05/07/2012 This Week


05/07/2012

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SONG: Diamonds Are Forever. Tonight on This Week: As Britain's

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biggest Diamond loses his sparkle - and his job - politicians argue

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over how to clean up the City. American author and former City

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Girl, Barbara Stcherbatcheff, tells us why banking is so full of

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imperfections. Clearly there's a lot that needs to change about City

:00:35.:00:41.

culture. If women were in charge, we might be in less of a mess.

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At Westminster, politicians are not just trying to cut bankers down to

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size, but announcing major cuts to the Army. The Sun's Jane Moore is

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judging whether the news can be polished. Just as Dave's inner Tory

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seems to be breaking free, it's been put back under lock and key.

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And some things are just more precious than diamonds, as

:01:04.:01:07.

scientists make an historic discovery about the universe. 24-

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carat Professor, Brian Cox, is bedazzled. Diamond probably aren't

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forever, because even protons decay. Diamonds are forevahhhh... Evenin'

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all. Welcome to This Week, the Diamante jewel in the BBC's

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political crown. And welcome to a new age of science and

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enlightenment, because tonight, dear viewer, we can confirm the

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existence of something that, until now, has avoided all attempts at

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discovery. There has been speculation for years, but firm

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evidence was stubbornly hard to come by. No I'm not talking about

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the "Greed particle", which explains why Barclay's gave a new

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meaning to fixed interest. Boom- boom. That's been around for years.

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No, I'm talking about something far harder to spot. But yesterday when

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Bob Diamond "isn't forever after all" appeared before the Treasury

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Select Committee, we finally witnessed what had been up until

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now only a theoretical possibility. Yes, for a few flickering moments,

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and using highly calibrated journalistic instruments

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specifically designed to measure things of infinitesimal size, there

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was the faintest glimpse of something that has eluded

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Westminster observers since the beginning of time itself - an MP's

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backbone, in close proximity to a banker. Sceptics claim that until

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the phenomena is replicated on a larger scale, it's far too early to

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tell whether this was a genuine backbone or merely the traditional

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sighting of an MP showing off because they're on the telly.

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Speaking of those who have no need to grow a pair, I'm joined on the

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sofa tonight by two men who often cause Bob Diamond to be physically

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ill. Me too! The big boy, and big hair, of late night political chat.

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I speak, of course, of #rivieragigolo Alastair "did I

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mention my diaries?" Campbell. And #sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo-choo"

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Portillo. Welcome to you both. Thank you Andrew. Your moment of

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the week? I think the decision of the Bank of England to print

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another �50 billion worth of stuff today. This takes it up to �375

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billion. It reminds me of, you know in those American ER films where a

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body comes in on a stretcher and they say, "Clear!" and they put on

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a couple of electrodes and it has a spasm. This is about the fourth

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time these electrodes have been applied to the British economy.

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the body is still stiff. There is quivering from the legs but no sign

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of life. Alastair? My moment of the week was the joy in Spain at the

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winning the euros and the next morning weigh up to the economic

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reality, but just showing that sport can give a country a massive

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lift. For a fleeting moment. For a few brief moments. It was

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extraordinary. Amazing. outpouring in Madrid. Great scenes

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in Madrid. Now, that Diamond geezer from

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Barclays won't easily forget this week. First, he was forced to

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resign, then forced to learn the first names of a bunch of lowly MPs

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on the Treasury Select Committee. But is the root of his problem not

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rate fixing but too much testosterone? You only have to look

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at our sofa to know what a problem that can be. And former city girl

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Barbara Stcherbatcheff thinks it's a big problem in the Square mile,

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so we've asked her for her take of the week.

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# A kiss on the hand may be quite Continental

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# But diamonds are a girl's best friend... #

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When I worked in the City, many of these diamond would have been

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within my means. Now all I can do is look. I worked in London's

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financial centre for five years, surrounded by the fast cars, fancy

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lifestyles and champagne that many people envy. Sounds great, right?

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For the guys, absolutely, but there's a dark side to all the fun

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and games. Unfortunately, this latest scandal with Barclays and

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LIBOR appears to be the tip of the iceberg. It is amazing some of

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these traders involved appear not to fear getting caught. It only

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goes to show the sheer arrogance and pig-headedness in that

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permeates much of London's financial community.

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# There may come a time when a wife needs a lawyer

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# But diamonds are a girl's best friend... #

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Two issues have contributed to such a destructive environment. The

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first is something we can probably do something about - the business

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model. The short-term risk-taking culture which fuels excessive

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gambling in the sector. This can be corrected. But the second issue is

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much harder to office, and that is greed. They say trading is a man's

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game, but I don't believe the hype. Everybody knows that women are more

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intuitive, less aggressive and egotistical, which means they tend

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to be more consistent traders who don't rack up huge losses. How many

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rogue or disgraced traders do you know who are women in zero.

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Statistically they are better traders. Researchers at Cambridge

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found a link between trading and testosterone that those with too

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much testosterone became drunk with success, so overconfident they

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could no longer properly make sound decisions. The City now condones or

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even demands male traits. The pressure to conform sun relenting.

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As a woman in the Square Mile you either buy into it or you leave.

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Just like I did. Barbara Stcherbatcheff in the 77 diamond

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studio of central London. She is in our little diamond studio now.

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Welcome. So you think it is all down to a male macho culture, is

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that the real reason? I wouldn't oversimplify it. I would think that,

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my book describes City culture in great depth. There are 200 books on

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the chef about the City and how it caused the credit crunch and all

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this, but mine is the real one that gets to the pig-headedness that

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permeates the financial industry in London. Maybe that it is behind

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some of the bad behaviour we've seen. Do you think it is related to

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the City this kind of macho culture? Yeah, I do. You do? You

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should try a tabloid newsroom! A good point. Especially when it is

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run by a woman. That's the point in a way. I will come to you on that.

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Often for the women to get on in these macho cultures, whether it is

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a City trading floor or a tabloid news floor, the women have to

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behave like men. I don't think they do. You didn't behave like a man

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did you? I was very much one of the guys. I like adrenaline sports. As

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long as you can dish it out. That's the way to get on, to be like them.

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It is. No-one ever treated me badly in the City. Journalists are always

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trying to tell me that you are blonde and you are I don't think,

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people treated you so badly. That's not the way it works now days. It

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is just sort of like, you would have this extreme macho culture,

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but there is other male-dominated industries, medicine and

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architecture. They don't behave like that. They don't spend 50

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grand... Did you have to do all that shouting and screaming? Is

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there no other way you can be on a trading floor and behave like that?

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Some of the best traders sit there quietly all day long in front of

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their screen. That's posturing. you buy the testosterone arguments?

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I think I have a more economic analysis. If you incentivise people

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to make as much money as they possibly can, if you have a no

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moral code that surround the thing, if you have almost no chance that

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people are going to be named and shamed and and disgraced. If you

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have almost zero chance that they are going to be prosecuted, even if

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the bank was bankrupted it would be allowed to fairblgs it leads to

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catastrophic behaviour. There is no great puzzle to this. Which you

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might get if there were a lot more women on there trading floor.

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think having more women on the trading floor might be a civilising

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force. I don't think that having more women in the City is the

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salvation of the City. I think that there is maybe greed and

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deceitfulness this is factor in what we've seen in the past week.

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Maybe those are arguably more male characteristics. There are more

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women in tabloid newsrooms now than there are 30 years ago. Has that

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made a change to the atmosphere, do you think? I'm not in tabloid

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newsrooms any more, but I don't think it has. A dominant culture

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takes a long time to change and move to a difficulty position. The

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little I know about the way City trading operates, that is a culture

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that even what's going on now it will be very hard to shift it. You

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say that you didn't feel badly treated because you were young and

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blonde and the rest of it, but when we talk about the testosterone-

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filled atmosphere, isn't that not a difficult place for a young woman

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to be? Absolutely. People read my book and they are inspired to go

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into the City, because they realise it is not that bad. It is not the

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rough and tumble place that it is made out to be. However, you goat a

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stage when it gets to be too much. It is like the pressure to go out

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drinking every single night. The pressure, it is like the demands of

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the industry are kind of, it is sort of condones and even demands

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male traits after a certain period of time. So maybe that's

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contributing to the sort of LIBOR scandal that we are seeing. Do we

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know that all the people involved in the LIBOR scandal are men?

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don't. No-one's been named have they? They are likely to be, as

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traders are overwhelmingly male. is about 85%. There you go. Wasn't

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something that made it more macho for the British that Bob Diamond

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was an American. I think it is easier to attack him because he is

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an American. I it won't Barclays first, because Barclays, if they

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were acting independently, wouldn't be able to manipulate anything in

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the market. Sure. But Fred Goodwin was the one who took all the het

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when the crash happened. I always felt... Bob Diamond talked a lot

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about the culture of Barclays. I would subject Michael that in a

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bank like Barclays, which is both retail and investment, there isn't

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a single culture. The kind of culture you need for a retail bank

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to be successful and honest and upright is entirely different from

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the casino bank culture of the investment bankers. Absolutely. The

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bit that he ran before he became chief executive of Barclays was the

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casino element. By the way, I think this crisis is 30% about morality

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and 70% about competence. A lot of this is about how badly banks do

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their job. How badly they are able to control behaviours. How badly

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they are able to service their customers. In the other part of the

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room, what you've got going on is RBS and its subsidiaries unable to

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access their money. And in Ulster tonight they still can't do that.

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The Americans are less squeamish about sending people to jail. They

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even have the prep walk. Under Reagan there were squillions of

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them. We are more squeamish about that. If we are going to have

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American Trading Standards on the trading floor, should we also have

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American standards of regulation and criminal sanction? I think the

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SAC has a reputation for hiring smarter people, a job at the SAC is

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paid extremely well. It is prestigious. It is like working for

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the FBI. The FSA is not the same. You have to sort of, if you want

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people working there who can discover these kind of ethical or

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criminal breaches, you need to pay It was really shocking that when

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the FSA and its sister company many the US announced the fine, the

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regulators over here said the presumption was that they wouldn't

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be able to prosecute. Prima facie, there's clearly been conspiracy to

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commit fraud. How prima facie you can conclude there hasn't been a

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crime, there's nothing worth investigating or prosecuting.

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not forget, if it hadn't been for the American regulators, this

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wouldn't have come about in the first place. They started the

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investigation. When you said the authority are squeamish, I don't

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think that's right. You also said there was no money. Our resources

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are income petnt and have the wrong attitude -- incompetent. There's

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prima facie a crime and it must be pursued. I noticed that at within

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stage in private brief ition, Bob Diamond implyed that Paul Tucker of

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the Bank of England has given the nod and wink to the fixing of the

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interest rates when he appeared at the Select Committee there was very

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little hint of that. One might think that if a person had

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knowledge of something in 2008 and if that thing subsequently turned

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out to be a crime, it wouldn't turn out to be a good thing to admit

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knowledge of it. To you miss this City? No, to be honest, I've been

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here eight years and it's lost a lot of its swagger. I mean, people

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have left in droves because of, you know... You are glad you are not

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there any more? Yes, because of the obvious reasons. The money's gone,

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it's the regulation that's getting to be excessive and, you know, it's

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not the powerhouse it used to be. We'll have to leave it there.

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Thanks for being with us. It may be too late for Bianca Jagger to crack

:16:14.:16:20.

a smile but not too late for you to crack open a bottle of the Bollie

:16:20.:16:25.

blue stuff. We have spotted a superstar, dazzling with the size

:16:25.:16:31.

of the brain like a planet. Brian Cox will be testing the theory of

:16:31.:16:38.

the size of the studio. You can sign up and join the Guinea pigs on

:16:38.:16:46.

the Twitter, fleecebook and... Hang on, dude I owe you big time. Come

:16:46.:16:52.

on, big boy, I'll open a bottle of the Blue Nun. Oh, sorry, just

:16:52.:17:00.

signing a few e-mails to my tax avoidance advisers. There's been a

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shocking revelation from our very own Deputy Prime Minister. In a

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peach this week, I saw it and heard with my own ears, Nick Clegg said

:17:09.:17:14.

he feels lobotomized by the weight of Government. It's not a secret if

:17:14.:17:18.

you tell everybody, but I think we knew that already. We sent Jane

:17:18.:17:28.
:17:28.:17:38.

Moore to unearth more hidden gems Breaking into a bank is tough

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enough. Getting away with the cash is harder still.

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Unless of course you work in one. Normally, politicians lake to hide

:17:52.:17:56.

uncomfortable secrets behind closed doors in the deepest, darkest

:17:56.:18:01.

recesses they can find. But these days, there's no hiding

:18:01.:18:06.

place. What with the Leveson Inquiry on a

:18:06.:18:10.

week off, Ed Miliband clearly feels there's something missing in our

:18:10.:18:18.

lives, so he's demanded a full- blown judge-led inquiry into the

:18:18.:18:23.

Barclays scandal. Number eight should do it, I reckon. The British

:18:23.:18:28.

people will not tolerate anything less than a full, open and

:18:28.:18:32.

independent inquiry. Did he ask you about it? No, me neither. Clearly

:18:32.:18:37.

Health and Safety trying to repeat his success in leading the agenda

:18:37.:18:41.

over phone-hacking, but Cameron said he would not be bounced into

:18:41.:18:46.

making a decision. Then 48-hours later, promptly announced there

:18:46.:18:54.

would be an inquiry. But, led by an His is a party bankrolled by the

:18:54.:19:01.

banks. If he fails to order a judge-led inquiry, people will come

:19:01.:19:06.

to one conclusion. He simply can't act in the national interest.

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party opposite want to talk about absolutely everything apart from

:19:11.:19:16.

their record of 13 years in Government. I have to say, Mr

:19:16.:19:20.

Speaker, we may have found the particle, Labour haven't found a

:19:20.:19:24.

seasons of shame. One man who found a sense of shame,

:19:24.:19:28.

well on behalf of his pane myway, was Barclays boss Bob Diamond.

:19:28.:19:34.

After days of clinging on to his job, he resigned. It looked as

:19:34.:19:38.

though the buck might finally be stopping with him. Then rumours

:19:38.:19:45.

swept Westminster that the Bank of England had asked Barclays to lower

:19:45.:19:50.

Libor. Suddenly, diamonds testimony to MPs

:19:50.:19:57.

became a jewel in the news schedule. Either you were complicit in what

:19:57.:20:02.

was going on or you were grossly negligent or you were grossly

:20:02.:20:08.

incompetent. That's the only conclusion? Sorry, I agree and I've

:20:08.:20:13.

agreed from the finning that the -- beginning that the information was

:20:13.:20:17.

wrong. It's hard to give another answer than that. It turns out to

:20:17.:20:23.

lack much sparkle. Despit the best efforts of John Mann to rough him

:20:23.:20:33.
:20:33.:20:38.

up, Bob Diamond turned out to be a For years David Cameron tried to

:20:38.:20:41.

lock away his party's political in- fighting over Europe behind thick

:20:41.:20:47.

steel doors. But this week, the vault burst wide-open when nearly

:20:47.:20:53.

100 Conservative MPs demanded a referendum about the rather

:20:53.:20:58.

polarising issue. Life outside the EU holds no

:20:58.:21:02.

terrors. As I believe globalisation will increasingly force countries

:21:02.:21:07.

to cooperate more closely on the basis of functional commonality

:21:07.:21:10.

rather than geographical proximity. Dave wouldn't be the first Prime

:21:10.:21:13.

Minister to be held hostage by his party over Europe. At first, he

:21:13.:21:18.

seemed to shake himself free of it. And then promptly handcuffed

:21:18.:21:26.

himself right back up again. Shhhh...

:21:26.:21:30.

Just as I believe it would be wrong to have an immediate in-out

:21:30.:21:33.

referendum, so it would also be wrong to rule out any type of

:21:33.:21:38.

referendum for the future. Of late, political pundits have

:21:38.:21:45.

suggested that Dave is digging deep to find his inner Tory, but opt day

:21:45.:21:49.

his Defence Secretary announces 0,000 job cuts in the Army, sounds

:21:49.:21:54.

lake that inner Tory is being stashed away again.

:21:54.:21:58.

These withdrawals and emergencyers unwelcome as I know they will be in

:21:58.:22:02.

the units affected are fair and balanced and have been carefully

:22:02.:22:07.

structured to minimise the impact of the regular manpower reduction

:22:07.:22:17.
:22:17.:22:26.

and maximise the military Normally politicians like to keep

:22:26.:22:30.

what they think will be locked awe way in a safety deposit box so it's

:22:30.:22:34.

refreshing the end the week with a couple of them prepared to tell it

:22:34.:22:39.

like it is. The first - Ken Clarke.

:22:39.:22:44.

We'd been engaged in a war with drugs 30 years, we've not achieved

:22:44.:22:50.

very much progress. The second, Nick Clegg. He talked about being

:22:50.:22:54.

lobotomize by the weight of Government. We know what you mean,

:22:54.:23:04.
:23:04.:23:04.

mate, and that's just observing it. That's cracked it. I'm in!

:23:04.:23:14.
:23:14.:23:14.

This is what bankers get up to behind closed doors, is it?!

:23:14.:23:24.
:23:24.:23:27.

I hope that's a 1994 chateau red. Only ram for one, I'm afraid. Bye!

:23:27.:23:33.

I found the 93 a better year myself. What did you make of Bob Diamond's

:23:33.:23:37.

appearance at the committee? demonstrated that committees are

:23:37.:23:41.

come plaitly useless I think. It always happens, they've learned

:23:41.:23:44.

their two or three questions, they don't work as a team, they don't

:23:44.:23:49.

pick up on each other's questions and follow through or pin the man

:23:49.:23:52.

down. Every time someone appears at the Select Committee, there's a

:23:52.:23:56.

kind of anticipation. I always say, don't hold your breath, no will

:23:56.:23:59.

happen, the Select Committee will not manage to pin this person down

:23:59.:24:02.

at all. Now it's seriously proposed that banking should be looked into

:24:02.:24:05.

by a Parliamently committee. I think it's a joke.

:24:05.:24:10.

The one thing they did come out is that Bob Diamond did not have a

:24:10.:24:14.

convincing reason for not knowing about the rate rigging? Yes, but

:24:14.:24:18.

can I also pick up on what Michael said. I agree with this point about

:24:18.:24:22.

how the Conservatives are trying to say that a Parliamentary Committee

:24:22.:24:26.

can do such a big job they seem to be proposing and I think some

:24:26.:24:30.

Select Committees are pretty good but I thought that yesterday did

:24:30.:24:35.

show that a committee is not going to do the job. It's going to be a

:24:35.:24:39.

committee of Parliamentarians which will become... Do you want another

:24:39.:24:42.

Leveson? I've been saying this since the crisis. You have had

:24:42.:24:50.

Chilcot for Iraq, Leveson for the press. Chilcot's not reported?

:24:50.:24:54.

the financial has had huge impacts and we have not had the reckoning

:24:54.:24:57.

that the public want. Do judges know any more about banking than

:24:57.:25:02.

they do about the media? Took Leveson sucks months to work out

:25:02.:25:12.

that reporters don't write their own headlines. I think Leveson has

:25:12.:25:17.

shone a light on parts of the press in a relationship with politics

:25:17.:25:20.

that's been a gad thing for the public. The banking thing is just

:25:21.:25:24.

so big and it's had such an impact and we still don't really know what

:25:24.:25:29.

happened and what caused it. I agree with Michael. I think the

:25:29.:25:35.

idea that Andrew Tyrie may be a good bloke and get Parliamentarians

:25:36.:25:40.

together but it's so easy to say a judge won't do any better but an

:25:40.:25:44.

inquiry has to go to the heart of what's happening. Parliamentary

:25:44.:25:48.

Committees never work as a team. They don't have the time to do this

:25:48.:25:55.

job. And now, the issue is hugely part zafpb. Yes. We saw the

:25:55.:25:59.

exchanges in the House of Commons today -- partisan. Come plaitly

:25:59.:26:03.

partisan. George Osborne, if you look at the House of Commons today

:26:03.:26:08.

and saw the interview he gave to the Spectator, he looks as though

:26:08.:26:12.

his main priority is to get Ed Balls, a political strategy.

:26:12.:26:15.

Totally. That would be a reasonable objective, but what seemed to be in

:26:16.:26:19.

the House of Commons today was that the Chancellor did not seem to be

:26:19.:26:25.

able to produce any evidence that implicated Balls. How z is it to

:26:25.:26:29.

led Ed Balls get on your nerves, Alastair? I was saying to makele,

:26:29.:26:33.

he's brilliant at the nodding at the frontbench and winding them up,

:26:33.:26:38.

but I thought Ed Balls had... he get on your nerves? From time to

:26:38.:26:41.

time, but he's an effective Shadow Chancellor and Osborne, he had

:26:41.:26:44.

literally no evidence whatsoever and he stands up in the House of

:26:44.:26:49.

Commons and, you said it's a political strategy, Michael earlier

:26:49.:26:53.

mentioned the quantitive easing, there is no seasons of the economic

:26:53.:26:56.

strategy the country needs. Osborne I think has been totally exposed as

:26:56.:27:01.

a not very good tactician and he parades has the great strategist.

:27:01.:27:05.

On the inquiry on the fixing of LIBOR and all the things that Suhr

:27:05.:27:12.

ronded it. Yes. There aren't Tory skeletons in the cupboard, this is

:27:12.:27:22.
:27:22.:27:23.

all for the Labour, not the Tories. -- surrounded it. There's been

:27:23.:27:27.

criminal activity... That's entirely different. That was the

:27:27.:27:33.

rate-fixing of LIBOR in 005-2006, traders trying the make money.

:27:33.:27:37.

he's trying to link the issues. no, no, he was talking about, was

:27:38.:27:41.

there a policy in 2008 in the autumn when the wholesale markets

:27:41.:27:46.

were drying up. Was there an spwst in the market in the interest

:27:46.:27:51.

rates? To artificially depress the LIBOR rate. There's not a shred of

:27:51.:27:58.

evidence for that. A tonne of evidence. Where is it Start with

:27:58.:28:03.

Tucker. Jay what does it show in relation to Ed Balls or anybody

:28:03.:28:07.

else? They have an interest in the LIBOR interest rate, why wouldn't

:28:07.:28:10.

they at a tame of global economic crisis. They are saying to Barclays,

:28:10.:28:16.

we have an interest in you posting a lower interest rate than market

:28:16.:28:21.

circumstances would dictate. Read the memo. I've read it. You say

:28:21.:28:28.

That's what it says. Osborne's trying to put Ed Balls in the frame

:28:28.:28:37.

and Gordon Brown. That is what he is doing, trying to make that

:28:37.:28:43.

extrapolate. When Mr Tucker Dell - tells Bob Diamond that... It would

:28:44.:28:48.

be very interesting to know. People who've been asked and responded

:28:48.:28:51.

about it, this is my point about Osborne, I can't imagine and when

:28:52.:28:54.

Michael's in Government or when Tony Blair was Prime Minister, to

:28:54.:28:57.

have a Chief Executive stand up in the House of Commons with not a

:28:57.:29:02.

shred of evidence... My point is nothing to do with Mr Osborne.

:29:02.:29:06.

is. That's what he's gone to. is a policy being followed by the

:29:06.:29:10.

Government in 2008 to do something about LIBOR. Or by the Bank of

:29:10.:29:13.

England possibly. The Bank of England saying it was under

:29:13.:29:16.

pressure from the Government and that's what the investigation

:29:17.:29:19.

should concentrating on doing. you saying the MPs that you have

:29:19.:29:23.

seen at each other are the best people to do that and the judges

:29:23.:29:30.

will get... That won't be for me to This latest round of defence cuts.

:29:30.:29:34.

How serious are they? Serious. Personally I find it hard to

:29:34.:29:37.

understand, because what was demonstrated by Iraq and

:29:37.:29:42.

Afghanistan is we don't have enough troops on the ground to run two

:29:42.:29:46.

campaigns simultaneously. We lost both. We failed to hold Basra and

:29:46.:29:50.

we failed to hold Helmand. So you might think, well the response to

:29:50.:29:53.

that ought to be to have more boots on the ground and to see whether

:29:53.:29:58.

you could make the savings from equipment that we never use. For

:29:58.:30:02.

example nuclear weapons. Never use them, never will use them, a big

:30:02.:30:08.

waste of money. Aircraft carriers. If we are doing without them for

:30:08.:30:13.

ten years, why not in perpetuity. I would have thought the focus in the

:30:13.:30:18.

defence review would be to get rid of expensive people, but it has

:30:18.:30:25.

done the opposite. Can you explain, it came out in Question Time, the

:30:25.:30:30.

Israelis, who've a procurement budget the same size as Britain's

:30:30.:30:38.

we have 2,500 people doing defence procurement and the Israelis have

:30:38.:30:45.

450. I didn't know that figure. I didn't know the Israeli figure.

:30:45.:30:50.

you ran the British department! knew the British figure. I was

:30:50.:30:54.

recently reading the memoirs of Bomber Harris, who ran the air

:30:54.:30:58.

campaign during the Second World War. He said there was a particular

:30:58.:31:03.

civil servant in the Air Ministry who was worth two division as day

:31:03.:31:13.
:31:13.:31:13.

to the Air Ministry. If you have that many soiths, the way they

:31:13.:31:17.

entertain themselves is changing their decisions and making every

:31:17.:31:21.

project expensive. If there's a single proper policy for the

:31:21.:31:26.

Ministry of Defence it should be to eliminate so many civil servants.

:31:26.:31:31.

And the big question: has Nick Clegg been lobotomised? I don't

:31:31.:31:38.

think so. Lo not mization is a very serious -- lobotomisation is a very

:31:38.:31:43.

serious operation, carried out very rarely these days. He was talking

:31:43.:31:47.

that the demands of Government are such that you hardly ever have a

:31:47.:31:54.

minute to think. I see. I thought you meant he was feeling battered

:31:54.:31:59.

and beleaguered. I want to make my usual defence of Nick Clegg. They

:31:59.:32:04.

are solid on the Government policy of maintaining austerity, a and

:32:04.:32:08.

that's which stands between us and disaster today. Mr Clegg will be

:32:08.:32:13.

very pleased. So will Mrs Clegg. But the economy is not getting

:32:13.:32:17.

fixed. We know your view on that. It may even be right!

:32:17.:32:20.

Now, This Week isn't exactly rocket science. It's a pretty simple

:32:20.:32:23.

equation: Michael + Alistair + Blue Nun = on-screen chemistry! Yet

:32:23.:32:25.

Albert Einstein actually claimed politics was more difficult than

:32:25.:32:31.

physics. I suppose the existence of the Miliband brothers disproves the

:32:31.:32:35.

theory of relativity. John Prescott disproves the theory of evolution.

:32:35.:32:37.

Alastair Campbell's diaries disprove the theory of accurate

:32:37.:32:47.
:32:47.:32:50.

recall. That is not true! Michael Portillo's quiff disproves

:32:50.:32:53.

the theory of gravity. But we decided it was time to test the

:32:53.:32:55.

hypothesis and put political science under this week's

:32:55.:33:05.
:33:05.:33:15.

Eur ech ka! After 50 years of predict and seek, the Higgs boson

:33:15.:33:19.

particle has been found. The British photographer who began the

:33:19.:33:24.

search couldn't hide his joy. would like to add my

:33:24.:33:27.

congratulations to everybody involved in this tremendous

:33:27.:33:35.

achievement. For me it's really an incredible thing that has happened

:33:35.:33:40.

in my lifetime. The Prime Minister was quick to congratulate the team

:33:40.:33:45.

at CERN and dismiss the accusation that science isn't given the

:33:45.:33:50.

respect or money it deserves. should congratulate everyone

:33:50.:33:54.

involved. In Government's commitment to the science budget,

:33:54.:33:59.

while we've had to make difficult cuts, we preserved the science

:33:59.:34:03.

budget. With only a single Member of Parliament from a science

:34:03.:34:07.

background r our politicians failing to understand the world

:34:07.:34:14.

around them? Perhaps with geek chic, we need a scientist at Westminster.

:34:14.:34:18.

It is like saying we want to explore that ocean but we don't

:34:18.:34:23.

know where the land is. We have now found the land. We don't know

:34:23.:34:30.

what's on that land yet, but at least we know where it is.

:34:30.:34:34.

Professor Cox is with us now. Welcome to This Week. It's been a

:34:34.:34:40.

great week for scientists. Explain to us simpletons why we,

:34:40.:34:45.

particularly these two, who are very simple, I should put in a

:34:45.:34:50.

warning. It is late at night. Most ofous audience is drunk! Simply,

:34:50.:34:55.

the theory is that empty space is not empty. It is rammed full of

:34:55.:34:59.

things called Higgs particles. We get our mass, the particles that

:34:59.:35:04.

make up everything in the universe, your hand, this table, get their

:35:04.:35:07.

solidity by bouncing off the Higgs particles, which sounds like a

:35:07.:35:11.

bizarre thing to say, except we now know that is correct. Who could

:35:11.:35:16.

ever have thought that was the case? Well, Peter Higgs and a few

:35:16.:35:22.

others. I get that. But why would you ever think that? It was a

:35:22.:35:26.

mathematical prediction based on an aesthetic judgment about the

:35:26.:35:29.

equations that we had which described how the universe works.

:35:29.:35:38.

It is one of the best examples, the if not the best I know, the

:35:38.:35:41.

unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the sciences. It is

:35:41.:35:47.

not known why it should be a guide to reality, but in this case, not

:35:47.:35:54.

only have we found that the vacuum of space are filled with Higgs

:35:54.:36:00.

particles, but 08 countries have tested that hypothesis and found it

:36:00.:36:04.

to be true. David Cameron and others launched a congratulatory

:36:04.:36:07.

statement. Do you think he had any idea what he was congratulating the

:36:08.:36:11.

science community about? I don't know. There's been a lot of it in

:36:11.:36:16.

the press. It's a positive time, because as you thingsed in the

:36:16.:36:22.

introduction, Britain has not been great, certainly its political

:36:22.:36:26.

class has not been great at understanding science and

:36:26.:36:29.

supporting it. We are one of the lowest spending countries in terms

:36:29.:36:34.

of R&D and yet we are one of the most successful countries. We had

:36:35.:36:42.

the best Science Minister we ever had in David Sainsbury. And he

:36:42.:36:47.

doubled the contributions to the Labour Party too;; Is it a cause

:36:47.:36:50.

for worry that there is almost a total lack of scientific knowledge

:36:50.:36:56.

in the Commons? Only one MP has worked in science. There are many

:36:56.:37:00.

reasons why that bad. Policys should be based on evidence. What

:37:00.:37:05.

you are talking about that is the scientific method. The number is

:37:05.:37:10.

something like 44% of our GDP is based on knowledge-intensive

:37:10.:37:15.

services and industry, which rests on the University sector and on the

:37:15.:37:20.

science budget that. Train through the economy, the route to growth I

:37:20.:37:23.

would contend rests on the university sector and the research

:37:23.:37:28.

and science budgets. If people don't back that philosophically and

:37:28.:37:34.

politically, we are in trouble. of MPs have previously worked in

:37:34.:37:38.

banking and accountancy. None the science. That's pretty shocking, is

:37:38.:37:44.

it not? Does medicine count? Good point. We did produce a Prime

:37:44.:37:53.

Minister who was qved. Qualified? Yes, a chemist.

:37:53.:37:58.

Hadron collider required the co- operation of Governments around the

:37:58.:38:02.

world. Don't you think it is remarkable that there was the

:38:02.:38:07.

understanding across the plan thaet this needed to be done? CERN was

:38:07.:38:13.

set up in the 1950s as one of the projects that would pursue

:38:13.:38:17.

knowledge for peaceful means. It is not as expensive as people think.

:38:18.:38:21.

CERN's entire budget out of which it built the large Hadron collide

:38:22.:38:26.

ser less than the budget of a medium-sized European university.

:38:26.:38:30.

You are talking about one extra university in the world which does

:38:30.:38:35.

a unique thing, to explore the early universe. Who is going to win

:38:35.:38:39.

the Nobel prize? I would expect there'll be a British noble el

:38:39.:38:44.

prize. Kite well be Peter Higgs, but the people who designed the

:38:44.:38:50.

machine, a lots of them were led by a British physicist. Lynn Evans

:38:50.:38:54.

would have a good claim to it. you think the harsh truth is that

:38:54.:38:59.

if scientists are to have the same access to Downing Street as bankers,

:38:59.:39:07.

you have to donate more money to political parties? We spent more

:39:07.:39:14.

money bailing out the banks than we have spent on science since Jesus.

:39:14.:39:20.

Just a drip of that budget would transform our economy. Why don't

:39:20.:39:28.

you stand for Parliament? Not much happens there does it? Don't you

:39:28.:39:32.

have to be Prime Minister at least until you can get anything done.

:39:32.:39:37.

Lord Sainsbury did. And he is a Lord. The only scientific knowledge

:39:37.:39:42.

in Parliament is in the House of Lords. It is going to be an

:39:42.:39:47.

interesting feature of Lords reform that when we move to choosing it by

:39:47.:39:53.

party list system, on a regional basis, all that scientific

:39:53.:39:57.

knowledge will go. Absolutely. The House of Lords reform is a

:39:57.:40:01.

catastrophe. It is an catastrophe and the worst of it is the method

:40:02.:40:05.

that's been chosen for the election, the one that hands all the power to

:40:05.:40:10.

the political parties and removes all power from the voters. I think

:40:10.:40:15.

the plan has been lobotomised a bit. Where you do stand on the plan?

:40:15.:40:20.

a great fan. I've never been a great fan of the Lords full stop.

:40:20.:40:24.

If you had proper devolution around Britain, and Europe treated

:40:24.:40:29.

properly with a proper partnership with Britain, could have a strong

:40:29.:40:33.

House of Commons and a completely different system. But under the

:40:33.:40:37.

present system for the House of Commons it is open for people with

:40:37.:40:41.

scientific knowledge to offer himself for Parliament. It is all

:40:41.:40:45.

very well for blaming Parliament and the Conservative Party, but it

:40:45.:40:49.

is open to scientists to put themselves forward. You might speak

:40:49.:40:53.

on evidence and it would make it difficult to get elected. That's a

:40:54.:40:58.

good point is. British science on a bit of a roll at the moment? Are we

:40:59.:41:03.

doing well? Are we, in that famous Foreign Office phrase, punching

:41:03.:41:08.

above our weight? Every statistic tells the us that we are the most

:41:08.:41:13.

efficient in the world by a long way, although we spend less than

:41:13.:41:20.

any other nation in GDP. We won two Nobel prizes in physics two years

:41:20.:41:28.

ago for the discovery of graphine. The Government has put �50 million

:41:28.:41:33.

into the research. David Cameron is not entirely speaking fictitiously

:41:33.:41:37.

when he says he is backing science. There is some evidence that it is

:41:37.:41:42.

beginning to sink in. Does this mean our universities, which face

:41:42.:41:46.

great competition from the much better funded American universities,

:41:46.:41:49.

and the rise of Chinese universities in the Far East, are

:41:49.:41:54.

they still holding their own? you look at the Shanghai ratings we

:41:54.:41:59.

do very well indeed. The I think it is because you can't buy a

:41:59.:42:05.

university system. It rests on hundreds of years actually of

:42:05.:42:08.

strong foundations. We've got that. It is one of the great assets of

:42:08.:42:13.

this country. We need to protect it. That's fine. We've had a lot of

:42:13.:42:17.

praise for science, rightly. I have a bone to pick with you. When I was

:42:18.:42:22.

a kid, science held out the prospect for me of a jet pack and I

:42:22.:42:32.
:42:32.:42:33.

still haven't got one. You can get those? You can? We even have

:42:33.:42:39.

teledeportation. Deportation. me up, Scotty! So we could have a

:42:39.:42:44.

jet pack now? We've got jet packs. They are not not very practical.

:42:44.:42:51.

don't care about that. And we are, the one when I saw Star Trek, the

:42:51.:42:59.

one thing I thought we would never have is telePorthation. Over a

:42:59.:43:03.

subatomic level, it's been done. Brian, thank you very much for

:43:03.:43:06.

being with us. That's your lot for tonight, folks.

:43:06.:43:09.

But not for us, because it's M6 Toll Road Pre-Olympic Panic Night

:43:09.:43:12.

at Annabel's. No doubt the police will arrive en masse to cordon the

:43:12.:43:15.

whole place off after Michael is reported making some highly

:43:15.:43:18.

suspicious moves on the dancefloor. But we leave you tonight with

:43:18.:43:20.

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