02/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire

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Daily news and current affairs programme. A man tells how he and his siblings were left to fend for themselves after the death of their parents.

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I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.


Abandoned and left to fend for themselves - four siblings who


had to raise themselves after their parents died have been awarded


We meet one of the children who - 30 years on - says it's


Plus, what caused a Russian holiday jet to crash over


And, do dating apps have a responsibility to promote better


We'll hear from him and meet people who say they're


Do you ever think I am spending too much time on these? All the time.


Don't care. Going up to London for a day and you


want to meet up in the evening with someone you can, you can go on the


app and it's easy. It's just quicker. That's kind of why I have


started getting on to Tinder and it's the pace of it, it's instant.


We're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Channel until 11.00am this morning.


Throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest news and sport and


we'll discuss new government plans to speed up the adoption process.


If you've adopted we would love to hear your insight into what


Plus, we'll speak to those who've spent time with Shaker Aamer since


Your contributions to this programme and your expertise


Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.


And, of course, you can watch the programme online wherever you


are - via the BBC News app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria


and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,


by going to add topics and searching "Victoria Derbyshire."


First, a family of four orphaned children


have been awarded ?75,000 in compensation after being effectively


abandoned by their local authority and left to bring themselves up.


Parents James and Elileen Hawkins died in 1983


Their children, aged between 8 and 16,


In an exclusive first broadcast interview Tony Hawkins -


who was eight at the time - says it's a miracle he survived -


as he had to scavenge for food often eating old dog


biscuits or a slice of bread with vinegar and sugar smeared on it.


Liverpool City Council have admitted they didn't provide proper care


Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Tell us, first of


all, what happened to your parents. My parents were, one evening, my


father came home, he had been the out for a drink with friends. My dad


was into the home brew kind of hobby. He came home with a bottle


which he said a friend had give him, said it was vodka, just needed


watered down and they could drink it as vodka. So he and my mum and a


friend did that and they had a drink because it was coming up to their


anniversary and they drank this vodka. The friend had less than


them, I think left shortly afterwards, and it turned out to be


an alcohol that can be used as an engine cleaner, that killed them in


a painful and ex-cruciating way. It left you and your brother and sister


alone. What did the social services? From my recollection there was


limited intervention. We went on a couple of trips in the first few


months which weren't very pleasant experiences. Did they decide that


someone should look after you or your 16-year-old brother should?


From what we know now, just from speaking to James and from what we


knew, James was called to a meeting with the council at 16, he was a


young 16-year-old boy grieving over his parents and he was asked do you


want to look after the children and he obviously said, well, yeah. That


was it. Evident left to do that. There was -- he was left to do that.


There was no court case, there was no procedures followed. And that was


it. We were left there on our own. We will never know the truth because


we don't know, there was no records to say what happened. Right. Give


the audience an insight into what daily life was like as an


eight-year-old, with your 16-year-old brother apparently


looking after you. It went from being a normal family, siblings


arguing and fighting, a warm family environment food on the table, all


sitting around having our tea in the evening, to overnight just becoming


chaotic. James quickly with that responsibility, the pressure for him


became too much. His life went quickly downhill. Clare had learning


disabilities so she struggled. For Stephen and I we were straightaway


put in a position where we had to fend for ourselves, we quickly


realised it was down to us. We were only kids and we would have


conversations like, can you feel that pain in your stomach? I was


like, yeah, it was hunger. What were you eating? There was nothing. The


dog biscuits was, that's all there was in the kitchen so I would nibble


on dog biscuits, if there was bread I would put something like vinegar


or anything else you would normally find in the cupboard and repeatedly


walk into the kitchen and open cupboards knowing there was nothing


there to eat, so there was nothing. James, his life was falling away.


Minimal benefits he was on, we still don't know, if we did get a chance


to get money off James we would buy noodles or something we knew would


last for a few days. Did you go to school? We missed a lot of school.


You can imagine there is no boundaries, no adult figure to get


you up in the morning or push you to go to school, so we were kind of


your own boss really. Just left to get yourself up, to get yourself


dressed, fed, and get to school on time which quickly, if you were


hungry, or we were really hungry, we would just stay in bed because it


was easier to stay asleep and pull the blankets over your head and try


to get by until you would get something to eat and enable to you


go to school. Is it true you and your nine-year-old brother used to


share a uniform, he would go for a couple of days and he would give the


uniform to you and you would go for a couple of days? That went on


Father a while, especially in the early -- for a while, especially in


the early aftermath of our parents' death, we struggled with all normal


clothes. We would share a lot, basic socks and underwear. Uniform was a


problem. So, yeah, it was very, very difficult. We had to kind of just


get by with each other. Me and Stephen became, we had to be a unit.


It's extraordinary on so many levels. It's almost unbelievable.


Where were relatives, where were teachers saying who is looking after


you, what's happening, why haven't you been to school? This is only the


80s, it's not the 50s. Paternal side of the family, my dad's side weren't


close to my father anyway. I think there was a lot of family problems


on his side, his relationship with his siblings. So they never played a


part. His mother was, must have been in her 80s, she was very old. She


lived a distance away, couldn't travel and had illness, she died


within that year of my father dying. My maternal side, there was a lot of


family issues relating to them, either lived too far away or had


their own real issues that weren't in a position to look after us. But


the responsibility was put on James. I would say in the first few weeks


would people could rally around or try and help then we realised it was


just about us and the help kind of disappeared or just became less, I


think we became very good at not feeling like a - not wanting people


to think we were victims or beggars, we put up a front like we had to


think - we had to stay proud and make people think we were still OK.


I can't look back and say and blame certain people and say why didn't


you help? Because we were kind of became very hard to say we are OK,


because we were in fear of being taken away you see. Right. That was


the bory -- that was the worry, if you said we need some help here, you


thought you might be split up? Absolutely. Speaking to James that


was the responsibility put on his head, which for me is just


diabolical. He was such a young kid and wasn't outgoing strong-minded


kid, he stayed in his room playing records, he would go to school and


he was very bright lad. Ultimately, within 24 hours he said now you are


a father of your siblings. Now you have to look after the finances, you


have to look after the house, the bills. He should never have been put


in that position. Yeah, it was very difficult for James. As an adult,


you did all fend for yourselves and you have gone on to achieve, you got


a scholarship at a good school and so on. But as an adult then you


start asking questions and looking back. Yes. I think for all four of


us we didn't look back, it was too hard to look back. We always tried


to, eggs Stephen and I, look forward. That was that -- especially


Stephen and I, look forward. It actually came about when I met, now


my wife, I met her in 94 and she was a Great Britain athlete and she was


travelling the world but always wanted to go into social work. She


qualified as a social worker but she would always ask questions, that


wasn't right, I am sure that wasn't right. When she got educated in this


field and had a knowledge she started asking the questions to me.


And pushing me. It all started with the headstone. We went to visit the


grave. It was just a very deteriorated wooden cross. She said,


that's unacceptable. She pursued the council to see if there was anything


they could do now to pay for the headstone for us. For your parents.


We have no record of you was the response. She thought, hang on, this


is not right. She applied under the Data Protection Act for all our


files and I believe they had a statutory period where they had to


respond in which they didn't respond within that period. She repeatedly


requested these files and about three months later got one letter


through the door saying we have no record, you didn't belong to this


authority, you belong to a different authority, we knew quite well we


belonged to that authority. Tried to push us in another direction. We


showed evidence that we lived in that property and they came back and


said we have again looked at the files, yes, you did belong to this


authority but we still have no record of you at all. So that was


the driver then, this was a case of, hang on, yeah, we now understand


what happened to us was wrong. We are looking back in the past and


remembering what happened and now we don't exist. That was for me was the


most hurtful thing, that was insult upon insult. It was my wife that was


the driving force behind the whole thing. The council have awarded you


and your siblings ?75,000 compensation. It tells you what?


That tells me, it's a token gesture that they've accepted some failings,


they've accepted something but we don't know what. I just believe it's


in the hope that this will be brushed under the carpet and go away


and that's how I see that. But you want what? I want answers. I can't


go through life now knowing what happened to us and just being


regarded as the kids that never existed. What happened to them


records? Somebody somewhere has answers. There's people who are


probably still alive now who were involved in the organisation or the


authority and worked for the authority that know something. I


appeal to them people to say come forward, give us some closure and


let us have some answers. Also how do we know any lessons have been


learned? How do we know this is not happening now or will happen to


other children in that position? Without them answers or an inquiry


or some Serious Case Review them questions will never be answered. We


have a statement from Liverpool City Council. The city council has


publicly acknowledged that it let these young people down over 30


years ago. Since that time there haven't have been many changes in


social work practice and safeguards in place to prevent this happening


now. Would you like an atoing? It would be a starting -- apology. It


would be a starting point. For me it's too late. We started pursuing


these files years ago, since then they've ignored us, and never even


after the award, they've never directly approached us with an


apology to say we failed, we don't know why. But we hope it never


happens again. There's been nothing. An apology now would be too late. A


couple of comments from people watching this morning. ?75,000 is


rubbish compensation for that family of four children who were abandoned


by the local authority when their parents died. And Peter e-mailed to


say a disgrace that the council think such a small amount of money


is compensation. After this admission once again no names of


those in social services are published or questioned or even


prosecuted for negligence. But for you I think it's just you want to


find out why it happened. I know, I am convinced there is people still


around now who were involved with the case, who know about the case,


who have answers and why they're sitting quiet disturbs me. I would


like them to come forward and talk to us, just explain their side of


the story or if they were involved in any way and say this is what


happened. But at the moment we have absolutely no idea. We have had no


answers at all. Thank you very much.


It is being reported by the press Association that a 5 -year-old girl


has been injured when a car crashed into a tree, killing the driver. She


could have been in the vehicle for some time before she was


discovered, apparently, according to the ambulance service. Emergency


crews found the girl in the back of the car after two cyclists saw it in


a ditch in Staffordshire yesterday morning in foggy conditions. The man


driving the car was dead at the scene but a spokesman for West


Midlands Ambulance Service said, on arrival crews found the car in a


ditch, it had suffered considerable damage and appeared to have been


there for some time. It was very foggy at the time and it was


immediately obvious the man driving had passed away. The girl has been


taken to Royal Stoke University hospital after complaining of paint


in her back and abdomen. A spokesman said this was extremely difficult


for all involved, including the two cyclists who made the discovery. It


is not clear how long the five-year-old girl had been in the


cart before the ambulance crew arrived, but they say at least for


some time before she was discovered. Shaker Aamer's home from Guantanamo


but how is he coping with being We'll be talking to two people


who've seen him since his return. With hundreds of ways


of meeting people online are we We'll talk to


a leading sexual health consultant who thinks apps should do more to


promote safe sex. The bodies of more than


140 people killed in a plane crash in Egypt have been


flown home to St Petersburg. The Metrojet Airbus crashed


on Saturday in the Sinai Peninsula 23 minutes after taking off


from the Egyptian Red Sea resort Russian officials say the plane


broke up at high altitude. Thick fog is causing widespread


travel disruption across the UK Passengers have been left stranded


with many flights cancelled or Foggy conditions are expected to


continue throughout the morning. The Met Office has issued


a severe weather warning Turkey's President, Tayyip Erdogan,


has hailed the strong performance of his ruling


Justice and Development party The party, also known as AKP,


got back its parliamentary majority that it lost in June with


a stronger-than-expected performance Israeli troops have shot


and killed a Palestinian who tried The army says the incident happened


near a checkpoint between the It's the third attempted stabbing


near the checkpoint in recent weeks. Police


investigating a series of sex assaults in Clapham and Brixton in


South London last month are linking The latest incident happened


on Saturday. The woman called for help


and her attacker fled. Two men have been arrested


and bailed during the inquiry. A family of four orphaned children


have been awarded around ?75,000 in compensation after being effectively


abandoned by their local authority and left to bring themselves up. In


an exclusive first broadcast interview, Tony Hawkins, who was


eight at the time, has asked for an apology. Parents James and Eileen


Hawkins died in 1983 from accidental poisoning.


It went from being just a normal family, siblings are and fighting, a


warm family environment, food on the table, sitting around having our tea


every evening, too, overnight, becoming chaotic.


Friends and family will join over 1000 officers for the funeral


He was killed when he was knocked down while


Let's catch up with all the sport now.


Here's Tim. Plenty of sport, as ever. We will


see how England's cricketers are getting on against Pakistan, a solid


start today, they are one - the Rodin. We have some rugby league for


you, England doing better than their union counterparts. Lewis Hamilton


might be world champion but could not win in Mexico last night, his


Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg was the winner and we have got the news


of a new manager at Aston Villa. And, what is happening to Jose


Mourinho? We will show you the test match specialteam's take on his


latest post match interview, or lack of one. That is coming up at 10am.


Next, we're going to talk about the proliferation of dating apps.


There are hundreds of them, from Tinder, which in the space


of a few years now has around 50 million active users worldwide,


to Grindr for gay or bisexual men, to specialist apps for people who


Apps are now the fourth most common way of meeting a partner in the UK.


But a leading sexual health consultant


is calling for dating apps to do more to promote safe sex messages.


Peter Greenhouse claims such sites are fuelling a rise


The latest figures from Public Health England show


a 33% increase in cases of syphilis, with gonorrhoea up 19%.


You should be able to turn over partners a lot quicker with a dating


app. The problem is, the quicker you change partners, the quicker you


will get into action. But also, if you are very keen to change partners


quickly, having a dating app doesn't just tell you that someone is


available, it tells you exactly where they are two within the


nearest few metres, don't you could even be in a bar, put in your


details into the app, swipe this way or that way and find there is


somebody on the other side of the bar who is up for it, so that must


increase the rate at which you change partners or find new


partners, and that in itself has got to increase the risk of sexually


transmitted infections. That was Peter Greenhouse


from the British Association With the growth of dating apps


seemingly showing no sign of abating, Radio One Newsbeat's


Rick Kelsey has been asking, His report,


which lasts around 14 minutes, James uses dating apps like Grindr,


Growlr and Scruff Do you ever think,


"I'm spending too much time on 'Love' is probably a bit strong, it


is more of a love-hate relationship. I like to see who is going on


and what is going on around me but at the same time sometimes it


gets very repetitive. I mean, once you've seen it,


you've seen them all, kind of thing. James might use apps more than most


but the numbers who are swiping, tapping


and messaging their way to add date And whether you are looking


for love, going out with friends or something more casual, dating apps


are a part of everyday life. I think with Happn it's really good


because you get to meet people in the same area as you and you are


more likely to meet someone who has Everyone just wants to have sex


on it! I'm not saying you're


desperate but... Now it is basically the best way to


meet people, it's sort of got rid But is it just


about an easy way to hook up or find someone to have a drink with, or are


we addicted to dating? I wish everyone could just fall


in love and be happy We might spend three hours waiting


for responses or trying to make something happen before realising


at the end of those three hours you feel really


anxious and uncomfortable. But first, this is Andy, he goes on


three or four app dates a week and the fact you're not quite sure what


this person is going to be like. I kind of quite like that nervous


energy you get before the date. What is it about apps that you


like comfort to meeting girls It's just quicker,


that's kind of why I started getting I would back myself


in three or four hours to certainly You said you liked her


and she said she liked you so, Yes,


I think we can send her a message. Keep it short and sweet, that


seems to work better for myself. One line I use is, "Let's skip the


small talk and just go for a drink, I've got some good responses


from that one. We'll find out how Andy gets


on later. She went to


the toilet to freshen up. I saw a rat run across the kitchen,


and I killed it. I said, look, I killed a rat


for you, I'm a big man. I killed a rat


and it happens to be her pet. I once went on a date to the


Natural History Museum. And a small child ran into the


glass of one of the exhibitions. The guy I was on a date with didn't


find it very funny and was very unimpressed that I was


laughing and had to leave the room! For James, they are not


necessarily about a relationship. I prefer the chase to


the actual end product. Where I live is very far out


from the country, it takes an hour How often, of all the apps,


do you actually take it through to Erm... I've never gotten laid from


them. You are on these six,


seven hours a day? Because I do sometimes,


when I do actually get a decent conversation out of someone, when


it's more than just, like, how big is


your...? How much can you take? It's kind of like, come on guys,


can you get a bit more imaginative? Catch my attention,


I'm done with the whole... I should take the hint


because there's a massive hint here, a light flashing going,


why are you using this? You're obviously not enjoying it


but I am at the same time. Do you think there's point


when you might say, actually, I'm app dating too much, even though


I'm not actually going on dates. So a lot of people use dating apps


for meeting new people, going on dates ought to have sex but


I've come to meet someone today who uses them not to have a relationship


but because of the lifestyle that When Clover goes on dates,


she gets given gifts or money. I've had more positive experiences


with the opposite sex on that side than I have with people who I went


to school with or whatever. I've had enough of guys my age


and guys who didn't really have anything to give me, emotionally or


physically or materialistically. So I figured I'll give it a go and I


actually met some pretty decent guys Lingerie, clothes, jewellery, bags,


perfume, stuff like that, I can see you've got a wall


of shoes. She uses


an app called SeekingArrangement that many women use to meet guys who


give them cash or presents. Clover keeps most of what she gets


in the bedroom of her parents' What was it about the setup of an


app like that that interests you? You know, I think most dating sites,


anybody can go on it. They are somewhere


in life where they have got what they want materialistically


and they just want to have fun now. So talk to me


about the benefits of it being on an Because it is with


you wherever you go. Say you're going up to London


for a day, for a trip or something and you want to meet up in


the evening with someone, you can. You can just go on the app


and it easy. Because of what you are getting,


is there an expectation of sex? But they are usually quite forward


with that, You know, because if that's what


they want, that's what they want. If that's not what I want,


that's not what I'm going to do Yeah, but if they're attractive


and whatever If you go on the internet, you can


see what people really think about it, they think it's prostitution or


something but it really isn't at all because you don't have to do


anything you don't want to do. I wish everyone could just fall


in love and be happy They always come up with some stupid


chat up line, like, hey there, So I would rather just someone would


be like, hey, how are you doing? My friend invited me round to his


house one weekend to meet a girl She came over,


she was a really nice girl so I thought I would open Tinder


and see who I could hook up with. So I swiped right for bants


and it was a match! So since we last met, I managed to


sort myself out with a date tonight, I've just got back from work,


popped in the shower, a bit of aftershave on, just walking


down to the pub to meet her now. Confident at the same time


so fingers crossed it goes well. Hopefully she turns up -


you never know, do you! I mean obviously hoping to get


on well with her. Maybe a cheeky kiss at the end


of the night would be good, I'm not going to set


the bar too high. Just take it from there, really,


yeah. Andy is waiting for his date to show


up - it's a familiar routine and he While Andy is happy to share his


dating matches and stories, some Maryam is looking for a husband


and uses an app called MusMatch. At the end of the day, there's no


point in going on other apps because, you know, obviously I have


to marry a Muslim guy and I don't You're still worried about your


family finding out you're on an app? My sisters know because they're


quite laid back and quite modern, but if my dad realised I was on it,


he would be, like, "What the hell?!" I couldn't point blank sit down


and say, "Dad, I met my... I don't know, 'the one',


on a dating app." I would have to make


a story up like, yeah, I met him through a friend of a


friend, you know, like, old school. Why do you think it is that Muslim


parents are more afraid, if you like, of their daughters or sons


being on an app than other people? I think it's society,


what are people going to think? And I think, Islamically as well,


if you luck at religion, it says you shouldn't really be interacting


with a male person because that's when adultery comes in


and one thing leads after another. Maryam,


do you think that a lot of your I don't know, for some reason it's,


like, embarrassing. I'm like literally like, it's not


like you're on Tinder or anything. But I've heard a lot about Tinder,


that it's going to just pick up girls and it's just, like,


you know... It's not used for


like the right reasons. I wouldn't put myself on that,


obviously not. But MusMatch kind


of attracted me because I thought it is a Muslim website,


you will get Muslim guys on there. Muslim people with good values,


people that are serious But then again,


you don't know their intentions. So I met this girl for a date


in Plymouth, A really nice Range Rover came


shooting by and I said, So I met this girl through an app


in New York. And everything was going fine,


super, she was amazing. We got chased by a really crazy man


and the night ended there So this place might look


like a typical Soho barber's but it's actually where people who


think they have a problem with The clinic helps hundreds


of people each year. We try to make it look


as little like a traditional NHS Apps play a crucial role


in the lives of young men in 2015. And sometimes they


become compulsive. You get sexual affirmations that


feel-good when you click this. Some people find themselves


fascinated by waiting for So what type


of problems have you seen people come into Dean Street and say,


listen, I need help with this? They realise they are not enjoying


their sex lives, it causes anxiety, or they might spend three hours


waiting for responses or trying to make something happen and realising


at the end of those three hours they are feeling really anxious and


uncomfortable and that's not using We want to support them to make this


a functional tool, not a compulsive Back at the pub and the good news


is that Andy's date has turned up. He will come in


and he's always early, he comes in and he says to me, all right, this


is the girl I'm seeing tonight. Then she'll arrive and he'll buy her


a drink and I'll give him a bit of a Wink, she's all right,


or she's not so good. And then about 20 minutes later,


come for a second drink and I'll say, OK, give me a feel, how's it


going? So throughout


the night I will walk around and if he is successful or not, just


before he leaves, he'll give me the thumbs up and the wink and the wave


and I know it's on for the night. Very happy, really nice girl,


got along well, definitely going to be a second date, I've already


sorted it for next week. Yes, looking forward to


seeing her again, sure. You two looked pretty


content outside? Yeah, I mean,


I did get my cheeky kiss! So again, another successful Tinder


date for me. I think I'm going to stick


at Tinder, Traditional dating is kind


of a thing of the past. Do you think you will really


find love on a dating app? Who knows, only time will tell, some


of my friends have, fingers crossed! Later in the programme we'll be


speaking to some people who use dating apps as well as others who


have looked into the links between And if you want to watch or share


the film you can find it A couple of comments coming in, that


guy needs to drop that app. It removes the struggle of seeing who


likes you. Another on Twitter, these dating apps are scary, I can imagine


people getting into situations they're not comfortable with easily.


Another on Twitter says seeing this makes me dmrad I am older than them


and was single pre-app. Things seem to have to be instant now.


Let's bring you more on that story we mentioned, a five-year-old girl


may have been left for sometime in a crashed car alongside the dead


driver. Our reporter is here. What else do you know at this stage?


Well, emergency crews found the girl in the back of the car in a ditch in


Staffordshire around 9. 30am on Sunday morning after being alerted


by two cyclists. The man driving the car, the black Ford Fiesta had been


there for sometime they believe. The West Midlands ambulance service had


said that it was very foggy at the time those conditions very much like


today, with the fog that was blanketing. The driver is believed


to be 25 years old and a local man. We don't know his name yet and more


importantly we don't know how he was related to the five-year-old, the


passenger. Staffordshire Police have appealed for witnesses to the crash


but at the moment they're trying to establish exactly what happened and


what time this happened because as you say, the five-year-old girl was


found sometime after this incident happened. Thank you very much.


The bodies of more than 140 people who were killed when


a Russian plane crashed in Egypt have been flown to St Petersburg.


The Airbus A-321 broke up in mid-air before it came down


in the Sinai Peninsula on Saturday, according to the head of


An investigation into the cause is under way.


In the last hour half at a news conference in Moscow, Metrojet


airlines has said it was impossible for the plane to break up in the air


because of a technical or pilot fault. They've also said the crew


didn't make contact with the ground about problems with the plane during


the flight. Julian Bray is an aviation analyst


and joins us from Peterborough. He has been monitoring the press


conference. What else has been said? Well, it's very interesting, isn't


it? It started off as a very dull corporate press conference and it


sounded to be a justification of what was happening. Then as you got


into it, it suddenly became quite exciting in terms of media content


because they said something went on out of our control, not normal


break-up, there is an outside force. At this point Russian television who


had been streaming the conference live suddenly went black and then


the conference carried on, the tail apparently was repaired twice. Now


that's not unusual, because these things do happen. They detect cracks


or whatever so they replace the whole tail section. But it's been


replaced twice. It is a leased aircraft, leased from an Irish


leasing company. But technically they were giving the aircraft a


clean bill of health. But they are suggesting there are dark forces out


there and things have happened that are outside their control.


Worryingly, they say there were no tick nickical reports or


conversations with the aircraft -- technical, so this is cutting to a


catastrophic event that cut systems, the smart money is on a device


placed on board but that's pure speculation at the moment we will


have to wait for the black boxes to be decoded. Right. You would take


what they've said from that press conference, outside force being the


key phrase, to lead you to believe that there was potentially a bomb on


board? We can't rule anything out. Well, we can, we can rule out the


fact that it wasn't a missile because you need a big missile to


reach that plane and the insurgents locally have shoulder pads, shoulder


mounted missiles up to about 14,000 feet, this was flying much higher.


So we are confident that didn't happen. But everything else is still


there for examination. But the key thing is we want a very factual


report coming out of the examination of the black boxes because you have


two, you have the voice black box and the data black box. The voice


will give you two hours of material and the data will give you a good 24


hours' worth. You will be able to piece together exactly what did


happen to that aircraft. Right. How will it be able to piece together?


If it was a bomb how will the voice black box and data black box help?


Well, these units are designed to withstand extreme trauma, I will put


it that way. You will find that there is a part on the right part of


the unit in which are data discs and these are like discs that record


everything. Like a stack of CDs, if you like. All the data is recorded


in there in real-time while the aircraft is still operating.


Obviously as soon as it crashes or it stops it just stops operating.


Then people recover it, they're taken to a laboratory who have


certain diagnostic tools and they will take the data and reconstruct


exactly what happens, on the flight deck you will hear all the pilot


conversations, co-pilot conversations, any communication


with the ground, and it's all on a timeline. We will find out once and


for all whether any conversations did take place. Also you will be


able to gauge exactly what happened in the cabin areas and other


operational areas because every time somebody presses a switch or opens a


relay that will actually be recorded on the data stack. Understood. Thank


you very much. Lots of you getting in touch about


the interview at the beginning of the programme about a family of four


orphaned siblings who have been awarded ?75,000 from their local


authority, Liverpool, after they were effectively left to fend for


themselves growing up almost 30 years ago. Someone on Twitter says


heartbreaking but not unique. We should stop trusting corrupt social


services. Thank goodness the kids triumphed. John tweets, I thought I


had it hard, what an as stonishing story. Someone needs to answer for


it. Another on Twitter says I don't


think ?75,000 in compensation is nearly enough. Another says what a


story, wow. Tim texts to say, the story is the most outrageous thing I


have ever heard. Thank you. You know how to get in touch. You can e-mail


or message me on Twitter. And on Facebook, as well. Time for the


latest weather. Fog really is an issue for lots of


people today. It is. A bad issue. At the weekend


we saw problems with it too. It's probably atmospheric for Hallowe'en.


But look at here at Heathrow and Manchester, we have delays with


flights. It's mayhem on roads, as well. It


really is dense. It's like thick pea soup as it's often known as.


Low tufrp tures and the sun is weak -- temperatures.


We had a breeze out there, we wouldn't see problems like this with


almost zero visibility in some places. It has been bad. Yesterday,


it was bad. But also we saw records being broken. Where it wasn't foggy


it was sunny and very warm. The satellite picture behind me, this


was yesterday's satellite. You can see where the fog was, showing up


clearly here. If I run it through the course of the day it started to


break up nicely, it lingered in places where we had very chilly


conditions, but in western Wales, no wind and lots of sunshine and 22C


and that actually is a November record for the time of year. If I


click down, you can see here it was in Wales that saw this, breaking an


old record in 1946 which was also set in North Wales. The average is


12 so this is almost summer-like. It was a big contrast to 9C in the fog.


How long will the fog stick around for? The next few days, but then we


pick up more of a breeze. Things will improve. This is the travel


board that I have now for the weather, further disruption likely


to the airports. That fog isn't going anywhere fast.


It is breaking up across parts of Wales and the sot west of England


and parts of northern England and the northern half of Scotland doing


well at the moment. That fog should get nibbled away from the edges


through the course of the morning, into the afternoon, lingering on


across central and eastern parts of York, down towards the south-east


Midlands. Where it will remain chilly, temperatures just into


dibble figures. Some sunshine across the south-east.


-- double. We could make 20 again or even higher in one or two locations.


We will have to keep tuned to the weather to see with the


temperatures. Northern areas the fog will linger on through central and


southern Scotland. Northern Scotland doing well into the afternoon. This


evening and overnight that fog makes a return to many areas. You will


notice more of a breeze picking up across the far south-west as low


pressure begins here. It should be fog-free here: High pressure over


the continent and barely any wind, it's been the main driving fact


Forrest this fog. Heavy rain in Spain and Portugal will move north


during the first part of Tuesday. Here quite wet through the day and


breezy. Fog-free here. Showers getting to the south-east and the


northern half of the country similar to how we have seen yesterday and


today. Some fog, some sunshine and a mild day to come. That mild theme


continues for the rest of this week. We start off dry with that fog


problem but then the fog begins to move as it becomes unsettled and


that's because we pick up areas of low pressure and it will turn


windier and wetter to the latter part of the week.


Hello, it's Monday, it's 10am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.


Welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.


How can the adoption process be sped up? Councils will be challenged to


double the places of new families. Since 2011 we have seen a 72%


increase in the number of children adopted but in the last two years we


have seen a fall away of about half the number of children now being put


forward to be adopted and part of that is to do with court judgments


which have been misinterpreted by councils and others, but also we


need to try to bear down on the delay that is still taking place


when trying to match children. We will speak to parents who have been


through the process about the changes they would like to see,


and, as always, get in touch with your experiences.


Shaker Aamer's home from Guantanamo Bay - but how is he


We'll be talking to two people who've met him since his return.


He does look a lot more than 14 years older than those pictures and


I am sure that is confluence of his detention. He does look older but


what was really striking is that same smile that you see in the


pictures is absolutely there, and the warmth of his personality


absolutely beams through. The determination, I think that is


exemplified by what he did on the flight on the way back.


And with hundreds of ways of meeting people online, I'll we becoming


addicted to dating apps? A leading sexual health


consultant tells us they should The bodies


of more than 140 people killed in a plane crash in Egypt have been


flown home to St Petersburg. The Metrojet Airbus crashed


on Saturday in the Sinai Peninsula after taking off


from the Egyptian Red Sea resort At a press conference in Moscow this


morning, the airline said it would have been impossible for the plane


to break up in midair because of a technical or pilot pulled. -- pilot


fault. Thick fog is causing widespread


travel disruption across the UK Passengers have been left stranded


with many flights cancelled or Foggy conditions are expected to


continue throughout the morning. The Met Office has issued


a weather warning In Turkey, the governing AK party


has scored a convincing victory in yesterday's Parliamentary elections,


winning back the majority it lost just five months ago.


Our correspondent Mark Lowen is in Ankara.


Was this a surprise? It was, no opinion poll had pointed


to such a convincing victory for the AK party, but what they have managed


to do is capitalise on fears of insecurity and violence in recent


weeks after a ceasefire with PKK Kurdish rebels broke down in July,


sparking a wave of violence which consumed south-eastern Turkey, and


it is that, three separate bomb attacks blamed on is it said, which


have contributed to the climate of fear and insecurity, which rallied


supporters behind the AK party to bring it back to a majority


Government, which it had lost in June. Among the opposition, though,


there will not be any cause for celebration. They fear that an


emboldened AK party Government will go even further towards


authoritarianism which he has demonstrated in recent years, that


clamp-downs on freedom of expression will continue and that Turkey will


continue its isolation from its allies. Real fears and splits now at


the heart of Turkish society, but, like all open, president and again


is been manned the West have to do business with -- President Taylor


Bird again. Turkey is a vital country in this region and that is


why he knows he has the support of his people, he knows he has a strong


position to go on and move Turkey forwards, but there will be


turbulent times ahead after the election.


A man orphaned at the age of eight has called for an apology from his


local authority after being abandoned and left to bring himself


up. Tony Hawkins and his three siblings have been awarded ?75,000


in compensation after his parents died in 1983 from accidental


poisoning. We started pursuing these files


seven years ago and they have repeatedly fobbed us off, it


borders, and even after the award they have never directly approached


us with an apology to say, we failed, we don't know why, but we


hope it never happens again. The Australian Prime Minister


Malcolm Turnbull has abolished the awarding of Knights and Dames under


the honour system in the country. It was reintroduced in 2014 by his


predecessor, Tony Abbott. The controversial decision to grant


Prince Phillip a knighthood in January was widely seen as one of


the factors which ended his term as leader.


Friends and family will join over 1000 officers for the funeral of


He was killed after being knocked down by a pick-up truck while


Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Tim again.


Yes, the cricket this morning, including Test Match


We'll bring you that in a minute, but first to events in Sharjah where


it's day two of the third and final test between England and Pakistan.


England are batting as they try to chase down Pakistan's


And they suffered an early setback - Moeen Ali out after scoring just 14


But Alastair Cook and Ian Bell looked to have settled in nicely.


This six from Bell the highlight of the morning session.


After lunch, though, the partnership was broken.


Cook out just one run short of his 50.


And it's got worse for England since then.


Joe Root, so often the hero, out shortly afterwards for just four.


There's a couple of stories to bring you from yesterday evening too,


including a great win for England's rugby league team last night,


as they beat the world's number one side New Zealand in Hull.


Skipper Sean O'Loughlin's late try helped secure a 26-12


victory in the first of three matches between the two sides.


The second test is at London's Olympic stadium on Saturday.


And Nico Rosberg won the Mexico Formula One Grand Prix,


beating his Mercedes team mate and newly-crowned world champion


It was Rosberg's fourth win of the season and lifts him up


Aston Villa are expected to announce Remi Garde


as their new manager today, having sacked Tim Sherwood last week.


Garde played for Arsenal in the 1990s, and was part


of Arsene Wenger's squad that won the league and cup double in 1998.


More recently, he's been manager of French club Lyon, and has also


Villa, who are bottom of the table, play Spurs


And if the newspapers are to be believed, Chelsea may soon be


With his team currently struggling, Jose Mourinho refused to speak to


the press after last week's defeat to West Ham.


He did turn up this week following another loss,


and it's catching, if the Test Match Special team are anything to go by!


Lets get the thoughts of Geoffrey Boycott. I have got nothing to say.


First time ever, I have got nothing to say. England must be more


attacking in their batting? Ours but nothing to say. Phil, good to see


you, you look and fraud by the play. England in a decent position? I have


got nothing to say. But when you look at the outfield and the pitch,


will it last five days? Nothing to say. There you have it, the thoughts


of Phil Tufnell, Michael Vaughan and Geoffrey Boycott, who had nothing to


say. Which is rare, the Geoffrey


Boycott! They did a very good impression of Jose Mourinho, who


really needs to grow up, doesn't he?


He is not a happy boy at the moment, he has never been put under


this kind of pressure in his whole career, he was at Porto, Inter


Milan, Real Madrid, winning things, even when they were not playing well


they were towards the top of the table, but Chelsea have lost so many


games this season, and as defending champions, so it has been a shock.


He has blamed the referees and everyone else, it has been frosty,


that is how the BBC website describes the interview, a frosty


interview, and he walked out halfway through, which is why you saw


Michael Vaughan take a walk as well! He is not happy, and he is in


all of the newspapers, the back pages covering potential replacement


for him. We are still not sure whether he will be staying or going


from Chelsea. Fabio Capello one of the papers


suggesting is keen to take over. Thank you for joining


us this commentary morning. Welcome to the programme if you've


just joined us - we're on BBC Two Lots of you getting in touch about


our film on dating apps. Lydia says, you are being very critical on


dating apps. I don't think we are being that critical. She said two


off her friends were married using dating apps. Another viewer says she


met her partner on a dating app, you 60 and she is 54 so it is not just


for young people. Another getting married to someone she met on a


dating apps next year. Congratulations.


Do get in touch on the usual ways. Texts will be charged


at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch


the programme online wherever you are via the BBC news app or


our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria, and you can also subscribe to all


our features on the news app, by going to 'add topics' and


searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'. How can


the adoption process be speeded up? David Cameron's due to


announce new measures today. As well as cutting red tape,


English councils will be challenged to double the number


of children placed with new families The average wait for children


before they move in with their new family is 17 months, which the


Government says isn't fast Edward Timpson is the


Children's Minister. We have seen a 72% increase of the


children adopted but in the last few years we have seen a 4 way of the


numbers of children being put forward to be adopted, partly


because of court judgments being misinterpreted by councils, but we


also need to bear down on the delay is taking place with matching


children. We need to try to get them in their placement earlier through


something called fostering for adoption, or concurrent planning,


and we have seen 500 children benefit from that this year but we


think councils could do better, and the challenge for them today is to


double those figures so that more children go into their loving,


stable family homes more quickly and get all of the benefits we know that


can bring. Hugh Thornbery is Chief Executive


of Adoption UK. Karen Goodman worked for over 35


years with children's adoption as a social worker and now is


professional officer at the British Greg adopted


a young boy six years ago and just a few years ago he discovered that


he was himself also adopted. He doesn't want us to use


his surname to protect And 'Paul' adopted three sisters


aged two, three and four in 2013. We have changed his name and we're


blurring his face to also protect Greg, how long did the process take


for you? The actual adoption process to be approved took about six months


which was a fairly good time. I think we were lucky in terms of the


court date at the to be rubberstamped, it fitted in with the


six months. If you miss that date, or the court might not be sitting


for another couple of months, so you sort of miss out on that. But the


process was ridiculous in terms of the social worker would come out for


the first visit, and would ask you lots of questions. Then go away and


a month back, would come back and ask you the same questions to myself


and my partner at the time but why couldn't they have asked us on the


first visit? We had lots of visits and then they wanted to see our


birth daughter, why not see my birth daughter on the first visit, as


well? It delayed it and delayed it. I felt this six-month process could


easily have been brought down to two months. Paul, from beginning to end


how long? From beginning to end, to the point our children were living


with us was four months. So that is really quite speedy. Incredibly


quick. How did your social workers manage that when we are told the


average is about 17 months? We were identified very, very early on at


our preparation group for a group of three that we were looking for and


the match was made very, very quickly for us. Ours was sped up to


make sure that we were at the point of being ready for adoption,


approved and matched for when my eldest, who would have been four at


the time, was then able to go to school from September. So we were


pushed through at a very quick rate so that we had time of our daughters


in August to form that initial bond so she was ready to start with the


rest of her school in the September. So, yeah, it was incredibly quick.


OK. Let's bring in Hugh Thornbery today. The measures today, all


adoption services to be merged into regional bodies so children can be


matched more quickly. How much, if that all happens, how much will it


speed up the process? Speeding up the process is important we know


delay is harmful for children and we have seen the process improve over


the last couple of years. So decisions are taken in a more timely


way. However, we have seen a big drop-off in the number of children


for whom adoption is the right decision, so we have had an


overreaction to court cases placed in September 2013 which have led to


a big drop in the number of children coming forward to adopt and some


measures announced today aim to tackle that which is a good thing.


OK. Do you think it's a good thing for the process to be speeded up,


Karen Goodman? Nobody wants to see delay but there are concerns that


the process will just be looked at from a perspective of speed, rather


than thoroughness and making sure that the assessment processes are as


indepth as they must be and that children are placed in their


absolutely the best and correct placements and that doesn't


necessarily involve speed. Do you accept the point that he felt he was


being asked the same sorts of questions on several visits from


Greg? Greg will have seen one part of the process, from his


perspective. But meanwhile the social worker is doing a number of


other checks, making inquiries, talking to different people,


organising panels, preparing reports for panels. It's a long and


complicated process. He will just see one part of that. He did


experience the same questions being asked. Yes. Sometimes you have is to


ask things a few times. Do you? Yes, it's very important that the process


is given the time to mature. Did your answers change Greg when you


were asked the same questions? Not really. I understand there has got


to be, what potential adopters have to realise is the fact that just


because they ring up whoever the local council, whether they're


thinking of adopting, doesn't mean the following week they'll get a


child. If you get approved doesn't mean you can't pull out of that


process. Yes, it's a waste of time, but if you are not ready to adopt,


then don't adopt. I think with the case of my son, my son was taken


into care on his first day of birth. He was with the same Foster parents,


fantastic Foster parents for 18 months. He had an amazing 18 months


with these. But there was a, will he go back to the birth mother, will he


go out for adoption? It wasn't a case of me being approved or not


because we ended up with him further down the process. It was a case of


he was put into care and kept in care because they weren't sure was


he going to be adopted or go back to the birth parents? It was clear from


day one he was never going to go back to the birth parents. There is


that delay, as well. What do you, in terms of becoming an adopted parent


what are the criteria? Well, it's very broad. We managed to dispel a


lot of the myths about who can't adopt. The important thing is that


people have the right motivation, that they have the capacity, the


capability to parent well and one of the things we must not forget is 71%


of children adopted from care have been seriously abused before coming


into the care system, they will have needs that will endure for years.


The right support needs to be there to support the parents adopting


them, and parents also need to understand that these children


aren't general run of the mill children, they do have issues that


come from their past abuse and will need careful parenting to help them


move on. Thank you all very much. He was determined to leave


Guantanamo Bay with his integrity intact and he has absolutely done


that - the words of one of of the doctors who treated Shaker Aamer


hours after he landed in Britain. The 48-year-old British resident was


held at the US detention facility for nearly


14 years without charge of trial David Nicholl,


a consultant neurologist, told us that Mr Aamer was given an


overdose of a strong anti-malaria drug when he first arrived


at Guantanamo Bay - even though Mr Nicholl, who has campaigned


for Shaker Aamer's release, explained what condition he was


in when he first met him. When I met him I was really struck


by his very positive demeanour. Just, not surprisingly,


absolutely over the moon to see us. What was just striking,


he sat us all down and just said, I need you to picture that I've


just arrived from Mars and, because you need to understand that really,


he has a complete lack of faith in all the health care professionals


he met in Guantanamo, to the extent that, and this is really, my jaw


dropped hearing this, he hadn't eaten or drunk


at all, all the way from Guantanamo. All this talk about being in a posh


jet flying back at the taxpayer's expense, that was actually the level


of determination of this man. The first thing he wanted to do was


to get back and see a doctor and have tests and investigations


to make sure he was fit and well. And also he felt, I'm expressing


his view here, he felt that he had been poisoned or things had been put


in his food over the years and he really wanted to establish any


evidential basis for the torture he had experienced through health


care professionals, which just Was the reason he didn't eat or


drink on the plane, on the journey No, I think it was more, he wanted


to present himself in a way in which nothing had been touched, that


the evidential trail was clear. That no one could argue that anyone


had tinkered with the evidence It might seem crazy,


but everything about Guantanamo is crazy and that was his passionate


and absolutely firm held belief. Equally, I have to say,


it's like all these things in a doctor-patient relationship, you're


trying to explain what is reasonable So what I did say to him,


because this is in the public record, it is known that


when prisoners arrive at Guantanamo, that it was standard operating


procedure that they were given overdoses of a drug called Mephaquin


which is an antimalarial drug. It's a very controversial drug, it


has been associated with psychosis None of the soldiers,


no one else arriving in Guantanamo He was actually surprised I knew


that but I said that, if we were to measure Mephaquin,


we wouldn't detect it now He may have that belief


but he just wants to have every investigation and possible almost


as a medical legal matter to Hence not wanting to contaminate


his body, if that is the right word, on the plane,


by eating or drinking anything. Just on the Mephaquin,


the antimalarial, is there any risk I only heard about this


about a year ago. There was a freedom of information


request to get these details. There is no reason at all to


give someone Mephaquin in Cuba. Essentially,


there is no malaria in Cuba. Staff, military staff that have come


from the same regions as these detainees came from,


were not given Mephaquin. None of


the soldiers were given Mephaquin. And the dose they were given was


essentially five times the therapeutic dose


so highly likely to produce really What would be the motivation


from a medical professional's point of view to give someone Mephaquin


when there is no reason to? And really questions should be


asked about who wrote that policy. Well, you may recall,


this was in the news recently, about It can be a very useful drug


in malarial areas. Can I ask you what Shaker Aamer


looked like? The thing is, he does look quite


different to the photographs you have seen already and that is


because he is 14 years older. So he does look


a lot older than those pictures. And I'm sure that's a consequence


of his detention, basically. What was really striking was that


same smile that you see in the And the warmth


of his personality absolutely beamed And I have to say the determination,


and that is exemplified by what he You can actually see, he is probably


a bit of a pain in the ours! But that's actually what got him


through. And I suppose in that,


we are both quite similar! We've contacted the US Department of


Defence to comment on those claims We can talk now to Clive


Stafford-Smith, Shaker Aamer's Can you give us an insight into his


state of mind? David Nicholls said it all. Shaker is Shaker. He is


indomitable and he maintains his sense of humour. It was lovely to


talk to him. It's such a joy to have a conversation with him here in


Britain as opposed to in Guantanamo Bay. It's reported that he is likely


to receive ?1 million in compensation from the British


Government. Is that true and if so what is that for? Well, I don't


know, that's not what I do. I am only licensed in America so I don't


have anything to do with what happens here in Britain. We will


certainly be suing the United States and I can tell you with almost 100%


certainty he won't receive anything at all from the Americans, for 14


years of torture and 14 years of detention without trial. Because of


all these absurd legal rules that say that the Government can set up a


rule that you can't sue them, no matter what they do to you. I think


it's really important we bring that litigation as a matter of principle.


With the extent of potentially what happened to Shaker Aamer at Bagram


before being transferred to Cuba where it's alleged a British


intelligence officer witnessed his head smashed against a wall, do you


need a public inquiry for the extent of those allegations being made by


Shaker Aamer to come out? That's the key, frankly Shaker's big interest


in all of this is not that people should pay money although I dare say


they probably ought to if you have been tortured all that time and it's


not that people should be prosecuted or persecuted or whatever, he is


absolutely firm that there needs to be an impartial and transparent


inquiry because he says, look, we can't undo what what's happened to


me but we can try to make sure that in future the rules are in place


that other people don't have to go through this. You know, we sort of


totally lost sight as a nation and certainly the United States did too


of what our values are if we were really involved in all of that


torture in Bagram. Thank you very much.


We'll bring you coverage of the funeral for PC Dave Phillips,


knocked down and killed by a pick-up truck while on duty on Merseyside.


And there's been an explosion of online dating apps,


but a leading sexual health consultant has told us he wants


dating apps to do more to promote safe sex messages after a rise


The manager at a Metrojet airline in Russia has denied the Airbus plane


could have broken in midair over Egypt because of technical or pilot


error. But a Kremlin spokesperson has warned against speculating over


the course of the crash. The bodies of some of the people killed in the


crash have been flown home to St Petersburg.


Aviation analyst Julian Bray listened to what was said.


They are suggesting there are dark forces out there and things have


happened outside of their control. Worryingly, there are no reports of


conversations with communications, so the smart money is on a device


placed on board but that is pure speculation at the moment. We will


have to wait for the black boxes to be decoded.


Thick fog is causing widespread travel disruption across the UK


Our correspondent Daniel Boettcher is at Heathrow Airport.


How bad is it? At this airport they are waiting for


the folk to believe did, -- waiting for the fog to be lifted, 10% of


flights have been cancelled. Stansted say they have no problems


and are taking diverted aircraft from other airports. Gatwick have


low figures for us. There are problems at Belfast, Cardiff,


Southampton, and it is not just the UK, the fog is causing problems in


airports including Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Brussels as well. This is


the second day the fog has caused problems and it means an aircraft


and crews are out of position, causing more difficulties. There is


still a weather warning in place from the Met office at the moment.


We are told the fog is expected to start clearing later this morning,


but at the moment it is causing problems not just for the flights


but motorists as well, and they are being advised to allow extra time,


to slow down and keep distance from the traffic in front.


Thank you very much. A man who was orphaned at the age


of eight has called for an apology from his local


authority after being abandoned Tony Hawkins and his three siblings


have been awarded around ?75,000 in compensation after his parents


died We started pursuing these files


seven years ago and they have repeatedly fobbed us off, ignored


us, and even after the award they have never directly approached


us with an apology to say, "We failed, we don't know why,


but we hope it never happens again." Figures from the worlds


of entertainment and sport have joined a cross-party


campaign for increased funding of Over 200 names have signed an open


letter to the Government, calling for mental health to be given the


same priority as physical health. Let's catch up with all


the sport now and join Tim. Thank you, here are the main


sporting headlines: England's cricketers are battling to


save the series against Pakistan. On day two of the third


and final Test, they're currently Joe Root, Alastair Cook and


Moeen Ali the men out. Former Arsenal player Remi Garde


will be announced as Aston Villa's He'll be in the stands as Villa,


who are bottom, take on Spurs New Zealand may have won


the rugby union world cup but their rugby league team, who are


also ranked number one in the world, A great victory completed


by captain Sean O'Loughlin try. And it was victory for Nico Rosberg


in last night's Mexico formula one He finished ahead of his Meredes


team mate and newly-crowned world champion Lewis Hmailton, and is now


up to second in the drivers' The funeral will take place later


today for PC Dave Phillips. The 34-year-old,


who had two children, was knocked down and killed by a pick-up truck


while on duty on Merseyside. Our correspondent Ben Brown is


outside Liverpool's Anglican cathedral,


where the service is taking place. What is happening at the moment?


Well, it is a faulty, chilly morning in Liverpool, and at the Anglican


Cathedral, inside there now, the choir of them Greater Manchester


Police force are rehearsing, they will be sinking during the service.


2000 seats have been set out, it is expected by the family there will be


2000 mourners here to remember the life of PC David Phillips. About


1000 of those will be police officers, not only from here in the


Merseyside police force but officers from right around the country will


be coming here to pay their respects to this officer, 34-year-old Dave


Phillips, killed in the Line Of Duty standing on the central reservation


in the early hours of Monday the 25th of October, when he was hit by


a pick-up truck and killed. He leaves a widow, Jen, and two young


daughters, Abigail, who is seven, and so the, just three. One man has


been charged with murder in the wake of that, he will face trial in due


course in Preston. Two other people have been charged in connection with


the death as well but today is about remembering the life of PC David


Phillips and remembering the bravery of police officers every day they go


on duty. The reverend leading the service is a priest from the Wirral


who was a family friend of the Phillips family and has said that


every time a police officer goes on duty, they are putting their lives


at risk for the good of society. He said that today is about celebrating


what was good about Dave Phillips' life. There will also be tributes


from his sister, Hannah, during the service. She said shortly after he


was killed that two girls have been left without a daddy, her mum and


dad have been left without their only son, their oldest child, and


she and her sister left without the Big Brother who always kept an eye


on them. There will also be a Bible reading from Dave Phillips' best


friend and a tribute from the Chief Constable of Merseyside, Sir John


Murphy. As the cortege moved through the city centre, people from across


Liverpool are expected to line the streets to remember him and also, of


course, Hezbollah officers here on Merseyside.


Can the explosion of online dating apps be linked to the recent rise


A leading sexual health consultant has told us he


wants dating apps to do more to promote safe sex messages.


Plans to give the Government more power to find out what we're looking


at on the internet will be published by the Government this week.


Our political guru Norman Smith can explain more.


This matters because it is about what power was the state house to


snoop on its citizens, on you and me, to look at what we write in our


e-mails, to look at what we are looking at on the Internet, to take


a peek at the text messages we send. The Government's view is that


the security services now need to move from the era of the telephone


to the digital era, because, at the moment, the security services can


monitor who I am calling on the blower, how long I speak to them,


and, if they want to know what I am saying, they can apply for a warrant


to listen to my conversations. What the Government is proposing is the


same for the digital it were. So, for example, here are my e-mails.


The state in the form of the police and security services will be able


to see who I am sending e-mails to, when I sent them, but if they wanted


to see what I had written they would have to apply for a warrant,


similarly we look at the Internet, here we have the Guardian front


page, they would be able to see I have visited the Guardian site but


if they wanted to know what pages I had visited on it or what I had


searched on it, they would have to apply for a warrant. That is the key


thing, a warrant. Who will decide whether the security services should


have a warrant? There are two arguments, should it be the


politicians or the judges? If the politicians decide, the argument in


favour of allowing politicians to decide if it is accountable, if a


bomb goes off and a politician has not granted a warrant, they can be


summoned before Parliament to explain why they have not done that.


It is also more practical, if there is a fast-moving terrorist situation


where security services need access to someone's e-mail quickly it is


easier to get hold of the Home Secretary than to wake up a judge in


his country home or something like that. It is also argued that it is


just more appropriate, more transparent to have a politician


because everyone knows who they are, but they don't always know who a


judge is. The argument in favour of judges is


that it is independent of the political process, and many


politicians take the view that politicians should not have any role


in deciding who snoops on us, it needs to be absolutely independent,


so there is no crossover at all with the world of politics. It is also


argued that granting a warrant is a legal process so obviously should be


left to a judge. Lastly, foreign judges do this already. In the


United States, warrants are granted by judges, but that is where the


real argy-bargy is, who should decide who gets a warrant? Should it


be the Home Secretary or a judge? Depending what answer Theresa May


comes up with, it may well determine whether this legislation goes


through, because many MPs are absolutely adamant they do not want


her hands on this at all. They want it to be a judge, and if she says,


no, I must have a role, then it is possible the Government will be


defeated. I think it will be introduced on


Wednesday, the legislation. Will we find out definitively what answer


she has on Wednesday? Yes, we will. My gut instinct is we


will get a hybrid compromise from her, which will involve, yes,


judges, but also involve the Home Secretary. My feeling is what we are


likely to see is that the initial request for a warrant would go to


the Home Secretary because it would have to be taken quickly, so she


could do that, but then that decision would be subject to a


review by judges, in other words judges would have to take a look at


her decision and say, yes, that is OK, no, it is not OK. The many


politicians, that is not good enough, they want her out of the


picture altogether, but my sense is she is reluctant to do that


primarily because of argument of accountability and the need to act


quickly. She does not want the security services left waiting


trying to get hold of a judge in the middle of the night.


Thank you very much, Norman Smith at Westminster.


This morning we've been talking about the proliferation


Their use has exploded over the last few years from Tinder, which is


the most popular one in the UK, to Grindr for gay or bisexual men.


There are now hundreds of them and, in a relatively short space of time,


they've become the fourth most common way of meeting a partner.


But a leading sexual health consultant


is calling for dating apps to do more to promote safe sex messages.


Peter Greenhouse claims such sites are fuelling a rise


The latest figures from Public Health England show


a 33% increase in cases of syphilis, with gonorrhoea up 19%.


You should be able to turn over partners are a lot quicker with a


dating app. The problem is the quicker you change partners, the


more likely you are to get infections, you don't have to be a


rocket scientist to work it out. Also, if you are keen to change


partners quickly, having a dating app does not just tell you if


somebody is available but exactly where they are to within the nearest


few metres. You could be in a bar, put in your details into the app,


swipe this way or that way and find somebody on the other side of the


bar who is up for it, so that must increase the rate at which you


change partner or find a new partner, and that in itself has got


to increase the risk of sexually transmitted infections.


With the growth of dating apps seemingly showing no


sign of abating, Radio 1 Newsbeat's Rick Kelsey meets some people who


His report contains some base language.


Do you ever think you are spending too much time on this? I preferred


the chase. How often do you take it through to the end point? Actually


getting laid? Yes. I have never gotten laid from one. So you are on


these 46, seven hours a day... Window shopping. You look


surprised? I am, a little bit! I should take it as a massive hit, a


red light, white using this if you were not enjoying it? But I am, at


the same time. I have had enough of guys my age had nothing to give me


physically, emotionally or materialistic, so I thought I would


give it a go and there are some pretty decent guys.


Clover uses an app called Seating Arrangement which many women use to


meet guys who will give them presents. She keeps much of what she


is given in a room at her parents' house. Look at this! What is in the


bag? All kinds of stuff, girl stuff, lingerie, clothes, jewellery, bags,


Perkins, stuff like that. What is it about the setup of an app like that


that interest you? It was not for chavvy people, most apps anyone can


go one but this one has a standard, they are where they want to be in


life and just want to have fun now. Because of what you are getting, is


there an expectation of sex? Sometimes, sometimes. But they are


usually quite forward with that, they usually say it straightaway,


because of that is what they want, it is what they want. But if it is


not what I want, it is not what I will do because it is not what I


want. Marianne uses a dating app to look


for specific men, giving her control in the search for a husband. There


is no point using other apps because I have two marry a Muslim guy, and I


don't want to be wasting my time. I thought I would give it a try. Try


my luck, see what happens! You are worried about your family finding


out you were on an app? Yes, my sisters know because they are laid


back and modern. But if my dad realised I would on there, he would


be like, what the hell?! I could not say, dad, I have met my 'the one' on


a dating app, I would have to make a a story, I met him through a friend


of a friend, old school. You can watch that story on the


radio ones big website. Let's talk about this some more with


Cary James, who is an expert in sexual health at the


Terrence Higgins Trust, a charity which promotes awareness of HIV


and sexually transmitted diseases. Er. What do you think of this link?


There's reasons why sexually transmitted diseases are on the rise


It's said there is a link between the rise and the rise in dataing


apps and the use of them? I think we had a major problem with chlamydia


before the apps start the. The behaviour of people on the apps is


down to the individual. It's also about where do they learn how to


navigate their own sexual behaviour? I think it's a real indication of


the lack of sexual health information in schools and the kind


- it's not compulsory in schools. If people don't know when they start


having romantic relationships how to protect themselves and have a


healthy sex life it's very difficult to navigate it once they've already


had their sexual debut. I don't know why that would even explain the


reasonable rise in STIs in the last year. I think there is a lot of


reasons around subgroups. It's quite complicated. The thing that


smartphone apps have changed is how sexual networks are created. Let's


say in the old days people would go to a bar or nightclub and that was


where their sexual network was based, in the late 90s that changed


to websites. Now it's changed again. Every time there is this change in


how people meet sexual partners there is this questioning how can we


use tools to better educate people. This is the latest way this has


happened. Sure. I still don't understand why there might be a rise


in certain STIs because of a link with dating apps as opposed to


meeting in a bar, what's the difference? I think if you look at


the research they're talking about they're saying that people,


especially the ones from America, they're saying people on dating apps


are more likely to have an STI. Using a dating app is the quickest


way to find sexual partners so people that want to find multiple


sexual partners and find it in a quick and effective way are drawn to


that. That group could well be the same group that would have had high


levels of STIs before, they're using a new platform. So they already had


before they began using the app. This is the latest way they've found


they can find those partners. In terms of the lack of relationship


and sexual education in schools that you talked about at the beginning,


that seems to have been an issue in schools in this country for years


and years. Are you saying it's still not detailed enough for teenagers?


Absolutely not. There was a recent poll that showed four out of five


young people would like to have sexual relationship education in


schools but at least a third of schools aren't providing good


quality SRE. That's why the trust continues to campaign that on sex


and education be compulsory in all schools and it's age spes fk and


starts before the time that people start having romantic relationships.


It is up to teachers to do that rather than mums and dads? I think


mums and dads have a definite role. Teachers have a definite role. I


think community organisations like the trust can also support these


structures in order to get the information on there, talk about how


to have these conversations in a meaningful and impactful way. Thank


you. Tell us if you can hear a similarity


between the lyrics in these two tracks.


# The players gonna play and the haters gonna hate


# I am gonna shake, shake, shake it off


# Haters gonna hate # Players gonna play


# That was Taylor swift and another


song you might never have heard of by Jesse Braham. He is suing Taylor


Swift are to 27 million for allegedly stealing the lyrics. He is


singing haters gon hate. It's the way he sings it. It's a slow jam. He


sings haters gonna hate. They're two key phrases from that massive Taylor


Swift song. He has said that he has copyright of those lyrics and is now


suing her for around ?27 million. It's tricky ground for him to be


suing her on this basis. Why? When it comes to lyrics there's very


different things in copyright law. It has to be original. There has to


be a substantial amount of the song that you have copied and it has to


be actually copied. There is no similarity in the song. Musically.


And a phrase like haters gonna hate, that's not an original phrase.


That's been used in hip hop since the 90s or something. Whether he


does have a claim, I mean, obviously in America things can go to court


and then you are at the mercy of a jury who might decide against Taylor


Swift, you never know. But at the moment it doesn't - it's shaky


ground for him to go on. Also, he started off asking for a writing


credit. And a selfie and he got turned down for that. Now he is


going, like, full steam ahead with wanting this amount of money. Maybe


Taylor's record company should have said of course you can have a selfie


with her! But they kind of dismissed him effectively, now he has got even


crosser? Yeah, we have - they've made no comment. From the interview


he has given he said that he asked for a writing credit and they said


you have no claim. They're not commenting on it. Thank you very


much. Lots of you have got in touch this


morning to comment on our interview with a man who was orphaned at the


age of eight and effectively he and his three siblingings were abandoned


by the local authority and left to bring themselves up because their


parents died and they were awarded ?75,000 in compensation recently


from Liverpool City Council and are asking for an apology from the local


authority. He has called Tony Hawkins and he told us about his


upbringing after his mum and dad died from accidental poisoning. It


went from being just a normal family, siblings arguing and


fighting and a very warm family environment, food on the table, all


sitting around having our tea of an evening, to overnight just becoming


chaotic. James quickly with that responsibility and the pressure for


him became too much. His life went quickly downhill. Clare went to live


with a distant family member, I say distant, one not close to us and


within a week was back with us. She had learning disabilities so she


struggled. For Stephen and I we were straightaway put in a position where


we had to fend for ourselves, we realised it was down to us. We were


only kids and we would have conversations like, can you feel


that pain in your stomach? Like, yeah, it was hunger. What were you


eating? There was nothing. The dog biscuits was, that's all there was


in the kitchen so I would nibble on dog biscuits. If there was bread I


would put something like vinegar or anything else normally in the


cupboard, and we would repeatedly walk into the kitchen and open


cupboards knowing there was nothing there to eat. Tony Hawkins talking


earlier. Steve e-mailed to say their case cannot have been unique, I was


in a bedsit at 15, I was left to fend for myself. I ended up with six


months in custody, remember leased before my 16th birthday. There was


no school and I ended up on a YTS for the unemployed. Another tweet,


pursuing a negligence claim will force the council to give the


answers they're holding back from giving. Louise e-mails to say, I


feel for Tony and his siblings having no answers. I have memories


of being in different homes when I was young but those memories are


blurred. I can't get answers either. It makes me feel like a part of my


childhood doesn't actually exist. I feel frustrated and I need the


answers for closure. This text says, I am a practising


social worker and I am dismayed by the ?75,000 in compensation to this


family. 30 years ago social work was in a very different place.


Thankfully all public services have evolved and children and the public


are much better protected. I am disgusted this compensation claim


seems to be purely financial driven and has resulted in the council


paying the equivalent of two years' salary of a social worker that will


result in children already at risk today receiving fewer resources. On


the programme tomorrow we meet some people who defected from North


Korea. Thank you very much for your company today. Have a good day. We


are back tomorrow at 9. 9.15am.


A man tells us how he and his siblings were left to fend for themselves after the death of their parents.

Are dating apps fuelling a rise in STIs? Watch our film and decide.

And we talk about the R&B singer who claims Taylor Swift pinched his lyrics for her hit Shake It Off.