06/07/2017 This Week


06/07/2017

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Tonight, live from the people's Republic of this week,

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North Korean leader Kim Jong Un test fires an intercontinental ballistic

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missile, his gift to the Yankees on their Independence Day.

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Tim Marshall assesses how terrifying the world is.

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Thanks to the efforts of the great helmsman,

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The Westminster masses march on Downing Street demanding

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Britain's beloved First Lady bring an end to austerity and pay our

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Five Live's Emma Barnett dusts off the This Week credit card.

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Yes, it's time to spend, spend, spend.

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That is, if our Great Leader is OK with it.

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And as This Week decides to ban all views and ideologies

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that do not conform, we turn to Slovenian philosopher

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I will talk about sensitivity with all the snowflakes and so on. The

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only strong person is our eternal leader, Andrew.

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You will watch This Week tonight, with me, your supreme leader,

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Andrew Neil, the greatest propaganda machine ever invented.

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Evening all, welcome to the People's Democratic Republic

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of This Week, the only BBC programme with its own

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And if Donald Trump doesn't come up with that multi-million dollar

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contract for Trump TV, we're going to send one

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Because in these troubled times our role is not to wage war -

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thoough I'm warning you, Trump - but to spread fake news,

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false comfort and fatuous propaganda, so that you can sleep

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It's why we have four billion daily viewers, even though we're

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only on once a week, and a 110% approval rating,

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since the slightest disapproval means the immediate cessation

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It's why we attract the world's greatest talent, such

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as old Choo Choo here, the man who made the

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And Alan Johnson, now on volume 42 of his memoirs,

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whose achievements are legendary, such as...

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It's why I'm your Dear Leader, loved, respected and obeyed by all.

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And it's why my influence is everywhere.

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Last year I was able to insert one of our number,

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the Hackney Madame Mao who goes by the codename Diane Abbott,

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into the heart of Team Corbyn, which is now entirely

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And only today I dispatched our most senior executive in charge of paper

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clips to head up the Ministry of Truth at one of my many

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satellites, which you will know as Ten Downing Street.

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And speaking of futile, I'm joined on the sofa tonight

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by two of the fathers, sorry grandfathers,

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I speak, of course, of Michael #sadmanonatrain Portillo and Alan

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Michael, your moment of the week? You made and a bleak reference. A

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week ago we had an executive producer who is now the Director of

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Communications at ten in Downing Street for Mrs May. It is said that

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rats leave a sinking ship. He is as far from a rat as could be, but one

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has to ask what sort of creature joins a sinking ship? I thought you

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were talking about us as a sinking ship. I think the answer could be a

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sacrificial lamb. That's a mixed metaphor. No, it's a consistent

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metaphor. You wouldn't recognise it, you were too busy interrupting, as

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usual. What creature leaves a sinking ship, a rat? Which creature

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joins one, a sacrificial lamb. Consistent. The focus have been on

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public sector pay, and there was a report today by the Joseph Rowntree

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Foundation that points out that the freeze on benefits that began in

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2015 and is not due to end until 2020, working age benefits for

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people in work, but people out of work also lost ?30 per week off

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their employment support allowance from April. Because inflation has

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come into the system, it means these people, right at the bottom of the

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pile, will see their money go down. The biggest injustice from this

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Government's policy and terms of pay for those at the bottom is not the

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1% public sector pay cap, but the five-year freeze on benefits. The

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lowest paid. Now, we Brits have always

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enjoyed a friendly rivalry with our American cousins,

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who this week were in mourning for the 241st anniversary

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of the disastrous wrong turn they took in 1776, which was always

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certain to end in tears. Yes, no matter how chaotic,

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farcical and unpredictable our politics becomes,

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they're always madder This week, Mr Trump used Twitter

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to declare war on CNN. North Korea could be next, just

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as soon as he works out where it is. Maybe he has, while

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we've been on air. Here's Tim Marshall

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with his take of the week. Mankind stands on the

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edge of a precipice. To put it another way, we are all

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going to hell in a handcart. We've always been going

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to hell in a handcart. And that's because history

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probably isn't linear. There is no endgame

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that we're aiming for. And anyway, compare now

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with previous periods in history, Globally, women's death

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in childbirth, down. Rates of polio, malaria,

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many of the diseases, down. In more and more places,

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you can turn on the tap And the rapid growth

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of young democracies. The spread of democracy

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in the latter half of the 20th century is one of the reasons why

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things have only got better. But since the financial crash

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of 2008 and the subsequent difficulties, there seems to be

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a feeling in the air, even in the Western countries,

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that perhaps capitalism and liberal democracy is not the answer

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to the question how to live. To those who complain about living

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standards now, sure, But relative to the last 10,000

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years, we've never had it so good. Which is why, in this

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age of uncertainty, with the new nuclear threat,

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cyber warfare, terrorism, austerity, when populists from the right

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and left are telling us they have the answers,

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we need to remind ourselves that It needs protecting,

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nurturing, not ripping up. It's possible we are now

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in the most dangerous period But things have been worse,

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and that's why it's worth Tim Marshall has made his way to us.

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Welcome back to the programme. Thank you for inviting me. Just be

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careful to say everything I tell you. Michael, has the world become a

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more dangerous place in recent years? Depends we mean by recent

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years. All of the things that said about recent improvements are right.

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I do think procedures linked with a number of those things and

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capitalism is linked with a number of those. What we are not very aware

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of is that democracy is quite a modern experiment. In 1941 there

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were 11 democracies, there are now may be about 105, which means most

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of them are very young indeed. We have not seen them in operation for

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long enough to know how they will survive. I think the greatest threat

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to democracy is that it causes competing politicians to

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overpromise, and therefore to burden their states with debt. I think we

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have not seen the resolution of that issue. Indeed, in our own country we

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are in a state where both our main parties are talking about certainly

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not reducing debt, probably increasing it. If democracy goes on

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like that, I think it will find itself in difficulty and many of the

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great benefits we have been talking about will also be in jeopardy. The

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world felt a dangerous place during the Cold War, sometimes very

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dangerous, as in the Cuban missile crisis. What I meant by recent years

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was perhaps in the past 10-15 years, as it began to feel more dangerous

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again? No, I think Tim is right. I remember the Cuban missile crisis

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and the Cold War. I remember the turmoil and the constant fear. In a

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way, North Korea, there is not a lot, I don't think, not much chance

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of North Korea launching a nuclear missile attack. But there is a

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feeling that, with Trump at the helm in America, and with the Europe now,

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after Brexit, a little less sure of its future, that that has created a

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problem which will no doubt be reflected. But I think the biggest

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problem, and Tim referred to it, since the global financial crash

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there is a feeling that capitalism has become more rapacious, that it

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is less willing to share out its proceeds, that there are greater

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inequalities. There is a feeling right across capitalist Liberal

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democracies, it's receding a bit, and the threat of Marine Le Pen and

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Geert Wilders in Holland receded, but it is still there and that needs

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to be addressed. But I think Tim is absolutely right, we are too

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reluctant sometimes to actually record the huge advances that we've

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made. But the most recent years don't show a growth of democracy.

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The most recent years are characterised by a rise in

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authoritarianism. The Russian democratic experiment is over, we

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have an authoritarian in the Kremlin. The Turkish democratic

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experiment is coming to an end and we have tired Erdogan in Ankara. The

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rise of China on to the second, on some measures the biggest economy,

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is an authoritarian economy. The rise of the Gulf powers,

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authoritarian states. That is making the world a more dangerous place.

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Yes, but the point of the argument was to look at things in the round

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and realise that the world is not going to hell in a handcart. The

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second part of the argument is to recognise what we have achieved them

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why we have achieved it does need protecting, precisely because as you

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are right, things have been drifting, in this age of

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uncertainty. There are a number of things going on. For once, I

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disagree with Alan Johnson. Marine Le Pen doubled the vote her father

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got 15 years ago. I don't call that a failure. Geert Wilders came second

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in the Netherlands election, and all that is continuing to be on the

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rise, which is precisely why I ended the argument by saying in this time

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of increased nationalism and instability, the answers are not

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with extremists. History has taught us that in uncertain times people

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reach for extremes and the house falls in. This is not a time to go

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to the extremes. These new authoritarian countries, which make

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the world a more dangerous place, although maybe not as dangerous as

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the Cuban missile crisis, but still more dangerous, these are not Onana

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republic, tinpot general authoritarian states. These are run

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by people who actually believe, the Chinese, Mr Erdogan in Turkey, Mr

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Putin, they believe their way of doing things is better than

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democracy. During the period when the Soviet Union existed, it

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appeared democracy and capitalism went hand-in-hand. In fact, they are

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not the same at all and they are almost opposites, because democracy

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is all about the quality and capitalism is all about inequality.

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Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, this oddity is much more

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visible. I think that Alan is right. There is more inequality within

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capitalism. The people at the bottom are better off than they used to be

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but the people at the top are even richer than they used to be. When

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you go to countries like Turkey or Russia and give them a choice, at

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least it is arguable by their leaders that the choice that they

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might feel they are wanting to make, of democracy, is not the best choice

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because it is accompanied by things like inequality and poverty and

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soul. So I think capitalism and democracy together are no longer be

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obvious and natural choice for countries outside the European and

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American orbit. If you look at the success of authoritarians recently,

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Mr Putin has largely got his way. He has a new satellite state in Syria,

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he has his warm water port. The Chinese have become one of the

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world's most dominant economies. Turkey is playing a bigger role in

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the Middle East than ever. That makes life more dangerous. When it

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comes to North Korea, Russia and China sound like the grown-ups. When

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they are saying the way to resolve this is through diplomacy and

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engagement, and using... The Americans tried that for years. You

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have a President in the US to eating all kinds of things. He is always

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upping the ante. In that sense, as on many occasions, in relation to

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Syria, it is China and Russia that seem like the grown-ups in the room.

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And China is very different to the China we remember. They now own

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Volvo who have just decided to make all of their cars Electric. That is

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owned by the Chinese. In the sense of their desire for stability in the

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West, they have moved from the Little red book and Mounsey Tong to

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a situation where they are engaging. One of the stars symbolises the

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capitalists. It's 1.4 well billion patriotic capitalists. China is

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proving wrong the theory that you need liberal democracy to have a

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successful economy. That's quite dangerous. I mean, I happen to

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believe in liberal he democracy, not just democracy, I've been reading

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things that say, no, these are extreme times and we need extreme

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measures. It always goes wrong wrong. As for North Korea, Mr Trump

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has boxed himself in. He said he hasn't a red line. Do you remember

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the tweet when she said, we will build an ICBM. He tweeted will not

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happen. It has happened. His Defence Secretary said unacceptable. You

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argue, what, if it's not acceptable, what are you going to do about it?

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If we have time, Andrew, what they are going to do about it first and

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foremost go to the United Nations They have drafted a resolution. You

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know how this stuff works. It's called an ICBM. Russia say they

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don't think it is, they go not go for it. They will be asked to

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redraft it. They will redraft it and table it. They warned publicly the

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Russians, it if you vote owe we will take unilateral action. Which leaves

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in the air, if it goes through, Mr Trump can say, I did do something

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about it. I've got these great sanctions. I've been strong. If it

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doesn't go through and vetoed he is left with unilateral action. It

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doesn't have to mean military action. It could do. That is

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incredibly dangerous. I think it is dangerous. It reminds me as part and

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parcel of what has been happening to democracies. What we used to say, 15

:17:57.:18:01.

or 20 years, is that democracies didn't go to war. Recently they

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have. Not with each other, yes. Not with each other, perfectly true. The

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United States and Britain and other democracies have again and again

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engaged in military conflict. So I think that is another reason why

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people have felt this loss of confidence in democratic

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institutions. You have a loss of confidence in America partly because

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of the Trump administration, the focus is povg to the Pacific

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hemisphere as it regards the rise of China as the 21st century challenge.

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Europe is in no position to fill the vacuum in Europe left behind by the

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Americans. The Russians wish to recreate they have a grip in the

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Middle East which is still in. A stand off between the Saudis and the

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Qataris as well which will get worse before it gets better. It's not like

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the Cuban Missile Crisis. A lot can go wrong? It feels pretty dangerous

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out there. The argument about we are going to hell in a hand cart in the

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prism of looking at things from the last ten years. Discounting all

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those advances made. I mean Tim mentioned about malaria and diseases

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and clean water. All of that is never reported, but huge advances.

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Great advances for civilisation. I think actually - go on. I made sure

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I have time to finish. What I think is happening is that the Second

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World War a order had a dual polar world, Russia and America. We had a

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uni polar world. That is no longer the case.

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The Russians and the Chinese amongst others will not accept it. Turkey

:19:54.:19:58.

won't accept it, Iran won't. The structure of the western dominance

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is being absolutely challenged and, therefore, the structure is shaking

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we don't know exactly what is going on. That's why it's shaking. That's

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- we are in the middle of the structures being cake shaken.

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Whether it's the World Bank being challenged by the Shanghai Bank. The

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Chinese banks, or whether it's Nato wandering what it will do. The whole

:20:24.:20:26.

thing is shaking. It's why it's a dangerous time.

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I will end on a positive note if you've had enough of me. Quick

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point, firing squad awaits? Bear in mind the positives, yes, individual

:20:37.:20:40.

people and individual things are pretty bad. Overall, I think it's

:20:41.:20:47.

harmful to us to think that they created are terrible and it's never

:20:48.:20:51.

been as bad as this. It's pretty good relative. At a time of foreign

:20:52.:20:55.

policy challenges we have someone in the White House who knows nothing

:20:56.:21:01.

about foreign policy. Someone in Ten Downing Street who knows nothing

:21:02.:21:12.

about foreign policy and icy and in France who knows noes nothing about

:21:13.:21:14.

foreign policy. Thank you for that. Now, it's late, but never too late

:21:15.:21:17.

for a career change late. This week Segolene Royale,

:21:18.:21:20.

former partner of Francois Hollande and French presidential candidate,

:21:21.:21:23.

was made French ambassador Do you think President Macron

:21:24.:21:25.

is trying to tell her something? It's going to mean a lot

:21:26.:21:32.

of travelling between embassies and some pretty

:21:33.:21:35.

lonely diplomatic parties. I do hope the penguins

:21:36.:21:36.

like Ferrero Rocher. Maybe we should send Choo Choo

:21:37.:21:40.

and AJ to keep her company. That would be the caring thing

:21:41.:21:43.

to do, especially since, waiting in the wings,

:21:44.:21:46.

is Philosopher Slavoj Zizek, here So don't you dare Faceblub,

:21:47.:21:48.

wipe your Twitter tears away and get we've been lying

:21:49.:21:55.

to you all for years. You see, nothing you ever see

:21:56.:22:10.

on this programme is original. Put simply, we purloin

:22:11.:22:13.

other people's ideas Our terrible story treatments

:22:14.:22:14.

are lifted from Newsnight, our appalling jokes

:22:15.:22:18.

from the Rochdale Herald. But we're not the only ones

:22:19.:22:19.

living on borrowed ideas. The jackdaw epidemic has reached

:22:20.:22:27.

as high as the Cabinet. Yes, it would seem some in Team May

:22:28.:22:30.

have been pinching policies Plagiarism for the many,

:22:31.:22:32.

not the few! Here's Emma Barnett with her

:22:33.:22:35.

round up of the week. # No money.

:22:36.:22:42.

# No money...#. Can you spare us

:22:43.:22:49.

some change, please? It's for Andrew Neil

:22:50.:22:53.

and the This Week budget - come on! Right, now I've got some money,

:22:54.:23:01.

no more walking for me. The political week was dominated

:23:02.:23:30.

by public-sector pay. The Government is under

:23:31.:23:32.

mounting pressure, including from some Cabinet ministers,

:23:33.:23:35.

to lift the pay cap. Boris, Michael Gove,

:23:36.:23:38.

Justine Greening, Jeremy Hunt, Damian Green have all hinted

:23:39.:23:53.

that there could be Funny that, wasn't it only last week

:23:54.:23:55.

they all voted against a Labour amendment which proposed

:23:56.:24:02.

scrapping the cap? This shop looks good,

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it looks expensive. Keep the change,

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thank you very much. Former Tory Cabinet ministers have

:24:19.:24:23.

weighed in to tell current Tory Cabinet ministers to stop

:24:24.:24:26.

picking on the Chancellor. It is not right for Cabinet

:24:27.:24:32.

ministers to gang up I think it is making his position,

:24:33.:24:34.

which is always very difficult, I would have been horrified,

:24:35.:24:40.

as I say, in my day. It's not helpful to have

:24:41.:24:57.

this out in public. After all, Phil can't be expected

:24:58.:24:59.

to balance the books if he's having to stop and explain the concept

:25:00.:25:02.

of restraint to Boris Johnson. Boris took to the airwaves

:25:03.:25:06.

to praise the Prime Minister. What unbelievable grace

:25:07.:25:12.

and steel she has shown over the last few --

:25:13.:25:19.

Indeed. Over the last few weeks, when things

:25:20.:25:21.

did not frankly look too brilliant. Delivering a stable Government,

:25:22.:25:43.

as she said she would. Austerity is fast becoming

:25:44.:25:47.

toxic for the Government. Concerns over the funding of public

:25:48.:25:54.

services is feeding into outrage Housing Minister Alok Sharma spoke

:25:55.:25:57.

for all of Westminster this week. Mr Speaker, on my visits

:25:58.:26:07.

to the West Way, hearing the harrowing accounts of survivors

:26:08.:26:09.

has been the most humbling The families that I've met have been

:26:10.:26:12.

through unimaginable pain. This is a tragedy that should never

:26:13.:26:25.

have happened and we are determined to do all that we can to make sure

:26:26.:26:29.

that something like this Labour want the scope of the inquiry

:26:30.:26:32.

to be expanded to consider the impact of austerity and some

:26:33.:26:40.

Labour MPs are calling for the chair of the inquiry,

:26:41.:26:47.

Sir Martin Moore-Bick, to resign. But the Government

:26:48.:26:49.

defended Sir Martin. Sir Martin was chosen

:26:50.:26:53.

by the Lord Chief Justice, who was approached to find

:26:54.:26:55.

a suitable judge to do this inquiry and he was selected

:26:56.:26:58.

because of his qualities, his experience and his particular

:26:59.:27:00.

expertise in this area. In those circumstances,

:27:01.:27:06.

it does seem to me, he's an eminently suitable person

:27:07.:27:08.

to do it. This austerity debate

:27:09.:27:11.

is happening against a back drop of the DUP bung -

:27:12.:27:19.

I mean deal, as Jeremy Corbyn Last week, the Chancellor said,

:27:20.:27:22.

"we all value our public services and the people who provide them

:27:23.:27:31.

to us" and went on to laud his own economic record

:27:32.:27:34.

by saying that we had Well, the Prime Minister found

:27:35.:27:36.

?1 billion to keep her own job, why can't she find the same amount

:27:37.:27:45.

of money to keep nurses and teachers in their job who,

:27:46.:27:48.

after all, serve all of us? The PM responded with well-rehearsed

:27:49.:27:54.

lines on Labour's economic incompetence to roars of support

:27:55.:27:57.

from the Government benches. It isn't fair to refuse to take

:27:58.:28:03.

tough decisions and to load debts on our children and grandchildren

:28:04.:28:06.

for the future. ..it isn't fair to bankrupt our

:28:07.:28:08.

economy because that leads to people losing their jobs

:28:09.:28:20.

and losing their homes, and it isn't fair to go out and tell people

:28:21.:28:23.

that they can have all the public spending they want

:28:24.:28:27.

without paying for it. Some MPs were asking

:28:28.:28:29.

where all this tough talk was from the Prime Minister

:28:30.:28:34.

when she was negotiating Arlene Foster got ?1 billion,

:28:35.:28:36.

she must be the most expensive right-winger since Cristiano

:28:37.:28:42.

Ronaldo. How can the card have been declined,

:28:43.:28:46.

we arranged for a platinum limit. Perhaps we could discuss

:28:47.:28:56.

a payment plan? Thanks to Deuxieme clothing boutique

:28:57.:29:10.

in South West London. We're not sure if they ever

:29:11.:29:18.

did catch up with Emma. The lovely Miranda Green

:29:19.:29:21.

Aston is with us now. Welcome back. Why don't I start with

:29:22.:29:33.

you? Is Mrs May going to survive through until the end of the year,

:29:34.:29:37.

because none of the usual suspects seem in a hurry to challenge her?

:29:38.:29:44.

That's true, and there is a sense in which every few days she survives

:29:45.:29:47.

makes her position stronger just because she is the only one

:29:48.:29:51.

standing. There hasn't been a challenge. There is a bit more

:29:52.:29:57.

scuttled back last week than this week about potential challengers, so

:29:58.:30:02.

it seems quite a fluid atmosphere on the Tory benches. But I think they

:30:03.:30:06.

seemed to think it's safer to let her struggle on and deal with not

:30:07.:30:12.

least the uncomfortable beginning of Brexit negotiations, rather than

:30:13.:30:16.

challenge her. So I would say she probably will be around at the end

:30:17.:30:21.

of the summer. There is no consensus on the success. Tory MPs fear a

:30:22.:30:26.

leadership election would trigger another general election and they

:30:27.:30:30.

would lose that. They would not say that publicly but privately they

:30:31.:30:33.

think they would lose another election. That may stop them rocking

:30:34.:30:40.

the boat. It is worth remembering we are only a month from the general

:30:41.:30:44.

election. If we had a change of leadership now people would say,

:30:45.:30:48.

hang on, she fought the election on a personality thing, so we were

:30:49.:30:53.

electing Mrs May and we are sided not to elect her by any kind of

:30:54.:30:57.

majority, so if you are changing the leader you have to have another

:30:58.:31:01.

general election. With the passage of time, that feeling will lessen.

:31:02.:31:06.

In a few months, people will recognise that the Conservatives won

:31:07.:31:09.

the general election and if they want to change Prime Minister, as

:31:10.:31:13.

they did when they changed Cameron for Theresa May, that is possible.

:31:14.:31:18.

What I think matters is that the Brexit clock has started, and

:31:19.:31:24.

supposedly there are two years for negotiations. It seems from

:31:25.:31:27.

revelations made by someone who until recently worked for David

:31:28.:31:31.

Davies that the team negotiating Brexit feel hemmed in by commitments

:31:32.:31:36.

that were made in Mrs May's conference speech, that they are

:31:37.:31:40.

being propelled towards a particular hard to find Brexit by the pledges

:31:41.:31:46.

she made. No European Court of Justice role, etc. It seems to me

:31:47.:31:52.

that quite soon the people doing negotiations will say, three months,

:31:53.:31:56.

six months, nine months has gone of our two year negotiation and we all

:31:57.:32:00.

feel we are negotiating on the wrong premise, the wrong instructions. At

:32:01.:32:04.

which point, surely, they would have to change the person giving

:32:05.:32:09.

instructions. But does David Davis really think that? He sounds like he

:32:10.:32:14.

is on the same song sheet as Mrs May on this matter. He is a government

:32:15.:32:18.

minister with a lovely breezy manner about him and he would betray none

:32:19.:32:23.

of that. But journalists speak to him in private and there is no

:32:24.:32:26.

inkling he is unhappy with the mandate he has been given. The

:32:27.:32:30.

person who worked for him until recently made him sound extremely

:32:31.:32:35.

happy. How does Jeremy Corbyn force an election when the DUP, because of

:32:36.:32:40.

his past associations, regard him as toxic? They wouldn't want him.

:32:41.:32:47.

That's true but I remember Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness, the

:32:48.:32:49.

Chuckle Brothers. That was accepted in Northern Ireland. A guy called

:32:50.:32:55.

James Molineaux, who ran the Ulster Unionists party, when I was leading

:32:56.:33:06.

the union and we were trying to stop the privatisation of the Post Office

:33:07.:33:09.

and succeeded, they were crucial because major had a slim majority

:33:10.:33:13.

which was being diminished by the Grim Reaper. So this deal they had

:33:14.:33:17.

done, scraping the bottom of the barrel, maybe, but there is more to

:33:18.:33:22.

come, and the DUP will assist on lots of things. But how does that

:33:23.:33:27.

help Corbyn force an election? That is his difficulty. There was a

:33:28.:33:32.

debate this week about the women who have lost their pensions, where many

:33:33.:33:35.

Tories were involved in the debate and the DUP made clear that they

:33:36.:33:40.

want to see a resolution on that. At some stage, something will happen

:33:41.:33:46.

that will threaten, even with the DUP support, her majority. So I

:33:47.:33:49.

think Corbyn has to wait for that. I think the question is, Theresa May

:33:50.:33:55.

will not lead the Tories into the next general election. Will she go

:33:56.:33:59.

buy some are, by Christmas, early next year, but one thing is certain,

:34:00.:34:07.

she is going to go. If things settle down, even with the government

:34:08.:34:11.

walking wounded, surviving week to week, there is a pole tomorrow

:34:12.:34:15.

putting Labour well ahead of the Tories, in the Times. How do you

:34:16.:34:21.

sustain that momentum? That is the problem if you can't bring about an

:34:22.:34:25.

election. It is in Labour's interests to get another election in

:34:26.:34:29.

the autumn at some time. That is clear. They are in a higher at the

:34:30.:34:34.

moment. They are, but I don't think necessarily they are the ones with

:34:35.:34:40.

the problem at the moment. I think that the Conservative Party have a

:34:41.:34:44.

Yule threat to their core brand and appeal, and that is much more

:34:45.:34:49.

serious. -- they have a double threat to their brand and appeal. If

:34:50.:34:53.

they lose being the party of the economy, that is a fundamental

:34:54.:34:57.

problem. Secondly, this idea of being thought of as the default,

:34:58.:35:01.

competent party of government, the more that this administration limps

:35:02.:35:05.

on, the more you actually have a Conservative Party slogan for

:35:06.:35:10.

another election which is, everything is appalling, don't let

:35:11.:35:15.

Labour blow it. It doesn't work. So I think the Conservative Party

:35:16.:35:18.

position is much more difficult than Labour's. I think they can sustain

:35:19.:35:24.

this for a while. A variety of Tory voices speaking for and against the

:35:25.:35:29.

public sector pay cap, including from inside the cabinet. That is a

:35:30.:35:34.

sign of Mrs May's weakness, isn't it? Yes, it is a lack of authority.

:35:35.:35:40.

The fact that posterity, which was covered in our little film to go,

:35:41.:35:46.

shows that as -- the entire political debate is being played out

:35:47.:35:50.

on Labour ground. There is this feeling that posterity has gone too

:35:51.:35:54.

far, possibly has been a complete failure. I think the truth is, that

:35:55.:35:58.

if you tried to sustain a public pay policy for a very large number of

:35:59.:36:03.

years, it would fray at the edges. To that extent, the Labour Party is

:36:04.:36:08.

right. It is also true of Mr -- what Mrs May was saying, that if you have

:36:09.:36:12.

no public sector pay policy, firstly you will blow the budget, which

:36:13.:36:16.

would be bad for all of us, and secondly you would actually employ

:36:17.:36:19.

fewer people than you otherwise would do because they would be paid

:36:20.:36:22.

more money. Those are basic universal truths. Tuition fees

:36:23.:36:30.

seemed to be the Tories' Achilles' heel among younger voters and it is

:36:31.:36:33.

not clear what they can do about that. The problem with the tuition

:36:34.:36:38.

fee policy is that tinkering with the terms and conditions and

:36:39.:36:41.

changing the way they operate has undermined consent about the

:36:42.:36:44.

fundamental principle of the policy. This idea of graduates contributing

:36:45.:36:50.

to the costs is well established and has been established right back from

:36:51.:36:53.

when Alan was minister and I was covering the debate in the house at

:36:54.:36:58.

the time. But things like an interest rate of 3% on top of RPI,

:36:59.:37:09.

6.1% is extraordinary. The government is charging 6% on student

:37:10.:37:14.

tuition fees! They have frozen the threshold at which it kicks in at

:37:15.:37:18.

21,000, which should have been rising with earnings. Most

:37:19.:37:22.

significantly, you do not get grants maintenance now come on top of loan.

:37:23.:37:27.

Meaning that poorer students have a shed load of debt. They do not need

:37:28.:37:33.

to abandon tuition fees. Jeremy Corbyn's policy was the wrong

:37:34.:37:37.

policy, a massive middle class hung and not the right way to use public

:37:38.:37:41.

money, but the government are under pressure and they have to look again

:37:42.:37:44.

at the interest rate. They ought to look again at maintenance grants,

:37:45.:37:48.

not loans, and various other things at the edges. I agree entirely. The

:37:49.:37:53.

other thing is that at last, the market has begun to kick in. It is

:37:54.:37:58.

extraordinary that until now students have been charged ?9,000 to

:37:59.:38:04.

go to Imperial, London, or Oxford, or Cambridge, and ?9,000 to take

:38:05.:38:08.

pretty third-rate degrees at pretty second-rate universities. It has

:38:09.:38:13.

been extraordinary that students have not until now protested that

:38:14.:38:18.

they are paying the same amount of money for really good goods and

:38:19.:38:22.

ready bad goods. That is beginning to kick in. You need shorter

:38:23.:38:27.

courses, too, much more technical education, that all needs to come

:38:28.:38:32.

out of this. Allen, one question on Labour. Any evidence that team

:38:33.:38:36.

Corbyn is reaching out to all wings of the party, as opposed to just

:38:37.:38:39.

consolidating their grip on the party? Not that I have seen. And I

:38:40.:38:45.

think the nature of these things, I was just hearing to Mike that in

:38:46.:38:49.

tomorrow's news there is a story about Lucy Anne Burj are being

:38:50.:38:53.

forced to sign a letter of apology to Jeremy Corbyn for saying bad

:38:54.:38:59.

things about him. She once said something. The nature of sectarian

:39:00.:39:04.

politics is that you are constantly looking for purity and constantly

:39:05.:39:08.

looking for scapegoats to sacrifice to the great leader. If they can't

:39:09.:39:14.

get that out of their system, I'm afraid we are back into problems.

:39:15.:39:20.

May be in tomorrow's papers, but as of late this afternoon, not one

:39:21.:39:25.

Labour MP had stood up in her defence. I am sure that will change.

:39:26.:39:30.

I hope it will. Was Jeremy Corbyn forced to sign a letter of loyalty

:39:31.:39:32.

to Tony Blair? Amanda, thank you. Now, are you feeling

:39:33.:39:37.

a bit worse for wear? Is the incessant political

:39:38.:39:39.

pandemonium getting too much? Or maybe you were just on a night

:39:40.:39:41.

out with Mike Ashley of Sports Direct, or worse,

:39:42.:39:44.

work for him. Either way, Boris Johnson knows

:39:45.:39:46.

a thing or two about feeling blue. He's very sad because his

:39:47.:39:49.

Foreign Office nanny doesn't let him Or mount a leadership

:39:50.:39:51.

challenge against Mrs May. So, if like Boris, you're feeling

:39:52.:39:54.

a bit down in the dumps, don't worry, we're here

:39:55.:39:57.

for you and we're putting # Yes, I'm a just

:39:58.:39:59.

little, too sensitive. Big bad John relaxed

:40:00.:40:12.

the dress code last Thursday. THE SPEAKER: Do I think it's

:40:13.:40:18.

essential that a member wears a tie? Rather than celebrating the NHS,

:40:19.:40:22.

the party opposite, rather shamelessly, have tried to weaponise

:40:23.:40:29.

the NHS as a mere political But did it warrant this touchy

:40:30.:40:33.

response from John Hayes on Monday? I ought to say, as a matter

:40:34.:40:40.

of courtesy, I won't be taking interventions from anyone who's not

:40:41.:40:43.

wearing a tie. Meanwhile, far-left French

:40:44.:40:46.

politicians took offence to President Emmanuel Macron's

:40:47.:40:49.

Versailles address on Monday. Was the regal setting

:40:50.:40:54.

was an affront to democracy? He portrayed himself as a sort

:40:55.:40:56.

of a god and we have something against gods and we have

:40:57.:40:59.

something against Kings, Was it grass of the Duchess

:41:00.:41:01.

of Cornwall to snigger through a traditional Inuit throat

:41:02.:41:11.

singing performance in Canada? Sometimes a lack of

:41:12.:41:14.

effort causes offence. Was EU Commission President

:41:15.:41:25.

Jean-Claude Juncker right to get tetchy about the poor turnout

:41:26.:41:29.

for his appearance in I will never again attend

:41:30.:41:32.

a meeting of this kind. Controversial philosopher,

:41:33.:41:42.

Slavoy Zizek, thinks we live in a hyper-sensitive age,

:41:43.:41:45.

so what does that mean for politics? # Yes I'm just a little,

:41:46.:41:50.

too sensitive...#. Welcome to the programme. Why have

:41:51.:42:05.

we become so hypersensitive? First, let me say how grateful I am that I

:42:06.:42:09.

am here with you, our supreme leader. The dream of us philosophers

:42:10.:42:15.

is always to have a supreme leader but signally to give your advisers

:42:16.:42:19.

to control you. Let's go on sensitivity. It's interesting how on

:42:20.:42:28.

the one hand, but it's a limited phenomenon, we are becoming more and

:42:29.:42:32.

more sensitive. Look at this obsession with harassment. It

:42:33.:42:37.

happens to me all the time. You look a woman into the hive for one second

:42:38.:42:42.

too much, it is a visual rate. You use a dirty word, it is verbal rape,

:42:43.:42:49.

and so on. But the key to this phenomenon and we have it at a

:42:50.:42:55.

different level. For example, what fascinates me is that we do not live

:42:56.:42:59.

in an era of consumerism, but strictly controlled consumerism.

:43:00.:43:05.

Beer, yes, but without alcohol, coffee, yes, but without caffeine.

:43:06.:43:10.

Even sex without sex, in some sense. I think that our dream is this type

:43:11.:43:15.

of controlled pleasure, where you avoid any threat. This is why I even

:43:16.:43:22.

find very suspicious, and I am not a smoker, this obsession with the

:43:23.:43:27.

danger of smoking. Many of my leftist friends who are otherwise

:43:28.:43:31.

for free drugs and so on, with smoking, you stop it. And I think,

:43:32.:43:37.

as a philosopher, what makes me really sad about it is what a sad

:43:38.:43:42.

image of our human elation is is implied in this. Other persons are

:43:43.:43:48.

basically viewed as a threat. Although they speak about tolerance,

:43:49.:43:55.

they need -- beneath all this political correctness is terrible in

:43:56.:44:00.

tolerance. It is, remain at the proper distance, don't come too

:44:01.:44:04.

close to me as a briefing, living being with certain desires and so

:44:05.:44:10.

on. But what is so interesting is that this type of hypersensitivity

:44:11.:44:17.

is accompanied by another phenomenon. It is enigmatic which

:44:18.:44:25.

comes first, what even some people now in Germany called the great

:44:26.:44:31.

regression. Here I am, a leftist Conservative. I believe in good

:44:32.:44:38.

manners. I believe in talking nice, gently and in some populist right

:44:39.:44:46.

thinks you can render and now publicly, which simply were not

:44:47.:44:51.

acceptable five or ten years ago. On the one hand, this leftist cultural

:44:52.:44:58.

elite is getting more and more sensitive, which words do you use.

:44:59.:45:03.

They like, Liberal lefties, they like to feel guilty. We no longer

:45:04.:45:13.

use the N-word. I agree with it. OK, Black. No, black is too racist,

:45:14.:45:17.

African Americans. And it goes on. What about those from the Caribbean

:45:18.:45:21.

who are not from Africa? This is what left Liberals love, to feel

:45:22.:45:28.

guilty. This recycling stuff. Did you put your Coke bottles aside? No,

:45:29.:45:35.

but did you put newspapers aside. Of course, you never do enough. I think

:45:36.:45:41.

this is a false option. It is just a shadow of monks more dangerous

:45:42.:45:45.

process which is again the vulgarisation of our lives. One can

:45:46.:45:52.

see how they work together. For example, you remember how the Bush

:45:53.:45:57.

administration, I think, referred to torture as in hardest interrogation

:45:58.:46:01.

techniques. I can predict what will happen. Rape will become an enhanced

:46:02.:46:09.

seduction technique, and so on. So I think I see the danger of political

:46:10.:46:14.

correctness. Of course, I agree with it when it means really preventing

:46:15.:46:23.

brutality, suffering. But political correctness, the waiters practised,

:46:24.:46:26.

its function is to distract from real problems and so on. From actual

:46:27.:46:33.

problems of ordinary working people. That's why I think political

:46:34.:46:38.

correctness is partly responsible for the election of Donald Trump. It

:46:39.:46:43.

symbolises what is wrong with the Democratic party. On that point, we

:46:44.:46:48.

have to leave it there. I don't know why I bothered writing these other

:46:49.:46:56.

questions. I just got one question. A supreme leader does not act like

:46:57.:47:02.

this. You really need an adviser. It was a wonderful answer and I am not

:47:03.:47:04.

at all sensitive. Now, that's your lot for tonight,

:47:05.:47:06.

folks, but not for us. We're off to Malia for Mike Ashley's

:47:07.:47:09.

boozy business bonanza. He's hosting a lock

:47:10.:47:11.

in with all the Z list Even Red Ed Miliband was spotted

:47:12.:47:14.

aboard a flight from Stanstead, lining his stomach with UHT milk

:47:15.:47:18.

so he doesn't vomit in the fireplace Mike has offered us millions

:47:19.:47:21.

of pounds to bring our very own line up of vintage political giants,

:47:22.:47:25.

so we couldn't resist. Nighty night, don't let

:47:26.:47:27.

the G20 celebrations bite. Please join me in

:47:28.:47:39.

welcoming Coldplay. # And so lying underneath

:47:40.:48:33.

the stormy skies...#

:48:34.:48:40.

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