02/02/2017 This Week


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02/02/2017

Andrew Neil reviews the political week with Michael Portillo and Harriet Harman, with a film from Adam Boulton. They are joined by Derek Hatton and Rory Bremner.


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Transcript


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It's a great show, wonderful show, never miss it.

:00:09.:00:11.

We've got Derek Hatton, great guy, my kind of socialist.

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There's a crazed individual running America.

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The world is a different place than it was six months ago.

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I'm not sure Jeremy Corbyn clicked that when he voted

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Fake news hater and total loser, Adam Boulton is here to

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spread terrible lies and be terribly biased.

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His organisation is terrible, by the way.

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Yes, Donald, I'm here spreading the usual rubbish.

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After all, it is for that failing pile of garbage This Week.

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Are those the words of a great statesman?

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We'll be talking about that later on.

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And now it's time to say Andrew Neil.

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That's not a name, by the way, that's an executive order.

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A week in which this programme decided to jump

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on the "let's-have-a-ban" band wagon by introducing extreme vetting

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of politicians who want to migrate to our sofa to determine if there's

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the slightest possibility they might give a straight answer

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So far not one of them has passed this simple test and we're minded

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to keep our borders shut until they do.

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Speaking of politicians, we bring the news you've

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all been waiting for, Diane Abbott is on her way

:02:27.:02:29.

The nation's heart sank when it learnt that she'd been struck down

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It's been doing the rounds here in Westminster,

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especially on the Labour benches, and is known to be particularly

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virulent when it strikes just before a key vote on leaving the EU.

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It was a lucky break for the Government which,

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with Diane in intensive care in the back room of the Brexit Bar,

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Hackney, managed to scrape through the vote on Article 50

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We're only five weeks into the new year and it's already

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Today the Government droned on about Brexit,

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padding out a Theresa May speech into a 77-page white paper,

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Jeremy Corbyn planned a cabinet reshuffle,

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Nigel Farage was on TV, Tim Farron wasn't and the Scot Nats

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remained in their permanent state of confected anger.

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It felt a bit like Groundhog Day - probably because it was - again.

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Speaking of those who've been repeating themselves ad nauseum

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for as long anybody can remember, I'm joined on the sofa tonight

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by Michael #choo-choo Portillo and Harriet #it's time we had

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a female Dr Who and why not me since I'm used to travelling

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in confined spaces in my little pink election bus Harman.

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I guess she's also used to dealing with Daleks since she's worked

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Michael, your moment of the week. The Brexit vote. For decades, the

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House of Commons was deaf to those who wanted to talk about the loss of

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Parliamentary sovereignty and those who raise the subject word derided

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and humiliated and mocked. And now, to see the House of Commons voting

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to restore its sovereignty, to bring power back to the United Kingdom, by

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a majority of 384, is testimony to the extraordinary reversal of the

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last year. And whatever you think about it, it has to be rated as an

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historic moment. Harriet. The same historic moment but from a rather

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different perspective. It was walking through the division lobby

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with 400 plus others, and there were 400 actually who were for Remain. So

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this was 400 MPs going through the division lobby to ratify a

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referendum for a result we didn't want. In our ears was ringing the

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speech of George Osborne, who was basically saying, forget about this

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vote. This happened in June with the referendum decision. But now we have

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to have bills to decide what we will do about agricultural subsidy, no

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more common Agricultural Policy. What are we going to do about that?

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It is just a moment, not an agenda. There is more to come, it was only

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the start, and not in a And now to what's become our

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new regular feature, This time nearly a quarter

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of his MPs defied him by voting Three of them were whips tasked

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with enforcing Jezza's order to vote for Article 50 and 17

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were in his front bench team, so I think it's fair to say party

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discipline is not at its strongest. If they all resign, on top

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of all the previous resignations, he could run out of MPs

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to populate his shadow team and you'll soon hear the sound

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of tumbleweed drifting So what do Jezza's old Militant

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comrades make of it all? Here's Derek Hatton

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with his take of the week. It's always been argued, rightly so,

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that socialism is international. But I can't claim I've ever been

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the biggest fan of the EU. Probably for the reason that

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I was more concerned about increasing the alliance

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with America, even before Trump, And now it feels like

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we are stepping into some Brexit is now more dangerous

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than ever with Trump A real mad man, a relationship

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with America is frightening. In 2003, Jeremy Corbyn marched

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against the disgraceful Yesterday, I feel he got it wrong

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in giving his support to Theresa May and the Tories over triggering

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Article 50. I do understand the democracy

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argument, but I don't believe the majority of people who voted

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for Brexit actually imagined for one second that we'd be having

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an alliance with a vicious Trump We have now got a mad

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man in the White House. There's no necessity whatsoever

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for Jeremy Corbyn to be seen He should be providing a real

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alternative against vicious, vicious Tory Government supporting

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Trump. I was even more delighted

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when he got elected the second time. But this is a monumental issue and,

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quite honestly, it's And from the Mercado Metropolitano

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Backyard Cinema in South London to the This Week studio,

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Derek Hatton is with us now. Welcome to the programme, good to

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see you. You say you now have serious doubts about Jeremy Corbyn.

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What would you have Labour do about it? I did not say I had serious

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doubts, I said it made me think. You wrote two days ago in the Liverpool

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Echo, this shows a real lack of leadership on his part and stars now

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make me have serious doubts about him. You shouldn't believe

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everything you read in the press. But you wrote it! Harold Wilson once

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said a long, long time ago, a week is a long time in politics. On this

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issue, six months is a lifetime. I do not believe for a second that the

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majority of people who voted for Brexit six months ago actually

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believed that they were going to see a Trump Administration... You said

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that in the film. My question is, what would you have Labour do about

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Jeremy Corbyn? I understand you have invited me because you want me to

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hammer Jeremy Corbyn, but that is not the main reason I am talking

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about this. What I am saying is that Brexit in and of itself now is far

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more dangerous than it was in June, because of Trump in America. And I

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don't think people realise that there is a danger that we could

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become the 51st state, if we don't actually start thinking about this.

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I was never a real fan of Europe, but at the end of the day, I would

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much rather have the devil that I knew there than the mad devil that I

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don't know in the White House. Labour has already lost Scotland,

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lost the south of England, outside London. Most Labour constituencies

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in the North voted for Brexit, big-time. Wouldn't your position now

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just lose Labour the north, too? No, because it is not about saying that

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is the way people are. We have to talk to people, almost like it is

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another education job. I don't think people have clicked the reality of

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what Brexit means, particularly with Trump in the White House. I

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understand because you have said it six times. What is your take? Derek

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is saying what the sectarian left have always said. They are saying

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the public have to be told they have got it wrong. It is obviously right

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that the situation is more dangerous for our economy with Trump being a

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protectionist in the White House. Of course it is. So Theresa May should

:11:23.:11:27.

be careful about being so rejectionist of our economic

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partners in Europe. We need that trade, so she should think again

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about it. But the idea that what we should do to people who previously

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voted Labour and voted Leave is to give them a talking to about how

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they have got it wrong... That is not what I am saying. Was Mr Corbyn

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writes to put on a three line whip? Yes. But if you are a leader putting

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a three line whip on for something people find very difficult, and in

:12:01.:12:03.

opposition most of the choices are bad choices because you are not

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setting the context, just reacting, you need to at least have some

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confidence from the people and to be able to cajole them and have them go

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with you. That is the difficulty, because he cannot command their

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loyalty because he did not show loyalty. But he is right in saying

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that the Article 50 vote was taken in June and this is just

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ratification. Let's go onto the next discussion about the future. What is

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your take? A stopped clock is right twice a day, so Jeremy Corbyn is

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from time to time right, and he was right about imposing a three line

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whip. It was important that the Labour Party should have a position

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and the position he selected for the Labour Party was the correct

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position. For the Labour Party to appear to be indifferent or opposed

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to the popular vote would be suicidal for the Labour Party. As

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far as the Trump thing is concerned, I am tempted to add it to the great

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achievements of David Cameron, who got us into this mess in the first

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place. One thinks the Brexit vote played a part in the success of

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Trump. It certainly... He thinks it did. It certainly gave him more

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confidence to think he could win. As how Trump plays into all of this, I

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think in the end because he is so hostile to the European Union and

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Germany in particular, in the context of the endgame, the

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political endgame in two years' time, the European Union will be

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very frightened. And my guess is that will make for a softer Brexit

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than otherwise. Although I accept it could lead to the opposite reaction.

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What is your reply to Harriet, that people did know what they were

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voting for? They had a gut instinct and they wanted to leave. And you

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talking to them on the doorstep is not going to make them change their

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mind. When we talk about the popular vote, 52-48 is not a massive

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majority. It is a majority but not a massive majority. People voted

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Brexit for a lot of reasons. The day after Brexit I was walking along the

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road and someone came up who said, we got them, didn't we? He was

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saying, we got one over on the establishment, which was his reason

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for voting Brexit. I think a lot of people certainly had a change of

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mind afterwards. But even more so now since Trump has emerged in

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America. More people are having to think again. I don't think it is a

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case of saying, this is what you should do. That is the reason why I

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thought Jeremy should not have gone that way yesterday and given more

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time to see what evolves and emerges. I don't think it is going

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to be plain sailing. There is a test coming up, the Stoke by-election,

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which was Brexit Central in terms of the referendum, 70% of the people

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voting to leave. Labour is running with a staunchly pro-Remain

:15:11.:15:14.

candidate. If you lose, your theory has crashed on take-off. Not that

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all because yesterday people saw Jeremy taking a particular

:15:20.:15:22.

alignment. It is almost as though he cannot win either way. If they lose

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Stoke, people will say what you have said. If they win, they will say it

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is because Jeremy went against yesterday. I just don't believe we

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are in a position where it is as easy as it was in June. It is far

:15:38.:15:50.

harder now. Labour is now split over this in the way we always thought

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the Tories were. The party would have been divided and will remain

:15:59.:16:01.

divided on this issue with the votes that are coming up. It will be a

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running sword for Labour the way Maastricht was for the Tories. It

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will be a big challenge undoubtedly and I think the problems that we are

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facing now didn't start with Jeremy Corbyn, they've been a long time

:16:16.:16:19.

coming. But the question is whether or not he can convince people that

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he is the solution and that Labour is the solution to those problems

:16:24.:16:28.

because actually hoping that you can just tell people that they've been

:16:29.:16:33.

duped and got it wrong and telling people the Tories are awful, most

:16:34.:16:36.

people in stoke think the Tories are awful anyway and thought they were

:16:37.:16:40.

awful in the 80s but they wouldn't vote for us until we won their trust

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again and that's what we have got to do.

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The reason the Labour Party is defeatist at the moment and facing

:16:48.:16:51.

the abyss is not because it's split on Europe, it's because it's chosen

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Jeremy Corbyn as its leader. Let's get the sequence right. In your

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heart, don't you feel that Labour's sleep walking to a calamitous

:16:59.:17:04.

defeat? I don't know. Who knows what is going to happen in stoke. But I'm

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not sure that Michael's particularly right saying it's all about Jeremy.

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I don't think that is right at all. What it is is the Labour Party's

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gone through a massive transition and, as I said on the film, I

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supported Jeremy the first time, was delighted the second time he got

:17:22.:17:24.

elected. I think the amount of people that have joined the Labour

:17:25.:17:27.

Party and getting active and politicised is the best for decades.

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I love that and think more and more people are getting involved. I think

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that will lead to more electoral success because those people will

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breed other people will breed other people. Do you remember Neil Kinnock

:17:40.:17:47.

saying to people like yourself don't mistake the enthusiasm of the

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minority for the support of the majority? We can have all the fair

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men but we have got to reach out... We never lost an election. Derek,

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you're enthusiastic about what's happened to the Labour Party and so

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are we. I don't know who he means by "we", maybe it's a Royal we. Nice to

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see you again, thanks for being with us.

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But titter ye not, we've all been deeply concerned

:18:31.:18:35.

Comrade McDonnell mentioned some of her symptoms; headaches,

:18:36.:18:39.

dehydration and empty bottles of Blue Nun, scary stuff!

:18:40.:18:41.

For those of you also suffering from Brexit fever,

:18:42.:18:43.

fear not because waiting in the wings is impersonator

:18:44.:18:46.

in chief, Rory Bremner, putting statesmanship

:18:47.:18:47.

In the meantime, probably best to stay away from the Facebooze,

:18:48.:18:52.

try not to get totally Twittered, you'll only Snapcrash and end

:18:53.:18:54.

Labour is now split over this in the way we always thought

:18:55.:18:58.

The party would have been divided and will remain

:18:59.:19:01.

divided on this issue with the votes that are coming up.

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It will be a running sword for Labour the way

:19:07.:19:08.

Now, time for some more good news - no we haven't been taken off air.

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I'm talking about the Bank of England rosy reforecast

:19:17.:19:20.

of economic growth this year, reversing its warning

:19:21.:19:23.

that the economy would go to hell in a hand basket if we were stupid

:19:24.:19:27.

Now it's predicting the same growth this year as it did when it thought

:19:28.:19:31.

So who's the stupid one now, Governor Carney?

:19:32.:19:34.

Anyway, here's Sky News' Adam Boulton with his political

:19:35.:19:37.

I should have known when This Week told me all I had to do

:19:38.:19:43.

was to escape to Brexit that it wouldn't be easy.

:19:44.:19:46.

I'm heading straight for the BBC cooler.

:19:47.:19:50.

The week began with a reminder of the crisis in social care.

:19:51.:19:54.

Minister David Mowatt said the children of elderly parents

:19:55.:19:57.

should take primary responsibility for them, not the state.

:19:58.:20:02.

I suppose it might be one way of saving money.

:20:03.:20:07.

Nobody ever questions the fact that parents,

:20:08.:20:12.

that we look after our children, that's just obvious and some

:20:13.:20:15.

of the way we think about that, in terms of the volume of numbers

:20:16.:20:18.

we see coming down the track, will have to imping on the way

:20:19.:20:22.

that we start thinking about how we look after our parents.

:20:23.:20:24.

Rather than concerns about people who're already stuck here,

:20:25.:20:27.

the week's biggest row was about where people might

:20:28.:20:32.

President Trump's migration ban in the name of national security

:20:33.:20:45.

and fighting terrorism sparked protests across the globe.

:20:46.:20:52.

Eventually, the Foreign Secretary said that the UK didn't agree

:20:53.:20:57.

with the American policy but still needed to work with the US

:20:58.:21:02.

So this is not an approach that this Government would take.

:21:03.:21:11.

But let me conclude by reminding the House of the vital importance

:21:12.:21:15.

of this country's alliance with the United States,

:21:16.:21:21.

the defence intelligence which I'm sure they appreciate and understand

:21:22.:21:25.

Nigel Farage complete with Trump lapel badge explained the benefits

:21:26.:21:37.

of the policy to the European Parliament.

:21:38.:21:49.

Trump is motivated by protecting the United States of America

:21:50.:21:52.

from Islamic terrorism, whereas what has happened in this

:21:53.:21:54.

room and in governments around Europe is you have welcomed these

:21:55.:21:57.

One Labour MEP made it clear what he thought of Mr Farage.

:21:58.:22:05.

It is the unelected commission that have the sole right

:22:06.:22:10.

Never mind stopping people getting in, I have to get out of here.

:22:11.:22:20.

Jeremy Corbyn lead on Trump at PMQs, the Labour leader wanting to know

:22:21.:22:25.

why Mrs May couldn't withdraw the invitation to Trump to meet

:22:26.:22:30.

Just what more does President Trump have to do before the Prime Minister

:22:31.:22:40.

will listen to the 1.8 million people who have already

:22:41.:22:45.

called for his state visit invitation to be withdrawn?

:22:46.:22:51.

But the Prime Minister batted him off with a dose of real politic

:22:52.:22:55.

and a dash of backbench pleasing tub thumping.

:22:56.:22:58.

Would he have been able to protect British citizens from the impact

:22:59.:23:01.

Would he have been able to lay the foundations of a trade deal?

:23:02.:23:06.

Would he have got a 100% commitment to Nato?

:23:07.:23:10.

Parliament got its supreme court ordered chance to debate triggering

:23:11.:23:37.

The government said it didn't make any difference.

:23:38.:23:42.

We asked the people of the UK if they wanted to leave

:23:43.:23:45.

At the core of this bill lies a simple question.

:23:46.:23:54.

Labour was ordered to support the government,

:23:55.:24:02.

Two thirds of Labour MPs represent constituencies that voted to leave.

:24:03.:24:09.

One third represent constituencies that voted to remain.

:24:10.:24:12.

This is obviously a difficult decision.

:24:13.:24:16.

No one doubted the outcome of the vote to leave,

:24:17.:24:23.

but a string of Remainers had their say.

:24:24.:24:25.

Democracy means not giving up your sleeves when the

:24:26.:24:34.

Democracy means not giving up your beliefs when the

:24:35.:24:36.

The government has decided not to make the economy the

:24:37.:24:40.

They have prioritised immigration control,

:24:41.:24:45.

a clear message from the

:24:46.:24:46.

We are combining withdrawal from the single

:24:47.:24:50.

market and the customs union with this great

:24:51.:24:52.

new globalised future, which offers tremendous

:24:53.:24:54.

Apparently, you follow the rabbit down the hole,

:24:55.:24:57.

The right honourable member yesterday

:24:58.:25:01.

But Alice only took herself into the hole.

:25:02.:25:05.

This Prime Minister is taking virtually all of the Tory party,

:25:06.:25:09.

half the Labour Party and the entire country into the hole.

:25:10.:25:12.

Thank God they are building a third runway atHeathrow.

:25:13.:25:29.

It's a nightmare getting out of here.

:25:30.:25:34.

Looks like we're going to have to jump for it.

:25:35.:25:47.

Oi, escape to Brexit, it's the will of the people!

:25:48.:26:13.

Adam Boulton with production values you don't normally see on TV.

:26:14.:26:33.

Probably just as well! Does this Brexit white paper tell us

:26:34.:26:36.

anything new that we didn't know already?

:26:37.:26:41.

It tells us that apparently you can spin out a very thin set of thoughts

:26:42.:26:46.

to 77 pages. I'm impressed. With the help of charts and graphs and

:26:47.:26:52.

repeating all manner of things, even putting in the SNP policies. And of

:26:53.:26:56.

course the fact that it was printed the day after the debate sort of

:26:57.:27:00.

told us how very relevant it was to the hole matter. Is Brexit now

:27:01.:27:04.

unstoppable? I think it was decided in June. I mean, if you are having a

:27:05.:27:08.

referendum and the Conservatives won the election with the manifesto

:27:09.:27:12.

commitment to an in-out referendum, so once they'd won the election, we

:27:13.:27:16.

were going to have a referendum, we had the referendum then we lost it,

:27:17.:27:20.

albeit by a narrow majority, but we lost it. Therefore now we need to

:27:21.:27:24.

move on to the issues that do need to be decided. In relation to the

:27:25.:27:29.

white paper, and I agree with Michael, I don't know what is more

:27:30.:27:32.

alarming, the idea that you've got a Government that is doing the wrong

:27:33.:27:36.

thing or the idea that you've got a Government that doesn't seem to have

:27:37.:27:40.

a clue what it's doing. And quite often, that is what it sounds like

:27:41.:27:45.

at the moment. You know, they're talking about being tough on

:27:46.:27:48.

immigration at exactly the same time as the training places for nurses is

:27:49.:27:53.

falling by 23%. So what are we going to do? Stop the nurses coming from

:27:54.:27:58.

Portugal and Spain? There are a whole load of things that don't seem

:27:59.:28:02.

to be adding up. We have twice as much trade with Europe as we have

:28:03.:28:06.

with America, America is going protectionist. Maybe not with us. Mr

:28:07.:28:12.

Trump wants a free trade bill, so maybe not with us? The idea that we

:28:13.:28:16.

are going to have exceptional special place, when he was asked is

:28:17.:28:19.

Britain at the front of the queue then for his trade deal, he said,

:28:20.:28:24.

oh, you're doing great. He didn't answer. His add Jens is not us, his

:28:25.:28:30.

audience is the US. Hence the invitation to make a state visit. We

:28:31.:28:36.

are trying to buy something. If an amendment was put down to Article

:28:37.:28:40.

50, I know what it would be called, but if it said that, as we do this,

:28:41.:28:47.

we guarantee the status of the three million plus EU citizens who live

:28:48.:28:52.

here, that we don't want to make them a bargaining card regardless of

:28:53.:28:58.

how our ex-pats will be treatd by the EU, we are going to do that

:28:59.:29:01.

because we believe it's the right thing to do, that could get through

:29:02.:29:05.

Parliament could it not? There is a majority in Parliament to do it as I

:29:06.:29:08.

understand it. Whether it gets called and becomes part of the Bill

:29:09.:29:13.

is a different issue. Ask the woman behind the amendment. I've tabled

:29:14.:29:19.

it. We should do. We shouldn't use people who've been here sometimes

:29:20.:29:23.

two, three decades, as a bargaining chip for people... I would think it

:29:24.:29:27.

were extraordinary if it were called. Have you had any guidance?

:29:28.:29:32.

I'm sure it will be within scope and it should be selected because it

:29:33.:29:35.

will get a lot of support. But also businesses don't want the sense that

:29:36.:29:40.

somehow the people that are working for them, whether in construction,

:29:41.:29:46.

in agriculture, in care, are those care homes suddenly going to... I

:29:47.:29:50.

must say it's a non-point. It's perfectly clear that people here now

:29:51.:29:55.

will be able to stay, it's a question of whether when that

:29:56.:29:59.

Government makes it clear. It's not clear to them at all. There is

:30:00.:30:02.

concern, even though we think it's clear, they are worried because they

:30:03.:30:06.

haven't had it guaranteed. And the idea of using it as a bargaining

:30:07.:30:10.

chip in respect of our citizens abroad is completely wrong. Does

:30:11.:30:17.

anybody seriously think that this country will pay 60 billion euro

:30:18.:30:24.

exit fee? I don't think we will but I think we will pay quite a lot of

:30:25.:30:30.

money as part of this deal. As an exit fee or paying for access,

:30:31.:30:35.

privileged access to the single market? Well. It will be the same

:30:36.:30:39.

things. Exactly. Paying for privileged access, but it could be

:30:40.:30:41.

presented in different ways. It's interesting. I don't think the

:30:42.:30:52.

Government has ever closed down this option. When you don't close down an

:30:53.:30:57.

option, it implies that you have the option in mind. Actually, I think

:30:58.:31:01.

paying money to the European Union after we have left would be deeply

:31:02.:31:07.

unpopular. At least as unpopular as immigration, free movement from the

:31:08.:31:10.

European Union. Nonetheless, it seems the Government seems that --

:31:11.:31:15.

believes it has some leveraged with money. It would be unpopular. Of

:31:16.:31:21.

course. The government is confronting a whole load of things

:31:22.:31:24.

which appear to be different from what they promised. They promised we

:31:25.:31:29.

would save ?350 million to put in the NHS. It now looks as though just

:31:30.:31:34.

to leave we have to pay out money. The Government didn't promise that.

:31:35.:31:44.

The Leave campaign. The Leave campaign said, take back control on

:31:45.:31:48.

immigration and that was understood by people as having fewer

:31:49.:31:51.

immigrants. It wasn't about control, it was about the message being sent

:31:52.:31:57.

of having fewer immigrants. I have asked Theresa May questions, are we

:31:58.:32:02.

going to have a few EU nationals doing agriculture, doing

:32:03.:32:04.

construction, what about care industry? Answer comes there none.

:32:05.:32:12.

She was for Remain but she is leading a Leave government. Your

:32:13.:32:16.

party will need an immigration policy, too. Any sign of that? Well,

:32:17.:32:22.

it will have to be developed. As will the Government's policy. Can

:32:23.:32:29.

you give us any word to a worried nation about Diane Abbott tonight?

:32:30.:32:35.

Any update. I think that Diane, who was on Question Time last Thursday

:32:36.:32:40.

setting out very firmly why she was going to vote for Article 50, I

:32:41.:32:43.

can't imagine that she would not have carried that through unless she

:32:44.:32:48.

was ill. Because she had a ready been on Question Time, which are

:32:49.:32:52.

constituents would have watched, as well as this programme, and they

:32:53.:32:56.

would have heard her arguing that the right thing to do unfortunately

:32:57.:33:00.

is to vote for Article 50. I have not put a soothing hand on her

:33:01.:33:04.

forehead or taken her temperature, but I suspect she is unwell. If you

:33:05.:33:10.

do, give her our good wishes. We will probably have a moment of

:33:11.:33:14.

silence, just to pray. Actually, we do not have time.

:33:15.:33:17.

So folks, we've all been attending Trump University's diplomacy courses

:33:18.:33:20.

and after three days and $50,000 in fees we've already graduated.

:33:21.:33:22.

Michael has begun building a wall around his house,

:33:23.:33:24.

so he can stop himself from stealing British people's' jobs,

:33:25.:33:27.

plus protect himself from the bad hombres out there.

:33:28.:33:29.

And Harriet has been appointed Trump's special envoy to Australia,

:33:30.:33:31.

I mean what could possibly go wrong with Australian-American relations?

:33:32.:33:35.

Theresa May and Donald Trump took statesmanship to intimate

:33:36.:33:48.

I think you are also Theresa and I believe we are going

:33:49.:33:57.

MPs quickly compared their courtship to Britain's dark, diplomatic past.

:33:58.:34:00.

Now this Government's hand in hand with another fascist, Trump.

:34:01.:34:08.

Why on earth, has Theresa the appeaser got him

:34:09.:34:10.

Both Nicolae Ceausescu and Robert Mugabe have been entertained

:34:11.:34:16.

What happens when you just don't get on?

:34:17.:34:22.

President Trump reportedly put the phone down on Australian Prime

:34:23.:34:25.

Minister Malcolm Turnbull after discussing the refugee

:34:26.:34:26.

settlement deal that he later called dumb.

:34:27.:34:32.

It's better that these things, these conversations,

:34:33.:34:33.

are conducted candidly, frankly, privately.

:34:34.:34:38.

You'll see reports of them, I'm not going to add to them.

:34:39.:34:46.

Nigel Farage confirmed his imperious statesmanship might feature

:34:47.:34:48.

It's early days, there's no script, we don't know how it's going to end,

:34:49.:35:00.

Impressionist Rory Bremner has impersonated a few leading

:35:01.:35:05.

And Nigel Farage, I mean Rory Bremner is with us now.

:35:06.:35:20.

Welcome. That was a bit of satire, wasn't it? Do we recognise

:35:21.:35:29.

statesmanship at the time, or is it only later that we recognise it?

:35:30.:35:35.

Possibly it is when we look back. It is a coming together of two things.

:35:36.:35:41.

It is a leader and a moment in time. Leader plus moment in time equals

:35:42.:35:47.

statesman. You think of Franklin Roosevelt, or Churchill during the

:35:48.:35:54.

war. But there can be moments. In South Africa, De Klerk and Mandela.

:35:55.:35:58.

We think of Mandela, but De Klerk played a huge role in that. There

:35:59.:36:02.

can also be moments when people come together. You think about Tony Blair

:36:03.:36:05.

and the Northern Ireland peace agreement. I feel the hand of

:36:06.:36:11.

history on my shoulder. This is no time for sound bites, but I feel the

:36:12.:36:15.

hand of history on my shoulder. That was a moment of statesmanship. John

:36:16.:36:19.

Major, again, very much involved with that. There can be moments of

:36:20.:36:24.

statesmanship but it is a coming together of two things. The opposite

:36:25.:36:29.

applies. Look at Europe in the last year, a failure of statesmanship,

:36:30.:36:35.

not just by David Cameron. Earlier, you were talking about David Cameron

:36:36.:36:40.

having not a statesman-like approach last year. And in Europe, if there

:36:41.:36:44.

had been a statesman in Europe more than anything else who could stand

:36:45.:36:49.

up and say to Europe, and actually put the case for Europe and bring

:36:50.:36:52.

Europe together and say that Europe needs to reform. You can see what is

:36:53.:36:56.

happening in Britain and the Netherlands. It was the lack of that

:36:57.:37:03.

which put us where we are now. There are people in France who think they

:37:04.:37:06.

are the one for that. Are we short of statesmen at the moment? Yes, I

:37:07.:37:12.

think so. I largely agree with Rory's analysis. Sometimes it is not

:37:13.:37:18.

easy to know what statesmanship is at the time. When Chamberlain came

:37:19.:37:22.

back from Munich he was cheered to the rafters, received on the balcony

:37:23.:37:26.

of Buckingham Palace by the well family, considered a great moment of

:37:27.:37:30.

statesmanship. On the other hand, when Churchill became Prime Minister

:37:31.:37:33.

and made speeches which have gone down in history, he was not cheered

:37:34.:37:37.

by his own Conservative benches for his first year in office as wartime

:37:38.:37:42.

Prime Minister. It was a long time before his own party would recognise

:37:43.:37:46.

he was achieving as Prime Minister. It sounds to me like what raw and

:37:47.:37:50.

Michael are talking about the good old days. Donald Trump has torn up

:37:51.:37:55.

the rules and it is post-protocol politics now. He is on the world

:37:56.:38:02.

stage like the political equivalent of the global financial crisis. I

:38:03.:38:09.

remember Gordon Brown saying, the global financial crisis is tearing

:38:10.:38:11.

everything up and we need to leap over and ahead of it in order to get

:38:12.:38:15.

some sort of control over the situation. I think that is the case

:38:16.:38:21.

with Trump. He is burning his route, and everyone is sitting back and

:38:22.:38:25.

reacting. That is not going to be a good thing. That is why I think that

:38:26.:38:30.

handholding, walking holding hands, it doesn't look to me like Theresa

:38:31.:38:35.

May is jumping ahead of the Trump phenomenon and actually controlling

:38:36.:38:43.

the situation. She got 100% commitment on Nato. She should have

:38:44.:38:47.

had a briefing which said, stay well clear when you walk beside him. How

:38:48.:38:54.

would anybody know that? It is understandable, they were walking

:38:55.:38:58.

down the steps and he took her hand. There is another interpretation that

:38:59.:39:01.

he does not like steps, so he took her hand to help himself. It was to

:39:02.:39:09.

stop her running away. The difference is that statesmen or

:39:10.:39:17.

women bring people together as opposed to divide. Dictators and

:39:18.:39:20.

demagogues divide. Statesmen and states women bring people together.

:39:21.:39:29.

And they rise above party. Churchill and FDR were above party. There is

:39:30.:39:34.

kind of Vanins Thracian. You talk about Churchill in May in 1940 when

:39:35.:39:40.

he had to persuade the Cabinet. There is a sense of inspiration,

:39:41.:39:43.

some greatness breathed into somebody at a moment in history. Who

:39:44.:39:50.

is to know? Maybe history judges it. Who would you describe as a states

:39:51.:39:58.

person today? Oh, Lord! I can't see any on the horizon. Wouldn't it be

:39:59.:40:03.

amazing if we had... Look at the Islamic world. If we had a sunny

:40:04.:40:08.

Mandela and a Shi'ite De Klerk saying, listen, this is a great

:40:09.:40:13.

relish and -- religion, and reclaim Islam from Isis, if you like. Who

:40:14.:40:27.

have been great states women? Go on, Michael. What about Margaret

:40:28.:40:32.

Thatcher. I thought Theresa May had echoes of Margaret Thatcher, post

:40:33.:40:40.

traumatic stress syndrome. What do you think of his suggestion? Think

:40:41.:40:46.

of Thatcher's role in world affairs, the fall of the Soviet Union, the

:40:47.:40:50.

liberation of Eastern Europe, the restoration of democracy to millions

:40:51.:40:56.

of people. My constituents were literally dying on hospital waiting

:40:57.:40:59.

lists when she was cutting the NHS. You were in the Cabinet, Chief

:41:00.:41:04.

secretary at the time. Whatever she was doing abroad, my view of her is

:41:05.:41:10.

coloured by what was actually happening to my constituents. What

:41:11.:41:15.

you are saying is entirely wrong. Public spending went marching

:41:16.:41:23.

upwards year after year. Welcome to this Week, 1984, fighting the

:41:24.:41:28.

battles again. The NHS was on its knees when you were in government.

:41:29.:41:35.

What about Angela Merkel. Yes, she is popular at home. Statesmen are

:41:36.:41:40.

often unpopular. Gorbachev, you could argue he was another one.

:41:41.:41:46.

Statesmen are often unpopular at home. Churchill was unpopular at

:41:47.:41:51.

home for a long time. Did Russia need Gorbachev at that moment? Did

:41:52.:41:58.

Britain need Thatcher at that moment? I am not quite answer that

:41:59.:42:07.

one, Harriet, either. Mrs Gandhi? Mrs Gandhi? I was thinking, was

:42:08.:42:13.

Gandhi married? What are you doing these days? I am starting touring

:42:14.:42:18.

next week. Jan ravens will join me, doing Theresa May. That starts on

:42:19.:42:25.

choose day. Look up my tour. And I am doing a documentary on ADHD, and

:42:26.:42:30.

a show at the Soho Theatre on Monday night. And Donald Trump will

:42:31.:42:41.

feature? He will feature. There will be 100,000 people. It will be great,

:42:42.:42:48.

so fantastic. Look at that. She is so hot there. How is the book going?

:42:49.:43:00.

Good. It is published today, so it is early doors. You will get the

:43:01.:43:05.

early returns in the morning. It has had lots of good publicity.

:43:06.:43:12.

But not for us, we're off to Stoke on Trent for Paul Nuttall's

:43:13.:43:16.

house-warming extravaganza, it's BYOB, of course.

:43:17.:43:17.

But, come to think of it, he's said it's bring your own food too,

:43:18.:43:21.

and your own wallpaper and your own furniture.

:43:22.:43:23.

He's also texted to ask if any of us remember the address - weird.

:43:24.:43:26.

Sadly for Michael's special relationship,

:43:27.:43:27.

She doesn't want to jeopardise her recovery and would neverR attend

:43:28.:43:31.

a social event at the expense of her health.

:43:32.:43:34.

Nighty night, don't let the Brexit bug bite.

:43:35.:43:41.

Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party,

:43:42.:43:43.

It's really important for people to understand that.

:43:44.:43:51.

Could you give us two minutes of your time, Ms Abbott?

:43:52.:43:54.

# I decree today that life is simply taking and not giving

:43:55.:44:00.

How is she feeling, by the way, because apparently she wasn't

:44:01.:44:10.

quite well enough go to the Commons yesterday?

:44:11.:44:12.

Well, Diane will have to explain her own position.

:44:13.:44:26.

It's not for me to explain Diane's actions.

:44:27.:44:37.

It is extraordinary that Diane Abbott sneaks off,

:44:38.:44:39.

You can't have it both ways in politics.

:44:40.:44:42.

If you bottle the vote, it's cowardice.

:44:43.:44:57.

I don't know any more than you do about Diane.

:44:58.:44:58.

All I could say is, Diane, if you are watching, get well soon.

:44:59.:45:02.

Indeed. I'm sure we all share that sentiment.

:45:03.:45:03.

Andrew Neil reviews the political week with Michael Portillo and Harriet Harman, with a film from Adam Boulton. They are joined by Derek Hatton, who offers his take on Jeremy Corbyn's leadership after the Labour leader imposed a three-line whip on the Article 50 vote, and Rory Bremner looks at statesmanship in the spotlight section.