27/02/2018 Tuesday in Parliament


27/02/2018

Highlights of proceedings in Parliament on Tuesday 27 February, presented by Alicia McCarthy.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 27/02/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello there, and welcome

to Tuesday in Parliament.

0:00:210:00:24

Coming up on this programme:

MPs and experts talk

0:00:240:00:26

trade after Brexit.

0:00:260:00:30

With the former head

of the World Trade Organization

0:00:300:00:32

predicting new deals

won't compensate for the loss

0:00:320:00:34

of business with the the EU.

0:00:340:00:36

The 1% you can gain their will be

comparable to the five, six or 7%

0:00:360:00:43

you would lose on the other side.

0:00:430:00:47

A committee of MPs asks

0:00:470:00:48

if there's enough information

0:00:480:00:49

for smokers about e-cigarette.

0:00:490:00:57

And the governments urge to act

to help end a hunger strike

0:00:570:01:00

of the Yarl's Wood Detention Centre.

0:01:000:01:02

One woman describes it as being

kidnapped. Not knowing when it is

0:01:020:01:05

going to end or what is going to

happen to her.

0:01:050:01:07

But first...

0:01:070:01:08

In a speech on Tuesday

morning, the international

0:01:080:01:10

Trade Secretary Liam Fox said

britain must be free

0:01:100:01:12

to make its own trade

deals outside Europe,

0:01:120:01:14

if it's to seize new opportunities

to sell to developing countries.

0:01:140:01:18

Labour wants the UK to form

a new customs union,

0:01:180:01:21

but Doctor Fox insisted that

would be a complete sell-out

0:01:210:01:23

of Britain's national interest.

0:01:240:01:28

His speech came as a former

permanent secretary

0:01:280:01:30

at the Department for

International Trade had described

0:01:300:01:36

described Brexit as,

"giving up a 3-course meal in return

0:01:360:01:40

for a packet of crisps,"

0:01:400:01:41

A comment raised by a Labour MP

at Treasury Questions.

0:01:410:01:45

Does he agree with the permanent

secretary that giving up the single

0:01:460:01:48

market and the customs Union is like

giving up a 3-course meal for a

0:01:480:01:51

packet of crisps in the future? If

he does not agree, then can he

0:01:510:01:55

identify specific evidence his book

whoa department has seen the future

0:01:550:01:59

trade agreements will outweigh the

damage of leaving the single market

0:01:590:02:04

customs union for businesses and

jobs across the country, but

0:02:040:02:06

reticulated the Northeast.

Hear,

hear!

0:02:060:02:07

.

Mr Speaker, it is the Government's

intention to maintain the highest

0:02:070:02:15

possible access for British

businesses to European Union

0:02:150:02:18

markets. And the honourable Lady is

right that we should approach this

0:02:180:02:21

on an evidence base is. We should

look for the evidence of value of

0:02:210:02:26

our trade flows with Europe, what

that generates in the UK in terms of

0:02:260:02:30

jobs, and we should look objectively

at the opportunities that lie with

0:02:300:02:36

third country trade deals and the

likely profile of new jobs and new

0:02:360:02:43

trade and new opportunities that can

be created come and we shall waive

0:02:430:02:45

those carefully.

0:02:450:02:48

But another quote appeared to have

the Chancellor a little stumped.

0:02:480:02:51

Labor's Stella Creasy

raised comments from

0:02:510:02:52

the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

0:02:530:02:58

He's used a BBC interview to dismiss

concerns that a hard

0:02:580:03:01

Irish border would emerge

after leaving the EU customs union,

0:03:010:03:03

suggesting the lack of border checks

between Camden and Westminster

0:03:030:03:06

did not stop motorists paying

the congestion charge.

0:03:060:03:10

Could the Chancellor set out the

benefits or otherwise of the

0:03:100:03:15

arrangements the Government appears

to have for a customs union between

0:03:150:03:19

the Camden, is lifting and

Westminster?

LAUGHTER

0:03:190:03:28

I'm sure, Mr Speaker, when I call a

home and reflect on the deep meaning

0:03:280:03:32

of that question will become clear

to me. But what I will say in

0:03:320:03:37

response to the honourable Lady is

that if we look at the way goods and

0:03:370:03:40

services flow freely between

different parts of our own economy,

0:03:400:03:42

and indeed it's a different parts of

the United Kingdom, we see at once

0:03:420:03:47

the huge benefit that it brings

having frictionless borders as we

0:03:470:03:52

move our goods and services.

0:03:520:04:01

Well, by coincidence, the former

general of the World Trade

0:04:010:04:03

Organization was giving evidence

to MPs on the Brexit committee,

0:04:030:04:06

and he was asked about the border

between Northern Ireland

0:04:060:04:08

and the Republic.

0:04:080:04:09

Currently on this border, if we

resorted to WTO rules, how would the

0:04:090:04:15

WTO regard the border between

Northern Ireland and the Irish

0:04:150:04:20

Republic? And what would they expect

to happen at that border between

0:04:200:04:25

Northern Ireland and the Irish

Republic? Irish Republic, being a

0:04:250:04:30

member of the UN Northern Ireland of

course being outside the US the

0:04:300:04:34

Brexit.

Whatever option you take,

either a bilateral agreement or the

0:04:340:04:45

WTO option, UK exiting EU meaning

Northern Ireland exiting EU, this

0:04:450:04:56

will necessitate a border.

0:04:560:04:59

He suggested one possible model

like that of Macau and China.

0:04:590:05:04

In order to be a WTO member, you

don't need to be sovereign. You need

0:05:040:05:08

to have another member's customs,

which is something which Macau, Hong

0:05:080:05:18

Kong has, whereas in the case of mad

cow they are clearly belonging to

0:05:180:05:21

China. But they are members of the

WTO in their own right, because they

0:05:210:05:26

have an autonomous trade. And the

Macau option would be that you

0:05:260:05:31

should think it out, giving to

Northern Ireland. The same tray

0:05:310:05:39

capacity as China has given to

Macau, which doesn't mean that Macau

0:05:390:05:42

doesn't belong to China. And then

you have the single system. Apply

0:05:420:05:51

the same trade relations as Ireland.

Otherwise you have to have a vote.

0:05:510:06:01

Again, where is this border? Is it

north of us, is the East, West? That

0:06:010:06:08

is politically and extremely complex

question. But in my view, and I am

0:06:080:06:15

putting this very simply as an

expert, if it is not East and West

0:06:150:06:19

it has to be North and South.

0:06:190:06:21

So, what was his view

of our future trade prospects?

0:06:210:06:23

I'm not seeing the UK will not have

trade opportunities, which it may

0:06:240:06:29

not have today as part of the EU.

But I would very much doubt as an

0:06:290:06:38

expert, and again I am not entering

any politics, that the 1% you can

0:06:380:06:46

gain their will be comparable to the

five, six or 7% you will use on the

0:06:460:06:50

other side.

Pascal let me.

0:06:500:06:56

Now, the former chief executive

0:06:560:06:57

of the collapsed construction firm

0:06:570:07:01

Carillion has said he's perplexed

by the Government's decision not

0:07:010:07:03

to give the company financial help

when it reached a crisis point.

0:07:030:07:06

Carillion, one of the government's

biggest contractors,

0:07:060:07:09

went into liquidation last month

with debts totaling £1.5 billion.

0:07:090:07:14

The company had employed 43,000

people and had contracts to run

0:07:140:07:17

services in hospitals,

schools and prisons

0:07:170:07:18

throughout the UK.

0:07:180:07:24

As part of the investigation

into the firm's downfall on January

0:07:240:07:27

14, some of its former bosses have

been facing the questions

0:07:270:07:29

of a joint committee of MPs.

0:07:300:07:34

Did government or did anyone

individual and government give you

0:07:340:07:37

assurance that there would be a

potential cash support from

0:07:370:07:40

government to get you over what you

considered at that point to be a

0:07:400:07:45

hot, to get you through to the end

of the financial year?

The

0:07:450:07:48

insurance, we did not get, the

permit certainly did not see... We

0:07:480:07:55

would support you. What they did say

is please put forward a proposal and

0:07:550:08:00

we are prepared to consider and

contemplate that proposal. The key

0:08:000:08:04

point here is there was a number of

different ways that cash could have

0:08:040:08:09

come into Carillion. We could have

reached a settlement with government

0:08:090:08:13

on specific contract issues or

government that have given us a

0:08:130:08:15

short-term loan, which to be clear

what happened repaid out of the

0:08:150:08:22

financing of the structuring of the

result of the restructuring plan

0:08:220:08:26

that we were working for.

Mr Green,

what was your view on the

0:08:260:08:30

Government's response following

Carillion's downfall?

Right up until

0:08:300:08:34

the very end, we were optimistic

that they would be able to play a

0:08:340:08:39

positive role. And we were deeply

disappointed. And to an extent

0:08:390:08:45

surprised when that didn't happen.

The funding we were asking for those

0:08:450:08:52

two weeks in January, essentially 10

million to be matched, 2 million

0:08:520:08:57

from the banks and then some

guarantee bending for a supply of

0:08:570:09:03

change financing against which we

would, they would be tested for the

0:09:030:09:07

broader restructuring plan. And I do

find it somewhat perplexing when one

0:09:070:09:12

looks at the funds that government

is now having to spend on the

0:09:120:09:20

liquidation on Carillion, on the

guarantee arrangements that have

0:09:200:09:21

needed to be put in place to support

the supply chain. You know, I still

0:09:210:09:27

truly believe that the least cost

outcome for the taxpayer would have

0:09:270:09:32

been to support Carillion, as it

sought to restructure the business.

0:09:320:09:39

Did you ever have a conversation

with your colleagues, saying Ashley

0:09:390:09:42

the Government is ever going to let

us go to the war because we are too

0:09:420:09:45

big to fail and we got such major

contracts? For example a test to?

0:09:450:09:49

Because you expressed some surprise

that I feel as if you actually

0:09:490:09:53

really believed that the Government

was gone to Bellew out of what was a

0:09:530:09:58

poor situation. Would that be fair?

No, it would be fair. Let me be

0:09:580:10:10

quick, we were not looking for a

bailout. That is not how I would've

0:10:100:10:15

you government support. This was a

short-term loan to help us

0:10:150:10:17

facilitate a broader restructuring.

Company successfully delivered. Many

0:10:170:10:21

hundreds of contracts. To the

satisfaction of government and all

0:10:210:10:26

stakeholders. The reason the company

got into difficulties during 2017

0:10:260:10:34

was because it had too much debt and

its balance sheet wasn't able to

0:10:340:10:38

withstand the shock from

particularly for contracts that went

0:10:380:10:44

badly wrong in the middle of 2017.

Did you not have a naive belief

0:10:440:10:49

frankly and government being the

solution, taxpayers money coming

0:10:490:10:53

into frankly bailout Carillion? That

was eventually what you are hanging

0:10:530:10:59

it all on at the end, wasn't it?

As

we said, we don't accept or

0:10:590:11:05

recognize the bailout. We believed

we were trying...

But a loan to a

0:11:050:11:10

company in difficulty. Alan would

have only been a long if you had

0:11:100:11:14

been recovered enough to pay it

back. It would be a very big risk.

0:11:140:11:18

In middle of January it was £10

million for one week to take us to

0:11:180:11:21

the next stage.

So fine a point from

Sir Geoffrey.

The real answer that

0:11:210:11:28

you consider yourself to be to fail?

No.

That the Government would have

0:11:280:11:33

to bail you out because you are too

big to fail?

That was not the view

0:11:330:11:37

of the board, that was not what we

believed. We really didn't.

Well, I

0:11:370:11:42

think we may beg to differ on that.

But can I thank you for your time?

0:11:420:11:47

Black Hill year there, bringing the

session to a conclusion.

0:11:470:11:51

You're watching Tuesday

in Parliament here with

0:11:510:11:53

me, Alicia McCarthy.

0:11:530:11:59

Now the appointment

of the controversial columnist

0:11:590:12:01

Toby Young to the Board of England's

new university regulator

0:12:010:12:04

caused a storm last month.

0:12:040:12:07

After disparaging comments he'd made

about women and disabled

0:12:070:12:09

people came to light.

0:12:090:12:10

He then resigned.

0:12:100:12:17

Now a report by the Commissioner

for Public Appointments has found

0:12:170:12:19

serious shortcomings and political

interference in the

0:12:190:12:21

appointments process.

0:12:210:12:23

Weeks ago the Government told his

House be process was a fair and open

0:12:230:12:28

competition, and in accordance with

the code of practice. But the

0:12:280:12:31

commissioner has found that this is

not the case. One candidate was

0:12:310:12:37

rejected on the basis of their past

public statements. Incredibly, this

0:12:370:12:41

was not Toby Young.

LAUGHTER

It was a student Representative,

0:12:410:12:48

rejected due to the desire by

Ministers and special advisers not

0:12:480:12:51

to appoint someone with close links

to the student union.

Hear, hear!

0:12:510:12:56

The report also notes that, can the

Minister tell us why being elected

0:12:560:13:03

by students makes someone unsuitable

to represent them? And how could the

0:13:030:13:09

then Minister tell us that it was

not reasonable to that social media,

0:13:090:13:13

when they did so for the student

representative?

Hear, hear!

Clearly

0:13:130:13:28

it was not as extensive as it

could've been.

0:13:280:13:31

It was the previous higher

Education Minister Joe Johnson

0:13:310:13:33

who oversaw the appointments.

0:13:330:13:35

He came in for some stinging

criticism from MPs.

0:13:350:13:41

This report is absolutely damning.

Particularly in relation to the

0:13:410:13:47

former Universities Minister and his

role in this appointment. And there

0:13:470:13:52

are very serious questions that he

should be answering to this House

0:13:520:13:57

about claims that he made that it

was not appropriate to do due

0:13:570:14:02

diligence and Canada its? A

statement he made from despatch box

0:14:020:14:07

was postop yet his department and

him himself ordering the very same

0:14:070:14:12

due diligence against a Cabinet he

did not want to appoint. By Modi

0:14:120:14:15

come to this House and apologise. --

when will he come to this House?

The

0:14:150:14:22

same due diligence was carried out

by the same advices on all

0:14:220:14:26

candidates and as I've said in

response to an earlier question, did

0:14:260:14:29

due diligence could've been or

extensive.

Toby Young believed in

0:14:290:14:35

eugenics. He made terrible remarks

about disabled people. He made awful

0:14:350:14:41

remarks about women. This is a man

that his predecessor thought was

0:14:410:14:48

fine to be on the board of office

for students. I say to him, what

0:14:480:14:54

confidence now should working-class

young people across this country,

0:14:540:15:00

underrepresented groups and ethnic

minorities have in the office for

0:15:000:15:03

students if we have a government

where the Minister who did this

0:15:030:15:09

cannot come to the despatch box,

apologise or step down.

Does he

0:15:090:15:15

think it was a sound judgement call

to allow number ten and medical

0:15:150:15:19

advisers to essentially blacklist

anybody and then appoint somebody

0:15:190:15:24

who is age, by not following any

proper process. Was that a good

0:15:240:15:29

judgement call by his predisaster?

Every decision any Minister makes

0:15:290:15:38

involves a judgement. It's not a

scientific process. In terms of

0:15:380:15:42

making sure the process works

better, the department which has

0:15:420:15:45

ultimate responsibility to make sure

we have a much more robust and

0:15:450:15:49

stringent process next time.

0:15:490:15:52

The Government's come under fire

over a port showing the number

0:15:520:15:55

of people in England and Wales

being detained under

0:15:550:15:57

the mental health act has been

rising year on year.

0:15:570:16:01

Labor's Luciana Berger used

an urgent question to raise

0:16:010:16:03

the finding of the watchdog,

the Care Quality Commission.

0:16:030:16:10

This scathing report finds that too

many patients who are subject to the

0:16:100:16:15

Mental Health Act continued to

experience care that does not fully

0:16:150:16:18

protect their rights or ensure their

well-being. Despite repeated

0:16:180:16:21

government promises, we have seen

yet another year of inaction. Can

0:16:210:16:27

the Minister and her response except

that and 2018 here in England that

0:16:270:16:30

what is outlined in today's report

is completely on acceptable and

0:16:300:16:36

could she tell us exactly what she

is going to do this week to ensure

0:16:360:16:39

that no patient in our country and a

mental health unit is deprived

0:16:390:16:45

unnecessarily of their human rights.

0:16:450:16:47

The Health Minister welcomed

the CQC's report and said

0:16:470:16:49

the Prime Minister had already

ordered a review of the use

0:16:490:16:52

of the mental health

actby professor Wesley.

0:16:520:16:56

I do agree with her and indeed with

AC QC report that the review of the

0:16:560:17:03

Mental Health Act in itself is not

the entire answer. That's why we

0:17:030:17:08

have this annual inspection from the

sea QC and we will act on it.

0:17:080:17:12

Central to the work that Simon

Wesley is leading is identifying

0:17:120:17:18

exactly those things which are known

legislative that we can take action

0:17:180:17:23

and to make the system work better

and again we are involved in many

0:17:230:17:29

cross government initiatives to do

exactly that.

0:17:290:17:31

Meanwhile in the Lords,

peers demanded to know

0:17:310:17:33

what the Government was doing

about eight hunger strike

0:17:330:17:35

at the arts would detention center.

0:17:350:17:39

The Independent online says more

than 100 women at the immigration

0:17:390:17:41

removal center have gone on hunger

strike over inhumane

0:17:410:17:43

conditions at the facility.

0:17:430:17:47

They're said to be concerned

about health provision

0:17:470:17:49

and uncertainty over how long

they are to be held.

0:17:490:17:55

A liberal Democrat said

there were around 400 people

0:17:550:17:57

held at Yarl's Wood,

the majority of them women.

0:17:570:18:03

One Algerian woman came to this

country at the age of 11, has been

0:18:030:18:06

here for 24 years and it wasn't

until she applied for a passport and

0:18:060:18:11

found she was undocumented that she

was been detained and so far she has

0:18:110:18:16

been there for three months. What

the Minister not agree that one of

0:18:160:18:19

the main reasons for the hunger

strikes is that people are being

0:18:190:18:22

detained unfairly, unreasonably and

indefinitely? One woman has

0:18:220:18:28

described it as like being

kidnapped. Not knowing what it's

0:18:280:18:32

going to and are what's going to

happen to her.

0:18:320:18:34

He said one person had been detained

for four and a half years.

0:18:340:18:38

With the Minister not agree that it

is time to introduce a 28 day limit

0:18:380:18:44

on immigration detention?

The

reasons for refusing food and fluid

0:18:440:18:56

are not for just one reason, there

may be for a multitude of reasons.

0:18:560:19:02

They may be an protest against their

detention that they may also be for

0:19:020:19:06

other reasons such as dietary and

religious reasons. It's true. It is

0:19:060:19:16

not a simple issue. In terms of

indefinite attention, the noble lord

0:19:160:19:20

did point out that detention for the

particular case that he outlined was

0:19:200:19:30

not indefinite but in fact the lady

had been detained for three months.

0:19:300:19:33

Every four months a detainee is

reassessed for immigration bail and

0:19:330:19:42

is actually quite fair to say that

most people in detention, 92%, to

0:19:420:19:48

not stay and attention for more than

four months.

What the Government not

0:19:480:19:53

reconsider looking at the mechanisms

used in the Scandinavian countries

0:19:530:20:01

where workers done within the

community to encourage and

0:20:010:20:07

successfully to get people to leave

when they have no right to be there

0:20:070:20:10

and apply a more humane and frankly

more effective policy such as the

0:20:100:20:15

ones we see in those countries.

I

don't have concerns that the

0:20:150:20:23

Government's policy is not working.

The reason that someone may remain

0:20:230:20:26

in detention for longer than they

might have done... Is because they

0:20:260:20:37

made themselves... The reasons for

detention are many and complex but

0:20:370:20:46

the purpose for detention is for

swift removal.

Do you agree that we

0:20:460:20:52

need up bit of balance on this

subject? In particular does she

0:20:520:20:56

agree that the credibility of the

immigration system depends on being

0:20:560:21:00

able to remove people who no longer

have a right to be in this country?

0:21:000:21:04

Clearly there will be difficult

cases and clearly they must be dealt

0:21:040:21:07

with in the best possible way but

fundamentally, we have to be able to

0:21:070:21:11

remove or the entire credibility of

the system is removed.

The noble

0:21:110:21:19

lord is absolutely right. That is

the purpose of detention for

0:21:190:21:22

necessary removal and I do also take

his point that while we do need to

0:21:220:21:31

deal with people sensitively who

perhaps are traumatised or have

0:21:310:21:35

mental health problems or other

reasons for rich they may be

0:21:350:21:39

vulnerable, the ultimate aim at the

detention centre is for removal.

0:21:390:21:53

According to the Office

for National Statistics,

0:21:590:22:01

7.6 million people smoke in the UK

am and that number is falling.

0:22:010:22:04

2016 saw the highest

proportion of smokers who quit

0:22:040:22:07

since their records began.

0:22:070:22:10

Nearly 3 million people

now use e-cigarette.

0:22:100:22:14

But researchers and producers said

that number was battling.

0:22:140:22:18

The producers wanted to stress

the benefit compared with smoking.

0:22:180:22:22

The research is very similar to that

that the Public Health England have

0:22:220:22:30

reviewed and that you find far fewer

toxicants and emissions from that is

0:22:300:22:37

cigarettes, the toxicological impact

of those omissions is much lower

0:22:370:22:41

than with cigarette smoking.

The

results showed that the reductions

0:22:410:22:47

and exposure so exposure to harmful

chemicals comes close to that seen

0:22:470:22:51

in those who stop smoking altogether

for the duration of the study so

0:22:510:22:54

very encouraging.

0:22:540:22:56

But there were claims

from researchers of a dearth

0:22:560:22:58

of information about he cannot burn

products which contained tobacco

0:22:580:23:01

but have fewer risks

than traditional cigarettes

0:23:010:23:02

because the tobacco doesn't combust.

0:23:030:23:09

Interns of heeding not burn, 350

degrees down to 30 degrees, we know

0:23:090:23:14

in birth circumstances there is no

combustion but you will still be

0:23:140:23:19

releasing some potentially harmful

chemicals albeit in smaller amounts.

0:23:190:23:23

Actually does comparative studies

have been done or they have been

0:23:230:23:26

dubbed the methodology is so

desperate that it's very difficult

0:23:260:23:30

to compare one study with another.

0:23:300:23:32

What about the chemicals

and e-cigarette?

0:23:320:23:37

Compared to conventional cigarettes

the levels are much lower. We

0:23:370:23:39

haven't done an exact comparison but

they are much, much lower. It's that

0:23:390:23:52

those that's important. We don't

know at this stage, maybe others do,

0:23:520:23:59

I'm not sure there is a cut off we

can say this level will translate

0:23:590:24:03

into development of cancer. We don't

know over the longer term what kind

0:24:030:24:09

of levels of repeated exposure are

going to have an impact on health

0:24:090:24:12

risk.

0:24:120:24:13

Both researchers and producers agree

more long-term studies were needed

0:24:130:24:16

into exactly the potential risks

were, but all of them stress

0:24:160:24:20

the risks compared with traditional

cigarettes were much lower.

0:24:200:24:25

Finally, Tuesday cut off

to a slightly spiky start

0:24:250:24:27

with the Minister getting

into trouble with the

0:24:270:24:29

Speaker John Bercow.

0:24:290:24:34

The Treasury Minister Liz Truss

with the Chancellor Philip Hammond

0:24:340:24:36

sitting alongside her on the front

bench was answering a question

0:24:360:24:39

about funding for local councils.

0:24:390:24:41

And took the opportunity to give

examples of where she thought

0:24:410:24:44

they'd wasted money.

0:24:440:24:48

But as she expanded on her thing,

the Speaker John Bercow barely

0:24:480:24:51

reckoned she had strayed too far

from her job, talking

0:24:510:24:53

about government responsibilities.

0:24:530:24:59

So, for example, momentum

supported... Which cost the taxpayer

0:24:590:25:06

£40,000 per day. Reading...

Resume

your seat Minister. You answer for

0:25:060:25:17

government policy. You don't waste

the time of the House by launching

0:25:170:25:20

into rants about policies of other

parties. I've made the point. If the

0:25:200:25:25

Chancellor is confused about it, he

really is underinformed.

0:25:250:25:31

The Speaker John Bercow

delivering his on Arctic blast

0:25:310:25:33

at Treasury questions.

0:25:330:25:34

And that's it from us for now.

0:25:340:25:38

Do join me at the same time tomorrow

for another round up

0:25:380:25:41

of the day here at Westminster,

including the highlights

0:25:410:25:43

from my Ministers questions.

0:25:430:25:44

But for now, from me

Alicia McCarthy, goodbye.

0:25:440:25:48

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS