18/10/2012 This Week

Tonight This Week goes into Not quite a mission to the edge of

space, but is the Prime Minister taking a risk with the United

Kingdom, by agreeing a referendum on Scottish independence.

Tommy Sheridan knows a thing or two about risky business. David

Cameron's plans to keep the UK together are going to go into

freefall over the next two years and he is going to have a bumpy

landing when Scotland votes for independence.

And the big balloon debate, jumping out is one thing, but is it time

for the Chief Whip, Andrew Mitchell to be thrown out

John Pienaar is mixing his metaphors in the kitchen.

How is Cameron handling the heat in the kich kitchen? And is David

Cameron risking a taunt of abuse by joining Twitter or are our

politicians behind the times when it comes to selling their message.

Alastair Campbell thinks politicians don't know know which

way is up. The social media revolution is here,

and it is real and it is not going away and the politicians have got

to get with it. Rapper Sway is floating down into

Into the the This Week Studio. 90,000 followers and more. Beat

that Andrew. Good evening. Welcome to This Week,

the headless and legless chicken of BBC current affairs and believe me,

there are many shows vying for that title. Aren't there? Yes, you know

who you are. After three weeks of over choreographed party

conferences you try saying that at this time of night, we are back

into the swing of things at Westminster. With our very first

omnishambles of the new Parliamentary year.

CHEERING Yes, everything was looking so easy

this week. Unemployment down and inflation down. Retail sales up.

And Vince Cable under house arrest, what bliss it was to be a Tory in

coalition Government! Cue Call me Dave to step in and to commit the

Government to ordering electricity companies to giving us the lowest

energy tariff available. To say this came as a surprise would be an

under statement, especially to the Department of Energy who was more

in the dark about it all than it was about the three-day week, I am

joined by two men whose combined sexual energy is enough to power a

fully loaded milk float! Well, maybe not that much. The nuclear

disaster and reactor of late night TV and Michael Portillo. Your

moment of the week, Michael? Well, as the euro continues to come under

strain. There are those who say the thing to do is create a political

and economic union and they say that as though it was easy to do.

Actually it would be much more complicated than building a single

currency. A first step might be to put the banks into one European

supervision, but the Germans today said they don't want to have their

banks... They don't want the State banks. Another thing to do might be

to have a eurozone veto on excessive budgets in different

countries, but the French said they don't want to have a veto.

So at the first step towards this terrific objective of European

Union, either the Germans or the French used their veto which leaves

us with the alternative which is that the euro will fall apart.

You must be very disappointed it is going badly! Alistair, your moment?

The moment I spent imagining the heads shaking inside Number Ten and

the Department of Energy and Climate Change when David Cameron

announced a policy that he cannot announce and just I just cannot

fath hom how he can be in that position position where he

announces something which he must know he cannot do.

He began by saying, "I can announce today.". How often have we seen

this as Prime Minister's Questions? There is this idea that he is

making it up as he goes along, Michael.

We are in the delicious situation where the Conservatives are calling

for a State administer, price intervention by the State and

Labour is calling for more competition? Hold on, what was

interesting about the statement today, they had to dance around

what Cameron said because they can't possibly sustain it.

Right, speaking of Call me Dave, he bought a return ticket to Edinburgh

this week and signed up Scotland to a referendum and independence.

First Minister, Alex Salmond has as much chance of living the dream as

as Scotland have of winning the World Cup! The vote isn't for a New

Year and who know what is wee Jimmy and Jemima Cranky will be thinking.

Here is Tommy Sheridan. This is his You know in two years time, the

people of Scotland are going to have their democratic right to vote

for independence. The pundits in Westminster and the political

allies of Britain have written us off. We think they are in for a

shock. Mr Cameron and his clan have been

forced into a referendum on Scotland's future. They think they

can win it, but I think he is going to o to go down as the Prime

Minister that lost the Union. Because Mr Cameron screwed over the

Liberal Democrats with the referendum on voting reform and I

think he thinks ebb screw over the -- he can screw over the Scots. We

are a canny bunch and we are fed up Like a lot of socialists in

Scotland, I wasn't always for independence, but the British road

to socialism is unfortunately further off the agenda than ever

now and more and more people in Scotland realise if they want a

fairer, for equitable country it is going to be as an independent

country and that's why in two years I think more and more people are

going to embrace that change. Over the last decade the people of

Scotland have voted for patients that reject privatisation of our

public services. That support a publicly owned National Health

Service. That object to nuclear weapons. That's why over this next

two years, as the arguments unfold more and more Scots will realise if

they want a better and a fairer Scotland, they are going to have to

vote for independence in 2014. Despite Scotland's unparalleled

contribution to science, literature, we are often cast by the

southerners as nothing more than what gas munching -- hagas munching

kilt wearing ba bareians, I tell you what, we might just surprise

you in two years time in more ways What a horrible sight.

It is just as well we are after the watershed! Tommy Sheridan there. He

joins us now in Westminster. Highlander. The staff were pleasant

and helpful. I am sure they were. What will

happen between now and 2014 to make a majority of Scots vote for

independence? Well, there is going to be hopefully a mature debate,

Andrew. There will be less of the simpleised mudslinging that you are

not big enough, you are not strong enough and not intelligent enough

to stand on your two feet and more arguments about whether we can

maybe Scotland a better place, when the arguments are heard, people

will be convinced there is two political agendas, there is the

agenda which is Westminster-led which is privatisation, more and

more selling off of the family silver and in Scotland, we are

becoming a different country anyway because we voted for parties that

want to protect our Health Service, we voted for parties that are

opposed to nuclear weapons and illegal wars. Scotland is becoming

more and more different and as the arguments are heard more and more

people will say, "Hey, I think it is time for change." Particularly

among young people. The polls don't bear that out. The

polls don't tell you what is going to happen in two years time. But we

have been having this debate in Scotland since the 1970s and the

percentage of people who want independence does not change?

I don't agree with you... Well, the stakes are around 23%. Well, people

like me who were involved in the Labour Party for many years and the

Labour movement, then around about the 80s and the likes of Tony Benn

a man of great principle, we thought there is a British road to

social justice justice. There is a British road to socialism. Just

frankly after Alistair's friend Tony took over the Labour Party and

expelled clause four from it, there was no prospect of a British road

to socialism and more and more people realised if you really want

a more equitable campaign. Is that what Alex Salmond is

campaigning for? Me and Alex will have a difference of... What is the

Scotland that is going to be after ap referendum if you win?

people of Scotland will decide, Alistair.

They have to decide beforehand. Your vision of what independence

will lead to is different to his. You want The Queen out of the way.

You want the pound out of the way. You want NATO out of the way.

Here. Here. He is saying you are getting none

of that. The Scottish people, the reason why the polls are going down

this week is because the Scottish people are starting to realise

actually this is vote for anything and now that you are having to

answer serious questions, you are not going to, you get the right

answers, you have been banging on about the pound pound, for example.

What Alex and I agree on is the people of Scotland should decide

what an independent Scotland should look like. Me, I want a republic.

Me, I want us out of NATO. I don't think we should be in the European

Union. Your agenda can never win for the

Labour Party. We will be able to argue in 2016 for that type of sort

of a mixed market type of approach. I will be able to argue for a

socialist approach. The most important thing is the people of

Scotland will decide for themselves because we are big enough and

mature enough. Let me bring in our Spanish person

here. You are a fan of Alex Salmond. Whose side are you on here? Well, I

think Alex Salmond is not to be under estimated. It is not

impossible that he could per persuade the Scottish people. The

absence of a substantial figure in any other party who made his or her

career in Scotland is a big problem, alhee alAlistair Darling is going

to lead the unionist campaign, he chose to lead his career outside of

Scotland. The irony is if Scotland does achieve independence, it is

the thing that will save Scotland from socialism because socialism is

only made possible on the fantastic scale in which it is applied in

Scotland today by English subsidy. Only 12% of Scots pay more in than

they take out. If Scotland was on its own, Scotland would have to

become a Celtic Tiger. Would have to become a low tax economy and do

what Ireland did before and half of Alex Salmond knows that. So... I

teeter on being the brink of a Tory Scottish Nationalist.

Go to the Better Together Campaign. We welcome the support for status

quo. Your quigs are re-- figures are ridiculous in relation to the

12% and don't count public sector workers. Thousands and and

thousands of public sector workers who pay tax and you just exclude

them. The truth is Scotland is sustainable as a mixed market,

small country economy. I think it is also sustainable as a socialist

economy because I think we could publicly own our oil and publicly

own our electricity and gas could publicly own our railways. That's

the model that we should pursue. want to ask you this. Putting aside

your views of why you want independence, will it be decided on

whether or not Scots think they would be better off if they leave

I think that's part of it. Alex Salmond is a canny politician. All

the polls you talk about, they are predicting a Labour victory in the

Scottish Parliament elections. What happened was the SNP didn't just

win, they won an overall majority, that wasn't supposed to happen at

all under the Scotland Act. I would be very, very careful about

overplaying the polls. What I think will happen over the next two years

which will persuade Scots to vote for independence is the British

economy is going into a nose-dive, more and more Public Services will

be slashed in order to feed the austerity programme and more and

more Scots will be saying to themselves, this mob are saying

we'll be worse off if we go for independence, but how much worse

off can we be, we are in a mess just now. Is it all economics,

Alastair, or was there a renaissance of Britishness during

the Olympics, which includes the Scots who won the medals. It was

Alex Salmond's nightmare to see them in the Union Flag. It could be

more than just economics. Is there life many the old dog yet of

Britishness? Yes, I think there is. I certainly think ultimately people

will decide whether it's better for them and their families and the

economics of that will be very important. It's good that Alistair

Darling is leading the campaign because he'll tear the arguments

apart, some of them. Emotion does play a big part in this. But I

think that the reason - I know why Salmond's decided to play it long -

but I think two years is a long time for Tommy to promote one

vision of an independent Scotland, Salmond to do another. There's a

Tory businessman out this week saying he supports it because he

thinks Scotland will back a tax haven like Switzerland. The public

will get confused and Tommy's point about the economy and you say going

to a nose-dive, I think people will feel reluctant to go it alone when

you have had Alex Salmond saying we are going to be Ireland and Iceland

and Norway, he never says we are going to be Scotland economically

independent and you don't want the pound being set by the Bank of The

detested England do you, but he now does and it's confusing as to what

you are all saying. It's interesting, you hear all this talk

about the countries going into nose-dive and Iceland and Ireland.

Iceland has used it to its advantage, it's rewritten its

constitution, it's began to rediscover Public Services and it's

putting some bankers who caused the problem into geo which is great.

How many countries in the world now aren't bankrupt? America is

bankrupt, the most powerful nation on the earth and it's bankrupt. So

this idea that you somehow can't stand on your own two feet because

of the economic problems is nonsense. What will happen more and

more is people are going to realise, wait a wee minute, if you look at

what's happening in Westminster, they are privatising the Health

Service, we in Scotland want to retain a public Health Service and

Public Services. The only way to do that is to vote for independence.

Holyrood already controls the Health Service so why do you need

independence? Because Westminster is cutting the block grant to try

and force the Scottish Parliament to implement cuts which will

undermine our Health Service. We are out of time! Excuse me, I

want to ask you - everything runs out - we've run out of tiefplt yes

or no, will Scotland vote for independence? No. No. You will say

yes? Absolutely. Run out of time. Tommy Sheridan, thank you for being

with us. It's late, past yours and our bedtime. Grab a torch and spade

and go and dig up Jimmy Savile's grave or stick with us as we dig

ourselves into a political hole - we probably just did with that joke.

Call me Dave is still refusing to divulge his personal e-mails and

texts to Rebekah Brooks, wouldn't we like to see those, we believe in

full disclosure, so if you want to engage with the adult mind of the

average Blue Nun drinker, you can do so on the Twitter or the tax

free Fleecebook and the good old interweb. Now, it's been a week of

hydra that and nail-biting competition. That's just the Great

British Bake Off final! We don't really want to see too much of

Alastair's crust and nothing of Michael's soggy bottom, but we have

been glueed to the warm and friendly contest, we have hardly

had a chance to check on the highs and lows of Westminster. We turned

to an expert and turned to Five Live's John Pienaar to see what's

I love this show. Don't you? It's like the Olympics, except welcome

all join in, if only you could cook. Genuinely nice people in fierce

competition, just like Westminster. Watch this. What a moment to be

whipping up - thank you very much - get on with it you (BLEEP) pleb,

you best know your (BLEEP) place, who wrote this, Gordon Ramsay, no,

it's the Chief Whip who's in trouble, he'd be in worse trouble,

except David Cameron won't let anyone pit his kitchen Cabinet. Ed

Miliband did his best to stir it up a bit by goading Cameron to sack

the Chief Whip. According to the official police report and I quote

"A man claiming to be the Chief Whip called the police plebs, told

them they should know their place and use other abusive language --

used other offensive language.". Did the Chief Whip use those words?

What he did and said was wrong and he should apologise. Good to see

the Cabinet in their place supporting him in public but in the

newspapers, what are they saying in private. His position is untenable,

in other words, he's toast. He may be toast, but it looks like he's

got stuck in the toaster. The MPs that Andrew Mitchell is meant to be

keeping in line know he's left a bad taste in the public's mouth.

And drew Mitchell - but losing him now would be like giving the game

to Labour and the Police Federation -- Andrew Mitchell. Like James in

the Bake Off final with his disastrous chiffon cake, Andrew

Mitchell can't win. Ah, Scottish dumplings, Welsh rare

bit, Ulster breakfast and English tea. Two years from now, shortbred

from Scotland could be a foreign delicacy. Don't underestimate Alex

Salmond, he's a MasterChef champion in a kitchen. One in-out question

in the Scottish referendum and mark that down to David Cameron. The

nationalists have two years to turn around the polls and 16 and 17-

year-olds are supposed to be getting the votes. Now that is one

for the old MasterChef of the SNP, to work with! I used to have in my

notes which no doubt came from the special advisers saying, do not

look triumphalist, so in this press conference, I'm doing my absolute

best not to look triumphalist. You want to be the Prime Minister

that keeps the United Kingdom together, but I believe in showing

respect to people in Scotland, the people of Scotland voted for a

party that wanted to have a referendum on independence. I've

made sure, showing them respect, that we can have that referendum.

They are not rising, you know, they are not rising. A lot rests on this.

The shape of the British economy, balance of political power across

England and Wales, the future of the union, David Cameron is a

committed unionist, but Labour stands to lose most if all those

Scottish seats melt away. It will probably come down in the end to

where the Scots feel better off. All of this looks simple compared

to finding out how and why Jimmy Savile got away with what he did.

The BBC, hospitals, the police. There's a long list of institutions

in the frame and an even longer list of inquiries to say nothing of

the attitudes of past decades. Ed Miliband wanted more.

These are horrific allegations. Now, I think in order to do right by the

victims, I don't think the BBC can lead their own inquiry. If politics,

or for that matter the Bake Off was a popularity contest, Theresa May

would have it sorted out hot on a tray, especially with the Tory

right-wing. They loved her announcement about repatriating

powers over justice. We will opt out of all pre-Lisbon police and

criminal justice and then negotiate with the commission and other

member states to opt back into those individual measures which it

is our national interest to rejoin. If that wasn't sweet enough, there

was the announcement finally about the expedition of Gary McKinnon,

what a mess! The Americans wanted him back there to face trial for

hacking into Pentagon and defence department compute,, an independent

report found that the expedition -- extradition system was fair, much

of Fleet Street asked Theresa May to stand up to the pushy powers of

Washington. What to do? Sometimes the discreet, the wise, the

politically astute move is to serve up something sweet.

I have concluded that Mr McKinnon's extradition would give rise to such

a high risk of him ending his life that a decision to extradite would

be incompatible with his human rights. I have therefore withdrawn

the extradition order against Mr McKinnon. The US were perfectly

within their rights and it was reasonable of them to seek his ex

tradition. We do not know whether Gary McKinnon will ever have to

face justice. Bakers, that is it, that's time. I

mean it. Keeping ahead of the competition is about style, as much

as substance, making every litling thing go as far as possible.

This week's fall in unemployment took some of the edge off Labour's

attack. What do you think? really does look stunning. We have

a lovely shine on top. Should be praised for the look of it. Very

professional. Well done. Thank you, Mary. Still, all's fair in love,

war and baking. Maybe a bit of salt in the sugar bowl.

That was John Pienaar, with You Make A Cake in Wandsworth. He

brought the cakes back and we've been eating them today. Miranda

Green, good to see you. Do the Liberal Democrats care whether the

Chief Whip stays or goes? I think it's a bit of an awful distraction

for the Government. As John was saying in his film, you have the

awkward situation where the more the Labour Party call for him to go,

the more David Cameron's forced to hold on to him against his better

judgment one hopes. Do their care? We, -- well, you know, anything

that distracts from what the Government's trying to do, you have

a whole conference season, if you are back to this again it's not

great. It's remarkable how to story's going. Forget the rights

and wrongs, if you were in your old jb and the Prime Minister was in

this position, wouldn't you be telling him, don't sacrifice him

and give the media or the opposition a scalp? It's got to the

stage where everyone's got a say in this, they've had a say, David

Cameron has, the police have and Ed Miliband has. I thought when the

police were in his constituency, I felt they were pushing it too far,

I felt, and it strives me that David Cameron is not going to get

rid of him, so unless anything new emerges, I suspect it won't go away.

The big problem is when the police are off side. If there's one group

of people you really don't want off side for a long time it's the

police. The police or the Police Federation? It's the police. The

Olympics, when I was there one dairbgs I was amazed at this

policeman who I never met in my life before and he said to me,

there are things about the Government that you would not

believe and he was saying things I cannot say tonight about pensions,

conditions, about a sense that they are not respected by the Government.

I think that's kind of out there with the police and this is just

underlining that. Of course, in a politically very toxic kind of way.

For Labour, it's the gift that keeps on giving. Perfectly

understandable Labour's going the right thing. That's what

oppositions do. The media sees a story, it won't give up and it

resonates, we see everything through a glass prism in Britain.

This is a perfect story for it. I suggest the story wouldn't have the

legs it's got if his own side weren't so disloyal about him too.

He has very few friend on the Tory side in That's right. There was a

briefing about it at the Party Conference. At a meeting this week

at Conservative backbenchers, the meeting was obviously well

orchestrated. Four MPs spoke against him and a large number

spoke in favour of him. I think that's also now out of the way. I

agree with Alastair, everybody's had their say, the people's not

going to get rid of him. We'll move on to something more important -

Europe. Miranda, let's replease recently, Mr Gove talking about

life outside the EU unless the Europeans give us back lots of our

powers, it's David Cameron saying but not implying I'll give you a

referendum. The Government policy or Conservative side to opt out of

EU measures on law and order and others. What is your party making

on all of this? Clearly those are not positions that are Liberal

Democrat positions, are they. I worked out. Jolly good. That's

why they pay you the big bucks. They do?! I think what it seems to

me is that this is the moment when fear of UKIP in the Tory party

starts to effect the British national interest. I don't see how

you can look at this proposition on opting out of EU justice powers and

take it seriously. You are talking about people smuggling, drug

trafficking, money laundering, fraud, all the things on which we

really rely, like anti-terrorism. Today we are reminded that the

number of children, sex slaves et cetera being trafficked into this

country is rising. We need these powers. How do you do it? You have

to fight terrible rear guard actions within the coalition don't

you. One thing I believe Nick Clegg and David Cameron agree on is the

desirability of trying to keep the financial contributions to the EU

ch U budget down. Anything else? They agree on the other EU policies,

but how you should negotiate from within the EU. You have to be in

there arguing your case inside. With the exception of Ken Clarke,

the Tories in Parliament are a wholly Euro-Sceptic party and if

anything they are more than that, Mr David Cameron's under huge

pressure and he doesn't quite know what to do, I would suggest, which

is why kind of words like a fresh mandate, not saying referendum,,

but what does he do? The Cabinet is Euro-Sceptic to a man, with the

exception of Ken Clarke, but that's not the same as saying they want to

leave the European Union. This lot are not going to give the British

public a vote on saying in or out. They'll stir things up, hinting

that there might be a referendum and they might put their foot down.

Where does that lead to? It will lead to another lot of

disappointment because people are not going to get a referendum any

time soon. By that, I mean, the con's position is we can't have a

referendum until the eurozone issue's settled down -- Cameron.

Way through the next election? the decade I don't think. It will

be postponed. It takes you to the strategic question, is David

Cameron about positioning the party on the middle ground which is the

point at which he won the leadership of the Conservative

Party. And his speech suggested he wants to be. Or is he now, not only

with the euro thing, but also with the burglars charter, appealing for

the vote on the right. You might say he's trying to do both, but

actually, the signal is confused. What should Labour do on the Europe

issue? They must be sensible. must be some voices saying, "We

could scorch the Tories." My worry about Cameron, he is stumbling

along. To have Michael Gove saying that he doesn't mind if we come out

of Europe and for there to be no pence of sush -- Spence of push

back back -- sense of push back from Cameron.

It was done through a special advisor. Wouldn't you all be like

headless chickens in 2014 if UKIP come first and your lot come fifth?

You have to with stand it. This is right. You have to keep

arguing for what you think is in the the national interests.

That's not going to happen. Greens have won in the European

elections before. Yes, you may sacrifice 4% of the

national vote to UKIP in a general election, but it is important to go

for 10 or 15% in the middle ground of politics.

My hope is Cameron, he is there there long enough to know he has to

do a lot of work at that level with the other leaders and the idea of

Britain being out of that is catastrophic.

The voice of moderation is William Hague. He has gone native in the

Foreign Office and the Tory Euro- sceptics are furious. Is Theresa

May in danger of becoming a descent Home Secretary? She has shown great

resilience. We have been using the word, "Under estimating." I thought

the decision on McKinnon was wrong. It is terrible to see a politician

trying to decide an issue about that. It was another hit with the

Conservative Party. Miranda, good to see you again.

It is not so long since Call me Dave declared too many he tweets

make a twit. The Prime Minister's U-turn on Twitter makes him very

much part of the twit gang. Hey, Call me Dave, welcome. We are all

twits here. The way politicians get their message across is changing.

Not everyone is keeping up! No names! We asked a man with far

too much time on his hands, Alastair Campbell to give us 140

reasons why politicians need to get with it. We put political

# I'm in with the in crowd # I go with the in crowd #

David Cameron has joined the Twitter revolution swi not a bad

move because now there are ten million people in Britain on

Twitter and just nine people reading a newspaper every day.

The only thing is I am not sure that he really gets it. I looked at

his account, he follows 35 people on Twitter 32 Tory MP, one Tory MSP,

one Tory mayor, we can guess who that is, and the official Tory

account! It is not really what Twitter is about!

What it is about, is genuine engagement, not the political

leaders talking to the plebs, but genuine interaction between

politician and public. And what it means for the politicians is you

have got to let go of control and this is a control freak speaking

here! You can't control where the message lands. You can only control

what you say and what you do. As to where it goes, it can go anywhere.

The truth is that none of the parties in Britain have used social

media very well. But They are going to have to. It was a big factor in

the Arab Spring. It is huge in the current American presidential

election and the chances are the 2015 election campaign in the UK

will be the first genuine social media election. That was Alastair

Campbell there and there is two of them. We cloned him. He he is still

here. Sway. Welcome. Good to see you sir.

Tell us how important social media is for you? I think social media is

a great thing. It allows me to engage with the fans. It allows me

to find out what they like about my music. It helps me know the

direction of the kind of campaigns I should be going on and it reveals

to me the kind of areas around the world that are into my music and

where I should be touring. Would it be true to say it is not

just a hobby or a luxury, it is an essential part of zg what you do --

part of doing what you do? My my Twitter followers, I have been

fortunate to have loyal followers and intelligent followers who give

me genuine feedback about my music and I wake up in the morning, I say

a prayer, I might speak to a friend and gi to Twit -- and I go to

Twitter. To catch up what they have been

saying and doing overnight? They give me so much positive energy

about my music that if I get like a positive phrase from somewhere, I

like to tweet that. People retweet it. It builds up a good

communication. It is a generational thing. There

is a generation now coming up which has known nothing but social media.

For them it is like falling off a log. It is difficult particularly

when politician are from an older generation to work out what it is

about. He thinks, by that I mean Mr Portillo, he thinks that Twitter is

a waste of time. Tell him why he is wrong. It might be a waste of time

for Mr Portillo, but for me... There is a quicker way to

communicate with 100,000 people, you know, from your phone then you

know so be it, but I find Twitter to be nice for me.

Michael? I think that Twitter does not change the attitude that people

have to politicians so the Prime Minister tweeting, the Prime

Minister is not going to be believed. The Prime Minister is not

going to be liked anymore than he is believed or is liked when he

chune kates from -- communicates through television. Most people's

impression of television are still perceived through television

because they don't ever meet the fella. I agree social media has an

enormous secondary effect or a second-hand effect in politics so

you make a gaffe and it goes on YouTube or is retweeted there is a

huge echo, but the potential for someone in the position of the

Prime Minister who is an established figure at a time when

politicians don't enjoy a lot of trusts his -- trust, his

communities are limited. Positive stuff gets retweeted.

Barack Obama has 21 million followers. If he puts up a link and

even if 10% have a read, that's going to get a bigger reach than

him being on television. The thing about David Cameron, he thinks he

has to be on television all the time and he keeps popping up on

television in a non strategic way. This issue today. This issue

tomorrow. Never joining it tomorrow. If you use Twitter properly and the

public are good at working it out, I have 180,000 followers and John

Prescott has lots of followers and both he and I use it in a similar

way. Alex Salmond Has only got 27,000 followers and it is because

it is just an extens of his press office and I think if you are, I

know you are in a different position, if I was an elected

politician now I would see Twitter in the way you do.

People who want our vote are going to have to use social media? I have

to disagree with you and say that like if the Prime Minister was to

be tweeting more often, I don't follow the Prime Minister on

Twitter, I don't know if he tweets often, but if he was to maybe

people would see him for as a person as opposed to a political

figure. Maybe if he tweeted what he was doing at the week, people could

relate to him more as opposed to him about the law and different

strategies of the country. People want to see a person and that's

what makes Twitter so... Barack Obama tweeted a picture of a T-

shirt somebody was wearing at within of his rallies. It was an

interesting way. The T-shirt had a message and it got out there.

Are you really saying that come the next election, I mean, don't forget

there was a lot of talk about how important social media was going to

be in the last election, in 2010? It was important.

It was steam TV debates that dominated the electoral - are you

going to say that social media is going to be more important in 2015

than the national press and network TV? They are coming together as

part of the same thing. You take the American presidential debate.

The first one, 10.3 million tweets during 90 minutes and when people

said "Obama lost and Romney won." They did it based on what people

were saying on Twitter. That's the new world of social

media. It seizes to be a differential thing. Things come

from on high and it is a two-way process and you are part - it is

part of you getting words and ideas and people reacting? I found

Alistair and Sway very persuasive and it has been an education.

Are you going to go on Twitter? might!

Result! We did it! Many, many people asked it.

Follow me at Sway UK. If he doesn't follow you, we will

have him followed by two Glaswegians!

You wouldn't want that to happen. What are you up to, sway? I am

working on my new single. It fe fures Mr Hudson -- features Mr

Hudson. Make sure you follow me on Twitter.

If I follow you, can I get your followers? I am sure they will

follow you as well. You can keep the energy up. Are you into hip-hop

yourself? Hip-hop, I invented it! Thanks for being with us. Good luck

with the new single. That's your lot. It is swingers night at

Annabel's and although Tommy cried off, the rest of us are looking

forward to it. Michael brought his two foot loofer with him, no wonder

Alistair is looking worried. We leave you with two men who are

trying a little too hard to give the impression that they don't like

each other! Nightie-night, don't let the presidential tension bite!

# I have been waiting so long # I finally found someone