19/02/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

This morning, a desperate mum tells us she's addicted to shoplifting

Stealing - yeah, it's an addiction, because I'm doing something that

I don't want to do and I'm trying to fight.

"Laura" estimates she's stolen around ?100,000 worth of goods over

Talks are will start again in around an hour or so.

But what happens inside those negotiations?

We'll bring you an insight from a diplomat who's been

And date me, I'm disabled - we'll bring you a frank conversation

I had people around the saying nasty things, I would have parents pulling

their children away from me. So that kind of destroys your confidence

quite a lot. If you have no confidence, how are you ever going

to have a sexual relationship? Welcome to the programme,

we're on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until

11am this morning. Throughout the programme we'll bring

you the latest news and sport. Of course, we'll keep you up to date

with all the developments from Brussels as David Cameron

continues to try and get European leaders to agree to a deal changing

Britain's relationship with the EU. As always, we've got lots of other

stories we really want to hear from you about - please do get

in touch to share your thoughts I will try to read as many of your

messages as I can, particularly if you are pertinent and you have a

personal experience relevant to the conversation.

Texts will be charged at the standard network rate.

And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

you are via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria.

In an exclusive interview a mum of two tells us she's addicted

to shop-lifting and is desperate for help to stop.

The woman, who we're calling Laura and not identifying,

says she's been stealing for over 20 years since the age of seven.

In that period it's estimated she's stolen goods worth

But that is just our rest to. -- just our estimate.

One addiction expert has told this programme that shoplifting is a far

bigger problem than most of us realise.

Laura says she's desperate for help, she's been to visit her GP and had

talking therapy sessions - but nothing has worked.

She wanted to speak publicly in the hope that it would act

as a final push for her to tackle the problem.

It's for that reason we agreed to protect her identity.

She explained how she first began stealing -

Since the age of seven I've been stealing and it has just gotten

bigger and bigger, to the point where it is out of control

And what kind of things did you take then?

Toys from primary school - it would be toys children brought

in and put into their tray, or if I was at a friend's house,

it would be something like a hair band or a crayon,

something I fancied that caught my eye.

And did you just do that because you wanted to,

I did it mainly because I wanted to, because I wanted that item,

but I wanted it because I didn't have it, and I would ask my parents

to buy me certain things and they wouldn't, so I would just

How much stuff do you think you have taken over those years,

OK, so from shops, the value - gosh, from perfumes,

make up, high-street shops, clothing, shoes, accessories.

From work, money out of the till, money out of people's

I don't think that costs too much - don't take it.

If I can take it I will take it, so if it is ?200 out

of the till at work then that is what I will take.

Over the years, we've worked out you've probably stolen goods

Slightly surprised, but not really, just because of how long I have been

stealing and the extent to which I've been stealing.

Where I say it can be daily that I'm stealing, and ?100,000

Could I have a look at some of the things that you

So this is from a high street clothes store?

I was going out, I needed something to wear.

I looked online and saw this skirt and I thought, I want that skirt,

so I went to that department store and just look for one in my size

How much was it, do you remember?

Perfume? Yeah. Products. Cream, facial cream. Facial cleanser.

Highlighter for your face. This is... This is about since January.

In total, or is there other stuff? There is other stuff, mainly

perishables, which I couldn't bring, jam, serial, washing powder,

nappies. When you steal something from a shop all from a friend or

money from eight till, what is that feeling like? Can you describe it?

From work, it's basically an urge. That is how I feel. I see something,

I wanted, then something in my brain is just telling me, you want it, so

take it. It is working in my brain, just on at me, working out a way,

basically, to get what I want. Stealing costs British shops over ?5

million a year, that means therein Sheron 's premiums go up, the cost

of the goods go up for the rest of us. I think the costs go up in

general anyway. That they say it is not a victimless crime. No, it is

definitely a victim crime. Because I am taking off, I am stealing off

somebody. There are victims at the end, but I feel that the big bosses

of high street stores, it will not affect them. After I take it, a lot

of the time I feel guilt, especially if it is taken off a friend or

someone I know. When I steal from a department store I do not feel as

guilty, I think, they will not notice, they make a lot of money

anyway. You steal from friends now, as an adult? Not as often as I used

to, but yes, there are times. Stealing from your friends... They

are your friends. They are your friends. Oh, my goodness. What are

you thinking? I am just thinking that is what I want. I once that

skirt all those shoes, that is all I am thinking. If I don't steal the

item on that day, I go home, there is a lot of guilt in my mind. Like

it is an argument in my mind saying, just don't take it, you don't need

it. But there is a bigger thought in my mind saying, but you like it, go

and take it. Once I have taken the item, the guilt eats me up, I feel

so bad. On occasion I have returned something to my friend peers house,

on other times I have not because I have not seen how it is possible or

I really wanted it. The maximum sentence for repeatedly stealing is

six months in jail. I didn't know... I couldn't imagine going to jail. I

don't even want to think about that. It is that scary. You could be

jailed. You have two children under ten. Is that... Why is that not

enough to make you stop? It should be enough. Something may be

psychological, that is all I can think of. I know how much I want to

stop. I am scared of being arrested, let alone going to jail. I am scared

of being taken to a police station. If that is not scary enough, if I

can't fight that, there must be something in my brain, some

chemicals or something, that are stronger and are outweighing the

fear. You believe this could be a condition that is similar, perhaps,

to an addiction to alcohol or drugs? Yeah. Stealing, yeah, it is an

addiction, because I am doing something that I don't want to do,

and I am trying to fight, but I am not sure what kind of pleasure I

get. Have you experienced pleasure from having successfully stolen?

Afterwards, yeah, I suppose, when I get home and see what I have got, I

am happy that I have these nice new things all I have got my shopping

for free. We all like to have a bargain. To me, it is more than

that. When I go home and I see how much of a bargain I have made for

myself, it makes me happy. Do you want to stop stealing? 100%. Not one

part of me wants to steal any more. I wish I did not get the urge, I

wish I could fight it. I wish when I am in the shop taking things,

walking out, that I would be strong enough to put them back or just to

initially not pick them up to begin with. Just to be a normal person who

has got their shopping list, buys what is on it and leaves the store,

not pocketing things and putting things in my bag, it is not nice. Do

you steal when your children are with you? Yeah. Do you not worry

that they might talk about it to their dad or...? Slightly, but I am

more worried they will pick up my bad habits and ended stealing, that

would be my worst nightmare. You are an intelligent woman, you went to

university, you work, you are bringing up two children, your

husband has a good job. You know it is wrong. I do. So stop. It is not

that easy. I have seen a therapist, that is how bad it got. I was bad

enough to go to the doctors, tell her I needed help. She referred me

to a therapist, I had a 12 week session where I was given methods to

stop Mike chain of thoughts, tasks, don't steal for this week, I tried,

but the urge has been inside me for so long that 12 weeks of therapy is

not enough. I have done this for 20 years of -- or so. I have been

caught twice, when I was a bit younger from a high street store,

both the same store. I was caught on leaving the store, taken to a back

room, kind of being disciplined, belittled, then I had to pay for the

items. Locally the police were not called. Perhaps because I could pay

for the items. But that was really lucky. What was that experience

like? I felt degraded, ashamed, and Riyadh myself, stupid at myself. How

could I let myself get into that situation, why am I stealing things

when I know I have the money to buy them. Your husband, siblings,

friends, kids don't know? No. What if you told your husband? Would that

help you to stop? I don't think you would understand. I don't know. It

is not normal, it is not what people do and it is quite embarrassing, I

am ashamed. It took a lot to go to the doc. Why are you telling us? I

want to raise awareness and I want help. What I am doing is not normal,

I am not happy and I want to stop. I thought maybe by talking to you, AP

raise awareness, maybe give me more confidence to go back to my doctor

and say, therapy hasn't helped, is there anything else you can do? Have

you thought about what else you could do? Therapy, OK, it probably

wasn't long enough, maybe not even intense enough. It did not get down

to the cause of me stealing. Apart from therapy, I think hypnotherapy

might work, it works and a lot of other situations. For all the people

watching who are thinking, just stop, it is all about your

willpower? I want to just stop, generally I have quite good

willpower when it comes to other things in life, I have tried to stop

and I just can't. I tried, sometimes they even change my handbag when I

am going out, I carry a bag that is really small but I can't fit

anything into, I will still work out a way to take something. I really do

want to stop. I wish it was just as easy as stopping all, I don't know,

just telling myself, today I am not going to steal, but it is not that

easy. I will try, but I don't know what to do.

That is Laura on her 20 year shoplifting addiction.

Do get in touch in the usual ways to react to that interview.

If you work in a shop tell us the impact of shoplifting

on your business - or perhaps, like Laura,

you think you have a similar addiction.

Text 61124 or you can contact me on facebook.

A couple of comments. Someone on Facebook says Gilles is addictive,

people need understanding. That is not an excuse for the behaviour, but

it is about getting to the root of the matter, not just dealing with

the symptoms in a crass, sanctimonious way. Matthew on

Facebook say she should be locked up in jail. David says no thieves are

blaming what they do on an addiction, Laura needs a lengthy

jail sentence, not help. Later in the programme we'll speak

to an addiction expert who tells us shoplifting is a far bigger problem

than most of us realise. And if you've been affected by any

of the issues raised in our film with Laura and are looking

for further help, support or information on addiction then

please call the BBC Action Line Another all-nighter at the EU

summit, but what's it like behind the scenes, trying to close that

deal and smoothing ruffled feathers? We speak to one diplomat

who did it for Britain. Is sex for people with

disabilities a taboo subject? Disabled people tell us

about the barriers they say they face to having

a healthy sex life. First it's the main

news this morning. Cameron has resumed discussion on

the second day of negotiations in Brussels.

Talks continued into the early hours but there's no deal yet.

British sources, as well as the President of The European Council,

say there's been progress but there's still plenty to do.

The EU is to hold a special summit with Turkey on the migrant crisis

next month while Austria imposes a cap on asylum seekers,

despite warnings it's breaking EU laws.

ATI Asylum applications will be accepted at the southern border

every day. -- 80. A new blood test could help detect

inherited heart conditions, which the British Heart Foundation

says is quicker and more reliable More than half a million people have

inherited heart conditions in the UK.

At least one person has been injured after a house in Haxby near York

was destroyed and several others damaged following an explosion.

North Yorkshire police say it's thought to have been caused by a gas

leak, but that is unconfirmed at this stage.

Homes in the Springwood area have been evacuated.

The area is cordoned off and there will be disruption

to the surrounding area as emergency services work to protect

Shoplifting is a far bigger problem than most of us realise.

That's what one addiction expert has told this programme.

A desperate mother who has stolen roughly ?100,000 worth of goods over

20 years so she is addicted to shoplifting but wants help to stop.

Could this be the end of the password?

HSBC is to launch fingerprint and voice recognition services

It means internet customers will no longer have to remember passwords,

and memorable dates, to access their accounts.

Let's catch up with all the sport now.

Another busy morning here at the BBC Sports Centre.

Coming up on the show a bit later, we're hearing from the man

in charge at Fakenham racecourse in Norfolk.

Not often a race there makes the headlines,

but it's not every day a double Olympic cycling champion rides

Victoria Pendleton is continuing her transition from bike to horse.

She's set to make her debut around a regulated jumps

Now it was another disastrous night for Manchester United last night.

More pressure on manager Louis Van Gaal with his side losing

the first leg of their Europa League last-32 match against

He does have an excuse for the 2-1 defeat in Denmark though.

Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.

Elsewhere, Tottenham and Liverpool both drew their games.

You won't want to miss part of our interview with new England

rugby league head coach Wayne Bennett.

He rarely gives in depth interviews and so took a bit of warming up.

That and more coming up just after 10am.

In the next half hour or so a group of politicians,

advisors and negotiators will meet in a soulless

room in the Council of the European Union in Brussels

trying to thrash out a deal on the future of Britain's

David Cameron is there, although pretty shattered no doubt

alongside other heads of states of various countries

They went through the night, talks breaking up at about 4:30am

and resuming at some point in the next hour or so.

The President of the European Council Donald Tusk says "a lot

Sir Nigel Sheinwald, who was the UK's Ambassador

and Permanent Representative to the European Union from 2000

to 2003, has worked through the night on a number

of occasions as Britain's most senior diplomatic representative

and can give us an insight into what might be going on right

What is the atmosphere like? There are a number of rooms. It is a

soulless building. The Prime Minister said yesterday when he met

one of his opposite numbers, we are going to spend a lot of time in this

building over the next few days. It is a necessary part of the European

government and they do not enjoy it but get used to it. There is a big

negotiating chamber where the heads of government get a seat and that is

where I perform on ago she Asians take place. Even in the negotiating

chamber or over dinner in a separate dining room is where they will be

negotiating together -- negotiations. The Prime Minister has

to listen for the torn and language that people use. They will not be

surprised by the basic arguments but want to hear whether things are

going to be more or less difficult than expected. When you are able

people do get a sense for their body language and whether this is going

to be possible. One of the ideas that has come through from the

Belgian and French, that this is going to be the last negotiation for

a while. I do not think people had necessarily reconciled with that. It

is only when you get round the table you hear the negotiating positions

and you have that sinking feeling, we have ten quite big issues to deal

with. I am not sure it is ten in this case. That is the position

reached in the middle of the night. The Prime Minister had individual

meetings in smaller rooms but equally soulless with individual

heads of government and with the heads of the European institutions,

the head of the commission and the chairman of the meeting, Donald

Tusk, who are the ones who are going to create the deal among the

spiralling member states. What will happen this morning as everyone will

reconvene but before you get back to the big negotiating chamber David

Cameron and Donald Tusk and others need to have a sense they are moving

forward and will do that by suggesting compromises and ways

through an individual meetings with France, central European countries,

Angela Merkel will be working the corridors as well. In addition there

is a lot of activity going on. 28 delegations and lots of scurrying

around trying to get to a position where everyone is comfortable with

what is on the table. Is it sensible to remain calm and diplomatic? Was

ugly it is but not always possible -- presumably. People are exhausted.

The Belgians resenting the time being spent on what Britain wants.

There are many other problems in Europe at the moment. You have a

migration crisis which is continuing. We are not the only

issue. We have brought this to the table because of our perception of

European and British politics. There is frustration which comes after

half a century of Britain being often the difficult squad at the

table. We are alone for that and are not going to change. That is how we

are. We are more stubborn than our European colleagues. When you were

are. We are more stubborn than our involved, what is the moment you

remember of a farce or genuine breakthrough? You were asking if it

is all good tempered, it is not always, people get tired. Those

under pressure are the ones who are more likely to show anger or

annoyance or whatever. During a big budget negotiation as part of the

negotiation to budget negotiation as part of the

countries of the EU in the early 2000 there was a big discussion

about the European budget and what we would do about European

agriculture and Britain wanted to reduce the amount of money spent on

European agriculture, the then French president did not like that.

At the end of the session he said to the British delegation I have never

been taught to like that. He did not like the directness of the critique

of European agriculture. When things go 141, two, three days, people are

tired and more irritable. The job of the professionals is to

atmosphere reasonably calm so you can find a way

atmosphere reasonably calm so you usually finding through with not

with guns and swords but with language, words, that can find

with guns and swords but with of bridging the gap will hopefully

retain the essence of of bridging the gap will hopefully

once. That is what is going on at the moment. Thank you. The UK

ambassador and permanent representative to the European Union

from 2000 until 2003. Coming up: Sir Richard Branson

reveals a new version of his spaceship later today,

one year after an accident that

killed one of his test pilots. We'll be speaking to one

of the first customers who signed up Next this morning -

a frank conversation Being told you're not sexual,

that you have to accept you can't have sex, seeing friends visibly

recoil when the topic is raised - that's the kind of thing some

disabled people say they face One charity, Enhance the UK,

is calling for all staff in care homes, as well as doctors,

nurses and other health professionals who work with disabled

people, to have training on how They want everyone who has a care

plan to have their sexual needs For many people with disabilities,

sex - or lack of it - isn't an issue -

but for others it can be. Romina Puma is a comedian

who was diagnosed with muscular dystrophy ten years ago and has used

a wheelchair for the last three. She says she's struggled to cope

with the way people have begun to desexualise her and has been

to meet other people with disabilities to talk

about what for many This film contains frank sexual

conversations from the very beginning and lasts

about 15 minutes. I have muscular dystrophy,

which is a rare muscle waste To give you an idea of the effect it

has on me, it is like my facial muscles are falling down,

and so is my vagina. Like if I wanted to do

a vajazzle, it would look Until a few years ago,

my life was pretty normal. I used to have a boyfriend,

I used to go out on the pull, I used to get with guys,

but then my condition got worse and I started to use a wheelchair,

and since then it has been very Even if I use a wheelchair,

it doesn't mean that this part Sex and disability,

which sounds a bit like a remake Now I am going to meet other people

in my situation, to see how they coped with the challenge

in their sex life. I want to know if our society

is ignoring disabled The day when I was diagnosed,

it was terrible. It was like the world

was smashing me down. I didn't know how I was going to end

up, so I was in the complete dark. To learn more, I'm off to Sheffield

to meet one couple who lived When you don't look the same

as everybody else people I had, you know, people around me

saying nasty things. I would have parents

pulling their children away from me. So that kind of destroys your

confidence quite a lot. If you have no confidence,

how are you ever going I just pushed it aside

because in my own mind I was more scared about being

accepted. My biggest anxiety was,

will he even want to hold my hand Yeah, and Jamie knew

who I was and how I am, and then as we got together

and developed our relationship we had sexual confidence

with each other. And how did that

relationship change you? There is no way I am ever

going to be able to do all the positions of the Kama Sutra

but, hey, show me a person that can. I think what's more important

is that we are actually happy together, and whatever

we do in the bedroom What would you like to say to people

who still don't recognise the fact that even if we are disabled

we still need and want a sex life? We are absolutely no

different to anybody else. We are human, with the same needs,

wants and desires as anybody else. And until disabled people are seen

as that, the rest isn't In a way, I found their experiences

quite similar to mine. It was nice to see that they found

each other and they can have a life together and they are accepted

for who they are, and so it But what if a partner isn't

an option, or your disability means Then you could call on a sex worker

or a trained therapist. It's something I want

to know more about. I'm very much working

with people to identify, you know, where their obstacles

are around their sexual pleasure. That might be that they need some

education, they need to understand the basics of, you know,

adult sexuality. It might also be, let's look

at your situation with regards to your living situation,

your lifestyle situation, your particular

disability or illness. How is that going to affect

you having sex with someone? And really work out the absolute

practical aspects of having sex. Sometimes I have had clients,

disabled clients, where it could be something really simple,

like severe arthritis, so how do they actually figure out

how to experience pleasure for themselves when their hands

aren't moving and they might not So rather than just focus on one

particular area, it is giving a chance to really experience touch

all over the body. What works really well,

what are the areas that are really sensitive,

are there areas that maybe we can I have colleagues, trained

colleagues, who can then be available to actually

give some practice. It is almost

like skills practice. The difficulties disabled

people go through - what do you see,

what's the difference? When they're not acknowledged, it

can lead to depressive conditions. It can lead to real frustration,

because they are often surrounded by carers, so they do receive touch,

but it is very functional. And, you know, that can be an erotic

experience but they can't do So that can cause all sorts

of issues for them, but then to suddenly be in a situation -

not with their carers - but with someone else where they can

say, you know, I feel horny, You know, and to have

that door open for them, I think that is what can make

such a big difference. If a person with a disability goes

to their GP or happens to have an interaction in a hospital

or whatever it is and is saying, There is not only the attitude

change but there is, yes, this is what is available

in the area, this is how I was diagnosed when I was 23,

and I'm 50 in about two weekends. I had many girlfriends,

then I was diagnosed and I had many I think because I was in a rush

before I hit a wheelchair, And it is true - the second one's

bum hits a wheelchair, you're not at all

interesting to anyone else. When you couldn't get

the ladies any more... Yes, so that is when I started

to pay for a sex worker, They were great, and they

were in for an hour. Then they would leave,

and that's it - no worries. Do you have only one sex

worker who comes along? No, I choose new ones every time,

but it is only once a month Why don't you keep the same sex

worker? Again, a good question,

but I don't do it because I don't It is nice to just see them

for an hour and that's that. LAUGHTER What I like and what works

for me is oral sex a lot. After those sessions do

you feel better? Because you have done something that

you have longed to do Before a girlfriend

was essential, really essential. Just to meet my needs -

if it's being a voyeur, whatever. If it's for the actual physical

process, it was all necessary. Well, I'm quite obsessed with sex,

to be honest with you, and I kind of did the same thing

that you did, before I tried to get as much as I could,

and now it is really hard. It was nice to see how his journey

was to get to the realisation of how hard it is to have sex

when you are disabled. And is that something that

you consider doing before? Sometimes, yes, I have

thought about it. Because sometimes you really need

human contact, you know, touch. But so far I have never contacted

one, but it is there, The way people look at me

is completely different. They look at you with the kind

of sympathy or pity - They don't see me

as a person any more. The thing that they see is just

a wheelchair and they can't I am on my way to meet one man

who has worked hard to get women Andy was 36 when a motorbike

accident changed his life. Most people who see

you in a wheelchair just And I say, trust me,

walking is the last thing that It is bladder, bowels

and sexual function. After his accident,

and the proposed to his girlfriend, but later the relationship

broke down. The sex was kind of hard

to start off with, Basically they will give you some

Cialis or Viagra or something and say, right, go

away and try that. They never actually had

any counselling on... Not what to do but, you know,

on how it's going to work, to the point that when we got

married, until the time we split up, which was a very short period -

we didn't even actually consummate the marriage - you're just thinking,

I can't feel my penis. It would get to the stage

where Laura would be saying, So I would find myself

making excuses, saying, I'll just watch the end of this

film, love, and I'll be up, knowing that by the time I went up

she would be asleep. So you didn't have any sort

of advice or some help? No, not really, just

trying different kinds I have learned a lot

of things since that time, that actually you don't even need

to have penetrative sex to enjoy it. Is it more interesting, more

like you can explore other things? On the part of my body I can feel

are more sensitive, you know. I have the most hypersensitive

nipples in the world, you know, so if someone

just goes like that, I mean, one day I was having sex

and I guess it would have been probably at the point

when I would have ejaculated you get kind of like a tingling thing,

almost like a spasm. It was from here and all the way

down my body into my legs, and what it has done is totally

turned the way I have To coin a cliche I suppose,

you are actually making love rather Give us a chance -

just talk to me and I'll show you that I have a brain,

I can make a conversation, And it's going to be fun

in the bedroom as well, you know! Even through my comedy I'm trying

to raise awareness and, you know, I hope we are going to get

to the point where we will be considered like any other person,

not just, you know, you're disabled. Suzanne says married 30 years to my

husband, a wheelchair user since the age of 17, sexiest man I've ever

met. Love and lust. Another tweet, I

admire the way you talk about difficult subject that need airing.

Jack says that both the shoplifting interview and the sex film handled

bravely and sensitively. In the next hour -

we'll speak to Romina Puma who made As always you can watch and share

that film on our programme Let's hear from the

Minister David Cameron in Brussels. Here he is.

Good morning. Well, he looked quite serious. He

clearly still has a little bit of work to do, David Cameron in

Brussels looking quite sombre as he walked back into those talks. I

don't know if he has had a shower or changed his shirt, anyway... We will

update you after the news and sport at ten o'clock.

A glorious start across the country, but very cold, widespread frost for

many areas and ice through the morning. That is gradually

diminishing as a weather front works in from the West. After the bright

frosty start, the clouds streaming, sunshine this appearing and turning

windy. With this weather front already into Northern Ireland and

western Scotland, pushing into much of western Britain, tightly packed

isobars, so it will be windy, that Italy Irish Sea coasts. The rain

will eventually arrive across the far south-east and East Anglia into

the middle part of the afternoon, hazy sunshine holding on before it

turns cloudy. Temperatures with the strong south-westerly winds will be

rising, nine or 10 Celsius, milder than in the last few days.

Outbreaks of rain in western Wales, south-west England, could be frosty

at times. Maybe some transient snow over the higher ground of Scotland

as the rain bumps into the cold air. The wettest and windiest weather

will clear away, leaving drier interludes with patches of rain,

violent, mist and murk. For Scotland, Northern Ireland and

northern England, frequent showers, certainly for Scotland, where we

will see snow even down to lower levels. Much milder for England and

Wales than the last few nights. Into the weekend, we had to look to

the Atlantic and the pressure chart paints a very nice picture. This

area of high pressure will be drawing up wall or mild air across

the southern half of the UK, south of this weather front. Cold air

moving from Greenlands will be affecting the northern half of the

UK. We have a north/south split through Saturday, it will be very

wet. The weather front will be producing a lot of rain for

north-west England, Northern Ireland and Wales, you could see minor

flooding in places. Frequent showers to the north of it with snow on the

hills, maybe down to lower levels. But that the temperatures, double

figures in the south, four or five across Scotland. A north/ south

split on Sunday. The weather front is waxing and waning. Snow to

central and southern Scotland as well. It is the dividing line

between the cold across the North and very mild across the South. Look

over the rainfall on Saturday and Sunday. Especially Sunday you could

see a lot of rain. See you later. Hello, it's 10am, it's Friday,

I'm Victoria Derbyshire. David Cameron says he would only do

a deal if we get what Britain needs, as he arrived for further talks on

his European reforms in Brussels. It will keep you up-to-date.

After 20 years of shoplifting, a mum says she desperately needs

Stealing - yeah, it's an addiction, because I'm doing something that

I don't want to do and I'm trying to fight.

We have estimated Laura has stolen ?100,000 of goods over 20 years. You

can watch the full interview on our programme page. We will talk to an

expert on addiction who says shoplifting addiction is a much

bigger problem than people realise. We will bring you a frank

about -- disability and sex. six. --

I had, you know, people around me saying nasty things.

I would have parents pulling their children away from me.

So that kind of destroys your confidence quite a lot.

If you have no confidence, how are you ever going

David Cameron has arrived for another day of talks in Britain

after -- in Brussels. I was here until 5pm working through this and

we have made some progress but there is still no deal and I will only do

a deal if we get what Britain needs so we're going to do some work and I

will do everything I can. The EU is to hold a special summit

with Turkey on the migrant crisis next month while Austria imposes

a cap on asylum seekers, despite a warning

it's breaking EU law. 80 asylum applications will be

accepted at the southern border A new blood test has been developed

which can identify all known The British Heart Foundation says

it's quicker and more reliable More than half a million people have

inherited heart conditions At least one person has been injured

after a house near York was destroyed and several others

damaged following an explosion. North Yorkshire police say it's

thought the blast in Haxby was caused by a gas

leak, but that is Homes in Springwood have been

evacuated and the area is cordoned off while emergency

services work to protect Could this be the end

of the password? HSBC is to launch fingerprint

and voice recognition services The bank says its internet customers

will no longer have to remember passwords or memorable places

and dates to access their accounts. Donald Trump has heaped praise on

Pope Francis after the pontiff questioned his Christian faith.

Donald Trump had originally called the remarks disgraceful after the

pontiff had criticised him for a proposal to build a wall on the

border with Mexico. CCTV footage shows the London businessman being

attacked for his Rolex. 46-year-old was left unconscious and police are

appealing for help to catch the robbers.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Ben.

It's a big day for this lady, Victoria Pendleton.

The double Olympic cycling champion continues her move

She's set to make her debut around a regulated jumps

It's happening at Fakenham racecourse in Norfolk.

David Hunter is in charge there and joins us now.

Quite a transition this for a cyclist?

Absolutely. It is switching saddles but that is about the only link

between a race saddle and a bicycle saddle. She has made tremendous

progress over the last years since she started as a novice having never

sat on a horse. It she started as a novice having never

determination and courage. We have seen some photographs of what she

can expect. She fell at her last meeting. Bigger fences. Yes. She is

running over the regulation fences which are four foot six. Last ones

she has done have been amateur fences which are slightly smaller.

She is under the rules of racing and she is with amateur jockeys as well

but it will be certainly a step up in class. What time does the race

begin and what could she win if she comes first? She is in the sixth

race which is that 4:10pm. She is one of six competitors or six

jockeys. There is only one other gentlemen, so she is up against four

other amateur sports ladies and demand. The winning owner of the

race will get a trophy which is a fantastic solid silver horse jumping

timber fence and the winning connections have the use of that on

the mantelpiece for a year and I am sure is Victoria is in the line-up I

would not be surprised if we have someone holding this. She has to get

round the track first. Let us wish her and the other jockeys the best

of luck. Thank you. Elsewhere this morning,

lots of the papers labelling Manchester United's Europa League

defeat at FC Midtjylland They went down 2-1 in the first leg

of their last 32 tie It puts more pressure on manager

Louis Van Gaal who's blamed You know, the adage that anything

that can go wrong will. If you have a spare few minutes

online later check out our interview with England's new rugby league head

coach Wayne Bennett. His recent appointment means Aussies

are in charge of three of England's Wayne rarely gives in-depth

interviews so George Riley had What are you like when you are not

speaking to people and doing your job? I am just me. Are you an

introvert? Absolutely. You hate doing stuff like this? Yes. You have

been likened to Alex Ferguson. I have also been likened to Clint

Eastwood! Clint Eastwood and

Sir Alex Ferguson. That's all the sport for now,

Victoria. Have you ever interviewed anyone

like that? Several, but I cannot name them. If I knew more I would

name them! Thank you for joining us this

morning, welcome to the programme if you've just joined us,

we're on BBC 2 and the BBC We'll keep you up to date with those

talks at the EU summit in just a few minutes - but first lots

of you getting in touch about our interview with a woman

who says she's addicted Linda says, why has this woman

waited 20 years? Surely she knows she is good at it and it is a

compulsion and she does not worry about anyone but herself. This says

a brilliant look into how kleptomaniac could be a psychopathic

tendency. Sue says as the council give many reasons why Laura stop

shoplifting. Short-term therapy would not been enough and I would

encourage her to go back into long-term therapy. Those who want

her to go to prison do not have a clue what they are talking about.

Carroll says this has brought my addiction to the surface. I am the

same and for 30 years have been in a very good job and have the husband

and I have no need to do what I do but I cannot help myself. I have

seen a therapist going back 20 years but there is no one to help this

kind of addiction. I thought I was on my own but watching Laura made me

be lies it is much more widespread and must be recognised as the

condition. I have tried to stop and throwing the present card does not

help. Do continue to get in touch

with your reaction to and before the end of the programme

we'll bring you an interview with an addiction expert who says

addiction to shoplifting is much Wherever you are you can

watch our programme online - via the bbc news app or our website

bbc.co.uk/victoria. The talks are going on and on at

the summit where David Cameron's hoping to get agreement on reforming

the Uk's relationship with Europe. They negotiated through

the night til about 4:30am, then went off for a quick kip

or some breakfast or a shower We have made some progress but there

is still no deal. I would only do a deal if we get what Britain needs.

We are going to do some more work and I will do everything I can.

And if Mr Cameron gets agreement - then by the end of today,

he could be announcing our in/out referendum vote for this summer.

Live to Brussels and our political correspondent Ben Wright.

David Cameron looked sombre. What can you tell us? He has not had much

sleep. About two of three hours. He can see quite a long day of

negotiation. For all of the positive talk yesterday still big gaps on

issues we have discussed, in work benefits, child benefit, protections

for non-Eurozone countries. What we are hearing from the initial working

session that took place yesterday is that David Cameron threw down a new

demand, he flees for 13 years on those in work benefits as opposed to

four years -- a freeze. The French and Belgians have said there might

want to put a clause in the text that Britain will not be given a

second chance. There will be no second referendum if the written

votes to leave -- Britain. David Cameron has talked about the brake

on benefits for EU migrants working here who want to send child benefit

back home. David Cameron has mentioned a break of 13 years, which

is new to this, certainly to the European leaders. Yes. 13 years as

opposed to four years. One of the other sticking points on child

benefit, Downing Street wanted to apply -- want it to apply

across-the-board whereas European countries are saying if there is a

new role it should only apply to new migrants arriving in the country.

They have to get over that. Do we think there will be deal? The fact

they of comeback today should be strangely some cause for optimism.

Looking at the face of Francois Hollande and Alexis Tsipras, there

is a certain wariness, talking about child benefit in the UK when Europe

is facing insurmountable problems. There will be desire to try to get

past this and move on to what most Europeans see our bigger and bolder

issues. We have this clip of Francois Hollande. TRANSLATION: We

have to work again this morning because last night there were some

propositions changed, notably concerning France and financial

regulation applying across the whole of Europe and to which there is no

regulation applying across the whole right of veto or delayed so one

would be able to fight against speculation, financial crises, in

the same way. That is where we are. You can take your clothes as to who

is standing in the way of David Cameron -- clues. Also the Belgian

and Czech Republic Prime Minister is. A new draft will be put forward

ahead of those British lunch. Do not be surprised if it goes into

afternoon tea. Our political editor saying Downing Street is opening the

Prime Minister can return around 6pm tonight and hold the cabinet

briefing and tell them what is on the table and come out onto the

steps of Downing Street to make that public statement and presumably give

us a date for the referendum. That is his wish but there is a lot to do

before then. Is there going to be deal? I think so. People are so

exasperated that they are focusing on plane issues like child benefit

and in work benefits, crucial to Britain, but in the context of what

is happening in Europe they want to get on with it.

Thank you. You will be back if there is more.

Still to come before 11am: Sex and disability.

We'll be talking to people with disabilities

about the problems they face having a healthy sex life.

A new report given to this programme has found the number of under 18s

killed fighting for so called Islamic State is almost double

The report is from researchers at Georgia State University. They have

been looking at IS propaganda from January 2013 to January 20 16. They

have found 89 boys between the ages of eight and 18 have been killed

fighting for IS at that time. Rather be many more have been killed, these

are just the ones the researchers have identified from IS propaganda,

because I celebrate the death of those killed fighting for its cause.

because I celebrate the death of It categorises the different ways

that these boys are dying. It is shocking reading. 33% of those

killed have been killed on the battlefield, around 18% in attacks,

which they don't plan on coming back from, essentially kamikaze attacks.

They turn up at a checkpoint or target and shoot until they

themselves are killed. One of those shocking statistics is 39% of these

young boys are dying in suicide car bomb attacks. They strap themselves

with suicide vests, get into a car and attack military checkpoints, an

eight-year-old died last month. There are very young people fighting

with Isis. This gives us a real sense of the movements of ices in

the region? It gives us a sense of how able Isis continues to be to

move between Iraq and Syria. They don't believe that these two country

should be independent, they believe in a caliphate, so to speak. 51%

have died in Iraq, they come from all over the world, many of them are

from Syria, 36% or so. They are training young boys into Syria then

moving them to Iraq. There are outposts of IS around the world in

places like Yemen, Libya and Tunisia, deaths of children have

been recorded in those places as well. It has given us a broad idea

of just how big this situation, how serious it has become. I spoke to

Charlie Windsor, one of the authors of the report, he explained about

this data. Children aren't just

about the propaganda value. They are not just been featured

in videos as executioners. Of course, those are the times that

children are being featured in Western media reports

because they are the most shocking, when you see a child behead someone

or shoot someone in the back of the head or, more recently,

explode a car with three alleged But, yeah, this is much more

widespread and much more systematised than that kind

of propaganda would suggest. Children and youth are being used

because they have tactical military value, as well as the fact

that they have propaganda value. So it raises big questions around

the ethics of how you combat this sort of situation. If so many

children are being used on the battlefield, how do we fight this?

If children as young as eight are being deployed, do we continue to

bomb them? Some research says these children's are just as much victims

as anyone else. I asked Charlie has serious the situation is and what is

likely to continue, going forward. Will the numbers rise?

I think that it's a very terrible situation to be in but,

yes, as the military pressure against Isis increases

I would expect that there will be an acceleration of the amount that

And also a lot of these individuals that we are seeing are not children

- they are old enough to have passed through its indoctrination

in training camps already, so there is a whole lot more of this

to come, and it's a terrible situation to be in, but we have

What does this report is tell us about young people from Britain,

British youngsters going to fight for so-called Islamic State? In this

particular dataset they have identified two young men killed over

a 13 month period, but the BBC has identified a 220 boys under 18 who

have gone to fight for ices over the past five years and have been killed

in the process -- have identified 20 boys. We have taken the case of

Talhal Asmal, he went over in March last year and became the UK's

youngest ever suicide bomber at just 17. Within three months of arriving

in Syria he was at a point where he was prepared to blow himself up. His

parents made a powerful statement when his identity was revealed,

saying he was groomed online. This is extraordinarily serious for

security services in the UK to try to combat this level of rain

washing. Thank you, James Longman. He had access to that report. --

rain washing. Let's talk to Simon Trundle,

a consultant who advises the Government on security

and counter-terrorism. What do you draw from this?

Shocking, but not unusual. We have seen child soldiers in Somalia. It

is shocking that IS is promoting them as a hero, a young child aged

eight and younger wearing camouflage gear, used in a video recently to

allegedly detonated a vehicle with people in. He was four, that child.

The youngest children killed fighting for Isis are eight years of

age, according to this report. A tier children don't join so-called

Islamic State on their own, they don't radicalise themselves --

eight-year-old children don't. It is child abuse, Boris Johnson said it

is child abuse when you see a child in fatigues with a Kalashnikov. They

are not radicalised, they are following instruction. If in the UK

we find families trying to move to Syria, we might have the opportunity

to use child protection legislation to remove the children from the

family, that is another tool that can be used. In terms of Watmore the

authorities can do, the police, Government officials, the Department

education, what more can they do? If there is no intelligence, there is

nothing you can do. You can go on Eurotunnel, these the country if you

are not on a register. The battle is intelligence led, community

intelligence led. Whether members of the community are willing to say, we

know a family is considering going. We have had three generations, ten

or 12 people, of one family going to Syria. I don't believe that can

happen without somebody else knowing you cannot be that good in planning.

Often they say, we are going on holiday or to a wedding or a family

get together, of course they don't say they will join IS. But there are

indicators, how do grandchildren, grandparents and in-laws all go on

holiday together? The battle we have to keep fighting as local

intelligence. Will the community report concerns and, if they do, we

have a better chance. There are some young men, not aged eight or four,

who want to become a martyr for so-called Islamic State, to die

fighting for a cause they believe in. You will not get to them. Unless

we can get to them earlier and take them through a deal radicalisation

programme, which I do not think is effective, they will try to make

their own way over there, we cannot stop them. Thank you for coming in.

We have been talking about disability and sex this morning,

lots of you are getting into it should but the film we showed

earlier. Let me read some comments. Check on Twitter, we disabled people

are the wonky vegetables of the sexual world, not for everyone that

great value and worth the effort. Dave says I would like to get a

girlfriend first, then I can think about sex. Until then, my disabled

boys will -- life will be void and lonely. Callum says, great report,

humour and holiness! Misty says Brilliant stuff on disabled people

and sex. When I was very ill 25 years ago I was told I should not

have a relationship. Nigel has e-mailed to say I am watching your

programme this morning and have been struck by the power and sensitivity

surrounding the sexual issues faced by people with disability. We will

have another conversation before the end of the programme.

Richard Branson says space travel will be affordable for everyone

soon, and hopes that in the future he will be able to build

His comments come as he relaunches his Virgin Galactic project to send

The venture suffered a huge setback in 2014 after one pilot was killed

and another seriously injured after the spacecraft crashed

SpaceShipTwo is structurally identical to the one that crashed

Speaking from the Mojave Desert in California, where the new craft

will be revealed, Sir Richard said it will be a poignant moment.

The accident happened here in Mojave.

A lot of the team were watching when it happened,

But everybody picked themselves up, we had a big hug, and everybody ever

since, they haven't looked back, they've looked forward.

And I think the main thing is space is difficult.

We are trying to do things here that nobody else has managed to achieve.

The initial flights, it will be eight people in total

including the two astronauts flying the craft, so six people

going into space, and the initial flights are not enormously long.

They are what we call sub orbital flights.

You go into space, you get the spectacular views you would get

if you were going orbital, but they are relatively short

In time, we will go on to doing orbital flights, which can be,

you know, could be as long as two or three weeks.

And then one day we would love to build a Virgin hotel in space

and then people might like to spend even longer in space.

He's one of the first people to sign up to go on a Virgin

Hello. Thank you for talking to us. You still want to do it despite the

pilot being killed, tell us why? I think we deserved to carry on. After

the tragic loss of Mike Aylesbury 18 months ago, I think it would have

been wrong to cancel the project, he would have lost his life in vain.

With this unveiling today of the new spaceship, it is a greatly forward

-- great leap forward. Looking towards travel for lots of people.

Do you have faith in this one's safety? Obviously after the

accident, everything has been looked at, I imagine, more closely, I have

100% faith in the organisation and am looking forward to going out

Harvey myself eventually, seeing the spaceship. -- going out to Mojave.

We have had tours of the factory, we are seeing the young, bright people

building this patient. It is an incredible adventure. You have about

three days of training before the flight, what will that involve?

Weightlessness, going up and experiencing weightlessness just to

get you acclimatised, and pulling G-forces, because on re-entry your

body goes through a maximum of six G when the spaceship re-enters the

Earth's atmosphere. 18 months ago I went to NASCAR in Philadelphia, the

centrifuge facility, I did a two decors when they put you through the

entire space flight from take-off to re-entry. When you take off, you are

doing 3G, 3.5 G, as it accelerates to three times the speed of sound,

going vertically to take you up to the line 100 kilometres in altitude.

It all sounds slightly scary but also really exciting. Really

exciting and scary. I think you are right. Advice how much has this cost

you so far? I bought my ticket ten years ago, it was $200,000 then.

That was the price of a really nice car. If I'd have bought a really

nice card ten years ago I'd have a ten-year old car now, that I have a

brand-new ticket to go to space. It has been about the journey, meeting

the future astronauts, the experiences we have been invited to,

seeing the people building it, talking to the pilots, meeting the

person who came up with the original idea for SpaceShip, it is an

incredible journey. Sorry, this is personal, how have you afforded 200

grand? Hardly an inheritance. We have been careful over the years.

There are enough. If I had been driving in a range Rover, nobody

would give me a second look. They do not cost 200 grand?! Not far off

these days. And we are talking dollars. It is still a lot of money.

I wish you the best of luck when it happens, good luck with the

training. Still a bit of a way off? I can keep doing the training, I can

do the easy road she flights in the states if I want to, and I would

like to go back and do the centrifuge again, I found it very

interesting. Takes an wonderful photos when you get up there! I

think I ought to! Thank you, Richard. He will be on that space

flight whenever it takes off. Disabled people tell us

about the barriers they say they face to having

a healthy sex life. We will talk to one woman who says

her disability means she is made to feel the -- desexualised.

And we'll hear from the self-confessed shoplifting

addict who claims she's stolen ?100,000 worth of goods,

David Cameron has arrived for another day of crucial talks

in Brussels, after he and other European leaders negotiated long

into the night trying to secure a deal on Britain's future

He said there was still work to be done.

I was here until 5am working through this and we have made some

progress but there is still no deal and I will only do a deal if we get

what Britain needs so we're going to do some work and I will do

Our correspondent is in Brussels. You were asking if I would bet on a

deal and I said I would put money on a deal being done and I said that

because this man convinces me it is true. Why? I qualify this by saying

there could be a big surprise but I was with David Cameron and I thought

his demeanour was confident. He did not look as if he was about to storm

out. Delirious on two hours sleep. Probably exhausted. Downing Street

would love him to go back to London with a deal and kick off his

referendum campaign. They and everybody else want this wrapped up.

There are still hurdles around benefits and protections for

non-Eurozone countries. My hunch is they are surmountable. This arcane

and ridiculous things people are talking about, one of the curveballs

David Cameron threw on the table was apparently this 13 year emergency

brake. It is complex maths. Make it simple. This came from a national

briefing from another country who said that was what Britain was

asking for, 13 year application possibly of the emergency brake. The

emergency rate relates to restricting in work benefits like

tax credits. Top ups to salaries. That has been in the draft agreement

from the beginning. And new EU worker coming to the UK would have

their tax credits restricted for four years. Some debate about how

that would work. They would have to increase payments it seems over the

four years. What is up for debate is how long the policy can be rented.

-- implemented. Under what conditions could you apply it and

for how long and how many times? The suggestion is, one possibility is

the big UK comes to Brussels, to the European Commission, and makes the

case for applying this emergency brake and the commission will decide

whether the UK has a case and if so it goes to the European Council to

decide. The leaders, the top tier, could say they agree and the UK can

have this policy applied to every EU worker for seven years. After that

the UK would have the option of coming back and asking for an

extension, another three gears or three dears. That is what takes us

to 13 years. Cumulatively. Trying to debate that on little sleep. Another

card comes from the French and Belgians saying we are not doing

this again. You have one referendum and if you vote to leave see you

later. You are not coming back to go through this again. Very

interesting. Number 10 are not angry because although it increases the

pressure on everybody just now if it goes through, and it is in the final

communique, it scorches the idea this is a stepping stone towards a

second referendum or a long-drawn out agreement that can be added to

later. It helps Number 10 in their argument. This is it. This is the

deal. This is the final referendum. There will be no returning to this

question. Even though this has been added to the discussion by the

federal lists France and Belgium it could end up helping the argument

that Number 10 will be making once the referendum is under way. The

other big debate going on down on the floor is when they need to go

and get the train back to London because all of the political

correspondents want to be in Downing Street for when David Cameron

launches the campaign. Do they go early in the afternoon or wait?

So many questions to answer. Thank you for explaining the 13 year

thing. Meanwhile, there will be a special

EU summit with Turkey on the migrant From today Austria says it will be

limiting the number of asylum applications at its southern border

to just 80 per day, despite a warning it's

breaking EU law. The British Heart Foundation says

a new blood test has been developed which can identify all known

inherited heart conditions, affecting more than half

a million people in the UK. It's meant to be quicker and more

reliable than previous tests. At least one person has died

after a house near York was destroyed and several others

damaged following an explosion. Let's get the latest

from our correspondent Dan Johnson This explosion happened just before

7:30am. Neighbours describe a loud bang, they thought something like a

plane crash might have happened. One of the houses on this quiet broad

had completely been destroyed by this sudden explosion. You can see

some of the surrounding properties have been damaged by this explosion

and the house itself has completely disappeared. Police have confirmed

that one person has lost their life this morning in this explosion. That

is believed to be the 63-year-old man who lived about property. Lots

of the other houses on the street have been evacuated. Residents moved

away while the emergency services deal with what has happened. They

will not be drawn on what has caused this but the strong suspicion is

that is something to do with the gas supply. Engineers investigating and

police working to confirm the identity of the person who has died

in this explosion. Thank you. Former royal butler Paul Burrell has won an

action against Max Clifford. A judge in London has awarded him ?5,000 in

damages. Let's catch up with

all the sport now. Not a great morning to be

a Manchester United supporter. Louis Van Gaal says fans are right

to criticise their Europa League defeat to FC Midtjylland in the last

32 first leg last night. The first ever SheBelieves Cup will

take place in America next month. It's a tournament between England,

Germany, France and the USA. All three of England's games will be

broadcast on the BBC. It's not often a race at Fakenham

in Norfolk makes the headlines, but it's not every day an Olympic

cycling champion rides Victoria Pendleton will make her

debut around a regulated jumps And after a comfortable warm-up

victory, England's cricketers play the first of two Twenty 20 matches

against South Africa later. That's in Cape Town as is the second

T20 between England's women There'll be more sport on the BBC

News Channel throughout the day. "Ugly and undesirable," "Will

someone even want to hold my hand - how some disabled people have told

us they feel when it comes to sex. This morning we're having a frank

conversation about One charity, Enhance the UK,

is calling for all staff in care homes, as well as doctors,

nurses and other health professionals who work

with disabled people, to have training on how to address

patients' sexual needs. They want everyone who has a care

plan to have their sexual needs For many people with disabilities,

sex - or lack of it - isn't an issue - but for others

it can be, leading to Romina Puma is a comedian

who was diagnosed with muscular dystrophy ten years ago and has used

a wheelchair for the last three. She says she's struggled to cope

with the way people have begun to desexualise her and has been

to meet other people with disabilities to talk

about what for many Earlier we bought you her full

report - here's a short three minute extract which contains some frank

sexual conversations. I have muscular dystrophy,

which is a rare muscle waste To give you an idea of the effect it

has on me, it is like my facial muscles are falling down,

and so is my vagina. Until a few years ago,

my life was pretty I used to have a boyfriend,

I used to go out on the pull, I used to get with guys,

but then my condition got worse and I started to use a wheelchair,

and since then it has been very I want to know if our society

is ignoring disabled people's right When you don't look

the same as everybody I had, you know, people around me

saying nasty things. I would have parents

pulling their children away from me. So that kind of destroys

your confidence If you have no confidence,

how are you ever going I just pushed it aside

because in my own mind Yeah, and Jamie knew

who I was and how I am, and then as we got

together and developed our relationship we had sexual

confidence with each other. And how did that

relationship change you? There is no way I am ever

going to be able to do all the positions of the Kama Sutra

but, hey, show me a person that can. I think what's more important

is that we are actually happy together, and whatever we do

in the bedroom we are actually happy What would you like to say to people

who still don't recognise the fact that even if we are

disabled we still need and want We are absolutely no

different to anybody else. We are human, with the same needs,

wants and desires as anybody else. And until disabled

people are seen as that, I was doing some research

and I found the Kama Sutra Even through my comedy I'm trying to

raise awareness and, you know, I hope we are going to get

to the point where we will be considered

like any other person, not just, You can watch - and share -

our full film on the programme Melinda says travel to the brave

people in your film, it is amazing. Mark says it is refreshing to see

this important subject. Larry says this should be private. It has

become too public. Romina is here with us now,

along with Venessa Parekh, who has used a wheelchair

from young age. Also here to discuss

this is Jennie Williams, the founder of the charity Enhance

the UK, which campaigns for those with disabilities to get

proper sexual support. And Dr Tuppy Owens is

in Inverness for us - Tuppy has worked for decades

to improve disabled people's access We are not going to dance around the

issues. Why do you think it is so difficult to talk about disabled

people and sex? We are taught as society to look at disabled people

as one who has to be helped. There is not enough casual conversation

about the normal needs. People assume if you are disabled your not

going to be interested in sex. Is that right? People make that

assumption? Yes. As soon as you are in a wheelchair or say you have a

condition, people think you are not sexually attractive anymore. It

is... You are working properly, they do not want to have anything to do

with that. Are you apprehensive about talking about sex with your

friends? Sometimes, because I do not know how they are going to react and

if people turn away and looked at me with pity rather than encouragement,

I do not want to be scared. I want to talk about it like any

25-year-old Garwood to her friends about her sex life. Is it more a

British... I know you are in Italian and would not think twice about

it... I would not necessarily talk about sex with my friends, I might

after a few drinks but not Mrs Farrelly. I talk about it at

breakfast. How much harder do you find it to meet people because of

your disability? I don't get hit on in pubs. I am

very active online, I would be talking to people, I did not

disclose my disability for a fairly long time. We would be getting along

well, flirting etc, but once I do, about 50% of the people drop off.

The vice what do you think? On the other hand, 50% stick around, which

is cool. Once they know me, they are happy to keep the conversation

going, that some people see the wheelchair first and don't want to

take the effort. Tuppy, a founder of an organisation which helps disabled

people find sexual services, clearly there is a demand for it? Are we

talking about sexual services and not relationships? You can talk

about whatever you like, I am just interested that, in terms of your

organisation, people come to you in order to find somebody who can help

them? We run lots of things all to help disabled people. To help them

have a better private life. One is a sex and disability helpline which I

answer, I am a trained sex therapist and I get lots of different calls, I

can give you some examples. Outsiders is for disabled people,

this is only socially, physically and sensory disabled people, to make

friends, enjoy peer support and find partners. We have an online site

where people communicate and get to know each other, we also have

lunches around the country where they love meeting face to face and

sometimes talking about sex. What do you think about the conversation we

have been having this morning, it is a taboos subject, and there is

nothing wrong with talking about it? Of course not, it is fun to talk

about it. We encourage people to talk about it, to lose their

inhibitions and get to realise what sort of sex they want. Sometimes

they are not really sure, they have been so put down. Then we also run

the TLC 's side, which is for disabled men and women to access

sexual services, which is very useful for them. Sometimes they need

to reclaim their bodies from the medical profession, who have only

poked them or operated on them, to feel pleasure in their bodies. But

this really want to get educated on what their bodies are capable of

enjoying. -- of those really want to. And what they can do to help a

partner have a good time. And some others have a fetish and they can't

find anybody to satisfy that fetish, others just want to have a good

time, lose that the genital. Lots of guys say, I feel like a man because

I have had sex. -- lose their virginity. Jennie, your organisation

would like discussion about sexual needs to be included in a care plan,

why? If somebody acquires a disability, some people never go

home and they end up in a care home, lots of people are married, bots

have had relationships or are still in relationships. Generally

speaking, people go into single beds. I have not slept in a single

bed since I was a teenager. It makes you feel like a young person again,

not like a grown-up. Instantly that is taken away from you. Even to have

a partner state, you had to go through a risk assessment, all the

rigmarole just to have a partner stay. I visit care homes three times

a week, very rarely do partners stay. That is hard enough, let alone

if you don't have a partner and you want to meet someone. Karstadt, it

is really hard for them, you will get in trouble for inappropriate

behaviour for putting your arm around somebody and calling them

love, so let alone having a conversation about sex. There is no

training for care staff. It is all about planning and the care for that

person, but you go through care plans and there is nothing about

sexuality. Have medical professionals ever spoken to you

about your sexual needs, has it come up in conversation? Never. Why

haven't you bought it up? I always tried to manage by myself. But in

the last year or so, it has become even more difficult to get to know

someone because they don't approach me any more. I was thinking to get

some sex therapists, sex worker or something to be of... Something...

Give me something! I need this explanation Kayla says she finds it

shocking that sex and relationships are not part of care plans. Ritchie

says, I am 40 plus, a partially disabled ex-soldier and male model.

I have had no female contact for eight years. Women discriminate

harshly against mental disability. So few women want genuine men in

their lives, regardless of looks, personality, etc. I have fought for

my I hadn't even the way my own country and women in particular

my I hadn't even the way my own treat me. Jeremy says this is much

needed, treat me. Jeremy says this is much

portrayed on screen. Neal says it is not just sex, it is all relations

with women which make people uncomfortable in discussion. Yikes,

says someone on Twitter, pink disabled has caused me two

relationship write-downs, nobody disabled has caused me two

wants me as I have got worse and IBD miss having a sex life. What is to

be done? It is interesting that he said you do not often see sex and

disability in the media. You don't see much disability in the media. If

you ask somebody to think about disability, you would say that girl

on children's television with half an arm, people scraping the barrel

to find people represented. That is massive. Scope did a huge survey

saying that massive. Scope did a huge survey

avoid... Able-bodied people actively avoid talking to disabled people.

You had to change that, you had to create and promote change

You had to change that, you had to thought process of able-bodied

people to look through someone's disability and see them as sexual

beings the same as everybody else. Thank you all for coming on.

In an exclusive interview a mum of two tells us she's addicted

to shoplifting and is desperate for help to stop.

The woman - who we're calling Laura and not identifying -

says she's been stealing for over 20 years since the age of seven.

That is just an estimate. stolen goods worth over ?100,000.

She explained how she first began stealing -

Since the age of seven I've been stealing and it has just gotten

bigger and bigger, to the point where it is out of control

Over the years, we've worked out you've probably stolen goods

Slightly surprised, but not really, just because of how long I have been

stealing and the extent to which I've been stealing.

When you steal something from a shop, or from a friend,

or money from a till, what is that feeling like?

And then there is something in my brain that is just telling me,

So it is working at my brain, just on at me, telling me,

working out a way basically to get what I want.

Do you steal from friends now, as an adult?

Yes, not as much as I used to, but, yeah, there will be times

I want that skirt or I want those shoes, and that's all I'm thinking.

If I don't steal the item on that day, I go home and there is a lot

of guilt in my mind, like it's an argument

Is that wise - is that not enough to make you stop?

That's the only thing I can think of, because I know how

I'm scared of just being arrested, let alone going to jail.

So you believe this could be a condition?

Similar perhaps to an addiction, to alcohol or drugs?

Stealing - yeah, it's an addiction, because I'm doing something that

I don't want to do and I'm trying to fight.

There will be people watching you are thinking, just stop.

I just want to stop, and generally I do have quite good

willpower when it comes to other things in life, and I have tried

I sometimes even change my handbag when I'm going out.

I will carry a bag that is really small which I can't

I will still work out a way to take something.

Let's talk to Simon Stephens, who is an accredited member

of the British Association of Counselling and Psychotherapists,

and lead counsellor from the organisation Addictions UK.

We can also talk one of our viewers who's got in touch this morning.

She says she has a similar addiction to shoplifting.

She's talking to us anonymously this morning and we're calling her Poppy.

Simon, first of all, is a genuinely possible to be addicted to

shoplifting? Absolutely. Many people think it is purely about financial

gain, but it is an addiction in the same way that people can have

gambling addictions or, indeed, alcohol addictions or, indeed,

shopping addictions. Lots of our viewers say, come off it, it is an

excuse for criminal behaviour. To generalise in that way is not to

understand the problem. Some people feel an absolute compulsion to

behave in certain ways. We know this is true when we look at

obsessive-compulsive disorders, to which this is closely related. The

urges that Laura has described, give us more insight? From what is

happening, perhaps she does not realise, ultimately this is a desire

to suppress emotional sensitivities within. The action of shoplifting

produces adrenaline that goes on to produce dopamine, which helps

suppress those emotions. She may well not understand that is going

on, many addicts don't understand that is at the core of their

addiction, and they rationalise it by saying, I kind of enjoy it, I get

a buzz, and it does not matter what the addiction is, whether it is a

substance or a behaviour, people are asked, why do you do this? Let's

hear from poppy. Poppy, I will ask you that, why do you do it? Thank

you, Victoria. I have no idea. For 30 years, I have done this. I have

no need to do it, I am very affluent, I live in an affluent

area. Your show has highlighted to me that I do have an addiction, I

have no reason for what I do and I feel no guilt when I do it. However,

when I get back I feel guilty and I am reeling myself to try to

understand why I do it. Simon, what should Poppy, Laura and any others

do? Thank you, Poppy, by the way. Firstly it is accepting you have a

problem. I was interested that the viewer mentioned feeling no guilt,

that is the role of dopamine, it will cut down the feeling of guilt

at the time, but afterwards you will feel immense guilt, which recycles

because that is a strong emotion. Thank you very much for coming on

the programme. Joanna's presenting the programme

next week and most likely the week after depending on how my

chemotherapy session goes on Monday.