15/01/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


15/01/2016

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day for primary school admissions in England,

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head teachers say the system is too confusing and risks

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Also ahead: They've signed up to donate,

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New figures reveal hundreds of bereaved relatives have prevented

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organs from being donated despite the wishes of a loved one.

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I've been waiting on the organ donor register list for a kidney for seven

:00:37.:00:40.

years now. One small step - Tim Peake gets

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ready for the first ever space walk Hello, welcome to the programme,

:00:43.:00:45.

we're on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until

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11am this morning. Head teachers are warning

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that the admissions system for primary schools in England risks

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harming children's education. On the deadline day for admissions,

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the National Association of Head Teachers says the process

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for entry is fragmented It's warning new schools are often

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set up in areas where they aren't needed, while other areas

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face huge shortages. We'll be debating the issue

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with our studio audience a little later - but we want

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to hear from you. If you've struggled to get your

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child into school then do Texts will be charged

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at the standard network rate. And, of course, you can watch

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the programme online wherever you are - via the BBC

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News app or our website. More than 500 families in the UK

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have refused to let a loved one donate their organs since 2010,

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even though their deceased relative NHS Blood and Transplant says it

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wants to change its approach by no longer formally seeking the consent

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of these families before organ Currently you have to register to be

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a donor unless you live in Wales. They are the first UK nation to make

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every adult a potential organ donor. Their system, known as presumed

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consent, means that people who do not want to donate

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their organs will have There are 22 million people

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on the NHS organ donor register and currently 6,578 people

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on the transplant waiting list. Joining the register is a legal

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decision but support from families is needed to fulfil

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the donor's wish. In 2014/2015 organ donation fell

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for the first time in 11 years. One of the most common organs

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needed is the kidney. Let's get more on this

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with our health correspondent Just explain exactly how it works.

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If somebody signs up and says they want to donate their organs, they

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die, the relatives still need to get involved in the process and can

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block it? Ultimately, when you are on the organ donor register it as a

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legally binding decision, that is what NHS Blood and Transplant really

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wants to drive home today and open up as a conversation. But these

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situations happen when somebody has had a very catastrophic injury or

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illness, they have -- may have been in a car crash or had a heart

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attack. You are looking at families having one of the worst days they

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possibly can. Clearly, when some are very upset and may not know about a

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decision someone might have made some time ago to go on the organ

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donor register, they find it out, it can be a shock and if it seems to

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compound their distress, although there is legal authority to go

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ahead, nobody wants to make the decision to go ahead with organ

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donation in the face of refusal by families. What is striking today is

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that the situation happens in quite a significant number of cases,

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around 100 families a year refused to support donation in this

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situation, that has stayed fairly stable in recent years. No NHS blood

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and transport says it may no longer formally seek the consent of

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families? -- now NHS Blood and Transplant says? They would

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underline that they already have consent. They see this as a more

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honest approach, a way of taking away the

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honest approach, a way of taking from these families at a very

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difficult time. Some families might still feel they are very opposed to

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this, in which case they would possibly be asked to sign a special

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form explaining why they are refusing in the face of this

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consent. Looking at the system in Wales which is different, we can

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perhaps learn lessons from the ultimate system, the presumed

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consent. The system only came into effect about

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six weeks ago. Everybody is presumed to be an organ

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donor in Wales unless they have the doubt. They had to have a big public

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education campaign. Scotland and Northern Ireland are very

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interesting looking at what has happened in Wales. The system is

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under pressure. Every year around 1000 people die because they have

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not had a transplant. There is a need to get these organs, bringing

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families along with the staff doing this very vital work.

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With us now is Sally Johnson, director of organ donation

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and transplantation at NHS Blood and Transplant.

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James Hardie is a specialist nurse in organ donation.

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He works with families through the consent process

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for Imperial College Hospitals in London.

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And we can speak to Nicola Pietrzyk and her ten-year-old son Matthew

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Matthew is on the transplant list awaiting a new kidney.

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Thank you very much for joining us. Sally, why are the wishes

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Thank you very much for joining us. deceased being overridden to the

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Thank you very much for joining us. extent that they are? It is a really

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tough day for families. It is something that they did not expect

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on morning that they would have to make this decision, that they would

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be involved in the death of somebody that they loved. We know that the

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majority of families are proud to support there are littered' wish.

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There are a small number of families, about 100 year. It is

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usually because they did not know that there role to have wanted to be

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an organ donor. It comes as a complete surprise. On the worst day

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of your life to discover this is an additional shock is really hard to

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take in. What they don't always appreciate is that their relative

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has given legally valid consent to be an organ donor. We want to make

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that clear to them to try to make them understand that they don't need

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to make the decision, to take that virgin away from them, make it a bit

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easier and, really importantly, somebody wants to be an organ donor,

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we should try to make that happen -- to take that decision away from

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them. Could a family expressing a view be ignored, because legally the

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consent is already there? Sensitivities come into play. It

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consent is already there? that why it is not happening? We are

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dealing with human beings at a really, really tough time. Of course

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we are sensitive to how families feel. I need to be able to make sure

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that people like James and our other specialist nurses have the tools to

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represent the voice of the donor who wanted to save someone else's life.

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Why ask the families if it adds to pressure at a very difficult time

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and they don't have to give consent, why? We need to involve families in

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the process. We don't know what risk those organs might pose to the

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recipient. The only way we can really find out some of that

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information about people's lifestyle, their behaviour, we have

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to work closely with families to find out whether the organs are safe

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to use. It happens the other way round, sometimes someone who had not

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volunteer to have their organs donated, the family would say, we

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are happy to go ahead? Absolutely. Lots of times, 60% of families

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donate to organ donation. Some of those will be people on the

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register, some people who have never discussed it with their family, but

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the families say, you know, that person was the sort of person who

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would have wanted to help others, we are happy to support that. James,

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you are a specialist nurse working with families through the consent

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process. Talk as too late. You need to be incredibly sensitive in how

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and when you raise it, and it has to be raised quickly? Yes, as Sally

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says, people who have become organ donors have suffered from sudden

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catastrophic illnesses like a heart attack, road traffic accident or

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brain haemorrhage. Often the request for organ donation is taking place

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as little as an hour or less after they had been told that their loved

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one has died or is likely to die. It is a very sensitive conversation

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that we undertake in collaboration with intensive care colleagues to

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try to ascertain how we will move forward. Why do people say no when

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they know the loved one had said yes in life? It is very difficult to

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fully appreciate and understand those reasons. The timing is very

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challenging for families. This is not a decision they are being asked

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to make in a normal state of mind. It is a highly and shoes and

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stressful time. As Sally said, not knowing what your loved one wanted

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places an additional pressure on you, which is why we encourage

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people, if they have signed up for the organ donor register, is to make

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sure that their relatives are aware. Let's bring in Matthew Ebden Nicola

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Pietrzyk, Matthew is ten, how long have you been on the transplant

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Pietrzyk, Matthew is ten, how long waiting for a new kidney? How long

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has he been waiting, Nicola? Seven and a half years. What has that been

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like? Torture. You are waiting everyday for a phone call that we

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feel will probably never come. Matthew, you are having dialysis

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right now, aren't you? You needed for five hours today? Year, I am

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having to have it for five hours today. What does that mean for you?

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You are ten, presumably you want to run around and you have to be

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conducted to this machine quite a lot of the time? What is it like for

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you? It is really boring and sad that I can't play out with my

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friends on my street after school. But, like... Unfortunately we have

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lost the sound with Matthew and Nicola, we will try to fix the

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technical issues and go back to them as soon as we can. An example of

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people who are waiting and knowing at any moment they might get that

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call and then had to spring into action. Examples like that are

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poignant. It is such a personal decision deciding whether to opt in

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or out and what happens with relatives? Wales has this different

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system, what do you figure is the best system? At day -- we are

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watching closely, doing our best. It took Wales several years to bring in

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the new system but it can't immediately... Legislation can't

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immediately solve the problem. People like Matthew needs an organ

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today, he can't wait. We need everybody to think about being a

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donor, record their wishes and talk to the family. I mentioned how it

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can work the other way around... Oh, I think we have them back. Join in,

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Nicola? I appreciate that bringing legislation and will not change

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things, but I think we need to change opinions so bad for the

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future we do not have this problem, and we are in a situation... SOUND

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FAILED. We have intermittent issues. We are talking about sometimes

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relatives deciding after a loved one We are talking about sometimes

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has died that their organs should not be donated -- should be donated,

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even if they had not given consent. You could argue that that is

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overwriting file wishes because maybe they did not consent because

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they did not want to. How engaged people with organ donation? People

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are getting more in caged and programmes like this help to spread

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the message. -- more engaged. The more we talk about it, the more

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likely it is that everyone has made a decision. At the end of the day,

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you can join the organ donor register to say you wish to be a

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donor, you can record an absolute refusal if that is what you want,

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but if you refusal if that is what you want,

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would say remember you are more likely to need an organ and be in a

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position to be able to give one, so we desperately need everybody to

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think about saying yes. It is perfectly easy to make your decision

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known. If you don't want to go online, you can do it via our call

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centre, or you can legally consent or refuse your consent by talking to

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your family. James, what difference does it make after somebody has died

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if they are an organ donor, in terms of how long a body has to be held?

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There are practical issues coming into play which is possibly one of

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the things that is off-putting when people are dealing with death? There

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is never any suffering by that person as a consequence of their

:15:11.:15:15.

decision to become an organ donor. I think the positives that come from

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that to the donor Bliss family are enormous. Annually we have a

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ceremony by the order of St John to recognise the amazing gift that a

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make, which brings the family of the donor great comfort to know that

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their loved one died and did something incredible, saving and

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changing the lives of others. Would they ever meet in person that the

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organs were donated to? Orchid Asian listed in the greatest

:15:45.:15:46.

confidentiality, but often the recipient at the donor will wish to

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send letters to each other -- organ donation is. They come to the

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specialist nurses, we ensure that confidentiality is maintained. Just

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going back to the process, what difference does it make up this be

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has died, if organs will be donated in terms of what happens to the

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body, and does it have any impact on time frames that happen after death?

:16:14.:16:20.

People are often concerned that it might delay a funeral. Once somebody

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has died and organ donation has been agreed as the way forward, we call

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in a retrieval team. They will retrieve the organs just like any

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other operation, really. Then our specialist nurses perform last

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officers, make sure that the body is cared for and is ready to be seen by

:16:46.:16:49.

the families when it is returned to them, if that is what they want. One

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person says families have no right to block the donation, they would

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not block their inheritance, would they? Another person says, families

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should not be able to veto what position and adult made. -- what

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decision an adult mode. Another person says, the rest of the UK

:17:15.:17:22.

needs to follow Wales in terms of consent, she says she has cystic

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fibrosis and she needs help to lead a normal life. Another person says

:17:26.:17:35.

it is the same as contesting a will. We can go back to Nicola and

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Matthew. We have had trouble talking to you, I don't know if you have

:17:40.:17:43.

been able to hear much of the discussion, but you said that you

:17:44.:17:45.

would like everywhere to follow the example of Wales with a system where

:17:46.:17:52.

people have got to opt out. What about the impact on a family like

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yours if someone... If an organ donation comes through? What people

:17:59.:18:05.

don't realise, Matthew Elliott asked in use has relied on a machine every

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single day -- Matthew has relied. He has relied on a machine to keep him

:18:12.:18:16.

alive every single day. Such a shame, we are having technical

:18:17.:18:22.

difficulties, so frustrating. Nicola donated one of her own kidneys to

:18:23.:18:27.

Matthew, but it did not work, unfortunately, so they are still

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waiting and hoping that they will get the call one day. Thanks for

:18:30.:18:39.

joining us. Please keep your thoughts coming in. Still to come,

:18:40.:18:41.

if you eat a bar of chocolate, how long do you need to exercise to burn

:18:42.:18:47.

off the calories? We look at new food labels which will tell you

:18:48.:18:48.

exactly that. And as the deadline runs out

:18:49.:18:51.

for primary school applications, we discuss the pressure put

:18:52.:18:53.

on parents and schools to get children into their

:18:54.:18:57.

preferred school. BT has been given final approval to

:18:58.:19:10.

take over the mobile phone operator EE, in an estimated deal worth ?12.5

:19:11.:19:13.

billion. Head teachers demand action to ease

:19:14.:19:16.

the pressure on school places in England - on the deadline day

:19:17.:19:18.

for primary school admissions. Three arrests over the Indonesia gun

:19:19.:19:23.

and bomb attacks that killed two people - so-called Islamic State

:19:24.:19:24.

says it was behind it. Here in the UK - the NHS

:19:25.:19:28.

changes its policy on organ donation to cut the numbers of bereaved

:19:29.:19:31.

families blocking the use of organs from people who'd given

:19:32.:19:34.

their consent to the procedure. Matthew has been waiting now seven

:19:35.:19:43.

and a half years, you are waiting every day for a phone call that we

:19:44.:19:45.

feel probably will never come. Anglican leaders signal

:19:46.:19:49.

their continued opposition to gay marriage by imposing sanctions

:19:50.:19:52.

against the US Episcopal Church, Major Tim Peake prepares

:19:53.:19:54.

for the walk of his life. He'll undertake an historic six hour

:19:55.:20:03.

space walk starting at lunchtime. Let's catch up with all the sport

:20:04.:20:07.

now and join Ore Oduba. How are England's cricketers getting

:20:08.:20:10.

on in South Africa this morning? They are doing a bit better, South

:20:11.:20:26.

Africa are now all out, 313, but the hosts have added 83 runs for the

:20:27.:20:32.

last three wickets, and so England would have hoped to have got them

:20:33.:20:36.

out for a little bit less than that. England are now trying to get back

:20:37.:20:41.

to par in that Test match. England are leading 1-0 in the four match

:20:42.:20:47.

series. We are going to be talking tennis, the draw has been made for

:20:48.:20:49.

the first grand slam of the tennis, the draw has been made for

:20:50.:20:54.

the Australian open, Andy Murray will begin against the aid senior

:20:55.:21:01.

German, Alexander Spero -- 18-year-old German. Andy Murray has

:21:02.:21:07.

made the final four times in Melbourne, but lost them all, so he

:21:08.:21:11.

is hoping for fifth time lucky. Johanna Konta has been given a tough

:21:12.:21:18.

tour against Venus Williams, the eighth St, so that is a very tricky

:21:19.:21:21.

start for her. The tournament begins on Monday morning -- the eighth

:21:22.:21:28.

seed. Ronnie O'Sullivan and Ross Hawkins are into the semifinals of

:21:29.:21:32.

the Masters in the snooker. Thanks for joining us. The Health Secretary

:21:33.:21:39.

now has been speaking. The Health Secretary says he cannot

:21:40.:21:42.

give an "absolutely guarantee" all accident and emergency

:21:43.:21:45.

departments will remain open when doctors go on strike

:21:46.:21:47.

again next month. Jeremy Hunt says the government

:21:48.:21:49.

was "busting a gut" and "hoped" Talks with the BMA at ACAS

:21:50.:21:51.

will continue today., and he hopes it would not be

:21:52.:21:55.

necessary to impose a new contract He has been talking after the

:21:56.:22:05.

strike. Yes, you might remember there were plenty of medics who

:22:06.:22:08.

thought Jeremy Hunt was not as visible as he might have been in

:22:09.:22:12.

recent days, not doing as many interviews as they would have hoped,

:22:13.:22:16.

but he was everywhere this morning. He has a good manner for this, he

:22:17.:22:21.

has the air of not a brutal minister, but more of a disappointed

:22:22.:22:31.

father, who is sure you will come round

:22:32.:22:31.

father, who is sure you will come that he will get his way. And that

:22:32.:22:36.

will be emergency care, because the difference if the next strike goes

:22:37.:22:40.

ahead, that will be withdrawn by junior doctors, as well. Very

:22:41.:22:45.

gently, in that way of his, he is pointing out that it is still

:22:46.:22:50.

possible that in some places in England, accident and emergency

:22:51.:22:53.

services might have too close for the day, and this is what he told me

:22:54.:22:55.

earlier. We hope that every A department

:22:56.:23:03.

will be able to open. At the moment the signs

:23:04.:23:03.

are that they probably will. We are going through an exhaustive

:23:04.:23:06.

process to check what is going It's obviously a very big deal

:23:07.:23:08.

if junior doctors are not providing But we are working very hard

:23:09.:23:13.

and also talking with the BMA to try to do what we can to make

:23:14.:23:22.

sure that patients are kept safe Right now that is a hope

:23:23.:23:25.

and not a guarantee? It is a hope and not a guarantee

:23:26.:23:29.

but I think we will be able to say in the next week whether we are

:23:30.:23:33.

confident we can deliver that. Finally, again, to check my

:23:34.:23:36.

understanding of your words, you seem to suggest there

:23:37.:23:39.

is room for negotiation, The talks at ACAS today

:23:40.:23:41.

are going on and you are not saying "We are adamant we are not moving

:23:42.:23:50.

an inch", there is the possibility that there could be concessions

:23:51.:23:53.

on your side and some sort of deal? We are absolutely prepared

:23:54.:23:56.

to negotiate and both sides have We have to stick within the cost

:23:57.:23:58.

envelope that we have. In the end both sides want to do

:23:59.:24:05.

the same thing which is to be able to promise NHS patients

:24:06.:24:09.

they will get the same high-quality care seven days a week and I think

:24:10.:24:11.

that's what doctors want and it is what I want

:24:12.:24:14.

as the Health Secretary. We should be able to find a deal

:24:15.:24:17.

which is why these strikes The indications are, although no one

:24:18.:24:25.

tells you exactly what is going on in the room, it is the issue of

:24:26.:24:29.

anti-social hours, how much is classed as anti-social witch doctors

:24:30.:24:38.

can claim extra pay for, that is the crux of the dispute -- which

:24:39.:24:43.

doctors. And there is the tension, of course, but there is the broader

:24:44.:24:49.

conversation, trying to win the public sympathy. There was an aide

:24:50.:24:55.

there, for Jeremy Hunt, ready to take a film Jeremy Hunt, which could

:24:56.:24:59.

be tweeted so the Department of Health could get their message out,

:25:00.:25:03.

they are taking that side of this dispute very seriously indeed.

:25:04.:25:05.

Thanks for joining us. Coming up: Making history in space -

:25:06.:25:08.

British astronaut Tim Peake prepares to step outside the

:25:09.:25:10.

International Space Station. Food labelling needs to change

:25:11.:25:12.

so people can see how much exercise they would need to do

:25:13.:25:20.

to burn off the calories - that's according to a leading

:25:21.:25:23.

public health charity. The Royal Society

:25:24.:25:28.

for Public Health - the RSPH - said "activity

:25:29.:25:31.

equivalent" calorie labelling should be put on the front of food

:25:32.:25:35.

and drink packs, with pictures showing the exercise needed

:25:36.:25:38.

to match the calorie intake. They've released a poll, too,

:25:39.:25:40.

which found that more than 60% of the 2000 people they asked

:25:41.:25:43.

would back the change. We can speak now to Shirley Cramer,

:25:44.:25:48.

the chief executive of the RSPH and Dr Sally Norton,

:25:49.:25:51.

a UK Leading Health Expert and NHS Widely think this would be a good

:25:52.:26:04.

idea? -- why do you think. We think this is a good idea, because we have

:26:05.:26:08.

a problem with obesity and overweight, 60% of the adult

:26:09.:26:12.

population are overweight or obese and that is climbing. We need to

:26:13.:26:18.

think of a number of ways where we and that is climbing. We need to

:26:19.:26:20.

can provide better information for people about the food they are

:26:21.:26:24.

eating, we know that people do use the front of pack traffic light

:26:25.:26:29.

labelling, but half of the people are also confused about that. We

:26:30.:26:33.

were looking for something which might make it much simpler, clear

:26:34.:26:39.

and very quick to get the information, so that you can make a

:26:40.:26:42.

good decision about the food you are buying. What would it look like on a

:26:43.:26:50.

pack? We have done some examples which are pictorial, because you

:26:51.:26:54.

merit things and many words are difficult to read quickly. --

:26:55.:27:00.

numeric. There is a picture of someone walking or running or

:27:01.:27:04.

swimming or cycling and the number of calories next to that, so you can

:27:05.:27:08.

see that if you have a packet of crisps that is 170 calories and that

:27:09.:27:14.

will take you 30 minutes of walking to burn off those calories. Doctor

:27:15.:27:22.

Norton, is it a simple equation, to make when you are working out, what

:27:23.:27:26.

you need to do to burn off a certain amount of calories? We are in danger

:27:27.:27:31.

of being overly simplistic, but it is right that we need to be

:27:32.:27:35.

promoting the message that we need to eat and move more to counteract

:27:36.:27:37.

the amount of food and drink to eat and move more to counteract

:27:38.:27:45.

taking in, but we are in danger of oversimplifying it and giving the

:27:46.:27:48.

wrong message, that all calories are created equal, and they are. If it

:27:49.:27:53.

takes you 20 minutes to run off the calories of a can of Coke, that has

:27:54.:27:57.

got nine teaspoons of sugar in it and know nutritional value, you

:27:58.:28:01.

could be having something more nutritious, vitamins, proteins, in

:28:02.:28:06.

that, as well, and so it is important that we don't think we can

:28:07.:28:09.

eat whatever we like as long as we run it off later. Do you think that

:28:10.:28:17.

this labelling would be a good idea? It is right that people are confused

:28:18.:28:20.

with food labelling, there is so much information, and I have trouble

:28:21.:28:24.

reading it half the time. You are looking for things like the number

:28:25.:28:29.

portions which are contained in that serving which is often very

:28:30.:28:32.

difficult to find, and so we do need something which is very quick

:28:33.:28:35.

because people often scan labels and we need a clear message that this is

:28:36.:28:40.

something which is quite high in calories and might not be good for

:28:41.:28:44.

you. What do you say to that, surely? There is a drive at the

:28:45.:28:50.

moment to look at the way that food is labelled and simple fire, but is

:28:51.:28:59.

this an over simple -- simplified, but is this an over simplification?

:29:00.:29:05.

We are hoping that the government will do something very substantial

:29:06.:29:11.

about sugar in childhood obesity strategies, but for most people are

:29:12.:29:16.

it is quite confusing, there's a lot to read. We want parents and others

:29:17.:29:22.

to be able to make choices based on the evidence, and if you are an

:29:23.:29:27.

adult woman you need around 2000 calories a day and a man needs

:29:28.:29:36.

around 2500 calories. Just understanding having two packets of

:29:37.:29:40.

crisps... We have some breaking news, Lord Janner's child abuse case

:29:41.:29:44.

has been formally dropped in the light of the death of the

:29:45.:29:50.

87-year-old. The seedings were left in limbo following the announcement

:29:51.:29:55.

that he died, but this morning the prosecutor told the trial judge that

:29:56.:29:57.

the Crown would not go ahead with the planned trial -- the proceedings

:29:58.:30:03.

were left in limbo. The trial was due to happen at the Old Bailey in

:30:04.:30:07.

April. Lord Janner was charged with sexual offences dating back to the

:30:08.:30:11.

1960s against nine alleged victims who were mostly under 16 at the

:30:12.:30:16.

time. He had been declared unfit to stand trial, due to irreversible

:30:17.:30:21.

dementia, and you might remember the controversy over the decision not to

:30:22.:30:25.

charging by the Crown Prosecution Service because of his health. It

:30:26.:30:32.

led to a review and a decision was taken that there should be a trial

:30:33.:30:36.

of the facts, and that would have meant that effectively a trial going

:30:37.:30:41.

ahead but without him participating meant that effectively a trial going

:30:42.:30:44.

and that was due to happen in April. He died at the age of 87 and that

:30:45.:30:48.

was being looked at, but now it will not go ahead. We can speak to our

:30:49.:30:53.

home affairs correspondent, who is outside the Old Bailey. Is this a

:30:54.:30:58.

surprise, that the trial will now not go ahead?

:30:59.:31:03.

Not really. The court was told by Richard Whitton QC, representing the

:31:04.:31:11.

Crown Prosecution Service, that ordinarily death brought criminal

:31:12.:31:16.

prosecutions to an end because there was no longer any one to convict or

:31:17.:31:20.

acquit. He said there was speculation after Lord Janner Bliss

:31:21.:31:26.

death that that might be different, for this process known as a trial of

:31:27.:31:30.

the facts. But the court heard that was not the case, there is no

:31:31.:31:36.

provision in law for posthumous proceedings, even if a defendant was

:31:37.:31:41.

found unfit to stand trial, as was the case for Lord Janner. After a

:31:42.:31:47.

hearing which lasted no more than 12 minutes, the court was told that it

:31:48.:31:50.

had a certified copy of Lord Janner Bliss death certificate, the judge,

:31:51.:31:56.

Mr Justice Openshaw, said that criminal proceedings against Lord

:31:57.:32:00.

Janner were entered by his death and the file would be marked, the

:32:01.:32:05.

defendant is deceased. -- were ended by his death. Throughout, Lord

:32:06.:32:10.

Janner insisted he was innocent of any of the allegations he was

:32:11.:32:14.

accused of, and his family has also said throughout that he is innocent.

:32:15.:32:21.

A lot of pressure was brought to bear after the Crown Prosecution

:32:22.:32:23.

Service initially decided that a trial could not go ahead because of

:32:24.:32:28.

the State of his health. This was something that the alleged victims

:32:29.:32:32.

had wanted to see. It is too early for any reaction, but what might you

:32:33.:32:41.

expect to hear on that front? This is now the end of the criminal

:32:42.:32:47.

process. The allegations against Lord Janner will also be considered

:32:48.:32:52.

as part of the God art public inquiry into historical child sex

:32:53.:33:01.

abuse. -- the Fed inquiry. That is an inquiry, not the same as criminal

:33:02.:33:07.

proceedings. This does not prevent any of the alleged victims from

:33:08.:33:15.

pursuing civil proceedings, that is claims against Lord Janner pars

:33:16.:33:21.

estate. Thank you. That's quickly returned to the

:33:22.:33:25.

conversation on food labelling. I interrupted you, Sally Norton. We

:33:26.:33:32.

interrupted to go to the Old Bailey. Just to summarise what you were

:33:33.:33:34.

saying about food labelling and the best way forward, there are so many

:33:35.:33:39.

suggestions about what is the best thing. Should everybody be working

:33:40.:33:43.

together to come up with the ideal label? That would be a good idea.

:33:44.:33:50.

These are voluntary food labels. We heard from the food and drink

:33:51.:33:53.

Federation when they saw the policy paper on the labelling and they were

:33:54.:34:00.

very supportive and encouraging. I think if the food industry

:34:01.:34:02.

understand the importance of labelling in having the right

:34:03.:34:06.

information, and appropriate information, to families, we are

:34:07.:34:13.

hopeful we can work together and get the right information out. What

:34:14.:34:17.

would an ideal label look like for you, Sally? It has to be clear and

:34:18.:34:22.

easy to read at a glance, people don't spend more than a few seconds

:34:23.:34:26.

reading it. We have to be careful that manufactures -- manufacturers

:34:27.:34:32.

are not using false labelling, calling things natural, organic,

:34:33.:34:37.

farm fresh and these different terms that make people think they are

:34:38.:34:44.

healthy. People are more likely to buy them and eat more of them, maybe

:34:45.:34:48.

even pay more for them. There are lots of aspect is in terms of food

:34:49.:34:53.

labelling packaging. Thank you both very much. Let us know what you

:34:54.:34:55.

think. Still to come today: David Bowie's

:34:56.:34:56.

music is expected to top the UK His album Blackstar is on course

:34:57.:34:59.

for the number one spot, We'll reflect on the reaction

:35:00.:35:06.

to his death this week. They've been dubbed the bad grandpas

:35:07.:35:07.

- the elderly gang responsible for the ?14 million Hatton Garden

:35:08.:35:09.

raid are facing jail after the final It took them two nights over Easter

:35:10.:35:12.

weekend last year to breach a vault in London and make away with cash,

:35:13.:35:20.

gold, diamonds and other jewellery. It was the work of a group of men

:35:21.:35:26.

in their 60s and 70s who plotted They were caught after secret

:35:27.:35:30.

recording devices planted in their cars captured them boasting

:35:31.:35:34.

about being involved in the biggest It's emerged police are looking

:35:35.:35:36.

for a mystery eighth suspect amid fears he may of fled overseas

:35:37.:35:43.

with ?10 million in loot. Our correspondent

:35:44.:35:48.

Daniela Relph explains. Hardly the usual suspect, a combined

:35:49.:36:03.

age of 278. When others would be enjoying retirement, these four men

:36:04.:36:07.

were plotting a daring heist. Brian Reader was the one the other is

:36:08.:36:11.

called the master. The oldest, even used a free bus pass to get Hatton

:36:12.:36:19.

Garden. CCTV placed the scene disguised as a workman. He came with

:36:20.:36:24.

experience. Brian Reader appeared in the dark handcuffs to buying clothes

:36:25.:36:28.

police officers. Decades earlier, the notorious ?26 million robbery

:36:29.:36:36.

from a warehouse at Heathrow. In his mid-40s then, he was sentenced to

:36:37.:36:39.

eight years in jail for handling stolen gold bullion. Terry Perkins

:36:40.:36:47.

celebrated his 67th birthday during the burglary. Here he is, pushing a

:36:48.:36:53.

wheelie bin of stolen jewels. A diabetic, he brought his medication

:36:54.:36:58.

in, he said that without it he would have been taken out in a bin. He had

:36:59.:37:04.

a criminal past, sentenced to 22 years for his part in the ?6 million

:37:05.:37:08.

raid on the Security Express headquarters in London. The

:37:09.:37:12.

detective who helped convict him as astonished at his latest crime. I

:37:13.:37:17.

was absolutely flabbergasted. I would have thought he would have

:37:18.:37:21.

learned a lesson and retired and got on with his property letting.

:37:22.:37:27.

Obviously he decided to have one more go for his pension. 74-year-old

:37:28.:37:33.

Kenny Collins was the lookout on the night of the burglary. Although some

:37:34.:37:37.

of the group claimed he fell asleep during the coach at ease. He was

:37:38.:37:40.

filmed the morning after walking away from the scene, smartly

:37:41.:37:46.

dressed, briefcase in hand. He had helped plan the heist and the

:37:47.:37:48.

aftermath and often brought helped plan the heist and the

:37:49.:37:54.

Dempsey with him. Danny Jones was described in court as the eccentric,

:37:55.:37:58.

a Walter Mitty character who liked to wear a fez and his mother's

:37:59.:38:05.

dressing gown to bed. He admitted that he had hidden some of the

:38:06.:38:10.

jewellery under family memorial stones at a north London cemetery.

:38:11.:38:15.

The police found far more than he revealed. He was the youngest of

:38:16.:38:21.

four at 60, here on a walkie-talkie appearing to coordinate events. He

:38:22.:38:26.

had a history of burglary. The raid as Hatton Garden over the Easter

:38:27.:38:30.

weekend was bowled but flawed. What would make a group of pensioners,

:38:31.:38:35.

even with their criminal past, take such an enormous risk? This kind of

:38:36.:38:42.

criminal enterprise makes them feel alive, takes them out of the

:38:43.:38:49.

banality, the ordinariness of their everyday lives. It is the dream

:38:50.:38:51.

aspirational job that everybody in this kind of world, that kind of

:38:52.:38:56.

underworld, dreams about. Even at their rage, they couldn't resist.

:38:57.:39:01.

But their final crime was too ambitious. They were too naive. This

:39:02.:39:08.

group of unusual suspects now face spending their twilight years in

:39:09.:39:09.

jail. Taxi driver Jon Harbinson

:39:10.:39:12.

was cleared of his alleged role He was asked to look after three

:39:13.:39:14.

bags at his home by his uncle William Lincoln, who was convicted

:39:15.:39:18.

yesterday, having been told they did not contain

:39:19.:39:21.

anything important. Thank you very much for joining us.

:39:22.:39:30.

It has been a court case that has captured the public imagination

:39:31.:39:33.

echoes of the ages of the defendants as much as anything? Indeed,

:39:34.:39:38.

absolutely, everyone has talked about it. That is why you have me

:39:39.:39:45.

here, I suppose. Your client was cleared of involvement in what

:39:46.:39:49.

happened. What were the allegations against him? They allege that he was

:39:50.:39:54.

a driver and he stored some of the loot. Luckily, you was innocent, it

:39:55.:39:59.

was nothing to do with me. He was falsely accused. His uncle was one

:40:00.:40:07.

of those convicted? Yes, his uncle, Billy Lincoln, Billy the Fish, as he

:40:08.:40:12.

was called in court, was convicted of both charges, hiding the loot and

:40:13.:40:19.

his part in the burglary. An interesting case to be involved

:40:20.:40:23.

with, extraordinary, talk us through... You were seeing it at

:40:24.:40:31.

close quarters. Quite an audacious crime. They went in over the Easter

:40:32.:40:42.

weekend, having taken on a faulty piece of equipment, a hydraulic

:40:43.:40:43.

pump, which was used to push away the Cabinet once they drilled into

:40:44.:40:48.

the vault, once it broke, they had to go away, waited a day, went to a

:40:49.:40:52.

DIY shop, bought a replacement pump and went back two nights later. It

:40:53.:40:59.

takes courage, whatever else you think of these people. If you wanted

:41:00.:41:07.

to be flippant you could almost say it is like a script out of a

:41:08.:41:10.

Hollywood movie because of the way that the various defendants have

:41:11.:41:15.

been characterised, their age and their characters? Indeed, we British

:41:16.:41:20.

quite like our heist. There was no violence involved, no one was

:41:21.:41:25.

surprised or scared by it, they went in and they went out overnight and

:41:26.:41:33.

got away with ?14 million worth of jewellery, at least initially.

:41:34.:41:36.

Unlike perhaps the great train robbery, which captured our

:41:37.:41:40.

imaginations 40 or 50 years ago, where we sometimes forget that the

:41:41.:41:43.

train driver was quite badly injured in that particular heist, this one

:41:44.:41:51.

we can be forgiven for having some grudging admiration for it. Thank

:41:52.:41:55.

you very much, barrister Philip Sinclair.

:41:56.:41:57.

Still to come: Do get in touch with us this morning if you've

:41:58.:42:00.

struggled to get your children into the school you want them

:42:01.:42:03.

We'll be discussing the pressure on places just after ten o'clock.

:42:04.:42:08.

Let's get the latest weather update with Matt.

:42:09.:42:14.

What is the latest? I thought before we looked at the UK whether we would

:42:15.:42:21.

step further out across the Atlantic. On Tuesday we would

:42:22.:42:26.

talking about the earliest Pacific hurricane in a good few years. We

:42:27.:42:31.

can match that, the Atlantic has got in on the game. Up to the top right

:42:32.:42:37.

of the charts, the Azores, circled here is hurricane Alex, the first

:42:38.:42:42.

Atlantic hurricane in January since 1938. Almost a record rate cut,

:42:43.:42:47.

phenomenal for this time of year. Usually you would need C

:42:48.:42:51.

temperatures of around 27 degrees, but at the moment there is unusually

:42:52.:42:55.

cold air lying above pretty cold waters. That has injuries this

:42:56.:43:01.

hurricane. What does it mean, you can predict too Farah head, so will

:43:02.:43:06.

hurricane can -- hurricane season continue all the way through? It

:43:07.:43:11.

does not start until the summer officially, but we will keep a close

:43:12.:43:15.

eye on it. Keeping a close eye on the Azores, it will not affect us

:43:16.:43:21.

directly, it will push off towards Greenland, but it may have an

:43:22.:43:26.

influence on the weather next week, as I will show you.

:43:27.:43:28.

At the moment, some pretty cold there across the UK. Much quieter

:43:29.:43:33.

than an Atlantic hurricane. Snow again through the night and frosty

:43:34.:43:38.

conditions this morning. This is the scene earlier on in the Highlands,

:43:39.:43:43.

snow on the ground, temperatures dropping to -6 overnight. Wintry

:43:44.:43:46.

flurries across Scotland at the moment are pushing southwards, rain

:43:47.:43:51.

and sleet around the coast, sleet and snow inland commerce and

:43:52.:43:56.

developing into Northern Ireland. If you are in Wales and south-west

:43:57.:44:00.

England. But a dry, crisp and sunny day for most. Still a bite in the

:44:01.:44:05.

breeze, taking it feel colder than temperatures would suggest. Dropping

:44:06.:44:12.

snow here and there, covering across parts of Scotland. Looking dry and

:44:13.:44:14.

brighter into the afternoon. More down across Northern Ireland for a

:44:15.:44:18.

time. We will start to see the showers run back into north-west

:44:19.:44:22.

England and North Wales once again. For the end of the afternoon, there

:44:23.:44:26.

could be snow over the hills. Some of the showers across South Wales,

:44:27.:44:33.

it should be dry and sunny for most do the afternoon, though, that

:44:34.:44:40.

feeling chilly. A very cold night tonight, temperatures set to drop

:44:41.:44:41.

further than last night. The breeze is quite noticeable demi- eastern

:44:42.:44:46.

coast of England. Clear skies for the West, mist and fog in Northern

:44:47.:44:49.

Ireland. Even in the towns and city centres, temperatures generally

:44:50.:44:58.

around freezing, if not below. -7 in Wales, -8 in parts of England, -10

:44:59.:45:05.

in Scotland. Some wintry flurries in the eastern coastal counties of

:45:06.:45:09.

England, still a strong notable in East Anglia. Make the most of the

:45:10.:45:13.

morning Scott -- sunshine in Northern Ireland and western

:45:14.:45:17.

Scotland. A bit of a spoiler on the way, more cloud through the

:45:18.:45:21.

afternoon, and by the end of the day and into the evening because the

:45:22.:45:27.

outbreaks of rain, sleet and hill snow. The main risk of snow is

:45:28.:45:29.

across parts of western Scotland, away from that we finish Saturday on

:45:30.:45:33.

a dry, crisp and frosty note. With cloud pushing into the West, eastern

:45:34.:45:38.

areas are where we are likely to see the frosty as conditions but also

:45:39.:45:41.

the best of the Sunday sunshine across southern and eastern areas.

:45:42.:45:45.

More cloud for the north and west, a grey day in Northern Ireland,

:45:46.:45:48.

Scotland and northern England especially raw, rain, sleet and snow

:45:49.:45:55.

at times. Into next week, cold and warm our battling it out either side

:45:56.:46:01.

of the UK. Which one winds? That is open to uncertainty, but there is

:46:02.:46:02.

the chance of Hello it's Friday, it's 10am,

:46:03.:46:11.

I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria Welcome to the programme

:46:12.:46:14.

if you've just joined us. The child sex abuse case

:46:15.:46:17.

against Lord Janner Starting school should

:46:18.:46:25.

be an exciting time - but for many families,

:46:26.:46:38.

over-subscribed schools and shrinking catchment

:46:39.:46:40.

areas make the whole We'll ask why there's such

:46:41.:46:42.

a pressure on places. It's the final countdown

:46:43.:46:46.

for Tim Peake - as he prepares to become the first astronaut

:46:47.:46:48.

representing Britain And David Bowie's latest album

:46:49.:46:50.

is set to rise to the top of the charts - along with the rest

:46:51.:46:55.

of his greatest hits. We'll look back at the reaction

:46:56.:46:58.

to his death this week. The child sex abuse case

:46:59.:47:01.

against the late Lord Janner It's because of the 87

:47:02.:47:10.

year-old's death last month. Our home affairs correspondent is

:47:11.:47:21.

outside the Old Bailey. The hearing lasted around 12 minutes and there

:47:22.:47:29.

was a statement from the prosecutor representing the Crown Prosecution

:47:30.:47:34.

Service, and the judge who was appearing in the court by video

:47:35.:47:39.

link, you said criminal proceedings against Lord Janner were ended by

:47:40.:47:45.

his death -- he said. The file would be Mark that the defendant is now

:47:46.:47:53.

deceased -- would be marked. Before his death a judge ruled he was unfit

:47:54.:47:57.

to stand trial, that he was not fit to plead. He faced 22 allegations of

:47:58.:48:04.

sexual offences against nine alleged victims, and his family has always

:48:05.:48:09.

insisted that he was innocent. Instead of a trial, there was what

:48:10.:48:21.

-- was going to be what is known as a trial of facts, where he would not

:48:22.:48:26.

be present at court. The court heard there was no provision made for

:48:27.:48:30.

posthumous proceedings even if a defendant was found unfit to stand

:48:31.:48:34.

trial, as Lord Janner was. This now brings to an end the criminal

:48:35.:48:40.

process. There is the possibility for alleged victims to take civil

:48:41.:48:45.

action and also the Goddard enquiry into historical child sex abuse will

:48:46.:48:52.

also look into this case. Daniel, at the Old Bailey, thanks.

:48:53.:48:56.

BT has been given final approval to take over mobile phone operator,

:48:57.:48:59.

EE - in a deal worth an estimated ?12.5 billion.

:49:00.:49:02.

Head teachers demand action to ease the pressure on school places

:49:03.:49:05.

in England - on the deadline day for primary school admissions.

:49:06.:49:10.

Three arrests over the Indonesia gun and bomb attacks that killed two

:49:11.:49:13.

people - so-called Islamic State says it was behind it.

:49:14.:49:17.

Here in the UK - the NHS changes its policy on organ donation

:49:18.:49:20.

- to cut the numbers of bereaved families blocking the use of organs

:49:21.:49:23.

from people who'd given their consent to the procedure.

:49:24.:49:29.

Matthew has been waiting seven and a half years now, it is torture, you

:49:30.:49:34.

are waiting every day for a phone call which we feel probably will

:49:35.:49:37.

never come. Anglican leaders signal

:49:38.:49:40.

their continued opposition to gay marriage by imposing sanctions

:49:41.:49:42.

against the US Episcopal Church, Major Tim Peake prepares

:49:43.:49:44.

for the walk of his life. He'll undertake an historic six hour

:49:45.:49:50.

space walk starting at lunchtime. Let's catch up with all the sport

:49:51.:49:53.

now and join Ore Oduba. A good day for England's cricketers

:49:54.:49:57.

in South Africa yesterday, We have had plenty of action this

:49:58.:50:13.

morning. In Johannesburg, England have finally dismissed South Africa

:50:14.:50:19.

for 313, but not without incident. The hosts started again and 206 to

:50:20.:50:23.

7-7 and England picked up two wickets. -- 200 67-7. South Africa

:50:24.:50:31.

added 37 for the last wicket, and Jimmy Anderson was removed from the

:50:32.:50:35.

attack for running on the wicket, but it was wrapped up when Ben

:50:36.:50:40.

Stokes took his 50th Test match wicket. England have not got off to

:50:41.:50:45.

a good start, Alex Hales out for just a single. England are 19-1. The

:50:46.:50:57.

Pakistan bowler Mohammad Amy has returned to action after he was

:50:58.:51:05.

jailed and banned for spot fixing after a Test series against England

:51:06.:51:07.

in 2010 -- Muhamed Amir. And now to the Australian open, Andy

:51:08.:51:24.

Murray has reached four finals in Melbourne, and he has lost all of

:51:25.:51:28.

them, but the draw has been made for the tournament, and he will begin

:51:29.:51:34.

his tournament against one of the rising stars, an 18-year-old German.

:51:35.:51:42.

Johanna Konta will take on Venus Williams in the first round. Play

:51:43.:51:47.

begins on Monday. Happy to be here and I'm looking forward to

:51:48.:51:51.

competing. I've played a couple of good matches already this year and

:51:52.:51:53.

I'm looking forward to playing some more. It is the beginning of the

:51:54.:51:59.

season and it is new and exciting. Sitting down for interviews is new

:52:00.:52:04.

again. I will be talking to Greg Rusedski on the programme in about

:52:05.:52:07.

half an hour about the British interest going into the first major

:52:08.:52:11.

of the year. We have got to talks Newco, Barry Hawkins has joined

:52:12.:52:17.

Ronnie O'Sullivan in the semifinals of the Masters at Alexandra Palace

:52:18.:52:24.

-- we have got to talk snooker. Barry Hawkins look to back up the

:52:25.:52:28.

match with the ping, but the referee made an interesting call. -- pink.

:52:29.:52:41.

Foul. Foul? He called a foul for a perfectly legitimate shot, which

:52:42.:52:47.

baffled the commentators and the player, but the referee apologised

:52:48.:52:50.

and he owned up to his mistake. All smiles. Barry Hawkins into the last

:52:51.:52:59.

four. The remaining quarterfinals are played today and both matches

:53:00.:53:05.

will be on BBC Two. Even professionals make mistakes, but as

:53:06.:53:08.

long as you apologise, we are all good, it proves. LAUGHTER

:53:09.:53:10.

. Thank you for joining us this

:53:11.:53:14.

morning, welcome to the programme if you've just joined us,

:53:15.:53:17.

we're on BBC 2 and the BBC Big reaction from you this

:53:18.:53:20.

morning on news that 500 families in the UK have

:53:21.:53:24.

refused to let a loved one donate their organs since 2010 -

:53:25.:53:26.

even though their deceased relative "Refusing to donate organs

:53:27.:53:29.

from somebody who wanted to give their organs

:53:30.:53:33.

is disgraceful". "People like me will die

:53:34.:53:35.

because of families like that". "People should discuss their wishes

:53:36.:53:37.

with relatives organ donation". "Then there would be no surprises

:53:38.:53:44.

at a terrible time". "I believe if you would

:53:45.:53:46.

receive a organ donation, "Don't take your organs to Heaven.

:53:47.:53:54.

Heaven knows we need them here". Thanks for getting in touch -

:53:55.:54:03.

do continue to tweet, Texts will be charged

:54:04.:54:05.

at the standard network rate. You can watch the programme

:54:06.:54:11.

online wherever you are - via the bbc news app

:54:12.:54:14.

or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria - and you can also subscribe

:54:15.:54:17.

to all our features on the news app, by going to add topics and searching

:54:18.:54:21.

'Victoria Derbyshire' The sexual offences charged against

:54:22.:54:39.

the late Lord Janner have been dropped. He died last month at the

:54:40.:54:44.

age of 87, he had already been declared unfit to stand trial

:54:45.:54:47.

because of his deteriorating and irreversible dementia, and they

:54:48.:54:50.

tried of the facts had been scheduled for April. -- a trial will

:54:51.:54:56.

stop our correspondent is outside the Old Bailey. He has more

:54:57.:55:04.

reaction. Within the past hour, the judge said that criminal proceedings

:55:05.:55:07.

against Lord Janner were ended by his death. And that his file would

:55:08.:55:11.

be marked, the defendant is deceased. Today's hearing was to

:55:12.:55:17.

establish whether any kind of criminal proceedings could still

:55:18.:55:21.

continue posthumously, and ordinarily a criminal trial would

:55:22.:55:25.

not continue after a defendant has died, but as you referred to there,

:55:26.:55:32.

Lord Janner had been found to be unfit to stand trial because of his

:55:33.:55:35.

dementia and instead what was to happen later this year was a trial

:55:36.:55:40.

of the facts where a jury would have established if Lord -- Lord Janner

:55:41.:55:50.

had done what he was alleged to, without establishing guilt or

:55:51.:55:55.

innocence. The court was told by the prosecution that there was no

:55:56.:55:58.

provision in law for posthumous proceedings even if a defendant was

:55:59.:56:01.

found unfit to stand trial as Lord Janner was. To discuss what this

:56:02.:56:09.

means, I'm joined by Liz who represents eight of the alleged

:56:10.:56:13.

victims. Lord Janner's family have said that he is innocent, we should

:56:14.:56:17.

say, they have said he is innocent of the allegations that were made

:56:18.:56:21.

against him. But those that you represent lady wanted to bring those

:56:22.:56:25.

allegations to court as part of a criminal process -- those that you

:56:26.:56:32.

represent wanted. They are devastated, but they understand the

:56:33.:56:35.

reasons why a criminal proceedings cannot go ahead, but the real

:56:36.:56:38.

travesty in this case is that many of them gave their statements to the

:56:39.:56:43.

police decades ago. There have been so mini missed opportunities to

:56:44.:56:46.

bring this case to justice while Lord Janner was alive -- so many.

:56:47.:56:53.

Now the only option left them is to attend before the Goddard inquiry,

:56:54.:56:56.

they have that will be taken as a priority and for them to give their

:56:57.:57:01.

evidence in person. This is the independent inquiry led by Lord

:57:02.:57:08.

Goddard which will look into these allegations as part of the overall

:57:09.:57:12.

enquiry. Yes, I hope that she will indicate that she will now hear the

:57:13.:57:18.

Lord Janner case as a matter of priority, and what is a tragedy is

:57:19.:57:21.

that the police have painstakingly gathered evidence in the last three

:57:22.:57:26.

years since many more allegations came to light and much of that

:57:27.:57:32.

evidence will not be heard. It is a real loss of justice to the victims,

:57:33.:57:37.

they totally understand why. It is the end of the criminal process, but

:57:38.:57:43.

they are still able to proceed in the civil courts, is that going to

:57:44.:57:49.

happen? We have already commenced court proceedings and thereby half

:57:50.:57:52.

in the civil courts and although he is now dead and cannot face a

:57:53.:57:57.

criminal trial, his estate can still face the criminal proceedings and

:57:58.:58:02.

they very much want that to happen. This is for the facts to be

:58:03.:58:08.

established. Many thanks. A judge has now brought to an end the

:58:09.:58:14.

criminal proceedings, and there is still the possibility for the

:58:15.:58:18.

alleged victims to pursue civil claims and the Goddard inquiry is

:58:19.:58:21.

also going to be looking into this case as part of its wider remit.

:58:22.:58:23.

Thanks for joining us. It's deadline day today

:58:24.:58:26.

for parents in England - who have until midnight to apply

:58:27.:58:29.

for primary school places. The National Association

:58:30.:58:32.

of Headteachers has strongly criticised the school

:58:33.:58:34.

planning process - saying that it's fragmented

:58:35.:58:39.

and confusing for parents. They say the problem is so bad it

:58:40.:58:40.

risks harming childrens' education, and local authorities need more

:58:41.:58:46.

power to control where new schools open to make sure places are created

:58:47.:58:49.

where demand is greatest. In a moment we will discuss

:58:50.:58:54.

all of this with primary school head teachers, council leaders

:58:55.:58:57.

and parents who've been But first let's get some more detail

:58:58.:58:59.

from our education correspondent So why is this a very difficult

:59:00.:59:02.

process for parents? It is one of those experiences as a

:59:03.:59:15.

parent that you'd read, not quite up there with changing nappies, but it

:59:16.:59:20.

is a pretty joyless task -- that you dread. By tonight, midnight, you

:59:21.:59:27.

have got to choose up to six schools, make the selections and

:59:28.:59:30.

apply, is worth putting down at least three to make sure that you

:59:31.:59:33.

get something you want. Depending where you live, you can apply it six

:59:34.:59:39.

times with different schools in different boroughs. Parents will

:59:40.:59:51.

then find out, and about four out of ten would not get their first

:59:52.:59:54.

choice, it has become more complicated and a more confusing

:59:55.:59:59.

system recently. There are changes to the system? The National

:00:00.:00:06.

association of head teachers says the system is broken and they have

:00:07.:00:09.

said it has been Balkanised, not just fragmented, but often

:00:10.:00:14.

uncooperative and schools do not work together for the greater good,

:00:15.:00:17.

because free schools and academies have the freedom to run their own

:00:18.:00:22.

admissions, and so parents can apply to 64 schools of six different

:00:23.:00:25.

types, and the schools might not inform each other -- can apply to

:00:26.:00:32.

six different schools. And so the local authorities might not be able

:00:33.:00:37.

to provide their legal duty to provide every child with a place at

:00:38.:00:42.

school. Which of course would harm the child.

:00:43.:00:44.

Let's talk now to a group of people directly affected by all of this -

:00:45.:00:48.

Titilayo Oluwatudimu, is the founder of a free school -

:00:49.:00:54.

Councillor Alisa Flemming, Labour Cabinet member for children,

:00:55.:00:56.

families and learning at Croydon Council -

:00:57.:01:07.

and parent Antonia Bennet - who has been through the system.

:01:08.:01:11.

Antonia, what happened with you? Antonia, what happened? We made the

:01:12.:01:22.

Antonia, what happened with you? We application in 2012 and in 2013

:01:23.:01:24.

Antonia, what happened with you? We made

:01:25.:01:24.

Antonia, what happened with you? We application in 2012 and in 2013 we

:01:25.:01:25.

Antonia, what happened with you? We made the

:01:26.:01:25.

application in 2012 and in 2013 we received

:01:26.:01:25.

application in 2012 and in 2013 we made the application

:01:26.:01:25.

application in 2012 and in 2013 we received a letter

:01:26.:01:25.

application in 2012 and in 2013 we made the application in

:01:26.:01:25.

application in 2012 and in 2013 we received a letter stating

:01:26.:01:25.

application in 2012 and in 2013 we made the application in 2012,

:01:26.:01:26.

application in 2012 and in 2013 we received a letter stating that we

:01:27.:01:26.

had not got our choices. received a letter stating that we

:01:27.:01:28.

made the application in 2012, in 2013 we received a letter stating we

:01:29.:01:30.

did 2013 we received a letter stating we

:01:31.:01:30.

had not got our choices. Isaac was being

:01:31.:01:31.

had not got our choices. Isaac was did not have

:01:32.:01:31.

had not got our choices. Isaac was being placed

:01:32.:01:31.

had not got our choices. Isaac was did not have our

:01:32.:01:31.

had not got our choices. Isaac was being placed in a

:01:32.:01:32.

had not got our choices. Isaac was did not have our choices. Isaac was

:01:33.:01:32.

had not got our choices. Isaac was being placed in a school

:01:33.:01:32.

did not have our choices. Isaac was being placed in a school 45

:01:33.:01:32.

did not have our choices. Isaac was being placed in a school 45 minutes

:01:33.:01:33.

bus journey was away, two buses. being placed in a school 45 minutes

:01:34.:01:35.

being placed in the school of 45 minute bus journey away. We

:01:36.:01:37.

being placed in the school of 45 bus journey was away, two buses. We

:01:38.:01:37.

being placed in the school of 45 minute bus journey away. We tried

:01:38.:01:38.

bus journey was away, two buses. We tried to appeal the process,

:01:39.:01:39.

bus journey was away, two buses. We minute bus journey away. We tried to

:01:40.:01:39.

bus journey was away, two buses. We tried to appeal the process, but

:01:40.:01:39.

minute bus journey away. We tried to tried to appeal the process, but we

:01:40.:01:39.

minute bus journey away. We tried to appeal the

:01:40.:01:40.

tried to appeal the process, but we did not

:01:41.:01:40.

tried to appeal the process, but we appeal the process,

:01:41.:01:40.

tried to appeal the process, but we did not fit the correct

:01:41.:01:40.

tried to appeal the process, but we appeal the process, but

:01:41.:01:41.

tried to appeal the process, but we did not fit the correct criteria.

:01:42.:01:41.

tried to appeal the process, but we appeal the process, but we did

:01:42.:01:44.

did not fit the correct criteria. Isaac

:01:45.:01:44.

did not fit the correct criteria. appeal the process, but we did not

:01:45.:01:44.

meet appeal the process, but we did not

:01:45.:01:44.

Isaac went appeal the process, but we did not

:01:45.:01:44.

meet the appeal the process, but we did not

:01:45.:01:44.

Isaac went to a appeal the process, but we did not

:01:45.:01:45.

meet the correct criteria. appeal the process, but we did not

:01:46.:01:47.

Isaac went to a school 45 minutes away, in the end. Hanley schools

:01:48.:01:50.

were closer? away, in the end. Hanley schools

:01:51.:01:51.

meet the correct criteria. How many schools

:01:52.:01:51.

meet the correct criteria. How many were closer? 23

:01:52.:01:51.

meet the correct criteria. How many schools were

:01:52.:01:51.

meet the correct criteria. How many were closer? 23 schools.

:01:52.:01:51.

meet the correct criteria. How many schools were close to you?

:01:52.:01:54.

meet the correct criteria. How many were closer? 23 schools. --

:01:55.:01:54.

meet the correct criteria. How many schools were close to you? 23

:01:55.:01:54.

meet the correct criteria. How many were closer? 23 schools. -- how

:01:55.:01:54.

many. schools were close to you? 23

:01:55.:01:54.

schools were closer, this was schools were close to you? 23

:01:55.:01:57.

many. This schools were close to you? 23

:01:58.:01:57.

schools were closer, this was the closest

:01:58.:01:57.

schools were closer, this was the many. This was

:01:58.:01:57.

schools were closer, this was the closest undersubscribed school.

:01:58.:01:57.

schools were closer, this was the many. This was the closest school

:01:58.:01:58.

which was under subscribed. closest undersubscribed school.

:01:59.:01:59.

Crikey. closest undersubscribed school.

:02:00.:01:59.

which was under subscribed. How did you

:02:00.:01:59.

which was under subscribed. How did Crikey. How

:02:00.:02:00.

which was under subscribed. How did you feel?

:02:01.:02:00.

which was under subscribed. How did Crikey. How did that make you feel?

:02:01.:02:02.

which was under subscribed. How did you feel? We were devastated, I

:02:03.:02:03.

Crikey. How did that make you feel? Devastated.

:02:04.:02:03.

Crikey. How did that make you feel? you feel? We were devastated, I had

:02:04.:02:03.

to quit my you feel? We were devastated, I had

:02:04.:02:04.

Devastated. I had to you feel? We were devastated, I had

:02:05.:02:04.

to quit my job you feel? We were devastated, I had

:02:05.:02:04.

Devastated. I had to quit my you feel? We were devastated, I had

:02:05.:02:05.

to quit my job and you feel? We were devastated, I had

:02:06.:02:05.

Devastated. I had to quit my job you feel? We were devastated, I had

:02:06.:02:05.

to quit my job and get a you feel? We were devastated, I had

:02:06.:02:05.

Devastated. I had to quit my job and to quit my job and get a part-time

:02:06.:02:06.

job to fit to quit my job and get a part-time

:02:07.:02:06.

get a part-time job to quit my job and get a part-time

:02:07.:02:06.

job to fit in with taking to quit my job and get a part-time

:02:07.:02:07.

get a part-time job to to quit my job and get a part-time

:02:08.:02:07.

job to fit in with taking him to to quit my job and get a part-time

:02:08.:02:07.

get a part-time job to fit in job to fit in with taking him to

:02:08.:02:07.

school. job to fit in with taking him to

:02:08.:02:08.

get a part-time job to fit in with taking

:02:09.:02:09.

get a part-time job to fit in with school. 45 minute to drop him at

:02:10.:02:11.

school and then 45 minutes back. school. 45 minute to drop him at

:02:12.:02:17.

taking Isaac to school. It was 45 minutes to drop him at school, 45

:02:18.:02:17.

minutes back, I spent hours travelling every day. The impact on

:02:18.:02:19.

him was heartbreaking. Having to travelling every day. The impact on

:02:20.:02:20.

school and then 45 minutes back. It him was heartbreaking. Having to get

:02:21.:02:21.

school and then 45 minutes back. It was difficult,

:02:22.:02:21.

him was heartbreaking. Having to get your

:02:22.:02:21.

him was heartbreaking. Having to get was difficult, getting

:02:22.:02:21.

him was heartbreaking. Having to get your child about

:02:22.:02:21.

him was heartbreaking. Having to get was difficult, getting up at

:02:22.:02:21.

him was heartbreaking. Having to get your child about seven I

:02:22.:02:21.

him was heartbreaking. Having to get was difficult, getting up at seven

:02:22.:02:22.

o'clock in the morning, he was difficult, getting up at seven

:02:23.:02:23.

your child about seven I am,. was difficult, getting up at seven

:02:24.:02:23.

o'clock in the morning, he did not want to eat breakfast, it was too

:02:24.:02:29.

early, and then getting on a bus, 45 minutes, trying to make sure we were

:02:30.:02:33.

not late because we work relying on public and sport committee was a

:02:34.:02:35.

very stressful time. Dominic, your daughter is three and

:02:36.:02:46.

a half, you already engage with the process? A blood terrifyingly

:02:47.:02:54.

complex and really worryingly. I have spoken to local education

:02:55.:02:58.

authorities, where I live, all the good schools around me are

:02:59.:03:01.

oversubscribed, I fall outside the area. Luckily, I have found a school

:03:02.:03:07.

which hopefully she will get into, a good school which is relatively new

:03:08.:03:11.

but in a different alley. It feels to me that it is about my only

:03:12.:03:17.

choice. Wider you feel you will not get into any nearest schools? There

:03:18.:03:21.

are services on the Internet which will show you roughly where you need

:03:22.:03:25.

to be to get into a school. How close is your nearest school that

:03:26.:03:31.

you would want to get into, ideally? Probably about 400, 500 metres away.

:03:32.:03:36.

That you don't reckon you would get in? No. Mark Darren Peetoom, you are

:03:37.:03:42.

the headmaster of a very oversubscribed primary, to what

:03:43.:03:47.

extent? We have had years with over 300 applications for 30 places.

:03:48.:03:52.

Managing expectations of parents getting children into the school is

:03:53.:03:55.

an enormous challenge, and also for the local authority. Last year you

:03:56.:04:02.

had to look within 300 metres to get into the school. It must be a very

:04:03.:04:09.

difficult, stressful process for the schools and the parents? We have a

:04:10.:04:13.

lot of upset parents, parents of children already in the nursery,

:04:14.:04:20.

which does not guarantee a primary admissions place. It is a constant

:04:21.:04:22.

battle. And supporting them to making informed decisions about

:04:23.:04:26.

where our realistic choices for their children to get school places.

:04:27.:04:33.

You look after education for Crowley -- for Croydon Council, I suppose

:04:34.:04:37.

you have the overview. What is going on, is everybody plumping for the

:04:38.:04:41.

same schools and inevitably there is a jam, or is the availability? Where

:04:42.:04:47.

is the system system falling? Specifically in relation to Croydon,

:04:48.:04:56.

the difficulty in previous years had been in terms of the supply strategy

:04:57.:04:59.

and ensuring the places are available. Luckily in Croydon we

:05:00.:05:03.

have been able to see, especially given that we are the regeneration

:05:04.:05:09.

borough of London at the moment, in the last five years we have seen an

:05:10.:05:17.

additional 70 forms of entry added, the mass majority would have been

:05:18.:05:20.

the primary estate, some of that would have been an secondary

:05:21.:05:25.

provision in the borough. Managing that, whilst difficult, has been

:05:26.:05:30.

successful. The vast majority of the parents have been offered a school

:05:31.:05:33.

of choice. Not necessarily the first place. One of the focus is for me,

:05:34.:05:39.

especially as apparent myself, is we need to get back to the place of

:05:40.:05:44.

local schools for local children, but also that all schools should be

:05:45.:05:49.

a school of choice. That is the philosophy we have in Croydon, and

:05:50.:05:53.

as a result there is the hope that all children would be able to go to

:05:54.:05:57.

their local schools. I have heard you mention about a good school. In

:05:58.:06:06.

Croydon, again, we are very lucky that the vast majority of schools

:06:07.:06:08.

are good or outstanding. That is very important in terms of parent

:06:09.:06:14.

preference. For me, as a mother, that is of importance. Equally,

:06:15.:06:19.

having to travel long distances, as Antonia has mentioned, can be an

:06:20.:06:24.

issue for the child. By the time they get to school they are

:06:25.:06:30.

overtired or not able to keep up in class. For me, we really need to

:06:31.:06:38.

continue to push local school places for local children. You set up a

:06:39.:06:45.

free school, why? Go by -- I lived in a row where I had children in

:06:46.:06:51.

inadequate classrooms, Portakabins, classrooms were overcrowded. There

:06:52.:06:55.

were parents like we have listened to who were frustrated at not

:06:56.:06:57.

getting the schools of their choices. If and when the Government

:06:58.:07:03.

then decided that there was a possibility of having community

:07:04.:07:08.

groups setting up schools, what I did was have conversations with my

:07:09.:07:12.

local community. There is a need. If we can fight that provision for

:07:13.:07:19.

children, let's do it. I had to get together some members of the

:07:20.:07:23.

community with very close collaboration with the local

:07:24.:07:27.

authority looking at where the places were needed, and we set up

:07:28.:07:34.

authority looking at where the free school. However, we are

:07:35.:07:35.

experiencing exactly the same thing around the table, oversubscription.

:07:36.:07:42.

We set up a very small school. Still a very small percentage being

:07:43.:07:47.

catered for. They need is still there. Practically every year we

:07:48.:07:51.

have been oversubscribed. The good thing is that because it is set up

:07:52.:07:57.

in a place where it is needed, parents feel part of a community.

:07:58.:08:03.

There is a large bit of biding in from the parents around and members

:08:04.:08:06.

of the community, because it is part of their community. People like what

:08:07.:08:11.

they see with your school and want to go there, do you know of any

:08:12.:08:19.

undersubscribed schools in the area? Not exactly. We are in a position

:08:20.:08:23.

where practically all the schools around us are oversubscribed. We

:08:24.:08:28.

have a huge growth, we have more people with in the borough. There

:08:29.:08:35.

are constantly people looking for more places. Mark, are you aware of

:08:36.:08:38.

any schools near you being oversubscribed? -- undersubscribed?

:08:39.:08:45.

All of the schools local to me in Hackney faces the challenges of

:08:46.:08:50.

massive oversubscription. We have had massive increases in birth rate,

:08:51.:08:54.

lots of regeneration with new housing, families coming to live in

:08:55.:09:00.

the borough. It is very error to send children to school and, they

:09:01.:09:05.

get a very good deal. -- it is a very successful borough to send

:09:06.:09:12.

children to school in. We are a victim of our own success, families

:09:13.:09:15.

desperately want to get in. It is another story, but it is

:09:16.:09:19.

interesting, Hackney has turned around. We have transformed

:09:20.:09:22.

education through hard work, efforts and education will stop it is a

:09:23.:09:26.

credit to everybody working in the schools that we have had this

:09:27.:09:34.

delight happen. Antonia and Dominic, are you aware of schools where you

:09:35.:09:39.

could have much more easily got into that you are looking at, but you

:09:40.:09:44.

just don't want to go to? Parents are shying away and they are

:09:45.:09:49.

undersubscribed? The garb not that I am aware of. You were not being too

:09:50.:09:59.

picky? We were being picky based on distance, but that was the

:10:00.:09:59.

picky? We were being picky based on criteria we were looking at. The

:10:00.:10:02.

schools in the area where we live, they range from good to outstanding,

:10:03.:10:07.

we didn't mind weather it was a good or outstanding school, we just

:10:08.:10:10.

wanted to be able to get our child into a school where we could still

:10:11.:10:15.

have a good quality of life. Where did you end up? You said it was this

:10:16.:10:22.

45 minute bus ride, it has change? As of November, Isaac was into our

:10:23.:10:27.

first choice school after two and a bit years of being on the waiting

:10:28.:10:32.

list. And the difference is incredible. How close is that to

:10:33.:10:37.

list. And the difference is now? About a ten minute walk away.

:10:38.:10:41.

You were on the waiting list, is that a passive system where you sit

:10:42.:10:44.

back and wait, or do you have to stay in touch and get involved? You

:10:45.:10:50.

had to stay in touch with the local authority to say you would like to

:10:51.:10:53.

remain on the list, you have to do that once every term or you get

:10:54.:10:58.

taken off the list. When parents call up they should also check they

:10:59.:11:02.

are on the list for all of the schools they applied for, we had a

:11:03.:11:06.

situation where we were taken off the list for one of the schools

:11:07.:11:14.

completely in error, it meant we had to reapply, which is why it took

:11:15.:11:16.

even longer to get Isaac into a local school. How much fluidity is

:11:17.:11:19.

their further down the track for parents who don't get their kid

:11:20.:11:22.

where they want, things might change? In Croydon, it varies. We

:11:23.:11:28.

have a combination of both academies, free schools and, in

:11:29.:11:34.

terms of the selection process, although everything runs through the

:11:35.:11:40.

local authority in terms of place allocation, the waiting lists and

:11:41.:11:46.

the appeals, if it is, for example, maybe a faith school, is undertaken

:11:47.:11:50.

directly by that individual establishment there was fluidity.

:11:51.:11:58.

Currently our focus is moving towards the secondary phase of

:11:59.:12:01.

education, making sure place allocation is available. On Monday

:12:02.:12:06.

night we will be looking at our supply strategy, moving forward for

:12:07.:12:13.

the coming three years and ensuring we have sufficient school places

:12:14.:12:19.

available. But I just think it is an ongoing issue that we have always

:12:20.:12:26.

had in terms of parental preference. Even for me myself. And one of the

:12:27.:12:34.

major issues we have had, it is not political and I don't seek to make

:12:35.:12:37.

it, but if we look at somewhere like Croydon, an outer London borough, in

:12:38.:12:41.

terms of the funding that you get, in terms of being able to expand on

:12:42.:12:46.

what is deemed to be a good or outstanding school, there is an

:12:47.:12:53.

issue. If we take Lambeth, right next door to us, is about ?2000 less

:12:54.:13:02.

per child, ?60,000 per class. So the money we have spent on expanding

:13:03.:13:06.

schools has been done through rolling -- oral wing and funding

:13:07.:13:20.

bids. The Government has ruled nationally that all new schools had

:13:21.:13:21.

to be free schools. It takes the power amp little choice away.

:13:22.:13:26.

Dominic, I did not get you to answer the question about whether there are

:13:27.:13:29.

schools closer to you that you would prefer not to send? There is one

:13:30.:13:34.

school. It might rarity is quality of life. Taking a three-year-old

:13:35.:13:40.

across London at eight o'clock in the morning, the traffic and

:13:41.:13:46.

everything else, is a nightmare. Adding two Alister somebody's day is

:13:47.:13:53.

not fair. It is more than just... It is about local communities. I wanted

:13:54.:13:56.

to be able to play with children on the same street and not travel miles

:13:57.:14:02.

to get to school. It is really, really important. Obviously I don't

:14:03.:14:07.

want a school that I am scared of her going to! Do you both see ways

:14:08.:14:14.

of improving the system? It is numbers, but it is so complicated.

:14:15.:14:19.

Free schools and academies, which set their own admissions criteria,

:14:20.:14:24.

you don't necessarily find it up by the Kouyate local education

:14:25.:14:27.

authorities, you have to speak to individual schools and you don't get

:14:28.:14:31.

the information needed to know whether you will get into the

:14:32.:14:34.

school, it is very difficult. You end up resorting to doing huge

:14:35.:14:40.

amount of research yourself a which is tiring and difficult, especially

:14:41.:14:45.

when you have young children. Thank you all for coming in and talking to

:14:46.:14:50.

us. We invited the Department for Education to come in, but they told

:14:51.:14:55.

us that 95% of parents received an offer at one of their top three

:14:56.:14:58.

schools last year and the Government doubled funding for new school

:14:59.:15:03.

places to ?5 billion between 2011 and 2015, helping create half a

:15:04.:15:07.

million new places, and they say they have opened more than 250 free

:15:08.:15:11.

schools, we know more needs to be done so we will invest a further ?23

:15:12.:15:18.

billion in school buildings up to 2021, creating 500 new schools and

:15:19.:15:21.

600,000 new school places. Tim Peake gets ready for the first

:15:22.:15:23.

ever space walk by an astronaut representing the UK -

:15:24.:15:27.

We'll have the details in the lead And David Bowie is on course to top

:15:28.:15:30.

the UK charts once again. We'll reflect on the reaction

:15:31.:15:34.

to his death this week. As we've been hearing,

:15:35.:15:43.

the child sex abuse case against the late Lord Janner has

:15:44.:15:48.

been dropped, following the 87 A 'trial of the facts' had been

:15:49.:15:51.

scheduled for April but that Head teachers demand action to ease

:15:52.:15:55.

the pressure on school places in England - on the deadline day

:15:56.:16:01.

for primary school admissions. BT has been given final approval

:16:02.:16:05.

to take over mobile phone operator, EE - in a deal worth

:16:06.:16:09.

an estimated ?12.5 billion. The NHS changes its policy

:16:10.:16:17.

on organ donation - to cut the numbers of bereaved

:16:18.:16:19.

families blocking the use of organs from people who'd given

:16:20.:16:22.

their consent to the procedure. Matthew has been waiting seven and a

:16:23.:16:31.

half years, it is torture, you are waiting everyday for a phone call

:16:32.:16:34.

which we feel probably will never come.

:16:35.:16:36.

Anglican leaders signal their continued opposition to gay

:16:37.:16:38.

marriage by imposing sanctions against the US Episcopal Church,

:16:39.:16:41.

It's time to talk sport with Ore now, and just a couple of days

:16:42.:16:49.

until the start of the Australian Open tennis?

:16:50.:16:53.

That is right, excitement is building to the first grand slam of

:16:54.:16:57.

the year, Andy Murray will be the centre of attention as far as the

:16:58.:17:01.

British contingent is concerned, but he's not the early representative in

:17:02.:17:07.

Australia. We can talk to Greg Rusedski, who joins us live. Good

:17:08.:17:13.

morning. You have some late nights coming as we look forward to this

:17:14.:17:16.

tournament, starting Monday, but what about Andy Murray? He has been

:17:17.:17:21.

to four finals in Melbourne and lost all of them. Psychologically that

:17:22.:17:27.

will hurt, but this could be the year? Possibly yes, last year were

:17:28.:17:33.

sensational for him, getting to number two at the end of the season

:17:34.:17:38.

and winning the Davis Cup for the number two at the end of the season

:17:39.:17:38.

first time for Great Britain, he has a lot of confidence and I think he

:17:39.:17:42.

will make it back to the final. But Novak Djokovic has been sensational

:17:43.:17:49.

at the moment. If he gets to the final, anything can happen in the

:17:50.:17:52.

one match, so he has a great opportunity to win this for the

:17:53.:17:56.

first time. It took him five times to win his first grand slam, so

:17:57.:18:01.

maybe the number five is lucky for Andy Murray. What about the man he

:18:02.:18:09.

is taking on? Alexander Zverev. He is very tall, six feet six, a

:18:10.:18:10.

difficult opponent. I think is very tall, six feet six, a

:18:11.:18:17.

win in straight sets, Andy Murray, but Alexander Zverev is one for the

:18:18.:18:21.

future, but I don't think he is physically strong enough to stay

:18:22.:18:26.

with Andy. Andy has beaten him before and he was very convincing,

:18:27.:18:30.

and I think Andy's test will start in the quarterfinals, that could be

:18:31.:18:34.

David Ferrer, and then the semifinal could be Stan Wawrinka. I think you

:18:35.:18:40.

could get to the final, though. Johanna Konta, it is not get much

:18:41.:18:44.

harder than the seven time grand slam champion Venus Williams. But is

:18:45.:18:50.

the best time to take on Venus Williams in the opening round? Yes,

:18:51.:18:52.

you want to do that before she Williams in the opening round? Yes,

:18:53.:18:57.

her momentum, especially going into the second week. They have met on

:18:58.:19:01.

one occasion, and Venus Williams was victorious in a tight 3-set match,

:19:02.:19:08.

but Johanna Konta is really growing in confidence. Mentally, the

:19:09.:19:14.

question was, does she have the right attitude? I think she does.

:19:15.:19:20.

This could be a possible upset and I think Joanne concert could beat

:19:21.:19:24.

Venus Williams. -- Johanna Konta could beat Venus William 's. It was

:19:25.:19:29.

an incredible year for British tennis, you mentioned the Davis Cup

:19:30.:19:33.

victory, history was made last year, and we hope possibly building on

:19:34.:19:37.

that with the likes of Kyle Edmund coming through. It was a great year

:19:38.:19:42.

for the Brits in Australia, six British players, four in the men and

:19:43.:19:47.

two and the ladies, so there's a lot of forward to. -- on the ladies.

:19:48.:19:56.

Kyle could have a rematch with David Goffin, which we saw in the Davis

:19:57.:20:01.

Cup, that could be intriguing. So many good matches to look forward

:20:02.:20:05.

to, and the men and women's side, and if you want to watch the

:20:06.:20:08.

coverage, watch it live and exclusive on Eurosport. Oh! But why

:20:09.:20:15.

would you not listen to it on five live sports extra? You can listen to

:20:16.:20:20.

it there, as well, but if you want to see it live on the television,

:20:21.:20:21.

that is the only place to watch it. to see it live on the television,

:20:22.:20:32.

You get it anyway you can exclaim -- you can square that was Greg

:20:33.:20:39.

Rusedski. -- you get it anyway you can! England are 27-2 at the moment,

:20:40.:20:46.

so they are not doing very well at the moment in the third Test match

:20:47.:20:50.

in Johannesburg. Thanks for joining us. Many of you getting in touch

:20:51.:20:56.

after hour, station regarding organ donation and the news that about 100

:20:57.:21:01.

families every year are saying no to organ donation and in spite of their

:21:02.:21:05.

loved one giving consent prior to their death -- after our

:21:06.:21:10.

conversation. "Why not make relative consent

:21:11.:21:11.

part of the donation "I think legally

:21:12.:21:18.

a person's remains belong "Surely it is unlawful to go

:21:19.:21:21.

against their wishes". "My dad was ill for ten years

:21:22.:21:27.

and received a new liver two "Had it not been for the lady

:21:28.:21:32.

who donated he would be gone now. "The pain of waiting and watching

:21:33.:21:36.

someone you love deteriorate "I'm sorry but this is the ultimate

:21:37.:21:41.

in state interference". "My body does not belong

:21:42.:21:46.

to the state unless I agree "If you are prepared to accept

:21:47.:21:49.

an organ you should "He was a magnificent actor

:21:50.:21:54.

and a wonderful man" - the words of the author JK Rowling

:21:55.:22:00.

paying tribute to the actor Alan Rickman, who has died

:22:01.:22:05.

of cancer at the age of 69. He enjoyed success in theatre

:22:06.:22:07.

and television but performances in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves,

:22:08.:22:11.

Die Hard, Love Actually and the Harry Potter films

:22:12.:22:15.

which brought him global fame. Yes, but you've also

:22:16.:22:19.

made a fool out of me. You've made the life

:22:20.:22:58.

I lead foolish, too. That is a very serious

:22:59.:23:00.

accusation, Potter. There's a poem I wanted

:23:01.:23:08.

you to translate. There's a bit that

:23:09.:24:00.

I wanted you to hear. Juliet Stevenson played

:24:01.:24:07.

Alan Rickman's co-star in 'Truly, She told Newsnight's Emily Maitlis

:24:08.:24:25.

that the film was a good representation of what he could do -

:24:26.:24:29.

which was everything. He was an incredibly inventive

:24:30.:24:31.

person to work with. Very, very creative and thinking all

:24:32.:24:34.

the time about the bigger picture. He had his eye on everything,

:24:35.:24:38.

what the camera was doing, He thought very big and he had many

:24:39.:24:41.

kinds of talent that could address themselves to all kinds

:24:42.:24:49.

of parts of the job. He had a lot to offer

:24:50.:24:52.

in every department. He was an inspiration to pretty much

:24:53.:24:54.

everyone on the crew as I'm sure Sometimes there was a look

:24:55.:25:00.

as Emma Thompson said, one look or one word,

:25:01.:25:12.

an eyebrow, a glance. He's sitting on my shoulder now

:25:13.:25:15.

and looking down at me and saying, He could make you roar with laughter

:25:16.:25:23.

with a couple of words. He could say something searingly

:25:24.:25:28.

insightful with just a line. He was astonishingly economic

:25:29.:25:33.

in his utterance but he had this laser beam accuracy

:25:34.:25:36.

about what needed to be said. Whether that was funny

:25:37.:25:39.

or insightful or tricky Is that from his stage sort

:25:40.:25:42.

of structure that came before film? He was a theatre actor for a long

:25:43.:25:52.

time before he became He was a classical actor

:25:53.:25:55.

on stage and we met A lot of us did who were

:25:56.:25:59.

close friends of his. As for that capacity,

:26:00.:26:06.

no, I think you always have that. He lived on the back

:26:07.:26:11.

foot, you know. He thought a great deal before

:26:12.:26:13.

he offered up an opinion. He was also very instinctive

:26:14.:26:17.

and an intuitive person. His judgments came from

:26:18.:26:19.

an amazing blend of the mind, The actress Juliet Stevenson talking

:26:20.:26:25.

about Alan Rickman who died British astronaut Tim Peake

:26:26.:26:32.

will boldly go where few others have later today - taking part

:26:33.:26:40.

in his first space walk, a month after arriving

:26:41.:26:43.

at the International Space Station. Major Peake and his American

:26:44.:26:46.

colleague Tim Kopra will try to repair a power unit

:26:47.:26:48.

on the outside of the station. They'll start just before

:26:49.:26:54.

1pm, taking about six So how do you train for a spacewalk

:26:55.:26:56.

- well, it seems you need a big swimming pool and a lot of patience,

:26:57.:27:02.

as Tim Peake explains. What does it feel like to put on the

:27:03.:27:14.

suit? Pretty difficult to get into, it is like a small caving expedition

:27:15.:27:17.

just to get into it, and it is a very tight fit, although it looks

:27:18.:27:21.

very big and bulky. Inside the suit you are crammed in, which is a good

:27:22.:27:26.

thing, you don't want too much room to move around, I like it pressing

:27:27.:27:29.

hard against my shoulders, right here. There are probably three

:27:30.:27:40.

activities which are really high risk, the launch, the re-entry, and

:27:41.:27:44.

spacewalking, it is one of the few times where as an astronaut you

:27:45.:27:47.

completely responsible for your own safety. You really are out there on

:27:48.:27:52.

a limb and you need to be able to take care of yourself and understand

:27:53.:28:00.

what is going on. Do you have a go to release yourself? It is one of

:28:01.:28:06.

those tasks, you cannot have a slip in concentration and if you forget

:28:07.:28:11.

once to put down your local Teva which is what keeps you attach to

:28:12.:28:15.

the space station and then you turn around and start working on a piece

:28:16.:28:20.

of equipment and let go of the hand rails, before you know it you are

:28:21.:28:24.

floating off space station and that is a really bad day. It was good, as

:28:25.:28:31.

expected, it was tough. Feels like I've been in the gym all day. He's

:28:32.:28:39.

not got much longer to wait. The countdown will be starting at 1130

:28:40.:28:42.

and he is still carrying out his final preparations.

:28:43.:28:46.

Here to tell us more about Tim Peake's mission is the man

:28:47.:28:48.

who has been backing him from the very start.

:28:49.:28:50.

Jeremy Curtis leads the UK Space Agency's space education

:28:51.:28:52.

We are also joined by our science correspondent. He was talking about

:28:53.:28:59.

the difficulties in front of him, but when he steps out, what can he

:29:00.:29:05.

see? Until this point, every view he has had of the Earth is essentially

:29:06.:29:11.

through a window, and the spacecraft which took him up, you can look out

:29:12.:29:15.

the window and looked down in the space station, this will be the

:29:16.:29:21.

first time he comes up top, to face the vastness of space, seeing the

:29:22.:29:28.

earth below, separated only by his space suit, which is like

:29:29.:29:33.

earth below, separated only by his spaceship, it has all the things on

:29:34.:29:34.

board which he needs to survive out there. Seeing the outside structure

:29:35.:29:39.

of the space station, as well. He saw that on the approach, but this

:29:40.:29:44.

will be the first time he is setting his gloved hands down onto it, so it

:29:45.:29:49.

will be remarkable. He will be given a few minutes to Oriente takings so

:29:50.:29:53.

with the situation because it must be a very strange and wonderful

:29:54.:30:00.

situation -- orientate himself with the situation. It must be an

:30:01.:30:06.

incredible moment. He has been training for about six years, to get

:30:07.:30:08.

to this point, and he's very training for about six years, to get

:30:09.:30:13.

share this with people in the UK, because he realises it is a

:30:14.:30:16.

privilege, a vision that no one else gets, this is a rare opportunity, so

:30:17.:30:20.

he is keen for people in the UK to have a part of his mission by

:30:21.:30:24.

following his training and understanding what he is trying to

:30:25.:30:28.

do. Children are getting very engaged with this. It is brilliant.

:30:29.:30:33.

They are so excited, there are schools across the country following

:30:34.:30:37.

what he's doing, and they can do this much more easily if they go

:30:38.:30:39.

through some of the education programme we have set up. His

:30:40.:30:48.

training, you can copy, and follow, the training that Tim does on the

:30:49.:30:52.

space station. You saw in the film how much hard work it will be for

:30:53.:30:56.

Tim, he has got to fight the space suit all the time, although he is

:30:57.:31:00.

weightless, he has got to be very strong and dextrous and keep

:31:01.:31:03.

concentrating the whole time. He has got to do much training in space, he

:31:04.:31:08.

does two hours every day of trading, he runs on a running machine and

:31:09.:31:12.

lifts weights -- two hours every day of training. We can follow that on

:31:13.:31:16.

the ground and you can copy what he's doing and see if

:31:17.:31:20.

the ground and you can copy what keeping up with him, in the space to

:31:21.:31:20.

Earth challenge. # I guess you could, if you wanted,

:31:21.:31:29.

by the sort of food he is eating, I think they sell it in museum shops.

:31:30.:31:36.

Is this is real. Oh, is the stuff in museum shops not?! Dybala I should

:31:37.:31:44.

not say. This is scrambled egg. It is written in English and Russian.

:31:45.:31:49.

You re-hydrated by putting hot water in. It tells you exactly what

:31:50.:31:54.

quantity to put in. It tells you how much sodium there is in every one of

:31:55.:31:58.

these things. They had to keep their salt intake right, because their

:31:59.:32:02.

fluid balance changes. The body tries to get rid of excess fluid and

:32:03.:32:04.

they ended been dehydrated. tries to get rid of excess fluid and

:32:05.:32:10.

are on a spacewalk for six hours you have to keep your fluid levels up.

:32:11.:32:14.

We have another thing called Mission next, it is all about the foods that

:32:15.:32:20.

astronauts eat and the fitness that they have to acquire in order to do

:32:21.:32:26.

their work. -- called Mission by. We all got 7000 kids involved in the

:32:27.:32:30.

challenge running from now and tell March. Here is my favourite. Tim has

:32:31.:32:39.

to drink tea, how could you... He is British, how could you not? This is

:32:40.:32:45.

what he looks like, it does not look very appealing. You have to put hot

:32:46.:32:48.

water in. He has got some very appealing. You have to put hot

:32:49.:32:54.

that is a bit better quality than the standard dehydrated stuff. I

:32:55.:32:57.

love it, it would take a Brit to do that! Tell us more, Rebecca, about

:32:58.:33:03.

what he will be doing. One astronaut has previously described it as like

:33:04.:33:08.

mending a watch while wearing oven gloves and falling off an infinitely

:33:09.:33:13.

tall building. That sounds about right, it is DIY in the most

:33:14.:33:16.

possible situation you could imagine. Just working through the

:33:17.:33:21.

spacesuit is incredibly hard. Gloves, it is like squeezing against

:33:22.:33:25.

the pressure balls you get in the gym, constantly squeezing your

:33:26.:33:30.

fingers to manipulate. Today he will be helping to replace a power unit

:33:31.:33:34.

on by called a sequential shunt unit. The space station is powered

:33:35.:33:41.

by solar arrays, there are eight of them on there, and the sequential

:33:42.:33:43.

shunt unit essentially regulates how much power is actually going into

:33:44.:33:47.

the space station, it controls the voltage. One of those eight units

:33:48.:33:53.

broke down, that is OK, the space station can run on 12.5% less power,

:33:54.:33:57.

but they don't want another one to break so they have to fix it. Sounds

:33:58.:34:03.

simple, it is one box that they are swapping for another, but doing that

:34:04.:34:06.

in spades is very hard. Every time you're twisting a wrench or a power

:34:07.:34:11.

drill, your body is turning at the same time, you had to be tethered

:34:12.:34:14.

on, have a footplate installed to make sure you are locked into place.

:34:15.:34:20.

They have to do it during the hours of darkness as well. On Earth, if we

:34:21.:34:24.

were doing it during our night-time we would have loads of hours, space,

:34:25.:34:29.

it is whizzing around the Earth at 20,000: it is an hour, night-time

:34:30.:34:34.

lasts around 45 minutes, they have a 30 minute window. We don't want to

:34:35.:34:39.

do it during daylight because the power of the sun is going through

:34:40.:34:44.

the solar array, it would be disastrous if an electrical current

:34:45.:34:48.

run through it and there were any sparks. Swapping in one box for

:34:49.:34:53.

another sounds easy, but I think it will be quite challenging. How can

:34:54.:35:02.

we monitor what is going on? It will be streamed live. Can you imagine

:35:03.:35:04.

doing all this for the very first time, it is incredibly important

:35:05.:35:07.

and, guess what, millions will be watching over your shoulder. There

:35:08.:35:12.

is a camera on his helmet, it will all be streamed live on the Nasa

:35:13.:35:16.

website or the print chippy website, where you can watch everything

:35:17.:35:22.

happen -- or the Principia website. It is meant to be about 12:55pm,

:35:23.:35:27.

sometimes they get to their checks quicker and they will be out

:35:28.:35:30.

earlier, they don't want to waste time. The replacement of the SSU,

:35:31.:35:35.

what Becky was talking about, we think that will be at around 2:30pm.

:35:36.:35:39.

But they can always change things, they might move it up or down. It

:35:40.:35:47.

will be really, really exciting to watch over his shoulder as he does

:35:48.:35:49.

this extraordinary operation for the very first time. Thank you both.

:35:50.:35:51.

And there'll be coverage of Tim Peake's spacewalk on the BBC

:35:52.:35:53.

News Channel from 11:30am - and the walk itself is due to happen

:35:54.:35:56.

That may be a little bit variable. Just a quick update on news breaking

:35:57.:36:07.

this morning that legal proceedings against former Labour peer Lord

:36:08.:36:11.

Janner, who was facing child abuse charges, have been formally dropped

:36:12.:36:15.

following his death. A planned trial of the fact Jew to be held at the

:36:16.:36:19.

Old Bailey in April will not go ahead. We are hearing that the

:36:20.:36:25.

independent Goddard inquiry into child sex abuse will look into Lord

:36:26.:36:31.

Janner and subsequent failures to protect children from abuse by him

:36:32.:36:33.

or others associated with him. David Bowie's 25th studio album

:36:34.:36:35.

Blackstar is expected to top the albums chart when the latest

:36:36.:36:37.

countdown is announced this evening. The album was released just two days

:36:38.:36:40.

before the iconic musician's death And it looks like many of his

:36:41.:36:42.

greatest hits could make it We can speak now to Shaun Keaveny,

:36:43.:36:47.

fresh from presenting his Radio Thank you for coming in. It is

:36:48.:37:02.

extraordinary to watch on a particularly the video for Lazarus,

:37:03.:37:06.

knowing he was doing bad as he knew he was dying and wanted people to

:37:07.:37:14.

see that, potentially after his death? Many people are saying, the

:37:15.:37:16.

producer of the album, has said precisely that. David Nugent will

:37:17.:37:25.

well. -- David knew full well. He had his diagnosis, it accelerated

:37:26.:37:29.

come November, he knew what was coming and he wanted to work until

:37:30.:37:34.

the last moment and create this love letter, if you will, to the fans, a

:37:35.:37:38.

final statement. Only he could pull it off with quite such aplomb. Let's

:37:39.:37:43.

listen more closely to the music as we watch the video.

:37:44.:37:56.

# Look up here, man, I'm in danger. # I've got nothing left to lose.

:37:57.:38:13.

# I'm so high it makes my brain world.

:38:14.:38:24.

The poignancy of watching about just after his death brings a whole extra

:38:25.:38:26.

dimensional to a song, which is a beautiful song, but it adds a

:38:27.:38:31.

different dimensional? It does. I was listening to at last Saturday,

:38:32.:38:36.

just streaming at, it had only just come out last Friday. Just having

:38:37.:38:40.

that workmanlike experience of listening to new Bowie music and

:38:41.:38:45.

thinking, while, it is really good, this is a fantastic new piece of

:38:46.:38:51.

music. And then come Monday, it is a totally different... Seen through a

:38:52.:38:55.

totally different prism. On radio six music we experience such a

:38:56.:39:01.

colossal out pouring of grief. We talked about it on this very

:39:02.:39:06.

colossal out pouring of grief. We programme on Monday. It was

:39:07.:39:07.

unprecedented. Thinking about it and living with it for the last few

:39:08.:39:11.

days, I think one of the reasons is that David Bowie is a singular

:39:12.:39:17.

musician. In many regards, if other icons are to die, unfortunately we

:39:18.:39:22.

all shuffling off the mortal coil, very often they are part of a group,

:39:23.:39:26.

where as David has created this entire canon of work themselves, all

:39:27.:39:30.

these different different guises, that is what people are clinging

:39:31.:39:37.

onto. It is like losing about 75 artists at once coming he created

:39:38.:39:40.

all these different worlds. We are hearing one of his greatest hits,

:39:41.:39:44.

these are all coming back to chart. Is it young people who were not

:39:45.:39:52.

aware of him before who were waking up to his music? I have brought a

:39:53.:39:56.

couple of e-mails. Again, what comes through, certainly for us at the

:39:57.:40:02.

station, is how many people have had the experience of having it passed

:40:03.:40:06.

to them from older generations and passing it on. A gentleman called

:40:07.:40:10.

Andrew played the songs to his children in his car, these are seven

:40:11.:40:17.

and ten-year-old children. Other people get in contact, a gentleman

:40:18.:40:22.

said we bought our eldest a dance at record player to take to college,

:40:23.:40:28.

and the day before, the news of David's passing came, he rang me up

:40:29.:40:32.

from Southampton University to tell his father that he had listened to

:40:33.:40:36.

Ziggy Stardust for the first time on vinyl, what a great experience it

:40:37.:40:41.

was. He says, I am dreading telling him the bad news. It is so

:40:42.:40:45.

wonderful, largely thanks to streaming services like Spotify and

:40:46.:40:49.

things, this music lives on as viscerally in young people as it

:40:50.:40:53.

does in the older generation. My kids are seven and five and have

:40:54.:40:56.

been asking for David Bowie songs all week. That is a great piece of

:40:57.:41:04.

news. I have had a conversation with my kids about how some music will

:41:05.:41:07.

really and juror, and what makes some artists live over the

:41:08.:41:16.

generations. -- will really endure. Because they dared to do something

:41:17.:41:23.

different when they were doing it. It is arguable whether Black Eyed

:41:24.:41:27.

Peas or Ollie Merz will be talked about in the same way in the next 45

:41:28.:41:33.

or 50 years. But some artists like this, you know they will be around

:41:34.:41:37.

for hundreds of years. There will not be a big funeral. There have

:41:38.:41:41.

been various reports of him having already been cremated. You are

:41:42.:41:44.

getting a lot of input from fans on the station, do fans feel they

:41:45.:41:49.

somehow want to pay tribute to David Bouley and remember him with some

:41:50.:41:56.

sort of memorial? -- to David Bowie. I can't really remember the last

:41:57.:42:01.

time it happened if, indeed, it has, fans across the world are already

:42:02.:42:08.

putting together memorial concerts, putting together different ideas.

:42:09.:42:10.

One person on Twitter was talking about trying to create a ring of

:42:11.:42:17.

love around the Pyramid stage at Glastonbury this year, just

:42:18.:42:19.

everybody holding hands and singing David Bowie songs, charity concerts,

:42:20.:42:25.

this kind of thing. There is one in Coneygree Hall in March which would

:42:26.:42:32.

be a tribute before he died, now it is a memorial -- in Coneygree Hall.

:42:33.:42:36.

It is passing the torch to the younger generation of fans. Possibly

:42:37.:42:41.

lots of Mali will be raised by all of these fans doing different things

:42:42.:42:44.

for David. Really good to talk to you. Thank you for remembering David

:42:45.:42:47.

Bowie with us. Thank you for your company today,

:42:48.:42:48.

have a good weekend. We end the week as we started -

:42:49.:42:51.

with a tribute to David Bowie. MUSIC: Instrumental

:42:52.:42:54.

from "Heroes" by David Bowie. # Like the dolphins,

:42:55.:43:04.

like dolphins can swim. # Though nothing, nothing

:43:05.:43:21.

will keep us together. MUSIC: Instrumental

:43:22.:43:28.

from "Heroes" by David Bowie. Celebrate a country 4,000 years

:43:29.:44:07.

in the making. China begins here.

:44:08.:44:09.

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