07/03/2013 This Week

Tonight, join a battered and bruised This Week in casualty, as

stemming the flow of immigrants moves up the political agenda, how

critical will it get when Romanians and Bulgarians are free to work

here next year? One Romanian cheeky girl gives her diagnosis. We only

ever hear negative stories about Romania. But there are over 2,000

Romanian doctors working in the UK. NHS boss Sir David Nicholson find

himself a casualty of the crisis in Mid Staffs or can he cling to his

job? Radio 5 Live presenter Victoria Derbyshire takes the

political pulse. His career is still beating thanks to life-saving

support. Are Justin Bieber's fans suffering a crisis of confidence?

After the Bieber fails to treat them to a little TLC.

Virtuoso superstar Nigel Kennedy soothes our brow. Don't worry

Andrew, I won't keep you waiting. Come on you lions. Pop yourself on

the couch and take your clothes off. Evening all. Welcome to This Week.

The gaping political sinkhole at the heart of the BBC One schedule,

plunging unsuspected viewers into an abyss of empty words, empty

gestures and empty bottles of cheap German wine. You join us mixing our

metaphors and drinks as we seingway from sink hogz to A holes and give

a Justin Bieber shut out to our adoring teenage fans. Hello United

Kingdom of London, are you ready to work? If you like your political

comment devoid of all genuine emotion and more concerned with its

hair and shirts than its credibility, you've come to the

right place. Those tearful Beliebers who missed the last tube

home, you now know how it feels to be in a hyperventilation type of

This Week viewer, forced to stay up way beyond your bedtime, waiting

around for hours for the main act to appear after a struggling

supporting act fails to work the crowd into a frenzy of expectation.

You know what I'm talking about, happens to us every week. Speaking

of small brants who refuse to come out of their dressing room until

the fruit is delivered and the merchandising pay cheque clears,

I'm joined by two of Westminsters tastiest pieces of processed meat.

Think of them as the prime English Bangor and spicy Spanish chorizo of

late night tag. I speak of Alan 'AJ' Johnson and Michael 'choo

choo' Portillo. Michael, your moment of the week? Speaking of

chorizo, the decision of the European Union to limit bankers

bonuses to just 100% of their salary, now I'd be very critical of

bankers' bonuses before, but this policy is madness. It makes good

sense for banks to restrict what they pay on an annual basis and

supplement it in bonuses so in bad years they only pay the base pay.

The result is that base pay will rise. I think this is a policy

directed by the EU at the City of London. I think it is an aggressive

policy intended to hobble and to damage the City of London and I

think it's really quite difficult to argue that EU member sp is in

British interests. So many points I'd like to pick up on there. But

it's only a moment of the week so I have to pass to Alan. There's a lot

of talk after Christmas about the fiscal cliff that America was

heading towards. They went over it. This week Obama signed off this

package that was supposed to be so dreadful that neither the right or

left would allow it to happen. Well it's happened. Obama says he

predicts it will cost 750,000 jobs, big, big element of that falls onto

the Pentagon, they have to make 9% savings by September. We'll see

what it does for the world economy. Big because it could bring us all

down. Yeah. Following last week's dismal third place in Eastleigh,

the Prime Minister responded decisively by steadfastly refusing

to pander to Nigel Farage's anti- immigration insurgency and make a

disastrous lurch to the right. It was almost an entire day before

journalists were briefed about leaving the European Court of human

rielgts, abolishing the Human Rights Act oh, yes and tightening

up health and benefit entitlesments for Romanians and Bulgarians who

have the temairt to come and live in the UK? We turned to one of the

hardest-working Romanians in Britain - Cheeky Girl, Monica

As the Cheeky Girls my twin sister and I are grateful for the

opportunities we've had since moving to the UK from Romania back

in 2002. It's been an incredible journey of highs and lows. We've

been through heaven and hell here. When our record company went bust,

we could have given up and left. But instead we started from scratch

and got back to work. Reading British newspapers you could be

mistaken for thinking that Romania is a country full of lazy, work-shy

people who are just looking for an easy life at someone else's expense.

But millions of Romanians and Bulgarians will come and swamp

public services once the restrictions to leave and work in

the UK are going to be lifted at the end of this year.

One thing is missing from the debate - the voice of Romanians,

I think that immigration is a good thing. Within the European Union I

believe citizens should be able to work and settle wherever they like,

as long as they are working and making a contribution. There is a

Big Debate in the UK about who should get a slice of the pie when

it comes to health care, schools, housing and benefits. If there is a

problem, fix the system, don't blame immigrants who are claiming

when they are legally allowed to claim. Thank you. I'll get this for

mum. She likes them. Personally, I believe that benefits make life too

easy for some an the Government is not doing enough to encourage

people to work. So, Prime Minister, freeze the benefits if that's what

you want to do, but don't close the door on freedom of movement for the

EU citizens. It's about time we had some

positive headlines about our country and the contribution

Romanians make to British life. The Government should address the

entitlement culture, not try to From the Bucharest delicatessen to

our own little Delly here in the heart of Westminster. We're joined

by two Cheeky Girls. Two for the price of one. Monica and Gabriella,

welcome to you both. Thank you. Very nice to be here again. Good to

have you back here. Do you think Britain will be in an attractive

place to come for lots of Romanians and Bulgarians? What I've seen is

everybody in Britain they are playing a guessing game of how many

Romanians and Bulgarians will come over to the UK, at the beginning of

next year. We don't know. No. you? Have a guess? Well, I think

that nobody knows. I think that people, I think Romanian people who

wanted to come over to the UK they already did come, most of them

since 2007, since Romania joined the EU. But it will be easier to

come now. Do you think more will come? It depends, maybe some

youngsters who want a better career abroad and maybe want to have more

opportunities. But the people who have a life and family over there,

I find it quite hard for people for families to go apart just for a

better job. Lots of Polish people came. Yes, yes. Well lots of Polish

people came. And Bulgarians and Romanians, who are doing all the

jobs which honestly British people don't fancy to do. And often doing

them very well? Yes, they are very hard workers. You say in the film

that benefits are too easy to claim in this country, welfare benefits

are too easy. I would take it that the benefits you can get here on

the Health Service, schools, welfare payments, housing, they're

much more than you could get in Romania or Bulgaria? Yes, it's true.

That is very true. I think the mistake or I don't know how it's

better to put, it's here it's because the benefits are really

high. You get more like a normal income being on benefits. So that

discourages people to work because you think, oh, why would I just get

a job, when I could just stay on benefits and I get more money or

the same as if I would have a job. So I think that's... It's the

British Welfare State's fault. And it's actually his fault because you

should have reformed, what they're saying is, since it was under your

Government that several million immigrants came into the country,

in doing that you should have reformed the Welfare State to

tighten up on the benefits. First of all, you don't get the same for

being on benefits as you would in work. Jobseeker's allowance is �71

a week. The average allowance is �471 a week. You get other benefits

as well You don't have to pay rent. When the first tranche came in 2004,

they couldn't go anywhere else except Ireland and Sweden. There

were only three countries, all of them having high levels of

employment that allowed. There were no other countries to go to. With

Romania, they're more likely to go to Italy in particular or Spain an

they have the choice of all 26 other European Union countries.

That's one difference. Secondly, in terms of workers work ago broad,

only two countries Poland and Italy have more workers working abroad

than this country. It works both ways. British workers go and work

elsewhere. Michael, should we be concerned of a huge influx of

Romanians and Bulgarians? overly. I think actually that the

principal points in the film were absolutely right that is to say

immigration is necessary for us. Most immigrants work hard. I think

there is a problem that people can come here and pick up benefits too

quickly. For example we make almost no test whatsoever, no test

whatsoever about people qualifying for national Health Service

treatment. If you turn up at casualty, even if you have a pre-

existing condition which you brought from a foreign country, you

will be treated. So I think actually, you are right in your

fundamental point which is that the main problem is with our conditions.

Indeed, this seems to be the way that the Government is going. The

Government is recognising that it cannot impose discriminatory

conditions against immigrants, but perhaps some of the terms of

qualification for various benefits in this country are too lenient.

There should be thresholds. We used to have at the time of the

invention of the Welfare State a contributory principle, which has

been more or less eradicated. line is that immigrants are good

and we should welcome them. But we should be tougher on welfare, that

people, we shouldn't have a situation where... No-one ever

immigrates to America to get welfare. They go to work. Yes, it's

true. I think that in which ever country you wish to live, sometimes

you live in that country and you claim, so you can't just take and

give nothing back. That's the whole idea. If you live in a country and

you claim health care and schools and Housing Benefit or so-and-so on,

you have to work or maybe work in later life to have the benefits.

That's the case, leave aside the NHS, it's more complex than Michael

suggested, but you could not get any benefits here unless you joined

the workers registration scheme, which meant you had to be working

for 12 continuous months before you could draw benefits. Those

accession eight countries, the vast majority of people who came over

Anyone coming from Romania and Bulgaria would have to work for at

least 12 months before they can draw any benefit. There are so many

myths around this and you exploded some of them in your film.

Nevertheless, the worry is, we got it wrong about the numbers coming

from Poland and that is why no one is keen to put a figure on the

numbers coming from Bulgaria and Romania. You've got that

horrendously wrong. But that aside, this government will not even have

a stab at it in case it is out. According to Yvette Cooper, you

seem to have been wrong about quite a few things. She said we were

wrong on two things, getting the points based system in, which I

also said. When the Tories proposed that in 2005, your party opposed it.

It was in about 2005 that we were planning it. You mean 9095. 2005.

The legislation went through in 2005. The other thing she said was

that every other country said, we will allow workers in in seven

years, and we, Sweden and the Republic of Ireland said we would

take them straight away. It sounded like a good idea at this time.

Spain, when they joined the EU, they lifted their restriction

straightaway. So did we. But we made the Bulgarians and Romanians

go through a long transition period. The same as every other European

Union country. Yvette was saying we should have done that in 2004.

There were 6400 vacancies and a 75% employment rate at that time.

are saying the immigrants have come in to do jobs that unemployed Brits

will not do. Yes. Some of them. There is another problem here.

British people might say that foreign workers might take their

jobs, but the problem should be discussed with the contractors who

are hiring people to do the jobs. They look for cheaper labour.

did you really employment agencies. There are some who would only take

on the eastern European workers. must hear from Mr Portillo. He has

been shy tonight. Firstly, I was going to say we do need young

immigrants, because our birthrate is so low that we don't have a

proper replacement ratio. We need more young people if we are going

to support our ageing population. Secondly, one of the things Labour

achieved which they are very modest about is but they introduced so

many immigrants into the country that they brought down wage levels,

which enabled our economy to go on growing for longer. For the first

time in modern history, our recovery was not choked off by wage

inflation. But Labour don't talk about that. There has not been a

single prosecution for not paying the minimum wage for many years.

How many were there under Labour? fair few. I would like to look at

the figures. We are glad to have two emigrants with us tonight.

Thank you. I know what you are thinking - how

did we manage to get through an interview with the Cheeky Girls

without mentioning Lib Dem politicians and touched my Bob? Why

would I mention that? -- touched my bum? That is why we are paid the

big bucks - to set the journalistic standards others can only aspire to.

Speaking of which, we are about to exceed ours because fiddling in the

wings, the one and only Nigel Kennedy is here to talk about

something we know nothing about - what it is like to be adored by

fans the world over. If you would like to single out everything that

is wrong with tonight's show and blow it all out of proportion, as

you are inclined to do, you know the drill.

Now, Justin Bieber has more followers than politicians have in

their wildest dreams. But we have seen this week that even pop

megastars risk losing some of their course if they don't live up to

expectations, something we know all too well here on This Week. So with

further damage to our reputation almost impossible, we have asked

our very own Belieber, Radio 5 Live's Victoria Derbyshire, to go

in search of the Canadian pop munchkin for her round-up of the

political week. # You know you love me.

# I know you care. # Just shout whenever, and I'll be

there. # You want my love, you what my

heart, and we will never be a part. No, we will never be a part. It may

surprise you to know that I am in fact a true Belieber and I got very

cross this week with all the stick he has been getting. What is a few

hours' wait when you are about to see one of the greatest pop stars

on earth? I have got my tickets for tonight's gig in their right now.

Justin Bieber fans were not the and the disappointed once this week.

am totally disgusted. We are all fans and now we hate him.

Tories were deserted by their fan base in Eastleigh. That has put the

Tory leadership issue back on the agenda again. Cameron has insisted

he will not lurch to the right, but others in the Cabinet are trying to

court popularity. Defence Secretary Philip Hammond was quick to state

that he thought they should be further cuts to the welfare budget

to avoid him having to make more savings in defence spending. There

may be some modest further reductions we can make through

efficiencies. But we will not be able to make significant further

cuts without eroding military capability. I need to see Bieber!

Maybe from up there. The Prime Minister will be watching

his back, and some wonder if Cameron should stop worrying about

the popular blonde in City Hall and keep a close eye on his Cabinet

colleagues, particularly Theresa May, whose comments this week about

Britain distancing itself from the European Court of Human Rights were

seen by some as jockeying for position, should the Conservative

leadership become available. Ed Miliband certainly made a point of

mentioning those suspected ambitions at PMQs. The Home

Secretary shakes her fed. I look forward to facing her when they are

in opposition. Cameron is not finding many fans of his economic

strategy. He has faced calls from restless backbenchers for cuts in

taxes and spending, but he is not going to be swayed. He has insisted

he is not changing course, he is sticking to the road ahead. There

is no alternative. The decision we made now will set the course of our

economic future for years to come. While some would falter and plunge

us back into the abyss, we will stick to the course. So that is a

note to plan B. Vince, the Business Secretary, has an helpfully called

for more impish up to spending, to be funded through increased

borrowing. This is not music to the ears of the Prime Minister or the

deputy prime minister. Docking of speeding cars, and Vicky

Pryce, ex-wife of Chris Huhne, has been found guilty of perverting the

course of justice and now faces and her own jail sentence. Justin

Bieber should note that the fall from grace can be rapid. At one

point, I nearly left before he even came on the stage. A HBOS Sir David

Nicholson went before MPs to be questioned over his -- NHS boss at

Sir David Nicholson went before MPs to be questioned over his handling

of Mid-Staffordshire hospital trust. Asked whether he should stay in his

job, he was not exactly decisive. Well, obviously I set out before

how important it seems to me to... I have a duty to manage the

organisation over these changes. That is possibly why Downing Street

continues to support him - he is too important and responsible for

too many of the complicated ongoing reforms.

The government has already had to make a U-turn this week on the

amount of public sector -- private sector health provision over

warnings that that would open up the NHS to too much competition.

Ministers cannot afford to lose their crucial man on the inside at

this time. We are one big family and we support each other.

gorgeous boy Bieber has had a bad few days, but arguably, Chancellor

George Osborne has had worse. He was a lone figure in Brussels,

waving the flag for Bangors' rights, tried to block a European Cup on

bankers' bonuses. We do have concerns that in some aspects, the

proposals put forward in this directive on bankers' pay will

undermine that. Another was, it will push salaries up and make it

more difficult to claw back bankers' bonuses when things go

wrong. It was slightly embarrassing for him, because he was outvoted by

his European colleagues 26-1. It is a politically precarious tightrope

to walk, listening to the public blowing hate figures in British

finance. It crossed Ed Miliband's mind, too. While the Prime Minister

and Chancellor of the only people who think it is a priority to fight

for bigger bonuses for bankers? for the Conservatives, keeping the

City onside is part of their raison d'etre. I think he could be below

me now. I can hear them starting! Got to go.

# Baby, Baby, Baby... #. 5 Live's Victoria Derbyshire on the

roof of the O2 building. Michael, tell Alan why David Nicholson

should resign as the boss of the NHS? For two reasons. One is that

he was in charge of the regional health authority that covered Mid-

Staffordshire during the appalling number of excessive deaths that

occurred in that hospital. Secondly, because it appears now that he is

in charge of the National Health Service, he appears to know nothing

about what is going on inside the organisation. For instance, the

fact that people are being dismissed with half a million-pound

payouts and being required to sign confidentiality agreements that

prevent them from saying what has been done against the interests of

patients. Those two things together are enough to demand his

resignation. Firstly, Michael, don't you think a public inquiry

where he appeared for 11 hours before it QC, the second inquiry,

by the way, not only do they not place the blame at Mickelson's will

-- not only has the inquiry not said that Nicholson should be the

scapegoat, but it says no one should be scapegoated. You make the

point for me. It was a disgraceful public report to conclude that no

one was responsible. Clearly, people were responsible. No, he

said Nicholson was not responsible. The report said no one was

responsible. Apparently, the system was to blame. To say the fellow who

was running the region at the time and has been running the National

Health Service since would be a scapegoat is preposterous. He is

not a scapegoat, he is the man who is in charge. Who was sacked over

the Bristol Heart Hospital when all those babies died and the your

regime? Harold Shipman killed 275 of his patients. He was part of the

NHS. The NHS is not a company, it is a health system. The

responsibilities are of the clinicians to the patient and for

the local hospital to the trust. So to say because he was the chief

executive of the NHS, irrespective of anything else... You go on

making my point. The National Health Service has a history of no

one of being to blame for anything. You call it a system, I call it a

nationalised industry which has been taken over by the people who

run it so that it is run only in jeep interests of the producers.

The that is ridiculous. You have just sighted at three cases in a

row. I'm just pointing out that under your government, there were

problems. You are making a party political point, I am talking about

responsibility. There are no standardised mortality ratios, this

measure by which they know there is a problem, before 2000. There was

no independent regulator. So after 2000, there was? There was no

complaints system outside the local hospital. All of that was put in

place by people like David Nicholson. The few were running the

health service, wouldn't you want to know every morning about every

hospital that had an excess mortality rate? Oh, sorry, you were

running the National Health Service. Such subtlety!

You had your moment of the week on bankers' bonuses, Michael, saying

what you thought of the European Parliament. I suggest that the

politics are difficult for Mr Osborne. It is not a great

political move if you are Chancellor to be seen to go in to

bat for people who may be paid �1 million on a salary being told but

on top of that, you can only have another million as a bonus or if

the shareholders agree, up to 2 million extra. That is a difficult

political wicket to be on. It is very difficult. But the point of

being in office is not just to do everything that is popular, it is

also to do what is right. The bankers have behaved disgracefully.

The banks have been full of greedy individuals who have wrecked the

system and brought us to the point of perdition. But rationally, it is

necessary to have a system whereby in good years, people are rewarded

for performance, but let it be properly measured so that, not

least in bad years, the banks can get away with paying relatively

small amounts of money so that they are not constantly forced to pay

out money in good and bad years. $:/STARTFEED. We've reached that

point in a Conservative Government and we still have a mad system in

the Conservative Party where you can mount challenges against the

leader where there is the suspicion that David Cameron may be

challenged and may be replaced either before an election or after

an election. I said before I don't think the Conservatives had much

chance of winning an election. Once that happens, everybody was in the

top three or four is a potential candidate. Even in the rather mad

case I think of Adam Afreia even people not in the top 100, thought

to be contenders. You're saying in a sense they're playing for

position post 2015 assuming Mr Cameron isn't going to win 2015?

am saying that, but there is the possibility of a leadership

challenge that could unseat David Cameron. Do you think? There's a

possibility. Unlikely though. Unlikely there would be a challenge

and most unlikely it would succeed. If you want me to assess Mrs May's

chances, I don't think she has a lot of friends in the House of

Commons. Under the Conservative Party system, though she might be

pop lore amongst the membership of the party she would struggle to be

one of the two candidates selected by MPs to be put to the

Conservative membership outside the House of Commons. Looking at a

post-2015 situation, we had this essay in the New Statesman by Vince

Cable this week, now it's expressed gently, it's not firm on what

should be done, but as you read the tone of it, it's a nicely written

essay actually, an authorityive. It's leaning more to Labour's

approach of we're prepared to run a bigger deficit if we spend the

money on infrastructure and public investment and so on. Clegg said

something recently to say they were wrong to cut so much in spending.

It's significant, because I think Vince Cable carries a lot of

credibility and I think it's significant because it eroads the

argument that Cameron always uses, which is a good sound bite. You

know the answer to too much borrowing can't be to borrow more.

Vince Cable is saying there's a sound economic argument to say

that's the case. In terms of Cameron's position, he's the best

they've got to pull the Tory party into the 21st century and make them

electable. None of the candidates that I can see, who are now being

mooted, particularly not Theresa May, are going to be able to hold a

torch to him in that respect, in terms of his broad appeal to the

public. He's more popular than the party. Much more. Can I make a

point about the borrowing? Yes. Britain's annual deficit at the

moment I think is 8.8% of the size of our economy. What is Greece's?

6.6. Italy runs a primary surplus. What is Spain? 8%. France just over

3%. Germany non-existent. Is there any country in the European Union

running a bigger deficit than ours? I don't think there s. I think

we're top at the moment. Even after five years of Mr Boz orn, we will

still have the -- Mr Osborne, we will still have the biggest deficit

in the G7. You have to be very confident to say let's borrow more.

Carry on with this successful policy. Now, Manchester United

customers, on Tuesday night after their company was kicked out of

Champions League, they had plenty of time to console themselves on

the trip home, most of them well they live in London. Others were

beyond any silver linings this week, whether the fans of anti-

impeerlalist Hugo Chavez or Justin Bieber. Why do some people become

so fanatical about sport, music, even politicians? Nobody's ever

felt that way about us, so we've decided to put fans in this week's

Hugo Chavez' fans paid their respects this week to the poster

boy of the Latin American death, following the death of the

charismatic Venezuelan President, proving politicians still have the

power to move a crowd. TRANSLATION: Chavez hasn't died.

know you are in the heavens and will be our guide. After last

week's dramatic Eastleigh by- election, it seems a growing number

of UKIP fans are the ones making a big political noise in Westminster.

We really have connected with voters in this constituency and

that's because we're talking about issues that the other parties would

prefer to brush under the carpet. At the O2 areenate massed ranks of

the Bieber army were left shell shocked after the teeny boper kept

them waiting for two hours. Though some die hardz always manage to

find the sunny side. I like the fact that we had to wait so it

lasted longer, so the day just went on. It built up and made it more

exciting. Everyone was having a good time. It didn't make a

difference nay way. When it comes to being a true fan tatic,

Beliebers have nothing on footy fans with one red faced Man United

supporter even calling 999 after Nani's red card. Take it from me,

give the fans what they want and they'll stay true forever.

We're joined by Nigel Kennedy. Welcome back to the programme.

Hello. Good to see you. Really good to see you. If you have a lot of

fans, do you have to manage them? Is it hard to manage them?

really because they've come to see you play, so they're friends, you

know, they're friends from the start. They're on your side. Yes.

But can you do something unwittingly that upsets them?

sure I do, but I have enough sycophantic people around that no-

one tells me. I like. That I could do with that. I've just got these

two. They're very nice to you. They're quite nice. They are.

have to feed them meat. They are amiable characters. Would you ever

turn up two hours late for a gig? Only in Switzerland, just to make

an effect. Is that because you're counting money? I'm counting their

clock. Your Swiss train was late. Exactly. Have we overdone the

Bieber business? Two hours is quite a long time when the audience is

quite young. In the 60s you kind of expected rock stars to urn up late.

It's part of it but they didn't have the insulting dem graphics in

those days. It's a horrible process for the audience and the music to

think you have to have music for 12-year-olds, music for 14-year-

olds. Kids being dragged along by their parents, the idea of the

Beatles or particularly the Rolling Stones was not to have their

parents drag them along. It's something to do without the parents

for a change. What is Bieber? Is it a -- something from Deutschland,

what is that? I don't know why you're asking me? I don't know I

thought you might be rocking off to it. I'm just reading the brief here.

You're a big fan yourself, though, you're a fan. Not of Justin Bieber

clearly, but of stpifl -- Aston Villa. Do you think your passion

for that is too all consuming? getting a bit worn thin at this

point in time. Are you not doing well? We're in the relegation zone.

I've got nothing against people from other parts of the world but

having owners from another country thousands of miles away doesn't

leave a great sense of loyalty to the fan base. Who owns Aston Villa?

We have an American owner. You're still wearing the shirt? Yes but

I'm hiding it. You're covering it up. It's not modesty which covers

it, it's humiliation. Being a fan gives you a collective identity,

doesn't it? It does and it's fantastic to be involved in

something more than just yourself. As a performer it's great to forget

about me, me, me and be part of 40,000 people who've all got a

common desire. Are football fans with their obsession and enthusiasm

are they any different from pop fans? In a way, because they're not

infach waited. You know there's far more people shouting insults at the

players in a football match luckily, than at for instance my gigs.

team could win and lose. But if you're a rock star you win all the

time. If you played as bad as some of the music stars do, I mean the

football stars do, if I played as badly as them I wouldn't have a job

the next week. Michael, how do you handle your fans? Gently. After a

showing to a public audience of a railway journey, one can be knocked

down bit walking frames in the stampede afterwards. It is tricky.

What about you? Michael and I, the cheeky boys, we always treat our

fan with great respect. Yes. We've never been two hours late. He or

she is a great person. Very few politicians have a kind of fan base

outside the close coterie of the party faithful, the kind of people

who go to party conference. You see where Hugo Chavez, where he clearly,

he was a mar mielt -- Marmite character. Lots of people hated him

but big support too. You see with politicians, having that kind of

support, on the right and the left, kind of unthinking, -- unthinking

support, you get a bit worried. It's nice to see someone getting

rid of privatisation, that's fantastic that the people own

everything. He also got rid of his critics by putting them in jail.

Maybe it's a good place to be, it's free lodging isn't it. It could be

nice if the Scottish could have their own oil, that's what the

referendum is all about. There's a referendum in Scotland.

wondering about the Union Jack on the Last Night of the Proms, will

they take the blue bit out? were the Justin Bieber of the Tory

party at one stage. Which of us is that? You. I don't think he's been

in the Tory party. You had an army of devoted fans. I don't remember

being that young or that late. There was an army. You remember

that. Politicians do sometimes, ones with charisma, like yourself,

engender the trust and belief of people. Nicely put. We'd better

quit while we're ahead. Don't let us down boys. What do you regard

yourself as a fan of? Music. Rock? Queens Park Rangers by the way.

Good on you. It's a proper team. Opera I suppose. You are. You are

an opera fan tatic. I'm fon a fanatic. I'm a fan. If you sit for

eight hours at the ring side you are a fan attic. So he just dines

out on his love of Wagner. Any way, I'm a fan of Nigel Kennedy. That's

why I chose the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto for desert island disc.

What are you doing these days? which is fund apltdal and --

fundamental and another one from the 1930s, a good swing. That's all

for tonight. Though not for us. It's gender awareness night at an

bells. Isn't it always. We leave you tonight with the latest twist

in the tragic soap opera known as the Liberal Democrat party, proving

that they really are a party of beards and scandals.