I am

:19:11.:19:17.

100% a member of this place, and I am delivering in terms of putting

:19:18.:19:22.

Ukip on the political map of Wales. I don't think anybody will say I

:19:23.:19:27.

have not made an impact on this place, and Ukip has not made an

:19:28.:19:31.

impact on Wales politically. Thank you.

:19:32.:19:34.

What happens when powers currently held in the European Union

:19:35.:19:37.

Will some of them come straight to Wales, or will

:19:38.:19:41.

Dr Rachel Minto - a newly appointed Brexit expert

:19:42.:19:44.

at the Wales Governance Centre - thinks there are complications that

:19:45.:19:47.

She says there are serious risks that Wales could end up losing

:19:48.:19:52.

Dr Minto has paid a visit to Blaenau Gwent, the area which saw

:19:53.:19:57.

the strongest leave vote in Wales, to consider the implications.

:19:58.:20:12.

National sovereignty. The authority of the UK to govern itself. This was

:20:13.:20:20.

one of the major issues in the EU referendum, and in places that voted

:20:21.:20:25.

strongly to leave, like here in Blaenau Gwent, many people don't

:20:26.:20:29.

like the idea of European institutions taking power away from

:20:30.:20:34.

the UK, or even the idea of the UK having to comply with decisions

:20:35.:20:39.

taken at EU level. So now that the UK is leaving the EU, what happens

:20:40.:20:43.

when these powers are returned? What does it mean for Wales? Is there a

:20:44.:20:49.

risk we have bitten off more then we can chew. It is important to

:20:50.:20:54.

remember that the process of devolution in Wales has unfolded

:20:55.:21:00.

within the context of EU membership. The first successful referendum on

:21:01.:21:05.

Welsh devolution took place in 1997, two decades after the UK joined what

:21:06.:21:12.

was then the European Economic Community. Some policy areas

:21:13.:21:17.

devolved to Wales, like agriculture, and are heavily Europeanised. That

:21:18.:21:25.

means that decisions taken in Cardiff are constrained within an EU

:21:26.:21:29.

framework. When that is lifted, Wales will have greater freedom when

:21:30.:21:32.

exercising its powers in these devolved areas, or when you press --

:21:33.:21:40.

if you prefer, Inc about it as powers being returned from the EU

:21:41.:21:45.

back to Wales. What is the problem? There are three big issues to

:21:46.:21:49.

address when thinking about the return of power to Wales. Firstly,

:21:50.:21:55.

resources. It will be important to ensure there is enough scope for the

:21:56.:22:00.

institutions of Wales to absorb these new policy-making

:22:01.:22:04.

responsibilities. Does Wales have the expertise, civil servants and

:22:05.:22:10.

funding to take it on? Secondly, policy coordination. The Wales of

:22:11.:22:14.

Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and England have become increasingly

:22:15.:22:20.

different. The EU framework is able to smooth over these differences.

:22:21.:22:25.

When that has gone, we will need to think about new ways to coordinate

:22:26.:22:32.

policy across the four nations. Thirdly, re-centralisation. When

:22:33.:22:37.

considering how different the four nations' laws do become, it could be

:22:38.:22:42.

that we see moves from the UK Government to try to bring powers

:22:43.:22:47.

back to London. The potential for this has been strongly resisted by

:22:48.:22:54.

policy in Wales, but in the face of such uncertainty, returning powers

:22:55.:22:57.

to London rather than Wales could be seen by some as the safer option. In

:22:58.:23:03.

uncertain times, Wales will have to defend the powers it has, or face

:23:04.:23:09.

losing them. Wales will need to make sure that its institutions have the

:23:10.:23:14.

resources and expertise to take on new powers. Failure to do this could

:23:15.:23:20.

result in the country's ability to govern itself taking several steps

:23:21.:23:26.

backwards. Dr Rachel Minto from the Wales

:23:27.:23:29.

Governance Centre. I am joined now by Labour AM and format MEP Eluned

:23:30.:23:35.

Morgan. What sort of powers are we talking about here when we are

:23:36.:23:40.

talking about powers coming directly from Brussels to Wales? There are

:23:41.:23:49.

Welsh powers, that we have absolute responsibility for. In particular,

:23:50.:23:53.

agriculture, fisheries and environment. To give you some

:23:54.:23:57.

examples, the extent to which our factories are allowed to pollute is

:23:58.:24:03.

regulated by the European Union. That may stop, so we may potentially

:24:04.:24:07.

have to put our own regulation in place. The number of fish you are

:24:08.:24:13.

allowed to take out of the sea is regulated by Europe, and that will

:24:14.:24:19.

change. Tagging of sheep and cattle is the European law as well. Would

:24:20.:24:26.

those powers automatically come straight to Cardiff, to Edinburgh,

:24:27.:24:30.

or will they go via Westminster? These are our powers. There is no

:24:31.:24:37.

question about that. If the government wants to take that on as

:24:38.:24:42.

a fight on top of the chaos they have already caused and is going to

:24:43.:24:46.

happen as a result of Brexit, they will have a fight with the 27

:24:47.:24:51.

countries of the EU and the home nations as well. My guess is they

:24:52.:24:56.

will be biting off more than they can chew if they start to say they

:24:57.:25:00.

will centralise those powers as well. So we have not seen the great

:25:01.:25:08.

repeal bill yet. If the powers do not come directly to Cardiff, will

:25:09.:25:13.

you kick up a big stink? No question. These are our powers. We

:25:14.:25:18.

have effectively pooled those powers with the EU. We may say that we do

:25:19.:25:26.

need a UK system, and we may determine later that we may want to

:25:27.:25:33.

pull that Southern tray at UK level, but it is our power, and we may

:25:34.:25:36.

determine that we want to share that power. That is a lot of power coming

:25:37.:25:45.

back to Cardiff. What about the resources, the funding and the

:25:46.:25:48.

people to deal with those new powers coming in? There's a lot of issues.

:25:49.:25:54.

Firstly, resources. There is a real problem. At the moment we get over

:25:55.:26:01.

?400 million from Europe directly into Wales. We need that money to

:26:02.:26:07.

keep coming. There is I direct subsidy that goes to our farmers. We

:26:08.:26:13.

need that money to be coughed up, or we will be in serious trouble. In

:26:14.:26:18.

terms of resources, the mechanisms for paying people are already in

:26:19.:26:23.

Wales. They cannot do that at Westminster because they do not have

:26:24.:26:28.

the capacity. This is where the capacity exists. Policy-making is

:26:29.:26:35.

different, and that is an area where we may need to beef up our

:26:36.:26:38.

expertise. You want these powers directly in Wales so that you can

:26:39.:26:46.

vary them in the UK? I don't think we know yet. The first issue is the

:26:47.:26:52.

principle that they are our powers. What we do with them then... I think

:26:53.:26:56.

it will be a strange situation within the UK if we had different

:26:57.:27:02.

roles across the UK, because that might stop us from trading within

:27:03.:27:08.

the UK even, which would be a ridiculous system. So we will

:27:09.:27:12.

probably need to decide to work together across the UK. The First

:27:13.:27:17.

Minister mentioned in the Senate this week that the EU directives

:27:18.:27:23.

will be repatriated. But he said, maybe we will stick to them. For all

:27:24.:27:30.

the people in Wales who voted to leave, that is exactly why they

:27:31.:27:35.

wanted to leave. They don't want the red tape from Brussels. If you as a

:27:36.:27:40.

government decide to stick to some of the European laws because they

:27:41.:27:45.

are quite handy and suit us, isn't that showing disrespect to the

:27:46.:27:50.

people who wanted to leave the EU? No, because I don't think people who

:27:51.:27:55.

voted to leave voted for less regulation in terms of having

:27:56.:28:02.

cleaner air. That is a good law, about pollution. Most EU law is

:28:03.:28:09.

good, and people are going to find that out increasingly, that actually

:28:10.:28:14.

it was very helpful, especially in relation to buying and selling

:28:15.:28:20.

across the EU. It is no secret that you were a big remainer. The Welsh

:28:21.:28:25.

government and Carwyn Jones were very disappointed with the boat.

:28:26.:28:32.

RUSI over that yet? Are you more up beat with the result? I will never

:28:33.:28:40.

get over the disappointment of the vote, I don't think. But I think we

:28:41.:28:45.

need to accept it. We need to accept that we are going to leave the EU.

:28:46.:28:50.

What will that relationship looked like in the future? What ever the

:28:51.:28:57.

relationship will be, it cannot be one that Hamas Wales economically,

:28:58.:29:01.

and that is why I think we should stick with the single market. --

:29:02.:29:04.

that Hamas Wales economically. If you'd like to get in touch

:29:05.:29:07.

with us, you can email us at [email protected],

:29:08.:29:12.

or follow us on social media, where the discussion

:29:13.:29:14.

continues, #TheWalesReport.

:29:15.:29:16.

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