Browse content similar to 27/10/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello it's Tuesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, | :00:13. | :00:13. | |
A double defeat for the Government in the Lords last night on cuts to | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
tax credits, and anger among ministers about an unelected chamber | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
Unelected Labour and Liberal Lords have defeated a financial matter | :00:21. | :00:31. | |
passed by the elected House of Commons, and David Cameron and I are | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
clear that this raises constitutional issues that need to | :00:36. | :00:36. | |
be dealt with. We'll explain exactly what | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
the votes last night is it right that | :00:40. | :00:41. | |
an unelected bunch of Lords can vote Or are they doing exactly what you'd | :00:42. | :00:49. | |
want from the second chamber Plus - a controversial legal | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
principle called joint enterprise allows several people to be | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
prosecuted for a crime, regardless This morning the way it's used will | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
be examined in the supreme court. And preparing for the end | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
of the world. We meet | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
the British men who're getting ready to survive any potential disaster | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
this country could face. If there was contagion and some | :01:08. | :01:23. | |
zombie-like creatures came out to try to attack your... I would kill | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
them. How, with a knife or something? With anything, with | :01:30. | :01:30. | |
anything. Hello, welcome to the programme. | :01:31. | :01:46. | |
We're on BBC Two and the BBC News Throughout the programme we'll bring | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
you the latest breaking news and developing stories - including | :01:54. | :02:13. | |
the latest figures which show how They're due out in | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
around 15 minutes. Plus - as always we're | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
keen to hear from you. And of course you can watch | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
the programme online wherever you are - via the BBC news app or | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
our website bbc.co.uk/victoria. And you can also subscribe to all | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
our features on the news app, by going to 'add topics' and | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'. Labour say the Lords "spoke | :02:31. | :02:32. | |
for the country" last night when they blocked the Government over | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
its proposed cuts to tax credits. It means chancellor George Osborne | :02:36. | :02:37. | |
will now have to rewrite his plans to cut the welfare budget | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
and, potentially, have to find some of the ?4.4 | :02:41. | :02:42. | |
billion of savings elsewhere. The Chancellor now says he'll look | :02:43. | :02:44. | |
at how he can ease the impact of his proposed reductions in tax | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
credits on the lowest paid workers. Throughout the programme this | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
morning we're really keen to hear from you to give us a sense | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
of whether you think the Lords has stood up to the Government in order | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
to protect those who'll lose out the most, or if you think the unelected | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
chamber has over-stepped the mark. Traditionally the House of Lords | :03:01. | :03:02. | |
don't block Government financial I want to be able to go home this | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
evening knowing that I have done everything I can do to stop the | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
wrong-headed, ill thought-through It is about, surely, | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
respect for those who strive to do everything we asked of them, | :03:17. | :03:24. | |
and now find themselves punished Do you want people who hitherto have | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
been depending on work and tax credits now to be driven to | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
the loan sharks of this country? I think it is perfectly possible | :03:31. | :03:45. | |
with tweaking it to take more from the upper end of the tax | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
credit scale and less from the lower They were civilised | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
but it was brutal. The Government defeated on | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
its cuts to tax credits not once... My Lords, they have voted contents | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
307, not contents 277, But twice, | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
the plans thrown out by the Lords. My Lords, they have voted | :04:06. | :04:19. | |
contents 289, not contents 272. Unelected Labour and Liberal Lords | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
have defeated a financial matter passed | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
by the elected House of Commons, and David Cameron and I are clear | :04:27. | :04:35. | |
that this raises constitutional However, | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
it has happened and now we must I said I would listen, and that | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
is precisely what I intend to do. David Cameron has now ordered a | :04:43. | :04:55. | |
rapid review into the House of Lords relationship with the Commons | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
on financial matters. After 10am we'll explain exactly | :05:00. | :05:00. | |
what those changes mean for you, but now we can speak to the independent | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
crossbench peer Baroness Meacher, who put forward one of the motions | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
in the Lords last night delaying the changes to tax credits | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
and sending them back to Let's talk first about what is most | :05:10. | :05:19. | |
important our audience, which is, as a result of the votes last night, | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
does it mean the lowest paid workers who will be hit hardest by the cuts | :05:23. | :05:25. | |
to tax credits would be hit as hard? My understanding from the | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
Chancellor is that he will now make arrangements for the transition so | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
that hard-pressed families won't lose some tax credits immediately on | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
April the 1st, that these cuts will be phased in, which will just make | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
them a little bit easier to manage for people. But, in the end, the | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
cuts will happen. It is not the job of the House of Lords to tell the | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
Chancellor what to do, he will decide with the elected chamber. | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
But, as a result of the defeats that you inflicted on the Government in | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
those two votes, does that mean he has to immediately the cuts | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
somehow? I think he has to ameliorate the cuts because he can | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
see the feeling in the country is not with him, and I think in the | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
elected house the Conservative backbenchers are also panicking, and | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
I think the Government will lose a vote on Thursday in the elected | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
house. I think the Chancellor knows he has to do something and we have | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
simply held the regulation, we have not approved it, so that gives him | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
time to do what the elected Government and elected house decide | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
should be done, and I think that is a relief to everybody. Your | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
particular amendment was he wanted the Government to go back and look | :06:42. | :06:48. | |
at the impact on the poorest workers. We know that eight out of | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
ten -- two out of ten will be worse off. People with cancer who cannot | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
work full-time, people with a disabled child who needs carers, | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
these are the people with low incomes and the people, as I | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
understand it, that will lose the most and will not have that loss | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
made up by the tax threshold increase, although I support the tax | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
threshold increase, but they will not benefit from those things, the | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
people at the bottom. Those are the people I am most concerned about and | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
I hope the Chancellor will now protect them. We have asked our | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
audience to tell us if they think you and your fellow peers did the | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
right thing, whether it is right for an unelected group of peers to | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
effectively defeat the elected Government, only elected in May, on | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
its manifesto. Ian said, Hallelujah, the House of Lords has | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
done something worthy of note! Maybe it is not a waste of money after | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
all, well done your honour WHO. Alan said, I thought the Lords were | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
a waste of time but I have changed my mind, I am full of admiration for | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
those who stood against oppressive cuts to those less well off in our | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
community. If constitutional powers have been exceeded, then good, maybe | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
we need to look at the role of the Lords. | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
Another says, well done the Lords and ladies who stood for what is | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
right in our society. Despite what some members of our | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
audience thing, which is obviously only a tiny snapshot, you could be | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
in trouble As the Government says it will have a rapid review to | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
determine what sort of relationship the Lords has with the House of | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
Commons. What did you understand by a rapid review? Well, presumably | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
considering our powers. I think it was very courageous, if I may say | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
so, particularly of my colleagues, the crossbenchers, to support my | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
amendment when the threats were already there, the Government | :08:45. | :08:46. | |
threatening to disable the House of Lords, and yet we went through with | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
this motion because we are so concerned about the impact of these | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
deep cuts on very vulnerable people. But the fact is the Government are | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
all-powerful, they can do what they like. But what I hope is they will | :09:02. | :09:07. | |
be honourable and respect the fact that my amendment only asks them to | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
think again and only as them to listen to their elected colleagues | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
in the House of Commons, who will be having a debate and a vote on | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
Thursday, and I anticipate the Government will lose that vote, and | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
that is the important boat and the Government really need to listen to | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
the elected house. Thank you very much for coming on the programme. | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
Get some sleep, I know you have not had much! | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
Still to come in the programme, the latest economic growth figures due | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
out in about five minutes and the markets expect a contraction in the | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
UK economy. In around 40 minutes times | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
the Supreme Court is to review the law of joint enterprise in murder | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
cases, which campaigners claim has As our reporter Jim Reed explains, | :09:58. | :09:59. | |
joint enterprise allows several people to be prosecuted, regardless | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
of the part played by each person. What, girl's man? | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
Yeah, fam? You disrespecting me? | :10:07. | :10:08. | |
Hey, listen, yeah? A Met Police video from a couple | :10:09. | :10:10. | |
of years back. The person with the knife, the girl | :10:11. | :10:12. | |
egging him on, the friend who The answer, of course, | :10:13. | :10:20. | |
could be all three. Joint enterprise is not a law | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
but a legal principle. To be guilty of murder, | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
you don't have to be the one The test is whether a member | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
of a group or gang should be able to foresee that another member | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
might commit serious bodily harm. The jury has found both Gary Dobson | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
and David Norris guilty In a case of Stephen Lawrence, | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
the police could never prove who But, after a long wait, | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
his family got some justice when Gary Dobson and Stephen Norris we | :10:51. | :11:09. | |
given life sentences, both | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
convicted under joint enterprise. It was first used as a deterrent to | :11:15. | :11:16. | |
stop people getting involved It's something police | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
and prosecutors have started to rely on more, especially | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
in complex gang killings. Research out in 2014 found that over | :11:24. | :11:25. | |
the past eight years, at least 1800 people were prosecuted | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
under joint enterprise - more than Last night, Victoria Station was | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
brought to a standstill after The victim was chased into the | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
station and stabbed when he was 12 teenagers have appeared | :11:37. | :11:45. | |
in court in London charged with Take the death of 15-year-old | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
Sofyen Belamouadden at a station in London, the biggest ever | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
prosecution of a gang of a murder. Eight were convicted in total, | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
including a 16-year-old. He was carrying a weapon, | :11:56. | :11:57. | |
but was outside the station Critics say the law is just too | :11:58. | :11:59. | |
blunt and can lead to the wrong Backers say it is often | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
the only way of getting any form of justice in complex cases where | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
gangs might be involved. Let's talk to our legal eagle Clive | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
Coleman. Why is today's hearing so unusual? | :12:18. | :12:33. | |
It comes at a time when there is a huge amount of controversy about | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
joint enterprise, so the Supreme Court and judicial committee of the | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
privy Council, which he is a huge amount of controversy about joint | :12:41. | :12:42. | |
enterprise, so the Supreme Court and judicial committee of the privy | :12:43. | :12:51. | |
Council, which who inflicted the fatal blow, both of whom said they | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
were wrongly convicted as a result of joint enterprise. The controversy | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
at the heart of this, Victoria, is that in this country we don't have | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
first degree, second-degree murder, we just have the murder. When you | :13:05. | :13:11. | |
have a whole group of in a murder, a gang, joint enterprise is an | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
incredibly powerful prosecuting tool that allows the net to be thrown | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
over a wall of them, even though they may have played very, very | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
different parts. As the film illustrated, many people leave the | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
test at the heart of joint enterprise is simply too low. You | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
don't have to prove intent, you simply have to prove that one member | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
of the group could have foreseen that another member of the group | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
might, and I stress the word might, go on either to kill or cause | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
serious bodily harm. Many believe that that means that bit part | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
players, people who are not really players at all, who happened to be | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
at the scene, can be hauled into the prosecution and, as a result, | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
prosecuted for murder and, if convicted, they will be given the | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
mandatory life sentence. Campaigners say they are working with as many as | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
600 people who they claim have been wrongly convicted as a result of | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
joint enterprise murder. Why is today significant? Because these two | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
cases give a very powerful court the opportunity to look at that critical | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
test, and they could change it. They could make it, for instance, that | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
you have to foresee that there is a probability that someone might kill | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
or cause serious bodily harm, rather than merely a possibility. There is | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
a huge amount of interest over this two day hearing and campaigners, | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
people in prison as a result of joint enterprise convictions, and of | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
course the families of victims, will be looking at this hearing very, | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
very closely. We will bring the latest news and | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
sport in a moment, but first, let's talk Dude Janet Cunliffe, whose son | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
was jailed in 2008 when he was 16, for the murder of Gary new love in | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
Mr Newlove died from head injuries after being attacked by | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
What is your issue with joint enterprise concerning your son's | :15:08. | :15:17. | |
case? First of all, Jordan did not take part in the attack. How do you | :15:18. | :15:29. | |
know? The pathologist described the injuries to Mr Newlove as a very | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
hard kick or punch, and Jordan did not have any marks in his hands or | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
feet, and he would have done had he been involved in the violence. We | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
know that Jordan did not pay a part in the attack. Nonetheless he was | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
prosecuted under joint enterprise that he had some kind of foresight | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
that somebody else in the group might attack somebody? At the time | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
of the trial we did not know about joint enterprise, we did not | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
understand how you defend yourself against this kind of charge, and we | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
thought we were defending Jordan against the actual murder, not the | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
fact that he could have possible foresight to murder. Which I find | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
very difficult to get my head around. On the night that this | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
happened, Jordan, he has a very rare eye condition which means that you | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
could not even see what happened, so, to me, how can someone who | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
cannot even see what is happening in front of them then have the | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
foresight to predict what is going to happen and what it will lead to? | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
It is a double injustice, I think, for Jordan. | :16:32. | :16:38. | |
Almost all of those relatives say their loved one didn't do it. | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
I disagree. I go on prison visits and I speak to lots of mums and dads | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
and one of the things a who of them say to me, at least you know your | :16:52. | :17:01. | |
son didn't kill anyone. I get the opposite. I get told that from | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
families whose son, daughter, husband has committed the crime. | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
They say they have more peace because they can forgive their son, | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
daughter, husband and they can get over that and they can rehabilitate | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
that. For someone like us, like my family, you can't rehabilitate | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
someone who hasn't murdered anyone, and, you know, it is really | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
difficult to get your head round that, your child is in prison for | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
murder, even though the trial process itself proved he didn't | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
commit the murder. The wife of Garry Newlove said she believes all ial | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
process itself proved he didn't commit the murder. The wife of Garry | :17:40. | :17:41. | |
Newlove said she believes all those prosecuted at the time "Are as | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
guilty as the person doing the act." Yes, there were five people | :17:45. | :17:46. | |
prosecuted at the time and two were acquitted by a jury. That is almost | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
like saying she doesn't believe in the acquittal. You know, if you are | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
going to believe in justice you have to believe in it in all sides. It | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
has to be fair. What do you hope from this hearing which is scheduled | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
to last for two days? The main thing, because when we talk about | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
600 people in prison who are not guilty of murder, a lot are guilty | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
of a crime. It isn't necessarily murder, and what we want from the | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
Supreme Court is to, for them to sort of put, put the power back in | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
the hands of judge, so if a case comes before them, and they can see | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
that there are different actions done by different people, and they | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
do get found guilty for those actions to put them in prison for | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
the crime they have committed, not for the actual murder. So if you | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
have someone who is at the periphery but, I don't know, they have caused | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
some kind of crime that night, then put them in prison for that crime, | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
not the mandatory life sentence for murder. I don't think juries realise | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
when they find someone guilty they are putting them in prison for life. | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
And I mean Jordan was 15. I didn't know until then we put children in | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
prison for life sentence, I find that shocking as well. | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
Thank you for coming on. A couple of comments from people watching. Mary | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
tweets to say this. Lazy policing, has led to overuse of joint | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
enterprise. Destroying community relations between young people and | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
the police. Kath has said joint enterprise is simple. Convicting | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
innocent people for crimes committed by others. | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
It is callous, unjust and it needs reforming urgently. | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
Thank you for your time today. We will report back of course on the | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
hearing which is scheduled to last for a couple of days. | :19:36. | :19:36. | |
Matthew Etherington was a Premier League footballer with plenty | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
He will tell us in his first tv interview why he | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
And we meet the "preppers" - the Britons fully equipped to | :19:45. | :19:53. | |
Testify Our business reporter is here. What do the figures show? They | :19:54. | :20:10. | |
show the economy is growing at 0ttt 5. That is down on what we saw in | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
the months before. This is the measure between July and September | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
of how quickly the economy is growing. It measures the economy. So | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
which is increasing and getting smaller. So a half of one 1. It | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
doesn't sound like a lot and it is not. The issue and it has been | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
described this morning as stubborn. It does say all you need to know | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
about the state of the economy. Yes it is growing. But not as fast as it | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
was earlier in the year No, and by no means the same growth we want to | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
see. So the issue I suppose that you can take a bit of optimism from is | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
the fact it is going up and not down. Still it is not as good as it | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
has been. Why not? Construction still pretty slow so the | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
construction sector building house, offices, roads still struggling and | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
the manufacturing sector, the things that we make in this country, again | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
still pretty slow, so that is one of the biggest issues, and that is is | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
really reflected because we are not selling as much abroad, because we | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
have seen the well documented problems in Europe, they are still | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
struggling, elsewhere in the world they are not buying as much of our | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
stuff as we would like. It means the construction, manufacturing sectors | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
are struggling. The big question, what does this mean for things like | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
interest rates. All of these things are tied up. It removes the pressure | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
from the Bank of England and the Governor to think about putting up | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
the cost of borrowing, he has more time before that starts going up. As | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
with have talked about. They don't want to raise interest rate, the | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
cost of borrowing for mortgages and credit cards, they don't want do | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
that too soon because it could choke off a economic recovery. Headline | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
figure, 0.5%. It is not great but not as bad as it has been in the | :21:50. | :21:50. | |
past. Thank you. The Government's forced | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
by unelected peers to back down on tax credits - but says nothing | :21:55. | :21:56. | |
is now ruled out in a rapid review The Lords voted to delay cuts to | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
the benefit. But they're being accused | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
of breaking parliamentary convention to 'wreck' a financial programme | :22:04. | :22:05. | |
passed by MPs. Baroness Meacher who put forward one | :22:06. | :22:18. | |
of the motions told us she understands the Chancellor will | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
change the way the cuts are introduced. These cuts will be | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
phased in, which will just make them a bit easier to manage for people, | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
but in the end, the cuts will happen of course, it is not the job of the | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
House of Lords to tell the Chancellor what to do. He will | :22:34. | :22:35. | |
decide with the elected chamber. The Supreme Court is to review | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
the use of the legal principle of joint enterprise, which allows | :22:41. | :22:42. | |
several people to be charged with the same offence, regardless | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
of the part played by each person. Campaigners claim it has led to | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
numerous miscarriages of justice, with hundreds | :22:49. | :22:50. | |
of young men being given mandatory life sentences for crimes in | :22:51. | :22:52. | |
which they had only a minor role. Police are continuing to question a | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
15-year-old boy from County Antrim in connection with last week's cyber | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
attack on the TalkTalk website. Millions | :23:02. | :23:03. | |
of customers have been warned that their personal data, including bank | :23:04. | :23:05. | |
details and email addresses, may Let's catch up with all | :23:06. | :23:07. | |
the sport now. Here is Jess. Hello. This morning we | :23:08. | :23:26. | |
will be delving into the mind of Chelsea 's animated boss Jose | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
Mourinho. He has been an outspoken colourful character, he has given us | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
a few laughs but he is not having the best of times at the moment. He | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
is in trouble again for alleged bad behaviour. He was sent to the stands | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
in Chelsea's 2-1 loss at the weekend for comments he made to the referee | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
and faces a misconducted charge. It is not the first time he has been in | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
trouble this season. He has been fined ?50,000 and been given an | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
extended stadium ban, on the pitch, Chelsea, a team that won the Premier | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
League soen Vincingly last season are 15th. They have had five losses | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
in ten league games and Mourinho thinks he is still the best man for | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
the job. They play Stoke in the League Cup tonight. They have a big | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
game against Liverpool at the weekend but is time running out for | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
the Portuguese to turn the club round? Reports in the media suggest | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
that his job may be in jeopardy, if he doesn't get a result against | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
Liverpool. We will discuss that further at 10am, with football | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
journalist Patrick Barkley. Hopefully I will see you then. | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
Hopefully? I hope so. I definitely will! Thank you. Next our reporter | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
meets the preppers. Next this morning, | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
our reporter Benjamin Zand meets the "preppers" - the men who're | :24:43. | :24:44. | |
fixated on making sure they're fully equipped to survive | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
in the event of a catastrophe. Every possible option is being | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
considered to protect a British hostage being held by Islamic State | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
militants. The world can be a scary place, | :24:55. | :24:56. | |
with the threat of terrorist attacks, fear of war or | :24:57. | :24:58. | |
outbreaks of diseases like Ebola. With the latest figures showing | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
nearly 5000 people infected with the virus, President Obama is now | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
calling it a potential threat to Most of us managed to carry | :25:09. | :25:10. | |
on our daily lives, Instead, they think we need to | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
prepare and plan to make Actually, we should have | :25:17. | :25:26. | |
been doing it years ago. These people, mostly men, | :25:27. | :25:33. | |
are called preppers. I'm calling you because I | :25:34. | :25:53. | |
near the shop, The Prepper Shop, and I just need to figure out what | :25:54. | :26:09. | |
to put in my bag. So, as a man with currently no | :26:10. | :26:29. | |
knowledge, I need everything? So, in a bid to potentially survive | :26:30. | :26:37. | |
the Apocalypse, I'm on my way to learn a bit more | :26:38. | :26:48. | |
about the world of prepping. A kind proper called Roach, | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
also known as Michael, But first I'm heading to the UK's | :26:52. | :26:53. | |
only prepping shop, conveniently called The Prepper Shop, to pick up | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
some supplies and find out It even has a pick up truck with the | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
Confederate flag in dice his window. How you doing, mate? | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming out. | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
No problem. Is this the only prepping shop | :27:16. | :27:16. | |
in the UK? In Europe, we are the only one, | :27:17. | :27:18. | |
still. So, a large proportion | :27:19. | :27:20. | |
of it is just practical stuff. Handcuffs is a bit strange, | :27:21. | :27:27. | |
why would you need handcuffs? I suppose it's more of a case | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
if there is rioting, you are in It seems like knives are an integral | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
part of the prepping experience? If you are in the woods | :27:36. | :27:42. | |
in a survival situation, You have some pretty hefty knives, | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
are you not concerned some people might be using these | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
for ulterior motives? Yeah, I would have thought | :27:50. | :27:50. | |
if somebody was, they are going to buy a ?2.99 kitchen knife or grab | :27:51. | :27:58. | |
something from their kitchen. The law says | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
in order to carry knives like these It is safe to say preppers carrying | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
knives as big as these in public would find it harder to | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
find a reason. I'm going on a bugging out | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
trip with a man called Roach. Bugging out is | :28:14. | :28:15. | |
a scenario has happened and you have It's been compromised or | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
something like that, it's So you've got a bag prepacked, | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
with everything you need, you can disappear off somewhere where people | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
aren't going to find you. Just, like, | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
hibernate until things... Lincoln Miles is the owner | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
of what he calls Europe's only In other words commonly makes money | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
from people worrying Something he's OK with, | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
as he says no differently to owning His shop stocks food, gas masks, | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
clothes in case of nuclear war Probably more for hunting, | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
in the worst case scenario. If there is | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
a complete social breakdown, the laws are gone, you can't eat, | :29:01. | :29:02. | |
you can hunt an animal with it. Do think that is how | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
bad things could get? This is what people are preparing | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
for, you will need to arm yourselves People generally underestimated how | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
easily it would go to pot if something happened, quite how | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
easy social breakdown would occur. People go to extreme lengths | :29:16. | :29:17. | |
of their family is starving Knives and crossbows aren't | :29:18. | :29:19. | |
the only controversial thing On the other side of the room, | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
and tattooed onto his arm, A flight from the American Civil War | :29:24. | :29:30. | |
that some link with racism, It's about relying on yourself, | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
and not relying on someone else, the Government, any other services, | :29:34. | :29:43. | |
your neighbours. Not relying on anyone else to | :29:44. | :29:44. | |
help you out of a scenario. Do think we trust | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
the Government too much? We believe a lot of what we are | :29:51. | :29:52. | |
told and a lot of it is not true. I don't think a lot | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
of it's going to happen. So, yeah, | :29:58. | :29:59. | |
you've got to rely on yourself. On the other side | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
of the shop that day was another As well as being a prepper, Pete | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
works as a motivational life coach in | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
the south of England and he agreed So, I need something | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
that can create a fire. Something that is a container, | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
a steel water bottle. As we were doing so, | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
we got to talking about how he would Right, I'll follow you, | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
wherever is best. There's many different examples | :30:25. | :30:43. | |
of bugging out, in the woods, terra firma, this isn't | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
the only version that I would do. The idea is basically that via | :30:47. | :30:48. | |
canoe, there's going to be less people, | :30:49. | :30:50. | |
via the waterways, there's not going So you are just constantly, like, | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
prepared? You have got your belt on, this is | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
like an everyday thing you have, Yeah, I've got my multitool here. | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
I've got my torch here. Why are you so convinced | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
something bad might happen? I'm not living on a knife edge, | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
waiting for an apocalyptic situation I'm actually enjoying this activity | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
because even if I wasn't a prepper or survivalist, this would | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
be a leisure activity anyway. What exactly made you become | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
a prepper? It was around about the time | :31:20. | :31:20. | |
of the financial crash. Prior to that, about 20 years ago, | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
I got thinking about certain things that were going | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
on, globally, around the world, It's not the usual tool | :31:28. | :31:29. | |
of choice for survival. I have an ex-partner who is | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
the mother of my son. They know what I'm like, they know | :31:37. | :31:44. | |
that I'm a bit of a free spirit. Is your son going to jump | :31:45. | :31:52. | |
on the canoe with you? He is sort of interested in it, | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
because obviously I'm his dad. I've never forced anything on him, | :31:58. | :32:00. | |
I would never force anything or dictate | :32:01. | :32:02. | |
and preach anything to anybody. Is it like something you sit down | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
with in the house, "OK, guys, today on the agenda is how to potentially | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
bug out from the apocalypse?" You can't just disappear | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
with yourself, can you? We do have strategies | :32:16. | :32:17. | |
in place where certain family members can actually meet up | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
and there is a particular location where a certain family member lives, | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
which is in the middle of a farm. We didn't have an apocalypse the | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
other year, when we had the riots. But within three days, | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
major cities all up and down the country were having, | :32:31. | :32:32. | |
whether it was anarchy, whatever you want to call it, or just | :32:33. | :32:35. | |
chancers, there were riots going I had a friend who lived | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
in north-west London and she was trapped in her flat because | :32:39. | :32:52. | |
downstairs was a no-go area where the law | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
enforcement were not going in. There were fires, | :32:56. | :32:56. | |
cars were being set alight and the lower ground floor | :32:57. | :32:58. | |
properties were being broken into. So, with something like that, | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
I would get out of Dodge. It wasn't an apocalypse, | :33:02. | :33:03. | |
but it was a social breakdown. You would actually leave and get | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
in a canoe Because of where I live, | :33:07. | :33:08. | |
I'm quite lucky because I live What would the canoe do | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
in that situation? What would the canoe do | :33:14. | :33:15. | |
in a riot situation? It would get me to a location, | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
it's a form of transit. You would kind of disappear to | :33:19. | :33:26. | |
a riverbed, an island somewhere? Under the dark, low light tends | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
to be better, as with any activity Right, guys, you're going to | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
have to excuse me, because I've Good luck out there. What if I had a | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
crossbow right now? You'd better have | :33:41. | :33:53. | |
a good eyesight for the dark! As Pete paddled away | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
into the darkness, I wondered whether he really thought any of | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
this was actually going to happen. And, if it did, whether he truly | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
thought the canoe would save him. I wondered this until my lack | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
of preparation showed Preppers prepare for a huge range | :34:10. | :34:11. | |
of potential disasters, from A zombie apocalypse is even kind | :34:12. | :34:19. | |
of one, if the definition of zombie is someone infected when a | :34:20. | :34:27. | |
pandemic sweeps across the nation. They train | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
by holding bug-out drills, where they test their skills by fleeing | :34:34. | :34:35. | |
their homes and trying to escape. And, as a new day began, I was on | :34:36. | :34:37. | |
my way to meet the final person on OK, so Roach has told me to come to | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
this door, Roach is an ex-military man who | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
spent most of his life in the force. He is now retired and runs a YouTube | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
channel. The channel features him with guns, | :34:53. | :34:54. | |
camping out Hidden in his house are stores of | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
food in case of disaster and he keeps a trailer to put on | :34:59. | :35:08. | |
his car with enough supplies to keep But he says being | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
a prepper isn't easy. People have attacked him and set | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
his car alight as a consequence. Despite this, he agreed to show | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
me an example of bugging out. I have my bug-out bag, I'm ready to | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
learn to survive every possibility. The specific scenario we were doing | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
was in the case of contagion, It's not | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
the most inconspicuous tent, is it? Go out in the woods, | :35:29. | :35:47. | |
tell me if you can see it. What this is | :35:48. | :35:59. | |
for me is living simply. So the fact that we are | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
in the woods is by the by. In the space of about 30 minutes we | :36:03. | :36:15. | |
have set up camp, we've got a fire, we've got some food, | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
he's cooking some bangers and mash. Life is good - but we're still | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
in a forest, so it's not that good. If there was contagion, | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
some zombie-like creatures came out I'd kill them. | :36:29. | :36:30. | |
How? With a knife or something? With anything, like this. | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
Would you try and... With anything, with your hands, | :36:36. | :36:43. | |
with a piece of wood. If there were people that came? | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
Yeah. Would that be | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
the first thing you did? Ultimately, you know, | :36:52. | :36:53. | |
there are so many possibles. So we built this place, | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
which is impressive. What do you think this will | :37:00. | :37:09. | |
protect you from? It's not going to protect you | :37:10. | :37:18. | |
from nuclear war, is it, or anything like that? | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
No. If everybody was fleeing | :37:22. | :37:22. | |
from their house, there are probably So how far do you think this could | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
realistically protect somebody? It doesn't matter. | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
Today, right now, it's a safe If there was a pandemic, | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
there aren't any other people here, There might be, though. | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
There might be. And when that there are, | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
we will have to assess those risks So, do you think that, deep | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
down inside, because you have spent so long preparing for it, you kind | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
of hope something is go to happen? I don't want bad things to | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
happen to good people. Because, I suppose, | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
most people don't really think about such consequences | :37:57. | :38:10. | |
and such potential disasters. Yeah. That because I'm interested | :38:11. | :38:12. | |
in everything. Some people would say that | :38:13. | :38:20. | |
you are taking this too far. To a degree, | :38:21. | :38:27. | |
they are absolutely right. What you could do is put every spare | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
penny you've got in the bank You could pay | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
off your mortgage ten years early. Whatever you decide you have to do | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
to prepare for the future, It's hard to say how many preppers | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
there are in the UK, as most are individuals who keep it | :38:44. | :38:57. | |
behind closed doors. For the ones that do go public, like | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
Roach, Pete and Lincoln, they are sometimes criticised and labelled | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
as paranoid, seemingly playing army games to pass the time as they wait | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
for something bad to happen. The preppers find comfort in the | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
idea that they will have some sort of control of the outcome of their | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
lives, no matter the circumstances. But whether all their preparations | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
will give them any sort of advantage in the unlikely event the world | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
falls apart is another question. Peer power - | :39:27. | :39:38. | |
we'll have the latest as the House of Lords forces ministers to back | :39:39. | :39:45. | |
down on tax credits. Who will be the next president | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
of world football? We now know that eight men are | :39:49. | :40:01. | |
competing for the top job at Fifa. The vacancy emerged following Sepp | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
Blatter's suspension amid conspiracy allegations, which he denied. | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
One of the men keen for the job is the president | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
His name is Sheikh Salman bin Ibrahim Al Khalifa. | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
He's been talking exclusively to our sports reporter Richard Conway, | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
Who is this man? He is the most famous man in world football that | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
most people have probably never heard of! And has been in the | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
further two years and wants to be the next president, he thinks he can | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
effect change. The election race has been split wide open for various | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
reasons and he has emerged as probably one of the leading | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
contenders. Does he have a name? His name is Sheik Salman. Bribery | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
allegations, corruption allegations surrounding beaver over the last | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
year. This man have questions over his human rights record. Back in | :40:49. | :40:56. | |
2011 when the Arab Spring, the wave of pro-democracy demonstrations and | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
protests swept across North Africa into the Middle East, it hit | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
Bahrain, people came out onto the streets to demonstrate and protest, | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
but Bahrain instigated a huge crackdown. They squashed the protest | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
very quickly. As part of that, in the aftermath, there have been | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
allegations that Sheik Salman headed a committee which identified | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
footballers and athletes who had taken part in the pro-democracy | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
marchers. I put this to him in my interview and he said very clearly | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
that he had no part to play in it. These are false, nastily lies that | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
have been repeated again and again. The past and the present. And to | :41:37. | :41:43. | |
come with such allegations! Accusations, it is really not just | :41:44. | :41:50. | |
damaging but really hurting -- to come with such accusations. Some | :41:51. | :41:53. | |
people have other agendas on the table. So, Sheik Salman, along with | :41:54. | :42:00. | |
the other presidential candidates, will have to pass and integrity | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
check before being allowed to compete in the selection. What is an | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
integrity check, and will it be enough to convince people that Fifa | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
are turning over a newly? The selection committee is headed by an | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
independent member of the for, a prominent businessmen in Switzerland | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
and Italy. You will examine all of the candidates, there are grand | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
papers, look into their past, and says, are you fit and proper to be | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
the next Fifa President? It is a big job, given some of the allegations | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
we have seen hanging over some of the candidates and that have been | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
happening with beef over the past few months, but that is his job. | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
Sheik Salman's job in the four months until the selection, which is | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
February the 26th next year, is to convince enough of the 209 member | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
associations that he can bring change to the organisation. He says | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
he does not want to lead it in the way Sepp Blatter let Fifa, he wants | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
to be different, a nonexecutive president, which means giving more | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
power was, in his words, to the people who know football, who are | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
professionals. He says that will safeguard Fifa's future. | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
I'm not looking to be an executive president. I think we have to bring | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
the right people in, we have to bring the professionals to do the | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
job. And making the right choices in who you bring. Choosing the general | :43:23. | :43:35. | |
secretary, if we consider a CEO, is an important decision and we have to | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
make sure we choose the right person to handle the day-to-day job. | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
One of the most intriguing things is that he does not want to be paid for | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
this job. He says it was a nonexecutive president, about | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
serving Fifa, serving football. That will come as a surprise to many. He | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
is a rich man, clearly, but as he sees it it is about serving | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
football, not taking. What does he say about the Russia and Qatar world | :44:00. | :44:09. | |
cups, which are booming, with so much controversy over how they were | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
one? 11 of the voters have been suspected, band, or are under | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
investigation. Lots of people being the integrity of the vote is now in | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
doubt, given the numbers involved. Sheik Salman says individuals may be | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
at fault and they would have to be punished, but Russia needs to have | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
that World Cup in 2018, and Qatar in 2022. He is a fierce defender of | :44:34. | :44:35. | |
those world cups. I think Russia is the biggest | :44:36. | :44:44. | |
country in the world. They have invested so much in the game. We are | :44:45. | :44:58. | |
all, I think, the people who are left around here, supportive of | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
Russia 2018. If any development occur, this is something else, but | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
so far from all of the investigation that occurred in the past four, five | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
years, there is nothing that came out. When are we going to just keep | :45:15. | :45:21. | |
on assuming that there is something? If there are wrongdoings | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
by individuals, then I think those individuals have been sanctioned or | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
penalised, but it doesn't matter, it doesn't mean that the World Cup in | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
Russia, there is something wrong with it. I think already Russia has | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
started the stadium, they have started everything. It can get us | :45:41. | :45:48. | |
into big legal battles about if and if, and I don't think we want to go | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
there. Is that the same for Qatar as well? Absolutely. Qatar is not just | :45:54. | :45:58. | |
a country hosting, the whole region is hosting this event. It is | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
important for the region, not just for Qatar itself. We are all looking | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
forward to have an event like this and I think it is right for regions | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
like these to happen events like this. | :46:13. | :46:19. | |
The race are come down to two. A South African has emerged as one of | :46:20. | :46:29. | |
the contenders to. It will be intriguing to see how it plays out. | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
Sepp Blatter has been suspended for 90 days, we should see a ban from | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
Fifa coming down that will end his time in football. He hopes to try | :46:40. | :46:41. | |
and clear his name. Thank you. | :46:42. | :46:51. | |
It feels like the countdown to winter has started, doesn't it, but | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
with warm air floodling up from the made trainian, between this area of | :46:57. | :46:58. | |
low pressure temperatures are picking up. We saw the high Steens | :46:59. | :47:05. | |
-- teens yesterday. You will notice the weather front lurking, that has | :47:06. | :47:07. | |
produced ever I have rain already, more of that to come, as we go | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
through to the middle of the day, that heavy rain pushing up in | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
southern and western parts of Wales too. But still mild among the rain, | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
with temperatures round about the mid teens. Fairly wet day for much | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
of Northern Ireland. The rain staggering slowly into the North | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
East. One of the warm spots though is likely to be across the | :47:27. | :47:29. | |
north-west of Scotland. Here, lovely sunshine to come, but not across | :47:30. | :47:36. | |
eastern Scotland. Here lots of cloud shrouding the hills and fog down | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
eastern England. At lower levels we have had a foggy start to the day | :47:41. | :47:43. | |
with temperatures picking up. There is the sign of the mild air, up | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
round 17 degrees in London, even by early afternoon. We will keep the | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
rain edging further north as the afternoon wears on, but sunny spells | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
breaking through, south-east England, East Anglia, a bit misty | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
over the hills but perhaps parts of North Wales, touching the high teen, | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
north-west Scotland maybe 18-20 and the south-east popping up to 18, 19 | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
as well through this afternoon. Feeling pleasantly warm. Mild | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
tonight because we will keep the winds coming from the same | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
direction. A lot of cloud. The rain is change, moving further eastwards | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
as the night wears on. That could allow fog to turn up in Wales, the | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
West Midlands, down in the south-west but double figures. | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
Tomorrow it is eastern Scotland, eastern England that get most of the | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
rain, particularly through the early part of the day. Further west, the | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
better the chance of getting a dry day, with good spells of sunshine | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
coming through and in the sunshine, temperatures at least up into the | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
mid teen, not as high as the warmer spots today. We keep an unsettled | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
theme going through the latter part of the week. Another band of rain | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
pushing from west to east during Thursday. Still on the mild side, | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
let us do it all again on Friday. Some uncertainty about where the | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
heaviest of the rain is likely to be on Friday, but that common theme, | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
temperatures once again getting up to round about the mid teens. I | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
think we can keep that going into the weekend too. This is an early | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
look at the weekend forecast. You see low pressure tending to ease | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
away. The winds coming in from the south, so on the mild side. Many | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
places dry with pleasant spells of sunshine to come as well. | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
Hello, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme | :49:27. | :49:27. | |
A double defeat for the government in the Lords last night on cuts to | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
tax credits, and anger among ministers about an unelected chamber | :49:34. | :49:35. | |
Unelected Labour and liberal Lord's have defeated a financial matter | :49:36. | :49:47. | |
passed by the elected House of Commons, and David Cameron and I are | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
clear that this raises constitutional issues that need to | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
We'll explain exactly what the votes last night | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
Is it right that an unelected bunch of Lords can vote | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
Or are they doing exactly what you'd want from the second chamber | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
You've been getting in touch throughout the prog. | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
Les on email says, "The Lords were right to step in. | :50:08. | :50:10. | |
The government may have been elected but they were not elected to pick | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
Once again, a big thank you to the Lords." | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
And Lee says, "I want to see the House of Lords abolished, | :50:18. | :50:19. | |
but I'm glad to see that these callous cuts are to be delayed." | :50:20. | :50:26. | |
We'll be finding out why some members of the Muslim community | :50:27. | :50:28. | |
in Rotherham are boycotting South Yorkshire Police in a row about what | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
they call the "demonisation" of Muslims in the town. | :50:32. | :50:39. | |
Matthew Etherington was a Premier League footballer with plenty of | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
money and a loving family - he will tell us in his first TV interview | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
The rate at which the economy grows has dipped to a | :50:46. | :50:59. | |
UK output was up by 0.5% between July and September, - compared to | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
UK output was up by 0.5% between July and September, compared to | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
That's partly due to the biggest fall in construction in three years. | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
The rest of the news this morning - the Government's been forced | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
by unelected peers to back down on tax credits, but says nothing | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
is now ruled out in a rapid review of the House of Lords. | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
The Lords voted to delay cuts to the benefit. | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
But they're being accused of breaking parliamentary convention | :51:29. | :51:30. | |
to "wreck"' a financial programme passed by MPs. | :51:31. | :51:32. | |
Baroness Meacher, an independent crossbench peer who put forward one | :51:33. | :51:34. | |
motions, told me she understands the Chancellor will change | :51:35. | :51:36. | |
A 15-year-old boy arrested in connection with last week's | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
cyber attack on the TalkTalk website has been released on bail. | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
The teenager had been detained at an address in County Antrim | :51:44. | :51:45. | |
Our correspondent Andy Martin is in Belfast with the latest. | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
What is the latest Andy? He was released this mornlet. He was | :51:49. | :51:56. | |
arrested yesterday afternoon, about 4.20 in what has been described as a | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
joint operation between the Metropolitan Police in London, the | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
Police Service of Northern Ireland, and the National Crime Agency, so it | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
is obviously being taken seriously, however, how serious the attack was | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
in the first place seems somewhat unclear. Last week we were told this | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
was a significant and a sustained attack, however that was downgraded | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
by the company yesterday somewhat, when they said they believed that | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
the attack was smaller than originally thought. They have | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
revealed that credit card details which it is believed were taken as | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
part of this hack were only partial, so some of the numbers would have | :52:35. | :52:44. | |
had Xs on them and Talk Talk insist this was not allowing any money to | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
be withdrawn on its own. The shares fell by 12% in the company | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
The Supreme Court is to review the legal principle | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
of joint enterprise - which allows several people to be charged with | :52:55. | :52:56. | |
the same offence, regardless of the part played by each person. | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
Campaigners claim it has led to numerous miscarriages of justice, | :53:00. | :53:01. | |
with hundreds of young men allegedly being given mandatory life | :53:02. | :53:04. | |
sentences for crimes in which they had only a minor role. | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
Canadian investigators have warned that it may take months to determine | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
what caused the fatal sinking of a whale watching boat close to | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
Five Britons were killed when the ship capsized on Sunday - one | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
Those are the main news stories. Time for the sport now. | :53:17. | :53:35. | |
It's a big week for Jose Mourinho Jess. | :53:36. | :53:37. | |
Can he really be danger of getting the sack? | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
After five defeats, his side, reining champions Chelsea are 15th. | :53:41. | :53:47. | |
No wonder he looks like a man under pressure. That I lost to West Ham at | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
the weekend, and Jose Mourinho was sent to the stands for comments he | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
made to the referee, in what seems to be an increasingly troubled time | :53:56. | :54:01. | |
for the Portuguese boss. Joining me is Patrick Barclay who has written | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
books on Mourinho. I am interested to know what has gone wrong? It | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
started from the first game of the season after the row he had with the | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
team doctor. She left the club. Did that unsettled the ship? I think it | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
was already unsettled. I think basically, you could, if you were | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
really careful, you could see cracks towards the end, in the second half | :54:24. | :54:31. | |
of last season, when he seemed to be actually causing Chelsea more | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
problems than he solved, with his criticisms is of referees that were | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
excessive. You remember the accusation of a campaign against | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
Chelsea and you thought, accuse hob a minute, this is not tactical, that | :54:42. | :54:49. | |
is paranoid. Obviously. They didn't have a good summer, they didn't do | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
much in the transfer market. He went into the season, I think, already | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
raw and on edge and the doctor case was so, I mean it is only my opinion | :55:00. | :55:06. | |
but it is widely shared opinion he was so wrong in that, and so | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
blatantly wrong not to apologise quickly, and put it right, that that | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
can only have made things an awful lot worse, rubbed assault into his | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
own wounds so to speak. If you look at Mourinho's career, he is a man | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
used to success, does he have the experience to deal with losing an | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
out of form players? Only limited. Never actually, yes, you, you know, | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
out of form players never on this scale. Even at Real Madrid, where he | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
fell out with a sort of core of experienced Spanish players, and | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
that went on for a while. They still played for the club, even if they | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
weren't playing for him. This is different. I mean, almost basically | :55:53. | :56:01. | |
from one to 11-Plus substitutes they have all lost form simultaneously. | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
While I think it subpoena pretty silly in football, to blame the | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
manager for everything, it is becoming increasingly silly, in this | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
case there is no other way of doing it. If everybody suddenly drops, so | :56:15. | :56:23. | |
quickly, then it is clearly the manager's fault. You know, he, in | :56:24. | :56:30. | |
his heart must know this, and he is sort of doing it. If everybody | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
suddenly drops, so quickly, then it is clearly the manager's fault. You | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
know, he, in his heart must know this, and he is sort of taking | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
refuge in saying "I am always right, because I am always right, because I | :56:40. | :56:42. | |
am always right." Which is in a toddler wouldn't be -- particularly | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
attractive but in a grown man it is perturbing. Do you think his | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
position is in jeopardy, could he get the sack? I think he could. I | :56:52. | :56:59. | |
think any football manager can, particularly one whose owner Roman | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
Abramovich, although he has appointed him twice and not | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
regretted it, in terms of the trophies won, doesn't really, can't | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
really afford any further embarrassment. I mean, if they beat, | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
I mean they were pretty good with ten men in the second half at West | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
Ham. There was a lot of the old Chelsea spirit there if they can | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
carry it into the game with Liverpool, on Saturday lunchtime, | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
then, you know, we might be able, we might be seeing the beginning of the | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
end of this. Thank you so much. That is all we have time for, I will have | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
to stop you. Sorry for interrupting you. That is all the sport for | :57:40. | :57:44. | |
today. Hello, thank you for joining us this | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
morning, welcome to the programme We're on BBC 2 and the BBC News | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
Channel until 11 this morning. Your contributions to this | :57:52. | :57:55. | |
programme and your expertise Here are some comments. Don said the | :57:56. | :58:08. | |
pre-Budget reports is not April 1st. Is that new comedy? Derek says I, | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
most are not impressed. Derek says by the time he pumped up the canoe | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
he would have been eaten alive. One says what next? And Brenda says, | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
being prepared is never a waste of time. Think of power cuts, being | :58:24. | :58:29. | |
stuck on roads. It is never wrong. If you want to share the film you | :58:30. | :58:30. | |
can find it on the programme page. Your contributions are really | :58:31. | :58:41. | |
welcome, you expertise is key. Texts charged at the standard network | :58:42. | :58:44. | |
rate. So here's what we've learned | :58:45. | :58:55. | |
from last night's Lords vote on tax credits cuts, | :58:56. | :58:57. | |
and some things we haven't learned. The Government's said this morning | :58:58. | :59:00. | |
that changes will be announced in the Autumn Statement, | :59:01. | :59:02. | |
the mini-Budget, There's talk | :59:03. | :59:04. | |
of a constitutional crisis, and the Government's ruling nothing out | :59:05. | :59:08. | |
about what it'll do to the Lords. So will these tax credit | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
changes still happen? David Cameron has ordered a rapid | :59:12. | :59:26. | |
review. So, the key question is of course, will these tax credit | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
changes in their old form still happen. And the answer is, we kind | :59:31. | :59:36. | |
of don't really know yet. Expect to hear more details over the coming | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
months although George Osborne said he would look at helping in the | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
transition period. What will the Government do to the House of Lords | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
once the review is completed? Again, we don't know yet. So what does this | :59:47. | :59:52. | |
mean for George Osborne's chances of being our next Prime Minister when | :59:53. | :59:54. | |
David Cameron stands down. We don't know. There is a lot of things we | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
don't know. But it is not the news Mr Osborne would have wanted and it | :00:00. | :00:03. | |
is good news for his rival for the leadership of the Conservative | :00:04. | :00:06. | |
Party, Boris Johnson. Let us talk to our political correspondent at | :00:07. | :00:07. | |
Westminster. So where does this leave | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
the debate now? Our political correspondent | :00:12. | :00:13. | |
Chris Mason is in Westminster. To borrow a phrase that you were | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
using there, I don't know. I think we need to use that perhaps again | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
and again with a few of these question, there are three main | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
implications, the implication for tax credits so some tweaking will go | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
on in the Autumn Statement in round about a month's time but what kind | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
of tweaking? Could there be a delay, so that this only affects new | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
recipients of tax credits and there is a slow phasing in of the changes | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
for those who are currently recipients, that would mean there | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
wouldn't be letters developing on doormats round Christmas telling | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
millions they would get a big drop in their household income. We don't | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
know that is many the Chancellor is going to do. No doubt that is one | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
thought among others being kicked round in the Treasury. George | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
Osborne is in the House of Commons in the next hour or so, answering | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
Treasury questions, so who knows we might get an insight there into what | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
the Government is planning. Then as you say there is the implication for | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
the House of Lords, and what the Government does with the | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
relationship between the elected House of Commons and the House of | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
Lords. Chris Grayling saying nothing is ruled out. He said nothing is | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
ruled in, so back to that theme about us not knowing what they are | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
going to do. And then the bigger question about what this might mean | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
for who our next Prime Minister might be. It might mean not a great | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
deal because politics moves quickly, and people might quickly forget | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
this. But there is no disputing this has been a rough 24 hours at the end | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
of a rough week, for George Osborne, so enter a politician with blonde | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
hair who you might just have heard of. Here is Boris Johnson, he knows | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
how to do a photo opportunity doing a tug-of-war this morning outside | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
City Hall on the banks of the Thames. This was an event organised | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
by the Royal British Legion ahead of Poppy Day. Boris Johnson reflecting | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
his shoes office shoes weren't appropriate attire for grabbing hold | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
of a bit of rope and trying to win a tug-of-war on grass. | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
Here are his reflections on a tough time for George Osborne on what it | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
means for the Government. I think the House of Lords is in grave | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
danger of pushing its looks, frankly. This is not what they are | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
there to do, they are a revising chamber, not bad to throw out | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
financial bills from the elected House of Commons. And I think the | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
Prime Minister and Chancellor are right to be aggrieved about that. | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
The Chancellor McGeorge has said he is in listening mode, and that is | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
completely right. What everybody wants, what George wants, what we | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
all want is a way of reforming and unfair system in a way that helps | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
the poorest and neediest. Was he in trouble causing mood this | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
morning? No, he wasn't, it was very much the Government line we were | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
hearing from the Mayor of London, setting out, as they see it, the | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
industry is that the unelected House of Lords caused them so much grief | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
last night -- the injustice. There was not any hint, we tried again and | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
again to hand him enough rope, to see if he would say something a | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
little bit spiky about George Osborne. He resisted the temptation. | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
There is a thing! Thank you very much, Chris. | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
Some more comments from you, we wanted to get some fear link from | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
you about whether you thought the Lords did the right thing last | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
night, a tiny snapshot, unscientific but it has never stopped us before! | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
Let's have a look. One viewer says, finally, the House of Lords steps | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
in. The cuts are unacceptable and it is great that Labour and Liberal | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
peers saw some sense. A tweet says, the House of Lords | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
acted correctly and proved that true democracy exists and we should not | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
be bullied by the House of Commons. True democracy, unelected? | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
Interesting. One more for now, what is the point of a second chamber is | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
its sole purpose is to wave through bad Government legislation? | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
Keep those coming in. You can tweet us or send us a message on Facebook | :04:38. | :04:39. | |
or e-mail, and text as well. An investigation is underway | :04:40. | :04:41. | |
in America after a video emerged apparently | :04:42. | :04:43. | |
showing an officer throwing We can show you some | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
of that film now. There is the opposite. That is a | :04:48. | :05:06. | |
female pupil. This is at Spring Valley high school in Columbia, | :05:07. | :05:07. | |
South Carolina. It's thought that this officer was | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
called after He appears to restrain her around | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
the neck, before quickly pulling her Soon after, | :05:17. | :05:25. | |
he appears to throw the pupil The footage has been shared | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
internationally on social media, with the hashtag | :05:29. | :05:42. | |
"assault at Spring Valley High" used Much more to come on that, no doubt, | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
on BBC News. In his first TV interview, former | :05:45. | :05:53. | |
Premier League footballer Matthew Etherington will tell us | :05:54. | :06:01. | |
about the devastating effect his gambling addiction had | :06:02. | :06:03. | |
on his life both physically and emotionally and what made him | :06:04. | :06:05. | |
finally seek the help he needed. Some members | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
of the Muslim community in Rotherham have announced a boycott of | :06:09. | :06:10. | |
South Yorkshire Police over what they call the "demonisation" | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
of Muslims in the town. They say since the publication | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
of the Jay report into child sexual exploitation, they've been under | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
what they call "perpetual attack". The Jay report revealed | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
around 1400 children were sexually exploited, predominantly by men | :06:27. | :06:33. | |
of Pakistani heritage, in Muslims say Islamophobia in | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
Rotherham is now at an all-time high and that recent demonstrations | :06:37. | :06:51. | |
by political groups like Britain First mean they're fearful | :06:52. | :06:53. | |
to leave their houses. These pictures we're | :06:54. | :06:55. | |
about to show you were filmed by our reporter last month at a Britain | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
First demonstration in Rotherham. Britain First! Fighting back! | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
Britain First! Fighting back! We, the people of Rotherham who came | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
out when the first Jay Report came out, we demonstrated on behalf | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
of the victims. These guys are milking it | :07:10. | :07:11. | |
because they're Islamophobes. They hate every Muslim, they hate | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
Islam and they use every opportunity WHO ARE YA? | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
WHO ARE YA? Islam will be banned, | :07:17. | :07:18. | |
because Islam is utterly... So, as a consequence, | :07:19. | :07:20. | |
freedom of religion, There should be no freedom of | :07:21. | :07:27. | |
religion, for a religion like that. We can talk now to Muhbeen Hussain, | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
the chair of the British Muslim Youth, who organised the boycott, | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
and to South Yorkshire's Police and I would be grateful, gentlemen, if | :07:39. | :07:48. | |
you would talk to each other. Muhbeen Hussain, tell Alan Billings | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
why you are calling the boycott and what it means in practical terms? | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
Firstly, I want to make it clear the boycott has not just been called by | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
the British Muslim Youth but by and Alliance Party, the brother and | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
community for Alliance, where every single mosque in rubber, and other | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
organisations, have signed up to boycott any engagement with the | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
police. What we are saying is that you -- is not that you boycott | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
services from the police but that because the police have failed in | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
tackling Islamophobia and communicating with our community, we | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
will boycott any engagement with the police. To be clear, the reason is | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
because you say when there are attacks on Muslim people or abuse of | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
Muslim people, the police won't, what? First and foremost, the police | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
pushed a pernicious lie, suggesting they did not make arrests in the | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
grooming scandal because of fears of being called racist and other | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
claims. Sorry, I was well aware that was one of the reasons that it was | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
said the police did not investigate the men of Pakistani heritage for | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
fear of being seen as racist. What are the other pernicious lies, as | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
you describe them? They have come into our meetings and said one thing | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
to our bases at community level, come to our community and recognised | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
we have heightened tensions, but behind closed doors there has been | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
no action taken. We have been told, for example, in one incident we can | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
review CCTV footage. When they go back they say, there is no CCTV | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
footage. These U-turns have been happening. You are unhappy with the | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
way they have been investigating? And having in gauge went. We have | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
been in isolation for the last 14 months, our women cannot go into the | :09:38. | :09:46. | |
street, young people being bullied. 14 demonstrations have taken place, | :09:47. | :09:48. | |
27 separate cases of Islamophobic abuse have been reported to Tell | :09:49. | :09:57. | |
Mama, a Muslim aborting organisation. Are you saying the | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
police are not investigated, is that your main issue? The problem we have | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
is that the police are not putting any prevention schemes and projects | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
in and therefore there is no point having engagement if our engagement | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
and cohesion will not be taken on board. To be clear, what sort of | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
prevention measures do you want to see put in place? Any, at the | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
moment. There is an increase in Islamophobia. Have we spoken to the | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
Muslim community? I don't talk about those people paid by the Council or | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
police officers. What implementation have we done? Have we given young | :10:33. | :10:43. | |
people in schools, people in the town centre, advice on how to report | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
hate crime? The Prime Minister has called on separate reports, we have | :10:47. | :10:48. | |
been campaigning for reporting on what has been done in South | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
Yorkshire to be done to give people confidence in the police system. | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
Frankly, nothing. Alan Billings, a huge lack of confidence in your | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
force in South Yorkshire by the Muslim people in Rotherham. What do | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
you say? IKEA what is being said. It is not by force, I am not the Chief | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
Constable, I am police and crime commissioner so my job is to hold | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
the police to account on behalf of the public. Idea what this section | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
of the public is saying and accept there is something in what they are | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
saying otherwise they would not be what they feel. My problem at the | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
moment is we simply don't know where to go now if they won't talk to us. | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
How do we know what the grievances are and what the complaints are? How | :11:28. | :11:39. | |
come we put them right? It is essential now that we do not | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
disengage but that we engage with this group, which I suspect may be a | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
newly formed group, and that we come together to try to go forward. If we | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
don't do that, all we have is complete negativity and that is | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
exactly what Rotherham does not want, the people of Rotherham are | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
sick and tired of feeling under the cosh all the time, they want to make | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
progress, so I am happy to meet with this group to hear what they have to | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
say to try to get to the bottom of what these grievances are and then | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
to go to the police on their behalf and perhaps ultimately bring them | :12:08. | :12:16. | |
and the police together again, if that is what is needed. We are all | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
about engagement, we have had 14 months of engagement. If you ask a | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
Muslim from Rotherham to walk into any other city in the country, I | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
felt the same when I mention I am a Muslim from Rotherham in Europe, the | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
stereotype of grooming is put on you, this is the feeling in the | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
Muslim community in Rotherham. We want engagement and dialogue but we | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
have boycotted engagement with South Yorkshire Police in Rotherham. We | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
have had no calls from the Chief Constable's office. We will hold a | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
dialogue but this boycott was not just called by myself but the | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
alliances and community. If we can agree on a public meeting with the | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
right stakeholders, we want engagement and insurances that we | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
can be heard and listened to as equal citizens. We have had an | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
unprecedented account of child sexual exploitation, we were the | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
first Muslim organisation in the UK who came out whilst being called | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
rumours, being blamed, having women and children attacked, pitches | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
attacks, we still came out and said, we are against child sexual | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
exploitation and stood with the victims of child sexual | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
exploitation. IKEA what being said there and I am very happy to take up | :13:23. | :13:30. | |
that request that we do now have a meeting and dialogue between myself | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
as Police and Crime Commissioner and this particular group, and see where | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
we can progress from there. If attempts in the past have failed, I | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
am sorry about that, but the only way we will make any progress is by | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
coming together and listening to what each has to say. We need | :13:45. | :13:53. | |
assurances, we need action. For 14 months we have had false promises. | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
If these promises are not false, if we can be provided with the simple | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
things we ask for, which is to be recognised as an ordinarily | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
community feeling the tensions that we do, and to be heard, then of | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
course we can have dialogue, but for that to happen we need the right | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
circumstances, the right stakeholders, and we need the public | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
and community involved from day one because they are the people feeling | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
the pressure. What I am saying to you is that I am ready to meet with | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
you on your terms in any place that you want to name at any time you | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
want a name, because I think that the last thing we want is a | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
breakdown of relationships between us. The real enemy here is not the | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
police and it is not different parts of our community here in South | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
Yorkshire. It is those who come into our community, you mentioned the 14 | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
marches and demonstrations, that is what is disrupting towns like | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
Rotherham, Doncaster, Sheffield, and it is that which we all have a | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
vested interest in opposing. If we can come together and talk about | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
where you think the police are letting you down, then I think we | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
have the beginnings of a positive dialogue, and we can make sure there | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
is real, positive action going forward. Will you do that? If we | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
simply put off all communication, how can there be any movement | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
forward? It is impossible. Apologies are not enough. But will you meet | :15:16. | :15:22. | |
Alan Billings? We will speak to the community and the Alliance, the | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
people involved. Dish Muslim youth is an individual stakeholder, over | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
1000 people in one day find a petition saying they had no | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
confidence... You will ask them? We will have a public meeting, we want | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
dialogue but we need people to be held accountable for their failings, | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
for telling us one thing, and we have proved where they have told us | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
one thing in a community meeting and another behind closed doors. Will | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
they be held accountable for those actions and those misconceptions? | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
These blatant lies that they have provided us? I need to know what | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
those issues are and the only way we can do that is by meeting and | :16:01. | :16:09. | |
talking. Thank you both very much for coming on the programme. Alan | :16:10. | :16:11. | |
Billings, Police and Crime Commissioner the South Yorkshire, | :16:12. | :16:13. | |
and Muhbeen Hussain, thank you for your time. | :16:14. | :16:14. | |
Thanks for joining us today - still to come before 11. | :16:15. | :16:16. | |
Break news and it is to do with the family of Mark Duggan, who you will | :16:17. | :16:33. | |
remember whose shootings sparked summer riots in 2011, they have won | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
the right to appeal against an inquest decision he was lawfully | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
killed. Last year an inquest jury concluded while he dinot have a gun | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
in his hand when he was shot dead, -- did not. The police marksman did | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
not behave unlawfully. The Duggan family and lawyers said the | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
conclusions were contradictory. The officer involved said he believed | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
Mark Duggan did have a weapon in his hand when he opened fire and he | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
thought he was going to shoot at the police. The jury said it was more | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
likely he had thrown a gun on to some grass 20 feet away and a weapon | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
was found there. Well, today, a judge in the last minute or so as | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
the Court of Appeal has granted the Duggan family permission to appeal | :17:16. | :17:16. | |
against the inquest decision. Thanks for joining us today - | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
still to come before 11. Matthew Etherington was a Premier | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
League footballer with plenty He will tell us | :17:24. | :17:25. | |
in his first TV interview why he The mystery of the deaf | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
and mute Indian woman who returned home after becoming stranded | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
in Pakistan for 13 years. Now there are questions | :17:36. | :17:37. | |
about who her real family are. The Government's been forced | :17:38. | :17:48. | |
by unelected peers to back down on tax credits, but says nothing is | :17:49. | :17:56. | |
now ruled out in a rapid review The Lords voted to delay cuts to | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
the benefit. But they're being accused | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
of breaking parliamentary convention to "wreck" a financial programme | :18:03. | :18:04. | |
passed by MPs. Poor figures from the building | :18:05. | :18:17. | |
industry contributed to the economy growing more slowly than expected. | :18:18. | :18:25. | |
GDP was up by 0.5% compared to 0.7% in the previous three months, after | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
the biggest fall in construction output in three years. | :18:29. | :18:29. | |
A 15-year-old boy from County Antrim who was arrested in connection with | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
last week's cyber attack on the TalkTalk website has been released | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
Millions of customers were warned their | :18:37. | :18:38. | |
personal details, including bank details and email addresses, could | :18:39. | :18:40. | |
The complex legal question of crime and joint enterprise is up | :18:41. | :18:48. | |
Campaigners claim the joint enterprise principle has led to | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
miscarriages of justice, and that hundreds of young men have been | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
jailed for life for crimes in which they played only a minor role. | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
Canadian investigators have warned that it may take months to determine | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
what caused the fatal sinking of a whale watching boat close to | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
Five Britons were killed when the ship capsized on Sunday - one | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
Those are the main news stories. Time for the sport now. | :19:12. | :19:24. | |
Good morning. Here are your sports headlines. It is a big night for | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho as they take on Stoke in the League | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
Cup. There are reports he job may be in jeopardy if results don't | :19:37. | :19:39. | |
improve. They are currently 150th in the table. | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
-- 15th in the table. One of the candidates to become Fifa's | :19:45. | :19:53. | |
President has denied allegations of serious human rights atrocities in | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
his country. The England cricket coach says he doesn't believe Rashid | :19:58. | :20:03. | |
for the shot that lost the test against Pakistan. Bayliss may make | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
changes and says Butler's place will be discussed. That is all the sport | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
for now. See you tomorrow. She was missing for nearly 13 years, | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
and now there are question marks The woman, who is known as Geeta, | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
and is deaf and mute, disappeared from her family home | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
in the Punjab in India It's thought she wandered | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
into Pakistan. Efforts to find her family began | :20:25. | :20:26. | |
in August, after India accepted for the first time that Geeta was | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
one of its citizens, and Indian television channels | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
started airing her photographs. She initally identified a number | :20:33. | :20:33. | |
of people in photographs as her family, but now says she | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
doesn't recognise them. It's a case that's gripped India, | :20:37. | :20:38. | |
and now the Government say DNA tests will be carried out to make sure | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
she's reunited with her true family. Let us talk now to our correspondent | :20:42. | :21:04. | |
in Delhi. Tell us what we know about Geeta. As you said this is her story | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
is something that has gripped the whole nation, it has caught the | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
imagination of people here, because her story resembles that of a | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
Bollywood film that was released in India, and the plot of that film | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
resolves round a Pakistani girl who is stranded in India and is later | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
reunited with her family. Geeta 's story has the same kind of twist and | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
turns if I can say, that appear in any Bollywood film in India. She | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
arrived yesterday, in Delhi. As soon as she was presented to the family | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
that she had previously recognised in photographs, she refused to | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
recognise them, so now the Government is saying that DNA | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
samples will be collected and sent for confirmation, whether or not | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
Geeta belongs to that family. Mean while they are saying that Geeta | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
will be kept in a care home and the state will continue to take care of | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
her. Interestingly, four other families have claimed that Geeta is | :22:09. | :22:10. | |
their relative. Right. OK. But hopefully the DNA | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
test should prove the truth, you would have thought? Yes, exactly. | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
That is what everybody is watching out for, in India. This story has, | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
you know, gripped the imagination of not just the people in India but | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
also in Pakistan. As soon as an announce was made yesterday now DNA | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
test reports will be awaited, the news channels and even on social | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
media, this news was taken up big time, and now everybody is just | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
waiting to see what the DNA reports have to say and what the final | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
destiny of this mystery girl would be. | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
Thank you for talking to us. Thank you for your comments about tax | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
credits, and about the House of Lords and the vote last night. We | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
asked you if you thought they did the right thing or if it was wrong | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
for an unelected chamber to overstep the mark. Babses sent us a poem. | :23:08. | :23:15. | |
Georgy Porgy squeezed the poor to made them cry. When the Lords came | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
out to play they kicked his ass and ran away. | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
Tom on e-mail said the House of Lords is a pompous organisation that | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
should have been established years ago. -- polished. Why bother having | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
Parliamentary elections at all. Another one says it is about time | :23:38. | :23:47. | |
the Lord did something good at all. Another one. The House of Lords | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
acted on the side of the poorest in society. What they did was right and | :23:51. | :23:51. | |
proper. Next or reporter meets the preppers | :23:52. | :24:19. | |
the men who make sure they are fully equipped to survive in the event of | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
a catastrophe. Roach spent most of his life in force. He is a prepper. | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
Preppers are people who feel as if catastrophe is imminent and so | :24:30. | :24:33. | |
prepare for a huge range of potential disasters. From nuclear | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
war to financial collapse. Roach holds drills where he escapes to a | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
location for such an event. I asked them to take me along. He told me to | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
come to this door which is supposedly his house. | :24:50. | :24:57. | |
The specific scenario we were doing was in the case of contagion or a | :24:58. | :25:11. | |
pandemic. It is not the most inconspicuous | :25:12. | :25:19. | |
tent. This isn't survival. What this is for me, is living simply. | :25:20. | :25:27. | |
In the space of about 30 minutes we have set up camp. We have a fire, we | :25:28. | :25:34. | |
have some food. He is cooking bangers and mash, life is good but | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
we are still in a forest so it is not that good. If there was | :25:40. | :25:47. | |
contagion and zombie like creatures tried to attack you what would | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
happen? I would kill them. With the knife? With anything. With anything. | :25:51. | :25:57. | |
With anything. With anything. With your hand, with a piece of wood. | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
Would you try and bail out if there was people who came, or would you | :26:04. | :26:11. | |
fight back? Ultimately, it is, so many people possibles. Welcome to my | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
world. Do you think that deep down inside you kind of, because you | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
spent so long preparing for it, you kind of hope something is going to | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
happen? I don't want the world to end, I don't want bad things to | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
happen to good people. I am not in control of the world. Are you | :26:33. | :26:41. | |
paranoid? No. I suppose most people don't think about such consequences | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
and such potential disasters. Some would say you are taking this too | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
far? To a degree they are absolutely right. What you could do, is put | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
every spare penny you have in the bank for a rainy day, that is | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
prepping. You could pay off your mortgage ten years early, whatever | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
you decide, you have to do to prepare for the future, that makes | :27:06. | :27:15. | |
you a prepper. If you want to watch or share the | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
full film you can find it on our programme page. | :27:19. | :27:20. | |
Matthew Etherington was a Premier League footballer with | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
West Ham and Stoke with a pretty good life - a salary that | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
most 20-somethings could only dream of, and a loving wife and family. | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
Yet behind the scenes he was hiding a devastating secret - | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
At its worst, when he was playing for West Ham, it was so bad that he | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
was gambling away tens of thousands of pounds every week. | :27:37. | :27:38. | |
With ?1.5 million worth of debts, he finally sought | :27:39. | :27:41. | |
the help that he needed to stop gambling for good, but he paid | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
the price physically and emotionally as his marriage broke down. | :27:45. | :27:46. | |
He retired from football last year and is here to tell his story | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
How are you? Good. Why don't you tell the audience how the gambling | :27:50. | :28:08. | |
began? It was when I signed for Tottenham, I moved from Peterborough | :28:09. | :28:10. | |
to Tottenham when I was 18. We got put up in a hotel, me and Simon Day | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
advice who moved with me at the time. Day-to-day life, it is good, I | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
am privileged to do it, but you get in for training, 9.30. You train | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
round 10.30. You are home, we were in the hotel round 1.00, so there is | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
a lot of time to fill. We were earning very good money, very | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
privileged to earn that money, as I said, but time and a lot of money on | :28:37. | :28:43. | |
your hands. It is not a good recipe. So it was boredom and access to | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
cash? It was for me. I made the choice I made first and foremost, | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
there is no-one else to blame but myself. I looked at The Evening | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
Standard and there was a racing card there for the dog, I thought I would | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
go along, that is how it started. It was gradual. It got bad in the next | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
three or four years but that is where it started. Right. How much | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
were you earning? A few thousand pounds a week. At West Ham? Round | :29:09. | :29:17. | |
20. ?20,000 a week? Yes. Stoke? Higher, 30, yeah. ?30,000 a week. | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
Like I said, very privileged but stupid at the same time. I learned | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
my lesson. Was it worse at West Ham or did it get worse at Stoke? West | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
Ham was when it was very very bad, and then I stopped, my mother made | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
me go to Sporting Chance funded by the PFA and Tonied Adams. I didn't | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
want to go. I was scared to go to meetings. -- Tony. People were | :29:49. | :29:56. | |
saying I was doing this and that. I became insular. You hide everything | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
as a gambler, deep down. I thought if I went to Gamblers Anonymous | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
meeting I would be judged, when it is the opposite. Everyone is the | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
same. We all have the same problems, so initially I didn't go to the | :30:11. | :30:13. | |
meetings. I relapsed within six month, that is when it got bad, to | :30:14. | :30:20. | |
the end of my time of West Ham. So 30,00 pounds on an average week, how | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
much would you be galling away? It would be gone within two weeks. 30 | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
grand or 60 grand? A month's wages. Gone in two weeks, on the horse, | :30:33. | :30:34. | |
dogs? Cassano, horse, dogs. How were you paying the bills? I | :30:35. | :30:48. | |
wasn't, which is ultimately why I stopped in 2009. I turned up at my | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
house with my now wife, Stephanie, my mum and sister were there and | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
they sat around the table and made me realise how much it was affecting | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
me. So the new? Not to the extent, I told them and they were shocked, to | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
say the least will stop but my mum took over my finances, my dad spoke | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
to the people I owed money to and they said, concentrate on your | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
football. That is what I did, I got play of the year that year at | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
Stoke. Was that to do with the fact that you liberated yourself by | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
telling your family, then helping you? Without a doubt, that is | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
exactly what it was. I could concentrate on my football. I had a | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
great time at Stoke for the next four years. Do you think any part, | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
at the beginning, when maybe gambling was fun, before you became | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
addicted, you were looking for the Bulls, trying to recreate winning a | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
Premier League den, or is that way too simplistic? It is right to a | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
certain extent. When I had the win in the initial years, when I was | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
betting, there was that buzz there, and you try to recreate that. It got | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
to a point where I was numb to it, I was betting for the sake of it, I | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
did not want to admit defeat. As a sports Ukraine to win, you hate | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
losing and it was part of the problem. If you were not paying the | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
bills, were bailiffs knocking at the door? Yes, another horrible trade as | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
a gambler is you become a compulsive liar as well. You have every story | :32:29. | :32:36. | |
under the sun to tell, to get yourself out of situations. I will | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
have the money for you next month, I have money coming in, I campaign | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
next month, so they will give you a bit more time, then you ignore their | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
calls. My financial situation was as bad as it gets, simple as that. I | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
think at one point there were bookies turning up at West Ham's | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
training ground looking for you because you owed them money? Yes, I | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
would go to the doctor that night, Walthamstow, Romford, they knew who | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
I was, I was earning money at the time, so I would bet on credit and | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
say I would give them a check at the end of the night and they were fine | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
with it. If I was losing, I would leave before the last race and they | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
could not get their money, and they would turn up at the training ground | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
the next day. Obviously we had security at the front of the | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
training ground but I would have to go and face them and tell them I | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
would have it for them next week or the week after. I was basically | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
trying to get myself out of situations all the time, and that is | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
what happens as a compulsive gambler. It was a very stressful | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
time, but one I am glad I am out of now. I will ask more about that in a | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
second. If you have spent all of your wages and no one is giving you | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
credit, do you find yourself looking around for loose change? Yes, the | :33:55. | :34:02. | |
prime example, the day before I stopped, my wife now, Stephanie, we | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
were not married at the time but I said I was going to the shop, she | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
knew full well I was going to the bookmakers. I had exhausted all | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
means of any cash to have a better so I looked at the ashtray in my | :34:15. | :34:18. | |
car, there was some loose change there, I had ?5 in my pocket, did | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
not have enough petrol to get home but I would rather use the money to | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
go into the bookmakers and have a bet then fill my car with petrol. My | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
priorities were all wrong and luckily that day when I got home my | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
family were there. You said earlier that it became public that there was | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
a photograph of you coming out of a bookie, so fans would know and fans | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
from opposing teams would know, and presumably they let you know that a | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
new? Oh, yes, probably because I am talking about it so openly, there | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
was a stigma attached to myself with regards the gambling but I am not | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
shy to talk about it, I want to help other people. But there are a large | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
percentage of people ignorant towards it, they don't see it as an | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
illness, they see it as someone being silly, why can't you just | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
stop? I have been haunted lots of times on the football pitch, in | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
restaurants, bars, but it is what it is, it doesn't affect me any more. I | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
don't want people to feel sorry for me in any way, shape or form, it is | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
what it is. Let's talk about addiction, whether gambling, | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
alcohol, drugs, there are people who think you can just stop, you can | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
wake up in the morning and make that choice. Explain to them why it is an | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
illness? It takes open your life. It took over my life, it was all I | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
thought about when I woke up, before I went to sleep, friendships were | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
ruined, friendships with loved ones were ruined. Luckily I have | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
rekindled most of them now. But it is an illness, without a shadow of a | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
doubt, and I was very, very ill with it. Again, like I said, I made my | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
own choices, no one forced me to do what I did, but it was definitely a | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
learning curve and definitely an illness and people who think | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
otherwise are quite ignorant. You told us a little bit about gamblers | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
anonymous, you thought you would be judged but it is not like that. Can | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
you give us an insight into those meetings? Did you say, I am | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
Matthew... I am a compulsive gambler, I have not had a bet since | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
my last meeting, that is what you say when you address the room. You | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
talk about your everyday life, your struggles, if there are any gambling | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
related issues, issues at home, with your friends, etc. It is nice, you | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
walk out of the room and you feel liberated, it is a weight off my | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
shoulders, you feel like your head is clear. It works, simple as that. | :36:49. | :36:55. | |
Can you say it works? My understanding from addiction is | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
that, actually, you are never cured, you have to take each day at | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
a time? Is that right? Oh, yes, what I meant is that going to the | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
meetings helps. It is down to you to self maintained, things like that, | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
it is a constant battle they in, day out, that I know what I have got to | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
lose, I understand the addiction a lot more, thankfully, I understand | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
signs when I could be getting back into old habits. What are those | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
triggers that you need to look out for? Time on my hands. But you have | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
retired! These last six to nine months have not been easy, I will be | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
the first to admit that, but I have an amazing wife, a 14-month-old | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
daughter who I have seen grown-up, which I would not have done if I was | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
playing football, so they have taken plenty of my time. But there are | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
signs, you see yourself in situations from time to time. It is | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
a day-to-day battle, mentally those demons are in your head, I will not | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
lie, but I know I have got a lot to lose and I understand the illness a | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
lot more. A couple of messages, this is from, I did know, somebody on | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
Twitter, great honesty and awareness raising. One tweet says, listening | :38:11. | :38:18. | |
to Matthew Etherington on Victoria Derbyshire, what a player he was and | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
good to hear he is back on track. When you wake up in the morning, is | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
it the first thing you think about, or not now? Not any more, it is | :38:26. | :38:33. | |
usually my daughter crying! It was when I was in the height of the | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
addiction. Now, it is not in my mind as much. Don't get me wrong, it is | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
in my mind from time to time but nowhere near as much, it does not | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
the whole of my day or the thoughts of my day, and there is more to life | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
now, and I lead a normal life which I never thought I would be able to | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
lead. It is a normal, mundane in many respects. Normal is good! How | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
big a problem is gambling within top-class football? It is hard to | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
say, gambling is an illness. You can see in an alcoholic, a drug addict, | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
physically in their appearance they may have problems. With gambling, | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
you hide things deep deep down. And there is the denial aspect? There is | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
the denial, admitting defeat. I have had agents ring me on behalf of | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
players, probably a dozen now, Spain, can you speak to the player, | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
he is in a lot of trouble, his wife is thinking about leaving, he is in | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
financial trouble. I have said, yes, obviously I will not be able to stop | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
him, she has to want to do it himself but if he wants to talk, I | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
will be there. Not one player has called me. What does that tell you? | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
They are not ready to stop, first and foremost it has to come from | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
yourself. They are not ready to stop at this moment in time. Luckily | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
there came a time when I did stop. But with the cash that footballers | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
are in, the time on their hands, it is a recipe for disaster, I | :40:02. | :40:07. | |
suppose. Eric tweets to say, I have been in this situation, too, and it | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
is horrible. I lost ?2000 in two months and I am trying to get | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
better. You would recommend gamblers anonymous? Definitely, speaking to | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
people who can relate to him, like-minded people, you will not get | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
judged in that room in any way, shape or form. People give good | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
advice and it is the only place to go if you want to stop. Do you think | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
sport, football itself, takes the risk of being addicted to gambling | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
from its members, its players, seriously enough? I'm not sure, to | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
be honest. It is like all walks of life, it is already tip. I lost | :40:44. | :40:50. | |
millions of pounds, but as an addicted gambler you spend on | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
gambling what you earn. I think people in football have addiction | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
problems but I think in all walks of life people have addiction problems. | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
I don't think it is rife in football in any way but there are issues with | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
it. Thank you very much for being so candid, we really appreciate you | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
coming on the programme. Next, the family of Mark Duggan, | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
whose shooting by police in Tottenham, sparked riots in Britain | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
in 2011 have won the right to appeal against an inquest decision that he | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
was lawfully killed. Our correspondent is that the Court of | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
Appeal. This is just the first step in the process, I think? | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
That's right, they are in the foothills of this whole process. The | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
inquest jury, which sat at this court last year, came in with a | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
verdict in January 2014 that Mark Duggan had been lawfully killed but | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
they said they did not believe that he had a gun in his hand when he was | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
shot. The police officer who fired the fatal shot to kill Mark Duggan | :41:50. | :42:04. | |
was known only as Tell Mama Tell -- V53. He said he believed Mark Duggan | :42:05. | :42:13. | |
had thrown the gun before he was killed, a weapon was found 20 feet | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
from the shooting. Mark Duggan's family and the lawyers have always | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
said the findings were contradictory, how could the | :42:23. | :42:24. | |
jewellery said he was lawfully killed yet at the same time said | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
they did not believe he had the gun in his hand when he was shot? This | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
will be thrashed out at the Court of Appeal at a gate in the future. | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
Let's bring you a little bit more on the investigation we mentioned | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
earlier in the States after that video emerged apparently showing a | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
police officer, not apparently, you can see it yourself, shoving a | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
police officer throwing a female people across a classroom. This | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
footage was reportedly taken by a pupil in the class at Spring Valley | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
high school in Columbia, South Carolina. It is thought the officer | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
was called after the particular student refused to leave the class. | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
It looks like hubris trains her around the neck before quickly | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
pulling her desk and her backwards towards the floor. Soon after he | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
appears to throw her if you meet is across the classroom. Civil | :43:13. | :43:14. | |
liberties groups have said the actions were not justified. The | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
Sheriff's spokesperson, Curtis Wilson, says they are reviewing the | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
evidence. This student was as to leave the | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
class several times, the principle is there as well, and the officer | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
was called to have the student removed from the location. The | :43:34. | :43:35. | |
student refused and the officer acted as you see on the video. What | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
we saw was just a kid bit of what the video showed. The incident that | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
took place that led up to it and what happened afterwards, all of | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
that will take part in what the Sheriff decides. | :43:52. | :43:53. | |
Any update you will hear on BBC News. | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
Thank you for joining us, we are back tomorrow at 9:15am. Have a good | :43:57. | :43:57. | |
day. | :43:58. | :44:02. |