Browse content similar to 09/06/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, the Grand Prix season reaches the This Week studio. | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
Cameron slums on the brakes for yet more U-turns, is the coalition on | :00:29. | :00:39. | |
:00:39. | :00:42. | ||
the skids? The Daily Mirror's Kevin Maguire tries to keep up. As one | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
new university plans to drive off in a new direction, with fees of | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
�18,000 a year, writer and education campaigner Toby Young | :00:50. | :00:57. | |
gets behind the wheel. Private, Ivy League style colleges could be the | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
solution to the funding crisis in higher education. Is life getting | :01:04. | :01:11. | |
too racy for young girls? The wife of the Speaker, Sally Bercow, | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
always the chequered flag. cannot just look to the States, to | :01:17. | :01:27. | |
:01:27. | :01:40. | ||
tackle this problem, parents need Evening all. Welcome to This Week, | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
bringing up the political rear, as ever. Say what you like about this | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
government, they know how to exceed expectations. Just when you think | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
they could not come up with anything crazier than putting Ken | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
Clarke in charge of prison policy, they surpassed themselves. Their | :01:57. | :02:07. | |
:02:07. | :02:10. | ||
latest brainwave, NHS reorganisation. What are my | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
blathering on about? Well, I will tell you, the mind bothering idea | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
put forward by Theresa May as part of her so-called prevent anti- | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
terrorism strategy. Apparently, the NHS is not delivering what it was | :02:23. | :02:31. | |
set up to do. Apparently, doctors and nurses are not just there to | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
heal the sick, no, they're critical partners, her words, in the fight | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
against terror. They can help protect people from radicalisation. | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
It is no longer enough for your doctor to ask, where does it hurt? | :02:48. | :02:57. | |
In future, they will be asking, who do you want to hurt? Speaking of | :02:57. | :03:02. | |
people the state should be keeping an eye on, I'm joined tonight by | :03:02. | :03:10. | |
two men who both deserve to see the inside of the Tower of London. I | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
speak of course of Michael Portillo and Alastair Campbell. Good evening, | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
gentlemen. Michael, your moment of the week... Some soldiers, who have | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
been at war in Afghanistan, have been carrying video cameras on | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
their helmets and making films of the wars. On BBC Three a couple of | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
nights ago, they showed some footage from 2007, and there was an | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
incredibly moving passage in which a platoon is deployed against the | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
Taliban, in a firefight, and one of them gets shot, as it turns out, | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
fatally, and they try to rescue him. The immediacy of the war really | :03:49. | :03:57. | |
came home to me. The confusion of battle. Their enthusiasm for battle, | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
the chaos of trying to deal with a casualty. Their affection for the | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
boy who fell and died. Everything is there. It was on BBC Three, | :04:08. | :04:14. | |
forgive me, why was it will be bought three? -- why was it on BBC | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
Three? It increased my understanding of war tenfold. | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
agree, it was an extraordinary piece of film. Your moment? There | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
have been a lot this week. To pick up one, they think it was the | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
exchange yesterday between David Cameron and Tom Watson on phone | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
hacking. May be inadvertently, David Cameron has taken it into a | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
whole new arena, where the activities of other newspapers are | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
now very much could be part of the story. And since that exchange, I | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
subsequently discovered that I have seen a lot of invoices relating to | :04:51. | :05:01. | |
:05:01. | :05:03. | ||
myself in this regard. Being paid by my old newspaper, the Mirror, to | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
dig up whatever it is. We are talking about quite big sums of | :05:06. | :05:14. | |
money. When you see the volume of money that was going out from the | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
newspapers to this private investigator, who was involved in | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
the murder trial, as you know, but I thought it was interesting, it | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
was a very important moment, and people say that PMQs does not | :05:25. | :05:35. | |
matter, but I thought Tom Watson got Cameron to say things... | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
Cameron probably wants this to go away, I would have thought. But I | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
think he has a slightly opened the floodgates on it. There was another | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
moment which happened tonight, the news of these amazing memos which | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
the Telegraph is publishing tomorrow, from Mr Brown and Ed | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
Balls, showing that within days of the terrorist attack in London, on | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
the Underground, that Gordon Brown and his allies, including Ed Balls | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
and Mr Miliband, had begun a brutal campaign to get rid of Tony Blair | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
as Prime Minister, what you make of that? It is true, I walked into the | :06:14. | :06:21. | |
building tonight, and you have thrown these things at me. I was | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
involved, I came back, having left in 2003, and helped to put Tony and | :06:26. | :06:33. | |
Gordon together. We did win! There was also involved a little bit | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
beyond that in trying to keep them working together. I'm not totally | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
surprised by seeing this, because I think Gordon did feel fairly soon | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
into that third term that it was about time Tony started signalling | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
when he might leave. I think the most interesting thing for me, the | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
one I think I have seen before, is Tony basically same to Gordon, I | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
will help you or I can, but I have just been elected for a third term, | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
and I have got a reform agenda, and I want or support. But Mr Brown's | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
reply to that, he scribbles in the margins, and you used to scold | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
people like me for making too much of this... Not by 2005, I didn't. | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
He described the words of Mr Blair as a shallow, inconsistent and | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
muddled. Which he was not, he was not any of those things, he pretty | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
much knew most of the time what he was up to. Mr Balls, who was | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
involved in most of this, and we have got handwritten memos from him, | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
has previously insisted people like me that he has never been involved | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
in attempts to undermine colleagues, including Mr Blair - is that now | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
sustainable position? If you look at some of them, they look fairly | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
ordinary, it is a political operation. I have always said about | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
Gordon, the ambition to become Prime Minister, seeing nothing | :07:59. | :08:09. | |
:08:09. | :08:10. | ||
wrong with that. We were joking about Michael... I don't remember. | :08:10. | :08:17. | |
You do. Mr Brown orders Mr Balls to take a bluetongue approach to | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
cleanse the Labour Party of Mr Blair's influence. Well, if that is | :08:21. | :08:31. | |
accurate, then it was not a terribly wise thing to say. I'm not | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
pretending the relationship between the two of the was hunky-dory, it | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
wasn't. However, the reason why I went back to help Gordon in 2010 | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
was because together, they did achieve issue demand. At times the | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
relationship was really bad, this was clearly one of those times. | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
didn't we get this in your diaries? You got quite a bit, actually. | :08:53. | :09:00. | |
sense that it. A I did, I was straightforward about that. Thanks | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
for the plug, there is another one coming out on July 7th. There is | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
quite a lot of it. But even despite all of that, when it was bad, we | :09:09. | :09:19. | |
:09:19. | :09:19. | ||
still got a helluva lot then. hated and despised Blair, it is | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
clear. At times, he had such a negative view, he was so clear | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
about his own ambition to be Prime Minister that sometimes, I think he | :09:31. | :09:40. | |
underestimated just how talented Tony was, and how strong he was. | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
The haunting question is, particularly in the latter years, | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
how much more could Tony have done if he had not been blocked? Let's | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
leave that hanging in the air, because we need to move on. Most | :09:57. | :10:07. | |
:10:07. | :10:11. | ||
universities are hotbeds of dissent. If there is one thing arts students | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
cannot handle, apart from basic mental arithmetic, it is big | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
business. So, the news this week of plans to open a private university | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
funded by investors rather than the state was greeted with fury from | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
students and arts academics. A handful of protesters went to throw | :10:29. | :10:39. | |
:10:39. | :10:40. | ||
smoke bombs at the cuddly Nafti academic masterminding the project. | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
Writer and campaigner Toby Young thinks private education is worth | :10:45. | :10:55. | |
:10:55. | :11:05. | ||
fighting for. Here is his call to arms. AC Grayling Bundled plans to | :11:05. | :11:13. | |
set up a private university of humanities, but he was told, he had | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
no right to speak by one group. Public education is the last | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
redoubt of the Progressive Left. They will stop at nothing to defend | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
the state's position as a monopoly provider. They were particularly | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
incensed by the professor, because he used to be one of them. But now, | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
they will not rest until they have bullied him into denouncing his | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
radical ideas. Is that the Archbishop of Canterbury? In | :11:41. | :11:51. | |
:11:51. | :11:56. | ||
The professor is proposing to charge students �18,000 a year, | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
enabling his opponents to brand the New college of the humanities | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
socially exclusive. But the high fees will allow the college to | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
subsidise poorer students, in some cases of in them 100% bursaries, a | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
system which works well in America, giving children from low-income | :12:13. | :12:21. | |
families access to higher education. As a founder of the west London | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
free school, I have to put up with daily attacks from the | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
stormtroopers of the hard left. They do not care about helping the | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
poor gain access to good schools or universities. If you're setting | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
yourself up as an independent provider, free of state control, | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
then you are the enemy and you must be stopped. Welcome to the fight, | :12:40. | :12:49. | |
Professor Grayling. That was Toby Young playing | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
soldiers at the national Army museum in central London. He joins | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
us now. Welcome back to the programme. First of all, Alastair, | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
you were a celebrity teacher in Jamie's Dream School, so there -- | :13:05. | :13:15. | |
:13:15. | :13:17. | ||
to this must be right up your Not really. Teaching is really, | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
really, really lard. I saw that. was voted the best by the kids, but | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
I thought it is not the job for amateurs. I think that this new | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
university it's got a slightly odd feel to it to me. The guys who have | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
made themselves very well known in their own field and they come along | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
and I think the other thing - and they say they can give this great | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
course and all this money and so on. It takes a long, long time to | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
establish a reputation as an educational establishment. The | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
second thing, it is slightly taking us off the main point, which is the | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
80% cuts in teaching grants. It's probably what is making them think | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
there's this market opportunity opening for them now. I think we | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
are talking about the 80% cuts about a potential disaster for | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
universities that we should and they should be fighting to protect | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
and support. Do you think, Michael, it's part of a movement which some | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
would like to see, to a more morn- style higher education system, | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
where in addition to the state- funded universities, which there | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
are many in America and nearly all in this country, there are private- | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
higher education institutions? Absolutely. I think Alistair is | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
taking it too literally. The new future is that places like Oxford | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
and Cambridge I think have to go private. They have to put | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
themselves beyond the reach of the state. Why is that? It's because | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
the state will suffocate them. It's because the state won't like them | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
to charge enough money and then the state will have all sorts of social | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
engineering agendas, which will compromise their academic | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
excellence and it is really important nationally, because it is | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
important to us that we should have the outstanding educational | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
institutions in country. Unfortunately, not the outstanding | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
ones, because the American ones are better, but we need to get back on | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
to the track. They have potential to be independent and private. They | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
have the potential to be massively endowed, which is the pod elon | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
which the American universities are funded. They try to do now, but | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
they don't appear to be able to do it. If you have that, cue provide | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
lots of bursaries so you overcome that social problem. You should | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
have a needs blinds policy. You should not know the background of | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
the students on deciding whether to let them in. I agree. When you have | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
a $20 billion endowment then you have do that. I understand. Toby, | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
this isn't going to be anything like this, but a Swiss finishing | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
school in the middle of London for rich kids that couldn't get into | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
Oxford or Cambridge? I don't think that's particularly fair. They have | :16:03. | :16:10. | |
an outstanding rota of professors. How many do you think Neil Ferguson | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
will give in between teaching at Harvard and New York and lecturing | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
to Goldman Sachs? Bearing in mind 220,000 university applicants | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
aren't going to get places this year. If you allow private | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
providers to enter the sector you'll increase the number of | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
places and give education to the people who need it. Students should | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
be backing this. Only if you can afford �18,000 a year. It's going | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
to be, as you say, means blind and about 25% of the places will be | :16:41. | :16:49. | |
subsidised so not everyone who goes will have to afford that. 75% are | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
paying �54,000 for an education when most students are up in arms | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
that they might pay �9,000. If you increase the number of places by | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
breaking the monopoly of the state then you'll increase supply and the | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
prices will go down, which is why students should be backing this. | :17:06. | :17:14. | |
you think an eng-lit degree is really worth �54,000, plus living | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
expenses? I could see becoming an engineer might be worth �54,000. | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
There will be a market. If people want to buy, why not? Can there be | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
any harm in it, Alistair? Well, maybe there's not any harm, but | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
going back to the earlier point, I think I just worry that we are | :17:33. | :17:40. | |
slightly looking at this kind of group abdemic celebs who are -- | :17:40. | :17:47. | |
academic celebs who are off going around, but I worry - You have to | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
put in three hours in the Dream School. Slightly more than that. I | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
was there and you weren't. The point is I think - I'm amazed that | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
the 80% cut has not had more debate and coverage, because that is what | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
will devastate the future of universities and I think these guys | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
should be thinking about that, because I don't buy the line that | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
if you go down the route that Toby is talking about that you'll get | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
the sort of increased access for poorer kids into the universities. | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
I think we are going in the opposite directions. I don't think | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
people should be terrified about free choice. This is a market thing. | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
That is the point. Some someone wants to spent 54,000. How many | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
people can. If somebody decides that, that is sending a signal and | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
telling you that some people believe this institution is | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
offering something that even Oxford and Cambridge at half the price are | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
not offering. I think they'll struggle. Maybe they will. If they | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
go out and pay that money then there will be a really important | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
message being sent by that. reason they can command the fees is | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
because it's a sellers' market, because there are far fewer | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
university places than there are people who want an education. The | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
way to drive prices down and make it more affordable is to open up | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
the market and allow different providers to enter. One of the | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
consequences of Labour education policies that you spend a lot of | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
time attacking is there were more people going to universities and | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
there will be fewer people going because of scrapping the EMAs and | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
because of the rising fees and because of the huge cuts in | :19:21. | :19:27. | |
teaching grants. That, I think, is far more important whether AC | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
Grayling has half-baked ideas. of the fundamental problems we face | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
in this country is getting bright kids from poor backgrounds into our | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
elite universities. It's proving to be really a struggle. How does this | :19:42. | :19:51. | |
help? Well, if there are bursaries it doesn't make any -- make things | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
any worse. If 25% will apply on a means blind basis then it's not | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
worse, but here we come back to what was achieved in the Labour | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
years and many years before that, why is it now that so few kids from | :20:05. | :20:11. | |
state schools find it possible to get in on their merits to Oxford | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
and Cambridge? I think it's because in looking at the secondary | :20:14. | :20:21. | |
education system, we felt that selection was a bad thing, so - | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
why? Because the secondary modern schools weren't very good, so | :20:24. | :20:31. | |
instead of trying reform them, we destroyed the grammar schools. | :20:31. | :20:39. | |
know you don't agree with that. will work like an ivy Leith college. | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
They charge people who can afford slightly over the odds and then | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
they can enable poorer children who wouldn't otherwise have access to | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
that quality of higher education to go. I'm not worried that there will | :20:51. | :21:01. | |
:21:01. | :21:04. | ||
be a lot of rich kids from China and the ol gashing sons going there. | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
The Government's own social mobility report says that state | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
school kids who get to universities are getting better degrees than | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
those out of the private schools and the problem with Oxbridge is | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
they haven't tackled what they need to do to get more state school kids | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
going into the universities. There are a handful that dominate the | :21:23. | :21:27. | |
state school sector. Toby - it includes a lot of the remaining | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
grammar schools. You have a free school in west London. When does it | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
open? September. How much money have you got from the Government? | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
Exactly the same amount that any ordinary school would have. We get | :21:40. | :21:48. | |
something like between five to six,000 per pupil. Who has bought | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
the site? The department for education. Let me just say, I don't | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
oppose everything that Labour did. I'm wholly in favour of their city | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
academies programme, something I wish your wife was too. You wish | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
Gordon hadn't blocked it as much too. Absolutely. Toby, keep us up- | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
to-date with the free school. There is no mystery on what keeps us up | :22:11. | :22:19. | |
late, super-strong coffee and Blue Nun and saup-weak bladder control. | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
-- soup-weak bladder. Sally Bercow will join us to talk about the | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
sexualisation of society. If you want to witness deluded moral | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
outrage there's nowhere better than the viewers' comments page on the | :22:33. | :22:42. | |
interweb. Or you can express your disgust with fewer swear words by | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
following us on twitter. Painfully steal, that is the verdict of the | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
Archbishop of Canterbury today. We thought he was talking about this | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
programme, but no, it turns out he meant David Cameron's big society. | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
He could have gone on to say cheap, soft and low on protein, but then | :22:58. | :23:06. | |
he really would have been talking about this programme, or modern | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
mass-produced bread, which Britain invented 50 years ago this week we | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
should hang our heads in shame. We asked Kevin Maguire to remember a | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
simpler time, when bread and politics were made the traditional | :23:17. | :23:27. | |
:23:27. | :23:39. | ||
Last on the round would be old ma Cameron's place. It was like taking | :23:39. | :23:47. | |
bread to the top of the world. Mrs Cameron. I've got your organic sour | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
dough and raspberry bloomer. World were a simpler place once, but | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
these days everything's going up in price. Economists say elderly folk | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
have to choose between eating and heating. This week's been about one | :24:02. | :24:12. | |
:24:12. | :24:19. | ||
thing, bread. Well, dough to you and me. They don't make them like | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
they used to, you know. Time were a Lib Dem were a Lib Dem. And now | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
he's a delivery boy for Mr Osborne, the butcher. The case for changing | :24:31. | :24:37. | |
strike law is not a compelling one. However, should the position change | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
and should strikes impose serious damage to the economic and social | :24:40. | :24:47. | |
fabric, the pressure on us to act will ratchet up. That's something | :24:47. | :24:57. | |
:24:57. | :25:01. | ||
which both you and I will Beth both collectively want to avoid. -- will | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
both collectively want to avoid. talked tough before, but he didn't | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
rise to the occasion. This debate about strike laws is nothing but a | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
distraction. There is no justification for tightening up | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
even further already extremely restrictive laws. The Tories are | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
really needing the Lib Dems with them, being pum eld and pounded and | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
David Cameron is getting on with the U-turns. We'll not cut spending | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
on the NHS, but increase it. If you are worried that we'll sell off the | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
NHS or create something American- style private system, we will not | :25:37. | :25:47. | |
:25:47. | :25:48. | ||
do that. Cameron faced the wrath of God, oh, how much the prime baker | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
must wish the Church of England was still the Tory Party at prayer. The | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
Archbishop of Canterbury said the poor need more than a few crumbs | :25:55. | :26:05. | |
:26:05. | :26:25. | ||
Labour says the Government's plans are half-baked and not just on the | :26:25. | :26:31. | |
NHS. Ken Clarke's plans for half sentencing were meant to safe a -- | :26:31. | :26:37. | |
save a load of dough. Ed Miliband should have had David Cameron on | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
toast at Prime Minister's questions. He knows he's in a total mess on | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
the policy. Just like on all of the other crime policies and I now want | :26:46. | :26:55. | |
to ask about another area where he's in a complete mess. | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
Miliband failed to singe Cameron. I'm not surprised he wants to move | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
on, because on the first subject he was found guilty. We all know, on | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
the Irish of discounts it was the last government that introduced a | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
33%, a third discount on sentences, so there is, as I say, more than a | :27:16. | :27:23. | |
whiff of jumping on a bandwagon. This Government has more twists and | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
turns than my bread, but Labour is still finding it hard to slice | :27:27. | :27:37. | |
:27:37. | :27:42. | ||
Out Pop Tony Blair, flogging his book to make more bread. | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
largest private donor to him is Alastair Campbell, you're not | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
putting your money where your mouth is yet... Well, I'm certainly very | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
happy to support them in any way I can. I didn't realise Alastair had | :27:54. | :28:04. | |
:28:04. | :28:04. | ||
achieved that great accolade. were a grand ride back again, time | :28:04. | :28:14. | |
:28:14. | :28:20. | ||
for a mother of pearl grey. -- a mug of Earl Grey. This Week, As | :28:20. | :28:30. | |
:28:30. | :28:32. | ||
Good For You are now as it has always been. We thank the baker for | :28:32. | :28:39. | |
letting us film there. We are joined by a Lib Dem commentator. Mr | :28:39. | :28:49. | |
Cameron, his U-turn, or concessions, on health reforms - right or wrong? | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
Wrongish. Right fish in the right direction but he needs to go | :28:55. | :29:03. | |
further and drop the whole bill. Right. U-turn on sentencing policy? | :29:03. | :29:13. | |
:29:13. | :29:17. | ||
Wrongish. Wrong. Wrongish. How far are these U-turns down to Mr Clegg, | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
should he be claiming some credit for them? I think he is claiming | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
credit for the NHS one. Probably not the sentencing one. As always, | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
we learn more detail, as time goes on, and we learn that the | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
coalitions within the coalition are the unexpected. You will find that | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
there will be Conservative Cabinet ministers who disagree with their | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
fellow Conservative ministers, so I think sometimes it is a slightly | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
smoke and mirrors about this kind of, we're going to go into the | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
Cabinet and fight for a particular issue. I spoke to somebody very | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
senior in the Conservatives who said they thought the Andrew | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
Lansley stuff was pretty crazy. So I think a lot of Tories had spotted | :30:03. | :30:09. | |
that. I think Mr Cameron would like to be shot of a lot of it as well | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
now, I don't think he understood what the implications were. But as | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
he backtracked enough to satisfy the Liberal Democrats? I do not | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
entirely know the answer to that, because we're waiting for the | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
detail. But there if -- but if there is a sufficient pull back | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
from a single body which are driving towards competition, then | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
obviously that will alleviate a lot of the problems that were raised in | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
the Liberal Democrat amendments to motions at the spring conference. | :30:39. | :30:45. | |
Mr Cameron seems quite adept at U- turns. We in the media, no matter | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
who is in power, we make a big deal about U-turns, probably too much - | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
from your experience inside government, do they Harmer | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
government? No, I think John Major was damaged through the whole sense | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
of dithering and taking different positions. I think ultimately what | :31:03. | :31:09. | |
matters is the policy position you get to. Where I think David Cameron | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
is in trouble on this one, there was a discussion on Newsnight the | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
other night, with Norman Lamb, and the Tory MP who's in the news for | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
other things tonight, a bit of a right winger, I think, and they | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
were both same, following David Cameron's speech, they're both | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
really happy. Now that's totally impossible, this Liberal Democrat | :31:32. | :31:39. | |
and the right-wing Tory. Opposite working good guys from within the | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
health sector, saying they were totally confused by what the policy | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
was. I think Cameron, if he is up for the whole you turn business, he | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
could do worse than just drop the whole bill. A lot of what he says | :31:52. | :31:58. | |
he wants to do, he could do by just using existing reforms. Alan | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
Milburn has said you do not really need a Bill to do what he wants to | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
do. Is there a danger that looking beyond this, Mr Cameron gives the | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
impression that he's just not prepared to stand and fight on some | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
things? Absolutely, there is such a danger. He desperately needs | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
competition in the national Health Service, partly because that's what | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
he believes in, partly because the national Health Service has to make | :32:22. | :32:29. | |
enormous savings in order to live within its budget. The budget is | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
rising in real terms, but that is nothing compared to the extra | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
incidence of diseases which we can treat, and the longevity of the | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
population and so on. So, we need extra competition. I think it was | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
part of the radicalism of the coalition, which I thought was | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
extremely attractive, that in areas like criminal justice, it was | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
prepared to look at new solutions, different ways of trying to reduce | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
the prison population, not just building new prisons, and part of | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
that is, in certain cases, if somebody says you the trouble of | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
taking them through the criminal justice system, they should be | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
offered a discount on their sentence, it is just common sense. | :33:12. | :33:17. | |
I want to move on to Ed Miliband. There is a perception growing at | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
Prime Minister's Questions that there is a regular open goal | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
staring him in the face, and the ball gets kicked over the bar. | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
think he is just going through one of those phases, where there is a | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
media mood of negativity around him. I did not see PMQs yesterday, but I | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
think Ed Miliband is one of the few people I have noticed who can get | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
under the skin of David Cameron, and who I think has had some decent | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
kits at Prime Minister's Questions. They think he's right not to be | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
going too fast on the policy review process. He is still in the process | :33:52. | :33:59. | |
of getting known by the public. The problem we have got now, I used to | :33:59. | :34:08. | |
feel terribly sorry for Olly, when she was a press officer for the Lib | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
Dems, but we have to accept now, we are the third most interesting | :34:12. | :34:19. | |
party. Nick Clegg's tactics, is it really just to stay behind the | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
scenes at the moment I have been writing about this for some time, | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
and I think it is borne out by what you have written, and a lot of the | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
stuff I have read from Labour, when they were in government, which is | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
this obsession with making speeches and announcements and trying to | :34:36. | :34:45. | |
turn the media image of somebody. It is not achievable. Therefore, a | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
long-term media strategy has to be backed up by kneeling down the | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
details of the policy, and the policy having some kind of | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
coherence. I think Nick Clegg will damage himself even more by trying | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
to give this sense that the policy debate is now about he can | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
influence every policy. He is now the Deputy Prime Minister of the | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
government, his only hope I think in rebuilding any sense of | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
credibility is to be the guy who just takes the hits, says, I'm | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
doing what is white for the country, and I will tough it out. To a | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
certain extent, he has been doing that. Does it matter these days | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
what the Archbishop of Canterbury thinks about politics? The column | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
he wrote in the New Statesman could have been written by a political | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
commentator. Does it matter? happens every time you have Tories | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
in government now. This thing about the Church of England being the | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
Tory Party at prayer is so far out of date. I'm amazed by the | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
political naivety. I draw exactly the opposite lesson from the | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
Archbishop of Canterbury. In a modern democracy, you will never | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
get people telling you what to do in government, what needs to be | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
done. The miracle is that in democracies, you still get people | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
who, when they get into power, to what is the right thing to do. They | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
will not tell you in advance. The Archbishop Canterbury saying this | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
is terrible because they did not tell us in advance, no, that's not | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
terrible. The wonderful thing is that they're actually doing the | :36:20. | :36:27. | |
right policy now. We were talking about this story earlier, have the | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
police spoken to you? I have been speaking to the police about the | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
Glenn Mulcaire stuff, but I have not decided what to do about that. | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
But I think this Jonathan Rhys stuff is going to go into a | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
different area. We're not just talking about phone hacking, we're | :36:43. | :36:49. | |
talking about bank details, building societies, the further | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
they get into the details of a D George's mortgage, if that is what | :36:53. | :36:59. | |
it was, this is beginning to unravel now. -- Eddie George. We | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
have had the first police investigation, which was a joke. | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
Then we have had the, it is just a Rogue reporter, but that has gone | :37:08. | :37:15. | |
as well. But this shows newspapers systematically hiring people to | :37:15. | :37:24. | |
do... We need to leave it there. There's nothing we like more than a | :37:24. | :37:28. | |
good old fashioned moral panic. Whether it's too much violence or | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
too much sex. In the case of Michael Portillo, too much wearing | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
of his violently sexy green satin shirt. We believe the public should | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
be protected from all such degenerate influences, even at this | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
time of night. But are the latest tabloid headlines about | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
inappropriate influences just scare stories? We decided to put the | :37:52. | :38:02. | |
:38:02. | :38:03. | ||
sexualisation of society under the House of society become too | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
sexualised, especially where children are concerned? David | :38:06. | :38:12. | |
Cameron thinks so. The Government has decided it is time for action. | :38:12. | :38:19. | |
Parents told me they did not want further regulation. What they | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
wanted was the barriers which stopped them being good parents to | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
be taken away. But can children be prevented from growing up too | :38:30. | :38:37. | |
quickly? It has not stopped the opening of a new Playboy Club in | :38:37. | :38:46. | |
London. That's despite the protests. Meanwhile, women have been walking | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
the streets protesting about their right not to be judged by the | :38:50. | :38:57. | |
clothes they wear. Is society really going to hell in a handcart, | :38:57. | :39:05. | |
or are we just jumping on a typical tabloid bandwagon? That picture | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
speaks volumes for our relationship, I'm the one doing all the punning. | :39:09. | :39:17. | |
Anyway, we joined now by Sally Bercow. His David Cameron right to | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
be worried about this? I think he is. It is an issue for | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
all parents, children are becoming more sexualised, but the question | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
is really whether the Government should be doing something about it, | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
or whether really, parents should be stepping in. I think parents | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
have to take some responsibility. A padded bikini top does not by | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
itself, a parent buys it. When you see kids wearing T-shirts saying | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
things like, future WAG, it makes you wonder whether parents allow | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
that. Absolutely, it can be pester power. I know what is like, you | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
come in from a long day, the kids say, I want this, I want that, and | :39:57. | :40:04. | |
you agree, but you have to draw a line in the sand. Do you think it | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
comes from children who want to copy their parents, when they're | :40:07. | :40:17. | |
:40:17. | :40:17. | ||
young? There's a beauty salon which has opened at the weekend which is | :40:17. | :40:24. | |
doing exactly that for 16-month-old babies. Painting toenails, doing | :40:24. | :40:34. | |
:40:34. | :40:38. | ||
sprayed towns and so on. You almost think that should be illegal. | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
Absolutely, it has been opened at the weekend. But I think the key | :40:42. | :40:48. | |
thing is that parents need to be firmer with their children. | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
Youngsters today have access, when I was a kid, it was TV, but today, | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
it is laptops, I phones, i-Pads, there are pin their rooms all the | :40:58. | :41:05. | |
time. It is an incredible array of influence. -- they are up in their | :41:05. | :41:15. | |
:41:15. | :41:16. | ||
rooms. A lot of it is a good thing, enriching the life experience of a | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
child. But parents do have to take more of an interest in their | :41:19. | :41:26. | |
children. It is not just up to the government to babysit them. | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
government do much about this? not have a problem with Cameron | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
saying, there is a problem. What I cannot workout is what the | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
government actually does about it. I spoke to my daughter tonight, to | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
see what she thought, she's 17 now. She says, there is no doubt there | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
is more of this stuff, but she thinks a lot of kids have worked | :41:48. | :41:55. | |
out how to sail through it. My take is that you cannot do this without | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
changing society. Most of us are attracted by advertisements which | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
promote sexuality, scantily clad people, good-looking people, and | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
unless we are prepared to change society, it is just not going to | :42:10. | :42:19. | |
:42:20. | :42:24. | ||
happen. Should we be careful that we are not just part of the old | :42:24. | :42:29. | |
thing where every generation thinks the same thing? I do not think we | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
should wrap children up in cotton wool at all. That's why sexual | :42:32. | :42:41. | |
education is important in school. And you have got two young kids. | :42:41. | :42:49. | |
Three. Are you conscious that this is a problem for them? Absolutely. | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
Thanks for being with us. That's your lot for tonight. Michael and I | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
are off to cry ourselves to sleep. Why? I hear you ask. Like everyone | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
else we meet, we failed miserably to get any tickets for the Olympics. | :43:04. | :43:10. | |
So, no synchronised swimming for me. No Greco-Roman wrestling for | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
Michael. You know how much Michael loves his Greco-Roman wrestling. He | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
does. Shambles, Seb Coe, you should hang your head in shame. But we | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
were heartened to see the Speaker of the House of Commons back in the | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
news, he gallantly came to the defence of his wife this week, | :43:27. | :43:33. |