15/03/2018 Thursday in Parliament


15/03/2018

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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the programme.

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Coming up:

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Conservative MPs demand ministers

stand up to the EU on the vexed

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question of fishing after Brexit.

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The Armada of trawlers who have been

hit plundering Britain cosmic

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historic oozing ground are not going

to be happy that their best years

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are behind them. -- Britain's

historic fishing grounds.

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The doors to flats in

Grenfell Tower are found to have

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failed a police fire test.

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When tested by the Metropolitan

Police, the door failed after 15

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minutes.

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And a former cabinet minister

questions if a fellow peer is right

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to play host to the founder

of a far-right group.

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At a time when there is an increased

risk of relation to hate crimes.

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Of the many questions

surrounding Brexit, one

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of the main ones concerns fish.

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Conservative MPs have been pressing

the government not to agree

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to the EU's demand that the bloc

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should still have the right to fish

in UK waters after Brexit,

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in return for tariff-free access

to the European market

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for British goods and services.

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In its latest version

of the Brexit agreement,

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released on Thursday,

the EU has added in "opportunities"

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for the UK to "comment"

on fishing quotas.

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One Conservative believed people

would unite against the idea

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of continued access to UK waters:

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Well, while fish largely

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Remainers and believers are united

at the very worst aspect of our EU

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membership is the common fisheries

policy and when we leave the

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European Union, we leave the common

fisheries policy will stop on that

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day, the Armada of EU trawlers that

have been plundering Britain's

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historic fishing grounds since 1973

are not going to be happy that their

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best years are behind them. Can we

ensure that the Royal Navy has the

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resources it needs to protect our

sovereign waters and ensure the

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rebirth and the renaissance of the

British fishing industry.

It was

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disappointing to see an aggressive

line in that document about

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maintaining access to fishing

waters. I want the department is

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robust on the behalf of my

Northumbrian fishermen to ensure we

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regain control of our fishing waters

afford the sighting who else

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condition them.

It was a very odd

linkage to make as well. The simple

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truth is that when we leave the

European Union, we will be an

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independent coastal state. As a

result, we will control our own

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waters. There will of course be

continuing negotiations between

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neighbouring states because this

move about cats and quotas and the

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rest of it.

When we leave the

European Union will my friend

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confirm that he will not give free

and unfettered access as is demanded

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currently by the European Union?

As

the Secretary of State and I have

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but said, we will be leaving common

fisheries policy and take control of

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our waters. I would just say to him

that my experience of fishermen is

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that they do wish to have access to

European markets and I think we need

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to approach the fisheries

negotiation in the same constructive

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spirit as other parts of our

negotiation but yes, we will be

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taking control of our waters.

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While fish largely ignore

national borders, that's not

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always the case with MPs

- especially when that border

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is the one between Northern Ireland

and the Republic.

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The Government's committed

to avoiding what's known as a

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"hard border" after Brexit.

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But some MPs questioned

whether that's really plausible.

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Given that the Government have said

that the border will remain

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frictionless and that there will be

no border in the Irish Sea, the

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question many of us continue to ask

is, how can this happen?

Well,

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government has made clear its

unwavering commitment to three

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guiding principles in relation to

Northern Ireland and Republic.

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First, there should be no hard

border, North and South. Belfast

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agreement must be honoured and

thirdly that the Constitution and

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economic integrity of the United

Kingdom remains unimpaired and the

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Prime Minister has set out most

recently in her speech how that

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might be achieved. And also,

building on the options set out in

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the August position papers which

sets out practical options how we

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might take this forward.

This is

much more than just the movement of

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goods or services. It is about the

cultural issue. It is about the

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movement of people. It is about all

of that any symbolism of is enormous

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and the Minister needs to ensure

that that is recognised time after

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time in all of the talks that she

has to reassure the people of both

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parts of Ireland.

I don't think that

Ministers quite appreciate the level

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of concern that there is across the

House on this issue. Whenever I

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visited the Irish border, I've come

face-to-face with the reality of

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what the installation of any cameras

or any infrastructure would mean him

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and it would not last a day,

Minister. It would not last a day.

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Why won't the Secretary of State

even visit the borders so that he

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can appreciate why people are so

concerned?

The Secretary of State

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has also been to the border prior to

his appointment to this position and

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is very much apprised of the

sensitivity and importance of the

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squiggle issue.

Mr Speaker, I think

that says all we need to hear. How?

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How, that is what we want to know,

how can we ensure an open border

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without a customs union?

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The minister said there were many

proposals on the table that would be

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viable and workable.

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The Government has reported a new

and worrying development into the

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investigation of the fire at

Grenfell Tower.

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It's nine months since

the blaze claimed 71 lives.

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The cladding and insulation

on the outside of the building have

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already failed all preliminary

tests by the police.

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Now investigators have found that

a flat door from the building

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could only hold back a fire for half

the time it was supposed to.

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Initial inspections indicated the

door is believed to have been

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designed to resist fire for up to 30

minutes. But when tested by the

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Metropolitan Police, failed after

approximately 15 minutes. The

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Metropolitan Police considered that

this test result might have wider

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implications for public safety and

alerted my department.

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Sajid Javid had sought the advice

of an independent expert panel.

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The expert panel has advised that

the risk to the public safety remain

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low. There is no change to the fire

safety advice of the public should

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follow. I, nevertheless, fully

appreciate that this news will be

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troubling for many people, not

least, all those affected by the

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Grenville tragedy. -- Grenfell Tower

tragedy. That is why we have begun

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the process of conducting further

tests and will continue to consult

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with the expert panel to identify

the implications of these further

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test. I have made it clear that the

necessary tests and assessments must

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he carried a thoroughly, but at

pace. There is no evidence that this

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is a systemic issue.

If this isn't

systemic, what assessment has been

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made of how many buildings are

potentially affected by this? How

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many individual flats? How many

people who have fire doors that

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simply don't do the job. What steps

is he taking to ascertain those

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numbers if he doesn't already know

that and I suspect it is too early

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to know that, but what steps are

being taken to make that kind of

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dissemination? Because that's the

point at which the words that this

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is not systemic begins to ring a

little incredible. It may be a

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systemic problem and we've got to

begin to recognise if this is

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widescale that we have just that

systemic problem.

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The minister repeated

that the government

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was being led by the experts.

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And there advice so far and that is

exactly why I said in my statement

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earlier that there is no evidence of

a systemic problem. That is their

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advice so far and B are correctly

taking advice whilst we continue

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with further tests at pace. -- we

are.

The expert panel's

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recommendation that no change in

safety device will come as a

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surprise to many people, so will the

Government insist that Dame Judith

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Hackett's review into the fire

regulations assessment will make

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sure that every high-rise building's

assessment will be published and

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made available in an accessible form

for the public so they can perhaps

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the reassurance from that that I

fear they won't have got from this

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report.

As a west London near

neighbour, residents in the London

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Borough of Ealing Tansey grand mal

-- can see Grenfell. My constituent

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was at the silent march last night

and he said that there was massive

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numbers and the sense of injustice

was overwhelming. The Minister has

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repeatedly said that public safety

is paramount. What is he doing to

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instill public confidence into the

inquiry and the actor Matt? I don't

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take it was ever there.

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Grenfell Tower is in

the constituency of Emma Dent Coad.

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She'd been speaking to an architect

who'd worked on the Estate.

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In those days, the 1970s, fire doors

were supposed to lasts for one hour.

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We're down to 30 minutes. Can we

please consider whether or not

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buildings of that size am a half an

hour is enough?

She asked me about

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the fire doors and whether one hour

is correct versus half-an-hour. This

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is exactly one of the reasons why

I've set up the independent building

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regulation and fire safety work

being done by Dame Judith Hackett. I

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know this is an issue she will be

looking at.

Sajid Javid.

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You're watching Thursday

in Parliament with me, Mandy Baker.

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The Chair of the Commons health

committee has dismissed as "dismal"

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the explanation from NHS

digital about why it

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shares some patient data.

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Last year the service agreed

with the home office that doctors

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could give details including

addresses to immigration officials.

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But such sharing has raised fears

that some migrants will be put off

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getting medical help.

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The chair of the health committee

began by reminding NHS

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digital of its remit.

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You say, we are the guardians of

patient data and say it is only ever

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used for the good of health and

care. I'm afraid this is not the

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approach that you're taking and I

just wonder, do you recognise the

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potential damage that this is doing

at a time when we want the public to

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trust NHS Digital to be making

ethical decisions about sharing data

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for research purposes? Is a really

crucial thing that we need to get

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the public on board with so that

they understand why it is in

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everyone's best interest to do that.

Still, this matter has taken an

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entirely versus driven approach to a

serious ethical issue. We have taken

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a law driven approach. Not an

ethical driven approach.

It was

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consulted on very widely with a

large committee. So, a case of

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filling inboxes. We are very, very,

very careful with how we handled

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clinical data. I absolutely accept

you have, you know, a concern about

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where the address data is in terms

of the confidentiality treatment of

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it. We have looked to the law, we

have looked to case law and sought

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to follow that came fully. --

carefully.

It is not there for an

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individual to not expect that

information to be shared? Is that

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not reasonable?

The Minister Pato

position is that there's not

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reasonable expectation. From our

perspective, we have given notice

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that we may share this data with the

Home Office, address data for

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immigration enforcement tracing

purposes, so we have sought to be

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completely transparent about the

potential use of the data.

Do you

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personally think that is right if

that is going to reduce people's

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willingness to access health care?

You personally think that is right?

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We don't have empirical evidence

that says this will impact people's

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use of the system.

The information

procured by the Home Office resulted

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in a deportation notice was sent to

AGP to pass on to a highly

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vulnerable patient. Do you think

that is acceptable?

We have nothing

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to do with how the Home Office

handle this.

But as a consequence of

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you release snye data, you have to

take summer spots ability for what

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then happens with that.

I know

nothing about the case that you're

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talking about.

I am telling you what

happened and you think on that basis

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it was appropriate?

I don't know

enough contextually about that case,

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the way immigration enforcement

work, to be able to make a comment

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on it.

That's just dismal. I just

think that you have been told very

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clearly that there is a risk. Why we

do not apply a precautionary

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principle on this and at least

suspends data sharing until they

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have completed their review?

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But Sarah Wilkinson insisted,

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they hadn't been told clearly

that this data sharing had an impact

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on people seeking health care.

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And MPs were keeping up the pressure

on ministers to invest

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in mental health services.

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In a debate in Westminister Hall,

a former health minister,

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said better services

would benefit both

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the individual and the Treasury.

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What we know from the analysis

that's been done is that for every

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£1 to invest in early intervention

and psychosis, to get the return of

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£15 over subsequent years. Where the

complications is that the return on

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that investment is not concentrated

just the NHS. It's getting people

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off benefits and into work. It's

bringing in tax revenue, it's

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reducing the number of people who

end up going through the criminal

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justice system. As well as reduction

in the use of the NHS.

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Norman Lamb also said leaving

people for months before

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they could get treatment

amounted to discrimination.

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Why should someone who experiences

psychosis be treated in any inferior

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way to someone who suffers from

cancer or any other physical

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condition?

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Labour's Paul Williams is a GP.

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He said people who got rapid

treatment had "half a chance"

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of getting their lives

back on track.

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You can just imagine if there were a

pathway through, it improves

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survival and recovery, we would know

all about it and fight for it.

In

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the past, diagnosis of psychosis

would be a life sentence. But early

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intervention and treatment now can

lead to a recovery, people can get

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their lives back on track. This is

not the dark old days where if you

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had a mental illness, that was it.

We know that people can recover and

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people should recover, but getting

early treatment is absolutely

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crucial to that.

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The Health Minister agreed that

improving access to treatment must

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be a "top priority" and said that

ministers had a plan.

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It remains the Government's priority

that we do deliver a change in how

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we provide services to people with

poor mental health, and that is a

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cultural change, it will take time.

We will make the investment in the

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additional static resources to

deliver that change.

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The Health Minister.

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Peers have been debating how

to tackle hate speech online,

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but the subject of hate speech

within the Lords also came up.

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The Bishop of Gloucester

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began by considering how

vulnerable, children

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were to extreme content.

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Websites have not benefits but this

is fraud costs. I'm concerned about

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the hate speech that young people

are exposed to online, including

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through anonymous apps. What is the

Government doing to ensure that the

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age verification checks on apps are

actually effective stop the

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Government is working extensively

with platforms on things such as age

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verification, but also on things

such as bullying and trolling

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online.

Some of the things that

young people are exposed to second

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blight their lives.

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But then the questioning

moved closer to home.

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It concerned Tommy Robinson,

the founder of the far-right group,

0:17:460:17:49

the English Defence League.

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Does my noble friend agreed that all

members of this House should be

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working to eradicate all forms of

hate speech and I know the noble

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lord Lord Pearson is desperate to

get into this question, or if he

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does get the opportunity to do so,

he could explain whether he thinks

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is appropriate for members of this

House to be hosting the likes of

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Tommy Robinson within the precincts

of this House at a time when there

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is an increased risk in relation to

hate crime, and members of the other

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house have been receiving hate

letters.

I couldn't agree more that

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this isn't just a governmental

thing, is not a societal, but as

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legislators for this country, we

have got a strong leadership role to

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take. It does this make me when I

see that certain quite extreme

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people are actually being invited

into the Palace of Westminster to

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propagate some of their hate.

0:18:490:18:53

The UKIP peer didn't

mention Tommy Robinson

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when he asked a question later.

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A former Labour cabinet minister

said hate speech wouldn't be tackled

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by technical control of platforms

alone, education was key.

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In the chequered history of this

country, then there was a glorious

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hours and sacrifices were made, in

order to defeat an ideology where at

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its core, had racial hatred,

homophobic hatred, and political

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hatred as well. And that you

abandoned the history of this

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country and its greatest hours by

indulging in any of them and our

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young people should know that.

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The Minister agreed and stressed

the need to respect the right

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to free speech without forgetting

how many lives had been

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lost fighting hatred.

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UN investigators have said it's

likely that crimes under

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international law had been committed

against Rohingya Muslims

0:19:480:19:50

in the Burmese state of Rakine.

0:19:500:19:53

Hundreds of thousands

of people have fled

0:19:530:19:56

the violence and are now sheltering

in refugee camps in

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neighbouring Bangladesh.

0:19:580:20:02

They now face new dangers

of landslides and flooding

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during the monsoon season.

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When a Foreign Office minister

updated MPs on the situation he said

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the Burmese autorities has refused

to allow the UN fact finding

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mission into the country.

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Despite this, after interviewing

Rohingya refugees, the report

0:20:180:20:25

revealed evidence of widespread and

systematic rape and murder of her

0:20:250:20:29

Hindi people and the distraction of

their homes and villages, primarily

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by the Burmese military. -- of

Rohingya people. Since August 2017,

0:20:320:20:45

nearly 680,000 refugees have sought

shelter. The UN special reporter for

0:20:450:20:54

human rights in Burma recently

stated the conflict had all the

0:20:540:20:58

hallmarks of genocide. However, I

must tell the House that the only

0:20:580:21:03

path to prosecution for genocide

were crimes against humanity is by

0:21:030:21:07

the international criminal Court. It

is a legal process. Burma is not a

0:21:070:21:12

party to their own statute and must

either therefore revert itself to

0:21:120:21:16

the court or be referred by the UN

Security Council. Neither

0:21:160:21:22

eventuality is likely, I fear, in

the short term.

You will understand

0:21:220:21:27

the long-standing view on the side

of the House that is time to go

0:21:270:21:30

further and be more public and using

the UK's formal role as pen holder

0:21:300:21:37

on Myanmar and the United Nations

Security Council. The table

0:21:370:21:40

resolutions on these vital issues.

First, to table a resolution setting

0:21:400:21:46

down the terms under which the

repair attrition process should

0:21:460:21:51

proceed and the future rights and

protections that must be accorded to

0:21:510:21:56

the Rohingya refugees and obliging

the Myanmar authority to accede to

0:21:560:22:02

these terms. Secondly, at the

appropriate time, to table a

0:22:020:22:07

resolution referring Myanmar to the

international criminal Court. So

0:22:070:22:11

that the generals who this week

scandalously dismissed the UN's

0:22:110:22:16

claims of ethnic cleansing and

genocide and said instead that the

0:22:160:22:21

Rohingya had burned down their own

houses so that they can be brought

0:22:210:22:24

to account.

We will... There was

taken place in Burma a human rights

0:22:240:22:34

violation of the most serious kind.

Amounting to crimes under

0:22:340:22:38

international law and we've heard

earlier,... As a speaker today, my

0:22:380:22:49

own... Which was given to Aung San

Suu Kyi for...

The Minister has

0:22:490:23:01

reminded the House today that they

UN special reporter for human rights

0:23:010:23:05

in Burma has described this conflict

as having the hallmarks of genocide.

0:23:050:23:11

It is therefore absolutely

imperative that everything is done

0:23:110:23:14

to bring the various actors to

justice at the conclusion of it. The

0:23:140:23:19

Minister is quite right to remind us

about the challenges that we face in

0:23:190:23:22

reaching that end but there is an

immediate issue here, the most

0:23:220:23:29

compelling evidence that will inform

any prosecution in the future is to

0:23:290:23:33

be found now. Can't the Minister

tell me what the Government is doing

0:23:330:23:37

to ensure that every piece of

evidence that is available for

0:23:370:23:44

future use is being sought and

acquired at the moment?

0:23:440:23:46

The minister said the British

government was doing

0:23:460:23:48

its best to make sure

all the evidence was collected.

0:23:480:23:52

There have claims that the creative

industries will lose "vital

0:23:520:23:55

protection" after the UK

leaves the EU.

0:23:550:23:57

A Liberal Democrat was worried

about Brexit's impact on fashion

0:23:570:23:59

and design-based industries.

0:23:590:24:05

The heart exit from the EU means the

loss of EU unregistered community

0:24:050:24:10

design rights and vital protection

for designers who first disclosed

0:24:100:24:15

their designs in the UK. This is

just the way to lose London Fashion

0:24:150:24:19

Week.

0:24:190:24:19

The business minister said

new schemes would be

0:24:190:24:21

established to protect rights.

0:24:210:24:23

We will bring forward... To further

our rights here, there are the

0:24:230:24:31

negotiations that will take place in

the EU, with the EU as part of the

0:24:310:24:36

leaving process, which we hope will

feel though such will deal with

0:24:360:24:43

these matters.

0:24:430:24:44

But that didn't convince

one Labour peer.

0:24:440:24:46

The amount of GDP that Fashion Week

race of this country is enormous, we

0:24:460:24:52

really needed to continue. Can you

ensure that this industry is welcome

0:24:520:24:57

here and will make sure that this

will happen quickly otherwise they

0:24:570:25:01

will look to go to Paris and Milan,

because they are asking them and

0:25:010:25:05

baiting them to come.

I think the

noble lady is taking a rather

0:25:050:25:10

pessimistic view of things, but we

are aware of those risks. When one

0:25:100:25:16

thinks of the strengths of the

industry in this country, I think

0:25:160:25:20

it's unlikely it's going to leave

overnight. But we will be in

0:25:200:25:23

discussion with people such as the

fashion Council, listen to their

0:25:230:25:30

particular concerns and we will

continue with our negotiations as

0:25:300:25:35

part of the process.

0:25:350:25:36

And that's it.

0:25:370:25:38

Join me at the same time

tomorrow for a look back

0:25:380:25:40

at the whole Week in Parliament,

but for now from me,

0:25:400:25:43

Mandy Baker, goodbye.

0:25:430:25:44

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