11/09/2014 This Week

From Edinburgh, capital of Scotland, the show that makes you proud to be

British, for now, it's This Week, with Andrew Neil. Tonight, Michael

Portillo, Diane Abbott, and chat show Charlie Kennedy. Campaigning

firebrand, wife of Rab C Nesbitt, Elaine C Smith, SNP 's superstar,

Hamza Yusuf, Scottish history boy, Niall Ferguson. And the Hollywood

comes to Holyrood, with actor Brian Cox. Your host tonight, put your

hands and your paws together for club reporter and Paisley boy,

Andrew Neill. Andrew, Andrew, Andrew! Good

evening, all. Welcome to downtown Edinburgh, from where we bring you,

in the words of the Prime Minister, an effing special edition of This

Week. With a semicomatose audience of effing This Week fans. Just like

the entire effing BBC, we have hit the panic button. The team this week

are back in Scotland, like the alcohol soaked cherry on the

referendum. The atmosphere is feeble, and not just when Michael is

changing in the dressing room. Before we cracked open the blue

none, let me introduce you to Molly's cousins from north of the

border. Here they are. Bach once for yes, twice for no. I guess they are

abstaining. Anyway, let me introduce you to my very own band, still

following me everywhere. Carry on dancing.

APPLAUSE More from them later. Westminster

politicians have had a busy summer. David Cameron has been boogie

boarding and pointing at dead fish in Cornwall. Nick Clegg has been

getting an earful from his in-laws in Spain, and Ed Miliband has been

getting his head flushed down the loo at the Rubik 's cube camp in

Tuscany. It must have come as a shock to them when they were told

Scotland was having a referendum on leaving the UK, and even more of a

surprise to be told they might lose. At least they did not embarrass

themselves by jumping immediately on a train and heading north in a

last-ditch effort to save the union, because that would have looked like

panic, and made Alex Salmond look even more smug. As proof of the

folly of rushing across borders without a clue about where you are,

or why, I am joined on the sofa by some who should never be pressed

interaction when things go pear shaped. Think of them is the panic

button and panic attack of late-night political discourse. I

speak of sad man on a tram, Michael Portillo, and Diane - are you sure

this is Jamaica - Abbott. Joining them for one night only, rising star

of the Liberal Democrats - sorry, that is an old script. Very old.

Chat show Charlie, Charles Kennedy. Give them a round of applause.

Michael, your moment of the week in this momentous week for Scotland and

the United Kingdom? I suppose the announcement of the United Kingdom

government's policy of devolution max, by Mr Gordon Brown. Has he

joined the government? You might have thought so. A policy ruled out

of the referendum by David Cameron. If there is a no vote, there will be

devolution max which no one north or south of the border will have voted

for. Your moment? It would have to be the YouGov poll which put the yes

campaign ahead for the very first time. The point is that in London,

in Westminster, everybody was so complacent. They never thought this

could happen. Ever since, they have been running around like headless

chickens. All I would say about the referendum is, Win, lose or draw, it

has electrified British politics. Charles. A revelation and exclusive

for this programme. When they failed to raise the sole tyre about --

above Number Ten Downing St. -- the Scottish flag. Suddenly I realised

that David Cameron is now a don't know. It must be. They got it up in

the end, as they say, on late-night television. You are just back from

Amsterdam, aren't you? What happens in Amsterdam stays in Amsterdam.

Unfortunately what happens in Scotland does not necessarily stay

in Scotland. One story has been on the front page of every newspaper in

the UK and around the world. Yes, the Duchess of Cambridge has another

bun in the oven. I am not saying the Royals are worried about the union

but I am authorised to tell you that if it is a girl she will be called

Morag MacTavish Michael Windsor. But what sort of kingdom will he be born

into? Will it include Scotland? Will Rangers still be in the second-tier

division? After all, those most affected by next Thursday's vote

will be today's babies. So we turned to actor, pro-independence

activist, recent granny, Elaine C Smith. This is her takeover week. --

her take of the week. Like Prince Charles I have recently

become a grandparent. I think that is where any similarity between

Prince Charles and I actually ends. But I am sure, like me, he found it

a life changing, momentous, life affirming. That has made me even

more determined to campaign for the yes vote, because I want to make

this place better, for my grand daughter, Stella, and her parents,

and for a lot of other people as well.

When my daughter was pregnant, we did not know if it was a boy or a

girl she was having. Then I read a statistic that chilled me to the

bone. One male baby in every four born in Glasgow this year will not

live until they are 65. I could not believe it. This is 2014. If this is

Better Together, if this is the best of both worlds, then God help us.

We all want to make this place better, but I am campaigning for a

yes vote because I no longer believe it is possible for Westminster to do

that. I think the time is right for Scotland to take the power back into

our hands to make decisions that affect the people who live and work

here. Will it be perfect? I doubt it. Is there a magic wand available?

No, there isn't, but that is what being a grown-up country is all

about, making mistakes and making wonderful choices as well. We just

want to be grown-up, thanks. I have never seen a political

campaign like this in my lifetime. The level of engagement from people

in communities across Scotland has just been magical, actually. I love

the fact that people in pubs and clubs are discussing politics,

talking about ego membership. -- EU membership. I do hope Scotland

doesn't miss this wonderful opportunity. I will take this. What

currency will you be paying with today? The pound.

From the children's boutique to our very own little boutique in the

heart of Edinburgh, Elaine joins us now. Give her a warm welcome.

APPLAUSE Charles, you heard what Elaine had

to say. What do you say? Well, I don't think, in terms of sentiment,

and this is something we need to bear in mind for a week today and

the day after a week today, I don't think in terms of Scottish sentiment

you would probably put a stamp between us. I think it is a matter

of not whether Scotland could be independent. I never had an issue

about that. It is whether we should be. You talk about children. I look

at my life chances, growing up as a child, then a fitting from the

National Health Service, growing up with institutions like the BBC,

great achievements built without Borders and boundaries. I think the

great thing that Scotland brings to the world, and I am sure you will

agree, we have never been selfish. We have been a sharing people,

sometimes out of necessity, sometimes out of opportunity, right

round the world. I think we build more and get further and give more

opportunities to the next generation by maintaining that sentiment and

that sense. That is why I vote no. I vote no, positively, to build

something for the future. It is a gamble that Scotland would be better

off if it went independent, isn't it? I do not see it as a gamble that

is not worth taking. I think voting no is a gamble, every bit as much of

a gamble. I am looking down the line and seeing the prospect of a Tory

-UKIP coalition with Boris Johnson as Prime Minister and Nigel Farage

in Cabinet. What are you taking, Elaine? I have been told lots of

stuff! That is on the horizon, that move to the right. It seems to me

something that within Scotland that we are not really looking forward

to. And the changes, the benefit cuts, the things coming down the

line that will affect the poorest in Scotland, are on the horizon. You

are right, we do agree on a great deal. I just no longer believe that

Westminster can be fixed. I just don't believe there is the political

will or desire to do it. Michael, the no campaign, after the YouGov

poll, the no campaign has thrown just about everything at the yes

campaign. But is that not just more of the fear factor? Are they not

just playing on fear? Well, obviously, if the parties in England

really had wanted devolution max, they would have started to roll it

out after 2011 and by now it would be in place, so it is hard for them

to say, this is what we wanted in the first place. They would have

consulted the people of Scotland and the British Parliament. There would

have been a properly considered plan. I think it is evident from

what you are saying that much of this is about wanting to have only

left-wing government in Scotland. There are over 200,000 Tories in

Scotland. Let me make the point. It is about having left-wing

governments in Scotland. Two words of caution. First, when you talk

about independence forever, that is a short-term view. The Tories were

powerful in Scotland in the 1950s. These things can change. Secondly,

Europe is full of left-wing governments that have had to do

right wing things because they have been obliged to follow austerity

programmes by the EU. Left-wing governments across the Mediterranean

had to do right wing things. Scotland has found itself in the UK

relatively protected against austerity, by comparison with

Ireland, Spain, Greece or Italy. And I think one of the consequences of

Scotland having to live entirely within its own means is that the

government in Scotland, which will be of the left, either SNP or

Labour, but following more austere and right-wing policies than they

have been used to. Coming back to the YouGov poll that you mentioned,

the reason why that showed, for the first time, an increase and the yes

vote being ahead of the no vote was because Labour voters were peeling

away from Labour, as Elaine has done herself, and going for the

Nationalists and for independence. So why don't Scottish Labour voters

listen to Labour politicians any more? Some of them do. But there is

no question. The SNP in London have told me look at the number of

undecided voters. When they break, they will break for us. But Labour

voters have been breaking for Elaine's side. They were Labour

undecided. I think there is an underlying issue across the

country, actually, of cynicism and alienation from Westminster elites.

I think it is a little unfair of Michael, who is always fair, to say

this is about having a left-wing government. This is about the

Scottish people being able to choose their own government. Is that a good

thing? I have a lot of sympathy for it. But is it a good thing? Elaine

said she wanted to be free from Boris Johnson. Mind you, so do I!

Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage in government. But it is about the

democratic deficit. It is the fact that as a nation we have been voting

differently and not getting the government we voted for. For 17

years you had a Labour government you voted for. I didn't vote for

them. I wonder if the campaign, which had this boost at the weekend,

has perhaps peaked too soon. There is a new YouGov poll out tomorrow in

the times and in the Sun, the same organisation, and that puts the no

vote at 52 points and the yes vote at 48. It is nip and tuck, very

close. But that doesn't suggest a momentum on the yes side.

Well, I think from where we have come and given the level of

negativity, we have had one Sunday newspaper in Scotland supporting the

yes campaign, we have a barrage, it's project terror we are getting,

and for us even to be within spitting distance is a remarkable

achievement. And even with the, in this latest poll, the no ahead once

again, it's in the statisticical margin of error, meaning the yes

haven't got a momentum yet, as in voting in a referenda, it's it's

still wide-open, I would suggest. You put me on the spot in this room

two months ago and mine were ahead a few points and there were raised

eyebrows. I said it will two right to the wire and it will be tight on

the night and people were saying no and I said, this isn't a

conventional election, this is a once in a lifetime referendum of a

type we've never had. A whole lot of people are going to vote. Good God,

we have seen 97% registration who never normally vote. Human nature

suggests, if all these folk aren't voting before, and I'm not talking

about the firstving time voters, but people who're going on to the

register, they can't be that enamoured with the voting system, so

I suspect human nature being what it is, they are there for a purpose,

which is the vote for the most dramatic change. Within 55-45,

that's always been my range for what the outcome will be and it's all to

play for with a week to go. Does it make sense to come out with the

extra home rule stuff only after the polls started going against your

side? Oh, no, far better to have had this a year ago. Political parties

are democratic organisations internally, they take time. You've

got three things that will eventually be compromised into one.

But actually, after the cause, it's to be remembered, say the result is

no for arguments sake but you want to push that agenda rule forward, a

more federal direction I hope for the UK, the lesson from Scotland is,

you will need to go outside the political parties, and get the

people who voted yes, get them involved, in a wider civic Scotland

to make it stick. That will be the big challenge.

We'll know in a week. Despite tomorrow eats polling, what do you

think? I have no idea. I'm not a politician so... That's why you gave

me an honest answer! Exactly. Thank you very much! But at the start of

this, I wanted obviously to win and I am campaign fog a yes vote, but I

always wanted to be close -- wanted it to be close. This has been like

nothing I've ever seen in my lifetime, it's wonderful.

Thank you very much. CHEERING AND

APPLAUSE It's late, very late, almost as late as a 12 point

timetable for home rule designed by the former great leader Gordon

Brown, don't let the thought of that put you to sleep because waiting in

the wings, actor and campaigner Brian Cox and historian Neil

Ferguson. They'll be with us to discuss whether the UK's days are

finally over. Remember, if you can puts up with all the other idiots,

we are all over the Twitter, Fleecebook and interweb. Carry on

dancing? Give us something to raise our spirits.

APPLAUSE Now, there's a genuine sense of

excitement, tension and apprehension in the air here in Scotland with the

big vote only one week away. We wanted to get a sense of how much is

at stake, separate the half baked from the half-truths sowe turned to

BBC Scotland's Sarah Smith. This is our round-up of the referendum week.

It is such an exciting, nail-biting week in Scottish politics. I

couldn't resist taking part in the great Scottish Bake Off but I am

going to need to pick up a few tips. The competition is getting tough in

the Scottish kitchen with some polls putting the two sides neck and neck.

Recently, the No Campaign's been looking as messy as a baked Alaska

that's been left out of the freezer. We've had to call in a previous

winner to sort things out, Gordon Brown. He's announced a new tame

table for extra powers to be devolved in the Scottish Parliament

if there is a no vote next week. We are proposing that over the next few

months, we agree a programme that the Scottish Parliament should have

increased powers, in welfare, social and economic policy and in finance.

Contestants are always running out of time. But now it's better

together who look like they are panicking, coming up with this

last-minute offer of more powers for the Scottish Parliament. Lots of

voters I've spoke to say they are reluctantly voting yes because what

they really wanted was more devolution all along. Is this late

offer going to be enough to change their minds? I'm not sure. Is it

really a last-minute show stopper? Or more of a half baked idea?

A panicky Prime Minister hoisted a saltire flag above Downing Street,

but it promptly fell down again. He cancelled Prime Minister's Questions

so he and Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband could come to Scotland to try to

flatten out the worries of voters who've been tempted by the tasty

treats of the yes campaign. The Prime Minister used some words that

will never cross Mary Berry's lips. People feel like it's like a general

election, you make a decision in five years' time it can be changed.

Solidarity, social justice, together not alone. From the head, from the

heart, from the soul, vote no in this referendum and let's change

Britain together. The three Westminster party leaders want us to

believe that they are all offering devolution plans which are all the

same size and shape, but the truth is, they don't actually agree on

what extra powers to give the Scottish Parliament which makes the

whole thing a lot less credible. They didn't even want to be seen

together up here in Scotland visiting entirely different cities.

So much for better together. Alex Salmond for his part said he was

delighted to have them here. What we are seeing today on the other side

is team Westminster jetting up to Scotland for the day because they

are panicking in the campaign. Alex Salmond thinks he's got the

winning recipe but he could yet develop a soggy bottom.

Several big businesses said they may move their operations outside of

Scotland if there's a yes vote. Combined with some less than helpful

comments from the Governor of the Bank of England, Salmond's opponents

are saying yesterday was his own personal Black Wednesday.

I think the problem lies entirely with the no-campaign for this reason

- they have now been caught red handed as being part of a campaign

of scaremongering. My secret ingredient is all very

hush-hush, but what's no secret is that whatever happens with the

referendum, Britain is a country -- as a country will have been changed

for ever. If it's a no-vote, the sweeteners offered by thedown-onist

mean the Scottish Parliament will be able to tax, spend and borrow more

than ever before. It can't be long before other parts of Britain ask

for a larger slice of the constitutional cake. If it's a yes

vote, then everything changes. Torturous negotiations will begin

over everything from what currency Scotland will use to when Trident

nuclear missiles have to leave the country. And a big question mark

will hang over whether David Cameron can keep his job as Prime Minister.

Now though, it's my moment of reckoning.

Unfortunately, that is bland. Did you make the fondant? No, I must

admit, I didn't. Just perfect. Lovely.

I'm rather pleased with my efforts on the great Scottish Bake Off. Of

course, by this time next week, we could be talking about the great

Scottish breakoff. Sarah Smith at the Edinburgh School

of Food Wine and she produced this and sent it along for us tonight.

We'll scoff them later. We are thrilled to be joined by the man

many claim is the power behind Alex Salmond. MSP superstar, welcome to

the programme! That poll of the weekend which put

you ahead for the first time, only came out as there was a sense of

momentum but since then you have had people saying you are exaggerating

the size of the oil, the companies agreeing, the Royal Bank of Scotland

saying it would have to move its headquarters out of the country,

people moving their savings. Are you not now on the defensive? Thank you

for that introduction which was undoubtedly the kiss of death of my

career. Thank you. Secondly, you are right, they are throwing everything

at us. Westminster politicians are throwing Nigel Farage at us

tomorrow. It could be count Dracula tomorrow, who knows. I am told he is

being lined up as we speak. The fact that the yes side are celebrating a

poll that's come out today that puts us within the margin of error is

incredible when we were 22 points behind four weeks ago. Actually the

Chief Executive said there is a contingency plan to maybe move their

office to London but they had no intention of relocating any on

vaguses, and -- operations. If you move your headquarters out of the

country you are named after, it's not great. It's a contingency plan

because of uncertainty. In case you win? ! No, because it's uncertainty.

What we have seen today is an orchestrated campaign of uncertainty

in the Scottish economy from the Prime Minister who himself met the

supermarket chiefs and pressured them into trying to scare Scottish

voters into voting no. I wouldn't go too far down what route you are

going, but let me ask you this; the yes campaign accused the No Campaign

of scaremongering and we remember originally within the project here,

so I take that point, but couldn't you be accused of being relentlessly

optimistic that every problem, even the Governor of the Bank of England,

who really doesn't have a dog in this fight, throws things up. He

doesn't know what he's talking about, there's nothing gets in the

way of the optimism? Negativity and scaremongering is putting it mildly.

Lightning bolts are falling. But in terms of the optimism, I would

rather be a relentless optimist. I would rather have hopes over the

politics of hope. Look what happened to Obama. He campaigned on hope. He

now has the lowest ratings of any President of recent times. I would

much rather, and I genuine believe the politics of hope will always

beat the politics of fear. Speaking of fear. How seriously, Michael, do

you take the Tory MPs in Westminster who said if the yes side wins, Mr

Cameron should resign? Well, it would certainly from David

Cameron's point of view be a calamity. First of all, because for

a Conservative Prime Minister to lose the United Kingdom would be

regarded as calamitous in terms of a Unionist Party and even though the

Conservatives would have an advantage if Scotland left the

union, David Cameron has absolutely set his mind against that. The

second part he has is that crucial decisions have been made, for

example the decision to withdraw the third part of the question about

devolution max from the ballot and those judgments rule out the

question. So I think it would be a very serious matter for him indeed.

How much panic is there in the Labour Party? If you lose this

referendum, you in the end lose 40 seats at least, maybe more, in

Westminster? My line at the start of the program

was, headless chickens and I'm sticking to that. If Scotland gets a

vote, as things stand, in the next general election, and your party

could win on the basis of Scottish votes from people who're about to

become foreigners, how would that work? That's possible. Could you

form a Government on that basis? Let me just say that we have won

elections in England without Scottish votes. We could delay until

2016. But that will not happen. It has been spoken about. The first

year would be taken up with constitutional stuff anyway. You

could not appoint a single Scottish MP to the government, because the

Westminster government's main job would be to draw up its side of the

divorce settlement. Your terms are in the White Paper. You could not

put Scottish MPs in a government which was to go shaking with his

Scottish Government on divorce. It would be like having a wife or

husband on both sides of the divorce settlement. That is true. The House

of Lords made that point. You could either delay the general election

or, as some Tories have said, you could say that reason Scottish MPs

can't vote on English matters. Or they conclude negotiations before

the general election. It might put pressure on them to do that. If you

are a conservative, because of a point you make, you might want to.

When they separated Czechoslovakia into the Czech Republic and Slovakia

it took 31 treaties and 121 Acts of Parliament. If you think this lot

could do that by May, you are on something. Slightly different from

Czechoslovakia. The clear precedent was that Ireland was created and all

these things were sorted out. Charles, was it helpful for your

side to bring Gordon Brown into the campaign? Yes, absolutely. It was

helpful first of all because there has been a long-standing recognition

that these traditional Labour voters were liable to go off and vote for

the yes side of the ticket on this one, and clearly there has been

movement in that direction. Gordon Brown gets a bit of a bad press. He

did deliver for Labour, in terms of votes at the last UK general

election in Scotland, a tremendous result. He put on a lot of support

compared with Tony Blair previously, so he resonates. Most importantly,

looking to the future, the initiative he has come forward with,

and I agree with Michael that it is a bit Alice through the looking

Glass, to say the least, with one week to go, but this initiative is

actually the most clear-sighted thing, and the challenge to all of

us on the reformist side, to get through the finishing tape and

beyond. Good to see you. Enough of this tedious political chat. Show us

some genuine talent. APPLAUSE Amid the sound and fury

surrounding the referendum debate, spare a thought for Douglas

Carswell. The former Tory MP jumped a sinking

ship this summer to join Nigel Farage's merry band of political

pirates in the United Kingdom Independence party. Of course, if

the Scots vote yes next week, he could find himself standing for a

party named after an outdated concept that no longer exists. A bit

like the Chinese commonest party, or Ed Miliband's Labour Party. All the

Scottish Tory party. That is why we have decided to look at the

consequences for all of us and put the United Kingdom in this week's

spotlight. What is grey, cold and more than 300

years old? You probably think the average UKIP member. Close, but it

is the UK, and it could still be divided. If Scotland decides to go

alone, what might become of our shared institutions, the BBC, the

Armed Forces, Team GB? The SNP claim that divorce can be amicable and an

independent Scotland could still be a partner with the rest of Britain.

We continue to be a part of the British Isles, but on the basis of

equality. About how easy will it be to give up 300 years of shared

economy, history and culture? Boris Johnson thinks it will be a

catastrophe and we will lose a fundamental part of our identity. As

the polls come closer and the result harder to call, what would happen to

us if the UK lost the Scots? Would a reduced UK be OK, or will the bonds

that bind us be lost forever? We are joined by Niall Ferguson and Brian

Cox. Welcome to you both. Niall Ferguson, if it is a yes vote,

sum up the impact on the rest of the UK. The economic impact would be

biggest in Scotland but it would be present in England. I don't think

this is mainly about economics. I think this would profoundly alter

not just the flag, but the way in which the world regards this

country. Some people still call it Great Britain. That was a term

invented by a Scotsman, James the sixth, when he became James the

first of England. Great Britain would be dead. You could call it the

United Kingdom of Lesser Britain and Northern Ireland but that would be a

misnomer, so there will be a fundamental reassessment of the

United Kingdom if this happens. From the advantage point of the United

States, where I live, the expats, those who think of themselves as

Scots, is one of bewilderment. We cannot understand why this is

happening, and nor can most Americans. You want independence,

but do you have any fears or regrets that if Scotland goes that way that

the rest of the United Kingdom would be seriously diminished in the eyes

of the world? I think independence is only a beginning. I think it is a

pathway to somewhere else. I think it is a pathway towards English

independence. Everybody says it is a terrible thing. It is not an end

stop, it is the beginning of something. Of course, we are so

linked to England, we will not cut ourselves off just like that. And I

don't think, personally, that independence means separation. I

think it means a new inclusiveness, a whole redesigning of what is going

on. But would we regret that Britain would be diminished? I do think it

would be. Britain has to reassess itself. It is diminished at the

moment because the political system is clearly not working. The three

Amigos have arrived, Martin Short, Steve Martin and Chevy Chase have

come with sombreros and kilts, and they are here to sort us all out.

The patronage and condescension of the last four weeks has been utterly

bewildering, because they haven't understood who we are. As a people.

They simply have not understood it. I find it kind of shocking. Niall

Ferguson. I wonder whether those who are planning to vote yes understand

properly who we are as a people. It seems one of the confusions is to

think only in terms of the people who live in Scotland. Most people

who regard themselves as Scots do not live in Scotland. The number of

expats fastly exceeds the 5 million people who live here. And those who

live in Scotland will be affected. Not just those people. This is where

I think Brian is unrealistic. Anybody who has been through a

divorce knows that they are rarely amicable. It is hardly likely the

English will say, that is OK, good luck, go and have your nice

Scandinavian Scotland. Don't worry about the debt, have the pound, no

problem. The problems will begin with the yes vote if it happens. It

will be acrimonious and protracted, and for those of us who consider

ourselves Scots, in Britain, in the United Kingdom, we do not see a

conflict between those identities but see them as reinforcing. This

means statelessness. I will no longer feel any -- no longer feel

able to feel British. I have remained a British citizen. But also

an American citizen. No, I work there but I am still able to

citizen. If it is a yes vote, I will apply for US citizenship that day.

And I went the alone. -- I will not be alone. I am an expat and I

believe in an independent Scotland. Yesterday, I spent time in Dundee

and I have seen people who are disenfranchised, who have fallen

through the net, the grassroots who have been bewildered for the last 30

years. In Dundee, in the last two and a half weeks, over 7000 people

have gone back on the social register. And that has been unheard

of. Those people have been off the social register since Margaret

Thatcher's poll tax. I think that is astonishing. The people I met

yesterday are saying, we just want something that is our own, something

we can actually take part in, be responsible for, because we have

been treated like children for so long, that we want that. Michael, it

is clear that the rest of the UK has really just closed its eyes and

hoped that this goes away. If we wake up, and I will not because I

will be up all night doing the programme. The drugs you gave me

will help! And I can get you more. I know that because you Hollywood

chaps are big on these things. The contingency planning will have to

have a standing start on the morning of the 19th. I imagine officials in

Scotland and London have been working on contingency plans,

because that is what civil servants are for. There are lots of things I

do not know yet about what the Scottish attitude would be after

independence. Niall Ferguson made the point that it was called Great

Britain a century before the union of the two parliaments. It is

perfectly obvious that you could have this -- the name Great Britain

without the parliaments being united. I do not know what the

attitude would be to the Queen. Whether the Queen would be, as the

Queen of Canada is, or whether she would continue as the Queen of the

United Kingdom. Those are different relationships with the monarchy. I

don't even know yet that the separation of the parliaments means

the end of the United Kingdom. It certainly does not necessarily mean

the end of Great Britain. There are all sorts of things that are not yet

known. However, England is fastly bigger than Scotland, -- much bigger

than Scotland. So it is a bigger experiment for Scotland. It may be

bigger but it is not as good. Whatever. That told him. Losing a

hand is less traumatic than losing the body attached to it. I was

amazed at Professor Ferguson's argument that it is unfair on

expats. Whatever you think, this is about people that live in Scotland

and their future. People who have gone overseas and clearly are doing

very well are not really in a position to tell Scottish residents

what they should do. The point about Scottish identity is that it has not

been a narrow parochialism. We have been a global people. That is what

we are sacrificing, going down a route that is foreign to Scottish

tradition, whatever you residents of Scotland may say. That is your lot.

Thanks to both of you. For us, there is still half a bottle left in

Diane's minibar, so the after party starts now. How did she get the

presidential suite gesture Marco, it is in the bed-and-breakfast! Bags to

everybody for coming out tonight. God knows what you were thinking.

And thank you too many viewers who are still awake and watching. We

will be back with our new series in two weeks, when we could be living

in a very, very different country, or not. Good night. Don't let the

referendum bite.