27/04/2017 This Week

In 2017, there were 2689 News channels broadcasting fake news, 24

hours a day. But in the country that gave you David Dimbleby and Jeremy

Paxman, the only way to really hear what was happening in the general

election was to June into a boat. You are listening to This Week's

pirate radio. We are counting on you as we count down to the big four.

Off we go. Jeremy Corbyn is the real deal and I think he will top the

charts. They were called pirates. Pirate radio,... These are the high

seas. And I am a sad man on the left. And I am lining up the

political times for a little programme called this Week. That's

our radio show. I thought it was a trashy TV programme with loads of

sad old men. The bands made them famous. The government made them

outlaws. Drug takers, lawbreakers, we are going to shut them down. I

will tell you what is rock'n'roll. Figure out how you are a minority

and let that difference shine. We will find a way. The man hates

people like us. Tonight, pirate radio dies. But we were so good. We

should have our own TV show. Where's Andrew? , bored!

Welcome to This Week, the programme of choice

And judging by our buoyant ratings, there appear to be quite a lot

of you out there including, according to Boris

Yes, elections are always enlivened when BoJo reaches

for his well-thumbed thesaurus, and one of the delights of the last

24 hours has been watching the media turn on a sixpence.

Having reported widely on Wednesday that BoJo was being written out

of the Tory campaign script, they then rushed on Thursday to fill

their front pages and broadcasts with his latest utterances.

Normally, we would not dare to cross swords with Boris when it

comes to vocabulary - especially Latin or Greek vocabulary

- but now that he's deploying a term of abuse from the American political

lexicon, which is where mugwump comes from, then no Oxford

classicist is going to get the better of us.

So we say this to the Foreign Secretary -

you may think the Labour leader a mugwump, but we will not let any

prestidigitation on your part sully this election and we're on the look

out for double-shuffling, honeyfuggling, hornswoggling

and boondoggling from whatever party it emanates from in this campaign.

I think you know what we mean, Mr Johnson.

And if you do, I'd be grateful if you could let us know too.

Because, not for the first time, we have no idea

Speaking of those for whom words have no meaning, I'm joined

on the sofa tonight by two old timers stuck in a time warp

Think of them as the Banana and Rama of late night political chat.

I speak of course of Alan #SadManOnTheLeft Johnson and Michael

Your moment of the week, Michael. Following the first round of the

French election, the President of the European Commission was very

pleased that Mr Macron had beaten Marine Le Pen. First of all, he is

an official of the European Union and has no business interfering in

the internal politics of a member state. Also, he should not be so

happy because 45% of the French people voted for parties which are

antipathetic to the European Union, in France, a founder member of the

Common Market. But what Europe is on course to do, as ever, is to ignore

these substantial minorities, a minority that is only just a

minority in France, get on with more, closer and stronger Europe and

the rest of it. It is a good reason to be on the outside. Your moment of

the week. On that theme, a splash in the Times on Saturday which said

that the Trump administration had said they would put as a priority a

trade deal with the EU. In January when Boris Johnson went to meet

Donald Trump, they had a story that said they would put Britain at the

front. The story was enlightening in terms of Trump's learning process.

Apparently, he met Angela Merkel and said ten times, I want to do a trade

deal with Germany. And ten times she said, you do a trade deal with the

EU. And on the 11th time, the penny dropped. He realised if he wanted to

deal with Germany, he would do it with the EU, so he made his priority

a trade deal with the EU. I was with Paul Ryan last week, and he was head

of a bipartisan group here in London, he said Britain was the

priority. You tell him, Andrew. Put him right. As usual, Washington

speaks with forked tongues. The Tories want to make leadership

central to this election, largely because in the polls

and focus groups Theresa May scores heavily over

Jeremy Corbyn on the issue. But is it really all

over bar the shouting? Can the Labour leader's policies

and qualities cut through the May mantra of "strong and stable

government" and give us Here's Giles Fraser

with his take of the week. I do love pottering around

in the vicarage garden, doing the weeding, helping

make things grow. And when I'm out here with time

to think and my hands covered in earth, I do feel I get a wider

perspective on the things that matter most in life,

the importance of everyone living on this planet peacefully,

the importance of there Do you know, maybe that's why I'm

a fan of Jeremy Corbyn. He's not like one of those

politicians that's just stepped out of an investment bank,

and he doesn't look like he's been on one of those

media courses either. He reminds me of one of those

17th-century diggers who go on about the earth being a common

treasury for all. He seems like an ordinary bloke

concerned with ordinary people. He's often got the lowest expenses

of any other parliamentarian, and for me has clearly got

the well-being of the poor and the disadvantaged

very much at heart. I trust him not

to start stupid wars. I trust him to try and get

rid of nuclear weapons. And I trust him not to represent

the interests of big business. Look, I know he's

behind in the polls. But the pollsters have got it wrong

a lot of times before. And I think he's a decent bloke,

who is making the case with quite And I think people should

give him a chance. The rose has always been

popular with socialists. I know this one's a bit battered,

but they are remarkably hardy plants and they'll survive and flourish

in the most difficult Welcome to the programme. Where is

Mr Corbyn's brand of socialism work? I hope it will work here. But where

has it worked elsewhere? I think it is a brand for the future, actually.

We are in a time when we really need someone to start talking about

common ownership, about a preference for the poor. I think we desperately

need someone to start talking about how we make peace around the world.

But there is no precedent for this? Well, I think he is the person that

could do it. But it hasn't been tried anywhere else? There isn't

anybody quite liked Jeremy Corbyn that I can think of. No, I can't

think of anybody quite liked Jeremy Corbyn. It hasn't been a popular

sort of politics. I would like to see it more popular. So you want the

country to put faith in a man who has been impolitic for 40 years or

so but never been in power, -- who has been in politics for 40 years

but never been in power with a blueprint that has no precedents?

Yes, that is what it is to change. Things have gone so wrong in this

country and so out of whack that we are desperate for something

different. And I trust him, you know. I trust him, that he has the

interests of ordinary people at heart. As I said, I trust that he

will not start stupid wars, that he will try to register dependency on

nuclear weapons, that he is not in the pocket of big business. You say

that, but it is not Labour policy to end the nuclear deterrent. I was

careful in my construction. I said I trust him to argue for it. He

clearly wants to end it. He has a difference with his party but I am

within. But he would be elected on a manifesto of keeping the nuclear

deterrent. My faith is in him. Why would you trust him to be elected on

a part of a manifesto he does not agree with? My instinct is that he

is much more antinuclear than the rest of his party and I am putting

my faith in him on that. Is he looking at Jeremy Corbyn through

rose tinted glasses? He was in the Rose garden. Jeremy has never

professed to be anything different than he is now. In that sense, he

has never changed. I understand the view of this attraction of someone

who sticks to the views they have had since they were 15. But this is

his chance. This is his chance. You said give him a chance. For six

weeks, he is going to get, with the balanced broadcast on the BBC and

the rest of it, with all the attention that will be on him,

whether this can break through, whether this amazing appeal that

Jeremy has had too many young people, you find this all the time,

teenagers who do not remember the militant years, who see something

fresh, whether that can translate into... I think he is wrong to vote

with Theresa May to have the election. I voted against that. It

is amazing. It is history now, but that we should agree with Theresa

May on this incredible idea that the country is coming together but

Westminster isn't. It is fine for to do this but she came in on a

Fixed-term Parliaments Act we have now allowed her to have an election

after two years. Could you be forgiven for thinking that Alan is

setting Mr Corbyn up for a fail? He is giving him six weeks. Of rope.

The other day he was willing to give him 15 months, but I think Alan is

right, he does have six weeks. Giles' film was touching. I was

moved by it. It was the best effort that can be made to argue for Jeremy

Corbyn. It is just a pity Giles is not a member of Parliament because

the vast majority of Labour members of Parliament have expressed no

confidence in him. Day after day, Labour spokesmen go on the media and

are asked the rather difficult question. You said before that

Jeremy Corbyn can't cut it, and now you are representing Labour Party

policy. This is going to be a continual difficulty in the

election, that even the people in the Shadow Cabinet now had resigned

in the past, and most have a clear record of saying this man cannot be

a leader. You are right and it is problematic. I don't know whether

Jeremy Corbyn has to go, even if he loses this election. I'm not

entirely sure that is right. I think he has been undermined by many

people within his party, and I think it is incredibly difficult to be a

leader of a political party if all of your MPs just constantly asked

adding you in the back. Let me bring you back to some issues Mr Corbyn

has raised. Before you can redistribute wealth to the poor, you

need to create it. What evidence do you have that Mr Corbyn knows how to

create wealth. The other way of looking at it this to say that we --

we would be a more equal but a poorer society. I would be happy

with us being more equal but a poorer society. That's an election

winning slogan? It's not an election winning slogan. I'm not standing for

election. Even if we wanted to be poorer, if you are going to

redistribute wealth, you need to create it to do it. How do we know

that Mr Corbyn knows how to create wealth? He would not create wealth.

It is the wealth creators out in the country. He would set the

conditions. Absolutely. But we have this obsession that we have to let

these people who apparently make the money... Actually, wealth is not

something that is sort of made by entrepreneurs. Wealth is in the

world. It is the resources that we have and that we all have in common.

And I am suspicious of the idea that we need to be totally in hock to

entrepreneurs. I simply asked how Mr Corbyn would create it. Let me ask

another. You mentioned several times that Mr Corbyn was a man of peace.

How does that square with his past ties to Hamas, Hezbollah and Sinn

Fein IRA? In order to make peace, you have to talk to the bad guys.

When he talked to Sinn Fein and IRA it wasn't to make peace. He wanted

the IRA to winch he wanted a united Ireland? A lot of people want a

united Ireland Why does it make him a man of peace - I didn't say that

is what makes him a man of peace, you brought that up. I'm gjing him -

I think he is a man of peace. If he supports Hamas and Hezbollah. We are

high-and-mighty, we talk to people behind-the-scenes we won't be

upfront about the fact we talk to people... Hold on, he wasn't talking

to Hezbollah to say - you need to make peace with Israel, you need to

get round the table. He didn't talk to to Hezbollah for that? That's the

long-term aim of the context. The short-term aim was to drive Israel

into the sea. Does that sound like a man of peace. That is not his aim.

I'm not saying that was his. That was Hezbollah and Hamas. The

question is, do we keep our hands clean by never talking to the

baddies or do we make peace and dirty our hand by doing it and

actually there is a much better outcome for everybody I think too

many politicians are squeamish about talking to the bodies and we don't

make peace of it. Are the Tories so far ahead because of Theresa May or

Jeremy Corbyn? A a little bit of both. When I first saw there was

going to be a election I thought to myself - it will be a crushing Tory

victory. I thought that is not right, it will be a crushing Labour

defeat. The principle factor will be the poor performance of the Labour

Party. That having been said, I'm quite struck by a level of

contentment in the country there seems to be with this Prime Minister

who in a short period of time has given an impression of strength and

has not committed the Cameron mistake of being too mouthy shechl

hasn't said a thing. Or done anything. Isn't the key word

"impression"? I would agree. But politics is all about impressions

and she's got the impression right and now she's decided to have an

election. She's probably got the impression and the timing right. If

the Doring Tories do win by a landslide, what happens to Mr

Corbyn? He has to go, of course. Giles doesn't say that. He said he

should stay. No leader can Corry on after a defeat. There is a poll this

morning shows personal ratings of May coming down and Corbyn going up.

A lot to be done in six weeks. Some of this is about what you were

talking, the impression. Many people I've spoken to, vicar's daughter, an

election might be good for me personally and my party. I will not

have one. She poured cold water on it, so did Number Ten, three weeks

ago, we shouldn't look sight of the fact she has broken her word. She

introduced fix term parliament. She is running to the country. It's wet

better to do it now... It's water under the bridge. It is, but while

we are having a discussion about personal integrity I think it's

valid. Not me though. Today is your last day as an MP. Next Wednesday.

The Parliament is gone now, you won't be in a chamber again. No. Are

you standing down partly out of despair? I'm standing down

absolutely because of my age and I don't want to do another five years

as a member of Parliament. It has nothing to do with the state of the

parties. Do you expect, because you said you don't believe the polls.

There is often be very good reason for that. Do you expect top see the

polls starting to narrow? I'm not an anorak like you, Andrew, I don't

watch the polls all the time. You won't win? Is I'm taking the

Leicester City defence on this. What does that mean? No-one thought

Leicester City could win anything. They managed to do it against all

the odds. There may well be a movement and Jeremy Corbyn might

surprise a lot of people. OK, the polls indicate otherwise, but, you

know, the pollsters have been wrong a lot. They would have to be really

wrong this time, wouldn't they? There would be a lot of egg on a lot

of face. There surely would. That might not be a gad thing either.

Giles Frazier, thank you. Now, it's late, nights out in Soho

with Tim Farron late. It's not been a great week

for the Lib Dem leader. He wants to talk about Brexit,

but was repeatedly drawn off script to explain his attitude to gay sex

and anti-Semitism in his party. He's not quite the poster boy

for gays or Jews these days and if you're a gay Jew,

then he's almost certainly But cheer up, Little Tim,

because waiting in the wings is screenwriter, producer

and director extraordinaire, Dustin Lance Black, here to put

minorities in our Spotlight. So throw on the Fleecebook,

phone your Instagranny and fire up the Twitterdrivel,

my little Snap numptys. The Tory lead in the polls has led

to much talk of tactical voting and progressive alliances clubbing

behind the person most likely to beat the Tory

in any constituency. Tony Blair gave the idea a whirl

on Sunday, then kinda The nation was too traumatised

by his threat to return There are a few constituencies

where it's being tried, often involving Greens making way

for Lib Dems and vice-versa. There are infinite variations to it

and, tho it's unlikely to have much impact in the end,

one projection I saw resulted in a Plaid Cymru with an overall

majority led by Pete Here's Helen Lewis with her round up

of the political week. When This Week first said

they wanted me to 'do an Aaron Banks', I worried

they meant going to Clacton. So I've dodged the battle buses,

baby kissing and BBC editorial guidelines and taken

to the high seas. Yes, I've launched a pirate radio

station - This Week FM. We'll be broadcasting live around

the clock to our loyal listener. What do you say DJ

Cabin Boy, a sea shanty! # What do you do

with a drunken sailor. # Early in the morning #.

with a drunken sailor Labour wants to fight

this election on jobs, living standards and public

services, but it had to start the week by clarifying its position

on Trident after Jeremy Corbyn said in an interview that the nuclear

deterrent was still up for debate. Would a Labour Government cancel

the Trident programme? Well, we will have a Strategic

Defence Review immediately which will include all aspects

of defence, as most Look, I've made clear my views

on nuclear weapons. I've made clear that there

would be no first use of it. I've made clear that any use

of nuclear weapons is a disaster You're listening to the salty

stylings of This Week FM. Cabin Boy, you've

tweeted the subwaffers. This is an election,

I need to be broadcasting clearly. This of course is the Brexit

election, and Labour sought to put some clear blue water

between themselves and the Conservatives,

promising to safeguard the rights of EU nationals

in the UK on day one. But, just like the Tories,

Labour's position on overall numbers Freedom of movement has to go and,

therefore, it will have to change, but we must have immigration that

works for our communities and for our economy and that means

that there has to be movement of people to come and

work in this country. How that's managed will

have to be resolved. Labour's difficulty is this -

how does it win over voters from Ukip and the Tories

without losing them And talking of the Greens,

they've stood aside in two London seats, Ealing and Acton,

so they don't split the left. Tactical voting, while not

officially sanctioned from the top, looks set to play a big role

in this election. The whole idea around progressive

alliances is that it isn't just one party standing down for another,

but it's people reciprocating, people working together,

recognising the common good Fresh from a by-election defeat,

it's leader, Paul Nuttall is running on a pretty

clear anti-Muslim agenda. He called for a ban on the burka

and was forced to clarify it # Wicked, wicked,

jungle is massive #. That means beekeepers, Beefeaters,

the Cat in the Hat and even Speedy Gonzales are all welcome

in Paul Nuttall's integrated utopia. I mean, the fact is the veil

covers the full face. For CCTV to be effective,

you have to see people's faces. But there's another element to this,

an important element, As Dame Casey's report showed,

we're not integrating fast enough. In fact, communities

are becoming more divided and for people to integrate fully,

you need to see people's faces. The Lib Dems might have

been all at sea over Tim Farron's religious views,

but there were positive signs, too. They say party membership is over

100,000 and Tim Farron wants to position himself as -

the real opposition. If you believe that it should not be

politicians who stitch up the final deal in two years' time,

but the British people who should have the final say

and that would include, by the way, the right to remain

if that is what they choose. And if you believe that Britain

needs a decent, strong opposition, the Liberal Democrats are the only

party for you. We have been clear today

and I have been clear today, that we will not be entering

into coalition or any deal whatsoever with Labour

or Conservatives under Theresa May Meanwhile, there's no love

lost between Theresa May In fact, the First Minister

definitely knows who she thinks The issue and the threat

at this election is that, due to Labour's complete

unelectability, we face an unfettered, out of

control Tory Government. We know that the Prime Minister

wants to silence opposition. So the question for Scotland is this

- if you want a strong opposition to the Tories,

if you want MPs who will stand up and be a voice for Scotland,

then the only party to support at this election

is this one, the SNP. Still, with such a whopping poll

lead, the Tories can afford to run a low-key or,

shall we say, dull campaign. So Theresa May went

to Bridgend in Wales, formally a Labour heartland,

where she delivered her key message Every single vote for me

and the local Conservative candidate will be a vote for a stronger Wales,

for a stronger United Kingdom and, as I say, will strengthen my

hand in those important And a vote for any other party

would be a vote for a weak and failing Jeremy Corbyn,

propped up by a coalition of chaos which would risk

our national future. So, the battle lines are clear,

but there are still big questions to answer on taxes,

pensions and spending. Not that you'll know

it from the last PMQs of the parliamentary season

which both Corbyn and May used as a kind of unofficial party

political broadcast. They are strong against the weak

and weak against the strong. Mr Speaker, the election

on the 8th June is a choice ..between a Conservative Government

for the few and a Labour Government that will stand up for all

of our people. In something over six weeks,

we will be back at these dispatch boxes again and the only question

is - where will we be standing? Who will be Prime Minister

of this great country? He says the choice is clear,

and the choice is clear. Every vote for him is a vote

for a coalition of chaos. A weak leader, propped up

by the Liberal Democrats Every vote for me is a vote

for strong and stable leadership. With us now, Green Super-woman,

Sian Berry and SNP Super to have you both. Thank you.

Is this election as much a foregone conclusion as the polls would have

us believe I don't think so. The exciting thing going on is the

discussion about potential alliances. We are not talking about

doing it in every single seat. In a handful of seats where it might work

it seems to be coming together. People are genuinely talking about

it. The polls don't tell you what will happen in these handful of

seats. I think it is very unpredictable what we will end up. A

handful of seats, if the polls are right, will not be enough to stop a

Tory landslide? It wouldn't. She will run ramp pant if she gets a

majority more than 100. She might run ramp pant with 50. She might.

She says she doesn't want opposition. There's that old line,

that cliche - nobody leaves Number Ten Downing Street entirely sane.

The big your majority the worse it is. Look at Margaret Thatcher, the

way she behaved in Scotland. Left unhappy memories in Scotland. Does

that apply to the SNP who have so many seats in Scotland?

You swept Scotland with a massive majority. Surely the same principle

applies. That is the voting system we have. I don't think big

majorities are good for government. They don't lead to sensitive,

measured That is the government. Point of the progressive alliance.

The reason it's so important is to prevent a large Tory majority but

also to get a majority of people in parliament who are willing to change

the voting system so we have a more grownup and diverse You are a

politics. Long way from that. What do the Greens hope to achieve in

this election We at the moment in the election campaign we are leading

the conversation we put ourselves out there, putting our principles

before party. What do you hope to achieve To argue for improving the

NHS. Things we can achieve without, if we can stop the Tory majority we

can get proper Brexit negotiations, a final say for the public on Brexit

and prevent the enormous increase in child poverty, the chaos that is

happening in the NHS. Any normal parent - Mr Corbyn wants to do that

as well. Why not Forlan him We are distinct parties. Everything you

just said there is part of Mr Corbyn's agenda. His chances may not

be great. They are better than yours. We have bold social policies.

We are more creative with our social policies than Labour. We are the

party you can trust on the environment. With air pollution on

the front pages every single day at the moment, the Government doing

everything it can to get out of doing anything about it. We are

there with an important message. If you double your seats, will you have

two. You are on a long-haul to nowhere? We are doing something more

exciting. We are offering voters the choice of changing politics forever

by - It doesn't seem - By voting and being tactical about how to prevent

a Conservative majority. The Germans have the voting system you want or a

version of. One of the ones we might choose. Even the German Greens, far

better established than you, they have been in Government, more bigger

party, they are struggling to poll 5% in the run-up to the German

elections. Maybe the age of a separate Green Party if it can't

survive that well in Germany is coming to an end? Vote for Greens up

to 10%, 20% in countries around Europe. We have a strong voice in

some of the governments around Europe. There is - My line is - if

the German Greens have been the most successful Green Party in Europe

they are in decline that must cause you concern?

They are still a strong party. If they do not get 5%, they get no

seats in parliament. That is the national parliament. We are running

governments around the German federal state. We are strong in

Sweden and many countries around the world. What is this election about

for the SNP? I agree with the Prime Minister. I think this election is

about Brexit. I think Britain will get a very rough deal. We heard that

from Mrs Merkel today. I have been in Germany recently talking to

politicians there and there is unity among the 27. I think the deal is

going to be very tough. But what is the election about? It is about

electing a parliament which I hope will provide sufficiently strong

opposition that Mrs May is constrained, because I don't want to

see her with a huge majority. The party that Mrs May is nervous of is

the SNP. She's not worried about the Labour Party because it is divided,

she is worried about the SNP. The Lib Dems are not going to get more

than a handful of seats. Is the SNP still in favour of joining the EU?

Yes. I don't know what will be in the manifesto because I'm not

involved in writing it. I am involved in drafting things for my

area, culture, media and sport. Has not been clear, the SNP's... I think

it is. The chair of the EU select committee in Berlin in the Bundestag

told me that Scotland would gain faster and easier entry to the

European Union than any other applicant. You said that last time.

I wondered if there was a clear commitment for an independent

Scotland to join the EU in the manifesto. I hope so because I think

it is the right policy. You don't know. What do you make of the

Progressive Alliance idea? I think the Lib Dems have pulled out of

Brighton to give Caroline Lucas a clear run but that only gives you

the seat you already have. We can win Bristol on our own, we do not

need a deal there. You pulled out of Richmond to give the Lib Dems a

clear run. I do think that has been decided. Does it work? One of the

things that brings progressive together is unanimity that they want

higher public spending. What that means is passing a bigger burden of

debt down to our children and grandchildren. That means people who

do not have very much money paying income taxes so that the interest on

the debt can be paid to people who are rich enough to own gilts or

government bonds. So there is nothing progressive about this, it

is a policy for the redistribution of wealth from the poorer people to

the richer people. My second thought on the Progressive Alliance is that

the thought last time that a Labour government would be propped up by

the SNP was one of the things that killed Labour's chances of winning.

I think people will be very suspicious of this Progressive

Alliance again. What is your view of this? I don't think you can do it

between parties. People have to do it themselves. If Labour was to pull

out in some instances that would be outrageous because there are people

who want to vote Labour. So people have to do it themselves. It is not

beyond them. I do not think it works so well in general elections. It is

better in by-elections. Europe is a big issue which transcends party

politics, more important than general elections. Theresa May has

reacted to Angela Merkel by saying that we are holding up Brexit. She

is holding it up by having a bloody election, losing two months of her

precious two years. Nothing can happen. The French are in the middle

of a very messy election. Mr Macron, if it is him, will take several

weeks to put a government together. But you take my point, we are not

holding up anything. Whether she has chosen the election is up to her,

but she has chosen a time which has almost zero impact on Brexit the

gauche Asians because of what is happening in France and Germany. You

are right, it is very important that it is not a back room deal, which is

why we are encouraging people to talk about it in public. You do not

need party leaders to agree at the grassroots are talking about it

anyway. The voters get it. In the 1997 election there were examples of

people doing tactical voting of their own accord. To talk about it

openly is important. Is in the alliance mostly a Conservative spin

doctor lion that they are feeding to the press? We all know the Labour

Party is going to get absolutely whipped. So are the Conservatives if

you believe the Progressive Alliance. All the briefing I have

had on it has been from the Green Party and people in the Lib Dems and

some in the Labour Party. You hear the Conservatives talking about it

all the time, not a Progressive Alliance but a coalition of chaos.

Mrs May says this every ten minutes. And these talks are not going on.

There are a fuse seats where there is locally some discussion. There is

huge debate. Maybe not so much in Scotland but people are inundating

the Green Party office, ringing up to work out how to support

Progressive Alliance. Because your membership has fallen. Jeremy Corbyn

is bad news for the Greens and Theresa May is probably bad news for

Ukip. She is very good news for the SNP. Really? You are going to lose

seats in Scotland, partly because you're coming off a high. It is

true, we won many seats last time. There is only one way to go, really.

I don't know the answer to that question. There are a couple of

closely fought contests but the SNP is doing very well in the polls. The

Tories are very overhyped. Ruth Davidson is doing less well now than

Mrs Thatcher at her lowest point in the 1980s. Right. But they have

done... Are you worried about your seat? You have a Tory challenge

there. I have a Tory challenge and a Lib Dem challenge in my seat. I am

standing on my two years of record, Andrew. And appearances on this

programme. That is what I think will power me over the threshold! Can Mrs

May getaway for the next five weeks with just talking about leadership

for the rest of the campaign, like a broken record? It will be very

interesting to see. She has been pretty successful... Interesting! It

will not be interesting at all. I did not say would be interesting in

itself, but interesting to see. She does seem to have done remarkable

you well at saying very little since she was elected. She said that

Brexit means Brexit lots of times. This seems really to have got

through to people. We were taught, when we were learning politics, that

what you needed to do was have a clear position and say it again and

again, and that when you were completely bored of having said it,

there would be people who were hearing it for the first time and

reacting to it. Someone taught you politics! That was why George Bush

always gave the same speech and journalists felt suicidal, and it is

the view of Lynton Crosby, who is helping with Mrs May's campaign.

Someone on Question Time tonight made fun of the Conservative for

parroting, and he did not sound like a lefty. He said, I bet my wife ?10

that you would use that line in the first five minutes, and that Tory

representative looked sheepish. I think you'll find Tony Blair

parroted quite a. Thank you. It's been a week for raising

awareness of the plight The Labour Party in Wales,

the Labour Party in Scotland, Ukip everywher and English Springer

Spaniels in Cambridge. With three pale, stale,

Blue Nun-dependent men, This Week exists to champion

the representation of That's why we're putting minorities

in this week's spotlight. Tony Blair says he wants to stop

a minority of right-wingers marching We're just allowing ourselves to be

hijacked by what is actually quite a small group of people

with a very strong ideology. But Tim Farron seems suddenly

cool about minorities after years of avoidance,

he's come out and declared gay Despite saying that about women,

Donald Trump is apparently equally Thousands of women who have worked

with and for my father for decades, when he was in the private sector,

are a testament to his belief and solid conviction

in the potential of women. But is minority status

all about oppression Caitlyn Jenner says this week that

she's much happier as a trans woman. I wake up in the morning

and all I have to be is myself, Oscar-winning film-maker,

Dustin Lance Black, successfully campaigned for equal marriage

in the US, but are minority rights And Dustin Lance Black

is with us now. Welcome to the programme, good to

see you. In many areas, minorities have made great strides in the last

few decades. Should they still be higher up the agenda, or has enough

been achieved to start to think of other things now? I think you've hit

on a good point. A lot has been achieved, particularly for LGB T

people. Here, you beat us to the punch in many ways and in the United

States we have been catching up. But I think we have become a bit drunk

on our success in the LGB T community, and become a bit myopic

as a group when we do that. And there is danger in that. The danger

is we become so self-interested we forget the most powerful thing you

can do as a minority, to recognise or interconnectedness with other

minority groups. LGB T a quality did not happen because a bunch of gay

people rose up and fought back. It happened because we understood we

needed to reach out and help our brothers and sisters in racial

minority communities, to work together with the unions, with

workers... It was part of a general fairness agenda. Yes, we helped

others with their needs, understanding there is an

interconnectedness of minority people, and we need each other if we

are going to succeed at things like the ballot box. When you forget

about those connections, when you forget about that Army, you start to

lose. I wrote the show in the United States called when we rise, which

focuses on the coalitions that created the progress that got us

where we are today, because walking up the Supreme Court steps for

marriage equality, I worry that we were so much out just for ourselves

that we made ourselves week. I am just back from France, where there

is an election going on. Is it a cause for concern, or actually a

breakthrough that gay Frenchman, particularly men, are voting for

Marine Le Pen? I think it's a cause for concern. I think that's exactly

the kind of self-centredness that is dangerous. That creates the

divisions that says, hey, we can be defeated because we have forgotten

we are not alone as a minority, as a group of people who are vulnerable

at the ballot box. Because there are other minorities. Quite a remarkable

figure, almost 30% of Hispanics voted for Donald Trump. That means

70% did not. But that is a lot. It is a good fair amount. Not much

fewer than Mitt Romney. Right. But some of that is the make-up of

Latina people in the United States. It is in their traditions to vote

along party lines, and sometimes that is not voting for your best

interests. There are traditions in families where that is what is

taught and understood and we vote along party lines. I don't think

it's beneficial, and I do think that a lot of people at this point regret

those votes. I also think there is right now, and you see it in France,

and I saw it when I was here with Brexit, and certainly with Donald

Trump, not taking sides on any of those, I feel there is a lot of talk

about fear. I just heard Theresa May say this whole election was to

prevent chaos. That is stoking fear. Where is the positive vision? This

is a great nation. I am here because I love this country, it has done

great things, built great things, explore the world, set wonderful

example is when it comes to minority protections, providing health care

for your people. I know there is more to be done but you have set a

great example in so many ways. Where is that constructive vision? That is

a good point. Where is the vision? One of the reasons the Remain

campaign lost was that there was no vision about what sort of Europe it

wanted. Since then, Mrs May has put forward a bit of a vision. It is

rather challenging some of the things you said, it is about a

global Britain, establishing relationships with countries

neglected during the period we have been in the European Union, about

developing free trade, using our freedom to become more competitive.

I think there is quite a lot of vision, actually. I think your

remark might have a general application but I don't think it

particularly applies to what is going on right now. What you see

about Europe, our decision to leave, is the rise of nationalism, which

carries with it a kind of intolerance. In my youth, we

chemically castrated gay men for being homosexual, by the state. What

we did to disabled people was awful, the way people of other colours were

treated was awful. All those things have changed but now you hear people

saying that it is liberalism that has created these terrible things we

have to escape from. Part of the reason Europe came together was to

stop the rise of nationalism. Whether you see it with Marine Le

Pen or with Trump, you are seeing that returning, that we can all be

protected, we can go behind our barriers.

When you hear talk about Tony Blair talking about a majority of British

people who voted in a referendum. He says who is driving the bus. I'm

starting to hear some ideas of what a post-Brexit world might look like

here that might be positive. I'm starting to hear a little bit of

that. I'm not inspired by it yet. I don't imagine a lot of people are.

What I'm hearing mostly is about the fear. The division that is have to

be created to keep us safe. In America there was a campaign waged

about building a war. It seems similar here certainly to the

extreme right now in France where fear is fuelling... There is a lot

of fear in France. The person who topped the first round was the

person who talked about I found that hope. A hopeful moment. I will say.

I don't try to get too political and don't align with one political

party. In that case, I will say, I do hope he wins. I think that will

send a signal that that kind of fear alone won't cut it. That you've got

to have a positive vision for how to create progress, no matter what

party you are in. What brings you to our shores? Well, love first and

foremost! As good a reason as any. Yes. Showed up from an award show to

visit me. And to be with us. He wanted to see you. First and

foremost it's that. It's a beautiful country. I was not born here, but I

do love it and I treasure it and I want it to do well and set a

positive example. I hope there will be leaders here who will start to

promote a vision of progress. I think that could be very exciting.

Whatever reason you are here, we are delighted you are. Thank you very

much. Thank you. That's your lot for tonight, folks,

but not for us because we're off to LouLou's brand new venue in Hull

for Alan Johnson's goodbye I'm told the goody bags on the way

out will contain unsigned copies of this three autobiographies -

they're worth more unsigned - and we all can't wait

for his farewell rendition Nighty nighty, don't

let our man on the left bite. but I was wondering if maybe you

might fancy a drink?