19/09/2013 This Week


19/09/2013

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And It's great to be back in business. Bring it on.

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Yes, we're back. And as the much anticipated Grand Theft Auto five

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hits the streets, This Week returns to the meaner, darker streets of Los

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Westminster. A diplomatic deal over Syria's

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chemical weapons, but the war goes on and it won't stop the violence in

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downtown Damascus. Two leading world commentators, historian Simon Schama

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and star CNN reporter, Christiane Amanpour, grab the This Week joy

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stick. I have covered the war all my career, terrible, horrifying

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experiences. But did the credible threat of force at least brings

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Syria to the table to try to destroy its chemical weapons?

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Not much violence at the Lib Dem Conference in Glasgow, as Nick Clegg

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flexes his middle-ground muscles. Commentator and journalist Mary Ann

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Sieghart assesses the political game-play. I've been watching Nick

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Clegg and Vince Cable nearly come to blows at Clegg definitely won a

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victory over his party. And fighting over the right to wear

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a veil. Glamour model and body-builder Jodie Marsh talks about

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the power of the face. Would I be brave enough to appear on TV without

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my make up? Sometimes we all need a mask to hide behind, especially on

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TV. Now lock up your car, lie back on

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the sofa and pour yourself a glass of the blue stuff.

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Evenin' all. Welcome back to a new and unimproved series of This Week,

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the late-night drunk tank of BBC current affairs, for lightweights

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who can't handle their politics or their Blue Nun. And who wouldn't be

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feeling a bit unsteady at this hour? After downing a full week of Lib Dem

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conference debate, intoxicated on a heady brew of real power, like a

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socially inept teenager given the keys to the electoral drinks

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cabinet, "Cocky" Clegg's been wearing his Deputy PM beer goggles

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all week, labouring under the illusion he's now politically

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irresistible, despite being told by poll after poll to just go home,

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sober up and stop making such a fool of himself. But "Cocky's" on a

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drunken roll. He spent the entire week trying to chat us all up,

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boasting of his success in government, his ability to

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sweet-talk the Tories, the Dr No of the Coalition, stopping the Tories

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from getting their way, even taking all the credit for the first signs

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of growth rather than the blame for it turning up so late. The only man

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to embarrass himself more was boy minister Jeremy Brown, who called

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for a national debate on what was doing more damage to the cause of

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female emancipation, Saudia Arabian face veils or Lib Dem parliamentary

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selection panels to whom women are invisible? I think we all know the

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answer to that one, Jezza. Speaking of silly questions, I'm joined on

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the sofa tonight by two very silly answers, the real boring and snoring

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of late night political chat. I speak, of course, of

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#sadmanonasunbed Peter Hain, and #sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo Choo"

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Portillo. I have missed doing that over the summer, although I think I

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need some practice. Your moment of the recess? It has to be the Syrian

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vote in parliament. I believe David Cameron was saved by being defeated,

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because he -- had he gone on to be the Prime Minister who attacked

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Syria, I do not think his reputation would have recovered. Very rarely in

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history has lead of the opposition controlled foreign policy in

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history has lead of the opposition Britain, which Ed Miliband did. Ed

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Miliband came out of it looking indecisive and shifty. You have to

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say, David Cameron is a lucky man. And international ramifications,

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which we will talk about. Peter, your moment? I had a great family

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break. But there has been a dampener over Nelson Mandela's ill-health,

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which has gone on for nearly four months, his critical condition. He

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is back home. But he has not been the person we know and who has been

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loved across the world for a long time, and he has not been the person

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we know and who has been loved across the world for a long time,

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we know and who has been loved and he's not going to be. Very

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difficult for his family, to whom I have spoken, and they are having to

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grapple with the media intrusion. At the same time, everybody wants to

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know how he is. I had almost thought he has gone home to die. Is that not

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the harsh reality? Somebody very close to him said to me, I never

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want to grow old like that. I can understand that.

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Nothing much happens here in Westminster during the summer

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recess. But things were different this year. In August, chemical

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weapons were used in the suburbs of Syria's capital, Damascus. America's

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President and Britain's Prime Minister were keen to respond with

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force but found themselves outflanked by political and

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diplomatic opponents, not to mention public opinion. This week the UN

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described the use of the weapons as a war crime and said the

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international community has a moral responsibility to hold those

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responsible accountable. But where now for a Western foreign policy

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seemingly in disarray? We turned to CNN anchor Christiane Amanpour. This

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is her take of the week. This summer has brought Syria to a

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head. For two and a half years, civil war has been waging and the

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West has not wanted to intervene, particularly President Obama, and he

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has now been brought literally kicking and screaming into having to

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do something because of the use of chemical weapons, weapons of mass

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destruction, which are prohibited by chemical weapons, weapons of mass

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international law. Our world exists chemical weapons, weapons of mass

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based on laws and norms that have to be enforced, otherwise we exist in a

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state of panic key. Just like Libya, it was Europe which

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was dressing the agenda on Syria. It was Britain and France. So I was

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stunned when I was in London covering the fact that Parliament

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voted down David Cameron's desire to take action over Syria. It is the

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first time in modern memory that Britain would not have been part of

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a coalition to actually enforce international law and strategic

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necessities. Having covered walls, I also know that limited, targeted

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strikes, no boots on the ground, are sometimes really necessary to end

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terrible, terrible, terrible, in sometimes really necessary to end

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human suffering. The only reason Vladimir Putin, president of

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Russia, and Bashar al-Assad, president of Syria, have come to the

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table now and agreed, at least verbally, to destroy and account for

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the chemical weapons there, having by the way lied about them, not

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admitted they even existed, the only reason for this development is

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because of the credible threat of US force that was on the table, and

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hopefully will stay on the table. From her state-of-the-art studio to

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our shabby little BBC broom cupboard. Now she sees what it is

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really like on the licence fee. Christiane Amanpour joins us, and so

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does Simon Schama, who has a new book out, story of the Jews.

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Wellcome. Simon, let me start with you. The path that we are on now,

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the West, is it a sensible solution, or are we being put -- played like a

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fiddle by Moscow and Damascus? It is certain we are being played by a fit

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Ashgrove like a fiddle but there may be good music nonetheless. It

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depends on whether the United Nations Security Council can be made

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to be serious. It will be an epic conversion. If Vladimir Putin

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actually does, if having been in a position where he was protecting

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Assad and preventing him from being defeated, if he is actually prepared

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to clobber him, to do what is necessary to bring about a proper

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solution. I just want to say one little thing. If the United Nations

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is really going to do its job, it should begin with the chemical

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weapons issue, not end with it. Has President Obama been weakened? Many

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people are talking about precisely that. The people of the United

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States are behind his policy, and what he has done has caused a lot of

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thanks to, left, right, all around the world. If it works, and this

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chemical weapons arsenal is to stride, it could be a game changer.

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But, as Simon says, several thousand people have been killed by chemical

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weapons, these are weapons of mass destruction. But over 100,000 have

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been killed by Assad's conventional weapons, and they continue to be

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killed. This is the worst humanitarian crisis since the Second

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World War. There are 6 million refugees. The world food programme

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cannot feed people. The world is weary. You know what is really sad

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about this? Two and a half years ago ordinary people, men, women and

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children went out on the streets in Damascus and said, we just want some

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change, reform, freedom. What is wrong with that? Assad and his

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henchmen arrested these kids, pulled out their fingernails, tortured them

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to death and were then surprised there was an uprising against them.

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And by its continued inaction, the West has created a self-fulfilling

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prophecy. Everybody was so worried about what would happen if we

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prophecy. Everybody was so worried intervened, by leaving it like

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this, as President Clinton said two years ago, the longer you leave it,

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the more space to give the bad actors, and that has happened.

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President Obama was being urged by his aides and advisers in July 2012

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to start arming the rebels. Even this week, his two former defence

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ministers said they were absolutely stunned that he thought to go to

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Congress. They disagreed on whether he should intervene or not, but in

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any event, do not go to Congress. You are the President. You have set

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the red line. This is a violation of international law, a major

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geopolitical and strategic disaster for the US and its allies in the

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region. You need to take action. Now, where is the credibility of the

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United States. What did you make of David Cameron's haste to call-back

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Parliament and push for a quick involvement? At the time, I was not

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in favour of intervention by Britain or America. But at the time I did

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not realise what a foolish move it was by David Cameron. As it turned

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out, it was a catastrophe in the was by David Cameron. As it turned

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short term, inasmuch as he called a vote which he lost. The thing was

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badly handled. In the fullness of time, it also looked foolish

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because, as it turned out, the United States was not going to take

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action anyway. So it was not a well judged move at all. But as I said, I

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think David Cameron was saved from himself by the boat that happened in

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the House of Commons. The shadow of Iraq and Afghanistan hangs over

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public opinion, over Congress and the British Parliament, and you can

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understand that. But neither might be the right way to view future

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events. I agree. I was in the Cabinet that took the decision to go

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to war in Iraq, and we have to live with that. I agree with Michael on

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the Commons vote and where it left the Prime Minister. I agree with

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Christina and up to a point, but I do not think, the reason why Obama

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went to Capitol Hill and Cameron came to Parliament is that actually

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the public of both countries do not want us to rush in there. And they

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are right. Although this has been a catastrophe, this is a civil war.

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What does the public want instead? The public does not want to be

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bothered, particularly. The public feel they are all as bad as one

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another. I do not care how many Al-Qaeda fighters are doing ugly

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things, there is not a moral equivalence between the sides. The

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public wants it all to go away. This is a civil war between Shia and

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Sunni, Iran and Saudi, a proxy is a civil war between Shia and

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battle in there, with Assad hated by the people, but actually most of the

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Christians and other minorities who support Assad support him, although

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they hate him, because they fear genocide. Turning your back on the

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situation is not going to help that. I think there are two things.

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Firstly, it is a major geopolitical and strategic catastrophe. It is not

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just a bleeding heart situation. It is a big trouble for Britain,

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France, the United States, and for its allies and the stability of the

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region. No matter how much the US president says he wants to pivot to

:14:43.:14:46.

Asia, the Middle East is still a big deal. He has cast himself as the

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Pacific president. And he seems to want to do everything in his power

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not to be dragged back to the Middle East. That is true. He said

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specifically - listen to his body language - I was elected to end

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wars, not to start them. He had said Assad must go, and that there were

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red lines. When a superpower says that, they have to do something

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about it. It was a foolish thing to say. He has been hanging by it ever

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since. He never looked as though he had any convention. He was only

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doing it because he said it was a red line. Normally, when you get

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into these situations, you are very doubtful about where it will end. I

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have never been in a situation where we did not know how it would begin.

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The inconsistency of what Obama has been saying from day to day, one day

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saying he would fire a shot across the bow was, a shot that does not

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hit. The next day saying he would weaken the regime until the point

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where it turned the balance of the civil war. Meanwhile David Cameron,

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assuring the House of Commons and sounding like Tony Blair ten years

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ago, assuring the House of Commons this was nothing to do with regime

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change, not intervening in a civil war, only about chemical weapons.

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Secretary of State Kerry said any aattack would be "unbelievable

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small." People thought - what's the point? The point, there are several

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points. In 1998 Britain and America took part in what was called

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Operation Desert Fox against Iraq, Saddam Hussein when he was in power

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and when he did have chemical weapons. According to the

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inspectors, after that very limited attack, they said that that put paid

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to his ability to actually want to go-ahead with doing chemical

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weapons. We know that there were no chemical weapons because when people

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went in in 2003, there were no chemical weapons. Partly because of

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the limited targeted attacks, no boots on the ground, that Clinton

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and Blair and whoever else was in power in 98 took. Also, we have a

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and Blair and whoever else was in humanitarian imperative. We in the

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West, who believe in values in the moral and imperative, I covered

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Bosnia for years, nobody intervened, it was a genocide unfolding in our

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backyard. With no boots on the ground... We should have intervened

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there. With no boots on the ground you changed it. With Bosnia, we had

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a 78-day bombing campaign. Kosovo. No-one is talking about that in

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Syria? No boots on the ground, Kosovo free and independent. I agree

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with Michael you could possibly explain the incoherence about how it

:17:44.:17:47.

would begin and the unbelievable... It US m be the only, kind of,

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military statement where you reassure those on the end it isn't

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going to hurt one bit. What the hell reassure those on the end it isn't

:17:55.:18:01.

is the point! Failure of policy? With any luck we won't have to find

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out whether or not a targeted attack, say, on command and control

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of the air force. I these are horribly vague things that got us

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into trouble before. It seems not inconceivable that an intelligently

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limited carefully worked out strategy might have had the same

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effect that Desert Fox had. Obama is like Neville Chamberlain if you

:18:27.:18:31.

believe it's a horrific situation you need to sort out at the first

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whisper from Russia you ought to put it off for a year to have

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discussions. You back and wave a bit of paper saying it is all over you

:18:42.:18:47.

are in effect Neville Chamberlain. I don't believe of an intervention at

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all. If you settle for what Russia has given you, you are then Neville

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Chamberlain. They talked it up, the Holocaust was dragged in at one

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stage. The Battle of Britain was dragged in the President yet the

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response would be unbelievable small. I don't understand it. The

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default Hitler rhetoric. Margaret Thatcher did it. George Bush did it.

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Leave Hitler out of it. In a year's time will Syria have chemical

:19:21.:19:24.

weapons? It might have a bit. A few. They will probably have got rid of

:19:24.:19:28.

most of them. You think it would be successful? ? No, the killing will

:19:29.:19:32.

go on. The killing will certainly go on. That wasn't the question. The

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question was, will it still have chemical weapons? I really don't

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know. I really don't know. Yes. It will, won't it. Assad himself said

:19:41.:19:46.

it will have chemical weapons in a year. They will keep it going

:19:46.:19:50.

forever. That is correct. Thank you. That was great. So much better than

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what I'm used to! Now it may be late, but pour

:19:58.:20:01.

yourself another three fingers and get ready to stick it out like Miley

:20:01.:20:05.

Cyrus's tongue, it'll be worth it, because waiting in the wings,

:20:05.:20:08.

glamour model and bodybuilder Jodie Marsh is here to talk about why the

:20:08.:20:12.

face is a window into the soul. She's obviously never met George

:20:12.:20:18.

Osborne! And for those of you poised to

:20:18.:20:21.

register their offence at tonight's show, get ready to charge up your

:20:21.:20:25.

Amstrad, you never know one day it might work, and log onto the

:20:25.:20:28.

Twitter, the fleecebook and the good old interweb.

:20:28.:20:34.

We await your complaints with total indifference.

:20:34.:20:40.

The Lib Dems spent the past week basking in their own magnificence up

:20:40.:20:42.

in Glasgow, congratulating themselves on providing the moral

:20:42.:20:45.

sunlight around which we all now orbit.

:20:45.:20:53.

It's thought "cocky" Clegg had a pretty good conference, announcing a

:20:53.:20:56.

tax-payer funded school lunch subsidy of over a £400 a year for

:20:56.:21:00.

every infant child, even if mummy and daddy could afford a daily

:21:00.:21:02.

hamper from Harrods. No doubt they'll put it in the kitty

:21:02.:21:07.

to pay off the £9,000 a year tuition fees the little darlings face when

:21:07.:21:10.

they reach university, thanks to the very same Liberal Democrats.

:21:10.:21:13.

So with nothing much happening here in Westminster we asked Mary Ann

:21:13.:21:15.

Seighart for her conference round-up of the week.

:21:15.:21:27.

Hard work on the thigh. Yes. Dancing like politics is all about

:21:27.:21:38.

partnership. At the Lib Dem conference this week, the question

:21:38.:21:41.

was - who were they going to Tango with?

:21:41.:21:47.

No, not them. They are talking about those a little closer to home.

:21:47.:22:01.

Yes, d was Vince Cable flirting with Labour this week. If he shouted,

:22:01.:22:10.

"can you hear me Ed" at the end of his speech I wouldn't have

:22:10.:22:13.

surprised. He threatened not to support his own leader on the

:22:13.:22:19.

economy. Come on. Oh, no, this is tiring. Before you could say

:22:19.:22:24.

"collective responsibility" he backed off from treading on Nick

:22:24.:22:29.

Clegg's toes. Clegg was trying to persuade his party into coming into

:22:29.:22:36.

line over spend. We will go into the next election, we will go into the

:22:36.:22:41.

next election in favour of more fair taxes and not follow George

:22:41.:22:46.

Osborne's plan, such as it might be, to only make further savings out of

:22:46.:22:50.

spending cuts. We will not do that. That is not Liberal Democrat. It

:22:50.:22:55.

won't happen under my watch. Vince is a passionate ballroom dancer

:22:55.:23:00.

himself. Is he setting himself up for a celebrity come leading contest

:23:00.:23:05.

with all his Tory bashing The list of people the Tories disapprove of

:23:05.:23:11.

is even longer than that. Public sector workers, especially teachers,

:23:11.:23:15.

the unmarried, people who don't own property. I suspect that their core

:23:15.:23:21.

democratic excludes pretty much anybody who wouldn't have qualified

:23:21.:23:26.

for a vote before the 18 67 reformle act. That is not our kind of

:23:26.:23:35.

politics. It is ugly we will not be dragged down by it. The speech was

:23:35.:23:45.

aimed at lefties both inside his party and out. Most Lib Dem

:23:45.:23:49.

activists would much rather form a coalition with Labour after the next

:23:49.:23:53.

election. Their leader insists that is up to the voters. Could you, Nick

:23:53.:24:01.

Clegg, comfortably, after the next election say, bye-bye David Cameron,

:24:01.:24:04.

hello Ed, I will be your deputy now? I can tell you why I could, it isn't

:24:04.:24:11.

actually about my personal pre-renlss it isn't about whether

:24:11.:24:14.

this person likes that person or more, it's about following the

:24:14.:24:19.

infrastructureses the infrastructures manual handed to us.

:24:19.:24:24.

In the run-up to the last general election, I will always seek to do

:24:24.:24:29.

what the British people have said to us politicians they want us to do.

:24:29.:24:34.

The Lib Dems could easily partner up us politicians they want us to do.

:24:34.:24:39.

with Labour. In fact, they find it smoother than another two step with

:24:39.:24:43.

the Tories. Labour would love the mansion tax and their pro-EUstance.

:24:43.:24:50.

There is not that much to choose between them. Clegg was boasting

:24:50.:24:55.

about how much he had said no to the Tories. Would would he say no to

:24:55.:25:00.

Labour? Tax cuts for millionaires. No. Bringing back O-levels an a two

:25:00.:25:06.

tier education system, no. Profit making in state schools. That will

:25:06.:25:13.

be a no. New childcare ratios. No Firing workers at will without any

:25:13.:25:22.

reasons given. No! Broadly it has been a pretty good week for the Lib

:25:22.:25:26.

Dems. A tasty new free school meals polypropylene Sid. His party coming

:25:27.:25:30.

into line. The economic recovery has put a spring back in Clegg's step.

:25:30.:25:34.

If you are going to praise the merits of coalition, does it really

:25:34.:25:38.

make sense to keep boasting about how many times you tripped your

:25:38.:25:44.

partner up? I don't think so. Can't compete with that. The Dance Lab in

:25:44.:25:56.

put any. We are now joined by Miranda Green at our little dance

:25:56.:26:05.

lab here in Westminster. Gave us a quick pao doble. Right here, right

:26:05.:26:12.

now? What will he do to convince the voters? It was a very... It did have

:26:12.:26:22.

a very inward looking feel about it, the conference, you know, it was

:26:22.:26:27.

seen as a success. There weren't any great rebellions. People were, sort

:26:27.:26:31.

of, confirmed in their view that the party has grownup and is getting

:26:31.:26:37.

used to the idea of power. It was inward looking actually. Even the

:26:37.:26:42.

leader's speech was very much talking to the party and keeping

:26:42.:26:43.

leader's speech was very much them happy. I didn't understand

:26:43.:26:48.

that. He had won the faithful by then. They were on his side. They

:26:48.:26:52.

voted every way that he wanted them to. Surely he should have spoken out

:26:52.:26:54.

to the rest of us, the troops to. Surely he should have spoken out

:26:54.:26:58.

on side? It's an interesting point this. I mean, back in the 2010

:26:58.:27:04.

election, when the TV debates were such a success for him, it was this

:27:04.:27:08.

feeling he had got the attention of the country. I think the Lib Dems,

:27:08.:27:12.

you know, they are trying to talk about being newly self-confident,

:27:12.:27:17.

but what they have to do, they have to work out the next stage of

:27:17.:27:21.

talking confidently to the nation. There is a real danger of getting to

:27:21.:27:26.

a point where you put the defensiveness behind you. You put

:27:26.:27:30.

the disaster behind you. You have to lay out a positive platform in a

:27:30.:27:34.

confident way to the broadest audience. I'm not sure they quite

:27:34.:27:38.

got there yet. What would be a good result for the Lib Dems at the next

:27:38.:27:44.

election, the loss of 10 seats, 20 seats lost? They are very confident

:27:44.:27:48.

in a lot of current Lib Dem seats they can hold on there. They don't

:27:48.:27:52.

think they will gain any? No. They will definitely lose seats. There

:27:52.:27:56.

are other seats they have their eye on to gain. What would be a bad

:27:56.:28:00.

result? How many to lose and we say, that is a bad result? How many to

:28:00.:28:03.

lose and we say, not a bad result? that is a bad result? How many to

:28:03.:28:08.

Losing more than half would be pretty bad. Yes. That would be "c"

:28:08.:28:13.

Losing more than half would be for catastrophe. You have to have a

:28:13.:28:17.

respectable number to be in a hung parliament To make a difference to

:28:17.:28:21.

the vote. They will hold on to their seats where they are incumbent

:28:21.:28:24.

against Tories in contest with Labour I think they will lose. Yes.

:28:24.:28:31.

Far fewer seats. Left of the Lib Dem will go to Labour. He said he could

:28:31.:28:36.

work with Ed Miliband and Labour if there was a hung parliament. Could

:28:36.:28:42.

you see that? Can you see Ed and Nick getting together in the Rose

:28:42.:28:47.

Garden press conference? They did on media regulation, didn't they? And,

:28:47.:28:50.

I could. I don't know that it will be another Rose Garden. We don't

:28:50.:28:57.

want it to be. Count that out. I think they could. I mean, most

:28:57.:29:02.

Liberal Democrats don't actually agree with the right-wing agenda

:29:02.:29:05.

that this Government is following. They would be far happier with us.

:29:05.:29:10.

There is another thing, I think British politics is in the mode now

:29:10.:29:14.

where you are more likely to get hung parliament's than not. The

:29:14.:29:18.

Liberal Democrats national vote will fall, but they will hold on to quite

:29:18.:29:23.

a lot of their seats, UKIP will do well. The party, the electorate have

:29:23.:29:29.

given up on majority government from the two older parties, ourselves and

:29:29.:29:36.

the Tories. In that situation we are in for a period until that culture

:29:36.:29:39.

is broken. I don't see it being broken for a while. The implication

:29:39.:29:43.

for that is that Ed Miliband, although he will fight to win an

:29:43.:29:47.

overall majority, obviously, he should be behind closed doors

:29:47.:29:50.

preparing for a hung parliament in which he is the largest party We

:29:50.:29:54.

were badly prepared last time. The Conservatives and the Liberal

:29:54.:29:57.

Democrats were well-prepared. That lesson has to be learnt. You know, I

:29:57.:30:03.

think that... Lord Ashcroft had a poll today saying there are huge

:30:03.:30:07.

swings from the Tories to Labour in the marginal seats that could propel

:30:07.:30:11.

Ed Miliband into Number Ten. I think Ed is more likely to be Prime

:30:11.:30:14.

Minister than anybody else. Whether we can achieve a majority government

:30:14.:30:18.

is a different matter. The logic of Mr Clegg's position is that the Lib

:30:18.:30:22.

Dems would always be in power. He is hoping for a hung parliament and he

:30:22.:30:26.

will always hold the balance of power. Isn't it a long-term risk,

:30:26.:30:32.

even if you lose seats, he could be in power there is a danger of a

:30:32.:30:36.

backlash in the longer term for that. People won't understand, how

:30:36.:30:40.

come he did so badly and the Lib Dems are still in ministerial cars?

:30:40.:30:44.

I think the backlash is there in the sense that lots of people who voted

:30:44.:30:47.

Liberal Democrat on the strict understanding the party would never

:30:47.:30:50.

be on power. He had a problem with those people. They have now moved

:30:50.:30:54.

off. They don't like the reality of that. Vince Cable said that once,

:30:54.:30:59.

didn't he? He has done a good job Nick Clegg in convincing people this

:30:59.:31:03.

is a party that can hold power. Indeed, actually speaking they may

:31:03.:31:08.

have the best chance of the three parties of being in power. They may

:31:08.:31:12.

have a high higher certainty of being in power. Secondly, I want to

:31:12.:31:16.

go back to Syria on the Lib Dem point. Something that really

:31:16.:31:19.

instruct me about Syria was that the Government was defeated not because

:31:19.:31:22.

the coalition fell apart. The Lib Dems and the Tories stuck together

:31:23.:31:25.

the coalition fell apart. The Lib on Syria. The Lib Dems and the

:31:25.:31:29.

Tories have stuck together on austerity. The two most difficult

:31:29.:31:32.

things the coalition had to do, the two parties have been together. In

:31:32.:31:36.

terms of the leadership? Is Yes. That goes a long way down. Quite a

:31:36.:31:44.

few Lib Dems... J r Backbenchers a huge po portion of Conservative

:31:44.:31:48.

backbenchers revolted. Miranda and I have been talking over the weekses

:31:48.:31:52.

with about how there is a growing feeling among the Liberal Democrats

:31:52.:31:56.

and the Conservatives that a coalition between the two of them is

:31:56.:32:00.

a strong possibilities. I perfectly understand they can work with Ed

:32:00.:32:05.

Miliband, if that is what happens, Ed Miliband is not looking

:32:05.:32:09.

competent. He has not had a good summer. Someone like Danny

:32:09.:32:13.

Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, would he happily

:32:13.:32:18.

exchange Osborne and Kamran for Miliband and Balls. I absolutely

:32:18.:32:20.

exchange Osborne and Kamran for doubt it. Interesting.

:32:20.:32:34.

This was not Vince Cable's strongest hour. It is really crucial for the

:32:34.:32:44.

Lib Dems, having suffered the pain and the kicking of the first two and

:32:44.:32:47.

Lib Dems, having suffered the pain a half years of the coalition over

:32:47.:32:52.

austerity, now that the economy has started to turn the corner, it would

:32:52.:32:56.

be utter madness. That would be madness. Briefly, if it is not a

:32:56.:33:03.

hung parliament, if we are wrong, if either Tory or Labour form an

:33:03.:33:07.

overall majority and they are in power for five years, does Nick

:33:07.:33:11.

Clegg step down? It is interesting. One thing that did occur to me,

:33:12.:33:15.

watching the Lib Dems, that leaked briefing note saying they were in

:33:15.:33:23.

buoyant mood. They actually were. If they are not able to participate in

:33:23.:33:28.

government again it will be a big psychological blow. I do not think

:33:28.:33:32.

he would hang on. He would be gone. The Labour conference is coming up

:33:32.:33:37.

in Brighton. It is a grim run-up to the conference. In the Guardian we

:33:37.:33:40.

have e-mails being published about that Tony Blair- Gordon Brown

:33:40.:33:42.

battles of 2006. The Daily Mail has that Tony Blair- Gordon Brown

:33:42.:33:47.

brought forward its serialisation of Damien pride to be serialise to in

:33:47.:33:53.

the Daily Mail, which is quite devastating. Terrible polling for

:33:53.:33:58.

Labour at this stage in the political cycle, and the economy

:33:58.:34:02.

showing signs of life. You could call it a shambles. We have Damien

:34:02.:34:10.

McBride milking the moment for his book, getting a serialisation in a

:34:10.:34:17.

way that undermines the party. This is all about factional staffer years

:34:17.:34:21.

ago which Ed Miliband has turned his back on, and it is not there. --

:34:21.:34:30.

factional staff. But look at the factional things in his party over

:34:30.:34:35.

Maastricht. It continues to be a shadow over the Tories, poisoning

:34:35.:34:42.

the well, still. He has a mountain to climb, I would suggest, Mr

:34:42.:34:47.

Miliband. He needs to make a big speech. We need to get beyond a very

:34:47.:34:50.

poor summer, no question about that. For the leadership and for the

:34:50.:34:57.

party, generally. You have the Ashcroft marginal seats poll, and

:34:57.:35:00.

some polls are showing us six or seven points ahead. Not many. It is

:35:00.:35:09.

a volatile situation. I think it is fair to say that at the moment, and

:35:09.:35:13.

it has been through the summer and was not derailed by Syria, that the

:35:13.:35:19.

political weather is now with Mr Cameron and the Tories, but the

:35:19.:35:22.

electoral arithmetic is still with Mr Miliband. It is not with David

:35:22.:35:30.

Cameron because, as I have said countless times, he only got 37%

:35:30.:35:35.

last time, not enough to win, and the governing party never improves

:35:35.:35:36.

its share of the vote. Whether it is the governing party never improves

:35:36.:35:41.

with Mr Miliband, we still do not know. Labour got 31% last time, a

:35:41.:35:48.

very poor result. It was actually 29. For a party to put on five, six

:35:48.:35:55.

or seven points between one election and another is also pretty unusual.

:35:55.:36:00.

He only needs 35 for an overall majority. He needs much less than

:36:00.:36:06.

the Tories, but at the moment Ed Miliband is in what I call the

:36:06.:36:10.

leader of the opposition nosedive, which is set meal Kinnock, William

:36:10.:36:17.

Hague, Iain Duncan Smith. -- Neil Kinnock. We are running out of time

:36:17.:36:20.

but I get the point. Now, a political riddle for you.

:36:20.:36:23.

I've got just the one. Peter's got just the one. But if you've read

:36:23.:36:27.

John Major's memoirs, fat chance, it turns out Michael's actually got

:36:27.:36:30.

two. What am I talking about? That's right, faces. So, with this in mind,

:36:30.:36:34.

and after a week of argument over whether we should have the right to

:36:34.:36:36.

see them, we've decided to put faces whether we should have the right to

:36:36.:36:38.

in this week's Spotlight. Female celebrities faced their fear

:36:38.:36:55.

of being naked this week by appearing without make up for

:36:55.:37:01.

children in need, proving the human face takes many forms, all of them

:37:01.:37:05.

beautiful in their own unique way. 26 years since becoming the first

:37:05.:37:09.

black model on the cover of Vogue magazine, Naomi Campbell this week

:37:10.:37:14.

raised her own angry eyebrows and question the lack of faces of colour

:37:14.:37:18.

in the fashion industry. Meanwhile, the argument over the rights to

:37:18.:37:21.

cover your face reared its head again, causing controversy in

:37:21.:37:25.

cover your face reared its head schools, colleges, chords and

:37:26.:37:29.

hospitals, with politicians forced to lift the veil on their own

:37:29.:37:33.

feelings. I do not think government should tell women what they should

:37:34.:37:37.

be wearing. Women should make a choice about what they wish to wear.

:37:37.:37:43.

As a patient, I would want to be able to see the face of the doctor

:37:43.:37:46.

or nurse who was treating me, so I have sympathy for people who are

:37:46.:37:53.

worried about that. So just how important is your expression when it

:37:53.:37:57.

comes to expressing yourself, and is a first impression all it is cracked

:37:57.:38:02.

up to be, or do our faces sometimes mask our true feelings and sparkling

:38:02.:38:09.

personalities? Jodie Marsh is with us. Has anybody

:38:09.:38:14.

got the right to tell a woman what to wear or how they should look

:38:14.:38:19.

first remark no, I don't think so. In this day and age we should be

:38:19.:38:26.

allowed to wear whatever we like. Talking about the veil, I think

:38:26.:38:33.

there are separate issues at hand which are, I think, a matter of,

:38:33.:38:38.

say, security. Talking about the courtroom, if you are in court

:38:38.:38:42.

giving evidence I do not think you should be allowed to wear a veil, in

:38:42.:38:45.

the same way you would not be allowed to wear a balaclava or a

:38:45.:38:50.

helmet in court. So there are times when we need to see somebody's face?

:38:50.:38:56.

Absolutely. One, to gauge how genuine they are, whether they are

:38:56.:39:00.

telling the truth, what range of emotion they are displaying. And

:39:00.:39:06.

obviously for security purposes, in airports, maybe schools and

:39:06.:39:11.

colleges. Banks, places that are at risk of things happening. I think we

:39:11.:39:19.

do need to see people's faces. People are judged by their faces but

:39:19.:39:22.

I would suggest women probably judged more than men by their faces.

:39:22.:39:29.

Yes, I think so. I have been judged all my life by my face. I have been

:39:29.:39:34.

through every range of emotions on this possible. I am finally at the

:39:34.:39:41.

point where I do not care. I was bullied at school for being ugly and

:39:41.:39:44.

then made a career from modelling, in the beginning. I have made a

:39:44.:39:50.

living out of my face and body, but I have also been told I am hideously

:39:50.:39:54.

ugly by many people, and I am still told that by patrols on Twitter. You

:39:54.:40:00.

do not want to take any notice of them. I do not. Why are we unnerved

:40:01.:40:07.

by women covering their faces? I think we would be under I meant

:40:08.:40:11.

covering their faces, probably even more. -- probably be unnerved by men

:40:11.:40:18.

covering their faces, probably even covering their faces. Of course,

:40:18.:40:21.

people can do what they want in a private capacity but in a public

:40:21.:40:25.

role it is different. There are many examples where we tell people what

:40:25.:40:29.

they can wear. We all have to appear decently in public, for a start. But

:40:29.:40:35.

even beyond that, many employers require employees to be smartly

:40:35.:40:39.

turned out. They might require them to wear a suit or a uniform. There

:40:39.:40:43.

are no hard and fast rules. There are all sorts of cases where,

:40:43.:40:46.

although we have the right to wear what we like, when we are in some

:40:46.:40:50.

public capacity that is no longer the case. And I think the veil is

:40:50.:40:56.

just a subset of that. I agree with both points. But I think modern

:40:56.:41:01.

women, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever, having to cover

:41:02.:41:07.

their faces, for me it takes you back to a reactionary era, the

:41:07.:41:13.

Victorian era, when women had to be completely covered up in our own

:41:13.:41:16.

country. If you displayed your ankle, you were virtually lynched.

:41:16.:41:24.

That is where I come from. I feel uncomfortable about it in today's

:41:24.:41:29.

age. I have been to Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed to

:41:29.:41:34.

drive. I have been to offices, where there is a segregated office for the

:41:34.:41:36.

women compared with the men working on the same staff. I am

:41:36.:41:41.

uncomfortable with that but on the other hand I do not think it is for

:41:41.:41:43.

uncomfortable with that but on the government to say. Is it for

:41:43.:41:49.

government to say, if you are going into a bank, you take the veil off?

:41:49.:41:54.

That is for the banks to impose rules. I do not think government

:41:54.:41:59.

should lay that down. What about the NHS? Would you like to be looked

:41:59.:42:06.

after by a nurse with a veil? It depends what was going on. If it was

:42:06.:42:13.

a sensitive situation... I was interested in seeing earlier this

:42:13.:42:16.

evening two muslin doctors in a hospital in the Midlands saying, we

:42:16.:42:21.

take a face veil off when we are treating patients. -- Muslim. They

:42:21.:42:26.

also said, we do not know of any nurse, consultant or doctor in

:42:26.:42:30.

hospital who wears the veil. So it has got exaggerated. The answer is,

:42:30.:42:35.

I would prefer to be treated, if I was being prescribed a pill, it does

:42:35.:42:39.

not matter, but if I was having something being done to me, or being

:42:39.:42:45.

told something bad, yes. To my knowledge, I think there are

:42:45.:42:50.

something like 17 hospitals that have privately imposed a ban anyway

:42:50.:42:54.

on face veils, and have set that as a rule. Rather than government doing

:42:54.:43:01.

it. Very briefly, yourself excluded, do you think this would have been a

:43:01.:43:06.

better programme if we had won the veil? Absolutely! Only joking!

:43:06.:43:13.

Thanks for coming. That's your lot for tonight, folks.

:43:13.:43:16.

But not for us, because Peter's brought along his loyalty card to

:43:16.:43:20.

the Bronze Age, the most popular tanning salon on the Old Kent Road.

:43:20.:43:24.

So we're all off for a free top up. Well, if Obama can have his red

:43:24.:43:28.

lines, so can we! But we leave you tonight with a Lib Dem political

:43:28.:43:31.

martyr, whose sacrifice on the altar of political comedy we may never see

:43:31.:43:37.

the like of again. Nighty-night. Don't let Sarah Tether ankle-bite.

:43:37.:43:46.

I thought I would not keep you for too long tonight as I want to get

:43:46.:43:52.

back to my hotel room to watch strict glee. Do you watch it? Of

:43:52.:44:00.

course you do. -- strictly. The problem with this series is that

:44:00.:44:04.

Edwina Currie is not a patch on Vince Cable, is she? I think we need

:44:04.:44:10.

him back on. I heard they have got Peter Hain booked for the next

:44:10.:44:17.

series. He is doing the tango. Or has he been tangoed?

:44:17.:44:21.

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