Andrew Neil is joined by Chuka Umunna, Ann Widdecombe, Miranda Green and Suzanne Evans to review the last few days in politics.
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Are you excited about the general election?
Tonight, on This Week's countdown, the clock is ticking down
to yet another big vote, a general election.
But can the pro-Europeans do what some say is impossible
and, even now, rewrite the plan for Brexit?
The general election is not going to reverse us leaving the EU,
but we must support those MPs who are going to stand up
The biggest brain in the universe attempts to solve the election
countdown conundrum with his sonic screwdriver.
There's a serious fault with the space-time continuum.
Could this be the end of politics as we know it?
I'm sorry, there'll be no points for spelling Big Narstie like that.
I think all politicians are the same.
Do you think the general election's going to change anything?
It's going to be the greatest contest yet.
So let's join tonight's host - oh, that's me, Andrew Neil!
Hold it up to the light - not a brain in sight,
We leave you to your own admittedly limited devices for two weeks
The Prime Minister had categorically assured us -
six times - there would be no election before 2020.
So naturally she called one the moment our backs were turned.
Who woulda thunk it - a politician saying one
By the time we got back, old Jezza had morphed into Blighty's
answer to Cesar Chavez - without the oil or the sun -
the Lib Dems were predicting the biggest comeback
since Fleetwood Mac reformed in 1997, and Arron Banks said he'd
be Ukip's candidate in Clacton, just as soon as he can
Meanwhile, Uncle Nige decided against an eighth failed
bid to become an MP - Fox News is so much more
fun and lucrative - and Boy George finally worked out
that editing a newspaper is actually a full-time job.
Pity that didn't dawn on him when he was running the economy.
Here at This Week, we've reached peak apathy,
so much so that most of the team hasn't even bothered to turn up.
That's right - no sad man on a train, no
Instead I'm joined by the replacement bus services
of late-night political chat, our very own coalition of chaos,
Chuka #smoothoperator Umunna and Ann #ChaChaCha Widdecombe.
Welcome to you both. What did you think when you heard the election? I
wouldn't have done it at this time. I thought we should have another
year getting Brexit to be fully accepted, people just realising that
that was the way we were going to go. I feel was always if we had it
too soon it would turn into a second referendum, but nevertheless, she
has called it. I don't think there's any doubt about what the outcome is
going to be. She's going to win it. So I'm getting ready to get behind
them. What did you think, what was your reaction? Two things. I think
most people in Westminster, most parliamentarians on both sides of a
House Fortis nose cone to be a general election there would have
been an announcement before the Easter recess and people thought the
moment have passed, so there were quite stunned, on Tuesday. A second
thought was, well, why is she doing it? This whole thing about there's
disunity in the House of Commons on Brexit and we need unity, I mean,
very rarely as their unity on major issues in the House of Commons. The
purpose of the Commons is not really... That's right, a healthy
democracy, you need that contest of ideas. But really I think what this
is about, she imposing very much as a kind of Margaret Thatcher type
figure and Prime Minister and I think she's terrified of becoming
John Major, and I think she could see with a small majority that she
would become John Major on steroids, in terms of being weak and ending up
with a battle going on internally and her party and I think she's
gambling on a more moderate set of... Not much of a gamble, is it?
Well... Do you get my drift? She's gambling on more moderate, less
Eurosceptic MPs coming in to give her more flexibility, perhaps. And
getting her own mandate is something to do with it, these lines.
So, the lady IS for turning after all.
The PM says she needs a mandate to overcome resistance -
from the Lords to the Lib Dems - to her Brexit strategy.
Obviously, the Tories' stonking lead in the polls played no part
Mrs May hopes for a huge endorsement of what she means by Brexit.
Is this the last hurrah for the Remainers and do they have
any hope of stopping Brexit in its tracks?
Here's Gina Miller with her take of the week.
Brexitland a few years down the track - worse off,
deserted by foreign workers and without the great
Theresa May says she's called this election to ensure there is unity
in Westminster and no turning back on Brexit.
But, as my court victory showed, the referendum didn't hand
the Prime Minister a blank cheque, and nor should this election,
especially as we don't know the terms of the deal yet.
The Government must not be allowed to succeed in killing off
In an ideal world, we'll have time to put together
a progressive alliance, but there simply isn't that time.
That's why I am part of a crowd-funded tactical voting
campaign, hoping to endorse those who are opposed to a hard Brexit.
We are hoping to back a wide slate of candidates who we can trust
will back a meaningful vote at the end of the negotiations.
So many MPs are against Brexit but can't speak up
But now is not the time to keep quiet.
In fact, if the ultimate deal leaves us worse off than we are today,
MPs must feel empowered to reject it.
This election is going to be more important than any in living memory.
It's the one that's going to be talked about in the pubs.
It will be about Brexit, so I urge you, look closely
at what the candidates say on the issue,
and vote for the one who stands on principle
Thanks to Apocalypse Events - The Village.
Welcome to the programme. You said at the end there, talking about
voting for people who do the best for Britain, but that's just code
for wanting to vote for people who. Brexit, isn't it? We're not talking
about stopping Brexit. It's what you want to do. No, it's not. If you
stand back from the emotion of it all, it's pure logic and common
sense that there are all options on the table and there are broadly
three options. One is for a fantastic deal, where everyone gets
what they want. The second is WTO, which the government itself has
accepted is far more, located than they first envisaged, and the third
is looking at if we would be better off remaining. Now anybody who
says... But you want to remain. I was never four remain or leave, it
was about remaining if that was the best option. You calculated to
thwart Brexit. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a democracy. You can
support whatever you want. But why not just admit it, instead of having
these other motives over it? I love that you know what's in my mind,
because it's not. It's quite easy to the! You just talked about a
country, we will be deserted by foreign workers. That was how you
opened your piece. You think we are going to hell in a handbasket. No,
I'm interested in the facts, not the emotions of any of this. Why will we
be deserted by foreign workers? We can already see if you are not going
to have access to free movement there will be a problem. Why will we
be deserted by foreign workers by leaving the EU? Because we won't
have free movement. Deserted means all the people who are already here
will leave, why? The experience I've had since I started my court case,
there's an air around people the UK where they feel... They haven't left
yet. The point is, that that phrase, deserted by foreign workers, Britain
much poorer, it shows what you really think. It's a perfectly
legitimate point of view. But you don't seem to want to be honest
enough to admit that is what you -- your game plan is. I'm honest enough
to say nobody has a future. You said we'll be deserted by foreign
workers. That's a possibility and already we see people feeling they
are not welcome here and that somehow... Who's not welcome here? I
get thousands and thousands of messages and phone calls from people
saying they feel no longer welcome. That's because you've taken a high
profile position. I get that all the time, on things as well. Yellow
Babineaux, I'm not talking about the attacks. Verbal attacks. I'm talking
about people's experiences of how they feel. They feel they are no
longer welcomed here, they feel this is not the country they thought this
was. All right, what do you make of Gina's tactical voting plan? First
of all, to talk about a Brexit that's not really a Brexit is a
complete nonsense. We cannot continue to be governed by EU laws,
remain subject to free movement of labour and have that qualifies for
the title of Brexit. It's one all other. I share Andrew's view, for
goodness' sake, say what you mean, which is that you want to remain.
Let's have that debate. My worry always was this was going to turn
into a second referendum. There are other issues which we ought to be
discussing, but that wasn't the question you ask me. It was about
tactical voting. Yes, will it work? It generally doesn't. You always get
some uptake but it generally doesn't and time I hear there's going to be
tactical voting, there's going to be alliances, people joining in favour
other people, it doesn't actually happen because the campus is so
broad in the end people are not just deciding on Brexit, however
important it is. Would you really vote for Corbyn just because there's
a pro-remain candidate there? You won't. Mr Corbyn is not
overwhelmingly pro-remain, as we can see. That wasn't my point. Should
there not be a referendum on the final deal? I have to say I'm not
the biggest fan of referenda, partly because I think people elect members
of Parliament to give effect to their wishes, and I think we saw
with the referendum and the triggering of Article 50, the
difficulties for members of parliament when they are juxtaposed
against a direct democratic popular vote, so personally I would rather
it was members of Parliament voting on it. So it goes to the Commons,
rather than to a referendum? Yes, because we are elected to do a job.
I think what Gina is doing is very interesting and actually very
helpful in the context of this selection, for people who, you know,
are part of that 48% who want to know where different MPs stand on
things and I think what your project is going to help voters do is be
able to identify whether you've got somebody who is in favour of a soft
Brexit, or... What's a soft Brexit? There are two ways, this is my
subjective analysis of it, I note Ann has a different... I'm asking
your opinion. You can withdraw from the EU in an extreme way... Lots of
soft Brexit? My definition would be we remain a member of the single
market. We would be subject to the European Union... That's right. Hang
on, let me finish, a lot is made at that point but if we want to
continue trading with the European Union the agreement will be be
governed by some other authority and, but also, Andrew, if we want to
continue trading into the European Union leavers and Remainers are both
saying, we're going to have to comply with the standards and rules.
We have to do that to export to America. Last time I looked, there
is no freedom of movement between Britain and America. Let me come
back to Gina Miller. Would you like a referendum when, if and when,
there's a deal done? I think it should be up to the MPs,
because we have a Parliamentary democracy, not a direct democracy.
If we elect MPs, they should be able to vote, to have a meaningful vote
on whatever the deal is. They are. We don't know that. Output a
government stop them? If you look at the government's copybook on using
Article 50, in my case, they tried to bypass Parliament, so how do we
know they won't do that again? The government has said it is
inconceivable for the European Parliament to have a vote but not
the British Parliament. Mrs May has promised there will be a vote on a
hard deal or no deal. That isn't meaningful. A meaningful vote is a
vote on all the options available to MPs. A meaningful vote is, this is
the deal that has been negotiated, and there will be only one deal
negotiated at the end, and do we accept that or not? That is the only
question that can be asked, because there is no other deal. There are
three options, not two. Another way is to give Parliament a vote
earlier, so it can say to the Prime Minister, go back... It can tie the
Prime Minister's and in negotiations. That is all right,
isn't it? I disagree with this notion. Can I come on a different
tack? The interesting thing is the extent to which the general election
will be governed by this issue, or weather, by the end of this
seven-week period... But that is economic competence... The reason we
have Gina Miller tonight, it has been a legitimate criticism from the
Remain side that country voted to leave but the actual shape of
leaving wasn't clear for the people had different views about it. Mrs
Majors herself was a remainder. If she now campaigns for Brexit in this
election campaign, which she says is her position, leaving membership of
the single market, we want to leave the customs union and get out of the
European court, we want an end of freedom of movement, and if she wins
the election on a big mandate, she has got a negotiating mandate to
that, hasn't she? Absolutely. Of course there wouldn't be a problem.
So what is the point of this progressive alliance? Because we are
talking about ensuring there isn't this huge mandate. The options, as
far as we see it, is that you have... You look back to what was
said in 1983, an elected majority is almost an elected dictatorship and
that is a game we are saying... But it has been speculated that it would
be too big. But you would accept, because she will have to spell out
what her negotiating position is,... All of the manifestos will. If she
gets a mandate, that visit, she has got the mandate to negotiate on that
basis. She does, but no Prime Minister is above the law and if, in
18 months, five years, whenever it is that the Prime Minister comes
back with the negotiated and doesn't give Parliament a full, meaningful
vote, then we may have to seek the advice of the courts on whether she
is allowed to do that. Back to the courts. Nobody is above the law. I
understand that but, if you don't think ring or interfering with the
democratic process into a democratic copy? When is it my hobby and when
am I a rich woman? I have a democratic -- I have significant day
jobs. This isn't a hobby. I have done this for nearly a decade and is
it OK that, if I am rich because I have owned my own money, that I
might use its...? I am wondering if it is your hobby. Absolutely not.
When you did the court case at the beginning, you said you just wanted
the court case to rule on whether the Commons at a vote. It was about
democracy. But now you are talking about 80 metric -- Democratic
Alliance. It is still about democracy. It has given you a new
purpose in life. It's the same purpose, that everybody has the duty
to stand up they believe in. Gina Miller, thank you. I think we will
see you again. Now, it's late - stand down
as a Labour MP late - but fear not, because waiting
in the wings is grime I listen to his choonz
every day and ting. He's here putting apathy
in our Spotlight, innit. So get on dem social
media vibes, fam. Get tweet twerking, because we've
had enough snap for one week. Now, it's generally accepted that
comrade Corbyn is facing the electoral uphill struggle
of a lifetime. One recent poll puts Labour 24
points behind the Tories. But Jezza is no
stranger to long odds. After all, nobody ever thought
he'd be Labour leader. They are the peak of
political science - Here's Gyles Brandreth with his
round-up of the political week. Westminster has been
rocked to the core. News of a shock contest,
a battle so exciting, it has torn Who will be chosen
as the new Doctor Who? I have just chaired a meeting
of the Cabinet where we agreed that the government should call
a general election to be It will be a choice between strong
and stable leadership in the national interest,
with me as your Prime Minister, or weak and unstable
coalition government, led by Jeremy Corbyn,
propped up by the Liberal Democrats, who want to reopen the divisions
of the referendum, I can jump forward to
when the whole thing is over. I knew I shouldn't have let Michael
loose with the sonic screwdriver. No one saw the PM's move coming,
least of all the Labour Party. I welcome the opportunity for us
to put the case to the people of Britain, to stand up against this
government and its failed economic agenda, which has left our NHS
and problems, which has left our schools are underfunded,
which has left some We want to put a case out
there for the people of Britain of a society
that cares for all. With Labour trailing 20%
in the polls, Jeremy Corbyn has Not least with convincing
some of his own party. The rest of the opposition sounded
more up for the fight. It's an opportunity for the people
of this country to change the direction of this country,
to decide that they do not they want to keep Britain
in the single market and indeed it's an opportunity for us
to have a decent strong opposition in this country
that we desperately need. Things happen very
quickly and there could We are already polling
more highly than we were at the time
of the 2015 general election. Clearly she sees the opportunity,
given the disarray in the Labour Party,
to crush all opposition to her, to get rid of people who disagree
with her, and to give herself a free hand to take
the country in the increasingly right-wing direction
she wants to take it in. I relish the prospect of getting out
there, standing up for Scotland's interests and values,
standing up for Scotland's voice Cool, calculating, stripped
of all emotion, hell-bent Britain is leaving
the European Union, I have set out the divisions
that have become They can and will be used
against us, weakening our hand in the negotiations to come
and we must not let that happen. And that's why it's the right
and responsible thing for all of us here today to vote
for a general election. The Commons passed the PM's
Bill resoundingly. With opposition like that, Mrs May
really does need a mandate to Fighting an election was one job too
many for George Osborne. But don't worry, Osborne fans,
the former Chancellor and Tory election strategist,
will, he promises, be putting his oar in from the comfort
of the London Evening Standard. Provided he remembers those copy
deadlines, of course. Our country has some
big decisions to make now about the kind of Britain
we want to be, and those values of openness, tolerance,
diversity, enterprise, They are ones I fought
for in government as Chancellor, fought for in Parliament as the MP
for Tatton and now I'm going to fight for them in that editor's
chair at the Evening Standard. The PM, the apparently
quiet vicar's daughter, has shown her hand and it turns out
to be an iron fist in a No opportunity will be given
to doubters, no quarter given to the opposition, and definitely
no silly TV debates. If the Prime Minister
is so confident that her hard Brexit, pro-austerity,
anti-immigration case is right, then she should debate it
with opposition leaders We look forward to the straight
fight between the SNP and Can the Prime Minister tell
the people why she's running scared of a televised debate
with Nicola Sturgeon? DALEK: Election debate,
election debate. Thank very much to The Who Shop
in Upton Park, East London, who loaned Gyles their Tardis -
and then set their Dalek on him. With me now is the lovely Miranda
Green. And Suzanne Evans. Am I not lovely as well? It was meant to
cover you both. Chuka Umunna, why is your party 20 points behind in the
polls? Well, polls go up and down. Yours just go down. The ultimate one
that will matter is how voters cast their votes on the 8th of June. Why
are you 20 points behind? We have had a difficult two years, but what
you will see the Labour Party doing now, over the next few weeks, is
coming together and putting forward as a team and offered to the
country. Some of your MPs have said they are standing down. That isn't
coming together. That isn't unusual at elections. Ann stood down at
election. After 23 years! Some of them have been there that long.
However long people have been in, we are sad to lose them. But that's
politics. You don't do this job for ever. ... Would Jeremy Corbyn make a
good Prime Minister? There is a lot of talk about how difficult this
question is for MPs. My answer is simple. I am a Labour MP. It isn't
just about... I know you are, I didn't ask you that. Let me finish
my sentence. Answer the question! Would he make a good Prime Minister?
Reed I want a Labour team and its captain to get into government and I
will always think that the team and the captain will be better than a
Tory one. That is why I was elected in Streatham. Teams spin doctors
were working on that answer. Did this go wrong -- could this go wrong
for Theresa May? There are always risks in a general election but the
outcome of this one is as certain as any outcome can ever be in a
political context. She starts miles ahead in the polls. I'm sorry,
Chuka, but Jeremy Corbyn cannot be seen as a realistic PM. I didn't ask
you that, because I knew what the answer would be. She is starting
with all the advantages. She would need to throw something away for
anything to really wrong. Yet have the department of honesty. If the
real reason she has called the election? I think she wants to
secure a larger majority because I think there will be tough
negotiation ahead. And I think she wants to secure a proper majority,
and not to be weakened by always been on a knife edge in Parliament.
Nothing wrong with that. That was true a month ago, six weeks ago.
Yes, and her view was that she wasn't going to have an election.
She has obviously reflected on it but I don't go for all this, and it
doesn't matter which party the politician is, this business of, oh,
it's a U-turn. No, it's a mature reflection which has resulted in a
different decision. No, it looks and walks like a U-turn! It's a U-turn!
It's the mother of all U-turns! But that is a pejorative way of saying
that somebody has just changed their mind. The lady isn't for turning,
she can't say that now. This is more John Major than Mrs Thatcher. What
macro this is your line? No, I think it is why doing it. With a Lib Dem
recovery, what would it look like? It can't get worse than eight seats.
2016 was being smashed down onto the floor, so they'll do much better.
There is a sort of mood of wanting to take an opportunity to recover to
a respectable showing in the Commons and also to kind of capitalise on
Labour's weakness, because there are some Labour voters who are willing
to vote Lib Dems, but they do have to be able to take this opportunity
and it's not dangerous free, but they will improve their showing. And
also of course the May local elections might help the Lib Dems,
because if they do quite well in the local elections it will give them
momentum. Let me bring in Suzanne. This could be the beginning of the
four Ukip, couldn't it? It could be the beginning of new beginning as
well. We can't do much worse than having non-, which is the position
at the moment. Douglas Carswell, probably the first and the last MP
of your party? And he could probably not be, let's see what happens. You
are not confident, are you? We're not as confident as we were I don't
think before the 2015 general election, which was a massive
disappointment to us. 4 million votes, one member of Parliament, a
brilliant argument if ever there was one for voting reform. For
concentrating your resources on this leads you can win. We are having
those discussions at the moment, where are target seats are going to
be. What's your disagreement with Theresa May? What's Ukip about this
time? In terms of Theresa May, let's say she's talking very much in terms
of her Brexit vision, but she's not being very clear as well on some
other issues and I'm very interested to see what the Tory manifesto is
going to be. Her failure... Now you see the problems I have. Indeed, I
do. Question is what part of Theresa May's Brexit strategy do you
disagree with? Non-, at the moment. So what's the point? The mission she
set out is all very well. Ukip is much more than Brexit. It really is.
That's obviously what we've been seen... Grammar schools. The
government is doing that. Ukip is not... I'm quite enjoying this
coming you tell me the question! It's great! I'm not convinced, Ann,
that Theresa May is actually going to deliver the Brexit that the
British people want. How does standing against her promoter
Brexit? Are you suggesting we don't stand? We are political party. It's
what we do. Let me come back to appoint you made at the head of the
programme to put Ann, you and I both remember the Ted Heath election of
1974. He called it on who runs the country. That was the issue. Within
a week, that had ceased to be the issue. Many other things had become
the issue. There's a chance in that way it kind of runs away. You call
an election on one issue and people say, that's not what I want to talk
about, we want to talk about living standards, we want to talk about the
difficulties of good schools, waiting lists in the NHS, that's got
to be a risk for her. I have no doubt at all that all those types of
issues will, and will be debated. They are bound to, in the course of
a general election. In as far as one can never make predictions and
politics, it is very unlikely that Brexit will be overtaken, in the
sense that people will suddenly forget about it and start
concentrating on other things. I do remember the Tettey selection and he
said, who rules? That was the question he put. He said, who rules?
And people said, nobody. The result was indeterminate. Tim Farron
reckons that the Remain and Leave thing is going to produce a lot for
him, but I look in my own area, slightly different, I'm an anti-hard
Brexit MP and memories are short and a lot of take the NHS Andrew touched
on, a lot of what's happening to the NHS now was instigated by Liberal
Democrats with Conservatives in government and what he's bargaining
on is that areas that have been deeply affected by that, like my
own, will forget the cuts and forget the responsibility that the Liberal
Democrats pair for that now and say, OK, because he's Remain, therefore
I'm going to forget all that and support him. I think by the end of
this, I'm not sure that's going to happen. By the end of the thing, it
comes down to leadership and economy. It's an interesting point,
there are potential huge pitfalls for all of the main parties here.
Labour's pitfalls are obvious, it's to do with the leadership deficit
and the Corbyn factor. The Lib Dems do have this issue of how they deal
with the coalition years and they will make a big mistake if they try
and fight the last war. Already, some of the senior people who are
standing again have made the mistake in the last 24 hours of trying to
argue with the electorate about why they got such a kicking in 2015.
They can't do that. They need to move on. There's plenty to talk
about, about whether you want essentially an over dominant
Conservative Party without in effective opposition, and there they
can make a case that there's a contribution to make when the Labour
Party is in disarray. That will be their argument. If May is going into
this thinking it's a Brexit election, it might be what people
are focused on now but we've also triggered optical 50. We are on the
way out. I actually think there will be other issues that come to the
fore and take over from that quickly. NHS is one of them, on
which this Tory government has failed abysmally. The Health
Secretary is one of the most unpopular there's ever been, not
just... They're always unpopular. This was -- this one is particularly
unpopular. I wonder if the Westminster village doesn't
overestimate the whole Remain and Leave feeling in the country. It
just is not, in people's everyday lives in my area, Remain and Leave
and Brexit is important for a lot of people, a strong Remain
constituency. The health and education cuts is more immediate.
The point I made earlier which I think you make misunderstood, was
straightforward. Just because the Labour candidate is for Remain, why
would that make you vote for Cobilas Prime Minister? That was the point I
was trying to make earlier, when we had Gina here. I don't think
therefore that Brexit will be the sole determining factor. I think
competence, I think record, I think all those things will count and will
count heavily. And of course the Prime Minister wants to make it
about leadership, as she said several times. I wonder why. Let me
come back to you, Chuka. A lot of people on your side are realistic
they think if there's chance of them into power it will have to beat with
an alliance, there will not be an overall majority. It will have to be
an alliance. Is there any hope of a Progressive Alliance? It never seems
to take off in Britain? I think the problem is if you look on the left
and there's been this talk of Liberal Democrats, Greensand Labour,
the ASCII is always full Labour to stand down in favour of Green and
Lib Dem candidates. But the Greens stood out of the way in Richmond to
give the Lib Dems a clear run. The national and local did that, there
was a dispute, wasn't there? I spoke to Caroline Lucas today. She said
clearly, she wants to do that, but it has to be the decision of the
local party. I think in the end, some people are very squiffy about
this but in the end there's an issue in the sense that if there's to be
any kind of alliance of coalition, that's for the voters to determine.
It's not a backroom deal. This is all a disaster, Lynton Crosby's
brilliant slogan, which they are to repeat ad nauseam, is this strong
Tory leadership versus coalition of chaos. There is no prospect of a
coalition with Corbyn, nobody would touch him with a barge pole. Nicola
Sturgeon... That's right, it's difficult to talk about tactical
voting without playing into the hands of Lynton Crosby, so it makes
it very difficult even on the ground. I think there will be some
of it on the ground this time. It's clear Mrs May will seek a new
mandate, not just for Brexit. There's a lot of things she didn't
like in the 2015 manifesto. There's going to be new things, old promises
junked, new ones put in. What is the one thing above all you would like
to see that's new in the Tory manifesto? I want to see a promise
on immigration that is deliverable. And where the mechanisms will be
spelt out. Why do you have faith in Mrs May to deliver that, given her
appalling record of Home Secretary? She was also heavily restricted
during that time by EU law. She didn't control non-EU immigration.
Which is also subject to EU law and refugees. Wakey wakey!
LAUGHTER 26 minutes past 12! Servers are
trying to get a cat nap. We'll move on before we all fall asleep.
Old Choo Choo was so overwhelmed by the prospect of another election
that he bought a ticket on the Hindu Express
Sad man on the left Alan Johnson is even more disenchanted
He's said he's not playing any more and is off to write his memoirs.
That's why we're putting apathy in this week's spotlight.
The Prime Minister's called yet another national vote.
Oh, for gods sake, I can't honestly...
There's too much politics going on at the moment.
So what style of campaigning, if any, can win the electorate over?
I believe in campaigns where politicians actually get out
# I bore myself in broad daylight, 'cause I'm bored #
Or is the cure for apathy to topple the political
It's the establishment versus the people.
It's our historic duty to make sure the people prevail.
Even some of them have had enough of the whole thing.
Grime artist Big Narstie encouraged young people to take part in last
year's EU referendum, but does he still think voting's
worthwhile, or should we smash the system to bits?
Welcome. Do you think people get bored with voting so often? 100%,
man. If you look at the last two years, it still the same. People are
still sleeping in city centres, in bags for life, so with all the
schemes and policies that have happened, MPs saying they will do
this or that, it still seems the poor get poorer, the rich stay the
same and pay higher tax and instead of building council flats, there's
always a new need for a Tesco or Morrisons or Tesco local. So you're
saying it doesn't make any difference? Not at all. What do you
say to that, Chuka I think it does make a difference and Big Narstie is
from my neck of the woods, Lambeth. Of the things we thought, we don't
explain enough the tangible things that happen at the end of your road
that have been the result of a political decision, so I look at my
area, nine sure start children's centres, our secondary school
buildings are hell of a lot better than when you and I went to school,
and our primary school buildings, much better than when we went to
school, and that was as a result of political decisions. New health
centres that were built. All right. People don't associate that with a
political decision. You've got better schools, more sure start
eschew That is supposed to be standard. I
agree. We didn't have it before though. This is what is sick about
the situation. So the politicians 20 years before you, when everybody had
their power before and they give a speech about how they care for the
community, it sounds nice... The thing with elections coming yet, the
focus is on the election instead of the people, because the truth is
that they are real things that we need, they don't look fancy, and to
the establishment, it's really uncomfortable. For more politicians
to say, do you know what? There is that 20 square thousand feet left in
the city centre. We're not going to build a new JD sports. I think we
should build someone bed flats, but that isn't cool to say because it
will ruin your campaign. That is what gets said all the time. The
long-term effect is, because you said just to get through and didn't
do it, the next person said it and didn't do it, so now we are here,
and the man is saying, politicians, you lot are dead food. What is dead
food? Floppy disks, minidisks. In the sense of, when you leave this
place right now and the lights go off and you go about your business,
you've got a good job and you are OK. Let's talk about the people who
have to bank ?88 every two weeks and being told, because of what they
have in their house, they need to pay tax on that. Even prime
ministers, if you want to run this country, we need to go back to
basics. It doesn't matter you are poor or rich. You need to have the
mind state to think for more than just one. But the problem is now,
like most places in the world, the poor out to the rich. There are more
poor people than rich people. One minute, this one is going to mash
your mind. Imagine this. It's not your fault that you come from a
loving home with two parents who have worked hard to give you a
better future and provide some stability for you, but let's talk
about the kids who haven't. How can a person who has had a perfect life,
who has grew up in a perfect society, you've never had an
electric meter in your life, you've never sat in a passageway looking at
a baby thinking, how am I going to... Who are you talking to? I
thought you were talking to Ann. But the group will I bring her in? But
like everybody to have a word. And I'd like everybody to have a woeful
Ken Livingstone, before he became an expert on Hitler, used to say, if
voting mattered, they would abolish it. They had a what? If voting
mattered, they would abolish it. I always said, if you had compulsory
voting and you had a box saying, none of the above, that would
probably win. So you agree? No. I am with Chuka. Just about everything
that happens is governed by political decisions, from basic
things like how often the rubbish is collected, all the way through to
laws on Brexit. All of these things are actually the product of
political decisions and politically understanding or misunderstanding,
and Chuka is right, we don't often explain that. We don't often say,
all of these things changed across somebody took that on board I'm
going to give you the final word. All I'm going to say is this not my
thing is this. The problem with our country, too many people who have
not come from the poor way of life, let's just talk about real life...
We don't have much time. Real life is this. Working over 16 hours, tax
is being taken out and it's hard enough for a normal person to afford
to live in London so you are working 16 hours and you can't afford, and
you're still on benefits, but you have a posh person telling you about
more benefit cuts and cutting money from disabled kids. We are running
over. Real stuff. What good to see you got keep it real. That is your
lot for tonight, but not for us. We're giving Loulou's the swerve
tonight, because we're off to the Bristol mansion
of Ukip's Arron Banks, where he's laid out his maps
of the south-east of England, and together we will pour over them
to help him identify exactly He probably needs to crack
that conundrum before And we will help because, for us,
public service is a 24/7 duty. Nighty night, don't
let the voters bite. I know nothing about Clapton at all.
I've got a reputation for saying it as it is. My plan is to get Clacton,
to see what the issues are and then I'll campaign. I'm certainly going
to buy a house there if I'm elected. I think, from the point of view of
being the MP for Clacton, I think I would be very effective. When I say
I'm going to do something, I do it. And I will be aiming to win. I
understand -- I'm going to stand, come hell or high water.
Andrew Neil is joined by Chuka Umunna, Ann Widdecombe, Miranda Green and Suzanne Evans to review the last few days in politics.
Featuring a film from Gyles Brandreth, looking back over the last few days since the general election was announced.
The studio guests are Gina Miller, who talks about a progressive alliance and tactical voting to challenge hard Brexit, and rapper Big Narstie, who looks at apathy in the spotlight section.