Browse content similar to 06/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Doctor Who, join This Week for some political time travel. Ed Miliband | :00:22. | :00:28. | |
tries to regenerate his party's policy on welfare. Union Lord, Bob | :00:28. | :00:38. | |
:00:38. | :00:39. | ||
Crow takes a sonic screwdriver to the Labour leader's plans. I think | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
Ed Miliband's proposals should be exterminated. | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
If only time travel were available to politicians, maybe they'd do | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
things differently. The Guardian's Nick Watt raids the Doctor Who | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
dressing up box. Who on earth would fall for yet | :00:52. | :01:01. | |
another tabloid sting? Politicians, that's who. | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
And nobody actually knows the Doctor's real name, yet, thanks to | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
Hollywood star Michael Douglas we seem to know everything else in the | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
known universe. Actress and comedian Katy Brand is | :01:11. | :01:21. | |
:01:21. | :01:21. | ||
the soul of This Week discretion. Don't worry, Andrew, what goes on in | :01:21. | :01:24. | |
the studio stays in the studio. Forget looking for a woman Doctor | :01:24. | :01:31. | |
Who. Isn't it time for a more mature Scotsman to get the role? Reverse | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
the polarity of the neutron flow! Evenin' all. Welcome to the | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
All-Party This Week Group for the Consumption of Blue Nun, once | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
described by David Cameron as "the next big scandal waiting to happen", | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
a slur we live down to almost every Thursday evening. But we find | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
ourselves tonight playing second fiddle in the fiddling stakes to yet | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
another tawdry tale of unprincipled politicians on the take, allegedly, | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
with an MP and three Lords caught on camera this week, their snouts in | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
the lobbying trough, allegedly, and the reputation of Parliament as a | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
self-interested cabal of political prostitutes never more apt, not so | :02:00. | :02:10. | |
:02:10. | :02:10. | ||
allegedly. As always in such matters, Downing Street has sprung | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
into total inaction and announced a statutory register of officially | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
sanctioned influence purchasers, which will be a huge boon to those | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
on the take, because henceforth when politicians are approached by a | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
pretty young thing offering loads of money and a beach front condo in | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
Fiji, they'll be able to check if she really is a lobbyist by | :02:24. | :02:34. | |
consulting the register. And if she's not on it, chances are she's | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
from The Sunday Times, though given the number of times they've fallen | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
for the same sting over the past 20 years, it's one of the great | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
mysteries of modern politics that our politicians haven't worked that | :02:43. | :02:50. | |
out already. The words "total numpties" come to mind. Speaking of | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
those whose opinions could never be bought, because they're entirely | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
worthless, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two men whose off-screen | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
relationship is a matter of intense speculation. I think of them as the | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta Jones of late night political chat. | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
I speak, of course, of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson, and, fresh off | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
the 5.34 from Auchenshuggle, #sadmanonatrain Michael "choo choo" | :03:12. | :03:22. | |
:03:22. | :03:30. | ||
Portillo. Michael, your moment of the week? Gay marriage has been | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
passed by majorities in the House of Commons and the Lords, and the | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
Church of England has accept that that is the will of Parliament and | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
that is the end of the Church of England campaign. It is a good | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
moment to reflect on the fact that whilst this has been presented as an | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
issue that has caused problems for David Cameron and splits in the | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
Conservative party, the problems are really with the Church of England | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
and the Catholic church, who do not know how to deal with the issue of | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
homosexuality and gay priest 's, and gay bishops and so. That is where | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
the division is, and the churches are haemorrhaging membership like | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
water disappearing from a bath. They do not have any way of dealing with | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
the problem. The country as a whole has taken it in its stride. I think | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
the country has. In that old-fashioned way, Parliament has | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
voted. The majorities have been achieved in both houses. End of | :04:25. | :04:33. | |
issue. Over. Mr Cameron taint -- came to the Commons on Monday to | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
make a statement about Syria. I think the decision in the previous | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
week was the wrong decision, to lift the arms embargo. I might be wrong | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
about this but I thought I detected some tension between him and the | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
Foreign Secretary. It is unusual for a Prime Minister to be talking about | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
something that the Foreign Secretary carried off the previous week, and | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
to not even mention the Foreign Secretary. Richard have been his | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
triumph. The second thing is the atmosphere on his own backbenchers, | :05:04. | :05:12. | |
which was very sombre. 80 Tory back rectors have signed up to say that | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
if there is the decision to arm Syria, there is a recall of | :05:16. | :05:23. | |
Parliament. -- backbenchers. He is in trouble with his backbenchers. | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
may come back to that. For the moment... | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
Now, I've a little secret for you. Come closer. While we've been | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
off-air, old Choo Choo has had a rather special birthday. I know, | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
it's hard to believe, judging by the stiffness of tonight's quiff, but | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
he's getting on a bit and finally hit the big 60. So imagine his | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
horror that in the very week he qualifies for some discounted perks, | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
Ed Balls has threatened to start taking them away, starting with the | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
winter fuel allowance. But who says Michael's new platinum senior | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
railcard won't be next? And he wasn't the only one left angry by | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
this attack on the well-off elderly. So, as a very special gift to the | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
birthday boy, here's a kindred spirit, RMT union leader Bob Crow, | :06:03. | :06:13. | |
:06:13. | :06:34. | ||
announced two major concerns, to cap for high earners that the fuel | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
benefits will be stopped, and child benefit would be cut as well. I | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
think that is completely wrong. I think people pay into a tax and | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
National Insurance system and at the end of it they take the benefits | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
they have paid in for. If people believe they are that well off that | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
they cannot afford the benefits, they can give it to a charity, or | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
not pick up the benefit. Once you bring in a net at a certain rate | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
that you do not get it, the danger will be that they will bring it | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
lower and lower and it will capture other groups of workers and they | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
will not get the state in a fit either. -- they will not get the | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
state benefit. I believe in universal benefits on the basis that | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
you know what you are going to get. The National Health Service, whether | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
a poor borate prints, you get the same treatment. The National Health | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
Service, along with state benefits, should be the same for everyone. You | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
pay into them when you work and you reap them when you do not. Once you | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
start to alter that, you will see different abilities of people | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
getting different benefits. It will mean a move towards purely means | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
tested funding and benefits for people, and I think that is a -- | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
wrong for working men and women. It is the strong helping the week, that | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
is what the benefit system was based on, and that is something I continue | :07:58. | :08:05. | |
to argue for. My message to the Labour Party leadership is that they | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
should stop what they are doing, cutting. The three parties are doing | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
the same, trying to out cut each other, with disastrous consequences | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
for working men and women. As far as I am concerned, it would be the end | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
of universal benefits if Labour get into power and they go down the same | :08:24. | :08:34. | |
:08:34. | :08:37. | ||
route as the Tories and Liberals over the last five years. | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
Bob Crow, from the massive redevelopment of the King's Cross | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
stationary in north London to our little studio in Westminster which | :08:45. | :08:52. | |
needs redevelopment. Welcome to the programme. Alan Johnson, is Mr | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
Miliband right or wrong to begin it rode in the principle of | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
universality? He is right to live in the world of 2000 and 18. We had a | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
discussion many moons ago about this, and I agree with the principle | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
of universal payments, this social solidarity. But you cannot retract | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
from the fact that if he was going to reintroduce child benefit for the | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
well-off, it would be �2.3 billion. He has to get the balance between | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
living standards, growth and deficit reduction. What Ed Balls and Ed | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
Miliband were doing was to live in that world, not to fantasise about | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
it, but to live in it in a realistic way. What do you say to that? Would | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
it be sensible for Labour to go into the next election campaign pledging | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
to spend over �2 billion to reinstate child benefit for the | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
wealthy? It is where you start. Why don't they look at Amazon and | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
Vodafone and the company is not paying tax, without starting here? I | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
do not think it is a lot of money. That means every train driver in | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
Britain will have their benefits cut. I do not believe they are | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
massively highly paid for what they do. And once you start interfering, | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
the reality will be at the end of the day, tax people more if need be. | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
If they are reaping more money, a fair tax system. They have already | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
lowered the tax rate for the highest from 50% down to 45%. Now you are | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
going to middle as -- burners, working-class people, who will fall | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
into that line. And it will dip and dip and get worse and worse. Even if | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
you got Google and Amazon to pay more tax, would you use it to | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
reinstate child benefit for higher earners? Let them pay more tax. The | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
more you earn, the more you pay. You pay tax and by civilisation. Not | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
saying to people on 37,000, it is going to stop. How much tax should | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
somebody on 40,000 a year paid? Chancellor would have to work out | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
what is coming in and going out. If you raise tax for the higher | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
earners, whether they get it in child benefit or any other form of | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
money, they have two pay higher tax on it. What you will see is people | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
saying, surely National Insurance is an insurance policy. It was set up | :11:21. | :11:31. | |
:11:31. | :11:33. | ||
so that those people who could afford it, as an insurance policy. | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
You say to somebody, because you earn a lot of money, you cannot | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
really claim the insurance back, because you have enough to pay if | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
you lose your suitcase. Surely the more we pay in and the more you | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
earn, the more you pay and redistribute the wealth. What do you | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
say to the point that if the better off do not have a stake in the | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
services provided, they will not care about the standard? That was | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
the apartment for imposing it in the first race. As far as the winter | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
fuel payments is concerned, that has not been eroded at the moment. Child | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
benefit has gone. The point about winter fuel payments and child | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
benefit is that they are not taxed. It is not taxable income. I do not | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
know - when I was shadow chancellor I looked at this dash I know why we | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
do not include it as taxable income, because politicians are scared of | :12:24. | :12:31. | |
increasing taxes, but the point that Bob Crow makes is about income tax. | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
The �200 winter fuel payments is not taxed and neither is child benefit. | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
If you brought it into the tax system, you could have a universal | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
system. You would roughly get your 2.3 billion. You would have a | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
bureaucracy that gave out benefits with one hand and another | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
bureaucracy that took them back with the other in the form of tax. | :12:51. | :12:58. | |
is what you do anyway, in a sense. Is this good news or bad news for | :12:58. | :13:04. | |
the Tories, that the Labour Party seems to be moving on the issue of | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
welfare and universality? Both, quite honestly. It is bad news for | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
the Tories in the sense that Labour looks less idiotic than it did a | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
week ago. It is good news for the Tories in the sense that it is very | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
difficult for Labour to talk about how cruel or oppressive the | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
coalition is being when Labour has now moved a number of its policies | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
in line with the government's policies. I think Alan is absolutely | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
right that the Labour Party has moved to a position of greater | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
realism. I was in this position as Shadow Chancellor. Whatever the | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
government does is credible. Whatever the government does becomes | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
the new reality. The opposition is always left in the position of | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
looking incredible because it has not yet matched what the government | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
has done. This is all silly and away because if Labour got into | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
government everything would be different. Over a period of time | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
they would rearrange the money as they thought right. But the game | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
that the press always play with the opposition is, where would you find | :14:03. | :14:08. | |
this 2.3 billion? You are expected to identify a series of cuts that | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
would exactly make up this sum of money. It is a silly game, but it is | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
a game from which oppositions do very badly and their credibility | :14:16. | :14:24. | |
suffers a lot. Part of will Labour's problem when their own polling shows | :14:24. | :14:29. | |
that they are not trusted on tax and spending. The public thinks they | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
spent too much and that they are synonymous with tax. I don't quite | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
understand how they make themselves more electable by going into the | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
next election calling for more tax and more spend? No doubt they are | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
going to keep the 50% reduction to 45. Alan's point... Higher than it | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
was under Labour. Ed Balls in the speech said he put it at 50%. | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
23409 said that for sure after the next election, he said if he was in | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
power tomorrow he'd put it up to 50, but he's been a little bit more | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
opaque. We'll wait and see. The jury's out on that one, in my view. | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
It becomes the tax, as Alan said, they get wary of it. When people | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
want to cut the tax for the rich people, people don't have a problem | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
with that. People at the bottom of the scale, �37,000 is not a lot of | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
money, it will take out most craftsmen and bishop who'd have to | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
pay more as a result of it. People have seen an attack taking place on | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
them over the last five to six years and that continuing under Labour as | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
well. I think Bob does make a very valuable point that we are moving | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
away from the contributory system. This is a real problem for the | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
signal it sends to society. What it's saying is, there's no point you | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
making any effort because at the end of the day if you have managed to | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
save any money for yourself, we'll rake everything back from your | :15:54. | :16:01. | |
benefits. The idea of having contributory benefits and child | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
benefit which originated as the tax allowance which is why it's not a | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
taxable benefit, the point of that was that if you provided more for | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
yourself, these things would not be clawed back. We are sending a really | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
terrible signal of discouraging people from being thrifty. There is | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
a sense here in Labour bending to the way it's seen public opinion | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
going, the welfare reforms whether you like them or not are popular | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
with voters. People do think that Labour spent too much, they still | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
don't trust Labour on the economy, even less than they trust the | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
Government whose economic record is less than stellar. There is this | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
repositioning which is being public opinion-led. No. The closer we got | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
to 2015, the more the speeches are necessary to stop living in 2010 and | :16:49. | :16:55. | |
start living in 2015. Mr Miliband told us the universal principle was | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
the foundation of a fair society, the foundation, not that it's a good | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
thing or we could change our mind, but at the moment I like it, the | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
foundation now. Michael's right about oppositions. Oppositions do | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
U-turns all the time. Look BAbling to what the Conservatives said about | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
the national minimum wage or to about tuition fees, oppositions say | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
all kinds of things when they are opposing things. Didn't say tuition | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
fees were the foundation of a modern society? But we are not getting rid | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
of all universal payments. We are talking about the top rate and we | :17:27. | :17:34. | |
are talking about 2. 3 billion. That's eye-watering. Child benefit, | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
you are not talking about top rate taxpayers. We have been told over | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
the last 15 years that the state can't afford to give people | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
pensions. Therefore you have got to save, you have got to have | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
occupational pensions, then someone saves all their life out their own | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
money rather than spend it, when they are retired they are told you | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
are going to reap the benefits you are going to have, totally wrong and | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
unfair. With have to move on. Thank you. It may be late, but don't even | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
think of going to bed. This time last week, our Prime Minister call | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
me ravy Davy was still having it large on a podium in Ibiza, without | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
any hope whatsoever from Gideon's marching powder. The very least you | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
can do is stay up late with us tonight. Katie Brand is here to talk | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
about the need for discretion. For those who insist on sharing your | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
inner most thoughts and with almost no quality control at all, you will | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
find brain dumps galore on the Twitter, Fleecebook and goad old | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
interweb. There is an old saying that the Shadow Cabinet never ever | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
uses, two Eds are better than one. BOOM. | :18:48. | :18:56. | |
Has this week proved the doubters wrong? Are messer Ed Miliband and | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
Balls coming to terms with things? Are they finally ready to take the | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
so-called difficult decisions that politicians are forever patting | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
themselves on the back about? We are not so sure. We turn to the | :19:08. | :19:18. | |
:19:18. | :19:18. | ||
guardians for their thoughts and this roundup of the political week. | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
What a gorgeous day. I think I'd better make the most of this rare | :19:24. | :19:33. | |
:19:34. | :19:44. | ||
sunshine and tend to a sadly Well, it seems I'm not the only | :19:44. | :19:54. | |
:19:54. | :20:01. | ||
member of the village who needs to Yes, you would have thought our MPs | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
and peers would have learned by now that when a friendly young person | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
laughs at their jokes and offers them a wad of cash, they are | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
probably a journalist. Not so for three noble Lords and one honourable | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
member who have inflicted immense damage on Parliament and reinforced | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
the view that some members of the governing elite believe there's one | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
rule for them and another for more modest people such as us | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
bee-keepers. We are working flat out to cross the | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
Is and dot the Ts on this legislation dealing with the | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
influence of nonpolitical parties as far as lobbying is concerned and | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
also in terms of support for campaigns at a constituency level | :20:43. | :20:53. | |
and we'll publish the proposals very shortly. | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
You wait ages for a set piece speech and then two come along at once. | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
At least it's given me more time to keep these beauties happy. Elements | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
of the Labour tribe will be less happy as the two Eds move the party | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
away from attacking cuts to accepting most of them. We'll | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
inherit a substantial deficit, we'll have to govern with much less money | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
around, we'll need to show an iron discipline. It was meant to be Ed | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
Miliband's week, but David Cameron ran rings around him after the | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
Labour Leader declined to acknowledge that the party has now | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
quietly shelved its opposition to the child benefit changes. | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
I know I've been the one on holiday in Ibiza, but they've been the ones | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
taking, how can I put it, Mr Speaker, policy altering substances | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
as last week they were in fave of child benefit, now they are against | :21:49. | :21:58. | |
With a hive of Labour activity, Ed Miliband struck back when he | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
announced plans for a three-year ceiling on some elements of welfare | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
spending. The Next Labour Government will have less money to spend. If we | :22:05. | :22:11. | |
are going to turn our economy around, protect our NHS and build a | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
stronger country, we'll have to be laser focussed on every single pound | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
we spend. Social security spending vital as it | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
is cannot be exempt from that discipline. | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
Labour is hoping to restore its economic credibility by showing that | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
it too is prepared to take tough decisions to drive down the deficit. | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
But does its reluctance to spell out in full the consequences of its | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
decision show that Labour has still not quite moved away from a belief | :22:43. | :22:53. | |
:22:53. | :23:03. | ||
that in the end spending is always There was rare yueventy among it's | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
squabbling parties when peers turned out in large numbers to defeat an | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
attempt to kill the bill equalising same sex marriage. Many peers have | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
real problems with this, but they were even more concerned by an | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
attempt by one of their number to try and destroy the Bill just two | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
weeks after MPs gave it their overwhelming approval. | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
Gay men and women have waited for far too long to have the same rights | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
as straight married couples. It's the process by which this Bill has | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
been handled is inappropriate and has left the country divided, | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
bewildered and puzzled. I fear for the future of family life if this | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
Bill is pass and I should certainly vote for the aid mendment. People | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
who've been life long Conservatives and have been the people who | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
actually did the work on the voluntary basis for the party are | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
simply tearing up their membership cards. | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
Little did David Cameron realise that he'd stir up a swarm on this | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
one. He had hoped to reach out to centre ground voters but has ended | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
up alienating vast numbers of traditionalists. Nigel Farage will | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
be chuckling all the way to the ballot box. | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
The Prime Minister doesn't just have a problem with his own party. Nick | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
Clegg showed the coalition is now reduced to hand-to-hand combat when | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
he vetoed Tory plans on childcare. A sting in the tail from the coalition | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
partners. Now, I think it's time to enjoy the | :24:38. | :24:48. | |
:24:48. | :24:53. | ||
Our very own little honey there, Nick Watt. And Miranda Green is here | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
too. Good evening.How serious are these Stigs? I think the problem is | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
the country's hasn't recovered from the trauma of the expenses scandal | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
so you have to deal with some of the smaller opportunities to clean up | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
Parliament, otherwise it looks as though you just don't care. Even | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
though it's the case that there aren't exactly protesters demanding | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
a lobbyist register, you know, "when do we want it now" et cetera... | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
don't think that's going to happen. It's not, but you have to take | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
seriously the idea that the country's lost faith in Parliament | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
as an honest place. No doubt about that. The problem is that I don't | :25:31. | :25:36. | |
understand how a register helps? It's beside the point. First of all, | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
it's perfectly clear that things of which these people are accused would | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
be offensive. They would be against the rules and they would probably | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
certainly lead to expulsion and possibly suspension from Parliament | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
and so on. It's clear that the clues are already in place. Secondly -- | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
rules are already in place. These people were all caught by a sting, | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
in other words there wasn't a real lobbyist at all. Journalists posing. | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
Drait creating the register has nothing to do with what has just | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
happened. As you said at the beginning, if you create the | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
register, you simply allow people to identify more easily those who are | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
genuine lobbyists and journalists. Now a fundamental point - all | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
politics rests upon lobbying. The principal rooms are lobbies, the | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
reason they exist is to allow the public to come into Parliament and | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
visit their Members of Parliament and they meet them in a place called | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
a lobby, which is the origin of the term and the interchange between | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
people who have interests which need to be considered or even protected | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
by Parliament and the people in Parliament is fundamental to the | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
democratic process. Since time in memorial to smooth the interface | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
between the public and the different vested interests and the Members of | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
Parliament, there have been people who undertake lobbying and lobbying | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
can be a very respectable thing. Without lobbying, politics wouldn't | :26:59. | :27:08. | |
function. Thank you for that! Very good. I agree.Political science | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
there. You will get an O-level in it, oh, you don't get those any | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
more. I made a joke that you would think by now politicians would work | :27:19. | :27:25. | |
out of a lobby offering you money is a journal itself. However, it maub | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
just suggests it's a widespread practice because if it wasn't | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
happening a lot, then the politicians would say, that's | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
unusual, they are offering me money, better be careful here. So is it | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
happening a lot? It's never happened to me in my 16 years. You have never | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
been approached by a lobbyist? been approached by a lobbyist | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
saying, if I give you this money will you raise this question. I went | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
to an event, Diabeties UK, a very good event it was as well, and they | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
were lobbying and drawing my attention to some points. Is it | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
happening or is it just journalists? The difficulty for the Bath is what | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
Cameron promised and what he said about this being the next great | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
scandal and a register of lob Iain Duncan Smiths. I can't get excited | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
about a register of lobbyists because no lobbyist was involve and | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
the register of lobbyists Act would have done nothing to change that | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
sting. It's about arm airians not breaking the bloody rules of | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
Parliament. Well, it is, but there is also a transparency issue, that's | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
what the register is supposed to be about. You are right, charities | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
lobby on their pet projects and policy all the time, but everyone | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
knows what they want and they are perfectly open about it. The concern | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
about the intermediaries is some act for different clients and it can be | :28:49. | :28:55. | |
shadowy, so there is a desire to... It will make Leveson look like a | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
picnic if you try to decide what is a lobbyist. Alan's put his finger | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
on, people like Diabeties UK, they are lobbyists. I should think there | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
will be thousands of them. They don't necessarily use lobbying | :29:09. | :29:15. | |
companies, they would lobby themselves. Every big company has a | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
Department of Affairs which is essentially the lobbying. There is | :29:20. | :29:26. | |
the venal and corrupt but in politics, when this happens, Mr | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
Mercer, whatever, he'll still be an MP for another two year, it seems | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
almost impossible to get rid of anybody from the Lord's, some have | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
gone to jail and they are back in the Lords. People think you look | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
after yourselves? That does need to be addressed, particularly in the | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
Lords. We could have made progress on that, except we were looking to | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
make the Lords more democratic and I supported that. There was the Lord | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
Steel Bill looking to do that. Maybe we'll return to that because there | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
was wide support for that. Very difficult to do it in the Commons | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
where you are by very chug of the fact you are elected you aranceable | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
to constituents and there's a lot of difficulty in differentiating | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
between your constituents who want yew out because you have done | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
something wrong and those who don't like the judgment you have taken | :30:18. | :30:28. | |
:30:28. | :30:29. | ||
whether on gay marriages or whatever. We should revisit the idea | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
of rooting out the bad barons. have the headline already. The | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
policy follows! It is outrageous that people can continue sitting in | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
the House of Lords. And the coalition is going to add another 50 | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
of them. While it has been impossible to change the Lords, | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
unfortunately governments have had to stuff them with their own people | :30:51. | :30:59. | |
to make the Parliamentary process work to deliver their commitments. | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
There was cross-party consensus on reducing the size of the Lords. They | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
got it down to 450 and now it has shot up again and we have lost all | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
of the gains we made. Nick Clegg speaking of the coalition, got his | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
way childcare reform. Yes, he did. It is one of these coalition | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
problems where they should have had the argument much earlier. It is | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
embarrassing for it to have got to this stage. I think it is the right | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
decision. It is a very bad policy. If the conservative side of the | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
coalition want to go ahead with it, they can put it in their manifesto | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
and see if parents will vote for the chance that their child is the one | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
at the back of the class choking on an apple with nobody noticing | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
because there are too many toddlers running around at the same time. | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
While we were fair, there was the appalling event in Woolwich. What | :31:50. | :31:57. | |
are your thoughts? It was appalling. The one thing I raised about this | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
was the communications data Bill. Not as a knee-jerk reaction, for | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
goodness sake. We have been talking about this since 2008. The coalition | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
agreed to put forward a draft bill in the Queen 's speech last year. A | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
very good cross-party committee suggested amendments to it that said | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
that legislation was necessary, and it vanishes from the Queens speech. | :32:20. | :32:27. | |
This is serious stuff. The nature of coalition politics. You would think, | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
knowing there is such a gap in the ability of security forces to track | :32:31. | :32:39. | |
these people, but it would be a matter of consensus. Michael. | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
things stood out for me, one was the women who intervened at the time of | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
the murder with extraordinary courage. And then apparently in two | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
cases they quietly went home. And after a few days, the dignity of the | :32:53. | :33:02. | |
family, who said that he would not have wished anybody to be harmed, | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
because by that time, there were a lot of incidents being committed | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
against Muslim people and institutions. I spoke to Jim Murphy | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
on the Sunday politics last weekend, shadow defence secretary, and he | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
spoke quite kindly towards the idea of what the critics call the | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
snooper's charter. The Conservatives want it and Labour is leading that | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
way as well. Is this another cause of coalition tension, because the | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
Lib Dems are stopping it? It is a serious point of tension. This idea | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
of potential excessive intrusiveness, and being too willing | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
to believe what the security forces or police say they need, this is a | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
hot button issue for Lib Dem activist and it is very delicate | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
phonic leg. But I agree that this is a very serious issue and they should | :33:54. | :34:01. | |
look at what is genuinely needed. Let's apply the common sense from | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
our last discussion. The suspects were well-known to security forces | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
anyway. And radicalised at college, which is the most awful thing about | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
it. Thank you for being with us. Now, we like to think we're an open | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
book here on This Week, rather than an open wound, as our sinister BBC | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
handlers would have you believe. And to prove our point, I can tonight | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
exclusively reveal that my invitation to the Bilderberg slumber | :34:27. | :34:34. | |
party in Watford has somehow got lost in the post. Alan can | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
exclusively reveal that he's stopped receiving death threats from a | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
certain Ms Diane Abbott of Hackney. The restraining order helped. And | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
Michael will exclusively reveal to everyone in the green room after the | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
show, and after a couple of glasses of the blue stuff, his very latest | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
chest tattoo. Think tribal leader meets sailor boy, apparently. So, in | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
the spirit of full disclosure - good name for an autobiography - we | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
thought it was time to reveal all and put discretion in this week's | :35:03. | :35:13. | |
:35:13. | :35:26. | ||
Coronation and in that time she has not just been the head of state, but | :35:26. | :35:32. | |
the soul of discretion, unlike those in Westminster, yet again, with an | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
MP and three piers being less than discreet about their personal | :35:35. | :35:45. | |
:35:45. | :36:01. | ||
Khan, urged parents to stop giving their kids and unfair advantage, but | :36:01. | :36:05. | |
failed to declare that his daughters were employed in companies he had a | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
stake in. For those in the public eye, where do you draw the line | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
between revealing too much or too little information? Sometimes a | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
revelation can highlight an important issue, whether it be | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
Michael Douglas' slip of the tongue about sexually transmitted disease, | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
or Stephen Fry's candid admission of attempted suicide and mental | :36:25. | :36:32. | |
illness. I took a huge number of pills and a huge amount of vodka and | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
the mixture made my body convulse and I broke for ribs. Perhaps the | :36:38. | :36:43. | |
therapist was my couch is the best ways of all, a safe space where | :36:43. | :36:53. | |
:36:53. | :36:58. | ||
anyone can be as indiscreet as they has you on the therapist's couch | :36:58. | :37:06. | |
telling secrets. Yes. The idea is basically that it is famous women | :37:06. | :37:16. | |
throughout history being played by a huge number of comic actors in an | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
imagined therapist's chair. It has gone down well and everyone is | :37:19. | :37:25. | |
pleased with it. At one end of the spectrum, this week we had Michael | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
Douglas telling us more than we would ever really want to know. At | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
the other end, you have the Queen, who has never given an interview in | :37:32. | :37:40. | |
60 years. Yes.The Queen does not have to give interviews. Most people | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
in public life do have to do something. I guess if you look at | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
the dissemination of information as leveraged for power, there is no | :37:51. | :37:59. | |
need for the Queen to have two give or receive. She does not have to | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
gossip, does not have to maintain power in her own environment, | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
because she is the Queen. She does not need to get Charles over and say | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
that Kate said Camilla was ugly. She does not have to broker power, | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
because she is the Queen. As you go further down the ranks, people start | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
to use information and that is when people become indiscreet, because | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
you can gain power over people. indiscretion become part of the | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
modern cult of celebrity? One element of celebrity, as we have | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
seen with Michael Douglas, is to be indiscreet. Michael Douglas is a | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
list, Hollywood royalty. He does not have to give out information like | :38:41. | :38:46. | |
that. If you set what he has done against what Angelina Jolie did, she | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
actually gained more power and prestige and respect by giving an | :38:49. | :38:55. | |
equally intimate account of some medical procedure. With Michael | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
Douglas, it seems to have slightly backfired. I certainly do not want | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
to be a fly on the wall in their bedroom. That would be very | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
indiscreet! Do you think indiscretion is something we live | :39:10. | :39:16. | |
with more because of celebrity culture? I think that is right, but | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
I think sexism has been applied to Michael Douglas. I do not see why | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
Angelina Jolie is praised for what she said and Michael Douglas is in | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
some way condemned for what he said. They are both about things that | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
happened. I don't know if anyone condemned Michael Douglas, apart | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
from possibly Catherine Zito Jones. The rather snotty way that Andrew | :39:40. | :39:47. | |
has introduced the thing this evening. Michael Douglas, having | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
apparently said this, when it got into the public domain he said, no, | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
I did not say it, I have been misreported. I have heard that | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
before. And then the who did the interview released the tape and what | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
he said was exactly what he said. That is why we would all put | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
Angelina Jolie in a different category from the Michael Douglas. | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
All I am saying is that if the idea is that we are going to help the | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
poor to understand that if we have these medical problems we should be | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
honest about them, if we are going to educate people about things that | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
can go wrong in life, Michael Douglas has helped us to do that. On | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
the subject of the Queen, the great thing about the Queen is that you | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
might think somebody who has been discreet for 60 years is very dull. | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
The magnificent thing about the Queen, who I have met on a couple of | :40:39. | :40:46. | |
occasions, is that she... Not that you want to name drop, as I said to | :40:46. | :40:52. | |
the Queen last week! It is remarkable that somebody who is not | :40:52. | :41:02. | |
:41:02. | :41:03. | ||
dial has managed for 60 years not to get into trouble. Just one second. | :41:03. | :41:10. | |
The whole issue... If you are a public figure, you have to give | :41:10. | :41:17. | |
interviews. Exact lead. Celebrity culture is driven by a 24-7 News, | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
magazines full of this gossip. If you give interviews, you will | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
eventually make an indiscretion. Green macro it is no longer chip | :41:25. | :41:34. | |
paper. It is on the internet forever. You want to be very careful | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
about what you say. You do wonder why public figures do not engage the | :41:38. | :41:44. | |
brain before speaking. James Karin made a speech about not giving | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
people a leg up and it turns out his kids are working in his company. -- | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
James Karin. Maybe he has never met them before. Maybe it was a surprise | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
to him. That did seem an extraordinary oversight on his | :41:58. | :42:05. | |
part. Is it right that it is in your contract that every week we have to | :42:05. | :42:12. | |
mention your memoirs. It is in my contract, yes, and you have two say | :42:12. | :42:19. | |
it is available in all good book shops. You wrote very movingly and | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
fascinatingly about your family. Did you ever think that was indiscreet? | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
It is a good point. It is a long time ago. It finishes when I am 18. | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
It is when you write recent events that you take that risk. Also, if | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
you are opening up that part of your life, are you fair game for the | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
whole of your life? I hope not. is a weak argument. There were | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
journalists saying at the levels and enquiry that people love to use | :42:47. | :42:55. | |
their family when they want to. us something indiscreet. I will tell | :42:55. | :43:02. | |
you afterwards, but that is about the Queen. Tell Michael. I will be | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
surprised. That's your lot for tonight, folks. | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
But not for us, because it's swivel-eyed loons night at Annabel's | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
and Michael's promised to man the tombola. First prize, a signed photo | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
of former PM John Major. Second prize, two signed photos of former | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
PM John Major. Third prize, three signed photos... Oh, you get the | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
idea. But we leave you tonight with Labour's latest proposals on | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
welfare. After the Prime Minister claimed Ed Miliband had been taking | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
policy-altering substances, Labour released a special policy video to | :43:26. | :43:32. |