The America Edition This Week's World

Hello and welcome to This Week's World, the last in our series.

We dedicate this programme to a look at America ? its divisions,

its power, and its future at a politically turbulent moment.

After eight years of Barack Obama, has his cautious approach

to military intervention made the world safer?

We spoke to his former Defence Secretary, Chuck Hagel.

And why do racial tensions in the country appear to be

We ask white Americans if they've noticed things

I'll speak to the woman Donald Trump tipped as his

Plus, a novel way to stop violent criminals ? pay them

But first, here's the news you might have missed this week

This is the week it became all about love, and hate.

New stats show that LGBT people are more likely to be

targeted by hate crime than any other group in America.

In the wake of the Orlando massacre, though, here is how people have been

And here is what Internet vigilantes Anonymous did

But in the UK, another senseless murder.

Labour MP Jo Cox was gunned down outside her constituency office.

Known for her tireless work on Syria, Cox supported intervention

in the country's bloody civil war on humanitarian grounds.

Greater intervention is a view shared by 51 US diplomats who signed

a memo urging President Obama to sanction air strikes

Oh, and decision day looms in the EU referendum.

Before campaigning was suspended as a mark of respect,

referendum fever had reached a farcical crescendo

at the so-called Battle of the Thames.

Perhaps this farmer has the right idea.

Our panel today is Mina Al-Oraibi, deputy editor in chief

And Mobeen Azhar, a journalist and film-maker.

I am just back from Orlando, your study that has been the story of the

week. An awful story but as the week has gone on we have found out more

and more information about who the perpetrator was. We started with

this perspective that he was supporting ices and he did this in

the name of global Islamic Jihad or whatever you want to call it --

supporting Isis. But we found out that most likely he was gay and he

was using these gay baiting apps, he was extremely closeted and his

former wife Kim thought that he used to beat her up and drink a lot and

he was not particularly Muslim. We also know he used to be a loner and

go to the Pulse nightclub so he had a lot of self loathing and issues.

What this really tells us is about the character of a lot of these

people and we see these themes again and again. If you were to be cool

about it, he would say he has the character of a loser. Quite often we

paint these people as criminal terrorist masterminds but actually

they are people with huge personal issues. Isis came out and said, yes,

this guy is a soldier of the caliphate. I wonder if, a week on,

knowing he was a closeted gay man, if they had distanced themselves

from that. He becomes less attractive but also lets look at the

facts. This is a man who pledges allegiance is not only to Isis and

Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda, rival organisations. Take this to your

hotel review of the week. This is an odd one. It is a review by a UN

official that frequents Damascus in trying to solve the conflict there.

He has put the review on trip advisor of the four seasons which is

the swankiest hotel in Damascus and also the safest. He had said it was

lovely and the staff tried to do what they can but they are low on

supplies. The irony of that when a town a few kilometres away from

Damascus is dying of starvation because they are under siege, it is

the contrast of what they are doing in Syria. It feels crass. And

detached of the suffering people there. Take this to your crime wake

of the week. This is an issue for avocado lovers. New Zealand has had

a particularly terrible crop of avocados which means the price has

gone through the roof so we have an avocado crimewave! There have been

40 crops stolen en masse and sold on the black market. The police put out

a statement saying that these avocados could be dangerous! This is

terrible news for hipsters worldwide! Anybody who loves

avocados is in mourning! Where is the Mac market? Maybe you have a

dealer. -- the black market. Take is to your anthem of the week, changing

the words. O Canada, the Canadian national anthem, is going to get

revamped if the parliamentarians get their way. They have asked to change

the anthem, a phrase that says all of our sons, to be all of us, so

everybody is included. They tried this before. Yes, in 2010 but the

Conservatives were leading and it got knocked down but in the Justin

Trudeau era, it passed through the lower house and it looks likely be

said it will pass it. -- When Barack Obama was elected

nearly eight long years be a unifying figure over the deep

divisions of race that have riven to the massacre in a Charlston

church, racial tension And that's even before you throw

in the Trump factor. On This Week's World we wanted

to ask white people of their assessment of why race

had become inflamed. It seems bizarre to have

to ask the question. Surveys consistently show that,

while most black people believe race is an issue,

most white people don't, a divergence of opinion that existed

even at the height of the Civil Rights Movement

in the 1960s. Most white people didn't

understand what Martin Luther So I'm going on a journey

into the mind of white America. It could be a bumpy ride according

to talk radio. SPEAKERS ON RADIO: The value

in black life, given the illegitimacy rate,

the out of wedlock rate, is far higher than that of the rest

of the society. The reason people have

children before they marry You don't need to say white lives

matter because white people don't walk up to white people,

put a gun to their head I didn't want to talk to any

African-Americans for this film. Discrimination is obviously a black

issue but when you think about it, And you know it's coming from those

areas, and then the next day, the news will come on and,

sure enough, there was a shooting Because I don't know how

to solve the problem After a while, the race card

has been played so much If you think racism doesn't

exist, you're white. Welcome to white, affluent

Milwaukee, home to some of the most expensive real estate in America,

all groomed lawns and tended yards. But just a few minutes' drive away

are pockets of despair. This is black Milwaukee,

home to 70% of African-Americans Professor Marc Levine

from the University of Wisconsin gave me a tour and explained how,

over several decades, mortgage lenders and estate agents

steered different races to different You know, they could sort of deny

outright racism by simply saying, well, this is just a hard-boiled

economic analysis, that African-Americans are a greater

credit risk and they are not going to pay back these

loans so we are not going A study was done about a decade ago

by the city to look at exactly that issue and they found that a white

household with income around $25,000 a year had about the same rejection

rate for housing loans as a black family with income

over $125,000 a year. And the result of racism in mortgage

lending is segregation and that, in turn, fuels poverty,

poor schools and so on. As investors turn their

backs on black areas, People who don't even live

in the neighbourhood tend to walk through here because it is

pleasant on the eyes But on the other hand,

just up a couple of blocks, especially through the summer,

I can hear gunshots. So if I was to ask you,

what was your view of those African-Americans living in that

area, what would that be based on? Because it's not on

personal contact, is it? Honestly, most of it is based

on what I see on the news which unfortunately

is a lot of negative. What I'm saying is that I'm part

of the problem. Because I don't know how to solve

the problem so what do I do? Do you think a lot

of people do that? These Americans enjoy a privilege,

they can avoid the unpalatable, they live comfortable

lives in nice areas. And the advantages white people

enjoy, the privileges Good morning, Wisconsin,

you're listening to News Radio 620 This is one of the most

important men in right-wing Charlie Sykes has a legion

of listeners and most are white, Did you think many of your listeners

understand the concept I think they've heard the term,

I don't think they fully grasp it, I actually had a caller the other

day who asked me about that And the caller did

a pretty good job. One of the things we are seeing

in American politics is you have a lot of white,

working-class, poor people who do not feel they are privileged

because of their race. So as far as you're concerned,

there is no such thing No, there is white privilege,

there is all kinds of privilege. There is a reluctance to go back

to the racialisation I mean, we do have an

African-American president After a while, the race card has

been played so much that it The election of Barack Obama

distorted the debate For many white people,

it marked the end of America's For black people, his success

actually marked the beginning. And these are some of those

for whom the so-called race card has been played out -

white, working-class males, We won with poorly educated,

I love the poorly educated. Any discussion of white privilege

must account for the problems of the poor and working class

but few would argue it is easier to be poor and white in America

than poor and black. White privilege,

I just don't see it. Helps you see the world

the way we do. There is a growing awareness of how

corrosive white privilege can be. This video caused a storm online

and was produced under the direction of Alice

Hunt and her team. I see confusion and disruption

in my normal way of looking at the world and that is what we

intended to do with these glasses. We wanted to encourage people

to start thinking about what it might be like to be

in someone else's shoes. My journey into the mind of white

America has been an eye-opener. I can now better understand how some

people can blithely be unaware of the racism around them,

be able to push it to one side, push the chaos to the

backs of their minds. But is that an excuse for society

not doing anything? In that film Clive talks

about the white working class and their attraction to Donald

Trump. He's unseated the elite

Republican party establishment and continues to shock them -

appal them even with his response In a moment I'll be speaking to one

of Trump's potential running mates, but first a look at how America's

changing demographics might explain Donald Trump broke from Republican

orthodox in a whole series of ways, not just because he was much more

emphatic on the subject of migration than any other Republican before,

but also because he was willing to defend the social

insurance state. There are millions and millions

of Americans of European descent in the middle of the country,

who feel things are worse for them And they sense the party they look

to as their political protector, In a speech in 1998,

Bill Clinton said the United States was living through the most rapid

democratic transition in the history This change in demographics has

remade American politics, period. After the defeat in 2012,

the Republican Party coalesced around a plan to liberalise

immigration and legalise illegals

in the United States famously known as the Gang of Eight plan

after the eight senators, Democratic and Republican came

together to work on it. It was like Woody Allen's joke

about the restaurant tried to make up for the bad food by making

the portions bigger. Here's an even bigger helping

of what you don't like. Now, Donald Trump is running

into a problem. Which is that the very strategy that

helped him work up those white voters that don't have university

educations, is endangering his appeal to white voters

who do have the university The Donald Trump people point

out he's doing very, very well with the white

vote and then they look back at the past saying,

if only we had the same electorate as we did a generation ago,

then this share of the white vote would be enough to

make him president. But what they don't understand

is a generation ago, The white vote would have been more

divided because this kind of appeal to white consciousness,

that Donald Trump is making, is only effective because of

the very democratic transition that makes the appeal to white

consciousness are doomed Well, Jan Brewer is the former

Governor of Arizona who passed what is deemed to be the strictest

bill on illegal immigrants Last month he hinted he might

make her his vice president. Thank you very much for joining us.

During your time in office you took immigration very seriously and

attempted the nearest thing America has seen to a wall, in essence, to

keep Mexicans out. Talk us through that. We do have along the border

between here and Mexico, we do have some fencing. But Arizona is not

enforced, we need better fencing, we need more boots on the ground, we

need technology down there. Because Arizona has become the pathway for

all the illegal immigration including the drug cartel coming

from Mexico and South America. When Donald Trump talks about building a

wall, or talks about Mexicans building a wall, it sounds like a

feasible idea? It is possible, we are a country and a country without

Borders is like a house without Walls, it collapses. After the

Orlando shooting, we saw Donald Trump's immediate response to what

was effectively domestic terror, was to clamp down on immigrants. He

repeated his call to ban all Muslims, temporarily and banned

those from country with terrorism ties. Many Republicans were shocked,

were you? I believe Donald Trump is taking this issue by the horns and

is going to do what is necessary to ensure the safety of the people of

America. If American Muslims hear this as a rejection of them or their

religion or their way of life, and associate that with the Republican

party, are you happy? It is not against their religion, it is

against the radical Islamic terrorists. They have been

radicalised. It is not the Muslims, we have lots of Muslims through

Arizona and America. But we have been identified as the infidels and

their mission is to kill us. President Obama says that is the

kind of talk that will radicalised Young Americans and Muslims towards

the things you are trying to prevent. They feel disenfranchised

and will go towards the mainstream? I disagree, it is radical Islamic

terrorism. We will not allow the people of Arizona and the people of

Iran America to live in fear. You share a lot of Donald Trump's views

and he has tipped you as a potential vice president. What kind of vice

president would you be, would you like the role? I have not spoken to

him with regards being vice president of the United States. I

indicated, I certainly would be indicated to serve him in any

capacity I could serve him in. What if the established Republican Party

put forward their own candidates at the convention? I don't think it

will happen. If it does it will totally destroyed the Republican

party and the people that have supported him, will leave the party.

What about gun control, after Orlando, many Americans were looking

at the ease with which somebody who has been investigated by the FBI

three times, can walk into a club and injure and kill 100 people.

Arizona has the least if gun control of any state in the US, are you

happy with the way things stand? The background checks run on these

people who commit these crimes, pass the background check. I would rather

be safe than sorry. Thank you very much.

When you win a Nobel prize less than a year into office,

the potential to disappoint is naturally huge.

Barack Obama came signed, sealed and delivered with huge

His foreign policy talk was about new beginning and co-operation.

Nearly eight years on we've asked a former State Department

official, Karen von Hippel, to assess his legacy.

At the start of the Obama administration, expectations are

very high, not just in the United States but globally. He was elected

because he opposed what most considered an unjust war in Iraq. He

won the Nobel Peace Prize coming he gave his speech in carrier, which

was moving and affect did millions around the world. I have come here

to Cairo to seek a new beginning, between the United States and

Muslims around the world. The opening of relations with Cuba is a

success. The Iran nuclear deal is another success and killing Osama

Bin Laden was another success. On the negative side, I would put the

chaos in Libya today, the inability to close Guantanamo be, as he

promised at the start, and the continuing tragedy in Syria. A red

line for us is, we start saying a whole bunch of chemicals moved

around or being utilised. After the aside regime crossed the line by

using chemical weapons against their own people, I do believe he could

have used force to better effect. His legacies will be mixed, he is

cautious and didn't want to get into any unnecessary wars.

Nonintervention makes plenty of sense.

Until it starts to seem like weakness.

Chuck Hagel, a former Republican Senator, was appointed

Defence Secretary by President Obama.

Over his two years he saw massive upheaval in the Middle East,

especially Syria, an issue that saw him resign.

Thanks for your time. Syria and the Syria boat was a turning point for

you and for many. President Obama vetoed your plans to intervene, do

you see that as the right move? It wasn't just a veto, the president

had agreed to go forward and take some action in Syria to fulfil his

own commitment. If a sad used chemical weapons on his own people.

The United Nations found very clearly he had used chemical

weapons, more than once and there was no question about that. I'm not

to go forward and make good on a commitment, I think was the wrong

decision. I do think it hurt his credibility, certainly in the middle

east. When the president of the United States speaks, and when the

president says something, people in the world listen. Not only do our

allies listen, but are adversarial to listen. When you say it hurt his

credibility, do you think it has recovered since then? It is hard to

recover trust and credibility ever. This was not just a casual, flippant

comment, it did mean something. Especially the leaders of the middle

East had some confidence in the President's word, there would be

something done about the use of chemical weapons. What do you think

would have happened in Syria now if you had gone in? We are there,

actually. We are in Syria. In different kinds of operations,

special forces operations, we have been using air strikes along with

our allies, for almost two years. We are clearly in Syria, but you're

bigger question is the question about whether Russia would have got

involved militarily if a different decision would have been made? I

don't know that. I think history will have to play that out.

Chuck Hagel became Washington's main conduit to Abdel Fattah el-Sisi,

the military general who overthrew the first ever

democratically-elected Egyptian president.

Recently, the appalling brutality inflicted on an Italian student

tortured to death in Cairo turned the world's focus

Secretary Hagel, have a look at our film.

The Interior Ministry has called this a smear campaign but I wonder

how America feels, the moral standpoint when you are still giving

financial military aid to Egypt in billions. We fully and completely

criticised and condemned that action. That was very clear. And we

did stop all military sales and all equipment. The United States is

still supporting some of the previous commitments that we have

made over the years to Egypt. If we cut off everything, then what

options does that give us to make some attempt, some effort on the

inside, working with that government, to try to make it better

for the people? The human rights violations are terrible, we have

said that, we have been clear about that. I want to look forward now.

Turbulent political times. As a former Republican senator, do you

lean these days towards the Republicans or the Democrats? As a

former Republican Senator, I don't know what my party is today that I

out in. It is not the party that I started with, not the party of

Eisenhower and Reagan and Bush senior and others. What will come

out of this election, I don't know. But I do think one thing is rather

clear, certainly about the Republican party. It is in the

process of this churn and a different kind of party will emerge

over the next four years. Thank you. How about just paying

the criminals not to re-offend. I think about who these young

men are and I think, they've got to be involved,

rather than get this Frankly, they're not ready

for a job. When you dig a little deeper,

what you learn is they don't even The way that it works is, after six

months of their 18 month fellowship, they become eligible

to receive this cash. It translates into a 75% reduction

in firearm-related murders. This about keeping young men alive,

this is about stopping shootings. Everything else we've tried has

not been successful. We're spending $400,000 every

time a person was shot, 400,000 for every young man

that is shot. $9,000 for every young man

who decides to stop. I will let you ponder that for a

moment. A lot hangs in the balance

this week for the UK - and indeed for Europe ?

with the imminent referendum Last week Sweden's Foreign Secretary

told me the Union would We'll hear in a moment

from a Brexiteer who believes it First, I asked former

Nato Secretary General and former what he thought Brexit would mean

to European security. In the worst case there is a clear

risk that this would unravel the European Union and we would revert

to a renationalisation of policies in Europe. We would revert to a

situation before we started the European project which eventually

became the European Union. Does the prospect of Brexit, do you believe,

leave Nato more or less vulnerable to Putin's ambitions in a former

Soviet space? There is no doubt that if the UK were to leave the European

Union, it would be strongly applauded in the Kremlin because the

Russians and possibly other aggressors would consider it a

weakening of the West in the community as such. -- Weston

community. I fully respect that this is a decision of the people in the

UK but, seen from abroad, from the perspective of a former Prime

Minister of a small European country, Denmark, and a former Nato

Secretary General, I would call Brexit completely irresponsible. And

if the response to that was that we don't really mind if the EU breaks

up, there is no great love for that institution any more, what would you

respond? My clear response would be that you should look at the

interests of the UK when you vote and it is in the interest of the UK

to maintain a European integration, to keep European countries on the

path we pursued after the Second World War. And I do believe it is in

the interests of the UK to stay within the EU. Economically because

you are dependent on trade with European Union. Politically because

you should have a seat at the table where the decisions are made. And

finally also because of peace in Europe.

Will Europe really turn their back on the UK if we vote to leave?

Crispin Blunt is Chair of the Foreign Affairs Select

Committee and has been listening to the interview.

A weakening of the Western alliance, that was the point that a former

head of Nato made. There were some element missing in that

presentation. What I would say is that we sit half in and half out of

the European Union, not really committed to the whole institution.

Actually the effect is that our European partners cannot get on with

the necessary integration to make it work and we are left with a

permanently defensive positions in the world, stopping them doing what

they want to do. The ironic effect of the UK leaving would actually be

to make the creation of a European defence identity much more likely.

Are you talking about an EU army? If that is the direction of travel that

our partners would like to go on. It is the policy of Germany and Spain

to go in that direction and the desire of the commission to create

this capability. It is one of the points of abuse sometimes put out by

colleagues on the Leave campaign saying you would be checking in for

a Euro army if the United Kingdom remains. There are a lot of

assumptions about what Europe would do without us but bluntly Rasmussen

has said it would be irresponsible to vote for exit. I don't think he

has thought the implications through. We have got to address the

necessity, sunken invocation to make the Eurozone work and proper

democratic accountability and they to have to have to address these

issues to make the EU and effective and more integrated institution and

frankly our petition, it doesn't help. Thank you.

Well that brings us to the end of our series.

Don't worry, we'll be selling off the orange lamps

See you next time round and thanks for being with us.

And did I mention he wrote some books, too?