28/04/2016 This Week

British policing in the dock. They failed in the line of Jude T.

Talk-show host held the seaport is my Shelagh Fogarty tells us why it

could be some time before our police forces achieve the straight and

narrow. We talk of justice for the 96, but I see no evidence yet that a

cover-up on the scale of Hillsborough could not happen again

tomorrow. Does government policy need urgent

care? We forked out a fortune for a private consultation with Anne

McElvoy. Doctors and school academies were on the Westminster

ward round this week and moving up the Parliamentary emergency list.

And Big Ben is to shut up shop for urgent repairs. Should Parliament

follow suit? Suzannah Lipscomb tells us why our seats of power need more

than a bit of first aid. A venerable old thing, representing the very

best of British politics. We should preserve it for ever. I speak, of

course, of this Week on BBC One. Welcome to This Week,

where you find us in lockdown, doors barred, windows shuttered,

because politicians have turned belligerent and it's no longer safe

to venture outside the studio. Only a few hours ago,

in this very building, two leading Labour lights engaged

in a verbal slanging match that came If that's how they treat each other,

there's no telling what they might It's scary when law and order

is on the brink of breakdown and, as always seems to be the case

when you most need them, there were no police around

to stop the altercation. Not even a Hillsborough plod to make

up what he was seeing. Now, out in the real world,

doctors are on strike, the economy is slowing,

unemployment is rising again, the steel industry is on its knees

and 11,000 BHS workers are about to lose their jobs

through no fault of their own. But we've spent most of the day

arguing about whether Hitler was really a closet Zionist,

all because Ken Livingstone decided to pour petrol on what was already

a conflagration by touring the studios, including this one,

in defence of some loony-tune tweets from a rookie Labour MP with daft

views about where Israel And his old mate and leader,

Jezza, suspended him for his pains, just to make sure the news tonight

was dominated by nothing else. Sometimes you wonder if a cunning

cabal of evil Tories aren't secretly Speaking of those with every

reason to feel unwanted and who nobody would want to pull,

I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two cultural icons

who would never dream Think of them as the

Jay Z and Beyonce of I speak, of course,

of #manontheleft Alan 'AJ' Johnson. And #sadmanonatrain Michael

'with the good hair' Portillo. Your moment of the week? We are

going to discuss Hillsborough shortly but one thing that occurred

to me is that here we are, 27 years after the event, at possibly the

beginning of a process of justice. Many of the families have died in

the interval. Some of the teenagers who were crushed would be

grandparents by now. We have not heard the Chilcot Inquiry yet on a

war that occurred in 2003. It takes us a generation to build a runway,

to build a railway line. We are looking at having an enquiry into

historic child abuse which is planned to take five years. Goodness

knows how many years it will take. There is something completely

dysfunctional in this country about how long these things take. I think

it makes us a laughing stock internationally. Interesting. Frank

Field made a speech on Tuesday, famous Labour MP. He said about the

Labour Party that being pro-European and campaigning to stay in the EU

was writing the second longest suicide note in history. His

reference was to the longest suicide note, our manifesto of 1983,

famously called the longest suicide note in history. The reason why it

was an uncharacteristically foolish thing to say is that our 1983

manifesto was the only time we ever stood on a platform of leaving the

European Union. I had not connected. That is, of course, what he wants to

do. I had not spotted that. Always here to help you. It is not often I

learn anything from your moments and I did tonight.

Now, after a long 27 years, a jury this week found what had

been long suspected - that the 96 victims

of the Hillsborough disaster were unlawfully killed

and that the Chief Superintendent at the time was responsible for

Justice for the 96 was proclaimed across Liverpool and the solidarity

of the ordinary families who'd fought for so long and with such

tenacity against a system and institutions seemingly designed

to thwart them gave new meaning to their club's anthem,

But justice is far from complete and criminal investigations are now

underway, one on the run up to the tragedy, the other

The actions of the South Yorkshire Police are at the centre of both,

and that force's behaviour has only added to the public's increasing

loss of confidence in the police in general across the country,

Here's proud Scouser and LBC presenter Shelagh Fogarty

The headlines around Hillsborough this week have screamed "Justice,

But it seems to me that there was, yes, a moral justice

for the families this week, but in no way criminal justice.

The lies by the police, the cover-up by the police,

has left me and others wondering what exactly is wrong

Three members of my family are police officers,

so I know that there are good, decent people in the police.

But Hillsborough isn't the only reason why public trust

Whenever I talk about public trust in the police on my radio show,

Young black men tell me they don't trust the police.

Black mothers tell me that they train their sons to handle

And police officers who ring tell me it is rotten at the top.

Even the former Attorney General Dominic Grieve said that there

is an irony in the fact that we call ourselves a civilised society

but Hillsborough isn't the only example of institutional cover-up.

The Stephen Lawrence murder investigation, Operation Elveden,

the Westminster paedophile ring, and the investigations

The police are meant to serve you and me,

But damning report after damning report seems to suggest that

very little has changed since the miners' strike.

Meanwhile, the Home Secretary is pushing for more powers to allow

police to poke their noses into our private lives.

Justice for the 96 sounds very sweet indeed.

But I don't see any evidence yet to suggest that a cover-up

like the one seen at Hillsborough couldn't happen again.

From the Courthouse Hotel Bar prison cells to our very

own crimes against television here on This Week,

Alan Johnson, former Home Secretary, you heard the list. Not just

Hillsborough, although that is one of the most huge, but the failure to

confront sex slavery in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford, the Stephen

Lawrence case, operation Midland and supposedly BIP child abuse, Jimmy

Savile, plebgate, Ian Tomlinson, unlawfully killed at AG 20 demo,

ludicrous undercover operations against various green groups. What

is going on with the police? The question is, is this still the case?

We are talking about historic incidents. Tomlinson was 2008, much

more recent. Have the police changed? I like to think they have.

There is a different approach. If you look at the television dramas,

life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes, that was what the police were like,

no doubt about it. Has it reformed sufficiently for us to believe

something like Hillsborough could not happen again? I think that is

the big question, and it is certainly a question that those

families have got the truth. Theresa May was asked about this in

Parliament and she put a lot of store, and she has been tremendous

on this, she put a lot of store on the code of ethics being produced

for police to follow. I felt there was a different atmosphere from the

kind of police forces I remember in the past. I was brought up in

Notting Hill. Black kids on the street of Notting Hill would not

give you any sustenance that the police were any thing other than

enemies. Police have tried hard to recruit black officers, to get rid

of the racism and sexism that was there, and they're in other parts of

society at the time, too. They did not seem to try hard in Rotherham or

Rochdale. We are talking about one police force. This is the line we

always here, that they have learned the lessons and are not like that

any more. Actually, in this most recent inquest the police were still

not telling the truth about what happened. That was the point I was

going to make. I don't doubt some of those changes have come in. I have

two brothers and a sister-in-law who are police officers. I know how they

operate, how intelligently they operate as individual officers. But

in the inquest, the lies were peddled out again, almost to be

tested to exhaustion. Still people have said to me since Jews do, yes,

but... What more do you want? They have been tested to exhaustion and

were rolled out recently. Has there been a breakdown in confidence or

trust in the police? I think there has certainly been a sharp

reduction. I have experienced it myself. I was part of a generation

of Conservative politicians who would say to the public, we trust

the police, they are at the forefront of the fight against

crime. That has changed almost beyond recognition. On too many

occasions it seemed that lying was the first response of the police. I

think I should also broaden the issue and say that I don't think the

National Health Service is very different. Time and again there is a

constituency member who would try to enquire into something that had

happened in hospital and the doors would close, the Solidarity would be

there, there would be denial even that the person had been a patient.

Or else you try investigating things that have happened in army barracks,

and again the ranks close. That also involved police. To some extent. I

think there is a misplaced institutional loyalty. In the case

of the police what is clear, and less clear in the case of the Army,

is that the lying is set by example from the top. You are right to say

Theresa May has been excellent on this, but for me the most important

voice in the Commons on Wednesday was actually Dominic Grieve, when he

said, shortly after Theresa May and Andy Burnham had their exchange, he

said we ourselves, meaning parliament, we ourselves and the

institutions meant to protect and serve the public all need to go into

a period of self examination. I thought that was the most mature...

The former Tory Attorney General. The person who applied to have the

original verdicts of Hillsborough overturned when the panel reported

back. I thought that was the most important statement in the Commons.

Isn't it also a case of demonising groups of people who the police, the

army or the authorities think do not have the ability to respond?

Football fans at that time were all thought of as being fair game.

Whether it is the poorest in our community, racial minorities, there

was a feeling by authority that these people who do not have a voice

and can't get back at us, they would take a different attitude if there

were people involved who were more assertive, powerful, had more money

to pursue them through the courts. May I say something about people

having a voice? I worked at BBC Merseyside on the day that

Hillsborough happened in on the night of the tragedy I was placed on

reception to be there when people came in. The fans came from the

train stations, coach stations and their own cars into radio

Merseyside, the Liverpool Echo, because they knew they were being

lied about and they knew they did not have a voice. They came to their

local radio stations to get a voice and they did get a voice that way.

But without local journalists actually staying with them, they

would not have had that voice. What would police reform look like?

If their morale is bad, is there not a need for a proper professional

officer class in the police in this country? That's what's getting

introduced by the Tom Windsor report. They tried it in the 30s

then abandoned it. It's accountability isn't it and there

are different levels that have been introduced and they have changed

frequently. Now the IPCC have come under so some fire, I think they are

going to change again and it's finding the right level of

accountability so that people can be assured that there is a proper

procedure. It's the same actually with the NHS. There are various

groups. People come to their MP because the system which is now I

think PALS just doesn't work. It's hard to hold people accountable when

the former cabal and lie. Is there not a case for police reform in this

country? Yes, but I very much sympathise with your question about

what that night look like. Having had some experience in the Armed

Forces, the Armed Forces on the whole have a pretty good model

therefore I think probably that should be tried in the case of the

police. I suppose there is a genuine problem here which is, you are

trying to train people to believe that they can absolutely rely on the

person next to them, whether you are talking about a policeman or soldier

or even a nurse or a doctor. How you make that compatible with the belief

that nonetheless those people will tell the truth about you, if you

have made a mistake or a bad decision, I mean I can see there is

a genuine dilemma there, but clearly at the moment that has been resolved

in a very unsatisfactory way. A final thought from you, Shelagh? I

thought it was interesting when you said is part of the top of the class

officer, I think class might be part of this. What you need rising to the

top of the police force is, I'm not promoting my own family, I'm saying

you need decent, intelligent men or women whatever their educational

background. I didn't mean social background? I know, I know what you

meant but that is part of it. One of the police officers who rang me on

Tuesday, on the day of the actual findings of the inquest, who is a

serving police officer in Essex police force, said to me, the

promotion system stinks, good decent officers steer clear of it. That's

what needs to change. They need to stop steering clear of it. Thank you

for being with us. Thank you. Now, it's late - Tom Daley's Olympic

budgie smugglers late. So let's hope Tom didn't catch

a cold and go to bed early. Because waiting in the wings,

keeping us all up late, broadcaster and historian,

Suzannah Lipscomb is here. To tell us why buildings matter in

the world of power and politics. And if you think your views matter,

you couldn't be more wrong, as we continue to ignore

all your idiotic comments on The Twitter, The Fleecebook

and Gordon Brown's Now, when the This Week

studio got a makeover, Being incredibly cool, I suggested

a hipster vibe, of course, bare filament light bulbs,

cracked subway tiles, jam jars, the "full beard",

as some East Londoners might say. But according to Michael,

who knows a thing or two about fancy interior design, that

look was already passe, and lucky for you that his singular

vision won the day. And that explains why we sit here

before you in the neon pink glow of a budget recreation of 1980s

Tom Cruise movie Cocktail. So next time, it's my turn and I've

decided to get my own Here's The Economist magazine's

Anne McElvoy with her refurbished Parliament announced a major

refurbishment of Big Ben this week, and the chaps in the studio

were on the sofa talking about it back when it was first

being installed in 1859. So the producers thought

I could renovate their This Week broom cupboard, or studio

as they like to call it, and sent me to get an NVQ

in construction studies. Theresa May, the Home Secretary,

isn't usually one for But when she gave a speech this

week nailing her support for the EU Remain cause,

she added a surprise extension, slating the European

Court of Human Rights. The ECHR can bind the hands

of Parliament, adds nothing to our prosperity, makes us less

secure by preventing the deportation of dangerous foreign nationals,

and does nothing to change the attitudes of governments

like Russia's when it So regardless of the EU

referendum, my view is this - if we want to reform human rights

laws in this country, it isn't the EU we should leave

by the ECHR and the jurisdiction There had been rumours of a possible

watering down of the Government's school academy plans,

and Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn pressed David Cameron

on whether a U-turn was becoming It has been reported

that the Government is considering allowing good local

authorities to form Ironically, this would actually give

local authorities more responsibility for running schools

than they have now. As I said last week -

and it is good, I like repeats on television and I'm happy to have

them in the House as well - as I said last week,

outstanding schools have nothing to fear from becoming academies,

and indeed have a lot to gain. And just because a school

is outstanding or good doesn't mean Last ditch attempts in Parliament

this week to avert a junior doctors' Many of them stopped providing

emergency care, a first in the NHS. And Labour's Dennis Skinner couldn't

resist having a dig at the Health Secretary's poorly

constructed solutions. He could start negotiations today,

wipe that smirk off his face, get But instead he comes

in to here to try and blame the opposition for

what is taking place. The junior doctors' committee

of the BMA were not willing to have those constructive discussions,

which is why we face the tragic And I hope he recognises,

when he says it takes two sides, that we do need a counterparty

we can have sensible negotiations with, and we haven't had

that this time. But Labour had trouble, too,

forced to suspend backbencher Naz Shah over claims she had made

anti-Semitic comments I accept and understand

that the words I used caused upset and hurt to the Jewish community

and I deeply regret that. As an MP, I will do everything

in my power to build relations between Muslims, Jews and people

of different faiths and none. I truly regret what I did

and I hope, I sincerely hope, that this house will accept

my profound apology. You Nazi apologist,

rewriting history. Some may have thought that

would have drawn a line Former London Mayor Ken Livingstone

defended Naz Shah in a radio interview today, and ventured

unwisely into historical analysis, adding that Hitler was supporting

Zionism before he went mad and ended His remarks then prompted these

extraordinary scenes on a staircase

in Westminster. Factually wrong, factually

wrong racist remarks. That was the policy

they ran on in '32. To deport all the Jews

of Germany to Israel. Mr Livingstone has since been

suspended from the party It's been a week of carefully

constructed votes and propositions at Westminster, but this time

in a week the political landscape could look very different,

as the public gets to have its say In local council elections in

England. The Mayor of London

and London Assembly. And the Police and Crime

Commissioner elections. Now, what else might need a little

repair and restoration to stop Anne McElvoy contravening all health

and safety regulations there. And we're joined in the studio

by the lovely Miranda Green. And by the man who Angus Robertson

has every reason to be nervous of "on manoeuvres" in Westminster

and on our sofa tonight, ambitious SNP superstar, John

Nicolson. Alan Johnson, should Ken Livingstone

remain in the Labour Party? It's certainly true there is no Labour

problem that the arrival of Ken Livingstone can't make worse. I

wouldn't go as far as chucking anyone out of the Labour Party just

now. I've got a feeling Naz Shah is the only one that emerges with

credit because her apology was fullsome, her local synagogue

tweeted on it. She was repentent. Once she got rumbled? ! She

described the remark as anti-Semitic then Ken says it wasn't so he didn't

help the situation at all, I don't know why he just didn't refuse the

opportunities to go on and say something. Jeremy Corbyn hasn't

suspended her either. Has he been half hearted or slow in his response

to these cases of anti-Semitism in your party? Well, that might be the

worst accusation you could throw at him that he was slow in responding.

No-one could suggest he's anti-Semitic and no-one can suggest

our party is, which is why dealing with this quickly, I take your

point, has to be done soon. She herself realised, has Shah that

stepping down as PPS wasn't good enough, it has to go further -- Naz

Shah. She's done that. Mr Corbyn denies there is a crisis. Is there

one? You have been in politics a long time. If you question any

leader and say, is this a crisis, you are unlikely to get the answer

yes. But is it? I hope not. There is an awful lot of these cases coming.

When I started in journalism, the anti-Semitism was largely confined

to the hard right, even including parts of the Conservative Party.

Today, it seems to be coming from a wing of your party. We are not an

anti-Semitic party. That's not what I said. The Conservatives were not

an anti-Semitic party but had people in their right-wing. Your party

seems to have taken over this mantle. There was a problem at

Oxford in the Labour club. We have never been allowed to see that

report. She hasn't completed the report. There was an original report

done by the Labour students which was then suppressed in a bigger and

more overarching report was put in its place? I think this situation

was being dealt with reasonably and then in comes Ken Livingstone and

stirs it up. What do you think? I think there's a problem on the left

with a sort of anti- Western instinct. This is easily sort of

seen in parallel with an anti-Israeli rhetoric and then,

obviously, that can slide over into anti-Semitism and it happens far too

frequently and then a lot of discussions about Israel and the

legitimate criticisms of Israel are carried on in a terrible A

historical way without appreciating why the state of Israel was created.

You had a Liberal Democrat MP who made outrageous statements? I agree.

Made in a Parliamentary speech. Would you say the Liberal Democrats

are anti-Semitic? He should have been got rid of. He was on the

suspended. A peer who tried to justify terrorism. He had the whip

withdrawn but there should be zero tolerance for it because it slides

over to the origin of violence. Should Ken Livingstone be removed

from the Labour Party? He's certainly doing the Labour Party

enormous damage. It struck me, listening to that interview, that it

was the worst crushing pub bore with that semi-informed but utterly

self-confident description of German history. That thing that he said

about after Hitler went mad, as if there was a previous rational

Hitler, you know, maybe the one that wrote... He obviously wasn't mad

when he wrote that? No, completely rational. I mean, it was just, as we

say in Scotland, Havering and I have to say... You are Havering a bit too

because you haven't answered my question. Should he be thrown out.

That is a matter for the Labour Party. I'm asking you? I would be

uncomfortable having him in the party and I think one of the

problems with Jeremy Corbyn whom I'm sure is a very nice man is, he's so

indecisive and, there was a great metaphor I thought for his

leadership today which is, he saw the cameras coming and swerved to

try to avoid them. Instead of going straight up to the camera, giving a

clear well considered response, he ran away for a couple of hours. It

just makes him seem uncertain and directionless. Why is this

anti-Semitism finding more on the left -- found more on the left than

its traditional place on the right? I could not swear there was none on

the right. The recent cases have been on the left. The new element

has been a development in the Labour Party in particular to Israeli

policy. One understands why many people object to Israeli policy.

Many Israelis object to Israeli policy. But I do not know how this

has crossed over into something that looks like anti-Semitism. To me, it

is extraordinary, particularly as a London politician, as I was for a

long time. There was a terrific solid Jewish Labour support, and a

fantastic amount of Jewish Labour money. It is all very well to say

that Jeremy Corbyn, if you ask any leader he will say there is no

crisis. What struck me was that Jeremy Corbyn really looked as if he

thought there was not a crisis, as though it had not occurred to him

that there was. Clearly, not only the reputation of the Labour Party,

but the damage to its electorate and the damage to its finances, just

before a whole series of elections. Coming onto the doctors' strike. You

have been Health Secretary. Where is it going? In one sense, I sympathise

with Jeremy Hunt. It is difficult dealing with the BMA. You want to

describe the BMA as Scargill with a stethoscope. Not a bad line! Not the

union, the person I was dealing with, who became a good friend of

mine. I was negotiating with him. There was a time in this dispute

where I think there could have been a settlement. Doctor Dan Poulter,

who was a junior minister who served under Jeremy Hunt, was part of the

consensus to say there is a way out of this that allows both sides to

come out. Jeremy Hunt was foolish to reject that. Perhaps foolish not to

getting gauged in developing a consensus somewhere along the line.

He is now in a terrible situation and the junior doctors are in a

terrible situation. I know from experience, because I was a union

leader, that once you take the strike, as opposed to threatening

it, in a way, all bets are off. He wants a fight, doesn't he? That is

clear. Doctor Philippa Whitford, our health spokesperson, who knows

something about this because she is a breast cancer surgeon and we are

not having these fights in Scotland with junior doctors. She joined a

Conservative and Labour people in sending the letter to him. It was

disappointing that he responded with a dismissive tweet. Is there not a

grave danger to your party on May the 5th that you do not win every

seat? I don't know what is going to happen. Yes, you do. I am

contractually obliged to say we are taking nothing for granted. That is

the phrase I have to use. Who is going to come second? I am not

meeting many Labour voters on the doorsteps. Those that I talked to

quite often say, I am so depressed about the party that I am going to

abstain. I think the huge shift from the Labour Party to the SNP happened

at the time of last year's general election. That has definitely

remained. Is this going to be the beginning of the Lib Dem fightback?

One years a short time for the start of a generational recovery. I just

said the beginning. It would nice -- it would be nice to see some green

shoots. Does Tim Farron have any cut through? It ought to be the case

that with the Conservative Party tearing itself to pieces over Europe

and Labour having many embarrassing days, that there was a Lib Dem voice

of reason. You have been written out of the script. I think that is true.

They say that in individual council by-elections they are starting to

win back territory they held before. It is a long road. Thank you, both.

Now, every student of British politics knows where true power

resides in this country - here in the This Week studio,

the real Palace of Westminster, cradle of our democracy,

This Week is the esteemed forum in which men, women,

and Michael Portillo gather together to debate, argue, and decide

the fate of nations and people whilst Joey Essex waits in the wings

And that's why we're so admired all around the world and why we're

putting "seats of power" in this week's Spotlight.

It was announced this week that Big Ben's bongs will soon fall

silent when a three-year conservation project

It's a world-famous seat of power and symbol of democracy,

but to preserve a historic building, maybe you've got to

And if the Elisabeth Tower needs work, how about the rest

It looks like MPs and peers may have to clear out while multi-billion

Although the Prime Minister is said to favour staying put.

The great seats of power might be built to last

but there is no doubting the care and attention they require.

So hard luck if you wanted a Twelfie in front of the US Capitol Building,

whose dome has been hidden behind scaffolding since 2014.

Historian Suzannah Lipscomb understands the challenges

She's been a consultant to the historic Royal palaces.

Time is certainly ticking for the Palace of Westminster.

Could it soon become history, and would a change

of location breathe new life into an old democratic institution?

Suzannah Lipscomb joins us. Welcome. Thank you. It is important, is not,

for a seat of power to emanate a certain gravitas? I think so.

Historically, we have had churches built to the glory of God, or even a

football stadium built to reflect the grandeur of the game. It keep

people out as well as keeping them in. I think there is a sense that

actually of course you want the houses of Parliament to reflect the

history. Everything that has happened there, on that very spot.

You sense it when you walk through Westminster Hall. Absolutely. The

Americans thought when they were building their parliament that it

needed gravitas. They gave it roman grandeur. When they were rebuilding

the houses of parliament in the 19th century there was a choice between

going with a classical look, which was very fashionable, or going with

the perpendicular Gothic. That decision was made partly because

they were harking back to the fact that there had been parliament

meeting there since the 13th century. We all know it is 19th

century, but a tourist could mistake it for a medieval building, which is

what it represents, I suppose. They may have to get out to do the

renovations, but that is to be temporary. You would be against

moving the building altogether, turning it into a museum? Gosh. It

does seem like it would make sense. It makes sense for them to go out in

order to have the work done at a lower cost than keeping members of

Parliament in the building whilst work is going on, and being good

stewards of taxpayers' money, because it will run to billions, but

I think there is something about if you change the space they operate

in, there will be consequences. And some of those might be positive. It

might be that you create a more inclusive space. The way that the

Scottish and Welsh parliaments are more in the round, rather than the

adversarial Commons. Exactly, which may not be up-to-date with current

politics. But on the other hand, this is not necessarily rational,

but there is something about new buildings that sometimes feels

soulless, perhaps because they have not had lots of souls in them. In a

historic building, you have a sense that the veil between the past and

present feels then, and somehow embedded in the stonework is the

memory of the place, and the weightiness. Members of Parliament,

who know that these decisions have been made in this space... I am

looking at former numbers of Parliament. They have a sense of the

responsibility, of the decisions made. If you had a federal system

you could keep Parliament across the road as the UK Parliament and move

the English Parliament to the north. You could move it to Hull. We did

leave Parliament because the chamber was bombed in the Second World War

and they went to church house. Some of Churchill's momentous speeches

were made there. So I am all for leaving temporarily, if that is what

it needs to fix it. It would be ridiculous to move out permanently.

The building is not that old. Not much older than the US Congress.

Westminster Hall is. The firefighters in the war left the

chamber to burn to save the medieval hall. With the amazing wood and

beams. You would stay in the House of Commons. Yes, for all the reasons

we have heard. I felt that connection with great parliamentary

history. Even the parliamentary history that preceded that set of

buildings, because before that there were other buildings. But on a

temporary basis we have nothing to fear if Parliament has to move out.

No wonder calls that Churchill made those stirring speeches in Church

house, but he did. -- no one recalls. You have nothing to plug,

which is a first. That's your lot for

tonight folks and for us. Because we leave you tonight

with yesterday's historic scenes in Liverpool, when red roses,

flowers and candles were laid in memory, and the crowds paid

a typically vocal tribute to the 96 victims of the Hillsborough tragedy

and to the ordinary families, friends and supporters who kept

the campaign for justice and vindication alive

for a generation, even when it seemed all was arraigned

against them, and their only ally was their own burning

desire for the truth. # War crimes, walk on, with hope in

your heart # And you will never walk alone