28/02/2017 Tuesday in Parliament


28/02/2017

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Hello, welcome to Tuesday In Parliament,

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our look at the best of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

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On this programme:

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Labour accuses the Government of paying for tax cuts

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by reducing benefits.

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What this Government is all about is forcing

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Government departments to meet the Chancellor's spending targets

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so he can pay for further tax giveaways.

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Threatened industrial action by prison officers in England

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and Wales is condemned by a Justice Minister.

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We are clear that action of this nature by the POA

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poses a risk to the safety of prisons and prison staff.

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And a car chief lists his Brexit requests.

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That we remain in a free-trade agreement, that we've got access

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to the customs union, that technology is harmonised

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across Europe, and so "stay as we are" is the ideal

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solution for Nissan.

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But first, Labour has described as "brutal" a Government decision

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to restrict disability benefits.

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In the Commons, the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell,

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claimed Ministers were cutting spending to fund tax "giveaways".

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The Government wants to reverse the effects of court rulings

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which have increased the number of people who can claim the higher

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rate of disability benefit,

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now called "Personal Independence Payments", or PIPs.

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The Government says the rulings would add nearly ?4 billion

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to the benefits bill.

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At Treasury Questions, Mr McDonnell described the kind

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of people the Government now wanted to exclude from PIPs payments.

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This was brutal.

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Last year, when the Government was forced to halt cuts to PIP

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payments to disabled people, the previous Chancellor

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absorbed the costs.

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In this case, are these disabled people being denied benefits

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because the Chancellor has refused to absorb these costs

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of the Upper Tribunal decision?

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Mr Speaker, what we are doing here is restoring Parliament's

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original intention around these payments, ensuring that they go

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to the people that they were intended to go to,

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and making sure that the benefits cap that's in place,

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as part of our fiscal rules, is able to be met.

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John McDonnell.

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One of those people contacted us.

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She has Type II diabetes, myalgia, depression and anxiety,

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and, as a result of the action taken by the Government, will not now

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be extended to support the courts have ordered her.

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It's clear, isn't it, that after last night's announcement

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of further austerity measures by individual departments,

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what this Government is all about is forcing

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Government departments to meet the Chancellor's spending targets

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so he can pay for further tax giveaways to the wealthy?

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The honourable gentleman, I'm afraid, will have to wait till

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next week to find out what my proposals are,

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but let me be clear -

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we have said we have no plans for further welfare

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reforms in this Parliament.

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Later, the Work and Pensions Secretary faced more

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questions from Labour about the latest benefit changes.

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Will the minister confirm, as stated in the impact

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assessment published with the regulation,

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that people suffering from schizophrenia,

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learning disability, autism and dementia will be among

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the worst-affected by these cuts?

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And, Mr Speaker, the cut is being achieved by taking benefit

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away from people whose mobility impairments are the result

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of psychological distress.

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They will no longer be entitled to benefit,

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according to the wording of the regulation.

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Doesn't that directly contradict the Prime Minister's commitment

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to treat mental health on a par with physical health?

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Hear, hear.

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I want to be clear what this is not, that this is not a policy

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change, nor is it intended to make new savings.

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I'd like to reiterate my commitment that there will be no further

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welfare savings beyond those already legislated for.

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This will not result in any claimant seeing a reduction in the amount

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of PIP previously awarded by the DWP.

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Mental health conditions and physical disabilities which lead

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to higher costs will continue to be supported,

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as has always been the case.

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But if everything is working so well, why are my advice surgeries

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full of people who are waiting for their PIP assessments

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for a very long time,

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who are being denied them when they've been

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long-term disabled,

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who are being caused massive amounts of distressed by the process,

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and who feel utter despair at having to have anything to do with it?

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It's clear that different medical conditions will have

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different impacts on people's living and mobility.

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Does my right honourable friend agree that we must recognise this

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simple fact if we are continuing to target resources

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on those who are most vulnerable and most in need?

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A constituent, Catherine, contacted me, and was very concerned

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about how the amendments will impact on her

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when she is transferred from DLA to PIP.

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She currently receives low-rate mobility and suffers from ADHD,

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depression, generalised anxiety and social phobia.

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Her life is severely affected by her mental health.

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She cannot plan the route of a journey and she cannot follow

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the route of a familiar journey.

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Why does the Government want to deny Catherine

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the mobility component of PIP?

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Well, she is not having any of the...

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any changes to the rules that have been put, that she's been applying

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under in the past...

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And I should gently point out to the honourable gentleman that

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these are rules that were passed by a Government of

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which he was a member.

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I have some constituents who are unable to leave their homes

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without assistance due to a physical disability,

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and others who are unable to leave their homes

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because of a mental disability -

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why should one be entitled to receive support via PIP

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and not the other?

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They both will be entitled to PIP, at the level

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as it will be assessed, and, indeed, the only difference...

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Clearly, each individual is different and has different

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levels of difficulty.

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It is often the case that visual or cognitive impairments,

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people who are blind, are not going to have a fluctuating

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condition, which is clearly less amenable to treatment,

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than some other conditions, so it's the level of the difficulty

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in someone's daily life, whether they've got a physical

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or mental health problem, that matters in terms

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of the PIP assessment.

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Damian Green.

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Well, earlier at Treasury Questions, MPs took the opportunity to appeal

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for help in the Budget next week to deal with the acute funding

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problems facing social care in England.

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One Conservative suggested that use be made of National Insurance

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to help pay for the care of elderly and vulnerable people.

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Can I ask the Minister, with a view to long-term sustainable

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financing in health and social care, to look into this as a means

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of depoliticising the debate, and ensuring long-term funding,

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not just today, but for decades to come for health and social care?

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We are mindful of the long-term challenges.

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If you look at the issues recently highlighted by the Office

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for Budget Responsibility in their latest

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fiscal sustainability report, they are laid out quite starkly.

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And in terms of depoliticising, I would say that backing the NHS's

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own plan for its own future in the way that we've done

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is the best way of doing that.

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Back in 2010, to meet the rising costs of social care,

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I proposed a compulsory care levy on all estates.

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From memory, the Conservatives produced an election poster

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with gravestones on it and called it a "death tax".

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I read in today's Times that ministers are now

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considering exactly the same proposal.

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Can this possibly be true?

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No.

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Sir Hugo Swire.

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Thank you, Mr Speaker, but there is an emerging consensus

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that we do need to better integrate our social care

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and health system.

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Given the fact we have already the Better Care Fund

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and the Chancellor's prudent management of our economies,

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if he does have any wriggle room in the forthcoming budget,

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can I ask him if we cannot have some transitional relief for social care

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until we can work out the best model?

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Well, Mr Speaker, the Government has been very clear on a number

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of occasions that we recognise that the pressures in the system,

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additional money has been made available

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through the social care precept...

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How can it be right that those local authorities that are under the most

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pressure in terms of social care can actually raise the least amount

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through the council tax precept that this Government's policy around

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social care has introduced?

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The Better Care Fund, which we have already referred to,

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actually adjusts for that, and, you know, it is...

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There are a range of ways in which we are responding to these

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pressures, which we acknowledge in the social care system.

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Jane Ellison.

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The human rights record of North Korea has been condemned

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in the House of Lords.

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The Government was asked if it had plans to call in

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the North Korean ambassador, following the killing

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of Kim Jong-nam, the half-brother of the country's leader.

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The 45-year-old was at an airport when he was smeared

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with the nerve agent VX.

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Two women have been arrested -

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they say they were told it was a television prank.

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A Foreign Office Minister said the ambassador had

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been spoken to recently.

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On the 14th of February, we summoned the Ambassador

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of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea in response

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to its ballistic missile test on the 11th of February.

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We made clear that such actions were in violation of

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UN Security Council resolutions,

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a threat to international security, and that such

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destabilising activity must stop.

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We continue to be deeply disturbed by their actions, including reports

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that they are responsible for the killing of Kim Jong-nam.

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My Lords, doesn't the horrific use of VX, the toxic nerve agent,

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to assassinate Kim Jong-nam, serve to remind us of North Korea's

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total disregard for international law, whether through the use

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of banned chemical weapons, of which it has some 5,000 tonnes,

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its nuclear and missile tests, or the execution and incarceration

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of hundreds of thousands of its own citizens?

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Lord Alton asked whether the UK Government supported referral

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to the International Criminal Court or a tribunal.

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With regard to the alleged use of VX, Malaysia has

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gathered its own information.

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We have no reason not to believe their conclusions,

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that it is VX, a highly toxic nerve agent, nor that it is DPRK

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that is responsible.

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They have the capacity to, erm, to produce it.

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My Lords, until there is an international awareness

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of that information from Malaysia, we can't take an action

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internationally to condemn what has happened and to provide

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that evidential link between DPRK and the murder of Kim Jong-nam.

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My Lords, China is the key player in relation to North Korea,

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and their action appears to complete the isolation of that country.

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How does the Government interpret their sanctions?

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Is this temporary or can we expect a sea change in China policy?

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The noble lord is right to point to the fact that China has

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indeed now made it clear that they are compliant with

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the UN Security Council resolution on the sanctions on the coal trade

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between DPRK and China.

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It's an important step forward.

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On the position of sanctions, it is all the more significant,

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having regard to the previous ambivalence of the Chinese

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Government towards North Korea.

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Should not these sanctions be warmly welcomed, not only

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here but in the White house, so that whatever their differences,

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China and the United States can make common cause in the containment

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of North Korea?

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Hear, hear.

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The noble lord is absolutely right, and, as the new Trump administration

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has taken office, I think it's important that they and China find

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accord on this matter.

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Has my noble friend any information about the number of Christians

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who are now incarcerated for the sake of their religion

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in North Korea, which is one of the countries where

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they are most harassed?

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My honourable friend is right to raise the plight

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of Christians in North Korea, and it is a fact that,

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although the constitution in DPRK does provide the right to have

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freedom to believe, those who practice religion outside state

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control find themselves subject to appalling persecution.

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It's a matter that we raise frequently with the North Korean

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Government through our embassy in Pyongyang and also

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through the United Nations and the human rights Council,

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but, my Lords, it is a continuing,

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appalling, flagrant breach of international norms.

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The Foreign Office minister, Lady Anelay replying there.

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You're watching our round-up of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

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Still to come:

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The Westminster Pancake Race marks another Shrove Tuesday.

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The Government has won a High Court injunction stopping industrial

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action by prison staff in England and Wales from going ahead.

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Members of the Prison Officers' Association were planning

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to withdraw from voluntary duties in a long-running dispute

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over pay and pensions.

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The action follows the rejection by the association members

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of a new pay and conditions package.

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A Justice Minister was called to answer an urgent

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question in the Commons.

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I am grateful for the chance to update the House

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on this important issue.

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Strike action is unlawful and we have said so to

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the Prison Officers' Association.

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It will seriously disrupt normal operations in prisons

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and whilst we will, of course, take any actions that we can

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to mitigate the risks, we are clear that action of this

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nature by the POA poses a risk to the safety

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of prisons and prison staff.

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The duties that the Prison Officers' Association referred

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to in their bulletin are not voluntary duty.

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These are duties that are a fundamental part of a prison

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officer's role and essential to running a safe and decent prison.

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Mr Speaker, this situation could have easily been avoided.

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Ministers could have spoken to the POA before imposing a pay

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policy which has proven to be so divisive and so unpopular.

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Ministers need to sit down and talk with the POA rather than threaten

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legal action and claim the action is unlawful before any court has

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made any such determination.

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To turn around this mess, Mr Speaker, we need

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a Justice Secretary who is serious, serious about working with prison

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officers and we need a prisons bill which will deliver serious reform.

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Sadly, at the moment, we have neither.

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Can I congratulate him for the excellent work he's doing with

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a difficult pack of cards.

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Would he agree me that a prison officer joins to serve,

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that means you serve in whatever guise without striking?

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I certainly agree with my honourable friend and, in fact,

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the legislation was introduced by the last Labour Government,

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which is why I'm surprised that the Shadow Minister would not

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condemn this unlawful strike action.

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I've listened to the Minister carefully and earlier he said

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he thought that this action was designed to disrupt safe

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and decent running of prisons.

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Does the Minister understand that the whole reason why prison

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officers are withdrawing from these tasks is because we do not have

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safe and decent prisons?

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We have intolerable and dangerous prisons.

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Prisons that I wouldn't want to work in and, I'm sure,

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that the minister wouldn't either.

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How the fight against organised crime will be tackled, once Britain

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has left the EU, has been looked at by the Commons Brexit Committee.

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David Armond, of the National Crime Agency, spoke about the importance

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of cross-border police co-operation.

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Being members of Schengen and having access to the Schengen information

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system, that's linked to the Police National Computer.

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So a policeman, on the streets in Birmingham, can stop a car,

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do a check on it, find it's stolen in France and that the occupants

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are wanted for serious offences.

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Now that, in itself, is an amazing additional protection

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for the UK and the access that we've obtained through Europol

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and the influence that we excert through having a British director

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who's implemented, since 2008, a whole load of systems that

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are really British intelligence management systems, we would have

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quite a steep hill to climb if we were to lose access

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to all of them.

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If you look at the EU agencies, for example, Europol

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then there are a number

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of countries with operational agreements with Europol, which I'm

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sure is the least we would want - US, Australia, Canada,

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I think Columbia, Norway and Switzerland - well,

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those took between five to 12 years to negotiate.

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On the other hand, if you look...

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Five to 12 years?

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Yes, I believe that's right.

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Yeah.

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On the other hand, if you look at Eurojust,

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which is the prosecutorial co-ordination body, I believe the US

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were a admitted to some sort of status within Eurojust

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within about a year of 9/11.

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There will be some great difficulty from the point

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of view of data protection.

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I think that is going to be the single biggest difficulty.

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The challenge is not so much convincing the EU institutions

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to go along with it, as I think it's quite right

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to say that the ministers and the authorities are quite happy

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to continue with the UK, co-operation with the UK,

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but I think the problem is the activists who are going

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to go to court and bring these legal challenges.

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They can't easily be negotiated away because they're based

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on the EU Charter of Rights.

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Of course, as a primary law of the European Union,

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it can't easily be negotiated away.

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They're not going to agree an amendment to the charter

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for the sake of a departing member state.

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So that really is the biggest problem by far,

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I think, in this area.

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Meanwhile, the carmaker Nissan has repeated its request for there to be

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"as little change as possible" when Britain leaves the EU.

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Nissan's senior vice-president, Colin Lawther, told

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the International Trade Committee that his company

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wanted the UK to remain in the customs union.

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You know, we made our position very clear that, before the Brexit vote,

0:18:410:18:44

that Nissan's position was, from a business point of view,

0:18:440:18:46

from assurity point of view, from a stability going forward,

0:18:460:18:50

remaining in the customs union was definitely the best -

0:18:500:18:52

And were you given any promises for the customs union?

0:18:520:18:54

From a...

0:18:540:18:55

No.

0:18:550:18:59

So Nissan's point before the vote was, clearly,

0:18:590:19:01

it is better for us to stay in.

0:19:010:19:04

However, even though we explained that to all of our staff,

0:19:040:19:06

we didn't take a political view.

0:19:060:19:07

So we said to our staff - look, you know, you guys have

0:19:070:19:11

to vote for yourselves and for your families,

0:19:110:19:13

so we didn't take a view.

0:19:130:19:14

So you're quite comfortable out with the customs union?

0:19:140:19:16

No, our position is the same as it was before the vote.

0:19:160:19:19

It would be better to stay in a status quo so that we have

0:19:190:19:22

assurity of business going forward.

0:19:220:19:24

So that would be the best outcome for us at the end

0:19:240:19:27

of the Brexit process, that we remain in a free-trade

0:19:270:19:29

agreement, we've got access to the customs union,

0:19:290:19:31

technology is harmonised across Europe.

0:19:310:19:33

So stay as we are is the ideal solution for Nissan.

0:19:330:19:43

We made a decision it was better to replace Qashqai in the UK

0:19:490:19:53

and bring a car from Japan and produce it in the UK.

0:19:530:19:56

So we have a base business situation which is based

0:19:560:19:58

on a set of circumstances.

0:19:580:19:59

As those circumstances change, and we won't wait until the end

0:19:590:20:02

of the process, we will continually review the decisions

0:20:020:20:04

that we take based on anything that materially changes.

0:20:040:20:06

So at the moment, we've got a set of circumstances that we're quite

0:20:060:20:09

happy with and we've made our decision and we'll honour

0:20:090:20:12

that decision and go forward.

0:20:120:20:13

But if anything materially changes, then we'd review constantly.

0:20:130:20:15

Now, motorists could be facing sizeable increases

0:20:150:20:17

in their insurance premiums following changes brought

0:20:170:20:18

in by the Government to personal injury compensation payments.

0:20:180:20:21

Young drivers have been warned that their annual car premiums

0:20:210:20:23

could rise by as much as ?1,000 a year.

0:20:230:20:25

Drivers aged over 65 could be facing paying an extra ?300 a year.

0:20:250:20:35

The compensation changes and the effect of them were raised

0:20:360:20:38

at a session of the Transport Committee.

0:20:380:20:40

Yesterday, the Justice Secretary announced a reduction in insurers

0:20:400:20:42

discount rates on compensation from 2.5% to minus 0.7%.

0:20:420:20:48

It's been reported that's going to have a very negative

0:20:480:20:50

impact on young drivers.

0:20:500:20:52

Can you tell us what that impact will be and what they can expect

0:20:520:20:55

to pay in the future?

0:20:550:20:56

Yes.

0:20:560:20:59

So that change is affecting the cost of paying out a large claim and

0:20:590:21:03

if you build a model of large claims cost,

0:21:030:21:06

the single biggest factor that's driving the higher large claim,

0:21:060:21:09

compared to other drivers, is age, and it's been widely reported by PwC

0:21:090:21:14

that young drivers, 18 to 22, would expect an ?1,000 increase

0:21:140:21:21

in their premium, just from a single stroke of the Lord Chancellor's

0:21:210:21:24

pen.

0:21:240:21:25

?1,000.

0:21:250:21:27

So of the people paying ?4,000, you're saying that

0:21:270:21:29

could go up to ?5,000?

0:21:290:21:30

That was the estimate made by PwC.

0:21:300:21:32

So, yes.

0:21:320:21:33

Do you think that's acceptable?

0:21:330:21:34

Isn't this going beyond the bounds of reasonableness?

0:21:340:21:36

Can I take that?

0:21:360:21:39

Yes, please, do.

0:21:390:21:41

The Lord Chancellor's decision yesterday is absolute madness.

0:21:410:21:47

As you have rightly pointed out, it will add significant cost

0:21:470:21:56

to the cost of the young driver's car insurance premiums.

0:21:560:21:59

As Simon's articulated, the PwC estimate was around ?1,000.

0:21:590:22:02

It's really important that this group of MPs,

0:22:020:22:09

and I would urge you to grasp this issue and make it very clear

0:22:090:22:12

to the Lord Chancellor the significant impact that this

0:22:120:22:15

is going to have on young drivers.

0:22:150:22:19

You've got a petition of 180,000 people who indicated their concern

0:22:190:22:25

at the cost of car insurance, I think all of the market estimates

0:22:250:22:35

that have been put out over the last 24-hours, would indicate

0:22:400:22:42

that the Lord Chancellor's decision yesterday is going

0:22:420:22:44

to make car insurance for young drivers skyrocket.

0:22:440:22:46

Now, we could possibly describe them as something

0:22:460:22:48

of a Westminster dynasty.

0:22:480:22:49

A member of the latest generation of the Hogg family, Charlotte Hogg,

0:22:490:22:52

has just been appointed a Bank of England deputy governor.

0:22:520:22:55

Her father was the former Agriculture Minister,

0:22:550:22:56

Douglas Hogg, now Lord Hailsham.

0:22:560:22:57

Her mother, Sarah Hogg, was a Downing Street

0:22:570:22:59

adviser to John Major.

0:22:590:23:00

And her grandfather, the previous Lord Hailsham,

0:23:000:23:02

was Lord Chancellor.

0:23:020:23:05

At the Commons Treasury Committee, Charlotte Hogg, who's an economist,

0:23:050:23:07

was asked about her suitability to serve on the Bank of England's

0:23:070:23:10

Monetary Policy Committee or MPC.

0:23:100:23:17

Have you ever had a job which requires you to think

0:23:210:23:24

through how the MPC is arriving at its decisions?

0:23:240:23:26

Well, when you make, both in the credit card business

0:23:260:23:33

and in the retail banking business, you're constantly making

0:23:330:23:35

pricing decisions.

0:23:350:23:36

What price shall we set on mortgages?

0:23:360:23:38

what price should we set on credit cards?

0:23:380:23:40

What's the right rate for our savings products?

0:23:400:23:41

And all of those factor in a range of things,

0:23:410:23:44

including what the interest rate is going to be and how we're going

0:23:440:23:47

to fund ourselves as a bank as well.

0:23:470:23:57

The reason that I ask that question, is it the majority of people

0:23:580:24:01

who gravitate to the MPC job are people who have done that?

0:24:010:24:04

That's right.

0:24:040:24:05

And have been thinking professionally for a long time

0:24:050:24:07

about that factors that go to make those decisions.

0:24:070:24:09

You haven't got that experience?

0:24:090:24:11

I don't and I think it's a plus because the MPC is made up,

0:24:110:24:14

as we know, of nine people, all with independent votes,

0:24:140:24:16

and everything one learns about decision-making,

0:24:160:24:20

is you want a difference of views and a difference of experience

0:24:200:24:23

coming into this decision...

0:24:230:24:24

So we can look to you to break down groupthink?

0:24:240:24:26

I think groupthink is not alive and well at the bank anyway,

0:24:260:24:29

but I think it certainly helps to have a different set of cognitive

0:24:290:24:32

experiences and a different set of careers serving the same

0:24:320:24:38

objective and the same mission.

0:24:380:24:40

Charlotte Hogg.

0:24:400:24:41

Finally, it's been Shrove Tuesday.

0:24:410:24:42

And, yes, the annual Pancake Race alongside the Palace of Westminster

0:24:420:24:44

has been taking place.

0:24:450:24:51

This year it was a keenly fought contest between MPs,

0:24:510:24:55

peers and the Westminster press.

0:24:550:25:01

3-2-1

0:25:010:25:01

3-2-1 -

0:25:010:25:01

3-2-1 - GO!

0:25:010:25:04

The race was a relay around 10 laps of part of Victoria Tower Gardens.

0:25:040:25:10

It was all in aid of the disability charity, Rehab.

0:25:100:25:15

And the winner was...

0:25:150:25:16

I hope I get it right.

0:25:160:25:19

..a decisive win for the MPs.

0:25:190:25:28

CHEERING

0:25:290:25:30

Naturally enough, there were scenes of wild delight

0:25:300:25:32

at the finishing post.

0:25:320:25:33

And, no, I'm not going to say that's the end of this flipping programme!

0:25:330:25:36

But do join me again for our next daily round-up.

0:25:360:25:39

Until then, from me, Keith Macdougall, goodbye.

0:25:390:25:43

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