16/11/2017 Thursday in Parliament

Hello and welcome to the programme.

Coming up...

More controversy in the Commons

over Universal Credit,

as the government's urged to listen

to those who want payment times cut.

We can't all be wrong. The six week

weight must be reduced to one month.

Work should always pay and that is

the principle that underlies

Universal Credit.

MPs denounce an inquiry

into a controversial pregnancy

test as a white-wash.

And demands for action to tackle

antibiotic resistance.

We must start with a public

education programme to manage

expectations and highlight the

issues of inappropriate use and to

frequent use.

But first, the Labour MP who chairs

the work and pensions committee says

Universal Credit is becoming

a "personal nightmare"

for constituents.

Frank Field was opening a debate

in the Commons calling

on the government to urgently reduce

the initial six-week wait

for payment to four weeks.

The new benefit is meant to simplify

the welfare system and encourage

claimants into work.

It's being rolled out

across the country, but many Mps

have expressed concern

that the switchover is leading

to debt and rent arrears.

Frank Field had one example.

It was of a gentleman

who had waited, waited

and waited for an operation

at our local hospital.

That operation was taking place

when he was told to turn up

for an interview at

our Job Centre Plus.

He was sanctioned.

A friend befriending him reported

yesterday that this constituent

of mine is now homeless

and while being homeless,

struggling to recover from surgery.

Can he help me in this respect,

when I met with the citizens advice

bureau, because we have

Universal Credit being rolled out

in July, they are now making

arrangements with all relevant

authorities so that these very

examples don't exist.

My real question to the right

honourable gentleman is did these

constituents come to him at the end

of this ghastly process or earlier

on because if they'd come earlier

on, we as MPs all have exactly

the access to speed it up

and would he agree that we should be

doing this now before it comes out

in our areas?

I couldn't agree more,

although being here a little longer

than the right Honourable Lady,

I never thought as an MP I would be

speaking like this about this,

of my job being adapted in this way.

Croydon was one of the first

boroughs where Universal Credit has

been rolled out so we've had longer

to see what a total and utter

disaster it's become.

But I've had a long and growing

stream of people coming

into my office, many of them close

to tears because Universal Credit

has forced them into debt, made it

harder for them to stay in work

or left many of them facing

eviction for rent arrears.

Our local council has had to spend

£3 million so far to stop people

being evicted because of late

payments for rent.

Local food banks are running out

of food because of the vast increase

in people having to go

there going hungry because of

what the government's scheme has

done to them and there are thousand

tenants in Croydon now who have rent

arrears of over three months

and are at risk of losing their home

because of the failures

of Universal Credit.

I'm calling for the government

to cut the waiting time

for Universal Credit

and cause the roll-out.

for Universal Credit

and pause the roll-out.

Glasgow will be the last major city

in the UK to be subject

to the roll-out but before that,

how many thousands of families,

children and vulnerable people

will have to suffer and starve

before it gets to that point?

If a tenth of the resource

that is put into chasing benefit

fraud was put into chasing tax

avoidance, how much more resource

could support working people

and enable them to work rather

than cut off back lifelines?

I am firmly of the view,

as I believe are most people on both

sides of this House,

that work should always pay

and that is the principle that

underlines Universal Credit

and the passion that there

is on this side of the House

to ensure that more people get

into work, are supported

into work and once there,

get on and get ever more work

in terms of hours and in terms

of quality of work.

Members on all sides of this House,

the cross party work

and pensions select committee,

appears, charities,

the Children's Commissioner

and most importantly of all,

our constituents,

have raised concerns.

We can't all be wrong.

The six weeks wait must

be reduced to a month.

Down the corridor, peers, too,

were debating Universal Credit.

Labour's Lady Hollis said

it was having a "catastrophic"

impact on many claimants.

Many, I fear, will never get

out of the net we have

constructed for them.

Family members themselves struggling

trying to support other family

members as one sister said,

it's the poor that are

supporting the poorest.

Over a quarter are waiting

more than six weeks

for their initial payment.

One in ten for more than ten

weeks without earnings,

benefit or savings.

Pawning their belongings,

missing arrears.

Charity workers finding a fiver out

of their own pockets to put back

on the meter for some

lighting and heating.

And all of them facing Christmas.

Of course I'm as concerned

as anyone else in this

about the glitches in the workings

of the system involved.

It's not be amazed about,

it's the certainly worry about.

But look at the glitches we had

in the IT systems we had

throughout Parliament

and throughout this government.

They are being tackled,

these are being tackled

and they will be overcome.

One young mum visits

Saint Aidan's church kitchen

in Hartlepool with her disabled son.

She was moved onto Universal Credit

and waited several

weeks for her money.

She told one of my clergy

that she took paper

napkins from McDonald's

because she was unable

to afford toilet paper.

Her son's condition means

that he wears nappies,

which she was also unable to afford.

Can any of us here imagine

the stress and indignity

of such a situation?

Despite now receiving her money,

the majority of her payments go

towards her rent arrears,

so she's still dependent

on Saint Aidan's for a meal

and food each week.

Hers is one of many stories

of families and individuals falling

down the slippery slope of rent

arrears, personal debt,

eviction and homelessness.

It's too simplistic, however,

to say that UC alone

pushes families into debt.

In many cases it exacerbates

existing personal debt

and makes that debt almost

impossible to escape.

This is particularly

acute in the north-east.

In Hartlepool, Gateshead

and County Durham, more than 30%

of adults are indebted and at least

three months behind

with their bills compared

to a national average of 18%.

This will only intensify as payday

loan sharks and doorstep lenders

increase their worth

and their profits.

Back in the Commons, at the end

of MPs' debate on the subject,

the minister said Universal Credit

was being rolled out at a measured

pace over nine years with frequent

pauses in the process.

Universal Credit is a vital reform,

it changes how we support people out

of work and in work and how we help

them progress from

one into the other.

It is a lot of change,

a new benefit, the new IT system,

a new operational system,

new ways of working with partners

and yes, that does bring

with it some challenges.

We will continue to work

with claimants, with stakeholders

and partners, with honourable

and right Honourable members

across the House to resolve these

challenges as they arise and improve

Universal Credit as it is introduced

across the country.

At the end of the debate,

MPs voted without a division to call

on the Government to cut the time

claimants have to wait before

receiving their first

Universal Credit payment.

After the vote, Frank Field said

the Work and Pensions Secretary

should come to the Commons on Monday

to explain what the government

would do now to reform the benefit.

The Deputy Speaker, Eleanor Laing,

said she was sure that Ministers

would "note" the MP's request.

The Prime Minister has

announced that Parliament

is to have an independent grievance

procedure to deal with complaints

about harassment and abuse.

The Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom

told Mps that a working group had

been set up to decide how

it will function.

MPs hoped the new system would

ensure justice for parliamentary

staff and politicians.

The working group has agreed that

a new system should provide support,

advice and action on a wide spectrum

of complaints around willing

bullying and harassment.

We will do everything

in our power to ensure

the solution is transparent,

fair and effective.

And this fairness must also apply

to MPs and peers because we do

recognise that right across both

houses we have many model employers

who genuinely care about and look

after their staff extremely well.

We all want a robust process that

has the confidence of everyone

but it is only when it is tested

that we will know whether it is

robust enough so that everyone can

work safely in this amazing place

for the good of our

constituents and the country.

There needs to be absolutely zero

tolerance for any abuse

or inappropriate behaviour and that

all means are deployed not just

to tackle the current issues

that have been presented

but the historical patriarch

and cultural hierarchies that have

been allowed to develop in this

House which have gone unchallenged

in the past and we all agree

that there needs to be a safe place

for anybody to raise

any harassment issues

and that is the objective

of this group.

I welcome the statement and having

just quickly read through it

as well as listen to it I notice it

doesn't say the word sexual

harassment in it once

and I would like to put weight

behind what the shadow deputy

leader said in encouraging

the leader to make sure

that there is a specialist sexual

violence service that is giving

advice to the working group and also

then in place for people in this

place afterwards and to urge that

mediation in cases of sexual

harassment is never appropriate.

The parties keep on stating

that they must have their

own party procedures.

There is, however, I think

as we have seen over the last

few weeks a real issue

here where what you get is parties

acting and let's say for example

suspending the whip from a member

of Parliament but they either member

of Parliament and they carry

on with duties and responsibilities

here in the House.

The question therefore is how swift

and how co-located can that process

be with what goes on in the House

in terms of investigations?

Because members of Parliament stand

accused and the longer this goes on,

the more difficult it becomes

to both do their jobs or should

they be doing their job?

And I would like her

to look carefully at that.

My right honourable friend raises

a very important point and one

that the working party has certainly

acknowledged needs to be resolved

and he's right that it is difficult

if somebody stands accused to be

very clear where there's party

procedure that may make a decision

to take action on the whip

and an ongoing grievance or indeed

criminal procedure in another area

of either policing or with this

grievance and complaints procedure.

You have to have

justice for both sides.

If we just have trial

by the newspapers or trial by front

page, that is not justice

for the young people or the people

who feel they have been abused

and make allegations nor is it

justice for those at the other end.

I remember in 2003 a journalist

from the Mail On Sunday coming up

to me in the Stranger's bar

and saying "We're all taking bets

on when you commit suicide.

I hope it'll be before Christmas."

I'm so sorry to hear that and,

you know, I really sympathise

with the Honourable gentleman

on that last point.

That is really, truly appalling and,

you know, we all the nice

there is a challenge

here with living in the public eye

and often unfortunately allegations

which are either spurious or indeed

malicious or designed to hurt can

be made at individuals

and that's not right.

MPs have denounced an inquiry

into a controversial pregnancy test

as a whitewash and a cover-up.

This week, a major scientific

review of hormonal tests,

including Primados, concluded

that they did not cause

major birth defects.

The tests were widely used

in the 1950s, 60s and 70s.

The inquiry was set up

after a long-running campaign

by parents whose children suffered

heart problems, missing limbs,

spina bifida and other conditions.

In the Commons, the minister

recognised that the conclusion

was not what campaigners

wanted to hear.

Available relevant evidence

on the possible association has been

extensively and thoroughly reviewed

with the benefit of up-to-date

knowledge by experts

from the relevant specialisms.

The evidence which has been reviewed

by the expert group will be

published in the New Year once it

has been rightly checked in line

with legal duties and data

protection confidentiality.

In addition to the overall

conclusion, the expert working group

has made a number of recommendations

to safeguard future generations

through strengthening the systems

in place of detecting,

evaluating, managing

and communicating safety concerns

with use of medicines

in early pregnancy.

While I recognise the conclusion

of the report will be

a disappointment to some,

I hope they will see

the recommendations as positive.

I am so disappointed

with the minister's response.

Clearly he is just quoting

what his staff at the Ministry

have been telling him.

I do wish the Minister would

actually go through the document

that was submitted to the enquiry,

the document we have,

because if he has read those

documents, he would never have come

to the despatch box

and said what he has said.

I'm not just quoting notes

that are put before me.

I'm quoting evidence from an expert

working group, an expert panel,

and it really would come

to something if members in this

House suddenly started

to second-guess expert scientific

and medical evidence so I'm not just

quoting what's before me.

On Friday, two constituents came

to my surgery to speak

to me exactly about this.

The mother had taken one of these

pills and her daughter

was born with deformities.

Can I suggest, it's not

the Minister's report,

he's just giving us his explanation

and he's doing his job,

but could I suggest

that we have a proper backbench

debate about this the exercise

all these issues because with great

respect to this working party,

having had some experience

as a former public health minister

and knowing about contaminated

blood, I'm afraid to say I smell

something like a very large rat

in all of this and I think

there have been cover-ups in it.

The conclusions don't take away

from the suffering experienced

by the families but we recognise

the review's conclusion may be

difficult to accept by the families,

of course we do, and birth defects

occur naturally in up to four

in every 100 babies and a birth

defect in a baby exposed

to a medicine during pregnancy does

not necessarily mean

it was caused by the medicine.

There were complaints, too,

about how the public release

of the report was handled.

Does he think 24 hours

is a reasonable period of time

to ask a family to travel to London

from quite a rural

parts of the country?

Does he also think it's appropriate

that the Honourable Lady

for Bolton South East and myself

were locked out of

the press conference

that the MHRA held yesterday?

That in itself smacks of a cover-up.

The Honourable Lady's

point about the notice

the families were given,

no, I don't think it's good enough

and I and my honourable friend

in the other place has made

that crystal clear.

There was some notice given

to Mrs Lyons on Friday last week

that there was likely to be an event

on Wednesday but that was confirmed

until Monday so that was the notice

that they got and no,

I don't think that's good enough,

I've made that very clear.

As far as her and the Honourable

Lady who chairs the all-party group

being locked out the group,

I cannot imagine how

that happened and again,

I have explained to the MHRA that

I expect them to look into that

and come back to me and explain

to me how that could have happened

to cause while we may disagree,

I can see how that merely feeds

the conspiracy theory that's

around this subject.

Steve Brine.

You're watching Thursday In

Parliament with me, Alicia McCarthy.

We could be facing a return

to the "medical dark ages"

unless action is taken to tackle

antibiotic resistance,

and to get people to use them

only when appropriate.

That warning came as MPs

held a debate to mark

Antibiotics Awareness Week,

and following the launch last month

of Public Health England's Keep

Antibiotics Working campaign.

It's warned that antibiotic

resistance, known as AMR,

already represents a major

global health issue.

In the UK alone, it is

estimated that every year

at least 5,000 deaths result

from antibiotics

no longer working

for some infections.

If we do not act now,

antimicrobial resistance will be

responsible for ten million

deaths per year by 2050.

This is more than the worldwide

number of people who were killed

by cancer in 2015.

We run the risk of returning

to a medical dark age,

where routine operations, such

as hip operations, cannot be

carried out, and standard infections

today, become deadly.

The Chief Medical Officer,

Professor Dame Sally Davies,

has rightly described

AMR as a catastrophic threat.

She has warned of a post-antibiotic

apocalypse, where 40% of the

population die prematurely from

infections that we cannot treat.

In her view, this could amount

to nothing less than

"the end of modern medicine".

Labour's Julie Cooper said

antibiotics had often been

used inappropriately,

especially in agriculture.

We will start with a public

education programme,

to manage expectations,

and to highlight the issues of both

inappropriate use,

and too frequent use.

The Health Minister, Steve Brine,

highlighted the importance

of public awareness.

AMR is a global problem. The UK has

led the way and made significant

progress, but this is clearly a

long-term serious and urgent

problem. Initiatives I think such as

World Antibiotic Awareness Week are

very welcome, it gives us an

opportunity to continue to discuss

things, gives them a media hook to

hang them on, and keep them high in

the minds of people across all

sectors, and vitally, across members

of the public. A recent study

revealed an increase in the number

of girls admitted to hospital for

self harming over a three-year

period.

In the Lords, people wanted

to know how the problem was being

addressed.

They are

non-stigmatising, and easily

accessible. However, I visited an

area yesterday, where I was told

that all the school counsellors have

had to be sacked because the schools

cannot afford to pay them. So, will

be minister work with the Department

for Education to ensure that, by the

end of this Parliament, every

secondary state school in this

country has a cool councillor?

Bullying in schools can start very

early, and it can give rise to

severe mental health issues. Would

you also agree that schools struggle

to deal with this issue, partly

because they are unclear about how

to balance their duties of care to

victims and to perpetrators who

often have issues of their own?

In

the end, it actually comes down to

behavioural policies. Schools with

very robust behaviour policies, fair

and robust behaviour policies, do

not tend to see bullying. Those who

are more lax on it do, and so first

and foremost it is about making sure

that teachers have the training and

support from the Government and

parents that they need to crack down

on that. Bullying has also moved

into different domains, particularly

online. You may have seen that his

Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge

is today launching some actions on

cyber bullying, so dealing with

bullying is a big part of that, and

I completely agree with her about

the importance of starting hourly.

The Government's on research, most

notably commissioned by DWP,

conclusively showed a causal link

between young people's internalising

problems such as self harm with

conflict and -- in their parents'

relationships. Will this evidence be

acted on in the forthcoming Green

paper on children and young people's

mental health?

The Department for

Work and Pensions has a cross

Government support for parents. I'll

salute the best community health

services and schools work to provide

that support, with a number of

parenting programmes out there, and

I can assure him that that evidence

absolutely takes proper place in the

mental health strategy we will be

publishing for children and young

people.

Lord O'Shaugnessey.

MPs are to hold their third day

of the detailed consideration

of the EU Withdrawal Bill

on Tuesday next week.

The government has promised 64

hours over eight days

for this stage of the bill.

It completed its first two days this

week without amendment.

..whether whe committee

stage of the whole House

will be completed before

the Christmas recess

on the 21st of December?

And will it be in

the other place

before the Christmas recess?

I know that my friends

in the other place are

very keen to help out.

She will be aware that

the usual procedure,

because it is difficult to project

forward with absolute certainty for

a lengthy period of time,

so we will continue to update

the House in the usual way every

week with future business,

as far as we are able to do so.

The SNP's spokesman reflected

on news from outside the chamber

while Parliament had been

away for a brief recess.

It has only been a couple of weeks

since the last

Prime Minister's Questions,

but I suppose two weeks in politics

must seem like an eternity for this

Government.

In that time, they have managed

to lose two members of the

Cabinet, and the Brexit Civil War

now raging would actually put

the Roundheads and

Cavaliers to shame.

But, fear not, the Environmental

Secretary has apparently been

auditioning for the role of

Chancellor at Cabinet meetings, by,

according to his colleagues,

using lots of

"economicky words,"

so all is not lost.

Well, there'll be plenty

of "economicky words" next week,

with Philip Hammond giving his

Budget on Wednesday.

A Conservative MP has

made his maiden speech.

David Duguid was one of only two MPs

elected this year yet to make

a speech in the Commons.

As is tradition, he praised his

constituency, which he said

was a great place to live and visit.

Our coast, across the north-east

of Scotland,

is like no other in the

British Isles.

Rugged cliffs, home

to a wealth of birdlife,

including, for information,

Scotland's only mainland gannet

colony, at Troup Head.

We're all coming to visit, then!

You're all most welcome!

Our shoreline is also

regularly visited

by porpoises, dolphins,

and even the occasional

humpback or killer whale.

Former Metropolitan Police

commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe

has taken his seat in the House of

Lords.

Lord Hogan-Howe was flanked

by supporters Lord Alton

of Liverpool and Lord Dholakia

as he swore the oath

of allegiance to the Queen.

Lord Hogan Howe retired as the head

of Britain's biggest police force

earlier this year after five years

in the post, he will sit

as an independent crossbencher peer.

And that's it from us for now,

but do join me on Friday night

at 11:00 on BBC Parliament

for our round up

of the week at Westminster,

when among other things,

I'll be chatting to Conservative MP

Sarah Wollaston, the new elected

chair of the powerful

Commons Liaison committee.

But, for now, from me,

Alicia McCarthy,

goodbye