26/01/2017 This Week


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26/01/2017

Andrew Neil is joined by Michael Portillo, Alan Johnson and John Nicolson to review the week, with a film from Isabel Hardman. Plus guests Ted Malloch and Bridget Christie.


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Choose life, choose Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and hope that

:00:08.:00:09.

Choose the special relationship, choose Theresa, choose Donald,

:00:10.:00:16.

choose the wall, choose your facts, choose alternatives, choose America.

:00:17.:00:18.

Choose the potential US ambassador to the EU, Ted Malloch.

:00:19.:00:26.

It's significant that President Trump has chosen

:00:27.:00:29.

Prime Minister May as his first foreign visitor to

:00:30.:00:34.

Choose looking back at referendums, wishing you'd

:00:35.:00:43.

Choose Brexit, choose the courts, choose the people, choose Trident.

:00:44.:00:49.

Choose the Spectator's Isabel Hardman.

:00:50.:00:58.

With Corbyn's shambolic performance at Prime Minister's Questions,

:00:59.:01:00.

running for the hills must be looking pretty good

:01:01.:01:02.

You're a politics addict, so embrace it, go all out.

:01:03.:01:07.

And if that doesn't work, choose comedian Bridget Christie

:01:08.:01:11.

Choose Newsnight, choose Question Time, don't choose This Week.

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Choose a zero-hours chat show, a mind-numbing,

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..that's only mildly better than reality TV.

:01:33.:01:36.

Choose Portillo, choose Johnson, choose BBC One, choose an unknown

:01:37.:01:39.

Who needs reason when you have This Week?

:01:40.:01:51.

Evenin' all, welcome to This Week, the show which regularly misfires

:01:52.:01:54.

and heads off in the wrong direction but which is on so late nobody can

:01:55.:01:59.

Instead there's a plan to twin us with the Trident Missile.

:02:00.:02:04.

Speaking of loose cannons, Prime Minister May's finger is now

:02:05.:02:07.

hovering over the trigger for Article 50.

:02:08.:02:10.

Who knows what direction that could go in?

:02:11.:02:12.

After weeks of insisting she didn't need a White Paper

:02:13.:02:14.

to give her Brexit directions, on Wednesday she announced, yes,

:02:15.:02:18.

The U-turn caught Jeremy Corbyn on the hop; his prepared attack

:02:19.:02:23.

for PMQs terminated on take-off and reduced to a little heap

:02:24.:02:27.

I'm told that over in the colonies, The Donald is rather jealous

:02:28.:02:34.

of all the fun the Brits are having with missiles, take-offs

:02:35.:02:37.

and terminations and is getting itchy fingers.

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Even though they are only very little itchy fingers,

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let's hope he confines them to his Twitter account

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and not to the nuclear codes or our own dear PM,

:02:47.:02:48.

Speaking of malfunctioning hardware that should have been

:02:49.:02:53.

decommissioned years ago, I'm joined on the sofa tonight

:02:54.:02:55.

by two guests who've never been successfully tested

:02:56.:02:58.

I speak of course of Michael #choochoo Portillo and Alan

:02:59.:03:04.

Your moment of the week? The one to which you have been valued in

:03:05.:03:19.

throughout your introduction, the misfiring of the missile. I have

:03:20.:03:25.

found it impossible to imagine circumstances in which a British

:03:26.:03:28.

Prime Minister would be permitted by the United States or would choose to

:03:29.:03:32.

fire the nuclear deterrent. But now that you don't know whether it will

:03:33.:03:36.

go to Moscow or Miami, it is even less probable. Which would you

:03:37.:03:42.

prefer it to go to? It is even less probable that a Prime Minister will

:03:43.:03:46.

fire it. If there were any rationality in the world, the money

:03:47.:03:50.

that will be spent on this will be redirected to weapons we would

:03:51.:03:53.

actually use, which would enable us to make a valuable contribution to

:03:54.:03:57.

the Nato alliance. At the moment, I think we make an insufficient

:03:58.:04:01.

contribution. Thank you for pre-empting our discussion for

:04:02.:04:05.

later, giving us time for something else. I can't say that it is

:04:06.:04:11.

anything other than the publication today of the European Union

:04:12.:04:19.

withdrawal from act 2017 which had its first reading today. It only

:04:20.:04:27.

took a moment to read it. Leave out the long title, together with the

:04:28.:04:30.

short title at the bottom, it is bang on 100 words. So I suppose

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never has such a short document... It is a short fuse that will lead to

:04:38.:04:42.

a big political explosion. Brevity is compassionate in these

:04:43.:04:44.

circumstances. Probably. So not yet a full week

:04:45.:04:47.

of Donald Trump and we've already had one wall,

:04:48.:04:50.

two pipelines, a massive Pacific trade deal aborted,

:04:51.:04:52.

abortions abroad no longer to be financed with federal dollars,

:04:53.:04:54.

a federal hiring freeze, the dismantling of Obamacare begun,

:04:55.:04:56.

3-5 million illegal voters conjured up from nowhere,

:04:57.:05:00.

just like the record crowds he claims were on the Washington

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Mall for his Inauguration Speech. An obsession with size can clearly

:05:05.:05:09.

make you delusional. Yes, I thought so -

:05:10.:05:21.

not quite so busy. All that and he's still got his

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meeting with Theresa May Here to offer some clarity

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is the man who would be Trump's ambassador to the EU,

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Ted Malloch, with his # She's washed and polished

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and full of high octane. # Riding with the top down,

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cruising in the fast lane. # Red hair's blowing

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as bright as a flame. The good times are back again

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for two great nations. After nearly a decade adrift, a man

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who understands our shared history, values and aspirations,

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is in the driving This marks a huge opportunity

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for both Britain and America to celebrate and renew that

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classic, special relationship. There's every reason that

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Theresa May and Donald Trump should It's not insignificant that she's

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the first foreign leader Once they've broken the ice

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and established some chemistry, there's every reason to believe

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they can get on with There's enthusiasm in Team Trump

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to deal with this issue quickly and it could aid in a swift,

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hard exit for Britain on more The visit will provide

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an opportunity to reassert But the world has not stood

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still since 1949 and NATO will have to step up and modify in order

:07:17.:07:23.

to meet the new threats. That means that member states

:07:24.:07:29.

are going to have to pay their fair share and not free ride

:07:30.:07:33.

on the American defence budget. Countries like France,

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Germany and Luxembourg are simply Finally, we need to start planning

:07:40.:07:42.

for a return state visit so that President Trump can meet the Queen

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this summer, putting the special Thank you to our pals

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at LA Stretch Limos based in Essex for the loan

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of their redilicious 1962 cadillac. I'll be ready for my home

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journey in about half hour. Ted Malloch, who is currently

:08:20.:08:24.

professor of strategic leadership and governance

:08:25.:08:26.

at Henley Business Welcome to the programme. Do we have

:08:27.:08:41.

any idea what Donald Trump means by the special relationship? Well, I

:08:42.:08:45.

think he thinks it's special, which means he has some historical view of

:08:46.:08:50.

what has transpired before. But I think he is looking for new

:08:51.:08:53.

chemistry between himself and Mrs May. Is he genuinely pro-British,

:08:54.:09:01.

sympathetic to Britain in a way that Mr Obama might not have been? It is

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a contrast between day and night. His mother was born in Stornoway.

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Her favourite person was the Queen. Donald Trump loves Great Britain.

:09:14.:09:19.

Mrs May spoke tonight in Philadelphia to a convention of

:09:20.:09:22.

Republican congressional politicians, and she even talked

:09:23.:09:27.

about a new special relationship, a new age of Anglo-American

:09:28.:09:33.

leadership. Is it not risky to rely too much on a President who is

:09:34.:09:38.

widely regarded as a bit of a loose cannon? Yes. I think it is a sign of

:09:39.:09:43.

the vulnerability that she senses about herself. She feels pretty

:09:44.:09:48.

isolated on the European issue and obviously thinks it very important

:09:49.:09:52.

to be close to the United States. There is a risk while she is there

:09:53.:09:56.

that she will be asked whether she agrees with the President on his

:09:57.:10:00.

views on trade, on immigration, on torture. And on none of those things

:10:01.:10:06.

does she agree. And it would be quite deft of her to voice her

:10:07.:10:10.

disagreement without, as it were, blowing the visit out of the water.

:10:11.:10:18.

She wants to cement Anglo American relations on defence, intelligence.

:10:19.:10:21.

She wants to open the way to a free-trade deal. Many people here,

:10:22.:10:27.

particularly on the left and centre left, want her to lecture the

:10:28.:10:29.

President about the wall, water boarding, women's rights. Should she

:10:30.:10:35.

succumbed to that? She should definitely not get into the business

:10:36.:10:40.

of lecturing the President. But she will find it difficult not to answer

:10:41.:10:45.

questions on these subjects. And she will not want to antagonise the

:10:46.:10:49.

President. Neither will she particularly want the President, if

:10:50.:10:53.

he voices his enthusiasm for Brexit, to go on and say he would welcome

:10:54.:10:59.

the demise of the European Union. Apparently our position is that

:11:00.:11:04.

whilst we think it's such a ridiculous organisation that we are

:11:05.:11:07.

happy to withdraw from it, we nonetheless would like this

:11:08.:11:12.

ridiculous organisation to survive. As she said in her Lancaster speech.

:11:13.:11:18.

And she said the same in a call to Mrs Merkel. It is a tricky one for

:11:19.:11:26.

Mrs May, not easy. But if you have in the Oval Office someone who is

:11:27.:11:31.

pro-British, pro-Brexit, who seems enthusiastic about the special

:11:32.:11:35.

relationship, it is hard for a British Prime Minister not to take

:11:36.:11:38.

advantage of that. Of course, she had to go. But she had been Home

:11:39.:11:44.

Secretary for every long time, meaning she had close relationships

:11:45.:11:48.

with the American security services. And they will be mostly the same

:11:49.:11:53.

people. In particular the water boarding, the torture comments

:11:54.:11:56.

today, that is very important. Because the British and American

:11:57.:12:02.

services work so closely together and cooperate. We couldn't do that

:12:03.:12:07.

if there was torture. He said he would not do it either. He said he

:12:08.:12:14.

will take advice. From two people who are against it. In a sense,

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today it was classic Trump. He played to his base by saying, if it

:12:21.:12:23.

was up to me, I would do it because I think it works, but he said he

:12:24.:12:31.

would listen to the director of the CIA, who has said not to do it. They

:12:32.:12:39.

have said it does not work, which is the best advice. Mr Trump said it

:12:40.:12:43.

did, on advice that we do not know where it was sourced from. We know

:12:44.:12:48.

it has worked on occasions. Is there an occasion when you would use an

:12:49.:12:55.

extreme form of interrogation? I want to stick with some wider

:12:56.:12:59.

subjects tonight. Is a free-trade deal with the UK, a bilateral US- UK

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free-trade deal, is that a priority for Mr Trump? I think it is. He has

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gone out of his way to say this is something he wants to achieve, and

:13:13.:13:15.

he is willing to do it in record time. He has invited her over

:13:16.:13:21.

primarily for this reason, and it meets Britain, frankly, at its time

:13:22.:13:27.

of greatest need. He is also pro-Brexit, which is a total change

:13:28.:13:31.

from anyone who has been in the Oval Office. He has no enthusiasm for EU

:13:32.:13:39.

integration. You noticed? And he is not the big friend of the Germans or

:13:40.:13:44.

Mrs Merkel either. He has said some things about Germany that have

:13:45.:13:50.

caused concern in those circles. Is he prepared to expend political

:13:51.:13:55.

capital to help Britain in Brexit? I think he is. He doesn't like a

:13:56.:14:03.

supranational organisation that is unelected, where bureaucrats run a

:14:04.:14:07.

mock, that is not, frankly, if proper democracy. If we start down

:14:08.:14:11.

the road of doing a free-trade deal with America, and we cannot conclude

:14:12.:14:18.

one until Brexit is over, but we could do heads of agreement and

:14:19.:14:24.

outline what it would be, wouldn't the EU then look churlish if it

:14:25.:14:28.

didn't say, yes, we will do a free-trade deal, too.

:14:29.:14:32.

I suppose so. I don't think it will happen like that. There could be a

:14:33.:14:38.

deal done quickly. Queens Park Rangers could end up winning the

:14:39.:14:42.

hundredship and win every game 6-0 from now on. -- the Championship. We

:14:43.:15:00.

export ?240 billion worth of goods to the European Union. We export ?30

:15:01.:15:05.

billion worth of goods to America. Now, our nearest and biggest market

:15:06.:15:10.

has to be a priority for us to maintain what we've already got

:15:11.:15:15.

before we go off into some adventure pie-in-the-sky reports We want a

:15:16.:15:20.

trade deal with the EU. I want a trade deal with America but the

:15:21.:15:24.

thought that Donald Trump is somehow going to help us by doing a free

:15:25.:15:28.

trade deal before we have gone through the process of article 50

:15:29.:15:33.

and renegotiate our way back into the nearest and dearest market. Does

:15:34.:15:42.

having Donald Trump in The Oval office strengthen the negotiating

:15:43.:15:47.

power? To a certain point it does. This is unknown terrain for us. We

:15:48.:15:50.

have never had a President who's understood our position in the

:15:51.:15:55.

European Union before. However, if he voices the sort of analysis that

:15:56.:16:00.

Ted has just voiced with which I don't disagree about the European

:16:01.:16:03.

Union, there is a danger, of course, that our European partners will

:16:04.:16:06.

assume that Mrs May is really just like Donald Trump, that is to say

:16:07.:16:10.

that she really wants to bring down the European Union in which case

:16:11.:16:14.

that would make our negotiating position more difficult. What do you

:16:15.:16:21.

mean by "our position"? Previous American Presidents have understood

:16:22.:16:25.

our position. What I meant was our position of discomfort within the

:16:26.:16:29.

European Union. This is a watershed change and I wonder if something

:16:30.:16:34.

happens today. Am I right in thinking that Mrs Merkel said she'd

:16:35.:16:38.

go at short notice to see Mr Trump and he hasn't even replied yet to

:16:39.:16:42.

give her a date? I think she's anxious to see him and he's got a

:16:43.:16:47.

cool approach to the Germans and he's said some things, both about

:16:48.:16:51.

the euro and the way that the European Union has tilted towards

:16:52.:16:57.

Germany so I'm sure it's raised eyebrows, if not antagonisms in

:16:58.:17:02.

Berlin. Maybe the Germans want her to be an intermediary, an adversary.

:17:03.:17:08.

She's going to Turkey next. Mrs Merkel? Mrs May. Why would you want

:17:09.:17:15.

to be US Ambassador to the EU, you are clearly not a great fan of

:17:16.:17:25.

Brussels like Jean-Claude Juncker? I helped bring down the Soviet Union,

:17:26.:17:28.

maybe there's another union that needs a little taming. It's only the

:17:29.:17:35.

British who believe an ambassador from one country to another has to

:17:36.:17:38.

take on the point of view of the country to which he's sent, rather

:17:39.:17:41.

than the point of view of the country which is sending him.

:17:42.:17:47.

Unusual to send an ambassador to a country which you are being sent to.

:17:48.:17:52.

I want the ambassador to represent the country, not the EU. What do you

:17:53.:18:00.

think of Mr Juncker? He was an adequate Mayor and maybe should go

:18:01.:18:04.

back to Luxembourg and do that again. This is clearly going to be a

:18:05.:18:08.

very diplomatic appointment. Will you keep in touch with us? Keep in

:18:09.:18:13.

touch with Nigel Farage. This is going to be more fun than

:18:14.:18:17.

Washington. I think so. Thank you for being with us. Next time we'll

:18:18.:18:19.

have to call you Mr Ambassador. Now it's late, Labour MPs waiting up

:18:20.:18:23.

in the middle of the night But don't you succumb

:18:24.:18:26.

to their suicidal tendencies. Because waiting in the wings

:18:27.:18:29.

is baby hating comedian So come have a giggle,

:18:30.:18:32.

take to Facepants, Snapjokes and settle down to the world's

:18:33.:18:37.

finest Twitter-tainment. It's been anther tricky

:18:38.:18:39.

old week for Jeremy Corbyn. The whips aren't whipping,

:18:40.:18:43.

the Labour mayor of London has turned on him, there's been another

:18:44.:18:47.

Shadow Cabinet resignation and, not the for first time,

:18:48.:18:49.

PMQs was less than a triumph for the Leader of Her

:18:50.:18:55.

Majesty's Opposition. Take a look around our studio

:18:56.:18:58.

and you will soon realise that doomed political careers can lead

:18:59.:19:08.

to fantastic careers in television. How long can it be before

:19:09.:19:12.

old ChooChoo's slow trains to nowhere are bumped off

:19:13.:19:17.

the schedules to make way for Jezza's 36-part

:19:18.:19:20.

guide to manhole covers? Here with the political

:19:21.:19:27.

round up of the week # You're willing to

:19:28.:19:30.

sacrifice our love.# Andrew's ordered an ice sculpture

:19:31.:19:47.

for the This Week studio. I think he's trying

:19:48.:19:50.

to class up the joint. But in this post Brexit economy,

:19:51.:19:56.

all of us are going to have to learn new skills,

:19:57.:20:03.

even us hacks. The PM started the week by launching

:20:04.:20:05.

a new industrial strategy, all about carving out

:20:06.:20:12.

a new future post-Brexit. It's about saying, what are our

:20:13.:20:18.

strengths, as we come out We're coming together as a country,

:20:19.:20:21.

we are forging our future, shaping a new future for the UK

:20:22.:20:28.

as a global Britain. Key to that future will be

:20:29.:20:31.

a trade deal with the US. The PM's been preparing to fly off,

:20:32.:20:34.

freezing fog permitting, Best gloss over the embarrassing

:20:35.:20:38.

revelation that HMS Vengeance accidentally fired a Trident missile

:20:39.:20:44.

at the US. The government's actually been

:20:45.:20:48.

getting pretty good at not The Defence Secretary categorically

:20:49.:20:51.

refused to say when the PM The previous Prime Minister and this

:20:52.:20:57.

Prime Minister were of course informed about the maintenance

:20:58.:21:07.

of the nuclear deterrent and the outcome of the test

:21:08.:21:11.

and the successful return of HMS But the story of the week

:21:12.:21:14.

was Brexit, and the Supreme Court's decision that MPs must get a vote

:21:15.:21:22.

before triggering Article 50. Lawyer and activist

:21:23.:21:28.

Gina Miller declared victory Only Parliament can grant rights

:21:29.:21:33.

to the British people and only No Prime Minister, no

:21:34.:21:41.

government can expect to be The Brexit secretary said

:21:42.:21:48.

legislation would be laid within days but it

:21:49.:22:04.

wouldn't change anything. It's not about whether or not the UK

:22:05.:22:07.

should leave the European Union. That decision has already been made

:22:08.:22:15.

by the people of the United Kingdom. We will work with colleagues in both

:22:16.:22:21.

Houses to ensure this bill is passed in good time for us to invoke

:22:22.:22:24.

Article 50 by the end Labour said proper legislation

:22:25.:22:27.

wouldn't be possible Labour accepts and respects

:22:28.:22:32.

the referendum result and will not But we will be seeking to lay

:22:33.:22:36.

amendments to ensure proper scrutiny and accountability

:22:37.:22:43.

throughout the process. That starts, Mr Speaker,

:22:44.:22:46.

with a White Paper or plan. The SNP, cross that the devolved

:22:47.:22:51.

administrations were being frozen out and wouldn't get a vote

:22:52.:22:56.

on the matter, renewed If we are now being told

:22:57.:23:00.

that Scotland's voice simply doesn't matter,

:23:01.:23:04.

that it will not be listened to, not just that it is not enforceable

:23:05.:23:07.

in the courts but it is not going to be politically listened to,

:23:08.:23:11.

then that raises a really The Lib Dems cried "stitch up"

:23:12.:23:13.

and said they would oppose the bill without a referendum,

:23:14.:23:21.

another one, on the What should not happen now is that

:23:22.:23:24.

a stitch up should take place between Theresa May,

:23:25.:23:31.

David Davis and politicians in Brussels, that the British people

:23:32.:23:34.

then just have to live with. We take the view that

:23:35.:23:37.

unless the British people are given the final say on the terms

:23:38.:23:40.

of the deal, then we will not be Brexit, of course,

:23:41.:23:43.

dominated exchanges at PMQs. Jeremy Corbyn was all set to attack

:23:44.:23:53.

the Prime Minister over process and the lack of a White Paper,

:23:54.:23:59.

but then Tory backbencher Chris Philp stood up and shot

:24:00.:24:02.

the Labour leader's fox. Does the Prime Minister agree

:24:03.:24:06.

that the best way of facilitating that scrutiny would be a government

:24:07.:24:11.

White Paper? I can confirm to the House

:24:12.:24:14.

that our plan will be set out in a White Paper

:24:15.:24:17.

published this month. So Jeremy Corbyn was left to attack

:24:18.:24:22.

the Prime Minister over the timing of the White Paper and protections

:24:23.:24:27.

for workers' rights. But Theresa May was having none

:24:28.:24:30.

of it, pointing out the confusion on the Labour benches

:24:31.:24:33.

about its policy. Article 50 wasn't about the court

:24:34.:24:37.

judgment against this government. What it signified was the bad

:24:38.:24:41.

judgment of this government, the bad judgment of prioritising

:24:42.:24:45.

corporate tax cuts over investment The bad judgment of threatening

:24:46.:24:50.

European partners whilst offering The bad judgment of wanting to turn

:24:51.:24:57.

Britain into a bargain I have to say to him,

:24:58.:25:06.

he is the leader of the party. He can't even agree with his

:25:07.:25:12.

Shadow Chancellor about Brexit. The Shadow Chancellor can't agree

:25:13.:25:16.

with the Shadow Brexit secretary. The Shadow Brexit

:25:17.:25:18.

secretary disagrees And the Shadow Home Secretary has

:25:19.:25:21.

to ring up the leader He talks about us

:25:22.:25:26.

standing up for Britain. Old habits die hard on This Week,

:25:27.:25:31.

and we're not the only ones. Has the Minister,

:25:32.:25:46.

has the noble lord... Nice to see some of us

:25:47.:25:51.

sticking to what we know best. This seems like far too

:25:52.:26:02.

much hard work to me. I think I'll put the

:26:03.:26:05.

reskilling on ice for now. And the elves at The Ice Box

:26:06.:26:21.

in London's New Covent Garden Market were kind enough to finish it

:26:22.:26:25.

off for her. And it's made it intact

:26:26.:26:27.

to the This Week studio too. As has SNP heartthrob

:26:28.:26:31.

John Nicholson, who's looking Where can you go from there, Andrew

:26:32.:26:50.

Did it just delay the inevitable? Yes and the Prime Minister snatched

:26:51.:26:56.

victory. It could have been worse if it involved further consultation

:26:57.:26:58.

with Scotland and Northern Ireland and so on, that would have been very

:26:59.:27:02.

complicated constitutionally, so from the Government's point of view,

:27:03.:27:05.

it was more or less what they hoped for at that stage. Is there any

:27:06.:27:10.

doubt that Parliament will trigger article 50? No, I don't think so. I

:27:11.:27:16.

think Theresa May did snatch victory. She didn't have to go

:27:17.:27:20.

through this. She should have begun this by saying to Parliament, of

:27:21.:27:24.

course we are going to involve you properly in this and she shouldn't

:27:25.:27:27.

have appealed to the Supreme Court. She could have been doing a lot more

:27:28.:27:30.

before then. In the end, I think what Jeremy Corbyn was entitled to

:27:31.:27:36.

do is to say that actually the reversal on the white paper was

:27:37.:27:39.

something brought about by pressure from the opposition. Why didn't he

:27:40.:27:48.

say that? He was wriggling there. I was watching and thought why didn't

:27:49.:27:53.

you come in. And say that. The extraordinary thing about the appeal

:27:54.:27:56.

is just what a waste of money it is. This is meant to be a Conservative

:27:57.:27:59.

Government that minds the pennies, why on earth would you go to the

:28:00.:28:03.

Supreme Court to try and prevent Parliament from having a say? Credit

:28:04.:28:10.

where it's due. We didn't have the aim reaction from the judiciary that

:28:11.:28:15.

we did on the High Court decision. Liz Truss and Jeremy Wright came

:28:16.:28:21.

out. That was a lesson learnt. We have seen constitutional law.

:28:22.:28:25.

Experts say the Supreme Court's judgment is a more rounded judgment

:28:26.:28:28.

than the High Court's one and a better basis for going forward, so

:28:29.:28:36.

maybe... Some think the minority opinion is important too. Because

:28:37.:28:40.

there was no legal requirement for the Scottish Government to be

:28:41.:28:44.

consulted, doesn't mean they shouldn't be consulted. Isn't the

:28:45.:28:48.

Scottish Government being consulted? David Davis said he's met them five

:28:49.:28:53.

times. But what does that mean, if you keep meeting somebody and

:28:54.:28:57.

ignoring them, it's hardly worth the meeting is it? The contrary will be

:28:58.:29:05.

just as ridiculous. I don't get any sense that there's actually

:29:06.:29:12.

engagement. What Michael Russell says on Brexit, he just says, you

:29:13.:29:16.

know, David Davis keeps saying he's talking to us but I don't get a

:29:17.:29:21.

sthaens he's actually engaging in the arguments or debates. They don't

:29:22.:29:25.

even seem to inch forward. I know the SNP have said they are going to

:29:26.:29:31.

lay down 50 amendments because it's Article 50 and so on and the Deputy

:29:32.:29:37.

Speaker will be determined how many of these are called. Not many I

:29:38.:29:41.

suggest but we'll see. Are you in any doubt that in the end Parliament

:29:42.:29:45.

will trigger Article 50? I can't see any way that it can be prevented, to

:29:46.:29:51.

be honest. Particularly because of Labour's position? Exactly because

:29:52.:29:55.

of Labour's position. Because of the result of the referendum? I don't

:29:56.:29:58.

know what the amendments will be, but I would very much like to see

:29:59.:30:02.

the Westminster Parliament to say that European Union citizens will

:30:03.:30:07.

not be used as bargaining chips. Yes. Will it get through? I hope it

:30:08.:30:16.

will get through. I think it would mean we could all rally around that.

:30:17.:30:23.

Alan, isn't it quite amazing, you and I remember the Tories ripping

:30:24.:30:28.

themselves apart over Europe endlessly, the Maastricht debates

:30:29.:30:32.

went on and on. Did you ever think Labour would end up, not as badly

:30:33.:30:37.

divided as the Tories used to be, but still now pretty divided?

:30:38.:30:44.

No, I didn't, but I didn't think there would be a yes - no referendum

:30:45.:30:52.

on the EU. To be fair to where we stand, we supported remaining in the

:30:53.:30:58.

European Union, 66% of Labour voters supported it. So there is that

:30:59.:31:04.

division. People like the shadow in a has resigned in Hampstead... There

:31:05.:31:11.

are bound to be those issues. The big battle will be when the

:31:12.:31:15.

so-called great repeal bill comes in. That is when we will start... It

:31:16.:31:20.

will not be implemented until after Article 50 is completed, but that is

:31:21.:31:25.

when you will see the kind of issues... People are talking about

:31:26.:31:29.

hundreds of amendments for this. That is the wrong place. I thought

:31:30.:31:35.

all of the so-called great repeal bill, I thought all that was meant

:31:36.:31:42.

to do was to take the corpus of European law that currently affects

:31:43.:31:45.

us and just move it on to the British statute book, and you don't

:31:46.:31:52.

come to decide what you will unpick on that until we have left. Well, I

:31:53.:31:59.

think that is true. So why would you amend it? If ministers decide not to

:32:00.:32:08.

unpick it, there is a thing called a Henry VIII clause, which is done

:32:09.:32:13.

virtually by ministerial decree. If they start to cherrypicking... If

:32:14.:32:19.

they leave it, having moved it across, until after Article 50...

:32:20.:32:25.

Did you notice that David Mundell, the Scottish Secretary, Conservative

:32:26.:32:30.

Scottish party secretary, said that he thought that the Holyrood

:32:31.:32:35.

parliament might have to give its consent to aspects of the great

:32:36.:32:40.

repeal bill where they affect Scots law, where European law has been

:32:41.:32:45.

incorporated into Scots law. A very interesting development. My

:32:46.:32:50.

understanding was that this was the simplifying procedure. Alan is

:32:51.:32:53.

right, if they start to say, we want to change this and that, it will

:32:54.:32:58.

complicate matters. Did you not think they would just move it all on

:32:59.:33:02.

and what regulations and laws we stick with would be determined

:33:03.:33:04.

either after we leave or for the next Parliament after 2020? I am not

:33:05.:33:12.

sure there is a huge point in trying to speculate what will happen in two

:33:13.:33:16.

years. I think the government will have to play it according to how it

:33:17.:33:20.

sees the parliamentary arithmetic at the time. But I think you are

:33:21.:33:24.

absolutely right that one of the things it can do is to have a fairly

:33:25.:33:29.

uncontroversial bill, followed presumably by mountains of

:33:30.:33:31.

legislation thereafter, which will have to unpick all the things that

:33:32.:33:35.

need to be unpicked. There is the possibility of absolute chaos

:33:36.:33:41.

arriving in two years' time. Why was Nicola Sturgeon surprised to

:33:42.:33:48.

discover that foreign policy was a reserved competence for Westminster?

:33:49.:33:53.

I don't think she was particularly surprised. She seemed to think the

:33:54.:33:57.

Scottish parliament should determine foreign policy. Our view is that we

:33:58.:34:02.

were told repeatedly Scotland was an equal partner. If that is true, her

:34:03.:34:08.

view and my view, most people's view in Scotland is that the Holyrood

:34:09.:34:12.

parliament should be consulted. Otherwise, what did the rhetoric

:34:13.:34:18.

mean? But the one thing the SNP government is keen storm is that

:34:19.:34:25.

even though Britain is to leave the single market, the SNP think

:34:26.:34:29.

Scotland can stay in the single market. Not just the SNP. That is

:34:30.:34:33.

the Labour Party position and was Ruth Davidson's position until

:34:34.:34:40.

recently. Can you name a single leading European that thinks that is

:34:41.:34:45.

possible? Since you put me on the spot, I can't. I think it is a

:34:46.:34:51.

personally -- perfectly reasonable argument for the Scottish Government

:34:52.:34:55.

to advance, and their legal advice is that there is no impediment to

:34:56.:34:59.

that happening, if the British government wants to be as flexible

:35:00.:35:04.

as they say they do. Are you going to follow Jeremy Corbyn's three line

:35:05.:35:10.

whip? I happen to agree that we have two trigger Article 50. I will look

:35:11.:35:15.

at the amendments, particularly about EU nationals living here.

:35:16.:35:19.

There was an interesting development in Wales this week, where Plaid

:35:20.:35:27.

Cymru and the Lib Dems put forward a plan about how to tackle freedom of

:35:28.:35:33.

movement. Where I come from, free number -- freedom of movement has to

:35:34.:35:37.

go. It has to be amended in Europe. It has to change, and sooner or

:35:38.:35:40.

later they will come to that conclusion. But I am convinced that

:35:41.:35:44.

was the major factor for why people left the European Union. The leading

:35:45.:35:50.

candidate for the French presidency is moving a very long distance on

:35:51.:35:55.

freedom of movement. Maybe that will happen in a lot of places in Europe.

:35:56.:35:59.

John, thank you for being with us again.

:36:00.:36:02.

Now, it's been busy news week, again, this week.

:36:03.:36:04.

When Michael addressed last weekend's Women's March protest

:36:05.:36:05.

against Donald Trump he rather got carried away and called on them

:36:06.:36:08.

The British Food Standards quango said that roast potatoes and brown

:36:09.:36:13.

And This Week's viewing figures rose to between three and five million,

:36:14.:36:19.

including illegal immigrants, which is more than a month

:36:20.:36:23.

Not so easy to tell, is it, in this brave

:36:24.:36:33.

That's why we're putting "truth" in this week's Spotlight.

:36:34.:36:47.

The Prime Minister says she's not scared of telling

:36:48.:36:50.

I'm not afraid to speak frankly to a President of the United States.

:36:51.:36:56.

The Donald is committed to the truth, too.

:36:57.:36:58.

So devoted he says he might bring back torture to reveal it.

:36:59.:37:02.

Would I feel strongly about water boarding?

:37:03.:37:06.

As far as I'm concerned, we have to fight fire with fire.

:37:07.:37:13.

But is there any truth in Trump's allegations of voter fraud?

:37:14.:37:17.

There are millions of votes, in my opinion.

:37:18.:37:19.

His spin doctors are having to work hard to prove them.

:37:20.:37:22.

I think he has stated his concerns of voter fraud and people voting

:37:23.:37:27.

He continues to maintain that belief.

:37:28.:37:32.

Back in Blighty, facts give way to fiction during Jeremy Corbyn's

:37:33.:37:35.

Condolences, I am sure, of the whole House to the family

:37:36.:37:41.

of the police officer who lost his life over the weekend

:37:42.:37:43.

I join the Prime Minister in wishing a speedy recovery

:37:44.:37:49.

Earlier in the week, Ewan McGregor and Piers Morgan told

:37:50.:37:56.

"Didn't realise Piers Morgan was host.

:37:57.:38:01.

"Won't go on with him after his comments about the women's march.

:38:02.:38:05.

Maybe actors should just talk about their films and not get

:38:06.:38:08.

Comedian Bridget Christie's as honest as they come.

:38:09.:38:15.

To my two small children, I'm an absent mother.

:38:16.:38:17.

But is truth a rare commodity these days?

:38:18.:38:26.

And an endless source of shame and regret.

:38:27.:38:29.

Thank you for bringing your dogs. Should we always tell the truth? No.

:38:30.:38:46.

I think there are good and bad lies. If you are in church and the bride

:38:47.:38:50.

is about to come down the aisle and you don't think she's looking her

:38:51.:38:59.

best, you probably should not go... But what we see in politics is that

:39:00.:39:04.

there are many different types of lying. There is political

:39:05.:39:09.

sidestepping, avoiding the truth, and blatant lies, basic lies. What

:39:10.:39:13.

we are seeing now is something more sophisticated. We have Trump sending

:39:14.:39:20.

Sean Spicer out to say that there were more people. We have Kellyanne

:39:21.:39:25.

Conway saying that Sean Spicer was using alternative facts. It is on

:39:26.:39:30.

another level. There seems to be a new phrase for something that is not

:39:31.:39:36.

true. Alternative facts? It doesn't make any sense, it is meaningless.

:39:37.:39:44.

Lying. Are we more prone to lying? George Orwell's 1984 has gone to the

:39:45.:39:52.

top of the Amazon lists. News speak, doublespeak, freedom is slavery, war

:39:53.:39:55.

is peace. All of it comes from George Orwell. And when I saw

:39:56.:40:00.

Kellyanne Conway say that what he had said was an all turn a tip

:40:01.:40:06.

fact... There is no such as an alternative fact. She laughed when

:40:07.:40:11.

she said it. I think they are both under pressure. I think it is more

:40:12.:40:14.

sinister than just lying to the public. It is interesting that Trump

:40:15.:40:21.

sent Sean Spicer out to say that. Sometimes children do this. He is

:40:22.:40:26.

testing their loyalty. The crowd was obviously much smaller than he

:40:27.:40:32.

wanted, so by sending Sean Spicer out, he is testing his loyalty. You

:40:33.:40:37.

hold the power. If you make somebody lied, you hold power over them. It

:40:38.:40:43.

is also extraordinary, because in normal politics what you would have

:40:44.:40:47.

been briefed to say is, it doesn't matter what the size of the crowd

:40:48.:40:50.

is, I won the election, Americans voted for me. And the TV audience

:40:51.:40:57.

was massive. It doesn't matter how many women have gone on the street

:40:58.:41:01.

in Washington, it is not as many as the 30 million women who voted for

:41:02.:41:06.

me, Donald Trump. Those are standard answers, and pretty good answers.

:41:07.:41:12.

But he didn't do that. Even Trump's bodyguard, his arms were fake. Did

:41:13.:41:23.

you see that? It is hard to keep up. His bodyguard is walking down with

:41:24.:41:29.

these fake arms, because his arms are underneath with a big gun. What

:41:30.:41:35.

is next? Honestly, I think they are going to start pushing out a waxwork

:41:36.:41:43.

of Trump and passing them off. Quite often... We pride ourselves on fact

:41:44.:41:49.

checking. We had a spat this week with the Scottish and the lists of

:41:50.:41:55.

export figures on the facts. In America, the amount of

:41:56.:41:57.

misinformation, I put it no higher than that, during the election, was

:41:58.:42:02.

so intense that the fact checkers just lost control. There were too

:42:03.:42:08.

many things to check. You are not telling me during the Brexit

:42:09.:42:11.

campaign there was not masses of misinformation. But there was a lot

:42:12.:42:17.

of fact checking as well. We have whole programmes on it. A lot of

:42:18.:42:26.

effort goes into it. The worry is that this populist movement is

:42:27.:42:30.

almost saying, look, never mind about the facts. There was a great

:42:31.:42:34.

quote from Daniel Moynahan who said everyone is entitled to their own

:42:35.:42:37.

opinion but no one is entitled to their own facts. Everyone is

:42:38.:42:42.

entitled to their own fact now, and some of that emerged during the

:42:43.:42:48.

Brexit debate. If you lie often enough, the lie becomes the truth. I

:42:49.:42:52.

think there has to be some accountability. There was a petition

:42:53.:42:56.

to make knowingly lying, misleading the public during an election

:42:57.:43:00.

campaign or referendum, trying to make that a legal. I wonder who

:43:01.:43:08.

would urge you to a on that. We have run out of time. What are you up to?

:43:09.:43:13.

I am at Leicester Square Theatre next week and then I start touring

:43:14.:43:19.

around the UK. Good le. Don't forget the dogs.

:43:20.:43:22.

We're heading to LouLou's for the Great British Supreme

:43:23.:43:26.

The policy and dress code is as strict as it gets

:43:27.:43:30.

for a London elite only party - white tie, white powdered wigs

:43:31.:43:33.

I know where that will come in handy.

:43:34.:43:36.

Nighty night, don't let Dutch humour bite.

:43:37.:43:44.

Dear Mr President, welcome to this introduction video

:43:45.:43:46.

It's going to be absolutely fantastic.

:43:47.:43:54.

Our founding father was William of Orange, who fought

:43:55.:43:57.

They fought against us for 80 years but they couldn't beat us.

:43:58.:44:04.

It's a great, great wall that we built to protect us

:44:05.:44:30.

We built an entire ocean, OK, an entire ocean

:44:31.:44:38.

Nobody builds oceans better than we do.

:44:39.:44:45.

This ocean, it is so big you can even see it from the moon.

:44:46.:44:50.

We totally understand, it's going to be America first.

:44:51.:44:58.

But can we just say, the Netherlands second?

:44:59.:45:02.

Thank you for watching, and best wishes.

:45:03.:45:07.

We've got the best wishes in the Netherlands.

:45:08.:45:09.

We know you understand the risks associated with your pregnancy.

:45:10.:45:21.

Because I'm smaller, people think my hopes are not so great.

:45:22.:45:25.

Andrew Neil is joined by Michael Portillo, Alan Johnson and John Nicolson to review the political week, with a film from Isabel Hardman. Ted Malloch - tipped to be Donald Trump's ambassador to the EU - joins them to look at the so-called UK-US special relationship, while comedian Bridget Christie looks at the 'truth'.