22/02/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Monday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria,

welcome to the programme This morning: It's one of the most

important issues facing the UK - would Britain be better off

Plus our political guru will bring you the arguments

I will be getting out my political chain saw to cut through the jargon,

get to the key issues of what this referendum is really about. Never

mind the euro gobbledygook. Also on the programme: The daughter

of a 92-year-old woman who faces being deported back to South Africa

tells us she fears her mother could die if she's forced to leave

England. Should never have come here alone.

You are never alone in Grimsby. And Grimsby is fighting back -

it's launched a campaign saying it's nothing like the town portrayed

in a new film by the creator We're on BBC Two and the BBC

News Channel until 11 this morning. Throughout the morning we'll bring

you the latest breaking news and developing stories,

and as always, we're keen to hear from you on all the issues

we're covering today. Texts will be charged

at the standard network rate. Particularly keen to hear your views

on this question, which you'll hear regularly over the next few months:

Will the UK be better off in or out David Cameron will go

to Parliament this afternoon to present his argument for Britain

to remain in the EU. The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson,

who's tipped as a future leader of the Conservative party,

has been setting out his arguments for why he'll be

campaigning for out. But ultimately it's you -

the Great British public who'll decide the future of Britain's

relationship with the EU when you get to vote in a referendum

on Thursday 23rd June. In the meantime, you can

have your say on our programme. With us this morning,

our very own political guru Introduce yourself quickly

and set out your position. I am Holly, a student and I am in

for the freedom of movement. I am Kate Carr I am nutrient, I don't

think it will make a difference if we are in or out. I am definitely in

because the argument for exit is not coherent and will lead us into a

nightmare, I feel. I am Darren and I am excited for the opportunities

being part of the global communities after leaving the European Union. I

am Alexandra and I am so convinced the right thing to leave and I would

leave tomorrow. I am Hannah, I am pro-EU because I think the out

argument is fundamentally flawed and I staying in will help protect human

rights. I am Nigel, I am definitely out. I believe a leap in the dark,

is a step towards a golden future and I cannot believe how exciting it

will be. We will hear more from you in a few moments, but if we carry

on, Norman is with us. What has David Cameron negotiated? He

travelled thousands of miles, had 48 hours of intense negotiations and

eventually came up with this deal. Three key elements. The first is on

immigration. What he has got is an agreement that EU migrants, who come

to Britain, will no longer automatic access to the full level of tax

credits. In future they will have to wait years before they can get the

full tax credits. But there was another issue he was concerned

about, and that is when some EU migrants claim child in a fit the

children back in their home country. He hasn't quite got that stop. He

has an agreement that in future for new migrants it will be indexed

linked to the cost of living in their country and for existing

migrants, they will only get it for another four years. The second key

area where he has got a deal is on safeguarding the city. David Cameron

is concerned the city will be bossed about by the Eurozone. That the

Eurozone will cramp city's style with new banking regulations. What

he has got is an agreement that if he is concerned or the city is

concerned we can put upper hand and say, that is not good for us. But

what he can do about it is not clear beyond instigating a debate among

European leaders. The last critical area concerns the power of

Parliament. How much power do we have in Parliament, how much have we

handed over to Brussels, how many of our laws are coming from Brussels?

What Mr Cameron has got is a red card. What it means if we don't like

some EU legislation, in a pretty limited area, but if we don't like a

bit of EU legislation, we can club together with 16 other EU countries

and say no, we don't want it. We can stop it. That is the deal. More from

you in a moment, Norman. But let's get a flavour from the audience. A

good deal, Kate? Some extra deals, there is a huge element of us being

in the EU which is good. The right for the City of London to stay out

of the banking rules is good because we are very different elsewhere. I

do think that being able to come out of some of the rules is a good idea,

but having said that I think we are rubbish at implementing them anyway.

I don't think it helps so much. The big thing was having the pound

recognised. That was most important, we don't have to go in the Eurozone

and we don't have two bail other countries out. Hannah? I think the

deal is focusing on the wrong areas. Boris Johnson said yesterday coming

out will be the best thing for British people. I think Borat

benefits stigmatises refugees. If he wants to help richest people he

needs to negotiate the unilateral trade deal with China because cheap

imports of steel are jeopardising trade deal with China because cheap

entire communities in Wales. There trade deal with China because cheap

are so many jobs dependent import Tolbert on the steel industry and

because of the cheap imports from China, they are now at risk will

stop the people in Wales are at risk of losing their jobs. It is not just

the people in the steel industry, one in four jobs in the community,

such as people who work in the sandwich shops, the truck drivers,

their jobs also depend on that industry existing. To get rid of

something like that isn't OK. Nigel, you said you cannot wait when you

future, so I assume there is nothing David Cameron will have negotiated

to change mine? He has got a deal nobody wanted or for. It is based

around the Norway, Sweden type deal. When we are talking about becoming a

global trading hub in the future. We have had 40 years of marriage to the

European Union and it is like David Cameron has gone for some sort of

marriage counselling. But what we really want is a divorce. Norman,

run us through the main arguments on either side. We have looked through

all the rhetoric to get to five basic arguments the centre of this

debate. The most are mated one -- emotive one centres on immigration.

Those who want to stay in say immigration is crying out for EU

workers, particularly big business. But also you think of the health

service, the farming sector, the service sector, you want to get a

leaky tap fixed, it will probably be a Polish plumber. Those who want to

get out say, we have lost control of our borders, we don't know who is

coming in or out, because if we are in the EU we have no control over EU

migrants coming in. There is nothing we can do, part of the EU rules and

that is why immigration is going up. The second key area is around

security. The Prime Minister has made this almost the centrepiece of

his argument. His view is we can cooperate with other European

countries to counter-terrorism, counter criminality and actually we

are safer staying in a bigger block. Those who want to leave, and we

heard from Iain Duncan Smith yesterday saying we are at more risk

of Paris style attack because we don't have control of our borders.

We cannot stop terrorists coming here, we are less able to police our

own borders. For many people, one of the deciding issues will be jobs.

Those who want to stay in, we'll say around 3 million jobs are tied up

with our membership of the European Union, we would be barking mad to

put those at risk. Those who want to get out would say, there would be a

job room if we went because we wouldn't be snarled up in endless

red tape and small businesses would find a new lease of life without

being burdened without all that extra EU regulation. Let's look at

trade. Those who want to stay in say it gives us access to the biggest,

single market without any barriers, no tariffs, we can trade freely.

Roughly about 45% of trade is with the European Union. Come on, why

would you want to put that at risk? Those who want to get out say, don't

be silly, we can negotiate new deals with other European countries. Think

about it, they trade more with us than we trade with them. They will

want to keep trading with us. If we pulled out, you expect the boss of

faults I can getting straight on the phone and saying to Angela Merkel,

for goodness sake, do a deal. The argument for David Cameron is the

City of London would be at risk if we get out and the big banks will

move. Michael Heseltine said Frankfurt and Paris would be running

up the flag to celebrate the demise of the city. Those who want to get

out say this city is a global power base and doesn't depend being part

of the Euro. It is scaremongering. But those are the five key arguments

which will probably shape this debate. Thank you, Norman. Norman

will join the audience. He will be our unofficial FAQ checker. So if

you come up with any particular porkies, Norman will look at it. We

were hearing all the key arguments, each of the shout out, which is the

key issue for you. Freedom. Trade. The economy. All of them. The head

of Europe has said there are 5000 trained Islamists fighters, this is

not the Daily Mail, it is scaremongering. Iain Duncan Smith,

yesterday. Isis themselves said they intended to use the free movement of

people to flood Europe with Isis fighters. Whether they were as

successful as they intended, the truth is if you have no borders or

controls, there is a risk. ALL TALK AT ONCE.

The politicians are coming out on both sides of this. The Home

Secretary say one of her key reasons saying voting for staying in is

security. You have Iain Duncan Smith saying staying in makes us more

vulnerable? My take on it is this, countries in of the EU and countries

out of the EU are on vulnerable to Isis attacks. They will find ways to

get around your controls whether you are in the union or out. I

understand the arguments, but I don't think they are a key arguments

on either side. We are dealing with people so determined and organised,

I think they would rather be get round whatever you had in place. It

is a more profound, existentialists threat. Let's turn our attention to

immigration because it is right at the top of voters' lists. What we

should have is an Australian style points system so we can judge

everyone from the rest of the world on their merits, just as we do with

Europe. Just because someone isn't within the European Union we have a

limit on how many people can come. It is so damages for businesses in

London. What do you think about figures on immigration? The nature

of the debate about being in the EU is that it is very difficult to

limit numbers. We should have control and decide as a country and

not have it imposed by Brussels on the rules of our borders. We should

look at every individual case and what we need for business. Instead

of saying, you are European, come in. Why are you against a

referendum? The scaremongering will be so much, there will be so much

money put in by Cameron and the EU propaganda there will be so few

facts. For you to say there is an increase in Paris style attacks, is

scaremongering. That is what the head of the European police think.

So what is your opinion? We will stick with immigration.

You have more Brits living in Spain. It is a very skewed argument. One

that has been tailored to pander this xenophobic element of the

League campaign. We tend to talk about immigration in the EU context.

Roughly half is non-EU. -- Leave. That matters because we have control

of that. Still, that immigration has increased. It raises the question,

if we pulled out would we be able to control immigration? One of the

things David Cameron floated the other day was, we are not going to

bother as we do at the moment in Calais and Dunkirk. In other words

we will say, go on through to Britain. That seems to be something

that the outside have to sort out. I don't like this xenophobic issue. It

is not about that, it is about numbers. Thousands of people came to

this country last year. You cannot plan and economy, a country, in

infrastructure, to cope with such a large number. Look at schools,

hospitals... Where are they going to live on the continent? All of these

factors are driven by an uncontrolled amount of immigration.

At the moment, with our open borders, you have a potential...

They are not open borders. You cannot control that. You were out,

Ayew, Darren? I am. The average voter doesn't care about numbers,

doesn't know about numbers. -- are you. It is about not having control.

It is about not having a say on how much money needs to go to education,

local authorities, in order to plan. I think it is perfectly reasonable

for voters... This is a high issue on the agenda, to be concerned about

having no control over immigration whatsoever from the European Union.

I think that is... It is not to do with education. Our crumbling

infrastructure is not the fault of the EU. You are assuming that if we

take control back of our borders we will be able to control them. When

actually we are rubbish at that. Where we can control them we have

been rubbish and it is exactly the same on... Everybody complains about

the roles of the EU and the regulations, but we are dreadful

with rules and regulations in this country. -- rules of the EU. In my

industry we have ridiculous rules and regulations which are

implemented in a ridiculous way, compared with other European

countries. You are assuming we have a government that can do the things

that you want. When actually they have not proven they have been able

to. It has a mandate to redo a health and safety policy, they

cannot do that... But that is OK then!

CHUCKLES It is about accountability and

sovereignty, what does that mean? I think it is jargon. Voters are able

to vote for the people... We do! Politicians talking about

sovereignty, the statistic for how much of the EU legislation directly

impacts the UK is so variable. The argument is between 9% and 70%. It

is, located. Around about 15% of regulations, so those are laws, but,

apologies, 15% of directives, but there is a lot of regulation on top

of that. They are not necessarily yours but they impact on business.

Actual laws, probably 15%. But the amount of red tape, an awful lot. It

is running at something like 32 billion as a direct result of EU

legislation. Look at what Cameron has initiated. He has negotiated a

deal in which he is going on oh, how exciting to be part of the EU coming

is actually -- has actually done a deal where he says we want to keep

it at arm 's length, we want to control certain things. He isn't

saying I want embraced the EU, in fact, he is trying to offer a deal

by saying we won't join the euro, we will not do this... You say you are

excited to leave. Is anybody excited to stay?

CHUCKLES I like everything about the EU. The

bureaucracy isn't the price of living in society. Sorry, when you

have human beings working together and communicating there is never

going to be perfect indication and and communicating there is never

efficiency. We are not perfect. Millions of pounds, from Brussels to

Parliament, why we're doing it? To keep the French happy? -- why are we

doing it? There isn't a single figure which vouchers for us leaving

the EU. Not the School of economics... We would be able to

make trade deals with South Korea... -- vouches for us. This is a deluded

idea. David Cameron argued about not having any future bailouts. That is

a great faith in the European Union! CHUCKLES

We already bail them out, because that is what our contribution is for

a negative trade deal. We must be crazy to carry on with this

contribution when we have people in this country who are surviving on

food banks. That is a Victorian era, as far as I'm concerned. You think

it is a good idea to leave? I cannot wait. Bring it on. Let's talk about

the personalities involved. Boris Johnson, does that change things? I

think you resonate with young people well. He will get them excited about

the prospect of leaving. I think he will do wonders for our side. I am a

young side and the activity doesn't resonate with me. Who does? One of

many. Jeremy Corbyn. CHUCKLES

You are undecided before the date was announced, what made up your

mind? Before the debate started. I don't think... I don't think people

know that much about the EU, but once you read into it I just think

for me, the humanitarian aspect of it, and preserving human rights is

so much more... You make it sound like there has never been a human

rights policy. The Human Rights Act exists. Absolutely did not! 1951. We

have human rights in this country. We don't need Brussels to tell us

how to treat people. I used to work... The whole point of the idea,

they just tell us what to do, and we have to sit... OK. The whole point

is that we can actually put our point across. And when you ever want

to change something. Changes are required in the EU, I agree, the

administration and the delivery and return it gives isn't the best. When

you want to change something you do not change it by leaving, you have

to change by being within. You cannot change, because we are one of

28. We can! Going in their direction. It is a we don't want to

go in. We will say that we don't want to go in that direction. We are

at the start of what will be a rather long campaign. Four months,

23rd of June, everybody will have their say. You can watch David

Cameron making his case to end these live on the BBC News Channel at

three 30p this afternoon. Later on in the programme, reaction from

Europeans living in this country, and we will also speak to Liam Fox.

-- at 3:30pm this afternoon. Stay with us for that. And keep getting

in touch with us. Coming up: The daughter of a 92 year-old woman

who faces being deported to South Africa tells us

she fears her mother could die We'll be talking

to both of them live. I am cornered. I should never have

come here alone. You are never alone, bruv.

And - ahead of the release of Sacha Baron Cohen's new film

Grimsby, the town has gone on a PR offensive to promote its image!

Boris Johnson, the top Tory who yesterday defied David Cameron

to back Britain leaving the EU, dodged questions this morning

Later the Prime Minister will explain to his own MPs why

they should support him and not Mr Johnson,

in his bid to keep the UK in what he calls a reformed EU.

After the abuse at the Winterborne View care home,

the government's now being urged to appoint a learning disabilities

boss to champion the rights of vulnerable people.

The author of the report, Sir Stephen Bubb says

that the challenges facing the care system are far greater

Police in Scotland say they have found a body while searching for the

missing teenager. A taxi driver has been arrested over

a shooting rampage in Michigan There are reports that he may have

picked up passengers French authorities try to persuade

the 4,000 people who live in the Calais migrant camp

to pack up and leave. They say they'll evict them

and bulldoze the camp if they don't. And Benedict Cumberbatch has won

the coveted Best Actor prize at the WhatsOnStage award

ceremony for his portrayal of Hamlet It was decided by public vote

and his production also picked up Let's catch up with all

the sport now and join Jess. A busy weekend. We start with

snooker. Ronnie O'Sullivan has been doing it again. He came from behind

last night to beat Robertson to claim his fourth Welsh open title.

And in doing so winning seven frames in a row. He in great form at the

moment ahead of the World Championships a couple of months.

One man who knows all about winning, Gus Hiddink, he has never lost an FA

Cup match. He is the Chelsea boss. Chelsea thrashed Manchester City 5-1

at Stamford Bridge to set up their next match at Everton. England's

women's cricket is tied up the T20 series against South Africa 2-1

yesterday. More impressive batting from Sarah Taylor who got a third

straight half-century. They are in great form ahead of the world T20

tournament which kicks off in three weeks. The men didn't do as well,

they lost the series against South Africa. More on all of those stories

just after 10am. See you later, thanks very much.

The daughter of a 92 year-old woman who faces being deported back

to South Africa tells this programme she fears her mother could die

Myrtle Cothill who is cared for by her daughter Mary Wills

was due to fly back to Johannesburg tomorrow but the Home Office has

temporarily halted proceedings pending a medical report.

We can talk to Myrtle and Mary Cothill now.

We can also speak to their barrister. I know your mum cannot

hear our questions, but she is going to be able to talk to us. Tell us

first of all how you feeling. Your mum was due to be heading back

tomorrow, of course. I know. It was awful. I just didn't want to face

tomorrow. I was so pleased when... When the lawyer phoned me and told

me it had been suspended. But we are still on tenterhooks. Because we

don't know whether the medical report is going to satisfy the Home

Office. Can you ask your mum how she's feeling, as well. Money, they

want to know how you feeling. -- how you are feeling. I feel so

downhearted. I am very downhearted. I just want to start crying all the

time. My nerves are in such a state. I am just praying and hoping that

something good will be done for me. I cannot face living without my

daughter at this age. If I have got to go back to South Africa I have

got no one that can care for me. I will be put into places where there

is no compassion, no care. I cannot read, and I cannot hear. My senses

are impaired. What will I do? Just sit with my thoughts and wait for my

end to come. I just cannot face this. I feel it is killing me. I

feel so down. I just don't know what to think, or what to do. I am just

in such a state of nerves. I just hope that something good will

happen. And the law will come down and give us peace.

happen. And the law will come down hearing your mum talking like that,

and knowing that she may well end up having to go back? Yes. It is very

hard. What was the intention having to go back? Yes. It is very

she came? The decision to deport her has been upheld by two tribunals.

And the reason was that they cited a as they key factor, because the

intention was always for her to remain here. -- cited as the key

factor. There was no deception whatsoever. Basically I was getting

telephone calls and e-mails from friends who lived in the retirement

village where my mum lived. Saying that my mum's health was going down.

I know my mum was battling. Every night me and my husband would send

some money over. But her health was really going down. They were asking

me to bring her back, you know, bring her over and come and live

with me. Which I did. Me and my husband checked on the Internet, and

we didn't know that we had to apply in South Africa for my mum over.

Because the things we were reading were all sort of clear, we could

apply from this country. And that is why I said mum must come over. Which

she did do. We applied and, of course, well, we have been through

it for two years now. So it was your intention when she

came, you wanted her to stay here? I want to look after my mother. She

has no family in South Africa. My mum brought me into this world

alone, because my own father got killed before I was born. So, my mum

and I have been very close, as you could understand. My mum remarried

again when I was nine. And then my stepdad died of meningitis. So my

mum has lost two husbands. It is my duty, as a daughter to look after my

mother. Let's talk to your lawyer because he is listening to this

discussion. The legal process, what would have to be satisfied for her

to stay, because she doesn't qualify under the immigration guidelines,

does she? The situation was just to give a quick overview the Home

Office refused her initially on the basis that she didn't meet the

immigration rules, but she could reintegrate into South African

society and also that her condition wasn't life-threatening. Whilst she

was here, during the currency of her visitor's Visa and before expects by

Ray she applied on the basis of her family life, with her daughter,

Mary. This came before the first immigration judge who felt she

couldn't meet the immigration rules but not only that, but that he

considered her right to family life should also be seen in the light of

the 2012 changes to the immigration rules, which basically made it

impossible for British nationals and people settled in Britain to have

their elderly relatives joined them. Try to 2012, if someone was over 65,

was already financially dependent on the relative here and the relative

here could maintain and accommodate them, they could apply for entry

clearance. After 2012, the situation was changed apparently without much

consultation and we're not quite clear of the reasons for that change

apart from numbers. To allow people in who had long-term, day-to-day

care needs, who could not receive medical treatment in their country

of origin. Meaning, because it isn't available at all, or because it

wasn't affordable. At the same time the family he would have to show

they could pay for private medical treatment here for the next five

years. This means that effectively there is no treatment at all or a

country where medical treatment is more expensive than the UK on a

privately paying basis, would qualify for these rules. You have

outlined the background and legalities around it. Myrtle was

booked on a flight to go back tomorrow, she is now able to stay

well further consideration is given. The medical report will be looked at

later. Does it come down to a case of clemency if she is allowed to

stay, what does it hinge on now? I don't believe so. This is not

just... I don't believe this is an issue of clemency or compassion at

all. We are going to put legal submissions in later today to show

that hair removal would be in breach of her human rights. Especially a

breach of her right to private and family light with Mary. We have now

got a medical report, which we will have to submit to the Home Office,

showing that Mary's mental state, sorry Myrtle's mental state makes

her particularly vulnerable to removal. So in that sense, her

removal would interfere with the private life she has established

with her daughter. In fact, the medical report also shows some of

the findings of the immigration judges, and I wish to stress there

was only one who could make such findings, the second hearing was

only about whether there was an error of law. It wasn't a rehearing

of the first hearing. He made certain findings. Mainly, he

considered Mary Ann Myrtle had established family life in the UK

but said it would be proportional to remove Myrtle because he assumed

Mary could go and visit Myrtle on a temporary basis. OK, thank you very

much. Lots of people getting in touch.

Margaret says it is a disgrace to deport and 92-year-old woman and we

can accept unlimited European people, where is the compassion?

Someone has said, is this country for year.

And another lady says she is 92, lives with her daughter and is not

taking up space. Thank you all for joining us.

The Home Office told us all applications are considered

on their individual merits and in line with the Immigration Rule.

It added "The removal of Mrs Cothill has been postponed

to allow the family to provide further evidence."

Should the Government appoint a senior person to champion

the rights of people with learning disabilities?

That's one of the recommendations in a new report, written

following the Winterbourne view scandal.

following the Winterbourne View scandal.

We've been talking this morning about whether Britain should remain

David Cameron will present his argument to stay in the EU

in Parliament later, where he'll face a formidable

coalition of senior cabinet ministers and Conservative

backbenchers who will be campaigning against him before we all have our

say in the referendum vote on June the 23rd.

He's is a former Conservative Minister, who has previously stood

to be leader of the Conservative Party.

Is this going to be in issue that will tear your party apart? It is

not a normal issue in that it affects only one party or another,

it will cross the whole political divide and you will have David

Cameron, who will be on the same side as Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola

Sturgeon. On the other side you will have Nigel Farage alongside

Conservatives. We have Cabinet ministers openly disagreeing with

each other. 150 Tory MPs openly backing to go out. It is a democracy

and we get a say. Every citizen is equally weighed when it comes to a

referendum, so the votes are counted as the whole population, not in

constituencies. So every vote counts, every cabinet minister will

have the same boat as their constituents. It is risky for the

Tory party? We gave a manifesto pledge. Nobody under the age of 58

has ever been given a chance to vote on the European Union. It was a big

gap in our democratic accountability. And because the

Conservatives won the general election, we are able to give the

people of this country are saying and what is a very constitutional

issue for them. So, Boris Johnson, does that say things? It is hard to

say but the British public are savvy on these issues. They will make

their minds up on the substance of the arguments put forward. Is he a

politician that cuts through to some voters that others don't? They will

hear his voice more than they hear about politicians, so that will be

useful in getting their arguments across and I'm glad he is coming to

join our side of the campaign. Why do you think years, people are

questioning his motivation? It is unfair that they do so. They say he

has been swerving like a shopping trolley. The issue that has swung

him, and you need to ask him about this, but it is the issue of

sovereignty, who has the authority to govern us, who has the authority

to make our laws. He was waiting to see whether there was anything on

Britain any greater authority to make our own laws. A

can not make its own laws and control its own border is not a

proper independent and free country. That is why I want

proper independent and free country. European Union. Many people looked

proper independent and free country. at the deal and said, there is

nothing new in at the deal and said, there is

the position where the European Court can overrule the elected House

of Commons. David Cameron said yesterday before Boris Johnson made

his announcement, speaking to Boris Johnson and others within the party

who would support leaving, he said the prospect of linking arms with

Nigel Farage and George Galloway and taking a leap into the dark is a

wrong step. Him linking Andy Moss with Jeremy Corbyn and Nicola

Sturgeon won't win him any friends in the Tory party. We should be

sticking to the issues. As for a leap in the dock, the day after we

would vote to leave the European Union, he would still be a permanent

member of the Security Council, still be at the heart of Nato and

have a special relationship with the US. We would still be in the G20, at

the heart of the Commonwealth. One of the most important trading

countries and one of the world's top ten economies. How is that a leap in

the dark. It is almost to suggest Great Britain cannot maintain its

position in the world unless it is a member of the European Union. It

could League 2 Scotland leaving the UK? Scotland decided to remain part

of the United Kingdom, which is what I welcome. If Britain decided to

remain in European Union, there is no guarantee Scotland, at some

point, wouldn't have another referendum. It shouldn't be a

consideration that forces us to abandon the demerits of European

Union membership. What to think about the argument Iain Duncan Smith

has made about staying leaves this country more vulnerable to terror

attacks we saw in Paris, is it scaremongering? If you look at the

reality on the consonants, Europe poll says 5000 EU citizens have been

trained in terror camps and come back to Europe. A lot of people have

been coming into the European Union from places like Afghanistan and

Iran. It is impossible to know if they are genuine refugees, economic

migrants, if they are sympathetic to these extremist movements of whether

groups like Isis have been able to in -- infiltrate them. If we cannot

control our borders, we cannot know who they are. Does controlling our

borders and getting out make it easier? Yes it does. One of the

things people like me have been suggesting is we have a proper point

system for people coming to live and work in the UK. The system Australia

has. We cannot apply that well we are members of the European Union

because it is illegal under European law. If you cannot make your own law

and you cannot control your own borders, you are not an independent,

free, sovereign nation. If David Cameron loses and we do vote to go

out, can he survive? Constitutionally, he can remain as

Prime Minister to negotiate that. Would he survive? It is difficult to

determine the political dynamics after the rough and tumble of a

political referendum. There is no reason why he couldn't stay on and a

lot of my colleagues think he should. Once we have been through

the whole process of the referendum, as your audience earlier showed, you

can develop some passionate views quickly. We will have to wait and

see. I hope we stick to the arguments, we don't make it a

personality -based and we behave in a way that will make it easier for

us to come together again to govern the country after the 23rd of June.

Will there be people in the Tory party thinking, if he doesn't

survive, this will be my opportunity to be in the frame?

Anybody thinks politicians do not think that way all the time isn't

part of the political process. There is a clear decision to make. We must

get sidetracked with issues over leadership of the party. Whether

Britain takes a course that will have us tied into a European model

which is failing, and that will require us to move towards ever

closer union, or Britain takes a different course to make our own

laws and control our own destiny is a huge choice for the British

people. And all I say is I hope politicians stick to the big

arguments and stick to the facts so that the public can make an informed

choice about their own future. You have stood for the leadership

before, Conservative Home website has you top of a poll saying that

you could be the next leader if David Cameron were to go. Would you

stand again? Wait and see. At my age, 54, in British politics that is

almost geriatric according to the media. He have to be in your 30s and

40s, apparently. There is a big debate to be had in this country

about age, but this is not the point to have it. Is that a no customer

because of your age? Never say never again. -- is that they know? -- is

that a no. You will need your woolly jumper this week. It has been a cold

start of the day across many parts. Not everywhere, mind you. In the

south it is that -- little bit milder. Beautiful start of the day

in the Shetland Isles. Look at the Sunrise. In Wakefield it was very

frosty, as indeed it has been across many parts. Further south we have a

weather front which is straddled across southern areas, introducing

all of this cloud and some rain and some drizzle. In the north, brighter

skies, and some sunshine. Wintry showers, quite a plethora of that

across the North of Scotland, but by no means will we all see them.

Increasing over the course of the day. They will fall at lower levels.

It will brighten up across the Midlands. This cloud is right across

the southern counties, right behind a band of rain, which is slowly

moving into the English channel. Temperatures peaked at around 11

Celsius in the south. They will go down as we go through the day. The

cooler and brighter conditions will push south. Some travel in northern

England and sunshine across Scotland. Wintry showers, still,

again at lower levels. The Northern Ireland it is a mix of bright

weather, and some showers. Feeling maybe, but beautiful in the

sunshine. For Wales, lots of and showers, and in the lower levels

there will be a lot of rain. The rain will have moved south, but it

will come back in and touch Cornwall, Devon, Somerset as we go

through this evening and overnight. There is a risk of some snow in

Dartmoor, but it is just a risk at this stage. Tonight, for the rest of

us, it will be cold, particularly from Northern Ireland, Northern

Ireland, northwards through Scotland. Widespread frost. Also

some patchy, freezing fog over northern England and Northern

Ireland. Still this array of showers over the north-west of Scotland, and

the North West of England. That is how we start tomorrow. Similar note.

What out for ice on untreated surfaces where it has been done.

Still some showers, some of them over north-western Scotland,

Northern Ireland, western Scotland, and down the west coast of England

as far as Norfolk. Away from the showers it will be a gorgeous day. A

cold, crisp, winter 's day with lots of sunshine. No heatwave, we are

looking at about two in Shetland, and about seven as we push towards

the channel islands. Maybe a nine in London and Plymouth. On Wednesday,

more of the same. A cold start, a frosty one. Some ice on untreated

surfaces. There will be some sunshine and some showers. To riches

between two and eight Celsius. Through the course of Wednesday,

into Thursday morning, looking at a plume of blues which sweeps to the

south. -- temperatures between two and eight Celsius. A frosty night,

but it will be a lot more widespread than the earlier part of the week.

-- frosty midweek. Hello, I'm Joanna Gosling,

in for Victoria this morning. Welcome to the programme

if you've just joined us, It's one of the most important

issues facing the UK - would Britain be better off

in or out of the European Union? It is the principle of not having

control. Not having a say on how much money needs to go to education,

how much needs to go to elude authorities to plan -- how much

needs to go to local authorities to plan. This is a high issue on the

agenda. We need to be concerned about having no control over

immigration and... When you ever want to change something, and

changes are required in the EU, I agree, the administration, the

delivery, and the return it gives is not the best. But when you want to

change something you do not change it by leaving, you have to change by

being within. In the next two moments, we will get the view from

the UK. -- in the next few moments, we will get the view from Europeans

living in the UK. After the abuse at the Winterborne

View care home, a learning disabilities commissioner should be

appointed to protect the rights I am cold. I should have never come

alone. You are never alone in Grimsby, bruv.

And, Grimsby is fighting back - it's launched a campaign saying it's

nothing like the town portrayed in a new film by the creator

We will speak to people who live there.

London Mayor Boris Johnson remained the centre of attention this morning

after his decision yesterday to oppose David Cameron and back

Later the Prime Minister will explain to his own MPs why

they should support him and not Mr Johnson in his bid to keep the UK

After the abuse at the Winterborne View care home -

the Government's now being urged to appoint a learning disabilities

commissioner to champion the rights of vulnerable people.

The author of a care review, Sir Stephen Bubb, says

that the challenges facing the care system are far greater

A taxi driver has been arrested over a shooting rampage in Michigan

There are reports that he may have picked up passengers

And Benedict Cumberbatch has won the coveted Best Actor prize

at the Whats-On-Stage award ceremony - for his portrayal of Hamlet

It was decided by public vote - and his production also picked up

Let's catch up with all the sport now.

How did Ronnie O'Sullivan get all in the sneaker? He cannot stop winning.

Ronnie O'Sullivan has continued his winning form,

with a remarkable comeback to claim his fourth Welsh Open title.

He secured the win with an impressive break of 141

Earlier in the tournament, Rocket Ronnie complained

of being bored, but he seemed to be having the time of his life

as he won seven consecutive frames to beat Neil Robertson 9-5.

I thought, just a income stay patient, if you build momentum, you

know, just... You put each other under pressure so the opportunities

come easier. -- just stay patient. I struggled at the Masters. I played

but this week. I felt I found fluency this week. Even if I had

lost I think I still would have enjoyed this week.

Now, Chelsea's manager Gus Hiddink is used to winning too.

And lifted the trophy in 2009 during his first stint in charge.

He marched on to the quarter final stage this time round,

The papers this morning have made a lot of City bringing in a number

of youth team players - as the first team regulars play

in the Champions League in just two days' time in Ukraine.

But it's probably the veteran goalkeeper Willy Caballero who'll

and to a last 8 fixture against the side he beat

They made some changes. But making those changes were not mean it is

more easy. Because the youngsters who came in, especially the

strikers, they were dangerous in the first half. They made a good draw in

the first. We were sloppy in defence. But I think it was clear we

started well in the second half. So Chelsea's win was seen as men

versus boys over City - and that is exactly how

England's cricket head coach, This was the fifth loss

in a row for England. They were defeated in the one-day

series, and this T20 series ended Bayliss said his team had

played some good cricket. Our cricket analyst Simon Hughes

is focusing on the positives. As time went on, they looked weary.

South Africa came back strong. They opened a couple of areas of

inadequacy in England's cricket. Lower down the order they are not

good enough at getting big scores. Also, I think their bowling is

vulnerable in one-day cricket. But to finish a tour with a Test match

wind, and some close series in one-day cricket, is pretty good from

this young band of players. -- Test match win.

And we'll end on a high - as Sarah Taylor inspired England's

women to a 2-1 series win against South Africa.

She hit another half-century, her third in a row, as England

scored 133 for 6, to win by four wickets.

Not surprising then she was named player of the match and series.

They had already tied up the one-day international series 2-1,

so the side are in good form ahead of their opening World T20 match

Hello - thank you for joining us this morning.

Welcome to the programme if you've just joined us,

we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Channel until 11 this morning.

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

Wherever you are you can watch our programme online -

via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

Lots of you have been in touch about Myrtle, the 92-year-old woman who is

facing deportation. Marion says why is she being singled out at such a

vulnerable state at her life. Another e-mail says, I am ashamed to

be British, trying to deport a 92-year-old lady is horrendous. The

people looking at this case need to be reprimanded for wasting

taxpayers' money. This could have a traumatic effect on her. Another one

says, the lady should be able to stay on compassionate grounds. Shame

on the Home Office, they always get it wrong. How much is it costing the

taxpayer taking this through the courts? Keep your opinions coming

in. Wherever you are, you can watch our programme online on the BBC News

app, or on the website. This morning - you've been telling

us whether you think Britain is better off in or out

of the European Union. Lots of people getting in touch.

John says, I am not a big fan of the EU, but I would vote to stay in. If

we vote to leave the EU it would trigger a vote for independence in

Scotland. I think this time it would be a yes and it would lead to the

break-up of the UK. Roger e-mails, there was much scaremongering in the

argument put forward by both sides. Personally I believe if we get out

of the EU it would give the government the power and tools to

govern our country and secure our borders in a far better way for the

British people. I do not feel European, I am British and I want to

be controlled by UK laws, not by Brussels. Peter e-mails, I hope you

talk about the issues over in your out and don't mention a political

party. Do not mention any political party loyalty. None of that is

important. The Mediate session in insisting who is involved and why

take precedence over what they advocate. -- the media is accessed

with insisting. Keep your opinions coming...

But what do Europeans living in this country think?

We can talk now to Andrea Munoz, who's from Spain and has been living

here for two years, Mario Ovsenjak, who is Croatian and has been living

in the UK for 20 years and Aneta Buckert who is Polish

Thank you for joining us. Tell us how you would feel if Britain left

the EU? I would very much prefer for Great Britain to stay in the EU.

First, because I am Spanish, and I am living here. I have no intentions

to leave. I am working here. This is my country now. It would be such a

shame. What do you think about the issues around the referendum, things

like... Benefits paid to immigrants, the level of immigration, all of

those issues that have been debated for some time in Britain? At the end

of the day we don't have an agenda. We don't really have decisions made

clear on those fronts. The position we are in, now, is basically we

don't know what will happen if we were to leave the EU. What is

membership of the EU mean to you? -- what does. There are different

levels... Different levels of benefits of being in the EU. We know

there is a cultural benefit of sharing the British culture with

European cultures, and teaching our children and grandchildren about

European history. The biggest single peace time happened when we were all

part of Europe. Everyone can see the benefits of that. The problem is we

haven't been told in black and white, in numbers, what would it

mean to stay in or go out, and I would like to see that. Is that what

it would boil down to for you? A straightforward calculation... Not

just that. If you look at it from a geopolitical level, where would we

want our children to grow up, what kind of society? Who do we want

globally to be friends with? If you have a look at what is happening

saying in Russia, China, Donald Trump's US, who are the real allies,

who are we sharing the values with? I think we are sharing the values of

our everyday life with the EU. And that is very important. And, of

course, the numbers would come into that. The numbers given, say in

England, could be different to those given in Wales, or... Because of the

contributions that is going from the EU into Wales could be different to

the ones coming into the south-east of England. And so on. Also there is

a great debate about Scotland. Scotland has just made a major

decision based on its setup, do we want to change that? How do you see

it? It is a much get picture. Britain is

much stronger as part of the European Union so I would agree with

David Cameron. If the European is strong, Britain is much better at

being in it. It is a different position... Define that a bit more,

why do you say Britain is stronger in its because people who want to

get outside Britain could be just as strong out? If you look at the whole

political picture and if you think how is Britain positioned in

negotiation with other rising powers like China, India and other emerging

markets, it is always a stronger partner when you have a 500 million

community than a single country negotiating on its own. If you look

at the dangerous risks we see elliptically, it is better for

Britain to be part of the EU and Nato and represent its interests for

a large, cohesive and consistent group of countries, rather than on

its own. How would you feel if we were to leave? It would be a shame.

It would probably cause some, I wouldn't say turmoil, but an

unnecessary distraction for businesses and unnecessary

distractions for all of the European citizens living here. Businesses and

people would have do redefine how they are living in this country and

what it means for them. Rather than focusing on the day-to-day business,

you focus on the changes that may not bring anything good with it. Is

this something you and everyone around you is talking about at the

moment? Yes. Lots of Spanish people right now living in the UK, not only

in London but in the whole of the UK. But we don't only have to think

about EU citizens that are living in the UK, because there is lots of UK

citizens that are living abroad and they living in other countries of

the EU. So it is of concern whether what is going to happen to those

people, lots of British people living in Spain, what will happen to

them, will they had to start getting visas. Will we have to start needing

visas to be able to live here. Thank you all very much. One of the

arguments already dominating the EU referendum is the issue of security.

The defence secretary Michael Fallon said this morning that the UK

will be taking a big gamble with its security

It's after his cabinet colleague, the work and pensions secretary

Iain Duncan Smith, suggested that staying in the EU will leave Britain

with an 'open border', raising the risk of Paris-style

We already have control of our own borders. We have opted out of the

open border arrangements in Europe. That is the advantage of what David

Cameron has done. He has given Britain a special status in Europe,

Parliament and businesses are protect it and our borders are

protected. That is why the migrants are in the camp in Calais, they

cannot come into Britain. Over the next few years, people who have

taken people from various areas aren't going to give them leave to

remain on passports and they could turn up again in the UK. These are

big issues further down the road for us, because this open border does

not allow us to check and control people that may come and spend time

here. We saw in Paris they spent ages planning and plotting, so who

is to say they might not already be thinking about that.

Frank Gardner is here. It is dramatic when you have Cabinet

minister Saint two dramatically different things, depending on

whether we stay in or out? Security and counterterrorism should never be

politicised. You need to put it on one side, it shouldn't be involved

in party politics, mixed up in other issues like economy and migration.

It is something on its own. Britain's stronger security and

intelligence partnerships are not with Europe, they are with the

United States and what is called the five guys, Australia, New Zealand,

Canada and the US. They share intelligence on a massive basis. We

have an incredibly close relationship with Australia, closer

than they do with France. The question is, would we be safer or

not in or out in terms of a Paris style attack? What matters is the

strength of the borders. You have to separate people here from the tools

with which they might carry out an attack. The reason why Britain

hasn't suffered a Paris style attack so far is down to two things. Better

intelligence on the continent, they are not very good at sharing

intelligence between police and intelligence agencies from country

to country. And borders. It is harder to get hold of powerful,

automatic weapons like the Kalashnikov is used in both Paris a

tax last year, it is harder to get hold of those here in Britain than

it is in continental Europe. I spoke to the EU coordinator for

counterterrorism after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and he said we have

strengthened our borders with the Balkans, but once they have weapons

in continental Europe, it is harder to stop them. Would it is easier to

stop them at our borders because we are in a situation where it is

easier to stop them currently. Where does that leave Iain Duncan Smith's

claim we are at greater risk if we stay in? I am not going to steer

people either way, it would be wrong for me to do that. What I would say,

Britain's strongest intelligence and terrorism and counterterrorism

intelligence is bilateral. People don't share things with the EU, per

se, people start to get very possessive about what they are going

to share. The strong relationships, Britain to France, France to Spain,

Britain to Spain and primarily, Britain to the US. That will

continue either way. Some things will be lost, some things will be

gained. We have strong relationships with say Pakistan. I say we, Britain

has in terms of sharing information. They tell us things, we tell them

things. It has got nothing to do with a block in Europe. People just

need to know the facts about this. It is about borders, it is about

intelligence and it is about what is shared and what isn't. Thank you.

An elderly woman was so happy at going to the White House, she

couldn't stop and think. Let's have a watch. -- dancing.

There are calls for the government to do far more to protect adults

A new report says not enough has been done following the BBC Panorama

programme which uncovered serious patient abuse and neglect

at the Winterbourne View private hospital, near Bristol.

Winterbourne View closed shortly after that programme

Last year NHS England asked Sir Stephen Bubb to carry out

a review of care provisions for people with learning

disabilities in the wake of the the winterboure view scandal.

Sir Stephen Bubb made 10 recommendations, including closing

large "inappropriate in-patient facilities" in favour

of care services for people in their own community

and the introduction of a legal charter of rights for them

But he now says not enough is being done to bring

The government insists major changes are underway.

We can speak to Sir Stephen Bubb now, author of the report and head

of the Association of Chief Executives

his 15 year-old son Josh Wills has severe autism

He campaigned for three years to move his son from a hospital

in Birmingham nearer to his family in Cornwall.

Josh was actually moved last November.

And Dan Scorer is Head of Policy at Mencap.

Sir Stephen Bubb, you have gone a step further than you were before,

why is that? I think the scale of the challenge is so big and the

demand for change is so strong, I think we need a commissioner for

learning disabilities who will act as a real advocate for change and to

keep people on track. Why is that? Who is responsible for the fact it

hasn't been moving as quickly as you would like, who would need the kick,

if you like? There are issues on how society treats people with learning

disabilities. Since my last report, we have the scandal in Southern

health where you had unexplained deaths that went unreviewed. It was

a shocking example of the way we as a society treats people with

learning disabilities and their families. There are up to 1 million

people with some form of learning disability. 300,000 children. It is

the education services, how we as a society treats people with learning

disabilities. We need someone who will act as a champion. There is a

commission for children, for example. Something like that post to

act as the advocate and keep people up to the mark. Who, central

government? Central government, NHS England, the care services, the

education services. A real... No one is taking it seriously enough?

People take it seriously, but the fact that abuse has been happening,

the fact you still have 3000 people in institutions, who are subject to

physical restraint over medication and seclusion. We still haven't got

them into the community. Even though we know and have known for decades,

care and support in the community is better and it is more

cost-effective. It is extraordinary we have tolerated a system I believe

is institutionally abusive to people with learning disabilities. Your son

Josh was in a home far away from the family, you are in Cornwall, he was

in Birmingham. You are happy with the way he was treated, but upset it

was so far away. Do you feel your family has been let down by the

system? Josh was 12 when he was sent away. It was a case of we didn't

feel listened to as a family. Josh was let down. We admitted we

couldn't look after him at home. His self injury behaviour. We are seeing

a picture of him there with a helmet on for protection? The helmet he

wears for self restraint, because he still now tries to hurt himself. But

he has a wonderful care package now. Cornwall Council, local authorities

and the commissioners have worked with us now to get the package in

place that Josh now has in Cornwall. What were the issues before, why

couldn't the package be delivered in Cornwall before? Josh is unique in

the way he hurt himself. He hurt himself to the extent that his

injuries were life-threatening. His mum Sarah and I, step dad and step

mum had to accept that Josh couldn't live with us in our houses because

we really couldn't look after him. So he was hospitalised. The care

wasn't available in Cornwall for his age and needs at the time, he was

12. Birmingham came up. He went there

just after his 12th birthday. I went with him in the ambulance. They did

everything they could to keep him safe. But in the end it was a unit.

The campaign we launched to bring Josh home garnered a lot of

attention. Once he came home, last November, I have now changed tack.

I'm saying, look at what can be done. So many options. There are so

many families outburst rattling worse than we did. The care their

children are receiving is not as good as the care Josh received. --

out there struggling worse than we did. Did you feel like you were

fighting a lone battle? Did you need somebody championing new issue? We

had a lot of people fighting our case. Somebody stepped in. He got

somebody to sort it out and ultimately it was sorted out. Even

Norman would say that he felt a little frustrated, well, a lot

frustrated, at the way things were so slowly moving. The first deadline

that was set after Winterbourne came and went. We were in the middle of

our campaign. We had 241,000 signatures. It is slow-moving. Dan,

do you think a commissioner speaking on behalf families like this would

make a difference? I think it could be important. But in relation to the

programme Sir Stephen is talking about, which is moving as many as

possible, 3500 of these people out of these institutions and back into

the community, there is a plan that the NHS and local councils have

agreed to. It would mean bringing 50% of those back. They need to hold

account. One of the other recommendations around having an

independent evaluation, an independent oversight, that this

change is happening is so important. There are 50 new partnerships now

working across the country to develop the right kind of services

so children like Josh would not be sent out of their area. They would

have the right support near their home. They would be sent hundreds of

miles away with pressure and anxiety which is placed upon the family. We

have a plan in place. There is a poor track record. These programmes

have come and gone before and failed. The key thing is that the

government, the NHS, and the local councils are held to account for the

commitments which have actually been given. Thanks to all of you. The

health minister told us that NHS thing that has launched a major

initiative to move people out of institutions and back to their

homes. This would include nurses giving care...

Grimsby is fighting back - saying it's nothing like the image

presented in Sacha Baron Cohen's new film of the same name.

We'll be speaking to people who live there.

London mayor, Boris Johnson, remained the centre of attention

this morning after his decision yesterday to oppose David Cameron

Later the Prime Minister will explain to his own MPs why

they should support him and not Mr Johnson,

in his bid to keep the UK in what he calls a reformed EU.

A taxi driver has been arrested over an apparently random shooting spree

There are reports that he may have allegedly picked up passengers

At least 21 people have died in the Pacific islands of Fiji

after a powerful cyclone flattened entire villages.

Some of the outlying islands are still waiting for help -

the government's asked for help with transport and supplies.

And Benedict Cumberbatch has won the coveted Best Actor prize

at the Whats-On-Stage award ceremony for his portrayal of Hamlet

It was decided by public vote and his production also picked up

After a week in which snooker's Welsh Open has frequently made the

news because of Ronnie O'Sullivan's comments he went on to win the

tournament, beating Robertson in the final. No signs of boredom, or a

maximum break. Chelsea will travel to Everton after they thrashed the

young Manchester City side 5-1 at Stamford Bridge. The other last

eight fixtures are on the BBC sport website. Trevor Bayliss described

the T20 loss to South Africa as men against boys as they were thrashed

by nine wickets. It is their fifth straight loss, meaning they lose the

series 2-1. Success for the women's team. Taylor inspired England to a

win against South Africa, claiming the series 2-1. Taylor hit her third

half-century in a row as England scored 133-6 to win by four wickets.

Thanks very much. How much do you need to earn before

you're allowed to live It might sound like an irrelevant

question but it's not for any UK citizen who wants

to bring their foreign In 2012, new immigration rules

were introduced which means people who are entitled to live here,

have to be earning at least ?18,500 a year before

they qualify to bring The change in the law has meant

thousands of families have been separated

because of the income requirement. Today it's being challenged

in the Supreme Court. Divya Talwar has been speaking

to some of these so-called "Skype families" who've been created

since the rule changes. My son has been damaged

because of this. You know, he thinks

a phone is his father. Essentially, the Conservative

government are putting a price It is about fairness,

it is about making sure Can only call upon spouses

when they have got Some people will say that

you have essentially I will do whatever it takes to keep

my family together. The seaside town of Barry

Island in south Wales. This is now home for Amira and her

son Jude since she fled from Syria. Two years ago, the daily sounds

of gunfire and barrel bombs were normal life in Damascus

with her Syrian husband Ahmed. She met Ahmed through her

relatives living there. When Amira fell pregnant

with Jude, the couple decided that they had

to leave the country. Amira came back to the UK just

before giving birth, He could not get a visa -

and still can't. I don't meet the means

or the requirements to bring my husband here on a spouse

visa, or likewise a family visa. I will never earn ?18,600

being a single mother. I wish he could have

come with me, I wish he could have been there

to support me in getting But he could not come

here because we do Amira gave birth to Jude a week

after coming back to the UK. You know, he has missed

the first birthday, he has missed him walking, he has

missed him crawling. My son has been damaged

because of this. I have been trying

for a very long time. Obviously, Syria is not

an option at all. We cannot return, for numerous

reasons, and obviously one of them is, we don't fancy being

killed any time soon. No ifs, no buts, this is a promise

we made to the British people, We need to address people's

concerns about immigration. I am very clear about who the boss

is, about who I answer to - They are not being

unreasonable about it. Part of David Cameron's

master plan to control immigration from outside

Europe was the introduction of the minimum income threshold

for Britons bringing He also hoped it would

cut the benefit bill. In terms of family reunion,

because we have said the families you come to have to have a certain

income, that has cut visas The rule change does

seem to have worked. Spouse visas have been

coming down since 2012. This is Precious Depasse and her son

Marley, who is 18 months. She is in her final year

at university and has a job lined up as a trainee teacher

when she graduates this September. The problem is, though,

she will not be earning enough to sponsor

Marley's dad into the UK. Precious met Max when she was

studying abroad in Tanzania. She fell pregnant,

and that is when she found out She came back to the UK

alone two years And the family have

been apart since. I do feel like we are in limbo

because we do not know what the next year will bring, if we will still be

in the same situation. Do you think your

relationship can survive? It does put a big strain

on the relationship. So hopefully, we will last

the two years, or whatever What is your biggest

concern about the situation My biggest fear is that we would

have to go our separate ways, really, and just continue

as a single parent. Does that scare you,

that that might actually happen? It does because I never thought

in a million years that this Recent research by Oxford

University's migration observatory found that close to 40%

of the working British population do not earn enough

to meet the minimum For a young woman like Precious

living outside of London, here in Birmingham, she is even

less likely to meet it. And essentially, the Conservative

government are putting a price Can you understand why

these rules are in place? The government does

not want taxpayers essentially to have

to support families? Well, non-EU citizens

cannot claim any benefits. And secondly, if he

was here, our family would be earning twice

as much as we are now. So it would not be a burden

on the state whatsoever. Since leaving Syria,

Amira's home in Damascus Family members have

lost their lives. Her husband Ahmed has

now fled to Turkey. Jude is one of at least 15,000

British children growing up in Skype families since

the new rules came in, according to a report

by the Children's Commissioner. He is trying to get to him,

to give him cuddles. This is not him just trying

to press the buttons, You see, he just wants

to try and get to his dad, How can you carry on like this,

how can we continue to live You know, we want to be

able to be together, The Government has been locked

in a legal tussle ever First, the income threshold

was challenged in the High Court. So the government went

to the Court of Appeal. But now it all comes down

to who wins in there, when four British families

bring their fight Their lawyers will argue

in the Supreme Court that the income threshold interferes

with their right to a family life. I think the Government

has got a very good chance of winning this

last and final case. I think they have a good chance

because it is about fairness. when they have got

enough funds to do so. And that protects them,

it protects their spouses, to give them that better

chance of prospering here. And preventing them being a burden

on the British taxpayer. There is a big online network

of so-called Skype families waiting for the outcome of

this court challenge. Some couples, though,

have advice on how they have managed to get around the income

threshold by using a It is called the Surinder

Singh route, after a landmark case establishing it,

and here is how it works. The income threshold does

not apply to citizens So let's say Anita,

who is a British citizen, is married to Raj,

who lives in India. Anita does not earn enough

to bring Raj into the UK, but if she moves to a country

in the economic European Union, let's say France, and

if Anita lives there with Raj and she works

there for a minimum of three months, she can return to

Britain under the EU's free movement laws,

and she will effectively be treated So she no longer needs to meet

the income requirement. I have spoken to three

couples who have recently moved to Ireland

and are using the Surinder Singh route eventually to

come back to the UK. None of them would

speak to me on camera. They are worried if the government

finds out, it might try So I have come to meet a family

who has already used the route and is now back

from their temporary move to Ireland and able to live together

legally in their This is Wayne Pearsall,

his wife Anna and their two children, Charlie,

three, and Chloe, six. She met Wayne when she was visiting

the UK for six months. They fell in love

and they had Chloe. But Wayne was earning 3,000 short

of the income requirement, Because these people,

this country, does not They just want Mummy

to live back in Indonesia. Some people will say that you have

essentially cheated the system. I will do whatever it takes

to keep my family together. But it is not cheating

the system, it is a The Government should not force

us to have to use free movement, they should not force

British citizens out of Britain We asked the Immigration Minister,

James Brokenshire, for an interview. Instead, a Home Office

spokesperson told us in a

statement... Amira is now considering

the Surinder Singh route, but first she is

waiting on the outcome I just wish my husband and Jude

could muck about in the sand and go and paddle and build sand castles -

just mundane, everyday things that that you would do at the beach,

but with your dad. I just wish that that

could happen at some point soon. You can find out more on that story

on the Asian network today. Pressure continues to building

on the Government to give the meningitis B vaccine

to all children aged under 11. The number of signatories

to a petition has now That was a photograph of Mason

Timmins. Mason won seven and he died in 2013. Putting out that photo must

bring it all back to? It was hard, but it was a decision we made to

raise awareness and keep his memory alive. Tell us about Mason? He was

fun loving, very mysterious, into everything. Loved his motorbikes,

loved his motocross bike. Always got something to say. He was just a

special little boy. One morning he told you he wasn't feeling well? He

woke up around 6:30am and was just sick. He spent the day on the sofa,

as most children do with what we thought at the time, was a sickness

bug. By 3:30 p.m., he had a temperature. I gave him some cal

poll. The temperature didn't come down and I took him to the doctors.

He became very sleepy and then lost consciousness in the Doctor. An

ambulance came and took him to hospital, where they had to put him

on to live support. We then got transferred to Stoke, because they

have a specialist care team. By the time we arrived at Stoke a set the

meningitis had already attacked his brain and he was clinically

brain-dead. This was all from six o'clock in the morning to midnight

on the same day. It is terrifying how quickly everything can change.

It was just so quick. You have put out the photograph because you want

to raise awareness for other parents, what is the best message

you can give? Any doubt, dial 999 or A Forget the rush, Mason didn't

have the rush. Although it is important. Mason never had the rush,

even when he died. Any doubt whatsoever, get them medically

checked. When he woke up and he was sick, was there any indication it

was anything more serious than a normal sickness bug? None

whatsoever, he woke up and he was sick and throughout the day he was

wanting to watch the TV and he wanted to watch Casper The Friendly

Ghost. Nothing more than I had ever seen with a normal sick this book.

What did doctors you about how he would have got it and how long would

it be in his system, do you know anything before? Obviously he had

been fined a day before and then woke up and he was sick? They did

say they don't really understand how it can be caught, but it could have

been in his system for some time before, but how quick it attacked

the brain. But there were now other outward signs. He had actually been

vaccinated for viral meningitis, but not the bacterial? He had the

meningitis C vaccination is, but not the Men B, which is what we are

campaigning for. There is a lack of understanding and awareness when

children have had their meningitis vaccine, but they are not aware of

the different types. You are part of this campaign which is attracting

huge number of signatures. 700,000 people signing a petition to get the

meningitis B vaccine rolled out to all children? It should be

available, I have paid privately for my daughter. I recommend any

parents, it should be available for all children anyway. Thank you very

much for joining us, thank you. Thank you.

Sacha Baron Cohen's the comedy genius behind Ali G,

His latest film is opening in London tonight.

It's called "Grimsby" and it tells the story of reformed football

hooligan who is forced to go on the run with his brother -

I should never have come here alone. You're alone in Grimsby. Lads? See

those blokes out there, they can Manchester United supporters. You

delay them, I promise I will burn your school down for you.

But his latest comic creation is causing outrage

Grimsby's local council has launched a "Love Grimsby" campaign to counter

want to thank both my guess for joining us. People seeing the funny

side of this? We will wait until we see the film, but I think so. We

have a great sense of humour in Grimsby and Cleethorpes. We have got

to be able to laugh at ourselves, but the towns have a huge amount to

offer. You say people wait wait and see, but Ricky Tomlinson gave an

interview and he said people will either love it or hate it. But

people in Grimsby will hate it, he says? The fact it was filmed in

Tilbury cannot reflect on the town of Grimsby, can it? We can all pick

a poor attitude in every town and city in the land. I think Grimsby

suffers because of its name. Is it the name? It is like to go to place

if you need a town to take the Mickey out of because it is easy to

make the joke. It has been the butt of jokes for years on end. It is

another thing that people will just go, let's get over it and build up

again. Do you love Grimsby? Like you wouldn't believe it. I was asked to

addition the film, they said they were looking for an overweight

Grimsby Town fan in his early 30s. I said I have been training for that

the 20 years! I didn't get it, it was an awful day. The film could

have picked anywhere, but they went the Grimsby because of the name.

They needed a working-class town that has a big football heritage.

What is so great about Grimsby? We haven't got time to cover

everything, but the fishing heritage, the National Museum. Nigel

is sat in a famous fish and chip shop. If you haven't been in there,

something is wrong. There is a whole host of things. The thing is,

Kazakhstan and Stains, host of things. The thing is,

and Borat had filmed there host of things. The thing is,

the top holiday destination. Is it now? Well, if you have never been

that, you should definitely should. Joanna, you would be welcoming

Cleethorpes, a wonderful beach and the countryside. Terrific community

to live in and a wonderful environment. Good quality of life

here, come and visit. I am definitely tempted, now I know you

have the best fish and chips. Fish and chips and a whole host of other

restaurants to do in both times, Cleethorpes and Grimsby. They are

inseparable, Lloyd? Yes, they are like mothers and sisters. My mum has

a guesthouse in Cleethorpes, so if you need somewhere to stay, I'm sure

she would do you mate 's rates. It was filmed in Grimsby Cleethorpes,

so that is why people will like it. Why didn't they? Logistically, it

was more sense to be based down the road in Tilbury. Also I don't want

to make an enemy of Sasha Baron Cohen because I want to be one of

his films one day. But if you're going to take the Mickey out of one

time, you will come up with opposition. It was too good common

environment and the films they were still am -- the films they were

filming, they did, do some research. Thank you for your company today, I

will see you tomorrow. MUSIC: Close To You

by the Carpenters Will Scotland finally

turn the tide against Italy?