Browse content similar to 08/12/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight on this Week, Dermot Myrna Hann charts Britain's perilous | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
voyage to the forbidden planet known as Brexit. Well, I have been boldly | :00:47. | :01:00. | |
going where no man has gone before. Space station Westminster, a | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
fact-finding mission. I will be reporting back to the mothership. If | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
you set down on this planet, I cannot be answerable for the safety | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
of your ship or your crew. Meanwhile, as Rome burns, is the | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
European project on its last legs? Hot lot lawyer -- hotshot lawyer and | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
wife of Nick Clegg flies the flag for the EU. Britain may have turned | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
its back on Europe that I don't think other countries will follow | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
suit. It is better to be in Europe than outside looking in. | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
And what planet has Peter Doherty been on for these past few years? I | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
know why I am here. You asked me to say why I am here. No, I don't know | :01:49. | :02:00. | |
why I am here. This Week. The most provocative and unusual adventure | :02:01. | :02:00. | |
film you have ever seen. Not. And we begin with the heartwarming | :02:01. | :02:10. | |
news that, thanks to its current Brexit appeal in the Supreme Court, | :02:11. | :02:16. | |
the government has, at a stroke, reduced unemployment among | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
lawyers to precisely zero. Indeed, there's now a national | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
shortage, with a score and more of barristers involved | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
in the proceedings, plus all their solicitors, juniors, | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
paralegals and legally trained bag carriers crammed | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
into overspill rooms. Yes, the government's appeal | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
against giving parliament a pivotal role in the Brexit process has | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
turned out to be a veritable dripping roast for the legal | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
profession, which means there'll be much toasting with vintage wines | :02:48. | :02:49. | |
in Tuscan villas this Christmas. The lawyers inside the court have | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
outnumbered the protestors outside by about ten to one, | :02:56. | :02:57. | |
and even the demonstrators turned up dressed as lawyers, | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
no doubt hoping to trouser a few quid in the general spraying | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
around of legal fees. Much of which, dear taxpayer, | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
you are paying for. So you may wonder why the Government | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
is going to all your expense when, as this week demonstrated, | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
it clearly has majority in the Commons for legislation | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
to trigger the Brexit process, which rather makes the Supreme | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
Court shenanegins moot. But don't forget that the Government | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
and the Commons are also awash with lawyers and the legal | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
profession knows how After all, they've known each other | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
since public school and Oxbridge. So think of it as just jobs | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
for the boys and it is, Speaking of those likely | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
to remain under-employed even in a booming economy, | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two people who deserve to be | :03:50. | :03:51. | |
in the dock of public opinion. Think of them as the Rumpole | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
and Rumpolette of late night TV. I speak, of course, of Liz | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
#fourpercent Kendall Your moment of the week? The vote in | :03:59. | :04:16. | |
the Commons on Wednesday on Brexit. It was moving for me because I was | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
battling away inside the cabinet to make sure we did not join the euro, | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
and against the showing an agreement, always in a minority, | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
described as a bustard by the Prime Minister at the time. And then I | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
lived to see David Cameron, backed by William Hague, Kenneth Clarke and | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
Michael Heseltine and Theresa May. And at last I see the House of | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
Commons voting for, guess what, Brexit, by a huge majority. So it | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
was really a moving moment for me. Were you emotional? I was. I am. | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
Your moment? Number Ten is saying the Foreign Secretary's views on | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
Saudi Arabia are not Government policy. Why would you expect that? | :05:04. | :05:11. | |
It was not just a slap down, but a knee capping. The problem is not | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
just that no one can believe that what the Foreign Secretary says is | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
the Government's position, the real risk is about Theresa May's judgment | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
in appointing him in the first place. We will come back to that | :05:24. | :05:25. | |
later. The European Union and its | :05:26. | :05:26. | |
forerunners were meant to bring Europeans together | :05:27. | :05:28. | |
in peace and prosperity. When Britain voted to remain | :05:29. | :05:30. | |
in the Common Market in 1975, Europe was growing fast, | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
forward-looking and enjoying But in recent years the Eurozone | :05:36. | :05:36. | |
in particular has become synonymous with sclerosis, | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
mass unemployment, poverty in Greece, growing resentment | :05:41. | :05:42. | |
against Germany and a real struggle to keep the show on the road, | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
which might explain why we didn't So is Brexit the beginning | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
of the end for the EU or just a case of eurosceptic | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
British exceptionalism. Here's Miriam Gonzalez Durantez | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
with her take of the week. The EU was founded | :05:59. | :06:21. | |
after World War II. The common wisdom was that it would | :06:22. | :06:23. | |
bring lasting peace and prosperity. Now, some claim that we are at | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
a crucial point in EU history and that its very | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
existence is threatened. The EU may need reform, | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
but so do most countries The EU is one of the strongest | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
economic areas in the world. With more than 440 | :06:39. | :06:48. | |
million consumers, it is also one of the biggest | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
integrated markets. It has maintained prosperity | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
while maintaining also a commitment to democracy, | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
human rights and the rule of law. The economic crisis of 2008 | :06:58. | :07:09. | |
is still unresolved, And when compared with countries | :07:10. | :07:10. | |
that have used monetary policy at will, things actually do not | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
look so bad. Growth in the UK is roughly in line | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
with the average in the EU, and public debt in the UK | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
is actually higher than in nine From Russia to the Middle East, | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
the EU faces many security threats, but as Baltic countries understand | :07:28. | :07:37. | |
well, it is easier to confront those threats when you have safety | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
in numbers under the EU Italy faces political turmoil, | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
but with 65 governments in the last 75 years, | :07:44. | :08:04. | |
they have experience in dealing with political uncertainty | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
without rocking the boat. In Austria, people have chosen | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
the continuity of the EU over And in France, Le Pen | :08:16. | :08:17. | |
is struggling to get funding Except for Greece, none | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
of the European populists have And unlike in the UK, | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
they are not backed by anti-European vested interests, media | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
owners and millionaires. So far, only Britain has | :08:34. | :08:43. | |
closed the door on the EU. Some think other countries | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
will follow suit. Our thanks to Bishopsgate Institute | :08:47. | :08:48. | |
for allowing us to film in their beautiful library | :08:49. | :08:57. | |
in the heart of the city of London. Miriam joins us now. Welcome to the | :08:58. | :09:14. | |
programme. Is she right that the EU is not finished? I don't know. I | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
think the euro is the key. I fear that whether the euro survives or | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
collapses, either one is a catastrophe. If the euro is | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
maintained, countries like Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal and Ireland | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
will continue to suffer, particularly the young people. Youth | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
unemployment has been the characteristic. It is an irony that | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
young people are supposed to support the European Union. They are the | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
ones devastated by the creation of the euro, and entirely unsuitable | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
organisation because it has admitted countries that were not equipped to | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
be in the euro. If they try to dismantle the euro by expelling | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
Greece and other countries who should not be there, the feeling | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
will be that the pack of cards is going to collapse. So either route | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
that the European Union takes over the euro leads to disaster. Although | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
Miriam was sanguine about the economy of the European Union, it is | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
pretty much stuck in the doldrums. And most countries have seen long | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
periods in which most of their people have seen no increase in | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
living standards. That is one of the reasons why we see, you know, a | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
strong reaction, particularly in the referendum in Italy. I think Miriam | :10:22. | :10:31. | |
is right that Europe, the EU and the eurozone will continue. I think | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
other countries, France and Germany, have always had a stronger mashed or | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
interest in the first place to be in the EU, and so did the Eastern | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
European countries that came in. But there is a real risk of complacency, | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
and unless Europe reforms, particularly on the economy, to | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
tackle unemployment, stagnating wages, and to make sure that growth | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
is more widely shared, the risk is they will still be vulnerable to | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
economic shocks, and the political risks of the rising populism, | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
whether from the right or the left, despite the fact those populists do | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
not have the answers to the long-term problems people face. | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
Would you concede that for a growing number of Europeans the EU and the | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
eurozone has been an increasing disappointment? I think the EU in | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
general and in particular requires reform. There is a risk of | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
complacency in the EU, there is a risk of complacency in this country. | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
It is true there may be issues with Europe, and we have all seen, but it | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
is also true that countries like mine, like Portugal, like Italy, | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
they would not have done the economic reforms they have had to do | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
if it had not been because of the pressure from Brussels. I have to | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
say that when you speak about unemployment, it is easy to speak | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
about unemployment, but it is comparing apples with oranges. The | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
unemployment of the south of Europe translates into precarious | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
employment here in the UK, simply because the Labour protection is | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
much higher in continental Europe than here. So the figures on | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
unemployment do not really compare. Finally, it seems to me that when | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
you speak, Michael, about the position of youth in relation to the | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
Italian referendum, the youth generally in Europe are | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
pro-European. It is very symbolic who is ready pushing for the project | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
is still the young people, as we saw here, by the way. And in Italy, you | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
cannot really say that vote was against Europe. You had people | :12:39. | :12:46. | |
against Renzi. It is not my case to argue today that the European Union | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
is going to collapse. My case is to argue that the European Union has | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
taken a very bad turn in establishing the euro, that it is | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
impoverishing the population, that it is increasing immigration and | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
emigration, both of which are at unsustainable levels. That it is one | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
of the things that has set the British people against Europe. But I | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
do agree that there is a fundamental difference between the British | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
attitude... There is British exceptionalism. Between the British | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
attitude and the attitude of other countries. Knowing Spain a bit, even | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
having a Spanish passport, I would say there is no chance of Spain | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
wanting to leave the European Union. They are wedded to the idea of | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
belonging. After decades of isolation, they want to sit at the | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
table alongside other countries. The countries of continental Europe lost | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
their democracy and institutions during World War II, during the 50s | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
and 60s, and the British didn't. I think our European partners long for | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
European institutions that protect their democracy, whereas the British | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
just don't feel the need for that. It is a different culture. | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
You cited Italy as a European success story that didn't have the | :14:02. | :14:09. | |
reforms. I didn't say it didn't do the reforms. The economy there isn't | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
any bigger than it was when it joined the euro in 1999. Two lost | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
decades, its industrial production is back where it was in 1984, its | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
banks are bust, its youth are on the dole. How is Europe of the eurozone | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
been good for Italy? They'll not do the reforms... They've... The | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
Italian case is the typical case of a country that is coming late to the | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
reforms. Look at the situation in Ireland and in my own country, why | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
is, why is Spain up to 3% growth? Because they have done it. But how | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
can it be good for Europe... The union... But how can it be good for | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
Italy when the economy hasn't grown since 1994? It's not so different to | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
the situation in other countries. The 2008 crisis has been huge and | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
many other countries that have not been part of Europe are still | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
struggling with growth. It's interesting that you put it, Michael | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
asked Europe has taken the wrong turn maybe and it's going to | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
impoverish Europe. If you talk to lots of people in the continent, | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
that is what they say about the UK. They think the UK has taken the | :15:23. | :15:31. | |
wrong turn and that that is going to impoverish. The eurozone goes from | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
crisis to crisis. It's the slowest growing group in the world. Does it | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
not make sense for Britain to diversify and have more growing | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
trade in other parts of the world? The reason we struggle with trade in | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
India or China is not because we are still part of the EU, although we | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
are coming out, it's because of culture, the fact that those | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
countries do not want to allow us access. We could address those now. | :16:00. | :16:09. | |
We are coming out very microscopically slowly. Coming out | :16:10. | :16:16. | |
isn't going to... That's not true. 15 years ago, about 60% of our trade | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
was with the European Union. Today it's 44%. IPSO facto, the other part | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
of the trade's gone to the rest of the world. If you look at the | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
figures... I do. Even if we double the trade, with the US, the Canada, | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
Australia and New Zealand and with India, even if we double it with all | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
those countries, we'll still trade less than with the EU today. Those | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
are the figures and in many cases that has nothing to do with the | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
growing population. I don't know whether Brexit is going to be a | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
success or failure, I really don't. Inwant a referendum, I would much | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
rather we were back where we were. The very fact that you made that | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
film this evening, although you said that the idea that Europe was | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
collapsing was grossly exaggerated, you had to make the film this | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
evening and there is a switch in focus going on at the moment. Since | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
June 24th, people have been moaning about the terrible situation we are | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
in and maybe we are in a difficult situation but I think the focus is | :17:21. | :17:22. | |
shifting to the difficult situation in which the European Union is and | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
it's, I think the Italian referendum has put the where are centre stage | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
which is exactly where it should be. The next things that may happen are | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
an Italian general election, an election in France and the situation | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
may simply get worse. All right. What I would say is some European | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
politicians do get the need for reform. Manuel Valz in particular. | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
He's about to lose. But he understands. And he's about to lose. | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
Well, he's making the case that Brexit isn't just a British problem, | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
that the EU needs to reform because if it doesn't meet the needs of its | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
people it could collapse. I think those voices have to be heard. We | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
are in this difficult dilemma here where people want to make the case | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
for the EU in the eurozone. But it has to reform. The question is | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
whether Germany, Germany I think is key here, because so long as | :18:17. | :18:24. | |
borrowing is seen as a sin, rather than investing jobs for growth... | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
You have rather glossed over the record of the eurozone, saying its | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
economic performance was "unresolved". The US economy today | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
is 15% bigger than it was just before the crash. The British | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
economy is 8% bigger than it was just before the crash. Let's look at | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
this year. Let me finish the question. The eurozone's economy is | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
no bigger than it was in all that time, eight years, it's no bigger | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
now than it was before the crash. Where's the success? I'm not coming | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
here to defend the Europe. I'm coming here to explain that the euro | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
has been a political project that's obviously made some things difficult | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
because there are lots of countries advancing at the same pace. | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
Nevertheless it's had positive impacts in some countries like mine. | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
However, coming back to something you mentioned earlier which is the | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
populism and the anti-European feeling in the rest of the European | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
countries, I think it's really important to see and perhaps more | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
difficult to see it from here, the populist continental Europe is very | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
different to the populism here. A lot of the populism in continental | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
Europe is simply antiestablishment. The population here is driven by the | :19:39. | :19:45. | |
elite. This is backed by the vested interest, by the media, by the | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
elites, Etonians. Very different. We have ran out of time. You did make | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
that point very well in the film. I would counsel viewers that sceptics | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
always underestimate the desire of the European elite to keep the show | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
on the road and so you may well be right. The British elite to destroy | :20:05. | :20:06. | |
it. Now, it's late, party with Keith Vaz | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
and Sally Bercow late. But be warned, if you party too | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
hard, you may well end up waking up on a purple sofa wearing one of | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
Michael's shirts, wondering how it But fear not, because Pete Doherty | :20:17. | :20:18. | |
is waiting in the wings to set us straight, as he puts | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
bust-ups in our Spotlight. So go on then, have a Snap, Crackle | :20:24. | :20:25. | |
and Pop, come at us on Fightbook, we'll be happy to Tweet | :20:26. | :20:29. | |
you down in one punch. Now, it's been a tricky week | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
for Theresa May's Brexit of dreams, which is no longer hard, or soft, | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
or clean, but red, white and blue. Anymore of this and I suspect | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
the Prime Minister will be Some of us are already chasing cars | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
on the street and we have no idea For those of you who have trouble | :20:44. | :20:52. | |
sleeping, just put this week's These dulcet, posh, so superior | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
legal eagle tones will soon have For those of you still awake, here's | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
Dermot Murnaghan with his roundup Yeah, yeah, what have | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
we got today... Hold on, Dermot, | :21:08. | :21:29. | |
we're not quite there. The only show in town | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
this week was Brexit. Sorry, one more time, | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
one more time, police sirens. The only show in town this week | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
was Brexit when the UK's presence on the world stage | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
was up for discussion. Even though Prime Minister May | :21:48. | :21:49. | |
was on international business in Bahrain, | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
she still found time to tell us where Brexit | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
was on the colour palate. Sometimes people look at this | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
as somehow the UK taking one particular model, | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
the UK trying to take some It's not about this sort of Brexit | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
or that sort of Brexit, it's about a red, white and blue | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
Brexit, that is the right Brexit, Access to the single market | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
is of course a key issue, so it was no surprise that | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
when the chief Brexiter David Davis and the Chancellor Philip Hammond | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
joined forces to...do you mind... to suggest that the UK continuing | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
to pay into the EU budget for access to the single market after Brexit | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
that that ruffled a few feathers and the key Leave campaigner | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
and Foreign Secretary, don't call me Boris any more | :22:37. | :22:38. | |
Johnson, he wasn't keen What David has said | :22:39. | :22:40. | |
is that is the kind of thing that could be considered, | :22:41. | :22:48. | |
but we are not getting into a running commentary | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
on our negotiations. I think I've given you a pretty | :22:52. | :22:53. | |
fair four-point analysis Control of borders, control of laws, | :22:54. | :22:55. | |
control of money, the ability That's within those ideas, | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
those very simple ideas, is a wealth of information | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
about the kind of deal that we want. Are you kidding me, it's right | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
behind you, it's that. We got a real sense this week | :23:12. | :23:20. | |
of how the UK are going Their chief negotiator | :23:21. | :23:28. | |
Michel Barnier said the whole thing could be trashed out in about 18 | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
months from the triggering The announcement | :23:35. | :23:36. | |
came with a warning. He also said the UK can't | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
expect an easy ride. The single market | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
and its four freedoms, Two significant moves forward | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
in the House of Commons this week, as MPs discussed a Labour motion, | :23:49. | :23:58. | |
agreed a Labour motion, that the Government should publish | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
a plan on its Brexit strategy before The Government countered | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
with an amendment also agreed on that the House would accept | :24:07. | :24:14. | |
the triggering of Article 50 The Government would negotiate | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
for two years without telling us any Are you, is anybody, | :24:19. | :24:27. | |
are any members of this House content not to know, | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
hands up who doesn't want to know - doesn't want to know - | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
hands up, you don't want to know. I said several times in debates | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
the honourable gentleman's attended, towards the SNP member, | :24:39. | :24:40. | |
I will make as much information as possible available | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
without prejudicing our negotiating Now, Brexit was in the dock | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
this week and it's over there at the Supreme Court | :24:49. | :24:58. | |
where we're not, perhaps that some of the finest legal brains | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
in Britain were discussing the issue of whether MPs should be | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
consulted before Theresa May My case, as you know, | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
is that the 2015 Act in effect involved Parliament deciding to put | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
to the final decision of the people the in-out question and we do | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
respectfully submit therefore that whether it said things | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
or didn't say things, whether it was silent or not, | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
it still carries real I think we all now accept the forced | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
Parliament by reason of sovereignty The idea that ministers could revoke | :25:33. | :25:40. | |
this fundamental change to our constitutional order, | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
in my submission, is In Brussels this week, | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
Boris Johnson discussed NATO is more important | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
now than ever before. We need to be very vigilant | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
on our eastern frontier, but also of course NATO | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
is there to project stability Of course, one of Britain's biggest | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
allies in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia and a tape's emerged | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
of the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, having | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
a pop at them and Iran. The tragedy for me, and that's why | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
you have all these proxy wars being fought the whole time in that | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
area, is that there's not strong enough leadership | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
in the countries themselves. You've got the Saudis, Iran, | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
everybody moving in and puppeteering On the domestic front, | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
the only person thinking more about trains this week | :26:45. | :27:05. | |
than Michael Portillo was probably the Transport | :27:06. | :27:07. | |
Secretary, Chris Grayling. Now, he pulled the communication | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
cord on Network Rail, he said that a shake-up | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
of the railways in England What needs to happen | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
within Network Rail, it needs to become more | :27:18. | :27:25. | |
of a collection of route-based businesses with local management | :27:26. | :27:27. | |
focussing on what's best for their own line, | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
their own passengers and commuters. Network Rail has not | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
been focussed enough News dominated by Foreign | :27:34. | :27:34. | |
Affairs and Brexit. The question is, at the end | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
of the day, who will be over the moon and who will be sick | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
as a parrot in this Hello and welcome to Portillo's Pub | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
quiz, dedicated entirely With 195 nations to get | :27:46. | :27:58. | |
through, pens at the ready. Question one, who is | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
the Foreign Minister of France? Question two, who is | :28:04. | :28:05. | |
the President of South Korea? Dermot Murnaghan, the quizmaster | :28:06. | :28:16. | |
you don't want to meet down the pub Are we any clear on the Government's | :28:17. | :28:33. | |
negotiating strategy for Brexit? No. We have seen a week in which the | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
Government, for once, has been deft, converting a Labour motion which | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
looked tricky and looked like ringing about a Conservative revolt | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
into something of a substantial success. The Government is now | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
committed to saying something about its negotiating position but I do | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
see what it can say, other than that it wishes to have its cake and eat | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
it, which the people we negotiate with will try to deny us. Could it | :28:59. | :29:05. | |
not outline its strategic ends? It is going to have to tell the people | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
it is negotiating with. As an example, we would like to be in the | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
single market and we wish to control immigration. Extremely likely that | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
those negotiating will try to deny us having those things. But that | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
could be our position. I think probably what the Government wants | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
to do is to set out a series of ambitions which Rob Lee will be | :29:28. | :29:35. | |
denied to us, but which in each case Mac -- represent the maximum the | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
Government might want to achieve. What did Labour achieve with its | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
motion, other than to show that it was even more divided on Brexit than | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
the Tories? I don't think that is true, actually. Credit to Keir | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
Starmer factually getting a concession from the Government that | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
there would be a plan. It's the first time that has happened. | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
Secondly, I hope it has put to bed the idea that somehow MPs, who have | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
a right and a duty to scrutinise the Government's plans, are somehow | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
trying to block Brexit. I think many of the hardline Brexiteers are | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
tilting at windmills there, and I think the house showed that we | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
accept the will of the people but we want to scrutinise it. But we got no | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
idea what the shape of the plan will be, what the mechanism will be, a | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
white paper, a Green paper, the back of a five packet... You will | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
remember me saying that I would like to see a White Paper on this. We | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
still do not know whether the Supreme Court will say a motion is | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
enough, or whether there has to be legislation. The plaintiff 's are | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
arguing strongly that a motion carries no legal weight. Only | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
something that can become an act of Parliament carries legal weight. One | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
thing I would disagree with Michael about, it is very interesting that | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
the person who seems to give away more than anybody about the | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
Government's plans is David Davis, who has proven slightly more | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
pragmatic, saying we might have to consider paying in to get access to | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
the single market, that it would be inconceivable that after the | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
negotiations Parliament would not have a vote. One thing we have not | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
talked about is this transitional agreement, because we are not going | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
to get this sorted into macro years, and people do not want a cliff edge. | :31:32. | :31:40. | |
Article 50, you pack your bags and leave the house, is not the final | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
divorce settlement. The people who matter are the people who run the | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
big help. The heads of state. Why doesn't the Government put a short | :31:54. | :32:00. | |
enabling Bill before the Commons? I think the Government will be | :32:01. | :32:03. | |
reassured by what happened yesterday. Although you said Labour | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
was divided, what struck me was how solidly the Labour Party voted for | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
the motion which committed us to triggering article 50 by the end of | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
March. Why so? Because even more than in the Conservative Party, | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
Labour Party members are worried about voting against their | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
constituents. Many Conservatives had huge majorities for Remain in their | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
constituencies, but many Labour voters -- many Labour members had | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
huge majorities for Leeds in their constituency. Any worries that the | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
Government might have had about its one clause bill in the House of | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
Commons, it need not worry now. If they get a big majority, they should | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
not worry about the Lords even. I certainly feel that having voted to | :32:48. | :32:54. | |
have the referendum, I have to accept that it is not just what my | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
constituents have said. The one person, Kenneth Clarke, who has | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
always been pro-Europe, he did not vote for the referendum Bill and he | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
can honestly say, I'm going to vote against it and I don't accept it. | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
Many more broke the Labour whip on that. What have you made of the | :33:13. | :33:19. | |
Supreme Court proceedings? I think probably people will be quite | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
impressed by the Supreme Court proceedings, in the sense that I | :33:24. | :33:25. | |
think they are going through the arguments, trying to consider | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
whether the Government has stepped beyond what is permitted and whether | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
it is a role for Parliament. I was not particularly impressed by the | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
clips we showed, in which the barristers did not look to | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
articulate. But the process will be quite reassuring to people and | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
seeing the proceedings televised is a good thing. If we are going to | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
have a more powerful, American-style Supreme Court, shouldn't we also | :33:49. | :33:55. | |
have an American style scrutiny of judicial appointments? I am not sure | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
why you say we are going to have an American-style Supreme Court. | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
Because it is getting involved in adjudicating on constitutional | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
matters to a degree that the Law lords never did. I would be wary | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
about changing to that kind of appointment system. What I take from | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
the court proceedings is that I felt quite proud. We have an independent | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
judiciary, considering an issue brought by citizens who are saying, | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
our Minister choux are the decisions legal? Many countries would be | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
jealous of that, so much of it was opaque, but I felt very proud. I am | :34:37. | :34:38. | |
glad you are proud. Now to a new regular | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
slot on This Week. And this week we're | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
in the Lincolnshire constiuency of Sleaford and North Hykeham, | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
and our Correspondent, Tim, what can you tell us? The | :34:47. | :35:07. | |
Tories expected to win, but will it be Labour or Ukip coming second? How | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
does it look? Yes, I don't think we will have another night of drama in | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
this corner of Lincolnshire tonight. Sleaford and North Hykeham is not | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
Richmond Park. This area delivered a 62% Leave vote in the referendum, | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
and the Conservative candidate here, Doctor Caroline Johnson, a proper | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
doctor, a consultant paediatrician, is a committed Brexiteer, so she | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
says. The battle looks like it will be for second place. They became | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
second in last year's General Election but Ukip are confident of | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
overtaking Labour, coming second and heating into the Tory vote. But | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
still some way behind the Conservatives. When will you get the | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
result? It is a large rural constituency with lots of outlying | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
polling stations, which is my way of saying it will be a long night. We | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
reckon about 4am, sometime later than the result last week in | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
Richmond Park. 37% turnout for this by-election, compared to 70% in the | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
general election. Winter by-election is traditionally do not attract a | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
large turnout. Most of those I spoke to on the street were more worried | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
about Carol concerts and school Nativity is, rather than electing a | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
new MP. Go and get some coffee, and good luck through the night. For | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
those of you wondering why we are not doing that by-election result, I | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
think you just got the answer. And some of us have to sleep now and | :36:40. | :36:41. | |
then. Now, if you want a friend | :36:42. | :36:42. | |
in Westminster, get a dog. But if you are a dog, | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
do not under any circumstances get In politics, there's no more | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
uplifting sight than one So it's been open season on Boris, | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
as he goes from gaffe to gaffe. Just to heighten his discomfort, | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
the Government has briefed that ministers should stop | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
poking fun at Boris. For Her Majesty's Principal | :37:00. | :37:00. | |
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Alexander | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
Boris de Pfeffel Johnson... So we're putting bust-ups | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
in the Spotlight. Would the excellent acting | :37:09. | :37:19. | |
Prime Minister tell the House how much the European Union should pay | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
for tariff free access The bust-up between Tories over cash | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
for access to the European single But it isn't just Europe that's | :37:32. | :37:40. | |
causing beef between the Blues. I'm Bob Neill, MP for | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
Bromley and Chislehurst. Bob Neill called for Chris Grayling | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
to resign after he ruled out a Transport for London takeover | :37:51. | :37:53. | |
of suburban rail services. Well, I think he has | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
compromised his position. Is he right to accuse Mr Grayling | :37:57. | :37:58. | |
of prioritising party politics over And what about those old arch | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
rivals, peers and MPs? Baroness Boothroyd didn't hold back | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
this week in condemning past Prime Ministers for appointing any | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
old riff-raff to the Upper House. The repeated abuse of | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
Prime Ministers' powers of privilege The abolition of that untrammelled | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
power is long overdue. Begone, I say, and I hope | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
Theresa May takes note. I doubt the Romans would have cared | :38:27. | :38:33. | |
very much which side you cheered. Historian Mary Beard | :38:34. | :38:43. | |
and Brexiteer Aaron Banks had a Twitter bust-up over that age | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
old question this week. Rock'n'roll bad boy Peter Doherty | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
has had a few bust-ups in his time. And Peter Doherty | :38:50. | :38:57. | |
is here with me now Welcome to the programme. Thank you. | :38:58. | :39:15. | |
Have you had lots of bust ups? Yes, I have had a few, I suppose. I have | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
become more diplomatic over the years, I think. As you get older. | :39:22. | :39:29. | |
Yes. Who you think that bust ups clear the air? I don't know. Did you | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
say something about me once in Parliament? I don't think so. This | :39:34. | :39:43. | |
is the kind of thing, isn't it, someone says something, you absorb | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
it, get offended, and it dissolves inside you, or it eats away at you | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
and you react. And the bus stop clear is that? No, it adds to the | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
long-term resentment. If you have a genuine chronic this agreement | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
between two people, husband and wife, and they have a bust up, as | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
you call it, it just adds to the negativity. Have you had any that | :40:07. | :40:14. | |
you have regretted? I am a generally peaceful fellow who was not that | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
good at fighting. A bust up does not have to be violent. What is a bust | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
up then? Lots of bust ups are when you say something. That is what it | :40:27. | :40:35. | |
was, yes. You performed at the Bataclan. I understand you performed | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
with someone you had had a bust up with, someone from the libertines | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
before, but you came back and performed together again. It took | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
them three weeks to mop up the blood. From the Bataclan. I am | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
sorry, I thought you meant the bust up. I did not realise you were | :40:57. | :41:07. | |
talking about the Bataclan. When Carl's face came apart, that was | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
because he fell over on to a sink because he slipped up. What happened | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
at the Bataclan, which was such a terrible event, did that help you | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
come together again? We did not play that badly. I was amazed that he | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
turned up. It has been a gradual thing, over the last couple of | :41:28. | :41:32. | |
years, coming together for... We were offered a lot of money to come | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
together, initially. And then we started to write together again, | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
tentatively. He is just starting to trust me a bit more, I think. Did | :41:41. | :41:48. | |
you regret the original bust up? Honestly, I still haven't been able | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
to process it. After the Bataclan gig, we had a bit of a bust up. | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
Again? Yes. I think I called him a racist. And I offered him to go toe | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
to toe on the cobbles. I don't know where I got that expression from, | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
the Manchester crew. I am really embarrassed about that. I thought | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
you were going to wheel him out at some point. Maybe he is frightened | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
to come on. What is the biggest bust up you have had? Gosh, I don't know, | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
really. I don't think it's been a big part of my life, really. I've | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
had political disagreements with people. I've been called a bustard, | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
I have been in factions and taken different points of view, but an | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
actual bust up, I can't really think. Have you ever had a bust up? | :42:39. | :42:46. | |
Not professionally. I am sorry, Mum, dad, but my family was very much, | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
get it out and then everything was fine. So I grew up learning that you | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
could say what you thought, have a row and everybody thought it was | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
fine in the end. Actually, in politics, it is not usually a big | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
bust up. What is awful is the backstabbing behind-the-scenes | :43:06. | :43:07. | |
briefings. I would rather you had an argument, clear the air and got on | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
with it. It is all the stuff in the papers that I think it's horrible | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
and one of the nasty things about politics. Have you had many bust | :43:15. | :43:21. | |
ups? Quite a few, actually. Nothing is going to happen now. Don't worry. | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
Somebody showed me earlier, I was watching in the room, tensions are | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
rising, a bust up when there is a lack of leadership. Exactly. Anyway, | :43:33. | :43:40. | |
we have run out of time. You are on tour. We all right, yes. | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
Now, that's your lot for tonight, folks, but not for us. | :43:45. | :43:46. | |
We're heading to Lou Lou's for the This Week Person | :43:47. | :43:48. | |
With all the glitz and glamour of Jeremy Corbyn's potting shed, | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
Michael and Liz were both eliminated, as usual, | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
by the popular vote, and the runner up was, | :43:57. | :43:58. | |
But with blonde buffoonery all the rage this year, | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
Nighty night, don't let the BoJo blunders bite. | :44:03. | :44:12. | |
I would certainly like to see demonstrations outside | :44:13. | :44:13. | |
Life expectancy in Africa has risen astonishingly, | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
as that country has entered the global economic system. | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
I think we got through that one all right. | :44:28. | :44:39. | |
I certainly am the proud possessor of a beautiful, | :44:40. | :44:47. | |
very well functioning Turkish washing machine. | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
Can Boris Johnson stay on message for a full four days? | :44:53. | :45:06. |