Highlights of proceedings in Parliament on Thursday 15 March including a debate on the Airports National Policy Statement, presented by Mandy Baker.
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Hello and welcome to the programme.
Conservative MPs demand ministers
stand up to the EU on the vexed
question of fishing after Brexit.
The Armada of trawlers who have been
hit plundering Britain cosmic
historic oozing ground are not going
to be happy that their best years
are behind them. -- Britain's
historic fishing grounds.
The doors to flats in
Grenfell Tower are found to have
failed a police fire test.
When tested by the Metropolitan
Police, the door failed after 15
And a former cabinet minister
questions if a fellow peer is right
to play host to the founder
of a far-right group.
At a time when there is an increased
risk of relation to hate crimes.
Of the many questions
surrounding Brexit, one
of the main ones concerns fish.
Conservative MPs have been pressing
the government not to agree
to the EU's demand that the bloc
should still have the right to fish
in UK waters after Brexit,
in return for tariff-free access
to the European market
for British goods and services.
In its latest version
of the Brexit agreement,
released on Thursday,
the EU has added in "opportunities"
for the UK to "comment"
on fishing quotas.
One Conservative believed people
would unite against the idea
of continued access to UK waters:
Well, while fish largely
Remainers and believers are united
at the very worst aspect of our EU
membership is the common fisheries
policy and when we leave the
European Union, we leave the common
fisheries policy will stop on that
day, the Armada of EU trawlers that
have been plundering Britain's
historic fishing grounds since 1973
are not going to be happy that their
best years are behind them. Can we
ensure that the Royal Navy has the
resources it needs to protect our
sovereign waters and ensure the
rebirth and the renaissance of the
British fishing industry.
disappointing to see an aggressive
line in that document about
maintaining access to fishing
waters. I want the department is
robust on the behalf of my
Northumbrian fishermen to ensure we
regain control of our fishing waters
afford the sighting who else
It was a very odd
linkage to make as well. The simple
truth is that when we leave the
European Union, we will be an
independent coastal state. As a
result, we will control our own
waters. There will of course be
continuing negotiations between
neighbouring states because this
move about cats and quotas and the
rest of it.
When we leave the
European Union will my friend
confirm that he will not give free
and unfettered access as is demanded
currently by the European Union?
the Secretary of State and I have
but said, we will be leaving common
fisheries policy and take control of
our waters. I would just say to him
that my experience of fishermen is
that they do wish to have access to
European markets and I think we need
to approach the fisheries
negotiation in the same constructive
spirit as other parts of our
negotiation but yes, we will be
taking control of our waters.
While fish largely ignore
national borders, that's not
always the case with MPs
- especially when that border
is the one between Northern Ireland
and the Republic.
The Government's committed
to avoiding what's known as a
"hard border" after Brexit.
But some MPs questioned
whether that's really plausible.
Given that the Government have said
that the border will remain
frictionless and that there will be
no border in the Irish Sea, the
question many of us continue to ask
is, how can this happen?
government has made clear its
unwavering commitment to three
guiding principles in relation to
Northern Ireland and Republic.
First, there should be no hard
border, North and South. Belfast
agreement must be honoured and
thirdly that the Constitution and
economic integrity of the United
Kingdom remains unimpaired and the
Prime Minister has set out most
recently in her speech how that
might be achieved. And also,
building on the options set out in
the August position papers which
sets out practical options how we
might take this forward.
much more than just the movement of
goods or services. It is about the
cultural issue. It is about the
movement of people. It is about all
of that any symbolism of is enormous
and the Minister needs to ensure
that that is recognised time after
time in all of the talks that she
has to reassure the people of both
parts of Ireland.
I don't think that
Ministers quite appreciate the level
of concern that there is across the
House on this issue. Whenever I
visited the Irish border, I've come
face-to-face with the reality of
what the installation of any cameras
or any infrastructure would mean him
and it would not last a day,
Minister. It would not last a day.
Why won't the Secretary of State
even visit the borders so that he
can appreciate why people are so
The Secretary of State
has also been to the border prior to
his appointment to this position and
is very much apprised of the
sensitivity and importance of the
Mr Speaker, I think
that says all we need to hear. How?
How, that is what we want to know,
how can we ensure an open border
without a customs union?
The minister said there were many
proposals on the table that would be
viable and workable.
The Government has reported a new
and worrying development into the
investigation of the fire at
It's nine months since
the blaze claimed 71 lives.
The cladding and insulation
on the outside of the building have
already failed all preliminary
tests by the police.
Now investigators have found that
a flat door from the building
could only hold back a fire for half
the time it was supposed to.
Initial inspections indicated the
door is believed to have been
designed to resist fire for up to 30
minutes. But when tested by the
Metropolitan Police, failed after
approximately 15 minutes. The
Metropolitan Police considered that
this test result might have wider
implications for public safety and
alerted my department.
Sajid Javid had sought the advice
of an independent expert panel.
The expert panel has advised that
the risk to the public safety remain
low. There is no change to the fire
safety advice of the public should
follow. I, nevertheless, fully
appreciate that this news will be
troubling for many people, not
least, all those affected by the
Grenville tragedy. -- Grenfell Tower
tragedy. That is why we have begun
the process of conducting further
tests and will continue to consult
with the expert panel to identify
the implications of these further
test. I have made it clear that the
necessary tests and assessments must
he carried a thoroughly, but at
pace. There is no evidence that this
is a systemic issue.
If this isn't
systemic, what assessment has been
made of how many buildings are
potentially affected by this? How
many individual flats? How many
people who have fire doors that
simply don't do the job. What steps
is he taking to ascertain those
numbers if he doesn't already know
that and I suspect it is too early
to know that, but what steps are
being taken to make that kind of
dissemination? Because that's the
point at which the words that this
is not systemic begins to ring a
little incredible. It may be a
systemic problem and we've got to
begin to recognise if this is
widescale that we have just that
The minister repeated
that the government
was being led by the experts.
And there advice so far and that is
exactly why I said in my statement
earlier that there is no evidence of
a systemic problem. That is their
advice so far and B are correctly
taking advice whilst we continue
with further tests at pace. -- we
The expert panel's
recommendation that no change in
safety device will come as a
surprise to many people, so will the
Government insist that Dame Judith
Hackett's review into the fire
regulations assessment will make
sure that every high-rise building's
assessment will be published and
made available in an accessible form
for the public so they can perhaps
the reassurance from that that I
fear they won't have got from this
As a west London near
neighbour, residents in the London
Borough of Ealing Tansey grand mal
-- can see Grenfell. My constituent
was at the silent march last night
and he said that there was massive
numbers and the sense of injustice
was overwhelming. The Minister has
repeatedly said that public safety
is paramount. What is he doing to
instill public confidence into the
inquiry and the actor Matt? I don't
take it was ever there.
Grenfell Tower is in
the constituency of Emma Dent Coad.
She'd been speaking to an architect
who'd worked on the Estate.
In those days, the 1970s, fire doors
were supposed to lasts for one hour.
We're down to 30 minutes. Can we
please consider whether or not
buildings of that size am a half an
hour is enough?
She asked me about
the fire doors and whether one hour
is correct versus half-an-hour. This
is exactly one of the reasons why
I've set up the independent building
regulation and fire safety work
being done by Dame Judith Hackett. I
know this is an issue she will be
You're watching Thursday
in Parliament with me, Mandy Baker.
The Chair of the Commons health
committee has dismissed as "dismal"
the explanation from NHS
digital about why it
shares some patient data.
Last year the service agreed
with the home office that doctors
could give details including
addresses to immigration officials.
But such sharing has raised fears
that some migrants will be put off
getting medical help.
The chair of the health committee
began by reminding NHS
digital of its remit.
You say, we are the guardians of
patient data and say it is only ever
used for the good of health and
care. I'm afraid this is not the
approach that you're taking and I
just wonder, do you recognise the
potential damage that this is doing
at a time when we want the public to
trust NHS Digital to be making
ethical decisions about sharing data
for research purposes? Is a really
crucial thing that we need to get
the public on board with so that
they understand why it is in
everyone's best interest to do that.
Still, this matter has taken an
entirely versus driven approach to a
serious ethical issue. We have taken
a law driven approach. Not an
ethical driven approach.
consulted on very widely with a
large committee. So, a case of
filling inboxes. We are very, very,
very careful with how we handled
clinical data. I absolutely accept
you have, you know, a concern about
where the address data is in terms
of the confidentiality treatment of
it. We have looked to the law, we
have looked to case law and sought
to follow that came fully. --
It is not there for an
individual to not expect that
information to be shared? Is that
The Minister Pato
position is that there's not
reasonable expectation. From our
perspective, we have given notice
that we may share this data with the
Home Office, address data for
immigration enforcement tracing
purposes, so we have sought to be
completely transparent about the
potential use of the data.
personally think that is right if
that is going to reduce people's
willingness to access health care?
You personally think that is right?
We don't have empirical evidence
that says this will impact people's
use of the system.
procured by the Home Office resulted
in a deportation notice was sent to
AGP to pass on to a highly
vulnerable patient. Do you think
that is acceptable?
We have nothing
to do with how the Home Office
But as a consequence of
you release snye data, you have to
take summer spots ability for what
then happens with that.
nothing about the case that you're
I am telling you what
happened and you think on that basis
it was appropriate?
I don't know
enough contextually about that case,
the way immigration enforcement
work, to be able to make a comment
That's just dismal. I just
think that you have been told very
clearly that there is a risk. Why we
do not apply a precautionary
principle on this and at least
suspends data sharing until they
have completed their review?
But Sarah Wilkinson insisted,
they hadn't been told clearly
that this data sharing had an impact
on people seeking health care.
And MPs were keeping up the pressure
on ministers to invest
in mental health services.
In a debate in Westminister Hall,
a former health minister,
said better services
would benefit both
the individual and the Treasury.
What we know from the analysis
that's been done is that for every
£1 to invest in early intervention
and psychosis, to get the return of
£15 over subsequent years. Where the
complications is that the return on
that investment is not concentrated
just the NHS. It's getting people
off benefits and into work. It's
bringing in tax revenue, it's
reducing the number of people who
end up going through the criminal
justice system. As well as reduction
in the use of the NHS.
Norman Lamb also said leaving
people for months before
they could get treatment
amounted to discrimination.
Why should someone who experiences
psychosis be treated in any inferior
way to someone who suffers from
cancer or any other physical
Labour's Paul Williams is a GP.
He said people who got rapid
treatment had "half a chance"
of getting their lives
back on track.
You can just imagine if there were a
pathway through, it improves
survival and recovery, we would know
all about it and fight for it.
the past, diagnosis of psychosis
would be a life sentence. But early
intervention and treatment now can
lead to a recovery, people can get
their lives back on track. This is
not the dark old days where if you
had a mental illness, that was it.
We know that people can recover and
people should recover, but getting
early treatment is absolutely
crucial to that.
The Health Minister agreed that
improving access to treatment must
be a "top priority" and said that
ministers had a plan.
It remains the Government's priority
that we do deliver a change in how
we provide services to people with
poor mental health, and that is a
cultural change, it will take time.
We will make the investment in the
additional static resources to
deliver that change.
The Health Minister.
Peers have been debating how
to tackle hate speech online,
but the subject of hate speech
within the Lords also came up.
The Bishop of Gloucester
began by considering how
were to extreme content.
Websites have not benefits but this
is fraud costs. I'm concerned about
the hate speech that young people
are exposed to online, including
through anonymous apps. What is the
Government doing to ensure that the
age verification checks on apps are
actually effective stop the
Government is working extensively
with platforms on things such as age
verification, but also on things
such as bullying and trolling
Some of the things that
young people are exposed to second
blight their lives.
But then the questioning
moved closer to home.
It concerned Tommy Robinson,
the founder of the far-right group,
the English Defence League.
Does my noble friend agreed that all
members of this House should be
working to eradicate all forms of
hate speech and I know the noble
lord Lord Pearson is desperate to
get into this question, or if he
does get the opportunity to do so,
he could explain whether he thinks
is appropriate for members of this
House to be hosting the likes of
Tommy Robinson within the precincts
of this House at a time when there
is an increased risk in relation to
hate crime, and members of the other
house have been receiving hate
I couldn't agree more that
this isn't just a governmental
thing, is not a societal, but as
legislators for this country, we
have got a strong leadership role to
take. It does this make me when I
see that certain quite extreme
people are actually being invited
into the Palace of Westminster to
propagate some of their hate.
The UKIP peer didn't
mention Tommy Robinson
when he asked a question later.
A former Labour cabinet minister
said hate speech wouldn't be tackled
by technical control of platforms
alone, education was key.
In the chequered history of this
country, then there was a glorious
hours and sacrifices were made, in
order to defeat an ideology where at
its core, had racial hatred,
homophobic hatred, and political
hatred as well. And that you
abandoned the history of this
country and its greatest hours by
indulging in any of them and our
young people should know that.
The Minister agreed and stressed
the need to respect the right
to free speech without forgetting
how many lives had been
lost fighting hatred.
UN investigators have said it's
likely that crimes under
international law had been committed
against Rohingya Muslims
in the Burmese state of Rakine.
Hundreds of thousands
of people have fled
the violence and are now sheltering
in refugee camps in
They now face new dangers
of landslides and flooding
during the monsoon season.
When a Foreign Office minister
updated MPs on the situation he said
the Burmese autorities has refused
to allow the UN fact finding
mission into the country.
Despite this, after interviewing
Rohingya refugees, the report
revealed evidence of widespread and
systematic rape and murder of her
Hindi people and the distraction of
their homes and villages, primarily
by the Burmese military. -- of
Rohingya people. Since August 2017,
nearly 680,000 refugees have sought
shelter. The UN special reporter for
human rights in Burma recently
stated the conflict had all the
hallmarks of genocide. However, I
must tell the House that the only
path to prosecution for genocide
were crimes against humanity is by
the international criminal Court. It
is a legal process. Burma is not a
party to their own statute and must
either therefore revert itself to
the court or be referred by the UN
Security Council. Neither
eventuality is likely, I fear, in
the short term.
You will understand
the long-standing view on the side
of the House that is time to go
further and be more public and using
the UK's formal role as pen holder
on Myanmar and the United Nations
Security Council. The table
resolutions on these vital issues.
First, to table a resolution setting
down the terms under which the
repair attrition process should
proceed and the future rights and
protections that must be accorded to
the Rohingya refugees and obliging
the Myanmar authority to accede to
these terms. Secondly, at the
appropriate time, to table a
resolution referring Myanmar to the
international criminal Court. So
that the generals who this week
scandalously dismissed the UN's
claims of ethnic cleansing and
genocide and said instead that the
Rohingya had burned down their own
houses so that they can be brought
We will... There was
taken place in Burma a human rights
violation of the most serious kind.
Amounting to crimes under
international law and we've heard
earlier,... As a speaker today, my
own... Which was given to Aung San
Suu Kyi for...
The Minister has
reminded the House today that they
UN special reporter for human rights
in Burma has described this conflict
as having the hallmarks of genocide.
It is therefore absolutely
imperative that everything is done
to bring the various actors to
justice at the conclusion of it. The
Minister is quite right to remind us
about the challenges that we face in
reaching that end but there is an
immediate issue here, the most
compelling evidence that will inform
any prosecution in the future is to
be found now. Can't the Minister
tell me what the Government is doing
to ensure that every piece of
evidence that is available for
future use is being sought and
acquired at the moment?
The minister said the British
government was doing
its best to make sure
all the evidence was collected.
There have claims that the creative
industries will lose "vital
protection" after the UK
leaves the EU.
A Liberal Democrat was worried
about Brexit's impact on fashion
and design-based industries.
The heart exit from the EU means the
loss of EU unregistered community
design rights and vital protection
for designers who first disclosed
their designs in the UK. This is
just the way to lose London Fashion
The business minister said
new schemes would be
established to protect rights.
We will bring forward... To further
our rights here, there are the
negotiations that will take place in
the EU, with the EU as part of the
leaving process, which we hope will
feel though such will deal with
But that didn't convince
one Labour peer.
The amount of GDP that Fashion Week
race of this country is enormous, we
really needed to continue. Can you
ensure that this industry is welcome
here and will make sure that this
will happen quickly otherwise they
will look to go to Paris and Milan,
because they are asking them and
baiting them to come.
I think the
noble lady is taking a rather
pessimistic view of things, but we
are aware of those risks. When one
thinks of the strengths of the
industry in this country, I think
it's unlikely it's going to leave
overnight. But we will be in
discussion with people such as the
fashion Council, listen to their
particular concerns and we will
continue with our negotiations as
part of the process.
And that's it.
Join me at the same time
tomorrow for a look back
at the whole Week in Parliament,
but for now from me,
Mandy Baker, goodbye.