Browse content similar to 16/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Listen very carefully, Michael, I will say this only once. | :00:24. | :00:35. | |
There is a strange woman standing behind me. | :00:36. | :00:37. | |
I've joined the resistance of This Week. | :00:38. | :00:49. | |
And you know what, the far right are still donkeys | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
I have eluded the enemy and stowed away on the HMS This Week. | :00:53. | :01:10. | |
But the political waters are looking choppy. | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
Have you got the fallen Madonna with the big boobies? | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
No, I'm a British historian and I am come to talk about nostalgia. | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
Ah, that is why we are in this 80s sitcom. | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
Time to crack open the lovely vintage the Germans | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
May you have happiness all your life. | :01:39. | :01:54. | |
And let me make it clear right from the start that when I said last | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
week that the self-employed were a bunch of tax-dodging chavs | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
cluttering up our streets with their ramshackle, | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
pollution-emitting white vans who deserve to be whacked | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
with a dose of extra tax, it was obviously just my jocular way | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
of saying the self-employed are the backbone of the nation, | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
risk-takers, entrepreneurs, strivers, saints, | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
who will never pay a penny more in tax as long as I have | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
breath in my body and ink on my spreadsheet. | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
I'm surprised how many of you didn't get that. | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
And when I said that I'd no idea what was in the Tory election | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
of manifesto until the BBC informed me, what I was clearly | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
saying was that, of course, I'd read the manifesto | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
But only this week did I discover that it was, in fact, | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
a blueprint for government and not a work of fiction. | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
I'm sure I'm not alone in making that mistake. | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
Anyway today we put all that behind us and unveiled our post-Brexit | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
Now it's true the launch has been beset with technical difficulties. | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
Indeed if you try to go to the home page you're told | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
the plan "isn't working", but that only makes it all the more | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
emblematic of the May government right now. | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
Speaking of those whose plans, and careers, have long been | :03:07. | :03:08. | |
in tatters, and whose political prospects are indeed the stuff | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
of fiction, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two prime examples | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
of the self-employed, because who else would give them a job? | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
I speak, of course, of Michael #choochoo Portillo | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
Your moment of the week, Michael? Mr Craig Mackey in Leigh MP for Thanet | :03:22. | :03:39. | |
South, I think, has been interviewed by the police. Apparently there are | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
a dozen police forces investigating possible infringements of election | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
expenses. The Conservative battlebus visited 29 marginal constituencies. | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
Potentially, this could be a catastrophe. It may not turn out | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
that way. But if you look at the downside, there could be a very | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
large number of by-elections created by this and that would be a game | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
changer. In such a situation, I think the government would surely | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
choose to have a general election rather than a succession of | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
by-elections because there would be so many. Just a straw in the wind, | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
but it is quite worrying. It is a huge story. Worrying if you are a | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
Tory, great if you are a journalist. David Davis' appearance before the | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
Brexit select committee. I thought that was the big story this week. He | :04:35. | :04:42. | |
said the Government has made no assessment of what no deal would | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
mean for Britain when we leave the EU. For me, I felt he was dismissive | :04:47. | :04:54. | |
and disdainful. Sorry to say this, Michael. About the impact that | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
tariffs or losing passport in rights would have on jobs and businesses. I | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
think there are a lot of anxious people out there worried about what | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
will happen and he did not treat them with respect. It was a well | :05:07. | :05:08. | |
covered event. Last year gave us Brexit | :05:09. | :05:10. | |
and Donald Trump, and two huge victories | :05:11. | :05:12. | |
for anti-establishment populism. But are these both examples | :05:13. | :05:14. | |
of Anglo-Saxon exceptionalism, or is the populist insurgency | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
about to take continental A series of European elections | :05:18. | :05:19. | |
in 2017 is putting that But the insurgents have stumbled | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
at the first hurdle, with the party of Geert Wilders, | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
the far-right, anti-immigrant Islamophobe who wants to ban | :05:30. | :05:31. | |
the Koran and tear down mosques, coming a disappointing second | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
in Holland's general election, dashing his hopes that he would | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
top the poll. But Mr Wilders still gained seats, | :05:40. | :05:41. | |
while the ruling centre-right party lost plenty and its coalition | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
partner, the mainstream So the Dutch establishment, | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
which was dragged to the right during the campaign, | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
didn't have it all its own way and could take months and months | :05:55. | :05:56. | |
to form a new government. Meanwhile the election caravan moves | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
to France in April and the much more significant challenge | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
to the established order of Here's French journalist Agnes | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
Poirier with her take of the week. Something extraordinary happened | :06:07. | :06:22. | |
yesterday across the Channel The Geert, you know Wilders, | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
the Dutch Trump, did not become Not that we in Europe | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
ever thought he would. The same way you keep telling us | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
that Marine Le Pen is going to win the next presidential | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
elections in France. Marine, President de la | :06:43. | :06:55. | |
France, who says so? Oh, yes, British and American | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
tabloids, and Breitbart, of course, the news website that pretends | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
to serve the people but lies Le Pen is everywhere, | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
and I think I need a drink. It has run two glowing stories | :07:07. | :07:15. | |
about Marine Le Pen every day Because fear sells, | :07:16. | :07:27. | |
and because there is an element, as our German friends would say, | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
of schadenfreude, you know, the pleasure felt at | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
somebody else's misfortune. After Brexit and Trump, | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
the British and the Americans would so much want to see the French | :07:45. | :07:46. | |
behave as stupidly as them. But hang on, I'm not saying | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
we won't and I'm not saying we aren't capable of shooting | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
ourselves in the foot, What I'm saying, however, | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
is that there are two rounds. And unless half the electorate stays | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
at home, which never happened The real story, my friends, is the | :08:02. | :08:03. | |
rise of the centris Emmanuel Macron. Imagine that, centrism beating | :08:04. | :08:20. | |
populism in the ballot box. I raise my glass to | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
the revolutionary centre. Merci, Maman le Mot, | :08:25. | :08:35. | |
for providing our French filming locations today, | :08:36. | :08:37. | |
just by the Seine at London Bridge. Are you a modern Marie Antoinette? | :08:38. | :08:56. | |
No one expected Geert Wilders to be Prime Minister but people did thing | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
you might come first. But he was never going to be Prime Minister or | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
even in government. Everywhere mainstream parties are in retreat, | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
the Greek Labour Party, wiped out, the Dutch Labour Party, crippled | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
yesterday. The governing Socialist will not make the second round. | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
Neither will the main French centre-right party, but everything | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
is OK because of Emmanuel Macron? I am not saying everything is OK. We | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
should do another film about the collapse of the left in Europe. The | :09:25. | :09:32. | |
Social Democrats left? Well, Emmanuel Macron is a social | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
democracy, you know. But Labour or the left are in disarray everywhere | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
and that is the elephant in the room. That is why Marine Le Pen and | :09:39. | :09:46. | |
Geert Wilders are so scary. But we shouldn't be so scared. There is | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
this self fulfilling prophecy. Impending doom. We should stop being | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
so scared because that is how things happen. But maybe we have to | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
recognise what is going on and the danger that could be there. Even | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
where mainstream parties cling to power, as they are in Holland, they | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
do so by tacking to the right. Look at the Dutch Prime Minister. He is a | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
moderate centre-right guy, and he took out adverts telling immigrants | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
if they did not like Holland they should go home. He even banned | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
Turkish ministers from campaigning in the Turkish referendum. They have | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
moved to the right, away from the mainstream, because there is such a | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
threat to them. Yes, it is true. But it is not new. Marine Le Pen has | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
been around, and her father, of course, since the mid-90s. She will | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
do much better than her father. Absolutely, and the shock will be | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
for her to lose by only 20%. He got 18%. So what am I missing? It seems | :10:53. | :11:02. | |
to be quite scary if you are a centrist. It will be scary. Why | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
should not say she is not going to be elected, but I really feel this, | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
you know, coming from America and Britain especially, you don't want | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
to be alone in your misery with Brexit. I don't think that the | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
motivation. We are wondering whether there is, as I said, whether this is | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
Anglo-Saxon exceptionalism, or something is happening across the | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
western democracies. How would you categorise, weak or strong, the | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
European insurgency? I think the mistake made in your film, which is | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
pierced -- mistake made by the establishment in Britain and | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
America, is to think what happened in Brexit and with the election of | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
Trump is that the place was overrun by racists and Islamophobics. Many | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
of the people who voted for Trump were simply fed up with 80 years of | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
socialism as they saw it, and they wanted lower taxes and business to | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
flourish. And a lot of people who voted for Brexit, they included two | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
chancellors of the exchequer, Field marshals. Some of these people were | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
distinguished figures, including former Cabinet ministers like me. To | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
try and say because there was Brexit and Trump we expected Marine Le Pen | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
to win, or Geert Wilders to win, they are not connected. In fact, I | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
am pleased with the way things went in Holland because it begins to | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
destroy the myth that what is happening is a link between Brexit | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
and Islamophobia or racism. There is no link whatsoever. It is great that | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
the Islamophobics not doing well. However, you have made the point | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
that Francois Fillon is not going to figure in the election and | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
Hollande's party is not going to figure at all. That is the | :12:50. | :12:57. | |
distinction in France. Should we be worried, concerned, or is Agnes | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
right that it will come right in the end? I don't underestimate or write | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
off the far right in this country, or across continental Europe. There | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
is no far right in this country. I believe Ukip in many of the things | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
it has said and done... Far right? What would that make the BNP? The | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
poster that Nigel Farage stood in front of saying Britain was at | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
breaking point, for me, was beyond the pale. But the question is not | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
that they are there and to be taken seriously, it is what is your | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
response. And what I take the lesson from Emmanuel Macron in France is, | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
he is not ignoring the argument and is not pandering to it but taking it | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
head-on. And he said, if you are shy, you die. He is standing up and | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
fighting for what he believes in. Let's wait and see. He doesn't even | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
have a party. Agnes, respond. I agree with Liz. If indeed Emmanuel | :14:04. | :14:12. | |
Macron wins, it is a complete change of the political class. Because at | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
the moment it is recruiting what are going to be his MPs, perhaps. We are | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
talking about people who have never done politics, no professional | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
politicians. If he wins, it is the end of the statute -- the | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
establishment as we knew it. The establishment will still control the | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
assembly. He does not have a party. He will not sweep the assembly with | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
his people. He will be governing without the support of Parliament. | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
It will be a complete renewal. You should not underestimate what is | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
going on in France. The story is not so much Marine Le Pen. She is here. | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
But it is the recomposition of politics, and that is what makes it | :14:52. | :14:53. | |
exciting and perhaps hopeful. She will come from Macron on the | :14:54. | :15:04. | |
right on Islam, on immigration, globalisation... And the left as | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
well. She will come from the left on economic policy. We don't know if | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
MacRon can take a punch -- Macron. We don't know what candidate he will | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
be. First debate in a couple of days' time. He had the guts to break | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
the mould. He hasn't. He stands for the French establishment. EU | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
integration, open borders deficit reduction and globalisation. They | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
may be right. It doesn't break any mould. That is what French | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
governments stood for. He broke the party mould. He is not pandering. | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
That is the problem. We saw it in this country where if you move | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
towards your opponents on the far right, they just move further away. | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
You don't solve a problem by pandering to it. You take it head | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
on. Sglp do you have high hopes for Mr Macron? I would have fairlile | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
high hopes he will win the Presidential election I think he's a | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
completely unknown quantity. He is an establishment figure. Soft left | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
stuff. I think, in a - if I understand France, in a hierarchcle | :16:15. | :16:22. | |
country, this 39-year-old who came from nowhere will find it difficult | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
to prevail against the civil service and the organs of the state used to | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
running the country. We will see. Chirac got elected o on a reform | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
programme. Massive majority in the parliament. He was gone in six | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
months. Question yes. You know, Fillon is doing exactly the same | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
thing. I'm going to reform. We doubt he will. Actually, Macron, as you | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
say might be the new Hollande. Is France able - Unreformable? Exactly. | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
That is another question. Fascinating election, isn't it? Yes. | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
Most interesting French presidential election. Unpredictable. Thank you. | :17:06. | :17:14. | |
Good to he soo you again. -- good to see you again. | :17:15. | :17:16. | |
Now, it's late - emergency Cabinet meetings with the BBC's | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
Well, somebody has to tell ministers what's happening! | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
But for those of you hoping that Laura would make | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
an appearance this evening, she sends her apologies. | :17:25. | :17:26. | |
She's been asked to replace Theresa May at the weekly audience | :17:27. | :17:28. | |
The Queen needs to know what is going on too. | :17:29. | :17:40. | |
Then she's off to Wembley to replace Stormzy | :17:41. | :17:42. | |
But don't feel too neglected, because waiting in the wings | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
is author and historian Kate Williams, here to put | :17:48. | :17:49. | |
So stop your Faceblubber, wipe your Twitter tears, we are, | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
as always, all about the Snapcheer here. | :17:53. | :17:54. | |
Now, folks, this whole Scottish independence malarky has been one | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
The SNP aren't going back on what they said at all. | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
When Nicola Sturgeon said that the last independence | :18:03. | :18:04. | |
referendum in 2014 was a once in a lifetime event, | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
she meant a Glasgow lifetime, which means indyref2 | :18:08. | :18:09. | |
Here's Andrew Rawnsley with his round up of the political week. | :18:10. | :18:29. | |
The waters look choppy, the scurvy crew are revolting | :18:30. | :18:39. | |
and the captain can't even say whether we'll reach safe harbour | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
But I guess we should give this to the Brexiteers, | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
This week's tale was the suggestion that Brexit will all be plain | :18:49. | :19:01. | |
sailing, just so long as we get a new Royal yacht to replace | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
It is my view that it would indeed add greatly to the soft | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
power of this country, the soft power which is | :19:15. | :19:16. | |
already very considerable, if we were to have such. | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
It has always provided, I know this is part of my honourable | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
friend's prospectus, that the new Britannia should not be | :19:25. | :19:26. | |
Crow's nest, can you see any trade deal? | :19:27. | :19:36. | |
The political week seemed to start out quite well for Captain May, | :19:37. | :19:51. | |
she could even break out a ration of rum to celebrate | :19:52. | :19:53. | |
as the Brexit Bill passed through Parliament unamended. | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
The Government and the Prime Minister have been crystal clear, | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
the people of the United Kingdom have decided to leave | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
The Government will seek to implement this decision in a way | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
that's most beneficial to both the United Kingdom | :20:12. | :20:13. | |
Some thought Article 50 might even be triggered this week, | :20:14. | :20:21. | |
but then Nicola Sturgeon fired her torpedo into the hull | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
of the Government by demanding a second referendum | :20:25. | :20:26. | |
By taking the steps I have set out today, I am ensuring that Scotland's | :20:27. | :20:35. | |
future will be decided not just by me, the Scottish Government | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
or the SNP, it will be decided by the people of Scotland. | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
With Labour all at sea and the Government steering | :20:44. | :20:59. | |
towards a hard Brexit, that the majority of Scots don't | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
want, the nationalists think there may never be a better | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
opportunity to persuade Scotland to go solo. | :21:06. | :21:07. | |
Mrs May has worked that out for herself. | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
If she ever concedes to a second independence referendum, | :21:11. | :21:13. | |
she certainly doesn't want it happening at a time | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
when the Brexit voyage could be at its most perilous. | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
Right now, we should be working together, not pulling apart. | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
We should be working together to get that right deal for Scotland, | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
As I say, that's my job as Prime Minister and so, | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
for that reason, I say to the SNP, now is not the time. | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
Right, time to plot a course for Brexit. | :21:42. | :21:43. | |
Here's the chart, where on earth are we sailing to? | :21:44. | :22:01. | |
In these stormy waters, praise the Lord, that at least one | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
member of the Cabinet has a reputation as a safe pair of hands | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
Faced with a mutiny by Tory MPs, Philip Hammond had to abandon his | :22:08. | :22:22. | |
plan to demand more national insurance contributions from some | :22:23. | :22:24. | |
This Government sets great store in the faith and trust | :22:25. | :22:32. | |
of the British people, especially as we embark | :22:33. | :22:34. | |
on the process of negotiating our exit from the European Union. | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
By making this change today, we are listening to our colleagues | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
and demonstrating our determination to fulfil both the letter | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
and the spirit of our manifesto tax commitments. | :22:47. | :22:57. | |
The Budget unravelling, the Chancellor humiliated, | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
salty language being exchanged between Numbers Ten and Eleven | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
and no less than a dozen police forces investigating allegations | :23:06. | :23:07. | |
that the Conservative Party broke electoral law. | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
PMQs presented Jeremy Corbyn with a golden opportunity to boost | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
the morale of the Labour crew by hammering the Prime Minister - | :23:17. | :23:18. | |
It seems to me like a Government in a bit of chaos here. | :23:19. | :23:27. | |
A Budget, a Budget that unRAFels in seven days. | :23:28. | :23:37. | |
A Conservative manifesto with a very pensive Prime Minister | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
on the Prime Minister saying there will be no increase. | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
A week ago, an increase was announced. | :23:48. | :23:49. | |
I normally stand at this dispatch box and say | :23:50. | :23:58. | |
I won't take any lectures from the right honourable gentleman. | :23:59. | :24:00. | |
When it comes to lectures on chaos he'd be the first | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
I hate to tell you this, but I think we could be adrift. | :24:04. | :24:20. | |
The crew of the HQS Wellington caught up with Andrew | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
He is the beating heart of the Scottish nation. He may not be the | :24:27. | :24:42. | |
hero we deserve. I speak of Jon Nicolson. Welcome back to the | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
programme. Hello. Nicola Sturgeon wants another Scottish referendum in | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
2018-2019. Theresa May says there can't be one until we know the terms | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
of the Brexit deal. What happens next? Well obviously there is | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
something of a stand off, isn't there? The chaos we have seen this | :25:01. | :25:13. | |
week at Westminster with David Davis. That wasn't my question. What | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
happens next? I don't normally do that. What happens? She has got some | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
cheek. What happens next? Well, I don't think she can stand against a | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
second Scottish referendum. Next week it will be passed in the | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
Scottish Parliament. There was a clear manifesto commitment in the | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
SNP's manifesto that if we were pulled out of Europe against our | :25:37. | :25:39. | |
will we would hold a second referendum. Can you imagine the rage | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
that the Brexiteers would have felt if they had to go to Brussels and | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
ask for permission to hold a Brexit referendum? Brussels isn't part of | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
this country, Scotland is? Scots feel themselves to be a country, as | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
you know - No they feel themselves to be a nation. And a country and a | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
nation. This will be the first time that Westminster has ever overruled | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
the wishes of the holy Road Parliament if they try and do it. I | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
mean - The argument is not about the referendum, I suggest. It's about | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
the timing. Even if Nicola Sturgeon got her timetable it would take 18 | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
months to unravel Scotland from the UK. That was what was planned in | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
2014, if you had won. So you are leaving the EU no matter when the | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
referendum is because you can't unravel Scotland quickly enough | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
before Britain leaves the EU? What we have been told by David Davis, | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
haven't we, is that 18 months from now there will be a deal on the | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
table. He hopes. That is what he said to us. Right. There has to be | :26:45. | :26:51. | |
unless there is to be complete chaos - We need six months, don't we, for | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
all the parliaments of the European Union to pass the You need 18 deal. | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
Months minimum to get Scotland out of the UK? What, as I understand it, | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
Mrs May is saying, is that Scots should be presented with a deal | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
before they vote. Now, that seems to contradict what the Brexit Secretary | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
says. He says there will be a deal for the all the European | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
parliament's to see in 18 months. There might not be. You know Europe | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
goes down to the wire? I do know that. Who is right. Mrs May? We | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
don't know until we get there? Or the Brexit Secretary. Is the Prime | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
Minister playing with fire by not conceding a second referendum on | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
Nicola Sturgeon's timetable? Well, what I heard Mrs May say was this | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
was not the time. There is nothing, she has not said anything about | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
there not being another referendum. Which I must say I think is rather | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
mag man muss? Really? It was only two-and-a-half years ago that the | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
Scottish people last voted. The last time the Scottish people voted they | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
voted to be part of the United Kingdom. One of the consequences | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
whether there is a referendum or not is a matter for the United Kingdom? | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
Ruth Davidson promised us if we stayed in the United Kingdom. I'm | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
answering your points. I kept quiet during your recent monologue. Mrs | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
May has said nothing at all about there not being another referendum. | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
What has been quite significant, I think this week, is that although | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
it's alleged by Nicola Sturgeon that this is being industryingered | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
because we've decided to leave the European Union, she now says that | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
she's not in anyway committed to reenter the European Union. Now, if | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
that isn't a magnificent piece of ill logic, I don't know what it is. | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
Is it not guaranteed that if Scotland was independent you would | :28:40. | :28:42. | |
apply to join again? We would. Definitely? We would. We want to be | :28:43. | :28:49. | |
in the European Union. What about the EFA? There are routes into the | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
European Union. We would want to be in the European Union. I think one | :28:53. | :29:02. | |
of the significant and in the noticeable things is the changing in | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
attitudes in the capitals of Europe. The European leaders weren't that | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
keen on us splitting away. They saw us as the pod boys trying to break | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
up a state. I have been in Berlin recently. Who is in favour? I spoke | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
to the chair of the Select Committee, the Treasury Select | :29:24. | :29:25. | |
Committee and the EU Select Committee. Was he in favour of | :29:26. | :29:33. | |
Scottish independence The EU Select Committee Chair said Scotland will | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
regain entry into the European Union more quickly and more easily than | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
any other applicant in history. The chair of the Treasury Select | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
Committee said to me Scotland has a sympathetic ear in Germany. But you | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
are conceding what you denied in the last referendum, is that you would | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
have to reapply? It being loos likely. You wouldn't concede it last | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
time. I I don't think you asked me. I asked plenty of Scottish | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
nationalists. The Scottish National 's manifesto | :30:03. | :30:11. | |
for the Holyrood election said they reserved the right to call another | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
referendum if there was a material change in Scotland's circumstances. | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
Brexit is a material change. I think people are sick of division. That is | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
my sense of this. It was such a divisive campaign last time. We have | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
had the EU campaign on top of that. And people, I think, don't want to | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
go back to that situation. That's why we are going to be voting | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
against, in the Scottish parliament, against a second referendum. But | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
would Mrs May be right to deny a second referendum until the Brexit | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
deal is done? It couldn't happen until then, so people have a genuine | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
choice. The difficulty for Nicola Sturgeon is that actually many | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
people who voted yes to independent, about a third, actually want to | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
leave the EU. And the split between those in favour of independence or | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
not has not changed since the Brexit vote, and she wants to make it the | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
winning argument but I think that may not be the case. Quickly, | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
because we have time in months to come to go through this, but if and | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
when there is a second referendum, will the SNP be able to tell the | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
Scottish people what the currency of an independent Scotland would be? | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
Yes, I believe so. What would it be? That has not been announced. As you | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
know, Andrew Wilson has a commission on this at the moment. And will you | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
tell us what tax and spend you would do to get the fiscal deficit, | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
currently 10%, down to the EU's 3% limit? This is also a matter Andrew | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
Wilson is looking at at the moment. So we don't know about public | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
finances, the currency, what deal it would go back into. You are asking | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
people to make a decision on the basis of this? He is saying they | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
will know at the time of the referendum. We shall see. Our | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
damaged is Phillip Hammond by this National Insurance business? David | :32:17. | :32:24. | |
Cameron described Mrs May as submarine May because she lurked | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
under the waters. She seems to have fired a torpedo effectively at the | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
Chancellor and I would say he is listing to port. How damaged is | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
Jeremy Corbyn in his response to the Tory crisis? The response I would | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
like to have seen us make is that Philip Hammond has failed on reform. | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
We have to sort out the fact that we have more people who are sold to | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
employ than on the minimum wage, more self-employed than will work in | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
the public sector by the end of the parliament. Any decent sick pay, | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
maternity pay and holiday pay, and we need to sort out the tax system. | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
We need reform. He has flunked it on reform and he has boxed himself in. | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
We have ended with a ridiculous situation where the Chancellor, | :33:09. | :33:11. | |
forget talking about public finances with what is happening on Brexit, | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
but he has boxed himself in on tax, boxed and self in on spending on all | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
these different departments, and what we need is reform. Reform of | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
the public finances, our public services, and to make sure that we | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
get a decent tax take an proper protections for the self-employed. | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
He has failed on reform and that is the problem. It illustrates the | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
Government's weakness on a relatively minor matter, and a | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
government that face not minor matters which we have been talking | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
about in Scotland and Brexit, too. If you were sitting in Edinburgh | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
like Mrs Sturgeon, or one of the European leaders, you would think, I | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
can negotiate pretty toughly with this government and it crumbles. It | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
was such an amazingly quick about turn, but I had my head in my hands | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
watching Jeremy Corbyn, with an open goal, failing to score. I was | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
thinking, I think the problem with Jeremy Corbyn, who I think is a very | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
decent man, is that he is just not used to debating because his whole | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
political history he has preached to the choir, spoken to fellow | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
travellers. And he just doesn't seem to have the verbal dexterity to | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
stand up in the Commons and fire up when he needs to and be sharp. I | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
know it is immensely frustrating for his supporters throughout the | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
country. Indeed it is. Thank you. Good to see you again. | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
Now, dear old Michael has been having a bit | :34:41. | :34:42. | |
and it's been taking its toll on the rest of us. | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
Every night this week he's been calling me around | :34:48. | :34:49. | |
four in the morning, clearly under the influence | :34:50. | :34:51. | |
Through the incoherent mumbling, often drowned out by the Thomas | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
the Tank Engine theme tune playing loudly in the background, | :34:56. | :34:57. | |
he rambles on about Diane leaving him for Jezza. | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
So to help him with his heartbreak we've decided to put nostalgia | :35:01. | :35:02. | |
# What happened to the world we knew?# | :35:03. | :35:21. | |
On Commonwealth Day, the great and the good celebrated global | :35:22. | :35:23. | |
connections formed when Britain ruled the waves. | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
Such a pleasure to be here and really | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
Is Brexit about returning to these halcyon days? | :35:33. | :35:40. | |
On Tuesday, the Prime Minister seemed to think so. | :35:41. | :35:42. | |
We will be a strong, self-governing, global Britain. | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
With control once again over our borders and our laws. | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
Or is it actually the Remainers who long for | :35:56. | :35:57. | |
On Monday, Lord Tavern seemed to pine for a time | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
when Parliament, not the people, ruled the day. | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
The House of Commons has now, in effect, abandoned the | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
principle of parliamentary democracy, and has taken the view | :36:10. | :36:11. | |
that the referendum verdict is sacrosanct | :36:12. | :36:12. | |
They have to obey the will of the people. | :36:13. | :36:25. | |
Meanwhile, the Donald spent Wednesday looking backwards for | :36:26. | :36:27. | |
And we will make America great again. | :36:28. | :36:44. | |
Historian Kate Williams spends her days studying | :36:45. | :36:54. | |
So are we living in an age of political nostalgia? | :36:55. | :37:13. | |
Happy memories for Michael. Kate Williams joins us. Welcome back to | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
the programme. We are in a bit of an age of nostalgia. It has had a | :37:22. | :37:28. | |
comeback, hasn't it? Definitely in industry but particularly in | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
politics. Nostalgia for certain parts of history. World War II | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
features very heavily. We saw this throughout the referendum campaign. | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
My jaw Farage's Brexit bus was playing the great escape music. | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
About the prisoners of war who escaped the camp. There was a lot of | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
talk about Churchill and whether he would be Leave or Remain. People | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
were comparing Nigel Farage to a blitz defensive bomb. We often talk | :37:59. | :38:06. | |
about our history but we always remember the bits we want to | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
remember. The pony on the walls, Trafalgar. We don't remember things | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
like the Opium Wars, the Anglo Dutch wars in the 17th century. But in the | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
Rijksmuseum, there are pictures of the Anglo Dutch War everywhere | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
because they inflicted quite cataclysmic defeats on us. It is | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
nice sometimes to wallow in nostalgia but it is always | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
selective. Yes. The nostalgia bubble of what we like to remember. They | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
are times when Britain was winning and when we engaged in fair play. I | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
guess you could include America, with Mr Trump's victory and | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
supporters, but is this a particularly British phenomenon at | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
the moment, this nostalgia? Do we see it in Europe as well? It is a | :38:50. | :38:56. | |
strong 21st-century trend, because we have not quite defined the | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
21st-century. But we definitely see it in America. Make America great | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
again. I hear he has patented keep America great for his next campaign. | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
So he is obviously expecting to achieve it pretty quickly. Do you | :39:12. | :39:18. | |
think it is part of a reaction against globalisation, against | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
modernity, people feeling, for those who feel the world has not gone | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
their way, nostalgia is attractive? I think so. Certainly in America | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
there is a lot of must Alger for the 1950s, for the 1950s high school, | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
when America felt that the world power. But not nostalgia for | :39:40. | :39:50. | |
segregation. This is it. Donald Trump says make America great again | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
but it is a very selective vision. But that is very powerful and it is | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
working in America and I think it has worked. History has figured | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
heavily throughout the referendum campaign. Mr Johnson compared you -- | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
the EU to Hitler. Are you nostalgic about anything, may be times when | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
Labour was winning elections? 1997 when we started winning elections. | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
That was a forward-looking election. It was. Change can be frightening | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
and there is a tendency to think you can stop it, but you cannot stop the | :40:30. | :40:37. | |
invention of technology, or Chinese expansion. The question is can you | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
see is change and make it work for most people. That is when you win | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
elections, and I certainly do miss that. What are you nostalgic about, | :40:47. | :40:55. | |
Michael? Power, influence? No, I am completely relaxed about all that. | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
You have us now. Of course I think history explains Brexit. The | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
continental experience of the 20th century was coming as, fascism, | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
invasion, the destruction of democratic institutions and the rule | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
of law. The British experience was the survival of Parliamentary | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
democracy and its institutions. So our European partners feel insecure | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
and want European institutions to guarantee security. We don't have | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
that feeling at all. They had strong reasons to come together for their | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
national identity. Ours was essentially an economic reason. We | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
join for economic reasons. We were a basket case at the time. You are | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
right, it was not integral to our national identity. Are there times | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
when nostalgia comes to the fore, as at the moment? Yes, when we struggle | :41:50. | :41:56. | |
to define our future we start to look intensively at the past. We | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
have seen quite a lot of it recently with enthusiasm for Empire 2.0, we | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
are recalling the time when Britain ruled three court is of the worlds | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
population. And our vision that we created a benign empire, whereas | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
many who were part of it would disagree. We see nostalgia | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
functioning quite heavily. It often functions heavily in dictatorships, | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
too. Pol Pot might be the most extreme example. We will see how | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
long this particular period of nostalgia lasts. What are you up to? | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
Finishing a book about the 1930s. In the United Kingdom? The United | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
Kingdom and America. Writing hard. That's your lot for tonight, | :42:44. | :42:45. | |
folks, but not for us. We're off to Lou Lou's | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
for the Jeremy Corbyn Search Ever since his game-changing | :42:49. | :42:50. | |
triumph at PMQs this week, the Labour leader has been | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
worryingly quiet, so we're spending our evening cross | :42:54. | :42:55. | |
referencing any reports of stolen manhole covers with his | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
potential whereabouts. If you can hear us, | :42:59. | :43:00. | |
Jeremy, please come back, We've even laid out some | :43:01. | :43:02. | |
of your favourite Peruvian dates in the shape of a heart in the hope | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
of luring you to turn up. Don't let BoJo's raw | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
sexual magnetism bite. MUSIC: Take My Breath | :43:13. | :43:21. | |
Away, by Berlin. On last week's Let's Sing Dance, | :43:22. | :44:04. | |
there was musicals... It looks a bit like lads run out of | :44:05. | :44:07. | |
budget on an Amsterdam stag night. | :44:08. | :44:14. |