Browse content similar to 16/06/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's just another lonely night in Westminster. | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
The sidewalks are deserted, the malls are empty, | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
the post-election dust still hasn't settled, and the moon is out. | :00:09. | :00:31. | |
OK, guys, we have someone on the line. | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
Hello, I'm THE Gyles Brandreth from Barnes and I want to talk | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
about how the Prime Minister has emerged from a failed | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
Given this was meant to be the Brexit election, | :00:45. | :00:52. | |
I'd kind of like to know what's happening with our exit from the EU. | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
Look, the Prime Minister said Brexit means Brexit but now it | :00:56. | :01:07. | |
It makes me wonder about the hand of history. | :01:08. | :01:15. | |
If only there were some historians listening in. | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
It can't be because the show is too popular. | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
My interns tell me the switchboard is lighting up. | :01:26. | :01:33. | |
Evenin' all and welcome to This Week. | :01:34. | :01:56. | |
In the early hours of yesterday moring Khalid Ahmed was preparing | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
Khalid lives on the eighth floor of Grenfell Tower, | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
a 24-storey apartment block in west London. | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
Suddenly he realised something was dreadfully wrong. | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
15 minutes later, nearly the whole building was ablaze in one | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
of the worst fires London has seen in living memory. | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
Many Muslims who lived in the building had stayed up | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
for suhar, the meal between one and two o'clock in the morning | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
Many people in Grenfell Tower may owe their lives to that very fact. | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
Amid reports of fire alarms not working, those awake ran from door | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
But many, many are still unaccounted for and many | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
It's feared the death toll could be very high. | :02:44. | :02:50. | |
No one knows for certain what caused the fire, | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
but we do know that residents had expressed concern about the safety | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
of the building, with some fearing it was a "disaster | :02:57. | :02:58. | |
This afternoon the Prime Minister called for a full public | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
The nation, grappling with tales of desperate mothers | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
throwing their babies out of windows, and of children crying | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
for help at flame-engulfed windows, will have to wait some | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
The general election seems a long time away, | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
but for the moment we do not have a government that | :03:22. | :03:23. | |
can command a majority, and ministers cannot be properly | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
questioned on the causes of, or their response | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
to the Grenfell Tower fire, because Parliament | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
In the last three months our country has endured three horrific terrorist | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
attacks, and the country's brave emergency services have been | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
The nation feels, yet again, a sense of deep, profound shock. | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
Tough questions need to be answered and many lives will | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
The actual flames, mercifully, have died down, but you sense that the | :03:51. | :04:09. | |
flames of the political row are just starting to smoulder. Will this be | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
politicised? Well, I think people are rightly angry about what has | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
happened because it should never have happened, in the richest city | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
in one of the richest countries in the world. And I think you saw | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
today, when various politicians visited, that people want people to | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
be held responsible and held to account. It's hell on earth. It | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
feels like something you might see in a third World country, not in | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
this country. And the unimaginable horror of what people have been | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
through and what they have seen will live with them four-year stint come, | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
but people want answers quickly. And is the enquiry a way to get those | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
answers? Absolutely. A full public enquiry. Nothing else will satisfy | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
people. Both party leaders went down today. Very different approaches | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
from Mrs May and Mr Corbyn. How would you characterise what they | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
did? Alas, Mrs May was what she has been for the last six weeks, which | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
is to say she wanted an entirely controlled situation in which she | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
did not use her cue manner. She met in private with the emergency | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
services, no doubt a good thing to do, but she should have been there | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
with the residents, which is what Jeremy Corbyn was. He was hugging | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
people and being natural. The Prime Minister would have been shouted at, | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
but she should have been willing to take that. Because the London mayor, | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
Sadiq Khan, got heckled quite a lot. It is not their fault, but you have | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
to be prepared to receive people's emotions, and not be so frightened | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
about people. May I say, I think it has sent a shameful image of this | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
country around the world, to see public-housing blazing like a torch | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
is a shameful image. It reminds me of the King's Cross fire and of | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
Hillsborough. The one bit of comfort I draw from this is that King's | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
Cross and Hillsborough led to dramatic changes in those fields, | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
and there will be dramatic changes in public housing. Many tower blocks | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
will be torn down because we will decide we need two staircases, and | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
it will not be possible to refit many of them. And I think there will | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
be a broader reconsideration of what is going on on estates. At the | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
moment, we are grappling with this enormous death toll, which I think | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
is going to be enormous, but something very different will come | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
out of it, and something much better for the future. Last couple of | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
words. There will be people watching who will say it was not that long | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
ago that there was a fire in Camberwell and an inquest sat for | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
the best part of three months and recommendations were made, the idea | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
that lessons need to be learned. Nothing happened. Much of it in the | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
end is about money. On the front page of The Times tomorrow, there is | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
a horrific story that the difference between having a properly fireproof | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
panel is ?2 more, and for ?5,000 it was not done properly. So it will be | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
about money. We can't avoid that. And I think the mood of the country | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
is shifting to saying that cutting costs is clearly risking lives and | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
is not the right approach for the future. I think it is more than | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
that, I think it is a transformational moment. Because? | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
Because this disaster is much worse than any of the others. It is going | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
to be a horrific death toll and like the King's Cross fire and | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
Hillsborough you cannot ignore it. We have to change everything. Thank | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
you. Now, the eagle-eyed and sober among | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
you may have noticed that I am not, He's on a walking holiday | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
in Snowdonia with Molly the dog and Tim Farron, | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
who suddenly has a lot Luckily for this program, | :08:01. | :08:02. | |
BBC editorial guidelines clearly state that This Week should make it | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
to air as long as it's presented by a grumpy, | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
arrogant, overpaid, brutish, red faced broadcaster | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
with a history of rough interviews Which is just as well | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
because what a week's it's been, what with the Tories winning | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
but losing and Labour To think that this time last week | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
many in the Westminster bubble What history will make of Theresa | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
May's premiership is anyone's guess. A year ago hailed for her steely | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
determination and a safe pair of hands, she appears friendless | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
and a source of ridicule, having presided over one of the worst | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
election campaigns in history. So goodbye a 20-point | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
lead in the polls, farewell a Commons majority, | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
and adios that manifesto. But what does it | :08:56. | :08:57. | |
all mean for Brexit? After all, the election | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
was all about that - wasn't it? Here's the Telegraph's Liam Halligan | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
with his take of the week. Brexit is up in the air, dominated | :09:05. | :09:33. | |
by DUP deal-making. But away from the spotlight, the UK's Brexit | :09:34. | :09:44. | |
strategy is in a spin. Stop! The soft Brexit crew are back, pushing | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
for continued membership of the EU single market. But that means | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
ongoing annual multi-billion pound payments to Brussels, and the | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
continued supremacy of EU law, not least on freedom of movement. That's | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
why so-called soft Brexit isn't really Brexit. And to say that it | :10:06. | :10:17. | |
is, stretching the truth. Brexit isn't a dead. Labour and the Tories | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
between them one over four fifth of the vote last Thursday, both vowing | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
to leave the single market. Then there is the 52% who back to leaving | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
the EU last June. And the anti-Brexit Lib Dems and SNP both | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
spooked voters in this election, getting a lower share of the vote. | :10:38. | :10:44. | |
This hung parliament weakens the UK in Europe's eyes. One Dutch | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
newspaper cartoon had our Prime Minister hitting herself over the | :10:51. | :10:58. | |
head with a hammer. Perhaps there is something we can do for you, said | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
Jean-Claude Juncker, EU President, in the cartoon. In reality, the EU | :11:03. | :11:12. | |
itself is badly split. Franco- German unity is a pipe dream and EU | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
business leaders want a UK trade deal. If we hold our nerve and take | :11:17. | :11:24. | |
careful aim, we can still strike a good bargain. Brexit was always | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
going to bring political ups and downs, but if we get queasy, with a | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
fee brow commons or a determined House of Lords trying to stop it, | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
the EU will give us the worst possible deal. But that could derail | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
the process, leaving us stuck in the EU. That would delight much of the | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
political and media establishment, but many voters would be furious, | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
viewing democracy has nothing but make-believe. | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
They'll be in Clissold Park, London, this weekend. | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
Liam Halligan from the Telegraph joins me now. | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
Hopefully he's done screaming for the day. | :12:08. | :12:15. | |
You can show off in a minute and tell everyone what you are telling | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
us. Michael, the election all about Brexit. Where are we left? | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
Lee is in the world of fantasy with Mrs May. I support Brexit, but Mrs | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
May will not be able to get it through the Cabinet, through her | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
party, through the Commons, through the Lords. Such it might as well | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
stop talking about it right now. Actually, it doesn't matter what she | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
talks about because she is not going to be Prime Minister for very much | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
longer. How much longer? I would be amazed if she made it to the | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
conference in October. She would even get a conference? I think it | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
would be humiliating to go to conference. I remember Margaret | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
Thatcher went to conference and was cheered to the Echo and was got rid | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
of five weeks later. There is that possibility for Mrs May. I would | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
avoid the problem if I were she, and to not go to conference. So who is | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
on manoeuvres? They are all completely free of charisma. The | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
only person who could lead to the Conservative Party, the only proven | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
winner, is Ruth Davidson. Theresa May is a proven loser. None of the | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
others seem to have very much to offer. And are deeply unattractive | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
to the public. Deeply unattractive. The Tories are in a terrible | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
quandary. The only thing that is positive for the Tories is that | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
Jeremy Corbyn must now be taken seriously. I have a feeling that | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
quite a lot of voters believe Liz Kendall and other Labour candidates | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
at the last election that Corbyn stood no chance and they have the | :14:02. | :14:03. | |
luxury of voting for whoever they wanted because Corbyn was not going | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
to win. But now you have to take a Corbyn Premiership very seriously. | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
The moderates in the Labour Party have to take it seriously, as well | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
as the Tories. Lives, what do you take from what Liam is saying about | :14:18. | :14:18. | |
Brexit? Let's look at it thisway. If May had | :14:19. | :14:30. | |
won, the extreme hard liners would be saying it was due to the view of | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
Brexit. They took responsibility for the win now they need to take | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
responsibility for the loss. I think the first thing that's dead and | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
buried is the idea that no deal is better than a bad deal. I think that | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
certainly if she's going into a deal with the DUP, we are going to have | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
to stay within the customs union because the DUP don't want a hard | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
border, that's for sure. Thirdly, she is going to have to make | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
transitional arrangements because there's no way she's going to get | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
the leave arrangements and the future relationship done within the | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
time available. That's got to be put in place and my preference would be | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
that we stay within the EA so businesses have certainty. I think | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
it's all to play for and I am very pleased that all those people who | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
said that anyone who questioned or challenged anything to do with | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
Brexit and called us Remoaners and enemies of the people, now we have | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
the chance to do our job, which is to hold the Government to account | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
and set out a positive position for the future. Liam, Hammer Halligan, | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
tell everybody what you achieved, you will forever be known as that | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
now, but tell us what you achieved? That was really me that whacked | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
that. I wasn't going to mention that. Michael thinks you are a | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
little off track? That's all very well but I would say what I said in | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
the piece, Labour and the Tories got over four fifths of the votes, both | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
stood on the platform of leaving the single market. If we don't leave the | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
single market... It was very different though wasn't it It's not | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
really Brexit if you don't leave the single market. We voted to stay in, | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
if you remember, the Common Market, back in 1975. The single market is | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
far more integrationist because we have had Nice and Lisbon and | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
Maastricht and the other treaties so it's odd to have another referendum | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
and stay in the single market. If you stay in the customs union, the | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
whole sort of optimistic case for Brexit, trading more with the rest | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
of the world, falls by the wayside because you can't make your own free | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
trade deals with the rest of the world. The EU hasn't made trade | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
deals with anyone in the major economy around the world. I agree | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
with you entirely, it's just not going to happen. You can see what | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
the Chancellor of the Exchequer is up to. You can see the Tory party is | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
not going to wear it. The Labour Party is not to be depended upon. | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
Sure, they'll say whatever they need to. I agree. If we stay in the | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
single market, we are not leaving the European Union really. In | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
fairness, we are faced with a dilemma where the people are asked | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
to vote firstly do you favour Brexit or not. Yes. Second, do you favour | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
hard Brexit, no. That is a difficult narrow channel to go through. People | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
voted for lots of different reasons. The main one that I experienced was | :17:31. | :17:39. | |
about controlling immigration. I'm increasingly hopeful that we could | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
get some changes on migration. We saw one of Macron's senior advisers | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
saying the leave campaign tapped into people's genuine concerns about | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
immigration and that freedom of movement is not indispensable to the | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
free flow of goods and services. So I mean it's all to play for. We | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
should have all the options on the table and I think May's big mistake | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
after the referendum, as I argued at the time, she should have said, we | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
are leaving, but 48% of people voted to Remain, it's going to be | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
difficult and complex, there'll be compromises and trade-offs, and | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
present that to people honestly. Instead she came forward with a lot | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
of sound bites and refused to even involve Parliament. You are sounding | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
much brave after the general election. To be fair on this | :18:29. | :18:31. | |
programme I've had to argue my case for weeks. Not quite as strongly as | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
you are arguing now. You are all very cowed by the electorate and | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
going round... You began every sentence saying, we must respect | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
what the electorate... And in all my election addresses I've absolutely | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
said we voted to leave, we want the best. Respect the vote where you | :18:51. | :19:01. | |
have no control over borders? I want to see freedom of Labour, freedom | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
movement of labour and I believe there is a deal to be struck. That's | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
what I said to my constituents, we want to keep the jobs, trade and | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
investment. We need changes on migration. You are in the hands of a | :19:13. | :19:19. | |
bunch of EU bureaucrats? You are so wrong, Liam. In the end, it's a | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
political decision. If Macron and Merkel decide they have problems | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
with immigration within their own countries and which they do, it will | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
be a political deal and that's what the price is. There's always been a | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
cheat in this which is the claim that the free movement of people is | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
necessary for a single market - it's not. The free movement of labour may | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
be necessary. That's a completely different thing, that's about people | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
moving to jobs. Let me put my two pennet in and say two Conservative | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
Prime Ministers have taken ludicrous gambles, falling unnecessary votes | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
for party political reasons and have left us in a weak and unstable | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
position. What an amazing result. Liam, could the deal look so bad | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
that actually the British electorate would want to turn their back on it | :20:12. | :20:19. | |
anyway? Look, if we make clear that we are going queasy on Brexit, then | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
the EU will, because they want ?10 billion a year net from us, the EU | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
will make sure we get a really, really bad deal, so the public | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
thinks it's absolutely terrible, then we revert to the status quo | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
where we stay within the EU. That's all very well and a lot of people | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
will like that and think they've been very clever around Westminster | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
but there'll be a big swathe of the electorate that will be completely | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
disillusioned with that. What are you going to do over the weekend, | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
tip the lady out of the bed or get a goldfish in a bag? Trying to pop a | :20:55. | :21:02. | |
balloon with a blunt dart. Thank you very much. | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
You can show off in a minute and tell everyone what you are telling | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
Now it's late - running through fields of wheat late. | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
But if the Prime Minister's rebellious days of farmyard | :21:15. | :21:16. | |
frivolity don't fill you with glee, then fear not, | :21:17. | :21:18. | |
because waiting in the wings is broadcaster and historian | :21:19. | :21:20. | |
Dan Snow, here to put popularity in our spotlight. | :21:21. | :21:22. | |
So by all means, be our Facebuddies, join our Twitteratti Instagang. | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
So it seems the nation can now look forward to a coalition of some sort | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
between the Conservative Party and the DUP, thrusting | :21:31. | :21:31. | |
Northern Irish politics centre stage and possibly, | :21:32. | :21:33. | |
if you believe John Major, destabilising the entire | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
So I hope you haven't tuned into This Week | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
for strength and stability, because we're following | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
the Tory rebrand and just "getting on with the job". | :21:49. | :21:50. | |
And if that means the end of austerity, so much the better. | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
It means the BBC can finally afford my exorbitant fee, | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
and we can all enjoy the coalition of chaos that is the big, bad, | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
biased BBC and the shining beacon of solid impartial journalism | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
Here's Giles Brandreth with this week's round up of the week. | :22:07. | :22:24. | |
# Doctor, doctor, have mercy on me #. | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
A week on from the general election and Westminster continues | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
The Prime Minister is still looking peaky. | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
The diagnosis - a severe case of the hung Parliament. | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
This Week can make you feel a great deal better. | :22:42. | :22:57. | |
Our medicine is so alternative, there's no alternative. | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
The Commons returned for the first time this week since the election | :23:03. | :23:17. | |
and MPs re-elected speaker John Bercow. | :23:18. | :23:19. | |
The patient put on a very brave face given her poorly political position. | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
Well, they say laughter is the best medicine. | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
Mr Speaker elect, on behalf of the whole House, may I congratulate | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn has never looked fitter. | :23:33. | :23:43. | |
When he returned to the Commons, he received a standing ovation. | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
In fact, several standing ovations, because later when he met the PLP, | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
no longer a medical condition, it means the Parliamentary | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
Labour Party, they stood and they cheered yet again. | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
In fact, the election has agreed with him so much that he appears | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
to have embraced campaigning as a healthy lifestyle choice. | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
He managed to be quite magnanimous towards the poor patient, | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
It is customary on these occasions to congratulate | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
the returning Prime Minister and I absolutely do so. | :24:17. | :24:18. | |
I congratulate her on returning and I'm sure she will agree with me | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
that democracy is a wonderous thing and can throw up some | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
It's bright orange, but it could see you through. | :24:29. | :24:39. | |
It appears there could be side effects. | :24:40. | :24:49. | |
A consultant from an earlier era, one John Major, weighed in to urge | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
Mrs May to put the Irish peace process ahead of her need | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
I understand why she wishes to shore up her Parliamentary position. | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
That is entirely understandable and I sympathise. | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
But, but my main concern certainly is the peace process. | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
A fundamental part of that peace process is that the UK Government | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
needs to be impartial between all the competing interests | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
The PM needs to get back on her feet sharpish. | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
We want her fighting fit for those Brexit negotiations. | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
But not all of her former colleagues seem to be rooting for her recovery. | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
It's just how long she's going to remain on death row. | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
In other words we could get to the middle of next week and it | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
The last time we saw him was in the operating theatre | :25:47. | :25:54. | |
when he was wielding a knife himself. | :25:55. | :25:56. | |
You can't keep a good Brexiteer down, can you?! | :25:57. | :25:58. | |
Now, are we going to see the return of Tory EU-fluenza? | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
It's important after this general election that we do two things; one, | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
we form a Government which is capable of carrying | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
through the public's wishes, including leaving | :26:15. | :26:15. | |
the European Union, and at the same time we reflect on the fact | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
that we didn't get the majority we wanted and therefore | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
we needed to be a properly in listening mode to appreciate | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
# I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in #. | :26:27. | :26:34. | |
Meanwhile, the pressure has been rising among the Liberal Democrats. | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
Their leader Tim Farron resigned, claiming his Christian | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
faith was incompatible with modern politics. | :26:42. | :26:44. | |
He didn't mention that perhaps some of the voters were slightly | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
disconcerted by being encouraged by him to smell his spaniel. | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
Put us all in the paddock, wouldn't it? | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
I seem to have been the subject of suspicion | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
because of what I believe and who my faith is in. | :27:01. | :27:02. | |
In which case, we are kidding ourselves if we think we yet live | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
And that is why I've chosen to step down as leader | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
Down in the south, Mrs May's Conservatives didn't do | :27:13. | :27:23. | |
too well, but up in Scotland, Ruth Davidson's Conservatives | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
triumphed and Ruth herself is now flexing her muscles as an active | :27:27. | :27:32. | |
Remainer, encouraging an open Brexit. | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
They've said that they want the Conservatives to be | :27:36. | :27:37. | |
in Government, but by denying there's a majority, they don't | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
That means we have to reach out to other people on the big | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
Consensus is a condition that appears to be catching. | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon, having dropped 21 seats... | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
Called for a wee pause in the Brexit negotiations to allow time | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
for the cross party committee involving the three devolved | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
The approach that the Government was taking to hard Brexit I think | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
is dead in the water and cannot stand. | :28:09. | :28:10. | |
I'm calling today for a process that is opened up to include more | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
voices, all parties and all four nations of the UK and an approach | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
that has continued membership of the single market at its heart. | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
If the tonic isn't working, there is one final prescription. | :28:22. | :28:31. | |
Thanks for Oxford Circus surgery for that. With us is former SNP | :28:32. | :29:00. | |
superstar and former SNP MP John Mickologison. Welcome. The biggest | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
groan I've heard from you so far tonight was when I mentioned the | :29:05. | :29:12. | |
DUP, Michael. Why? Well, because I think that much of the electorate | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
will be dismayed at the Conservatives making a pact with the | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
DUP because the only thing they know about the DUP is that it's against | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
same-sex marriage. Given the tremendous progress that the | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
Conservatives have made in winning over the LGBT community, introducing | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
same-sex marriage in Britain, in Great Britain, not in Northern | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
Ireland, it seems a tremendous setback. On top of that, I do take | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
quite seriously what John Major's said. He's right, is he? Well, I | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
mean he could be right, you know. If the Prime Minister were going to now | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
involve all the parties, including Sinn Fein, and if she were going to | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
talk to the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats and the SNP and | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
everybody else about Brexit and if she were going to, you know, then | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
take those discusses over to our European partners, maybe this would | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
all be all right. But, so far, she's not looked very good at talking to | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
her Cabinet, it let alone her party, let alone other party, let alone | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
Europe. So one doesn't have much hope for it really. So what should | :30:21. | :30:22. | |
she have done? She is paying a great price for | :30:23. | :30:31. | |
this. I think she could have formed a minority government. Because all | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
that she will get from the DUP is support for the Budget and support | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
for the Queen's speech and a motion of confidence. And probably most | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
things were available anyway because the DUP does not want put in Jeremy | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
Corbyn who has been a sympathiser with the IRA over the years. So you | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
could have relied on the DUP for that without an agreement. Of | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
course, the coalition of chaos was what the Conservatives were saying | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
you guys would be involved in and yet the reality now is... When I | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
look at May now, she is like a boxer who has been punched to the floor. | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
She has staggered back up, head going round, you are not sure if | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
she's going to fall over when she has another punch. Her weakness and | :31:24. | :31:31. | |
Herb brittleness and her fear and her inability to do what is right | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
now, which is to say, look, the public has voted as they have and I | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
am going to change our approach. We are going to work with other | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
parties, with devolved administrations, we are going to be | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
open and transparent and set out the risks and benefits of different | :31:50. | :31:52. | |
approaches, she has shown none of that. In fact, she came outside | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
Downing Street after the result and pretended it has not happened. We | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
are just going to get on with the job. I think she is not up to the | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
job. She has now made just about managing into a lifestyle choice. | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
Let's talk about the landscape in Scotland. What has happened? We lost | :32:14. | :32:21. | |
quite a lot of seats, as you know. Why? Ruth Davidson has managed to | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
make the conversation about the constitution. We had local elections | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
recently and the leaflets did not mention the rubbish bins, schools or | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
roads. They said, vote for councillors who will stop | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
independence. My local council is not filled with people who are | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
tackling grand constitutional issues. She was successful in that. | :32:42. | :32:48. | |
So what we saw at the general election was people coalesce in | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
individual constituencies round the party most likely to beat the SNP. | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
There were informal pacts across the country. In my own constituency, I | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
did not see a single Tory or Labour poster anywhere. There were no | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
leaflets. They stood back in order to let the Lib Dem candidate wins. I | :33:11. | :33:13. | |
think that happened across the country. So we can say farewell to | :33:14. | :33:25. | |
India to? My idea was or was that we would have a second independence | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
referendum once we knew the details of Brexit. I think the Brexit deal | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
will be a very bad deal and people will feel they were sold a pup. For | :33:33. | :33:38. | |
me, the second independence referendum was giving people a | :33:39. | :33:41. | |
choice. The Lib Dem position is absurd because they say, we want to | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
stop you having a damaging second referendum on independence, but we | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
are happy to have a damaging second referendum on Brexit. You can't | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
complain about other parties making the campaign about what they wanted | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
to be, not what you want it to be about. I am not. I am answering the | :34:00. | :34:06. | |
question. It did not help the cause of another independence referendum | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
in any way, did it? I am not going to argue that. You have people in | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
Scotland, especially young people, passionate about a second | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
independence referendum. You will notice there was no Corbyn bounce in | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
Scotland. The Labour Party did quite badly. We got more seats. We now | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
have a team of Labour MPs in Scotland. You got more seats. That's | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
the name of the game in first past the post. I am painfully aware of | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
what the name of the game is. I am just saying there was not a Corbyn | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
bounce. You do have young people passionate about independence and a | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
lot of especially older voters who do not want a second independence | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
referendum. Scotland is divided. Liz Kendall, talk a bit about Labour. | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
You did lose but everybody feels that you won. In reality, your party | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
has lost again, has come up short, and Mr Corbyn, although he did | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
better than expected, he still lost. He confounded expectations, | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
including my own. I think the campaign was excellent. It changed | :35:17. | :35:28. | |
when the two manifestos came out. I remember being here and saying why | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
didn't you get behind him? I have never seen such a campaign since I | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
was elected. We had better bring in Michael before he goes the colour of | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
his shirt. People with many different views pulls together, | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
certainly in my seat. We went in 20 points behind, expecting to lose | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
seats and we ended up gaining them. But we have not one. Many people | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
would say it was accosted as well. There are a number of things. We | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
have two wins 64 seats to form a majority next time. That is still a | :36:03. | :36:09. | |
big mountain to climb. You make Mrs May sound like a realist. What has | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
happened to your party is it is firmly in the grip of Momentum, and | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
you know better than everybody that these are very nasty people who will | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
drive the likes of you out of the party. They will have you | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
deselected. They will pursue you on social media. They will get you out. | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
You say you were united. You do not believe in this tache in the Labour | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
Party manifesto club renationalising these industries. In my party | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
locally, everybody pulled together. It made a huge difference. Suddenly, | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
you and Chuka Umunna in particular make it sound like the only | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
disagreement you had with Jeremy Corbyn was that you thought he might | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
not win. I have never said that. Your party has been taken over by a | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
very dangerous hard left, people who have sympathised with terror over | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
the years. They are now within a hair 's breadth of taking power in | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
this country and you should be more worried than I am about that. There | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
were two issues. One, whether he could do well in an election, and | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
full credit to him for that. But certainly from conversations I have | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
had with people, there are issues like defence and security that have | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
to be addressed. Michael's essential point is that the party is | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
effectively on the verge of a takeover. I do feel that at all. | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
There are some on the hard left, some supporters of Corbyn who worked | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
their butts off in my campaign and I'm grateful to them for it. His | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
supporters think the Parliamentary Labour Party is the obstacle to | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
taking power and it must be destroyed, and you will be destroyed | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
in the process. I saw you rolling your eyes. We must talk about Tim | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
Farron, the fact that he said he cannot leave the party because of | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
his faith. Bisla. The problem was not his faith, but that he could not | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
give a coherent answer to the question, do you think that gay sex | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
is wrong. The answer is, I think that gay sex is fine for those who | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
want to have it. I personally don't. I am talking about him, obviously, | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
in this instance. For him to try and make himself a religious martyr is | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
absolutely absurd. The thing about it is, I do not want to be tolerated | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
by Tim Farron, thinks I am a sinner and he has to pray for me and | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
tolerate me. I think gay people should be respected in the | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
21st-century, and that is the simple message he got wrong. Can I ask you, | :38:40. | :38:46. | |
when is the next general election? I suspect the Tories are very keen not | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
to have another election. I think Mrs May could be in the rocking | :38:52. | :39:00. | |
chair in the bay window in Psycho being rocked backwards and forwards | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
for as long as they can, because they do not want to go to the | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
country again because I think they know they will lose more seats. | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
Whether the coalition of chaos, with the ghastly, homophobic DUP can | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
survive, as the cliche goes, only time will tell. Thank you, good to | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
see you again. Now, if you've just woken up, | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
welcome to Britain's most reviled political programme, | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
loathed in equal measure It's taken This Week over a decade | :39:28. | :39:28. | |
to approach viewing figures that match Lord Buckethead's modest vote | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
share in Maidenhead, which is why the BBC have approached me, | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
LBC's audience magnet. I'm more popular | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
than Farage you know? Which is why we're putting | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
popularity in this week's spotlight. General elections are | :39:47. | :39:58. | |
popularity contests. In politics, you live by the sword | :39:59. | :40:07. | |
and you die by the sword. But does a popular leader make | :40:08. | :40:18. | |
for a popular party? Labour's Chris Lesley was quick | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
to rain on Jeremy Corbyn's We shouldn't pretend this | :40:22. | :40:23. | |
is a famous victory. It's good as far as it's gone, but | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
it's not going to be good enough. Although elections are fiercely | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
partisan, affection for popular I've never quite forgotten the image | :40:34. | :40:35. | |
of the member for Rushcliffe in the tearoom wearing Hush Puppies | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
eating bacon sandwiches, drinking super-strength lager | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
and carrying a cigar whilst taking a break from a debate | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
on healthy living. And, can a politician be so popular | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
they're able to completely reshape Boy wonder, Emmanuel Macron's | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
brand-new party, appears to be heading for a landslide | :40:58. | :41:04. | |
in the French elections. The significance of | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
this result is clear. But we must show humility | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
and determination. And is Donald Trump still riding | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
on a wave of popularity? We thank you for the opportunity and | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
the blessing that you've given us. Mr President, thank you for | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
the honour to serve the country, it's a great privilege | :41:26. | :41:27. | |
you've given me. It's the greatest | :41:28. | :41:29. | |
privilege of my life. I can't thank you enough for | :41:30. | :41:31. | |
the privileges you have given me. Historian Dan Snow reckons | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
the career of every politician, even the most popular, | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
ends in failure. A gratuitous shot of you with your | :41:41. | :42:02. | |
shirt off. I thought you meant the shot of Michael. Which is more | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
important, for the party or the leader to be more popular? Nobody | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
talks about the electoral system. Ours is fascinating. One of the | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
reasons we have had problems is that we have this presidential politics | :42:17. | :42:27. | |
in this country, as Theresa May fought an incredibly presidential | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
campaign, but we have constituency votes and a parliamentary system. We | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
elect our executive throughout legislature. So that is a difficult | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
question to answer. In France and the USA it is all about the person | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
at the top. In Britain it is unclear, but it is probably more | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
about the leader. Look at root in Scotland, phenomenally popular Tory, | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
but Scottish conservatism, one of the most toxic brands in politics. | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
Probably the leader. So last week, was it that no party was popular | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
enough? That is probably right. And how do you brush up? Is a party now | :43:05. | :43:12. | |
a brand rest room of course. But what is curious is that the public | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
seem less tribal than in the past, so Corbyn's wild swing from | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
unpopular to tolerably popular and May's journey the other way, are we | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
less tribal, are we jumping from... Social media brands, consumer brands | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
are having this problem. In France, they seem happy to dump their | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
traditional parties. Perhaps we are going to see that in the UK as well. | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
Was it effectively like two escalators. Once May started going | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
down it was unstoppable and likewise with Mr Corbyn going up? I think | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
May's confidence must be shot, because I can't think of another | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
example in history. Gordon Brown in 2008, 2010, John Major in 1997, he | :44:00. | :44:09. | |
had been a powerful years. This was almost entirely her fault. Not just | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
calling a snap election by the way was conducted. How do you hide from | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
that? Michael, were you a popular politician? No. Why? People took | :44:19. | :44:27. | |
against me. They thought I was arrogant. I think I was quite | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
frightened actually. When I was interviewed by people like you, I | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
was actually feeling frightened of people thought I was being snooty. | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
Anyway, I am now on my way to being a national treasure, so it ends | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
well. We will also break that. In politics, how do you build | :44:49. | :44:56. | |
popularity? I think you should not seek popularity and I don't think | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
popularity is what it is about. I don't think Ruth Davidson courted | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
popularity. She says what she thinks. And she embodies what she | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
thinks. She believes staff. Corbyn did well because he believes things. | :45:11. | :45:17. | |
Mrs May did not appear to believe anything. Margaret Thatcher believed | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
things, big time. She was not popular but got elected again and | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
again. So popularity is absolutely beside the point. Sticking with what | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
you believe, whatever happens. Why are you in politics? What is it for? | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
It is not just a game. I think it is about authenticity. I am not sure | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
Donald Trump believed anything but he looked authentic. I think May's | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
problem is that she appears quite inauthentic. There I say it, if we | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
are talking about popularity, I think her behaviour towards going | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
down to visit the site of the fire today, that was an astonishingly | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
poor bit of leadership, I think. She didn't talk to anyone, did not seem | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
to talk to any of the victims involved, the families... I can see | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
why she would not want to, but that is just 101, get down there, roll up | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
your sleeves and talk to people. It is like George Bush and Katrina, | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
brutal. Can a politician crave popularity too much and it looks | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
ugly? I think we all can, for sure. I think anyone who has been involved | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
on the dating scene... People can be desperate to be popular. It is like | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
Blair in the last years of Blair, he was not sure why his popularity was | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
slipping and he started to spin the wheels and his grin became fixed. I | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
will make myself popular because I have to say that is it. | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
That's your lot for tonight, folks, and we're calling it a night too. | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
We're not off to Lou Lous, we're not off to Annabel's. | :46:57. | :46:59. | |
Like many of you, we've been shaken by the horror of the Grenfell Tower | :47:00. | :47:02. | |
On nights like these, it's only fitting to applaud | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
the heroism of our fire service and the inspirational solidarity | :47:07. | :47:08. | |
I'm not going to lie, the locals are angry. | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
Lives didn't need to be lost and they are lost. | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
The people are looking for their children and it is so unfair. | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
People have lost their homes, children have seen things. | :47:22. | :47:23. | |
We just need to rebuild as a community now. | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
People that have nothing are here getting things | :47:28. | :47:29. | |
My living room is open for anyone to stay. | :47:30. | :47:47. | |
When a disaster like this happens, guess what, everyone turns up | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
Something bad happens, people come together. | :47:55. | :47:58. |