27/02/2018 Tuesday in Parliament


27/02/2018

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LineFromTo

Hello there, and welcome

to Tuesday in Parliament.

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Coming up on this programme:

MPs and experts talk

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trade after Brexit.

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With the former head

of the World Trade Organization

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predicting new deals

won't compensate for the loss

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of business with the the EU.

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The 1% you can gain their will be

comparable to the five, six or 7%

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you would lose on the other side.

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A committee of MPs asks

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if there's enough information

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for smokers about e-cigarette.

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And the governments urge to act

to help end a hunger strike

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of the Yarl's Wood Detention Centre.

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One woman describes it as being

kidnapped. Not knowing when it is

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going to end or what is going to

happen to her.

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But first...

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In a speech on Tuesday

morning, the international

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Trade Secretary Liam Fox said

britain must be free

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to make its own trade

deals outside Europe,

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if it's to seize new opportunities

to sell to developing countries.

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Labour wants the UK to form

a new customs union,

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but Doctor Fox insisted that

would be a complete sell-out

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of Britain's national interest.

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His speech came as a former

permanent secretary

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at the Department for

International Trade had described

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described Brexit as,

"giving up a 3-course meal in return

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for a packet of crisps,"

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A comment raised by a Labour MP

at Treasury Questions.

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Does he agree with the permanent

secretary that giving up the single

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market and the customs Union is like

giving up a 3-course meal for a

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packet of crisps in the future? If

he does not agree, then can he

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identify specific evidence his book

whoa department has seen the future

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trade agreements will outweigh the

damage of leaving the single market

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customs union for businesses and

jobs across the country, but

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reticulated the Northeast.

Hear,

hear!

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.

Mr Speaker, it is the Government's

intention to maintain the highest

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possible access for British

businesses to European Union

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markets. And the honourable Lady is

right that we should approach this

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on an evidence base is. We should

look for the evidence of value of

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our trade flows with Europe, what

that generates in the UK in terms of

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jobs, and we should look objectively

at the opportunities that lie with

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third country trade deals and the

likely profile of new jobs and new

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trade and new opportunities that can

be created come and we shall waive

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those carefully.

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But another quote appeared to have

the Chancellor a little stumped.

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Labor's Stella Creasy

raised comments from

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the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson.

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He's used a BBC interview to dismiss

concerns that a hard

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Irish border would emerge

after leaving the EU customs union,

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suggesting the lack of border checks

between Camden and Westminster

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did not stop motorists paying

the congestion charge.

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Could the Chancellor set out the

benefits or otherwise of the

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arrangements the Government appears

to have for a customs union between

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the Camden, is lifting and

Westminster?

LAUGHTER

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I'm sure, Mr Speaker, when I call a

home and reflect on the deep meaning

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of that question will become clear

to me. But what I will say in

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response to the honourable Lady is

that if we look at the way goods and

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services flow freely between

different parts of our own economy,

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and indeed it's a different parts of

the United Kingdom, we see at once

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the huge benefit that it brings

having frictionless borders as we

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move our goods and services.

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Well, by coincidence, the former

general of the World Trade

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Organization was giving evidence

to MPs on the Brexit committee,

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and he was asked about the border

between Northern Ireland

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and the Republic.

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Currently on this border, if we

resorted to WTO rules, how would the

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WTO regard the border between

Northern Ireland and the Irish

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Republic? And what would they expect

to happen at that border between

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Northern Ireland and the Irish

Republic? Irish Republic, being a

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member of the UN Northern Ireland of

course being outside the US the

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Brexit.

Whatever option you take,

either a bilateral agreement or the

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WTO option, UK exiting EU meaning

Northern Ireland exiting EU, this

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will necessitate a border.

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He suggested one possible model

like that of Macau and China.

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In order to be a WTO member, you

don't need to be sovereign. You need

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to have another member's customs,

which is something which Macau, Hong

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Kong has, whereas in the case of mad

cow they are clearly belonging to

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China. But they are members of the

WTO in their own right, because they

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have an autonomous trade. And the

Macau option would be that you

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should think it out, giving to

Northern Ireland. The same tray

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capacity as China has given to

Macau, which doesn't mean that Macau

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doesn't belong to China. And then

you have the single system. Apply

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the same trade relations as Ireland.

Otherwise you have to have a vote.

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Again, where is this border? Is it

north of us, is the East, West? That

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is politically and extremely complex

question. But in my view, and I am

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putting this very simply as an

expert, if it is not East and West

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it has to be North and South.

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So, what was his view

of our future trade prospects?

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I'm not seeing the UK will not have

trade opportunities, which it may

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not have today as part of the EU.

But I would very much doubt as an

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expert, and again I am not entering

any politics, that the 1% you can

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gain their will be comparable to the

five, six or 7% you will use on the

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other side.

Pascal let me.

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Now, the former chief executive

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of the collapsed construction firm

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Carillion has said he's perplexed

by the Government's decision not

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to give the company financial help

when it reached a crisis point.

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Carillion, one of the government's

biggest contractors,

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went into liquidation last month

with debts totaling £1.5 billion.

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The company had employed 43,000

people and had contracts to run

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services in hospitals,

schools and prisons

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throughout the UK.

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As part of the investigation

into the firm's downfall on January

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14, some of its former bosses have

been facing the questions

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of a joint committee of MPs.

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Did government or did anyone

individual and government give you

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assurance that there would be a

potential cash support from

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government to get you over what you

considered at that point to be a

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hot, to get you through to the end

of the financial year?

The

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insurance, we did not get, the

permit certainly did not see... We

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would support you. What they did say

is please put forward a proposal and

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we are prepared to consider and

contemplate that proposal. The key

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point here is there was a number of

different ways that cash could have

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come into Carillion. We could have

reached a settlement with government

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on specific contract issues or

government that have given us a

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short-term loan, which to be clear

what happened repaid out of the

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financing of the structuring of the

result of the restructuring plan

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that we were working for.

Mr Green,

what was your view on the

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Government's response following

Carillion's downfall?

Right up until

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the very end, we were optimistic

that they would be able to play a

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positive role. And we were deeply

disappointed. And to an extent

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surprised when that didn't happen.

The funding we were asking for those

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two weeks in January, essentially 10

million to be matched, 2 million

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from the banks and then some

guarantee bending for a supply of

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change financing against which we

would, they would be tested for the

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broader restructuring plan. And I do

find it somewhat perplexing when one

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looks at the funds that government

is now having to spend on the

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liquidation on Carillion, on the

guarantee arrangements that have

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needed to be put in place to support

the supply chain. You know, I still

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truly believe that the least cost

outcome for the taxpayer would have

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been to support Carillion, as it

sought to restructure the business.

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Did you ever have a conversation

with your colleagues, saying Ashley

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the Government is ever going to let

us go to the war because we are too

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big to fail and we got such major

contracts? For example a test to?

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Because you expressed some surprise

that I feel as if you actually

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really believed that the Government

was gone to Bellew out of what was a

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poor situation. Would that be fair?

No, it would be fair. Let me be

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quick, we were not looking for a

bailout. That is not how I would've

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you government support. This was a

short-term loan to help us

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facilitate a broader restructuring.

Company successfully delivered. Many

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hundreds of contracts. To the

satisfaction of government and all

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stakeholders. The reason the company

got into difficulties during 2017

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was because it had too much debt and

its balance sheet wasn't able to

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withstand the shock from

particularly for contracts that went

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badly wrong in the middle of 2017.

Did you not have a naive belief

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frankly and government being the

solution, taxpayers money coming

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into frankly bailout Carillion? That

was eventually what you are hanging

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it all on at the end, wasn't it?

As

we said, we don't accept or

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recognize the bailout. We believed

we were trying...

But a loan to a

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company in difficulty. Alan would

have only been a long if you had

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been recovered enough to pay it

back. It would be a very big risk.

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In middle of January it was £10

million for one week to take us to

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the next stage.

So fine a point from

Sir Geoffrey.

The real answer that

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you consider yourself to be to fail?

No.

That the Government would have

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to bail you out because you are too

big to fail?

That was not the view

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of the board, that was not what we

believed. We really didn't.

Well, I

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think we may beg to differ on that.

But can I thank you for your time?

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Black Hill year there, bringing the

session to a conclusion.

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You're watching Tuesday

in Parliament here with

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me, Alicia McCarthy.

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Now the appointment

of the controversial columnist

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Toby Young to the Board of England's

new university regulator

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caused a storm last month.

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After disparaging comments he'd made

about women and disabled

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people came to light.

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He then resigned.

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Now a report by the Commissioner

for Public Appointments has found

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serious shortcomings and political

interference in the

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appointments process.

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Weeks ago the Government told his

House be process was a fair and open

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competition, and in accordance with

the code of practice. But the

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commissioner has found that this is

not the case. One candidate was

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rejected on the basis of their past

public statements. Incredibly, this

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was not Toby Young.

LAUGHTER

It was a student Representative,

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rejected due to the desire by

Ministers and special advisers not

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to appoint someone with close links

to the student union.

Hear, hear!

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The report also notes that, can the

Minister tell us why being elected

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by students makes someone unsuitable

to represent them? And how could the

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then Minister tell us that it was

not reasonable to that social media,

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when they did so for the student

representative?

Hear, hear!

Clearly

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it was not as extensive as it

could've been.

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It was the previous higher

Education Minister Joe Johnson

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who oversaw the appointments.

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He came in for some stinging

criticism from MPs.

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This report is absolutely damning.

Particularly in relation to the

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former Universities Minister and his

role in this appointment. And there

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are very serious questions that he

should be answering to this House

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about claims that he made that it

was not appropriate to do due

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diligence and Canada its? A

statement he made from despatch box

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was postop yet his department and

him himself ordering the very same

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due diligence against a Cabinet he

did not want to appoint. By Modi

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come to this House and apologise. --

when will he come to this House?

The

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same due diligence was carried out

by the same advices on all

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candidates and as I've said in

response to an earlier question, did

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due diligence could've been or

extensive.

Toby Young believed in

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eugenics. He made terrible remarks

about disabled people. He made awful

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remarks about women. This is a man

that his predecessor thought was

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fine to be on the board of office

for students. I say to him, what

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confidence now should working-class

young people across this country,

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underrepresented groups and ethnic

minorities have in the office for

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students if we have a government

where the Minister who did this

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cannot come to the despatch box,

apologise or step down.

Does he

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think it was a sound judgement call

to allow number ten and medical

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advisers to essentially blacklist

anybody and then appoint somebody

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who is age, by not following any

proper process. Was that a good

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judgement call by his predisaster?

Every decision any Minister makes

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involves a judgement. It's not a

scientific process. In terms of

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making sure the process works

better, the department which has

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ultimate responsibility to make sure

we have a much more robust and

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stringent process next time.

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The Government's come under fire

over a port showing the number

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of people in England and Wales

being detained under

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the mental health act has been

rising year on year.

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Labor's Luciana Berger used

an urgent question to raise

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the finding of the watchdog,

the Care Quality Commission.

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This scathing report finds that too

many patients who are subject to the

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Mental Health Act continued to

experience care that does not fully

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protect their rights or ensure their

well-being. Despite repeated

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government promises, we have seen

yet another year of inaction. Can

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the Minister and her response except

that and 2018 here in England that

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what is outlined in today's report

is completely on acceptable and

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could she tell us exactly what she

is going to do this week to ensure

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that no patient in our country and a

mental health unit is deprived

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unnecessarily of their human rights.

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The Health Minister welcomed

the CQC's report and said

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the Prime Minister had already

ordered a review of the use

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of the mental health

actby professor Wesley.

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I do agree with her and indeed with

AC QC report that the review of the

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Mental Health Act in itself is not

the entire answer. That's why we

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have this annual inspection from the

sea QC and we will act on it.

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Central to the work that Simon

Wesley is leading is identifying

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exactly those things which are known

legislative that we can take action

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and to make the system work better

and again we are involved in many

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cross government initiatives to do

exactly that.

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Meanwhile in the Lords,

peers demanded to know

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what the Government was doing

about eight hunger strike

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at the arts would detention center.

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The Independent online says more

than 100 women at the immigration

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removal center have gone on hunger

strike over inhumane

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conditions at the facility.

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They're said to be concerned

about health provision

0:17:470:17:49

and uncertainty over how long

they are to be held.

0:17:490:17:55

A liberal Democrat said

there were around 400 people

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held at Yarl's Wood,

the majority of them women.

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One Algerian woman came to this

country at the age of 11, has been

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here for 24 years and it wasn't

until she applied for a passport and

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found she was undocumented that she

was been detained and so far she has

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been there for three months. What

the Minister not agree that one of

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the main reasons for the hunger

strikes is that people are being

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detained unfairly, unreasonably and

indefinitely? One woman has

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described it as like being

kidnapped. Not knowing what it's

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going to and are what's going to

happen to her.

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He said one person had been detained

for four and a half years.

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With the Minister not agree that it

is time to introduce a 28 day limit

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on immigration detention?

The

reasons for refusing food and fluid

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are not for just one reason, there

may be for a multitude of reasons.

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They may be an protest against their

detention that they may also be for

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other reasons such as dietary and

religious reasons. It's true. It is

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not a simple issue. In terms of

indefinite attention, the noble lord

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did point out that detention for the

particular case that he outlined was

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not indefinite but in fact the lady

had been detained for three months.

0:19:300:19:33

Every four months a detainee is

reassessed for immigration bail and

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is actually quite fair to say that

most people in detention, 92%, to

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not stay and attention for more than

four months.

What the Government not

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reconsider looking at the mechanisms

used in the Scandinavian countries

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where workers done within the

community to encourage and

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successfully to get people to leave

when they have no right to be there

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and apply a more humane and frankly

more effective policy such as the

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ones we see in those countries.

I

don't have concerns that the

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Government's policy is not working.

The reason that someone may remain

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in detention for longer than they

might have done... Is because they

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made themselves... The reasons for

detention are many and complex but

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the purpose for detention is for

swift removal.

Do you agree that we

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need up bit of balance on this

subject? In particular does she

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agree that the credibility of the

immigration system depends on being

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able to remove people who no longer

have a right to be in this country?

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Clearly there will be difficult

cases and clearly they must be dealt

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with in the best possible way but

fundamentally, we have to be able to

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remove or the entire credibility of

the system is removed.

The noble

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lord is absolutely right. That is

the purpose of detention for

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necessary removal and I do also take

his point that while we do need to

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deal with people sensitively who

perhaps are traumatised or have

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mental health problems or other

reasons for rich they may be

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vulnerable, the ultimate aim at the

detention centre is for removal.

0:21:390:21:53

According to the Office

for National Statistics,

0:21:590:22:01

7.6 million people smoke in the UK

am and that number is falling.

0:22:010:22:04

2016 saw the highest

proportion of smokers who quit

0:22:040:22:07

since their records began.

0:22:070:22:10

Nearly 3 million people

now use e-cigarette.

0:22:100:22:14

But researchers and producers said

that number was battling.

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The producers wanted to stress

the benefit compared with smoking.

0:22:180:22:22

The research is very similar to that

that the Public Health England have

0:22:220:22:30

reviewed and that you find far fewer

toxicants and emissions from that is

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cigarettes, the toxicological impact

of those omissions is much lower

0:22:370:22:41

than with cigarette smoking.

The

results showed that the reductions

0:22:410:22:47

and exposure so exposure to harmful

chemicals comes close to that seen

0:22:470:22:51

in those who stop smoking altogether

for the duration of the study so

0:22:510:22:54

very encouraging.

0:22:540:22:56

But there were claims

from researchers of a dearth

0:22:560:22:58

of information about he cannot burn

products which contained tobacco

0:22:580:23:01

but have fewer risks

than traditional cigarettes

0:23:010:23:02

because the tobacco doesn't combust.

0:23:030:23:09

Interns of heeding not burn, 350

degrees down to 30 degrees, we know

0:23:090:23:14

in birth circumstances there is no

combustion but you will still be

0:23:140:23:19

releasing some potentially harmful

chemicals albeit in smaller amounts.

0:23:190:23:23

Actually does comparative studies

have been done or they have been

0:23:230:23:26

dubbed the methodology is so

desperate that it's very difficult

0:23:260:23:30

to compare one study with another.

0:23:300:23:32

What about the chemicals

and e-cigarette?

0:23:320:23:37

Compared to conventional cigarettes

the levels are much lower. We

0:23:370:23:39

haven't done an exact comparison but

they are much, much lower. It's that

0:23:390:23:52

those that's important. We don't

know at this stage, maybe others do,

0:23:520:23:59

I'm not sure there is a cut off we

can say this level will translate

0:23:590:24:03

into development of cancer. We don't

know over the longer term what kind

0:24:030:24:09

of levels of repeated exposure are

going to have an impact on health

0:24:090:24:12

risk.

0:24:120:24:13

Both researchers and producers agree

more long-term studies were needed

0:24:130:24:16

into exactly the potential risks

were, but all of them stress

0:24:160:24:20

the risks compared with traditional

cigarettes were much lower.

0:24:200:24:25

Finally, Tuesday cut off

to a slightly spiky start

0:24:250:24:27

with the Minister getting

into trouble with the

0:24:270:24:29

Speaker John Bercow.

0:24:290:24:34

The Treasury Minister Liz Truss

with the Chancellor Philip Hammond

0:24:340:24:36

sitting alongside her on the front

bench was answering a question

0:24:360:24:39

about funding for local councils.

0:24:390:24:41

And took the opportunity to give

examples of where she thought

0:24:410:24:44

they'd wasted money.

0:24:440:24:48

But as she expanded on her thing,

the Speaker John Bercow barely

0:24:480:24:51

reckoned she had strayed too far

from her job, talking

0:24:510:24:53

about government responsibilities.

0:24:530:24:59

So, for example, momentum

supported... Which cost the taxpayer

0:24:590:25:06

£40,000 per day. Reading...

Resume

your seat Minister. You answer for

0:25:060:25:17

government policy. You don't waste

the time of the House by launching

0:25:170:25:20

into rants about policies of other

parties. I've made the point. If the

0:25:200:25:25

Chancellor is confused about it, he

really is underinformed.

0:25:250:25:31

The Speaker John Bercow

delivering his on Arctic blast

0:25:310:25:33

at Treasury questions.

0:25:330:25:34

And that's it from us for now.

0:25:340:25:38

Do join me at the same time tomorrow

for another round up

0:25:380:25:41

of the day here at Westminster,

including the highlights

0:25:410:25:43

from my Ministers questions.

0:25:430:25:44

But for now, from me

Alicia McCarthy, goodbye.

0:25:440:25:48

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