Browse content similar to 25/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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# What's new, pussycat? . # | :00:11. | :00:22. | |
I'll tell you what's new pussycat - This Week is back, to make you purr | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
with pleasure, just like her Majesty after David Cameron told her the | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
Not much purring in Westminster though, as MPs are re-called to | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
Parliament to authorise air strikes against the Islamic State in Iraq. | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
Anti-war campaigner George Galloway thinks Cameron, | :00:36. | :00:36. | |
Miliband and Clegg are putting the cat among the Middle East pigeons. | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
It's going to be the mother of all cat fights in Parliament tomorrow | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
over war with Iraq, and this the cat is well and truly involved. | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
Labour leader, Ed Miliband, faced some catty remarks, after | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
his final conference speech before next year's general election. | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
Commentator Andrew Rawnsley is gathering reaction from random | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
Ed Miliband began what he called his eight-month job interview with the | :00:59. | :01:11. | |
British people, but unfortunately he forgot to bring along the crucial | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
part, his CV. And sticking to the script, why | :01:14. | :01:20. | |
did Ed Miliband forget his lines? Comedian Stephen K Amos, | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
will be trying to forget why he's I am so very delighted to be here on | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
this week. Michael, | :01:27. | :01:53. | |
what's the name of this show? We're back, | :01:54. | :01:59. | |
squatting like a political bullfrog in the One Show studio, | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
whilst they fumigate our old one. And back in the nick of time, | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
because it's been Who can forget the speech given | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
by the Labour leader, Ed... Who can forget how he dealt with | :02:08. | :02:16. | |
the growing number of thingamabobs arriving in Britain, | :02:17. | :02:26. | |
and detailed his plans for the Last year, he used his conference | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
speech to announce an agenda-setting freeze on energy prices that shook | :02:29. | :02:38. | |
up Westminster, and made This year, Ed chose to announce that | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
he'd met a man called Gareth on Hampstead Heath, | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
who worked for a software company. And people say he doesn't | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
know what he's doing. Speaking of things you'd rather | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
forget, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two people | :02:54. | :02:54. | |
who bend in the middle if you put Think of them as the iPhone 6 | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
and iPhone 6 Plus I speak, of course, of #iffysmiffy, | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
Jacqui "how much" Smith. And #sadmanonatrain, Michael " | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
train tracks of my tears" Portillo. Your moment of the week, Michael. It | :03:10. | :03:24. | |
has been a momentous week, difficult to choose. I will go to David | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
Cameron's statement in Downing Street on Friday following the | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
Scottish referendum result. It was one of those examples of how David | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
Cameron sometimes thinks very fast, the other example being the day he | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
committed to the coalition with the Liberal Democrats. It did change the | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
political weather and has changed the nature of the general election. | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
It will result in a change in the nature of the United Kingdom, | :03:49. | :03:50. | |
possibly almost as large as the change that would have happened if | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
there had been Scottish independence. English votes for | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
English laws. Exactly. That has set the cat amongst the pigeons and none | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
of us knows where it will end up, but it will certainly mean a lot of | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
change. Jacqui, your moment. As one of the several Home Secretaries who | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
tried to get Abu Qatada deported to Jordan, my moment is this week when | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
a court decided there was insufficient evidence to find him | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
guilty of the offences they were trying him for. Quite rightly, | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
Theresa May has a ready been very clear that he will not be returning | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
to the UK, because after all, this was a man described by British | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
courts as extremely dangerous. He provided spiritual suck or two | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
terrorism. So you do not want him back. I certainly do not. You said | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
he would not get a fair trial and it looks as though he has. Frustrating | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
in one way that he has not been found guilty, but his allegation was | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
that he could not get a fair trial and actually, I think Jordan has | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
shown they are perfectly capable of doing that. He is not appealing | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
against the decision? Not this time. The Cabinet discussed plans | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
for air strikes in Iraq today. Parliament will vote | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
on them tomorrow. No, this isn't | :05:09. | :05:09. | |
a This Week repeat from 2003. Britain is once again on the | :05:10. | :05:11. | |
brink of military action in Iraq. Speaking at the UN today, | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
the Prime Minister - David Cameron, that is, not Tony Blair - | :05:15. | :05:21. | |
said "past mistakes" must not be But have we learnt anything | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
from past mistakes, We turned to anti-war | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
MP George Galloway. It is Groundhog Day. 11 years ago, | :05:29. | :06:02. | |
here on the streets of Westminster, millions of us marched against the | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
impending US - UK invasion of Iraq. And tomorrow, in Parliament, we | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
might just be about to do it all again. It doesn't seem to matter to | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
some. 1 million people lost their lives, Iraq was ruined and the | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
principal beneficiary of the Bush-Blair war on Iraq was Al-Qaeda | :06:26. | :06:35. | |
and people like them. This is not about me supporting ISIS. I would be | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
happy if every member of ISIS was lying dead here in this street. It | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
is about how we achieve the defeat of ISIS, not whether they need to be | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
defeated. These sectarian, head chopping, heart beating maniacs have | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
to be defeated, and the one sure way that you will not achieve it is | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
British and American and French bombers and cruise missiles raining | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
down on yet another Arab Muslim country. Not only can many not see | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
the history of the last 11 years, many in this country appear to have | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
forgotten our history, perfidious Albion in the Arab Middle East, over | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
the last century. We need to be strengthening those who are already | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
fighting ISIS, ISIL, Al-Qaeda, call them what you will. We need to | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
strengthen the Kurdish Peshmerga, the governments of Iraq and Syria, | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
and we need to find common ground with Russia, China and Iran. From | :07:38. | :07:46. | |
Lawrence of Arabia to David Cameron, not much difference, really, at | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
least viewed from the Arab street. From their point of view, Britain | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
equals treachery, invasion and occupation. That is why tomorrow in | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
Parliament I will be voting against war in Iraq. Again. | :07:59. | :08:06. | |
And from the back streets of Westminster to | :08:07. | :08:08. | |
our own little back street here in the heart of central London, | :08:09. | :08:10. | |
Does it make no difference that this time Iraq has asked for help from | :08:11. | :08:22. | |
the US, its Arab allies and so on? It does make a difference. It makes | :08:23. | :08:35. | |
it legal, where the bombing in Syria right now is illegal. But it doesn't | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
change the other issues I raised. It is indiscriminate. You cannot | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
believe anyone who tells you about precision targeting, bombing, | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
weapons and so on. It will kill a lot of civilians, women and | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
children. And when they are dragged out of the rubble, it will do the | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
third thing, it will be counter-productive. It will | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
strengthen the fanatics and strengthen their appeal across the | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
1.7 billion Sunni Muslims in the world, including those here. What do | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
you say to that? The first thing is that even without us having taken | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
action, it is clear that those within ISIS are already committing | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
barbaric acts. So I don't necessarily believe that it is a | :09:23. | :09:24. | |
grievance that causes that to happen. It is an Islamist ideology | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
which causes that to happen and needs to be addressed. But our | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
barbaric acts, as they will present them, will replace the barbaric acts | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
that they are carrying out, I think that is his point. I disagree. Point | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
I do agree with is that this needs to be something where those in the | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
region are engaged. They are clearly engaged in the military action. They | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
are asking, in the case of Iraq, for our support with air strikes. I have | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
worked with Iraqi parliamentarians, I have worked in Jordan and other | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
parts of that area, and it strikes me that it is not contradictory to | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
want to both support the development of democratic government and to | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
support with military force where necessary and where asked, in order | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
to defeat something which is putting those fledgling governments at | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
significant risk. Let me put a point to Michael. We are late to the | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
theatre on this. Our military contribution will be insignificant, | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
the Arab allies are more important and we are half-hearted about it. | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
Why are we bothering? Let me go back to what George said. I think one | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
must not speak with any jingoism about this and quite a lot of | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
humility. I accept what George says, that we are in the position we are | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
in in Iraq partly because we went to war in 2003. But I think, although | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
George is right to claim some expertise in the subject and write | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
to imply a lack of expertise in London about the Middle East, there | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
is expertise in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq and the UAE, and | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
Bahrain, all of whom, I think, are involved in this operation. That, I | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
find persuasive. Those countries, surely, can make the George argument | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
if they care to, but they do not. They make an opposite argument, | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
saying they want our help now. They do indeed intend to fight this enemy | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
on the ground, they are fighting the enemy on the ground but they want us | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
to help from the air. All of those countries you mention are, of | :11:32. | :11:33. | |
course, dictatorships, to whom freedom and liberty is an alien | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
concept. Jordan is not a dictatorship. Jordan is a royal, | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
absolute monarchy dictatorship. I am sorry, you have not spent enough | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
time there. The dictatorships that Michael mentioned are not speaking | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
for their people. Much of the support for ISIL comes from | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
countries like Saudi Arabia, much of the money in the beginning. And | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
these countries that you mention, several of them, are up to their | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
neck in the blood in the region in the first place. Thirdly, I am not | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
sure they are involved. I haven't seen any pictures of any Saudi | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
aircraft bombing Syria or Iraq. I haven't seen their livery anywhere. | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
They are on the paper, on the masthead, but I don't think they are | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
a significant military part. I do not think they would even claim to | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
be. But Saudi Arabia has 700 warplanes. 700. We should know, we | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
sold them that many. You probably sold them many of them. Why can't | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
they do this job? That is a good question. Turkey is a NATO member | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
with a powerful army. Iran has a powerful army. If they were really | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
committed, they would not need us. They have the hardware. They have | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
the hardware but it is useless unless you know how to use it and | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
that is partly about pilot training. Saudi pilots are trained in the UK. | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
It is partly about intelligence. I do not know their capability and am | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
in no position to assess that, but I do think anyone would claim they | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
have the expertise the Americans have, or reason the British. I come | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
back to the point I made to Michael, why are we bothering? Our military | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
contribution is insignificant. They do not need us. We are making it | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
more, dictated by saying we will do Iraq but not Syria. There is some | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
symbolism for the Americans. The French are there already. Why do | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
need need to be there? For principled and pragmatic reasons. | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
The principle being, I am an internationalist and I believe when | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
people call for your assistance in fighting the barbarism we are seeing | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
from ISIL, you should come to their assistance to help them. | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
Pragmatically, there is some evidence that those who have been | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
radicalised and in fact who have carried out hideous acts in Iraq and | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
Syria, were they to return to the UK, were they to want to plot | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
against the UK, they would be a threat to our national interest. Are | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
they less likely to do so if we bomb them? These people were encouraged | :14:15. | :14:21. | |
to go and fight in Syria by Western policy right at the beginning of | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
this conflict. It was an insane policy, as I tried to point out at | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
the time. All these people would be all dressed up with nowhere to go | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
except back home, with all the skills, terrorist skills that they | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
acquired in that conflict. The problem for both Michael and Jacqui | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
is that the public have heard all this before. These were the reasons | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
we were told we should invade and occupy Iraq in the first place, and | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
it didn't work then. Why should we believe it will work now? Terrorism | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
Act flourished, cascaded everywhere in the world as a result of the | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
first Iraq war, the second, as it happened. Dame Manningham Buller | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
warned us in advance of the war that it would be the case. She was the | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
head of MI5. She said the risk of terrorism in Britain would be | :15:12. | :15:13. | |
greater if we invade and attack Iraq. | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
We are not to blame for violent Islamism. 9/11 happened before we | :15:18. | :15:25. | |
went into Afghanistan. I think that try to somehow suggest, I was glad | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
to see your condemnation in the film but what you now appear to be doing | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
is shifting responsibility for barb rim, that is the responsibility of | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
Isil somehow on to us. This is not about us... George leaves out sense | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
of urgency. Isil has made tremendous advances, taking over much of Syria | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
an Iraq. The Iraqi government is alarmed about that. The other powers | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
in the region, are, to say the least of it, alarmed about that. This is | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
not just about considering whether or not a bit of bombing is going to | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
make them pore likely to attack us or make them more militant. It is | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
also about to arrest a deteriorating situation. | :16:12. | :16:19. | |
Let me pick up on that. In New York, thetimes, they pointed out after six | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
weeks of American air rads in Iraq, not Syria, Isil or ISIS, has not | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
given up a single bit of ground. They are still there. Indeed, | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
yesterday they took over an Iraqi Army camp, to miles from Baghdad. So | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
what is the air power going to do? Well, air power can kill a lot of | :16:42. | :16:48. | |
people and destroy equipment. It can destroy command centres. It must be | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
accompanied by an operation on the ground. George is right, that | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
operation should be conducted by the local powers. | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
The Saudis and the UAE will not commit troops? No, they are not. | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
They want to us do it for them. Even though they are in part responsible | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
for this problem. But I am in no doubt at all about your | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
responsibility in this, and 2 million of us on the streets of | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
London told you so at the time, Jacqui Smith. For you now to wash | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
your hands of your share of the responsibility, I'm afraid that is a | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
spot that will not wash out. Awful the perfumes of aArabia, will not | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
ex-pong. And your poetry, George, does not | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
prevent people from being murdered and massacred in Iraq and Syria. You | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
killed 1 million people in Iraq. You killed 1 million people in Iraq. It | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
is incredible you have the brass neck to be sitting here now urging | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
another Iraq war. George, if I were in Parliament, I | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
would be there tomorrow living up to my responsibility to answer the call | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
of the Iraqi government and people to help to support them. The fact | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
you are not is something that you will have to live with. | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
A final question, George. If not bombing, if not intervention, how do | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
we deal with this cancer? Give Iraq the weapons it has paid for but have | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
not been delivered. Strengthen the Peshmerga. Strengthen the | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
governments of Iraq and Syria and ask Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Iran to | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
fight this battle. It is their battle, not ours. | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
It is late. Alex Salmond's dream of an independent Scotland late. But | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
don't activate the Babestation subscription yet, because winning in | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
the wings, Stephen K Amos is here to talk about the politics of sticking | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
to the script. And now that we are back on air, let the miss isry, the | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
ignorance and the sheer bile begin on the Twitter, the Fleecebook but | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
no more the interweb, "no", Gordon Brown has decreed it must be | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
henceforth called the Web Sphere? I kid you not. Just Google his speech | :19:10. | :19:15. | |
in Dunfermline last Saturday. No sooner was the Scottish referendum | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
over, the Labour Party Conference started with a bang in Manchester, | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
or more like a pop, a fizzle. There was Ed Miliband's party | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
tricks, that went well. He spoke of all of the interesting people he met | :19:30. | :19:36. | |
when he roamed of the Westminster bubble, as far as Hampstead Heath. | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
Interestingly, all of the people he met, spoke Milibandese. He spoke | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
about the ruin that is Britain today. Nobody mentioned the, | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
immigration or welfare. That explains why he forgot to mention | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
them. Any way, here is the Observer's Andrew Rawnsley out for a | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
bit of a stroll in the foot steps of Ed. | :20:00. | :20:09. | |
MUSIC: Parklife. | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
The other day I was in the park, this young guy called Ed came over. | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
He said he was on his way to a job interview. He was worried he would | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
not get it. Well, I said, your task at your | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
conference is to convince people that you are up to being the Prime | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
Minister and to get them excited about the idea of a Labour Party | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
Government. It wouldn't be a bad idea to look at how Tony Blair | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
pulled it off. In his last conference speech, before he won a | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
landslide in 1997. Labour has come home to you, so come | :20:44. | :20:54. | |
home to us. Labour's coming home! Oh, no, said Ed, just because Tony | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
Blair won three elections in a row, why should I want to copy him? My | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
speech is about chance conversations with random people I have bumped | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
into on Hampstead Heath. We have to understand what people | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
are saying to us across the United Kingdom. I think across the country, | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
there are a silent majority who wanted our country to endure but are | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
telling us things must change. They come from every walk of life. Like a | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
young woman who works in a pub near where I live... Yeah, because you | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
are just an ordinary bloke who likes a pint. Are you sure about this, Ed? | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
Quoting encounterparters with voters is a device overused by politicians. | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
You will be mocked by it, especially if you only meet people who agree | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
with you. Like Gareth, high up in a software | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
company. With a five-year-old daughter, earning a decent wage, he | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
cannot afford to by himself a home for himself and family. Priced out | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
by the rich. Hi, guise, any of you met a | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
politician in this park? No. Look, Ed, this speech must be special. | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
Your conference is fighting for attention amidst the fallout from | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
the Scottish referendum and military action against Isil. People will | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
want to hear something authoritative. | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
I met somebody called Elizabeth the other day, where is she? She is | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
here. Elizabeth, why not stand up for a second. Elizabeth is an | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
apprentice... Ed, I hear you are planning to make the speech without | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
an autocue. Frankly, that worries me it is risky at such a crucial event. | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
Would it not look more prime material to be at a lecturn. Then | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
watch out for ambitious colleagues, keen to show that they can arouse | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
the activists by telling them what they want it hear. | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
With will free the NHS from Cameron's market and repeal his | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
toxic health and social care act if it is the first thing that we do. | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
Ed shook his head, don't worry, he said. He was the man with the plan. | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
A ten-year plan. And he was good at remembering stuff. | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
Earlier, I mention the Gareth who works at a software company. Worried | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
about his daughter and the future. I met his colleagues as well... OK, | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
Ed, between talking about Gareth's life story, people will expect to | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
hear how you deal with the deficit. I mentioned earlier on I spent a | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
couple of days at a hospital in Watford. I met an amazing man called | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
Colin. I will always remember my conversations with him. | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
You and he agreed that the NHS is great and you need more money. The | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
deficit, Ed, you have to talk about it. | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
The next Labour Party will get the deficit down. | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
Look, it will be odd if you don't say something about the deficit. The | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
Tories and their newspapers will lacerate if you don't. Promise, you | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
will not forget... Together. The deficit, Ed, the deficit? | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
Together... The deficit, Ed, you promised you would not forget! | :24:27. | :24:34. | |
Together, we can! You know, I was in the park the other day and this guy | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
came over, his name was voter. Andrew, he said, I never believe a | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
word they say at their party conferences. Funny isn't it, how our | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
politicians never seem to meet anyone like that. | :24:50. | :24:59. | |
Andrew Rawnsley, cruising the Heath! I'll just let that sink in. Miranda | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
is back with Damian McBride. Welcome to the programme. How do you sum up | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
Ed's week? Not the best. He has had better. He is coming to the | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
conference under more pressure before and delivered a better | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
performance. Maybe a bit of complacency this time. | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
He set the weather with the price freeze and people remember the | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
predator/producer speech. He had a record of doing it. | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
He has done it in that way and done it well. But if you are going to do | :25:31. | :25:35. | |
it, you cannot afford to make mistakes. | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
Was it third time lucky? We are seven months between the election, | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
to give up the party trick, look Prime Ministerial? I think in | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
retrospect he should have done that. He was like a groom at the wedding | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
forgetting to mention the mother of the bride. | :25:56. | :25:57. | |
That bad. It was a catastrophe. | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
Not the ideal preelection conference? No. I agree with Damian. | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
There were many lining up, ready to have a go. | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
It would have been better had he not handed out the sticks for people to | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
beat him with. But given he was outlining a plan, with I think was a | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
good plan it would have been legitimate to talk from a script. | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
But the important thing, dare I say it, that will remain after we forget | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
about that is what he was talking about. I think that there will be | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
many who will go away from the conference, wishing that the speech | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
had gone better but know that there is lots to talk about on the | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
doorstep. The minimum, the NHS, young people getting apresencises. | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
But it was a speech designed ah to the core vote. Not designed to the | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
wider electorate? He has decided on a strategy. That was a speech that | :26:58. | :27:02. | |
delivered on that strategy. The party faithful love the bits | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
about the NHS. But did it go beyond that? Does Labour feel like a party | :27:07. | :27:14. | |
on the brink of power? I do believe that Labour will win next May. | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
Does it feel like a party on the brink of power? Yes, I think that | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
they will win. It did not feel like it then. | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
I was in the party conference in '92. That was full of buzz. | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
I was at 91, that was full of buzz. '96 was full of buzz. | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
That's what I mean. But then we failed. Perhaps people from feeling | :27:39. | :27:45. | |
a bit tired from coming back from Scotland and two, not necessarily | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
feeling taken for granted. No many of them had been to | :27:52. | :28:00. | |
Scotland! Dugs are Labour rates so highly on the NHS issue. They have, | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
the NHS is really important. They get the NHS vote. Where they don't | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
get the vote is on the economy, where they rate badly. Would it is | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
made more sense to try to bolster the credentials on the economy? Yes, | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
and that is what Ed Balls was trying to do. He made a tough speech in | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
which he talked about the deficit being brought down. There is a | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
trick. The deficit that the Labour talks about is different from the | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
one that the coalition talks about. But we have forgotten Saturday, | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
Sunday, Monday. That was dominated by Labour's failure to reply to the | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
Conservative challenge of English votes for English laws. I think that | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
unnerved the Labour Party. They did not have a good answer. It got them | :28:49. | :28:56. | |
off ah to a bad start. And it is important to remember that nobody | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
outside of the hall has seen that speech. All that people are left | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
with is the impression of what the newspapers carried on the speech. I | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
was amazed with the Today programme. I heard something that I don't | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
normally hear from the BBC, that they were saying that all newspapers | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
condemn the Labour Conference as a catastrophe. They are normally | :29:20. | :29:25. | |
even-handed. I have never heard that. | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
Are we making a fuss of it? I am not a fan of set pieces. As Michael | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
says, the great British public will see a clip and make their mind up. | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
But it was not just the manner of the speech, that was wrong with it. | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
I think that the substance was a disaster as well. Not just the | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
forgetting the deficit, forgetting to mention immigration, a big issue | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
for Labour as they are under threat from UKIP in certain seats. But the | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
ten-year plan was in an awful way, both underambitious and uninspiring | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
and just not credible. Every young person that does not go | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
to university will have an apprenticeship. Every government | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
trying to revolutionise vocational training and solve the skills | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
problems and does not manage to do it, so I think that the matter of | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
substance, the policies were wrong. The NHS is hugely important. It is | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
under trouble at the moment. Labour thinks of itself as the guardian of | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
the NHS. But is it right to put the NHS at | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
the centre of the election strategy? Labour have had a lead on the NHS | :30:35. | :30:48. | |
but no dividing line from the Tories. They have established a | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
difference on spending now. That is 2.5 billion that the Tories will not | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
commit to because they are not prepared to introduce a mansion tax | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
rate tax on hedge funds is. But I think the public knows a bit about | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
the extent of National Health Service problems and quite a lot | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
about the deficit. And I don't think they will think that a little bit of | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
money raised from people with expensive houses will solve the | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
problem. I really think Miliband is overestimated the gullibility of the | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
public on that. But people do care about the NHS. Is he being badly | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
advised? I don't think so. Coming into a harsh winter, any people will | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
think that 2.5 billion will make a big difference to the NHS. They are | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
narrowing down to the core vote. That is where the strategy is. This | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
probably reflects the difference between 91 and 96. This party knows | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
it will be in a fight, in the same way as in Scotland. It will be tooth | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
and nail right to the end, and that is where the Labour Party is at the | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
moment. Just to draw back and look down on this, the parties are | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
scoring something like 30% each, Conservative and Labour. In each | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
case, that is the most miserable score. This is a deplorable state of | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
affairs for either party. The idea that the two leading parties have | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
60% of the vote between them is really depressing. But if it was so | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
that they both got 30% at the next election, Labour would win and would | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
be the next government. Our democracy is in a very poor state | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
when a party that gets 30% will form the government. And when you think | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
the turnout will probably be 60%, so 30% of 60%, quite a small fraction | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
would elect the next government. Not quite as depressing as being a Lib | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
Dem leader, Miranda. Well, we shall see. The Greens are doing | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
interesting things and may cause the Lib Dems problems in some seats. It | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
ought to be good news, this historic opportunity to be a permanent | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
kingmaker when the larger parties can't ever get a stonking majority | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
again. It should be a fantastic opportunity but I think the Lib Dems | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
are so battle scarred by the coalition experience that they are | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
struggling to find their way through the next few months. Labour, as a | :33:19. | :33:27. | |
party, is popular. Labour rates much better than Mr Miliband. The problem | :33:28. | :33:34. | |
is his personal ratings. So if you paint a picture of Britain as grim | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
and miserable as he did in his speech, which means it needs | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
incredible change and huge leadership, why would you turn to Mr | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
Miliband? I think you might turn to the policies. You are right that the | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
party, and presumably the policies that the party is beginning to | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
articulate more clearly, is winning, albeit not an enormous | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
amount of support, but more support than the party it will be up against | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
in the general election. Therefore, if you are going to be six at four | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
in that very tight election, you are going to need to focus on the things | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
that British people will listen to you about. That is the reason for | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
the NHS and for some policies I think will be popular, like the | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
minimum wage and apprenticeships. The Labour Party has just had the | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
most... I know the referendum in Scotland was won by the no vote but | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
it was traumatic for the Labour Party, watching all these people who | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
had always voted Labour going and voting yes. Labour must be deeply | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
worried about its heartland, and not only in Scotland, actually, because | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
Ed Miliband is not a character who appeals to basic caller Labour | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
voters. Unless you are on Hampstead Heath. Can he still win? Yes, but I | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
think, for the reason Michael says, there needs to be a broader team | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
representing labour. Get Andy Burnham and Ed Balls campaigning in | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
the North. Play your star players where they can have the most impact. | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
Is he right to stick with the core strategy? Yes, but also making sure | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
the defecting Lib Dems stay in the red column. We will see what | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
happens. Thank you, both. Because the speech he forgot to | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
give had some brilliant lines. "We shall fight them on the beaches | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
of the bathing ponds on "Ask not what your country can do | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
for Gareth, who I met on Hampstead Heath of a night, ask what | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
Gareth can do for your country". And, "I have a dream, | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
that I met someone called Elizabeth So, Elizabeth is an | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
auto-electrician apprentice. Nope, I've no idea what | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
that means either. But let's have a round | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
of applause for her and So that's why we've decided to put | :35:52. | :35:53. | |
sticking to the script Remembering your lines can be | :35:54. | :36:17. | |
tough. Stubborn little things can slip your mind, like Britain's | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
budget deficit or its increasing level of immigration. Going off | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
script is one thing but is there any excuse for Ed Miliband forgetting to | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
mention them in his party conference speech? Barack Obama did not muddle | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
his words at the UN. Calling for action against IS, he stuck to a | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
preprepared script, relying, as he always does, on the fake spontaneity | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
a teleprompter provides. The cat did not have David Cameron's tongue this | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
week. He posted that he had tickled the Queen's time when he told her | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
the Scottish referendum result. He has gone back to following the | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
script now and will make a grovelling apology the next time he | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
sees her. Unlike a report on the local Alaskan news, who is not | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
apologising for anything. She tore up the script this week and revealed | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
her support for the legalisation of marijuana live on-air, leaving a | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
trail of smoke behind her. And as for this job, well, not that I have | :37:23. | :37:32. | |
a choice, but I quit. And while we apologise for that... | :37:33. | :37:41. | |
That is how we often feel on this programme. We are joined by Stephen | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
K Amos. Welcome. When you up, do you follow a script do you improvise on | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
the way? I have a script in my head. I know the show, because I try it | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
out for a long time, six or seven weeks before I do the show. But I | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
also leave enough time to be able to be in the moment and react to what | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
is happening. If you have a prepared spine and you leave it, it can be | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
tricky to find your way back. Yes, but that is why many stand-ups have | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
little tricks. For example lots of stand-ups right bullet points on | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
their hand. That is what I would have suggested to Ed Miliband. He | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
should have been forthright enough to have bullet points. Or like me | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
today, have bits of paper and you can have a look down. All like an | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
actor, have a prompter in the wings reminding you to carry on. It is a | :38:36. | :38:42. | |
lot of effort to memorise something for 80 minutes. It is a lot of | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
effort but many stand-ups do a chauffeur to ours. The problem was | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
that he has this thing, this massive deal, this conference to deliver and | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
not long enough to run it in. And he is only doing it once, whereas you | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
get to memorise yours over time. Yes, and find out the nuances, the | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
way to say things and which part of the script the audience will go for. | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
Also, it is about my voice. I have a very commanding sort of voice. The | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
problem with Ed Miliband, what he probably saw last week was Gordon | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
Brown doing his powerful, passionate speech with no notes and he thought, | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
I will do a bit of that. Didn't really work. When you add lib, it | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
can also be when you are at your most powerful, most convincing. But | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
that is for professionals. When Ed Miliband tried to do that by | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
mentioning Elizabeth, Gareth or whatever, it just became the butt of | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
a joke. Yes, because you have to also be there the moment to share | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
the experience. If I randomly talk about somebody we have two imagine, | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
that is a bit creepy. Would he have been better advised, he has done the | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
trick before and we know he can memorise a speech, would he not have | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
been better seven months before the election, for a man whose personal | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
rating is not great, to say, you need to look Prime Minister real, | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
behind Alex turn, looking straight down the camera lens and delivering | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
a message. Possibly, but he was trying to show us and the delegates | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
that he could stand there and deliver something with passion, | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
energy off the top of his head. It didn't quite work. For me, he should | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
maybe have had an autocue, bullet points to remind him. I thought he | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
was getting quite a few applause breaks, so maybe he was saving that | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
bit for the end. He got massive applause on the NHS part when he got | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
there. I think you are not quite right. Politicians speak on the | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
stump all the time. They are always creating little capsules of speech | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
in their mind. When it comes to a conference speech, they are putting | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
together a little capsules they have again. So it is not such an effort | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
to learn and 80 minute speech because there are lots of little | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
bits that you have delivered 100 times before. The second thing is | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
that it does give you a tremendous freedom. And if you are really good | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
at it you can expand upon a point, or you can drop a point if you think | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
it is not going down very well. The converse situation, that great | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
professional, Tony Blair, when he talked to the Women's Institute and | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
they started to hiss, and you could see him looking through. He had | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
another ten pages to read and no way of dumping the ten pages. The big | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
mistake that Ed Miliband made was to go and do something which was, as it | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
were, off-the-cuff, without a script, and then release the script. | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
Then, you are in trouble. It was when he released the script that we | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
realised he had missed out important things like the deficit, the economy | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
and immigration. What would you have advised? At this point, given that | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
he was talking about a plan, I would have advised him to do it with a | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
script and a podium. But going back to what Michael said, what he | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
thought he was trying to do, with some justification, was to not be a | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
traditional politician delivering a set piece speech, but to say, I know | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
what is happening to people. Here are some examples of people whose | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
situation I understand. I am not just delivering a speech, I am | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
talking to you. That would have worked well had it actually been | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
what he was doing, but the publication of the script | :42:41. | :42:42. | |
demonstrated that it was not. You have to do one or the other. 80 | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
minutes was too long. Michael, I disagree. If I saw a politician | :42:49. | :42:55. | |
regurgitating the bits I had seen him do before, that would not | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
encourage me. If I saw you speaking from your heart and passionately | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
about stuff you believe in, I might take you seriously. What are you | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
doing? We go on tour from next week, all over the UK. It is called | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
welcome to my world, and it is scripted. | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
But not for us and not for Ed Miliband, who really should get | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
some shut-eye and stop thinking about what might've been. | :43:22. | :43:23. | |
Because according to the Labour leader, | :43:24. | :43:24. | |
"David Cameron doesn't lie awake at night thinking about Gareth". | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
At least, we think that's what he said. | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
# Memories, like the corners of my mind | :43:31. | :44:01. | |
# Misty water coloured memories # Of the way we were. | :44:02. | :44:05. |