12/12/2017 Tuesday in Parliament


12/12/2017

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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the programme.

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Coming up in the next half hour:

Concerns that the Brexit Bill

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is a Government power-grab.

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What this House being asked again

and again his take on trust that

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Ministers will not abuse these

powers.

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Ministers will not

abuse these powers.

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A desperate call for better

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funding of refuges.

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The bare minimum is that someone --

someone should be no more than a

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phone call away, these people are at

risk, they are in danger.

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phone call away, these people

are at risk, they are in danger.

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And on National Postal Workers' Day,

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one MP suggests

a quite radical gift.

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Renationalize...

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Renationalize...

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But first, we're now

three-quarters of the way

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through the detailed deliberations

of the European Union

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Withdrawal Bill.

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And Tuesday was all

about Henry VIII!

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Well, not so much him,

but the powers he held.

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In 1539 the Statute

of Proclamations was passed.

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This gave Henry the power

to legislate by proclamation.

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What on earth has that

got to do with Brexit?

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Well, there are Henry VIII powers

in the EU Withdrawal Bill.

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These would enable ministers

to repeal or amend measures

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without further parliamentary

scrutiny after the bill's

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been passed into law.

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And some MPs don't approve.

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It's not an exaggeration to say that

this is a massive potential transfer

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of legislative competence from

Parliament to government. And it is

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a sweeping power that would

certainly make Henry VIII blush. If

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you are to see it today. My

amendment 57 proposes deleting the

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sweeping measure of that particular

sub-clause because Ministers have

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not ensured that their powers are as

limited as possible, quite the

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contrary they have ensured that they

are as sexually wide as possible.

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Would he not agree with me that

whilst a member... Says that there

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might be primary legislation in

relation to trades... Those bills

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are very likely to have the same

Henry VIII powers in them.

Will

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that's it, I think a different

pieces of subsequent legislation

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which are also opening up this

precedent, patting at members of

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Parliament saying don't you trouble

yourselves we will sort out all

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these areas, you will just go away

and if you really really object you

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can petition us about it which is

effectively with the provisions are

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saying. That is not good enough.

The

Bill itself could be used further

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Henry VIII powers. If this bill is

passed an amended we face the

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prospect of Ministers, perhaps not

this Minister, and perhaps not

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Ministers in this government but

Ministers having the ability to use

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the Henry VIII powers in the built

in for further such powers onto

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themselves or other UK institution.

Delegated legislation, piled upon

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the delegated legislation, I would

argue that that is an outcome that

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no member of this House should

regard as an acceptable prospect.

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The point is it is possible using

the powers conferred under clause

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seven as it is currently drafted, as

with so much of this bill what this

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House is being asked again, and

again, is to take on trust that

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Ministers will not abuse these

powers.

It's already been mentioned

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about the working Time directive,

48, a weekly work. I'm not

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suggesting that the Government

Minister necessarily want use these

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powers to completely overturn that,

and substitute 48 with 72, I'm not

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suggesting, but it may well be that

a Minister in the future within this

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period of the transition will find

that the 48 hours is overly

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prescriptive as in a mandatory sense

of them I choose to make that more

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of I and advisory notion and

something that is absolute and can

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be challenged. And with a stroke of

a pan overnight the actual rights

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and data rights at work for millions

of people I work in this country

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could somebody wrote it.

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for the creation of a committee

to sift through all legislation that

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won't be subject to the usual

parliamentary scrutiny -

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the "statutory instruments" or SIs.

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Much is going to depend on the

common-sense of the in how will

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those were going to be appointed a

committee are chosen. There are of

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this House, on all sides, who have a

keen understanding of what a

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statutory instrument is, a sack -- a

keen understanding of how it should

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work, and an ability to sniff out

when it is being misused. And it is

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those individuals which if I may say

to my old friends, who are the ones

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who ought to be appointed. The

conservative MPs who tabled the Bill

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said he would tab key.

The political

costs of his front bench, to my

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front bench of going against a

recommendation of the sifting

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committee will be significant. It

will have to give a reason. Why

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isn't this agreement. The Minister

will be summoned. To explain his or

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her departments position. And it

will be tagged on the order paper

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that this is I, this has not been

agreed to sifting committee and

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government.

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The Brexit minister denied there

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was any power-grabbing going on.

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It is the case of the Government

wishes to take the minimum powers

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necessary, the minimum powers

required to do the job before us.

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Which is to deliver a working

statute by accident. We do not

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intend to make any major changes in

policy between ash beyond those

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which are appropriate. Beyond those

which are appropriate to deliver a

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working statute book where the law

after exit data substantially the

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same before exit day so that the

public, so that individuals and

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businesses can rely upon it.

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And scrutiny of the Brexit Bill

continues on Wednesday

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with the Government expected

to face its toughest day yet.

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Now, the Home Affairs Committee

is examining what action

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the Government could take to stop

demonstrations taking place directly

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outside abortion clinics.

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Two abortion providers told MPs that

women were being harassed

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and suggested that a "buffer

zone" would help.

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But anti-abortion protesters

insisted they were simply "pavement

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counsellors" helping women

in desperate situations

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to make a "true choice".

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We see an escalation both in the

size and in the tactics used, we've

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seen across the UK now, protests and

other harassment. Not only are

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outside dedicated sensors, but in GP

surgeries and NHS properties. Mostly

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we a change in tactics from what our

staff use to describe over the

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previous 20 years as usually silent

prayer, to now engaging directly

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with our service users to point of

physically grabbing and blocking

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them. And using other means of

intimidation. We had one service

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user recently say that she was

greeted outside the clinic by a

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protester or sidewalk counsellor

with the mummy please don't kill me,

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I love you mummy. They are told that

they will die of cancer, that God

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will punish them, they are holy

water thrown at them.

God help me I

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just hope that the people on the

panel will ask for a very concrete

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evidence of this, none -- none of

you will represent an reduced

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evidence against you just because

they say to be so. ... Have two

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cameras trained on the base their

book a new and in spring this year

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just so they can have a better view

of us all the time. That we're

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blocking women enter, were grabbing

hold of them were shutting the gate

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of women, where Facebook live Street

and women. All these things are

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happening the sole evidence

otherwise no evidence of it. There's

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no evidence because it is not

happening.

Have been cases where was

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by, whether have been cases of

somebody standing in front of an

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entrance or following somebody was

left the clinic, or sending

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threatening messages to staff, do

you agree that that is intimidation

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and that it should not happen?

To

the best of my knowledge none of

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those in incidence exists and I

believe that they should not happen.

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of the Unborn Child doesn't take

part in vigils but supports

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organisations that do.

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Many women that are arriving at

abortion clinics and they're not

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decided they've not got a clear-cut

decision yes I want to go through

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with my abortion. Huge pressure is

on these women, from boyfriends to

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families, they are worried about the

future, there is some peaceful

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prayer for woman, person offering

him a lifeline, -- offering them

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alternatives. And they take that.

Let's figure out these women. Whose

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lives have been turned around for

the better because they've

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encountered a pro-life pavement

counsellor who has given them a true

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choice about the decision that

they're facing.

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Abortion

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providers

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pointed to Australia

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where clinics have buffer zones

of 150 metres.

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Clare Murphy said the protests

were forcing women to

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turn to other means.

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Particularly where there are

activist potentially with cameras,

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women were in situations where they

just cannot risk their

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confidentiality, they cannot risk

the family finding out. Who are

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going online to order, to try to

order pills to try and take at home

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because they feel that this activity

as I clinics is just an absolute,

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this is an absolute impediment to

them accessing the services.

Would

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you be prepared to come to a

voluntary agreement that you would

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voluntarily effectively operate a

buffer zone and would not be a

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certain distance from the clinic

doors so that nobody had to pass you

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on the way to the clinic.

Looking at

the hundreds of women we see every

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year who take our help and feel that

they haven't had up to instantly

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dump dead inside his clinics, I'm

noticing anyways I'm going to move

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away from the nearest opportunity to

give the woman's the leaflet as she

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is going the door.

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The debate about abortion clinics.

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Back in the Commons,

there was a call for new powers

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to stop stalkers and domestic

abusers using the courts to cause

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further distress to their victims.

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A Plaid Cymru MP wants courts to be

able to dismiss "meritless

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applications" amid concerns that

"baseless, vexatious"

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claims were being made

in the civil courts.

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The purpose of this bill is to limit

the ability of perpetrators of

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primarily domestic abuse, stalking,

and harassment, their ability to

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use, indeed misuse, or abuse, family

and civil courts as a cynical and

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calculus -- totally a method to

cause further distress and to

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exercise deliberate control over the

actions of their victims.

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exercise deliberate control over

the actions of their victims.

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One victim had faced repeated court

cases in which he had to face

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being questioned by his stalker

who was under a restraining order:

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Lucy's partner had a restraining

order, having been charged with

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stalking her. He is taking Lucy to

court 15 times in civil and family

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courts. This is cost around £25,000.

But many people she is not eligible

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for legal aid in the circumstances.

Victims of abuse often -- years of

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abuse, are obliged to present core

protocol to face her abusers, to sit

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with them in waiting rooms, to be in

close proximity to them in court

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rooms, and to undergo cross in

person.

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rooms, and to undergo

cross in person.

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And she said if cases

were allowed to go ahead,

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the victims of abuse or stalking

should be allowed to give evidence

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behind a screen or by video link.

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Liz Saville Roberts was allowed

to introduce her bill

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but without government support it

has little chance of becoming law.

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You're watching Tuesday

in Parliament, with me, Mandy Baker.

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Don't forget you can find all our

programmes on the BBC Iplayer.

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Now, plans to change the way refuges

for victims of domestic violence

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are funded have been strongly

criticised by MPs.

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The Government proposes giving local

councils a protected grant to pay

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for all supported housing.

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This would cover refuges

but would also include housing

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for other groups of people such

as offenders, drug

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addicts and the homeless.

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In Westminster Hall,

the Labour MP Jess Phillips related

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some of the experiences she had

when she worked for

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the organisation, Women's Aid.

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I remember a woman coming into the

refuge where I worked, she could not

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speak or eat, as she had been part

of her control. I will never forget

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what watching the refuge workers at

sitting her for hours, gently

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feeding her, teaching her how to

feed herself again. I rub her

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another family where the mother had

been so belittled, so dehumanize by

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her abuser that she could not parent

your kids any more. She had no power

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or influence over them at all. She

criticised a proposal to hunt -- the

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bare minimum is that someone should

be no more than a phone call away,

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these people are at risk, how's the

going to, this money and what

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they're spending it on. ,

commissioned actually help people.

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Because local need which is what has

been outlined has been very

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different things. I want is a little

girls given back their childhood. I

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want to securing well-paid support

workers sitting over their clients

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were so traumatised the cannot eat.

I want lives to be rebuilt. I don't

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want a bed for the night, I know my

local schools also played an

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important role fighting has schools

in which there is violence.

... We

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also need help to give victims the

competent support to extirpate

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themselves and toxic relationships

and try to instill faith in their

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own strength to live with a violent

or abusive partner. Refugees can

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play crucial role in nine the

Government proposal is not changing

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the entitlement of the services,

nonetheless I'm very glad the

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Government is taking aromatic

approach by committing to her view

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of the new funding to ensure that

his work is at this shed.

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Following the coalition government's

decision to transfer the support

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element of funding for refugees

into local authority budgets,

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while making huge cuts to council

funding, 17% of specialist refugees

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have closed by 2014 and it's

little wonder, then,

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that putting the entirety of state

funding for refugees into the hands

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of already under pressure local

authorities has caused the member

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for Birmingham Yardley

and others working in

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the sector so much concern.

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There have been several family

members that have been

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direct victims of quite

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extreme domestic abuse and I've seen

through luck, through their own

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strength, and energy

and determination that they've been

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able to change that trajectory

and make sure it wasn't

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something that was repeated

for future generations.

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I think it is down to their

character and luck that they've been

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able to do that and that is not

something that is afforded

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to everyone and that is why

government must intervene.

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The new funding model

will see all housing costs,

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core rent and eligible service

charges funded by a ring fenced

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grants to be distributed by local

authorities and we intend that ring

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fence to remain in the long term.

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We also intend to use grant

conditions to ensure

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that the funding is spent

where it is intended.

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What I'd like to do is invite

the honourable lady for Yardley

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to meet with myself and my

honourable friend to discuss some

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of these issues in more depth,

particularly in terms of appropriate

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accommodation and the examples

that she mentioned in that sense,

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the wider issues that she raised.

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As members have pointed out as well,

there is a consultation on funding

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which closes on the 23rd of January.

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So there is still time

for organisations to have their say

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and I would encourage them to come

forward and do that.

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I welcome the Minister's

statement and what I will say

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is that the reality on the ground

never feels quite like what is being

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presented to me at whichever

particular dispatch box

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but I will never ever ever stop

pointing that out until what is said

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to me feels exactly like what it

feels like to get someone a refuge

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bed at ten to five when the office

is shutting on a Friday.

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Because, at the moment

it feels impossible.

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At the weekend the chairman

of a major London

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hospital trust resigned.

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Lord Kerslake claimed that ministers

were simply not addressing

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the financial challenges

facing the NHS.

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But when an urgent question

about his resignation

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was asked in the Commons,

he came under sustained attack

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from Conservative MPs.

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Kings is receiving substantial

financial support from

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the Department of Health.

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During this financial year the trust

is receiving £135 million of support

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in order to maintain

front line services.

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This is the second highest level

of support across England.

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Both the level of deficit and speed

of deterioration is an acceptable,

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as I'm sure all honourable members

would agree and while no trust

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or hospital is an island,

it is right that those charged

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with leading it should take

responsibility for such results.

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The chief financial officer

and Chief Operating Officer both

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resigned last month and, as we know,

Lord Kerslake left on Sunday.

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The trust will now receive even more

support with the appointment

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of a financial improvement director.

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The organisation will be

required to implement a plan

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to prove its finances to be more

closely monitored

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by NHS Improvement.

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On top of special measures

and subject to due process,

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NHS Improvement intends to appoint

Ian Smith as a new and experienced

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interim chair for Kings to take

control of the organisation.

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Harriet Harman.

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In

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Doesn't the Minister realise

that the problem at Kings is not

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the leadership any more

than it is the growing number

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of patients or the dedicated staff.

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The problem at Kings

is not enough money.

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And he shows no recognition

of the fact that over the last

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two years they've already cut

£80 million, double the rate that

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other hospitals have had to cut,

and they've taken on an ailing trust

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in order to help out the wider NHS

and now they've been told

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that they've got to make

even further cuts.

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Several South London MPs pointed

to the background behind

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the financial problems at Kings.

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The root of this current financial

crisis go back to 2013

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to the collapse of the South London

health care trust and the decision

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to incorporate two additional

hospitals which were failing

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in their services into Kings trust

without adequate funding

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to support that decision.

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This has been followed by

year-on-year real term revenue cuts,

0:20:020:20:04

next to zero capital funding

and all the time demand and need

0:20:040:20:07

in our community is going up.

0:20:070:20:11

their work calls for a commission to

be setup to look the issues.

0:20:110:20:17

Over the decades we have perpetrated

the fiction that we can

0:20:170:20:20

have a Scandinavian level of public

service an American-style levels of

0:20:200:20:22

taxation and this is the reason why.

0:20:220:20:24

I would ask the Minister to heed

the call of the member of Parliament

0:20:240:20:27

for Totnes and many others

across this house and set up

0:20:270:20:30

a proper convention to look

at what is the sustainable model,

0:20:300:20:33

not just for Kings but for the whole

of the NHS so that we can

0:20:330:20:37

continue to get the services

our constituents deserve.

0:20:370:20:42

A series of Conservatives attacked

the record of Kings.

0:20:420:20:50

Under Lord Kerslake's watch £715,000

last year was spent off

0:20:500:20:52

payroll on an interim director.

0:20:520:20:53

£30,000 a month was spent

on temporary managers.

0:20:530:20:57

There is a problem in this country

with this scandalous waste

0:20:570:21:01

of tax payers' money.

0:21:010:21:04

What we have here is one of Labour's

top advisers jumping in in a blaze

0:21:040:21:07

of politically motivated publicity

before being pushed out for woeful

0:21:070:21:10

financial mismanagement.

0:21:100:21:12

Given the noble Lord's Kerslake

much-publicised association

0:21:120:21:15

with the current Labour leadership

should it come as any surprise

0:21:150:21:23

that the trust he was chairing

would run out of taxpayers money.

0:21:230:21:26

And isn't the truth that he actually

jumped and squeaked

0:21:260:21:28

before he was pushed.

0:21:280:21:30

Now, rail fares are about

to see their largest

0:21:300:21:32

increase for five years.

0:21:320:21:35

Fares in Britain will go up by

an average of 3.4% from 2nd January.

0:21:350:21:38

The increase is the

biggest since 2013.

0:21:380:21:41

The price rise will affect regulated

fares, which includes season

0:21:410:21:44

tickets, and unregulated fares,

such as off-peak leisure tickets.

0:21:440:21:48

In the Lords peers wanted

to know why such a big

0:21:480:21:50

increase was necessary.

0:21:500:21:54

An annual season ticket from Swindon

to London will increase by £304.

0:21:540:22:00

For many years now the government

has frozen fuel duty to help

0:22:000:22:10

motorists so will the Minister agree

that government should now freeze

0:22:110:22:14

rail fares for the coming year

to help rail passengers?

0:22:140:22:23

The noble lady raises

the point on freezing fuel duty

0:22:230:22:26

which is obviously widely welcomed

by motorists following the budget,

0:22:260:22:31

I'm afraid were not able to freeze

rail fares because by doing

0:22:310:22:35

so we would have to decrease

the investment in our

0:22:350:22:39

which is sorely needed.

0:22:390:22:49

Not only is the whole

0:22:510:22:52

area of rail fares very complicated

it is in fact discriminatory

0:22:520:22:55

when you look at many people in this

country who do not have access

0:22:550:22:58

to Internet or to computers

and they find trying to get

0:22:580:23:01

deals on railways almost

impossible and they also find,

0:23:010:23:03

like I do, that the stations are not

always accessible because the staff

0:23:030:23:09

are on training or sick and we stand

there in the rain waiting for

0:23:090:23:12

the train, it's not a good picture.

0:23:120:23:22

My Lords, I recognise that the fare

system can sometimes be complicated

0:23:230:23:25

and indeed illogical.

0:23:250:23:28

Of course, many tickets are now

bought online but for those

0:23:280:23:31

who don't use the Internet the rail

minister is working on a fares

0:23:310:23:34

and ticketing action plan.

0:23:340:23:35

Amongst other things,

they are working on reducing jargon

0:23:350:23:37

and improving the vending machines

at stations and they've

0:23:370:23:40

extended the availability

of advanced purchase fares.

0:23:400:23:43

Which you can now purchase

at the station on the day of travel.

0:23:430:23:46

Well, it may have escaped

your notice but Tuesday

0:23:460:23:50

was National Postal Workers' Day.

0:23:510:23:52

The event is organised

by the Communications Workers Union.

0:23:520:23:55

Members across the Commons

agreed postmen and women

0:23:550:23:57

did an excellent job.

0:23:570:24:00

But one MP called for

a dramatic policy change.

0:24:000:24:07

Royal Mail was up for sale

under this government

0:24:070:24:10

the privatisation they

faced worsening conditions on tax

0:24:100:24:12

and pensions and the prospect of

more job losses.

0:24:120:24:14

Will the Minister

re-nationalise the Royal Mail?

0:24:140:24:16

Minister!

0:24:160:24:22

I'd like to start by heartily

agreeing

0:24:220:24:24

with the right

honourable gentleman's celebration

0:24:240:24:32

of our postal workers today who will

deliver,

0:24:320:24:37

as he says, in all weather

to 29 million addresses across the

0:24:370:24:39

country over the festive season.

0:24:390:24:41

I can't agree with him that

renationalisation is the answer.

0:24:410:24:43

Does the Minister agree with me that

regardless of ownership Royal Mail

0:24:430:24:46

needs to continue to modernise

and become more efficient because it

0:24:460:24:49

operates in a very increasingly

competitive marketplace.

0:24:490:24:50

Minister!

0:24:500:24:52

My honourable friend

makes a very good point.

0:24:520:24:56

When it was privatised,

Amazon was one of Royal Mail's

0:24:560:24:58

biggest customers.

0:24:580:24:59

Amazon now is one of its

biggest competitors.

0:24:590:25:02

So my honourable

friend is absolutely

0:25:020:25:03

right.

0:25:030:25:06

More investment required

in technology and in modernisation.

0:25:060:25:08

Margot James.

0:25:080:25:11

So that ends Day Six of detailed

debate on the EU Withdrawal Bill.

0:25:110:25:14

And important though it is,

it can be a bit, well, dry.

0:25:140:25:21

The power could not be used

to remove functions relating

0:25:210:25:24

to rights and protections,

as are the concerns of the Amendment

0:25:240:25:28

342 and new clause 37,

unless somehow they became deficient

0:25:280:25:31

outside the EU and removing

functions entirely was

0:25:310:25:33

an appropriate response.

0:25:330:25:35

All of which would, of course,

be laid out in the accompanying

0:25:350:25:38

explanatory memorandum.

0:25:380:25:40

Taking dryness to a whole

new dimension:

0:25:400:25:42

the Brexit

minister, Steve Baker.

0:25:420:25:46

And that's it from me,

Mandy Baker no relation.

0:25:460:25:48

Do join me again at

the same time tomorrow.

0:25:480:25:52

But for now, goodbye.

0:25:520:25:58

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