25/09/2014 This Week


25/09/2014

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# What's new, pussycat? . #

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I'll tell you what's new pussycat - This Week is back, to make you purr

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with pleasure, just like her Majesty after David Cameron told her the

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Not much purring in Westminster though, as MPs are re-called to

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Parliament to authorise air strikes against the Islamic State in Iraq.

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Anti-war campaigner George Galloway thinks Cameron,

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Miliband and Clegg are putting the cat among the Middle East pigeons.

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It's going to be the mother of all cat fights in Parliament tomorrow

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over war with Iraq, and this the cat is well and truly involved.

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Labour leader, Ed Miliband, faced some catty remarks, after

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his final conference speech before next year's general election.

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Commentator Andrew Rawnsley is gathering reaction from random

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Ed Miliband began what he called his eight-month job interview with the

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British people, but unfortunately he forgot to bring along the crucial

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part, his CV. And sticking to the script, why

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did Ed Miliband forget his lines? Comedian Stephen K Amos,

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will be trying to forget why he's I am so very delighted to be here on

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this week. Michael,

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what's the name of this show? We're back,

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squatting like a political bullfrog in the One Show studio,

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whilst they fumigate our old one. And back in the nick of time,

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because it's been Who can forget the speech given

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by the Labour leader, Ed... Who can forget how he dealt with

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the growing number of thingamabobs arriving in Britain,

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and detailed his plans for the Last year, he used his conference

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speech to announce an agenda-setting freeze on energy prices that shook

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up Westminster, and made This year, Ed chose to announce that

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he'd met a man called Gareth on Hampstead Heath,

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who worked for a software company. And people say he doesn't

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know what he's doing. Speaking of things you'd rather

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forget, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two people

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who bend in the middle if you put Think of them as the iPhone 6

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and iPhone 6 Plus I speak, of course, of #iffysmiffy,

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Jacqui "how much" Smith. And #sadmanonatrain, Michael "

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train tracks of my tears" Portillo. Your moment of the week, Michael. It

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has been a momentous week, difficult to choose. I will go to David

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Cameron's statement in Downing Street on Friday following the

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Scottish referendum result. It was one of those examples of how David

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Cameron sometimes thinks very fast, the other example being the day he

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committed to the coalition with the Liberal Democrats. It did change the

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political weather and has changed the nature of the general election.

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It will result in a change in the nature of the United Kingdom,

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possibly almost as large as the change that would have happened if

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there had been Scottish independence. English votes for

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English laws. Exactly. That has set the cat amongst the pigeons and none

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of us knows where it will end up, but it will certainly mean a lot of

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change. Jacqui, your moment. As one of the several Home Secretaries who

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tried to get Abu Qatada deported to Jordan, my moment is this week when

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a court decided there was insufficient evidence to find him

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guilty of the offences they were trying him for. Quite rightly,

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Theresa May has a ready been very clear that he will not be returning

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to the UK, because after all, this was a man described by British

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courts as extremely dangerous. He provided spiritual suck or two

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terrorism. So you do not want him back. I certainly do not. You said

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he would not get a fair trial and it looks as though he has. Frustrating

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in one way that he has not been found guilty, but his allegation was

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that he could not get a fair trial and actually, I think Jordan has

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shown they are perfectly capable of doing that. He is not appealing

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against the decision? Not this time. The Cabinet discussed plans

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for air strikes in Iraq today. Parliament will vote

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on them tomorrow. No, this isn't

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a This Week repeat from 2003. Britain is once again on the

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brink of military action in Iraq. Speaking at the UN today,

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the Prime Minister - David Cameron, that is, not Tony Blair -

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said "past mistakes" must not be But have we learnt anything

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from past mistakes, We turned to anti-war

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MP George Galloway. It is Groundhog Day. 11 years ago,

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here on the streets of Westminster, millions of us marched against the

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impending US - UK invasion of Iraq. And tomorrow, in Parliament, we

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might just be about to do it all again. It doesn't seem to matter to

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some. 1 million people lost their lives, Iraq was ruined and the

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principal beneficiary of the Bush-Blair war on Iraq was Al-Qaeda

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and people like them. This is not about me supporting ISIS. I would be

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happy if every member of ISIS was lying dead here in this street. It

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is about how we achieve the defeat of ISIS, not whether they need to be

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defeated. These sectarian, head chopping, heart beating maniacs have

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to be defeated, and the one sure way that you will not achieve it is

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British and American and French bombers and cruise missiles raining

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down on yet another Arab Muslim country. Not only can many not see

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the history of the last 11 years, many in this country appear to have

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forgotten our history, perfidious Albion in the Arab Middle East, over

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the last century. We need to be strengthening those who are already

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fighting ISIS, ISIL, Al-Qaeda, call them what you will. We need to

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strengthen the Kurdish Peshmerga, the governments of Iraq and Syria,

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and we need to find common ground with Russia, China and Iran. From

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Lawrence of Arabia to David Cameron, not much difference, really, at

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least viewed from the Arab street. From their point of view, Britain

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equals treachery, invasion and occupation. That is why tomorrow in

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Parliament I will be voting against war in Iraq. Again.

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And from the back streets of Westminster to

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our own little back street here in the heart of central London,

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Does it make no difference that this time Iraq has asked for help from

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the US, its Arab allies and so on? It does make a difference. It makes

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it legal, where the bombing in Syria right now is illegal. But it doesn't

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change the other issues I raised. It is indiscriminate. You cannot

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believe anyone who tells you about precision targeting, bombing,

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weapons and so on. It will kill a lot of civilians, women and

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children. And when they are dragged out of the rubble, it will do the

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third thing, it will be counter-productive. It will

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strengthen the fanatics and strengthen their appeal across the

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1.7 billion Sunni Muslims in the world, including those here. What do

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you say to that? The first thing is that even without us having taken

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action, it is clear that those within ISIS are already committing

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barbaric acts. So I don't necessarily believe that it is a

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grievance that causes that to happen. It is an Islamist ideology

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which causes that to happen and needs to be addressed. But our

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barbaric acts, as they will present them, will replace the barbaric acts

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that they are carrying out, I think that is his point. I disagree. Point

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I do agree with is that this needs to be something where those in the

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region are engaged. They are clearly engaged in the military action. They

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are asking, in the case of Iraq, for our support with air strikes. I have

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worked with Iraqi parliamentarians, I have worked in Jordan and other

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parts of that area, and it strikes me that it is not contradictory to

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want to both support the development of democratic government and to

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support with military force where necessary and where asked, in order

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to defeat something which is putting those fledgling governments at

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significant risk. Let me put a point to Michael. We are late to the

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theatre on this. Our military contribution will be insignificant,

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the Arab allies are more important and we are half-hearted about it.

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Why are we bothering? Let me go back to what George said. I think one

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must not speak with any jingoism about this and quite a lot of

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humility. I accept what George says, that we are in the position we are

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in in Iraq partly because we went to war in 2003. But I think, although

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George is right to claim some expertise in the subject and write

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to imply a lack of expertise in London about the Middle East, there

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is expertise in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq and the UAE, and

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Bahrain, all of whom, I think, are involved in this operation. That, I

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find persuasive. Those countries, surely, can make the George argument

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if they care to, but they do not. They make an opposite argument,

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saying they want our help now. They do indeed intend to fight this enemy

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on the ground, they are fighting the enemy on the ground but they want us

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to help from the air. All of those countries you mention are, of

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course, dictatorships, to whom freedom and liberty is an alien

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concept. Jordan is not a dictatorship. Jordan is a royal,

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absolute monarchy dictatorship. I am sorry, you have not spent enough

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time there. The dictatorships that Michael mentioned are not speaking

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for their people. Much of the support for ISIL comes from

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countries like Saudi Arabia, much of the money in the beginning. And

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these countries that you mention, several of them, are up to their

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neck in the blood in the region in the first place. Thirdly, I am not

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sure they are involved. I haven't seen any pictures of any Saudi

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aircraft bombing Syria or Iraq. I haven't seen their livery anywhere.

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They are on the paper, on the masthead, but I don't think they are

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a significant military part. I do not think they would even claim to

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be. But Saudi Arabia has 700 warplanes. 700. We should know, we

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sold them that many. You probably sold them many of them. Why can't

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they do this job? That is a good question. Turkey is a NATO member

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with a powerful army. Iran has a powerful army. If they were really

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committed, they would not need us. They have the hardware. They have

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the hardware but it is useless unless you know how to use it and

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that is partly about pilot training. Saudi pilots are trained in the UK.

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It is partly about intelligence. I do not know their capability and am

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in no position to assess that, but I do think anyone would claim they

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have the expertise the Americans have, or reason the British. I come

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back to the point I made to Michael, why are we bothering? Our military

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contribution is insignificant. They do not need us. We are making it

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more, dictated by saying we will do Iraq but not Syria. There is some

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symbolism for the Americans. The French are there already. Why do

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need need to be there? For principled and pragmatic reasons.

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The principle being, I am an internationalist and I believe when

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people call for your assistance in fighting the barbarism we are seeing

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from ISIL, you should come to their assistance to help them.

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Pragmatically, there is some evidence that those who have been

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radicalised and in fact who have carried out hideous acts in Iraq and

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Syria, were they to return to the UK, were they to want to plot

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against the UK, they would be a threat to our national interest. Are

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they less likely to do so if we bomb them? These people were encouraged

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to go and fight in Syria by Western policy right at the beginning of

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this conflict. It was an insane policy, as I tried to point out at

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the time. All these people would be all dressed up with nowhere to go

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except back home, with all the skills, terrorist skills that they

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acquired in that conflict. The problem for both Michael and Jacqui

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is that the public have heard all this before. These were the reasons

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we were told we should invade and occupy Iraq in the first place, and

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it didn't work then. Why should we believe it will work now? Terrorism

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Act flourished, cascaded everywhere in the world as a result of the

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first Iraq war, the second, as it happened. Dame Manningham Buller

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warned us in advance of the war that it would be the case. She was the

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head of MI5. She said the risk of terrorism in Britain would be

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greater if we invade and attack Iraq.

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We are not to blame for violent Islamism. 9/11 happened before we

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went into Afghanistan. I think that try to somehow suggest, I was glad

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to see your condemnation in the film but what you now appear to be doing

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is shifting responsibility for barb rim, that is the responsibility of

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Isil somehow on to us. This is not about us... George leaves out sense

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of urgency. Isil has made tremendous advances, taking over much of Syria

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an Iraq. The Iraqi government is alarmed about that. The other powers

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in the region, are, to say the least of it, alarmed about that. This is

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not just about considering whether or not a bit of bombing is going to

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make them pore likely to attack us or make them more militant. It is

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also about to arrest a deteriorating situation.

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Let me pick up on that. In New York, thetimes, they pointed out after six

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weeks of American air rads in Iraq, not Syria, Isil or ISIS, has not

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given up a single bit of ground. They are still there. Indeed,

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yesterday they took over an Iraqi Army camp, to miles from Baghdad. So

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what is the air power going to do? Well, air power can kill a lot of

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people and destroy equipment. It can destroy command centres. It must be

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accompanied by an operation on the ground. George is right, that

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operation should be conducted by the local powers.

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The Saudis and the UAE will not commit troops? No, they are not.

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They want to us do it for them. Even though they are in part responsible

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for this problem. But I am in no doubt at all about your

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responsibility in this, and 2 million of us on the streets of

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London told you so at the time, Jacqui Smith. For you now to wash

:17:23.:17:27.

your hands of your share of the responsibility, I'm afraid that is a

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spot that will not wash out. Awful the perfumes of aArabia, will not

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ex-pong. And your poetry, George, does not

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prevent people from being murdered and massacred in Iraq and Syria. You

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killed 1 million people in Iraq. You killed 1 million people in Iraq. It

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is incredible you have the brass neck to be sitting here now urging

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another Iraq war. George, if I were in Parliament, I

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would be there tomorrow living up to my responsibility to answer the call

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of the Iraqi government and people to help to support them. The fact

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you are not is something that you will have to live with.

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A final question, George. If not bombing, if not intervention, how do

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we deal with this cancer? Give Iraq the weapons it has paid for but have

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not been delivered. Strengthen the Peshmerga. Strengthen the

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governments of Iraq and Syria and ask Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Iran to

:18:29.:18:32.

fight this battle. It is their battle, not ours.

:18:33.:18:37.

It is late. Alex Salmond's dream of an independent Scotland late. But

:18:38.:18:43.

don't activate the Babestation subscription yet, because winning in

:18:44.:18:46.

the wings, Stephen K Amos is here to talk about the politics of sticking

:18:47.:18:50.

to the script. And now that we are back on air, let the miss isry, the

:18:51.:18:57.

ignorance and the sheer bile begin on the Twitter, the Fleecebook but

:18:58.:19:04.

no more the interweb, "no", Gordon Brown has decreed it must be

:19:05.:19:09.

henceforth called the Web Sphere? I kid you not. Just Google his speech

:19:10.:19:15.

in Dunfermline last Saturday. No sooner was the Scottish referendum

:19:16.:19:19.

over, the Labour Party Conference started with a bang in Manchester,

:19:20.:19:24.

or more like a pop, a fizzle. There was Ed Miliband's party

:19:25.:19:29.

tricks, that went well. He spoke of all of the interesting people he met

:19:30.:19:36.

when he roamed of the Westminster bubble, as far as Hampstead Heath.

:19:37.:19:42.

Interestingly, all of the people he met, spoke Milibandese. He spoke

:19:43.:19:45.

about the ruin that is Britain today. Nobody mentioned the,

:19:46.:19:50.

immigration or welfare. That explains why he forgot to mention

:19:51.:19:55.

them. Any way, here is the Observer's Andrew Rawnsley out for a

:19:56.:19:59.

bit of a stroll in the foot steps of Ed.

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MUSIC: Parklife.

:20:10.:20:14.

The other day I was in the park, this young guy called Ed came over.

:20:15.:20:19.

He said he was on his way to a job interview. He was worried he would

:20:20.:20:24.

not get it. Well, I said, your task at your

:20:25.:20:27.

conference is to convince people that you are up to being the Prime

:20:28.:20:31.

Minister and to get them excited about the idea of a Labour Party

:20:32.:20:35.

Government. It wouldn't be a bad idea to look at how Tony Blair

:20:36.:20:38.

pulled it off. In his last conference speech, before he won a

:20:39.:20:43.

landslide in 1997. Labour has come home to you, so come

:20:44.:20:54.

home to us. Labour's coming home! Oh, no, said Ed, just because Tony

:20:55.:20:58.

Blair won three elections in a row, why should I want to copy him? My

:20:59.:21:04.

speech is about chance conversations with random people I have bumped

:21:05.:21:08.

into on Hampstead Heath. We have to understand what people

:21:09.:21:11.

are saying to us across the United Kingdom. I think across the country,

:21:12.:21:16.

there are a silent majority who wanted our country to endure but are

:21:17.:21:20.

telling us things must change. They come from every walk of life. Like a

:21:21.:21:26.

young woman who works in a pub near where I live... Yeah, because you

:21:27.:21:32.

are just an ordinary bloke who likes a pint. Are you sure about this, Ed?

:21:33.:21:38.

Quoting encounterparters with voters is a device overused by politicians.

:21:39.:21:45.

You will be mocked by it, especially if you only meet people who agree

:21:46.:21:48.

with you. Like Gareth, high up in a software

:21:49.:21:52.

company. With a five-year-old daughter, earning a decent wage, he

:21:53.:21:57.

cannot afford to by himself a home for himself and family. Priced out

:21:58.:22:02.

by the rich. Hi, guise, any of you met a

:22:03.:22:06.

politician in this park? No. Look, Ed, this speech must be special.

:22:07.:22:12.

Your conference is fighting for attention amidst the fallout from

:22:13.:22:15.

the Scottish referendum and military action against Isil. People will

:22:16.:22:19.

want to hear something authoritative.

:22:20.:22:23.

I met somebody called Elizabeth the other day, where is she? She is

:22:24.:22:27.

here. Elizabeth, why not stand up for a second. Elizabeth is an

:22:28.:22:33.

apprentice... Ed, I hear you are planning to make the speech without

:22:34.:22:38.

an autocue. Frankly, that worries me it is risky at such a crucial event.

:22:39.:22:45.

Would it not look more prime material to be at a lecturn. Then

:22:46.:22:50.

watch out for ambitious colleagues, keen to show that they can arouse

:22:51.:22:55.

the activists by telling them what they want it hear.

:22:56.:22:59.

With will free the NHS from Cameron's market and repeal his

:23:00.:23:04.

toxic health and social care act if it is the first thing that we do.

:23:05.:23:09.

Ed shook his head, don't worry, he said. He was the man with the plan.

:23:10.:23:15.

A ten-year plan. And he was good at remembering stuff.

:23:16.:23:20.

Earlier, I mention the Gareth who works at a software company. Worried

:23:21.:23:24.

about his daughter and the future. I met his colleagues as well... OK,

:23:25.:23:30.

Ed, between talking about Gareth's life story, people will expect to

:23:31.:23:35.

hear how you deal with the deficit. I mentioned earlier on I spent a

:23:36.:23:42.

couple of days at a hospital in Watford. I met an amazing man called

:23:43.:23:48.

Colin. I will always remember my conversations with him.

:23:49.:23:54.

You and he agreed that the NHS is great and you need more money. The

:23:55.:24:00.

deficit, Ed, you have to talk about it.

:24:01.:24:06.

The next Labour Party will get the deficit down.

:24:07.:24:10.

Look, it will be odd if you don't say something about the deficit. The

:24:11.:24:14.

Tories and their newspapers will lacerate if you don't. Promise, you

:24:15.:24:21.

will not forget... Together. The deficit, Ed, the deficit?

:24:22.:24:26.

Together... The deficit, Ed, you promised you would not forget!

:24:27.:24:34.

Together, we can! You know, I was in the park the other day and this guy

:24:35.:24:40.

came over, his name was voter. Andrew, he said, I never believe a

:24:41.:24:44.

word they say at their party conferences. Funny isn't it, how our

:24:45.:24:49.

politicians never seem to meet anyone like that.

:24:50.:24:59.

Andrew Rawnsley, cruising the Heath! I'll just let that sink in. Miranda

:25:00.:25:03.

is back with Damian McBride. Welcome to the programme. How do you sum up

:25:04.:25:08.

Ed's week? Not the best. He has had better. He is coming to the

:25:09.:25:13.

conference under more pressure before and delivered a better

:25:14.:25:16.

performance. Maybe a bit of complacency this time.

:25:17.:25:21.

He set the weather with the price freeze and people remember the

:25:22.:25:26.

predator/producer speech. He had a record of doing it.

:25:27.:25:30.

He has done it in that way and done it well. But if you are going to do

:25:31.:25:35.

it, you cannot afford to make mistakes.

:25:36.:25:39.

Was it third time lucky? We are seven months between the election,

:25:40.:25:45.

to give up the party trick, look Prime Ministerial? I think in

:25:46.:25:49.

retrospect he should have done that. He was like a groom at the wedding

:25:50.:25:55.

forgetting to mention the mother of the bride.

:25:56.:25:57.

That bad. It was a catastrophe.

:25:58.:26:01.

Not the ideal preelection conference? No. I agree with Damian.

:26:02.:26:06.

There were many lining up, ready to have a go.

:26:07.:26:11.

It would have been better had he not handed out the sticks for people to

:26:12.:26:17.

beat him with. But given he was outlining a plan, with I think was a

:26:18.:26:23.

good plan it would have been legitimate to talk from a script.

:26:24.:26:27.

But the important thing, dare I say it, that will remain after we forget

:26:28.:26:31.

about that is what he was talking about. I think that there will be

:26:32.:26:36.

many who will go away from the conference, wishing that the speech

:26:37.:26:40.

had gone better but know that there is lots to talk about on the

:26:41.:26:46.

doorstep. The minimum, the NHS, young people getting apresencises.

:26:47.:26:51.

But it was a speech designed ah to the core vote. Not designed to the

:26:52.:26:57.

wider electorate? He has decided on a strategy. That was a speech that

:26:58.:27:02.

delivered on that strategy. The party faithful love the bits

:27:03.:27:06.

about the NHS. But did it go beyond that? Does Labour feel like a party

:27:07.:27:14.

on the brink of power? I do believe that Labour will win next May.

:27:15.:27:19.

Does it feel like a party on the brink of power? Yes, I think that

:27:20.:27:23.

they will win. It did not feel like it then.

:27:24.:27:28.

I was in the party conference in '92. That was full of buzz.

:27:29.:27:34.

I was at 91, that was full of buzz. '96 was full of buzz.

:27:35.:27:38.

That's what I mean. But then we failed. Perhaps people from feeling

:27:39.:27:45.

a bit tired from coming back from Scotland and two, not necessarily

:27:46.:27:51.

feeling taken for granted. No many of them had been to

:27:52.:28:00.

Scotland! Dugs are Labour rates so highly on the NHS issue. They have,

:28:01.:28:04.

the NHS is really important. They get the NHS vote. Where they don't

:28:05.:28:10.

get the vote is on the economy, where they rate badly. Would it is

:28:11.:28:16.

made more sense to try to bolster the credentials on the economy? Yes,

:28:17.:28:20.

and that is what Ed Balls was trying to do. He made a tough speech in

:28:21.:28:25.

which he talked about the deficit being brought down. There is a

:28:26.:28:28.

trick. The deficit that the Labour talks about is different from the

:28:29.:28:33.

one that the coalition talks about. But we have forgotten Saturday,

:28:34.:28:38.

Sunday, Monday. That was dominated by Labour's failure to reply to the

:28:39.:28:44.

Conservative challenge of English votes for English laws. I think that

:28:45.:28:48.

unnerved the Labour Party. They did not have a good answer. It got them

:28:49.:28:56.

off ah to a bad start. And it is important to remember that nobody

:28:57.:28:59.

outside of the hall has seen that speech. All that people are left

:29:00.:29:04.

with is the impression of what the newspapers carried on the speech. I

:29:05.:29:09.

was amazed with the Today programme. I heard something that I don't

:29:10.:29:14.

normally hear from the BBC, that they were saying that all newspapers

:29:15.:29:19.

condemn the Labour Conference as a catastrophe. They are normally

:29:20.:29:25.

even-handed. I have never heard that.

:29:26.:29:29.

Are we making a fuss of it? I am not a fan of set pieces. As Michael

:29:30.:29:34.

says, the great British public will see a clip and make their mind up.

:29:35.:29:39.

But it was not just the manner of the speech, that was wrong with it.

:29:40.:29:43.

I think that the substance was a disaster as well. Not just the

:29:44.:29:48.

forgetting the deficit, forgetting to mention immigration, a big issue

:29:49.:29:53.

for Labour as they are under threat from UKIP in certain seats. But the

:29:54.:30:00.

ten-year plan was in an awful way, both underambitious and uninspiring

:30:01.:30:03.

and just not credible. Every young person that does not go

:30:04.:30:08.

to university will have an apprenticeship. Every government

:30:09.:30:14.

trying to revolutionise vocational training and solve the skills

:30:15.:30:18.

problems and does not manage to do it, so I think that the matter of

:30:19.:30:23.

substance, the policies were wrong. The NHS is hugely important. It is

:30:24.:30:28.

under trouble at the moment. Labour thinks of itself as the guardian of

:30:29.:30:31.

the NHS. But is it right to put the NHS at

:30:32.:30:34.

the centre of the election strategy? Labour have had a lead on the NHS

:30:35.:30:48.

but no dividing line from the Tories. They have established a

:30:49.:30:54.

difference on spending now. That is 2.5 billion that the Tories will not

:30:55.:30:59.

commit to because they are not prepared to introduce a mansion tax

:31:00.:31:04.

rate tax on hedge funds is. But I think the public knows a bit about

:31:05.:31:08.

the extent of National Health Service problems and quite a lot

:31:09.:31:11.

about the deficit. And I don't think they will think that a little bit of

:31:12.:31:15.

money raised from people with expensive houses will solve the

:31:16.:31:20.

problem. I really think Miliband is overestimated the gullibility of the

:31:21.:31:26.

public on that. But people do care about the NHS. Is he being badly

:31:27.:31:31.

advised? I don't think so. Coming into a harsh winter, any people will

:31:32.:31:36.

think that 2.5 billion will make a big difference to the NHS. They are

:31:37.:31:41.

narrowing down to the core vote. That is where the strategy is. This

:31:42.:31:45.

probably reflects the difference between 91 and 96. This party knows

:31:46.:31:50.

it will be in a fight, in the same way as in Scotland. It will be tooth

:31:51.:31:55.

and nail right to the end, and that is where the Labour Party is at the

:31:56.:31:59.

moment. Just to draw back and look down on this, the parties are

:32:00.:32:03.

scoring something like 30% each, Conservative and Labour. In each

:32:04.:32:08.

case, that is the most miserable score. This is a deplorable state of

:32:09.:32:13.

affairs for either party. The idea that the two leading parties have

:32:14.:32:16.

60% of the vote between them is really depressing. But if it was so

:32:17.:32:22.

that they both got 30% at the next election, Labour would win and would

:32:23.:32:28.

be the next government. Our democracy is in a very poor state

:32:29.:32:32.

when a party that gets 30% will form the government. And when you think

:32:33.:32:38.

the turnout will probably be 60%, so 30% of 60%, quite a small fraction

:32:39.:32:43.

would elect the next government. Not quite as depressing as being a Lib

:32:44.:32:49.

Dem leader, Miranda. Well, we shall see. The Greens are doing

:32:50.:32:55.

interesting things and may cause the Lib Dems problems in some seats. It

:32:56.:33:02.

ought to be good news, this historic opportunity to be a permanent

:33:03.:33:05.

kingmaker when the larger parties can't ever get a stonking majority

:33:06.:33:10.

again. It should be a fantastic opportunity but I think the Lib Dems

:33:11.:33:14.

are so battle scarred by the coalition experience that they are

:33:15.:33:18.

struggling to find their way through the next few months. Labour, as a

:33:19.:33:27.

party, is popular. Labour rates much better than Mr Miliband. The problem

:33:28.:33:34.

is his personal ratings. So if you paint a picture of Britain as grim

:33:35.:33:38.

and miserable as he did in his speech, which means it needs

:33:39.:33:42.

incredible change and huge leadership, why would you turn to Mr

:33:43.:33:47.

Miliband? I think you might turn to the policies. You are right that the

:33:48.:33:54.

party, and presumably the policies that the party is beginning to

:33:55.:33:59.

articulate more clearly, is winning, albeit not an enormous

:34:00.:34:03.

amount of support, but more support than the party it will be up against

:34:04.:34:07.

in the general election. Therefore, if you are going to be six at four

:34:08.:34:11.

in that very tight election, you are going to need to focus on the things

:34:12.:34:15.

that British people will listen to you about. That is the reason for

:34:16.:34:20.

the NHS and for some policies I think will be popular, like the

:34:21.:34:25.

minimum wage and apprenticeships. The Labour Party has just had the

:34:26.:34:30.

most... I know the referendum in Scotland was won by the no vote but

:34:31.:34:33.

it was traumatic for the Labour Party, watching all these people who

:34:34.:34:36.

had always voted Labour going and voting yes. Labour must be deeply

:34:37.:34:42.

worried about its heartland, and not only in Scotland, actually, because

:34:43.:34:46.

Ed Miliband is not a character who appeals to basic caller Labour

:34:47.:34:51.

voters. Unless you are on Hampstead Heath. Can he still win? Yes, but I

:34:52.:34:58.

think, for the reason Michael says, there needs to be a broader team

:34:59.:35:02.

representing labour. Get Andy Burnham and Ed Balls campaigning in

:35:03.:35:06.

the North. Play your star players where they can have the most impact.

:35:07.:35:12.

Is he right to stick with the core strategy? Yes, but also making sure

:35:13.:35:16.

the defecting Lib Dems stay in the red column. We will see what

:35:17.:35:19.

happens. Thank you, both. Because the speech he forgot to

:35:20.:35:25.

give had some brilliant lines. "We shall fight them on the beaches

:35:26.:35:29.

of the bathing ponds on "Ask not what your country can do

:35:30.:35:32.

for Gareth, who I met on Hampstead Heath of a night, ask what

:35:33.:35:37.

Gareth can do for your country". And, "I have a dream,

:35:38.:35:40.

that I met someone called Elizabeth So, Elizabeth is an

:35:41.:35:44.

auto-electrician apprentice. Nope, I've no idea what

:35:45.:35:49.

that means either. But let's have a round

:35:50.:35:51.

of applause for her and So that's why we've decided to put

:35:52.:35:53.

sticking to the script Remembering your lines can be

:35:54.:36:17.

tough. Stubborn little things can slip your mind, like Britain's

:36:18.:36:22.

budget deficit or its increasing level of immigration. Going off

:36:23.:36:25.

script is one thing but is there any excuse for Ed Miliband forgetting to

:36:26.:36:28.

mention them in his party conference speech? Barack Obama did not muddle

:36:29.:36:34.

his words at the UN. Calling for action against IS, he stuck to a

:36:35.:36:40.

preprepared script, relying, as he always does, on the fake spontaneity

:36:41.:36:45.

a teleprompter provides. The cat did not have David Cameron's tongue this

:36:46.:36:51.

week. He posted that he had tickled the Queen's time when he told her

:36:52.:36:57.

the Scottish referendum result. He has gone back to following the

:36:58.:37:01.

script now and will make a grovelling apology the next time he

:37:02.:37:06.

sees her. Unlike a report on the local Alaskan news, who is not

:37:07.:37:12.

apologising for anything. She tore up the script this week and revealed

:37:13.:37:17.

her support for the legalisation of marijuana live on-air, leaving a

:37:18.:37:22.

trail of smoke behind her. And as for this job, well, not that I have

:37:23.:37:32.

a choice, but I quit. And while we apologise for that...

:37:33.:37:41.

That is how we often feel on this programme. We are joined by Stephen

:37:42.:37:47.

K Amos. Welcome. When you up, do you follow a script do you improvise on

:37:48.:37:53.

the way? I have a script in my head. I know the show, because I try it

:37:54.:37:58.

out for a long time, six or seven weeks before I do the show. But I

:37:59.:38:03.

also leave enough time to be able to be in the moment and react to what

:38:04.:38:09.

is happening. If you have a prepared spine and you leave it, it can be

:38:10.:38:13.

tricky to find your way back. Yes, but that is why many stand-ups have

:38:14.:38:18.

little tricks. For example lots of stand-ups right bullet points on

:38:19.:38:22.

their hand. That is what I would have suggested to Ed Miliband. He

:38:23.:38:25.

should have been forthright enough to have bullet points. Or like me

:38:26.:38:30.

today, have bits of paper and you can have a look down. All like an

:38:31.:38:35.

actor, have a prompter in the wings reminding you to carry on. It is a

:38:36.:38:42.

lot of effort to memorise something for 80 minutes. It is a lot of

:38:43.:38:46.

effort but many stand-ups do a chauffeur to ours. The problem was

:38:47.:38:50.

that he has this thing, this massive deal, this conference to deliver and

:38:51.:38:56.

not long enough to run it in. And he is only doing it once, whereas you

:38:57.:39:02.

get to memorise yours over time. Yes, and find out the nuances, the

:39:03.:39:06.

way to say things and which part of the script the audience will go for.

:39:07.:39:12.

Also, it is about my voice. I have a very commanding sort of voice. The

:39:13.:39:17.

problem with Ed Miliband, what he probably saw last week was Gordon

:39:18.:39:21.

Brown doing his powerful, passionate speech with no notes and he thought,

:39:22.:39:26.

I will do a bit of that. Didn't really work. When you add lib, it

:39:27.:39:30.

can also be when you are at your most powerful, most convincing. But

:39:31.:39:37.

that is for professionals. When Ed Miliband tried to do that by

:39:38.:39:41.

mentioning Elizabeth, Gareth or whatever, it just became the butt of

:39:42.:39:45.

a joke. Yes, because you have to also be there the moment to share

:39:46.:39:51.

the experience. If I randomly talk about somebody we have two imagine,

:39:52.:39:56.

that is a bit creepy. Would he have been better advised, he has done the

:39:57.:40:02.

trick before and we know he can memorise a speech, would he not have

:40:03.:40:06.

been better seven months before the election, for a man whose personal

:40:07.:40:10.

rating is not great, to say, you need to look Prime Minister real,

:40:11.:40:15.

behind Alex turn, looking straight down the camera lens and delivering

:40:16.:40:22.

a message. Possibly, but he was trying to show us and the delegates

:40:23.:40:26.

that he could stand there and deliver something with passion,

:40:27.:40:30.

energy off the top of his head. It didn't quite work. For me, he should

:40:31.:40:35.

maybe have had an autocue, bullet points to remind him. I thought he

:40:36.:40:40.

was getting quite a few applause breaks, so maybe he was saving that

:40:41.:40:45.

bit for the end. He got massive applause on the NHS part when he got

:40:46.:40:51.

there. I think you are not quite right. Politicians speak on the

:40:52.:40:57.

stump all the time. They are always creating little capsules of speech

:40:58.:41:01.

in their mind. When it comes to a conference speech, they are putting

:41:02.:41:04.

together a little capsules they have again. So it is not such an effort

:41:05.:41:09.

to learn and 80 minute speech because there are lots of little

:41:10.:41:12.

bits that you have delivered 100 times before. The second thing is

:41:13.:41:18.

that it does give you a tremendous freedom. And if you are really good

:41:19.:41:23.

at it you can expand upon a point, or you can drop a point if you think

:41:24.:41:29.

it is not going down very well. The converse situation, that great

:41:30.:41:32.

professional, Tony Blair, when he talked to the Women's Institute and

:41:33.:41:36.

they started to hiss, and you could see him looking through. He had

:41:37.:41:39.

another ten pages to read and no way of dumping the ten pages. The big

:41:40.:41:44.

mistake that Ed Miliband made was to go and do something which was, as it

:41:45.:41:48.

were, off-the-cuff, without a script, and then release the script.

:41:49.:41:55.

Then, you are in trouble. It was when he released the script that we

:41:56.:41:59.

realised he had missed out important things like the deficit, the economy

:42:00.:42:03.

and immigration. What would you have advised? At this point, given that

:42:04.:42:09.

he was talking about a plan, I would have advised him to do it with a

:42:10.:42:13.

script and a podium. But going back to what Michael said, what he

:42:14.:42:18.

thought he was trying to do, with some justification, was to not be a

:42:19.:42:21.

traditional politician delivering a set piece speech, but to say, I know

:42:22.:42:26.

what is happening to people. Here are some examples of people whose

:42:27.:42:32.

situation I understand. I am not just delivering a speech, I am

:42:33.:42:36.

talking to you. That would have worked well had it actually been

:42:37.:42:40.

what he was doing, but the publication of the script

:42:41.:42:42.

demonstrated that it was not. You have to do one or the other. 80

:42:43.:42:48.

minutes was too long. Michael, I disagree. If I saw a politician

:42:49.:42:55.

regurgitating the bits I had seen him do before, that would not

:42:56.:42:59.

encourage me. If I saw you speaking from your heart and passionately

:43:00.:43:02.

about stuff you believe in, I might take you seriously. What are you

:43:03.:43:08.

doing? We go on tour from next week, all over the UK. It is called

:43:09.:43:13.

welcome to my world, and it is scripted.

:43:14.:43:16.

But not for us and not for Ed Miliband, who really should get

:43:17.:43:21.

some shut-eye and stop thinking about what might've been.

:43:22.:43:23.

Because according to the Labour leader,

:43:24.:43:24.

"David Cameron doesn't lie awake at night thinking about Gareth".

:43:25.:43:27.

At least, we think that's what he said.

:43:28.:43:30.

# Memories, like the corners of my mind

:43:31.:44:01.

# Misty water coloured memories # Of the way we were.

:44:02.:44:05.

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