27/02/2014 This Week


27/02/2014

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Tonight on This Week, join us for some political ghostbusting. As

:00:09.:00:21.

Prime Minister, David Cameron, takes his McCabinet to Scotland, will the

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fear of the unknown scare Scots into sticking with the u-ooo-nion?

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Musician and cultural commentator Pat Kane refuses to get spooked. As

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someone who passionately believes in Scottish independence, I extend an

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invitation to David Cameron to come up with after week after week.

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As German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, visits Britain, can David Cameron

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zap the get-out-of-Europe ghouls in his party? Who you gonna call? New

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Statesman political editor, Rafael Behr. David Cameron has summoned up

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the spirit of Angola Merkle, but even the iron Chancellor can't

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exercise the Demon of scepticism from the Conservative Party. --

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Angela Merkel. And as Olympic swimmer Rebecca

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Addlington reportedly has a nose job and singer Katy Perry is criticised

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for blasphemy, should we be so sensitive about other people's

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feelings? Joke-buster Stewart Lee crosses the comedy streams. A German

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Chancellor, English Prime Minister and Scottish firm Ashgrove First

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Minister walk into a bar, but in order to avoid hurting anyone's

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feelings, nothing happens. Don't mess with me, because I'm in

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charge of the marshmallow goo. Evening all. Welcome to This Week, a

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week when it was revealed that only five of the six menfolk involved in

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drawing up the next Tory election manifesto are Old Etonians! Now,

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this is nothing short of a national scandal at the very heart of

:02:15.:02:18.

government. For it turns out that the non-Etonian arriviste is a

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spotty chap by name of Boy George Osborne, who went to St Paul's. A

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day school boy! My God! You may as well re-christen it St Pleb's! It

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means not a single Old Harrovian could be found to do the job.

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Churchill must be turning in his grave. Not one Wykehamist. So who

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will check the spelling? Not even an Old Fettesian laddie, at a time when

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the union is in peril. No wonder Harrow, Winchester and Fettes are

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miffed. As I speak, Shami Chakrabarti is preparing a lawsuit

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on behalf of the privileged but excluded, whose minority rights have

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been so cruelly traduced. More power to your elbow, Shami. And what will

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it mean for the Tory manifesto? Well, I'm sure of one thing, it

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won't be comprehensive. Speaking of those who went to schools that were

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"approved" and couldn't tell their Wykehamist fallacy from the Eton

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Boating Song, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two men who everyone gets

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mixed-up. Think of them as the Liz Kendall and Rachel Reeves, or is it

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Rachel Reeves and Liz Kendall, of late night political chat. I speak,

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of course, of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson and #sadmanonatrain

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Michael "pretty boy" Portillo. Michael, the fallacy is in the

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diplomatic corps, when you treat everybody, otherworldly does, as if

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they had gone to Winchester and our civilised with good intentions,

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which is not true. What are the first lines of the old Newtonian

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boating Song? -- eat only in. Do you see what I have to work with?

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It is not easy. Your moment of the week. Home ownership figures in

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Britain have gone down to 65%, the lowest since 1987. I remember when

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promoting home ownership was an important part of the Conservative

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brand, for good reasons, because it was thought to promote social

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stability and a sense of self responsibility, and also it was

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meant to produce more Tories. There was a correlation between home

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ownership and voting Conservative which was quite high. It is

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spectacular that although we have had a largely Conservative

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government for nearly four years, promoting home ownership has hardly

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figured as one of its objectives. Indeed, you might say its policies

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have pushed in the opposite direction, because by pursuing low

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interest rates and stimulating the housing market they are making

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housing even more unaffordable for the vast mass of the population.

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Maybe they think everybody owns their own home anyway. That is the

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fallacy. He has finally woken up! I think the Thatcherite policy ought

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to be resumed. My moment was a politician talking on the radio this

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morning, William Gladstone, who spent 63 years in active politics,

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had his first ministerial post three years before Victoria came to the

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throne, was Prime Minister four times. And there he was on the radio

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this morning. Apparently there was a debate about whether he had a

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Liverpudlian Axum. They managed to find a recording of him taken in the

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early days of developing the gramophone. And there was Gladstone.

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I don't think anyone knew about it apart from the people in the

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Gladstone society. But listening to this great figure, this historical

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figure. He would not be mistaken for Jamie character. Who is that? Here's

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a footballer. Is that with the round ball? Never watch it.

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Now, spare a thought for the poor people of Aberdeen who were this

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week subjected to not one, but two rare political visitations, as both

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David Cameron and Alex Salmond took their respective cabinets to the

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granite city to talk independence and oil. Anyone would think there's

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some sort of vote happening north of the border this year. Today Standard

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Life, one of the UK's biggest pension providers, announced it may

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move operations outside Scotland in the event of independence. So where

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are we in the campaign for Scotland's future? And what will

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decide the outcome of September's referendum? We turned to

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pro-independence musician and writer Pat Kane. This is his take of the

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week. Watching David Cameron and his

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Westminster cabinet-maker fleeting trip to Aberdeen this week to snatch

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a photo opportunity on an oil rig seemed like the end of a regime, and

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I'll drink to that. They were like slightly dazed

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visiting dignitaries holding their elite meetings in luxury hotels. At

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the same time, down the road the Scottish Cabinet was doing a public

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queue and a in a church hall. Compere and contrast. I was

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fascinated by Cameron's image of the broad shoulders of the UK. What does

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he think Scotland is, a poor child standing behind the burly bulk of

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the UK as we face a harsh, demanding world? Look across the North Sea

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from Aberdeen and you come to a poor shivering nation called Norway. Same

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size as Scotland, discovered oil and gas at the same time as the UK in

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the early 1970s. But Norway built an enormous ?450 billion sovereign

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wealth fund, while through the same period the UK amassed what is now

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?1.2 trillion worth of debt. I think the Scots can do a better job with

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the next 40 years of oil and gas than that. All the experts agree,

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Scotland is rich enough and big enough to be a viable independent

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country. However the no side call themselves Project Fear. They try to

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sow seeds of doubt and insecurity about the future prospects of

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independence. So the real question to be answered this September in the

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polling booths is about confidence. Do we believe in our abilities to

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make our way in the world? Will we be able to deal with all the

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negotiations and challenges we will inevitably face. Come on, Scotland,

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what is it to be? Yes, or no? And from the Soho Whisky Club in

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central London to our own collection of wee drams here in the heart of

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Westminster, Pat Kane joins us now. You said it is a matter of

:09:34.:09:38.

confidence, but most up-to-date's Scots are supremely confident. Why

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do they need independence to make them any more confident? They don't,

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but to do independence and deal with things like the currency and the

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euro and NATO and being an independent nation in a complex

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world, I think we need patience and gripped. We have had the factual

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arguments, the policy arguments. We have almost reached a standstill on

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that. It gets to the point of, when you go into the booth on September

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the 18th, you have an existential choice. Are you a nation? Do you

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want to hold onto power, or do you want to let it go? I think it is a

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more profound question than necessarily one about policies,

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which is important. Scotland is a nation, no question about it. Not a

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nation state. You didn't say that. They could have the best of both

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worlds, being as Scottish as they want and yet having the security and

:10:37.:10:40.

scale of the British state. Why would you give that up? I think we

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have 80% of the welfare cuts still coming from the British state. We

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have Trident, which is about to be recommissioned, and obscene waste of

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money. And we have an EU referendum which is genuinely shared is a

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possibility by the Westminster parties. That is not a secure

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prospect. Only the Tories want a referendum. The others are toying

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with it. It is not necessarily a stable future for Scotland. It is

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secure compared to the risks you want Scots to take. You can't tell

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us what the currency would be, if EU membership would be assured, if some

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of the biggest employers would stay in Scotland. On currency, it is a

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pragmatic question. I think they are bluffing. Why? Because if you think

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what happens after independence, you have to figure how to have stable

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and balanced economic relations with England. If they are not bluffing,

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it is about sovereignty. You decide you are independent and then you

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figure it out. How? The Scottish Government was very adroit in

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setting up the fiscal commission with lots of Nobel Prize winners to

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set out the options. The second option is either a separate

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currency, which is balanced on a nation to other currencies, blah

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blah. It is a pragmatic question. Not the standard life which said in

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the absence of a monetary union, which all three parties say you

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would not get, they would move out of Scotland. I am amazed at the

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amount of people the establishment can mobilise. Standard life operate

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in about 20-25 currencies with just as many currency and tax regulations

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and out of all those countries, this is the one they will find most

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affable postindependence. It is ludicrous. I think if Scotland were

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different today from what it is, they ought to vote for independence.

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If this were the Scotland of some of the entrepreneurs of the past and

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the great economic thinkers of the past, that sort of Scotland ought to

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have confidence in the world. The Scotland today is a welfare

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Scotland. It is Scotland where vast numbers are housed by the state,

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employed by the state, sustained by the state. This idea that there will

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be some oil wealth fund created by the Scots when they become

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independent, if they do, is ludicrous. All of the plans that

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Scotland has executed over the past 40-50 years under Labour and the

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SNP, they are all about making more people dependent on the state. That

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is the culture and politics of Scotland. That is not the sort of

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nation that can set forth confidently into the world. We are

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in a situation where the UK Cabinet came up to Aberdeen to say, you are

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not capable of managing your oil. All that Scots had to do was look to

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Norway and a range of Scandinavian nations. One of the things that

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marks them is that they have strong labour participation in the

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workforce and management of companies which keeps up wages,

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keeps demand in the economy. There is a model that Scots can aspire to.

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You are the most socialist and welfare -based country in Europe.

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There is no one to touch it. At the top of that index of three out of

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four Scandinavian countries. It is a globalisation index which looks at

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well-being, prosperity, good governance. These are all "welfare"

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societies. We should keep Michael out of the Better Together campaign.

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Instead of trying to scare the Scots, shouldn't the campaign be

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making a positive case for the union? I think they are. We are out

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of it. We do not get a vote and do not see and feel a lot of what is

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going on. I read the speech by Alistair Darling last July and it

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was tremendous. It said that for 300 years, a separate Scottish Church,

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separate legal system, the Scottish Parliament, enhanced by a report a

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lot of people forgot about but was an important step forward, meaning

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it is the third most successful part of the UK after London and the

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south-east, economically. My roots are in a party formed in 1900 on the

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basis of a Scottish Parliament. It is life in the union, where we

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didn't have a division north and south of the border, in the Post

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Office where we were a national, UK-wide institution. To me, this

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argument from the left that it is better to go back away from a union

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that benefits the whole of the UK, Scotland being part of the UK

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benefiting all of the UK, to an argument that reminds me at times of

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the Euro-sceptic argument. Being part of the UK means being part

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of... Globally I think we have lots of power, lots of things to do in

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the wider world. Irene do want to address the fact that there will be

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thousands of children who will be affected by welfare cuts. There are

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thousands of Scots who are below the poverty line and will be

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disenfranchised. I want to address that and have an opportunity to do

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so. You have been part of what I'd call progressiveness in the United

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Kingdom. Why do you want to get out of it? I want Scotland to set an

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example. Every time someone comes up with what could be uncertainties, it

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gets shrugged off. You did it with Standard Life, George Osborne,

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Herman Van Rompuy, Standard Life, standards and pause, they are all

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bluffers and Belize? -- Lee -- bullies. They wanted to have a

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stable economic tax regime. If you do not go your own way, your

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government would have no ability to put liquidity into the financial

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system. It would not just be Standard Life, all the financial

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institutions would leave. A currency union requires a lot of things. One

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of the things it requires is trust and mutual respect. If that doesn't

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pertain and the parties do not negotiate something that works in a

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subtle structure in the way the Benelux structure is probably the

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best model, it requires agreement and belief on both sides. If that

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does not happen, yes, you would have to look at other options. Pit your

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own views aside and be an analyst, if the vote was tomorrow how do you

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think it would go? I think it would be a yes. I think it would be close.

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You think there is still some are meant to go? Yes. I think there is a

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very dramatic moment. It is about people deciding who they are as

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citizens and individuals. People will look in the mirror that morning

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and say, who am I? What will I do and how will I feel at one minute

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past ten on that Thursday night? It is a big question. Thank you for

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discussing it with us. Now it's late, and you're probably

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ready to flop like an Andrew Lloyd-Webber musical. But let's keep

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the show on the road just a little longer - because waiting in the

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wings, "King of the 100-liner", comedian Stewart Lee is here to

:19:09.:19:11.

discuss whether we're all getting a bit too sensitive - about

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everything. And just to prove even This Week presenters have feelings,

:19:16.:19:19.

please be nice to us on the Twitter, the Fleecebook and the Interweb.

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Now today, David Cameron launched a major diplomatic charm offensive to

:19:24.:19:25.

woo German Chancellor Angela Merkel, known in Foreign Office circles as a

:19:26.:19:29.

whopping big suck up. She got the chance to address Parliament and

:19:30.:19:33.

have tea with the Queen, all part of Dave's masterplan to get her to back

:19:34.:19:36.

his vision of EU reform. To which Frau Merkel said, "nein", but ever

:19:37.:19:47.

so politely. So to show Dave how you should wine and dine a German

:19:48.:19:50.

Chancellor, we sent the New Stateman's political editor Rafael

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Behr down to the Bavarian Beerhouse in London. Here's his round-up of

:19:54.:19:55.

the week. As you can see, we are clearing up

:19:56.:20:16.

after a very special guest we have had, the leader of a country that

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everyone knows is Britain's oldest friend and ally. It is a kind of

:20:22.:20:25.

special relationship. You know the country I mean, of course? It is

:20:26.:20:28.

Germany, who else? Downing Street extended a right

:20:29.:20:45.

royal welcome to Angela Merkel today. She addressed both houses of

:20:46.:20:49.

parliament. She had tea with the Queen who is kind of German, I

:20:50.:20:53.

suppose. Not every leader gets that welcome. When the French president

:20:54.:20:56.

was here last month, he was lucky to get half a pint of bitter and a

:20:57.:21:01.

packet of cheese and onion crisps. It is clear that diplomatically

:21:02.:21:08.

speaking, Dave is on the pull. So I have heard that some expect my

:21:09.:21:11.

speech to pave the way for a fundamental reform of the European

:21:12.:21:15.

architecture, which will satisfy all kinds of alleged or actual British

:21:16.:21:20.

wishes. I am afraid they are in for a disappointment. The PM needs

:21:21.:21:26.

Merkel's help to renegotiate his plan for Britain's membership of the

:21:27.:21:31.

European Union. She wants to help because ultimately she wants Britain

:21:32.:21:35.

to stay in the club. And don't tell the Conservative Party, so does

:21:36.:21:39.

Cameron. But if he does not rewrite the rules, he will be in trouble

:21:40.:21:43.

with his party. He will be, what is the word, kaput. Angela and I both

:21:44.:21:57.

want to sea change in Europe. I want to build confidence in our

:21:58.:22:02.

membership of this organisation. The gap between what his Eurosceptic

:22:03.:22:07.

backbenchers are demanding and what he is offering is as wide as ever.

:22:08.:22:12.

What we have seen in the remarks of Chancellor Angela Merkel are very

:22:13.:22:16.

warm words but they will be cold comfort to the a Prime Minister.

:22:17.:22:24.

Old adverse threes setting aside national differences, coming

:22:25.:22:30.

together with a shared economic interest, it sounds a bit like

:22:31.:22:34.

England and Scotland. Days before Merkel flew here to support Britain

:22:35.:22:39.

in Europe, Cameron flew the cabinet up to Aberdeen to bolster a

:22:40.:22:44.

different kind of union. His argument is that together the United

:22:45.:22:47.

Kingdom will be much better than an independent Scotland at investing in

:22:48.:22:52.

and making the most of North Sea oil. People I think in the end will

:22:53.:22:59.

vote on the arc immense and issues, not on personalities. There is a

:23:00.:23:04.

difference between jetting into Scotland and jetting out again and

:23:05.:23:08.

having a real debate about the future of the country. Just another

:23:09.:23:14.

case of the old colonial power throwing its weight around say

:23:15.:23:17.

Scottish Nationalists. Actually, that is more Vladimir's style. The

:23:18.:23:22.

Russian president does not like the way Viktor Yanukovych was ousted as

:23:23.:23:27.

Ukraine's president. It is too much like the Cold War. William Hague

:23:28.:23:31.

said Britain should not be choosing sides. Good luck with that. We

:23:32.:23:36.

believe that closer economic links between Ukraine and the UK can be

:23:37.:23:41.

beneficial to that entire region, including Russia. We are not

:23:42.:23:45.

presenting it as a strategic competition between East and West. I

:23:46.:23:48.

think that would be a mistake to do so.

:23:49.:24:03.

Sometimes come history will not stay in the past, as Harriet Harman found

:24:04.:24:09.

out when the Daily Mail went gunning for her over links between the Civil

:24:10.:24:13.

Liberties Organisation she had worked for 30 years ago and a nasty

:24:14.:24:18.

outfit called the Paedophile Information Exchange. It is not the

:24:19.:24:23.

case that my work was influenced by the Paedophile Information Exchange,

:24:24.:24:28.

was apologising for paedophilia or colluding with paedophilia. That is

:24:29.:24:31.

an unfair influence and it is a smear. Ed Miliband would say total

:24:32.:24:38.

war with the Daily Mail goes down well with voters but the reality of

:24:39.:24:44.

having your party name and paedophilia in the same headline is

:24:45.:24:45.

not a good look. In the end, there was only so much

:24:46.:25:02.

help Merkel could give Cameron. UFO bit Tories and Europhile Germans

:25:03.:25:07.

will not see I tried but who knows, maybe there is the potential for a

:25:08.:25:11.

new special relationship closer to home. The Eleanor I agree with what

:25:12.:25:15.

he said about the importance of climate change. It is obvious the

:25:16.:25:20.

new approach to Prime Minister's Questions, you come to the House of

:25:21.:25:24.

Commons and praise the Prime Minister for his commitment to

:25:25.:25:27.

Climate Change Act. I like the new style! A consensus between red and

:25:28.:25:34.

blue on all things green? It is how they do it in Germany. Frau Merkel

:25:35.:25:40.

would approve. Now we have waved goodbye to the iron Chancellor,

:25:41.:25:43.

there is one German lady you can always rely on.

:25:44.:25:53.

He knows a good drink when he sees one! Miranda, welcome, good to see

:25:54.:25:59.

you back again. We are not any the wiser about how Mrs Merkel will

:26:00.:26:06.

respond to David Cameron except he would not get everything he wants.

:26:07.:26:10.

There was never any doubt about that. I do not think she has in mind

:26:11.:26:14.

any number of concessions whatsoever. I do not think the Prime

:26:15.:26:17.

Minister knows what concessions he would ask for either. The connection

:26:18.:26:22.

we had with the previous discussion about Scottish independence is if we

:26:23.:26:26.

did get to a referendum, David Cameron's government would use the

:26:27.:26:32.

same tactics they are using in the Scottish referendum, they would try

:26:33.:26:36.

to scare people rigid about the consequences of leaving the European

:26:37.:26:41.

Union. To that extent I have some sympathy with Pat in the previous

:26:42.:26:45.

discussion. It is a bit dangerous, is it not, for a British Prime

:26:46.:26:48.

Minister to put nearly all their faith, he has got the Dutch Prime

:26:49.:26:52.

Minister as an ally as well, but nearly all thy faith in the German

:26:53.:26:58.

Chancellor? Particularly German Chancellor who is in with the social

:26:59.:27:04.

Democrats? Absolutely, it is mad. If you are going to negotiate your way

:27:05.:27:08.

out of this, you do not throw yourself on the mercy of Merkel, I

:27:09.:27:12.

did this as a favour. If you did this where I come from, no matter

:27:13.:27:16.

how well you get on with the person on the other side of the table,

:27:17.:27:20.

you're showing a huge weakness. Merkel knows that even if she did

:27:21.:27:24.

concede something and she will not concede anything this side of the

:27:25.:27:28.

general election, but even if she did, she knows the British scene

:27:29.:27:32.

well enough to know that none of that might count for anything. If

:27:33.:27:36.

she was going to concede something big hit Britain in the European

:27:37.:27:41.

Union, she sees what is going on on the Tory backbenches and she knows

:27:42.:27:44.

it is just one concession after another and she is giving it away to

:27:45.:27:48.

find that Britain still goes down the same route anyway. That was the

:27:49.:27:53.

nonsense of starting with a pledge to a referendum when he should start

:27:54.:28:00.

with proper negotiators straightaway. Mrs Merkel will still

:28:01.:28:06.

be there in 2017. Mr Cameron might not be so why go out on a limb?

:28:07.:28:11.

Absolutely. Asking the whole of Europe to cater to add to show

:28:12.:28:18.

election timetable is also bananas. President Hollande has made it clear

:28:19.:28:22.

he will not do that. We are going to see European elections in May from

:28:23.:28:27.

the mainstream right to the very hard right are going to do really

:28:28.:28:30.

well and some of the very hard left will do as -- do well. This whole

:28:31.:28:43.

question of David Cameron's allies elsewhere and where are they, does

:28:44.:28:47.

he have remotely enough of them to try and push forward the reforms

:28:48.:28:52.

they are looking for, he started off with this disastrous decision to

:28:53.:28:57.

pull the Conservative Party out of the moderate centre-right grouping

:28:58.:29:05.

in Strasbourg... Which Mrs Merkel as part of. Exactly, he lost all those

:29:06.:29:10.

allies as the way to buy off the right wing of his own party. Molly

:29:11.:29:16.

is French and she does not think Mr Cameron will get his way on this so

:29:17.:29:21.

I think we will move on. Thereby hangs a tale! How serious is it that

:29:22.:29:28.

Labour and the Tories are hinting that they would rather be in a

:29:29.:29:31.

minority government than being coalition again with the Lib Dems.

:29:32.:29:37.

Good luck with that, I would say. Trying to make a minority government

:29:38.:29:44.

work... They would assume that the Nationalists and the Ulster MPs and

:29:45.:29:51.

others would all gang up on them at once. I was waiting for this moment

:29:52.:29:59.

actually, for pressure in both large parties to rule out future pacts.

:30:00.:30:03.

Number one, it is up to the electorate, number two, you cannot

:30:04.:30:11.

buck the electoral market. We are in a situation where, the days of large

:30:12.:30:15.

majorities for either big party do seem to be over. Apart from anything

:30:16.:30:26.

else, it seems absolutely extraordinary that David Cameron

:30:27.:30:29.

would want to rule out the coalition. Firstly, you want to be

:30:30.:30:34.

in office. Secondly, surely at some point he has to defend what the

:30:35.:30:37.

coalition has done and he has to say, this has been a good

:30:38.:30:41.

unsuccessful government which took care of the economic crisis, and on

:30:42.:30:45.

top of that did it useful reforms in health, welfare, and we have all of

:30:46.:30:52.

these achievements to talk about. If you say, the last thing I will do is

:30:53.:30:57.

be in a coalition again, it implies a terrible government. If we had an

:30:58.:31:03.

alternative vote system... Our problem at the moment is that you

:31:04.:31:07.

have coalition politics with first past the post. He cannot say, vote

:31:08.:31:13.

Tory first, Lib Dems second. He cannot go to the electorate may

:31:14.:31:17.

coalition under first past the post. It would be madness to rule out

:31:18.:31:22.

coalition, and madness to go into a general election saying you did not

:31:23.:31:28.

want an overall majority. I am Ed Miliband and it is the day after the

:31:29.:31:33.

election, I am ten votes shy of an overall majority, ten seats shy of

:31:34.:31:41.

an overall majority in the Commons, and there are 30 Lib Dems still in

:31:42.:31:46.

the Commons so I could go into government with them and get a small

:31:47.:31:51.

overall majority. There are also 20 or 30 MPs from smaller parties. What

:31:52.:31:58.

would you advise? This is Wilson in 74. It would depend on whether there

:31:59.:32:02.

is a feeling the public would take a second election. If you went alone,

:32:03.:32:08.

that is the risk you would run. Did Scotland vote for independence in

:32:09.:32:13.

this scenario? If Scotland votes for independence there would have to be

:32:14.:32:18.

another election anyway. You keep options open. It would be madness to

:32:19.:32:22.

listen to Len McCluskey and rule out the coalition. I may well advise him

:32:23.:32:29.

to go for the coalition. It would depend on the circumstances. You

:32:30.:32:33.

cannot assume the Lib Dems would agree to confidence and supply. You

:32:34.:32:42.

do not have too agreed to that. With 30 MPs, they would not be looking

:32:43.:32:47.

forward to a second election. I want to ask about this Harriet Harman

:32:48.:32:52.

business and the Daily Mail. Why did she not simply do what Patricia

:32:53.:32:57.

Hewitt has done to Mike and say, as general secretary them I take

:32:58.:33:01.

responsibility for mistakes. I got it wrong on PIE. I apologise. If she

:33:02.:33:07.

had said something similar, end of. Number one, she wasn't the general

:33:08.:33:14.

secretary. Shami Chakrabarti as the current general secretary and

:33:15.:33:16.

Patricia Hewitt as the previous general secretary, quite right for

:33:17.:33:21.

them to say that. This was about smearing Harriet Harman. Come on!

:33:22.:33:27.

This has been around for the last eight years. If you think back to

:33:28.:33:31.

the 1970s, this vile organisation... There is a leading

:33:32.:33:39.

article in a newspaper that -- there is not a leading article that has

:33:40.:33:45.

not said she got it wrong. If she apologised, it would have been,

:33:46.:33:50.

Harriet Harman admits, as if she had some ties with the organisation. She

:33:51.:33:56.

is still in that position, because Patricia Hewitt has apologised so

:33:57.:33:59.

the pressure is on Harriet Harman and it will go on for days. Do you

:34:00.:34:05.

think it is because, people like Harriet Harman, the Labour Party,

:34:06.:34:08.

they hate the Daily Mail. Ed Miliband hates it, too and we know

:34:09.:34:13.

what it did about his father. Do you think her judgement was skewed

:34:14.:34:17.

because she was up against the Daily Mail? I can't help but think there

:34:18.:34:21.

is a bunker mentality when it comes to issues to do with the Mail. This

:34:22.:34:26.

is their payback for the fact that Ed Miliband gained public support

:34:27.:34:29.

over their attack on his father, right. But the reason people throw

:34:30.:34:36.

mud is because it sticks, unfortunately. So it's very, very

:34:37.:34:41.

damaging. It would still stick if she had apologised. The interview

:34:42.:34:51.

she gave was such a disaster. They had their annual meeting at Oxford

:34:52.:34:56.

University. The police didn't move against them. Patricia Hewitt has

:34:57.:34:58.

apologised because there is some thing to apologise for what did the

:34:59.:35:04.

Daily Mail say about PIE in the 70s? I have to apologise because we

:35:05.:35:12.

have run out of time. Now, in its defence, the Daily Mail

:35:13.:35:16.

claimed this week that "it is a newspaper's job is to ask awkward

:35:17.:35:18.

questions". And the Mail certainly does ask the questions that matter.

:35:19.:35:22.

Such as, why did Harriet Harman not take action against the Paedophile

:35:23.:35:24.

Information Exchange, does Harriet Harman cause cancer, why is Harriet

:35:25.:35:27.

Harman encouraging Romanian gypsies to park their caravans in Hyde Park,

:35:28.:35:31.

and why does she not apologise for being the main cause of global

:35:32.:35:40.

warming? Because she is, you know, I read it in the Mail. The Mail

:35:41.:35:43.

certainly likes to consider itself attuned to the sensitivities of

:35:44.:35:46.

Middle England. But are we all getting way too sensitive about

:35:47.:35:49.

everything? We decided it was time to put "sensitivites" in this week's

:35:50.:35:51.

Spotlight? People have been voting for UKIP

:35:52.:36:10.

macro as a protest vote, and they are mastering they might get in.

:36:11.:36:15.

What kind of protest is that? It is like defecating in your hotel bed as

:36:16.:36:20.

a protest against hotel service and then realising you have to sit on it

:36:21.:36:33.

-- sleep in it. Jokes can hurt, of course. Just ask Olympic swimmer

:36:34.:36:38.

Rebecca Adlington, who suffered jibes about her appearance and has

:36:39.:36:42.

reportedly taken action and had a nose job. But are we now so

:36:43.:36:46.

sensitive we can't even listen to opinions we don't like. Poor old

:36:47.:36:51.

Piers Morgan has had his poorly performance show cancelled amid

:36:52.:36:55.

claims that Americans don't like being lectured to by slimy English

:36:56.:37:00.

men who don't understand their indigent is gun culture. And what

:37:01.:37:06.

about religious sensitivities? In Katy Perry's new video, this man was

:37:07.:37:11.

wearing an Islamic pendant, until the image was proclaimed blasphemous

:37:12.:37:16.

and edited to avoid offending Moslems. She is a regular Salman

:37:17.:37:22.

Rushdie. Whether it is humour, politics, religion, are we getting

:37:23.:37:28.

too touchy? Should sensitivities always be listened to and pandered

:37:29.:37:32.

to, or do we need to grow a thicker skin?

:37:33.:37:40.

Spitting image. It would be great to have it now. I used to write on

:37:41.:37:45.

that. The first time you had me on we were talking about that and I

:37:46.:37:49.

said, I used to write on it. Kenneth Clarke looked terrified. He used to

:37:50.:38:00.

be a slug on it. When you write comedy, do you ever have the back of

:38:01.:38:05.

your mind people's sensitivities? Absolutely, all the time. That pops

:38:06.:38:12.

out as a funny one-liner but it is contextualised in the show. I think

:38:13.:38:18.

about the media that is going on as well. The stuff that I do live and

:38:19.:38:23.

put out on DVD, which goes out on cable channels, which I would not do

:38:24.:38:28.

on the BBC because it is responded to differently by the press

:38:29.:38:32.

depending on which broadcaster puts it out. I think about it all the

:38:33.:38:38.

time really carefully. In the scale of sensitivity, do you expect

:38:39.:38:42.

politicians to have a thicker skin than others? Are you prepared to be

:38:43.:38:45.

more rude about politicians than, say, sports stars? I don't really

:38:46.:38:53.

like sports stars either. With politicians, I'm getting to the

:38:54.:38:57.

point where they start to be in the audience, which is strange, all

:38:58.:39:01.

people who work for them and know them. Then you feel crestfallen,

:39:02.:39:05.

because you are not attacking an abstract idea, but a person. Rebecca

:39:06.:39:11.

Adlington, there were some terrible things on Twitter. That of the

:39:12.:39:16.

public, though. As a result of that, would you be more sensitive

:39:17.:39:21.

towards her? If it wasn't that she had been in the news, I wouldn't

:39:22.:39:25.

even know who she was. I'm not interested in sport. Also, I don't

:39:26.:39:30.

tend to do stuff about people's appearance, or people that have any

:39:31.:39:36.

responsibility for anything. She is not responsible for anything, not in

:39:37.:39:39.

a position of power. It is not anything to do with me. What about

:39:40.:39:45.

journalists. You would be sensitive about Piers Morgan. I have done

:39:46.:39:52.

stuff about some journalists, about opinion columnists and stuff like

:39:53.:39:55.

that. But they do it about other people, so it opens up the field.

:39:56.:40:01.

You do think about consequences. One of the problems with the BBC is that

:40:02.:40:04.

you have to think carefully that so many people have a political or

:40:05.:40:08.

commercial opposition to it that they are keen to take what you have

:40:09.:40:12.

said out of context, call you a BBC man and say, why are we paying the

:40:13.:40:17.

license fee for this? The same thing on a cable channel owned by sky will

:40:18.:40:22.

never get picked up. You have the joke about my daughter. I understand

:40:23.:40:26.

the BBC is moving your programme so it does not clash. -- you had the

:40:27.:40:41.

joke about Nigel Farage. We had flagged it. I understand the

:40:42.:40:52.

sensitivity about it. I can see why it is an issue. Have we become too

:40:53.:40:59.

sensitive? Probably. We are also a bit too ready to insult people. You

:41:00.:41:04.

know how it is that no one would be rude to you on the street but in a

:41:05.:41:08.

car they start yelling obscenities because they are behind glass, well

:41:09.:41:11.

it is like that when you become a journalist. When you are writing,

:41:12.:41:16.

you feel free to say whatever you like about people. I think we ought

:41:17.:41:22.

to be careful about that. I used to write a column of theatre criticism

:41:23.:41:25.

and I once wrote something about actor, a lady actor, and she wrote

:41:26.:41:33.

to me. I felt so badly about what I'd written. I was just a journalist

:41:34.:41:39.

trying to fill up my column. You have to put something in. You're not

:41:40.:41:44.

always that careful about what you say, whether you have researched it,

:41:45.:41:50.

or whether it is true. There are responsibilities. I never

:41:51.:41:52.

anticipated being in situations where I would meet people I had done

:41:53.:41:57.

anything about. I never go to showbiz things, awards or anything,

:41:58.:42:01.

but I now consciously avoid them because I don't want my perception

:42:02.:42:04.

of a person to be altered by having met them. Ten years ago I had a

:42:05.:42:10.

funny routine about you. I would now feel compromised about doing it. You

:42:11.:42:22.

never know what's coming next? Your art is changed. Satirists,

:42:23.:42:25.

comedians, when they become celebrities you are compromised

:42:26.:42:29.

because you drift into that world. A lot of the best people have a degree

:42:30.:42:33.

of anonymity. Chris Morris, you will never see him at anything. He does

:42:34.:42:38.

not become friends with the people. Have we become too sensitive? I

:42:39.:42:44.

don't think so. I remember a show in Birmingham in the 1970s, and the way

:42:45.:42:50.

that the comedian picked out a black man in the audience, and it was just

:42:51.:42:58.

Krul. It was the start of the kind of feeling that this is totally

:42:59.:43:02.

unacceptable. Thank God we became a bit more sensitive. My question is,

:43:03.:43:08.

what has happened to satire? Spitting image finished in 1996. I

:43:09.:43:14.

grew up on that was the week that was and all of that. Rory Bremner is

:43:15.:43:23.

not there. Mike Yarwood. What is perhaps a perceived failure of

:43:24.:43:26.

comedians to do satire goes hand-in-hand with how politics has

:43:27.:43:29.

got better at managing personalities. If you look at people

:43:30.:43:38.

from that era, they were much more obviously able to be caricatured.

:43:39.:43:46.

What about Jeremy Hunt, for example? I read a sketch about him yesterday.

:43:47.:43:52.

But there isn't an obvious physical way into it. That aspect of it is

:43:53.:44:00.

micromanaged. Where should we June in to be offended? Saturday at 10pm,

:44:01.:44:06.

unless you live in Wales, where it could be at any random point.

:44:07.:44:10.

That's your lot for tonight, folks. But not for us because we've got

:44:11.:44:14.

tickets to Piers Morgan's welcome home party at Lou Lou's, and as you

:44:15.:44:18.

can imagine, it's not exactly a sell out. But we leave you tonight with

:44:19.:44:22.

an exclusive glimpse of the Department for Work and Pensions

:44:23.:44:24.

universal credit IT system, still, according to IDS, on budget and on

:44:25.:44:31.

track. Nighty-night. Don't let the inevitable IT failure bite.

:44:32.:44:35.

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