02/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire


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02/11/2015

Daily news and current affairs programme. A man tells how he and his siblings were left to fend for themselves after the death of their parents.


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LineFromTo

I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

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Abandoned and left to fend for themselves - four siblings who

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had to raise themselves after their parents died have been awarded

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We meet one of the children who - 30 years on - says it's

:00:17.:00:25.

Plus, what caused a Russian holiday jet to crash over

:00:26.:00:31.

And, do dating apps have a responsibility to promote better

:00:32.:00:42.

We'll hear from him and meet people who say they're

:00:43.:00:46.

Do you ever think I am spending too much time on these? All the time.

:00:47.:00:55.

Don't care. Going up to London for a day and you

:00:56.:00:59.

want to meet up in the evening with someone you can, you can go on the

:01:00.:01:04.

app and it's easy. It's just quicker. That's kind of why I have

:01:05.:01:09.

started getting on to Tinder and it's the pace of it, it's instant.

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We're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Channel until 11.00am this morning.

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Throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest news and sport and

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we'll discuss new government plans to speed up the adoption process.

:01:28.:01:33.

If you've adopted we would love to hear your insight into what

:01:34.:01:35.

Plus, we'll speak to those who've spent time with Shaker Aamer since

:01:36.:01:42.

Your contributions to this programme and your expertise

:01:43.:01:47.

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

:01:48.:01:52.

And, of course, you can watch the programme online wherever you

:01:53.:01:56.

are - via the BBC News app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria

:01:57.:02:00.

and you can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

:02:01.:02:03.

by going to add topics and searching "Victoria Derbyshire."

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First, a family of four orphaned children

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have been awarded ?75,000 in compensation after being effectively

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abandoned by their local authority and left to bring themselves up.

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Parents James and Elileen Hawkins died in 1983

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Their children, aged between 8 and 16,

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In an exclusive first broadcast interview Tony Hawkins -

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who was eight at the time - says it's a miracle he survived -

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as he had to scavenge for food often eating old dog

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biscuits or a slice of bread with vinegar and sugar smeared on it.

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Liverpool City Council have admitted they didn't provide proper care

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Thank you very much for coming on the programme. Tell us, first of

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all, what happened to your parents. My parents were, one evening, my

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father came home, he had been the out for a drink with friends. My dad

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was into the home brew kind of hobby. He came home with a bottle

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which he said a friend had give him, said it was vodka, just needed

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watered down and they could drink it as vodka. So he and my mum and a

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friend did that and they had a drink because it was coming up to their

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anniversary and they drank this vodka. The friend had less than

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them, I think left shortly afterwards, and it turned out to be

:03:37.:03:46.

an alcohol that can be used as an engine cleaner, that killed them in

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a painful and ex-cruciating way. It left you and your brother and sister

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alone. What did the social services? From my recollection there was

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limited intervention. We went on a couple of trips in the first few

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months which weren't very pleasant experiences. Did they decide that

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someone should look after you or your 16-year-old brother should?

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From what we know now, just from speaking to James and from what we

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knew, James was called to a meeting with the council at 16, he was a

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young 16-year-old boy grieving over his parents and he was asked do you

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want to look after the children and he obviously said, well, yeah. That

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was it. Evident left to do that. There was -- he was left to do that.

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There was no court case, there was no procedures followed. And that was

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it. We were left there on our own. We will never know the truth because

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we don't know, there was no records to say what happened. Right. Give

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the audience an insight into what daily life was like as an

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eight-year-old, with your 16-year-old brother apparently

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looking after you. It went from being a normal family, siblings

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arguing and fighting, a warm family environment food on the table, all

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sitting around having our tea in the evening, to overnight just becoming

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chaotic. James quickly with that responsibility, the pressure for him

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became too much. His life went quickly downhill. Clare had learning

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disabilities so she struggled. For Stephen and I we were straightaway

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put in a position where we had to fend for ourselves, we quickly

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realised it was down to us. We were only kids and we would have

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conversations like, can you feel that pain in your stomach? I was

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like, yeah, it was hunger. What were you eating? There was nothing. The

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dog biscuits was, that's all there was in the kitchen so I would nibble

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on dog biscuits, if there was bread I would put something like vinegar

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or anything else you would normally find in the cupboard and repeatedly

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walk into the kitchen and open cupboards knowing there was nothing

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there to eat, so there was nothing. James, his life was falling away.

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Minimal benefits he was on, we still don't know, if we did get a chance

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to get money off James we would buy noodles or something we knew would

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last for a few days. Did you go to school? We missed a lot of school.

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You can imagine there is no boundaries, no adult figure to get

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you up in the morning or push you to go to school, so we were kind of

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your own boss really. Just left to get yourself up, to get yourself

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dressed, fed, and get to school on time which quickly, if you were

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hungry, or we were really hungry, we would just stay in bed because it

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was easier to stay asleep and pull the blankets over your head and try

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to get by until you would get something to eat and enable to you

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go to school. Is it true you and your nine-year-old brother used to

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share a uniform, he would go for a couple of days and he would give the

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uniform to you and you would go for a couple of days? That went on

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Father a while, especially in the early -- for a while, especially in

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the early aftermath of our parents' death, we struggled with all normal

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clothes. We would share a lot, basic socks and underwear. Uniform was a

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problem. So, yeah, it was very, very difficult. We had to kind of just

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get by with each other. Me and Stephen became, we had to be a unit.

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It's extraordinary on so many levels. It's almost unbelievable.

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Where were relatives, where were teachers saying who is looking after

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you, what's happening, why haven't you been to school? This is only the

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80s, it's not the 50s. Paternal side of the family, my dad's side weren't

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close to my father anyway. I think there was a lot of family problems

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on his side, his relationship with his siblings. So they never played a

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part. His mother was, must have been in her 80s, she was very old. She

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lived a distance away, couldn't travel and had illness, she died

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within that year of my father dying. My maternal side, there was a lot of

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family issues relating to them, either lived too far away or had

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their own real issues that weren't in a position to look after us. But

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the responsibility was put on James. I would say in the first few weeks

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would people could rally around or try and help then we realised it was

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just about us and the help kind of disappeared or just became less, I

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think we became very good at not feeling like a - not wanting people

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to think we were victims or beggars, we put up a front like we had to

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think - we had to stay proud and make people think we were still OK.

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I can't look back and say and blame certain people and say why didn't

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you help? Because we were kind of became very hard to say we are OK,

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because we were in fear of being taken away you see. Right. That was

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the bory -- that was the worry, if you said we need some help here, you

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thought you might be split up? Absolutely. Speaking to James that

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was the responsibility put on his head, which for me is just

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diabolical. He was such a young kid and wasn't outgoing strong-minded

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kid, he stayed in his room playing records, he would go to school and

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he was very bright lad. Ultimately, within 24 hours he said now you are

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a father of your siblings. Now you have to look after the finances, you

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have to look after the house, the bills. He should never have been put

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in that position. Yeah, it was very difficult for James. As an adult,

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you did all fend for yourselves and you have gone on to achieve, you got

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a scholarship at a good school and so on. But as an adult then you

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start asking questions and looking back. Yes. I think for all four of

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us we didn't look back, it was too hard to look back. We always tried

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to, eggs Stephen and I, look forward. That was that -- especially

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Stephen and I, look forward. It actually came about when I met, now

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my wife, I met her in 94 and she was a Great Britain athlete and she was

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travelling the world but always wanted to go into social work. She

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qualified as a social worker but she would always ask questions, that

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wasn't right, I am sure that wasn't right. When she got educated in this

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field and had a knowledge she started asking the questions to me.

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And pushing me. It all started with the headstone. We went to visit the

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grave. It was just a very deteriorated wooden cross. She said,

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that's unacceptable. She pursued the council to see if there was anything

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they could do now to pay for the headstone for us. For your parents.

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We have no record of you was the response. She thought, hang on, this

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is not right. She applied under the Data Protection Act for all our

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files and I believe they had a statutory period where they had to

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respond in which they didn't respond within that period. She repeatedly

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requested these files and about three months later got one letter

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through the door saying we have no record, you didn't belong to this

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authority, you belong to a different authority, we knew quite well we

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belonged to that authority. Tried to push us in another direction. We

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showed evidence that we lived in that property and they came back and

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said we have again looked at the files, yes, you did belong to this

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authority but we still have no record of you at all. So that was

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the driver then, this was a case of, hang on, yeah, we now understand

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what happened to us was wrong. We are looking back in the past and

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remembering what happened and now we don't exist. That was for me was the

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most hurtful thing, that was insult upon insult. It was my wife that was

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the driving force behind the whole thing. The council have awarded you

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and your siblings ?75,000 compensation. It tells you what?

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That tells me, it's a token gesture that they've accepted some failings,

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they've accepted something but we don't know what. I just believe it's

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in the hope that this will be brushed under the carpet and go away

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and that's how I see that. But you want what? I want answers. I can't

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go through life now knowing what happened to us and just being

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regarded as the kids that never existed. What happened to them

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records? Somebody somewhere has answers. There's people who are

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probably still alive now who were involved in the organisation or the

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authority and worked for the authority that know something. I

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appeal to them people to say come forward, give us some closure and

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let us have some answers. Also how do we know any lessons have been

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learned? How do we know this is not happening now or will happen to

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other children in that position? Without them answers or an inquiry

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or some Serious Case Review them questions will never be answered. We

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have a statement from Liverpool City Council. The city council has

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publicly acknowledged that it let these young people down over 30

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years ago. Since that time there haven't have been many changes in

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social work practice and safeguards in place to prevent this happening

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now. Would you like an atoing? It would be a starting -- apology. It

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would be a starting point. For me it's too late. We started pursuing

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these files years ago, since then they've ignored us, and never even

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after the award, they've never directly approached us with an

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apology to say we failed, we don't know why. But we hope it never

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happens again. There's been nothing. An apology now would be too late. A

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couple of comments from people watching this morning. ?75,000 is

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rubbish compensation for that family of four children who were abandoned

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by the local authority when their parents died. And Peter e-mailed to

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say a disgrace that the council think such a small amount of money

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is compensation. After this admission once again no names of

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those in social services are published or questioned or even

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prosecuted for negligence. But for you I think it's just you want to

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find out why it happened. I know, I am convinced there is people still

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around now who were involved with the case, who know about the case,

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who have answers and why they're sitting quiet disturbs me. I would

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like them to come forward and talk to us, just explain their side of

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the story or if they were involved in any way and say this is what

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happened. But at the moment we have absolutely no idea. We have had no

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answers at all. Thank you very much.

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It is being reported by the press Association that a 5 -year-old girl

:16:14.:16:18.

has been injured when a car crashed into a tree, killing the driver. She

:16:19.:16:23.

could have been in the vehicle for some time before she was

:16:24.:16:26.

discovered, apparently, according to the ambulance service. Emergency

:16:27.:16:31.

crews found the girl in the back of the car after two cyclists saw it in

:16:32.:16:35.

a ditch in Staffordshire yesterday morning in foggy conditions. The man

:16:36.:16:42.

driving the car was dead at the scene but a spokesman for West

:16:43.:16:44.

Midlands Ambulance Service said, on arrival crews found the car in a

:16:45.:16:48.

ditch, it had suffered considerable damage and appeared to have been

:16:49.:16:52.

there for some time. It was very foggy at the time and it was

:16:53.:16:55.

immediately obvious the man driving had passed away. The girl has been

:16:56.:16:59.

taken to Royal Stoke University hospital after complaining of paint

:17:00.:17:03.

in her back and abdomen. A spokesman said this was extremely difficult

:17:04.:17:10.

for all involved, including the two cyclists who made the discovery. It

:17:11.:17:13.

is not clear how long the five-year-old girl had been in the

:17:14.:17:17.

cart before the ambulance crew arrived, but they say at least for

:17:18.:17:18.

some time before she was discovered. Shaker Aamer's home from Guantanamo

:17:19.:17:23.

but how is he coping with being We'll be talking to two people

:17:24.:17:27.

who've seen him since his return. With hundreds of ways

:17:28.:17:32.

of meeting people online are we We'll talk to

:17:33.:17:36.

a leading sexual health consultant who thinks apps should do more to

:17:37.:17:50.

promote safe sex. The bodies of more than

:17:51.:17:52.

140 people killed in a plane crash in Egypt have been

:17:53.:17:59.

flown home to St Petersburg. The Metrojet Airbus crashed

:18:00.:18:02.

on Saturday in the Sinai Peninsula 23 minutes after taking off

:18:03.:18:05.

from the Egyptian Red Sea resort Russian officials say the plane

:18:06.:18:07.

broke up at high altitude. Thick fog is causing widespread

:18:08.:18:16.

travel disruption across the UK Passengers have been left stranded

:18:17.:18:19.

with many flights cancelled or Foggy conditions are expected to

:18:20.:18:22.

continue throughout the morning. The Met Office has issued

:18:23.:18:25.

a severe weather warning Turkey's President, Tayyip Erdogan,

:18:26.:18:28.

has hailed the strong performance of his ruling

:18:29.:18:34.

Justice and Development party The party, also known as AKP,

:18:35.:18:36.

got back its parliamentary majority that it lost in June with

:18:37.:18:47.

a stronger-than-expected performance Israeli troops have shot

:18:48.:18:49.

and killed a Palestinian who tried The army says the incident happened

:18:50.:18:58.

near a checkpoint between the It's the third attempted stabbing

:18:59.:19:02.

near the checkpoint in recent weeks. Police

:19:03.:19:10.

investigating a series of sex assaults in Clapham and Brixton in

:19:11.:19:14.

South London last month are linking The latest incident happened

:19:15.:19:17.

on Saturday. The woman called for help

:19:18.:19:20.

and her attacker fled. Two men have been arrested

:19:21.:19:22.

and bailed during the inquiry. A family of four orphaned children

:19:23.:19:33.

have been awarded around ?75,000 in compensation after being effectively

:19:34.:19:36.

abandoned by their local authority and left to bring themselves up. In

:19:37.:19:41.

an exclusive first broadcast interview, Tony Hawkins, who was

:19:42.:19:45.

eight at the time, has asked for an apology. Parents James and Eileen

:19:46.:19:50.

Hawkins died in 1983 from accidental poisoning.

:19:51.:19:54.

It went from being just a normal family, siblings are and fighting, a

:19:55.:19:59.

warm family environment, food on the table, sitting around having our tea

:20:00.:20:03.

every evening, too, overnight, becoming chaotic.

:20:04.:20:09.

Friends and family will join over 1000 officers for the funeral

:20:10.:20:12.

He was killed when he was knocked down while

:20:13.:20:15.

Let's catch up with all the sport now.

:20:16.:20:20.

Here's Tim. Plenty of sport, as ever. We will

:20:21.:20:28.

see how England's cricketers are getting on against Pakistan, a solid

:20:29.:20:36.

start today, they are one - the Rodin. We have some rugby league for

:20:37.:20:43.

you, England doing better than their union counterparts. Lewis Hamilton

:20:44.:20:45.

might be world champion but could not win in Mexico last night, his

:20:46.:20:48.

Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg was the winner and we have got the news

:20:49.:20:52.

of a new manager at Aston Villa. And, what is happening to Jose

:20:53.:20:57.

Mourinho? We will show you the test match specialteam's take on his

:20:58.:21:07.

latest post match interview, or lack of one. That is coming up at 10am.

:21:08.:21:13.

Next, we're going to talk about the proliferation of dating apps.

:21:14.:21:16.

There are hundreds of them, from Tinder, which in the space

:21:17.:21:18.

of a few years now has around 50 million active users worldwide,

:21:19.:21:21.

to Grindr for gay or bisexual men, to specialist apps for people who

:21:22.:21:24.

Apps are now the fourth most common way of meeting a partner in the UK.

:21:25.:21:29.

But a leading sexual health consultant

:21:30.:21:31.

is calling for dating apps to do more to promote safe sex messages.

:21:32.:21:34.

Peter Greenhouse claims such sites are fuelling a rise

:21:35.:21:36.

The latest figures from Public Health England show

:21:37.:21:39.

a 33% increase in cases of syphilis, with gonorrhoea up 19%.

:21:40.:21:47.

You should be able to turn over partners a lot quicker with a dating

:21:48.:21:53.

app. The problem is, the quicker you change partners, the quicker you

:21:54.:21:58.

will get into action. But also, if you are very keen to change partners

:21:59.:22:02.

quickly, having a dating app doesn't just tell you that someone is

:22:03.:22:06.

available, it tells you exactly where they are two within the

:22:07.:22:10.

nearest few metres, don't you could even be in a bar, put in your

:22:11.:22:14.

details into the app, swipe this way or that way and find there is

:22:15.:22:17.

somebody on the other side of the bar who is up for it, so that must

:22:18.:22:26.

increase the rate at which you change partners or find new

:22:27.:22:28.

partners, and that in itself has got to increase the risk of sexually

:22:29.:22:30.

transmitted infections. That was Peter Greenhouse

:22:31.:22:31.

from the British Association With the growth of dating apps

:22:32.:22:33.

seemingly showing no sign of abating, Radio One Newsbeat's

:22:34.:22:36.

Rick Kelsey has been asking, His report,

:22:37.:22:39.

which lasts around 14 minutes, James uses dating apps like Grindr,

:22:40.:22:42.

Growlr and Scruff Do you ever think,

:22:43.:22:50.

"I'm spending too much time on 'Love' is probably a bit strong, it

:22:51.:23:00.

is more of a love-hate relationship. I like to see who is going on

:23:01.:23:11.

and what is going on around me but at the same time sometimes it

:23:12.:23:15.

gets very repetitive. I mean, once you've seen it,

:23:16.:23:24.

you've seen them all, kind of thing. James might use apps more than most

:23:25.:23:27.

but the numbers who are swiping, tapping

:23:28.:23:30.

and messaging their way to add date And whether you are looking

:23:31.:23:32.

for love, going out with friends or something more casual, dating apps

:23:33.:23:37.

are a part of everyday life. I think with Happn it's really good

:23:38.:23:39.

because you get to meet people in the same area as you and you are

:23:40.:23:42.

more likely to meet someone who has Everyone just wants to have sex

:23:43.:23:46.

on it! I'm not saying you're

:23:47.:23:52.

desperate but... Now it is basically the best way to

:23:53.:24:03.

meet people, it's sort of got rid But is it just

:24:04.:24:07.

about an easy way to hook up or find someone to have a drink with, or are

:24:08.:24:18.

we addicted to dating? I wish everyone could just fall

:24:19.:24:20.

in love and be happy We might spend three hours waiting

:24:21.:24:23.

for responses or trying to make something happen before realising

:24:24.:24:28.

at the end of those three hours you feel really

:24:29.:24:29.

anxious and uncomfortable. But first, this is Andy, he goes on

:24:30.:24:33.

three or four app dates a week and the fact you're not quite sure what

:24:34.:24:39.

this person is going to be like. I kind of quite like that nervous

:24:40.:24:46.

energy you get before the date. What is it about apps that you

:24:47.:24:49.

like comfort to meeting girls It's just quicker,

:24:50.:24:52.

that's kind of why I started getting I would back myself

:24:53.:24:56.

in three or four hours to certainly You said you liked her

:24:57.:25:08.

and she said she liked you so, Yes,

:25:09.:25:12.

I think we can send her a message. Keep it short and sweet, that

:25:13.:25:15.

seems to work better for myself. One line I use is, "Let's skip the

:25:16.:25:40.

small talk and just go for a drink, I've got some good responses

:25:41.:25:43.

from that one. We'll find out how Andy gets

:25:44.:25:46.

on later. She went to

:25:47.:25:49.

the toilet to freshen up. I saw a rat run across the kitchen,

:25:50.:25:51.

and I killed it. I said, look, I killed a rat

:25:52.:25:54.

for you, I'm a big man. I killed a rat

:25:55.:25:57.

and it happens to be her pet. I once went on a date to the

:25:58.:26:02.

Natural History Museum. And a small child ran into the

:26:03.:26:04.

glass of one of the exhibitions. The guy I was on a date with didn't

:26:05.:26:07.

find it very funny and was very unimpressed that I was

:26:08.:26:12.

laughing and had to leave the room! For James, they are not

:26:13.:26:15.

necessarily about a relationship. I prefer the chase to

:26:16.:26:18.

the actual end product. Where I live is very far out

:26:19.:26:20.

from the country, it takes an hour How often, of all the apps,

:26:21.:26:26.

do you actually take it through to Erm... I've never gotten laid from

:26:27.:26:32.

them. You are on these six,

:26:33.:26:43.

seven hours a day? Because I do sometimes,

:26:44.:26:47.

when I do actually get a decent conversation out of someone, when

:26:48.:27:11.

it's more than just, like, how big is

:27:12.:27:30.

your...? How much can you take? It's kind of like, come on guys,

:27:31.:27:34.

can you get a bit more imaginative? Catch my attention,

:27:35.:27:38.

I'm done with the whole... I should take the hint

:27:39.:27:40.

because there's a massive hint here, a light flashing going,

:27:41.:27:45.

why are you using this? You're obviously not enjoying it

:27:46.:27:47.

but I am at the same time. Do you think there's point

:27:48.:27:50.

when you might say, actually, I'm app dating too much, even though

:27:51.:27:52.

I'm not actually going on dates. So a lot of people use dating apps

:27:53.:27:57.

for meeting new people, going on dates ought to have sex but

:27:58.:28:04.

I've come to meet someone today who uses them not to have a relationship

:28:05.:28:08.

but because of the lifestyle that When Clover goes on dates,

:28:09.:28:11.

she gets given gifts or money. I've had more positive experiences

:28:12.:28:14.

with the opposite sex on that side than I have with people who I went

:28:15.:28:17.

to school with or whatever. I've had enough of guys my age

:28:18.:28:20.

and guys who didn't really have anything to give me, emotionally or

:28:21.:28:24.

physically or materialistically. So I figured I'll give it a go and I

:28:25.:28:26.

actually met some pretty decent guys Lingerie, clothes, jewellery, bags,

:28:27.:28:30.

perfume, stuff like that, I can see you've got a wall

:28:31.:28:37.

of shoes. She uses

:28:38.:28:41.

an app called SeekingArrangement that many women use to meet guys who

:28:42.:28:42.

give them cash or presents. Clover keeps most of what she gets

:28:43.:28:47.

in the bedroom of her parents' What was it about the setup of an

:28:48.:28:50.

app like that that interests you? You know, I think most dating sites,

:28:51.:28:54.

anybody can go on it. They are somewhere

:28:55.:28:58.

in life where they have got what they want materialistically

:28:59.:29:06.

and they just want to have fun now. So talk to me

:29:07.:29:10.

about the benefits of it being on an Because it is with

:29:11.:29:13.

you wherever you go. Say you're going up to London

:29:14.:29:17.

for a day, for a trip or something and you want to meet up in

:29:18.:29:20.

the evening with someone, you can. You can just go on the app

:29:21.:29:23.

and it easy. Because of what you are getting,

:29:24.:29:26.

is there an expectation of sex? But they are usually quite forward

:29:27.:29:28.

with that, You know, because if that's what

:29:29.:29:31.

they want, that's what they want. If that's not what I want,

:29:32.:29:35.

that's not what I'm going to do Yeah, but if they're attractive

:29:36.:29:38.

and whatever If you go on the internet, you can

:29:39.:29:44.

see what people really think about it, they think it's prostitution or

:29:45.:29:52.

something but it really isn't at all because you don't have to do

:29:53.:29:54.

anything you don't want to do. I wish everyone could just fall

:29:55.:29:58.

in love and be happy They always come up with some stupid

:29:59.:30:01.

chat up line, like, hey there, So I would rather just someone would

:30:02.:30:13.

be like, hey, how are you doing? My friend invited me round to his

:30:14.:30:18.

house one weekend to meet a girl She came over,

:30:19.:30:25.

she was a really nice girl so I thought I would open Tinder

:30:26.:30:29.

and see who I could hook up with. So I swiped right for bants

:30:30.:30:32.

and it was a match! So since we last met, I managed to

:30:33.:30:39.

sort myself out with a date tonight, I've just got back from work,

:30:40.:30:43.

popped in the shower, a bit of aftershave on, just walking

:30:44.:30:46.

down to the pub to meet her now. Confident at the same time

:30:47.:30:50.

so fingers crossed it goes well. Hopefully she turns up -

:30:51.:30:59.

you never know, do you! I mean obviously hoping to get

:31:00.:31:01.

on well with her. Maybe a cheeky kiss at the end

:31:02.:31:05.

of the night would be good, I'm not going to set

:31:06.:31:08.

the bar too high. Just take it from there, really,

:31:09.:31:15.

yeah. Andy is waiting for his date to show

:31:16.:31:20.

up - it's a familiar routine and he While Andy is happy to share his

:31:21.:31:24.

dating matches and stories, some Maryam is looking for a husband

:31:25.:31:29.

and uses an app called MusMatch. At the end of the day, there's no

:31:30.:31:37.

point in going on other apps because, you know, obviously I have

:31:38.:31:41.

to marry a Muslim guy and I don't You're still worried about your

:31:42.:31:46.

family finding out you're on an app? My sisters know because they're

:31:47.:31:56.

quite laid back and quite modern, but if my dad realised I was on it,

:31:57.:32:06.

he would be, like, "What the hell?!" I couldn't point blank sit down

:32:07.:32:10.

and say, "Dad, I met my... I don't know, 'the one',

:32:11.:32:17.

on a dating app." I would have to make

:32:18.:32:19.

a story up like, yeah, I met him through a friend of a

:32:20.:32:21.

friend, you know, like, old school. Why do you think it is that Muslim

:32:22.:32:25.

parents are more afraid, if you like, of their daughters or sons

:32:26.:32:28.

being on an app than other people? I think it's society,

:32:29.:32:31.

what are people going to think? And I think, Islamically as well,

:32:32.:32:34.

if you luck at religion, it says you shouldn't really be interacting

:32:35.:32:37.

with a male person because that's when adultery comes in

:32:38.:32:42.

and one thing leads after another. Maryam,

:32:43.:32:44.

do you think that a lot of your I don't know, for some reason it's,

:32:45.:32:50.

like, embarrassing. I'm like literally like, it's not

:32:51.:32:58.

like you're on Tinder or anything. But I've heard a lot about Tinder,

:32:59.:33:06.

that it's going to just pick up girls and it's just, like,

:33:07.:33:10.

you know... It's not used for

:33:11.:33:12.

like the right reasons. I wouldn't put myself on that,

:33:13.:33:14.

obviously not. But MusMatch kind

:33:15.:33:20.

of attracted me because I thought it is a Muslim website,

:33:21.:33:22.

you will get Muslim guys on there. Muslim people with good values,

:33:23.:33:30.

people that are serious But then again,

:33:31.:33:32.

you don't know their intentions. So I met this girl for a date

:33:33.:33:36.

in Plymouth, A really nice Range Rover came

:33:37.:33:38.

shooting by and I said, So I met this girl through an app

:33:39.:33:50.

in New York. And everything was going fine,

:33:51.:33:58.

super, she was amazing. We got chased by a really crazy man

:33:59.:34:00.

and the night ended there So this place might look

:34:01.:34:03.

like a typical Soho barber's but it's actually where people who

:34:04.:34:20.

think they have a problem with The clinic helps hundreds

:34:21.:34:22.

of people each year. We try to make it look

:34:23.:34:29.

as little like a traditional NHS Apps play a crucial role

:34:30.:34:32.

in the lives of young men in 2015. And sometimes they

:34:33.:34:37.

become compulsive. You get sexual affirmations that

:34:38.:34:38.

feel-good when you click this. Some people find themselves

:34:39.:34:41.

fascinated by waiting for So what type

:34:42.:34:43.

of problems have you seen people come into Dean Street and say,

:34:44.:34:48.

listen, I need help with this? They realise they are not enjoying

:34:49.:34:58.

their sex lives, it causes anxiety, or they might spend three hours

:34:59.:35:02.

waiting for responses or trying to make something happen and realising

:35:03.:35:05.

at the end of those three hours they are feeling really anxious and

:35:06.:35:08.

uncomfortable and that's not using We want to support them to make this

:35:09.:35:10.

a functional tool, not a compulsive Back at the pub and the good news

:35:11.:35:21.

is that Andy's date has turned up. He will come in

:35:22.:35:26.

and he's always early, he comes in and he says to me, all right, this

:35:27.:35:30.

is the girl I'm seeing tonight. Then she'll arrive and he'll buy her

:35:31.:35:33.

a drink and I'll give him a bit of a Wink, she's all right,

:35:34.:35:37.

or she's not so good. And then about 20 minutes later,

:35:38.:35:41.

come for a second drink and I'll say, OK, give me a feel, how's it

:35:42.:35:46.

going? So throughout

:35:47.:35:48.

the night I will walk around and if he is successful or not, just

:35:49.:35:50.

before he leaves, he'll give me the thumbs up and the wink and the wave

:35:51.:35:54.

and I know it's on for the night. Very happy, really nice girl,

:35:55.:35:59.

got along well, definitely going to be a second date, I've already

:36:00.:36:03.

sorted it for next week. Yes, looking forward to

:36:04.:36:07.

seeing her again, sure. You two looked pretty

:36:08.:36:09.

content outside? Yeah, I mean,

:36:10.:36:11.

I did get my cheeky kiss! So again, another successful Tinder

:36:12.:36:14.

date for me. I think I'm going to stick

:36:15.:36:16.

at Tinder, Traditional dating is kind

:36:17.:36:18.

of a thing of the past. Do you think you will really

:36:19.:36:29.

find love on a dating app? Who knows, only time will tell, some

:36:30.:36:32.

of my friends have, fingers crossed! Later in the programme we'll be

:36:33.:36:37.

speaking to some people who use dating apps as well as others who

:36:38.:37:09.

have looked into the links between And if you want to watch or share

:37:10.:37:12.

the film you can find it A couple of comments coming in, that

:37:13.:37:40.

guy needs to drop that app. It removes the struggle of seeing who

:37:41.:37:44.

likes you. Another on Twitter, these dating apps are scary, I can imagine

:37:45.:37:48.

people getting into situations they're not comfortable with easily.

:37:49.:37:53.

Another on Twitter says seeing this makes me dmrad I am older than them

:37:54.:37:57.

and was single pre-app. Things seem to have to be instant now.

:37:58.:38:04.

Let's bring you more on that story we mentioned, a five-year-old girl

:38:05.:38:09.

may have been left for sometime in a crashed car alongside the dead

:38:10.:38:12.

driver. Our reporter is here. What else do you know at this stage?

:38:13.:38:17.

Well, emergency crews found the girl in the back of the car in a ditch in

:38:18.:38:23.

Staffordshire around 9. 30am on Sunday morning after being alerted

:38:24.:38:28.

by two cyclists. The man driving the car, the black Ford Fiesta had been

:38:29.:38:35.

there for sometime they believe. The West Midlands ambulance service had

:38:36.:38:39.

said that it was very foggy at the time those conditions very much like

:38:40.:38:43.

today, with the fog that was blanketing. The driver is believed

:38:44.:38:48.

to be 25 years old and a local man. We don't know his name yet and more

:38:49.:38:52.

importantly we don't know how he was related to the five-year-old, the

:38:53.:38:58.

passenger. Staffordshire Police have appealed for witnesses to the crash

:38:59.:39:03.

but at the moment they're trying to establish exactly what happened and

:39:04.:39:08.

what time this happened because as you say, the five-year-old girl was

:39:09.:39:10.

found sometime after this incident happened. Thank you very much.

:39:11.:39:18.

The bodies of more than 140 people who were killed when

:39:19.:39:20.

a Russian plane crashed in Egypt have been flown to St Petersburg.

:39:21.:39:23.

The Airbus A-321 broke up in mid-air before it came down

:39:24.:39:28.

in the Sinai Peninsula on Saturday, according to the head of

:39:29.:39:31.

An investigation into the cause is under way.

:39:32.:39:40.

In the last hour half at a news conference in Moscow, Metrojet

:39:41.:39:46.

airlines has said it was impossible for the plane to break up in the air

:39:47.:39:49.

because of a technical or pilot fault. They've also said the crew

:39:50.:39:52.

didn't make contact with the ground about problems with the plane during

:39:53.:39:53.

the flight. Julian Bray is an aviation analyst

:39:54.:39:55.

and joins us from Peterborough. He has been monitoring the press

:39:56.:40:03.

conference. What else has been said? Well, it's very interesting, isn't

:40:04.:40:06.

it? It started off as a very dull corporate press conference and it

:40:07.:40:09.

sounded to be a justification of what was happening. Then as you got

:40:10.:40:15.

into it, it suddenly became quite exciting in terms of media content

:40:16.:40:20.

because they said something went on out of our control, not normal

:40:21.:40:25.

break-up, there is an outside force. At this point Russian television who

:40:26.:40:30.

had been streaming the conference live suddenly went black and then

:40:31.:40:35.

the conference carried on, the tail apparently was repaired twice. Now

:40:36.:40:39.

that's not unusual, because these things do happen. They detect cracks

:40:40.:40:44.

or whatever so they replace the whole tail section. But it's been

:40:45.:40:49.

replaced twice. It is a leased aircraft, leased from an Irish

:40:50.:40:52.

leasing company. But technically they were giving the aircraft a

:40:53.:40:59.

clean bill of health. But they are suggesting there are dark forces out

:41:00.:41:02.

there and things have happened that are outside their control.

:41:03.:41:07.

Worryingly, they say there were no tick nickical reports or

:41:08.:41:13.

conversations with the aircraft -- technical, so this is cutting to a

:41:14.:41:18.

catastrophic event that cut systems, the smart money is on a device

:41:19.:41:22.

placed on board but that's pure speculation at the moment we will

:41:23.:41:27.

have to wait for the black boxes to be decoded. Right. You would take

:41:28.:41:33.

what they've said from that press conference, outside force being the

:41:34.:41:36.

key phrase, to lead you to believe that there was potentially a bomb on

:41:37.:41:42.

board? We can't rule anything out. Well, we can, we can rule out the

:41:43.:41:47.

fact that it wasn't a missile because you need a big missile to

:41:48.:41:57.

reach that plane and the insurgents locally have shoulder pads, shoulder

:41:58.:42:02.

mounted missiles up to about 14,000 feet, this was flying much higher.

:42:03.:42:05.

So we are confident that didn't happen. But everything else is still

:42:06.:42:10.

there for examination. But the key thing is we want a very factual

:42:11.:42:15.

report coming out of the examination of the black boxes because you have

:42:16.:42:20.

two, you have the voice black box and the data black box. The voice

:42:21.:42:25.

will give you two hours of material and the data will give you a good 24

:42:26.:42:30.

hours' worth. You will be able to piece together exactly what did

:42:31.:42:38.

happen to that aircraft. Right. How will it be able to piece together?

:42:39.:42:42.

If it was a bomb how will the voice black box and data black box help?

:42:43.:42:51.

Well, these units are designed to withstand extreme trauma, I will put

:42:52.:42:57.

it that way. You will find that there is a part on the right part of

:42:58.:43:04.

the unit in which are data discs and these are like discs that record

:43:05.:43:07.

everything. Like a stack of CDs, if you like. All the data is recorded

:43:08.:43:11.

in there in real-time while the aircraft is still operating.

:43:12.:43:14.

Obviously as soon as it crashes or it stops it just stops operating.

:43:15.:43:20.

Then people recover it, they're taken to a laboratory who have

:43:21.:43:27.

certain diagnostic tools and they will take the data and reconstruct

:43:28.:43:30.

exactly what happens, on the flight deck you will hear all the pilot

:43:31.:43:34.

conversations, co-pilot conversations, any communication

:43:35.:43:37.

with the ground, and it's all on a timeline. We will find out once and

:43:38.:43:42.

for all whether any conversations did take place. Also you will be

:43:43.:43:47.

able to gauge exactly what happened in the cabin areas and other

:43:48.:43:52.

operational areas because every time somebody presses a switch or opens a

:43:53.:43:56.

relay that will actually be recorded on the data stack. Understood. Thank

:43:57.:44:03.

you very much. Lots of you getting in touch about

:44:04.:44:06.

the interview at the beginning of the programme about a family of four

:44:07.:44:11.

orphaned siblings who have been awarded ?75,000 from their local

:44:12.:44:15.

authority, Liverpool, after they were effectively left to fend for

:44:16.:44:20.

themselves growing up almost 30 years ago. Someone on Twitter says

:44:21.:44:26.

heartbreaking but not unique. We should stop trusting corrupt social

:44:27.:44:30.

services. Thank goodness the kids triumphed. John tweets, I thought I

:44:31.:44:35.

had it hard, what an as stonishing story. Someone needs to answer for

:44:36.:44:38.

it. Another on Twitter says I don't

:44:39.:44:42.

think ?75,000 in compensation is nearly enough. Another says what a

:44:43.:44:49.

story, wow. Tim texts to say, the story is the most outrageous thing I

:44:50.:44:52.

have ever heard. Thank you. You know how to get in touch. You can e-mail

:44:53.:44:58.

or message me on Twitter. And on Facebook, as well. Time for the

:44:59.:45:02.

latest weather. Fog really is an issue for lots of

:45:03.:45:05.

people today. It is. A bad issue. At the weekend

:45:06.:45:13.

we saw problems with it too. It's probably atmospheric for Hallowe'en.

:45:14.:45:16.

But look at here at Heathrow and Manchester, we have delays with

:45:17.:45:18.

flights. It's mayhem on roads, as well. It

:45:19.:45:27.

really is dense. It's like thick pea soup as it's often known as.

:45:28.:45:33.

Low tufrp tures and the sun is weak -- temperatures.

:45:34.:45:40.

We had a breeze out there, we wouldn't see problems like this with

:45:41.:45:45.

almost zero visibility in some places. It has been bad. Yesterday,

:45:46.:45:50.

it was bad. But also we saw records being broken. Where it wasn't foggy

:45:51.:45:56.

it was sunny and very warm. The satellite picture behind me, this

:45:57.:45:59.

was yesterday's satellite. You can see where the fog was, showing up

:46:00.:46:02.

clearly here. If I run it through the course of the day it started to

:46:03.:46:07.

break up nicely, it lingered in places where we had very chilly

:46:08.:46:13.

conditions, but in western Wales, no wind and lots of sunshine and 22C

:46:14.:46:18.

and that actually is a November record for the time of year. If I

:46:19.:46:28.

click down, you can see here it was in Wales that saw this, breaking an

:46:29.:46:34.

old record in 1946 which was also set in North Wales. The average is

:46:35.:46:43.

12 so this is almost summer-like. It was a big contrast to 9C in the fog.

:46:44.:46:47.

How long will the fog stick around for? The next few days, but then we

:46:48.:46:52.

pick up more of a breeze. Things will improve. This is the travel

:46:53.:46:56.

board that I have now for the weather, further disruption likely

:46:57.:46:57.

to the airports. That fog isn't going anywhere fast.

:46:58.:47:05.

It is breaking up across parts of Wales and the sot west of England

:47:06.:47:09.

and parts of northern England and the northern half of Scotland doing

:47:10.:47:13.

well at the moment. That fog should get nibbled away from the edges

:47:14.:47:17.

through the course of the morning, into the afternoon, lingering on

:47:18.:47:23.

across central and eastern parts of York, down towards the south-east

:47:24.:47:29.

Midlands. Where it will remain chilly, temperatures just into

:47:30.:47:32.

dibble figures. Some sunshine across the south-east.

:47:33.:47:37.

-- double. We could make 20 again or even higher in one or two locations.

:47:38.:47:41.

We will have to keep tuned to the weather to see with the

:47:42.:47:46.

temperatures. Northern areas the fog will linger on through central and

:47:47.:47:49.

southern Scotland. Northern Scotland doing well into the afternoon. This

:47:50.:47:53.

evening and overnight that fog makes a return to many areas. You will

:47:54.:47:57.

notice more of a breeze picking up across the far south-west as low

:47:58.:48:03.

pressure begins here. It should be fog-free here: High pressure over

:48:04.:48:15.

the continent and barely any wind, it's been the main driving fact

:48:16.:48:21.

Forrest this fog. Heavy rain in Spain and Portugal will move north

:48:22.:48:27.

during the first part of Tuesday. Here quite wet through the day and

:48:28.:48:32.

breezy. Fog-free here. Showers getting to the south-east and the

:48:33.:48:35.

northern half of the country similar to how we have seen yesterday and

:48:36.:48:41.

today. Some fog, some sunshine and a mild day to come. That mild theme

:48:42.:48:47.

continues for the rest of this week. We start off dry with that fog

:48:48.:48:50.

problem but then the fog begins to move as it becomes unsettled and

:48:51.:48:54.

that's because we pick up areas of low pressure and it will turn

:48:55.:48:57.

windier and wetter to the latter part of the week.

:48:58.:49:08.

Hello, it's Monday, it's 10am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire.

:49:09.:49:10.

Welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

:49:11.:49:12.

How can the adoption process be sped up? Councils will be challenged to

:49:13.:49:23.

double the places of new families. Since 2011 we have seen a 72%

:49:24.:49:27.

increase in the number of children adopted but in the last two years we

:49:28.:49:31.

have seen a fall away of about half the number of children now being put

:49:32.:49:34.

forward to be adopted and part of that is to do with court judgments

:49:35.:49:38.

which have been misinterpreted by councils and others, but also we

:49:39.:49:42.

need to try to bear down on the delay that is still taking place

:49:43.:49:47.

when trying to match children. We will speak to parents who have been

:49:48.:49:50.

through the process about the changes they would like to see,

:49:51.:49:53.

and, as always, get in touch with your experiences.

:49:54.:49:56.

Shaker Aamer's home from Guantanamo Bay - but how is he

:49:57.:49:59.

We'll be talking to two people who've met him since his return.

:50:00.:50:03.

He does look a lot more than 14 years older than those pictures and

:50:04.:50:08.

I am sure that is confluence of his detention. He does look older but

:50:09.:50:14.

what was really striking is that same smile that you see in the

:50:15.:50:19.

pictures is absolutely there, and the warmth of his personality

:50:20.:50:24.

absolutely beams through. The determination, I think that is

:50:25.:50:26.

exemplified by what he did on the flight on the way back.

:50:27.:50:31.

And with hundreds of ways of meeting people online, I'll we becoming

:50:32.:50:34.

addicted to dating apps? A leading sexual health

:50:35.:50:37.

consultant tells us they should The bodies

:50:38.:50:39.

of more than 140 people killed in a plane crash in Egypt have been

:50:40.:50:50.

flown home to St Petersburg. The Metrojet Airbus crashed

:50:51.:50:53.

on Saturday in the Sinai Peninsula after taking off

:50:54.:50:57.

from the Egyptian Red Sea resort At a press conference in Moscow this

:50:58.:51:05.

morning, the airline said it would have been impossible for the plane

:51:06.:51:08.

to break up in midair because of a technical or pilot pulled. -- pilot

:51:09.:51:14.

fault. Thick fog is causing widespread

:51:15.:51:16.

travel disruption across the UK Passengers have been left stranded

:51:17.:51:18.

with many flights cancelled or Foggy conditions are expected to

:51:19.:51:23.

continue throughout the morning. The Met Office has issued

:51:24.:51:27.

a weather warning In Turkey, the governing AK party

:51:28.:51:40.

has scored a convincing victory in yesterday's Parliamentary elections,

:51:41.:51:42.

winning back the majority it lost just five months ago.

:51:43.:51:45.

Our correspondent Mark Lowen is in Ankara.

:51:46.:51:48.

Was this a surprise? It was, no opinion poll had pointed

:51:49.:51:56.

to such a convincing victory for the AK party, but what they have managed

:51:57.:52:00.

to do is capitalise on fears of insecurity and violence in recent

:52:01.:52:04.

weeks after a ceasefire with PKK Kurdish rebels broke down in July,

:52:05.:52:09.

sparking a wave of violence which consumed south-eastern Turkey, and

:52:10.:52:13.

it is that, three separate bomb attacks blamed on is it said, which

:52:14.:52:17.

have contributed to the climate of fear and insecurity, which rallied

:52:18.:52:21.

supporters behind the AK party to bring it back to a majority

:52:22.:52:24.

Government, which it had lost in June. Among the opposition, though,

:52:25.:52:29.

there will not be any cause for celebration. They fear that an

:52:30.:52:34.

emboldened AK party Government will go even further towards

:52:35.:52:37.

authoritarianism which he has demonstrated in recent years, that

:52:38.:52:44.

clamp-downs on freedom of expression will continue and that Turkey will

:52:45.:52:48.

continue its isolation from its allies. Real fears and splits now at

:52:49.:52:52.

the heart of Turkish society, but, like all open, president and again

:52:53.:52:56.

is been manned the West have to do business with -- President Taylor

:52:57.:53:03.

Bird again. Turkey is a vital country in this region and that is

:53:04.:53:07.

why he knows he has the support of his people, he knows he has a strong

:53:08.:53:12.

position to go on and move Turkey forwards, but there will be

:53:13.:53:15.

turbulent times ahead after the election.

:53:16.:53:22.

A man orphaned at the age of eight has called for an apology from his

:53:23.:53:26.

local authority after being abandoned and left to bring himself

:53:27.:53:33.

up. Tony Hawkins and his three siblings have been awarded ?75,000

:53:34.:53:38.

in compensation after his parents died in 1983 from accidental

:53:39.:53:42.

poisoning. We started pursuing these files

:53:43.:53:45.

seven years ago and they have repeatedly fobbed us off, it

:53:46.:53:50.

borders, and even after the award they have never directly approached

:53:51.:53:55.

us with an apology to say, we failed, we don't know why, but we

:53:56.:54:02.

hope it never happens again. The Australian Prime Minister

:54:03.:54:05.

Malcolm Turnbull has abolished the awarding of Knights and Dames under

:54:06.:54:09.

the honour system in the country. It was reintroduced in 2014 by his

:54:10.:54:14.

predecessor, Tony Abbott. The controversial decision to grant

:54:15.:54:17.

Prince Phillip a knighthood in January was widely seen as one of

:54:18.:54:20.

the factors which ended his term as leader.

:54:21.:54:22.

Friends and family will join over 1000 officers for the funeral of

:54:23.:54:25.

He was killed after being knocked down by a pick-up truck while

:54:26.:54:29.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Tim again.

:54:30.:54:37.

Yes, the cricket this morning, including Test Match

:54:38.:54:50.

We'll bring you that in a minute, but first to events in Sharjah where

:54:51.:54:54.

it's day two of the third and final test between England and Pakistan.

:54:55.:54:57.

England are batting as they try to chase down Pakistan's

:54:58.:55:00.

And they suffered an early setback - Moeen Ali out after scoring just 14

:55:01.:55:04.

But Alastair Cook and Ian Bell looked to have settled in nicely.

:55:05.:55:10.

This six from Bell the highlight of the morning session.

:55:11.:55:16.

After lunch, though, the partnership was broken.

:55:17.:55:23.

Cook out just one run short of his 50.

:55:24.:55:25.

And it's got worse for England since then.

:55:26.:55:27.

Joe Root, so often the hero, out shortly afterwards for just four.

:55:28.:55:30.

There's a couple of stories to bring you from yesterday evening too,

:55:31.:55:43.

including a great win for England's rugby league team last night,

:55:44.:55:45.

as they beat the world's number one side New Zealand in Hull.

:55:46.:55:50.

Skipper Sean O'Loughlin's late try helped secure a 26-12

:55:51.:55:52.

victory in the first of three matches between the two sides.

:55:53.:55:55.

The second test is at London's Olympic stadium on Saturday.

:55:56.:55:59.

And Nico Rosberg won the Mexico Formula One Grand Prix,

:56:00.:56:03.

beating his Mercedes team mate and newly-crowned world champion

:56:04.:56:05.

It was Rosberg's fourth win of the season and lifts him up

:56:06.:56:09.

Aston Villa are expected to announce Remi Garde

:56:10.:56:17.

as their new manager today, having sacked Tim Sherwood last week.

:56:18.:56:20.

Garde played for Arsenal in the 1990s, and was part

:56:21.:56:22.

of Arsene Wenger's squad that won the league and cup double in 1998.

:56:23.:56:26.

More recently, he's been manager of French club Lyon, and has also

:56:27.:56:29.

Villa, who are bottom of the table, play Spurs

:56:30.:56:37.

And if the newspapers are to be believed, Chelsea may soon be

:56:38.:56:42.

With his team currently struggling, Jose Mourinho refused to speak to

:56:43.:56:46.

the press after last week's defeat to West Ham.

:56:47.:56:49.

He did turn up this week following another loss,

:56:50.:56:51.

and it's catching, if the Test Match Special team are anything to go by!

:56:52.:57:12.

Lets get the thoughts of Geoffrey Boycott. I have got nothing to say.

:57:13.:57:19.

First time ever, I have got nothing to say. England must be more

:57:20.:57:23.

attacking in their batting? Ours but nothing to say. Phil, good to see

:57:24.:57:29.

you, you look and fraud by the play. England in a decent position? I have

:57:30.:57:33.

got nothing to say. But when you look at the outfield and the pitch,

:57:34.:57:37.

will it last five days? Nothing to say. There you have it, the thoughts

:57:38.:57:45.

of Phil Tufnell, Michael Vaughan and Geoffrey Boycott, who had nothing to

:57:46.:57:49.

say. Which is rare, the Geoffrey

:57:50.:57:53.

Boycott! They did a very good impression of Jose Mourinho, who

:57:54.:57:57.

really needs to grow up, doesn't he?

:57:58.:57:59.

He is not a happy boy at the moment, he has never been put under

:58:00.:58:03.

this kind of pressure in his whole career, he was at Porto, Inter

:58:04.:58:07.

Milan, Real Madrid, winning things, even when they were not playing well

:58:08.:58:10.

they were towards the top of the table, but Chelsea have lost so many

:58:11.:58:15.

games this season, and as defending champions, so it has been a shock.

:58:16.:58:19.

He has blamed the referees and everyone else, it has been frosty,

:58:20.:58:23.

that is how the BBC website describes the interview, a frosty

:58:24.:58:27.

interview, and he walked out halfway through, which is why you saw

:58:28.:58:30.

Michael Vaughan take a walk as well! He is not happy, and he is in

:58:31.:58:35.

all of the newspapers, the back pages covering potential replacement

:58:36.:58:39.

for him. We are still not sure whether he will be staying or going

:58:40.:58:42.

from Chelsea. Fabio Capello one of the papers

:58:43.:58:46.

suggesting is keen to take over. Thank you for joining

:58:47.:58:52.

us this commentary morning. Welcome to the programme if you've

:58:53.:58:54.

just joined us - we're on BBC Two Lots of you getting in touch about

:58:55.:59:02.

our film on dating apps. Lydia says, you are being very critical on

:59:03.:59:06.

dating apps. I don't think we are being that critical. She said two

:59:07.:59:10.

off her friends were married using dating apps. Another viewer says she

:59:11.:59:20.

met her partner on a dating app, you 60 and she is 54 so it is not just

:59:21.:59:24.

for young people. Another getting married to someone she met on a

:59:25.:59:28.

dating apps next year. Congratulations.

:59:29.:59:28.

Do get in touch on the usual ways. Texts will be charged

:59:29.:59:30.

at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch

:59:31.:59:33.

the programme online wherever you are via the BBC news app or

:59:34.:59:35.

our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria, and you can also subscribe to all

:59:36.:59:38.

our features on the news app, by going to 'add topics' and

:59:39.:59:41.

searching 'Victoria Derbyshire'. How can

:59:42.:59:43.

the adoption process be speeded up? David Cameron's due to

:59:44.:59:45.

announce new measures today. As well as cutting red tape,

:59:46.:59:47.

English councils will be challenged to double the number

:59:48.:59:49.

of children placed with new families The average wait for children

:59:50.:59:52.

before they move in with their new family is 17 months, which the

:59:53.:00:02.

Government says isn't fast Edward Timpson is the

:00:03.:00:04.

Children's Minister. We have seen a 72% increase of the

:00:05.:00:16.

children adopted but in the last few years we have seen a 4 way of the

:00:17.:00:19.

numbers of children being put forward to be adopted, partly

:00:20.:00:26.

because of court judgments being misinterpreted by councils, but we

:00:27.:00:28.

also need to bear down on the delay is taking place with matching

:00:29.:00:32.

children. We need to try to get them in their placement earlier through

:00:33.:00:35.

something called fostering for adoption, or concurrent planning,

:00:36.:00:39.

and we have seen 500 children benefit from that this year but we

:00:40.:00:42.

think councils could do better, and the challenge for them today is to

:00:43.:00:46.

double those figures so that more children go into their loving,

:00:47.:00:48.

stable family homes more quickly and get all of the benefits we know that

:00:49.:00:50.

can bring. Hugh Thornbery is Chief Executive

:00:51.:00:51.

of Adoption UK. Karen Goodman worked for over 35

:00:52.:00:54.

years with children's adoption as a social worker and now is

:00:55.:00:57.

professional officer at the British Greg adopted

:00:58.:01:00.

a young boy six years ago and just a few years ago he discovered that

:01:01.:01:04.

he was himself also adopted. He doesn't want us to use

:01:05.:01:07.

his surname to protect And 'Paul' adopted three sisters

:01:08.:01:09.

aged two, three and four in 2013. We have changed his name and we're

:01:10.:01:16.

blurring his face to also protect Greg, how long did the process take

:01:17.:01:28.

for you? The actual adoption process to be approved took about six months

:01:29.:01:33.

which was a fairly good time. I think we were lucky in terms of the

:01:34.:01:38.

court date at the to be rubberstamped, it fitted in with the

:01:39.:01:41.

six months. If you miss that date, or the court might not be sitting

:01:42.:01:45.

for another couple of months, so you sort of miss out on that. But the

:01:46.:01:51.

process was ridiculous in terms of the social worker would come out for

:01:52.:01:55.

the first visit, and would ask you lots of questions. Then go away and

:01:56.:02:01.

a month back, would come back and ask you the same questions to myself

:02:02.:02:07.

and my partner at the time but why couldn't they have asked us on the

:02:08.:02:13.

first visit? We had lots of visits and then they wanted to see our

:02:14.:02:17.

birth daughter, why not see my birth daughter on the first visit, as

:02:18.:02:22.

well? It delayed it and delayed it. I felt this six-month process could

:02:23.:02:25.

easily have been brought down to two months. Paul, from beginning to end

:02:26.:02:32.

how long? From beginning to end, to the point our children were living

:02:33.:02:37.

with us was four months. So that is really quite speedy. Incredibly

:02:38.:02:42.

quick. How did your social workers manage that when we are told the

:02:43.:02:49.

average is about 17 months? We were identified very, very early on at

:02:50.:02:54.

our preparation group for a group of three that we were looking for and

:02:55.:03:00.

the match was made very, very quickly for us. Ours was sped up to

:03:01.:03:05.

make sure that we were at the point of being ready for adoption,

:03:06.:03:09.

approved and matched for when my eldest, who would have been four at

:03:10.:03:14.

the time, was then able to go to school from September. So we were

:03:15.:03:19.

pushed through at a very quick rate so that we had time of our daughters

:03:20.:03:23.

in August to form that initial bond so she was ready to start with the

:03:24.:03:30.

rest of her school in the September. So, yeah, it was incredibly quick.

:03:31.:03:38.

OK. Let's bring in Hugh Thornbery today. The measures today, all

:03:39.:03:44.

adoption services to be merged into regional bodies so children can be

:03:45.:03:49.

matched more quickly. How much, if that all happens, how much will it

:03:50.:03:54.

speed up the process? Speeding up the process is important we know

:03:55.:03:56.

delay is harmful for children and we have seen the process improve over

:03:57.:04:00.

the last couple of years. So decisions are taken in a more timely

:04:01.:04:04.

way. However, we have seen a big drop-off in the number of children

:04:05.:04:09.

for whom adoption is the right decision, so we have had an

:04:10.:04:13.

overreaction to court cases placed in September 2013 which have led to

:04:14.:04:16.

a big drop in the number of children coming forward to adopt and some

:04:17.:04:19.

measures announced today aim to tackle that which is a good thing.

:04:20.:04:24.

OK. Do you think it's a good thing for the process to be speeded up,

:04:25.:04:28.

Karen Goodman? Nobody wants to see delay but there are concerns that

:04:29.:04:32.

the process will just be looked at from a perspective of speed, rather

:04:33.:04:38.

than thoroughness and making sure that the assessment processes are as

:04:39.:04:41.

indepth as they must be and that children are placed in their

:04:42.:04:46.

absolutely the best and correct placements and that doesn't

:04:47.:04:49.

necessarily involve speed. Do you accept the point that he felt he was

:04:50.:04:54.

being asked the same sorts of questions on several visits from

:04:55.:04:57.

Greg? Greg will have seen one part of the process, from his

:04:58.:05:00.

perspective. But meanwhile the social worker is doing a number of

:05:01.:05:06.

other checks, making inquiries, talking to different people,

:05:07.:05:08.

organising panels, preparing reports for panels. It's a long and

:05:09.:05:13.

complicated process. He will just see one part of that. He did

:05:14.:05:17.

experience the same questions being asked. Yes. Sometimes you have is to

:05:18.:05:22.

ask things a few times. Do you? Yes, it's very important that the process

:05:23.:05:30.

is given the time to mature. Did your answers change Greg when you

:05:31.:05:32.

were asked the same questions? Not really. I understand there has got

:05:33.:05:37.

to be, what potential adopters have to realise is the fact that just

:05:38.:05:42.

because they ring up whoever the local council, whether they're

:05:43.:05:45.

thinking of adopting, doesn't mean the following week they'll get a

:05:46.:05:49.

child. If you get approved doesn't mean you can't pull out of that

:05:50.:05:52.

process. Yes, it's a waste of time, but if you are not ready to adopt,

:05:53.:05:57.

then don't adopt. I think with the case of my son, my son was taken

:05:58.:06:04.

into care on his first day of birth. He was with the same Foster parents,

:06:05.:06:09.

fantastic Foster parents for 18 months. He had an amazing 18 months

:06:10.:06:14.

with these. But there was a, will he go back to the birth mother, will he

:06:15.:06:18.

go out for adoption? It wasn't a case of me being approved or not

:06:19.:06:22.

because we ended up with him further down the process. It was a case of

:06:23.:06:26.

he was put into care and kept in care because they weren't sure was

:06:27.:06:29.

he going to be adopted or go back to the birth parents? It was clear from

:06:30.:06:34.

day one he was never going to go back to the birth parents. There is

:06:35.:06:41.

that delay, as well. What do you, in terms of becoming an adopted parent

:06:42.:06:45.

what are the criteria? Well, it's very broad. We managed to dispel a

:06:46.:06:49.

lot of the myths about who can't adopt. The important thing is that

:06:50.:06:55.

people have the right motivation, that they have the capacity, the

:06:56.:06:59.

capability to parent well and one of the things we must not forget is 71%

:07:00.:07:04.

of children adopted from care have been seriously abused before coming

:07:05.:07:07.

into the care system, they will have needs that will endure for years.

:07:08.:07:10.

The right support needs to be there to support the parents adopting

:07:11.:07:15.

them, and parents also need to understand that these children

:07:16.:07:17.

aren't general run of the mill children, they do have issues that

:07:18.:07:21.

come from their past abuse and will need careful parenting to help them

:07:22.:07:23.

move on. Thank you all very much. He was determined to leave

:07:24.:07:32.

Guantanamo Bay with his integrity intact and he has absolutely done

:07:33.:07:34.

that - the words of one of of the doctors who treated Shaker Aamer

:07:35.:07:38.

hours after he landed in Britain. The 48-year-old British resident was

:07:39.:07:41.

held at the US detention facility for nearly

:07:42.:07:44.

14 years without charge of trial David Nicholl,

:07:45.:07:49.

a consultant neurologist, told us that Mr Aamer was given an

:07:50.:07:52.

overdose of a strong anti-malaria drug when he first arrived

:07:53.:08:00.

at Guantanamo Bay - even though Mr Nicholl, who has campaigned

:08:01.:08:03.

for Shaker Aamer's release, explained what condition he was

:08:04.:08:12.

in when he first met him. When I met him I was really struck

:08:13.:08:17.

by his very positive demeanour. Just, not surprisingly,

:08:18.:08:21.

absolutely over the moon to see us. What was just striking,

:08:22.:08:23.

he sat us all down and just said, I need you to picture that I've

:08:24.:08:33.

just arrived from Mars and, because you need to understand that really,

:08:34.:08:46.

he has a complete lack of faith in all the health care professionals

:08:47.:08:50.

he met in Guantanamo, to the extent that, and this is really, my jaw

:08:51.:08:54.

dropped hearing this, he hadn't eaten or drunk

:08:55.:08:59.

at all, all the way from Guantanamo. All this talk about being in a posh

:09:00.:09:01.

jet flying back at the taxpayer's expense, that was actually the level

:09:02.:09:05.

of determination of this man. The first thing he wanted to do was

:09:06.:09:07.

to get back and see a doctor and have tests and investigations

:09:08.:09:11.

to make sure he was fit and well. And also he felt, I'm expressing

:09:12.:09:16.

his view here, he felt that he had been poisoned or things had been put

:09:17.:09:19.

in his food over the years and he really wanted to establish any

:09:20.:09:25.

evidential basis for the torture he had experienced through health

:09:26.:09:35.

care professionals, which just Was the reason he didn't eat or

:09:36.:09:36.

drink on the plane, on the journey No, I think it was more, he wanted

:09:37.:09:42.

to present himself in a way in which nothing had been touched, that

:09:43.:09:53.

the evidential trail was clear. That no one could argue that anyone

:09:54.:09:58.

had tinkered with the evidence It might seem crazy,

:09:59.:10:00.

but everything about Guantanamo is crazy and that was his passionate

:10:01.:10:12.

and absolutely firm held belief. Equally, I have to say,

:10:13.:10:15.

it's like all these things in a doctor-patient relationship, you're

:10:16.:10:17.

trying to explain what is reasonable So what I did say to him,

:10:18.:10:20.

because this is in the public record, it is known that

:10:21.:10:29.

when prisoners arrive at Guantanamo, that it was standard operating

:10:30.:10:32.

procedure that they were given overdoses of a drug called Mephaquin

:10:33.:10:34.

which is an antimalarial drug. It's a very controversial drug, it

:10:35.:10:37.

has been associated with psychosis None of the soldiers,

:10:38.:10:39.

no one else arriving in Guantanamo He was actually surprised I knew

:10:40.:10:46.

that but I said that, if we were to measure Mephaquin,

:10:47.:10:52.

we wouldn't detect it now He may have that belief

:10:53.:10:54.

but he just wants to have every investigation and possible almost

:10:55.:10:59.

as a medical legal matter to Hence not wanting to contaminate

:11:00.:11:06.

his body, if that is the right word, on the plane,

:11:07.:11:21.

by eating or drinking anything. Just on the Mephaquin,

:11:22.:11:23.

the antimalarial, is there any risk I only heard about this

:11:24.:11:26.

about a year ago. There was a freedom of information

:11:27.:11:29.

request to get these details. There is no reason at all to

:11:30.:11:32.

give someone Mephaquin in Cuba. Essentially,

:11:33.:11:41.

there is no malaria in Cuba. Staff, military staff that have come

:11:42.:11:46.

from the same regions as these detainees came from,

:11:47.:11:52.

were not given Mephaquin. None of

:11:53.:11:54.

the soldiers were given Mephaquin. And the dose they were given was

:11:55.:11:57.

essentially five times the therapeutic dose

:11:58.:12:00.

so highly likely to produce really What would be the motivation

:12:01.:12:03.

from a medical professional's point of view to give someone Mephaquin

:12:04.:12:08.

when there is no reason to? And really questions should be

:12:09.:12:11.

asked about who wrote that policy. Well, you may recall,

:12:12.:12:20.

this was in the news recently, about It can be a very useful drug

:12:21.:12:28.

in malarial areas. Can I ask you what Shaker Aamer

:12:29.:12:34.

looked like? The thing is, he does look quite

:12:35.:12:49.

different to the photographs you have seen already and that is

:12:50.:12:52.

because he is 14 years older. So he does look

:12:53.:12:56.

a lot older than those pictures. And I'm sure that's a consequence

:12:57.:12:59.

of his detention, basically. What was really striking was that

:13:00.:13:01.

same smile that you see in the And the warmth

:13:02.:13:09.

of his personality absolutely beamed And I have to say the determination,

:13:10.:13:14.

and that is exemplified by what he You can actually see, he is probably

:13:15.:13:22.

a bit of a pain in the ours! But that's actually what got him

:13:23.:13:28.

through. And I suppose in that,

:13:29.:13:29.

we are both quite similar! We've contacted the US Department of

:13:30.:13:42.

Defence to comment on those claims We can talk now to Clive

:13:43.:13:44.

Stafford-Smith, Shaker Aamer's Can you give us an insight into his

:13:45.:13:58.

state of mind? David Nicholls said it all. Shaker is Shaker. He is

:13:59.:14:03.

indomitable and he maintains his sense of humour. It was lovely to

:14:04.:14:07.

talk to him. It's such a joy to have a conversation with him here in

:14:08.:14:11.

Britain as opposed to in Guantanamo Bay. It's reported that he is likely

:14:12.:14:16.

to receive ?1 million in compensation from the British

:14:17.:14:19.

Government. Is that true and if so what is that for? Well, I don't

:14:20.:14:24.

know, that's not what I do. I am only licensed in America so I don't

:14:25.:14:30.

have anything to do with what happens here in Britain. We will

:14:31.:14:33.

certainly be suing the United States and I can tell you with almost 100%

:14:34.:14:37.

certainty he won't receive anything at all from the Americans, for 14

:14:38.:14:42.

years of torture and 14 years of detention without trial. Because of

:14:43.:14:47.

all these absurd legal rules that say that the Government can set up a

:14:48.:14:51.

rule that you can't sue them, no matter what they do to you. I think

:14:52.:14:57.

it's really important we bring that litigation as a matter of principle.

:14:58.:15:05.

With the extent of potentially what happened to Shaker Aamer at Bagram

:15:06.:15:10.

before being transferred to Cuba where it's alleged a British

:15:11.:15:13.

intelligence officer witnessed his head smashed against a wall, do you

:15:14.:15:21.

need a public inquiry for the extent of those allegations being made by

:15:22.:15:27.

Shaker Aamer to come out? That's the key, frankly Shaker's big interest

:15:28.:15:32.

in all of this is not that people should pay money although I dare say

:15:33.:15:35.

they probably ought to if you have been tortured all that time and it's

:15:36.:15:41.

not that people should be prosecuted or persecuted or whatever, he is

:15:42.:15:47.

absolutely firm that there needs to be an impartial and transparent

:15:48.:15:51.

inquiry because he says, look, we can't undo what what's happened to

:15:52.:15:54.

me but we can try to make sure that in future the rules are in place

:15:55.:15:57.

that other people don't have to go through this. You know, we sort of

:15:58.:16:02.

totally lost sight as a nation and certainly the United States did too

:16:03.:16:06.

of what our values are if we were really involved in all of that

:16:07.:16:09.

torture in Bagram. Thank you very much.

:16:10.:16:17.

We'll bring you coverage of the funeral for PC Dave Phillips,

:16:18.:16:21.

knocked down and killed by a pick-up truck while on duty on Merseyside.

:16:22.:16:27.

And there's been an explosion of online dating apps,

:16:28.:16:30.

but a leading sexual health consultant has told us he wants

:16:31.:16:33.

dating apps to do more to promote safe sex messages after a rise

:16:34.:16:36.

The manager at a Metrojet airline in Russia has denied the Airbus plane

:16:37.:16:57.

could have broken in midair over Egypt because of technical or pilot

:16:58.:17:02.

error. But a Kremlin spokesperson has warned against speculating over

:17:03.:17:09.

the course of the crash. The bodies of some of the people killed in the

:17:10.:17:16.

crash have been flown home to St Petersburg.

:17:17.:17:18.

Aviation analyst Julian Bray listened to what was said.

:17:19.:17:23.

They are suggesting there are dark forces out there and things have

:17:24.:17:28.

happened outside of their control. Worryingly, there are no reports of

:17:29.:17:40.

conversations with communications, so the smart money is on a device

:17:41.:17:44.

placed on board but that is pure speculation at the moment. We will

:17:45.:17:47.

have to wait for the black boxes to be decoded.

:17:48.:17:50.

Thick fog is causing widespread travel disruption across the UK

:17:51.:17:53.

Our correspondent Daniel Boettcher is at Heathrow Airport.

:17:54.:18:00.

How bad is it? At this airport they are waiting for

:18:01.:18:10.

the folk to believe did, -- waiting for the fog to be lifted, 10% of

:18:11.:18:16.

flights have been cancelled. Stansted say they have no problems

:18:17.:18:20.

and are taking diverted aircraft from other airports. Gatwick have

:18:21.:18:28.

low figures for us. There are problems at Belfast, Cardiff,

:18:29.:18:31.

Southampton, and it is not just the UK, the fog is causing problems in

:18:32.:18:34.

airports including Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Brussels as well. This is

:18:35.:18:40.

the second day the fog has caused problems and it means an aircraft

:18:41.:18:43.

and crews are out of position, causing more difficulties. There is

:18:44.:18:48.

still a weather warning in place from the Met office at the moment.

:18:49.:18:52.

We are told the fog is expected to start clearing later this morning,

:18:53.:18:56.

but at the moment it is causing problems not just for the flights

:18:57.:18:59.

but motorists as well, and they are being advised to allow extra time,

:19:00.:19:04.

to slow down and keep distance from the traffic in front.

:19:05.:19:05.

Thank you very much. A man who was orphaned at the age

:19:06.:19:08.

of eight has called for an apology from his local

:19:09.:19:11.

authority after being abandoned Tony Hawkins and his three siblings

:19:12.:19:13.

have been awarded around ?75,000 in compensation after his parents

:19:14.:19:23.

died We started pursuing these files

:19:24.:19:24.

seven years ago and they have repeatedly fobbed us off, ignored

:19:25.:19:30.

us, and even after the award they have never directly approached

:19:31.:19:34.

us with an apology to say, "We failed, we don't know why,

:19:35.:19:37.

but we hope it never happens again." Figures from the worlds

:19:38.:19:45.

of entertainment and sport have joined a cross-party

:19:46.:19:47.

campaign for increased funding of Over 200 names have signed an open

:19:48.:19:50.

letter to the Government, calling for mental health to be given the

:19:51.:19:54.

same priority as physical health. Let's catch up with all

:19:55.:20:02.

the sport now and join Tim. Thank you, here are the main

:20:03.:20:06.

sporting headlines: England's cricketers are battling to

:20:07.:20:09.

save the series against Pakistan. On day two of the third

:20:10.:20:11.

and final Test, they're currently Joe Root, Alastair Cook and

:20:12.:20:14.

Moeen Ali the men out. Former Arsenal player Remi Garde

:20:15.:20:19.

will be announced as Aston Villa's He'll be in the stands as Villa,

:20:20.:20:21.

who are bottom, take on Spurs New Zealand may have won

:20:22.:20:26.

the rugby union world cup but their rugby league team, who are

:20:27.:20:37.

also ranked number one in the world, A great victory completed

:20:38.:20:40.

by captain Sean O'Loughlin try. And it was victory for Nico Rosberg

:20:41.:20:44.

in last night's Mexico formula one He finished ahead of his Meredes

:20:45.:20:47.

team mate and newly-crowned world champion Lewis Hmailton, and is now

:20:48.:20:54.

up to second in the drivers' The funeral will take place later

:20:55.:20:56.

today for PC Dave Phillips. The 34-year-old,

:20:57.:21:04.

who had two children, was knocked down and killed by a pick-up truck

:21:05.:21:07.

while on duty on Merseyside. Our correspondent Ben Brown is

:21:08.:21:10.

outside Liverpool's Anglican cathedral,

:21:11.:21:13.

where the service is taking place. What is happening at the moment?

:21:14.:21:26.

Well, it is a faulty, chilly morning in Liverpool, and at the Anglican

:21:27.:21:32.

Cathedral, inside there now, the choir of them Greater Manchester

:21:33.:21:35.

Police force are rehearsing, they will be sinking during the service.

:21:36.:21:40.

2000 seats have been set out, it is expected by the family there will be

:21:41.:21:45.

2000 mourners here to remember the life of PC David Phillips. About

:21:46.:21:49.

1000 of those will be police officers, not only from here in the

:21:50.:21:54.

Merseyside police force but officers from right around the country will

:21:55.:21:57.

be coming here to pay their respects to this officer, 34-year-old Dave

:21:58.:22:04.

Phillips, killed in the Line Of Duty standing on the central reservation

:22:05.:22:09.

in the early hours of Monday the 25th of October, when he was hit by

:22:10.:22:14.

a pick-up truck and killed. He leaves a widow, Jen, and two young

:22:15.:22:19.

daughters, Abigail, who is seven, and so the, just three. One man has

:22:20.:22:25.

been charged with murder in the wake of that, he will face trial in due

:22:26.:22:33.

course in Preston. Two other people have been charged in connection with

:22:34.:22:37.

the death as well but today is about remembering the life of PC David

:22:38.:22:42.

Phillips and remembering the bravery of police officers every day they go

:22:43.:22:45.

on duty. The reverend leading the service is a priest from the Wirral

:22:46.:22:52.

who was a family friend of the Phillips family and has said that

:22:53.:22:55.

every time a police officer goes on duty, they are putting their lives

:22:56.:23:00.

at risk for the good of society. He said that today is about celebrating

:23:01.:23:04.

what was good about Dave Phillips' life. There will also be tributes

:23:05.:23:10.

from his sister, Hannah, during the service. She said shortly after he

:23:11.:23:15.

was killed that two girls have been left without a daddy, her mum and

:23:16.:23:20.

dad have been left without their only son, their oldest child, and

:23:21.:23:24.

she and her sister left without the Big Brother who always kept an eye

:23:25.:23:29.

on them. There will also be a Bible reading from Dave Phillips' best

:23:30.:23:33.

friend and a tribute from the Chief Constable of Merseyside, Sir John

:23:34.:23:38.

Murphy. As the cortege moved through the city centre, people from across

:23:39.:23:43.

Liverpool are expected to line the streets to remember him and also, of

:23:44.:23:46.

course, Hezbollah officers here on Merseyside.

:23:47.:23:48.

Can the explosion of online dating apps be linked to the recent rise

:23:49.:23:53.

A leading sexual health consultant has told us he

:23:54.:23:56.

wants dating apps to do more to promote safe sex messages.

:23:57.:24:02.

Plans to give the Government more power to find out what we're looking

:24:03.:24:06.

at on the internet will be published by the Government this week.

:24:07.:24:09.

Our political guru Norman Smith can explain more.

:24:10.:24:14.

This matters because it is about what power was the state house to

:24:15.:24:21.

snoop on its citizens, on you and me, to look at what we write in our

:24:22.:24:25.

e-mails, to look at what we are looking at on the Internet, to take

:24:26.:24:30.

a peek at the text messages we send. The Government's view is that

:24:31.:24:36.

the security services now need to move from the era of the telephone

:24:37.:24:42.

to the digital era, because, at the moment, the security services can

:24:43.:24:45.

monitor who I am calling on the blower, how long I speak to them,

:24:46.:24:49.

and, if they want to know what I am saying, they can apply for a warrant

:24:50.:24:53.

to listen to my conversations. What the Government is proposing is the

:24:54.:24:57.

same for the digital it were. So, for example, here are my e-mails.

:24:58.:25:02.

The state in the form of the police and security services will be able

:25:03.:25:12.

to see who I am sending e-mails to, when I sent them, but if they wanted

:25:13.:25:15.

to see what I had written they would have to apply for a warrant,

:25:16.:25:17.

similarly we look at the Internet, here we have the Guardian front

:25:18.:25:20.

page, they would be able to see I have visited the Guardian site but

:25:21.:25:23.

if they wanted to know what pages I had visited on it or what I had

:25:24.:25:30.

searched on it, they would have to apply for a warrant. That is the key

:25:31.:25:35.

thing, a warrant. Who will decide whether the security services should

:25:36.:25:38.

have a warrant? There are two arguments, should it be the

:25:39.:25:43.

politicians or the judges? If the politicians decide, the argument in

:25:44.:25:46.

favour of allowing politicians to decide if it is accountable, if a

:25:47.:25:51.

bomb goes off and a politician has not granted a warrant, they can be

:25:52.:25:54.

summoned before Parliament to explain why they have not done that.

:25:55.:26:00.

It is also more practical, if there is a fast-moving terrorist situation

:26:01.:26:04.

where security services need access to someone's e-mail quickly it is

:26:05.:26:08.

easier to get hold of the Home Secretary than to wake up a judge in

:26:09.:26:12.

his country home or something like that. It is also argued that it is

:26:13.:26:18.

just more appropriate, more transparent to have a politician

:26:19.:26:21.

because everyone knows who they are, but they don't always know who a

:26:22.:26:24.

judge is. The argument in favour of judges is

:26:25.:26:29.

that it is independent of the political process, and many

:26:30.:26:33.

politicians take the view that politicians should not have any role

:26:34.:26:39.

in deciding who snoops on us, it needs to be absolutely independent,

:26:40.:26:43.

so there is no crossover at all with the world of politics. It is also

:26:44.:26:48.

argued that granting a warrant is a legal process so obviously should be

:26:49.:26:53.

left to a judge. Lastly, foreign judges do this already. In the

:26:54.:26:56.

United States, warrants are granted by judges, but that is where the

:26:57.:27:01.

real argy-bargy is, who should decide who gets a warrant? Should it

:27:02.:27:07.

be the Home Secretary or a judge? Depending what answer Theresa May

:27:08.:27:12.

comes up with, it may well determine whether this legislation goes

:27:13.:27:15.

through, because many MPs are absolutely adamant they do not want

:27:16.:27:19.

her hands on this at all. They want it to be a judge, and if she says,

:27:20.:27:24.

no, I must have a role, then it is possible the Government will be

:27:25.:27:26.

defeated. I think it will be introduced on

:27:27.:27:31.

Wednesday, the legislation. Will we find out definitively what answer

:27:32.:27:35.

she has on Wednesday? Yes, we will. My gut instinct is we

:27:36.:27:40.

will get a hybrid compromise from her, which will involve, yes,

:27:41.:27:46.

judges, but also involve the Home Secretary. My feeling is what we are

:27:47.:27:50.

likely to see is that the initial request for a warrant would go to

:27:51.:27:53.

the Home Secretary because it would have to be taken quickly, so she

:27:54.:27:58.

could do that, but then that decision would be subject to a

:27:59.:28:02.

review by judges, in other words judges would have to take a look at

:28:03.:28:05.

her decision and say, yes, that is OK, no, it is not OK. The many

:28:06.:28:10.

politicians, that is not good enough, they want her out of the

:28:11.:28:14.

picture altogether, but my sense is she is reluctant to do that

:28:15.:28:19.

primarily because of argument of accountability and the need to act

:28:20.:28:22.

quickly. She does not want the security services left waiting

:28:23.:28:27.

trying to get hold of a judge in the middle of the night.

:28:28.:28:29.

Thank you very much, Norman Smith at Westminster.

:28:30.:28:31.

This morning we've been talking about the proliferation

:28:32.:28:33.

Their use has exploded over the last few years from Tinder, which is

:28:34.:28:37.

the most popular one in the UK, to Grindr for gay or bisexual men.

:28:38.:28:40.

There are now hundreds of them and, in a relatively short space of time,

:28:41.:28:44.

they've become the fourth most common way of meeting a partner.

:28:45.:28:46.

But a leading sexual health consultant

:28:47.:28:48.

is calling for dating apps to do more to promote safe sex messages.

:28:49.:28:52.

Peter Greenhouse claims such sites are fuelling a rise

:28:53.:28:54.

The latest figures from Public Health England show

:28:55.:28:58.

a 33% increase in cases of syphilis, with gonorrhoea up 19%.

:28:59.:29:08.

You should be able to turn over partners are a lot quicker with a

:29:09.:29:13.

dating app. The problem is the quicker you change partners, the

:29:14.:29:17.

more likely you are to get infections, you don't have to be a

:29:18.:29:20.

rocket scientist to work it out. Also, if you are keen to change

:29:21.:29:24.

partners quickly, having a dating app does not just tell you if

:29:25.:29:26.

somebody is available but exactly where they are to within the nearest

:29:27.:29:31.

few metres. You could be in a bar, put in your details into the app,

:29:32.:29:36.

swipe this way or that way and find somebody on the other side of the

:29:37.:29:40.

bar who is up for it, so that must increase the rate at which you

:29:41.:29:44.

change partner or find a new partner, and that in itself has got

:29:45.:29:46.

to increase the risk of sexually transmitted infections.

:29:47.:29:48.

With the growth of dating apps seemingly showing no

:29:49.:29:51.

sign of abating, Radio 1 Newsbeat's Rick Kelsey meets some people who

:29:52.:29:54.

His report contains some base language.

:29:55.:30:29.

Do you ever think you are spending too much time on this? I preferred

:30:30.:30:36.

the chase. How often do you take it through to the end point? Actually

:30:37.:30:45.

getting laid? Yes. I have never gotten laid from one. So you are on

:30:46.:30:56.

these 46, seven hours a day... Window shopping. You look

:30:57.:31:05.

surprised? I am, a little bit! I should take it as a massive hit, a

:31:06.:31:10.

red light, white using this if you were not enjoying it? But I am, at

:31:11.:31:15.

the same time. I have had enough of guys my age had nothing to give me

:31:16.:31:19.

physically, emotionally or materialistic, so I thought I would

:31:20.:31:22.

give it a go and there are some pretty decent guys.

:31:23.:31:29.

Clover uses an app called Seating Arrangement which many women use to

:31:30.:31:34.

meet guys who will give them presents. She keeps much of what she

:31:35.:31:38.

is given in a room at her parents' house. Look at this! What is in the

:31:39.:31:47.

bag? All kinds of stuff, girl stuff, lingerie, clothes, jewellery, bags,

:31:48.:31:52.

Perkins, stuff like that. What is it about the setup of an app like that

:31:53.:32:00.

that interest you? It was not for chavvy people, most apps anyone can

:32:01.:32:04.

go one but this one has a standard, they are where they want to be in

:32:05.:32:08.

life and just want to have fun now. Because of what you are getting, is

:32:09.:32:14.

there an expectation of sex? Sometimes, sometimes. But they are

:32:15.:32:18.

usually quite forward with that, they usually say it straightaway,

:32:19.:32:22.

because of that is what they want, it is what they want. But if it is

:32:23.:32:26.

not what I want, it is not what I will do because it is not what I

:32:27.:32:32.

want. Marianne uses a dating app to look

:32:33.:32:35.

for specific men, giving her control in the search for a husband. There

:32:36.:32:40.

is no point using other apps because I have two marry a Muslim guy, and I

:32:41.:32:47.

don't want to be wasting my time. I thought I would give it a try. Try

:32:48.:32:54.

my luck, see what happens! You are worried about your family finding

:32:55.:32:58.

out you were on an app? Yes, my sisters know because they are laid

:32:59.:33:03.

back and modern. But if my dad realised I would on there, he would

:33:04.:33:07.

be like, what the hell?! I could not say, dad, I have met my 'the one' on

:33:08.:33:18.

a dating app, I would have to make a a story, I met him through a friend

:33:19.:33:22.

of a friend, old school. You can watch that story on the

:33:23.:33:23.

radio ones big website. Let's talk about this some more with

:33:24.:33:28.

Cary James, who is an expert in sexual health at the

:33:29.:33:31.

Terrence Higgins Trust, a charity which promotes awareness of HIV

:33:32.:33:33.

and sexually transmitted diseases. Er. What do you think of this link?

:33:34.:33:54.

There's reasons why sexually transmitted diseases are on the rise

:33:55.:33:57.

It's said there is a link between the rise and the rise in dataing

:33:58.:34:06.

apps and the use of them? I think we had a major problem with chlamydia

:34:07.:34:15.

before the apps start the. The behaviour of people on the apps is

:34:16.:34:18.

down to the individual. It's also about where do they learn how to

:34:19.:34:24.

navigate their own sexual behaviour? I think it's a real indication of

:34:25.:34:30.

the lack of sexual health information in schools and the kind

:34:31.:34:35.

- it's not compulsory in schools. If people don't know when they start

:34:36.:34:40.

having romantic relationships how to protect themselves and have a

:34:41.:34:42.

healthy sex life it's very difficult to navigate it once they've already

:34:43.:34:50.

had their sexual debut. I don't know why that would even explain the

:34:51.:34:54.

reasonable rise in STIs in the last year. I think there is a lot of

:34:55.:34:58.

reasons around subgroups. It's quite complicated. The thing that

:34:59.:35:03.

smartphone apps have changed is how sexual networks are created. Let's

:35:04.:35:07.

say in the old days people would go to a bar or nightclub and that was

:35:08.:35:11.

where their sexual network was based, in the late 90s that changed

:35:12.:35:17.

to websites. Now it's changed again. Every time there is this change in

:35:18.:35:22.

how people meet sexual partners there is this questioning how can we

:35:23.:35:27.

use tools to better educate people. This is the latest way this has

:35:28.:35:32.

happened. Sure. I still don't understand why there might be a rise

:35:33.:35:36.

in certain STIs because of a link with dating apps as opposed to

:35:37.:35:39.

meeting in a bar, what's the difference? I think if you look at

:35:40.:35:44.

the research they're talking about they're saying that people,

:35:45.:35:47.

especially the ones from America, they're saying people on dating apps

:35:48.:35:54.

are more likely to have an STI. Using a dating app is the quickest

:35:55.:35:57.

way to find sexual partners so people that want to find multiple

:35:58.:36:01.

sexual partners and find it in a quick and effective way are drawn to

:36:02.:36:05.

that. That group could well be the same group that would have had high

:36:06.:36:09.

levels of STIs before, they're using a new platform. So they already had

:36:10.:36:18.

before they began using the app. This is the latest way they've found

:36:19.:36:22.

they can find those partners. In terms of the lack of relationship

:36:23.:36:26.

and sexual education in schools that you talked about at the beginning,

:36:27.:36:30.

that seems to have been an issue in schools in this country for years

:36:31.:36:35.

and years. Are you saying it's still not detailed enough for teenagers?

:36:36.:36:40.

Absolutely not. There was a recent poll that showed four out of five

:36:41.:36:44.

young people would like to have sexual relationship education in

:36:45.:36:47.

schools but at least a third of schools aren't providing good

:36:48.:36:52.

quality SRE. That's why the trust continues to campaign that on sex

:36:53.:36:57.

and education be compulsory in all schools and it's age spes fk and

:36:58.:37:01.

starts before the time that people start having romantic relationships.

:37:02.:37:04.

It is up to teachers to do that rather than mums and dads? I think

:37:05.:37:08.

mums and dads have a definite role. Teachers have a definite role. I

:37:09.:37:13.

think community organisations like the trust can also support these

:37:14.:37:17.

structures in order to get the information on there, talk about how

:37:18.:37:20.

to have these conversations in a meaningful and impactful way. Thank

:37:21.:37:28.

you. Tell us if you can hear a similarity

:37:29.:37:32.

between the lyrics in these two tracks.

:37:33.:37:40.

# The players gonna play and the haters gonna hate

:37:41.:37:49.

# I am gonna shake, shake, shake it off

:37:50.:38:00.

# Haters gonna hate # Players gonna play

:38:01.:38:11.

# That was Taylor swift and another

:38:12.:38:32.

song you might never have heard of by Jesse Braham. He is suing Taylor

:38:33.:38:37.

Swift are to 27 million for allegedly stealing the lyrics. He is

:38:38.:38:53.

singing haters gon hate. It's the way he sings it. It's a slow jam. He

:38:54.:39:00.

sings haters gonna hate. They're two key phrases from that massive Taylor

:39:01.:39:08.

Swift song. He has said that he has copyright of those lyrics and is now

:39:09.:39:12.

suing her for around ?27 million. It's tricky ground for him to be

:39:13.:39:18.

suing her on this basis. Why? When it comes to lyrics there's very

:39:19.:39:21.

different things in copyright law. It has to be original. There has to

:39:22.:39:25.

be a substantial amount of the song that you have copied and it has to

:39:26.:39:30.

be actually copied. There is no similarity in the song. Musically.

:39:31.:39:36.

And a phrase like haters gonna hate, that's not an original phrase.

:39:37.:39:40.

That's been used in hip hop since the 90s or something. Whether he

:39:41.:39:44.

does have a claim, I mean, obviously in America things can go to court

:39:45.:39:47.

and then you are at the mercy of a jury who might decide against Taylor

:39:48.:39:52.

Swift, you never know. But at the moment it doesn't - it's shaky

:39:53.:39:58.

ground for him to go on. Also, he started off asking for a writing

:39:59.:40:02.

credit. And a selfie and he got turned down for that. Now he is

:40:03.:40:06.

going, like, full steam ahead with wanting this amount of money. Maybe

:40:07.:40:09.

Taylor's record company should have said of course you can have a selfie

:40:10.:40:15.

with her! But they kind of dismissed him effectively, now he has got even

:40:16.:40:19.

crosser? Yeah, we have - they've made no comment. From the interview

:40:20.:40:24.

he has given he said that he asked for a writing credit and they said

:40:25.:40:28.

you have no claim. They're not commenting on it. Thank you very

:40:29.:40:33.

much. Lots of you have got in touch this

:40:34.:40:37.

morning to comment on our interview with a man who was orphaned at the

:40:38.:40:43.

age of eight and effectively he and his three siblingings were abandoned

:40:44.:40:46.

by the local authority and left to bring themselves up because their

:40:47.:40:50.

parents died and they were awarded ?75,000 in compensation recently

:40:51.:40:53.

from Liverpool City Council and are asking for an apology from the local

:40:54.:40:56.

authority. He has called Tony Hawkins and he told us about his

:40:57.:41:01.

upbringing after his mum and dad died from accidental poisoning. It

:41:02.:41:07.

went from being just a normal family, siblings arguing and

:41:08.:41:10.

fighting and a very warm family environment, food on the table, all

:41:11.:41:17.

sitting around having our tea of an evening, to overnight just becoming

:41:18.:41:24.

chaotic. James quickly with that responsibility and the pressure for

:41:25.:41:30.

him became too much. His life went quickly downhill. Clare went to live

:41:31.:41:35.

with a distant family member, I say distant, one not close to us and

:41:36.:41:40.

within a week was back with us. She had learning disabilities so she

:41:41.:41:47.

struggled. For Stephen and I we were straightaway put in a position where

:41:48.:41:50.

we had to fend for ourselves, we realised it was down to us. We were

:41:51.:41:54.

only kids and we would have conversations like, can you feel

:41:55.:41:59.

that pain in your stomach? Like, yeah, it was hunger. What were you

:42:00.:42:07.

eating? There was nothing. The dog biscuits was, that's all there was

:42:08.:42:11.

in the kitchen so I would nibble on dog biscuits. If there was bread I

:42:12.:42:16.

would put something like vinegar or anything else normally in the

:42:17.:42:20.

cupboard, and we would repeatedly walk into the kitchen and open

:42:21.:42:23.

cupboards knowing there was nothing there to eat. Tony Hawkins talking

:42:24.:42:29.

earlier. Steve e-mailed to say their case cannot have been unique, I was

:42:30.:42:34.

in a bedsit at 15, I was left to fend for myself. I ended up with six

:42:35.:42:38.

months in custody, remember leased before my 16th birthday. There was

:42:39.:42:43.

no school and I ended up on a YTS for the unemployed. Another tweet,

:42:44.:42:48.

pursuing a negligence claim will force the council to give the

:42:49.:42:51.

answers they're holding back from giving. Louise e-mails to say, I

:42:52.:42:56.

feel for Tony and his siblings having no answers. I have memories

:42:57.:42:59.

of being in different homes when I was young but those memories are

:43:00.:43:03.

blurred. I can't get answers either. It makes me feel like a part of my

:43:04.:43:07.

childhood doesn't actually exist. I feel frustrated and I need the

:43:08.:43:10.

answers for closure. This text says, I am a practising

:43:11.:43:16.

social worker and I am dismayed by the ?75,000 in compensation to this

:43:17.:43:20.

family. 30 years ago social work was in a very different place.

:43:21.:43:23.

Thankfully all public services have evolved and children and the public

:43:24.:43:28.

are much better protected. I am disgusted this compensation claim

:43:29.:43:31.

seems to be purely financial driven and has resulted in the council

:43:32.:43:34.

paying the equivalent of two years' salary of a social worker that will

:43:35.:43:39.

result in children already at risk today receiving fewer resources. On

:43:40.:43:46.

the programme tomorrow we meet some people who defected from North

:43:47.:43:49.

Korea. Thank you very much for your company today. Have a good day. We

:43:50.:43:52.

are back tomorrow at 9. 9.15am.

:43:53.:44:00.

A man tells us how he and his siblings were left to fend for themselves after the death of their parents.

Are dating apps fuelling a rise in STIs? Watch our film and decide.

And we talk about the R&B singer who claims Taylor Swift pinched his lyrics for her hit Shake It Off.