09/02/2017 This Week


09/02/2017

Andrew Neil, Michael Portillo and Liz Kendall review the political week with guests Liam Halligan and Matt Forde. Plus a film potentially mocking the week from Andy Parsons.


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Transcript


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# Big John # Big John from the heart of

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Westminster came a legend. Now the legend comes to life. Last

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night, Liz, he threatened to kill Donald's state visit with his bare

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hands, then he snuck over to my place and stole my blue nun. I don't

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know if you've noticed my hat but I'm not the sheriff around these

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parts any more. You need Andrew. Do you think he'll go after him? He'll

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go. Big John is heading them up and moving them out, and he's lining up

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the greatest outlaws in the west. And even Kate Parsons is on the gold

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rush, filling our cautious with most lewd and riches in all the land. The

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fastest news round-up in the west. You looking for trouble? Not any

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more. The finest moneyman in the west, Liam Halligan, is on the run

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from big, bad John. He's looking for a safe house to hide. Sajid Javid

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said the housing market is broken. We need to fix it! And funnyman Matt

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Forde's quaking in his boots. Big John really hates him. In a time

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when heroes are hard to find, the bad John is one of a kind.

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Let me make clear right from the start that,

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though we value our relationship with the United States,

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and whether or not Donald Trump makes a state visit to this country

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is way above my pay grade, I would not wish to issue

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an invitation for President Trump to appear on this programme.

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I appreciate he's expressed no interest in doing so anyway.

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But that won't stop me doing a bit of grandstanding and virtue

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signalling before the rest of the media and the wider public.

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I've taken this position after much serious consideration as to how much

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free publicity it's likely to garner and without consulting

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But frankly what Newsnight does is its own business and he's never

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Now I know that, over the years, we've welcomed Vlad the Impaler,

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Diane Abbott, Adolf Hitler, Attila the Hun, Ken Livingstone

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and Transylvania's very own Country Dracula into this studio.

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But let me say, as a self-important, solipsistic, egotistical,

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preening, pretentious, puffed up, postulating,

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pompous little pixie in love with the sound of my own voice,

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this programme's long-running opposition to free speech,

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sensible debate and proper analysis, coupled with its deep commitment

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to free Blue Nun for all means I would not feel comfortable sharing

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a sofa on the public airwaves with someone who says what he thinks

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and has never had even a sip of alcohol in his life.

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I just could not bring myself to do it.

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Unless, of course, he has that long-promised contract in his pocket

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In which case we're ready to welcome him with a a two-hour special,

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a free bathrobe since apparently he doesn't have one

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Speaking of those who should never have been invited

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in the first place and have long outstayed their welcome,

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I'm joined on the sofa tonight by Michael #choochoo Portillo,

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Welcome to you both. The IMF told me the Greek debt situation is becoming

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exclusive. There seems to be about three weeks to settle the issue. It

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doesn't seem it can be settled without new contributions from EU

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members but, given that there are elections in France and Germany, it

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seems most unlikely those politicians will agree to transfers

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of money to the Greeks or debt forgiveness, so it looks like we are

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in for another Euro crisis. A programme shown earlier on the BBC

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would suggest the EU is becoming unstuck at the joints, so watch this

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space. It is the splash story in tomorrow's Financial Times. Beirut

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pouring -- the appalling reports this week that Assad tortured and

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murdered 14,000 prisoners in a single prison in a single year. Too

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many people seem to accept that Assad has to somehow be a part of

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the solution, but I don't see how you can get a lasting settlement in

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Syria when it is atrocities like that that are driving people toward

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the terrorists, and I hope our Foreign Secretary, even if the

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president of the USA doesn't, convinces Putin that it is in his

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interests to have a settlement that really works. I just don't see how

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that can happen when Assad is still there. ... It is like father, like

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son on these issues. I had a moment of the weekly few minutes ago, which

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is that the ninth District Court of appeals has paled law court's

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decision to suspend President Trump's travel ban against seven

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mainly Muslim countries. That only leaves the president with the

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Supreme Court to go to. He has a problem, there are only eight

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members on the Supreme Court at the moment, four liberal, four

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conservative. If they split 4-4, the travel ban is not held. -- not

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upheld. It would fall. So there is the makings of an executive against

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judicial whiplash. This demonstrate that the USA can deal with what

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Donald Trump is doing. It isn't our responsibility to do that.

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There was a time when housing, or the lack of it, was near the top

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These days, the more acute the shortage of affordable housing,

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the more it slips down the priority list when it comes to action.

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This week the May Government promised to fix our broken housing

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market just as the Cameron one promised before it, and the Brown

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one before that, oh yes, and the Blair one before that.

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And as all their promises gathered dust on the shelves of Whitehall,

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we continued to build far fewer homes than we need, rents soared

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and young people are now more likely to watch this programme

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So why will this latest housing policy be any different?

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Here's Liam Halligan from the Telegraph

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The biggest obstacle to social progress is our broken housing

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Fixing it means tackling some tough vested interests.

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The Communities Secretary's right on both counts.

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But his housing White Paper isn't up to the job.

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Over the last 20 years, we've built 2.5 million too few homes.

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That's led to soaring prices, making houses increasingly unaffordable.

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In the early '90s, low and middle income workers needed to save around

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5% of their wages for three years on average to build a deposit

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These days, they'd need 24 years of such savings.

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Generation rent's frustrated and rightly so.

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Ten years ago, 65% of 25 to 34-year-olds were

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The majority then of a generation of young adults is priced out

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of the property market and of those who did buy their first home

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in 2015, half got help from the Bank of Mum and Dad.

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The White Paper headlines are largely about the green belt.

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What we really need is for the big house builders that dominate

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the market to ease the blockage using the planning permission

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There's evidence which the Government largely accepts

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of a deliberate building go-slow to keep prices and profits

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Sajid Javid promised tough measures the stop large house-builders

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from sitting on so-called land banks, but after the White Paper

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The UK housing market, once a source of social mobility,

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This housing market White Paper promised much,

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Our thanks to the students and staff at Lambeth College.

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Welcome back to the programme. Liz, what did you make of the White

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Paper? Really disappointing. You know, if we are going to build more

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homes, we need access to land, finance, more competition among

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house-builders, more options, different types of housing for older

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people and shared ownership, and there's nothing in it to give it

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real teeth. And what there are many things that concern me. I see it a

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lot my own constituency, an increasing number of people who are

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homeless because they are getting kicked out of the private rented

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sector. The key thing is what you said about the bank of mum and dad.

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If your parents are better off, they give you help to get on the housing

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ladder, and it's a real problem for social mobility. Ward if you have to

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do it on your salary, it will be really difficult. What was your

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reaction to the White Paper? Similar, very disappointing. This is

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a terrible crisis and it is the worst contrast between Thatcher's

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Conservative government and the present one. Since the Conservatives

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got in in the coalition in 2010, they seem to have had no interest in

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home ownership. Numbers are sliding all the time. Nothing effective has

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been done about it at all. We used to think that the way you build a

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future for the Tory party, apart from anything else, was by having

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lots of homeowners. I agree that it is socially divisive, because there

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are those who will at some point in money from their parents and the

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rest who never will. My solution would be wrong -- more radical than

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less orderly. I think you have to go to the public sector. The only way

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you are going to get a lot of houses fast is by letting the public sector

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or voluntary sector do it. We don't seem to care a lot about the deficit

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any more. It's true that the public sector can build cheaply. What that

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would do is it would reduce house prices and, in due course, you could

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sell public sector houses into the private sector, as we did in the

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past. The urgency is to have a look at houses quickly. Homeownership

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among 25 to 34-year-olds has fallen by 30%. Quite astounding. I wanted

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to dig into some of the issues in a moment. Let's stand back, this has

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been a long-running problem for the British political system, no matter

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who has been in power for the past 25 years. Labour or Conservative.

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What is it about a system that doesn't take the right decisions to

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release the land and the money to build more homes? This is a

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cross-party issue. We need around 250,000 homes each year. That is the

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figure from Kate Barker report in 2004. It is still roughly right. We

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haven't built that many homes since the mid-80s. And that, when we beat

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-- when we did build those homes, two thirds were provided by small

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and medium-sized enterprises, which had an incentive to build quickly.

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Now they provide less than a fifth of homes. Big housing developers are

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now concentrated. There was a Lords report in summer that set the big

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house-builders have all the characteristics of an oligopoly. In

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my discussions with government before this white paper, and added a

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lot investigation... There was a Channel 4 documentary. I wasn't

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going to bring it up! There was some tough talk, and Sajid Javid, to his

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credit, at the Conservative conference, said that the big

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house-builders were guilty of land banking, and they had a stranglehold

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on the market. And yet the measures in this white paper don't get

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anywhere near towards breaking back stranglehold. We are getting a lot

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more planning permission coming through. That isn't being used

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nearly as quickly as it is being given. There is a big gap between

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when planning permission is given and when the houses appear. In my

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view, honestly, there is a deliberate those low. That

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deliberate those low, they would deny it... And they have denied it,

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let's make that clear. We will accept your position on that for the

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moment. But that on its own cannot be the reason that we are not

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building anything like 250,000 homes a year. Until recently, it was the

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combination of the big house-builders not wanting to build

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quickly, plus so-called nimbyism, people using the green belt is a

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sort of ethnic cleansing mechanism to keep the great unwashed away from

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their neighbourhood. There is more acreage given to golf courses in

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Surrey then there is to residential property. I would say, though, there

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has been a lot of effort in the last five years by a local councils, many

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of whom I talk to as part of my investigation, very few of whom

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would come on camera because they are scared of central government and

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the builders. They have given a lot more planning permission. In the

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last two years, I got some figures, the last two years where we had

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numbers, there was a printed increase -- 28% increase in planning

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permission granted for the and that is the land banking. Yes. It is also

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what Michael Rose. For years, we haven't trusted councils to borrow

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to build socially affordable homes to rent. -- it is also what Michael

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says. That would make the single biggest difference in my

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constituency. It wouldn't force people into unstable, increasing,

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costly and often bad quality private sector. It would get the housing

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bill down as well. It would reduce the rental... Yes. I would like to

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see longer term tenancies for people, especially families. That it

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is in the White Paper, though how strong it is... It is only for the

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new build to rent properties. That was Ed Miliband's idea, as was the

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land banking complaint. Use it or lose it was his cry, and Mr Osborne

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said it was a stupid idea, effectively. The green belt, a lot

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of which isn't green. Is it time to do a qualitative assessment of the

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green belt and say, there are some parts that are really quite brown,

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we can build there, we can create other green belt elsewhere and build

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more parks in our cities and towns and, overall it would be a plus?

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Liam is probably right that the green belt is a peripheral issue.

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However, it's one of these things which is very emblem attic that

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people get very, very upset about. So I think if the Government

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announced that it was reviewing the green belt, that would set public

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opinion so strongly against the whole idea of extra house building

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that I think it's not worth it. It would set it back all together. I

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think there's something in that. The social attitude survey shows

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so-called nimbyism is waning. You've now got increasing numbers of people

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who want building in their locality not least because nice middle class

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children called Jonathan and Emily can't buy homes. This is a story

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issue now and I'm surprised actually that the Prime Minister hasn't given

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Javid the way through to actually do something a bit more radical, not so

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much on the green belt, I accept that's... Anyway, the big house

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builders want us to have a row and nervous breakdown about the green

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belt but particularly on punitive measures, on forcing the big house

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builders to build... I like free markets but this free market is

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broken so you have to intervene. It raises a broader question, whether

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the Tory Government is too busy with Brexit to be a Tory Government. I

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think there is a lot in that. Conservatives are very worried about

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that. Here is the rub, a depressing one. Is there not a pretty good

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chance that things will not get better? Michael and Liz are right.

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We need a mixed economy solution. We need more socially provided houses.

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We do. And they've gone up from the hundreds to the thousands, the low

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single digit thousands. 300,000 for Harold Macmillan. Help raising the

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cap would build 60,000ing. The Housing Association model is a

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fantastic mod they can work and does do good work, but in the end, it's

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the private sector that is going to provide the majority of the homes

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and the private sector, I'm afraid, has every incentive to build slowly

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in order to keep the prices high. Allow the prices to go up and make

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more? Indeed. It's not just existing homeowners that want high prices,

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the Treasury do. Here is something you don't hear often, the banking

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sector want prices to go up because they are up to their neck in

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property loans. If the housing prices come down, it's believed the

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banks could collapse. Mrs May said she wants to help the just about

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managing so you have set a challenge for her tonight on housing, thank

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you, Liam. Now, it's late, pucker up

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and try to give Diane a kiss on the cheek late,

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as the Brexit Minister tried to do on Tuesday -

:19:24.:19:26.

purely in a comradely fashion, you understand, since they'd both

:19:27.:19:29.

just voted to trigger Article 50, only to be told by Madam Mao

:19:30.:19:31.

to "eff off". Not very sisterly,

:19:32.:19:34.

but she probably had a headache. Anyway, fear not, David Davis,

:19:35.:19:37.

because waiting in the wings is political funnyman Matt Forde,

:19:38.:19:40.

who's conveniently putting animosity So troll away, Facebrats,

:19:41.:19:44.

Snapchunter on - because, you see, Now, we pride ourselves

:19:45.:19:51.

on being of a religious bent here on This Week,

:19:52.:19:58.

and we're often derided for it by the secularist metrosexuals that

:19:59.:20:03.

dominate the upper echelons Not after our #PrayforDiane campaign

:20:04.:20:05.

resulted in Madam Mao rising Lazarus-like from her death bed

:20:06.:20:14.

to rude health once more - very rude, in the case of David

:20:15.:20:17.

Davis - and returning to be that shining beacon of political wisdom

:20:18.:20:22.

and integrity that we know and love. Yes, our prayers were answered

:20:23.:20:25.

and I think what especially did the trick was that little candlelit

:20:26.:20:29.

vigil choo-choo held after we came off air last

:20:30.:20:34.

week on Platform 12, Here's Andy Parsons with his rather

:20:35.:20:36.

charitable round-up Hello there, I'm Andy, doing some

:20:37.:21:02.

fund-raising for a very important charity. No, no, no, it's for some

:21:03.:21:12.

very desperate people. It's for This Week! Good afternoon, I'm collecting

:21:13.:21:20.

on behalf of This Week. # Give a little bit more... #

:21:21.:21:27.

Collection for Andrew Neil. And Michael Portillo? ! He's a sad man

:21:28.:21:35.

on a train. I'm a long way off what I need for a Knighthood. Maybe I

:21:36.:21:40.

need to do some grovelling to the Queen. I mean she's 90 years old, an

:21:41.:21:45.

incredible woman. If you think about it, she has two birthdays a year,

:21:46.:21:50.

she's officially 180. Doubly incredible. The Parliamentary week

:21:51.:21:55.

kicked off with the speaker weighing in on triumph, John Bercow declared

:21:56.:22:00.

to applause for some MPs that he wouldn't let the President address

:22:01.:22:03.

Parliament during his state visit. As far as this place is concerned, I

:22:04.:22:13.

feel very strongly that our opposition to racism and to sexism

:22:14.:22:19.

and our support for equality before the law and an independent judiciary

:22:20.:22:25.

are hugely important considerations in the House of Commons. Not

:22:26.:22:30.

everyone was clapping. Once the dust settled, John Bercow was himself

:22:31.:22:35.

accused of being a mini Trump and scalded for showing off. Lord

:22:36.:22:40.

Fowler, Bercow's counterpart wondered whether the speaker's veto

:22:41.:22:44.

should be taken away all together. It's ridiculous! Do people not know

:22:45.:22:49.

how much I've suffered for this country? I've even had to listen to

:22:50.:22:57.

my wife singing in the bath. # You really, really, really wanna

:22:58.:23:07.

zig-a-zig-ah. The position means Mr Speaker or myself can veto the

:23:08.:23:11.

leader at least as far as Westminster Hall is concerned. I

:23:12.:23:18.

think it's for Parliament to consider whether there is a better

:23:19.:23:23.

way in which such decisions can be made. Roll up, roll up, get your

:23:24.:23:31.

raffle tickets here. First prize, a bottle of premium Blue None. Second

:23:32.:23:39.

prize, a full bottle. Retails at ?1.75. Third prize, third prize.

:23:40.:23:45.

Third prize, a full bottle plus an evening with Michael Portillo.

:23:46.:23:49.

The Brexit Bill raced over the finishing line in the Commons this

:23:50.:23:53.

week. The Government comfortably saw off a rebellion by promising MPs a

:23:54.:24:00.

meaningful vote on the final deal. There will be a meaningful vote. The

:24:01.:24:03.

vote will be eother accept the deal that the Government will have

:24:04.:24:08.

achieved and I repeat, that that process of negotiation will not be

:24:09.:24:13.

without frequent reports to this House or no deal. Labour claim the

:24:14.:24:19.

vote was a major concession. Well, an inch of a concession. We are

:24:20.:24:23.

fighting hard to try to get the right concessions. There is two

:24:24.:24:26.

years to go, we won't give up the battle. It's difficult, we are in

:24:27.:24:30.

opposition, we are trying inch by inch to get more accountability and

:24:31.:24:34.

scrutiny. Tory remainers were not impressed

:24:35.:24:39.

with Labour's inchy victory. Ex-Chancellor, George Osborne,

:24:40.:24:42.

conspicuously abstained from the vote and others who did turn up gave

:24:43.:24:47.

the whips a piece of their mind. Former Education Secretary Nicky

:24:48.:24:55.

Morgan, was not impressed. The Government is in full steam ahead

:24:56.:24:59.

mode. The Foreign Secretary even took a microphone in the face at an

:25:00.:25:05.

EU summit. Say again. One more time. Jeremy

:25:06.:25:13.

Corbyn imposed a strict three-line whip on Labour to support the Bill

:25:14.:25:19.

and three whips voted against, thus making it a strict no line whip. All

:25:20.:25:26.

in all, 52 Labour MPs rebelled but the surprise of the night was the

:25:27.:25:29.

resignation of Clive Lewis moments before the vote. Another one bites

:25:30.:25:35.

the dust. But there was a silver lining. Diane's recovered. Phew. The

:25:36.:25:43.

passionate speeches just before votes can really do it. She rallied

:25:44.:25:48.

and supported the Brexit vote. How kissable she must have seemed! I say

:25:49.:25:54.

she supported it. Just about... I have a lot of misgivings about the

:25:55.:25:58.

idea of a Tory Brexit. I think the country will soon come to regret it.

:25:59.:26:05.

But the Labour Shadow Cabinet debated and decided this week that

:26:06.:26:11.

we would vote to trigger Article 50 at the third reading and I'm a loyal

:26:12.:26:15.

member of the Shadow Cabinet. Jeremy Corbyn went on social care at

:26:16.:26:21.

PMQs, ambushing the PM with leaked texts from Surrey County Council.

:26:22.:26:24.

They apparently revealed a sweetheart deal to scrap a planned

:26:25.:26:31.

referendum on an increase in council tax charge in exchange for

:26:32.:26:35.

additional funding. What deal had been offered to Surrey that got them

:26:36.:26:39.

to call off a referendum and will the same deal be offered to every

:26:40.:26:44.

other council every day that the Prime Minister fails to act? This

:26:45.:26:50.

crisis gets worse. Will she finally come clean and provide local

:26:51.:26:55.

authorities with the funding they need to fund social care properly?

:26:56.:27:01.

What he fails to recognise is that they can only spend money on social

:27:02.:27:04.

care and on the National Health Service if you have a strong economy

:27:05.:27:09.

to deliver the wealth that you need. When I talk about half a trillion

:27:10.:27:13.

pounds, that's the money we'll be spending on the NHS this Parliament.

:27:14.:27:17.

When Labour talk about half a trillion pounds, it's the money they

:27:18.:27:22.

want to borrow. Conservatives investing in the NHS, Labour

:27:23.:27:28.

bankrupting Britain. This isn't fair. All Katherine Jenkins had to

:27:29.:27:35.

do was sing some rugby songs. Swing low, sweet... Right, I've had enough

:27:36.:27:43.

of this! Right. Hello, your Majesty. On hold.

:27:44.:27:49.

Hello. Hello, your Majesty. So far we've raised ?17. 27. Woo. It was

:27:50.:28:01.

more than we were expecting, yes. But is it going to be enough for the

:28:02.:28:06.

honours committee to give me a Knighthood?

:28:07.:28:16.

Unappreciative... Andy Parsons. We'll put a word with

:28:17.:28:21.

him. He's currently on tour, we'd like to thank him for all his help.

:28:22.:28:26.

The Brexit Bill passed unscathed, sizeable majority, 120 amendments,

:28:27.:28:30.

none of them passed. What did the opposition achieve? Well, we started

:28:31.:28:36.

to raise the issues that really matter after all of this which is

:28:37.:28:40.

what kind of Brexit are we going to get, jobs or growth. I was deeply

:28:41.:28:45.

disappointed, especially over the amendment to give Parliament a

:28:46.:28:49.

meaningful vote at the end of the process. Let me come on to that in a

:28:50.:28:55.

minute. Before I do, the legislation... I mean Parliament is

:28:56.:28:58.

in recess next week for February, when it comes back the legislation

:28:59.:29:03.

goes, such as it is, goes to the Lords. Will things be any different

:29:04.:29:08.

there in your view? Well, I hope that the Lords actually presses for

:29:09.:29:11.

this amendment to give Parliament a meaningful vote at the end of the

:29:12.:29:15.

crisis. You know I was for Remain but I voted to Trig Ayr 50 because

:29:16.:29:21.

I'm -- trigger Article 50, I've abided by the result but I do want

:29:22.:29:27.

Parliament to have that say. The most important moment in Parliament

:29:28.:29:31.

this week was when the Brexit minister David Jones made a

:29:32.:29:34.

so-called concession. It was no such thing. Parliament either has to

:29:35.:29:39.

accept what the Government offers or fall back on WTO rules and in the

:29:40.:29:42.

event there is no deal, there'll be no vote at all. I don't think that's

:29:43.:29:49.

a meaningful say, to take it or leave it and, in my view, it was a

:29:50.:29:53.

con. If that was the choice, Michael, it's a Hobson's Choice, is

:29:54.:29:57.

it not, because either you vote for the deal whatever it is even if it's

:29:58.:30:04.

a bad deal because all the Remainers who may have through gritted teeth

:30:05.:30:08.

voted for a decent deal still have to vote for a bad deal because it

:30:09.:30:12.

will probably not be worse than crashing out in WTO

:30:13.:30:20.

That situation arises because of the nature of the negotiation. If the

:30:21.:30:26.

government comes back with something and parliament rejects it, do we

:30:27.:30:29.

really think the government goes back to Europe and says, Parliament

:30:30.:30:33.

has rejected it so you have to give us better terms. Surely we know that

:30:34.:30:39.

isn't going to happen. So it arises from the situation, realistically,

:30:40.:30:44.

the deal but we do will be the best deal that is available, and, yes,

:30:45.:30:50.

Parliament can reject it and then we fall back on WTO rules. I don't

:30:51.:30:55.

agree. What if there were possibly a deal where we had better access to

:30:56.:30:58.

the single market or some way of remaining in it, whilst still having

:30:59.:31:04.

some effect over freedom of movement? If the government doesn't

:31:05.:31:09.

want it, we won't get that chance. I think the government would like

:31:10.:31:12.

things to change as little as possible, and the government may be

:31:13.:31:17.

lucky because, as this is going on, freedom of movement in Europe is

:31:18.:31:21.

falling apart. So the idea that this is a fundamental principle which has

:31:22.:31:24.

to be insisted upon in the Brexit situation is untrue. Maybe there

:31:25.:31:30.

will be a deal to be done. But the government clearly wants things to

:31:31.:31:34.

be as an unchanged as possible, it doesn't want tariffs to be imposed

:31:35.:31:39.

on exports or an EU exports to us. But it gave up on you single market

:31:40.:31:47.

access before it even began. Because the partners said we couldn't have

:31:48.:31:51.

access to it. But you don't throw away your hand before you've played

:31:52.:31:57.

it, and I think a vote in parliament would strengthen Theresa May's and,

:31:58.:32:01.

because the remaining EU countries would know, if we offer something

:32:02.:32:04.

bad, we will reject it and sent it back. Why would the EU Parliament be

:32:05.:32:09.

able to reject it and not our own Parliament? You can reject it it's

:32:10.:32:16.

just the consequences might be dire. We can't send it back to be amended.

:32:17.:32:20.

When David Cameron went there last year and said, unless you give me

:32:21.:32:25.

some concessions, I might lose the referendum, they gave him

:32:26.:32:30.

concessions which were not worth the paper they were written on. But he

:32:31.:32:34.

didn't press for changes on immigration. Let's come back to

:32:35.:32:42.

this. Our stories about Jeremy Corbyn stabbing them fake news? I

:32:43.:32:47.

don't believe that he has given some kind of a date. -- Jeremy Corbyn

:32:48.:32:52.

standing down fake news. Do you think that Clive Lewis sees himself

:32:53.:33:00.

as a leadership material? I've no idea, but what we need from the

:33:01.:33:04.

leadership of our party is a clear path as to how we are going to climb

:33:05.:33:09.

this mountain in order to get back into power. You don't think you can

:33:10.:33:15.

see that yet? We have got miles to go. We are doing very badly in the

:33:16.:33:20.

polls. Two by elections coming up. What we are saying is not resonating

:33:21.:33:27.

with the public. People don't trust us on the economy and they feel we

:33:28.:33:31.

are speaking to ourselves. We need to move on. Was John Bercow right to

:33:32.:33:41.

say what he said about not, in public, not wishing to invite you to

:33:42.:33:47.

Trump to address parliament? He could have been more wrong. I think

:33:48.:33:51.

it was shocking. You showed very little respect his office. The is

:33:52.:33:55.

criticising a man who is accused of not showing much respect for his

:33:56.:34:01.

office, being narcissistic and populist, and it looked like the

:34:02.:34:04.

speaker was in danger of doing the same thing. Why didn't he make his

:34:05.:34:09.

point in private? These things are determined in private. The speaker

:34:10.:34:16.

of the Lords was not consulted, the speaker, who we have seen, and

:34:17.:34:20.

somebody called the grand great Chamberlain, or something like that.

:34:21.:34:24.

Why was it necessary to make it so public from the speaker's chair?

:34:25.:34:30.

Because I think he obviously feels this very strongly that an

:34:31.:34:35.

invitation, if it were to be issued, would have to come to him, and I

:34:36.:34:40.

think he wanted to quash any talk of it. Actually, I think all this stuff

:34:41.:34:44.

about, he is misusing his position, I don't think this is what it is

:34:45.:34:49.

about. I think some people have a vendetta against him. They think

:34:50.:34:53.

that used to be very much on the right. He has had a journey more

:34:54.:34:58.

towards the left. They like that. He has been a radical, reforming

:34:59.:35:01.

speaker, and people don't like the changes he has made. I think this

:35:02.:35:06.

motion that has been cast... A motion of no confidence in him, but

:35:07.:35:12.

it would get through. It will strengthen him. I agree that he has

:35:13.:35:17.

a lot of enemies but I don't agree that this is what he is about. But

:35:18.:35:23.

this is about. I everybody would be deeply shocked by what the speaker

:35:24.:35:24.

said. Let's move on. Now, folks, how do

:35:25.:35:27.

you like your eggs - or splattered across

:35:28.:35:29.

Nigel Farage's umbrella full of four-letter words

:35:30.:35:31.

and dripping with resentment? Yes, there's been plenty

:35:32.:35:39.

of animosity this week, and we haven't even mentioned

:35:40.:35:41.

the Shadow Cabinet. That's why we're putting

:35:42.:35:44.

it in the spotlight. Animosity between MPs

:35:45.:35:56.

and the speaker reached new heights this week,

:35:57.:35:58.

not just over Donald Trump but over his commitment to axing

:35:59.:36:01.

Commons clerks' wigs. Wigs have been worn by the clerks

:36:02.:36:05.

for several centuries. If one goes back some centuries,

:36:06.:36:08.

some several centuries, which normally it is the enjoyable

:36:09.:36:13.

sport of the honourable gentleman to do, he will find that in fact

:36:14.:36:16.

clerks did not wear wigs. Nigel Farage is no fan

:36:17.:36:21.

of John Bercow either. I'm not neutral about Bercow,

:36:22.:36:25.

in fact this bloke has Farage drives people

:36:26.:36:27.

in Stoke bonkers too. He encountered eggy animosity

:36:28.:36:33.

as he walked with election candidate Does David Beckham deserve

:36:34.:36:35.

the animosity he's received for allegedly going to desperate

:36:36.:36:45.

lengths to receive a Knighthood? Great to receive an honour

:36:46.:36:50.

for playing football. Meanwhile, across the pond,

:36:51.:36:55.

President Trump's hatred I understand the total dishonesty

:36:56.:36:57.

of the media better than anybody But, surprise, surprise,

:36:58.:37:02.

the Donald wants to confine animosity between the US and Russia

:37:03.:37:08.

to the past. I say it's better to get along

:37:09.:37:13.

with Russia than not. Will I get along with

:37:14.:37:16.

them - I have no idea. Political standup Matt Forde knows

:37:17.:37:19.

about animosity in politics. I think he gets heckled more

:37:20.:37:23.

than most comedians, Farage. Matt Forde joins us. Welcome to the

:37:24.:37:41.

programme. Pleasure. Where does all this animosity come from these days?

:37:42.:37:45.

There has always been some fair but it's a new era. Social media has

:37:46.:37:52.

fuelled some of it and a lot of politicians are to blame.

:37:53.:37:54.

Politicians often talk politics down. One of the most frustrating

:37:55.:38:00.

elements of the modern era is when somebody is any office saying, I am

:38:01.:38:04.

not a politician. If you are standing for office, by definition

:38:05.:38:12.

you are. Like Donald Trump. Farage, a lot of Ukip, Jeremy Corbyn plays

:38:13.:38:15.

on it a bit, and I don't know any industry where somebody stands for a

:38:16.:38:21.

job and says, the industry is rubbish. I don't say, comedy is

:38:22.:38:25.

clap, come and see me but the rest is awful. It's a contradiction, and

:38:26.:38:29.

I think that's given a green light to the rest of the public to be

:38:30.:38:34.

atrocious. Do you think this animosity has always been around,

:38:35.:38:38.

that social media is democratised it, in the sense that it's amplified

:38:39.:38:42.

it and it become an echo chamber of animosity? It's giving people an

:38:43.:38:47.

outlet for knee jerk reactions. People used to just watch TV and

:38:48.:38:51.

shout at it. Sometimes you need to let it out. Instead, people now have

:38:52.:38:57.

a platform for things where it's often just blind rage if you have

:38:58.:39:02.

encountered it on social media, often, when you get into a

:39:03.:39:05.

discussion with somebody who has been abusive, they often take it

:39:06.:39:09.

back and apologise. Wright the greatest animosity often comes from

:39:10.:39:14.

those on social media who have bizarre names, not their own names.

:39:15.:39:18.

They are very brave, hiding behind in the Midi, aren't you? Social

:39:19.:39:24.

media is the equivalent of a windscreen. You know how people

:39:25.:39:31.

swear when they are in a car in a windscreen. Social media is like

:39:32.:39:39.

that. I want to address David Beckham's animosity. I think the

:39:40.:39:43.

honours system is deeply corrupting. I think it's gone so badly wrong,

:39:44.:39:48.

and to see people so hungry for honours I think, is sickening. You

:39:49.:39:55.

know, it is very hard to be fair with an honours system at any level,

:39:56.:40:00.

but at the top level the awards are going for many of the wrong reasons.

:40:01.:40:04.

Even at the lower level, giving a MBE to somebody who has done nursing

:40:05.:40:09.

or community work for 20 years, we don't know if somebody else would be

:40:10.:40:14.

equally deserving. I think the system is corrupt. If the Lords

:40:15.:40:18.

voted against Brexit, we could get rid of the Lords and the honours

:40:19.:40:22.

system in one go. You are on the receiving end of a lot of nasty mess

:40:23.:40:26.

and animosity when you ran for Labour leader a couple years ago. Is

:40:27.:40:31.

there more around, do you think, all we are more aware of it? I think we

:40:32.:40:38.

are more aware of it. It's true that people, people are surprised

:40:39.:40:43.

somehow, oh, you see, yes, I have. It's also that, somebody once said,

:40:44.:40:49.

in today's world, we can travel further and further distances at our

:40:50.:40:55.

circles of reference are getting smaller, and people are so surprised

:40:56.:40:58.

when people have different views, they and attack. I have never known

:40:59.:41:06.

politics to be so divisive. Do you think there is more animosity in

:41:07.:41:12.

politics? I think so. Partly because people don't want to engage deeply

:41:13.:41:15.

with an argument and understand the nuance and it's simpler to say, we

:41:16.:41:20.

disagree, you must be evil, I'm in the right and I'm going to listen to

:41:21.:41:23.

people who agree with me. In life it's thrilling to sit opposite

:41:24.:41:27.

somebody you disagree with and have a great conversation, whether it is

:41:28.:41:30.

Liz and Michael en This Week or politicians. The thrill of sitting

:41:31.:41:35.

opposite somebody you disagree with and feeling very company is

:41:36.:41:39.

something we have lost. I remember the animosity to Mrs Thatcher,

:41:40.:41:46.

Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock... There was a lot of animosity to your good

:41:47.:41:52.

self, entirely unjustified. Mainly, to Margaret Thatcher. Then we went

:41:53.:41:57.

through a period where we were deeply worried about apathy. The BBC

:41:58.:42:02.

used to worry deeply about it. We used to have seminars on it! We did.

:42:03.:42:11.

We all went. Better than working! Is one worry we no longer have. It is

:42:12.:42:17.

true that there is animosity around but, if you look at how engaged the

:42:18.:42:21.

country got in the Scottish referendum, then the European

:42:22.:42:25.

referendum, then Donald Trump, people may not like the result but

:42:26.:42:29.

they were engaged. Yes, but sometimes there is a price to be

:42:30.:42:34.

paid. If it is more aggression, more nasty nests, I'm not entirely

:42:35.:42:39.

convinced that it's a worth paying. Good question. What are you up to at

:42:40.:42:44.

the moment? I'm on tour, Birmingham this weekend. This Saturday at the

:42:45.:42:52.

old Vic theatre. Thank you for your time. No animosity, I hope. No

:42:53.:42:55.

animosity. That's your lot for

:42:56.:42:56.

tonight, but not for us. However, we're not

:42:57.:42:58.

going to Annabel's. Despite decades of loyalty,

:42:59.:42:59.

they've cranked up their membership fees and doubled the price

:43:00.:43:02.

of Blue Nun. Instead, we're off to join Diane

:43:03.:43:08.

in Big Nick's Speakeasy, Hackney. Diane's been dancing

:43:09.:43:15.

in Big Nick's for years and, now she's thrown off the Brexit flu,

:43:16.:43:19.

we're sure tonight Michael is quite agog

:43:20.:43:21.

at the prospect. In this week of housing crisis,

:43:22.:43:26.

Brexit turmoil and Trump diplomacy, take comfort in knowing that you can

:43:27.:43:29.

always trust your politicians to Nighty-night, don't let

:43:30.:43:35.

the rabid seagulls bite. I've had a number of constituents

:43:36.:43:52.

contact me regarding overzealous and aggressive seagulls. There is no

:43:53.:43:57.

dispute that seagulls are beginning to behave badly. The Aberdeen

:43:58.:44:07.

Seagull is the size of a large dog. It is a proper health and safety

:44:08.:44:14.

risk to our citizens. Nothing can really be safely eaten on the shore

:44:15.:44:19.

front without risking life and limb at the hands, or should I say the

:44:20.:44:24.

beak of a vicious Seagull. People are having to take it into their own

:44:25.:44:27.

hands to deal with these difficult and aggressive birds, which means

:44:28.:44:32.

there are people wandering the streets of Berwick. A number of

:44:33.:44:37.

people have visited A as a result of being injured a Seagull. People

:44:38.:44:39.

are living with seagulls. CROWD CLAMOURS

:44:40.:44:46.

Karen! Hey, Julie.

:44:47.:44:47.

JULIE LAUGHS Have you heard where they found her?

:44:48.:44:49.

No. Have you? Tell her she owes you

:44:50.:44:53.

the truth as a mate. 'You haven't lost you faith

:44:54.:44:59.

in people...have you?'

:45:00.:45:03.

Andrew Neil reviews the political week with Michael Portillo and Liz Kendall, with a film potentially mocking the week from Andy Parsons.

Their guests are journalist and commentator Liam Halligan looking at the housing market, while Matt Forde talks about animosity in the spotlight section.