Browse content similar to 18/07/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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More drama in the NHS, as politicians clash over who's to | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
blame for failing hospitals. Paediatrician and CBeebies doctor | :00:19. | :00:29. | |
:00:29. | :00:31. | ||
Ranj Singh gives us his diagnosis. No recent government has a clean | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
bill of health when it comes to interfering with the NHS. It is time | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
to put patients before politics. With public health U-turns on | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
tobacco and alcohol, The Economist's Anne McElvoy asks whether the nanny | :00:41. | :00:49. | |
state always knows best. They have been squabbling like toddlers at the | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
dispatch 's, but it is not about the policy. All that any mum wants to | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
say is, it is his fault. And with the sport of athletics on | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
life support following yet more drug-taking, Uri Geller talks about | :01:00. | :01:07. | |
the power of reputation. reputation is being a mind-reader, | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
but there is much more to it than meets the eye. | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
Shall we turn off the life support machine and go on holiday? Matron, I | :01:14. | :01:24. | |
Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week. And thank the Lord - Patten - for | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
his merciful ways. We come to the final show of the series. I suspect, | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
dear viewer, this is as much a relief to you as it is to us. But at | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
least we get paid, even if it is only a pittance, the small change | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
left down the sofa by the latest BBC executive to trouser a massive pay | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
off. But you deserve more, a princely sum, for having to sit | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
through the usual self-serving drivel from the worst shirts in | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
showbusiness. But I digress. It's often said, mostly by us when we | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
can't think of anything else to say, that the problem with today's | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
politicians is they don't actually believe in anything. Remember the | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
good old days, we drone, when Labour believed in representing the | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
interests of the plebs while the Tories looked after the maters and | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
paters of the thick poshos on Made in Chelsea, and the Lib Dems | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
believed in representing the interests of dope-smoking stoners | :02:13. | :02:19. | |
with a kinky interest in proportional representation? But | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
this week there stepped forward a politician who does believe in | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
something, faith-based Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
Smith, who, when challenged to provide evidence to show his | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
benefits cap would work, dismissed the need for anything so grubby and | :02:30. | :02:37. | |
empirical. "I have a belief I am right," he exclaimed. Of course, he | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
couldn't actually prove it was working but no-one could disprove it | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
wasn't either, which sort of puts the benefit cap on a par with God. | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
Or the Loch Ness monster. Or both. Speaking of those who make it up as | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
they go along, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two mini heat waves. | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
Think of them as the hot flush and hot lips of late night political | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
chat. I speak, of course, of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson, and | :03:02. | :03:12. | |
:03:12. | :03:16. | ||
#sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo Choo" Portillo. | :03:16. | :03:24. | |
Michael, your moment of the week. Molly the dog has woken up to hear | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
it. I bumped into a field marshal, a former chief of the defence staff, | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
who agrees with me that we do not need an independent nuclear | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
deterrent. He asked me how we get politicians off the hook. It | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
occurred to me this week that the way is what the Liberal Democrats | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
are proposing. The Liberal Democrats, like all politicians, | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
will not go the whole hog and say, let's get rid of nuclear weapons. | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
But they are saying, let's save half the cost and only have nuclear | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
weapons deployed at sea for half the time, when we think the threat is | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
rising. And I think, over a period of time, this would get the | :04:03. | :04:11. | |
politicians of the hook. They would save half the cost. I am glad the | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
field marshal agrees with you, unlike the secretaries of State for | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
defence who do not agree with you. Among secretaries of state, I am in | :04:20. | :04:27. | |
a minority. Among Field marshals, I am not sure. Field marshals do not | :04:27. | :04:34. | |
have the deterrent. It is the Navy. Well spotted. The acquittal of | :04:34. | :04:41. | |
George Zimmerman. In the United States. Here is a young black kid | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
walking back from a store, completely innocent, gets attacked | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
by a guy with a gun, virtually every June anti-. He has nothing. It takes | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
the police 44 days to charge him, because they say that self | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
protection law did not allow them to prosecute, and then he is acquitted | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
of murder and of manslaughter as well. America has not just got its | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
first lack resident in Obama, but its first black Attorney General, | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
and there are many who feel it is still back in the 1950s, when that | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
kind of thing could happen. I would have thought the reaction would be | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
much worse. So would I. We grew up looking at black-and-white film of | :05:23. | :05:32. | |
all kinds of things happening. just that. But Rodney King provoked | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
several days of riots. It is great that has not happened, but it is | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
still in competence of or how they could reach that decision. It is | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
amazing. Now, what's the closest thing we | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
have to a national religion? Other than women's football. The NHS, of | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
course. Politically, it's been untouchable, impossible to | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
criticise. Has that all changed this week? Labour and Tory front benches | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
lashed out, following a report into failing hospitals this week, trying | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
to blame each other. But is it not the role of a candid friend to be | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
critical? And what do the medical profession think? We turned to NHS | :06:07. | :06:17. | |
:06:17. | :06:39. | ||
doctor and CBeebies presenter Ranj the opening ceremony of the | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
Olympics. The National Health Service was celebrated as a national | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
treasure. There were scenes of children jumping on beds with nurses | :06:48. | :06:55. | |
dancing around them, almost like a scene from my TV show. One year on, | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
the rose tinted picture of the NHS is shattered. This week the | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
government announced it was placing 11 hospital trust is into special | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
measures because of major failings, such as staffing problems, poor care | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
and weak leadership. As a doctor who worked in one of those trusts, I | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
must say I am not surprised. Despite high levels of dedication and | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
determination, staff are overstretched, some too exhausted | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
and too scared to speak up. Others have fallen into the comfort of | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
complacency. More and more money is sucked up by managers, bureaucracy | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
and consultants, and leaders appear complacent, or even careless. This | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
is not limited to a small number of hospitals. It is happening up and | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
down the country. Watching political parties clash over who is to blame | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
for failing hospitals is a depressing sight, but politicians | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
have never been able to leave the NHS alone. Labour brought in endless | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
targets which meant some hospitals rushed patients through to meet | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
them. And they set up the Care Quality Commission, which in itself | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
seems unfit for purpose. Despite promising no more top-down | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
reorganisation of the NHS, the current government is doing just | :08:10. | :08:18. | |
that. That is the diagnosis, but what would I prescribe? Changes to | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
the NHS do need to be made but they should be dictated by the needs of | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
patients, not politicians. Anyone who has worked in the NHS will know | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
there is a great deal of wastage and efficiencies can be made. It drives | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
me mad to see nurses filling in endless reports and forms and not | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
having time to do their job. It is not about nurses being too clever to | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
care, but about not having enough time. We also need to think about | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
our expectations and what the NHS can provide. That might involve a | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
radical revision of how we meet those needs. In children's care, my | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
specialism, the future is likely to involve the development of better | :08:56. | :09:03. | |
specialist units that -- supporting fewer improved satellite sites, and | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
better integration into primary care. We are going to have to learn | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
to live with less, including politicians, and they will have to | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
be brave enough to back the streamlining of services, even if it | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
involves closures within their constituencies. I love and respect | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
our NHS. We all want it to be like the picture portrayed in the Olympic | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
opening ceremony, but we are going to have to be honest about the bad | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
it's as well as the good. Until we acknowledge the floors, we cannot | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
make the improvements that are necessary. But one thing is for | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
sure, if we carry on as we are, there is a very real risk that the | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
NHS will burn out. And from the View Tube garden | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
overlooking the Olympic Park to our own little garden of Eden in the | :09:48. | :09:56. | |
heart of Westminster, Dr Ranj joins us now. You worked at the Medway | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
Foundation Trust. Yes.You said you are not surprised it is being put | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
into special measures. Why are doctors, clinicians and bureaucrats | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
working there, why are they scared to speak out? I would not say I am | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
an expert on why they are, and I am not a politician but I do work in | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
the coal face, and I am one of the people who has been involved and | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
affected by everything that is going on with the NHS. Why are they scared | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
to speak out? The biggest fear is that no one is listening. Not just | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
that no one is listening, but that they will be suppressed. We are | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
listening now, but is it too late? Is there still enough that we can | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
do? To be honest, people need to listen, but there is listening and | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
then there is acting on what people are saying. If you have pressure | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
coming from the top, from various organisations, it is very difficult | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
to get your voice heard. You say the problems are more widespread than | :10:56. | :11:03. | |
even after the Bruce Keogh report. That looked at 14 trusts and | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
highlighted several deficiencies and recommended improvements, but every | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
hospital around the country has scope to improve to some extent. | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
These are not problems that are unique to those 14 trusts is. The | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
difficulty is that they are full of April that are working their hardest | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
to make it work. There is a very small proportion that could do | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
better, I agree, but the vast majority are doing the best they | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
can. It is not their fault. As a former health secretary, why does it | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
take a report like this to bring these terrible failures to light? | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
Why don't ministers, civil servants, special advisers, why | :11:41. | :11:48. | |
don't they know already? Because you set up independent regulators to be | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
separate from government and to go in and do the job that ministers and | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
civil servants cannot do properly. Previous regulators did not do it | :11:55. | :12:05. | |
:12:05. | :12:06. | ||
very well. What Bruce Keogh has got, they sent a team in of not just | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
clinicians but also patient representatives and GPs and nurses | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
and others, a team of 12 to 14, and they looked to see not just a | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
technical appraisal, but a cultural appraisal. They spoke a lot to | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
patients and staff. That was not the traditional way of doing | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
inspections. We are grasping for a way of getting better regulation. | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
When you were health secretary, did you have no idea that these things | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
could be happening in certain hospitals? I did, because the Health | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
Care Commision, the predecessor of the Care Quality Commission, were | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
telling us. They went into Stafford and gave us the report. They went | :12:45. | :12:55. | |
into Maidstone. Those reports then come to you, but we need to have an | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
independent regulator. The word independent is very meaningful. The | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
other thing that you point out is a separate issue where politicians | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
and, I think, clinicians, have to be brave enough to say the whole way | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
that the NHS is configured, which is a hospital based service, has to | :13:14. | :13:21. | |
change. But they are two separate issues. Let me put two things to you | :13:21. | :13:28. | |
for discussion. The way the NHS is configured, the organisational roots | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
go back to the 1940s. No Secretary of State for health can control what | :13:32. | :13:39. | |
is going on in it. It is too centralised and too vast for one | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
politician. Nigel Lawson once said the NHS was a religion. Is that the | :13:45. | :13:53. | |
reason we don't get the service we deserve? Yes, on the second point. | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
It has become a religion and it has become immune to reform and on that | :13:58. | :14:08. | |
first point, it is the classic nationalised industry, it is far too | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
big and it be then at -- it benefits the people employed rather than the | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
people who service should be delivered to. To say that it is | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
because people are under pressure, in some of these cases it is | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
perfectly clear that there was absolute neglect and neglect by the | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
people whose job it was to look after people directly but there must | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
be neglect by every consultant who walks the wards and sees people | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
lying in their own urine. Dying of thirst. And he did not think about | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
that. I don't think it is honest to say that we have asked nurses to | :14:47. | :14:56. | |
fill out too many forms. It takes being on the shopfloor to understand | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
the intricacies of the NHS and there are a vast to people doing an | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
amazing job and those who get highlighted by the tiniest | :15:04. | :15:11. | |
proportion and we should address that but if we are honest, you say | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
the NHS is immune to reform. If so, stop trying to reform it. Every | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
government comes in and there is another reorganisation which is not | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
always based on evidence or welcome and it takes time to recover. | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
Sometimes it is a good idea and we need to change things to make them | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
better but the problem is we only are just getting to the point where | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
we are starting to get to grips with things and someone comes in and | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
changes it. Let me explain, firstly that we continue the model of a | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
single National Health Service and what is wrong is the national part, | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
we are trying to manage an organisation of 1 million people and | :15:55. | :16:01. | |
not only is that unwieldy but it means we have a lack of local | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
sensitivity and a lack of competition, in the sense of some | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
people doing things better than one place than in others. Therefore, | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
people have the urge to catch up. And the great prejudice against | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
using the private sector which has existed over the decades, and I am | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
afraid that I think the deterioration of the National Health | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
Service and its reputation is actually important to bringing about | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
something quite different in the future, something better. You talk | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
about streamlining and centralising services. You could argue that it is | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
always far too centralised? Nobody at the centre can control it? The | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
Danish have a system like ours, funded by taxation, free at the | :16:48. | :16:55. | |
point of use and does not matter what your wealth is, you get care. | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
But it is locally controlled? And the people who run that locally are | :16:59. | :17:06. | |
held to account by their local community. Yes, but we need to | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
realise that their society and environment is different. We can put | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
other countries and learn from them and that is a good idea but we need | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
to put things into context and one of those points was that you said no | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
politician can control the NHS so then stop using it as a pawn. It has | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
come the piggy in the middle and the people at the heart of the NHS, | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
working and striving and trying to make things work, they are being | :17:33. | :17:40. | |
danced around. But is because of any hospital goes belly up or it is | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
discovered that hundreds are dying, it should not be the Secretary of | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
State in London, who has never been to that hospital... The media will | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
hold them accountable? If it deadpan falls on the floor, it echoes around | :17:55. | :18:03. | |
the country. Rudolf Klein, the great historian, said we have been through | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
control and we are going back to locally driven watchwords of the | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
Primary Care Trusts and they have been thrown up into the air and I | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
don't understand Michael 's reference to the nationalised | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
industry. The problems of the NHS are nothing to do with it being | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
publicly owned, they are to do with, in a sense, producer capture was | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
right, they always had a system for balancing books, it was called the | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
waiting list. They stopped operating in November because it was the end | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
of the financial year. Once those waiting lists were driven down, they | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
had to sort out finances and you will remember not just Patricia | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
Hewitt getting trotted out, it is not as if we went through our time | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
in office and we were keen not to upset the workforce - that had to | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
happen to put the NHS on a more stable footing. The problem is the | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
concentration on quality and if you could concentrate on quality, | :19:00. | :19:07. | |
locally driven, yes, and get on with it, I think that has been one of the | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
major problems. We will let you former Health Secretary have the | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
final word. Using my telepathic powers... I know what you're | :19:18. | :19:27. | |
thinking. I hear the words... Blue. None. Hangover in the morning. But I | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
also have a strange, tinkling sensation. Waiting in the wings, a | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
mystery to all of us, the one and only Uri Geller. He will talk about | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
the power of reputation. For those of you who don't have any reputation | :19:43. | :19:51. | |
to lose, get ready to be ignored on social media. The anticipation is | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
rising and temperatures rise, the press corps sufferers. Camp outside | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
a London hospital, waiting for the arrival of an overdue royal baby. | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
Even Her Majesty brokers silence, she just wanted to arrive so she can | :20:05. | :20:13. | |
go off on her holidays. We said the Economist's Anne McElvoy to do a | :20:13. | :20:22. | |
spot of preparation. This is a round-up of the political week. | :20:22. | :20:30. | |
the brakes on. I have been jittery this week, like Mr Fleet Street, | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
waiting for the arrival of a certain baby. Even the Queen has been | :20:35. | :20:42. | |
expecting... I am going on holidays! My brood are safely locked up in the | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
education system so I borrowed Agnes and Joseph to remind me of the joys | :20:47. | :20:53. | |
of childcare. I might even put myself forward as a Mary Poppins to | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
the new Prince or Princess. I am sure she could use my experience in | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
dealing with the little ones. Like some of our Parliament dreams, they | :21:04. | :21:07. | |
have resorted to squabbling and throwing temper tantrums. Come on, | :21:07. | :21:17. | |
:21:17. | :21:31. | ||
they will be born into a tide of restorative. People on welfare, not | :21:31. | :21:38. | |
in work, apart from those who are exempt, such as the disabled, they | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
should not be earning more than average earnings after tax, which is | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
fair to the taxpayers. The thinking is pretty clear, stop those on | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
benefits you do not seem to be able to stop having children, from | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
claiming too much. But that puts Labour in a difficult position. They | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
are in favour of a benefits cap, just not the one on offer. The | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
benefit cap is good idea in principle but the one today has | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
proven such a shambles in practice so we have learned that there are | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
4000 families, about 10%, with large hammers of children who will not | :22:08. | :22:16. | |
come under this when introduced. Hang on, Liam Byrne actually thinks | :22:16. | :22:26. | |
:22:26. | :22:28. | ||
that it is to lose. And some Lib Dems say, that is not very... It is | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
about the worst kind of politics and chasing popular is that the expense | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
of children's world being is not something I care for. She is a nice | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
lady! Well, Joseph, you might like that Lady butter attitude is not | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
very popular. So, she is also thinking about the next election and | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
the need to separate the Lib Dems from those nasty Tories. The | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
Conservatives are determined to keep welfare cuts at the heart of their | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
pitch for election. It might be brittle but it is probably quite | :22:59. | :23:09. | |
:23:09. | :23:13. | ||
effective. -- brittle. -- brutal. It is important to keep the little ones | :23:13. | :23:23. | |
:23:23. | :23:23. | ||
cool, otherwise they can get grumpy. Delightful child! But there have | :23:23. | :23:29. | |
been noises at the dispatch box over something rather serious - report | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
into failures at some NHS hospitals. The Tories say... It is all his | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
fault! And the Labour Party say... It is all his fault! This has been a | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
decisive week by the way the NHS plays into politics. The shift that | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
matters is that the health service is no longer beyond criticism. If | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
the NHS is considered labourers crowning achievement, today is no | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
darkest moment. As a Labour government is exposed as caring more | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
about its own reputation and our most vulnerable citizens in the NHS. | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
You should not play politics with people 's lives with the NHS, on | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
which all people depend. As a well-known childcare guru, I find | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
the hardest thing is to get children to give away their choice, even when | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
they are finished playing with them. I bet Liberal Democrat children do | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
not get to play with heavy weaponry. They have been back on their hobby | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
horse, asking us to reconsider the nuclear deterrent. It is time to | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
move on from the Cold War, to adapt our deterrents to the 21st century | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
in a way that does not copy my 's national security. The only thing | :24:43. | :24:51. | |
that has changed is that the fights between Tories and Lib Dems seem to | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
have eased. It is a longer unthinkable to think that we could | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
have another Cornish and after the next election. Our prime minister | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
does not like the nanny state much. What do you reckon? Did he not like | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
his nanny when he was little? And the prices of cigarette packaging | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
stays the same. But it's about politics, which give Labour the | :25:15. | :25:25. | |
:25:25. | :25:25. | ||
chance to take Mr Lynton Crosby. Ed Miliband 's narrative is of rich, | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
cynical conservatives. Has he ever had any conversation with Lynton | :25:30. | :25:37. | |
Crosby about cigarette packaging? has never lobbied me on anything but | :25:37. | :25:46. | |
if he wants a scandal, why doesn't he faced the fact that the trade | :25:46. | :25:52. | |
unions by his Cabinet and his leadership. He is the Prime Minister | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
for Benson and hedge funds Santino is at! But the Tories are off with a | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
spring in their step for summer, even stop moaning. Ed Miliband might | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
relish the royal baby as a distraction from his modest poll | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
ratings amid doubts of whether we can envisage him up on the steps of | :26:11. | :26:21. | |
:26:21. | :26:22. | ||
number ten. But you learn to love them in the end! Joseph? ! The Mary | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
Poppins of the programme. Brandon Jones, welcome back. The Tories, | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
very surprising that the stage, going off to the recess with a | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
spring in their step, the economy is improving from a low base. Do they | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
believe they might win the next election? Yes, I think so. We have | :26:43. | :26:49. | |
had the whole service, the economy, going well, advocate either has gone | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
home. The economy going better. The Prime Minister is doing better at | :26:55. | :27:03. | |
questions. I have mentioned this before but as I see it, there are | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
these firm rules and politics and when the public decides of the | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
leader of the opposition is not prime ministerial behaviour, that | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
person does not win. Neil Kinnock, Michael Howard. Iain Duncan Smith. | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
But the second rule is, you do not increase their share of the vote | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
went in office. And David Cameron only got 37% and he needs more for | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
the majority. He needs 40%. And he was off that last time and it would | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
be extraordinary if they could put on three percentage points. Some | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
Tories believe they could win the outright majority but I do not think | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
they can explain how that could happen. Rand, good news for Mr Clegg | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
and the Lib Dems that Mr Cameron and the Tories have spring in their | :27:48. | :27:58. | |
:27:58. | :27:59. | ||
step? I think so, but the big? whether or not the UK economy | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
recovery can mean the Lib Dems recover? If things are getting | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
better for the coalition, particularly on the economic front, | :28:09. | :28:15. | |
the Tories, the danger is, they get the credit? That is true but the Lib | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
Dems are in good heart and they feel that the year has gone well and the | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
East the by-election was the turning point. And they have slightly more | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
focused messages than before. The big decision for them is whether or | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
not they continue with this idea that they need to differentiate all | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
the time and say, the Tories are the nasty party and we are the nice | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
ones. Or if, in the run-up to the general election, actually carry on | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
saying, this is what the coalition can do in the times of national | :28:47. | :28:54. | |
crisis. And getting a balance right is truly difficult. This is the | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
point in the political cycle, halfway between elections, when the | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
government of the day is meant to be in the doldrums and the opposition | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
is meant to be unrealistically ahead in opinion polls. What has gone | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
wrong? The coalition must be wishing they had for years as a fixed | :29:13. | :29:20. | |
parliament! Because a lot can happen. But Michael spoke about | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
those general rules and is another general rule that only once in the | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
last 80 years as a party one an election the first time after | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
losing. After five years out of office. That is a very big task. The | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
reason I am encouraged, and I do agree, Cameron has got a spring in | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
his step and Clegg, I thought he would go before the next general | :29:41. | :29:48. | |
election. He is looking less likely. And he has this Zen like transfer | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
all of this stuff is going on around him. But the thing about Ed Miliband | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
is, do not underestimate his speech about levy payers. What he has done | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
in reaction to what was happening at Falkirk is huge stuff. Provided it | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
is carried through and we talk about clause four, but this is even | :30:08. | :30:15. | |
bigger. If this comes off, it shows a level of leadership that I think | :30:15. | :30:20. | |
will perhaps not put him in that position that Neil Kinnock and the | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
others were in. If Labour struggled to get too far ahead in the polls | :30:25. | :30:32. | |
when the economy was in the tag, what happens if the worst is over | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
and things are improving? labour, and the issue has always | :30:36. | :30:44. | |
been the NHS, but they are even on the back foot on that. They are | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
still ahead on that. But that first part of the Parliament... We got the | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
lowest, second lowest votes... It is a long way to come back and we were | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
sitting ducks in the economy. To be blamed for that. I would not take | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
that as anything provided but it is all to play for and the IMF said | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
that we are very long way from a sustainable recovery. No one says | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
this is a recovery of the time we have known before. Lynton Crosby, | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
Michael, is he a problem for Mr Cameron or is he the reason that the | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
Tory message is more focused and sharper and much more resonating? | :31:25. | :31:32. | |
think of. He is probably less of a problem than he is because of | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
success. The focus is being successful. And they are hurling | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
overboard policies that were upsetting the grassroots. Getting | :31:43. | :31:50. | |
rid of the barnacles on the boat? I think it is a problem. But Lynton | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
Crosby has a consultancy that has Philip Morris, the tobacco company. | :31:55. | :32:05. | |
But for the moment the damage that does to the Tory party, at this | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
stage, cannot be prepared -- compared with any benefits. Are the | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
Lib Dems comfortable with Lynton Crosby? They will be very | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
comfortable if he becomes a problem for the Conservative Party. I am | :32:19. | :32:28. | |
sure that Michael is right. It is not difficult to understand that the | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
man in charge might be privy to the party and it is like Bill Clinton, | :32:35. | :32:42. | |
these denials. Why not just come clean? Yes, of course we have | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
discussed this and I know he has paid for one side of the argument so | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
I don't let that influence by judgement. It would be much better. | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
Isn't one of the problems when looking at the coalition at the | :32:54. | :33:01. | |
moment, it is Cameron and the Tories that everybody is talking about? The | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
way it has been covered, not covered as a coalition, it is covered | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
overwhelmingly as Conservative lead? There is an article in the new | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
statesman about that. Cameron has always been a very good performer. | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
He did not seem to have a good machine around him in the early | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
years and part of that was deciding that he did not need all of these | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
levers at Downing Street, and he criticised Tony Blair for having too | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
many special advisers. He soon learned that if you have not got | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
those leaders at the centre, nothing will happen. They have smartened up | :33:36. | :33:45. | |
but it is a long way. And I would be more worried, in a sense, if we were | :33:45. | :33:52. | |
picking too early. He might have peaked too soon? ! The BBC does not | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
forget that this coalition government has not faced the | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
opposition, from the BBC, but Margaret Thatcher did. That is | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
because the BBC does not have the right to attack a government that | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
got 60% of the vote and things like the schools reforms and the National | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
Health Service reforms, welfare reforms, they have been allied | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
through by the media, largely represented in the BBC, in a way | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
that they would not have been if they had been Thatcher reforms. | :34:22. | :34:28. | |
Minority or majority Conservative government. That is partly true but | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
obviously it is very much in the interest of the Lib Dems to pipe up | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
as much as they can about their priorities and things like taking | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
the poorest out of income tax, but, surprisingly, does resonate on the | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
doorsteps and it is very important that they get that policy. In | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
Eastleigh, they proved they got the credit for that and in their next | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
manifesto, they want to make that more ambitious, everyone earning | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
minimum wage is out of income tax. That is clearly identifiable. And | :34:56. | :35:03. | |
you can own that in the future. On a scale of 1-10, ten being most | :35:03. | :35:13. | |
:35:13. | :35:15. | ||
likely, what is the chance of Nick and Dave returning? After 2015? As | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
Allen has said, quite rightly, there is a very long way to go but I think | :35:19. | :35:26. | |
it is quite likely. About seven or eight. But I think it is very | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
dangerous. If, going into the election, there is too much of the | :35:29. | :35:37. | |
stuff about bloodlines and there is some pre-negotiation. The electorate | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
will not like that. They must go but down. They have to stand down on | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
that. I would not have put the number as high as that but I am in | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
no doubt that the number is rising. More likely than Conservative | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
victory. If she is right, we will never mention that again! If she is | :35:55. | :36:05. | |
:36:05. | :36:10. | ||
wrong... You will be ridiculed! Like all BBC programmes, we spend our | :36:10. | :36:16. | |
budget on focus groups. Alan Johnson is universally admired as a man from | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
humble beginnings who rose to several great offices of state whose | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
dignity, intellect, sheer likeability puts other politicians | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
to shame. And Michael is the funny guy with the strange accent always | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
talking to himself on a train. Does it matter what people think of us | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
and what can we do to change people's perception. We have no | :36:37. | :36:47. | |
:36:47. | :36:57. | ||
idea. Attitude of the world 's fastest men drug tested positive, | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
causing a shadow to fall over the anniversary of the London politics. | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
This year 's outstanding ride by Chris Froome has forced him to | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
confront the reputation of his sport has for breaking the rules. I can | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
understand why people are asking this, given the history of the sport | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
and they have been let down so many times before. I am also one of those | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
people that has been let down, I also believed in people who have | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
turned out to be cheats and liars. But I can assure you, I am not. | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
Stuart Broad challenged crickets repetition as gentleman 's game. | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
refused to leave his wicket after clearly being caught out. Unlike JK | :37:37. | :37:43. | |
rolling, who has been caught out concealing her identity. And she was | :37:43. | :37:51. | |
a true author of this book. Using an alias. How powerful can reputation | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
be and how hard can it be to shake? Lynton Crosby's reputation certainly | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
seems to be growing at Westminster and as the old saying goes, there is | :38:00. | :38:09. | |
no cigarette smoke without fire. Uri Geller joins us. How much does your | :38:09. | :38:16. | |
reputation matter? I created my repetition and I moulded it and I | :38:16. | :38:24. | |
twisted it. Consciously? Absolutely, out of necessity. The | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
best thing that could have happened to me was controversy. So, my | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
reputation is shrouded with controversy. And that is great. As | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
long as they talk about me and mention my name, Oscar Wilde said, | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
there is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
being talked about. Yes, but repetition is absolutely important. | :38:48. | :38:58. | |
:38:58. | :38:59. | ||
But when I read about JK, that is a great PR move. Think about that, it | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
has been done 1 million times before. Full page in the Sunday | :39:04. | :39:11. | |
Times! Exactly. In a superficial level, your reputation, which people | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
will always remember as the man who then spins. But according to a new | :39:17. | :39:24. | |
documentary, there is a lot more than that? That is true. Over 40 | :39:24. | :39:32. | |
years, I have read minds, stopped Big Ben. It was rather quirky and | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
bizarre and unusual. I was never in the taken seriously. But, parallel | :39:37. | :39:45. | |
to that, to that show business lifestyle and the entertainer, I did | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
quite amazing things for many different intelligence agencies | :39:49. | :39:59. | |
around the world. Including the CIA? Absolutely, an arm of the CIA | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
got me out of Israel in 1972, to test my abilities and skills and | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
might are normal powers to see whether they could be used for their | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
purposes. How long did you do that? For a long time. And what amazed me | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
in this documentary by the revelations that I did not even know | :40:21. | :40:31. | |
:40:31. | :40:33. | ||
about. The director, he is an Oscar winner, and I told him how I did it | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
but he must have used his reputation, adding the Oscar, his | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
charisma, his charm and personality, to get the information, to extract | :40:41. | :40:48. | |
the information from these people. Here is a man with a reputation for | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
ending spoons and being an intriguing character and doing | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
things we cannot explain, and doing it with great style and energy, and | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
it turns out that he has been working for the CIA? What does that | :41:02. | :41:10. | |
do? What it will do, it will enhance the feeling or triggered the belief | :41:10. | :41:17. | |
system in people that, hey, maybe Uri Geller does possess certain | :41:17. | :41:24. | |
powers. Otherwise the CIA would not be bothering? Look at his answer | :41:24. | :41:30. | |
about JK rolling, it is publicity! This is amazing. There is an entire | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
reputation on top of the previous one. We are not heart of this border | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
city! Alan, do you worry about your repetition? No, I did whenever I was | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
a minister, it is difficult not to, you read about it every day. | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
your reputation decides the repetition of the government so if | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
you make a big problem, then... Allen has done a reputational clue, | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
adding a book that reveals an entire side that most of us did not know | :42:00. | :42:08. | |
about. I think, in a way, we are all added. What are these doing for your | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
repetition? Making people think about me as a broadcaster, which is | :42:12. | :42:19. | |
true. Which is what you want? It is what you are? It is nice when I meet | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
people in the street and they say, you are the man who did the trains, | :42:24. | :42:30. | |
not the man... That is what you wanted to do and it is hard to shake | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
off any reputation as a Conservative minister? ! It takes a while. And | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
one dissolves into the other. But I do believe that what really | :42:40. | :42:47. | |
overpowers your reputation is your deep personality. If you are a nice | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
person and charming, and you smile. And you are open to everyone and you | :42:53. | :43:02. | |
:43:03. | :43:04. | ||
sign autographed, that is all you need. So what is he going to do?He | :43:04. | :43:13. | |
has got it. We are going to put your reputation on the line here. Kate's | :43:13. | :43:21. | |
baby, boy or girl? I knew you would ask me. My wife is in the green | :43:21. | :43:30. | |
room. Ask her. She is great at that. What do you think, Michael? Boyet.A | :43:30. | :43:40. | |
:43:40. | :43:43. | ||
boy. When is the documentary? This Sunday after Top Gear on BBC Two. | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
That is your lot for tonight and for the summer because this was our | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
final show of the series. Alan's Private Jet is ready to whisk him | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
off. Michael's faithful manservant is ready to whisk him off to a | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
pleasure Beach. The rest of us will be getting match fit for the next | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
series, because sadly for everyone involved, we return in September, in | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
time for the Lib Dem party conference. It does not get better | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
than that dash the Lib Dem party conference, in Glasgow. Who needs | :44:13. | :44:19. | |
the French Riviera. Tonight, we will leave you with a sticky and | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
frustrated press pack waiting for Kate to deliver the good news story | :44:23. | :44:27. |