25/10/2012 This Week


25/10/2012

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As 007 hits the big screen, Week has a feast of beautiful women,

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fast cars and lots of action. As the baddie makes a comeback, the

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BBC and his Director-General are on the firing line. John Sergeant has

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the scandal in his sights. What is it about the BBC management that

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makes them so difficult to understand? As England's badgers

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live to die another day, does Her Majesty's Government believe that

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shambles are forever. Anne McElvoy spies an opportunity. Good evening,

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Mr Neil. A long way to go before While James Bond continues to have

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his quota of beautiful women, are other women not getting their fair

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share? Shappi Khorsandi talks press disand our inability to live and

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let live. I am not interested in being a Bond girl, but a Neil girl.

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Now you're talking! The name's Week - This Week. A

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Evening all. Welcome to This Week. Ringing the bell for political last

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orders in a final round of froth and innuendo, with wildly

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inaccurate Westminster predictions. Andrew Mitchell, safe as houses -

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yeah! And tasteless crimes against high fashion and common decency.

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We're not the only programme being accused of highly questionable

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editorial decisions. National creep, Jimmy Savile, the BBC has in time-

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honoured fashion got a firing squad and is pulling the trigger on

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itself. Panorama led the way on Monday w the typically robust

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allegation into Newsnight. Given the BBC's love of self-flagellation

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and the urge to purge, it was only the start. As we speak tonight,

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Blue Peter has launched an urgent investigation to Newsround. Homes

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Under The Hammer are investigating cash in if attic. I am leading a --

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Cash In The Attic. I am leading an investigation into my behaviour on

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the Sunday Politics. They are investigating why This Week dropped

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Diane Abbott from the sofa. There's no mystery about it - as always,

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with Diane, it was all about the Benjamins! Speaking of those, who

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are next in line to be droped in the preverbial by the Director-

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General, I am joined by a fraud and a fraudster, both living in total

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denial. Let's call them the Conrad Blacks - AJ Johnson and sad man on

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a train, Michael Cho-cho Portillo. A terrible week for the Government

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which made a mess of one thing after the other. All the flak moved

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on to the BBC. It would have been a good time for the Government to go

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quiet and all the preverbial what not hitting the fan. The Culture

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Secretary intervenes to remind the BBC there is a question of public

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trust. You would have thought that the BBC and public would not need

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reminding of what deep do--do the BBC found themselves in. Patten was

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able to write a fierce letter, saying the Government would not

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want to question the independenceance of the BBC. You

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wonder what it is about the Government that when it sees a

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clear run, when it sees an opportunity to stay out of the

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spotlight, stay out of the flying stuff, you know, it immediately

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inserts itself in the way of all the flying stuff. Very interesting.

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Alan, your moment? I hope you will explain why you have put these

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horrid ties on us! There's nothing wrong with my tie.

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It's rather posh! That's enough. There'll be a

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competition. Anyone in public life, who thinks

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you can go in front of a select committee without being briefed and

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without being rehearsed is in for a shock. My colleagues and Michael's

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ex-colleagues who are sometimes very gentle and nice people turn

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into demons in that room. I just thought that was an example - leave

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aside whether it was the BBC or someone else - walking in there,

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apparently unaware of what was coming. It was horrible to watch.

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They all have a fantasy the MPs - it goes back to... Of the Watergate

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investigate. Of the mid-1950s. is interesting you both choose the

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BBC as your moment of the week which shows we are still in the

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news. Newsnight was rocked by some shocking events, not the

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investigations by its best friends at Panorama. Much worse than that -

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Jeremy Paxman has been on air without a tie!

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Some have wondered whether his belt and laces have been taken away too!

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We nipped into.... Well, it is serious. We nipped into Jeza's

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locker, obviously Panorama gives the keys and pill fered some of his

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finest pieces of Pollyiest ta! -- of material. At least, the BBC's

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Director-General, God bless you, Sir, God bless you, wore a tie when

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he appeared before the Commons select committee this week. The DJ

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told him he knew next to nothing of the investigation into Jimmy Savile,

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even though at the time he was director of vision.

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That's television to you and me. We asked former BBC stalwart, John

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Sergeant, to give us his take of When I first became a BBC reporter

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more than 40 years ago, someone said to me, but you don't write

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your scripts do you? When I said I did, he said, "But, someone tells

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you what to write, don't they?" he simply would not believe it when I

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said, that's not the case. So, I wasn't surprised at the

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incredulous, mystifyed response from some people to the evidence

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given to the parliamentary committee by the Director-General,

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George Entwistle. Appalling, absurd, incompetent - he should resign,

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they said. But on the basis of what he said on Monday, the Director-

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General should certainly not resign. He was simply explaining how the

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D It may seem complicated and in many ways it is. Being responsible

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for 2,000 journalists is never going to be easy or simple. The

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Director-General is the Editor in Chief. But if he, or she, becomes

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too closely involved t staff may become frightened, making them too

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careful, or too cautious. During the Second World War, the

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British Army gave its tank commanders, particularly, as much

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free reign as possible. They called the shots. It made them more

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confident. It made them more effective. This system of command

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and control was adopted by the BBC. The bosses here are always careful

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about not intervening too much. When George Entwistle took the view

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that the Newsnight investigation might not be broadcast, it wasn't

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surprising that he didn't inquir further. The BBC management have

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one objective - to maintain the independence of the BBC.

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This unique organisation has developed its own way to deal with

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any eventuality. What other media company would allow one group of

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journalists, in Panorama, to report on another group, in Newsnight,

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without even allowing the Director- General to see the report before it

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was broadcast? So, does that mean the BBC system is perfect? Of

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course not. Mistakes, sometimes serious ones, as on this occasion,

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are made. Newsnight should have run that report. And most important of

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all, for years and years, Jimmy Savile should not have been invited

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here to Television Centre, as an honoured guest, he should have been

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arrested. And from the BBC to, well, the BBC.

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John Sergeant, welcome. I knew we would get you on eventually. Is

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John Simpson, the famous BBC world affairs editor, is he right when he

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says this is the worst crisis in the BBC for 50 years? Is that

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wrong? I know Chris Patten said it was the worst in his career, which

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I find very difficult to understand. I really think that if you think of

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the row that there was over sexing up the document and the Iraq war -

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that was - that was a clash between the BBC and the Government. That

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resulted in one Director-General going and a real moment, and a

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chairman going. So the idea this is the worse crisis. What is horrible

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is this ghastly affair of Savile. It is endless behaviour which the

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BBC and these other institutions seem to have either ignored or in

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fact covered up. That is serious. That is very serious. Michael, do

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you think it is the worst crisis for 50 years? No, I agree, I think

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the Hutton was the big one for exactly the reasons John Sergeant

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says. Nonetheless, I think it is a big problem and I think John just

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now made a very interesting explanation of George Entwistle's

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answers. Most people will not perceive it in that way. Most

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people will think it is extraordinary that when the BBC was

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going to broadcast tributes to Jimmy Savile and he was informed

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there was an investigation into Jimmy Savile, most people find it

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extraordinary he did not ask the question. What should it have been?

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The question should have been - what does this concern? How serious

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is this? Even though you may be pulling it, is there enough in it

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to make me worried I am doing all tributes over Christmas? Exactly.

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The big question is not... I am going to retract that. They are

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both big questions. Why Newsnight was pulled. The other is why were

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the tributes broadcast? Leerveing aside all of these allegations, he

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was the most talentless idiot on television ever. I don't think it

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is the biggest crisis. On balance, I think Newsnight was probably

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pulled not because of the Christmas tribute programmes but because

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there was a fear they would not be able to stand it up. I think John's

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analysis was very interesting as to how the BBC worked. It is the first

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time I have understood Entwistle's position. He was criticised for

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lack of curiousty. What John is saying is this crucial point about

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independence leads to a certain timidity in the organisation by the

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people at the top, which could be portrayed as timidity. What they

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tend to do, is if there is a possibility of avoiding a decision,

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the wise BBC boss does not then move in. He doesn't think, oh, well

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I better get involved any way because I might have to make a

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decision. Their instincts are, right, if it may not be broadcast

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and that is what Entwistle said, people did not understand that.

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They thought, well surely he would be interested in a Jimmy Savile

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sorry. No, he wouldn't. He is thinking of other things. People

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say, there is an investigation going on. Do I have to deal with it

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now? I don't. Let's move on. If you are not in an organisation like the

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BBC, you cannot believe that. Gosh, wouldn't that be interesting,

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fascinating? No, not for him Head of Vision. Not at all interesting.

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Would the Christmas schedules be so important, that he would

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immediately think, "My, goodness this could wreck my Christmas

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schedule." The BBC has hours it could replace it with instantly.

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The thought that, oh, my goodness me, my lovely work will be ruined.

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That is why I said in the piece how difficult it is for people to

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understand this. If you are not part of it you don't see the whole

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organisation, it does seem mysterious.

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Every media organisation, worth its salt, should get into trouble every

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now and then. The problem is, how do you handle it? The structure of

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the BBC makes it difficult. It is so big - the way we have handled it

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- it feels out of control. No-one seemed to know the whole picture.

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No-one knows where the story is going. That has made it worse for

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The way it has come out the editor of Newsnight appears to have been

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hanged. We have not heard his version of the story. So the

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Director General is put in a weird position where he implies that here

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is the guy who is going to tape the rap for this. But if he overdoes

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that, people are going to say, hang on a moment, he hasn't even given

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his evidence to the inquiry. You can't say, you know what? I called

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this guy in and he went through it Immediately shown the door Appears

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that at the end for's blog was challenged the day after it was

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first published and it was first published on October 4th and Chris

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Patten wasn't informed until October 21st, so this looks very

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incompetent. I was reminded of this today, that all large organisations

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are very incompetent. I was reminded today because someone is

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selling administratery arch and when I was Secretary of State for

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defence I was accused of selling Admiralty Arch. Ways in Japan at

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the time. It asked my press officer and it took them 48 hours for them

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to discover that we didn't even own Admiralty Arch. Let me try to

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inject some reality into this. Your moments of the week were on the BBC.

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We are talking about the BBC and Jimmy Savile. Can I remind you and

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our viewers that the real story isn't the BBC in this. The biggest

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casualty of the BBC taking centre stage is that this is a story about

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the evil abuse of an evil man and other people were almost certainly

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complicit. What temperature BBC did with e-mails to Newsnight or

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Panorama, it pales into insignificant compared to what Mr

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Savile was up to. Absolutely. There's a frenzy here. Mark

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Thompson is supposed to not take up his new job in New York. I read

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tonight that that is not true. But you are right there was speculation.

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George Entwistle is suddenly calling for his head, Patten

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calling for his head. At the heart of this is a vile and evil man. The

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allegations against him and the more we learn about it the more

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evil and nasty he was. It wasn't just a cultural thing from the

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early 1970s. It was far more evil than that. The newspapers are

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putting bell oes into this. They got a kicking at Leveson. They

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think at the BBC we enjoyed that too much and now it is our turn.

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The what if George Entwistle had come across as a dynamic and

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amazing charisma character saying, don't worry, I will sort this out.

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They would have taken him apart wouldn't they? Who is this arrogant

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man who walks in and says, "Ly sort this out." He's only been there 11

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days. We know that in Broadcasting House and other buildings it is BBC

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journalists who are taking up the knives and the axes and every

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weapon they can lay their hands on, because they are not that fond of

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their management. In the best traditions of tabloid journalism,

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what senior heads will roll. don't know. I hope it is not the

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Director General or the chairman. Michael? If I can say I hope not, I

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will say I hope not. John? The news managers are have got a case to

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answer. If this independent inquiries finds e-mails, there's a

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lots that could come out. On the face of it, the Director General

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and the chairman, they are well in the clear. You say that John but

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these two said from in the clear. said Andrew Mitchell should go!

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head of the, the head is lying at the bottom of the guillotine within

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24 hours, so there could be some worried people tonight. John, thank

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you. Good to see you. It may be late, but don't disappear

:19:32.:19:36.

into thin air like Alex Salmond's legal advice. It turns out it was

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written in invisible ink. Very clever. Stick with us in full view,

:19:44.:19:47.

because coming up, comedian Shappi Khorsdandi is in the wings

:19:47.:19:50.

anxiously waiting to find out what the hell we're talking about next!

:19:50.:19:53.

And given that it's open season on the BBC at the moment, why not

:19:53.:19:56.

shoot some This Week fish in a barrel, on The Twitter, the

:19:56.:20:03.

overvalued Fleecebook, and the Interweb. Everyone else is. Why

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shouldn't you? Now, they say if you want a friend

:20:06.:20:09.

in Washington, get a dog. I guess the same could be said about

:20:09.:20:12.

Westminster, because loyalty can be hard to find here as well. Although

:20:12.:20:14.

perhaps call-me-Dave showed a little too much towards Andrew

:20:14.:20:17.

Mitchell before the chief snob's Cabinet career was eventually put

:20:17.:20:22.

down last Friday. Sorry, I mean "went to live on a farm" Well, as

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you know, we're always on the scent for a good story, so we turned to

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The Economist's Anne McElvoy and her faithful friend, Peter the

:20:28.:20:38.
:20:38.:20:59.

French bulldog, for their roundup It is a very stressful day for

:20:59.:21:06.

Peter the French bulldog and for me drafted in as the new incarnation

:21:06.:21:10.

of Barbara Woodhouse this week. Peter is about to be put through

:21:10.:21:16.

his paces at the Westminster dog of the year show. The dogs we'll be

:21:16.:21:22.

judging on that and not their MP owners.

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It has been a testing time for others too. Cameron and Co were

:21:29.:21:33.

derided by Norman Tebbit, that dear old Rottweiler of the Tory Party,

:21:33.:21:38.

as a dog of the coalition Government. The attack dogs were

:21:38.:21:43.

released on George Entwistle. Would coo it be that the pedigree

:21:43.:21:48.

executive pack had lost its nose for a story in the sad story of

:21:48.:21:51.

Jimmy Savile? I don't know the answer to that question. Have you

:21:51.:21:58.

not asked that question? Are you going ask that question? I will.

:21:58.:22:05.

Are there any questions you would like to be prompted to ask that you

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haven't asked yourself? Did someone bark an order from above or, as one

:22:11.:22:16.

of the reporters suggested, was it a long political chain which got

:22:16.:22:21.

yanked? Committee still don't know the truth, but the BBC's top dog

:22:22.:22:25.

talked about processes and structure which is somehow

:22:25.:22:30.

prevented him from asking what on earth was going on. You are told

:22:30.:22:34.

that one of the flagship investigative programmes on the BBC

:22:34.:22:39.

is looking into one of the most iconic figures that you are going

:22:39.:22:44.

to issue huge tributes to and you didn't want to know? What was in my

:22:44.:22:53.

mind was this determination not to show an undub interest. But we are

:22:53.:23:03.
:23:03.:23:10.

all interested now in the story of But we old Westminster newshounds

:23:11.:23:15.

now it is never long in the BBC feud before the politician try to

:23:15.:23:20.

dig Apple juicy bone. And who is this? The freshly minted Culture

:23:20.:23:25.

Secretary Maria Miller bounding on to the scene. These are very

:23:25.:23:28.

serious allegations and it is absolutely right the Government

:23:28.:23:33.

reflects the deep level of public concern. Meanwhile David Cameron's

:23:33.:23:36.

been undergoing critical gaze for his change of temperament. You know

:23:36.:23:41.

what it is like, you threat kids persuade tow get one of those

:23:41.:23:46.

fluffy new Conservatives and before you know it they are snapping at

:23:46.:23:51.

your ankles and.. We teed to be tough as the foundation of

:23:51.:23:53.

effective criminal justice is personal responsibility. Committing

:23:53.:23:58.

a crime is always a choice. That's why the primary, proper response to

:23:58.:24:02.

crime is not explanations or excuses, it is punishment,

:24:02.:24:06.

proportionate, meaningful punishment. When it comes to

:24:06.:24:09.

dealing with those difficult foreign breeds we had a bit of a

:24:09.:24:12.

tuls. On the thorny issue of prisoner's votes the Attorney

:24:12.:24:15.

General, the constitutional watchdog, warned that we might end

:24:15.:24:20.

up in the doghouse if we ignore European legislation. But Mr

:24:20.:24:26.

Cameron said he didn't accept Strasbourg's ruling. Peter? Good

:24:26.:24:29.

dog. What a good dog. No-one should be in any doubt prisoners are not

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getting the vote under this Government. But it wouldn't be a

:24:34.:24:38.

week at Westminster without on amny vor shambles and the badger cull

:24:38.:24:42.

turned into the big controversial story that wasn't. Today I have

:24:42.:24:46.

received a letter from the President of the N fufplt on behalf

:24:46.:24:51.

of the companies co-ordinating the culls. Explaining why they do not

:24:51.:24:56.

feel they can go ahead this year and requesting that they be

:24:56.:25:00.

postponed until next summer. In these circumstances, it is the

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right thing to do. All this was good news for the underdog, Ed

:25:05.:25:09.

Miliband, who was hounding his prey at Prime Minister's Questions.

:25:09.:25:15.

Fetch. And that is what he said before he became Prime Minister. We

:25:15.:25:21.

must provide the modern Conservative alternative. Clear,

:25:21.:25:26.

competent... LAUGHTER Inspiring. LAUGHTER Mr Speaker, where did it

:25:26.:25:31.

all go wrong? CHEERING I tell you, I are tell you what has happened

:25:31.:25:35.

under the Government under the last week. Inflation down, unemployment

:25:35.:25:44.

down. Crime down, waiting lists down. Borrowing down.

:25:44.:25:47.

The omnishambles a building attack line for Mr Miliband but it doesn't

:25:47.:25:54.

tell us anything about how he would good he would be at running any.

:25:54.:25:58.

After this action the Andrew Mitchell affair seemed like a very

:25:58.:26:05.

long time ago 2009 Mr Mitchell's dog won Westminster dog of the year.

:26:05.:26:10.

She was imPresident Sarkozyably behaved, unlike her master. Last

:26:10.:26:14.

week we had a Government Chief Whip who was educated at Rugby public

:26:14.:26:19.

school and this week we have one who was educated at Eton. Can the

:26:19.:26:29.
:26:29.:26:31.

Prime Minister give us an update on his campaign to spread privilege?

:26:31.:26:34.

At Westminster it is the winning and not the taking part that counts.

:26:34.:26:39.

So I'm nabbing a bit of Peter's reflected glory and David Cameron's

:26:39.:26:44.

also trying to borrow some glory from those upward growth figures

:26:44.:26:47.

today. Just maybe it is his chance to gets back ahead of the political

:26:47.:26:55.

pack. Michael, the growth figures for the

:26:55.:26:59.

third quarter were a bit better than expected. Technically we've

:26:59.:27:03.

come out of the double dip. Should we get excited about this

:27:03.:27:07.

snoofrpblts I think we should probably. Not that the economic --

:27:07.:27:12.

should we get excited about this? think we should probably. If

:27:13.:27:16.

narrative of the opposition until now has been powerful. Here we are

:27:16.:27:20.

in recession, back in recession, three quarters of recession all of

:27:20.:27:23.

that a over now. The 1% is a pricked number, because it takes

:27:23.:27:27.

the economy back to where it was a year ago. That doesn't sound

:27:27.:27:32.

spectacular but it does undo the three quarters of recession. So it

:27:32.:27:37.

is a good number. The employment figures last year, last week, were

:27:37.:27:40.

good. I think the great thing about the Government is the austerity

:27:40.:27:43.

programme and the fact that it has stuck at the austerity programme. I

:27:43.:27:46.

think the austerity programme is right. I think eventually the

:27:46.:27:49.

austerity programme will be rewarded by a sort of success. When

:27:49.:27:53.

I say sort of success, it dependents on what happens in the

:27:53.:27:58.

euro and I think the euro is more likely to collapse than not. Alan,

:27:58.:28:02.

the 1% growth in the third quarter is clearly a blip in the sense that

:28:02.:28:08.

that's an annual rate of 4% and the economy isn't going to grow at 4%

:28:08.:28:12.

this year, next year or the year after. If it is back to growth, it

:28:12.:28:17.

is anaemic. This is the political question, is the Labour lead big or

:28:17.:28:22.

strong enough to survive any kind of economic recovery? Well, it

:28:22.:28:25.

would be a foolish Labour politician that felt that that was

:28:25.:28:29.

the case, because it is going to be about the commitment I disagree

:28:29.:28:35.

with Michael, because our criticism in 2010 and 2011 didn't imagine we

:28:35.:28:40.

were going to go back into another recession. Alistair Darling, we

:28:40.:28:45.

were always going to say we were bump along the bottom. The other

:28:45.:28:50.

thing it doesn't feel, up in the North we've had terrible news on

:28:50.:28:55.

jobs today. Now the news in Southampton and Dagenham about Ford.

:28:55.:29:01.

If you took every Treasury official out and every Treasury Minister and

:29:01.:29:05.

put sacks of Maris Piper notes the Treasury, eventually growth would

:29:05.:29:12.

return. There would be gloth the economy. -- growth in the economy.

:29:12.:29:15.

The question is how much damage is done in the meantime to the

:29:15.:29:20.

underlying economy and to people's lives? I want to come back to the

:29:20.:29:25.

question, the Conservatives' problem surely is this. Growth

:29:25.:29:31.

could be so anaemic that only pundits in TV studios notice it.

:29:31.:29:34.

Ordinary folk, particularly the further north you go, as Alan says,

:29:34.:29:39.

don't. So the Torys could have a voteless recovery. That's the

:29:40.:29:44.

political danger. The economic danger is that the economic

:29:44.:29:48.

recovery is so anaemic that public borrowing just goes up and up and

:29:48.:29:53.

in particular the national debt reaches such a size that the

:29:53.:29:56.

markets refuse to lend to the British Government at the present

:29:56.:30:00.

low rates and then you convert a problem which at the moment is

:30:00.:30:03.

perfectly manageable into a cries which is is unsustainable. In other

:30:03.:30:13.
:30:13.:30:27.

words you become a Spain or an The growth figures -%, as I said.

:30:27.:30:32.

But in recent days, unemployment has gone down, retail sales have

:30:32.:30:36.

gone up. People like me have been saying the deficit is rising again.

:30:36.:30:40.

It is, but not as much by the original figures that we used

:30:40.:30:45.

during the party conference season. Again, I just wonder, if I was a

:30:45.:30:49.

Labour strategist, I look at my leader, I am ten points ahead of

:30:49.:30:53.

the Tories. There was a good Labour conference, but is it strong enough

:30:54.:30:58.

to survive a recovery? We're along way from an election. You are not

:30:58.:31:03.

going to answer that, are you? are right. It has been a good week

:31:03.:31:06.

for the Government. Two weeks if you go back to the statistics. Is

:31:06.:31:12.

there a thought in the public's mind about competence of the

:31:12.:31:16.

Government that overrides that good news and means that it just falls

:31:16.:31:22.

flat and that would be a worry. They have to find some competence.

:31:22.:31:27.

I'll have one more go. Is Mr Balls an asset or liability on policy?

:31:27.:31:34.

He's an asset. He's an asset on the basis that, where Cameron and

:31:34.:31:38.

Osborne have gone wrong, where I disagree with Michael profoundly,

:31:38.:31:42.

is what they said would happen. This austerity package was supposed

:31:42.:31:46.

to lead us away from the danger zone. They would be unwise to go

:31:46.:31:51.

back to that. We are still in the danger zone. What they said would

:31:51.:31:55.

happen, hasn't happened. Votes for prisoners came back again. We are

:31:55.:31:59.

sure it must have been the Attorney General's department, leaking to

:31:59.:32:03.

the Guardian, that we would have to do something on votes for prisoners.

:32:03.:32:07.

The Prime Minister, making policy on the hoof again - saying to the

:32:07.:32:11.

House of Commons, at Question Time, if you want another vote against

:32:12.:32:17.

prisoners, I'm your man. You can have one - vote as much as you like.

:32:17.:32:24.

I'll make a prediction, which is some prisoners will.... That is the

:32:24.:32:28.

Attorney General's idea. Some prisoners will get the vote. Will

:32:28.:32:34.

that be the right thing to do? not all that keen on them getting

:32:34.:32:42.

the vote. I agree with the Attorney General that you have obey laws.

:32:42.:32:46.

There is a way through, that you give some the vote and not others.

:32:46.:32:51.

If there's a way through like that, for heavens sake, take it. I know

:32:51.:32:56.

quite a bit about this. The Strasbourg court was against the

:32:56.:33:00.

ban. The appetite in the Commons for giving prisoners any kind of

:33:00.:33:07.

vote, even with conditions and criteria, you know this? I was

:33:07.:33:17.
:33:17.:33:17.

against that and voted gepbss it. What we were hoping to -- against

:33:17.:33:27.
:33:27.:33:28.

What we were hoping to do, is that Cameron did that the way he did.

:33:28.:33:33.

Not a hostage to fortune. But also, so publicly disagreeing with his

:33:33.:33:36.

Attorney General, who must have given him advice before he stood up

:33:36.:33:42.

and said what he said. So, I think I don't want prisoners to get the

:33:42.:33:46.

vote. I somewhere along the line there'll be a compromise.

:33:46.:33:53.

Mitchell did not live to fight another day, contrary to your

:33:53.:33:59.

prediction. I said he would go. It's childish, but very important.

:33:59.:34:04.

Did you get legal advice? Have you got written legal advice? You can

:34:04.:34:09.

play back from two weeks ago. Yes, I said. The badgers live to fight

:34:09.:34:17.

another day, don't they? Will this cull ever happen? I think it is

:34:17.:34:24.

50/50. Things are looking good for the badgers. They have survived

:34:24.:34:30.

another season. Some have described it as a sett-back!

:34:30.:34:37.

Oh, no, that brought this item to an end. You have seen one glance at

:34:37.:34:42.

our sofa, tells you anything is welcome here. We are not fussy.

:34:42.:34:47.

Michael and Alan may not share the same politics, but they are happy

:34:47.:34:54.

to share a FTSE under the coffee table. I have watched them. -- a

:34:54.:34:58.

footsy under the coffee table. I have watched them. Discrimination

:34:58.:35:02.

in football is still an issue. This week, we are putting prejudice in

:35:02.:35:12.
:35:12.:35:20.

When Alex Ferguson threatened to deal with Rio Ferdinand for not

:35:21.:35:26.

wearing anty racism T-shirt, it seems all men are not born equal.

:35:26.:35:31.

Rio is protesting at a lack of action on press dis. Luckily Sir

:35:31.:35:37.

Alex has not held it against him. always think that the union is

:35:37.:35:43.

stronger than an individual. It's important that he bears his

:35:43.:35:51.

grievances to the right people. Someone else who is not a racist

:35:51.:36:01.
:36:01.:36:04.

and can prove it in a court of law is comedian Frankie Boyle.

:36:04.:36:08.

A glamour model and her fiancee were dismissed as not the type of

:36:08.:36:15.

people who should be getting married at a posh hotel. Never mind,

:36:15.:36:19.

Pauline. Try the vicar of Babestation!

:36:19.:36:24.

The Supreme Court - modern day suffragettes challenged Birmingham

:36:24.:36:34.
:36:34.:36:38.

council over pay inequality and a great granddaughter of pan hurst

:36:38.:36:48.
:36:48.:36:51.

came to Westminster. Is the only Sofa? And we are joined by Shappi

:36:51.:36:56.

Khorsandi. Welcome back to the programme. Thank you. Lovely to sit

:36:56.:37:03.

down. Glad you can take the weight of your feet. There cannot be many

:37:03.:37:08.

Iranian female comedians on the British circuit. There are loads.

:37:08.:37:16.

What causes you the biggest problem in this job - is it your gender or

:37:16.:37:20.

ethnicity? Neither. I don't wake newspaper the morning and go, oh,

:37:20.:37:28.

my gosh, I'm a female, stand-up, Iranian comic again! You get asked

:37:28.:37:33.

about it by journalists again and again. We're just like a herd!. The

:37:33.:37:41.

same questions, again and again! have to say it is the skinny, male,

:37:41.:37:47.

white ginger comedian is never hauled up to talk about the press

:37:47.:37:52.

dishe suffers. People will look at what you -- prejudice he suffers.

:37:52.:37:57.

People will look at you on the stage.... Is it not a big deal

:37:57.:38:02.

then? It is not something I analyse. Sometimes people have said,

:38:02.:38:07.

especially on Twitter t trolls - they keep our bridges safe. They go,

:38:07.:38:12.

"Oh, you are only on TV because you are a woman and from Iran." These

:38:12.:38:18.

are the two key things people need in soe business. My mother has just

:38:19.:38:25.

been booked for Live At The Apollo. You cannot analyse it - you cannot

:38:25.:38:29.

say I'm not getting this job because I'm this or that. You have

:38:29.:38:35.

to get on with what you have to do. Being a comedian does that give you

:38:35.:38:39.

more latitude? When you are a comedian, you are in a room with

:38:39.:38:44.

people - you are creating an atmosphere. You are having a chat.

:38:44.:38:48.

They know your intention by being there live. All these comedians who

:38:48.:38:51.

get hauled up for being racist, it is rarely by the people who are in

:38:51.:38:58.

the room with them. You know yourself, if you are at a dinner

:38:58.:39:02.

party and people get your intention is not malicious. Frankie Boyle -

:39:02.:39:09.

well he won the case against the Mirabalais. What a waste that was -

:39:09.:39:14.

- against the Mirror. What a waste of time that was. I

:39:14.:39:24.

could have given it to his favourite charity or donal --

:39:24.:39:30.

Donald Trump's favourite charity! In general, in Britain, where are

:39:30.:39:38.

we now? We all think we have made great strides on things like racial

:39:38.:39:45.

discrimination and predgedils -- prejudice. Do we still have great

:39:45.:39:49.

strides? If we look at other countries that are not as toll rent

:39:49.:39:58.

as us and the fact it is up for debate is.... Are you not joking?

:39:58.:40:05.

That we are not tolerant. I think it is good. I thought she

:40:05.:40:12.

was a comedian. I thought she was here to tell jokes. Don't you think

:40:12.:40:20.

most prisoners would vote Tory? There is prejudice on class. You

:40:20.:40:28.

have the toffs talking about chavs. Just because I am a Tory he thought

:40:28.:40:38.

I went to a leading public school. That is prejudice. Harrow Road

:40:38.:40:43.

Primary School. You have the wrong Harrow!

:40:43.:40:49.

We still seem to tolerate a class prejudice.

:40:49.:40:54.

I hate the term "chav". I hate the way that that was turned into some

:40:55.:41:01.

kind of depiction of the working class I did not recognise at all.

:41:01.:41:07.

It was probably comedians! It was not. Take that back. I thought

:41:07.:41:13.

Michael went to Harrow. You are in no control of where you went to

:41:14.:41:21.

school. Equally, being prejudicial because someone is a toff. When I

:41:21.:41:28.

was an MP. A lady wrote to me and said "do you know how I don't like

:41:28.:41:32.

a foreigner like you being an MP. She said, if it is a part of an

:41:33.:41:37.

exchange programme. While you are here, one of our people is in your

:41:37.:41:43.

country, that would be a good idea. People are bonkers though. People

:41:43.:41:49.

say bonkers stuff to you. Not on this programme. You cannot

:41:50.:41:57.

take something someone says. You have to ride it out. I have to say,

:41:57.:42:06.

it is not taken as seriously as it should be. We have Milf and Cougar

:42:06.:42:16.

banded around. They are used to say a mum's age.Um mi mummy sound like

:42:16.:42:26.
:42:26.:42:27.

you are -- Yummy Mummy sound like you are covered in chocolate. I am

:42:27.:42:34.

at the Soho theatre, discussing words like Milf and cougar. What

:42:34.:42:39.

fun! The lawyers have told me to bring the programme to an end!

:42:39.:42:46.

That's your lot for tonight. Not for us - because, it is Pippa

:42:46.:42:54.

Middleton's party, planning dinner at a restaurant tonight. Looking

:42:54.:43:00.

for a walk-on part in made in Chelsea. We are finding out whether

:43:00.:43:04.

you pass the Blue Nun to the right or the left. Me, I just drink it.

:43:04.:43:08.

Hopefully Pippa can put them straight. Good old Pippa. Newsnight

:43:08.:43:15.

may be down, but it is not out. Jeremy Paxman may have miss placed

:43:15.:43:23.

his tie again, but Conrad Black has clearly myself judged -- miss

:43:23.:43:31.

judged his opponent. You have been convicted. Will you stop this

:43:31.:43:36.

prejudice. You are a criminal. not a criminal. You are a convicted

:43:36.:43:45.

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