01/02/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria Derbyshire,

Nearly ?5,000 on clothes, hundreds of pounds on trainers,

spas at health resorts and a first class ticket to New York -

just some of the stuff individual clients at Kids Company were given,

according to a new report by MPs which blames an "extraordinary

catalogue of failures" for the collapse of the charity.

I'm not sorry I bought the kids nice things.

The only thing I'm sorry about is I didn't raise enough money.

A second inquest into the death of a teenage army recruit

at Deepcut Barracks more than 20 years ago opens today.

The father of 18-year-old Private Cheryl James tells us

It is the last chance, and that is why I have said that on the appeal

full if these people don't have the courage to step up and speak now, I

don't think they will have another chance.

And we'll meet two young transgender men who've recently returned

to their home country of Jamaica to reveal their new identities

We're on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until 11 this morning.

Throughout the programme we'll bring you the latest breaking news

And, as always, we want to hear from you on all the stories

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

you are via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

First this morning, there was an "extraordinary

catalogue of failures of governance and control at every level" -

that's what a committee of MPs has concluded about the collapse of Kids

They blame those running the charity, auditors,

regulators and Government ministers and say that Government

money was released in an "unjustifiable" way.

There are a number of claims in the report about the amount

of money that was dished out to some of the kids and young adults that

One person was given more than ?4,700 to spend on clothes

Someone else was bought shoes which cost ?305.

But it wasn't just assistance with the wardrobe.

Some who came to Kids Company were given special spa treatments

at the luxury health resort Champneys.

It was even claimed that they splashed out on first

class flight for one client to go see his girlfriend in New York

and for somebody else to fly to Ibiza.

The former trustees of Kids Company have condemned the report

as inaccurate, unbalanced and irresponsible.

for an interview this morning, but she's declined.

We also approached BBC presenter Alan Yentob,

who was the chair of Kids Company trustees,

On Wednesday evening you will be able to watch

In her own words - in a documentary on bbc one called

'Camila's Kids Company: The Inside Story' -

It's a good question, who's to blame.

That the media, the politicians, engaged in.

And I was supposed to be killed off.

I'm not sorry I gave the kids money, I'm not sorry I bought them nice

things, I'm not sorry I fought for them.

The only thing I'm sorry about, I didn't raise enough money.

What do you want me to be sorry about?

I'm trying every which way to save our staff's jobs.

I'm hoping, through a campaign, I can turn redundancy money,

that they might give, into money to continue running.

Because the amount they're giving, to make the staff redundant,

is exactly what I need to be able to continue.

You're going to be doing something behind the scenes?

Because if you're asking me, the correct law is to take care

If the law of the land is not correct, we have

It's a chess game, I'm playing chess with psychopaths.

Someone might think, you're an equally big nutter!

But my nuttiness is in the service of children so it's OK!

You can see that programme in full on Wednesday at 9pm.

With us here in the studio to discuss this further

is Bernard Jenkin, the Conservative MP who chairs

the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee

Esther Kellen, who was Kids Company director of services

And Ka-Hal Morrow, whose son benefited

You saw Camila Batmanghelidjh saying she is not sorry forgiving the kids

nice things. What you think? She had a fantastic mission. She had great

vision. But she must've been very to work with. If you are running a

large charity, you have to have some discipline. You have to be able to

work with others and accept the discipline of others, and you have

to accept that you are not the big deal, the big deal is the reputation

of the charity, the security of the finances of the charity and every

body has got to work as a team, and I think the trustees gave themselves

an impossible job I taking this person on, and there was one trusty

that fought and fought to try to bring some financial sense to this,

he resigned in March. I think there are many, many lessons the trustees

of many charities, because very often, the founder of a charity is a

powerful and charismatic Alison, but as the charity grows, particularly

if it is taking on responsibility for so many employees in so many

vulnerable people, one of the things we were recommending is that Ofsted

should inspect all youth charities. Ofsted came into this charity once

and was never invited back again because it was probably going to

make some uncomfortable truthss available, which people didn't want

to hear. When you say it was never invited back again, is it down to

charities to invite them? There is no kind of formal inspection, and

maybe that should change, particularly if Government is

handing out large sums of money to charity is looking after vulnerable

people. You talk about an extraordinary catalogue of failures

of governance and control at every level, trustees, auditors,

regulators, Government. In the end, who should have been putting their

hand up and sorting this out? You mentioned there was one trusty but

that trusty resigned. It is very hard for the chair of the trustees,

but unfortunately, in any organisation, the chair sets the

tone, and this was Alan Yentob, and he will feel terribly blamed this

morning for this report. It is not about blame, it is about learning.

Clearly there was a lack of sufficient understanding on the

trustees about what this charity was about. There was no psychotherapist

or psychologist on the trustees, and yet this was an organisation the

delivered therapy and psychological care. There was no expert from the

youth sector on the trustees, and yet this was delivering critical

services in the youth sector. These are the sort of lessons that

trustees of other charities need to learn, that they need to have the

breadth of skills available to them, and they need to be able to have the

conversations, there should be an organisation in which employees who

feel concerned about things can raise things right up to the trustee

level. And the sense we got was that things were not talked about. Before

we move on, you said that this shouldn't be about blame but about

learning, but you have also said that you don't think these

charities, these trustees should be able to be trustees in the future?

We are making an issue of support here, that somebody should

adjudicate. We have disqualification of company directors in company law,

and in fact the charities commission is taking on new powers to be able

to disqualify charity trustees in the same way. What we say is we

welcome that. We are not making any judgment about any individual

trustee in this case, that would not be fast. But you think that what

went on here should be enough to prevent these trustees being

trustees again? No, we are not saying that. We are not a court. We

can't adjudicate on that. What we are pointing out is what should have

been known, what should have been learned while the charity was

capable of surviving and was not learned, and the learning goes to

the Charity Commission, to the firms of advisers. The accountant told us

this charity was living on a knife edge. That wasn't really apparent

from the audit letters that he produced every year for the charity.

That message should have been taken to the charity trustees year after

year, you cannot go on like. Why were there no reserves in the

charity? Partly because the policy of the charity was to spend the

money as soon as it came in, that is why she was always running out of

money, because she just spent it and nobody could control what she spent.

Very distressing for people working in the charity who were doing so

much good work for children and vulnerable young adults, and I think

the other thing we have tried not to lose in our report is this charity

wasn't just a disaster. It was filling a very important gap, and I

think the Government needs to take that on as well and carry on funding

charities this sector. We are going to speak to someone who

has benefited in just a moment, but just a word on others who you have

basically said failed here effectively. Government giving a

huge amount of money to Kids Company. ?42 million over ten years.

Could you point your finger at? The chief executive had the ability to

impress Ministers and finish up on platforms with prime Ministers,

attending the Conservative Party conference, and she made her charity

very important to successive Government Looe, and that obviously

distorted the perception of government. Other charities feel

bitterly angry that someone could walk into Downing Street and just

pull this money out of the Government when they had to fill in

forms and go through the competitive process. I'm afraid the word we use

is unethical. What we're recommending is that where a charity

executive has formed a close relationship or a political

relationship with ministers, those ministers should not be involved in

making decisions about funding for such a charity. They should recuse

themselves, it is called conflict-of-interest, in the same

way that we are not really happy that Alan Yentob's

conflict-of-interest were addressed properly by the BBC Trust, but one

of my colleagues has described it as absolution by resignation. Somehow,

something in the BBC governance has been brushed under the carpet by the

departure of Mr Yentob, when really it is a similar situation, a

long-standing senior executive, widely respected, nobody wants to

challenge him, but how did he finish up in a studio looking over the

shoulder of the producer while Camila Batmanghelidjh was being

interviewed, and nobody has suggested that really the output of

the BBC was distorted by that, but what is the attitude in the senior

management of the BBC that allowed that to occur, made it seem all

right to him? And that is a matter for the trustees of the BBC. What

Matt let's go to somebody who's family

did benefit. Case Morrow, your nine-year-old son did benefit from

counselling through Kids Company. What is your perspective? I think it

is a tragedy that it has closed. I can't comment on the broader

picture, but as a parent, what they did was fantastic. About this time

last year, my son had basically a nervous breakdown, and Kids Company,

we had somebody on site who was just amazing stop she provided

unconditional love, therapy, support. The school are brilliant as

well, but Kids Company were outside of that, and the kids saw that. This

time last year, my son said the only people he trusted were me and his

teddy bears, and six month later, he said the only people he trusted were

me, his teddy bears and the lady from Kids Company. And is that helps

that you couldn't have got from anywhere else? Social services were

fabulous. Camhs were involved, they provide mental health services. But

the support that she gave was amazing.

Esther Kellen, do you think this report is fair? I think it is fair

to a large extent. The good work that Kids Company has been doing has

been recognised, which was reiterated by that parents just now.

We must not forget that. Today is a difficult day for all the young

people served by Kids Company and the staff who have lost their jobs

as a result of it. I was slightly anxious about the finances a year

ago in November when we were paid late and I realised there were no

reserves. Asking questions about its just was not the done thing. What do

you mean by that? Was that the perception that you had? Did you try

and raise it and find out that was the case? Yes, I tried to raise it

and I was reassured. Don't worry, I will get the money. Who did you

raise it with? I asked Camilla about the money and the director of

finance about the late payment of the salaries and the directors of

HR. What can we do about this? But we were reassured that Camilla would

pull the magic out of the hat and make sure that the money was there.

In retrospect, do you wish you had taken those concerns further? Yes, I

expect so. Maybe I should have. In Bristol I only ever saw two trustees

visiting the organisation in Bristol. We did have 100 staff in

Bristol and six sites. I would have liked it if the trustees had taken

more interested in what we were doing over here. In a way we were

quite separate from the London set up, you know. We ran quite a tight

ship, I would say. Explain that. I knew where every penny went. We were

not handing out money to young people as has been suggested in

media reports. Every penny was accounted for. Were you spending

large sums of money on clothing and shoes and first-class tickets? We

were not, absolutely not. I felt that was not the right thing to do.

What we did do was provide food bags for children and young people on the

Friday. If somebody had a hole in their shoes and it was raining

outside and there was no other pair of shoes, I might take them to a

cheap shoe shop and buy them a pair of shoes, because you and I do not

want to walk around with shoes with holes in. I think there is nothing

wrong with buying a young person a pair of shoes but it would be a

cheap pair from a cheap shot. People getting in touch on this one. This

tweet, it disturbing that the Government is more concerned about

the finances of Kids Company than the Google accounts. What do you say

to that? Well, I show people's concern about the Google accounts. I

am struck that the Italians have got more money from Google than we have

but that is not the responsibility of my committee. I can understand

why people are feeling that. John says I expect she is not sorry for

buying things for children but she should be sorry for the way she

managed the company with the taxpayers' money she was given. And

this tweet, we need to support families. Charities and their

founders should not be untouchable. I should say that Camilla

Batmanghelidjh said your report was bias and rumour and the only

rigorous fact based investigation was with the police. The police need

evidence beyond all reasonable doubt. She is referring to the

unsubstantiated allegations of sexual misconduct, which were the

straw that broke the camel's back at the end of the life of the charity.

We do not rely on police investigations for the safeguarding

of children in schools or in residential homes. There is proper

inspection. That is why one of the lessons here is that there needs to

be proper inspection of charities like Kids Company, perhaps by Ofsted

or the Care Quality Commission of the NHS, to make sure there is

proper safeguarding. The lack of a prosecution is not sufficient

assurance that safeguarding was sufficient in this charity. Do you

believe that lessons have actually been learned and anything will

change as a result? This report into Kids Company and our report last

week into fundraising by some charities... I think this has been a

very tough year for high profile large charities. It has done a lot

of damage to the reputation of charities. These two events. I am

sure that charity trustees and the charities commission and the

Government are already learning. We are going to have a new fundraising

regulator for example. The whole attitude of the Charity commission

will be transformed by this. The real message to charity trustees is

that you cannot rely on anybody else. There is no substitute for

your own judgment as a trustee. And if you depend upon others to mark

your homework then you are not a good charity trustee. You should be

satisfied in your own heart and conscience that you know what is

going on in your charity, that people trust you, there is a

trusting atmosphere. You heard just now that there was not an atmosphere

of trust in Kids Company. The trustees must have known that. The

meetings of trustees must have been stilted and rather on relaxed

occasions. -- unrelaxed occasions. If that is happening there must be

something deeply wrong. The organisations are therefore trustees

to go to them when they need help. To say they are not happy about the

way charity is being run and they need help. That should be perfectly

legitimate. Maybe the charities commission needs more powers to

support trustees in their role. Thank you. And thank you for your

comments on that as well. Thank you for joining us today. Still to come:

We meet two young transgender men who have recently returned to their

home country of Jamaica to reveal their new identities to their

families and we will find out how they got on. First, summary of the

main news this morning. MPs investigating the charity

Kids Company say an extraordinary catalogue of failures led

to its collapse last year. Their report blames those

running the charity, its trustees, auditors,

regulators and ministers. Its former chief executive,

Camilla Batmanghelidjh, has called the document

a product of bias and rumour. Earlier chair of MPs spoke to us.

The policy was to spend the money as soon as it came in and this is why

they ran out of money because she just spent it. Nobody could control

what they spend. Very distressing for people working in the charity

who were doing so much good work for children and vulnerable young

adults. David Cameron and European Council

President Donald Tusk are set for a day of talks about the UK's

renegotiated membership of the EU today, which Mr Tusk has

described as crucial. A meeting last night

ended without a deal, though a Downing Street source said

there had been a breakthrough on restricting benefits

for EU migrants. A new inquest will open this

afternoon into the death of a teenage soldier

at Deepcut Barracks, Private Cheryl James was one of four

young recruits to die at the Surrey The inquest will hear

evidence from her father. I don't underestimate it and I wish

we could just get on with it. I am not in the least fazed by it. It is

time the stories were told in a court to be properly addressed.

America's presidential hopefuls face their first electoral test

tonight with a series of votes in Iowa.

The mid-western state will be the first to choose who should be

the candidates from both the Republican and Democratic

Polls suggest both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton hold narrow

The World Health Organisation will hold an emergency meeting today

to decide if the outbreak of the Zika virus should be declared

The mosquito-borne virus which has been linked to thousands of severe

birth defects in Brazil could affect up to 4 million people this year.

Books of condolence will be opened for Sir Terry Wogan this morning

He died after a short illness yesterday at the age of 77.

The mayor said the books would allow people to pay tribute

to a true son of Limerick and a broadcasting institution.

Now we can catch up with all of the sport. News of John Terry's future

at Chelsea? Bring us up to date. Yes, not much of the future because

the Chelsea captain has just a few months left in English football, it

looks like. He says the club will not renew his contract and he will

look to play abroad at the end of the season. But the club says that

situation is pretty fluid and it could change. He could be off today

of course. Very unlikely but the transfer window is still open until

tonight. Premier League spending is set to break ?1 billion in a single

season for the first time. It looks like a tug-of-war already today over

at Saido Berahino, the West Brom striker. That is an early story on

what is always a frantic day at the BBC Sport Centre. Newcastle bid ?21

million for the striker yesterday and Stoke could be after him as

well. We will see how that develops. Matt Elliott is with me just after

ten o'clock, the former Leicester and Scotland defender, to talk all

things football and you can talk about Johanna Konta as well if he

likes but I doubt it. She had a fantastic run at the Australian Open

but she has left the Fed Cup tree in a hole because she has withdrawn

from the trip to Israel with an intestinal problem. I will have that

and more stories just after ten o'clock. Thank you.

Talks between David Cameron and the European Council President,

Donald Tusk, about stopping benefits for migrants from the rest

of the EU, have ended without agreement.

The negotiations resume today and the next 24 hours have been

described as crucial. Our political guru Norman Smith is here to tell us

the latest. One newspaper said there had been a breakthrough and others

are saying no. Maybe in 24 hours so give us clarity. What we can say is

we are reaching Showtime in terms of the negotiations. David Cameron

clearly wants to get this nailed down quickly. He does not want its

dragging on for ever and a day. He would like to have the referendum

this year, in part because he does not want his whole second term as

Prime Minister to be totally overshadowed by the ongoing European

saga. Though he has been meeting a whole load of people over the past

24 hours to try and get some kind of deal together. Last night he met

this chap here. This is Donald Tusk, former Prime Minister of Poland, now

the President of the EU Council, a pivotal figure in the whole process.

He is the man who will have to pull the paper together that will contain

the deal that David Cameron wants to get. He was not sounding that of

sadistic when he left last night. He was saying no deal and the next 24

hours are critical. -- he was not sounding optimistic. But team

Cameron was feeling more optimistic. They think it is possible that a

package could be published tomorrow. They could be on course for that

February council meeting with the referendum later in the year in

June. So what are the key sticking points? I suppose the big one we all

know about its benefits, restricting the access of EU migrants to in work

benefits. You will have heard a lot about the emergency brake, the sort

of thing you want your son or daughter to have when they are

taking driving lessons. But it is not that. It would enable the UK to

stop paying in work benefits to new EU migrants for up to four years

because the level of immigration to Britain was deemed to be so high.

Downing Street say that is a significant breakthrough which they

managed to have achieved and they have got the agreement

of the EU commission on it. However we have no idea how long it will

last for. Four years, five, six, is it is stopgap measure? We don't know

how you would trigger the emergency brake when all other countries have

got to vote for it and crucially everybody else has got to agree to

it. Countries like Poland are decidedly iffy about curbs on

benefits. But David Cameron is quite enthusiastic about it and this is

what he said before yesterday's dinner. There is no deal done but we

have made progress. There is still a long way to go that one instance of

progress is that for a long time I have said we have got to have a

system where you do not get benefits out of the system until you

pay into our system. We want to end the idea of something for nothing.

People said that was impossible and there is now a proposal on the

table. It is not good enough and it needs more work but we are making

progress. What other trouble on the undergrowth is there? Another key

area that David Cameron wants to sort out is the whole issue of

protecting non-Euro countries. The concern of David Cameron and George

Osborne is that the single currency club gang up on stuff up Tour of

Britain and other non-Euro countries and push us around. -- poor old

Britain. If there was a deal that Britain did not like the look of, we

could say hang on, we need a full European Council meeting to decide

it. Why that matters is that agreement at council meetings has

got to be unanimous, so what that would give for Britain is info

effect a veto. Not everybody is thrilled about that, particularly

the French, not happy. That will be difficult to get an agreement on.

What else? Exempting Britain from ever closer union.

We don't want that because we are not interested in a United States of

Europe, because Mr Cameron is looking for some sort of language to

give us an opt out. Restoring competitiveness in the EU. Who is

going to disagree with that? You could probably get a deal there

without too much sweat, that is trying to reduce regulation, getting

more liberalisation of the internal market in terms of services. You

will probably get a deal on that. When you listen to the President of

the Council, he is saying good progress is being made. But a

warning. A couple of things one has to bear in mind. This is

extraordinarily complicated, and just talking to one body in Downing

Street last night, he said Steven was coming out of the ears of people

trying to pull it is so difficult to get all of this wrapped up and

legally watertight, and above all what is legally difficult is getting

everyone to agree to a hugely controversial proposal. So, some way

to go yet, Joanna. Good stuff, lots of clarity there.

Well, let's speak to two Tory MPs with two different view

Damian Green wants to stay in the EU - while Anne Marie Trevelyan wants

Damian, would you stay what may, or is it predicated on him getting what

he wants on those points? There are two stages, that Britain does

benefit hugely, we are safer and stronger inside the European Union,

but absolutely, the union needs to reform. All the substantial and

difficult things that normal was talking about a worthwhile, and it

would make it even more worth while Britain's Damian, which is why I'm

so pleased they appear to be making aggressor. Even if he gets nowhere?

He isn't going to get nowhere, he has already got somewhere. It does

seem that those who said this was impossible have been proved wrong,

and those who said this wasn't substantial, that he wasn't asking

for much are also being proved wrong. These are serious

negotiations on serious subjects. Adam Reach rebellion, you want out.

-- Annemarie Trevelyan. It was a very limited attempt at a

renegotiation. I think the British people really want to be in a wide

trading relationship. I was four years old when most people voted

last time, but people say they want something that is trading, that is

eyed woodworking, that doesn't restrict us. It isn't about more

competitiveness within the EU. Written is a global country, and I

want us to be free to be to expand how we trade and have relationships

across the world, not being sucked into the small part of the only

unfailing currency union in the world. We can do better than that,

but we need to take control of so many more decisions, and I think the

PM hasn't had the opportunity to ask for more. He asked for what he might

be able to negotiate, but we are seeing this belligerent behaviour on

the migrant edifice issue. If he is an able to persuade the Eurocrats

that this is important to the British people, how can we rely on

them to bring together the 27 other countries who would need to give us

the support to get those countries who would need to give us

that we absolutely must have for the British people's future? Damian

Green, talks between Donald Tusk and David Cameron at the moment, but

other countries need to agree. Absolutely, this is a difficult and

serious negotiation. Where she and I disagree is when she says we should

stop caring about Europe and care about the rest of the world, but the

two are not mutually extensive. You don't make it easier to export to

China by making it more difficult export to Germany and France, any

company will want to do both, so being of a group of friendly

democracies, which is what they all are, and our neighbours, seems

perfectly sensible. Pulling out of that, particularly at a time when

the world is so dangerous, would send exactly the wrong signal around

the world, it would say that Britain was pulling back from its

international obligations. It would cheer up Vladimir Putin and those

who hate democracy. Western democracies need to stick together.

From a security point of view, we are part of Nato and our security is

not predicated on our currency union within the EU. That is where the

federal direction is going, and if we were to stay within an outer

ring, remix the two up. From a security perspective, the

internationalisation and the challenges that we have with

terrorism, it is global. This isn't about one small EU pocket of the

world, and if written could take back control and maintain good

trading relationships, I completely disagree with the position that

there will somehow be an end to trade. It will be more difficult if

we're not part of a single market. There is a huge trade in both

directions, nobody will shut those doors, but I don't see why Britain

can't be more positive and outward looking if we can't see strong

positive messages coming from Europe which say that we understand that

Britain is a maritime nation, it is different needs to a different

relationship than the one that hasn't been going on in the

direction for us. Just to clarify what you mean on that. There is a

huge amount of trade. Why hasn't it been working? It is, but even if we

vote to leave and take back control of our nation and our borders and

taxation and all those issues which are subsumed by the directives that

we are all part of the moment, which I think is a drag on Britain and a

permanent frustration to so many people I talk to every day, that we

can't find a good trading relationship between Great Britain,

the European framework in whatever developing road it takes towards a

federal Europe, that we can she continued to sell cars to us, we

want to sell whiskey to the French, that will continue. You have both

focused on trade. Migration, and the changes to benefits, will it make a

difference? I think people draw a distinction between people who come

here to work and people who come here to claim benefits. And this is

precisely what he is try to deal with. The two islet, because

countries like Norway that have a relationship with Europe as

described by Anne-Marie still have to have free movement of people, so

she achieved her way, we would still probably have the same level of

migration, so it is a complete smoke screen to say it would solve that

problem. The frustration of watching Donald Tusk and the difficulty of

his negotiations, this is still this emergency brake, it strikes me as a

nothing, because it is still saying that Europeans would decide if we

can have it. The message that the British people want to get through

to the European leaders is that Britain needs to take control of its

borders, that is not saying that we would still want a German nurse Broc

Parkes doctor, because we might need those in our NHS what we train our

own, but we must be able to determine it for ourselves. Why can

we not taking a Sierra Leone doctor who wants to come in Britain Agazzi

as family here? We can't because our numbers are so high already that the

European movement limits how we determine who comes in, and we need

to be to do that. Thank you both very much. We will no doubt get you

back in the months ahead. Still to come: We

speak to the father of Private Cheryl Jones,

who died of a gunshot wound aged 18 He's to give evidence at the second

inquest into her death more than 20 Some of your comments coming in,

let's not forget the bankers and the regulators, Kids Company trustees

should be banned from being trustees of further charities. Now let's have

a weather up eight with Carol. It is pretty stormy. This picture

was sent in yesterday by one of our weather Watchers, huge waves

crashing against the shoreline of Cumbria. Today some of us will see

that very scenario, because storm Henry is going to be battering our

shores. It is game to be windy right across the British Isles, the

strongest winds in the North of England. If we take a look at some

of the gusts that you can expect as we go through the course of the day,

we are looking at in excess of 40, 50, 60, even 80 mph. It will be a

nasty rush-hour across the central lowlands. But it is really with

exposure in the West, so the Outer Hebrides, the Western Isles, gusts

to 90 mph, and this is where the Met office has an amber be prepared

warning. To put it into context, we see gusts of 90 miles an hour at

lower levels roughly once a Troisi, and we have already had that on

Friday and we are expecting it again later today full of on Friday we had

Storm Gertrude, and Shetland saw a gust of wind at 101 mph. With wind

speeds up to that level, it will cause structural damage, there will

be trees uprooted, branches on the road, and large waves which could

lead to some coastal flooding. The wind will continue to strengthen

through the day, peaking for some later this afternoon, for others

this evening and maintaining a strong feel as we go through the

course of the night. Today's forecast, as well as increasing wind

strength, we have a lot of cloud and rain around, pushing down towards

the size, leaving brighter skies behind. Some of the showers

especially across Scotland will be wintry in the mountains, and a lower

level we will see a mixture of hail, sleet and snow. As we go through the

evening and overnight, the strongest winds prevail. We are looking in

Scotland this afternoon at pretty gusty winds, and look at those

temperatures, they are coming down as we go through the course of the

day rather than up. Continuing to strengthen in Scotland, Northern

Ireland and northern England. If you are travelling on some of the higher

routes, for example lack Trans Pennine routes, and you are in a

high sided or light vehicle, bear that in mind full. Across Wales, the

winds will be strong but not as noticeable. Into the evening, these

are the kind of wind speed levels we are looking at. Nasty travelling

conditions, especially with exposure and in western Scotland where we are

looking at gusts of up to 90 mph. Through the evening and overnight,

we continue with the strong winds, it will be a colder nights than the

one just gone, the rain clearing eventually from the south coast of

England but remaining across the Channel Island, and tomorrow morning

we will have very strong winds, so do expect some disruption.

Disruption likely later today, tonight and tomorrow morning

anywhere from North of England northwards, and tomorrow morning

will still be blowing a gale across the central lowlands for the

rush-hour full up tomorrow is a day of sunshine and showers once again,

blustery winds for England and Wales, but the wind is slowly

starting to ease in the North through the course of the day, and

once again we will be looking at wintry showers.

a second inquest into the death of a teenage army recruit 20 years ago

opens again today. The father of Private Cheryl Jones tells us he

wants answers. It is the last chance, and that is what I have said

on the appeal, if these people don't have the courage to step up and

speak now, that I don't think they will have another chance.

Lots of you have been getting in touch about Kids Company, a new

report blames an extraordinary catalogue of failures for the

collapse of the charity. The policy of the charity was to spend the

money as soon as it came in, that is why she was was running out of money

because she just spent it, and nobody could control what she spent.

Plus MPs are debating changes to winning's pensioners today which

could set up to half a million women working for longer and retiring on

less than they were expecting. We will debate the changes with dew MPs

shortly. And we will meet two young transgender men who have recently

returned home to Jamaica to reveal their new identities to their

families. Now a summary of the main news this

morning. We start with some breaking news, because just hearing that UK

scientists have been given the go-ahead to genetically modify human

embryos for the first time. It is hoped the research will help

understand the genes human embryos need to develop successfully.

Experiments will take place on embryos in the first week after

fertilisation, and could help to combat infertility and miscarriages.

MPs investigated the charity Kids Company say an extra robbery

catalogue of failures led to its collapse last year. The report

blames those running the charity, its Trustees, auditors, regulators

and ministers. Its former chief executive Camila Batmanghelidjh has

called the document a product of bias and rumour. Earlier, the chair

of the group of MPs buying the report had this to say: I think she

had a fantastic commission, great vision, but she must have been very

difficult to work with. If you are running a large charity, you have to

work with some discipline. You have to accept others, except the

discipline of others, except that you are not the big deal.

David Cameron and European Council President Donald Tusk are set

for a day of talks about renegotiating the UK's relationship

with the EU today, which Mr Tusk has described as crucial.

A meeting last night ended without a deal,

though a Downing Street source said there had been a breakthrough

on restricting benefits for EU migrants.

The World Health Organisation will hold an emergency meeting today

to decide if the outbreak of the Zika virus should be

The mosquito-borne virus, which has been linked to thousands

of severe birth defects in Brazil, could affect up to 4 million

Books of condolence will be opened for Sir Terry Wogan this morning

He died after a short illness yesterday at the age of 77.

The mayor said the books would allow people to pay tribute to a true son

of Limerick and a broadcasting institution.

Now we can catch up with the sport. Olly Foster as the latest on John

Terry's future at Chelsea and the transfer window. After spending his

whole career at Stamford Bridge, John Terry, the Chelsea captain,

announced he would be leaving the club at the end of the season

because they will not renew his contract. Let's bring in the former

Leicester and Scotland defender Matt Elliot. You played against John

Terry at Stamford Bridge. Captain, leader, legend, it says. Comment

saying that it would be stupid to let him go. He is a massive name,

and everything that is good about Chelsea over the period of his

career. The timing of the statement has surprised people as well, in the

middle of the transfer window. A lot of Chelsea fans will be disappointed

because it seems like an end of an era and John Terry's time at the

club seems to be coming to an end. Slightly muddying the waters, the

club has released their own statement, saying dialogue is

still open and nothing is on the table at the moment but that might

change with a new manager coming in in the summer, but I suppose John

Terry cannot wait that long if he has a couple of years left in him.

Different factors come into play. Another manager coming in, does John

Terry want to stay at the club? Is it a negotiation tactic? Does he

want to look to the other side of the Atlantic to America? It is a

popular place these days. We will hear more about this subject when we

get a final result. Transfer deadline day closes at 11 o'clock

for the Premier League and midnight in Scotland. Spending in the Premier

League this season could exceed ?1 billion for the first time, which is

eye-watering. Yes, crazy times, but it is a natural evolution in some

ways. The amount of money that is at stake and the rewards are enormous

these days. You see that in the fact it is predominantly the bottom

clubs, the teams in the lower regions of the league, then

Norwichs, Bournemouths and Newcastles are the primary spenders.

Arsenal have not really delved. Leicester are having a little dabble

and looking to bring someone in. Newcastle are after Saido Berahino

from West Brom, digging in their heels, and they have blocked the

move to Tottenham Hotspur. Is he worst ?21 million? Debatable but he

is a goal-scorer and worth a lot of money. Financial rewards could come

in next season for Newcastle and Tottenham. If West Brom want to keep

him, they cannot keep him on the terms that he is at the moment. A

Catch-22 situation. Thank you your thoughts. 13 hours until we find out

which players are going where. Across the BBC there is the transfer

deadline special. At 11:15pm and also on BBC five live, and we have

just got time to tell you that Johanna Konta has pulled out of the

Fed cup team, Judy Murray's team, because of an intestinal problem.

She had that great run in the Australian Open, getting to the

semifinals, but she has left the team in a hole because they were

banking on her to anchor the team in Israel this week. That is a

disappointment. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. We are on

the BBC News Channel and BBC Two and online until 11 o'clock this morning

and we will bring you breaking news stories including more information

on scientists being given permission to genetically modify and human

embryos for the first time in the UK. And more on the collapse of Kids

Company and the report blaming a catalogue of errors. I worked for

drama therapist for Kids Company going into schools all over London

doing workshops for a few years and the administration was absolutely

appalling. I would always chase that my invoices and I was paid late

every time I work for them. There was a high turnover of staff and I

never spoke to the same person twice. It seemed like chaos. I still

have an outstanding amount owed to me, which

is not insubstantial, especially considering I am a working mother of

three, and there are lots of therapists who remain unpaid and we

have got to write off the losses because we don't know how to extract

the money. And this one, the Charity Commission must have more teeth. And

Ian tweets, I hope there are audits of other charities to see exactly

where any incoming money goes. Thank you for all of your comments and

please keep in touch. Text messages will be charged at the standard

network rate. Wherever you are, you can watch the programme online

through the BBC News app or the website.

A new inquest will open today into the death of a teenage army

recruit at Deepcut Barracks 20 years ago.

18 year old Private Cheryl James was found with a single bullet wound

Four young recruits died there between 1995 and 2002.

There was a brief inquest three weeks

after Private James' death which recorded an open verdict.

In 2002 Surrey Police began an investigation into all four

deaths at the base and found no evidence of foul play.

In 2014 her parents won the right to a new inquest.

Our correspondent June Kelly has been speaking to her father Des

Cheryl was very bright from an early age. She quickly picked things up.

She did really well in her junior school. She was always bubbly, the

centre of attention, a terrible giggler. She was impossible to tell

off from a very early age, until she died actually. Whenever I try to put

the stern face on and tell her off, she would just giggle. It was so

difficult. She couldn't help it. She just carried on doing it and in the

end we would all burst out laughing. That is a really good memory. What

about the weeks before her death? Again, she spent the majority of

their time... She was only at Deepcut Barracks for five weeks. At

that time she was coming home and there was nothing noticeable. We

certainly didn't detect anything. God knows we have relived those

visits. My wife had away. She could tell. If she was worried about

something, she would spot it, you know. Then she didn't come home as

often from the other barracks because she was settling in and

having a good time, we guessed. Then what happened was at the end of her

time at Leconfield, when she passed her HGV licence, the last time we

saw her was on the 22nd of October that year. She had her 18th birthday

and came home for that. Then she went back, so we had not seen over

five weeks. She was only back at Deepcut Barracks for ten days before

she died. It was a very time before she died. Clearly something went on.

Do you think Cheryl could have taken her own life? Yes, of course she

could have. I am not disputing that. If the evidence can show me that she

took her own life, then of course that is what she did. But there

isn't any evidence. That is the point. The army were, in my opinion,

very easily convinced it was a suicide and I don't know why. Much

more to the point, the police were easily convinced it was a suicide

and they didn't even investigate the death. In 2002, Surrey Police began

an investigation and they found no evidence of a crime. What did you

think of that investigation? I would say within a matter of months the

investigation... It opened in July and certainly by September my wife

and I had separately come to the opinion that they were just carrying

out a cursory review of what they considered to be a suicide. It did

not feel like an investigation to us, that is the shore. Coming in to

the new inquest with more than 100 witnesses potentially, that is a lot

of people coming forward. Yes, it is. My view on that is that in 95

there were undoubtedly people afraid, kids, 16, 17, 18-year-olds.

At that time, I absolutely believe them. I know there are allegations

now, but too many of them have made it clear that they were too afraid

to speak out. What you have got to remember is that in 2002, when the

BBC got hold of the story, and there was talk of a public inquiry and so

on, and Surrey Police began their investigation, I think what you had

then was an emboldened view because they were 2425, a bit braver, they

had left the forces, and they came. -- 24 or 25. Some of these kids are

now 40 and there is hardly any fear at all. They are mature with

children of their own and they realise how serious it was. I think

there are lots of allegations out there that have got to be heard. The

problem is there is no mechanism for them to be heard at the moment

because clearly Surrey Police have ignored them. There has been an

allegation that the night before she died Cheryl may have been raped.

Yes. Or ordered by an officer to have sex with a private the night

before she died. Yes. That is obviously very distressing. But it

is an allegation. Over the years they have built up this mechanism.

It is an allegation and you park it at one side of your head and we wait

and see what happens. Every time we raised these allegations to the

armed forces minister all those years ago, his response was always

that they are only allegations and they have not been investigated and

we don't know anything about them. In effect, that is where I am. They

are allegations. There are lots of allegations but I think it is very

important that we hear them, even just because of the volume of them.

There are so many we cannot just dismiss them as fabricating stories,

telling lies. There are too many allegations here. What we have also

got to remember is that when Nicholas Blake conducted his review,

the MoD was saying we will look at these. OK, if you have looked at

them and investigated them, let us know what the results are there. How

many have been investigated and how many people have been punished and

gone to prison? I think it is quite wrong that the MoD can throw out

these sound bites like zero tolerance and we have fixed it

without having to justify it in any way and make themselves accountable.

I don't know if they have fixed it because I don't know what it was

they were trying to fix. If you haven't had an investigative process

into those allegations collectively, if you haven't had the courage to

analyse what went on there, how on earth do you know what you are

trying to fix? It is just impossible to define. I haven't seen any

evidence that that cultural issue, that cultural problem that was going

on at Deepcut Barracks, that it has been addressed and the MoD continued

to deny it and that makes it even more difficult. If they deny there

was a cultural issues any questions almost beginning under false

pretences. That is my point. I think that if indeed it turns out that

Cheryl or any of the other three did take their own lives, and there was

bullying going on and a bit of alcohol and a bit of a drugs

culture, we cannot just let these things go past. We have to

understand how that can was being run, what was going on, and what

mindset that was creating in the 17 and 18-year-old kids who were

clearly vulnerable. That sexual allegation is hard for a father to

hear? It is, it is horrific. I would have always protected her, so it is

very difficult. That is your worst nightmare, I think I should have

been there and I could have sorted it. But what can you do? You just

have to wait and see what happened. And the inquest will also hear about

ballistic evidence? Yes. Which you and your lawyers were saying was not

examined properly at the time. That is going to be very significant? I

think it is very significant, and I think it is significant because it

has not been done before, and I was told in 2002 in a letter from the

MoD that there was no reason to take fingerprints off the weapon because

it would have been pointless as it was a pool weapon. Surrey Police and

many other experts have told me since that that was nonsense, so why

would the MoD sending the letter? Who told them to send that letter to

me? How can they send letters like that but I clearly incorrect, on

true. It is just cruel. Do you think this is your best hope

of finding out what happened? There is no doubt. I do think this can be

resurrected again. I think that we will just see where this takes us,

and that is why I am so pedantic about the process. I can't keep

quiet about the 23,000 documents, we can't just let that slip I've. I

think it is the last chance, and that is why I have said that on the

appeals. If these people don't have the courage to step up and speak

now, then I don't think they will have another chance. The father of

drive it Cheryl James. "Our thoughts remain with the family

and friends of Private Cheryl James. The inquest will now be a matter

for the coroner, but we will of course continue to cooperate

with and provide support Still to come before 11: Syria peace

talks in Geneva are due to start again today after attempts

failed last week. Two former International Development

Secretaries have recently visited the region near the

Syrian-Turkish border. He says that the communities are

guilty of lack of action. We will be talking to him.

Next, meet Steffan Zachiyah and Romario Wanliss,

two transgender men who live in the UK but have just returned

from Jamaica where they came out to their families

for an extraordinary Radio 1 Newsbeat documentary.

Jamaica is considered to be one of the most homophobic

and transphobic countries in the world but despite the risks

they both wanted to tell their family why they're

in the process of transitioning from female to male.

Here's the moment when Steffan met his eldest brother Gilla.

Today, I'm going to be revealing my transition

for the first time in two years, to my brother.

I don't know what the outcome is going to be.

I don't want to have any expectations.

He is a brother from my father's side but he's been there a lot,

when I was living in Jamaica, in 2001.

The house I'm going to visit today, it's my parents' house.

It's going to remind me of going to school, how I used

to dress, over here it was so strict on how males looked

We had to wear skirts, knee high, it was a depressing time but I hid

it so much because I wanted to blend in.

I'm thinking about it and I feel emotional already.

The last time I came to Jamaica, I was dressed way more feminine,

Even though I was more masculine in the UK,

I had to kind of like add some touch of femininity,

extensions in my hair, more of a tomboy look.

I tried to do it to please everyone around me, especially my mum,

But coming here now, who I am today, I feel free,

I've changed my name, started medically transitioning.

I don't know if you can see the physical changes?

I'm now just living my life as myself.

And you can watch the full Radio 1 Newsbeat documentary

Transgender Back to Jamaica on the Radio 1 Channel

We can speak to both Romario and Steffan now.

Thank you both for coming in. You were upbeat there. Did you feel

nervous? That was someone who had known you as a girl and had no idea

until that moment that you are transitioning? I was very nervous,

but the suspense of it just made me feel like I am living my life is

mean out, what is the point of holding back? If it wasn't the BBC

News beat, I would have to come out either way, so I thought, let's get

straight to the point. This is me, face it, or never face it at all.

Why was it important for you to go there and face it? Your mum is here,

you have lived most of your life here, but obviously you do still

have family in Jamaica. It was important to me because I feel like

I need to affirm my identity, so I want people to be addressing me as

the person who I am now rather than the person I was, so for me to go

back there to my brother in Jamaica just meant to me that it was closure

on Stefanie. Did you get that? He still was calling you she. It can't

change overnight. People around me will be transitioning as well as

myself. So I have room for that. I can allow them their transition as

well as myself. He looked shocked when he first saw you, but then said

very nicely, you when he first saw you, but then said

as yourself. What was the reaction you had from others? Was everybody

as understanding? My family, again, it wasn't shocking for them, some of

them, because it was like a build-up anyway, but it was hard for some of

them to accept, because it was again something out of the norm. It is not

normal in their eyes, but now their minds are changing and they are

beginning to come more accepting, and I am happy about that. Romario,

you went back to Jamaica as well. Tell us what it was like for you. It

was really nerve wracking. It was about a decade before hired actually

went to Jamaica, and I was always scared because of my history with my

father. Tell us more about your story. You said you were worried

about going back because of your father. Tell us the history there. I

was born in Jamaica, I grew up there, I came here because my mum

asked me to come. By this time I was homeless, and my father and I had

fell out. I thought it was due to my sexuality at the time, so he found

out that I liked girls, and to me, it felt like emotional abuse,

physical abuse, and I couldn't take it any more, so I left the family

home, I left my sisters and brothers, I just turned my back on

the life in Jamaica. When I came here, I realised I had the

opportunity to transition, and that is when I started to medically

transition. I was scared about judgment, so I was just really

scared. It is the simplest way I could did. So what was it like to go

back? It was up and down, because I had my best friend, so there was

high moments like we were doing this together, and then low moments where

we were about to do it and I didn't even know if my dad would show up.

But it was really important for us to share that story. How was your

dad? You have to watch the documentary to find out! Deveson

clue. Did you get the sense that he knew you had transitioned? In my

mind, as far as I know personally, yes. Before coming down, my sister

had spoken to him and let him know I was coming and this is who I am now,

so much am I believe it was the first time that he actually was

like, this is a boy that is coming down, but I know this person to be a

girl, I know this person to be my daughter, and I commend him to

showing up, and he said that it was difficult for him to show up. My

reaction was very surprisingly I was surprised by his reaction to me. And

how do you feel now about it? I am happy I did it as I have a sense of

closure on that side of my life. We are also pioneering because we are

showing people that even though you come from this country, this country

that might be deemed very homophobic, there is hope, you can

go out there and still represent your culture and still be

trans-all-day. -- you can still be trans or you can be gay. Romario and

Steffan, thank you for talking to us. But documentary is available on

the iPlayer, and to find out more about their story, you can watch the

full News beat Kim entry on the radio one channel on the BBC

iPlayer. Thank you for joining us today.

Still to come before 11: UK scientists have been given

the go-ahead to genetically modify We will bring you more of this

breaking story. Driving 25,000 miles in two years to

see their daughter. One father has to readily make a 300 mile journey

to visit his daughter in a psychiatric unit because there are

no beds closer to home. Now a summary of the main news this

morning. We will bring you more on the breaking news we have just been

talking about. UK scientists have been given

the go-ahead to genetically modify Fergus Walsh is here to tell us

more. What are they going to be able to do? This is a team at the crick

institute and they are going to take donated embryos left over from IVF

research which our one-day old, frozen, so not put to any other use,

and they will use a new system of gene editing that enables them to

take out, modify, one gene out of 30,000. I think the best way to

describe this is that in every cell of our body we have this code of

life, this Genoa, that we often talk about. Imagine it like a big set of

encyclopaedias. What this gene editing system can do is take

metaphorically one Encyclopaedia of the shelf, look up one page, and

take out one word or edit it. It has only been discovered in the last few

years, this system, and it is revolutionising medical research.

What they are going to be able to do is look at all of the genes that are

involved in the most early stages of human development and see what

effect it has when they edit them. What is the potential here? This

particular team is looking at why some women repeatedly miscarry. They

will be looking at the early embryos when they are smaller than a speck

of dust, maybe between 20 and 200 cells big. Of those cells, some of

them go on to form the placenta and others the foetus. They are trying

to understand which of the genes are crucial to the safe and proper

development of a baby in the uterus. By doing this research, ultimately

they hope it might lead to a better understanding of miscarriage and

maybe better treatments and faster, more accurate IVF. Extraordinary

what they could be doing. If the UK at the cutting edge of this? It

certainly is. This regulator is the first in the world to approve this

and many countries do not have regulators. Britain will be the

second country after China to permit this. Last year a Chinese team said

they had done this gene editing in embryos. In the United States, for a

sample, federal funding is not permitted to allow this but private

funding is. If we go back to Louise Brown in 1978, the UK has always

been at the forefront of embryo and IVF and fertility research, and this

is another example of that. Is there much controversy surrounding this

and ethical issues? All the main medical research bodies support

this. It will make some people instinctively queasy, the idea of

editing the book of life. If that's embryo was ever to be implanted, and

it won't be in these cases, then you could lead to the slippery slope of

designer humans. Emphatically that is against the law. But knowing that

something is possible might mean that in some other part of the world

it could one day be done. It is something that we need to keep a

close ethical eye on. Thank you. MPs investigating the charity,

Kids Company, say an extraordinary catalogue of failures led

to its collapse last year. Their report blames those

running the charity, its trustees, auditors,

regulators and ministers. Its former chief executive,

Camila Batmanghelidjh, has called the document

a product of bias and rumour. Earlier on this programme the chair

of the group of MPs behind the report had this to say

on Ms Batmanghelidjh. I think she had a fantastic

commission, great vision, but you must have been very difficult to

work with. If you are running a large charity, you have to have some

discipline. You have to be able to work with others and accept the

discipline of others. You have to accept you are not the big deal.

David Cameron and European Council President Donald Tusk are set

for a day of talks about renegotiating the UK's relationship

with the EU today, which Mr Tusk has described as crucial.

A meeting last night ended without a deal,

though a Downing Street source said there had been a breakthrough

on restricting benefits for EU migrants.

The World Health Organisation will hold an emergency meeting

today to decide if the outbreak of the Zika virus should be declared

The mosquito-borne virus, which has been linked to thousands

could affect up to 4 million people this year.

Books of condolence will be opened for Sir Terry Wogan this morning

He died after a short illness yesterday at the age of 77.

The mayor said the books would allow people to pay tribute to a true son

of Limerick and a broadcasting institution.

We can now catch up with all the sport on transfer deadline day. It

has been a frantic day. The transfer window closes tonight with an air

leak spending set to break ?1 billion in a single season for the

first time. The biggest signing could be Saido Berahino. Newcastle

have bits ?21 million for him but West Brom are digging in their

heels. He scored a couple of times at the weekend in the cup. Toss

wanted him last summer and Stoke could also be after his signature.

-- Tottenham wanted him. You can follow the drama as it unfolds

across the BBC today. John Terry, the Chelsea captain, said he will

leave the club at the end of this season because he has not been

offered a new contract but the club say that could change and dialogue

is open. John Terry has spent his entire career at Stamford Bridge and

he will keep playing, he said, but not in England. Johanna Konta has

broken into the top 30, following a fantastic run in the Australia Open,

where she reached the semifinals before losing to the eventual

champion Angelique Kerber. She has pulled out of the fed Cup team in

Israel because of intestine issues. And Andy Murray is in the air on the

way back home after losing in the final to Novak Djokovic. He has made

the swift departure to be with his wife who is expecting her first

child very soon. She just have to hang on a little bit longer. That is

all the sport. We hope she can! Thank you.

MPs will debate changes to women's pensions today,

which could see up to half a million women retire on less

Last week on the programme we heard from Wendy.

She was only told two years ago that her retirement age

She had been planning to retire next week on her 60th birthday.

Now she says she'll have to work for six more years.

In June 2013, a letter saying my state based on age is going up from

65 to 66. -- state pension age. I did not know it was going up to 65

let alone 66. I actually phoned the DWP up because I thought it was a

mistake and then I found out that the state pension age had gone up in

the pensions act in 1995 but I had not been told about that. This

letter comes 18 years after that pensions act in 1995. It took them

18 years to let me know about this. Starting work when I was 16, I was

always told it would be 60. All my working life I believed it was 60. I

was told it was put out on the radio and in the newspapers. I didn't hear

about it on the radio and I certainly didn't see it in the

newspapers. How am I supposed to think in 1995, oh, I must put the

radio on because there might be a report about my retirement. You just

don't think ahead like that. In 1995I was 39, working, travelling,

doing things with the family, with friends, and I was not thinking

about my retirement. I was devastated actually. I thought I

could retire at 60 and I was going to do some travelling while I am

still fit to go and enjoy life a bit. To find out I cannot retire at

60 and have to wait another six years is an awful lot. Now I am

Speaking on was Wendy. Speaking on

Radio 4's Today programme, the Pensions Minister,

Lady Altmann, says the changes will make the state

However she's surprised that people are unaware of the changes.

the idea that the state pension age which was changed in 1995 from 860

is something people don't know about 20 years later in 2015 is really,

really exercising to me. The women's state pension age has been rising

for nearly six years. It is now 63. It has not been 60 for a long time.

Social Care and Carers. Well,

She feels this change was brought in too quickly with

Conservative MP Craig Mackinlay sits on the House of Commons' Work

it is something that needed to happen.

thank you both for joining us. Do you agree with Baroness Altman went

to says that the idea that people did not know is exercising her? The

WASPI women have launched a fantastic campaign on this and I

don't think any MP in a land has not heard about this campaign and they

have probably had women in their surgeries about this discussing the

problems they have had. The legislation started in 1995 and a

lot of women are saying they did not receive a personalised letter until

a few years ago. That is certainly possible. Before I was an MP, that

knowledge was sort of out there that these changes were happening and 60

was going to be changing to 65. It has obviously accelerated past that

now. I have a feeling it was known about but if there is a lack of

communication, I think the Government has learned something and

must do better in the future. So what are you saying to women like

Wendy who just did not know? In 1995 she was not looking out for

something like that. She did not hear about it and got a big shock

all those years later and now she has got to work longer than she

expected. Are you just saying it is tough? No. The committee is looking

at various options and suggestions to see if there is some kind of

transitional arrangement that might be acceptable to DWP. Going back to

first principles, we have got to accept that we are all living longer

and that is something to celebrate. It is not uncommon when you read the

local press that you see people in the obituary column living to their

late 90s. The thought of 40 years of pensions is something that is just a

different world. The reality was that when the pension age was 60,

people did not have a huge life expectation and they were lucky to

reach 80 and now living until 100 is not uncommon. In terms of equality

it was right that we had a change to unequal age is between men and women

and I don't think many people would object to that. But this transition

from going to the old to the New will always be tough. I will listen

hard and I have every sympathy. We have a woman who is younger than her

husband, her husband has died and yet she will receive nothing until

she is 66. There are tough cases on the edges but it is like anything.

If you try and make changes, some people will be happy and something

will pop up where you least expect it, like a balloon. What is your

opinion on this? Craig Mackinlay has been pretty clear this was a long

time coming. It was but few have heard from Wendy that she did not

know about it and I have constituents in the same position. I

want to take issue with what Craig were saying about life expectancy.

The year these changes were brought in, life expectancy fell. Thanet is

very different to Salford, where there is some of the worst life

expectancy in the country. Some people in my constituency will only

be drawing their pension for something like six years after 66

and healthy life expectancy stops in the mid 50s. Are you saying the

pension age should not have been changed at all? I am not saying that

but we have to take account of the fact that not everybody is healthy

and not everybody lives until they are 90. But how do you address that?

We cannot have a pick and mix situation.

A number of these women are suffering real hardship, maybe from

health problems, may be they are carers, maybe they have been made

redundant. There are no arrangements made at all despite the fact that

Iain Duncan Smith promised there would need transitional

arrangements. You did mention there may be various options you are

looking at. One option that I personally have some favour with is

perhaps having a lower amount early, so that overall, the cost of a

lifetime of pension will be the same, but it would be discounted

amount having earlier. The cost of completely reversing those 1995

changes, which was the tail end of the Conservative Government back

then, these changes went through the whole Labour government and were

enhanced and improved upon, went through Parliament, everybody

agreed, and the 2011 change, the one that is causing the most upset. What

could be considered is a lower amount of longer, and that would

mean that .Mac accurately is looking at what that might be. -- the

Government actuaries. That would be a calculation that needed to be had.

But I would have some sympathy with that, because it would be cost

neutral and would get some women who are stuck between 60 and 66 some

money now. It is good that people like Craig are not entirely

supported what they Government has done and think there have to be

differences made, but we have the lowest state pension payments almost

in the world, only Mexico comes in lower than we do. And you are

talking about an even lower amount. We need arrangements for people who

can't work, who have been made redundant like Wendy in the film. We

need arrangements for people who are carers. Why should all the weight of

pension equalisation fall on this one decade of women?

You have support payments for people. And you have sanctions, you

sanction people and leave them with nothing to live on at 62 and 63.

This is too harsh for this group of women. Your Government didn't think

it through. Barbra, it was your Government as well that started

this. In 2011, your government broke a pledge in your manifesto and

speeded up these changes. It falls to hard on women, and you know that

you need to think this through, do what Iain Duncan Smith promised and

bring in transitional arrangements. I have just offered what I think

would he a fairly fair arrangement, and in opposition, you're just

saying it is all wrong and it should be ripped up. We are just about out

of time, but you have said you have put forward that idea. Have you any

reason to suspect that the Department for Work and Pensions

would supported? The select committee comes up with lots of

ideas, and they are well thought through after receiving lots of

evidence, and I think that one has some links to it. We should be

reported in the next few days, and DWP will look at that and see what

they think. Thank you both very much. Let us

know what you think, and a Department for Work and Pensions

spokesperson has told us that the decision to equalise the state

pension for men and women dates back to 1995 and corrects a long-standing

inequality was the usual the state pension remains affordable for

future generations. Women retiring today can still expect to receive

the state pension of 26 years on average, 26 years longer than men.

Still to come: A former international development minister

who has just returned from Syrian refugees visiting tiles as the

international community is guilty of a grotesque lack of action and

effectiveness in Syria. We will be talking to him.

A family who have driven over 25,000 miles in two years

to visit their teenage daughter in a psychiatric unit

say it's a national disgrace she couldn't get a bed

18-year-old Chloe Hodge has severe anxiety and PTSD.

A shortage of beds near her home in Cornwall means she's spent two

years in a mental health unit 300 miles away.

Last year the Government admitted mental health services for children

and young people in England were in need of a complete

overhaul and promised to prioritise improved care as close

to home as possible for children

Chloe Hodge's father says keeping her so far

away from her family is a breach

Thank you very much for joining us. Tell us why she is so far away? Tell

us more about the history of the treatment she has had. The problems

happened with Chloe when she hit puberty. Then we discovered that

there is no out of hours, out of office care for young people with

mental health issues in Cornwall at all. In fact, one night she actually

spent in the kitchen of the police station, because the police took her

away, the hospital wouldn't accept her, so she spent the night wrapped

in a blanket in the kitchen at the local police station, and then the

episodes increased and she was taken away to Somerset, put in a

residential placement which didn't have any mental health speciality,

and she was moved on then to Stevenage, which also didn't have

any mental health support in-house. She stopped taking her medication,

made herself really ill, and she was moved to Colchester, which is 350

miles away from us, and after a period, she was then moved to Kent

house. So now at the age of 18 she is in Wales? She is in Wales. What

happened,... What has the impact been on her and your family of her

being so far away? It has been ongoing. The problems are that she

is a youngster, she is poorly, and we have just not been able to

support her. She has got no chance of home leave. She has been cut off

from her family and her friends. And that has been ongoing. Now we have

this other problem where we have this arbitrary decision that when

she hits 18 she is just moved on. The people at Kent house did a good

job, they were finally getting somewhere with her thanks to the

hard work, but she just had to move, so she was shunted off to Wales.

There was no choice, no plan B. Every time she moves, there is only

one option. So now she is in Pontypridd, which is closer, but it

is still a good 200 miles. It is about three and a half hours from

us. What would you say to the people making decisions about where

resources are? What would you like to be done, what message would you

like people to hear? It is not just our family. There are 20 others in

Cornwall facing the exact same situation. There is a charitable

trust called the Invicta is trust, and they drew up plans to build a

unit in Cornwall. Those plans were ready about three years ago, they

had Landsdowne naked by Cornwall College, they went out to tender --

they had land donated by Cornwall College, it went out to tender, and

the so-called care commissioners have suddenly said there isn't a

need. Obviously there is a need, so basically, it is probably too late

for our daughter, but at any one time, there are 20 families in

Cornwall that would really benefit to have this unit built. Paul Hodge,

thank you for joining us and talking to us about your situation and your

daughter Chloe. We asked Cornwall partnership NHS Foundation Trust

with a response, but they were unable to supply us with one. NHS

England has issued a statement saying, we appreciate the strain

families can phrase when loved ones are far from home. While basement

are ideally close by, the specific needs and condition of each

individual can sometimes only be catered for at units that are

further away. The international community

is guilty of a grotesque lack Wightman about is the verdict of the

former international development minister Andrew Mitchell who has

just returned from visiting refugees on the Turkish Syrian border. He was

joined by Labour MP Clare Short, also a former international

development minister. I think the Turks have been

fantastically generous, they have 2.2 million refugees from Syria

here, of which 350,000 are in camps, with everything provided. The rest

are out in the community thanks to the generosity of local people. This

is a quality of camp that has cost them all together something like $8

billion since the crisis started. And they are not getting the

recognition. They are providing the bulk of support Syrian refugees, it

has cost them a lot of money, and they can't go on doing this unless

they get support from the international community. And the EU

has promised, but it isn't being delivered. They have done remarkably

well in dealing with the crisis. The Syrians would like to stay near

Syria, because they would like to go home as soon as possible, but they

have to be provided for or they will wander across the world try to find

somewhere where they can be safe. And it will be the people who have

something to contribute when the awful fighting is over who will be

gone. Because they can afford to move. Yes, and that is what the

world has got to address at this pledging conference next week, so

that the money goes to where it is really needed to ensure that Syria

can rebuild and has the resources to do so once it is over. Turkey gets

proper support from the enormous contribution. Yes.

Andrew Mitchell is here with me now. We saw you there in conversation

with Clare Short. This is in part a political, you are both talking

there about the importance of focusing resources in the region. If

and until the issues of Syria are resolved, these people are living in

limbo top whatever resources they are given to help them get through

life on a daily basis in refugee camps. It is worse than that,

because of course they are not getting the food that they require.

The world food programme is running at half the amount of food they need

to deliver to the refugees, and that money needs now to be provided by

the international community to the world food gram. One of the points

that Claire was making, and although we are very different political

bedfellows, we agree entirely on this, is that most of the Syrians we

match do not want to come to Europe. They want to stay in the region

until the fighting is over, and of course, if they stay, some of them

in camps, many more of them living in the local community, we must

ensure that the children go to school so that there isn't a whole

generation that are radicalised by this experience, and also that there

is enterprise and livelihoods and training adjacent to the camps where

they live so that when the fighting is over they are in a good position

to go back and rebuilt Syria. What about giving them a chance of a

better life in the meantime? Some of those you are meeting have been

there for four years. There has been criticism of UK policy in not taking

in more refugees, whether it is from the region from Europe, and just

today, a letter signed by a large number of top economist and former

Government, UN and World Bank officials has criticised the

response here. One of the signatories said it is a travesty to

suggest the breast in Britain can do in the midst of the worst refugee

crisis since the Second World War is to take in 4000 refugees annually

over five years. Do you think the UK should take in more? I think that is

an unwise and ill thought through intervention. Britain has done more

for the refugees than the entire European Union added together. We

have spent over ?1 billion helping refugees. At the conference

co-hosted by Kuwait and Norway this week, what they had to do is to get

other countries to pull their weight, to step up, and make sure

that people living in dreadful circumstances get the money from the

international community. Thank you very much. Thank you Fiona company

today, I will see you tomorrow. Goodbye.