22/06/2017 This Week


22/06/2017

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There appears to be a fault with This Week.

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We're very sorry, but for much better political coverage,

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please tune in to Newsnight on BBC Two, or any Question

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Has normal broadcasting been restored?

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Are we talking about divided Britain?

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We're very sorry if you've just joined us, but This

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What is this, the British Vacuum Broadcasting Corporation?

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We're hoping normal service will be resumed shortly.

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Tomorrow is the first anniversary of the referendum on our membership

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Of course we voted to Remain, as most of us in the mainstream

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A few months later Hillary Clinton became the first female President

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As David Cameron reaches the mid-point of his second

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five-year term there's talk of who the next Tory

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I hear some of you touting the virtues of Theresa May.

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It's as likely as Jeremy Corbyn giving the Tories a run

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for their money in a general election and putting himself

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in pole position to be the next Prime Minister.

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And that's obviously loony-left fantasyland.

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Next thing you'll be telling me the Tories are making

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Yes it's been a quiet, uneventful, even dull 12 months.

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Which is probably why we've become so susceptible to scare

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I see some unscrupulous folk trying to stir up trouble by claiming we're

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re-cladding council blocks in flammable material.

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With all the building rules and regulations?

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You probably think these council blocks don't have

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Speaking of those whose judgement has been consistently wrong

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since they came into this world, I'm joined on the sofa tonight

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by two failed politicians who reinvented themselves as failed

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pundits and who wouldn't have two pennies to rub together if it wasn't

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for the misplaced generosity of BBC licence payers.

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I speak of course of Alan #sadmanontheleft Johnson and Michael

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Michael, your moment of the week. There's a lot of truth in what you

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have just said. I was pleased to see the Prime Minister do something

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well, the offer to EU citizens who have lived here five years to have a

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settled status. But the decisive moment of the week was any moment

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that Philip Hammond spoke and set out a very different vision of what

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Brexit is going to be from what I take to be the official position of

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the Government. So now we are talking about transitional

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arrangements lasting for a long period. I think we are seeing a

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transition from a hard disk and see the Brexit towards the softest. And

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I would think that change will be apparent before the winter. I will

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come back to that later in the programme and ask some questions.

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Your moment? Interview yesterday with Boris Johnson, not because of

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Boris messing it up, but the salience of the questioning, because

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Theresa May's speech on the doorstep of Number Ten was striking almost a

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year ago, and "Burning injustice" which has taken on a new meaning

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after Grenfell Tower, she said the burning injustice of someone who is

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poor dying on average nine years earlier than someone who is not. I

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have searched since then post thing she has done about that and the

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Queen 's speech was a star to do that. She could have said, I would

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chair a Cabinet subcommittee because health and equality covers

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seminarians, but nothing. So the assumption is that it was just

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rhetoric. I will come back to that, too.

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Westminster, Manchester, London Bridge, Finsbury

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These have been testing, tragic times for Britain.

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A time, you might think, for firm but fair political

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But instead the election has only added to the uncertainty and created

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new divisions and weakness from the top down.

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In a troubled and perhaps increasingly divided society

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we have a political system struggling to cope

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Here's businesswoman, wannabe politician and former

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Apprentice winner Michelle Dewberry with her take of the week.

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The political climate in Britain is worryingly heated.

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Divided we stand on issues like Brexit, the future

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of the union, and in terms of age, affluence, religion and ethnicity.

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My fear, particularly with terrorists, activists

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and political leaders seeking to exploit difference,

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Yesterday, we were promised a day of rage in London.

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It was organised to protest against the democratically elected

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government, but its scope widened because of the Grenfell tragedy.

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OK, so the rage didn't boil over this time,

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but the threat of hard left activists donning their balaclavas

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is not constructive, and neither is Labour's solutions

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It's true, Theresa May made mistakes in handling Grenfell,

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but a public lynching is not the answer.

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Unity in finding solutions, finding resources, and Unity

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But also unity in making sure this will never happen again.

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Most of us want the same things in life, regardless

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So why can't we get past poisonous party politics?

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I stood as an independent candidate in Hull and I had volunteers

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I received a shocking amount of abuse from Labour left supporters.

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I always regarded this country is a place respectful of alternate

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views, but now it feels bitter and divided.

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One of the problems is that so many people feel ignored

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and unrepresented by our system, but this didn't start with Brexit.

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In fact, I'd say that the referendum was in part a consequence of this.

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If we must stick with party politics, then we need

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Left to me, I'd do away with the entire party and political

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system and have a parliament filled with independents.

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Our thanks to Flat Iron Square in Borough London.

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Allen, are we really that divided? In the face of multiple terrorist

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attacks in quick succession, you could argue that our resolve and

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unity has been remarkable. I was thinking that when Michelle talked

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about the reaction to Grenfell. That day over age, they are entitled to

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do their marching. But of course, the families and the church which

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was doing a lot of the work, they didn't want anything to do with

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that. I think in general, whilst I agree with the conclusion at the end

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because I have always been in favour of PR, I do not agree with

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independent candidates making things better. You had a good run in my old

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constituency where you come from. There have always been independent

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candidates standing but the problem is that the public do not know what

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they are going to do. You do not get a manifesto, you do not get the

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opportunity to shape what you want and actually make the MP accountable

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for their party position. I think you would find it very difficult to

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have a house full of independent candidates. How divided are we,

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given our reaction to the terrorist attacks, which seemed to bring the

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country together? Look at the imam in Finsbury Park, in saving big eye

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who had just tried to mow them down, and the surrounding community

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response at Grenfell Tower, everybody coming together, that is

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the best of British. That is wonderful. When I see those

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individual responses I think it is excellent but that is not

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representative of what is going on. They are individual things. We are

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divided, we are abusive, we are conflicted, and I do believe that

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party politics plays a part in that. I feel that too many people... If

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you think of the main political parties, we are playing top Trumps.

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What happens in an election is that parties say, I will give you ?1 if

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you vote for me. She has promised ?1. I will give you ?2. ?2 plus an

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ice cream. We are getting out of control. People feel unrepresented,

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politically homeless and it is time for change. Maybe leadership is the

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problem, Michael. Mrs May talks a lot about burning injustice but she

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does not do anything about it, nothing in the Queen's speech. Mr

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Corbyn, certainly a lot of the people around him, including John

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McDonnell, they seem more interested in dividing than uniting. Maybe

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there is a leadership problem. Yes, I think there is. Mrs May was doing

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very well when she appeared on the steps of Downing Street and talked

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about burning social injustices and wanting to do something about them.

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One of the reasons I think she did well was that people thought, she is

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not just another Tory, this is a new language. They thought it about

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David Cameron when he introduced same-sex marriage, this is not just

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another Tory. In summary, what happened during the general election

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was that, as none of that rhetoric was followed through, and as the

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election drifted onto grammar schools and fox-hunting, and as many

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of her interviews were rather vacuous and defensive, people

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suddenly thought, she is just another Tory. And I think that is

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the great challenge for the Conservative Party. How to find

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someone to lead it who will not look like just another Tory. We can all

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agree that her actions will never come near the rhetoric. That is

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pretty clear. But if you take Mr Corbyn or John McDonnell, why

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encourage people to take to the streets when the police are already

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stretched to the limit? To be fair to John McDonnell, he made the

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announcement before Grenfell Tower. I'm not sure he has pulled it back,

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though. But he made it before Grenfell Tower, so it was not

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linked. There is division in society and Grenfell Tower showed it. There

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are some obscene statistics. Michael Wilner because it is his

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constituency, and I was born in North Kensington, you can get the

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statistics between North and south Kensington and there is a huge gap

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in mortality rates, and there is a real issue to be tackled there. But

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Mrs May's rhetoric, if you remember when she announced the election, she

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said, the country is united but Westminster is divided. That was

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their reason for having a general election. Of course the country

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wasn't United. I don't think it's about the reaction to terrorism. I

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think it was about Europe. It was about David Cameron's adventure of

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having a referendum on Europe when we didn't need to, and another

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gamble of Theresa May going to the country when she didn't need to. But

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the referendum only happened as a consequence of people feeling

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completely unrepresented and not listened to. That might be the

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result, but not having the referendum. You think it was the

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cause? I feel too many people for too long are not represented in

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Parliament. And I feel that the Brexit referendum was one of the

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consequences of that. I always use the term "Politically homeless",

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"Political top Trumps". What does that mean? Parties promise. Parties

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number one will promise ?1, party number two will promise to pounce.

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But there is no democracy in the world without political parties.

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Maybe there should be. People have tried, the Americans tried. George

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Washington did not want political parties when he became the first

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President and within eight years, America had political parties. They

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reflect the divisions, aspirations of society. But why is it OK for

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political parties to promise us the world? What happens is that they sit

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down and work out, how can I win an election, who do I want to appeal

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to? I want to appeal to the elderly, here are my promises for you... That

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is how political parties operate. Please let me finish my point

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because the reality is that you make these promises and it is top Trumps,

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trying to outdo each other, and then you let people down. So you get into

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power, and you cannot follow through with what you have offered people.

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On this election, more people return to the two main parties. If you were

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right, people would be looking for independent candidates. Theresa May

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said for a lot of people did not want to hear. Labour can't deliver

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what they promised. You know they can't. The Conservative Party

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actually did come out with a manifesto that took on some

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difficult issues. And then ran away from it.

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Michael, you wanted to make a point. There is a problem with democracy

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everywhere which is that the parties are thrown into competition with

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each other to over-promise and the result of all that is not only that

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people are disappointed but it can only be done by sit financing so

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that debts accumulate and are passed down to future generations. It's the

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single greatest flaw with democracy. I do become slightly impatient with

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the idea that people feel unrepresented. I mean, they've had

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many occasions to vote recently and they've made enormously important

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decisions, you know, that Scotland shouldn't become independent, they

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shouldn't change the voting system. Now that we should have a hung

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Parliament. I mean, you know, there is no reason why people should feel

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unrepresentative. They have made important decisions. People feel

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there is a sense of incompetence as well. We are a country, we are awash

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with safety regulations yet we couldn't forbid combustible cladding

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on buildings, or insist on fire sprinklers in blocks. I mean it's

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not that difficult to do any of that, and Mrs May admitted that

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there was an inadequate response to Grenfell Tower. This happened in the

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heart of the richest, sophisticated, biggest, best resourced City in

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Europe. Why was the response inadequate? I think people are angry

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at this? Yes, but hold on, so what happened in Grenfell was a tragedy,

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it was awful, everybody would agree with that. What I'm disgusted by is

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the political point-scoring, so all of a sudden it's become Theresa

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May's fault or it's become this person's fault, that person's fault.

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What's happened in Grenfell is an absolute systemic and long-term

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failing from various different Governments, councils, bodies,

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regulatory figures. This should never have happened. It's not a

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single party's fault. And what's happening though Andrew is that

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people are jumping on it and using it to create divide. It's absolutely

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wrong. And what I would hope is that we have unity in going forward to

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never again let this happen ever. This is not the first tower block

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that's burnt. Lessons should have been learnt a very long time ago and

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they were not. OK. We shall see if the lessons are learnt this time.

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Thank you. Now, it's late, death metal

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serenades with Ed Miliband late. Which means we're not the only

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broadcasting niche that antiquated political relics can turn

:18:15.:18:18.

to when their careers But if Red Ed's venture into not-so

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popular music leaves you desperately reaching for your Blue Nun,

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fear not, because waiting in the wings is columnist

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Melanie Phillips here to but the Anglosphere

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in our Spotlight. So be a proper FaceBrit,

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Snapchant the national anthem and tweet all the internets you can,

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after all, we invented them. Now, like all of you, I'm sure,

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we were really looking forward Michael couldn't wait

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for Theresa May's greatest hits being wheeled out for the state

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opening of Parliament. Grammar schools, the Energy cap, Fox

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hunting, scrapping the triple lock, social care reform and,

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of course, welcoming Alan even volunteered to hold

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the Donald's hand if he were to ever Unable to command a majority

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and secure a deal with the DUP, Theresa May was reduced

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to announcing a rather Here's Richard Madeley with his

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Round up of the political week. The week began with yet another

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appalling terror attack, this time A van drove into a group of Muslims

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congregated close to a mosque in Finsbury Park North London,

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left one man dead, two The Prime Minister heavily

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criticised a few days earlier, for failing to go and meet

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with the victims and survivors of the Grenfell Tower

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disaster, wasted no time. There is no place for this hatred

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in our country today and we need to work together as one society,

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as one community, to drive it out, this evil that is

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affecting so many families. The local MP, and of course

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Labour Leader, Jeremy Corbyn, An attack on a mosque,

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synagogue, church, is actually We have to protect each other's

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faith, each other's way of life. That's what makes us a strong

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society and community. The main event of the political week

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was the Queen's speech. I was already in my best bib

:20:23.:20:25.

and tucker and even dusted Apparently, Alan's been using this

:20:26.:20:28.

to store twiglets in. Smells a bit yeasty

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but hey good as knew... Then the Queen said she wanted

:20:34.:20:35.

a dress down speech. Nobody does scruffy

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quite like This Week. Some nights the studio looks

:20:40.:20:58.

like laundry day at Momentum HQ. # I'm gonna box some tags, only got

:20:59.:21:01.

twenty dollars in my pocket. Facebook apps, not sure they're

:21:02.:21:12.

really me, Ivanka, not sure at all. Brexit negotiations began this week

:21:13.:21:15.

and David Davis headed off I don't know, I think this actually

:21:16.:21:23.

works, what do you think? Come on, Ivanka, you Metropolitan

:21:24.:21:31.

milk toast, where's your optimism? There's no doubt that the road ahead

:21:32.:21:36.

will at times be challenging, but, as Winston Churchill once said,

:21:37.:21:39.

the pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,

:21:40.:21:41.

the optimist sees opportunity And so, bridging between Churchill

:21:42.:21:43.

and Monet, I'm certainly Nobody doubts that the Brexit

:21:44.:21:49.

secretary's a trier, but it's going to take a lot more

:21:50.:21:53.

than bluff Bonomy to win over Of course he lost an early battle

:21:54.:21:56.

on the timeline for negotiations, so many questions on trade

:21:57.:22:01.

that the UK wants to settle But hey, chin up David,

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at least the EU isn't That is why we will work

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all the time with the UK There will be no

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austerity on my side. I will display

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a constructive attitude. Well, Philip Hammond has had

:22:42.:22:45.

a post-election make-over. He used his Mansion House speech

:22:46.:22:48.

to argue that Britain should wait for a new trade deal to be agreed

:22:49.:22:55.

before ripping up the old one, Still, you don't stand out

:22:56.:22:58.

unless you are prepared to break We'll almost certainly need

:22:59.:23:05.

an implementation period outside the customs union itself,

:23:06.:23:10.

but with current customs border arrangements remaining in place

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until new long-term arrangements The collective sigh

:23:18.:23:19.

of relief would be audible. While David Davis was grappling

:23:20.:23:26.

with the EU, Theresa May was talking to the DUP to try

:23:27.:23:29.

and secure her Commons majority. But do you know what, the unionists

:23:30.:23:32.

don't seem to like her style. The DUP reportedly feel

:23:33.:23:35.

taken for granted. What could make it up

:23:36.:23:42.

to the sensitive souls? Two billion in health

:23:43.:23:46.

and infrastructure spending? There's no individual

:23:47.:23:48.

sticking point. All negotiations of this kind

:23:49.:23:52.

can take a long time. With no Commons majority,

:23:53.:23:58.

the Queen's speech was paired right Meanwhile, the Queen kept her crown

:23:59.:24:06.

in her hand bag and instead she wore rather fetching little hat

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in blue and yellow. My Government's priority

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is to secure the best possible deal as the country leaves

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the European Union. Completely missing from the speech

:24:25.:24:29.

was any mention of those manifesto pledges like scrapping the triple

:24:30.:24:33.

lock on pensions or ending winter fuel allowances for pensioners

:24:34.:24:37.

or even free school lunches Oh, and of course no mention

:24:38.:24:41.

of a state visit to the UK Travel ban for the Donald,

:24:42.:24:48.

you limey losers. Theresa May is now looking

:24:49.:24:55.

seriously out of fashion. The test for all of us

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is whether we choose to reflect divisions or help

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the country overcome them. With humility and resolve,

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this Government will We will do what is in the national

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interest and we will work with anyone in any party

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that is prepared to do the same. Jeremy Corbyn, no stranger

:25:14.:25:18.

to dressing down himself, was in seriously bullish form

:25:19.:25:20.

but he didn't bow to Her Majesty. Labour later put that down

:25:21.:25:25.

to a matter of protocol, He made it very plain that Labour

:25:26.:25:29.

would oppose the Government whenever Well, I suppose if you've got it,

:25:30.:25:38.

flaunt it, even if IT is a better We will use every opportunity

:25:39.:25:45.

to vote down Government policies that have failed

:25:46.:25:50.

to win public support. We will use every opportunity to win

:25:51.:25:55.

support for our programme. Labour is not merely

:25:56.:25:58.

an opposition, Mr Speaker. Outside the Commons,

:25:59.:26:03.

a day of rage was under way, a fierce protest against the hated

:26:04.:26:10.

May Government and austerity. But actually, as it started

:26:11.:26:15.

after lunch, technically it was more Senior Labour figures

:26:16.:26:17.

backed the protest, That's Gandhi on a really,

:26:18.:26:24.

really bad hair day. People may call a day

:26:25.:26:35.

of rage or whatever. They've got the right

:26:36.:26:37.

if they want to be angry but they haven't got the right

:26:38.:26:40.

to be violent. All protests have

:26:41.:26:42.

got to be peaceful. If you want to see what an effective

:26:43.:26:44.

protest is all about, As if slumming it with all those

:26:45.:26:47.

scabby MPs wasn't enough, we've got a lot of crusty

:26:48.:26:51.

protestors hanging around. God it's starting to

:26:52.:26:53.

feel like Glastonbury. Liz, put the champagne on ice

:26:54.:26:55.

and a tenner on the fave. And thanks to Beyond

:26:56.:27:15.

Retro in East London. Let's start with something

:27:16.:27:27.

counterintuitive. Let's agree for the sake of discussion that Mrs May

:27:28.:27:31.

is useless at their election campaigns, but she is still Prime

:27:32.:27:34.

Minister. Is it not still possible that over the next year she could

:27:35.:27:41.

actually recover? I wouldn't have thought the Conservative Party would

:27:42.:27:45.

want her to fight another election. I didn't say that, but over the next

:27:46.:27:49.

year she could recover some of the ground she's lost? I think what

:27:50.:27:57.

we've seen in the last week is the Chancellor of the Exchequer

:27:58.:28:00.

changing, pretty fundamentally, the terms of the renegotiation. You say

:28:01.:28:05.

that, but he is in favour of leaving the single market, he knows we have

:28:06.:28:08.

to get out of the customs union, he knows we have to end free movement.

:28:09.:28:14.

He is talking about a longer transition period. I don't think

:28:15.:28:17.

that is where we are going to end up. If you look at the Labour and

:28:18.:28:22.

Tory manifesto is, they broadly say the same thing on Brexit. Why would

:28:23.:28:28.

it change at the edges? Why would you argue it has changed so

:28:29.:28:33.

fundamentally? I don't think you would get hard Brexit through the

:28:34.:28:38.

House of Lords. But I interviewed the Labour Leader of the House of

:28:39.:28:42.

Lords yesterday on the Daily Politics. She said they were not

:28:43.:28:49.

looking for a fight over Brexit. Well, I think the election has

:28:50.:28:54.

completely changed the Brexit terms. I think a different sort of Brexit

:28:55.:29:00.

is going to come about. I think the Chancellor of the Exchequer will

:29:01.:29:03.

lead in that direction and I would not be surprised if David Davis

:29:04.:29:09.

moved his position, too. The Tory Remainer rebels, such as they are,

:29:10.:29:15.

-- are out numbered by the Labour Leave rebels. There is still a

:29:16.:29:19.

substantial majority in the Commons for the large part of the overlap on

:29:20.:29:25.

Brexit that was in the Labour and Conservative manifestos. I would not

:29:26.:29:31.

trust the Labour manifesto at all, and you can see that you cannot

:29:32.:29:33.

trust the Conservative manifesto either. You have seen how much has

:29:34.:29:41.

been ditched. Not Brexit. Not yet Brexit, or the form of Brexit. I

:29:42.:29:45.

don't believe the Labour Party manifesto represents... We can ask

:29:46.:29:50.

Alan, but I don't believe it represents the majority position of

:29:51.:29:55.

Labour member of -- members of Parliament. We know that too

:29:56.:30:00.

mystical bin and John McDonnell, that part of Labour, they don't care

:30:01.:30:05.

much about Brexit. It is austerity, inequality that gets them up in the

:30:06.:30:10.

morning. This Labour leadership is not looking for a fight over Brexit.

:30:11.:30:14.

It wants a fight over plenty of other things but not this. But they

:30:15.:30:18.

got it at salute the right on Article 50, spot-on, that you do not

:30:19.:30:23.

overturn that referendum decision but you recognise that the real

:30:24.:30:26.

issues will come further down the track. -- they got it absolutely

:30:27.:30:33.

right. Just look at what Keir Starmer has been saying. Michael is

:30:34.:30:37.

right, the whole tone has changed, the whole rhetoric, the kind of

:30:38.:30:42.

"Difficult woman" stuff has gone. Boris Johnson, it is OK to fall out

:30:43.:30:46.

on WTO terms, that has gone completely. But there is a consensus

:30:47.:30:51.

between the frontbenchers on no longer being a member of the single

:30:52.:30:56.

market. It is the transition that is the big difference. You can have a

:30:57.:31:01.

longer transition period. There is a consensus that we have to leave the

:31:02.:31:05.

customs union, that free movement has to end. The frontbenchers are

:31:06.:31:08.

not arguing about these things, so where does the substance... The

:31:09.:31:16.

process may change, the language may change, the transition period might

:31:17.:31:20.

change, we saw Mr Hammond talking about a transition period, but the

:31:21.:31:23.

destination does not seem that different. Maybe not, but we are in

:31:24.:31:29.

a weaker position now. The other 27 member states have not collapsed, as

:31:30.:31:33.

the leaders suggested. They are more united. The Italian growth rate is

:31:34.:31:41.

twice ours, Germany's is four times. The Italian economy is smaller than

:31:42.:31:47.

in 1990. The Italian economy has not grown for almost two decades. It has

:31:48.:31:51.

to start growing some time. The European economy has not fallen

:31:52.:31:57.

apart. Who, other than Nigel Farage, said the European Union would fall

:31:58.:32:02.

apart? I call goes, Boris Johnson. We could show the rest of Europe, we

:32:03.:32:09.

can lead the fight. But not that it would fall apart. I think we are

:32:10.:32:12.

moving off the point and it is an interesting point. You are taking

:32:13.:32:17.

very literally the fact that the Conservative Party's official

:32:18.:32:21.

position has not changed, you are taking literally what was said by

:32:22.:32:24.

the Labour Party leadership Ynys Mon festival about Brexit. I am just

:32:25.:32:29.

asking tough questions to break this consensus between you. Otherwise we

:32:30.:32:36.

become a 1-party state. We cannot fault you on that but from our

:32:37.:32:39.

wholly different positions on Brexit, fundamentally different, we

:32:40.:32:43.

both have a feeling we will end up in a completely different place from

:32:44.:32:47.

what we imagined before the general election. You said that last week as

:32:48.:32:52.

well and I am probing the reasons for that. You may be right but I

:32:53.:32:56.

have not heard any convincing reasons to suggest that yet. It is

:32:57.:33:01.

early days. We don't know how this is going to go, and the Labour front

:33:02.:33:06.

bench will be crucial. If it sticks to its manifesto, I do not see your

:33:07.:33:10.

problems. If it wants to cause problems, I think it could. It is

:33:11.:33:16.

not just the Labour front bench, is it? Labour and Tory MPs have strong

:33:17.:33:19.

feelings, quite apart from the front bench tells them. And even the

:33:20.:33:23.

frontbenchers heavily divided on both sides. Are you worried that it

:33:24.:33:31.

is the hard left that now runs your party? I am very worried that the

:33:32.:33:37.

sectarian left, as I would call them, are running the party. But I

:33:38.:33:41.

do not want to rain on Labour's parade. There is a mess out there.

:33:42.:33:45.

The more you look at what is happening, a year after the

:33:46.:33:48.

referendum we have only just got going on the debate. Last time I was

:33:49.:33:52.

on we were talking about a three-month delay because of the

:33:53.:33:55.

election. You were saying it would not matter because nothing much

:33:56.:33:59.

would have happened. But it looks bad, it looks weak, the country

:34:00.:34:03.

looks like a laughing stock, with a Prime Minister destined to go and

:34:04.:34:06.

Boris Johnson popping up every five minutes on the media. We know what

:34:07.:34:11.

that is about. I think we have done Boris. It is like shooting trout in

:34:12.:34:17.

a barrel. But it feels humiliated that we are in this situation. So I

:34:18.:34:21.

would have a Labour government any time. And really, the sense of what

:34:22.:34:28.

happened in that election and the momentum, to use the term, towards

:34:29.:34:32.

the end, means that they need to get back to the country as soon as

:34:33.:34:37.

possible. That might fade away. Would you like to see these days of

:34:38.:34:40.

chaos, this uncertainty, instability being used to rerun the referendum

:34:41.:34:50.

for Remain to get the advantage again? Are you in the category of

:34:51.:34:55.

one of these Remainers that says, of course I accept the result of the

:34:56.:34:58.

referendum but I will now try to do everything I can to stop it from

:34:59.:35:04.

happening? No. But I do think we will spend time and treasure trying

:35:05.:35:08.

to get back to where we were in the first place, a good trade deal,

:35:09.:35:14.

absence of bureaucracy when crossing borders, the right of citizens to

:35:15.:35:18.

remain in this country. We are fighting and struggling to get back

:35:19.:35:21.

to where we were. At some stage over the next few years, longer than two

:35:22.:35:26.

years, people might come to the conclusion, let's think about this

:35:27.:35:30.

again. The will of the people might change but that is not something

:35:31.:35:35.

new. We have run out of time. When do you think the next election will

:35:36.:35:46.

be? In three years. Three years?! I think within 18 months. The truth

:35:47.:35:50.

is, it could be any time. We don't know, do we? We don't know. We don't

:35:51.:35:58.

know how the 12 Scottish Tories will go because there seems to be a

:35:59.:36:02.

streak of independence. There are 12 Scottish Tories? When did that

:36:03.:36:04.

happen? 13, unbelievable. Now, are you Glastonbury

:36:05.:36:14.

or are you Ascot? The three of us our obviously buzzin

:36:15.:36:16.

for that glasto hype, Alan can't possibly miss

:36:17.:36:19.

an opportunity for some comradely crowd surfing with Jezza Corbs

:36:20.:36:21.

and Michael wants to be front row for Stormzy, Boy Better Know, JME,

:36:22.:36:24.

Dizzee Rascal and Kurupt FM. His love of grime has

:36:25.:36:26.

reached new heights, especially since he was roped

:36:27.:36:28.

in as the new poster boy of Grime4Corbyn, With his shirts,

:36:29.:36:31.

he's sure to fit right in. As for me, I can't be sat at home

:36:32.:36:34.

with massive FOMO so I'll be seeing Major Lazer,

:36:35.:36:37.

Foo Fighters and Biffy Clyro, just as soon as one of our interns

:36:38.:36:39.

explains to me what those are. And what this has to do

:36:40.:36:46.

with putting the Anglosphere in the Spotlight I've got no idea,

:36:47.:36:52.

but we are. So what does a dressed

:36:53.:37:10.

down Queen's speech say Does disregarding pomp and ceremony

:37:11.:37:12.

mean we've lost our self-confidence. Or is Britain's

:37:13.:37:25.

greatness unshakeable? The Prime Minister reckons

:37:26.:37:34.

the country will overcome a month of tragedies

:37:35.:37:36.

and become even greater. We are a great nation

:37:37.:37:40.

and a great people. We have been through and survived

:37:41.:37:43.

the toughest of times Once again, we can

:37:44.:37:46.

and will grow stronger The Governor of the Bank

:37:47.:37:49.

of England appears concerned. Before long, we will all begin

:37:50.:38:06.

to find out the extent to which Brexit is a gentle stroll

:38:07.:38:09.

along a smooth path towards a land Meanwhile, on the other

:38:10.:38:13.

side of the Anglosphere, Donald Trump seems to be promoting

:38:14.:38:20.

American isolationism. After decades of rebuilding foreign

:38:21.:38:29.

nations, all over the world, Melanie Phillips thinks

:38:30.:38:31.

the Anglosphere has been Mr Trump in the White House, Mrs May

:38:32.:39:04.

probably just went through the biggest self-inflicted, unnecessary

:39:05.:39:08.

wound in modern British politics. So is the Anglosphere in decline under

:39:09.:39:14.

these two? I thought the Anglosphere was in decline for the last 30 years

:39:15.:39:18.

and I allowed myself a brief moment of optimism from last year's

:39:19.:39:21.

referendum until now, for these reasons. I think the Anglosphere has

:39:22.:39:27.

been in decline, Britain and America, the West, the English

:39:28.:39:31.

speaking world, because of a profound demoralisation, which I

:39:32.:39:34.

would date to the end of the Second World War. As a result of which

:39:35.:39:41.

Europe lost its belief in itself. It believed it had to be saved from

:39:42.:39:45.

itself. Britain ended up at the end of the war bankrupt, in hock to

:39:46.:39:50.

America, lost the Empire. Its elites word tomorrow lies, vulnerable to a

:39:51.:39:57.

slew of anti-Western ideologies which destroyed the education

:39:58.:40:01.

system, told us we had no national identity, we have to be

:40:02.:40:03.

multicultural and so on. A similar thing went on in America. The

:40:04.:40:09.

Anglosphere is the English speaking world led by Britain and America.

:40:10.:40:15.

Written is the originator of political liberty. But plenty of

:40:16.:40:19.

English speaking nations are not in decline. Australia, Canada, New

:40:20.:40:24.

Zealand. And since the Indian elite speak English, India certainly isn't

:40:25.:40:28.

in decline. Depends what you mean by decline. Britain is a major world

:40:29.:40:34.

economy, but what I'm in is that it does not have any confidence in

:40:35.:40:37.

itself any more, in its own identity. It does not understand or

:40:38.:40:42.

want to know what it historically believes in and supports, does not

:40:43.:40:45.

have the ability to defend itself any more. What I thought about

:40:46.:40:50.

Brexit and the election of Donald Trump, I think one has to put aside

:40:51.:40:54.

the man from what brought him to power. I have great reservations

:40:55.:40:57.

about Donald Trump, I think he has many psychological flaws, but what I

:40:58.:41:02.

think brought him to power is what I think brought Brexit to being as

:41:03.:41:05.

well, which was the belief by millions in Britain and America,

:41:06.:41:09.

they wanted their country back, wanted to become once again a

:41:10.:41:14.

self-governing western democratic nation. What does that have to do

:41:15.:41:19.

with the Anglosphere? You only want to be a self-governing nation if you

:41:20.:41:24.

believe in yourself. It is a benign circle. You have to become a

:41:25.:41:26.

self-governing nation to believe in yourself again. America had a

:41:27.:41:32.

different set of problems. America was internally guilty at its history

:41:33.:41:36.

of race as a man came to believe it was responsible for the ills of the

:41:37.:41:40.

world. Over many years it stopped being a force for good in the world.

:41:41.:41:45.

It has to recover that again. What do you make of this argument? I

:41:46.:41:50.

think Melanie is fundamentally right. There is something peculiar

:41:51.:41:55.

and particular about the knighted States and Britain and the way in

:41:56.:41:59.

which representative government has formed in those places. Magna Carta

:42:00.:42:03.

is thought to be our inspiration but it is even more the inspiration of

:42:04.:42:07.

the United States. There was a point at which they overtook us. But we

:42:08.:42:11.

have a particular view about representative democracy. In 1941

:42:12.:42:15.

there were 11 democracies in the world and there are now 105. They

:42:16.:42:22.

are all rather young, including ours and the United States. When the

:42:23.:42:26.

European Union began to embark on a project where democracy was a

:42:27.:42:31.

secondary consideration, where there was not accountability, institutions

:42:32.:42:34.

were not responsible to their populations, we entered a period of

:42:35.:42:41.

great danger. Too many monologues here. I disagree completely. The

:42:42.:42:46.

thing about the European Union, if it was a democracy it would be

:42:47.:42:50.

replicating a country. Its whole issue as to why you don't have the

:42:51.:42:54.

election of the Commissioners is because it doesn't pretend to be a

:42:55.:43:00.

country. Does the Anglosphere appeared to be in decline and does

:43:01.:43:05.

it matter? It seems to me the baby boomer generation has done very

:43:06.:43:08.

well. The problems started, reflected in the EU referendum and

:43:09.:43:15.

the Trump election from the crash onwards. People do not believe they

:43:16.:43:18.

are sharing the proceeds of growth. The economy that was a tool of

:43:19.:43:22.

society, it is now the other way around. Can be put back together?

:43:23.:43:28.

Definitely but we have to do Brexit properly and Trump as to survive his

:43:29.:43:33.

own inadequacies. Everything leads back to Brexit.

:43:34.:43:37.

Breakfast TV is on next... It is not but it sometimes seems like that.

:43:38.:43:49.

We're giving Lou Lou's a miss because we're hopping straight

:43:50.:43:51.

Michael is beside himself with excitement.

:43:52.:43:54.

But only because we're going by train.

:43:55.:43:55.

Alan has arranged extra luxurious glamping for us.

:43:56.:43:59.

He needs a nice place to sell signed copies of Volume 12 of his memoirs.

:44:00.:44:03.

Nighty night, don't let Sean Spicer bite.

:44:04.:44:06.

# Communication let me down, and I'm left here #.

:44:07.:44:11.

At this point I have not asked, and I'm not fully aware of...

:44:12.:44:15.

I mean, I'm aware of the testimony that occurred in the enquiries,

:44:16.:44:18.

I've not asked the President since the last time we spoke about this.

:44:19.:44:27.

I have not asked the President or his staff about that.

:44:28.:44:29.

No, I haven't asked him about that, but I'm not aware of anything.

:44:30.:44:38.

I have not had an opportunity to specifically talk

:44:39.:44:40.

I have not had an opportunity to have that discussion.

:44:41.:44:44.

I have not spoken to the President about this.

:44:45.:44:46.

Look, I think I haven't spoken to the President

:44:47.:44:48.

I don't know, I honestly haven't asked him that specific question.

:44:49.:44:52.

I have not have that discussion with him.

:44:53.:44:54.

Does he have confidence in his Attorney General?

:44:55.:44:56.

I have not had a discussion with him on the question.

:44:57.:44:59.

If I haven't had a discussion with him about a subject,

:45:00.:45:02.

# Communication let me down, and I'm left here

:45:03.:45:21.

FOO FIGHTERS: # Don't let it go to waste

:45:22.:45:25.

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