21/02/2017 Tuesday in Parliament

Hello and welcome to Tuesday in Parliament.

Peers insist they have a right to be heard as they hold their second day

This house should be urging a rethink on the project. This house

should be sailing not in my name. We should be sailing not in my name. We

have two stop the money from butchers and despots which flows

through UK banks. And, Lord Tebbit changes

his mind about bikes - complaining about the time it takes

for motorists to That has been caused

by the barricades which have been put up in order to assist

cyclists, who also get in the way But first, the House of Lords has

been having its second day of debate on the Bill that will start

the formal process To accommodate the 190 people

who wanted to contribute, the upper chamber had an early start

- kicking off at 11am First to speak was the Conservative

former Chancellor, Lord Lamont. I made my maiden

speech in the House of Commons in 1972 in favour

of our membership of the European Union

on the European Communities

Third Reading Act. I little dreamt that 45 years later

I would be standing up and actually advocating

the reverse procedure, namely that we should withdraw

from the organisation I advocated joining, but it is not me

who has changed, but I think Europe. As was symbolised in its change

of name from the European Economic Community to the European Community,

finally to the European Union. A Liberal Democrat said

the British people should be given a second referendum

when negotiations were complete. For this Government,

the economy is low on this new agenda, compared to reducing

immigration and removing any But I'm pretty sure

that is not the priority So let the people see

the final Brexit deal and Consider its consequences

and decide on it. In two years, we will have facts

and reasonable clarity. And surely then it is time

for the British people to have My Lords, it is a pleasure

to follow the noble Baroness Kramer, but is a pleasure

also to disagree profoundly with her suggestion of having

a second referendum. I would like to begin by

congratulating the Prime Minister on Her vision and clarity

was exactly what we had been She was quite clear

that she accepted the result of the No ifs, no buts, no EEA,

no one foot in, nor one foot out, That is what the referendum

called for and that is what this Government

is going to deliver, and I am very Our children and

grandchildren and theirs in turn will ask, "What did you do

with this was decided? What do you do at this

crucial juncture? Were you shackled by

convention, fearful Did you dance to the tune

of the Daily Mail, principle and posterity

and for the values of and for the interests of our young

and in fact for the neglected I will support vital

amendments, and if they are not accepted I'm

going to vote against this bill. This house should be

urging a rethink on this This house should be

saying, "Not in our name." A former senior police officer

is worried about the impact My Lords, the terrorists

and the paedophiles and the drug barons will

breathe a sigh of relief. The British ones return

for business as usual as We have once opted out of all these

arrangements and this Prime Minister as Home Secretary opted back into

the most important of the security, law enforcement and justice and

intelligence sharing arrangements. We need a kind of reverse

grandfathering now to accept and acknowledge the judgments of the

CJEU in this narrow sphere, we will, by the noble Lord Finkelstein late

last night in this debate, be holding on to the branch halfway

down the cliff when it breaks. And in that event,

all of the people, my Lords, of Europe will

be at greater risk. It is obviously an important debate

but I hope you will forgive me if I say that there is a certain

degree of unreality about it. Unreality not just because so many

people are anxious to re-fight old battles, but also

that the discussion is about a negotiation,

but there is no negotiation. No negotiation is

taking place at the moment, and so to a certain extent,

it is so much hot air talking about what might happen

on what you might do. It is not until we actually get

into the negotiation that we then will start to encounter reality,

and so the first thing I would want to say to our front

bench is in my view we should trigger article 50

as soon as possible. Maybe not even wait

until the enactment of this. The more time that is spent

before article 50 is enacted, the more time

there is for people to waste their energy

and The Lords will start to debate

possible amendments next week. There will be votes -

and possible Government defeats - Now, the Foreign Secretary Boris

Johnson had his first meeting with the US Secretary

of State Rex Tillerson last week At foreign office question-time,

Mps were curious to know I met Rex Tillerson in Bonn last

Thursday and Friday. We had some very good

conversations and I am sure we will be having many more

meetings in the weeks and months ahead to entrench and deepen

a relationship that has been part of the foundation of global peace

and prosperity for the last 70 Could the Foreign

Secretary confirm to me that when he met

with the Secretary said unequivocally that Her

Majesty's Government thinks the ban on travel by President Trump imposed

to Muslim countries is simply wrong? The honourable member

will know very clearly and very, very well

that this Government did not

support the travel measures that were introduced

by the executive order. We didn't think that

they were something that It wasn't the kind of

policy that we would like to see enacted

in this We made that view very clear

to our friends in America and it was by engaging constructively

with the White House and with others that we were able to secure

the important clarification that the executive order made absolutely no

difference to any British passport holder, irrespective

of country of birth. Was it the Foreign Secretary's

idea to offer a state visit to President Trump

after seven days in office? And given that the Foreign

Secretary once famously declared he wouldn't go to New York

in case he was mistaken for Mr Trump, is there any chance that

President Trump will not come to London on a state visit in case

he is mistaken for the Foreign I'm embarrassed to tell you,

Mr Speaker, that not only... I was mistaken for

Mr Trump I think in A very humbling

experience it was, as you Who was the exact

progenitor of the excellent idea to accord an invitation

to the president to come on a state visit but the invitation

has been issued. I think it is a wholly appropriate

thing for the British Government to Mr Speaker, would my Right

Honourable friend agree that at a time when there is fresh

fighting in the Ukraine, at a time when Russia continues

to carry out large-scale exercises close to the borders of

the Baltic states, some of them with nuclear capable equipments,

would he agree that time in recent years when our

relationship with America and keeping Nato together has been

so important for Europe as a whole? My right honourable

friend is completely right and that is why

it was so important that the Prime

Minister on her very the White House secured from Donald

Trump the 100% commitment to our Nato alliance which has been

a guarantor of peace in our times. President Trump boasts of running

a finely tuned machine, but the truth is that when it comes

to the world's major crises, from Ukraine

to Syria, from Afghanistan Now, I hear from the Secretary

of State that there is new thinking, yet we have yet

to see any incoherent The finely tuned machine hasn't

stalled so much as it hasn't got going yet and the resulting vacuum

is being filled by the Russians, with peace talks on Syria and

Afghanistan taking place without US Is the Secretary of State

happy to keep waiting for President Trump's cue, or is

he capable of thinking for himself? Are we going to see a British

involvement in any of these countries, and if so,

where is he going to I may say, I think

the finely tuned machine that is the Labour Party

is a fine one to offer any kind

of little advice to the American As she knows very well,

it is in fact the UK that has been in the lead on trying to find

a solution in Yemen. It is the UK that is in the lead

in Somalia, in trying to maintain a commitment,

and I think that in all fairness she should recognise

that the current area of diplomacy that is being considered

by the United States in respect of Syria is

a course that the UK has principally advocated, which is one

in which the Russians and the Iranians are separated

in their interests and we move towards a political solution

and it session away from the A Conservative has said taxpayers'

money shouldn't be wasted, as he put it, on trying

to rehabilitate prisoners That comment from Philip Davies came

as the Justice Committee took evidence on proposals to reform

the prison system in I suspect this was proposed to make

rehabilitation a statutory purpose. Is that likely to make any change

to commissioning decisions? It certainly brings

a different focus to commissioning decisions

but, of course, once you have the statutory

purpose, then your eyes are on what are purposes

of the services That is not to say that services

are not already geared towards resettlement

and preparation for realease. But the point is

they will have to be In balance and where we target

scarce resources in the future, value for money

in terms of public money... Then there is a key driver

there to say one of the purposes of imprisionment is

absolutely to focus on that. I'm guessing you would all

welcome the fact that I think it is one of

the things that has I think it is necessary

to have a good and robust understanding of the

sorts of activities you would like to see that you think would lead

to rehabilitation and not just a simple measure of saying,

rehabilitation Rehabilitation for someone

with multiple and complex needs, who is very far away from the labour

market, mental health issues, drug and alcohol

addiction, is going to need a particular kind of rehabilitation

that may be different from someone who is able and engaging

with education and looking for work on the out

and on It strikes me that some offenders

are in a position where they want to turn their lives around and some

of them are determined not to turn Surely we should be encouraging

governments to cherry pick the offenders who want to turn

their lives around and throw the resources at them,

rather than spread them evenly on people who do

not want to turn their lives around. There is a real danger that

if we do not work with those people with complex needs,

they're going to be the people coming in

and out of the prison costing the prison service

a They are going to be

and out of the A, costing the NHS a lot of money.

They are going to be creating more victims

in our communities when they get released

because they do not have the right level of support.

I think it is really, really important that we

look at how people are engaged in the processes and looking at how

many times did you go back and try to change the provision

to make it fit the needs of those individuals that were furthest away?

That might look different for different people.

He was talking about someone with mental health

It might be about informal learning and moving into that

but it is about progress on their individual measures.

By the end of the day, we are trying to measure

the success or otherwise of what the Government is doing

and your premise is basically for the Government to

Nothing has really changed, but I have taken

somebody from being a million miles away

from turning their lives around and he

It's a triumph and isn't it wonderful?

Surely, we need to have some proper measures.

Surely the only real measure should be whether or not

people when they are released from prison reoffend or not.

That is what we're set up to do, to stop people

What you don't want is to incentivise people to put money into

somebody who is going to succeed anyway and then be profligate

That is taking it to an extreme but that would be a

disgraceful use of public money and I can't imagine anybody would set

But you could incentivise bad behaviour.

What you want to do is to try and get the balance, I

would argue, between focusing on people who are change ready and

giving them that push and helping them but there are a whole load of

other people who may become more dangerous if we do not spend

As Nina said, we need to move towards that.

For some people, that will take several times.

We owe it to the public to make sure that

You're watching Tuesday in Parliament with me,

Ministers have put forward plans to stop 'blood stained dictators'

The change, which came during the Criminal Finances Bill,

followed the case of Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian lawyer

who blew the whistle on a massive fraud in that country.

In November 2008, Magnitsky was arrested and

detained, his crime had been to identify

biggest tax fraud in Russian history permitted by the Russian Government

against the investment firm that employed, but also against the

Russian taxpayer to the tune of a mind-boggling 230 million US

For his courage, Magnitsky was jailed and tortured for

almost a year and then ultimately murdered.

Large amounts of the stolen money was subsequently

laundered out of Russia in Hermitage capital

the relative UK authorities of 30 million US dollars that was sent to

the UK between around 2008 and 2012, including by firms owned by the

Despite receiving this evidence, neither the

Metropolitan Police, the Serious Organised Crime Agency,

the Serious Fraud Office, each MRC, nor the

National Crime Agency have opened a single investigation.

And notwithstanding the comments that

were made, this case, I believe, does shine

a light on the weaknesses of

our own justice system, which is really what

We have to stop turning a blind eye to

the blood money of butchers and despots which frankly close all too

freely through some UK businesses, banks and property.

Dominic Raab put forward an amendment to the bill that

would allow judges to freeze the assets of those involved

The minister rejected the proposal arguing it would pave the way

What I have done, though, is come today to the

house with an attempt to put a compromise in the statute that

puts for the first time on record gross

human rights abuse and hopefully we can send the right message to those

regimes around the world and those criminals and individuals, but at

the same time respect law enforcement agencies to make sure

that they can carry out their job unhindered by political

interference, third-party groups or anyone else who may want to use

publicity rather than actual evidence as furthering their cause,

and I think that is something that is really important.

Earlier this year, or last year, the Guardian

revealed through the Panama papers how a powerful member of Gaddafi's

inner circle had built a multi-million pound portfolio of

boutique hotels in Scotland and luxury homes in Mayfair,

He was head of Libya's infrastructure fund for a

decade, has been accused by Government prosecutors in Tripoli of

plundering money intended for schools, hospitals and

Scottish police have confirmed that they are

Libya has made a request for an asset seizure but it

is not as far as I understand been implemented.

Mr Speaker, with the powers in this bill we could have

dealt with injustices like this so much swifter

general terms the provisions within this bill.

Quite simply, those who have blood on their hands for the

worst human rights abuses should not be able to funnal their dirty money

And in a recent article in the New York Times, the

journalist Ben Judah protests, and I quote,

just because there aren't bodies piled up on the streets of

London doesn't mean that London isn't a betting betting goes to pout

The British establishment has long feigned

ignorance of the business, but the London laundromat

is destroying this country's reputation.

It just feels as if the Government still has a view in its

mind which is that you can somehow or other abuse some of these people

around the world and that they want to pussyfoot around the issue.

I just don't think that that meets the

present danger and need and in particular the risk that there is to

the financial impropriety and reputation of this country around

Because we cannot prosper if we allow bribery and corruption

to flourish in this country through the back door.

Last week, when Parliament was in recess, Tony Blair made

a significant intervention in the debate on Brexit.

The former Prime Minister said it was his mission to persuade

the British people to "rise up" against Brexit.

Responding to his remarks the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson

urged the British people to rise up and turn off the TV.

A Labour MP tackled Mr Johnson about his comments.

The fact is that instead of insulting the former Prime

Minister Tony Blair as he did last week,

will he take seriously the

danger to this country of a hard Brexit that

blank cheque and they want a real vote on how good the deal is with

I don't think that anybody can seriously say that

the former Prime Minister had been insulted by any remarks I made last

What I was trying to get over was my strong feeling that the

debate was had last year, everybody understands

that were going forward with a new approach for this

country, a global approach, and it will be a clean

highly successful Brexit, as the Prime Minister has said.

I refer to comments made last week by my

Right Honourable friend the Foreign Secretary.

Would he care to suggest what the great British public should

watch on television, rather than the former

Prime Minister and member for

Sedgefield and his disgraced colleague and guacamole-loving

Well, I'm very, very grateful to my honourable friend.

I hesitate to advise the British public what to watch on television.

But I have to say that I think they will exercise their infinite

sagacity and wisdom in not heeding the sour voices of those who are

trying to overturn the democratic decision of the people of this

country last year to embark on a course that I think will lead

us not only to democratic emancipation but

to a new course of global prosperity?

MPs wanted to know whether scientific collaboration with other

The Government aims to secure the best possible outcome for UK

European Union and bought the EU and the UK have

importance of continuing to work together to produce high-quality

research, so both at home and abroad, we will remain at the

Could I asked the Minister to ensure that scientific cooperation in

Europe is also extended to the preservation

Indeed, especially perhaps as my Right

Honourable friend the Foreign Secretary

is living proof that the

woolly mammoth can return from extension.

Now, do you remember the advice that the then

Conservative Minister - Norman Tebbit - gave to people

He told them that this father had "got on his bike" to look for a job.

Well, those words were thrown back at Lord Tebbit, in good humour,

as he complained about the impact of cyclists.

It sometimes takes over an hour to drive

from Parliament Square to the

That has been caused by the barricades which have

been put up in order to assist cyclists, who also get in the way

The Noble Lord opposite speaks very impertinently towards me and other

people of my age who would find great difficulty in cycling on

But a principal cause of the excess nitrous

oxide in the air in this area of Westminster and along

the embankment is those wretched barricades which

have been put up by the former mayor.

My Lords, I hope I can continue in the right vein by saying

I would advise the circle and district line is a very good way of

getting from here to the tower and that part of London.

A diplomatic response there from the Minister.

Well, that's it from Tuesday in Parliament.

But do join me at the same time tomorrow.

Until then, from me, Kristiina Cooper, goodbye!