28/10/2015 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Wednesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

If we have introduced a charges encouraging innocent

fines were people are proven guilty and they are not, that is not

justice. We'll hear one claim that

a rape victim was denied compensation because her offender

couldn't pay his court charge. Plus -

a week since TalkTalk was hacked - customers tell us they've been

warning the company about potential If you're a TalkTalk

customer do get in touch. And -

two police officers tell us how they risked their lives by deliberately

driving their police car head-on into another car driving the wrong

way down a dual carriageway. Hello - welcome to the programme

- we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Throughout the programme we'll bring

you the latest breaking news and developing stories - and, as always,

keen to hear from you. A little later in the programme

we'll hear about concerns that an increasing number of young women

with diabetes are skipping insulin If you've experienced it do get

in touch Your contributions to this programme

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bbc.co.uk/victoria - and you can also subscribe to all

our features on the news app, by going to add topics

and searching "Victoria Derbyshire". We'll start the programme this

morning with further claims that mandatory criminal court charges

are encouraging innocent people A ?150 fine is issued

if someone pleads guilty to a criminal offence - but it can

rise to ?1200 if they deny It's being described as a tax

on justice. It's something we've covered

on this programme before when former magistrate Nigel Allcoat told

us he had resigned from the bench after being suspended for trying to

pay asylum seeker's court fine. I had before me a young person. In

his 20s. In no doubt had got to this country via any means, as we have

seen on the news recently. We don't know the background. But he was

there as a bona fides silence the. -- bona fides asylum seeker. He

cannot work. He has a top up card which is provided to him by the

Government. It is worth ?35 per week. He can spend the proceeds of

this card in certain stores. He did not have the money. But as it

stands, this court charge has to be paid, but he has no wherewithal to

pay. It was a Catch-22 situation. We were getting nowhere. If this isn't

paid he could back to court again and subsequently there is a

possibility that he could go to prison. Therefore, this is a time

when we should not be, well, we have to stop people reoffending. At this

point, he had no wherewithal to pay. Nor was he legally in a

position to pay. It was something which this charge by the Government

I don't think has been properly thought through.

In total it's estimated around 50 magistrates have resigned

Now it's emerged that a sexual assault victim may not have

got compensation from her attacker - because he couldn't afford to pay

Here to explain more is our legal affairs correspondent

Clive Coleman and Ben Summerskill from the Criminal Justice Alliance,

a group that works to improve the criminal justice system.

Also, Richard Monkhouse, the chairman of the Magistrates

Welcome to all of you. Clive, when were these charges brought in, and

why? April. It was thought that people who are guilty should pay

towards the running costs of the criminal court. They have been

pretty controversial from the start. They are not discretionary. They

absolutely have to be imposed. They are not means tested. It does not

depend on your income, they just have to be imposed. They can be

imposed to be paid in instalments. But they are imposed on top of

everything else. On top of any fines, any compensation, any

prosecution costs order. And the victim surcharge, of course, which

also has to be imposed. From the get go there were stories that people,

because they started at ?150 in the Magistrates' Court, but they rise

steeply to ?1000. That is if you plead guilty, of course. It is up to

?1000 if you found guilty in a cruel court. They can go even higher,

sometimes as much as ?1200, in a Supreme Court. Almost 50 magistrates

have resided in relation to the charge because they feel

uncomfortable about it. -- have resigned. Their stories about people

pleading simply because they want to pay the lower version of the charge.

The Government is committed to a review after three years of this

charge, but the magistrates Association would like that to be

much quicker. They would like these charges to be discretionary. So the

magistrate or the judge has the power to say whether or not they are

imposed. Richard Monkhouse, Clyde says there is anecdotal evidence

that these charges are leading to innocent people pleading guilty in

order to get the lesser charge. -- Clive. Has that happened, is it

true? Yes. We know of the magistrates who have refused to

access an equivocal plea when the individual has said, I'm not guilty

but I am pleading guilty. That of course is not a guilty plea. Some

magistrates, we have heard this, have refused to access that. Ben

Summerskill, our solicitors advising defendants to do this? Cases we have

come across have suggested that solicitors are advising what the

circumstances will be if they plead guilty. There was one credible case,

I think, of a guy in Nottinghamshire who got involved in a fracas because

his son was being attacked at a football match. He was charged with

insulting behaviour. On the face of it, even a magistrate acknowledged

he probably would be found not guilty. But he said, if I found

guilty, I will get a ?500 fine, otherwise I will get a ?150 fine,

therefore I will plead guilty. Isn't justice. Why do you say that? --

that is not justice. We have introduced a system where people

don't have the capacity to pay a fine in the first place, as has been

pointed out they are means tested. They are a punishment, but they are

actually payable. If you then lobby a much bigger fine, the Government

set aside ?5 million to provide 200 prison places, I have seen the

document, for people they know will not be able to pay these fines even

if they have only been convicted of a ?1.50 fare evasion. If you find a

situation where people are under that sort of pressure, then that

isn't justice, because they are being pressured in order to plea in

a way which isn't true to what they believe to have happened. It is

worth just reminding ourselves what Chris Grayling said back in April

when he was Justice Secretary. It is the principle of having to pay

towards the cost of you taking up court time. If you have committed a

crime. He said, those who commit crime, should pay their way, and

contribute to the cost of their court cases. Do you accept that

principle? We accept the Government has a right to sort out how the

justice system will be funded. That is a bit disingenuous, though,

because we have situations where in the case of DVLA cases, London

transport cases, where cases are dealt with without the defendant

being there in less than a minute. And the same criminal court charge

is applied. The same charge applies whether you take a minute or six

hours over a case. If it is going to be a genuine effort to recommence

the Court of their time, then there should be some sort of less than

mandatory charge which, given discretion, would allow us to do not

only that but also take into consideration the needs of the

defendant. Ben Summerskill, tell us exactly how the court charges led to

a victim of sexual assault not getting compensation from the

accused? This is a case where the getting compensation from the

impose a ?900 fine on the defendant. It was so obvious that a

compensation It was so obvious that a

recovered that he said there It was so obvious that a

just no point in opposing it. That is because magistrates and judges

are obliged to impose a court charged over and above anything else

specifically without making any allowance. It isn't that they might

not make an allowance, it is specifically without making an

allowance for somebody's ability to pay. I have spoken to the Ministry

of Justice. They have said there are guidelines in place. The charge has

to be imposed. The judge has no discretion. What he should do in

those circumstances is to impose the compensation, to be paid in

instalments, in very small instalments. So it is

instalments, in very small the defendant. I guess

instalments, in very small wasn't any money left in the pot,

I'm not sure... It is perfectly true, there is a

I'm not sure... It is perfectly doing that. But the simple

I'm not sure... It is perfectly is, and this isn't saying that

people who have committed a criminal is, and this isn't saying that

offence, that it doesn't them from committing another, 70 to

80% of people them from committing another, 70 to

chaotic lives. The idea you will have a phased payment over two years

is something that means if have a phased payment over two years

months they've made every single payment and it failed -- and

months they've made every single failed to make a payment at all they

get taken back to court because they are in breach. And actually then, as

I've already indicated, they expose themselves to the possibility of

being imprisoned for nonpayment of the fine will stop -- of the fine.

It is a scheme which was set up to nominee look good, but it is one of

those schemes where civil servants dream things up. If they got into

the real world they dream things up. If they got into

they are not actually practical. We asked the Ministry of Justice for an

interview, asked the Ministry of Justice for an

Nobody was available, but they gave was right that convicted adult

Nobody was available, but they gave offenders should pay towards

Nobody was available, but they gave cost of running court as it reduced

the burden on taxpayers One other thing, I have

speaking to magistrates, and Richard might be able to comment on this

also. It might be able to comment on this

question that there is real concern about this charge. Magistrates are

trying to find a way around it. In a case where they would order the

prosecution cost, if a defendant has been found guilty and pays towards

the prosecution, some magistrates have told me they are not awarding

those costs because they know they have to impose the common law courts

charge. That means the Crown Prosecution Service is offers are

left in a shortfall situation because magistrates are trying, you

know, to find a way to mitigate this charge. -- CPS coffers. Richard will

know better than me about that. When we are awarding financial

impositions we're always told in our guidelines that compensation comes

first. The problem with paying compensation in drips and drugs is

that the victim is receiving it in drips and drabs and that has an

effect on them. -- dribs and drabs. Every time they receive a payment it

is a reminder of the offence against them. We do know that we have

discretion of the Government surcharge. It isn't a victim

surcharge any more. If we do pay on translation we have discretion over

prosecution costs. We have no discretion over the criminal court

judge, which is what makes it so alien to the magistrates. Thank you

all. Coming up -

a week since TalkTalk was hacked - customers tell us they've been

warning the company about potential And -

two police officers tell us how they risked their lives by deliberately

driving their police car head-on into another car driving the wrong

way down a dual carriageway. Canadian investigators say a whale

watching boat that capsized - killing five British people -

may have become unstable because the passengers had crowded

on to one side of the deck. The boat sank near Tofino,

British Columbia, on Sunday. A 27-year-old Australian

man remains missing. Volkswagen has announced big losses

- in its first figures since the scandal over rigged emissions tests

broke last month. In the three months to September, it recorded an

operating loss of three and a half billion euros, which is

?2.5 billion. David Cameron is to challenge claims

by campaigners who want Britain to leave the European Union

and adopt a looser relationship He is travelling to Iceland

for a meeting of northern European Thousands of cases of cancer

in England could be diagnosed That's according to

Cancer Research UK. It's been analysing two years

of data and says it has found an "unacceptable variation" between

different parts of the country. Here's our health correspondent,

Jane Dreaper. Detecting cancer early is vital, it

improves the chances of surviving. Overall, cases are being spotted at

an earlier stage. But Cancer Research UK says there is still room

for improvement in many parts of England. The charity worked at new

figures covering the two years of cancer cases and it says if all

regions had the same rate of early diagnosis is south-west England,

almost 20,000 cancer cases would be found soon. It is complex. In East

Anglia, I'll cancer is picked up quickly but it is one of the worst

regions for detect and skin cancer early -- bowel cancer.

We need to raise public awareness of symptoms and encourage people to see

their GP. GPs need to be supported to refer people quickly and

encouraged if they have concerns to send people for the tests they need.

And we need a diagnostic services, where we get scans and tests, to

have the resources they need to work effectively.

And we all have a part to play. This new campaign encourages us not to

ignore unusual lumps in our bodies. NHS England says it is working with

doctors towards giving all patients cancer test results within four

weeks, by 2020. Let's catch up with all

the sport now. Good morning. We were talking

yesterday about Jose Mourinho and you said, has he lost it? Today, I

am going to say more pressure has been heaped on him, his side lost on

penalties to Stoke in the League Cup. Incredible when they won the

League Cup last season and Diego Costa vest Reicher was substituted

off. -- their striker. He might not make it for the big game against

Liverpool on Saturday. Reports suggested this week if the result is

not good enough against Liverpool, Jose Mourinho could face the sack,

but he remains defiant and he says he will rest easy. Arsenal also out

of the competition after being beaten 3-0 by Sheffield Wednesday, a

leak below them. But not all bad news. Touche gymnasts won their

first ever World Championship team medal, claiming Bronze in Glasgow,

beating the previous best finish of faith by the women in 2011. London

Irish will play Saracens in New York next year, the first ship rugby game

to be finished overseas. I spoke to Chief Executive of Casey and he says

it will be a great exposure to the club. You can hear what he says

about the growth of the sport at ten o'clock. Thank you. Thank you for

your comments on the court charges. On Twitter, it says, imposing

inappropriately large court fees is just another example of the

Conservative ideological move to make poverty a crime. Imagine a

country where misfortune and poverty were considered a crime. You do not

have too, just look around! Hannah says, I have in the victim of two

assaults and I agree the accused should pay towards court costs but

compensation is wrong, no money makes what they subject you to write

and I do not agree with the culture. Penny says, I would like to

highlight this happens all the time, people who are innocent and told by

the police to accept a caution before it gets to court and you are

advised to settle out of court because of the costs and the risks

of being penalised financially by taking a case further. Leslie says,

how is it fair when Fiennes are imposed by magistrates when the

defendant could only" one minute? -- finds. People could be forced into

crime further because of nonpayment, the government cannot be accused of

having common sense! Thank you. This morning - some TalkTalk

customers tell this programme they've been warning the company

about security breaches for months - but the phone and internet provider

hasn't done enough to help them. It's now a week since TalkTalk's

website was hit by a "significant and sustained cyber-attack" - that

could affect all of its four million customers. It's the third data

breach at TalkTalk in recent months. We'll

hear from some of those customers in

just a moment, but first, let's take a look back at the events of the

last week. With four million customers,

TalkTalk is one of the biggest broadband

and telephone providers in the UK. Last week, the company revealed it

suffered a significant The most important thing

for people to do is to keep an eye on their bank accounts,

on their credit cards. If you spot any fraudulent activity,

call your bank, contact Action Fraud, and then to monitor your

credit rating through the year, which is why TalkTalk will be giving

all of our customers a year's free credit monitoring, to make sure they

can rest easy, that their personal It's believed hackers may have been

able to access customer bank account details, sort codes,

names and e-mail addresses. When you sign a contract,

you expect the company to kind of keep that information safe,

so it's obviously scary. There's not really been much

communication, just So just find another provider,

really. A 15-year-old boy was arrested

in connection with the attack TalkTalk says it will only waive

termination fees for customers wanting to end

their contracts if they can prove Shares have fallen nearly

a quarter of their value over the last week, but closed up

around 13% yesterday, following the announcement on restrictions

around cancelling your contract. MPs say an inquiry will be

launched into the cyber attack. Let's talk now to some TalkTalk

customers. Reg Allum is in Bristol this morning

- he thinks he's lost over ?1,000 as a result of the breach.

Brian McEwan is in Aberdeen and Angela Davies is in Chichester,

and with us in the studio, cyber You think, you know that about ?1300

has gone from your bank account at some point in the last week. How did

you discover that had gone and what do you think happened? What happened

last week when this cyber breach came into the media, I checked my

bank account and I found I came into the media, I checked my

account. My bank has now refunded came into the media, I checked my

the money so I cannot be sure it is on -- it is connected but it is a

huge coincidence it happened just before we heard about this breach,

in the media. TalkTalk said investigations so far shown

in the media. TalkTalk said sensitive financial information,

in the media. TalkTalk said credit and debit card numbers, was

protected. And credit and debit card numbers, was

money was stolen from a customer's account, as the direct result of

this cyber attack, as a gesture of goodwill, they would let you leave

the company without charging a termination fee, or what you think

of that? The problem is, there is no way to prove that money was taken

from my account because of the breach of TalkTalk. It is a

difficult issue. My bank cannot tell me, or they will not tell me at the

moment, whether the two are connected. It

moment, whether the two are TalkTalk to act in this way. They

are hanging TalkTalk to act in this way. They

they will not release them from their

they will not release them from clause. Customers will

they will not release them from go if

they will not release them from think they will hope it blows over

so they keep customers and the cyber breach will

so they keep customers and the cyber what did you say and how did they

respond? what did you say and how did they

I have a customer with TalkTalk since 2006. I first became aware of

the scam six months ago when I received a phone call from people

claiming to be from TalkTalk. They sounded very legitimate. Assume a

plea from abroad, call centres. -- resume a plea. They knew my name and

address, date of birth, account number, and said I had it up with my

broadband connection. I had to go onto a computer to get this

resolved, thinking this was legitimate. It was not until they

asked for my account details and my computer became broken that I

realised it was a scam. Since then, I have been getting phone calls five

times a day, this has been happening until two weeks ago. The same people

phoning on time and time again. I tried to block them. What do you

expect TalkTalk to do about it after telling them? After I got the

initial phone call, I spoke to customer services at TalkTalk. I

realised it was a scam. I got very little support from them. They asked

me to follow the online protocol. And try and lock my phone receiving

these calls. But that proved a failure. And I have tried different

things to block them, I have been into it with Crimestoppers. Between

TalkTalk and Crimestoppers, I have had very little support.

Angela, somebody tried to scam you. How seriously you think TalkTalk

took your concerns? They did not seem to take it seriously at all. A

similar situation. I reported a broadband fault to TalkTalk, I came

off the phone at 12 o'clock. Four hours later, I received a call

saying to be from the TalkTalk overseas call centres saying they

knew I had a problem with my broadband, it was my device causing

the problem. It had malware and to fix this problem, they needed me to

turn on my computer. I said I was not able to do that as I had no

battery. They ended a phone call. I rang the two separate people at

TalkTalk, the second was supposedly security information. They did not

ask me any questions, they did not seem to want to know very much about

my experience. I tried to reassure me it was very common. I said, no,

it is not common, it is not a coincidence. It has to be an

internal data breach. Sorry, I want to bring in Stuart.

What will other companies be doing as a result of what has happened,

three breaches in 12 months? It is important to recognise the facts,

they are still hazy. Investigation is still ongoing. Investigations can

take up to 30 days to complete. I do not think other companies are

waiting for the investigation to finish. Absolutely not. Some facts

will appear very soon, I expect that to happen. This is a reminder to

everybody that security, parameter security. Macro what do you mean by

that? We mean basically the security of an organisation's external facing

the work. Organisations face threats from external attacks such as

hacking like we see in the Mini -- the media, and threats from within,

the insider threat. This is a reminder that we need to address

security as a holistic solution. It is not just installing a piece of

software and your security troubles go away. What else to you do? It is

very much a programme and it includes raising awareness and

education. This incident is a good opportunity for businesses elsewhere

to reinstall in their employees security best practice. It is a good

opportunity for them to encourage users to think about their own

security landscape, if you like. Social media. Blocking social media

accounts, making privacy settings secure. Different ways in which

information can be lost both from customers and also businesses.

Thank you. We asked TalkTalk to join us

this morning and talk direct to On the specific claim

from customers that they'e been warning about data breaches

previously, TalkTalk told us: "There have been two other data

breaches that have affected TalkTalk We know that subsequently,

some customers have been targeted by scammers as a result,

pretending to be from TalkTalk and trying to convince customers to

give them access to their computer As well as writing to customers to

warn them, we also have a help page and a dedicated The

Security Hub is full of information of how to protect yourself from all

sorts of online and phone scams." If you are a talk to a customer, do

get in touch. -- TalkTalk customer. Let's talk to two police officers

who risked their lives by deliberately driving

their police car head-on into another car driving the wrong

way down a dual carriageway. PCs Simon Down and

Ed Stock are here - They were nominated for a

Police Bravery Award. Lovely to meet you. Tell us what

happened. It was an ordinary night duty. We were in an unmarked BMW,

which we had been loaned at the time. We were on our way to assist

some colleagues with a collision which had happened on the A3. When

we joined the A3 we were told that a vehicle was travelling in the wrong

way. We tried to keep everybody back. We are watching the images

now. Goodness. It was a Big Bang. The car was travelling towards us at

a very high speed. We were doing 20 to 30. I put the police vehicle into

her part, to make sure she could not come past us. You say that so

calmly. "I put the police vehicle in her path", did it feel like a calm

event at the time? Surprisingly. We had an incident not that long before

that time. The driver of the other car had stopped before we got there.

So it came as no surprise when Simon did as we are trained to do, to

protect members of the public from the oncoming vehicle. On the impact

of the collision, in terms of what speed you were doing, what speed she

was doing, what was the combined speed at that moment of impact?

Anywhere between 80 to 100 mph. I'm not entirely sure what speed was

doing. There were no specific marks to see what speed she was doing. But

looking at CCTV, a good 60 to 70 mph. How come you were not injured?

It helped that we were in a very big car and she was in a very small car.

And Simon's skill, the way he placed our car, so it was a glancing blow

rather than a full head on. Presumably you are trying to get her

out of the car. Had she been drinking? I got her out, she was

heavily intoxicated. She was found guilty of judging and driving and

dangerous driving. Had you not been there, all of the other people

driving down the A3 at that point, it could have been absolutely awful.

We could have easily found somebody travelling home from work, or to

work, at that time, travelling 70 mph, they are not going to expect

that coming towards them. She didn't know where she was. Most people are

grateful for what police officers do on a daily basis. I'm not sure we

are all aware that this kind of thing can happen. You had it on the

A3 and you've also had it on the M23. Do you think people realise? I

don't think so. It is not just an instance like this. These kinds of

stories do get very underreported by the media. Thank you for coming in

and telling a wider audience about it. Thanks very much. Coming up:

Doctors fears for the increasing number of young

women with diabetes who are skipping insulin injections to lose weight.

A Nasa spacecraft is expected to get the best view yet of one of

Saturn's moons later today. The probe will fly just 30 miles above

the moon surface to assess whether it has the conditions to support

life. Let's talk to Nigel Henderson, whose latest book is the Astronomy

Bible, tell us about this particular moon and why this is so exciting.

Let's go right in. It is the search for life elsewhere in the universe.

There is life on Earth. We think there might be life on Mars. But the

amazing thing about these moons going around Saturn, and it

amazing thing about these moons about 16 of them,

amazing thing about these moons It is like an artificial moon, this

satellite, taking pictures of all of the moons going around Saturn. They

have reported plumes. I think they might be eruptions of water on the

surface. And today the probe is going to go right through one of

these plumes with water flying past it. It is going to sample what

these plumes with water flying past coming from inside Saturn. If there

is potentially life on another part of this small solar system, what

does that mean broadly for the rest of the universe? I think if light

started on Earth, well, it has gone and it has started elsewhere

independently, I think it is likely that there is a lot of life

elsewhere. We are looking for water. The search for life in the universe

is to search for water. All life depends on water. We are made up of

70% water. And that has to be liquid water. Everybody thought the moons

going around Saturn were too cold, frozen solid, but something inside

is heating it up. Volcanoes deep inside making an ocean underneath

the icy crust. So is such an in-hospital place has lied, if we

find it, then it means there will be life elsewhere. -- if such an

inhospitable place has life. There are many other planets going around

other stars. If there that many planets, and if there is life on

this planet, there will be life elsewhere, as well. We are not

looking for little green men. Just by the way. I didn't actually think

we would be finding little green men, but thank you for clarifying.

CHUCKLES As you know, we are not looking for

little green men. But on other planets, which have been going

around other sons, which could have been better billions of years, may

be that little green slime has evolved into intelligent aliens. --

other stars. They could be other processes of revolution. --

evolution. This could be really exciting. Do you really believe

this? -- there could be. Are you using the word aliens in the way I

understand aliens? I am absolutely. People who walk and talk, send radio

signals to each other. It happened on earth. One of the most amazing

things about life on earth is it started really early. The bugs were

alive about 4 billion years ago. Then we started turning into fish,

amphibians, dinosaurs, then mammals. If it happened on the

earth, why shouldn't it happen anywhere else? Fair enough. It is

just the word aliens, isn't it? I know! If this shows would you really

want it to show, what will happen after? This is mainly a Nasa

mission. We shouldn't forget that the European Space Agency is leading

the way. The European Space Agency has a probe going to Mars and a

couple of years' time to look for life on Mars. And the Russians are

still in the game. Hopefully somebody, and the Chinese are pretty

active too, they are sending people into space, so between us and

hopefully we can send something which will go and find something.

Imagine something that is orbiting around, looking at it day in day

out, the little robot could go into the edge of those cracks, and see

from two feet away what is spewing out. Cool. Let's hope that happens.

Thank you for being on the programme. Highly respected

astronomer, Nigel, who has written loads of books on that topic.

I cannot see any aliens, but a lovely picture from Anglesey! We

have been as here, the brightest one, Jupiter just above it, and Mars

peeking into the other side. This is fairly rare. The next one like this

will not be until 2021. That is a fantastic photograph.

5:30am, bright moonlight, that is why it is looking so bright, but a

chance of seeing this over the next few days. The planets all orbit the

sun at different rates. Forming an intricate dance, if you like, as

they take their orbits round the sun. Looking at that perspective,

looking across the plain of the solar system, a line-up. We have

three planets lining up looking across to Venus, Mars, and onwards

to Jupiter. Cloud permitting we should hopefully see that over the

next few nights. And the weather?

Not that great, the prospects, but let's get today out of the way. Not

great if you are sitting underneath the rain. Across the eastern parts

today, the West got all of the rain -- the West got all of the dry

weather yesterday, but that is over the East now. Some particularly wet

weather to come through Lincolnshire, East Midlands, Pennine

regions over the next few hours. Lots of water on the roads. Lots of

puddles mixing in with the leaves, so not terribly pleasant. But cloudy

today across northern Scotland with heavy rain over central Scotland to

come. But then we are out into the sunshine, Northern Ireland is

lovely. The fog overnight will continue to clear away, as it will

do over Wales in south-west England. This is where the best of the dry

and sunny weather will be. Some showers popping up across Devon and

Cornwall. Some of those could be on the heavier side of things. You

would be unlucky if you got caught by those. That rain is very slowly

to go away. It is working its way towards Norfolk. We are really stuck

with that rain on the most counties of England, and a good part of

Scotland well into the afternoon. Still mild. In the brightest part of

the South. Not as not as warm as yesterday when we hit 20 degrees. --

15, 16 Celsius in the brightest parts of the South. Planet spotting

prospects, best chance eastern England, North West Scotland, and

maybe Northern Ireland. Just look at where the sun is coming up, and

power or two towards dawn. That band of rain tomorrow working its way to

the east over most areas. It will linger over eastern England.

Brighter skies following. Many places getting sunshine, certainly

by the afternoon, and it is still technically mild. 15, 16 Celsius.

That theme will continue into the weekend. Another weather front

coming through, bringing another pulse of rain. A wet start England

and Wales particularly on Friday. Some showers coming back into

Northern Ireland. If anything, the temperatures are coming up. The

winds from the south bringing in that mild air. That is a theme which

should continue into the weekend. We should lose most of the rain. So a

drier outlook. Staying pretty mild, temperatures around the mid teens at

best. Some patchy fog overnight to look out for, but overall a decent

weekend for getting out and about. I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

welcome to the programme, The young women with diabetes who

are skipping insulin injections to lose weight - we'll hear about

the side effects. Aid agencies' fears

about the coming winter weather for migrants and refugees who are

fleeing from the violence in Syria. And - the two police officers who

risked their lives by deliberately driving their police car head-on

into another car driving the wrong We only really had a split second

when she came into view. I picked the police vehicle into her path.

You say that so calmly. -- I put. Did it feel like it was a calm

event? Surprisingly, yes. There are further claims that

mandatory criminal court charges are encouraging innocent people

to plead guilty to crimes. A ?150 fine is issued

if someone pleads guilty to a criminal offence - but it can rise

to ?1200 if they initially deny Canadian investigators say

a whale watching boat that capsized - killing five British people -

may have become unstable because the passengers had crowded

on to one side of the deck. The boat sank near Tofino in

British Columbia, on Sunday. A 27-year-old Australian

man remains missing. Volkswagen has announced big losses

- in its first figures since it admitted fitting software designed

to cheat diesel emission tests. In the three months to September,

it recorded an operating loss of two and a half billion pounds,

after setting aside cash to cover David Cameron is to challenge claims

by campaigners who want Britain to leave the European Union

and adopt a looser relationship He is travelling to Iceland

for a meeting of northern European Cancer Research UK says there's

unacceptable variation between different parts of England

in how quickly cancer is diagnosed. It says almost 20,000 cases

could be caught earlier if all regions matched

the performance of the best. Comedian Bob Mortimer has cancelled

the first leg of a UK tour with comedy partner

Vic Reeves after undergoing He was due to take to

the stage alongside Reeves in Glasgow next month as part

of a 25th anniversary show. Let's catch up with all

the sport now. Further pressure has been heaped

on Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho, after his side were dumped out

of the League Cup last night, Media reports this week suggest that

Chelsea's poor run of results, which leaves them just five points

off the Premier League relegation My general situation is fantastic. I

have a day off tomorrow. Fantastic family. I can sleep well every

night. I am going to enjoy my day. And Thursday, 1 more day like I had

in the last 15 years of my life. Honest, dedicated.

Do you think the players are not with me? Do you think the players

did not give everything to win the game? That is really sad because, it

did not give everything to win the is not sad for me, I think it is sad

for the players. I think it is a lack of respect to the players. Not

to me. In your lack of respect to the players. Not

everything. It is a bit strange lack of respect to the players. Not

because when months ago, I won so many matches and I was champion of

England and people were many matches and I was champion of

there are things more important many matches and I was champion of

the results, in this It now makes getting a result

against Liverpool on Saturday all Onto an historic night in Glasgow

for Britain's gymnasts,where the women's team won a world team final

medal for the very first time. With GB lying in fourth place, Ellie

Downie's superb vault saw them They'd previously never finished

higher than 5th at a World Championships. Tears

of joy all round there. Now, yesterday, London Irish rugby

club announced they will play their "home" match against Saracens

this season, Earlier, I spoke to

their chief executive Bob Casey It is a challenge. New York is

probably the largest sports city in the world so we feel it is a great

opportunity to go. USA Rugby have invested heavily in and age

grassroots rugby and we feel by working with them, we can grow the

game. It is the fastest-growing team sport in America at the moment. The

team is successful on the world stage. The 15 aside team got to the

World Cup, he did not perform great, but you can see signs it is growing

in the United States. What do Americans get about rugby,

what are they like about the sports? I think they think we are a bit mad

and we do not wear the helmet and putting like the NFL. It is a great

spectator sport and the Premiership is one of the greatest in the world.

They are excited about seeing a Premiership fixture, not a

pre-season friendly. And in their own backyard. Around March, there is

not much competition in terms of the other sports in America. We feel it

is the right time. We believe the London Irish brand is very unique,

is the right time. We believe the we are a home away from home for all

nationalities and we feel we are in a great position to take our brand

globally. That would not be a bad work trip

abroad, I will have the headlines at 10:30 p.m..

We're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Channel until 11 this morning.

" we will bring you the latest news and sports and we will see your

And, of course, you can watch the programme online wherever you

and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

by going to add topics and searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'.

There's growing concern that an increasing number of young women

with diabetes are skipping insulin injections to lose weight.

It's known as diabulimia, but it's not an officially recognised mental

It's most commons in girls with type 1 diabetes,

which is where the body doesn't make its own insulin and can't control

Diabetes UK estimates that up to a third of young women with

In the UK, this works out at around 3,000 teenage girls.

From loss of eyesight to kidney damage and organ failure.

Lucy Travers and Zoe Hepburn have both experienced it.

Jackie Fosbury is a diabetes psychotherapist at an NHS

Lucy, how did you work out that stopping taking diabulimia could

lead to weight loss? It was not so much a fact of working it out, I

just innocently read in a diabetes book that a symptom of diabetes is

weight loss -- stopping taking insulin. I was having issues with

food, my image. I thought, what would happen if I did not take my

insulin? Unfortunately, it spiralled. And what did happen? Like

I said, I gradually began admitting more and more and more. It is a very

slippery slope. So my body became weaker and weaker. From that point,

it is harder to get out. Your RDA, my body was so malnourished -- body.

I was severely ill. So to pull myself out of that downward spiral

was impossible without outside help. Did those close to you and around

you, did they know this was not right? They did, but I do not think

there was enough understanding of what was going on. I think my family

were frustrated, they just thought, please, take your insulin. And in

terms of my diabetes team, they were of the same opinion. Just increased

this dose. But for me, mentally, it was not that straightforward. Can

you explain why? It was to do with my body image as well. Because the

lack of insulin was causing me to lose weight and it is that fear,

like somebody with anorexia who fears food and gaining that weight.

I feared taking my insulin again to look after myself and make myself

healthy, because I feared gaining the weight back that I had lost.

When you realised you were losing your site, tell us about that. It

was about 18 months ago -- 18 months from the beginning. I was struggling

and I was in sixth form at the time. I was struggling to see the

blackboard and I went to the opticians. He referred me and I

ended up at the type clinic at my local hospital. They told me I had

cataracts in both eyes. As a direct result of not taking insulin? Yes.

Did the medical professionals around you know what was going on and what

you were doing and were they recognising it? There was

physically, they knew I was not my insulin. There was no understanding

as to why. It is like with my diabetes specialist, the link could

not be made because with the eating disorder and eating disorder

specialists, they could not see the link with my diabetes. I think I was

telling them and I was saying, I am struggling, I do not know what to

do. It felt like none of them had the power to help me in my recovery.

I understand. Zoe Timmers thank you for being patient. Tell us about you

as a 14-year-old girl and how you felt about your weight at that time.

When I was 14, I put on a lot of weight and I noticed it and school

people noticed it as well. So I knew from being tired rhetoric that I

could lose weight and it would come off quick -- being diabetic. If I

carried on eating but I did not take the insulin, it would not absorb the

carbohydrate. And twice coming your hospitalised because of what you

were doing? -- and twice, you were hospitalised. I ended up collapsing

and I was in a coma for a week. I woke up and I had to learn how to

talk and to walk and stick eat again. When I was 22, and Christmas,

I ended up the same way, but not as bad, still in intensive care. Who

did you turn to for help to acknowledge this was a mental health

condition? I ended up in the eating disorders clinic twice for anorexia.

That did not really help. It is only recently I have been told if I carry

on with the way I am going, I will not be able to have children when I

am older. That has put things in perspective because that is what I

want. Jackie, do you come across, do you speak regularly to women who are

suffering from diabulimia? Very regularly. We have only just started

to use the term. I have been working with people with diabetes as a

psychotherapist for 25 years and women with diabetes, it is a risk

factor for developing eating disorders. But there is an estimate

a third of them do not take insulin to keep their weight down and they

develop diabetes complications. I run a small service in Brighton, it

is closed because we have too many patients referred and we cannot meet

the need. We, cross patients like this all the time and they are

depressed. They have other psychological problems, depression

and anxiety also. Complicated patients to treat. If it was

recognised as a specific condition, what difference would that make in

terms of treating people like Lucy and Zoe? I think it makes a big

difference because the patients like the term because it recognises that

there is a medical problem. That is the diabetes and the complications

and the way in which you can misuse insulin to keep your weight down.

And there is a mental health and emotional condition. And it has to

be treated. I work in diabetes centres across the country. They do

not know what to do with these patients. We need more

psychotherapists in diabetes centres to help with these problems.

Otherwise, the patients get sent out to mental health trusts and they do

not know anything about diabetes. That is interesting. This Twitter

message says, a terrifying number of women skip insulin to control their

weight with potentially disastrous results, and often having an eating

disorder and diabetes means you fall through the cracks of the services.

That is what you are saying. Absolutely correct. We have been

campaigning for years. Now we are commissioning health services and we

are bidding for services, it is very important to have a specific term

because we are asking for financial help for diabulimic patients. And I

think most patients with diabetes like to be treated in the diabetes

centre. They want integrated care. And unless we have that term, that

definition, our patients either will not be treated correctly in the

diabetes centre because the diabetes stuff normally, they are amazing and

know what is going on but I do not have the psychological skills. So

the patient goes to an eating disorder service, a general mental

health team, and they know nothing about diabetes and how the patient

is manipulating their weight. Thank you.

A couple of comments here. Natasha tweets, I did that, I almost

died. I was less than one hour from multi-organ failure, aged 40. It is

not just young girls. Sarah on Twitter says, thank you for

highlighting this. Thank you for coming on the

programme. Get in touch if you have the

relevant experience and we will look at your messages.

Concern from aid agencies about how migrants and refugees, who are

fleeing from the violence in Syria, will cope as winter closes in.

David Cameron's off to Iceland later today to continue pushing his case

Is this a change of tack to? Yes, and it feels as if the

referendum campaign is picking up the pace. We've been used to David

Cameron talking about renegotiating the relationship with the European

Union. This has to happen before the end of 20 -- 2017. He is attacking a

different way. Some people who say that Britain should leave should do

it in the way that Norway has done. Norway is not subject to a lot of

the rules and relegation -- regulations we have to. But David

Cameron says they do that for a high price. They don't have voting

rights, for example, not a lot going for them, according to David

Cameron. He's talking about this for them, according to David

a way he hasn't before. It is a sense of his frustrations. The

campaign is already underway. We have the income pay now be out

campaigning going. -- in campaign and the out campaign going on. He's

talking about why come on this front, Britain should stay in the

European Union. You might not know the answer to

this, has he got anywhere on this negotiation? -- he's talking about

why, on this front, Britain should stay in the European Union. It is an

uphill battle. Lots of European leaders are struggling to understand

what he wants beyond the broad principles. In other words,

increasing the power of national parliaments, removing Britain from

the EU commitment to get closer to the union. He wants to restrict

migration to the UK by putting caps on benefits. He's been talking about

these things for a while. But in terms of the specifics, we are in

the dark. A lot of people within Europe are, too. We should get a

better idea next month. Things are picking up. A big EU summit is

happening in December where we expect David Cameron to put a list

of demands on the table for the first time. Number ten have said

they are going to sketch those out in a letter which will be published

next month. We will get a clearer idea in the next few weeks exactly

what they are looking for. This is a negotiation. Number ten's view is

they would be mad to be too public about what they are asking for. At

the same time they are very conscious that many are sceptical

about Europe in the Tory party, in particular in Westminster, who are

waiting to pounce and say that the renegotiation has been a failure.

They are keeping cards close to their chest.

PMQ 's today. Would you expected to be dominated by tax credits?

I would be amazed if it wasn't. Jeremy Corbyn has said please

rethink, George Osborne, if you do we won't jump and down and make

political capital about this. However, I think after the event on

Monday, and the fact this has been thrown back to George Osborne and he

has got to rethink his plan and find a way to help, compensate people who

would be missing out because of the cuts, I would be amazed if it wasn't

mentioned. Thanks very much.

This coming winter could be the worst yet for migrants and refugees

who are fleeing from the violence in Syria - that's according to aid

This year, an unprecedented number of refugees fled to Europe to escape

the fighting, but the cold weather could be

That's because refugees will be at risk, not just on their journey

through Eastern Europe, but also, in the vast refugee camps in the

likes of Turkey and Jordan, where temperatures are already falling.

As we head into November, the temperatures have already started

The number of refugees being housed in countries like Lebanon and Turkey

And here are the average minimum temperatures for November.

It's eight degrees in Jordan but come January, that goes down,

We can talk to a volunteer who has been helping out in Greece. Welcome

to the programme. What are the conditions like for the people you

have been helping? Extremely difficult. It has been an eye-opener

for me, having been on the ground for two weeks and witnessed the

scale of suffering of the people. It is horrendous, the situation. There

is no... What is the word, there is no control, no organisation that is

handling the situation on the ground. It takes small charities,

like ourselves, who are doing most of the work on the ground. The big

charities are not visible. The biggest one I saw over there was

save the children, other than that there were not any large

organisations visible. -- Save The Children. What are the conditions

like us to Mark one example, I saw women giving birth on the ground. --

what are the conditions? The camp is like a prison. You will find all

sorts of situations. Dirt, filth, there is no proper sanitation, no

toilets. If there are toilets they are extremely filthy, overflowing,

and people are defecating and you relating on the ground in the camp.

They have no other area to go to. It is not in a localised residential

area, this camp is in the middle of a forest. It is very difficult to

get to. Initially when the refugees come they land on the coast. I have

been to the coast. Most of the people come at night. These people

have been forced into boats, given fake life jackets. What do you mean

fake? We have life jackets, everybody is used to seeing them on

boats and ships. When they come from the Turkish side they are forced at

gunpoint into these boats. Money is taken off them. They are forced into

the boat and told to put these life jackets on. These life jackets are

filled with foam. They are not proper ones. If somebody was to fall

into the water, you could imagine, like a sponge, the phone absorbs the

water and it becomes heavy and drags the person underneath. Nobody has an

idea that they are fake. When you say they are forced on, they have

travelled to the coast to get onto those boats. They've paid money. How

are they forced on? These are smugglers. They are not treated with

the most humble of effort. They are forced. They pay their money, told

they will be taken, and they are forced on at gunpoint. You can hear

from the people, they will tell you that they had no choice. Whether the

weather was good or bad, they were forced onto the boats, they were

pushed out, somebody is told how to run the motor, and away they go. If

they survive it is their luck. Is it right that you yourself have plucked

children from the water? Yes indeed. While we were there,

families in panic when the motor is switched off, it is dark and I

cannot see anything. They are afraid. They can hear our voices.

The family 's panic, through their children into the water because the

boat starts going back out again and they think they will get left

behind. They threw their children in the belief that somebody might save

them. In their believe, if they float back into the sea without an

engine they are not going to survive, so they throw their

children into the water. We step is deep as we can. We go as far as we

can before we feel an arm, a lead, whatever you can, and we pull them

out. -- leg. We have pulled children out from the water. For some people

that is preferable to being killed by shrapnel in their hometown in

Syria, is that what they say to you? Basically. They say that the

conflict is not something of their understanding or doing. They are

being bombed, shot at. All sorts of groups fighting in their country.

They have no idea why this is taking place. They want peace and comfort

for their family. They want to lead a normal life. Most people tell you,

if the situation gets better we will return. But for now, we are being

massacred on the ground, and we cannot watch our children and family

members die everyday. They need help. They go to the first place

they find sanctuary. I would like to talk about your motivation. Some

people watching may remember you from the riots back in England in

2011. You lost your son in the riots. You appealed for calm after

the death of your son. We are just going to play a clip of that, if we

may, right now. Step forward if you want to lose your children.

Otherwise, calm down, and go home. How has that lead to you

volunteering and helping people in parts of Greece right now? That was

a small clip. If you look at the whole clip, look at the people

around me, I was given a tremendous amount of support by my community.

And the people of this country. They were putting their arms around me

and supporting me. That support was phenomenal. I look at these people

today, it is a humanitarian cause, and all they are asking for is a bit

of support. And little bits of humanity. What I got I am trying to

give back to those people. Thank you for talking to us this morning.

Bob Mortimer has cancelled the first leg of a UK tour with

Vic Reeves after having a triple heart bypass operation.

Let's speak to our Entertainment Correspondent, Colin Paterson.

Tell us more. This is a big shock story which

broke overnight. Bob Mortimer announcing he had triple bypass

heart surgery. This is such a shock because Reeves and Mortimer are

about to embark on their first tour in 20 years. The warm up gig was

supposed to be in whole, and then it would continue in Glasgow. -- in

Hull. But all of the gigs before Christmas have been cancelled

because of the news. Presumably he had some kind of

warning about this operation? They had been doing warm up nights.

The show was going to be a greatest hits show. 25 years since they

The show was going to be a greatest their first show, when Big Night Out

was on TV. They were going to do their favourite characters. It was

going to be a real celebration of their whole career. Something they

were both looking forward to enormously. The Reeves has -- Vic

Reeves has spoken this morning, said his thanks to the surgeon, and he

has said that Bob Mortimer is fixed! CHUCKLES

Will people get their money back, will it be rescheduled?

The PR has said that people who have tickets to these shows will get a

refund. There are no plans to reschedule. You will have to ask for

the refund. But the real hope is that Bob Mortimer is well enough in

January when the second leg of the tour is going to start in Leeds on

the 30th of January. We hope that he will be well enough to start the

tour, with the second half of the tour taking place. If you have

tickets for before Christmas, ask for your money back, if you have

tickets for the New Year, hold onto them because there is a good chance

you will see Bob Mortimer shouting at a man with a stick!

Thanks very much. Bob Mortimer, get well soon. The main news this

There are further claims that mandatory criminal court charges

are encouraging innocent people to plead guilty to crimes.

A ?150 charge is issued if someone pleads guilty to

a criminal offence, but it can rise to ?1,200 if they initially deny

Ben Summerskill from the Criminal Justice Alliance has said it is not

worth the risk for some people. If you are in a situation where people

are under that sort of pressure, then it isn't justice because they

are being pressured in order to plead in a way that isn't actually

true to what they believe to have happened.

Canadian investigators have given their first explanation

of why a whale-watching tour boat capsized off the coast of Vancouver

They say that the boat was unstable because most of the passengers were

standing on the same side when a wave hit the vessel.

Officials say many more people would have died had it not been for

Here's our correspondent, James Cook.

The Leviathan II is still partially submerged, but it has now been moved

nearer the shore as investigators piece together what happened.

They have been speaking to survivors who have given their accounts.

of how most passengers were on one side of the upper deck

when the boat was swamped by a wave from the other side.

The sea conditions were such that a wave approached the vessel

We know the vessel broached and then capsized.

We're also able to confirm that one life raft deployed.

The survivors managed to fire two hand flares and a rocket, sending

We got there within not even ten minutes, and we found all

There was at least three or four boats ahead of us picking up the

The five British people who drowned have been identified as 76-year-old

Jack Slater, who was living in Toronto, 29-year-old Katie Taylor,

based in Whistler, Nigel Hooker, 63, from Southampton, David Thomas, 50,

and his 18-year-old son Stephen, both from Wiltshire.

The search for the body of an Australian man has been continuing.

Some survivors remain here in Tofino,

where they have been interviewed by investigators. Relatives

of those who died have also arrived, and this tiny community is

Volkswagen has announced big losses, in its first figures since it

admitted fitting software designed to cheat diesel emission tests.

In the three months to September, it recorded an operating loss

of ?2.5 billion, after setting aside cash to cover

David Cameron is to challenge claims by campaigners who want Britain to

leave the European Union and adopt a looser relationship

He is travelling to Iceland for a meeting of northern European

Cancer Research UK says there's unacceptable variation

between different parts of England in how quickly cancer is diagnosed.

It says almost twenty thousand cases could be caught earlier

if all regions matched the performance of the best.

Comedian Bob Mortimer has cancelled the first leg

of a UK tour with comedy partner Vic Reeves after undergoing

He was due to take to the stage alongside Reeves

in Glasgow next month as part of a 25th anniversary show.

Vic Reeves announced that up is fixed!

Let's catch up with all the sport now.

The pressure is increasing on Chelsea manager Jose Mourinho,

This time knocked out of the League Cup by Stoke.

A bad night for Arsenal too, thrashed 3-0 by Sheffield Wednesday,

Injuries to Theo Walcott and Alex Oxlade Chamberlain rubbed salt

into Arsene Wenger's wounds. Britain's gymnasts will be hoping

that last night's women's team bronze can spur them

Ellie Downie's vault helped them win their first ever medal at the

Britain's Richard Whitehead smashed his own T42 200m world

record to reach the World Championship final in Doha.

Whitehead crossed the line in 24.10 seconds, beating the previous record

The Chief Executive of London Irish Rugby Club, Bob Casey,

is optimistic about growing the sport in America, following the

announcement that the club will play Saracens in New York next season.

It's the first time a Premiership game has been played overseas.

And rugby is the fastest growing team sport in the US.

That is all the sport for this morning. Thank you.

Hundreds of people are due to gather outside Parliament support of a

Royal Marine convicted of murdering an Afghan insurgent. The rally has

been set up by supporters of Sergeant Alexander Blackman, who was

given a life sentence in 2013 after being convicted of murdering

the wounded Afghan captive in Helmand province four years ago.

He argued that he thought the man he shot was already dead.

Jonathan Beale has been looking at the case.

The report contains strong language. A proud Royal Marine who had done

several tours of Iraq and Afghanistan and once had a promising

future. But it went wrong here in Helmand

Province in 2011. A tour in which his unit experienced fierce combat

from a brutal enemy, in which he had become infamous as Marine are, to

protect his identity. He is a man who pulled the trigger -- the

trigger on a wounded Taliban fighter who had just become his prisoner.

Filmed from a camera fitted to the helmet of comrades and eventually

discovered by the police. The video has been played in court

but only these stills have been released to the public. Along with

the audio in which first Marine a's troll discussed what to do with the

insurgent. -- troll.

Then hidden from the view of the British Army helicopter, and a

surveillance balloon, Marine A decides to take matters into his own

hands. Alexander Blackman shoots the already injured insurgent who

moments earlier could be heard struggling for breath.

At his court-martial, Marine A described it as a moment of madness.

He claimed the insurgent was already dead. But a panel of military he is

convicted him of murder. On appeal, that conviction was upheld, although

his sentence was reduced. But his wife has led a campaign, now backed

by the Daily Mail, to have him released. They say he is not a

criminal, but a Casualty of war. Is your husband a murderer?

Absolutely not. No way, no shape, no form. Just categorically no.

Supporters of Al Blackman have raised nearly ?1 million to

challenge the conviction, they argue he should never have been convicted

of murder, it was manslaughter at worst. But for now, he remains

behind bars, still guilty -- still guilty of murdering a Taliban

prisoner. Chris Terrill is a journalist

and filmmaker, who was embedded with Sgt Blackman's

unit when the killing took place. The show of support today, who'd you

want to take notice of that? At Parliament today. I am not myself

a flag-waving campaigner, I am a journalist observing this taking

place. I think the organisers of the campaign wants to reach out to the

public. But also, Parliament. And the hope is that the new defence

team is keen that the criminal case -- the criminal cases review Ward

looks at this again on an appeal. They're already has been one appeal.

-- that already has. There was an appeal in the Royal Courts of

Justice and the original ten year sentence was reduced to eight years.

There has been a feeling there should you more weight given to

mitigation. And there is a difficulty in applying peace time

judgment to actions of people in war. There is a very real feeling

and I have sympathy with this, that the murder verdict should be

considered, we considered as manslaughter. You are embedded with

his unit, what was it like at the time and the conditions and

potential pressure on those in his unit? Yes, it is difficult for

anybody who has not been on the front line, especially this part of

Helmand reverence to understand what it is like for these men. This was

in the North, one of the most war-ravaged places in Afghanistan in

2011. It was referred to as the most dangerous square mile in the world.

It was extraordinary. The daily temperature was about 55 degrees.

The men were on patrol twice a day, 5 hours at a time. With heavy

equipment. As well as the temperature. That itself is very

debilitating. Also, the place was riddled with insurgents and IED is.

Randomly placed. They called it Afghan roulette, you never quite

knew if your next step would be your last. That will tell on anybody's

psychology. I do not care if you are a man on the street or an elite

soldier like a Royal Marine. I always said the Royal Marines and

many of our front-line troops, they are just ordinary people doing

extraordinary things. The nature of front-line warfare is very

mind-bending. I felt that myself. Ordinary people doing extraordinary

things, you say, ordinary people who have been trained for many months,

if not years, to cope in such conditions and to do a job

nationally. Yes, and let's be clear about this,

99.9% of the troops did do that. In this particular case, Sgt Blackman

overstepped the mark and he was the first to admit he did wrong. He is

ashamed of what he did. I am not sure why he did it. I have visited

him in prison and we still talk about it. He looks back at the Al

Blackman that he was on the front line, a different man to the Al

Blackman before he went out to walk into the Al Blackman that is now

sitting in jail. That is the point. We cannot second-guess war. It does

things to you and you have to make split-second decisions under

enormous pressure and sometimes, you get it wrong. It is the same in

sport. We have just seen the Rugby World Cup. Situations where people

have overstepped the mark and the rules of engagement. The stakes are

a lot of in battle but still we have rules of engagement which are

difficult to follow. Yes. I think people watching would understand

that. However, we do have audio that was released. Of history, we were

not there and we take into account what you have said about the

split-second decision and the conditions and the heat and the

trauma of thinking at any moment, somebody wants to kill you. But Al

Blackman said, anybody want to do first aid on this idiot? His

colleague says, I will put one in his head, if you want. Does that not

suggest they thought this man was alive was, when they first got to

the man, there was clear evidence he was alive and Marine A knew he was

alive and he wanted to keep him alive. He could have been an

informant. There was a IEDs factory nearby and they wanted information,

it suited everybody to keep him alive. Again, what Al Blackman has

said to me, he genuinely thought the man had died subsequently. And that

when he shot him, he was not really dead. Do you hold out hope he will

be released? Hand on heart, I do not believe this campaign, as amazing as

it is, it is a very spontaneous outpouring of emotion from a lot of

people, public and military. I do not think he will be released. Think

perhaps the best people and hope for is a reduction of the sentence

further. And that perhaps the original murder verdict could be

changed to manslaughter. That is totally depends on whether the case

goes to the Commission. Thank you very much. Chris was

embedded with Al Blackman's unit. Thank you for your comments. We do

get so many comments on Twitter. It is ridiculous, totally ridiculous

that you can send a man to war as a trained killer and prosecute him for

killing in the wrong way. This comments says, war or no war,

Sg Blackman killed the guy in cold blood. Richard says, if Sgt Blackman

had killed the terrorist from a mile away, he would be applauded. Net

result, one dead terrorists, that is fine by me.

Evil -- he is a walk on zero and he say so himself. He is lucky to have

such a short sentence -- war criminal.

He broke the Geneva Convention, he knew what he was doing, it was a

murderous act. If you stand around discussing the

least obvious entry point for killing a prisoner of war, that is

murder. And finally, Alan says, if this

Royal Marines had been an American Marine, they would have given him a

medal. Thank you. Keep those coming.

Volkswagen has announced big losses, in its first figures

since the scandal over rigged emissions tests broke last month.

Our business correspondence? I was nodding to the gallery. Call me

whatever you want! How big are the losses? They it. We were expecting

losses given the scandal. I have everything in dollars, I do

apologise. Volkswagen, their last quarter, they

report profits and losses every quarter. They have lost $3.85

billion. That is a lot in Stirling, even I know that. One of the reasons

is Volkswagen has set aside nearly $7.5 billion to cover the scandal.

-- sterling. They are hoping. They are hoping that will cover the

fines, they are hoping that will cover the cost of the recall and the

fix of the engines, the so-called dodgy software engines, legal

action, as well. There will be a lot from around the world from consumers

who bought books like in. But it is probably nowhere near enough money.

-- who bought Volkswagens. It could be closer to $8 billion -- it could

be closer to $18 billion. The BP crisis cost ?35 billion, if you

remember. The cost of Volkswagen could dwarf that figure. How have

they come back? They have a strong balance sheet. The share price in

Frankfurt is actually up. People think they are now dealing with it

and getting to grips with it. Spot on. Investors happy so far. Those

numbers could highlight the fact that its core balance sheet is

pretty strong. On the one hand it shows the strength, on the other

hand we are starting to see the early indications of what the costs

will be over this particular scandal. Their biggest mission will

be to rebuild the trust which has been lost. Volkswagen Will still

sell. They sold 10.1 million vehicles last year. They think they

will do that again this year. We shall see. Thanks very much. The

coming winter could be the worst yet for migrants and refugees fleeing

from the violence in Syria. Here is a reminder of how this crisis has

been unfolding. Another highways pushed the boat

over. I tried to save my wife and children. I couldn't. One by one

they died. -- hi wave. Let's talk to Lily Caprani, Deputy

Executive Director for Unicef UK, who got back from the Zaatari camp

in Jordan just over 48 hours ago. Could you describe the camp. It is

vast, isn't it? It is. It is so big. It is in the middle of the desert. A

remote location. You walk in and suddenly it hits you, thousands and

thousands of people trying to live their lives in incredibly difficult

circumstances. There are now 80,000 there. Many are very small children.

Little children who do not know any different. And teenagers who have

lived through an incredibly traumatic time and needing a lot of

support. The conditions in the camp at the moment? It is a dusty desert.

It is dirty. A lot of work goes into making sure things are clean, making

sure people have clean water, health care, and food. All the basics

provided, which is what some charities are doing. But you cannot

protect everybody from the elements. When we were there we got trapped in

a sandstorm. We could hide from When we were there we got trapped in

But when we went into peoples When we were there we got trapped in

and they are just open containers, really thought they were totally

exposed. When winter comes there isn't anywhere to hide from

you know. We were saying, it could you know. We were saying, it could

get close to zero by January. I you know. We were saying, it could

would -- I was talking to some people, and they say it is not

unusual for it to get as low as minus five Celsius. But they think

it will get even colder this year. With Syrians fleeing, crossing over

into Europe, they are facing a really dangerous

into Europe, they are facing a Some people are saying they should

stop fleeing to those camps, they should stay in their homes, even

though it may be dangerous, what do you say? Most of the refugees have

been there for nearly four years. This conflict has been raging for

nearly five years. They have left because somebody close to them has

been shot in front of them, died in a bomb blast. There really is no

option. As a parent, you only fully integrated as a parent, you only

fully integrate desert no other option if you want to keep your

child safe. What you want see happen? The UK Government has been

very generous with its aid. happen? The UK Government has been

should be credited with that. We happen? The UK Government has been

ploughing in as much support as happen? The UK Government has been

possible. The UN appeal is happen? The UK Government has been

the money we happen? The UK Government has been

needs. We still need more support. Everyday we still need to supplying

blankets, food, clothes, sanitary health conditions for children to

stop health conditions for children to

make sure those children get the psychological support they need. We

cannot leave psychological support they need. We

for themselves. They have been through horrific things. Any parent

would understand that those children need to be in school, cared for, and

kept from harm. Thank you for talking to us.

More news here on the whale watching boat which sank off Vancouver

Island. Five British people died, including Kate Taylor. Her family

have just released this statement saying that she was a vibrant,

outgoing, and lovely young woman. She will be very much missed by all

of her family and many friends. We would ask that you respect our

privacy at such a difficult time. People who have

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, or ME, symptoms of Chronic Fatigue

Syndrome, such as joint pain, headaches and memory problems, can

be overcome by living a more active lifestyle and by patients

altering their mind set. In Oxford, we have Professor Michael

Sharpe, author of this research. and in Bristol we're joined by

Sonya Chowdhury, Chief Executive of Action for ME, who help with

the care and support of sufferers. Joining me is Rosie Fletcher who's

had ME for two years, Welcome to all of you. Professor

Sharp, what is it specifically that you believe you have discovered that

improves this condition. -- Professor Sharpe. The recent paper,

published today, is a follow-up of a treatment trial that we published in

2011. The new information is that these rehabilitative type treatments

such as cognitive behavioural therapy, that is not the same as

positive thinking, as reported, these are treatments which help

people explore and increase what they are able to do. We have found

that the benefit of those last two years after the patient has had the

treatment, and there is no evidence that they cause deterioration or

harm. That is the new information. These are not magic cures, they are

treatments. OK, I would like to get a reaction

from the Chief Executive of Charity Action For N E, what do you think?

This report indicated there was no difference to any of the treatment

approaches tried. -- ME. The headlines we have seen this morning

are wildly misleading at best. At worst they are positively insulting

to the 250,000 people in the UK. Why do you say insulting? Because people

are in dire situations. They cannot just get better by thinking

positively and undertaking exercise. That isn't what CBT and graded

exercise therapy are about. Would you like to respond, professor? I am

in complete agreement. We went to great lengths to get an accurate

story out. Unfortunately a couple of newspapers have had misleading

headlines. I agree, they are insulting to kill people. That is an

unfortunate way the media has covered it, not to do with the

research itself. Just be absolutely clear about briefly again what it is

you are saying to people with ME this morning. We are saying if you

undertake CBT, or graded exercise, and that is not positive thinking

and just exercising, this is done with skilled therapists, that on

average you have a benefit of improving how you feel, and being

able to do more. And that benefit will last for a substantial period,

and there is not a risk of harm. It is also true what Sonia says. If you

compare the people who originally had other treatments they seem to do

as well. But the complication is that those people had additional CBT

and graded exercise in the follow-up period. So we cannot really there is

long-term benefits from treatments such as medical care. We can say

that CBT and graded exercise, if they help you the benefits persist.

Is this true that people have done this trial and they have had death

threats? This is a controversial area. All sorts of reasons for the

controversy. Is it true they have had death threats? Some of my

colleagues have reported that. Unpleasant threats. I think that is

in part because people misinterpret what we are saying. Not helped by

the media coverage today. Saying that it isn't a real illness, or

they should think positively, or exercise, again that is not the

report. What do you think, Rosey Fletcher? I agree, the media

coverage is disheartening to read. -- Rosie Fletcher. The open up a

newspaper and it says it is not a chronic illness. It is disheartening

to read things like that. -- you open up. What you think about what

Professor Sharpe is saying? It is useful for some people to have

positive thinking and graded exercise their P. I've done that

therapy. But it is a complicated illness. -- graded exercise therapy.

It isn't something you can just walk off like a big dinner. He was saying

this is not to do with the media coverage. He is very disappointed in

the media coverage, just as we are. Thank you all for coming on the

programme. We appreciate your time. Alan says ME helped by cancelling? I

don't think so. -- counselling. After that hopefully you will

recognise that it is different from what is being reported in the

newspapers. Thank you for your company today,

and for all your messages,