08/03/2012 This Week

# One love # One heart

# Let's get together # And feel all right... # As Prince

Harry skanks his way across Jamaica, This Week gets in the reggae groove.

Hagamuffin George Osborne back home has to decide which tax moves to

make in the Budget. Will anyone be dancing for joy though? Rude boy

Peter sting fellow is vexed and thinks it's time for the Chancellor

to spin some Tory tunes. Let's get serious. George, the very people

you are attacking with your extra taxes are the very one who is can

get us out of this mess - we need them and you are not doing it right.

# One love... # Prince Harry tries to compete with Mr Cool himself,

Usain Bolt, but with the Liberal Democrats' Vince Cable dancing to

his own tune, is he trying too hard to be the Marty's Mr Cool?

Westminster's Quentin Letts struts his stylee. Who's been a naughty

boy then, Vince Cable refusing to play by the rules. And David Frost

joins the This Week sound system. Any good interview's got to build.

It's one love, one heart, here on This Week. Irie. Sorry, evening

all! Welcome to This Week, the show that fiddles as Babylon burns. And

if we are looking for signs of a civilisation in peril, look no

further than call-me-Dave's very own babble-guru, Steve no relation

to Paris Hilton who's quitting Downing Street and showing his

faith in the Big Society by leaving dear old Blighty and moving to

California! Cool, as the only beach bum used to explain in his

hilariously groovy strategy bulletins. Steve, no relation to

Paris Hilton is the blue-sky thinker who convinced Dave that

detoxifying the Tory brand was the way to get elected. So, out went

fox-hunting, in came dog-sledding. Out went the Union Flag, in came

the green oak tree. Out went any mention of Sam Cam being aristocrat,

in came dolphin tramp stafrpls and playing pool with tricky -- stamps.

But with This Week's Steve busy booking his one-way ticket to

Venice beach, the mask was allowed to slip and after several days, the

Prime Minister we vealed he was a hip tophile. After all, that's

right folks, despite protestations that he did not have sexual

relations with that hars, Raisa. And that it all depends on what the

meaning of is, is call me Dave eventually forced to admit that he

was indeed a long lover of police horses. Speaking of those on their

way to the knackers yard, I'm joined tonight by two of

Westminster's tired old war-horses. The pony and trap of late-night

chat, I speak of course of Michael Portillo and back, by absolutely no

public demand whatsoever, and praying to heaven that we've all

forgotten about her recent Twitter brain farts. Your month of the

week? There was a newsite eem from Afghanistan that which maized me

which was a plan for a new law in Afghanistan which supposedly had

the fingerprints of President Karzai all over it, as they put it,

which was to establish the place of women in Afghanistan and in short

it is that they may not go out in the streets alone, they must be

accompanied by their brother or husband, they cannot be in any

place alongside men, which apart from anything else stops you being

a female Member of Parliament because you can't go to the

Parliament which has a lot of men in it. This supposedly is there in

order to ingratiate the Government with the Taliban with whom a deal

will have to be done to have a political settlement. Over the

years, it's been said during the British presence there that one of

the justifications, one of the triumphs, was the position of women.

The number of who were going to school? Yes, that was never a good

reason for the war, I mean the fact that it's going in the other

direction is so depressing and calls so much into question what

the whole thing is about. That was the day before the soldiers were

killed. Hold that thought because we'll come back to Afghanistan and

the implications of what's happened. Your moment? That reggae music

specially for me. We didn't actually choose it just for you.

didn't know you were on. We thought it was Alan Johnson. It wasn't one

moment but in Prime Minister's Questions, you are increasingly

seeing Tory MPs backbenchers getting up and saying who runs this

coalition, you or the Lib Dems and I think that's a kind of

premonition of trouble. Yes and the Budget may cause more as well.

were so succinct, brilliant. With less than a fortnight to the Budget,

our coalition Government, as Diane is saying, has been happily

squabbling among itself over who should be hit by the tax man. And

how hard. Business Secretary, Vince the Cable is all for slapping a

mansion tax on properties worth over �2 million. He originally

wanted �1 million and realised a lot of Lib Dem voters in his

constituency had houses worth �1 million so upped its to two. That's

principle for you. He says if Chancellor Osborne gives him higher

taxes on houses, he'll go for the 50p tax rate. Peter Stringfellow is

I've been in the leisure industry, nightclubs, for 50 years this year.

I've been employing people thousands of them in Great Britain,

America and France, and there's one thing I know and that is how to

motivate them. What kind of a message is it sending out to people

who aspire to a better life, want a top salary, not necessarily the

ones who have it now, the ones who want to work hard and make a good

salary? The message is simple, you earn more, we take it off you.

What's the sense in all that? I don't understand it. The point of

earning more money is to keep as much as possible. We know how to

spend it, Governments squander it. I'm old enough to remember the '70s

when tax was something ludicrous in 90%. We turned into a cash economy

and the Government never gets anything of a cash economy. So we

know it doesn't work. Keep the taxes down. Don't let's go

backwards into the '70s, let's go forward, lower taxes will bring

more money in and kick start the economy. Not extra taxes.

Mansion tax - where's that word come from? Mansion, a �2 million

that was mansion tax, do you mean a three-bedroomed apartment in Covent

Garden valued at �million? The way inflation go, all our houses may be

up near �2 million and we are all going to be taxed. No, no, no,

mansion, what a laugh! As for the extra 10% tax over �150,000 a year,

that's wrong also. It's the politics of envy without a doubt.

People who earn that kind of salary are wealth-creators, they work very

hard. The young people coming up want that kind of salary. The

message is, don't get it because we'll take it off you. That is

utterly wrong. Chi to be kick started, you need people wanting

the salaries, do not overtax them, it doesn't work.

Here is an idea, instead of increasing taxes, what about this

one, decrease taxes. Let people keep more of their own money, make

them happier, have better business environments, that's the way to get

Britain back again. Try it! It will work. Peter sting fellow in his

famous nightclub, now in our famous nightclub in Westminster. Always a

pleasure, always. Thank you for joining us.

Diane, do you agree with Peter, not on the cub stance of what he's

saying, but on the point that there is a danger that all the talk about

tax is dominated by the politics of tax rather than what would kick

start a flat lining economy? There's no question that it's about

the politics of tax and there's no question as well that it's because

of people like Peter that we ran scared of the whole taxation for 13

years. What I would say about tax though, there are things to say

about tax. What would interest me is about the only decent policy the

Lib Dems have which is take the lower paid out of tax all together.

That's one thing that does interest me. Do you understand, whatever if

right and wrongs about the 50p in terms of the economics of it, the

difficulty of a Conservative-led coalition in these hard times

cutting the 50p rate? All right. I'm no fan of the coalition. We

should have just continued without them. Minority Government. If we

were pushed, we should have gone to a new election. That's what I say

to this day. Having said that, I believe I said -- I believe

everything I said up there. If this tax was going to create �50 billion,

OK, but it's peanuts in comparison. If this so-called �2 million

mansion would create billion, maybe I would look at it but it's not.

It's all envy stuff to make Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives and

Labour who're in it, as you well know, they love the taxing. They

are terrified of people hike you. How could you be terrified of

Peter? I don't know. When the Conservative Government came in,

they should have dropped the 10%. It was a spoiler brought in by the

last Labour Government. So you think they should tough it out? Do

you think because you believe it's economically right, hang the

politics, argue the case? Let me keep some more of the money and

I'll employ more people. I employ 160 people and not including the

self-employed dancer. You want me to make more money, fine, I'll do

that. People like me like the idea. I'm on a hiding to nothing, I know

that. Hiding to nothing. I'm backing up, don't tax us.

Everyone's frightened to death. Our own Conservative MPs, Michael, you

were and I hope still are a Conservative. Where are the people

standing up and coming against the tax, the Conservatives? Is Peter

right? Should the Conservatives have the guts to just argue the

case if that's what they really believe or is it political

impossibilities to cut the 50p rate now? I entirely agree with Peter

that it hangs up a big sign saying that we are anti-business, I think

it does destroy enterprise, but unfortunately, the vast majority of

the population don't share our perception or our understanding of

that and in these very, very hard Timms when people are paying a lot

of money in tax, I think it would be very damaging. That is the point,

the economic context where a lot of people are frightened for their

jobs, seeing the costs of basic things go up, the political optics

of dropping the 50p tax rate would be disastrous. Vince Cable has

opened up a possibility I think for the Conservatives which otherwise

they wouldn't have. Which one? which one? That property in this

country is vastly undertaxed. I designed the council tax and I

compressed the bands so that people at the top would pay

disproportionately little. True confessions! Why do they do that,

because a lot of people have expensive properties who don't have

high incomes or any incomes at all. It remains the case that property

is undertaxed, so if Vince Cable is saying I'm happy to give up the 50p

if there is a property tax, there is an opportunity there. Are you in

favour of the 50p? I think my Shadow Finance Minister, the great

Ed Balls, has said that he's in favour of a mansion tax but not if

it's a trade off for the 50p tax rate. What are you in favour of?

think the mansion tax is not the greatest idea. You could do it by

fiddling with council tax bands for more expensive houses, yes.

council taxs - let me put this to you, the great British public know

if they own a house how much collateral they have. Oh my God,

they check it out, if I sold it tomorrow I would have �50,000 and

no capital gains tax, it's free. The Government will aim at that

next. If we let this go, they would be after the other houses and

anyone who makes any money - tax. Would you not be in favour of the

trade-off that Michael talked about whereby you cut the tax on striving

and aspiration, cut that back to 40%, but increase the property tax,

whether it's a mansion tax or council tax band, that's a detail,

but those who live in big expensive houses should pay more because you

are taxing their wealth rather than A tax is a tax. A tax on a mansion

and what a silly word, nobody's got a mansion, do you, I don't. I know

big houses, but not mansions. Council, I agree. Have a look at

council, pay a proportion of council tax. I don't think people

who own big houses is going to argue with that too much, Michael.

The problem is on the council tax front, all the valuations of the

houses are currently based on 1991 property prices. As you said a

moment ago that's a detail. It's not, because... I agree it's an

important detail. The real problem with the property tax, the value of

property is not related to somebody's income, that's where

rates came to grief in the end and that's why we invented... You got a

rebate. The advantage of a property tax it's almost impossible to evade,

that's the great advantage and it brings in the non-doms. Never mind

the tax, explain to our viewers how putting more money in your pocket

would help the economy. It's not putting more money in my pocket.

It's leaving money - no, because sreu had 40% for years. Thatcher

brought it down to 40%. I have reminded people in the 70s, it was

a black market cash economy. That's what happens. I am sorry, but

people are people. They want to keep as much money, whether Liberal

or Labour. Real people in the real economy, it's quite different.

real economy is reality and there's a lot of hypocrisy, as you well

know, in the Labour Government and the Liberals and I don't like

hypocrisy in my own party, Conservatives and that is let's

keep our money and parade it around. Just about hypocrisy, one word,

before you attack the coalition and David Cameron for having a 50 pers

- 50% tax rate, remember Margaret thatch her a 60% -- Thatcher had

60%. If We are being serious about inventives one has to remember she

had a 60%... It came down from 90 to 60%, 30% drop and it's been 40.

Labour Government came in and squandered the boom money. Now we

are back again. David Cameron has a lower rate of tax than Margaret

Thatcher had. Before we get carried away on rewriting recent history,

let's look to the future. Yes or no on this, will the Chancellor in the

Budget indicate, not necessarily do, but indicate that he is going to

cut the 50 p rate? He will hint it, he won't do it. It will be suicide.

He will hint it to keep backbenchers quiet but won't do it.

I entirely agree with Diane. should do it. Do you think he will?

He should do it. The property tax, do you think you might see a deal

where he will say in a couple of years I am going to introduce

higher property taxes and that's when I will cut the top rate,

chances of a deal on that? Chances are good, although we wouldn't

support that deal. I think he will indicate he is going to reform

council tax. If he does, a disaster, we will lose voters. At least you

got on This Week tonight. I am going to the club for a drink!

done you, we will be follow you go later. Thank you very much.

My pleasure. Now, it may be too late to stop

those dastardly Iranians building a bomb capable of wiping out Nether

Wallop in 45 minutes, but at least we've enough time left to say hello,

good evening, and welcome - to broadcasting legend David Frost,

who'll be with us to talk about the art of the interview; and for those

of you deluded enough to think the BBC actually cares what you think.

You mad fools! There's the Twitter, the Facebook and, of course, the

good old Interweb. Crufts is starting in Birmingham tomorrow,

but you don't need to go there to witness, preening creatures,

prancing around, full of their own importance. Westminster's full of

them. Messing up the pavements and barking up the wrong tree, giving

their handlers the run around. And as for our own little Rottweiler

and Bichon Frise - I wont tell you what happens when they're let off

the lead! It's not a pretty sight. We've asked the Daily Mail's

Quentin Letts to go dog in hand and give us his round up of the

political week. # Walking the dog...

Good morning. The politicians at Westminster are starting to tart

themselves up ready for big decisions of the Budget. But there

should always be money for pampering, even in times of cuts

and Patchy here reckons he knows where he is heading, the winners'

platform at Crufts, provideding this grooming session goes

according to plan. Cabinet Ministers have been chewing each

other's ears over child benefit proposals. The Chancellor managed

to brush aside criticism from Ed Balls over the issue, what had

happened to Labour's old commitment to the less well-off? If we now

have a Labour Shadow Chancellor who thinks it's not fair to ask people

in the top 15% of the income tkrrb to -- then I think he is completely

lost sight of his party's values. Why is Labour opposing this? Their

position on it does seem a bit whiffy. They need to freshen up

their thinking, don't they, Patchy? Do they want to trim the deficit or

not? We will get back to you. That most unlikely, but determined

of rottweilers, Business Secretary Vince Cable, has been savaging the

coalition as well. There was a leaked letter in which he talked

about lack of vision by the Government, and then he went on the

radio to give us his views about the Budget. Budget. My colleagues

are not idealogically wedded to the 50p tax rate, if that were to go it

should be replaced by tax taxation of wealth because wealthy people in

the country have to pay their share. Mansion tax actually is an

economically sensible way of doing it. No choccie drops for Mr Cable.

Vince has been a naughty boy and needs to go back to dog school. The

Tory pack feel he shouldn't be doing his dirty business in public.

Another who is off to doggy school across the Atlantic is Steve Hilton,

David Cameron's former advisor. He is the one who used to pad around

Downing Street in his his his bear paws, he is off to spend more time

with his wife and puppies. Afghanistan is back in the news for

all the wrong reasons. Six soldiers killed, the biggest single loss of

UK life there since 2006, taking the number of British deaths in the

conflict to over 400. David Cameron paid tribute. It is a reminder of

the huge price that we are paying for the work we are doing in

Afghanistan, the sacrifice that our troops have made and continue to

make. I do believe it's important work for our national security

right here at home, but of course this work will increasingly be

carried out by Afghan soldiers and we all want to see that transition

take place. Elsewhere in the animal kingdom

that wonderful saga horsegate is rumbling on. Former top police

sniffer dog Lord Blair was at the Leveson inquiry.

I think some top police officers just wish that sleeping dogs would

lie. What I understand he will say is

that he was telephoned by Rebecca brooks, asking about this

arrangement that she had heard this arrangement existed and that then

he arranged for her to go down and see the inspector in charge of

horses and then have a discussion about it and this actually seems to

have happened on the day that I had lunch with her and what I

understand he is going to say is that this was discussed at the

lunch, I have absolutely no recollection of that.

Horsegate is absurd on one level but the perception is a little bit

In some ways it's a pity that Patchy is a cocker spaniel and not

a corgi because the Commons was in high Royal mode this week. A debate

on the Diamond Jubilee and we heard from the father of the House, Sir

Peter Tapsell. I once asked a courtier how she did it, to which I

received a characteristic reply, by not eating salads, shellfish, and

watermelon while travelling. Meanwhile, the Queen's grandson,

Prince Harry, best of breed, has been in Jamaica, wowing them with

his diplomacy skills. Good boy. Poll sticks leads us here --

politics lead us here and there, make no bones about it, the party's

fortunes will come down to one question - the economy. Tell us

what, Patchy, I am a bit peckish. Wonder if I have worms. Oh, no.

Michael, Afghanistan, you mentioned it earlier at the start of the

programme, we know the tragic events of this week, the pictures

of the six young men. This really brought it home to everybody, six

at once. Should we still be there? I think the case is pretty tenious.

This is not going to make any difference to our being there, we

are going to be there until 2014 which is Notarantonio so very long

to wait. -- now not so very long to wait. What it increases the focus

on is what is the explanation for being there. And I don't think most

of the public by now really understand what it's about. You say

it won't make any difference if we stay there until 2014, it's not

long away, well, we are not due to be out before the end of 2014, so

it's two years away. Two years away in which the sod of young men who

lost their life on Tuesday will be at risk and we will lose more young

men like that. If the case for being there is tenious, why would

we keep them in harm's way? Well, the Government of course doesn't

say it's tenious. The Government says it's strongly connected to

security in this country. I am saying that I think a large number

of the population find it quite hard to understand that. It sounds

like you you it is tenious too? tkoeu actually, -- I do actually.

If you think the case is tenious and it's not our lives, we are

sitting here in a comfortable studio, it's not our lives at risk,

why would you put these young men and women, their lives at risk?

Because you have to attempt some sort of orderly withdrawal and

training up the Afghan army is the best possible orderly withdrawal

that you can get organised. issues with indiscipline and

corruption are endemic. I would say this, and I have to tell you

official policy, we have to say that, it's not just young men are

dying, Afghanistan has a disproportionate number of people

being maimed and crippled, much more than any other battlefield

because of these bombs that go go The problem with saying we have to

stay there to train them, is that the controversial NATO report which

the BBC got hold of several weeks ago concluded that the Afghan Army

and the police were riddled with corruption Yes. Riddled with the

Taliban, infiltrated by the Taliban in a number of areas. Yes. So what

is the case for staying a moment longer than we need to or, what is

the case for again simply getting out in the next three, four, five,

six months? My turn? Sorry. What is the case? I'm not sure what the

case is frankly. The kind of endemic corruption in the Army and

police have been known for some time and we know, history teaches

us, no Western Army's ever won in outright terms of war in

Afghanistan. If you are a mother and you lost your son in the Second

World War, hundreds of thousands did, you took comfort from the fact

that you were standing up to a great evil and that you had lost

your son in a great cause. If you lost your son in retaking the

Falklands, you could say we are liberating a British Island from

fascism, if you lost your son in Kosovo you could say, we were there

to protect innocent people from evil aggressors. You lose your son

in Afghanistan, what do you say? You're certainly fighting a great

evil, no doubt about that and we are fighting in a country which

housed Al-Qaeda and from which Al- Qaeda launched the terrorist

attacks. It's important that Al- Qaeda shouldn't use that country

again in the future. So this thing is not devoid of reason. There's a

different between Al-Qaeda and the Taliban? Of course there is.

woman who lost her son today said it was a pointless campaign? I saw

that woman actually earlier before I came in. It was very, very

moving? And very, very sad. We have to offer a rational to women like

that and I'm not sure that we can at this moment. David Miliband

talks about not having a political strategy or anything like that. But

what is a political strategy? My understanding is that the Americans

and the British are talking to the Taliban and trying to get something

in place. The Taliban have opened an office in Doha, in Qatar where

we are dealing with them. That is going on but in the end people I

know, they tell me we take bets on how long the Karzai government will

survive when NATO leaves, is it four days, four weeks or four

months? The point you made that the Taliban's not the same as Al-Qaeda

is important in this ; to us it doesn't particularly matter, I'm

afraid, if the Taliban are very influential in Afghanistan in the

future as long as that doesn't pose the threat to us. That is the

situation they're trying to arrive at in a plitle settlement. The

Taliban may be very influential in Afghanistan, but if they are not

threatening us directly or hosting Al-Qaeda that accomplishes a

mission -- political settlement. We have the disentangle. I think we

can agree that it's hard to be optimist ck about the future?

Is it right or wrong to withdraw child benefit from the higher rate

taxpayers? Well, we are saying it's wrong because we are worried about

the squeezed middle and there's this odd discrepancy whereby if

there's two of you and you both earn less than �46,000 or whatever

it is put together, you don't lose it, so there's a discrepancy so we

are saying it's wrong. What are you saying? I'm saying that we are

saying it's wrong. Are you enjoying collective responsibility?

working on it. Can I suggest there's a fair bit of work to be

done for you to sound convincing. Do you think George Osborne will

stick to his guns? He was the chap who originally came up with the

plan at the Tory conference, not last year I think the year before

actually? Yes. I think it looks as if he will. It's very anomalous,

but every now and again, life is, I suppose.

His problem is those backbenchers, they're really mute on this.

there is the problem of the exam pi which is a blatant unfairness and

they have no answer to that -- example. Steve Hilton, probably not

many people will have heard of him, but he was an important figure to

Mr Cameron, particularly in opposition, but he took him into

Downing Street. Do you think it matters to David Cameron that he's

going or is it just a kind of inside the belt waist or

Westminster village story? imagine if Steve is in touch with

the Prime Minister, he would be by telephone. If you are sitting on

Venice beach, you become a declining asset? I agree. He's been

backwards and forwards because he has to spend some time with his

wife who's out there. Good or bad that he's gone? Will the Government

be diminished by his departure or not? Slightly. I think he was a

great comfort to the Prime Minister and one wants the Prime Minister to

have those comforts. Diane, is Prince Harry going to change the

Jamaican mind about getting rid of the monarchy as Head of State?

the Jamaicans believe they've come of age as a great society. But he's

had a great trip and I loved the pictures of his hugging the

Jamaican Prime Minister, Portia Simpson. So you think Jamaica will

become a republic? Not sure because a large amount of people love the

Queen, more so than many British people. I think the Queen's pretty

popular now? Yes. No be fair, yes. She's done very well in Leicester

today, got a great reception. you think Jamaica should become a

republic? Yes, 50 years after independence it's time. They can

stay within the Commonwealth, it wouldn't affect that. I understand

that. The next generation is having a fantastic time in the Royal

Family, you know. We see Kate Middleton today out with the Queen

as well. It really is a great step forward. Here is the question to

really test collective responsibility, Diane. Hand on

heart, who is cooler? Prince Harry or Ed Miliband? Ed Miliband. Do I

get a badge?! No, you go to the tower, straight to the tower!

I'm speechless. It came out there, the microchip

clicked into her head, who's the greatest, "Ed Miliband". She's

getting the hang of it now. We like to ask the big questions here on

This Week as you have just seen. For instance, if Iceland can put a

former Prime Minister on trial for economic negligence, why is five

CID taking so long to read Gordon Brown his rights? How does Diane

square her claim that taxes don't stop for black people with the jaw-

dropping number of taxi receipts she's submitted over the years to

the Commons authorities? Just asking, that's all. And just

exactly what are the rules of the infamous This Week drinking game,

partly played up and down the campuses of this nation? Will

someone please explain? We need the answers. So we've asked none other

than legendary David Frost to put political interviews in This Week's

spotlight. Any good interview's got to build.

Did you always want to be a movie star? No, I wanted to be Queen.

It's not the questions that matter, it's the answers they trigger.

Married when you were 16? Widowed before I was 17, pregnant and a bun

in the oven. No, leave it. haven't started yet. And of course,

for God's sake listen. Let me get a word in. The truth of it is...

Marriott was not suspended. I did not... Did you overrule him or

threaten to overrule him? I tack advice... Or maybe I could learn a

few tricks from this young man. What a nice picture to finish on

there. Yes, a happy ending. People are

diving behind their sofas as we speak and switching out the lights.

Your grace, welcome. My Lord, very good to be with you. Is the set

piece interviewer a dying art? because as long as there is

conversation, as long as two people who like to ask questions to one

another anywhere, the interview fortunately for both of us will

live on. So we have still got a job? Definitely. That's a relief.

What, in your view, makes for a great interview? Oh, well some form

of relationship between the two people, it may be mutual respect or

mutual dislike or whatever, but some real relationship between the

two people, asking questions they haven't been asked before and of

course listening to the answers as well. But above all, it's got to be

that rapport of some kind between the two people and ideally, you

asked questions they haven't answered before or they give a new

answer to the question. If I asked you what your favourite interview

was, I would have assumed you would immediately say the famous

interviews, but it's not? We had been talking about interviews for

15 minutes, so when another interview that I cared about was

asked for, I talked about George Bush I, not Nixon. Why had that

made a great interview? Because before we did our first interview,

people had said he didn't communicate at all on television

and amazingly exwe'd met for 20 minutes and within 20 minutes to

have first interview, he was sharing things very personally to

do with family and the loss of his daughter, Robin and so on, and for

the first time, he showed what he was really like in an interview.

From that point onwards, we did several more during the presidency

and he was always... Talking about going into the jungle with anyone,

I would go into the jungle with George Bush I any time. Probably

going in there to escape the second George Bush? The third one is

coming along now. We'll see, there could be a brokered convention. Has

familiarity bread contempt in the sense that I can remember when you

or Robin Day or alstaur Burnett would interview the Prime Minister

or the Chancellor or the Leader of the Opposition, that was a big vent

-- Alastair Burnett. With 24 news now, they are all over the place?

There's more competition, certainly, but at the same time, when there's

a real cut and thrust or whatever sort of interview, it still has

much impact. Of course you are right and more people can do more

interviews because there's nor channels. Stpwh and television.

It's more difficult for people to make an impact with 300 channels,

rather than two. Has the for gone out of political

interviews for politicians? No, I don't think so. For example, you

would never get the Prime Minister or the Chancellor or any other

senior minister going with pax month on Newsnight, you would never

see it -- Paxman. They are not prepared to take the risk, 8009,000

people make it but if you make a mess of it, it's the headline next

day. Was there anyone you feared or were wary of being interviewed by

when you were in the Cabinet? mentioned Brian Wallden and I was

pleased with my performance, but David was apparently the

friendliest and softest of all interviewers and you would take the

break for the news in the middle of the interview and David would be

saying to you "super, wonderful" and this would lure you into an

absolute false sense of security and just as you described your

relationship with George Bush, we'd then be dying to tell you things

that we shouldn't be telling you because you have got us so relaxed.

Yes, that's right when people are more relaxeded they say things. The

interview special that goes out next week, Michael Heseltine says

that technique was, whether by me or anybody else, was a very

effective way of then toing that. The other thing he said which you

don't think of, he said it's war. Interviews with politicians are war.

It's war. But there are two types of spwe views. There's the

interview as theatre which is like Paxman or John Humphreys jumping

all over somebody which is good fun and par for the course --

interviews. There are interviews where we learn something about the

person and that's an art and when it works it's brilliant. An

American woman does the big seat piece interviews. Eddie Mayor on

Radio Four is very good, very low- key, very charming. On the PM

Programme? Yes. Excellent interviewer. Do you think it's

become more difficult for people like you and me because politicians

have become so professional now, they are trained to avoid answering

the questions? Yes, it is I suppose in a sense. In one sense, we were

saying that because interviews and political interviews have got

tougher or stronger compared to the original ones with Clement Atlee

and people and so on, so there is more variety and so on in them, but

I still think that people can come through with something fresh,

something new. Therefore it hasn't got impossible. Anybody you are

feared to be interviewed by? Lord Chief Justice in the High

Court I should think. And I think he's on his way! He wants to see

you furs thing tomorrow morning. You've done this documentary on

interviews. -- first thing tomorrow morning. It starts with someone

called Andrew Neil who's in fantastic form. Did I hit the

cutting floor? You are there safe and sound. 11 interviewers, Michael

Parkinson. Tuesday night, BBC Four? Yes, 9 o'clock. And you will see

your man Andrew Neil. If you tune into BBC Two at 9 o'clock on

Wednesday night, you will see me documentary on human rights called

Rights Gone Wrong. We are dominating the airwaves. Time for a

drink. Can I have a railway journey next week. I think that was the

train spotter speaking there. It's not the lot for us though, if Diane

could just keep her gob shut for long enough, we'll be grabbing a

Hackney carriage back to her Hackney mansion for some Blue Nun

punch and the late-night game of divide and rule. You know how us

whiteys love to play. We leave you with Catholic, cardinal Keith