20/04/2017 This Week

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Andrew Neil is joined by Chuka Umunna, Ann Widdecombe, Miranda Green and Suzanne Evans to review the last few days in politics.

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Are you excited about the general election?


Tonight, on This Week's countdown, the clock is ticking down


to yet another big vote, a general election.


But can the pro-Europeans do what some say is impossible


and, even now, rewrite the plan for Brexit?


The general election is not going to reverse us leaving the EU,


but we must support those MPs who are going to stand up


The biggest brain in the universe attempts to solve the election


countdown conundrum with his sonic screwdriver.


There's a serious fault with the space-time continuum.


Could this be the end of politics as we know it?


I'm sorry, there'll be no points for spelling Big Narstie like that.


I think all politicians are the same.


Do you think the general election's going to change anything?


It's going to be the greatest contest yet.


So let's join tonight's host - oh, that's me, Andrew Neil!


Hold it up to the light - not a brain in sight,


We leave you to your own admittedly limited devices for two weeks


The Prime Minister had categorically assured us -


six times - there would be no election before 2020.


So naturally she called one the moment our backs were turned.


Who woulda thunk it - a politician saying one


By the time we got back, old Jezza had morphed into Blighty's


answer to Cesar Chavez - without the oil or the sun -


the Lib Dems were predicting the biggest comeback


since Fleetwood Mac reformed in 1997, and Arron Banks said he'd


be Ukip's candidate in Clacton, just as soon as he can


Meanwhile, Uncle Nige decided against an eighth failed


bid to become an MP - Fox News is so much more


fun and lucrative - and Boy George finally worked out


that editing a newspaper is actually a full-time job.


Pity that didn't dawn on him when he was running the economy.


Here at This Week, we've reached peak apathy,


so much so that most of the team hasn't even bothered to turn up.


That's right - no sad man on a train, no


Instead I'm joined by the replacement bus services


of late-night political chat, our very own coalition of chaos,


Chuka #smoothoperator Umunna and Ann #ChaChaCha Widdecombe.


Welcome to you both. What did you think when you heard the election? I


wouldn't have done it at this time. I thought we should have another


year getting Brexit to be fully accepted, people just realising that


that was the way we were going to go. I feel was always if we had it


too soon it would turn into a second referendum, but nevertheless, she


has called it. I don't think there's any doubt about what the outcome is


going to be. She's going to win it. So I'm getting ready to get behind


them. What did you think, what was your reaction? Two things. I think


most people in Westminster, most parliamentarians on both sides of a


House Fortis nose cone to be a general election there would have


been an announcement before the Easter recess and people thought the


moment have passed, so there were quite stunned, on Tuesday. A second


thought was, well, why is she doing it? This whole thing about there's


disunity in the House of Commons on Brexit and we need unity, I mean,


very rarely as their unity on major issues in the House of Commons. The


purpose of the Commons is not really... That's right, a healthy


democracy, you need that contest of ideas. But really I think what this


is about, she imposing very much as a kind of Margaret Thatcher type


figure and Prime Minister and I think she's terrified of becoming


John Major, and I think she could see with a small majority that she


would become John Major on steroids, in terms of being weak and ending up


with a battle going on internally and her party and I think she's


gambling on a more moderate set of... Not much of a gamble, is it?


Well... Do you get my drift? She's gambling on more moderate, less


Eurosceptic MPs coming in to give her more flexibility, perhaps. And


getting her own mandate is something to do with it, these lines.


So, the lady IS for turning after all.


The PM says she needs a mandate to overcome resistance -


from the Lords to the Lib Dems - to her Brexit strategy.


Obviously, the Tories' stonking lead in the polls played no part


Mrs May hopes for a huge endorsement of what she means by Brexit.


Is this the last hurrah for the Remainers and do they have


any hope of stopping Brexit in its tracks?


Here's Gina Miller with her take of the week.


Brexitland a few years down the track - worse off,


deserted by foreign workers and without the great


Theresa May says she's called this election to ensure there is unity


in Westminster and no turning back on Brexit.


But, as my court victory showed, the referendum didn't hand


the Prime Minister a blank cheque, and nor should this election,


especially as we don't know the terms of the deal yet.


The Government must not be allowed to succeed in killing off


In an ideal world, we'll have time to put together


a progressive alliance, but there simply isn't that time.


That's why I am part of a crowd-funded tactical voting


campaign, hoping to endorse those who are opposed to a hard Brexit.


We are hoping to back a wide slate of candidates who we can trust


will back a meaningful vote at the end of the negotiations.


So many MPs are against Brexit but can't speak up


But now is not the time to keep quiet.


In fact, if the ultimate deal leaves us worse off than we are today,


MPs must feel empowered to reject it.


This election is going to be more important than any in living memory.


It's the one that's going to be talked about in the pubs.


It will be about Brexit, so I urge you, look closely


at what the candidates say on the issue,


and vote for the one who stands on principle


Thanks to Apocalypse Events - The Village.


Welcome to the programme. You said at the end there, talking about


voting for people who do the best for Britain, but that's just code


for wanting to vote for people who. Brexit, isn't it? We're not talking


about stopping Brexit. It's what you want to do. No, it's not. If you


stand back from the emotion of it all, it's pure logic and common


sense that there are all options on the table and there are broadly


three options. One is for a fantastic deal, where everyone gets


what they want. The second is WTO, which the government itself has


accepted is far more, located than they first envisaged, and the third


is looking at if we would be better off remaining. Now anybody who


says... But you want to remain. I was never four remain or leave, it


was about remaining if that was the best option. You calculated to


thwart Brexit. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a democracy. You can


support whatever you want. But why not just admit it, instead of having


these other motives over it? I love that you know what's in my mind,


because it's not. It's quite easy to the! You just talked about a


country, we will be deserted by foreign workers. That was how you


opened your piece. You think we are going to hell in a handbasket. No,


I'm interested in the facts, not the emotions of any of this. Why will we


be deserted by foreign workers? We can already see if you are not going


to have access to free movement there will be a problem. Why will we


be deserted by foreign workers by leaving the EU? Because we won't


have free movement. Deserted means all the people who are already here


will leave, why? The experience I've had since I started my court case,


there's an air around people the UK where they feel... They haven't left


yet. The point is, that that phrase, deserted by foreign workers, Britain


much poorer, it shows what you really think. It's a perfectly


legitimate point of view. But you don't seem to want to be honest


enough to admit that is what you -- your game plan is. I'm honest enough


to say nobody has a future. You said we'll be deserted by foreign


workers. That's a possibility and already we see people feeling they


are not welcome here and that somehow... Who's not welcome here? I


get thousands and thousands of messages and phone calls from people


saying they feel no longer welcome. That's because you've taken a high


profile position. I get that all the time, on things as well. Yellow


Babineaux, I'm not talking about the attacks. Verbal attacks. I'm talking


about people's experiences of how they feel. They feel they are no


longer welcomed here, they feel this is not the country they thought this


was. All right, what do you make of Gina's tactical voting plan? First


of all, to talk about a Brexit that's not really a Brexit is a


complete nonsense. We cannot continue to be governed by EU laws,


remain subject to free movement of labour and have that qualifies for


the title of Brexit. It's one all other. I share Andrew's view, for


goodness' sake, say what you mean, which is that you want to remain.


Let's have that debate. My worry always was this was going to turn


into a second referendum. There are other issues which we ought to be


discussing, but that wasn't the question you ask me. It was about


tactical voting. Yes, will it work? It generally doesn't. You always get


some uptake but it generally doesn't and time I hear there's going to be


tactical voting, there's going to be alliances, people joining in favour


other people, it doesn't actually happen because the campus is so


broad in the end people are not just deciding on Brexit, however


important it is. Would you really vote for Corbyn just because there's


a pro-remain candidate there? You won't. Mr Corbyn is not


overwhelmingly pro-remain, as we can see. That wasn't my point. Should


there not be a referendum on the final deal? I have to say I'm not


the biggest fan of referenda, partly because I think people elect members


of Parliament to give effect to their wishes, and I think we saw


with the referendum and the triggering of Article 50, the


difficulties for members of parliament when they are juxtaposed


against a direct democratic popular vote, so personally I would rather


it was members of Parliament voting on it. So it goes to the Commons,


rather than to a referendum? Yes, because we are elected to do a job.


I think what Gina is doing is very interesting and actually very


helpful in the context of this selection, for people who, you know,


are part of that 48% who want to know where different MPs stand on


things and I think what your project is going to help voters do is be


able to identify whether you've got somebody who is in favour of a soft


Brexit, or... What's a soft Brexit? There are two ways, this is my


subjective analysis of it, I note Ann has a different... I'm asking


your opinion. You can withdraw from the EU in an extreme way... Lots of


soft Brexit? My definition would be we remain a member of the single


market. We would be subject to the European Union... That's right. Hang


on, let me finish, a lot is made at that point but if we want to


continue trading with the European Union the agreement will be be


governed by some other authority and, but also, Andrew, if we want to


continue trading into the European Union leavers and Remainers are both


saying, we're going to have to comply with the standards and rules.


We have to do that to export to America. Last time I looked, there


is no freedom of movement between Britain and America. Let me come


back to Gina Miller. Would you like a referendum when, if and when,


there's a deal done? I think it should be up to the MPs,


because we have a Parliamentary democracy, not a direct democracy.


If we elect MPs, they should be able to vote, to have a meaningful vote


on whatever the deal is. They are. We don't know that. Output a


government stop them? If you look at the government's copybook on using


Article 50, in my case, they tried to bypass Parliament, so how do we


know they won't do that again? The government has said it is


inconceivable for the European Parliament to have a vote but not


the British Parliament. Mrs May has promised there will be a vote on a


hard deal or no deal. That isn't meaningful. A meaningful vote is a


vote on all the options available to MPs. A meaningful vote is, this is


the deal that has been negotiated, and there will be only one deal


negotiated at the end, and do we accept that or not? That is the only


question that can be asked, because there is no other deal. There are


three options, not two. Another way is to give Parliament a vote


earlier, so it can say to the Prime Minister, go back... It can tie the


Prime Minister's and in negotiations. That is all right,


isn't it? I disagree with this notion. Can I come on a different


tack? The interesting thing is the extent to which the general election


will be governed by this issue, or weather, by the end of this


seven-week period... But that is economic competence... The reason we


have Gina Miller tonight, it has been a legitimate criticism from the


Remain side that country voted to leave but the actual shape of


leaving wasn't clear for the people had different views about it. Mrs


Majors herself was a remainder. If she now campaigns for Brexit in this


election campaign, which she says is her position, leaving membership of


the single market, we want to leave the customs union and get out of the


European court, we want an end of freedom of movement, and if she wins


the election on a big mandate, she has got a negotiating mandate to


that, hasn't she? Absolutely. Of course there wouldn't be a problem.


So what is the point of this progressive alliance? Because we are


talking about ensuring there isn't this huge mandate. The options, as


far as we see it, is that you have... You look back to what was


said in 1983, an elected majority is almost an elected dictatorship and


that is a game we are saying... But it has been speculated that it would


be too big. But you would accept, because she will have to spell out


what her negotiating position is,... All of the manifestos will. If she


gets a mandate, that visit, she has got the mandate to negotiate on that


basis. She does, but no Prime Minister is above the law and if, in


18 months, five years, whenever it is that the Prime Minister comes


back with the negotiated and doesn't give Parliament a full, meaningful


vote, then we may have to seek the advice of the courts on whether she


is allowed to do that. Back to the courts. Nobody is above the law. I


understand that but, if you don't think ring or interfering with the


democratic process into a democratic copy? When is it my hobby and when


am I a rich woman? I have a democratic -- I have significant day


jobs. This isn't a hobby. I have done this for nearly a decade and is


it OK that, if I am rich because I have owned my own money, that I


might use its...? I am wondering if it is your hobby. Absolutely not.


When you did the court case at the beginning, you said you just wanted


the court case to rule on whether the Commons at a vote. It was about


democracy. But now you are talking about 80 metric -- Democratic


Alliance. It is still about democracy. It has given you a new


purpose in life. It's the same purpose, that everybody has the duty


to stand up they believe in. Gina Miller, thank you. I think we will


see you again. Now, it's late - stand down


as a Labour MP late - but fear not, because waiting


in the wings is grime I listen to his choonz


every day and ting. He's here putting apathy


in our Spotlight, innit. So get on dem social


media vibes, fam. Get tweet twerking, because we've


had enough snap for one week. Now, it's generally accepted that


comrade Corbyn is facing the electoral uphill struggle


of a lifetime. One recent poll puts Labour 24


points behind the Tories. But Jezza is no


stranger to long odds. After all, nobody ever thought


he'd be Labour leader. They are the peak of


political science - Here's Gyles Brandreth with his


round-up of the political week. Westminster has been


rocked to the core. News of a shock contest,


a battle so exciting, it has torn Who will be chosen


as the new Doctor Who? I have just chaired a meeting


of the Cabinet where we agreed that the government should call


a general election to be It will be a choice between strong


and stable leadership in the national interest,


with me as your Prime Minister, or weak and unstable


coalition government, led by Jeremy Corbyn,


propped up by the Liberal Democrats, who want to reopen the divisions


of the referendum, I can jump forward to


when the whole thing is over. I knew I shouldn't have let Michael


loose with the sonic screwdriver. No one saw the PM's move coming,


least of all the Labour Party. I welcome the opportunity for us


to put the case to the people of Britain, to stand up against this


government and its failed economic agenda, which has left our NHS


and problems, which has left our schools are underfunded,


which has left some We want to put a case out


there for the people of Britain of a society


that cares for all. With Labour trailing 20%


in the polls, Jeremy Corbyn has Not least with convincing


some of his own party. The rest of the opposition sounded


more up for the fight. It's an opportunity for the people


of this country to change the direction of this country,


to decide that they do not they want to keep Britain


in the single market and indeed it's an opportunity for us


to have a decent strong opposition in this country


that we desperately need. Things happen very


quickly and there could We are already polling


more highly than we were at the time


of the 2015 general election. Clearly she sees the opportunity,


given the disarray in the Labour Party,


to crush all opposition to her, to get rid of people who disagree


with her, and to give herself a free hand to take


the country in the increasingly right-wing direction


she wants to take it in. I relish the prospect of getting out


there, standing up for Scotland's interests and values,


standing up for Scotland's voice Cool, calculating, stripped


of all emotion, hell-bent Britain is leaving


the European Union, I have set out the divisions


that have become They can and will be used


against us, weakening our hand in the negotiations to come


and we must not let that happen. And that's why it's the right


and responsible thing for all of us here today to vote


for a general election. The Commons passed the PM's


Bill resoundingly. With opposition like that, Mrs May


really does need a mandate to Fighting an election was one job too


many for George Osborne. But don't worry, Osborne fans,


the former Chancellor and Tory election strategist,


will, he promises, be putting his oar in from the comfort


of the London Evening Standard. Provided he remembers those copy


deadlines, of course. Our country has some


big decisions to make now about the kind of Britain


we want to be, and those values of openness, tolerance,


diversity, enterprise, They are ones I fought


for in government as Chancellor, fought for in Parliament as the MP


for Tatton and now I'm going to fight for them in that editor's


chair at the Evening Standard. The PM, the apparently


quiet vicar's daughter, has shown her hand and it turns out


to be an iron fist in a No opportunity will be given


to doubters, no quarter given to the opposition, and definitely


no silly TV debates. If the Prime Minister


is so confident that her hard Brexit, pro-austerity,


anti-immigration case is right, then she should debate it


with opposition leaders We look forward to the straight


fight between the SNP and Can the Prime Minister tell


the people why she's running scared of a televised debate


with Nicola Sturgeon? DALEK: Election debate,


election debate. Thank very much to The Who Shop


in Upton Park, East London, who loaned Gyles their Tardis -


and then set their Dalek on him. With me now is the lovely Miranda


Green. And Suzanne Evans. Am I not lovely as well? It was meant to


cover you both. Chuka Umunna, why is your party 20 points behind in the


polls? Well, polls go up and down. Yours just go down. The ultimate one


that will matter is how voters cast their votes on the 8th of June. Why


are you 20 points behind? We have had a difficult two years, but what


you will see the Labour Party doing now, over the next few weeks, is


coming together and putting forward as a team and offered to the


country. Some of your MPs have said they are standing down. That isn't


coming together. That isn't unusual at elections. Ann stood down at


election. After 23 years! Some of them have been there that long.


However long people have been in, we are sad to lose them. But that's


politics. You don't do this job for ever. ... Would Jeremy Corbyn make a


good Prime Minister? There is a lot of talk about how difficult this


question is for MPs. My answer is simple. I am a Labour MP. It isn't


just about... I know you are, I didn't ask you that. Let me finish


my sentence. Answer the question! Would he make a good Prime Minister?


Reed I want a Labour team and its captain to get into government and I


will always think that the team and the captain will be better than a


Tory one. That is why I was elected in Streatham. Teams spin doctors


were working on that answer. Did this go wrong -- could this go wrong


for Theresa May? There are always risks in a general election but the


outcome of this one is as certain as any outcome can ever be in a


political context. She starts miles ahead in the polls. I'm sorry,


Chuka, but Jeremy Corbyn cannot be seen as a realistic PM. I didn't ask


you that, because I knew what the answer would be. She is starting


with all the advantages. She would need to throw something away for


anything to really wrong. Yet have the department of honesty. If the


real reason she has called the election? I think she wants to


secure a larger majority because I think there will be tough


negotiation ahead. And I think she wants to secure a proper majority,


and not to be weakened by always been on a knife edge in Parliament.


Nothing wrong with that. That was true a month ago, six weeks ago.


Yes, and her view was that she wasn't going to have an election.


She has obviously reflected on it but I don't go for all this, and it


doesn't matter which party the politician is, this business of, oh,


it's a U-turn. No, it's a mature reflection which has resulted in a


different decision. No, it looks and walks like a U-turn! It's a U-turn!


It's the mother of all U-turns! But that is a pejorative way of saying


that somebody has just changed their mind. The lady isn't for turning,


she can't say that now. This is more John Major than Mrs Thatcher. What


macro this is your line? No, I think it is why doing it. With a Lib Dem


recovery, what would it look like? It can't get worse than eight seats.


2016 was being smashed down onto the floor, so they'll do much better.


There is a sort of mood of wanting to take an opportunity to recover to


a respectable showing in the Commons and also to kind of capitalise on


Labour's weakness, because there are some Labour voters who are willing


to vote Lib Dems, but they do have to be able to take this opportunity


and it's not dangerous free, but they will improve their showing. And


also of course the May local elections might help the Lib Dems,


because if they do quite well in the local elections it will give them


momentum. Let me bring in Suzanne. This could be the beginning of the


four Ukip, couldn't it? It could be the beginning of new beginning as


well. We can't do much worse than having non-, which is the position


at the moment. Douglas Carswell, probably the first and the last MP


of your party? And he could probably not be, let's see what happens. You


are not confident, are you? We're not as confident as we were I don't


think before the 2015 general election, which was a massive


disappointment to us. 4 million votes, one member of Parliament, a


brilliant argument if ever there was one for voting reform. For


concentrating your resources on this leads you can win. We are having


those discussions at the moment, where are target seats are going to


be. What's your disagreement with Theresa May? What's Ukip about this


time? In terms of Theresa May, let's say she's talking very much in terms


of her Brexit vision, but she's not being very clear as well on some


other issues and I'm very interested to see what the Tory manifesto is


going to be. Her failure... Now you see the problems I have. Indeed, I


do. Question is what part of Theresa May's Brexit strategy do you


disagree with? Non-, at the moment. So what's the point? The mission she


set out is all very well. Ukip is much more than Brexit. It really is.


That's obviously what we've been seen... Grammar schools. The


government is doing that. Ukip is not... I'm quite enjoying this


coming you tell me the question! It's great! I'm not convinced, Ann,


that Theresa May is actually going to deliver the Brexit that the


British people want. How does standing against her promoter


Brexit? Are you suggesting we don't stand? We are political party. It's


what we do. Let me come back to appoint you made at the head of the


programme to put Ann, you and I both remember the Ted Heath election of


1974. He called it on who runs the country. That was the issue. Within


a week, that had ceased to be the issue. Many other things had become


the issue. There's a chance in that way it kind of runs away. You call


an election on one issue and people say, that's not what I want to talk


about, we want to talk about living standards, we want to talk about the


difficulties of good schools, waiting lists in the NHS, that's got


to be a risk for her. I have no doubt at all that all those types of


issues will, and will be debated. They are bound to, in the course of


a general election. In as far as one can never make predictions and


politics, it is very unlikely that Brexit will be overtaken, in the


sense that people will suddenly forget about it and start


concentrating on other things. I do remember the Tettey selection and he


said, who rules? That was the question he put. He said, who rules?


And people said, nobody. The result was indeterminate. Tim Farron


reckons that the Remain and Leave thing is going to produce a lot for


him, but I look in my own area, slightly different, I'm an anti-hard


Brexit MP and memories are short and a lot of take the NHS Andrew touched


on, a lot of what's happening to the NHS now was instigated by Liberal


Democrats with Conservatives in government and what he's bargaining


on is that areas that have been deeply affected by that, like my


own, will forget the cuts and forget the responsibility that the Liberal


Democrats pair for that now and say, OK, because he's Remain, therefore


I'm going to forget all that and support him. I think by the end of


this, I'm not sure that's going to happen. By the end of the thing, it


comes down to leadership and economy. It's an interesting point,


there are potential huge pitfalls for all of the main parties here.


Labour's pitfalls are obvious, it's to do with the leadership deficit


and the Corbyn factor. The Lib Dems do have this issue of how they deal


with the coalition years and they will make a big mistake if they try


and fight the last war. Already, some of the senior people who are


standing again have made the mistake in the last 24 hours of trying to


argue with the electorate about why they got such a kicking in 2015.


They can't do that. They need to move on. There's plenty to talk


about, about whether you want essentially an over dominant


Conservative Party without in effective opposition, and there they


can make a case that there's a contribution to make when the Labour


Party is in disarray. That will be their argument. If May is going into


this thinking it's a Brexit election, it might be what people


are focused on now but we've also triggered optical 50. We are on the


way out. I actually think there will be other issues that come to the


fore and take over from that quickly. NHS is one of them, on


which this Tory government has failed abysmally. The Health


Secretary is one of the most unpopular there's ever been, not


just... They're always unpopular. This was -- this one is particularly


unpopular. I wonder if the Westminster village doesn't


overestimate the whole Remain and Leave feeling in the country. It


just is not, in people's everyday lives in my area, Remain and Leave


and Brexit is important for a lot of people, a strong Remain


constituency. The health and education cuts is more immediate.


The point I made earlier which I think you make misunderstood, was


straightforward. Just because the Labour candidate is for Remain, why


would that make you vote for Cobilas Prime Minister? That was the point I


was trying to make earlier, when we had Gina here. I don't think


therefore that Brexit will be the sole determining factor. I think


competence, I think record, I think all those things will count and will


count heavily. And of course the Prime Minister wants to make it


about leadership, as she said several times. I wonder why. Let me


come back to you, Chuka. A lot of people on your side are realistic


they think if there's chance of them into power it will have to beat with


an alliance, there will not be an overall majority. It will have to be


an alliance. Is there any hope of a Progressive Alliance? It never seems


to take off in Britain? I think the problem is if you look on the left


and there's been this talk of Liberal Democrats, Greensand Labour,


the ASCII is always full Labour to stand down in favour of Green and


Lib Dem candidates. But the Greens stood out of the way in Richmond to


give the Lib Dems a clear run. The national and local did that, there


was a dispute, wasn't there? I spoke to Caroline Lucas today. She said


clearly, she wants to do that, but it has to be the decision of the


local party. I think in the end, some people are very squiffy about


this but in the end there's an issue in the sense that if there's to be


any kind of alliance of coalition, that's for the voters to determine.


It's not a backroom deal. This is all a disaster, Lynton Crosby's


brilliant slogan, which they are to repeat ad nauseam, is this strong


Tory leadership versus coalition of chaos. There is no prospect of a


coalition with Corbyn, nobody would touch him with a barge pole. Nicola


Sturgeon... That's right, it's difficult to talk about tactical


voting without playing into the hands of Lynton Crosby, so it makes


it very difficult even on the ground. I think there will be some


of it on the ground this time. It's clear Mrs May will seek a new


mandate, not just for Brexit. There's a lot of things she didn't


like in the 2015 manifesto. There's going to be new things, old promises


junked, new ones put in. What is the one thing above all you would like


to see that's new in the Tory manifesto? I want to see a promise


on immigration that is deliverable. And where the mechanisms will be


spelt out. Why do you have faith in Mrs May to deliver that, given her


appalling record of Home Secretary? She was also heavily restricted


during that time by EU law. She didn't control non-EU immigration.


Which is also subject to EU law and refugees. Wakey wakey!


LAUGHTER 26 minutes past 12! Servers are


trying to get a cat nap. We'll move on before we all fall asleep.


Old Choo Choo was so overwhelmed by the prospect of another election


that he bought a ticket on the Hindu Express


Sad man on the left Alan Johnson is even more disenchanted


He's said he's not playing any more and is off to write his memoirs.


That's why we're putting apathy in this week's spotlight.


The Prime Minister's called yet another national vote.


Oh, for gods sake, I can't honestly...


There's too much politics going on at the moment.


So what style of campaigning, if any, can win the electorate over?


I believe in campaigns where politicians actually get out


# I bore myself in broad daylight, 'cause I'm bored #


Or is the cure for apathy to topple the political


It's the establishment versus the people.


It's our historic duty to make sure the people prevail.


Even some of them have had enough of the whole thing.


Grime artist Big Narstie encouraged young people to take part in last


year's EU referendum, but does he still think voting's


worthwhile, or should we smash the system to bits?


Welcome. Do you think people get bored with voting so often? 100%,


man. If you look at the last two years, it still the same. People are


still sleeping in city centres, in bags for life, so with all the


schemes and policies that have happened, MPs saying they will do


this or that, it still seems the poor get poorer, the rich stay the


same and pay higher tax and instead of building council flats, there's


always a new need for a Tesco or Morrisons or Tesco local. So you're


saying it doesn't make any difference? Not at all. What do you


say to that, Chuka I think it does make a difference and Big Narstie is


from my neck of the woods, Lambeth. Of the things we thought, we don't


explain enough the tangible things that happen at the end of your road


that have been the result of a political decision, so I look at my


area, nine sure start children's centres, our secondary school


buildings are hell of a lot better than when you and I went to school,


and our primary school buildings, much better than when we went to


school, and that was as a result of political decisions. New health


centres that were built. All right. People don't associate that with a


political decision. You've got better schools, more sure start


eschew That is supposed to be standard. I


agree. We didn't have it before though. This is what is sick about


the situation. So the politicians 20 years before you, when everybody had


their power before and they give a speech about how they care for the


community, it sounds nice... The thing with elections coming yet, the


focus is on the election instead of the people, because the truth is


that they are real things that we need, they don't look fancy, and to


the establishment, it's really uncomfortable. For more politicians


to say, do you know what? There is that 20 square thousand feet left in


the city centre. We're not going to build a new JD sports. I think we


should build someone bed flats, but that isn't cool to say because it


will ruin your campaign. That is what gets said all the time. The


long-term effect is, because you said just to get through and didn't


do it, the next person said it and didn't do it, so now we are here,


and the man is saying, politicians, you lot are dead food. What is dead


food? Floppy disks, minidisks. In the sense of, when you leave this


place right now and the lights go off and you go about your business,


you've got a good job and you are OK. Let's talk about the people who


have to bank ?88 every two weeks and being told, because of what they


have in their house, they need to pay tax on that. Even prime


ministers, if you want to run this country, we need to go back to


basics. It doesn't matter you are poor or rich. You need to have the


mind state to think for more than just one. But the problem is now,


like most places in the world, the poor out to the rich. There are more


poor people than rich people. One minute, this one is going to mash


your mind. Imagine this. It's not your fault that you come from a


loving home with two parents who have worked hard to give you a


better future and provide some stability for you, but let's talk


about the kids who haven't. How can a person who has had a perfect life,


who has grew up in a perfect society, you've never had an


electric meter in your life, you've never sat in a passageway looking at


a baby thinking, how am I going to... Who are you talking to? I


thought you were talking to Ann. But the group will I bring her in? But


like everybody to have a word. And I'd like everybody to have a woeful


Ken Livingstone, before he became an expert on Hitler, used to say, if


voting mattered, they would abolish it. They had a what? If voting


mattered, they would abolish it. I always said, if you had compulsory


voting and you had a box saying, none of the above, that would


probably win. So you agree? No. I am with Chuka. Just about everything


that happens is governed by political decisions, from basic


things like how often the rubbish is collected, all the way through to


laws on Brexit. All of these things are actually the product of


political decisions and politically understanding or misunderstanding,


and Chuka is right, we don't often explain that. We don't often say,


all of these things changed across somebody took that on board I'm


going to give you the final word. All I'm going to say is this not my


thing is this. The problem with our country, too many people who have


not come from the poor way of life, let's just talk about real life...


We don't have much time. Real life is this. Working over 16 hours, tax


is being taken out and it's hard enough for a normal person to afford


to live in London so you are working 16 hours and you can't afford, and


you're still on benefits, but you have a posh person telling you about


more benefit cuts and cutting money from disabled kids. We are running


over. Real stuff. What good to see you got keep it real. That is your


lot for tonight, but not for us. We're giving Loulou's the swerve


tonight, because we're off to the Bristol mansion


of Ukip's Arron Banks, where he's laid out his maps


of the south-east of England, and together we will pour over them


to help him identify exactly He probably needs to crack


that conundrum before And we will help because, for us,


public service is a 24/7 duty. Nighty night, don't


let the voters bite. I know nothing about Clapton at all.


I've got a reputation for saying it as it is. My plan is to get Clacton,


to see what the issues are and then I'll campaign. I'm certainly going


to buy a house there if I'm elected. I think, from the point of view of


being the MP for Clacton, I think I would be very effective. When I say


I'm going to do something, I do it. And I will be aiming to win. I


understand -- I'm going to stand, come hell or high water.


Andrew Neil is joined by Chuka Umunna, Ann Widdecombe, Miranda Green and Suzanne Evans to review the last few days in politics.

Featuring a film from Gyles Brandreth, looking back over the last few days since the general election was announced.

The studio guests are Gina Miller, who talks about a progressive alliance and tactical voting to challenge hard Brexit, and rapper Big Narstie, who looks at apathy in the spotlight section.