26/02/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


26/02/2016

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I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria, welcome to the programme.

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Mired in scandal after scandal with allegations of bungs

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and bribery - football's world governing body Fifa will elect

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This is the scene live in Zurich as Fifa's extraordinary congress

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begins - we'll take you there shortly.

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Three brothers who sexually abused teenage girls in Rotherham over

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a period of 15 years will be sentenced this morning.

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We speak to one victim who tells us she they controlled her life.

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Tackling homophobia, racism and sexism on campus -

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why some universities are banning debate.

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I was banned from Manchester for having the wrong opinions as a gay

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man, I think. I was supposed to talk about this feminism have a problem

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with free speech, and both sides of the debate were banned. They did not

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want the discussion to be had. Welcome to the programme,

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we're on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until

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11am this morning. We'll keep you across the latest

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breaking and developing stories. Later we'll bring you

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the extraordinary story of two long-lost sisters who spent 35 years

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looking for each other only to discover they'd been playing

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online bingo together It is an incredible story -

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meet them at around 10:30am. You can get in touch

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in the usual ways - If you text, you will be charged

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at the standard network rate. And of course you can watch

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the programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app

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or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria. They're one of the biggest,

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richest and most important sporting bodies in the world and today Fifa,

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who are effectively in charge of world football, will

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get a new president. Their motto is "for the game -

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for the world". But following allegation

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after allegation of bribery and corruption their reputation has

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been severely tarnished. Elections take place

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today to find a new man - and it will be a man -

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to become the new president of Fifa. That man will replace Sepp Blatter

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who stood down as the corruption crisis threatened to bring

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down the organisation. This is the scene live in Zurich

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as the special congress to elect The two front runners,

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Sheikh Salman and Gianni Infantino, are both claiming they have over

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100 pledges of support, Voters have a choice of five

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contenders. The frontrunner is Sheikh Salman from Bahrain, the head

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of Asian football. He has been a member of Fifa's ruling executive

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committee since 2013 and is the bookmakers favourite. His big idea

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is to split Fifa in two, the business side would deal with the

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commercial issues and handle all the money.

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It is to stop executives making self-interested decisions and,

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as has been seen recently, putting the hand in the Fifa piggybank.

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He is not without his issues: he has been accused of human rights abuses

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related to the pro-democracy demonstrations in Bahrain four years

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The uprising was part of the Arab Spring,

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Specifically, he is accused of heading a committee

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which identified footballers that took part in the demonstrations.

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He says the committee was never formally constituted,

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These are false, nasty lies that have been repeated again and again.

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People are talking about a committee, identifying players etc.

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Do you think that people would need to identify a national team player?

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Do I need to get involved in that? It's like asking the FA or the chair

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of the FA to come, please, can you identify David Beckham Steven

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Gerrard? He may be out in front,

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but this man, Gianni Infantino, In fact, he has big momentum,

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he believes that he can win. He is one of the leading figures

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at Uefa, the European Federation, and is positioning himself

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as someone that the world can trust. First of all, if somebody has stolen

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money, he has to go to jail. That is clear for me, so I applaud all the

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investigations by public authorities who are acting in this respect. When

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it comes to the running of football, this is our job. We have to show we

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can deserve it. He only looked to stand after his boss, Michel

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Platini, was charged by the ethics committee for taking ?1.3 million

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from seven latter. The genie says he owned the money, it is legitimate,

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but they have both been banned for eight years.

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Infantino support from Europe and South America, part of his pitch

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is to expand the World Cup to 40 teams, ensuring more smaller nations

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can participate and ultimately he thinks he can turn Fifa around.

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Critics say that he is Michel Platini's man.

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More to the point, there is plans to massively expand

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Questions remain about where the money comes

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Next up, Prince Ali bin al-Hussein, brother of the King of Jordan,

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He thinks this is the federation's last chance to get it right.

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He knows all about fighting Fifa elections, he lost

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against Sepp Blatter last May, but he is by getting significant

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Lets go, Fifa! This time around, he thinks he can win. It is the last

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chance to save the organisation and to get it back in the right shape,

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and to focus on my real goal, total development of football around the

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world. This time Europe are

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backing Gianni Infantino. still win, but many point

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to the fact that Sheikh Selman has the support of the home

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continent of Ali, and the more realistic role may

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see him play kingmaker, choosing between Sheikh Salman

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and Gianni Infantino after the first On policy, he would like to

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quadruple the amount that member believing it will

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increase sustainability. He also wants the money properly

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accounted for. former political prisoner,

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who spent time in jail with Nelson Mandela

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during the apartheid era South He is currently the Fifa envoy

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to Israel and Palestine. He wants to make a difference

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but he failed to get the support of African football leaders

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and he has been criticised that has led many to question

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whether he can even make it The final candidate,

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Jerome Champagne. The Frenchman believes that he can

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do better than many people expect. He is a former adviser

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to Sepp Blatter. He was forced out of Fifa

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after a series of disagreements. His knowledge of world football

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and power broking is beyond doubt, turning that into votes

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can be the tricky part. He has defended Sepp Blatter's

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record in the past, leaving many to question how close

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he is to the deposed Fifa president. Jerome Champagne insist that

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Sepp Blatter did many good things, like making sure smaller nations

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were well-financed and protected, especially given the huge wealth

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and power in European football. Large sections of the vote have

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already been divided up among national and regional lines,

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the swing states of the Caribbean Candidates are now going all out

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to secure backing as they attempt With us now to chew the fat on this

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is Deborah Wise Unger from Transparency International,

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who worked with Fifa on its anti-corruption

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policies back in 2011, and Gerry Sutcliffe,

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the former Labour Sports Minister who was involved in the England

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2018 World Cup bid. Thank you both for joining us.

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Deborah, is Fifa on the right path to redemption? I think it is too

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soon to say. The reform package that will be more important than the

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presidential election could help, it is in the right direction, but I

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think it is too soon to say that redemption is there. What would you

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like to see in the reform package? It does not go far enough for you?

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No, it does not have any independent oversight. Transparency

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International has always said that Fifa is so tarnished, the world does

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not trust it, it needs to have independent expert, people of high

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renown, to oversee the reform process. That is not on the table up

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a moment. Both Gerry Sutcliffe, the world does not trust Fifa, Debra

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says, would you agree? Yes, but you can't scrap it and start again, it

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has to operate from within. But with transparency and openness, as

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Deborah says. We need a reform package that means people can regain

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the trust not just from the fans but everyone involved in football. Will

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it go far enough if there is no independent oversight? Whoever wins,

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and I favour in -- in fancy know, has to start the process of ringing

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in a transparent and open project so that people are confident whether it

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is a World Cup bid or the development of football, it is being

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done properly. There is a mechanism which needs to be in place so that

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people can see what has taken place. Why Gianni Infantino for you? He is

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well known in European football, he has a good track record, he can

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deliver the goods. Alongside this is the police investigations, the

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judicial investigations. There is a long way to go. Who do you want to

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see? Out of the five, is to see who would do it without independent

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oversight. They have different problems, Infantino is too close to

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Platini, Salman comes from an autocratic kingdom, Champagne owes a

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lot about football but also has links to Blatter. I don't think any

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of them is a clean broom. Prince Ali has endorsed the idea of an

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independent oversight, he has got a team together. He said Kofi Anand,

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the former UN Secretary General, could run that team and see fever

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through the reform. We believe that would be a good idea -- C Fifa

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through the reform. One of the real problems is that Fifa has really

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lost the trust of the fans. We did a survey, 69% said they had lost trust

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in Fifa, but 50% said that Fifa could restore its reputation. There

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is hope, if it is the right things. Gerry says you can't scrap it and

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start again? It would be difficult, he is right. At the moment it is

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trying hard to maintain its status as a victim in the FBI

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investigations and allegations and insight. We don't know what the

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Swiss investigation which is ongoing will bring. If it continues to be a

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victim, it itself will not face prosecution. The Swiss have the

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authority to come in and scrap it, but they need a really good reason

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to do that will stop I think Jerry has a point, how you take away the

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reform body that runs world food ball and replace it with something

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else, you would put something in pretty much the same strip show.

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Gerry, every football fan has a view on what should be done. Why is it so

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difficult, how has it come to this? It has been a long, unhappy

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existence over the last ten years or so. If you scrap it, where do you

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bring in people who know the game? A balance has to be struck where

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people who know the game work alongside independent people who can

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be transparent. Loads of people know the game, why is it so difficult to

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find the right people? You say that, but administrators RA special breed

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in working out how a game can develop. The International Olympic

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Committee had to revitalise itself over a period of years. Revamp the

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organisation, independent transparency, but a small step

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forward will be the new president today. Lots of people are getting in

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touch on social media, Trevor on Facebook says scrap the whole

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corrupt organisation, Peter says all the candidates what the money to be

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accounted for, says it all, want to eat, Fifa is for the game, for the

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money. But you have individual food all associations which Fifa is made

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up from, if you scrap did you would have to go through the national

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games, it would take too long. We need something to happen quickly to

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regain trust in football. One thing would be to have all the senior

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people list that acid and interests. Then you would see if they were

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enriching themselves. That is basic. Absolutely basic, but nothing in the

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statutes says they had to do that, nothing in the new statutes they are

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voting on today, either. But we said if you list your acid and interest

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is, at the end of your stay at Fifa you would be able to see they had

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enriched themselves through the job, unfairly, through corruption.

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Transparency International worked with Fifa on anti-corruption

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policies in 2011, what was that with? It didn't get anywhere? In the

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beginning, we were enthusiastic, they wanted a thin, looked at our

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reform package and said it was interesting, then they announced

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their own set of reforms which they were going to control. They said, we

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don't want to look into the past, and we all know what happened in the

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past. Now we know why they did not want to looking good, it was mired

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in corruption and scandal. We backed off and said unless you want to do

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it with real independence and openness, we do not want to be a

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part. From the outset, openness, we do not want to be a

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offered advice, criticism and ideas along the way. The reform package

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has many of the basic standard good governance ideas in it. It is

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implementation, how will they do it? Thank you both very much, Deborah

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and Jerry. The Congress is ongoing. We will have more coverage through

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Still to come. reform and the new president.

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Three brothers who sexually abused teenage girls in Rotherham over

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a period of 15 years will be sentenced this morning.

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We speak to one victim who tells us they controlled her life.

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Is a brain drain of teachers contributing to a shortage of

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teaching talent in the UK? We hear from one teacher who has made the

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move abroad. Football's world governing body,

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Fifa, will elect a new president today to replace Sepp Blatter,

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who stood down amid a corruption More than 200 delegates

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will make their choice The two front runners

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are Sheikh Salman of the Asian Football Confederation

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and Uefa's Gianni Infantino. Michael Howard is backing the

:15:57.:16:11.

campaign to leave the EU. He was previously a mental to David

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Cameron, helping him to become party leader. George Osborne has warned

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that leaving the EU would cause an economic shock.

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Three brothers who subjected teenage girls to years of rape,

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violence and prostitution in Rotherham will be sentenced today.

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Arshid, Basharat and Bannaras Hussain will be sentenced

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It comes after a series of women, most now in their 30s,

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told a jury how they were sexually, physically and emotionally abused

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The Metropolitan Police has announced that Operation Elveden,

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which investigated illegal payments to public officials, has ended.

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In a statement, Scotland Yard described Elveden, which cost almost

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?15 million, as one of the most difficult and complex investigations

:16:50.:16:52.

US Republican presidential contender Donald Trump has faced a barrage

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of attacks from his two main rivals during a television debate.

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Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz questioned Mr Trump's

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They're fighting to stop Trump from running away

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with the nomination in the Super Tuesday state primaries.

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Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Ore, and news

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of a teenager's dream debut for Manchester United.

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We will round things up. We will talk a bit about an 18-year-old man

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called Marcus Rushford. He had a night to remember for Manchester

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United, he was not supposed to be playing in their Europa League

:17:47.:17:52.

match, before an injury to Anthony Martial got him parachuted in 20

:17:53.:17:55.

minutes before kick-off. He changed the game. It was poised at 1-1 on

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the night, with Manchester United heading out on away goals, before he

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scored twice on his debut. He becomes their youngest scorer in

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Europe. It ended up being 5-1 on the night, 6-3 on aggregate, but it

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could have been very different. We will tell you all you need to know

:18:21.:18:24.

about him. Tottenham also through, as are Liverpool. The draw for the

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last 16 is today at midday. There is a chance of an all English game. We

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will talk about the six Nations, that comes back tonight, France

:18:36.:18:39.

against Wales in Cardiff, and we will get boxing as well. A nice

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variety. We will leave Fifa to you. Three brothers who sexually abused

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teenage girls in Rotherham over a period of 15 years will be

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sentenced this morning. The Hussain brothers were convicted

:18:50.:18:51.

on Wednesday after victims came forward to tell of how they'd been

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raped, beaten and trafficked. This comes nearly 30 years

:18:55.:18:58.

after the abuse started. It's the first conviction

:18:59.:19:01.

since it was revealed that 1,400 children had been groomed

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and abused in the town. We can speak now to a victim,

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who was groomed by one of the men being sentenced today,

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Arshin Hussain. We're calling her Jessica

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to protect her identity. How do you feel head of the

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sentencing? It has been a long journey. I feel and chess, because

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it is my first time going to court since I gave evidence. They are all

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going to be there. I am feeling confident about the sentencing. Tell

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us about how old you were when you first met him and how things

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unfolded from there. I met him when I had just turned 14, I was in some

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local shops with friends, he approached me and my friend. I

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previously knew his brother. He seemed very charming, funny, kind.

:20:07.:20:12.

We spent two years together straightaway. He mentally, sexually

:20:13.:20:18.

and physically abused the. I was made pregnant twice by him. The

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violence did not start straightaway. It was later on. Did you have to

:20:26.:20:32.

have six with other people? What happened? No, he never trafficked me

:20:33.:20:41.

to other men. I was abused by him. You said that initially it was fine

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and then things changed, what happened? At first he came across

:20:47.:20:56.

and he spent so much time talking to me, getting to know me, always paint

:20:57.:21:02.

me, comments, telling me I was beautiful, the boys my age never did

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that. The attention was nice. I never saw myself as a victim until

:21:13.:21:16.

three years ago. I always thought he was my boyfriend. But then he

:21:17.:21:22.

started to become controlling, he was beating me on a daily basis, he

:21:23.:21:28.

completely isolated me from my family and friends and it got to the

:21:29.:21:35.

point where I felt I had nowhere else to run, he was the only person

:21:36.:21:42.

in my world. I only had him. Did you ever go to anyone in authority and

:21:43.:21:49.

try to get help? Yes, I made my first statement at 16, because I

:21:50.:21:54.

recognised the violence, I just did not recognise the sexual and mental

:21:55.:21:59.

abuse. At 15 I got put into foster care by my parents, they could not

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cope with what was going on, they thought I would be safer, but the

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authorities said to him, as long as he picks me up at the top of the

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street and I am home by 10pm, he can have access to me. It got worse when

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I was in care, because he could have contact at any time. Before, my

:22:19.:22:25.

family said that it was not OK. How did you feel? You had gone to

:22:26.:22:30.

somebody to help, you said what was happening, nothing changed. Well, it

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got worse. Did you feel you were not being listened to? I was never

:22:37.:22:42.

treated as a victim. I was treated as equal, I was called a mistress, a

:22:43.:22:50.

little criminal. When you have a majority of people treating queue

:22:51.:22:53.

that way, it makes it so much harder to recognise yourself as a victim.

:22:54.:22:58.

When I look back, the amount of failings from the police and the

:22:59.:23:03.

council, it is so shocking and so hard to put it into words. It is

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horrendous. We will let you go, I know you want to get into court for

:23:13.:23:15.

the sentencing. Thank you for talking to us. There is evidence

:23:16.:23:22.

that authorities at the time failed to do anything. It was not until a

:23:23.:23:25.

journalist at the Times heard of the abuse and run with the story that

:23:26.:23:27.

the police investigation was launched. We could speak to that

:23:28.:23:37.

journalist now. Talk us through when you first heard about the issues in

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Rotherham and how long it took for it to unfold and for the issue to be

:23:42.:23:49.

taken seriously. I started researching what we thought was a

:23:50.:23:54.

hidden pattern of groups of men around the north and the Midlands

:23:55.:23:59.

grooming and targeting young white teenage girls in the autumn of 2011

:24:00.:24:06.

we published our first story in January 2011. It accused the

:24:07.:24:11.

authorities across Britain of being involved in a conspiracy of silence

:24:12.:24:14.

about what was going on. Within a week, I had a call from a Rotherham

:24:15.:24:21.

grandfather who wanted to talk about what had happened to his

:24:22.:24:25.

granddaughter. For the Times newspaper it has been a long time

:24:26.:24:30.

coming. Not as long as it has been coming for some of the young girls

:24:31.:24:36.

who had their childhood stolen. It was when you took a call from the

:24:37.:24:44.

woman, the girl as she was, who we have just spoken to, who we called

:24:45.:24:49.

Jessica, you told her story in the paper and that was when a human

:24:50.:24:55.

voice was put to this story. Was that a changing point? It was

:24:56.:25:01.

completely the changing point. We had carried on telling the story of

:25:02.:25:06.

what the authorities knew and had failed to act upon. In September

:25:07.:25:12.

2012 a brave whistle-blower handed me more than 200 confidential

:25:13.:25:17.

documents. That laid bare a history in this town that for more than ten

:25:18.:25:21.

years groups of men had been able to target, groom, pimp and trafficked

:25:22.:25:27.

children. They had done so with virtual impunity and there was

:25:28.:25:29.

overwhelming evidence to show that social services and police knew the

:25:30.:25:35.

names of the girls, the men, their cars, where they were taking them,

:25:36.:25:39.

and they failed to do anything about it. Despite the weight of evidence,

:25:40.:25:45.

South Yorkshire Police remained in complete denial, they insisted they

:25:46.:25:48.

were leading the way in tackling such crimes nationally. The

:25:49.:25:53.

Rotherham Council social services, instead of working out what had gone

:25:54.:25:57.

wrong, they ordered an internal enquiry to find the source of the

:25:58.:26:01.

leak. That reaction was so staggering to us, we carried on, and

:26:02.:26:10.

in the summer of 2013 a message was left on my phone from a young woman

:26:11.:26:13.

who sounded very nervous, you have just heard her speak to you now, it

:26:14.:26:19.

was the telling of her story and the decision which was unprecedented in

:26:20.:26:24.

my 27 years as a journalist to name on our front page the man, to accuse

:26:25.:26:31.

him of being a serial abuser of children, multiple children, at a

:26:32.:26:35.

time when he had not even been questioned, let alone charged or

:26:36.:26:42.

convicted. It was that story, the brave young woman, Jessica, which

:26:43.:26:47.

tipped the balance, because on the same day she gave her first filmed

:26:48.:26:51.

interview to the police on the very first day of what became operation R

:26:52.:26:57.

two clover. It has resulted in the men being sentenced today. Within 12

:26:58.:27:02.

days of that article, Rotherham council is finally bowed to

:27:03.:27:08.

overwhelming public pressure and commissioned the independent enquiry

:27:09.:27:14.

that became the enquiry which created worldwide headlines 12

:27:15.:27:18.

months later, when it found that 1400 girls had been abused over 16

:27:19.:27:24.

years. Do you believe if you had not have been contacted in the first

:27:25.:27:28.

place by that grandfather who gave you a dossier, that this would not

:27:29.:27:38.

have emerged in the way that it has? I genuinely do believe that, because

:27:39.:27:42.

it was not as though there was nobody trying to raise the alarm ten

:27:43.:27:49.

or 15 years ago. There were very dedicated people, but not at the top

:27:50.:27:53.

of any of those organisations, who were writing reports, providing

:27:54.:27:56.

intelligence briefings, saying something needs to be done. Nobody

:27:57.:28:03.

wanted to listen. Finally, in desperation, when all else failed,

:28:04.:28:08.

they turned to a journalist. In some ways, I would argue that it is a

:28:09.:28:13.

good thing that we have a free press in this country and investigative

:28:14.:28:17.

journalism can uncover something like this. In another way, a chain

:28:18.:28:21.

is our country that it took a newspaper to show child protection

:28:22.:28:25.

authorities what they ought to have known all along. We will bring you

:28:26.:28:32.

details of the sentencing when it is announced in court.

:28:33.:28:38.

The former Conservative leader Michael Howard has announced he'll

:28:39.:28:40.

back the campaign to leave the European Union.

:28:41.:28:42.

Lord Howard helped David Cameron become leader in 2005.

:28:43.:28:44.

Meanwhile, the Chancellor George Osborne has warned a vote to leave

:28:45.:28:47.

would lead to a profound economic shock.

:28:48.:28:54.

Tell us what George Osbourne has been saying. He has been talking

:28:55.:29:00.

about the central claim of his side of the argument, the central case

:29:01.:29:06.

they make for remaining in the EU, which is in large part about the

:29:07.:29:12.

economy and risk. He is at the G20 in China, getting together with

:29:13.:29:15.

other finance ministers, discussing the state of the global economy and

:29:16.:29:20.

making the case that if we were to leave now, it would be a huge risk.

:29:21.:29:25.

While that is going on there, back at home we have Michael Howard, the

:29:26.:29:29.

man who used to run his party, who gave him a helpful promotion,

:29:30.:29:34.

setting him up to be the team that ran for the leadership in 2005, he

:29:35.:29:38.

hired David Cameron as a political aide. He has been explaining why he

:29:39.:29:43.

disagrees with David Cameron. Michael Howard, then the leader, and

:29:44.:29:49.

why he thinks Britain should vote to leave.

:29:50.:29:55.

If the leaders of Europe were actually faced with a British vote

:29:56.:30:00.

to leave, I think they would think again. We would be sorely missed if

:30:01.:30:04.

we did leave the European Union, and I think that, just as they have

:30:05.:30:09.

dinner for, they have form with Denmark and Ireland, I think there

:30:10.:30:13.

is a chance, not a certainty, that they would come and say, let's talk

:30:14.:30:15.

some more. That takes explaining, he is

:30:16.:30:22.

effectively arguing to vote to leave the EU because it might encourage

:30:23.:30:25.

other countries to come back to Britain with a better deal, then we

:30:26.:30:29.

could have another referendum and a better arrangement than the one

:30:30.:30:32.

David Cameron managed to negotiate. The Prime Minister was utterly

:30:33.:30:37.

withering about that point of view on Monday in the House of Commons.

:30:38.:30:40.

We thought he had killed it off as an argument, but I think Michael

:30:41.:30:44.

Howard has given it new life. George Osborne in China was making the

:30:45.:30:48.

opposite case, an argument about the economy and about risk, this is what

:30:49.:30:51.

he said. You have seen the value of the pound

:30:52.:30:56.

fall, it reminds us all that this is not some political parlour game, it

:30:57.:30:59.

is about people's jobs and their livelihoods and their living

:31:00.:31:04.

standards. In my judgment as Chancellor, leaving the EU would

:31:05.:31:08.

represent a profound economic shock for our country, for all of us, and

:31:09.:31:13.

I will do everything I can to prevent that. You could be forgiven

:31:14.:31:17.

for feeling slightly befuddled. It feels like there are headlines every

:31:18.:31:25.

morning are another rather Celia, old, politician coming out to tell

:31:26.:31:29.

us which way we should vote on Europe. You might wonder of the

:31:30.:31:32.

impact of that on the public, and you would be right. Michael Howard

:31:33.:31:37.

was my great impact will be significant, he is very respected by

:31:38.:31:41.

a lot of MPs, regarded not just as the man who helped to get Cameron

:31:42.:31:45.

his job but helps revive the party after being smashed to smithereens

:31:46.:31:48.

by Tony Blair time and time again. What none of them have any certainty

:31:49.:31:58.

about is how any of this debate is registering with the public, and it

:31:59.:32:01.

may be a long time, weeks, possibly months, before we get any feeling of

:32:02.:32:04.

that, before how we know whether any of this carefully choreographed

:32:05.:32:06.

arguing is affecting opinions at all.

:32:07.:32:12.

Thank you. Police in the American state of Kansas say four people

:32:13.:32:15.

including a gunman have been killed in a series of shootings. 14 people

:32:16.:32:20.

were injured in the attacks, which took place at several locations. The

:32:21.:32:25.

suspected attacker is suspected to be an employee of a lawn mower

:32:26.:32:28.

factory in Houston, where he was finally shot dead by police.

:32:29.:32:35.

The first report that we have had was that a man had been shot in the

:32:36.:32:39.

shoulder, driving a truck. Then there was another report at Meridian

:32:40.:32:49.

and Heston leg of somebody shot in the leg, then the reports of a

:32:50.:32:53.

shooting in a parking lot and then report to be shooting inside the

:32:54.:32:59.

factory. It is not the leaves to be linked to terrorism. Witnesses

:33:00.:33:04.

described scenes of panic. I saw people running, I assumed fire. I

:33:05.:33:09.

took a few steps and heard a pop, pop, I thought it was paint cans

:33:10.:33:13.

going up. Then there was more popping, I started running. The

:33:14.:33:18.

doors opened, people were screaming, coming out, saying, go to the front,

:33:19.:33:24.

then somebody said, he is out front, people started going to the back

:33:25.:33:28.

over here. They were yelling fire, we took off running. Everybody was

:33:29.:33:32.

coming outside, as soon as we got out there were gunshot and this one

:33:33.:33:38.

guy got shot in the leg and was walking, he was shot four times.

:33:39.:33:43.

Four other people I know got shot. It was horrible. One person I know

:33:44.:33:52.

died. It is just horrible. The guy had an AK-47 and a pistol, is what I

:33:53.:33:54.

heard. The worst day at work ever. The incredible tale of long lost

:33:55.:34:08.

sisters who spent 35 years looking for each other, only to discover

:34:09.:34:12.

they had been playing online bingo together for eight years.

:34:13.:34:14.

A brain drain of teachers is contributing to a shortage

:34:15.:34:17.

of teaching talent in the UK, that's the warning from

:34:18.:34:19.

England's Chief Inspector of Schools, Sir Michael Wilshaw.

:34:20.:34:21.

He says growing numbers are leaving to work abroad,

:34:22.:34:23.

and that more must be done to keep teachers working

:34:24.:34:26.

He explained why he thought this was becoming a problem.

:34:27.:34:29.

Because of the huge growth of independent schools abroad,

:34:30.:34:31.

sponsored and franchised by the big public schools over here,

:34:32.:34:34.

we have seen a rapid growth over the last few years.

:34:35.:34:36.

Two years ago there were just over 20 of the schools in places

:34:37.:34:40.

like Dubai and Abu Dhabi and places in the Far East,

:34:41.:34:43.

They are taking our trained teachers from over here, and the rapid growth

:34:44.:34:51.

that we are seeing has been built on the teachers that we are training

:34:52.:34:56.

here, at a great cost to our state system.

:34:57.:35:02.

And as I go about the country and talk to head teachers,

:35:03.:35:05.

and as Her Majesty's inspectors do, they have a real problem,

:35:06.:35:10.

particularly in secondary, in attracting high-quality people

:35:11.:35:13.

to teach subjects like physics and maths and other science subjects.

:35:14.:35:16.

I strongly suggested in my paper today that if the taxpayer is paying

:35:17.:35:22.

huge amounts of money for training teachers and for paying

:35:23.:35:27.

off their grants, ?20,000 to ?30,000 is what the Government

:35:28.:35:32.

is paying at the moment, there should be a moral

:35:33.:35:36.

commitment and, if necessary, a contractual commitment for these

:35:37.:35:38.

teachers to stay here for a period of time and teach in this country

:35:39.:35:42.

Ofsted says that last year more teachers left England to work

:35:43.:35:51.

overseas than actually qualified through post-graduate training.

:35:52.:35:56.

Let's speak now to Jessica Ferguson-Thomas.

:35:57.:35:58.

She's a primary-school teacher who moved to Abu Dhabi in 2013.

:35:59.:36:00.

She now works for a company called Teaching Abroad Direct.

:36:01.:36:07.

Why did you decide to move abroad to teach?

:36:08.:36:13.

It was the excessive workloads, working way into the evenings,

:36:14.:36:19.

hardly any time to spend with my family, so me and my husband, also a

:36:20.:36:24.

teacher, decided to look at what opportunities where available

:36:25.:36:28.

abroad. How long did it take you to make the decision? Well, we decided

:36:29.:36:35.

in March and we moved out in the August. It is the best thing we ever

:36:36.:36:42.

did. It doesn't sound like you agonised over it for a long time? We

:36:43.:36:48.

didn't. A sickly, we were both at a crunch point, we would either leave

:36:49.:36:52.

teaching in the UK or try to teach abroad. It was now or never. We are

:36:53.:36:57.

both pleased we did, we both love teaching, fundamentally, but it was

:36:58.:37:01.

the workload and the time pressure getting us down. Teachers always

:37:02.:37:07.

talk about their workload, was it not something you were aware of when

:37:08.:37:10.

you took the decision to train as a teacher and go into the profession?

:37:11.:37:15.

I was aware of it, I'm quite a hard-working person, but it is so

:37:16.:37:24.

much harder than you ever told, and it is the long days and the working

:37:25.:37:28.

into the evening, and you are not a teacher, you are an admin person, it

:37:29.:37:34.

is all the paperwork. It is a lot worse than you would ever imagine.

:37:35.:37:38.

Sir Michael Wilshaw has been saying that it is important to recognise

:37:39.:37:42.

the nobility of teaching and to talk up teaching as a profession that can

:37:43.:37:50.

transform lives. Is that something that you see, did you feel that you

:37:51.:37:54.

were going into a profession that would transform lives? Absolutely.

:37:55.:37:59.

That is one of the main reasons you become a teacher, you want to make a

:38:00.:38:03.

difference and you want to be that important person in a child peers

:38:04.:38:07.

life, but in England you get so swamped down with everything else

:38:08.:38:11.

that it is hard to remember that. Which is why abroad, when the

:38:12.:38:14.

pressure is a bit less and you have more of a home life yourself, you

:38:15.:38:19.

can really focus on the child. What about the suggestion that because

:38:20.:38:24.

the taxpayer is paying huge amounts of money to train teachers, there

:38:25.:38:28.

should be a moral and possibly even contractual commitment for teachers

:38:29.:38:35.

when they are qualified to stay and teach in this country. To be honest,

:38:36.:38:45.

I agree that if it is ?30,000, which physics teachers will be getting in

:38:46.:38:49.

September, they should stay. I got less than ?2000, I was travelling 80

:38:50.:38:54.

miles a day so it did not even cover the petrol, so after working in

:38:55.:39:00.

England for two years as a teacher, I felt I had paid my bit back. Tell

:39:01.:39:04.

us what it is like teaching in Abu Dhabi? It is very different, the

:39:05.:39:12.

pressure is less, the admin is less, you are allowed to be more creative

:39:13.:39:16.

and free as a teacher and you can focus more on your job. The children

:39:17.:39:20.

are more at the centre of it rather than a box ticking exercise, which

:39:21.:39:26.

in England it often is. It is a bit more relaxed, which makes it a lot

:39:27.:39:30.

easier to be a good and an outstanding teacher. Do you see

:39:31.:39:35.

lessons that could be drawn from that system and applied here? Yeah.

:39:36.:39:44.

To be honest, the main thing is to get rid of a lot of the paperwork,

:39:45.:39:49.

or take it from the teachers' responsibility. All the admin that

:39:50.:39:54.

goes with it, it does not need to be the teacher's responsibility. You

:39:55.:39:58.

could employ somebody else to do all the paperwork bets. In Abu Dhabi and

:39:59.:40:06.

other countries, the most important bit is teaching, which is what it

:40:07.:40:10.

should be, rather than all the bits that come in the evening. Could

:40:11.:40:14.

anything lure you back to being a teacher in this country again? No,

:40:15.:40:19.

he and my husbands have both said we don't plan to... Obviously things

:40:20.:40:23.

change, I don't want to say never, it is not in our plan. The world is

:40:24.:40:29.

a big place, as Michael Wilshaw said there are lots of schools, the world

:40:30.:40:33.

is our oyster. What do your friends and family think of you going? Do

:40:34.:40:37.

you know any of the teachers who have looked at your experience and

:40:38.:40:42.

said, maybe we will do the same? Absolutely, I have three or four

:40:43.:40:46.

friends that since they have moved out here, I have a friend living in

:40:47.:40:50.

Dubai who was my PGCE student in England, I also have two of my

:40:51.:40:55.

friends who used to live next door is living at yellow. It is a domino

:40:56.:41:01.

effect, they see on social media how happy we are, how much easier it is,

:41:02.:41:06.

they are coming. Unless England makes big changes to the education

:41:07.:41:17.

system, like I said, it is the admin and the paperwork, unless they can

:41:18.:41:21.

manage that it will carry on going. Thank you very much, Jessica. Carol

:41:22.:41:26.

has got on the chagrin touch on Twitter and has said Ofsted should

:41:27.:41:32.

join the dots, vacuous testing, draining morale, no wonder there is

:41:33.:41:36.

brain drain. Ted Cruz Marco Rubio have crashed --

:41:37.:41:41.

clashed with Donald Trump at the last debate for the Republican

:41:42.:41:47.

presidential candidate before super Tuesday.

:41:48.:41:50.

If he hadn't inherited $200 million, do you know where he would be?

:41:51.:42:01.

Selling watches! Cheering. That is so wrong. You are all talk and no

:42:02.:42:07.

action. This guy is a joke artist, this guy is a liar. You have a

:42:08.:42:12.

combination of factors. He can't do it for the obvious reason and he can

:42:13.:42:15.

do it because he doesn't know how to tell the truth. Other than that, I

:42:16.:42:22.

rest my case. Donald, you can get back on your mates. I am having fun,

:42:23.:42:31.

I had to say. -- Donald, you can get back on your meds. You are a basket

:42:32.:42:42.

case. Don't get nervous. Nothing about you makes anyone know this.

:42:43.:42:47.

That was entertaining. Still to come, is there increasing censorship

:42:48.:42:51.

on University campuses, and why are some universities banning debate? We

:42:52.:42:54.

have spoken to both sides. Let's get the latest weather

:42:55.:42:57.

update with Chris Fawkes. Good morning. We are talking

:42:58.:43:06.

tornadoes, there has been a big outbreak across the United States on

:43:07.:43:10.

Wednesday evening. We have some pictures of the damage they caused.

:43:11.:43:14.

They went across eight different states. What even is that? Is that a

:43:15.:43:21.

building or a train? And flooding as well, tornadoes reported across a

:43:22.:43:25.

different states. It is quite unusual for tornadoes this early in

:43:26.:43:28.

the season. You can get the ingredients at any time of the yet,

:43:29.:43:33.

but 65 reported on Wednesday evening with widespread damage. Do you know

:43:34.:43:37.

how they measured the wind speed? Has that a guess? I don't know! They

:43:38.:43:46.

look at the damage in the pictures and work-out, if the building has

:43:47.:43:50.

been flattened, that is the wind speed that would do that. The

:43:51.:43:54.

strongest tornadoes we got from this outbreak were in Florida, in

:43:55.:43:59.

Pensacola near the Florida Panhandle, they were estimated as EF

:44:00.:44:04.

three on the scale, which equates to 155 mph. That is why the buildings

:44:05.:44:10.

were threatened. So interesting, I had never thought about that.

:44:11.:44:17.

In the UK, you will be pleased to year there is nothing like that on

:44:18.:44:20.

the way this weekend. That we have a change in the winter that will bring

:44:21.:44:25.

cold easterly air Alloway. You will certainly notice the chill in the

:44:26.:44:28.

hour through the weekend. Those tornadoes are caused by this weather

:44:29.:44:34.

system. The storms are working across the East Coast into the

:44:35.:44:38.

Virginias. Even parts of New England had a tornado, pretty unusual that

:44:39.:44:44.

far north. Along the satellite pig we have a developing weather system,

:44:45.:44:51.

an area of low pressure. -- on the satellite picture. Much cloudier

:44:52.:44:55.

compared to the last few days. That said, the cloud will be thin in The

:44:56.:44:58.

Times to allow limited brighter spells. There could be rain to parts

:44:59.:45:05.

of western Cornwall, it looks like it will slide in through the

:45:06.:45:08.

afternoon. There will probably be showers around in Northern Ireland

:45:09.:45:12.

but, that aside, most of the weather for most of the day will be dry with

:45:13.:45:18.

a reasonable amount of brightness in Scotland, four or 5 degrees. Showers

:45:19.:45:22.

through Antrim and down, lots of dry weather for Northern Ireland. Most

:45:23.:45:27.

of the rate will stay on the border in Ireland. England and Wales

:45:28.:45:32.

staying cloudy, temperatures between five and eight. Sebastian in showers

:45:33.:45:36.

brushing the Sussex coastline, the general rain is getting into West

:45:37.:45:40.

Cornwall. Apart from that, lots of dry weather today.

:45:41.:45:43.

Overnight, patchy cloud for Northern Ireland, England and Wales, that

:45:44.:45:48.

cloud keeping temperatures around one degree Celsius in the

:45:49.:45:52.

countryside. Further north, with breaks in the cloud across Northern

:45:53.:45:55.

Ireland and Scotland, a frost is setting in. Where we see showers by

:45:56.:46:00.

day there is the risk of icy stretches developing on untreated

:46:01.:46:03.

roads and services. The low pressure is in charge over

:46:04.:46:08.

the weekend, easterly winds on Saturday, cold across southern

:46:09.:46:10.

parts, then this high pressure builds on across the north of the

:46:11.:46:13.

country, settling the winds down on Sunday. This is how it looks for the

:46:14.:46:19.

weekend, a cold wind blowing for southern parts of England and seven

:46:20.:46:22.

Wales, a mainly dry prospect through the weekend, but there was also the

:46:23.:46:26.

prospect of one wintry showers across eastern areas bought in by

:46:27.:46:32.

the cold winds. A chilly day for England and Wales,

:46:33.:46:36.

quite a bit of cloud around, white cloudy story for Northern Ireland,

:46:37.:46:39.

the best of the century and further north across northern and central

:46:40.:46:42.

areas of Scotland, looking at highs of around 5 degrees, 88 on the

:46:43.:46:47.

monitor in London but feeling much colder when you factor in that

:46:48.:46:52.

chilly easterly wind. Little changes on Sunday, a build-up of pressure

:46:53.:46:56.

sending the winds down into a more north-easterly direction, not

:46:57.:47:00.

exactly a one day, cloud around, if you like the sunshine, the best

:47:01.:47:03.

place to see that will be across parts of north-west England and

:47:04.:47:07.

western areas of Scotland. The weekend foremost, looking but pretty

:47:08.:47:08.

chilly. Hello, it's Friday February

:47:09.:47:11.

26th, it's 10am. I'm Joanna Gosling in for

:47:12.:47:12.

Victoria Derbyshire. Welcome to the programme

:47:13.:47:14.

if you've just joined us. Mired in scandal after scandal

:47:15.:47:16.

with allegations of bungs and bribery - football's world

:47:17.:47:19.

governing body Fifa will elect This is the scene live in Zurich at

:47:20.:47:36.

the Congress gets under way, we will take you there shortly.

:47:37.:47:38.

Tackling homophobia, racism and sexism on campus -

:47:39.:47:40.

why some universities are banning debate.

:47:41.:47:47.

I was banned from Manchester for having the wrong opinions as a gay

:47:48.:47:53.

man. I was supposed to talk about feminism having a problem with free

:47:54.:47:57.

speech, and both sides of the debate were banned, they did not want the

:47:58.:47:59.

discussion to be had. They were nicknamed the "terrible

:48:00.:48:01.

twins" by other players. We'll be speaking to the two

:48:02.:48:03.

long-lost sisters who were reunited online by their mutual

:48:04.:48:10.

love of bingo. Football's world governing body,

:48:11.:48:16.

Fifa, will elect a new president today to replace Sepp Blatter,

:48:17.:48:20.

who stood down amid a corruption More than 200 delegates

:48:21.:48:23.

will make their choice The two front runners

:48:24.:48:27.

are Sheikh Salman of the Asian Football Confederation

:48:28.:48:31.

and Uefa's Gianni Infantino. Former Tory leader Michael Howard

:48:32.:48:37.

is backing the campaign Lord Howard was previously

:48:38.:48:39.

a mentor to David Cameron, Meanwhile, Chancellor George Osborne

:48:40.:48:42.

has warned that leaving the EU A French court clears the way

:48:43.:48:47.

to demolish part of the migrant camp known as the Jungle,

:48:48.:48:54.

in the northern port of Calais. What is happening there? We

:48:55.:49:11.

understand there are authorities walking around the camp behind me,

:49:12.:49:15.

talking to the migrants, beginning the persuasion, trying to get them

:49:16.:49:21.

to leave so they can slowly disband this area. The authorities said they

:49:22.:49:28.

would not force anybody to leave. They would persuade them. The

:49:29.:49:35.

process has already begun. They have three options, to take up room in

:49:36.:49:38.

the housing containers in the northern section of the camp, there

:49:39.:49:42.

are 300 spaces left, they could take a bus to take them to some of the

:49:43.:49:49.

other purpose-built migrant containers across France, and the

:49:50.:49:55.

preferred option is for them to claim asylum in France. They prefer

:49:56.:49:59.

that because they don't want situations like this to be springing

:50:00.:50:02.

up in other areas across the North Coast. 95% of the migrants I have

:50:03.:50:10.

spoken to are still set on trying to reach Britain. They may go to

:50:11.:50:14.

Dunkirk or try to get into Belgium and attempt to get into Britain via

:50:15.:50:20.

a different avenue. Some might decide it is too difficult and

:50:21.:50:27.

possibly head home. Charities have not reacted kindly to the decision

:50:28.:50:31.

made yesterday, they said even though they said they would not

:50:32.:50:36.

force people to leave, leaving some of the main structures, the church

:50:37.:50:39.

and the school and the youth centre, even though they would not be taken

:50:40.:50:44.

down, it would segregate the community, with everybody having to

:50:45.:50:47.

live on this side of the campus, there would be a gap to those

:50:48.:50:51.

centres and it would destroy the sense of community. The decision not

:50:52.:50:55.

going down well with many of the people involved.

:50:56.:50:57.

Three brothers who subjected teenage girls to years of rape,

:50:58.:51:00.

violence and prostitution in Rotherham will be sentenced today.

:51:01.:51:02.

Arshid, Basharat and Bannaras Hussain will be sentenced

:51:03.:51:06.

It comes after a series of women, most now in their 30s,

:51:07.:51:11.

told a jury how they were sexually, physically and emotionally abused

:51:12.:51:15.

The Metropolitan Police has announced that Operation Elveden,

:51:16.:51:19.

which investigated allegations of illegal payments to public

:51:20.:51:22.

In a statement, Scotland Yard described Elveden, which cost almost

:51:23.:51:27.

?15 million, as one of the most difficult and complex investigations

:51:28.:51:31.

The US presidential contender Donald Trump has faced a barrage

:51:32.:51:36.

of attacks from his two main Republican rivals

:51:37.:51:39.

Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz questioned Mr Trump's

:51:40.:51:44.

They're fighting to stop the outspoken billionaire

:51:45.:51:48.

from surging ahead in the primary contests to select

:51:49.:51:50.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Ore and news

:51:51.:51:56.

of a teenager's dream debut for Manchester United.

:51:57.:52:04.

Good morning. Alan Hansen said you cannot win anything with kids, but

:52:05.:52:12.

if he needed reminding how wrong it was, he got it last night.

:52:13.:52:15.

Marcus Rashford arrived at Old Trafford last night just

:52:16.:52:17.

celebrating being on the bench for Manchester United's senior side

:52:18.:52:19.

But moments before kick-off, that turned into a place

:52:20.:52:22.

Replacing Frenchman Anthony Martial, who was injured in the warm-up,

:52:23.:52:26.

Rashford definitely made the most of his debut,

:52:27.:52:28.

with two goals to turn their Europa League tie against FC

:52:29.:52:31.

A 5-1 win on the night meant United cruised into the last 16,

:52:32.:52:35.

but it could've been very different were it not for the 18-year-old.

:52:36.:52:45.

I have said already a lot of times that is fantastic, but you have to

:52:46.:52:56.

be consistent. We are looking for consistent striker 's. There are not

:52:57.:53:05.

so many on this earth. But he made a great performance, I think.

:53:06.:53:07.

He became United's youngest European goal scorer at 18 years and 117

:53:08.:53:11.

days, beating Brian Kidd's 48-year record.

:53:12.:53:17.

He was top scorer in their under-18s side last season, scoring 13 goals

:53:18.:53:21.

Only the second player to score while making his debut

:53:22.:53:25.

Rashford joined Manchester United from youth side Fletcher Moss

:53:26.:53:35.

Danny Welbeck has earned 33 caps for England so far.

:53:36.:53:40.

Before him, Wes Brown, who spent 15 years at United and won

:53:41.:53:44.

And of the current crops of players, Tyler Blackett, Jesse Lingard

:53:45.:53:50.

and Cameron Borthwick-Jackson all began their footballing life

:53:51.:53:54.

in Didsbury at Fletcher Moss Rangers.

:53:55.:54:03.

Marcus attended our soccer school. We knew he had developed quite

:54:04.:54:15.

quickly. He was ahead of his years. Manchester United persuaded him that

:54:16.:54:18.

that would be the right club for him. Very talented youngster, even

:54:19.:54:21.

at six years of age. Well, United are one of three

:54:22.:54:23.

English clubs awaiting today's They were joined by Liverpool,

:54:24.:54:25.

who beat Augsburg, and Tottenham, convincing winners over Italian side

:54:26.:54:29.

Fiorentina after a 3-0 win The draw takes place

:54:30.:54:32.

at midday today. The Six Nations returns

:54:33.:54:39.

tonight after a week off. Wales and France meet in Cardiff

:54:40.:54:42.

with both sides unbeaten Wales, though, have won their last

:54:43.:54:44.

four matches against the French, including a famous 27-6 win,

:54:45.:54:49.

also on a Friday night, We have all been working hard to get

:54:50.:55:03.

the title back in Wales. Even though we have had a couple of years, we

:55:04.:55:08.

have realised it is difficult in the six Nations. We want to get another

:55:09.:55:15.

title under our belt. We still have a great chance this year.

:55:16.:55:21.

I would have loved to have told you about the tussle in Manchester

:55:22.:55:26.

between Scott Quigg and conference, but we haven't got time!

:55:27.:55:30.

It sounds like something we want to hear about, so maybe later!

:55:31.:55:34.

Join us on the BBC News channel later.

:55:35.:55:36.

Thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to the programme

:55:37.:55:40.

We're on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel until 11am.

:55:41.:55:45.

We will keep you across the latest stories. A reaction about a warning

:55:46.:55:52.

from the Chief Inspector of Schools in England, who says a brain drain

:55:53.:55:56.

of teachers is contributing to a shortage of teaching talent in the

:55:57.:56:01.

UK. Derek has e-mailed to say, it is wrong for teachers to learn their

:56:02.:56:05.

trade here at our expense and then go and work abroad. They should be

:56:06.:56:09.

tied to a contract that they cannot work elsewhere until they have done

:56:10.:56:14.

at least five years over here. Joan says, it seems like the teachers are

:56:15.:56:18.

getting the same deal as nurses, but a bit more pay. Holly says, Michael

:56:19.:56:26.

Wilshaw, rather than forcing teachers to stay, why not reflect on

:56:27.:56:31.

why they are leaving? If you want to add your voice to the debate, get in

:56:32.:56:33.

touch. You can get in touch in the usual

:56:34.:56:34.

ways, use the hashtag #VictoriaLive. If you text, you will be charged

:56:35.:56:37.

at the standard network rate. Wherever you are you can

:56:38.:56:40.

watch our programme online via the BBC News app or our website,

:56:41.:56:42.

bbc.co.uk/victoria. They're one of the biggest,

:56:43.:56:44.

richest and most important sporting bodies in the world, and today Fifa,

:56:45.:56:47.

who are effectively in charge of world football, will

:56:48.:56:50.

get a new president. Their motto is, for

:56:51.:56:53.

the game, for the world. But following allegation

:56:54.:56:56.

after allegation of bribery and corruption, their reputation has

:56:57.:56:58.

been severely tarnished. Elections take place

:56:59.:57:01.

today to find a new man, and it will be a man,

:57:02.:57:06.

to become the new President of Fifa. That man will replace Sepp Blatter,

:57:07.:57:10.

who stood down as the corruption crisis threatened to bring

:57:11.:57:14.

the organisation down. He and Michel Platini were banned

:57:15.:57:26.

over a payment between them. Voters will vote for his replacement and

:57:27.:57:31.

the possibility of reforms. This was the hotel wake-up call

:57:32.:57:38.

nobody at Fifa expected. Seven officials arrested in dawn

:57:39.:57:41.

raids at their hotel on the banks I thank you that you accepted me,

:57:42.:57:45.

that for the next four years I will be in command

:57:46.:58:23.

of this boat called Fifa, Today, in a dramatic

:58:24.:58:29.

statement from Zurich, TRANSLATION: While I have a mandate

:58:30.:58:51.

from the membership, I do not feel that I have a mandate

:58:52.:59:03.

from the entire world of football. Game over, Sepp Blatter finally

:59:04.:59:09.

shown the door after his 17-year The president kicked out

:59:10.:00:02.

of the sport along with the man who had been viewed as his likely

:00:03.:00:09.

successor, the Uefa chief Michel A run-through of the downfall of

:00:10.:00:47.

Sepp Blatter. Let's go live to see Rick where the voters taking place,

:00:48.:00:54.

Katie Gornall is there. -- let's go live to Zurich. How much pressure is

:00:55.:01:00.

there on Fifa for this to be a fresh start? They were given a reminder of

:01:01.:01:05.

how much pressure there is on Fifa in his conference just about half an

:01:06.:01:11.

hour road... Go, when the general secretary revealed their financial

:01:12.:01:17.

dealings and said they were $550 million down on projections for

:01:18.:01:22.

2015, eco-sponsors have deserted them in droves in the wake of the

:01:23.:01:27.

scandal which has dogged Fifa, and they have had to pay legal bills

:01:28.:01:31.

through the corruption allegations. This is what the package of reforms

:01:32.:01:37.

is designed to address. Soon the delegates will votes on that, we

:01:38.:01:43.

expected to go through with a 75% majority. It is to make Fifa more

:01:44.:01:48.

transparent and accountable, although some question weather they

:01:49.:01:51.

go far enough. Then we break for lunch and the delegates will come

:01:52.:01:55.

back into this conference hall on the outskirts of the city to decide

:01:56.:02:01.

who will be the face of the supposedly reformed Fifa. Five

:02:02.:02:04.

candidates were going to replace Sepp Blatter, two front runners,

:02:05.:02:11.

Gianni Infantino, formerly of Uefa, Europe 's choice, but against Sheikh

:02:12.:02:17.

Salman, head of the Asian federation. He is seen as the

:02:18.:02:21.

favourite but is controversial because he has been forced to deny

:02:22.:02:26.

allegations of human rights abuses in the build-up to this campaign and

:02:27.:02:29.

there would be comments from the wider footballing world if he was

:02:30.:02:33.

appointed stop the boat backwards takes place later this afternoon,

:02:34.:02:40.

207 eligible countries can vote, one country, one vote, silicone due with

:02:41.:02:45.

the Cayman Islands which has 57,000 people would have the same weight as

:02:46.:02:49.

a footballing superpower like Brazil with over 250 million people. But

:02:50.:02:53.

there are some who feel that just because there is a change at the top

:02:54.:02:58.

does not necessarily mean there will be a change of culture at Fifa.

:02:59.:03:00.

Thank you, Katie. Joining me now is Michael Hershman,

:03:01.:03:01.

a former member of Fifa's independent governance committee,

:03:02.:03:04.

which made a series of reform recommendations to Fifa back

:03:05.:03:06.

in 2013, and Emanuel Medeiros, former CEO of the European

:03:07.:03:08.

Professional Football Leagues, who's now boss at the European

:03:09.:03:11.

branch of the International Centre for Sport Security, an organisation

:03:12.:03:14.

set up to fight corruption in sport. Thank you both for joining us.

:03:15.:03:27.

Michael, do you see this as potentially a fresh start? You would

:03:28.:03:32.

hope so, but I think it will take more than passing a few reforms. I

:03:33.:03:38.

don't think the reforms go far enough, in fact. Leadership is

:03:39.:03:43.

important, but the change in culture will take many years, not only out

:03:44.:03:50.

of Zurich, Fifa headquarters, but the changing culture among the many

:03:51.:03:55.

federations the changing culture among the many

:03:56.:04:00.

do you see it, Emanuel? I share Michael 's view. Leadership is

:04:01.:04:04.

important, an organisation whose role is to govern world football

:04:05.:04:10.

cannot go without strong leadership, strategic vision, reforming spirit,

:04:11.:04:15.

but it is more than the man who leads the organisation. To have a

:04:16.:04:20.

new culture where good governance and integrity is priority number

:04:21.:04:25.

one, you need to tackle wider problems which are very complex,

:04:26.:04:29.

increasingly sophisticated, with a global dimension, often including

:04:30.:04:35.

criminal infiltration. You need a true cocktail of measures for that

:04:36.:04:39.

to have an effect of culture, a new attitude and mentality not just in

:04:40.:04:44.

football but the wider sport. That depends not only on Fifa all who

:04:45.:04:51.

will lead Fifa after today, in this defining moment in history for Fifa

:04:52.:04:56.

and football it also depends on the active constructive engagement of

:04:57.:05:01.

the whole sporting industry, including governments, including

:05:02.:05:03.

sponsors, which was mentioned a while ago, deserting Fifa after

:05:04.:05:09.

months of Fifa 's name being dragged through the mud, being at the lowest

:05:10.:05:17.

ever level. You need to bring an independent, global, neutral

:05:18.:05:20.

platform where other stakeholders can assist sports to overcome these

:05:21.:05:24.

unprecedented challenges. It is not on the horizon, is it? Do UC it

:05:25.:05:31.

happening? I see it happening, there are encouraging signs. We have

:05:32.:05:39.

facilitated for the first time ever the joint union forces between

:05:40.:05:43.

leaders in sport, government, international authorities, also from

:05:44.:05:49.

business, academia, NGOs like other cells. There is a true commitment to

:05:50.:05:56.

say, enough is enough, to use first -- best practice, to foster higher

:05:57.:06:03.

standards in terms of governance and integrity, to assist sports in

:06:04.:06:08.

tackling these problems. It is not just about Fifa, who is leading it

:06:09.:06:12.

or how it is governed, it involves other areas such as the transfer

:06:13.:06:18.

market and the financial transactions it allows, it involves

:06:19.:06:23.

club ownership, whose gaps, I think, are evident, it involves prevention

:06:24.:06:27.

of situations related to money-laundering and tax evasion,

:06:28.:06:31.

which are visible, not to mention other problems mentioned by the

:06:32.:06:33.

media. It requires an holistic global approach to solve global Rob

:06:34.:06:40.

Evans. Michael, do you agree that it goes much further than expecting

:06:41.:06:44.

Fifa to change and make the difference? -- global approach to so

:06:45.:06:53.

-- solve global problems. Yes, but we must know that the real

:06:54.:07:01.

stakeholders are the fans, Transparency International, and NGO

:07:02.:07:08.

out of Berlin, did a survey. These fans, by a total of about 70%, said

:07:09.:07:15.

they had lost faith in Fifa. Most disturbingly, 43% of the fund said

:07:16.:07:20.

they had lost the joy from football because of the scandal. It will take

:07:21.:07:25.

a lot to recover from that sort of fan abuse. Fifa has been about

:07:26.:07:32.

money, power, influence, it has not really been about what is best for

:07:33.:07:37.

the fans. Michael and Emanuel, thank you very much. Let us know what you

:07:38.:07:42.

think about that as well, all the usual ways of getting into edge. --

:07:43.:07:48.

getting in touch. Last month students

:07:49.:07:49.

at the London School of Economics set up a free speech society

:07:50.:07:51.

in response to what they say is increasing censorship

:07:52.:07:54.

on university campuses. Today in what they describe

:07:55.:07:55.

as an ironic move students are voting on whether

:07:56.:07:58.

the society should be banned. It's the latest in an on-going

:07:59.:08:00.

debate over free speech at universities -

:08:01.:08:02.

the use of safe spaces, The National Union of Students has

:08:03.:08:04.

told us it has to listen to people who find some opinions threatening -

:08:05.:08:09.

and some students argue that safe spaces are in place to make sure

:08:10.:08:11.

all students have a voice. Catrin Nye has been talking to those

:08:12.:08:14.

on both sides of the debate. Universities are places of debate,

:08:15.:08:19.

challenging ideas, and expansion But they are also places

:08:20.:08:21.

where minorities can feel safe. Not judged in a way

:08:22.:08:30.

they may be elsewhere. These two ideals are causing

:08:31.:08:39.

conflict on campus In the form of safe spaces, no platforming,

:08:40.:08:44.

and accusations of censorship. Today, lots of free speech advocates

:08:45.:08:53.

and some of their opponents have come together for an event called

:08:54.:09:00.

the New Intolerance on campus. People have conflated casual sexual

:09:01.:09:09.

assault and racist abuse directed towards individuals

:09:10.:09:13.

with expressions of ideals. What happened in Manchester

:09:14.:09:17.

with Germaine Greer, it was hypothetically

:09:18.:09:19.

that her presence on campus Depending on who you are,

:09:20.:09:21.

what is going on on university campuses at the moment

:09:22.:09:29.

looks very different. Students are increasingly "no

:09:30.:09:32.

platforming" controversial speakers and erecting safe spaces

:09:33.:09:34.

in which you cannot They are even banning

:09:35.:09:35.

newspapers, lads magazines, Mexican hats, pop songs,

:09:36.:09:50.

anything that these sensitive creatures find offensive,

:09:51.:09:52.

they are banning. So safe spaces are spaces

:09:53.:09:59.

where students and all people can come together, to have discussion

:10:00.:10:03.

and debate without feeling In some cases whole unions may be

:10:04.:10:05.

a designated safe space. Not necessarily but there would be

:10:06.:10:13.

safe space policies. To my mind, it is a censorious

:10:14.:10:19.

space, it forbids you from expressing discriminatory,

:10:20.:10:21.

homophobic, racist ideas, Surely people should not be

:10:22.:10:23.

expressing homophobic Some people oppose gay marriage,

:10:24.:10:32.

from a religious perspective, and student unions would describe

:10:33.:10:37.

that as "homophobic speech", which is not allowed

:10:38.:10:40.

inside a safe space. That to me is an example

:10:41.:10:43.

explicit censorship. LGBTQIA students do not need to hear

:10:44.:10:49.

in their union homophobic views Jewish students do not need to hear

:10:50.:10:52.

anti-Semitic views to understand This is about having the debate

:10:53.:10:58.

in a way which allows them to feel The National Union of Students has

:10:59.:11:03.

an official no platform list. They have told us they have

:11:04.:11:09.

to listen to students who find some On top of that list,

:11:10.:11:12.

individual unions and student groups Some recent decisions have

:11:13.:11:18.

caused a stir. Feminist writer Julie Bendall

:11:19.:11:25.

was barred from speaking at the University of Manchester's

:11:26.:11:28.

union, they said her views on trans people would incite hatred

:11:29.:11:31.

and breach their safe space policy. I was banned from Manchester

:11:32.:11:36.

for having the wrong opinions as a gay man,

:11:37.:11:42.

I think... I was supposed to talk about "does

:11:43.:11:44.

feminism have a problem Both sides of the debate

:11:45.:11:47.

were banned, they did not even want An NUS rep refused to share

:11:48.:11:51.

a platform with gay rights activist Peter Tatchell,

:11:52.:11:56.

a decision that is still An ex-Muslim and vocal critic

:11:57.:11:58.

of Islam, this is a talk At Goldsmiths I was allowed to speak

:11:59.:12:11.

but the Islamic Society tried to intimidate the audience,

:12:12.:12:18.

tried to disrupt the meeting. Do you understand the need

:12:19.:12:26.

for a safe space policy? As somebody who is a minority

:12:27.:12:30.

within a minority, an ex-Muslim and a migrant, I understand very

:12:31.:12:32.

well the concept of safe spaces. If anything, we are the ones

:12:33.:12:37.

who are unsafe and the Islamists who were threatening us

:12:38.:12:40.

for criticising us for questioning In an atmosphere where Islamophobia

:12:41.:12:42.

is a problem, is it not understandable that people do not

:12:43.:12:48.

want someone on a stage, in a place where they want to feel

:12:49.:12:51.

safe, criticising Islam in the way You have to make a distinction

:12:52.:12:54.

between attacking people Throughout history, criticism

:12:55.:12:58.

of religion has been an integral In protest at what he sees as campus

:12:59.:13:07.

censorship, this student, Charlie Parker, has set up a free

:13:08.:13:24.

speech society at LSE, some students are currently trying

:13:25.:13:27.

to ban it. Hello, are you all right,

:13:28.:13:32.

how are you doing. The rugby team you were suspended

:13:33.:13:37.

from playing for handing out sexist leaflets, it is one of a number

:13:38.:13:39.

of acts that he sees as a crackdown There was a banning of T-shirts,

:13:40.:13:43.

a couple of years ago, which depicted Jesus and Muhammad,

:13:44.:13:49.

it is ludicrous to think that students are being told

:13:50.:13:52.

what they can and cannot wear. Free speech has always been

:13:53.:13:57.

there to help and protect minorities, if you look at gay

:13:58.:14:01.

rights movements, civil rights movements, feminism,

:14:02.:14:04.

all the great social progression, made possible through the use

:14:05.:14:06.

of freedom of expression. Did you not think the best way

:14:07.:14:15.

to tackle homophobia and sexism on campus would be to tackle it

:14:16.:14:18.

with debate and discussion as opposed to banning it

:14:19.:14:21.

and avoiding it? No; I am a Jew, I believe that

:14:22.:14:24.

if somebody puts forward Nazi views and propaganda they

:14:25.:14:28.

should be banned. A lot of the time, these horrible

:14:29.:14:32.

views are often the things that trigger debate

:14:33.:14:51.

which are so important. If that is able to happen,

:14:52.:14:52.

the problem is, sometimes they do not necessarily

:14:53.:14:55.

listen to the criticism. What is your opinion,

:14:56.:14:57.

do you understand why We are not trying to limit free

:14:58.:14:58.

speech, it is a specific space set up so that you can have discussions

:14:59.:15:03.

that do not get derailed by people trying to put forward their own

:15:04.:15:06.

agenda or saying things that can be If somebody says, don't say that

:15:07.:15:09.

because it is hateful or offensive, I do not feel my free

:15:10.:15:16.

speech is taken away, Save space in theory

:15:17.:15:19.

is important but in practice, it can be just a space where people

:15:20.:15:30.

come and simply agree with each other, and it can feel intimidating

:15:31.:15:34.

in ways if you don't know the lingo and you do not understand the kind

:15:35.:15:37.

of rhetoric that goes The problem that free speech has

:15:38.:15:40.

is when policies like safe spaces begin to use the censorship

:15:41.:15:44.

as a means of protecting minorities. When a speaker is not able

:15:45.:15:46.

to speak at a university, as has been the case, that does not

:15:47.:15:51.

mean they cannot speak. Of course they can,

:15:52.:15:54.

but it is the principle Suddenly they begin to dictate

:15:55.:16:05.

what all students can and cannot say, because safe spaces demand

:16:06.:16:09.

tolerance, and in itself, it seems like a very

:16:10.:16:12.

intolerant thing. Last year, Tommy Robinson, the head

:16:13.:16:19.

of the English Defence League, was interviewed by

:16:20.:16:22.

the student newspaper. The year before that,

:16:23.:16:26.

George Galloway did a talk Many believe him to

:16:27.:16:28.

be a rape apologist. Freedom of expression

:16:29.:16:32.

here is thriving. We will let any become

:16:33.:16:37.

here and speak. He thinks safe spaces

:16:38.:16:40.

are needed in some cases, to allow minority

:16:41.:16:42.

voices to be heard. Public institutions in the UK have

:16:43.:16:44.

been dominated by white straight men for a long time, whether

:16:45.:16:48.

that is politics, media, the judiciary, in the UK we have 12

:16:49.:16:52.

Supreme Court judges, We have some problems when it comes

:16:53.:16:56.

to structural barriers If women and if ethnic minority

:16:57.:17:01.

students on campuses want to self organise to help to overcome some

:17:02.:17:11.

of the barriers they face, Can you see the need for a place,

:17:12.:17:14.

a safe space, where anyone from any background can feel comfortable

:17:15.:17:22.

and confident to express their views, when there may not have

:17:23.:17:26.

been able to before? They say that because black students

:17:27.:17:28.

have not had the same capacity to express themselves

:17:29.:17:42.

in others that might have, therefore we must mirror that

:17:43.:17:44.

discrepancy on campus, by creating a safe space

:17:45.:17:46.

especially for them, I get that question all of the time,

:17:47.:17:48.

I am a white man, I refuse to judge When we talk about some of this,

:17:49.:17:55.

it is interesting to see people who talk about not being able

:17:56.:17:59.

to have their voices heard, they're very quickly able

:18:00.:18:05.

to have their voices heard everywhere, it is simply not

:18:06.:18:07.

the case that they are banned or censored, it is whether they are

:18:08.:18:10.

invited to a student Or uninvited because of protest,

:18:11.:18:12.

which has happened. In some cases, yes, and this

:18:13.:18:17.

is about student unions, Do you have the right to decide

:18:18.:18:20.

what is happening at a place where you are at a long time ago

:18:21.:18:32.

and may have changed and improved? I do, one of the things I did

:18:33.:18:42.

campaign against no platform. no platform was only used

:18:43.:18:46.

against racists and Zionists. We argued that if you censored those

:18:47.:18:53.

groups, there is nothing to stop the censorious logic from spreading

:18:54.:18:56.

and encapsulating more and more people, that is exactly

:18:57.:18:58.

what happened, throughout the 1990s, religious fundamentalists were no

:18:59.:19:01.

platformed, in some universities banned Eminem, on the basis

:19:02.:19:04.

that his music is homophobic. Once you accept the idea that some

:19:05.:19:06.

thoughts are just too dangerous to have in public life,

:19:07.:19:10.

then there is nothing to stop other There are elements of my education

:19:11.:19:13.

where I have felt uncomfortable. Most of us would be able to draw

:19:14.:19:24.

a distinction between times when we felt uncomfortable and times

:19:25.:19:29.

when we felt threatened. Some opinions are

:19:30.:19:32.

threatening for people. And we have to be able to listen

:19:33.:19:39.

to that view as well. Still to come before 11am.The

:19:40.:19:48.

incredible tale of long-lost sisters who spent 35 years looking for each

:19:49.:19:53.

other only to discover they'd been playing online bingo

:19:54.:19:59.

together for eight years. I will talk to them in a few

:20:00.:20:08.

moments. Fifa delegates have passed a package

:20:09.:20:24.

of reforms to fight against corruption.

:20:25.:20:25.

Football's world governing body Fifa will elect a new president today

:20:26.:20:27.

to replace Sepp Blatter, who stood down last year

:20:28.:20:30.

More than 200 delegates will make their choice

:20:31.:20:33.

The two front runners are Sheikh Salman of

:20:34.:20:35.

the Asia Football Confederation and Uefa's Gianni Infantino.

:20:36.:20:37.

Former Tory leader Michael Howard is backing the campaign

:20:38.:20:39.

Lord Howard was previously a mentor to David Cameron,

:20:40.:20:43.

Meanwhile, Chancellor George Osborne has warned that leaving the EU

:20:44.:20:48.

would cause a profound economic shock.

:20:49.:20:57.

Three brothers who subjected teenage girls to rate, violence and teenage

:20:58.:21:08.

prosecution -- prostitution in Rotherham will be sentenced today

:21:09.:21:12.

after a series of women, most now in their 30s, told a jury how they were

:21:13.:21:16.

sexually, physically and emotionally abused during their early teens.

:21:17.:21:20.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Ore

:21:21.:21:23.

Let's bring you up to date with the sporting stories,

:21:24.:21:26.

18-year-old Marcus Rashford had a Manchester United debut

:21:27.:21:29.

to remember, scoring twice in the Europa League against FC

:21:30.:21:32.

Mitdjtylland as United won 5-1 on the night to progress to the last

:21:33.:21:35.

Tottenham's victory over Fiorentina saw them through to the next round,

:21:36.:21:47.

they are joined in the draw by Manchester United and Liverpool, who

:21:48.:21:54.

beat Augsburg. Wales's unbeaten six Nations record will come under real

:21:55.:21:58.

threat to night from France. They won their two opening matches. They

:21:59.:22:02.

meet in Cardiff at the championship returned from a week off. Italy

:22:03.:22:07.

against Scotland and England against Ireland tomorrow.

:22:08.:22:14.

I promised squabbling boxes. Scott Quigg and Carl Frampton meet

:22:15.:22:18.

tomorrow. Carl Frampton is not happy that Scott Quigg will have the best

:22:19.:22:21.

dressing room at the Manchester Arena.

:22:22.:22:26.

This is my arena, I and the home fighter, I want the home dressing

:22:27.:22:36.

room. That is it. It is the star of the show's dressing room. It is my

:22:37.:22:44.

dressing room. This is embarrassing. He could not even sell his ticket.

:22:45.:22:52.

That is nonsense, you know it is. Let's hope they can take their

:22:53.:22:53.

handbags into the ring! The UK hasn't had much luck recently

:22:54.:22:55.

when it comes to the Eurovision Song In fact, it's nearly 20 years

:22:56.:22:58.

since the UK last won the contest, But could our luck

:22:59.:23:03.

be about to change? This year there are big

:23:04.:23:06.

changes to the jury system, meaning each country

:23:07.:23:08.

will deliver their jury vote and all the public votes will be

:23:09.:23:10.

merged into the result. Organisers say it'll make

:23:11.:23:13.

the competition fairer and more So who will be representing

:23:14.:23:15.

the UK this year? Mel Giedroyc will host a special

:23:16.:23:20.

programme on BBC Four later tonight giving you the chance to pick

:23:21.:23:26.

the act that will represent us. Let's have a look at some

:23:27.:23:29.

of those in the running. # When you go, I can't

:23:30.:23:32.

see in the dark. # You shine a little light,

:23:33.:23:55.

shine a little light on me. # Hold on to me and

:23:56.:24:02.

I'll hold on to you. # I won't let go, I won't

:24:03.:24:15.

let go until tomorrow. # You're not alone,

:24:16.:24:20.

we're in this together. # All that you want

:24:21.:24:23.

is ready forever. So is there a winner

:24:24.:24:26.

among that group? Well, let's talk this

:24:27.:24:53.

and the new judging rules with two people that know better than most

:24:54.:24:56.

what it's like to be part - Candice McKenzie, was in the UK

:24:57.:24:59.

Eurovision jury in 2014, and Lee Ryan, from the boy band

:25:00.:25:03.

Blue, who came 11th back in 2011 You said you like to, but you are

:25:04.:25:18.

not allowed to say it on there, because this is like a proper

:25:19.:25:23.

election, you cannot influence people watching, everybody decides

:25:24.:25:27.

to nine. What do you think about the fact that the public can vote? It is

:25:28.:25:37.

good. It is amazing that England keeps trying. We have to keep

:25:38.:25:46.

trying! The UK have produced some amazing pop acts that have

:25:47.:25:49.

influenced music around the world and still continues to do so. Your

:25:50.:25:54.

revision is the biggest song composition in the world, we should

:25:55.:25:59.

be up there, and it is a shame we are not. Is there an obvious for

:26:00.:26:06.

Miller that we are missing? Either that or nobody likes up -- as in

:26:07.:26:16.

Europe! I am joking! There is a structure that goes into it.

:26:17.:26:25.

Hopefully, one of these songs will do it, fingers crossed. You know

:26:26.:26:29.

about the internal workings, because you were one of the juror 's, tell

:26:30.:26:34.

us how that worked. How did you get picked? I was sent an e-mail, asking

:26:35.:26:43.

me if I would like to be part of it, in 2014. I thought it was a great

:26:44.:26:46.

opportunity. Because you have a particular background? Or as a

:26:47.:26:52.

representative member of the public? I have worked in the music industry

:26:53.:26:59.

for almost 18 years. You got the e-mail, presumably it was quite

:27:00.:27:06.

exciting? How did it work? We had to go to the BBC centre in White city.

:27:07.:27:11.

We judged the performances, the dress rehearsals, the semifinal

:27:12.:27:19.

twice, that was on a Tuesday and Thursday, and our votes got

:27:20.:27:25.

carry-forward. We did not vote in the final, we just watched it like

:27:26.:27:29.

everybody else. The weighting of your vote is interesting. When the

:27:30.:27:33.

public vote came through for you, you were in fifth place. Yes, and

:27:34.:27:42.

the jury voted us at 22. So we finished at 11. That year, the jury

:27:43.:27:51.

had just come in. We would have been number five in the system. This

:27:52.:28:02.

could influence the public to vote when they see at first, I don't know

:28:03.:28:06.

exactly how they will do it. Will it be like Strickler come dancing when

:28:07.:28:13.

you hold up the card? Just looking at you there, your moment at

:28:14.:28:21.

Eurovision... We cannot hear it, I was hoping we could. What did you

:28:22.:28:30.

think about more people power from now on, hopefully? It is good, and

:28:31.:28:39.

the new way of voting will encourage people to watch it to the end,

:28:40.:28:44.

because what I find is, with the old system, you can work out who is

:28:45.:28:47.

going to win by a certain point, because you can see how many points

:28:48.:28:53.

other countries are getting, and once a country has quite a high

:28:54.:28:56.

school, you can tell who will win, whereas with this way, the results

:28:57.:29:06.

from the public will be shown with the country that has the least score

:29:07.:29:09.

first, and you will only find out who the overall winner is at the

:29:10.:29:14.

end, so you have to stay to the end to find out who will win. What was

:29:15.:29:17.

it like when you were waiting to see how the voting pans out? It was like

:29:18.:29:24.

a blur, a dream. It is such a massive competition. We did the

:29:25.:29:31.

competition and some people said we should not have done it, whether it

:29:32.:29:38.

was good for us or not. It was good to represent our country, but we

:29:39.:29:43.

were so nervous. At the same time, so much good came out of it, so much

:29:44.:29:48.

great coverage. Whoever represents us this year, it will be amazing for

:29:49.:29:55.

their careers and they will have an amazing time no matter where they

:29:56.:29:56.

come. Let's hope this is our moment! And you can listen to the songs

:29:57.:30:03.

on the shortlist again and find out more about the six acts on our

:30:04.:30:06.

website, bbc.co.uk/eurovision. And the programme Eurovision:

:30:07.:30:08.

You Decide is on BBC Four this That is when you get to have your

:30:09.:30:11.

say. England's Chief Inspector of Schools

:30:12.:30:20.

says a "brain drain" of teachers is leading to a shortage

:30:21.:30:23.

of talent in the UK. Sir Michael Wilshaw says growing

:30:24.:30:25.

numbers of teachers are leaving to work abroad - and that more must

:30:26.:30:27.

be done to keep them working You've been getting

:30:28.:30:31.

in touch this morning. Tweet from Craig, "Teachers

:30:32.:30:35.

and doctors should be contracted to repay all costs for training

:30:36.:30:37.

before they leave the UK." Anonymous text, "Need to look at why

:30:38.:30:42.

so many teachers are moving abroad and work hard to increase

:30:43.:30:45.

the retention rate rather than tying The exodus is a symptom

:30:46.:30:48.

of an unrealistic workload, improve that and you won't have

:30:49.:30:53.

to force us to stay!" Well, earlier I spoke

:30:54.:30:57.

to Jessica Ferguson-Thomas, she's a primary school teacher

:30:58.:30:59.

who moved to Abu Dhabi in 2013. I asked her why she made

:31:00.:31:02.

the decision to move. It was the excessive workloads,

:31:03.:31:07.

working way into the evenings, hardly any time to spend

:31:08.:31:11.

with my family, so me and my husband, who is also

:31:12.:31:14.

a teacher, decided to look at what opportunities

:31:15.:31:16.

where available abroad. How long did it take

:31:17.:31:20.

you to make the decision? Well, we decided in March

:31:21.:31:24.

and we moved out in the August. It doesn't sound like you agonised

:31:25.:31:26.

over it for a long time? Basically, we were both at a crunch

:31:27.:31:37.

point, we would either leave teaching in the UK or

:31:38.:31:43.

try to teach abroad. We are both pleased we did,

:31:44.:31:47.

we both love teaching, fundamentally, but it was

:31:48.:31:51.

the workload and the time pressure was it not something you were aware

:31:52.:31:54.

of when you took the decision to train as a teacher and go

:31:55.:32:02.

into the profession? I was aware of it, I'm quite

:32:03.:32:08.

a hard-working person, but it is so much harder

:32:09.:32:10.

than you're ever told, and it is the long days and then

:32:11.:32:18.

working into the evening, and you are not a teacher,

:32:19.:32:21.

you are an admin person, It is a lot worse than

:32:22.:32:25.

you would ever imagine. Sir Michael Wilshaw has been saying

:32:26.:32:31.

that it is important to recognise the nobility of teaching and to talk

:32:32.:32:34.

up teaching as a profession that Is that something that you see,

:32:35.:32:41.

did you feel that you were going into a profession that

:32:42.:32:46.

would transform lives? That is one of the main reasons

:32:47.:32:49.

you become a teacher, you want to make a difference

:32:50.:32:54.

and you want to be that important person in a child's life,

:32:55.:32:57.

but in England you get so swamped down with everything else

:32:58.:33:00.

that it is hard to remember that. Which is why abroad,

:33:01.:33:05.

when the pressure is a bit less and you have more of a home life

:33:06.:33:07.

yourself, you can really focus What about the suggestion that

:33:08.:33:11.

because the taxpayer is paying huge amounts of money to train teachers,

:33:12.:33:17.

there should be a moral and possibly even contractual commitment

:33:18.:33:20.

for teachers when they are qualified To be honest, I agree

:33:21.:33:23.

that if it is ?30,000, which physics teachers will be

:33:24.:33:34.

getting in September, I got less than ?2000,

:33:35.:33:36.

I was travelling 80 miles a day to get to the school

:33:37.:33:43.

where I was placed so it did not even cover the petrol,

:33:44.:33:47.

so after working in England for two years as a teacher,I felt

:33:48.:33:49.

I had paid my bit back. Let us know your thoughts on

:33:50.:34:05.

teachers going abroad. But now an astonishing story for you. It is

:34:06.:34:09.

about Elaine Walker and Jackie Green. They were separated when the

:34:10.:34:15.

lane was adopted when she was weeks old. For 35 years, Elaine, who lives

:34:16.:34:21.

in Cleadon, search for Jackie, who lives in Croydon, without any

:34:22.:34:25.

success. Jackie did not know Elaine existed. An incredible coincidence

:34:26.:34:29.

brought them together, it turns out they had been framed Democrat

:34:30.:34:35.

friends online without even knowing it. It is an amazing story.

:34:36.:34:40.

Elaine, you knew that Jackie was out there? I knew she was out there, she

:34:41.:34:46.

didn't know about me. I had in 35 years of searching and just kept

:34:47.:34:51.

hitting dead ends and dead ends. What did you know about Jackie? All

:34:52.:34:56.

I knew was her Christian name and her maiden name, but there were gaps

:34:57.:35:02.

in the records when we tried searching. I couldn't find her. I

:35:03.:35:07.

knew she had been married but didn't know her married name, things like

:35:08.:35:12.

that. As I say, I hate to dead ends, I was coming up against brick wall

:35:13.:35:16.

after brick wall. -- I hit dead ends. Until last year, an elder

:35:17.:35:22.

brother of ours died. He died interstate. One of these are hunter

:35:23.:35:32.

companies got in touch with us and accidentally let slip Jackie 's

:35:33.:35:36.

surname. And amazingly, even at that point, you didn't twig that Jackie,

:35:37.:35:43.

who you knew online, effectively, someone you had... You had

:35:44.:35:47.

nicknames, you had been playing bingo online for eight years and you

:35:48.:35:50.

did not know each other's real names? I was Dukie11. I was

:35:51.:35:57.

Whiskey666. We will not go into those! Whiskey was the name of a dog

:35:58.:36:03.

that I owned. I took his name and added mine and birds. -- my numbers.

:36:04.:36:10.

So you knew each other under those pseudonyms. We were good online

:36:11.:36:17.

friends, that was it. It was the banter that was going backwards and

:36:18.:36:21.

forwards between us. Tell us about that. You were called the terrible

:36:22.:36:28.

twins? One of the chat managers called us the terrible twins. We

:36:29.:36:33.

used to keep her awake at work. She said she had to take a box of

:36:34.:36:37.

tissues in because she would be crying, not with sadness but with

:36:38.:36:41.

laughter, at the two thus bantering away, joking online. Nobody could

:36:42.:36:48.

get a word in edgeways, none of the other players. Lee and my sister, we

:36:49.:36:53.

were just going hammer and tongs at one another -- me and my sister.

:36:54.:36:57.

Device it is amazing that you were sisters and had no clue, but you had

:36:58.:37:04.

that connection online. What was it? I used to tell Jackie about my day

:37:05.:37:09.

at work and curse my boss and things like that. And I used to make a joke

:37:10.:37:15.

of it. And that would start it up. Till it was like a natural

:37:16.:37:20.

connection between you? It made me feel better, I would go home from

:37:21.:37:26.

work, I lived alone. I would go online and I would have a lot of

:37:27.:37:31.

banter with Jackie. Amazing. So take us back to that moment when you had

:37:32.:37:35.

been searching for Jackie, you didn't know the surname, then the

:37:36.:37:40.

surname was given by accident. I thought, where do I start? I

:37:41.:37:45.

suddenly thought, one of my favourite occupations now, I went on

:37:46.:37:51.

Facebook. And I searched for Jacqueline Green, there were

:37:52.:37:53.

thousands and thousands, different spellings. I didn't know whether it

:37:54.:37:58.

was green with an E on the end. But I narrowed it down to London. All

:37:59.:38:07.

the south. -- or the south. Eventually after about a week, I

:38:08.:38:12.

clicked on this one 's profile, and I looked at her and I went, she has

:38:13.:38:19.

got my eyes, she has got the face. I could see resemblances. So I sent

:38:20.:38:27.

her a message should and it said, hello, Jackie, you don't know me,

:38:28.:38:33.

but... Where you convinced? Yes, when I saw her face I just said,

:38:34.:38:39.

hello, Jackie, strange message but was your man, and I gave the full

:38:40.:38:47.

name, and I said because, if so, I am your sister -- was your mum. I

:38:48.:38:51.

gave my birth name and a lot of details. I got a message back at --

:38:52.:39:03.

a little while later, saying, hello, sis. Jackie, what did you think, you

:39:04.:39:09.

did not know you had a sister? I was thinking, how did she know my mum

:39:10.:39:13.

and dad's name? I am reading the story and I am thinking, hang on,

:39:14.:39:20.

something is clicking here. I message to her back and I went,

:39:21.:39:27.

hello, how do you know me? Which is natural. And she went, bingo. I

:39:28.:39:39.

went, I only played on one site, bingo port. She went, so did I, what

:39:40.:39:47.

is your player name. When I told her she went, I am your terrible twin,

:39:48.:39:52.

Dukie11. I sent her a message back, this is my landline number, this is

:39:53.:39:56.

my mobile number, give me a ring. She did. We were on the phone for

:39:57.:40:01.

three hours, and that was bit -- that was it. You have been

:40:02.:40:06.

inseparable since? We are on the phone every week. We are only

:40:07.:40:11.

separated by distance. She phones me every week because of my illness, I

:40:12.:40:16.

am always in and out of hospital with my illness. So she rings me

:40:17.:40:20.

every week just to make sure I am OK. And when she is not so good it

:40:21.:40:26.

is two or three times a week. There is another sister? In between the

:40:27.:40:32.

two others. And you want to find her? She was adopted at the same

:40:33.:40:41.

time as me. I have known about her all my life. My adoptive parents

:40:42.:40:46.

actually met her when they picked me up. I have never been able... What

:40:47.:40:55.

do you know? She is called Wendy, her last known address was in

:40:56.:41:00.

Scotland, she has a son and she was born in February 19 55. That is it.

:41:01.:41:06.

She was adopted. Obviously her name was changed, but her Christian name

:41:07.:41:10.

was kept the same, because she was older and Ansa ring to Wendy, so her

:41:11.:41:15.

adoptive parents kept her Christian name the same -- she was older and

:41:16.:41:20.

answering to Wendy. They changed her surname. That is all I know. It

:41:21.:41:25.

would be nice to complete the family. We would have to be the

:41:26.:41:31.

terrible Trio instead of the terrible twins. What would you do to

:41:32.:41:37.

find her, getting Jackie surname was a stroke of luck? I have tried

:41:38.:41:43.

different companies, I have tried heir hunters, years ago I wrote to

:41:44.:41:50.

Cilla Black on Surprise, Surprise, I have done the long lost families

:41:51.:41:55.

things, written to magazines. Every single one of them has hit the same

:41:56.:42:01.

brick wall. This is one of the reasons why I had agreed to come

:42:02.:42:06.

down to London and do these programmes, the fact that somewhere

:42:07.:42:11.

out there she might be watching. Let's really hope. If she is, please

:42:12.:42:18.

get in touch. I would love... I wrote to Cilla Black and said, I

:42:19.:42:22.

would like to meet my sister Wendy before my 30th birthday. It was

:42:23.:42:31.

roughly 30 years ago to now. So I am saying, now, Wendy, I would like to

:42:32.:42:35.

meet you before my 60th birthday in May. We will really hope. Let's see,

:42:36.:42:41.

maybe somebody is watching. Thank you for telling us your amazing

:42:42.:42:46.

story. Last month, students at the London

:42:47.:42:50.

School of Economics Saturday Free-speech Society in response to

:42:51.:42:55.

what they say is increasing censorship at university campuses.

:42:56.:42:58.

In what they describe as an ironic move, students are today voting on

:42:59.:43:01.

whether the society should be banned. It is the latest in an

:43:02.:43:07.

ongoing debate about free speech at universities, safe spaces and no

:43:08.:43:12.

platform bands. The National union 's students says it has to listen to

:43:13.:43:15.

people who find some views threatening, and there is an

:43:16.:43:18.

argument that safe spaces are there to make sure everyone has a voice.

:43:19.:43:23.

You can watch the website -- the video at the website and share it.

:43:24.:43:29.

Mark on Facebook says more like being and undemocratic. Unions

:43:30.:43:32.

should be places of free speech -- free speech. Want to read says safe

:43:33.:43:39.

spaces are feminists' excuse to discriminate against people, mainly

:43:40.:43:43.

men, they hate. Another person says they need to understand that their

:43:44.:43:47.

views and political correctness are active censorship. The world will

:43:48.:43:51.

offend you, so what? Thank you for your company, I will

:43:52.:43:56.

see you on Monday. It is an Oscars special. Have a lovely weekend.

:43:57.:43:57.

Goodbye. You know, you're quite funny

:43:58.:44:01.

for a girl. This could get nasty. I think

:44:02.:44:03.

you're talking to the wrong guy. If that was my daughter,

:44:04.:44:11.

I know exactly what I'd do.

:44:12.:44:15.

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