Browse content similar to 26/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to Tuesday in Parliament, our look at the best | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
of the day in the Commons and the Lords. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:18 | |
On this programme: | 0:00:18 | 0:00:19 | |
After the Home Secretary's sceptical speech, the Commons argues over | 0:00:19 | 0:00:22 | |
the European Convention on Human Rights. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:26 | |
Why should this house vote for something we do not believe in, | 0:00:26 | 0:00:29 | |
which our constituents do not believe in? | 0:00:29 | 0:00:32 | |
And it's restoring that common-sense that is the objective | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
of this entire goverment. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
Are they the "crack cocaine" of gambling? | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
MPs focus on the hazards of Fixed Odds Betting Terminals. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
Now is the time to look very carefully at the | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
damage these machines are doing. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
And a Labour MP mocks last week's election in the House of Lords | 0:00:50 | 0:00:54 | |
of a Lib Dem hereditary peer. | 0:00:54 | 0:01:01 | |
No spoiled ballot papers, and miraculously, | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
Madame Deputy Speaker, all three votes went | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
to Viscount Thurso in the first round! | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
But first, the Home Secretary has faced accusations of having gone | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
"rogue" by calling for the UK to quit the European Convention | 0:01:09 | 0:01:14 | |
on Human Rights, the ECHR. | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
Theresa May said Britain should remain part of the European Union | 0:01:17 | 0:01:21 | |
but leave the convention which, she said, | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
"can bind the hands of Parliament". | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
Her remarks have been defended by the Attorney General, | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
Jeremy Wright, who came to the Commons to answer an urgent | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
question from a Lib Dem MP who spoke about Government "confusion". | 0:01:32 | 0:01:38 | |
The Home Secretary was the one who could make the speech yesterday. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
She can apparently come and make a statement tomorrow. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:44 | |
She should be here today. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
Yesterday, she went rogue. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
Today, she has gone missing. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:51 | |
The truth of the matter is, that there is now total confusion | 0:01:51 | 0:01:56 | |
at the heart of government policy on this. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
The Home Secretary tells us that apparently, she wants to remain | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
in the European Union, but leave the convention. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
The parliamentary undersecretary wants to leave the European Union, | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
but remain in the convention. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
The Lord Chancellor wants to leave the European Union, | 0:02:11 | 0:02:16 | |
stay in the convention, | 0:02:16 | 0:02:17 | |
but ignore the jurisprudence of the court. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:19 | |
Thank goodness we don't have the instability | 0:02:19 | 0:02:23 | |
of a Coalition Government any more(!) | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
The Attorney General said the Government had a "mandate" | 0:02:26 | 0:02:28 | |
to seek reform of the ECHR. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:30 | |
The Prime Minister has been clear throughout that we rule | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
out absolutely nothing in getting that done. | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
Although our preference is to seek to achieve reforms while remaining | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
members of the European Convention. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
What the Home Secretary was doing yesterday, | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
in a speech with which I suspect he broadly agreed, | 0:02:45 | 0:02:48 | |
and with which I certainly found to be a very persuasive case | 0:02:48 | 0:02:52 | |
for remaining within the European Union, | 0:02:52 | 0:02:54 | |
what she was doing was to set out some of the difficulties | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
with the human rights landscape as it stands, | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
and we think that there are considerable difficulties. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
There is an absence of common sense. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:06 | |
There have been cases which have demonstrated that human rights law | 0:03:06 | 0:03:10 | |
is headed in the wrong direction, and it is restoring that | 0:03:10 | 0:03:16 | |
is headed in the wrong direction, and it is restoring that common | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
sense that is the objective of this entire government. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
The Home Secretary was absolutely clear - | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
we should leave the EC HR whatever the outcome of the EU referendum. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
So what status do the Home Secretary's remarks have? | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
Are they government policy? | 0:03:29 | 0:03:30 | |
Do they bind the MoJ and the government? | 0:03:30 | 0:03:32 | |
Or is it just the Home Office that is coming out | 0:03:32 | 0:03:34 | |
of the convention? | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
I have to say to the honourable gentleman that he will find | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
many of his constituents and many of mine do not think | 0:03:40 | 0:03:44 | |
the status quo is acceptable. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:45 | |
They do wish to see reform. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
That's what we had a mandate for in the general election, | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
and that's what this government will deliver. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
Doesn't this unholy model demonstrate the trouble you get | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
Doesn't this unholy muddle demonstrate the trouble you get | 0:03:57 | 0:03:59 | |
into when we contract out our policy to the tabloid leader writers? | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
And isn't the truth of it that the simplicities that suit them | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
actually override an immensely complex issue here, and the fact | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
that the message our nation sends out about our commitment to human | 0:04:09 | 0:04:13 | |
rights should be through an unswerving commitment | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
to the convention? | 0:04:16 | 0:04:21 | |
The ECHR is hard-wired into the Scotland Act. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:23 | |
Everything that the Scottish Government and the Scottish | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
Parliament do is governed by the EC HR, and I can assure | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
Parliament do is governed by the ECHR, and I can assure | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
that the British government is that, given the composition of the last | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
Scottish Parliament and the likely composition of the next | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
Scottish Parliament, there is no question | 0:04:37 | 0:04:38 | |
of the Scottish Parliament ever giving its consents to Britain | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
withdrawing from the ECHR. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
The convention on human rights has been extended way | 0:04:44 | 0:04:49 | |
beyond the original remit that was drawn up, in part | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
by the United Kingdom, in the immediate aftermath | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
of the Second World War. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
My right honourable friend is absolutely right | 0:04:55 | 0:04:56 | |
to seek to pursue changes. | 0:04:56 | 0:04:57 | |
Will he do so as swiftly as possible to get the thing | 0:04:57 | 0:05:00 | |
back under control? | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
The Attorney and the Justice Secretary say they haven't | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
ruled out the UK leaving the European Convention | 0:05:05 | 0:05:09 | |
on Human Rights, the more it is sounding to me | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
like a direction of travel, that that is exactly | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
what they are intending to do, and I find that chilling. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:22 | |
In the European Court of Human Rights, we have | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
pseudo-judges, many of them political appointees, rather than | 0:05:24 | 0:05:26 | |
rather than proper judges, overreaching their remit | 0:05:26 | 0:05:28 | |
under the convention with ridiculous | 0:05:28 | 0:05:29 | |
decisions such as votes for prisoners. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
Why should this house vote for something we do not believe in, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
which our constituents do not believe in, and for something | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
which makes the Prime Minister physically sick? | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
The status quo which he has described there is unacceptable | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
to quite a lot of people in this country, quite a lot of people | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
we all represent, and I think the case for reform is unanswerable, | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
and that's what this government is going to do. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:55 | |
An opposition attempt to prevent the government merging the control | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
of fire and rescue services in England with the police has | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
failed in the Commons. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:01 | |
The Government intends handing the running of fire services | 0:06:01 | 0:06:03 | |
to Police and Crime Commissioners. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
Ministers insist the operation of the two will remain separate. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
Labour tried to block the move, which is contained in | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
the Police and Crime Bill. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
A Shadow Home Office minister wondered what benefits | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
the elected PCCs would bring to the fire and rescue service. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:22 | |
Peter Murphy, the director of public policy research | 0:06:22 | 0:06:24 | |
at Nottingham business School, has argued that slipping | 0:06:24 | 0:06:30 | |
into the status of a Cinderella service would only be a repeat | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
of what happened the last time fire had to share | 0:06:33 | 0:06:38 | |
an agenda with policing. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:39 | |
I will quote him in full, because it really gets, I think, | 0:06:39 | 0:06:42 | |
to the heart of the matter. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:44 | |
He says: If the proposals are implemented, there | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
is a very strong chance that Fire And Rescue Services would go | 0:06:48 | 0:06:53 | |
back to the benign neglect that characterised the service | 0:06:53 | 0:06:58 | |
of 1974-2001, when the Home Office was last responsible | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
for the Fire Service. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
And would she agree with me that this move, this proposal, | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
if you combine it with a 17% cuts that have already been seen | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
in the service across the country, could lead to quite a risky | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
situation for many vulnerable households in particular? | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
If there was an attempt to combine the emergency services, | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
fire and police, then we would have moved to one funding stream. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
I've categorically ruled that out, so that sort of scaremongering, | 0:07:27 | 0:07:32 | |
not from the shadow minister, but from others, is actually flawed. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
There was a separate funding strain from the precept and on the police, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
and the only piece that is going to be amalgamated should the PCCs, | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
just like the Metro mayors are actually doing, | 0:07:44 | 0:07:46 | |
is in the back office and on the administrative side. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
To be clear, there is no suggestion that police officers | 0:07:49 | 0:07:53 | |
will be fighting fires, or firefighters arresting criminals. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:57 | |
The legislation simply reforms the governance of the two services, | 0:07:57 | 0:08:03 | |
and ensures one democratically accountable individual has | 0:08:03 | 0:08:07 | |
responsibility for the two services. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:11 | |
I do believe, and I don't feel ashamed of saying this at all, | 0:08:11 | 0:08:16 | |
I do believe that firefighters and police officers perform | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
very different roles, and that doesn't mean to say | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
that we don't value the roles of both equally, but they perform | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
very different roles, and have different remits, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:28 | |
and very, very differently, a police officer is seen as a legal | 0:08:28 | 0:08:33 | |
person, someone who is actually there to uphold the law. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:39 | |
A fireman or fire woman, or anyone who is involved | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
in the rescue services is seen very, very differently. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:44 | |
And again, that single employer would begin to confuse | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
that in the public mind. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:53 | |
It is that requirement to hold yourself to account | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
in front of the electors, which I think goes to the heart | 0:08:56 | 0:08:59 | |
of the success of the PCC model, and is a success that I think | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
is important to extend to the Fire and Rescue Service, and I will give | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
way to the honourable lady. | 0:09:06 | 0:09:07 | |
I'm very grateful for the honourable gentleman giving way. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
The honourable lady opposite spoke about cuts, but Cheshire's Police | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
Crime Commissioner has very successfully put more officers | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
on the front line. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
He has collaborated with his local Fire and Rescue Service, | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
where there will be co-located in police headquarters in Winsford, | 0:09:24 | 0:09:28 | |
and it is an example of where cooperation | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
is delivering more for less, very, very effectively. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:35 | |
This clause, I think, gives the power for the Secretary | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
of State to make a name change, but a clear name change, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:42 | |
to ensure that at the next set of national elections, | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
people will understand that they are voting | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
for a combined role of a Police Crime Commissioner and a Fire | 0:09:49 | 0:09:52 | |
Commissioner as well. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:56 | |
But it must remain cemented in their minds through this | 0:09:56 | 0:09:59 | |
title that those roles, although they have a combined | 0:09:59 | 0:10:03 | |
leadership, remain absolutely separate and their operational | 0:10:03 | 0:10:07 | |
independence is protected by under this bill. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
independence is protected under this bill. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
Now, how addictive are these machines? | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
It's estimated that people in Britain spend as much | 0:10:16 | 0:10:18 | |
as a billion pounds a week playing on Fixed Odds Betting Terminals, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
machines installed in betting shops that allow people to bet | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
on the outcome of various games and events with fixed odds. | 0:10:25 | 0:10:30 | |
The machines have proved controversial since they first | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
appeared. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
Critics say it's possible to lose large amounts of money | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
and the machines are leading to problem gambling. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
The latest debate on the subject was initiated by a Democratic Unionist. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:45 | |
The lack of regulation of Fixed Odds Betting Terminals has | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
meant that they have clustered in areas of high social deprivation. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:51 | |
They are able to prey on the young and the vulnerable. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:53 | |
There is strong evidence that the high-stakes | 0:10:53 | 0:10:55 | |
on the Fixed Odds Betting Terminals and the low supervision environment | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
of a bookmaker has led to and increased problem with gambling. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:02 | |
In my constituency of Glasgow East, there are a particularly high | 0:11:02 | 0:11:05 | |
number of betting shops within a concentrated area. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
It's been suggested that the disproportionate impact | 0:11:09 | 0:11:11 | |
that Fixed Odds Betting Terminals have on poorer and more vulnerable | 0:11:11 | 0:11:14 | |
communities due to the massive overprovision in those areas, | 0:11:14 | 0:11:20 | |
with some streets in the East End of Glasgow having as many as four | 0:11:20 | 0:11:23 | |
bookmakers in the same street within a few hundred | 0:11:23 | 0:11:26 | |
yards of each other, with multiple units in each shop. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:29 | |
A Labour MP said there was a connection between crime | 0:11:29 | 0:11:31 | |
and Fixed Odds Betting Terminals, or FOBATeeS. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:35 | |
Seven out of ten MPs, cross-party, agree with me and others that | 0:11:35 | 0:11:40 | |
FOBATeeS are a dangerous pastime. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
The government is due to launch its triennial review. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:47 | |
Now is the time to look very carefully at the damage | 0:11:47 | 0:11:50 | |
that these machines are doing. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:52 | |
The gambling commission has said if they were setting the stake | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
now, they would advise against the ?100 stake, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
purely on precautionary measures. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
I do understand the instinct of this government, | 0:12:02 | 0:12:03 | |
a Conservative government, is not to give in to | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
the nanny state urges. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:07 | |
It's the sort of argument I would make on a fairly | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
regular basis. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:11 | |
But it does seem to be odd that we might impose a sugar tax, | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
that we have ever more draconian measures against smokers, | 0:12:14 | 0:12:17 | |
at the self same time that we allow these high-stakes gambling machines | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
to proliferate in such a loosely regulated environment. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:25 | |
So I would ask the minister now to work with responsible operators | 0:12:25 | 0:12:29 | |
in the gambling industry, of whom there are very many, | 0:12:29 | 0:12:32 | |
to reduce the FOBATee stake. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:34 | |
These machines are already very heavily regulated. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:37 | |
Every aspect of their operation is controlled. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
They must be licensed. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:40 | |
The maximum stake is controlled. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:41 | |
The maximum stake is controlled. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:42 | |
The maximum pay-out is controlled. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
The fact is that gambling is available in many forms, | 0:12:44 | 0:12:48 | |
and there is no control over, let's say, how much anyone can stake | 0:12:48 | 0:12:54 | |
on a five-furlong flat race which is over in less than a minute. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
There is no control over how many scratchcards | 0:12:57 | 0:12:59 | |
a 16-year-old can buy... | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
I will give way, very briefly. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
He seems to be making a very principled argument | 0:13:03 | 0:13:05 | |
that we shouldn't have a ?100 limit on FOBATeeS, that why should | 0:13:05 | 0:13:08 | |
we have that if you can bet ?1,000 on a horse race, | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
or ?10,000 on a horse race, or walk into a casino and put | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
X amount on whatever, what is the point of having a ?100 | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
maximum stake on a FOBATee? | 0:13:17 | 0:13:18 | |
His argument is clearly to remove the maximum stake and allow freedom | 0:13:18 | 0:13:21 | |
His argument is clearly to remove the maximum stake and allow freedom | 0:13:21 | 0:13:24 | |
His argument is clearly to remove the maximum stake and allow freedom | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
to stake as much as you would like. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
Well, the factors that very few people bet ?100 a stake. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
In fact, only around one in 100 customers even stake over ?50, | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
and the average stake on a machine is just ?5.13. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
It is about location, more than anything else. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
It's about the proximity of these machines to people who may be | 0:13:41 | 0:13:45 | |
vulnerable to developing a gambling habit, and falling foul | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
of their propensity to gamble too much by going into a betting shop | 0:13:48 | 0:13:53 | |
and losing more money than they can afford to lose. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:58 | |
The Minister said the Government has brought in measures to end | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
unsupervised high stake gambling on Fixed Odds Betting Terminals. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:06 | |
The industry and the gambling commission introduced additional | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
measures to further the social responsibility agenda at this time, | 0:14:10 | 0:14:13 | |
which I will touch on shortly. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
The government subsequently conducted an evaluation | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
of the regulations on B2 gaming machines, which was published | 0:14:19 | 0:14:22 | |
earlier this year. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:23 | |
In summary, there have been a significant reduction | 0:14:23 | 0:14:26 | |
in the number of stakes above ?50, and there are indications that | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
as a result of these regulations, players on B2 gaming machines may | 0:14:30 | 0:14:35 | |
now be thinking about making a more conscious choice to control | 0:14:35 | 0:14:40 | |
their playing behaviour. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
You're watching our round-up of the day | 0:14:44 | 0:14:45 | |
in the Commons and the Lords. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:47 | |
Still to come: | 0:14:47 | 0:14:48 | |
Are operations in the NHS being denied to people who smoke | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
and who're overweight? | 0:14:51 | 0:14:59 | |
More accurate information on the number of EU migrants living | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
in the UK will be published ahead of the referendum. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:07 | |
That's the promise that's been given to a committee of MPs. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:12 | |
But the national statistician John Pullinger said accurate figures | 0:15:12 | 0:15:15 | |
were hard to come by, because of 'red tape' | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
in government departments. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
Meanwhile the head of the UK Statistics Authority | 0:15:19 | 0:15:23 | |
defended his clarification on figure used by the 'Vote Leave' campaign | 0:15:23 | 0:15:27 | |
to the chairman of the public administration committee, | 0:15:27 | 0:15:29 | |
who's also a board member of 'Vote Leave'. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:34 | |
At the moment, we have our international migration estimates | 0:15:34 | 0:15:39 | |
based on the international passenger survey which was never designed | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
for this purpose but has proved itself pretty robust when tested | 0:15:42 | 0:15:48 | |
against external figures. | 0:15:48 | 0:15:50 | |
If we had had access to these data sets, I would be much freer to go | 0:15:50 | 0:15:54 | |
to the Home Office and get | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
individual data such as it is on exits and incoming data. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:02 | |
At the moment that requires a protracted | 0:16:02 | 0:16:07 | |
negotiation, not for a bad reason but because my colleagues in the | 0:16:07 | 0:16:12 | |
Home Office have a particular set of legal requirements around what data | 0:16:12 | 0:16:14 | |
they can share with people. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
There is not an unambiguous clarity that I am someone they can | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
share data with. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:23 | |
If I want figures about immigration I have to go to | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
DWP re issuing national insurance numbers. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:32 | |
I have to go to HMRC to understand which foreign born people are | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
on the system somewhere, either because they are paying tax or | 0:16:35 | 0:16:38 | |
claiming benefits and I would go to the health service to find out how | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
many foreign people are using the health service. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
To understand immigration I need to put together a jigsaw | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
of different sources. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
Can I just declare an interest as a director of Vote Leave which you | 0:16:49 | 0:16:53 | |
may or may not have been aware of when you issued a mild rebuke | 0:16:53 | 0:17:00 | |
to Vote Leave about the use of ?350 million per | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
week as an indication of what it costs the UK to be a member of | 0:17:03 | 0:17:07 | |
the EU. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:17 | |
Can I just also clarify the 19.1 billion figure in table 9/9 is a | 0:17:17 | 0:17:21 | |
valid figure nevertheless, if it is surrounded by sufficient | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
explanation? | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
Your term is mild rebuke. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
The letter that I wrote is not suggesting that 19.1 billion is not | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
the gross figure. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:36 | |
Indeed I wrote to you earlier setting out the figures. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:41 | |
My concern was that for example the | 0:17:41 | 0:17:50 | |
poster that said something of the form we should stop sending ?350 | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
million a week to the EU and spend it on our NHS instead, could be | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
interpreted as implying the gross figure was in fact the net figure. | 0:17:56 | 0:18:01 | |
Mr Gove is very careful in his speeches to | 0:18:01 | 0:18:06 | |
say we send 19.1 billion but a rebate of 4.4 billion comes | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
to us and 4.8 billion comes back to us. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
It was that I was wanting to draw attention to. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
As discussion then returned to counting migration figures, | 0:18:17 | 0:18:21 | |
the various indicators of who came to the UK and how long | 0:18:21 | 0:18:23 | |
they stayed were compared. | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
It left one MP feeling dismayed. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
We're really not in control of this. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
We really don't have the information about who is coming in and who's | 0:18:31 | 0:18:38 | |
working, who is staying and who is leaving because all the answers | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
from the three of you have left me feeling | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
that we are just not in control of what is going | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
on in our own country. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:53 | |
We can check now the numbers we're getting in our published figures | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
against the number of people actually residing in different | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
parts of the country so we are continually checking | 0:18:58 | 0:19:00 | |
but it is an uncertain science. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:03 | |
So the answer is yes, we're not in control | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
and we do not know exactly what is happening. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
We don't know exactly. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:08 | |
Thank you. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
But he promised more accurate information | 0:19:11 | 0:19:13 | |
would be published in May - ahead of June's In/Out | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
EU referendum. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:21 | |
As we reported last week, the former Lib Dem MP John Thurso | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
is back in Parliament. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:25 | |
Viscount Thurso has successfully completed the procedure to win | 0:19:25 | 0:19:30 | |
a place as an elected hereditary member of the Lords. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
Every time a hereditary peer dies an election takes place. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:36 | |
But the voters are just the existing hereditary members of the party | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
of the deceased peer. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
In the Commons, the former Justice Minister David Hanson | 0:19:42 | 0:19:44 | |
thought the process faintly absurd. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
He brought in a Bill scrapping the provision, | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
that's been in place for 17 years, allowing 90 hereditary peers | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
to continue to sit in the Lords. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
He mentioned some of the more unusual aspects of the | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
election of Lord Thurso. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:03 | |
The electorate that held power to elect the noble peer in | 0:20:03 | 0:20:06 | |
this House of Lords was in this case, Mr Speaker, three people. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:11 | |
This, Mr Speaker, is the 21st century. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
The three remaining Lib Dem hereditary peers | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
were the sole electorate in this House. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:21 | |
Each hopeful in this election had to write 75 words | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
about why they should be | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
trusted with the seat in this Parliament. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:30 | |
The eventual winner's manifesto was excellent for the environment. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
It was a blank piece of paper. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:38 | |
For the gang of three people who voted for him, | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
there were no words saying what he would do | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
and why he would do it. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
I am pleased to tell the House that unlike the national | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
declining voter trend, there was a 100% turnout in this action. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
No spoiled ballot papers and miraculously, all three | 0:20:55 | 0:20:59 | |
votes went to Viscount Thurso in the first round. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:04 | |
The count, Madame Deputy Speaker, took 24 hours which is not | 0:21:04 | 0:21:10 | |
quite Houghton and Washington South... | 0:21:10 | 0:21:12 | |
But still resulted in a member of Parliament. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:15 | |
Houghton and Sunderland South being the Commons constituency that | 0:21:15 | 0:21:18 | |
at every General Election counts its votes faster | 0:21:18 | 0:21:20 | |
than everywhere else. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
Mr Hanson's Bill was given initial approval but won't become law due | 0:21:23 | 0:21:26 | |
to a lack of Parliamentary time. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:32 | |
Growing numbers of smokers and seriously overweight people | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
are being denied operations as they are 'soft targets' | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
for money-saving in the National Health Service. | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
That's the claim of the Royal College of Surgeons, | 0:21:41 | 0:21:45 | |
which said such restrictions were wrong and left those | 0:21:45 | 0:21:47 | |
affected in distress. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
The Royal College said the refusal to do operations was | 0:21:50 | 0:21:52 | |
happening in more and more areas across England. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:57 | |
In the Lords, a Health Minister said he didn't support what he termed any | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
'arbitrary restrictions' on the treatment of patients. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
However, there are often sound clinical reasons to | 0:22:04 | 0:22:06 | |
encourage patients to lose weight or stop smoking. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
For example, to get the best clinical benefit from joint | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
replacement surgery. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
CCGs should support patients to reduce their tobacco | 0:22:15 | 0:22:17 | |
consumption or weight and signpost them to appropriate services. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:23 | |
Can I ask the Minister what action he intends to take against clinical | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
commissioning groups who are commissioning services based on | 0:22:26 | 0:22:32 | |
arbitrary, discriminatory decisions rather than on evidence. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:39 | |
The whole purpose of local commissioning groups was that | 0:22:39 | 0:22:41 | |
they would be guided and directed by local clinicians so they must be | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
allowed to set their own local priorities. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:49 | |
It would not be right for me to direct commissioning | 0:22:49 | 0:22:52 | |
groups how to behaviour. | 0:22:52 | 0:22:56 | |
It is clear these blanket bans are nothing more | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
than crude rationing and causing distress to patients. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:03 | |
Will he issue instructions to CCGs they should not | 0:23:03 | 0:23:05 | |
embark on these blanket bans? | 0:23:06 | 0:23:10 | |
Will he agree that programmes to support | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
weight management and smoking cessation should be part of the | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
treatment programme rather than being used as a barrier to | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
treatment? | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
Yes, my Lord. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
He has really quoted verbatim from the recommendations | 0:23:24 | 0:23:34 | |
the Royal College of Surgeons put in their report. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
I agree with him completely. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:37 | |
As a surgeon I had cause to cancel or delay operations of patients | 0:23:37 | 0:23:40 | |
who were obese or were smokers. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:42 | |
Those decisions were based on clinical | 0:23:42 | 0:23:43 | |
grounds from the knowledge I had of the individual patients. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
Clinical Commissioning Groups can give | 0:23:46 | 0:23:48 | |
guidance but they should not be providing diktats. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
What assurance will the Minister gave that clinical | 0:23:52 | 0:23:55 | |
decisions will be left to those who have the best interest | 0:23:55 | 0:23:59 | |
of the patient at hand and know the patient? | 0:23:59 | 0:24:03 | |
Does the Minister accept that | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
the reductions in expenditure of public health of ?200 million a year | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
may make it harder to reduce the | 0:24:08 | 0:24:13 | |
prevalence of tobacco smoking and obesity and in these | 0:24:13 | 0:24:18 | |
circumstances patients who need cessation | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
services may find it difficult to get the support they need. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:25 | |
They may need more guidance and support on | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
how to challenge the decision of CCGs if they are being discriminated | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
against unfairly and in breach of national guidelines. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
Does the Minister not agree that everybody in | 0:24:36 | 0:24:38 | |
this country must know that smoking and being overweight is bad for | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
them? | 0:24:41 | 0:24:47 | |
Does he not think individuals should be encouraged to take more | 0:24:47 | 0:24:50 | |
responsibility for their health rather than less? | 0:24:50 | 0:24:52 | |
Clearly there is a balance between the obligations of | 0:24:52 | 0:24:55 | |
individuals to take responsibility for themselves and the obligation of | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
society to take responsibility. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
Getting that balance right is what has | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
characterised the success we | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
have had in this country in reducing smoking and we hope it will have | 0:25:07 | 0:25:10 | |
the same regarding obesity. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:11 | |
He said the obesity strategy would be coming out soon. | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
What is his interpretation of soon? | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
Before long. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:24 | |
Lord Prior causing some humour in the House of Lords. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:27 | |
And that's it for this programme. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:28 | |
Do join me for our next round-up. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:30 | |
Until then, from me Keith Macdougall, goodbye. | 0:25:30 | 0:25:37 |