Browse content similar to 02/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
It's a great show, wonderful show, never miss it. | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
We've got Derek Hatton, great guy, my kind of socialist. | :00:12. | :00:20. | |
There's a crazed individual running America. | :00:21. | :00:31. | |
The world is a different place than it was six months ago. | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
I'm not sure Jeremy Corbyn clicked that when he voted | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
Fake news hater and total loser, Adam Boulton is here to | :00:38. | :00:45. | |
spread terrible lies and be terribly biased. | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
His organisation is terrible, by the way. | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
Yes, Donald, I'm here spreading the usual rubbish. | :00:50. | :00:56. | |
After all, it is for that failing pile of garbage This Week. | :00:57. | :01:05. | |
Are those the words of a great statesman? | :01:06. | :01:41. | |
We'll be talking about that later on. | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
And now it's time to say Andrew Neil. | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
That's not a name, by the way, that's an executive order. | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
A week in which this programme decided to jump | :01:53. | :02:07. | |
on the "let's-have-a-ban" band wagon by introducing extreme vetting | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
of politicians who want to migrate to our sofa to determine if there's | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
the slightest possibility they might give a straight answer | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
So far not one of them has passed this simple test and we're minded | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
to keep our borders shut until they do. | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
Speaking of politicians, we bring the news you've | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
all been waiting for, Diane Abbott is on her way | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
The nation's heart sank when it learnt that she'd been struck down | :02:30. | :02:38. | |
It's been doing the rounds here in Westminster, | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
especially on the Labour benches, and is known to be particularly | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
virulent when it strikes just before a key vote on leaving the EU. | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
It was a lucky break for the Government which, | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
with Diane in intensive care in the back room of the Brexit Bar, | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
Hackney, managed to scrape through the vote on Article 50 | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
We're only five weeks into the new year and it's already | :03:01. | :03:11. | |
Today the Government droned on about Brexit, | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
padding out a Theresa May speech into a 77-page white paper, | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
Jeremy Corbyn planned a cabinet reshuffle, | :03:18. | :03:19. | |
Nigel Farage was on TV, Tim Farron wasn't and the Scot Nats | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
remained in their permanent state of confected anger. | :03:25. | :03:26. | |
It felt a bit like Groundhog Day - probably because it was - again. | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
Speaking of those who've been repeating themselves ad nauseum | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
for as long anybody can remember, I'm joined on the sofa tonight | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
by Michael #choo-choo Portillo and Harriet #it's time we had | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
a female Dr Who and why not me since I'm used to travelling | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
in confined spaces in my little pink election bus Harman. | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
I guess she's also used to dealing with Daleks since she's worked | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
Michael, your moment of the week. The Brexit vote. For decades, the | :03:56. | :04:08. | |
House of Commons was deaf to those who wanted to talk about the loss of | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
Parliamentary sovereignty and those who raise the subject word derided | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
and humiliated and mocked. And now, to see the House of Commons voting | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
to restore its sovereignty, to bring power back to the United Kingdom, by | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
a majority of 384, is testimony to the extraordinary reversal of the | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
last year. And whatever you think about it, it has to be rated as an | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
historic moment. Harriet. The same historic moment but from a rather | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
different perspective. It was walking through the division lobby | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
with 400 plus others, and there were 400 actually who were for Remain. So | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
this was 400 MPs going through the division lobby to ratify a | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
referendum for a result we didn't want. In our ears was ringing the | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
speech of George Osborne, who was basically saying, forget about this | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
vote. This happened in June with the referendum decision. But now we have | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
to have bills to decide what we will do about agricultural subsidy, no | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
more common Agricultural Policy. What are we going to do about that? | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
It is just a moment, not an agenda. There is more to come, it was only | :05:24. | :05:26. | |
the start, and not in a And now to what's become our | :05:27. | :05:27. | |
new regular feature, This time nearly a quarter | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
of his MPs defied him by voting Three of them were whips tasked | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
with enforcing Jezza's order to vote for Article 50 and 17 | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
were in his front bench team, so I think it's fair to say party | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
discipline is not at its strongest. If they all resign, on top | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
of all the previous resignations, he could run out of MPs | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
to populate his shadow team and you'll soon hear the sound | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
of tumbleweed drifting So what do Jezza's old Militant | :05:54. | :05:54. | |
comrades make of it all? Here's Derek Hatton | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
with his take of the week. It's always been argued, rightly so, | :06:01. | :06:20. | |
that socialism is international. But I can't claim I've ever been | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
the biggest fan of the EU. Probably for the reason that | :06:24. | :06:31. | |
I was more concerned about increasing the alliance | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
with America, even before Trump, And now it feels like | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
we are stepping into some Brexit is now more dangerous | :06:41. | :06:49. | |
than ever with Trump A real mad man, a relationship | :06:50. | :07:01. | |
with America is frightening. In 2003, Jeremy Corbyn marched | :07:02. | :07:17. | |
against the disgraceful Yesterday, I feel he got it wrong | :07:18. | :07:19. | |
in giving his support to Theresa May and the Tories over triggering | :07:20. | :07:33. | |
Article 50. I do understand the democracy | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
argument, but I don't believe the majority of people who voted | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
for Brexit actually imagined for one second that we'd be having | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
an alliance with a vicious Trump We have now got a mad | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
man in the White House. There's no necessity whatsoever | :07:46. | :08:00. | |
for Jeremy Corbyn to be seen He should be providing a real | :08:01. | :08:02. | |
alternative against vicious, vicious Tory Government supporting | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
Trump. I was even more delighted | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
when he got elected the second time. But this is a monumental issue and, | :08:13. | :08:21. | |
quite honestly, it's And from the Mercado Metropolitano | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
Backyard Cinema in South London to the This Week studio, | :08:25. | :08:38. | |
Derek Hatton is with us now. Welcome to the programme, good to | :08:39. | :08:53. | |
see you. You say you now have serious doubts about Jeremy Corbyn. | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
What would you have Labour do about it? I did not say I had serious | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
doubts, I said it made me think. You wrote two days ago in the Liverpool | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
Echo, this shows a real lack of leadership on his part and stars now | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
make me have serious doubts about him. You shouldn't believe | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
everything you read in the press. But you wrote it! Harold Wilson once | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
said a long, long time ago, a week is a long time in politics. On this | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
issue, six months is a lifetime. I do not believe for a second that the | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
majority of people who voted for Brexit six months ago actually | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
believed that they were going to see a Trump Administration... You said | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
that in the film. My question is, what would you have Labour do about | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
Jeremy Corbyn? I understand you have invited me because you want me to | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
hammer Jeremy Corbyn, but that is not the main reason I am talking | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
about this. What I am saying is that Brexit in and of itself now is far | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
more dangerous than it was in June, because of Trump in America. And I | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
don't think people realise that there is a danger that we could | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
become the 51st state, if we don't actually start thinking about this. | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
I was never a real fan of Europe, but at the end of the day, I would | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
much rather have the devil that I knew there than the mad devil that I | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
don't know in the White House. Labour has already lost Scotland, | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
lost the south of England, outside London. Most Labour constituencies | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
in the North voted for Brexit, big-time. Wouldn't your position now | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
just lose Labour the north, too? No, because it is not about saying that | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
is the way people are. We have to talk to people, almost like it is | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
another education job. I don't think people have clicked the reality of | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
what Brexit means, particularly with Trump in the White House. I | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
understand because you have said it six times. What is your take? Derek | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
is saying what the sectarian left have always said. They are saying | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
the public have to be told they have got it wrong. It is obviously right | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
that the situation is more dangerous for our economy with Trump being a | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
protectionist in the White House. Of course it is. So Theresa May should | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
be careful about being so rejectionist of our economic | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
partners in Europe. We need that trade, so she should think again | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
about it. But the idea that what we should do to people who previously | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
voted Labour and voted Leave is to give them a talking to about how | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
they have got it wrong... That is not what I am saying. Was Mr Corbyn | :11:45. | :11:52. | |
writes to put on a three line whip? Yes. But if you are a leader putting | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
a three line whip on for something people find very difficult, and in | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
opposition most of the choices are bad choices because you are not | :12:04. | :12:05. | |
setting the context, just reacting, you need to at least have some | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
confidence from the people and to be able to cajole them and have them go | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
with you. That is the difficulty, because he cannot command their | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
loyalty because he did not show loyalty. But he is right in saying | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
that the Article 50 vote was taken in June and this is just | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
ratification. Let's go onto the next discussion about the future. What is | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
your take? A stopped clock is right twice a day, so Jeremy Corbyn is | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
from time to time right, and he was right about imposing a three line | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
whip. It was important that the Labour Party should have a position | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
and the position he selected for the Labour Party was the correct | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
position. For the Labour Party to appear to be indifferent or opposed | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
to the popular vote would be suicidal for the Labour Party. As | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
far as the Trump thing is concerned, I am tempted to add it to the great | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
achievements of David Cameron, who got us into this mess in the first | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
place. One thinks the Brexit vote played a part in the success of | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
Trump. It certainly... He thinks it did. It certainly gave him more | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
confidence to think he could win. As how Trump plays into all of this, I | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
think in the end because he is so hostile to the European Union and | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
Germany in particular, in the context of the endgame, the | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
political endgame in two years' time, the European Union will be | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
very frightened. And my guess is that will make for a softer Brexit | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
than otherwise. Although I accept it could lead to the opposite reaction. | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
What is your reply to Harriet, that people did know what they were | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
voting for? They had a gut instinct and they wanted to leave. And you | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
talking to them on the doorstep is not going to make them change their | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
mind. When we talk about the popular vote, 52-48 is not a massive | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
majority. It is a majority but not a massive majority. People voted | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
Brexit for a lot of reasons. The day after Brexit I was walking along the | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
road and someone came up who said, we got them, didn't we? He was | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
saying, we got one over on the establishment, which was his reason | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
for voting Brexit. I think a lot of people certainly had a change of | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
mind afterwards. But even more so now since Trump has emerged in | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
America. More people are having to think again. I don't think it is a | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
case of saying, this is what you should do. That is the reason why I | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
thought Jeremy should not have gone that way yesterday and given more | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
time to see what evolves and emerges. I don't think it is going | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
to be plain sailing. There is a test coming up, the Stoke by-election, | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
which was Brexit Central in terms of the referendum, 70% of the people | :15:03. | :15:10. | |
voting to leave. Labour is running with a staunchly pro-Remain | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
candidate. If you lose, your theory has crashed on take-off. Not that | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
all because yesterday people saw Jeremy taking a particular | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
alignment. It is almost as though he cannot win either way. If they lose | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
Stoke, people will say what you have said. If they win, they will say it | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
is because Jeremy went against yesterday. I just don't believe we | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
are in a position where it is as easy as it was in June. It is far | :15:38. | :15:50. | |
harder now. Labour is now split over this in the way we always thought | :15:51. | :15:58. | |
the Tories were. The party would have been divided and will remain | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
divided on this issue with the votes that are coming up. It will be a | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
running sword for Labour the way Maastricht was for the Tories. It | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
will be a big challenge undoubtedly and I think the problems that we are | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
facing now didn't start with Jeremy Corbyn, they've been a long time | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
coming. But the question is whether or not he can convince people that | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
he is the solution and that Labour is the solution to those problems | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
because actually hoping that you can just tell people that they've been | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
duped and got it wrong and telling people the Tories are awful, most | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
people in stoke think the Tories are awful anyway and thought they were | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
awful in the 80s but they wouldn't vote for us until we won their trust | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
again and that's what we have got to do. | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
The reason the Labour Party is defeatist at the moment and facing | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
the abyss is not because it's split on Europe, it's because it's chosen | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
Jeremy Corbyn as its leader. Let's get the sequence right. In your | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
heart, don't you feel that Labour's sleep walking to a calamitous | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
defeat? I don't know. Who knows what is going to happen in stoke. But I'm | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
not sure that Michael's particularly right saying it's all about Jeremy. | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
I don't think that is right at all. What it is is the Labour Party's | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
gone through a massive transition and, as I said on the film, I | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
supported Jeremy the first time, was delighted the second time he got | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
elected. I think the amount of people that have joined the Labour | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
Party and getting active and politicised is the best for decades. | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
I love that and think more and more people are getting involved. I think | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
that will lead to more electoral success because those people will | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
breed other people will breed other people. Do you remember Neil Kinnock | :17:40. | :17:47. | |
saying to people like yourself don't mistake the enthusiasm of the | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
minority for the support of the majority? We can have all the fair | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
men but we have got to reach out... We never lost an election. Derek, | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
you're enthusiastic about what's happened to the Labour Party and so | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
are we. I don't know who he means by "we", maybe it's a Royal we. Nice to | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
see you again, thanks for being with us. | :18:15. | :18:30. | |
But titter ye not, we've all been deeply concerned | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
Comrade McDonnell mentioned some of her symptoms; headaches, | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
dehydration and empty bottles of Blue Nun, scary stuff! | :18:40. | :18:41. | |
For those of you also suffering from Brexit fever, | :18:42. | :18:43. | |
fear not because waiting in the wings is impersonator | :18:44. | :18:46. | |
in chief, Rory Bremner, putting statesmanship | :18:47. | :18:47. | |
In the meantime, probably best to stay away from the Facebooze, | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
try not to get totally Twittered, you'll only Snapcrash and end | :18:53. | :18:54. | |
Labour is now split over this in the way we always thought | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
The party would have been divided and will remain | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
divided on this issue with the votes that are coming up. | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
It will be a running sword for Labour the way | :19:07. | :19:08. | |
Now, time for some more good news - no we haven't been taken off air. | :19:09. | :19:16. | |
I'm talking about the Bank of England rosy reforecast | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
of economic growth this year, reversing its warning | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
that the economy would go to hell in a hand basket if we were stupid | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
Now it's predicting the same growth this year as it did when it thought | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
So who's the stupid one now, Governor Carney? | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
Anyway, here's Sky News' Adam Boulton with his political | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
I should have known when This Week told me all I had to do | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
was to escape to Brexit that it wouldn't be easy. | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
I'm heading straight for the BBC cooler. | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
The week began with a reminder of the crisis in social care. | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
Minister David Mowatt said the children of elderly parents | :19:55. | :19:57. | |
should take primary responsibility for them, not the state. | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
I suppose it might be one way of saving money. | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
Nobody ever questions the fact that parents, | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
that we look after our children, that's just obvious and some | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
of the way we think about that, in terms of the volume of numbers | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
we see coming down the track, will have to imping on the way | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
that we start thinking about how we look after our parents. | :20:23. | :20:24. | |
Rather than concerns about people who're already stuck here, | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
the week's biggest row was about where people might | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
President Trump's migration ban in the name of national security | :20:33. | :20:45. | |
and fighting terrorism sparked protests across the globe. | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
Eventually, the Foreign Secretary said that the UK didn't agree | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
with the American policy but still needed to work with the US | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
So this is not an approach that this Government would take. | :21:03. | :21:11. | |
But let me conclude by reminding the House of the vital importance | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
of this country's alliance with the United States, | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
the defence intelligence which I'm sure they appreciate and understand | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
Nigel Farage complete with Trump lapel badge explained the benefits | :21:26. | :21:37. | |
of the policy to the European Parliament. | :21:38. | :21:49. | |
Trump is motivated by protecting the United States of America | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
from Islamic terrorism, whereas what has happened in this | :21:53. | :21:54. | |
room and in governments around Europe is you have welcomed these | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
One Labour MEP made it clear what he thought of Mr Farage. | :21:58. | :22:05. | |
It is the unelected commission that have the sole right | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
Never mind stopping people getting in, I have to get out of here. | :22:11. | :22:20. | |
Jeremy Corbyn lead on Trump at PMQs, the Labour leader wanting to know | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
why Mrs May couldn't withdraw the invitation to Trump to meet | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
Just what more does President Trump have to do before the Prime Minister | :22:31. | :22:40. | |
will listen to the 1.8 million people who have already | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
called for his state visit invitation to be withdrawn? | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
But the Prime Minister batted him off with a dose of real politic | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
and a dash of backbench pleasing tub thumping. | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
Would he have been able to protect British citizens from the impact | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
Would he have been able to lay the foundations of a trade deal? | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
Would he have got a 100% commitment to Nato? | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
Parliament got its supreme court ordered chance to debate triggering | :23:11. | :23:37. | |
The government said it didn't make any difference. | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
We asked the people of the UK if they wanted to leave | :23:43. | :23:45. | |
At the core of this bill lies a simple question. | :23:46. | :23:54. | |
Labour was ordered to support the government, | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
Two thirds of Labour MPs represent constituencies that voted to leave. | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
One third represent constituencies that voted to remain. | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
This is obviously a difficult decision. | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
No one doubted the outcome of the vote to leave, | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
but a string of Remainers had their say. | :24:24. | :24:25. | |
Democracy means not giving up your sleeves when the | :24:26. | :24:34. | |
Democracy means not giving up your beliefs when the | :24:35. | :24:36. | |
The government has decided not to make the economy the | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
They have prioritised immigration control, | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
a clear message from the | :24:46. | :24:46. | |
We are combining withdrawal from the single | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
market and the customs union with this great | :24:51. | :24:52. | |
new globalised future, which offers tremendous | :24:53. | :24:54. | |
Apparently, you follow the rabbit down the hole, | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
The right honourable member yesterday | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
But Alice only took herself into the hole. | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
This Prime Minister is taking virtually all of the Tory party, | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
half the Labour Party and the entire country into the hole. | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
Thank God they are building a third runway atHeathrow. | :25:13. | :25:29. | |
It's a nightmare getting out of here. | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
Looks like we're going to have to jump for it. | :25:35. | :25:47. | |
Oi, escape to Brexit, it's the will of the people! | :25:48. | :26:13. | |
Adam Boulton with production values you don't normally see on TV. | :26:14. | :26:33. | |
Probably just as well! Does this Brexit white paper tell us | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
anything new that we didn't know already? | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
It tells us that apparently you can spin out a very thin set of thoughts | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
to 77 pages. I'm impressed. With the help of charts and graphs and | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
repeating all manner of things, even putting in the SNP policies. And of | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
course the fact that it was printed the day after the debate sort of | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
told us how very relevant it was to the hole matter. Is Brexit now | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
unstoppable? I think it was decided in June. I mean, if you are having a | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
referendum and the Conservatives won the election with the manifesto | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
commitment to an in-out referendum, so once they'd won the election, we | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
were going to have a referendum, we had the referendum then we lost it, | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
albeit by a narrow majority, but we lost it. Therefore now we need to | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
move on to the issues that do need to be decided. In relation to the | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
white paper, and I agree with Michael, I don't know what is more | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
alarming, the idea that you've got a Government that is doing the wrong | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
thing or the idea that you've got a Government that doesn't seem to have | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
a clue what it's doing. And quite often, that is what it sounds like | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
at the moment. You know, they're talking about being tough on | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
immigration at exactly the same time as the training places for nurses is | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
falling by 23%. So what are we going to do? Stop the nurses coming from | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
Portugal and Spain? There are a whole load of things that don't seem | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
to be adding up. We have twice as much trade with Europe as we have | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
with America, America is going protectionist. Maybe not with us. Mr | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
Trump wants a free trade bill, so maybe not with us? The idea that we | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
are going to have exceptional special place, when he was asked is | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
Britain at the front of the queue then for his trade deal, he said, | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
oh, you're doing great. He didn't answer. His add Jens is not us, his | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
audience is the US. Hence the invitation to make a state visit. We | :28:31. | :28:36. | |
are trying to buy something. If an amendment was put down to Article | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
50, I know what it would be called, but if it said that, as we do this, | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
we guarantee the status of the three million plus EU citizens who live | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
here, that we don't want to make them a bargaining card regardless of | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
how our ex-pats will be treatd by the EU, we are going to do that | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
because we believe it's the right thing to do, that could get through | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
Parliament could it not? There is a majority in Parliament to do it as I | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
understand it. Whether it gets called and becomes part of the Bill | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
is a different issue. Ask the woman behind the amendment. I've tabled | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
it. We should do. We shouldn't use people who've been here sometimes | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
two, three decades, as a bargaining chip for people... I would think it | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
were extraordinary if it were called. Have you had any guidance? | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
I'm sure it will be within scope and it should be selected because it | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
will get a lot of support. But also businesses don't want the sense that | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
somehow the people that are working for them, whether in construction, | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
in agriculture, in care, are those care homes suddenly going to... I | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
must say it's a non-point. It's perfectly clear that people here now | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
will be able to stay, it's a question of whether when that | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
Government makes it clear. It's not clear to them at all. There is | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
concern, even though we think it's clear, they are worried because they | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
haven't had it guaranteed. And the idea of using it as a bargaining | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
chip in respect of our citizens abroad is completely wrong. Does | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
anybody seriously think that this country will pay 60 billion euro | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
exit fee? I don't think we will but I think we will pay quite a lot of | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
money as part of this deal. As an exit fee or paying for access, | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
privileged access to the single market? Well. It will be the same | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
things. Exactly. Paying for privileged access, but it could be | :30:40. | :30:41. | |
presented in different ways. It's interesting. I don't think the | :30:42. | :30:52. | |
Government has ever closed down this option. When you don't close down an | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
option, it implies that you have the option in mind. Actually, I think | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
paying money to the European Union after we have left would be deeply | :31:02. | :31:07. | |
unpopular. At least as unpopular as immigration, free movement from the | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
European Union. Nonetheless, it seems the Government seems that -- | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
believes it has some leveraged with money. It would be unpopular. Of | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
course. The government is confronting a whole load of things | :31:22. | :31:24. | |
which appear to be different from what they promised. They promised we | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
would save ?350 million to put in the NHS. It now looks as though just | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
to leave we have to pay out money. The Government didn't promise that. | :31:35. | :31:44. | |
The Leave campaign. The Leave campaign said, take back control on | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
immigration and that was understood by people as having fewer | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
immigrants. It wasn't about control, it was about the message being sent | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
of having fewer immigrants. I have asked Theresa May questions, are we | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
going to have a few EU nationals doing agriculture, doing | :32:03. | :32:04. | |
construction, what about care industry? Answer comes there none. | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
She was for Remain but she is leading a Leave government. Your | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
party will need an immigration policy, too. Any sign of that? Well, | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
it will have to be developed. As will the Government's policy. Can | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
you give us any word to a worried nation about Diane Abbott tonight? | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
Any update. I think that Diane, who was on Question Time last Thursday | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
setting out very firmly why she was going to vote for Article 50, I | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
can't imagine that she would not have carried that through unless she | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
was ill. Because she had a ready been on Question Time, which are | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
constituents would have watched, as well as this programme, and they | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
would have heard her arguing that the right thing to do unfortunately | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
is to vote for Article 50. I have not put a soothing hand on her | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
forehead or taken her temperature, but I suspect she is unwell. If you | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
do, give her our good wishes. We will probably have a moment of | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
silence, just to pray. Actually, we do not have time. | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
So folks, we've all been attending Trump University's diplomacy courses | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
and after three days and $50,000 in fees we've already graduated. | :33:21. | :33:22. | |
Michael has begun building a wall around his house, | :33:23. | :33:24. | |
so he can stop himself from stealing British people's' jobs, | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
plus protect himself from the bad hombres out there. | :33:28. | :33:29. | |
And Harriet has been appointed Trump's special envoy to Australia, | :33:30. | :33:31. | |
I mean what could possibly go wrong with Australian-American relations? | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
Theresa May and Donald Trump took statesmanship to intimate | :33:36. | :33:48. | |
I think you are also Theresa and I believe we are going | :33:49. | :33:57. | |
MPs quickly compared their courtship to Britain's dark, diplomatic past. | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
Now this Government's hand in hand with another fascist, Trump. | :34:01. | :34:08. | |
Why on earth, has Theresa the appeaser got him | :34:09. | :34:10. | |
Both Nicolae Ceausescu and Robert Mugabe have been entertained | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
What happens when you just don't get on? | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
President Trump reportedly put the phone down on Australian Prime | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
Minister Malcolm Turnbull after discussing the refugee | :34:26. | :34:26. | |
settlement deal that he later called dumb. | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
It's better that these things, these conversations, | :34:33. | :34:33. | |
are conducted candidly, frankly, privately. | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
You'll see reports of them, I'm not going to add to them. | :34:39. | :34:46. | |
Nigel Farage confirmed his imperious statesmanship might feature | :34:47. | :34:48. | |
It's early days, there's no script, we don't know how it's going to end, | :34:49. | :35:00. | |
Impressionist Rory Bremner has impersonated a few leading | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
And Nigel Farage, I mean Rory Bremner is with us now. | :35:06. | :35:20. | |
Welcome. That was a bit of satire, wasn't it? Do we recognise | :35:21. | :35:29. | |
statesmanship at the time, or is it only later that we recognise it? | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
Possibly it is when we look back. It is a coming together of two things. | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
It is a leader and a moment in time. Leader plus moment in time equals | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
statesman. You think of Franklin Roosevelt, or Churchill during the | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
war. But there can be moments. In South Africa, De Klerk and Mandela. | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
We think of Mandela, but De Klerk played a huge role in that. There | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
can also be moments when people come together. You think about Tony Blair | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
and the Northern Ireland peace agreement. I feel the hand of | :36:06. | :36:11. | |
history on my shoulder. This is no time for sound bites, but I feel the | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
hand of history on my shoulder. That was a moment of statesmanship. John | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
Major, again, very much involved with that. There can be moments of | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
statesmanship but it is a coming together of two things. The opposite | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
applies. Look at Europe in the last year, a failure of statesmanship, | :36:30. | :36:35. | |
not just by David Cameron. Earlier, you were talking about David Cameron | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
having not a statesman-like approach last year. And in Europe, if there | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
had been a statesman in Europe more than anything else who could stand | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
up and say to Europe, and actually put the case for Europe and bring | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
Europe together and say that Europe needs to reform. You can see what is | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
happening in Britain and the Netherlands. It was the lack of that | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
which put us where we are now. There are people in France who think they | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
are the one for that. Are we short of statesmen at the moment? Yes, I | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
think so. I largely agree with Rory's analysis. Sometimes it is not | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
easy to know what statesmanship is at the time. When Chamberlain came | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
back from Munich he was cheered to the rafters, received on the balcony | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
of Buckingham Palace by the well family, considered a great moment of | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
statesmanship. On the other hand, when Churchill became Prime Minister | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
and made speeches which have gone down in history, he was not cheered | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
by his own Conservative benches for his first year in office as wartime | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
Prime Minister. It was a long time before his own party would recognise | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
he was achieving as Prime Minister. It sounds to me like what raw and | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
Michael are talking about the good old days. Donald Trump has torn up | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
the rules and it is post-protocol politics now. He is on the world | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
stage like the political equivalent of the global financial crisis. I | :38:03. | :38:09. | |
remember Gordon Brown saying, the global financial crisis is tearing | :38:10. | :38:11. | |
everything up and we need to leap over and ahead of it in order to get | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
some sort of control over the situation. I think that is the case | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
with Trump. He is burning his route, and everyone is sitting back and | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
reacting. That is not going to be a good thing. That is why I think that | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
handholding, walking holding hands, it doesn't look to me like Theresa | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
May is jumping ahead of the Trump phenomenon and actually controlling | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
the situation. She got 100% commitment on Nato. She should have | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
had a briefing which said, stay well clear when you walk beside him. How | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
would anybody know that? It is understandable, they were walking | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
down the steps and he took her hand. There is another interpretation that | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
he does not like steps, so he took her hand to help himself. It was to | :39:02. | :39:09. | |
stop her running away. The difference is that statesmen or | :39:10. | :39:17. | |
women bring people together as opposed to divide. Dictators and | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
demagogues divide. Statesmen and states women bring people together. | :39:21. | :39:29. | |
And they rise above party. Churchill and FDR were above party. There is | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
kind of Vanins Thracian. You talk about Churchill in May in 1940 when | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
he had to persuade the Cabinet. There is a sense of inspiration, | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
some greatness breathed into somebody at a moment in history. Who | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
is to know? Maybe history judges it. Who would you describe as a states | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
person today? Oh, Lord! I can't see any on the horizon. Wouldn't it be | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
amazing if we had... Look at the Islamic world. If we had a sunny | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
Mandela and a Shi'ite De Klerk saying, listen, this is a great | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
relish and -- religion, and reclaim Islam from Isis, if you like. Who | :40:14. | :40:27. | |
have been great states women? Go on, Michael. What about Margaret | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
Thatcher. I thought Theresa May had echoes of Margaret Thatcher, post | :40:33. | :40:40. | |
traumatic stress syndrome. What do you think of his suggestion? Think | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
of Thatcher's role in world affairs, the fall of the Soviet Union, the | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
liberation of Eastern Europe, the restoration of democracy to millions | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
of people. My constituents were literally dying on hospital waiting | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
lists when she was cutting the NHS. You were in the Cabinet, Chief | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
secretary at the time. Whatever she was doing abroad, my view of her is | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
coloured by what was actually happening to my constituents. What | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
you are saying is entirely wrong. Public spending went marching | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
upwards year after year. Welcome to this Week, 1984, fighting the | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
battles again. The NHS was on its knees when you were in government. | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
What about Angela Merkel. Yes, she is popular at home. Statesmen are | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
often unpopular. Gorbachev, you could argue he was another one. | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
Statesmen are often unpopular at home. Churchill was unpopular at | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
home for a long time. Did Russia need Gorbachev at that moment? Did | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
Britain need Thatcher at that moment? I am not quite answer that | :41:59. | :42:07. | |
one, Harriet, either. Mrs Gandhi? Mrs Gandhi? I was thinking, was | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
Gandhi married? What are you doing these days? I am starting touring | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
next week. Jan ravens will join me, doing Theresa May. That starts on | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
choose day. Look up my tour. And I am doing a documentary on ADHD, and | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
a show at the Soho Theatre on Monday night. And Donald Trump will | :42:31. | :42:41. | |
feature? He will feature. There will be 100,000 people. It will be great, | :42:42. | :42:48. | |
so fantastic. Look at that. She is so hot there. How is the book going? | :42:49. | :43:00. | |
Good. It is published today, so it is early doors. You will get the | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
early returns in the morning. It has had lots of good publicity. | :43:06. | :43:12. | |
But not for us, we're off to Stoke on Trent for Paul Nuttall's | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
house-warming extravaganza, it's BYOB, of course. | :43:17. | :43:17. | |
But, come to think of it, he's said it's bring your own food too, | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
and your own wallpaper and your own furniture. | :43:22. | :43:23. | |
He's also texted to ask if any of us remember the address - weird. | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
Sadly for Michael's special relationship, | :43:27. | :43:27. | |
She doesn't want to jeopardise her recovery and would neverR attend | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
a social event at the expense of her health. | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
Nighty night, don't let the Brexit bug bite. | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party, | :43:42. | :43:43. | |
It's really important for people to understand that. | :43:44. | :43:51. | |
Could you give us two minutes of your time, Ms Abbott? | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
# I decree today that life is simply taking and not giving | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
How is she feeling, by the way, because apparently she wasn't | :44:01. | :44:10. | |
quite well enough go to the Commons yesterday? | :44:11. | :44:12. | |
Well, Diane will have to explain her own position. | :44:13. | :44:26. | |
It's not for me to explain Diane's actions. | :44:27. | :44:37. | |
It is extraordinary that Diane Abbott sneaks off, | :44:38. | :44:39. | |
You can't have it both ways in politics. | :44:40. | :44:42. | |
If you bottle the vote, it's cowardice. | :44:43. | :44:57. | |
I don't know any more than you do about Diane. | :44:58. | :44:58. | |
All I could say is, Diane, if you are watching, get well soon. | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
Indeed. I'm sure we all share that sentiment. | :45:03. | :45:03. |