10/03/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


10/03/2016

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 10/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:00:00.:00:08.

After getting a bumper 10% pay rise last year,

:00:09.:00:13.

MPs are about to get another increase, taking their salaries

:00:14.:00:16.

But the Scottish National Party tells us it's calling on all its MPs

:00:17.:00:22.

in Westminster NOT to take the increase.

:00:23.:00:25.

The grieving parents who say they're being forced to represent themselves

:00:26.:00:32.

at their son's inquest after being denied legal aid.

:00:33.:00:43.

Millions of low-income households could see their power bills cut

:00:44.:00:48.

after a watchdog report into energy companies.

:00:49.:00:55.

Hello, welcome to the programme, we're live on BBC 2 and the BBC

:00:56.:00:58.

News Channel until 11 each weekday this morning.

:00:59.:01:01.

We'll keep you across the latest breaking and developing stories.

:01:02.:01:04.

Plus later meet Daniel Rowland, a little boy who has selective

:01:05.:01:09.

He first appeared on our programme in 2015 and will be here

:01:10.:01:15.

with his mum at around 9:35 with an absolutely lovely update.

:01:16.:01:19.

You can get in touch in the usual ways, use the hashtag Victoria Live.

:01:20.:01:23.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:01:24.:01:26.

And of course you can watch the programme online wherever

:01:27.:01:29.

you are via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

:01:30.:01:33.

First today the emotive issue of MPs' pay.

:01:34.:01:37.

The Scottish National Party has told this programme it's calling

:01:38.:01:40.

on all its MPs at Westminster, all 54 of them, not to take next

:01:41.:01:45.

month's planned pay rise for members of Parliament.

:01:46.:01:47.

It comes just 10 months after politicians were awarded

:01:48.:01:50.

a controversial 10% pay hike and means their current salary

:01:51.:01:54.

They need to sit down and work a week in the hospital and see

:01:55.:02:30.

what it is like for the normal people,

:02:31.:02:33.

before they start giving themselves pay rises,

:02:34.:02:35.

before the people who are actually doing the hard work.

:02:36.:02:50.

The job is such that it calls for a proper salary,

:02:51.:02:54.

as well as it calls for reductions in pensions, as well as it calls

:02:55.:02:58.

for getting rid of things which were completely out of touch

:02:59.:03:05.

Our reporter James Longman has been talking to MPs

:03:06.:03:49.

Last year's 10% pay rise was heavily criticised by a lot of big names

:03:50.:03:58.

As we've seen, MPs had no choice but to accept the money that

:03:59.:04:03.

But about 70 of them said they'd donate the extra money to charity.

:04:04.:04:10.

Remember, we're still only talking about a fraction of the total number

:04:11.:04:13.

So we've been checking with those MPs who said they'd donate last

:04:14.:04:17.

time, to see if they'd do the same again.

:04:18.:04:23.

Of those, 23 of them have confirmed to us that they plan on giving

:04:24.:04:29.

That's under half the number who publicly pledged to give it

:04:30.:04:35.

This year's 1.3% rise is just above the 1% public sector rise

:04:36.:04:42.

so a lot of MPs feel it's a different situation to the large

:04:43.:04:46.

pay increase they received last time.

:04:47.:04:51.

The party to take the strongest stance seems to be the SNP.

:04:52.:04:54.

Their Westminster leader Angus Robertson is advising his MPs

:04:55.:04:56.

not to take the rise, as he did last time.

:04:57.:05:00.

They say it's a matter of principle rather than money,

:05:01.:05:04.

it's worth about ?900 this time, rather than the ?7000 last year.

:05:05.:05:09.

But we've been speaking to SNP MPs and it's not clear that they'll

:05:10.:05:14.

We contacted all of the 54 MPs and only 4 confirmed to us

:05:15.:05:24.

Lib Dem and SNP leaders both say they'll donate it,

:05:25.:05:36.

while after repeated requests for comment Labour leader

:05:37.:05:38.

Jeremy Corbyn hasn't confirmed either way.

:05:39.:05:47.

We tried to get in touch with Jeremy Corbyn, his office didn't get back

:05:48.:05:52.

to us. David Cameron was quite clear last time that he thought that it

:05:53.:05:56.

was what MPs were owed so he took the 10% and he'll be doing the same

:05:57.:06:00.

this time around. His position on MPs' pay has meant that the large

:06:01.:06:06.

majority of MPs have decided to take the both pay rises. What do MPs do

:06:07.:06:11.

with the money if they want to give it away, what have they done? There

:06:12.:06:18.

is a host of different things. A lot create funds in constituencies, so

:06:19.:06:21.

they can ask their constituents to bid for money in this fund, some put

:06:22.:06:27.

together little funds for university applicants, young people who want to

:06:28.:06:31.

get into higher education. Others put together community projects,

:06:32.:06:35.

there is a community cafe and there is a Centre for Vulnerable young

:06:36.:06:39.

women. So many of the MPs who are going to be donating this money are

:06:40.:06:44.

so let stone talk about it publicly because they worry about the

:06:45.:06:50.

backlash from other MPs they make look bad essentially. Yes. One said,

:06:51.:06:56.

I'm donating it but I don't want to talk about it because it's toxic,

:06:57.:07:00.

poisonous. What do they say about the ?75,000 a year, do they say they

:07:01.:07:04.

are worth it? There is an argument to say if you want the best people

:07:05.:07:08.

to get into Parliament, you have got to pay them to get there. The

:07:09.:07:15.

?75,000 is well above the national average, but will people be

:07:16.:07:19.

attracted to that to go into Parliament, otherwise you will end

:07:20.:07:22.

up with independently wealthy people going into Parliament. This is base

:07:23.:07:26.

salary for an MP so you could go into Parliament on this amount of

:07:27.:07:29.

money and get another job, working as a Parliamentary private secretary

:07:30.:07:33.

for a more senior MP, you could work as a minister in Government, you

:07:34.:07:36.

could work in Cabinet, all of these different positions then hike your

:07:37.:07:43.

pay. The chair of Government Select Committees review Government policy,

:07:44.:07:47.

they are paid ?15,000 each and IPSA said they are consulting on whether

:07:48.:07:52.

to increase that pay. These debates around MPs' pay are going to go on

:07:53.:07:56.

and on, but it's very toxic for MPs themselves. Thank you very much.

:07:57.:08:00.

Let's talk now to Clive Lewis, Labour MP for Norwich South,

:08:01.:08:03.

who donated his 2015 pay rise but will not be doing so this year.

:08:04.:08:10.

Good morning, tell us why not? I donated more than ?20,000 of the

:08:11.:08:20.

initial big pay rise to local charities in Norwich through

:08:21.:08:24.

JustGiving. I did that off my own back. I understand every different

:08:25.:08:28.

MP is in a different situation financially. It's a choice we can

:08:29.:08:31.

make ourselves now that it's been taken out of our control and given

:08:32.:08:34.

over to IPSA, I thought it was the right thing to do. On the 1.3%, I

:08:35.:08:41.

think I gave away the big pay rise, I'm happy to take the 1.3, I wish it

:08:42.:08:46.

was 1% in the sense that it would be in line with public sector

:08:47.:08:50.

employees, I'm told when you take into account variations, it works

:08:51.:08:57.

out about the same. What do you mean variations, 1.3 is above 1%? When

:08:58.:09:02.

you take into account bonuses and so on, that public sector employees

:09:03.:09:06.

could be paid, it could be around 1% in the end. 1% is a headline, 1% is

:09:07.:09:13.

a better pay rise, in line with what everyone else is getting. This is

:09:14.:09:17.

the key thing. Perception is so important when it comes to what MPs

:09:18.:09:23.

are paid. But for my point of view, I don't make any judgments about MP

:09:24.:09:27.

who is take it, I don't know about their financial circumstances,

:09:28.:09:30.

children, commitments. I know what I need to live on. The original pay

:09:31.:09:37.

when I was on, the mid ?65,000s, was more than I've ever earned in my

:09:38.:09:42.

life is to take on 10% on top of that, I could personally take the

:09:43.:09:46.

hit. There'll be people out there at home who say I'm on ?15,000,

:09:47.:09:51.

?20,000, I'm not see ago pay rise, I work in the public sector, real will

:09:52.:09:56.

hi hard. I've left my tablet over there, but no-one is supporting this

:09:57.:10:01.

1.3% pay rise? No. I completely understand that. I understand the

:10:02.:10:06.

anger with the 10% pay rise and the 1.3% pay rise. That was factored

:10:07.:10:11.

into my decision not to take the ?7,000 a year pay rise, I understand

:10:12.:10:16.

that. I was on the picket line yesterday with junior doctors, you

:10:17.:10:20.

know, they are seeing a real terms pay cut in their terms and

:10:21.:10:24.

conditions. Even more reason for you to donate the 1.3% perhaps. Well who

:10:25.:10:29.

here would say junior doctors don't deserve to be well paid for what

:10:30.:10:33.

they do on a daily basis. The reason people become so angry is, it's

:10:34.:10:37.

politicians in many ways that have made the political decisions and the

:10:38.:10:42.

economic decisions which mean why so many people are in the situation

:10:43.:10:48.

they are in. People on Facebook, Pete says it's sickening, one rule

:10:49.:10:51.

for them and another for us. I get it. You say you get it. I do. That

:10:52.:11:00.

is one of the main reasons I gave my ?7,000 pay rise last year away

:11:01.:11:05.

because I do get it. I get the anger that's out there. There is a

:11:06.:11:09.

morality to it. There is a bigger issue here about how we value what

:11:10.:11:12.

people do. If you think about the pay scales at the moment and look at

:11:13.:11:17.

what the top people in financial institutions, bankers and some

:11:18.:11:19.

public sector organisations, the Chief Executives, at what they're

:11:20.:11:22.

paid, then you look at what some of the people at the other end of the

:11:23.:11:28.

spectrum are paid, binmen, doctors, teachers, nurses, who's east to say

:11:29.:11:32.

the banker who may make lots of money for the economy, who also has

:11:33.:11:37.

hundreds of thousands in bonuses, are they worth that much more than a

:11:38.:11:41.

nurse, teacher, doctor, that's a question that we have to ask

:11:42.:11:46.

ourselves and how we value people. Christine says, donate the pay rise

:11:47.:11:56.

to the junior doctor? I've given the vast majority of the ?7,000 away,

:11:57.:12:00.

I'm taking the 1.3% that,'s where I am. OK. Can I ask you about

:12:01.:12:05.

something else, the decision by Labour to expel a man called Jerry

:12:06.:12:10.

Downing from your party. He was welcomed back into the Labour Party

:12:11.:12:14.

last year. The Prime Minister quoted yesterday him saying on a blog that

:12:15.:12:20.

the 9/11 hijackers must never be condemned. Mr Downing said he had

:12:21.:12:25.

been quoted out of context is. Expelling him the right decision?

:12:26.:12:29.

It's a decision that's been made and I don't know the full the tails, I

:12:30.:12:33.

only know what I've read in the media. I've read things in the media

:12:34.:12:37.

about people which I don't know whether they are true or not. If

:12:38.:12:40.

it's been looked into and the comments are correct, yes, the guy

:12:41.:12:44.

shouldn't be in the Labour Party. Why do you think Jeremy Corbyn

:12:45.:12:48.

didn't condemn his comments yesterday? First of all, David

:12:49.:12:53.

Cameron wants to make a political scene and I think Jeremy Corbyn was

:12:54.:12:56.

there to ask the Prime Minister questions, he shouldn't be asking

:12:57.:13:00.

Jeremy Corbyn questions. It's not difficult to condemn somebody who

:13:01.:13:04.

says the 9/11 hijackers must never be condemned? Jeremy Corbyn was

:13:05.:13:07.

asking David Cameron serious questions about the state of our

:13:08.:13:10.

economy, about the state of the public sector. This is serious

:13:11.:13:14.

enough for Labour to expel him? It is serious and he's been expelled

:13:15.:13:18.

but this isn't about any questions or Labour internal politics, it's

:13:19.:13:21.

Prime Minister's Questions that I think it's quite clear, Prime

:13:22.:13:23.

Minister's Questions, that's what it's about. David Cameron is a

:13:24.:13:26.

master of turning things around. If you respond to that, that's time you

:13:27.:13:29.

don't have to question David Cameron to question the Prime Minister. I

:13:30.:13:34.

think look, the decision has been made, this guy has been making

:13:35.:13:39.

stupid, offensive and silly comments and it's quite clear it's been

:13:40.:13:42.

decided there is no place for him in the Labour Party and I agree with

:13:43.:13:46.

him. Thank you very much Clive Lewis. Still to come, are you paying

:13:47.:13:52.

too much for your gas and electricity? I can't imagine there

:13:53.:13:56.

are people around the country saying, no, not at all. Also coming

:13:57.:14:02.

up, a little boy with selective mutism or a phobia of talking. We

:14:03.:14:05.

met him on the programme last year. He's back with his mum to let us

:14:06.:14:07.

know how he's getting on. New plans are unveiled to help

:14:08.:14:17.

households get better value for the money they pay for energy -

:14:18.:14:20.

and that includes capping charges The Competition and Markets

:14:21.:14:23.

Authority wants to boost protection for poorer people -

:14:24.:14:28.

and make sure people are encouraged to switch gas

:14:29.:14:30.

and electricity providers. There as in really good deals

:14:31.:14:35.

out there for all of us but there are about two

:14:36.:14:38.

thirds of us who don't We sit on the default tariff

:14:39.:14:41.

which is about 25-30% more than it Our solution to this is going to be

:14:42.:14:46.

to make it easier for people to switch, better informed,

:14:47.:14:51.

cheaper, much less hassle and we firmly believe

:14:52.:14:53.

that we are well on the way It's the second day of the junior

:14:54.:14:55.

doctors' strike and now NHS England is warning that things are getting

:14:56.:15:02.

more difficult in hospitals. But it insists plans are in place

:15:03.:15:07.

to ensure they can cope. The doctors' union is apologising

:15:08.:15:10.

but claims the walk-out, which ends tomorrow

:15:11.:15:12.

morning, is necessary. More strong words in Government

:15:13.:15:21.

ranks over the EU referendum campaign this morning.

:15:22.:15:24.

David Cameron will today accuse those campaigning to leave the EU

:15:25.:15:26.

of regarding the loss of people's jobs and businesses that

:15:27.:15:29.

could follow as "a price worth paying."

:15:30.:15:34.

They have hit back, saying his remarks are unworthy of a Prime

:15:35.:15:37.

Minister. The number of rhinos killed

:15:38.:15:39.

by poachers in Africa has increased Figures compiled for

:15:40.:15:42.

the International Union for Conservation of Nature show that

:15:43.:15:47.

more than 1300 were poached It describes the losses

:15:48.:15:49.

as 'alarming'. Here's some sport now

:15:50.:16:01.

with Olly Foster. Chelsea out of the Champions League

:16:02.:16:10.

for the second year running and unlikely to win the Premier League

:16:11.:16:12.

title? They were knocked out of the

:16:13.:16:16.

Champions League last night by Paris St Germain, they lost 2-1 at

:16:17.:16:21.

Stamford Bridge, 4-2 on aggregate. They are still in the FA Cup, every

:16:22.:16:25.

chance they could win that, but they are ten points off the top four in

:16:26.:16:29.

the Premier League so every chance they will not be in next season's

:16:30.:16:33.

Champions League, which would be the first time in 14 years, the first

:16:34.:16:39.

time in the Roman Abramovich Iraq. The Europa League, often considered

:16:40.:16:44.

the poor relation to the Champions League, has considered some of its

:16:45.:16:49.

kudos over the last few years. Spurs are playing the favourites, Borussia

:16:50.:16:52.

Dortmund, in Germany, which should be a good match. But the two most

:16:53.:16:57.

decorated clubs in the history of English football, Liverpool and

:16:58.:17:00.

Manchester United, meeting in Europe for the first time. England's women

:17:01.:17:05.

are heading home from the US, they had a difficult time of it in the

:17:06.:17:11.

She Believes cup. They lost their first two matches, a draw made sure

:17:12.:17:15.

they didn't finish bottom one they played France. We will hear from our

:17:16.:17:20.

reporter at that game in Florida. Also we anticipate the England rugby

:17:21.:17:25.

team announcement at 10am for their very, very important match against

:17:26.:17:29.

Wales at Twickenham in the six Nations on Saturday. That is after

:17:30.:17:31.

10am, we will see you then. Next an update on a story we brought

:17:32.:17:36.

you last year involving a little boy called Daniel Rowland

:17:37.:17:39.

who has selective mutism, It's an anxiety disorder that

:17:40.:17:41.

prevents children and adults speaking in certain social

:17:42.:17:44.

situations, like in lessons Yet often they are able to speak

:17:45.:17:46.

freely to close family and friends Here's Daniel and his mum

:17:47.:17:51.

Fran Rowland, who also had this condition when she was a child

:17:52.:17:55.

but overcame it, talking to us Daniel Rowland is six years

:17:56.:17:58.

old and living with SM. It is a condition his mum also had

:17:59.:18:11.

when she was a child. Daniel, do you ever

:18:12.:18:16.

find it hard to talk? Do you ever feel scared

:18:17.:18:21.

when you have to talk? Do you think one day you will be

:18:22.:18:29.

able to talk all the time? Do you want to be able

:18:30.:18:40.

to talk all the time? When I picked Daniel

:18:41.:18:45.

up from school today, he was talking to me

:18:46.:18:50.

about his day and what he did. And what he enjoys

:18:51.:18:53.

about school and things. He can't talk to teachers,

:18:54.:18:56.

and in groups of people Although he will talk to more

:18:57.:19:11.

children than I ever used to. When I was little I could

:19:12.:19:19.

never speak to anybody. I didn't know why then

:19:20.:19:21.

but I still don't know why. Whenever someone spoke to me,

:19:22.:19:27.

I wanted to speak It just wouldn't work,

:19:28.:19:29.

it just didn't happen. And teachers did not know,

:19:30.:19:33.

they thought I was shy, and then when I wouldn't speak

:19:34.:19:36.

I used to get in trouble. And sent out of class

:19:37.:19:39.

because I would not give them Daniel got off of the swing

:19:40.:19:42.

because the little girl And he was worried about her

:19:43.:19:48.

hearing him talking. I knew Daniel was like me

:19:49.:19:52.

when he was a baby. He used to be chatting away

:19:53.:19:55.

in the buggy to me and somebody he didn't know would come

:19:56.:20:06.

over and say, "Hello!" to the baby and he would,

:20:07.:20:08.

his face would just go And he would look down

:20:09.:20:11.

and he would not make eye contact and it didn't matter if they tickled

:20:12.:20:15.

him or try to make him laugh, he would just keep that set

:20:16.:20:18.

expression the whole time. I can understand him more

:20:19.:20:21.

than anyone else can. And he also knows that

:20:22.:20:25.

I was like him, because I have told him before that you will be

:20:26.:20:28.

able to talk one day because Mummy Some people who don't understand

:20:29.:20:32.

what SM is may think he is doing it because he's being stubborn,

:20:33.:20:47.

or he doing it for attention. If Daniel could talk it would be

:20:48.:20:49.

the thing that he would want to do He can't control it and if he could

:20:50.:20:54.

he wouldn't be doing this, because he just wants to be

:20:55.:21:01.

like everybody else. Daniel has been going to dance

:21:02.:21:04.

for about a year now When he first went he was terrified,

:21:05.:21:09.

he didn't want to go in. And when I picked him up after that

:21:10.:21:21.

first dance class he had absolutely And now he dances in front of

:21:22.:21:27.

people, whereas before he wouldn't. Anything you like,

:21:28.:21:32.

babes, off you go. When I first met Daniel,

:21:33.:21:37.

there felt like there was, when you sort of feel something

:21:38.:21:46.

for somebody, straight away. And his mum, when she came in,

:21:47.:21:49.

she was a bit worried I think about him not speaking

:21:50.:21:58.

and stuff like that. But he was fine, and

:21:59.:22:02.

because it is dance, I think from the first moment

:22:03.:22:05.

he came here it was like I think he sort of found a place

:22:06.:22:15.

where he can be himself. And I think it is, I am really,

:22:16.:22:22.

really pleased that he has found us. In the beginning of Where The Wild

:22:23.:22:32.

Things Are, Max was really, # Row, row row your boat,

:22:33.:22:35.

gently down the stream, # If you see a beast,

:22:36.:22:45.

don't forget to scream # Aaah!

:22:46.:22:48.

Aaah! Daniel and Fran Rowland are here now

:22:49.:22:53.

to share the news that Daniel has Good morning. Good morning. How are

:22:54.:23:13.

you? Good. Tell me what happened in September when you were at school

:23:14.:23:16.

and the teacher was doing the register? I said good morning and he

:23:17.:23:30.

was amazed. How did you feel? Happy. Was it the first time you have ever

:23:31.:23:36.

spoken in your classroom? Yes. Goodness me, well done. What did job

:23:37.:23:39.

friends think, what did they say? Nothing. Just carried on as normal?

:23:40.:23:47.

They were expecting it perhaps. Is it true you were in the school

:23:48.:23:52.

nativity play? Yes. What did you have to say in that? I forgot. Well

:23:53.:24:05.

done. Fran, Daniel, as far as you are concerned, has overcome his

:24:06.:24:09.

selective mutism? Yes, he has, he is a different child. And the idea that

:24:10.:24:17.

he, either last summer, would come into a TV studio where there are

:24:18.:24:21.

cameras, we don't know each other, and he would talk on national

:24:22.:24:30.

television... That wouldn't have happened. I didn't think this day

:24:31.:24:34.

would come, to be honest. What has it been like for you? At first, I

:24:35.:24:40.

was worried that he would go back, that the next day he would not talk,

:24:41.:24:44.

and as time went on I realised it seems to be getting better and

:24:45.:24:49.

better, and it felt like a miracle, almost, for something that would

:24:50.:24:53.

never happen, and it read. Did you know that Daniel wanted to speak

:24:54.:24:57.

when the teacher was calling the register? I did, the first week back

:24:58.:25:01.

in September he was making indications that he was going to

:25:02.:25:04.

answer the register, and it took about a week to be able to do it. He

:25:05.:25:09.

kept saying he was going to do it, then he would come home and say, I

:25:10.:25:13.

couldn't, and I would say, don't worry, another day, and then one day

:25:14.:25:15.

he came home and said, I did it. What has changed, do you think? I

:25:16.:25:31.

think it was a lot of his confidence building, and the fact that he knew

:25:32.:25:33.

all along that I had overcome selective mutism, so he knew he

:25:34.:25:36.

could do it as well. So you have reinforced to Daniel a lot, that you

:25:37.:25:39.

had the same thing when you were little and look at you now, that

:25:40.:25:42.

sort of thing? I kept saying, you will speak one day, in your own

:25:43.:25:46.

time, don't worry about it. It will happen, look, mummy can talk now,

:25:47.:25:50.

mummy didn't used to talk, so he always believed it could happen.

:25:51.:25:57.

What was it like, obviously we saw the film from last year, but since

:25:58.:26:01.

he was a little boy, growing up, what has it been like for Daniel,

:26:02.:26:05.

for you, for your family, with the fact that Daniel wouldn't speak in

:26:06.:26:10.

front of others? It was very hard for him, he didn't enjoy school, he

:26:11.:26:14.

is a very bright little boy but couldn't answer any of the

:26:15.:26:17.

questions, so all day in his head he had the answers and wasn't able to

:26:18.:26:22.

say anything, so it was quite frustrating for him, and he would

:26:23.:26:25.

come home and be quite frustrated and upset, he didn't enjoy school,

:26:26.:26:33.

so... We know that one in 150 children have selective mutism. If

:26:34.:26:38.

medical professionals talk to you about why you had it as a child, why

:26:39.:26:44.

is your son had it... I'm not sure, to be honest. When I was a child it

:26:45.:26:51.

wasn't heard of, and it took a while for Daniel's to be recognised as

:26:52.:26:56.

selective mutism. Is very experienced teacher came to cover

:26:57.:27:00.

his class one day and said to me, are you aware Daniel has got

:27:01.:27:03.

selective mutism? That was the first time I heard the word, and it is

:27:04.:27:07.

when we linked it back to my childhood and what was wrong with me

:27:08.:27:13.

as well. Do you think there is any link between you having it and your

:27:14.:27:21.

son having it? Yes. Do you? Yes, my mother has it as well. OK, so why

:27:22.:27:27.

would it have been passed down? As far as I know it is not a genetic

:27:28.:27:31.

thing? From what I have read, they are starting to think it could be

:27:32.:27:35.

genetic, but definitely my mother had it, I had it, and Daniel was the

:27:36.:27:39.

most extreme one out of the family so far. I know you took Daniel to

:27:40.:27:48.

speech therapy between the ages of five and six, how much did that

:27:49.:27:52.

help? It was in school, the school organised it. It did help because he

:27:53.:27:57.

learned to trust one adult, and amazing teaching assistant, and he

:27:58.:28:00.

learned to trust her, and he, over the course of the year, learn to

:28:01.:28:04.

speak to her, first with me there, then without me there, and he

:28:05.:28:11.

became, he really trusted her, and I think that helped, because he had

:28:12.:28:15.

somebody to trust in school. It is important to point out to people

:28:16.:28:19.

watching with the appropriate environment and handling through

:28:20.:28:25.

adults most children do overcome selective mutism, don't they? And

:28:26.:28:30.

the treatment doesn't focus on the speaking itself, it is about

:28:31.:28:34.

reducing the anxiety around the child. Would you say Daniel is on

:28:35.:28:38.

the way to recovering from his selective mutism or has he done

:28:39.:28:44.

that, has he achieved it? I think he has achieved it. People see the real

:28:45.:28:48.

Daniel, he is doing what he wants to do, and I would say he has overcome

:28:49.:28:53.

it. What advice would you give to parents who may have a child with

:28:54.:28:59.

selective mutism? I would say that it is really, really hard to see the

:29:00.:29:03.

light at the end of the tunnel, almost, and never give up hope,

:29:04.:29:06.

because there are days when you think this is never going to end, my

:29:07.:29:10.

Child is going to have this their whole life and I will have to keep

:29:11.:29:15.

battling. But it can end, there is hope, because my son is talking.

:29:16.:29:19.

Daniel, is it true you got told off at school -- at school for being too

:29:20.:29:26.

chatty, talking in lessons? Did you? I bet you were thrilled by that?! I

:29:27.:29:32.

was, I was really happy! It was actually funny! Can I ask you what

:29:33.:29:37.

you would like to be when you grow up, Daniel? And actor. Would you? Is

:29:38.:29:45.

that because you were in the nativity play at Christmas? I think

:29:46.:29:55.

you have signed him up to an acting agency, is that right? Yes, we have,

:29:56.:30:02.

because he wanted to do it, and he auditioned and stood in front of a

:30:03.:30:06.

load of people and did his audition, and he's very confident, he is not

:30:07.:30:10.

shy at all, not shy, and he is able to talk. So, yes, he did fantastic.

:30:11.:30:18.

I think at first a lot of people think if a child isn't speaking it

:30:19.:30:22.

is because they are shy, and that will be the case with most children,

:30:23.:30:27.

but I suppose you might suggest it is important to look further in case

:30:28.:30:31.

it is something else? Yes, he was never shy. I know that sounds... He

:30:32.:30:37.

wasn't a shy child, he would be happy to do things in front of

:30:38.:30:41.

people, whereas his brother is shy and he is typically shy, whereas

:30:42.:30:46.

Daniel it was just speaking, it was something completely different.

:30:47.:30:50.

Thank you for pointing that out. Daniel, well done, you. Thank you

:30:51.:30:54.

for coming on our programme. Will you come again? Yes! Thank you.

:30:55.:30:58.

Fran, thank you so much. Oh, I have some e-mails. Can I just

:30:59.:31:09.

read them to you. Bear with me while we get them one second. Sorry, my

:31:10.:31:16.

gosh it's taking forever. Rubbish Wi-Fi in this basement. Maria on

:31:17.:31:21.

Twitter says Daniel is a lovely boy, wishing him well in his future and

:31:22.:31:25.

hope he keeps dancing as he looks like an excellent dancer. Are you

:31:26.:31:32.

still dancing? What fantastic progress on national TV helping us

:31:33.:31:36.

understand more about selective mutism another texter says. On

:31:37.:31:41.

Twitter ARC says, Daniel is an inspirational little boy. This

:31:42.:31:46.

e-mail from somebody who hasn't left their name, what a hero overcoming

:31:47.:31:51.

something almost unheard of, a shining example of patient and

:31:52.:31:55.

loving parenting. Robin tweets, so interesting to hear

:31:56.:31:58.

Daniel's story and what an amazing dancer he is. Plus so brave to talk

:31:59.:32:02.

on national television. Thank you so much.

:32:03.:32:03.

They all love you! Quite right too. Coming up: The grieving parents

:32:04.:32:08.

who say they're being forced to represent themselves

:32:09.:32:11.

at their son's inquest Smartphones and tablets are

:32:12.:32:30.

everywhere. BBC News and Five Live have challenged more than a thousand

:32:31.:32:33.

students to turn off their technology for a week. That weekend

:32:34.:32:40.

is today. Pupils and staff at Tarporley High School in Cheshire

:32:41.:32:46.

have given up their computers. Here are easiy and Tom who tell us how

:32:47.:32:51.

they are getting on. I'm taking part in the detox and for a whole week we

:32:52.:32:57.

are not allowed Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, so no social

:32:58.:33:01.

media at all, no YouTube and no games. Hello, Tom here. Day one of

:33:02.:33:07.

my digital detox. Going good-ish. Really? Um, I watched a bit of TV, I

:33:08.:33:13.

haven't watched any YouTube because I can't obviously. It's going well.

:33:14.:33:19.

I'm feeling normal really, there's not much difference, although I'm a

:33:20.:33:22.

bit annoyed that I can't watch YouTube. I'm getting a bit stressed

:33:23.:33:28.

about it. Hi, easiy again, update on my digital detox. I've got my badge

:33:29.:33:33.

still and it's day two, I've been social media free for well over 24

:33:34.:33:38.

hours. I find I'm reaching a lot more than I should for my phone. I'm

:33:39.:33:46.

glad I logged out of everything. Apprehensive about the weekend

:33:47.:33:49.

because I have a lot of spare time, I usually fill that with my time.

:33:50.:33:54.

Day two of my digital detox. It's hard not to pick up your phone and

:33:55.:34:01.

check notifications really and YouTube because I sort of get

:34:02.:34:06.

comfort from watching YouTube and I haven't really had that there but

:34:07.:34:10.

it's given me time to work on my guitar skills. A I'm on day three of

:34:11.:34:15.

the digital detox, it's Friday, I've done quite well so far. I'm

:34:16.:34:19.

definitely missing it a lot, but I've found I'm coping pretty well.

:34:20.:34:24.

I've been doing a bit more reading, I've been doing a bit more spending

:34:25.:34:29.

time with my family. I'm talking quietly, everyone else is in bed.

:34:30.:34:35.

It's day three. Today's been quite difficult. Honestly, it's been the

:34:36.:34:39.

most difficult because it's Friday and normally on Friday I just chill

:34:40.:34:45.

out, relax, watch YouTube, but I haven't been able to do that. I

:34:46.:34:49.

managed to survive. I've been downstairs with my family talking to

:34:50.:34:54.

them. God knows how. Day five so it's Sunday night. I've had a busy

:34:55.:34:59.

weekend so I've not found it as difficult as I thought I might so

:35:00.:35:04.

that's good. Although, having said that, it was definitely a lot easier

:35:05.:35:08.

when I was in school because I know a lot of the people from my

:35:09.:35:11.

friendship group were also doing the challenge and it was a bit of

:35:12.:35:15.

feeling almost competitive like not wanting to be the first person to

:35:16.:35:17.

give in. Day four. Saturday. It's been the

:35:18.:35:26.

most difficult day because it's the weekend and normally at the weekend

:35:27.:35:37.

I just watch YouTube, but... I have kept myself entertained. Day five of

:35:38.:35:41.

my digital detox. It's so difficult. I'm still in it, I haven't given up

:35:42.:35:47.

but it's incredibly difficult. I've got nothing to do. I'm bored.

:35:48.:35:51.

Yesterday I went to do stuff with my friend and today I've been to town,

:35:52.:35:58.

but it's quite difficult not to like check because I like looking at

:35:59.:36:02.

clothes and stuff online but I can't and it's frustrating. But... That's

:36:03.:36:06.

the weekend done, that's the most difficult part.

:36:07.:36:13.

You can see more on the website at www.bbc.co.uk/schoolreport. Thank

:36:14.:36:16.

you for all your comments on the MPs' pay rise which is coming soon.

:36:17.:36:23.

1.3% MPs will receive this year. Recommended by the independent

:36:24.:36:25.

Parliamentary standards authority. It's been taken out of the hands of

:36:26.:36:30.

MPs, they don't vote on their own pay rise any more. It's been taken

:36:31.:36:34.

out of their hands. IPSA decides now. This e-mail is from somebody

:36:35.:36:39.

who says, they are married to a Member of Parliament. I would like

:36:40.:36:43.

to remain anonymous as my husband is an MP. He's one of the few MPs who

:36:44.:36:48.

doesn't have a second job. He's not independently wealthy, nor has he

:36:49.:36:52.

any other source of income. He just does his duty as an MP to

:36:53.:36:57.

the best of his ability. This takes him away from home, involve Miss

:36:58.:37:05.

Hours of travelling. He's away some weekends. He deserves the pay. He

:37:06.:37:09.

gives a considerable amount to charity both in time and in monthly

:37:10.:37:14.

one-off donations. He's extremely kind to others. This texter says,

:37:15.:37:19.

the politicians will be making a great gesture if they gave their pay

:37:20.:37:24.

rise to a low-income family in their own constituency. It would change

:37:25.:37:27.

someone's life and maybe give some children a great holiday. Reelian

:37:28.:37:35.

none says it's riddic ploughs, half the country are struggling. Another

:37:36.:37:40.

person says, frontline public sector staff have had nothing for years,

:37:41.:37:46.

thank you be justified. Another e-mail says, they should be on a

:37:47.:37:50.

basic salary of ?25,000 a year then if they perform well, they should

:37:51.:37:55.

get bonuses. Neil says, we need to pay MPs sufficiently. ?75,000 a year

:37:56.:38:00.

is appropriate in the wider landscape. A texter says, I work in

:38:01.:38:05.

the police, it sickens me to see MPs getting this pay rise when we put

:38:06.:38:09.

our lives on the line every day. Lesley says, I'm fed up with people

:38:10.:38:13.

who have this mean attitude to MPs, especially towards their salary. Be

:38:14.:38:17.

realistic, with the rise, it still won't be comparable to that of the

:38:18.:38:21.

same level in other organisations. The majority work very hard and make

:38:22.:38:25.

personal and career sacrifices. We should be ashamed of our sting

:38:26.:38:30.

edginess. A texter says, MPs are not paid enough, how can the man running

:38:31.:38:34.

the country be paid less than people run ago lower league football club

:38:35.:38:39.

Jackie says, compared to many senior officers in medium sized PLCs,

:38:40.:38:51.

?75,000 is not a huge salary. The base salary should be seriously

:38:52.:38:54.

reviewed. Thank you for those. Keep them

:38:55.:38:58.

coming in. I know you will without me even inviting you to. Do get in

:38:59.:39:05.

touch in the usual ways. Next Syria, the ongoing conflict

:39:06.:39:11.

there's meant there are 4. #6 million refugees and 13.5 million

:39:12.:39:17.

people in need of humanitarian assistance inside Syria.

:39:18.:39:22.

Must FA is one of them. He's five years of age, partially paralysed

:39:23.:39:26.

and an orphan after a barrel bomb hit his home -- Musstafa. His

:39:27.:39:35.

determination to learn to walk again has amazed doctors at the Medecins

:39:36.:39:39.

Sans Frontieres centre in Jordan. Here is his story.

:39:40.:40:29.

And in the first time he couldn't even stand up.

:40:30.:40:34.

I had to hold him like you hold a small baby.

:40:35.:40:37.

When you keep just talking about him.

:40:38.:41:47.

When he was walking in the corridor and just came to me and hugged me

:41:48.:41:57.

If you use a pre-payment meter to get your gas and electricity

:41:58.:42:19.

and there are 4 million low-income households that do;

:42:20.:42:21.

We are awaiting the report. There is another report in the summer.

:42:22.:42:33.

Details in the next half hour. In the meantime, here is Carol with the

:42:34.:42:34.

weather. We have seen a lot of different

:42:35.:42:44.

weather. A weather-watcher sent in this one, mist in Perth and Kinross,

:42:45.:42:53.

but equally beautiful blue skies. Beautiful blue skies in Somerset. In

:42:54.:42:57.

Northern Ireland, look at that sun rise, how spectacular is that? For

:42:58.:43:02.

many, it's been fine, dry, however, there is a bit of cloud around this

:43:03.:43:05.

morning and that cloud has been producing some rain. The rain isn't

:43:06.:43:09.

particularly heavy but it has been coming in courtesy of this weather

:43:10.:43:11.

front which is weakening all the time. Rain particularly across parts

:43:12.:43:15.

of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire. There is a lot of drizzle coming out of

:43:16.:43:21.

this cloud and it extends all the way through southern Scotland,

:43:22.:43:24.

through the heart of England and towards the Channel Islands. That's

:43:25.:43:27.

where we are likely to see spots of rain. Brighter skies in East Anglia

:43:28.:43:32.

and Kent. Out towards the west, particularly in areas adjacent to

:43:33.:43:36.

the Irish Sea, we are also looking at sunshine. This morning, we hang

:43:37.:43:42.

on to some of the cloud and into the afternoon, we have the odd spot.

:43:43.:43:47.

Nice day for East Anglia, Essex and Kent. As we pick up the cloud again

:43:48.:43:51.

from the Midlands to Hampshire, we are prone to the odd spot of rain.

:43:52.:43:55.

Most of us will miss that. Lovely day in prospect in south-west

:43:56.:43:58.

England towards Somerset, as we saw if an earlier picture, and a similar

:43:59.:44:03.

story across Wales. A bit more cloud at times will develop across east

:44:04.:44:05.

Wales. For Northern Ireland, the opposite is true, the cloud is going

:44:06.:44:09.

to come in from the west and the same too for western Scotland. For

:44:10.:44:13.

the rest of Scotland, dry and bright with sunshine. The thicker cloud in

:44:14.:44:17.

the east might produce the odd spot of rain but you will be unlucky if

:44:18.:44:22.

it does. Through the evening, we see showers arrive before the main band

:44:23.:44:27.

of rain comes in. This is the weather front accompanied by breezy

:44:28.:44:32.

conditions. There'll be a touch of frost. It will be cold enough for

:44:33.:44:35.

that and we are looking at patchy fog as well. That fog won't lift

:44:36.:44:40.

until 9 or 10 tomorrow morning, then it should clear. Tomorrow, as a

:44:41.:44:45.

result for England and Wales, once again lovely blue skies, variable

:44:46.:44:49.

amounts of cloud. It will be bright, rather than sunny at times. Same

:44:50.:44:53.

around the Moray Firth. The north-west parts of England, we

:44:54.:44:56.

should see some sunshine. The weather front will still produce

:44:57.:44:59.

some rain in Scotland, noticeably across Northern Ireland too. As we

:45:00.:45:02.

head on into the weekend, we continue with a lot of settled

:45:03.:45:06.

weather. Again, lots of dry weather in England and Wales, but still at

:45:07.:45:10.

times there'll be some wet and windy weather across the far north.

:45:11.:45:12.

Temperatures continuing to rise. . Hello, I'm Victoria

:45:13.:45:17.

Derbyshire, good morning. Seven-year-old Zane was poisoned

:45:18.:45:25.

by fumes during flooding at his home, but his parents

:45:26.:45:27.

and the authorities disagree Now his parents say they're

:45:28.:45:30.

being forced to represent themselves at his inquest after

:45:31.:45:39.

being denied legal aid - We've been hearing from a little boy

:45:40.:45:41.

with selective mutism whose story we've been following

:45:42.:45:45.

on this programme. Daniel, who has started

:45:46.:45:56.

to overcome his phobia, told me how it felt to speak

:45:57.:45:58.

in class for the first time. He looked amazed after I said it.

:45:59.:46:01.

How did you feel? Happy. You can see the full interview

:46:02.:46:11.

on our programme page And we'll have the latest

:46:12.:46:14.

on Madonna's bitter dispute with ex-husband Guy Ritchie over

:46:15.:46:17.

where their son Rocco should live. Four million households with pre-pay

:46:18.:46:29.

gas and electricity meters should get a cap on how much they're

:46:30.:46:35.

charged - that's the call Its unveiled plans to help

:46:36.:46:38.

households get better value for the money they pay for energy,

:46:39.:46:41.

including boosting protection There are some really good deals

:46:42.:46:44.

out there for all of us but about two-thirds

:46:45.:46:58.

of us don't take them. We sit on the default tariff

:46:59.:47:00.

which is about 25-30% more than it Our solution to this is going to be

:47:01.:47:03.

to make it easier for people to switch, better informed,

:47:04.:47:07.

cheaper, much less hassle and we firmly believe

:47:08.:47:09.

that we are well on the way There has been a sharp rise in

:47:10.:47:18.

emergency admissions with NHS England reporting demands on

:47:19.:47:23.

services. January saw calls to NHS 111 rise by almost a fifth. Figures

:47:24.:47:27.

show delays in accident and emergency unit in England have also

:47:28.:47:31.

reached record levels with 89% of patients dealt with within four

:47:32.:47:32.

hours. It's the second day of the junior

:47:33.:47:34.

doctors' strike and now NHS England is warning that things are getting

:47:35.:47:37.

more difficult in hospitals. But it insists plans are in place

:47:38.:47:40.

to ensure they can cope. The doctors' union is apologising,

:47:41.:47:43.

but claims the walk-out, that ends tomorrow

:47:44.:47:46.

morning, is necessary. More scrapping within Government

:47:47.:47:56.

ranks over the EU referendum campaign this morning -

:47:57.:47:58.

David Cameron is accusing leave campaigners of thinking the loss

:47:59.:48:00.

of jobs and business But they've hit back,

:48:01.:48:02.

saying the remarks are unworthy The suffering and loss of rhino

:48:03.:48:06.

populations in Africa to poachers More than 1300 rhinos were poached

:48:07.:48:10.

for their horns last year. The International Union

:48:11.:48:17.

for Conservation says it's the sixth year in a row there's

:48:18.:48:19.

been an increase. It describes the losses

:48:20.:48:21.

as 'alarming'. Children across the UK

:48:22.:48:22.

are being invited to pick up their pens and notepads

:48:23.:48:24.

for the BBC News School Report Day. It's the 10th year that pupils have

:48:25.:48:30.

been making their own reports on issues that are affecting them,

:48:31.:48:35.

and this time some of the school reporters have been looking

:48:36.:48:38.

at the daily impact of social media. Chelsea have been knocked out

:48:39.:48:41.

of the Champions League. They trailed 2-1 after the first leg

:48:42.:48:46.

of their match against Paris St Germain and lost

:48:47.:48:49.

by the same scoreline The French took the lead early

:48:50.:48:51.

on but the Chelsea striker Diego Costa, who had been branded

:48:52.:48:59.

a fraud by PSG in the build-up to the match, crafted

:49:00.:49:03.

a terrific equaliser. Hope was extinguished midway

:49:04.:49:04.

through the second half as Zlatan Ibrahimovic scored

:49:05.:49:08.

the winner on the night for a 4-2 aggregate victory that puts them

:49:09.:49:11.

in the quarterfinals. Chelsea are still in the FA Cup

:49:12.:49:16.

but are a long way off the top four in the Premier League and so face

:49:17.:49:20.

missing out on a place in next season's Champions League

:49:21.:49:25.

for the first time in 14 years. We tried to do our first job, to get

:49:26.:49:35.

out of the relegation zone, but it was a very big gap to go on a place

:49:36.:49:41.

where the right is to play Champions League. That's not, how shall I say,

:49:42.:49:53.

Chelsea must consider in its short future how to handle this.

:49:54.:49:56.

It's the last 16 of the Europa League tonight,

:49:57.:49:58.

Tottenham face the favourites Borrussia Dortmund in Germany

:49:59.:50:00.

but at Anfield it's the first leg of Liverpool against Manchester

:50:01.:50:02.

England's two most successful sides have never met in Europe before.

:50:03.:50:12.

Games like this, the mother of all football games, that is what you

:50:13.:50:20.

really want when you are younger, when you can play. You don't have to

:50:21.:50:26.

think about concentration, you are concentrated, it's absolutely easy

:50:27.:50:32.

then. And so, yes, it's a big challenge, but the best thing you

:50:33.:50:33.

can do in football. England's women just avoided

:50:34.:50:38.

finishing bottom at the end of their three-match friendly

:50:39.:50:41.

tournament in the USA. After two defeats they signed

:50:42.:50:43.

off with a 0-0 draw Jo Currie was at the match

:50:44.:50:45.

for us in Boca Ratone. England said they were coming to the

:50:46.:50:59.

She Believes cup to win it, but it wasn't to be. After defeats to the

:51:00.:51:03.

USA and Germany they needed at least a draw against France to avoid

:51:04.:51:09.

finishing bottom. The lionesses were forced to defend time and time

:51:10.:51:15.

again. They went close and hit the crossbar. Demi Stokes had England's

:51:16.:51:20.

best chance but could not beat the goalkeeper. The captain was buoyant

:51:21.:51:25.

about her team's performance. Knowing how tied each of the three

:51:26.:51:29.

games have been, we are very pleased with how we have progressed first

:51:30.:51:32.

and foremost, it is the first time we have been together for three

:51:33.:51:36.

months, so to come here and have two weeks, and with each game we got

:51:37.:51:40.

better and better, and unfortunately the results didn't come but without

:51:41.:51:43.

a doubt the performance and progression of the team is on the

:51:44.:51:48.

way up. Hosts USA eventually won the She Believes cup with a 2-1 win

:51:49.:51:59.

against Germany in the final. England's results may not have been

:52:00.:52:02.

what they wanted this week, but their performances have impressed,

:52:03.:52:04.

having gone toe to toe with the top three teams in the world.

:52:05.:52:05.

In the last few minutes, England have named an unchanged team

:52:06.:52:13.

to face Wales in the Six Nations at Twickenham on Saturday,

:52:14.:52:19.

but there's plenty of interest in who's on the bench.

:52:20.:52:21.

Manu Tuilagi is among the replacements and set

:52:22.:52:23.

to win his first cap in almost two years.

:52:24.:52:26.

He's had various injuries, the head coach Eddie Jones says

:52:27.:52:28.

the Leicester centre has been picked on potential more

:52:29.:52:30.

The winner will be favourite to go on and win the title,

:52:31.:52:34.

with one more round of matches to go.

:52:35.:52:36.

I will be back with the headlines at 10:30am.

:52:37.:52:38.

Good morning, we're on BBC Two and the BBC News Channel

:52:39.:52:40.

Earlier we met the amazing Daniel Rowland, little boy had as -- who

:52:41.:52:50.

had selective mutism, a phobia of talking. You have been e-mailing us.

:52:51.:52:56.

Lynn said, I experienced selective mutism with a girl in my class 28

:52:57.:53:00.

years ago, it was a joyous day when she first spoke.

:53:01.:53:04.

Another says, my son had a similar problem with selective mutism, glad

:53:05.:53:08.

to know there is a name for the condition, it was frustrating for us

:53:09.:53:11.

because he had normal conversation that home.

:53:12.:53:14.

Alison takes two to say, your feature has given me a name for what

:53:15.:53:18.

I have, I didn't speak during my first year at school and thought I

:53:19.:53:23.

was shy. I grew out of it and I am a woman in my late 50s.

:53:24.:53:24.

You can get in touch in the usual ways, use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE.

:53:25.:53:28.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:53:29.:53:30.

Wherever you are you can watch our programme online

:53:31.:53:33.

via the BBC News app or our website, bbc.co.uk/victoria.

:53:34.:53:40.

The parents of a seven-year-old boy who died during the flooding

:53:41.:53:46.

in Surrey two years ago say they may have to represent themselves

:53:47.:53:49.

at the coroner's inquest because they've been

:53:50.:53:51.

Zane Gbangbola died in Chertsey in February 2014.

:53:52.:53:56.

The authorities say he was poisoned by carbon monoxide fumes.

:53:57.:54:02.

His family believe he was killed by hydrogen cyanide from a contaminated

:54:03.:54:05.

An inquest into the boy's death opens in June.

:54:06.:54:08.

The leader of the Green Party has asked the Prime Minister to step

:54:09.:54:11.

in and help the family get legal aid.

:54:12.:54:15.

Zane's parents are Nicole Lawler and Kye Gbangbola.

:54:16.:54:21.

Welcome to the programme, thank you for talking to us.

:54:22.:54:24.

Our legal affairs analyst Clive Coleman is also here.

:54:25.:54:27.

He will talk about the legal aid issue and the changes made by the

:54:28.:54:33.

Government. I would like to ask you, first of all, if I may, about the

:54:34.:54:40.

flooding in 2014. It had been going on in your basement for a few weeks,

:54:41.:54:48.

hadn't it? The house had water come into the basement in January, and it

:54:49.:54:55.

happened again, so we naturally defended the property, because it is

:54:56.:54:58.

Victorian, it is designed with a flood basement, and as long as you

:54:59.:55:03.

can pump out the water quicker than it comes in, you are fine. It is an

:55:04.:55:08.

all electric house, all of the pumps were electric pumps. Essentially

:55:09.:55:13.

what happened, Zane and I returned home, I kissed him good night, and

:55:14.:55:22.

woke up in hospital the next day to find that my beautiful son had died.

:55:23.:55:32.

What had happened is the landfill, the water had passed through the

:55:33.:55:35.

landfill underneath the house and released toxins into the house, we

:55:36.:55:41.

now know it to be hydrogen cyanide, undisputed. That gas had infused the

:55:42.:55:48.

house and resulted in the whole area needing to be evacuated. The bridge

:55:49.:55:54.

over the Thames into our area needed to be closed down, a pop-up

:55:55.:55:57.

hospital, many people ambulance to the hospital, and no parent should

:55:58.:56:05.

see their child in a special toxic body bag. We have thought, really,

:56:06.:56:13.

over the last two years, because we have always had knowledge of

:56:14.:56:17.

hydrogen cyanide, so the key facts are these: They said it wasn't

:56:18.:56:21.

hydrogen cyanide, we now know there was hydrogen cyanide. They said

:56:22.:56:27.

there was carbon monoxide, we now know that multiple sweeps identified

:56:28.:56:31.

it was never any carbon monoxide. We now know that it is landfill,

:56:32.:56:39.

whereas in the beginning they said the land had never been used as

:56:40.:56:43.

landfill. So these are toxic combination that have occurred. Much

:56:44.:56:49.

information has been exposed which has led us to a situation now where

:56:50.:56:55.

information came out as regards the levels from a national incident logs

:56:56.:56:59.

that was read out in the coroner's key ring, and that said there were

:57:00.:57:05.

25,000 ppm of hydrogen cyanide that was in our home, so we really do

:57:06.:57:13.

need to have support as other organisations are in a situation

:57:14.:57:18.

where they are funded at the public's expense. I will come onto

:57:19.:57:23.

their readers point you raised there in a second the reason that you are

:57:24.:57:28.

in a wheelchair is because of what happened on that night as well? Yes,

:57:29.:57:38.

I'm secondary to the issue of my son, Zane, and awareness of other

:57:39.:57:45.

people, which is why we have the Truth About Zane campaign, because

:57:46.:57:48.

it raises awareness of issues that affect everyone, which is landfill,

:57:49.:57:53.

flooding, and people, and increasingly with the floods that

:57:54.:57:58.

will happen more and more, we don't want that to happen. This is

:57:59.:58:05.

information that you have, how audience will be hearing this for

:58:06.:58:11.

the first time. And initial postmortem found no clear cause of

:58:12.:58:16.

death, further tests were taken and the pathologist said that your son

:58:17.:58:22.

died from carbon monoxide poisoning. Possibly from what was described as

:58:23.:58:28.

a petrol driven pump, this is what you dispute? Yes, the original

:58:29.:58:36.

postmortem for Zane, it is difficult to speak about, no one ever wants to

:58:37.:58:40.

speak about their child's's postmortem, it actually ruled out

:58:41.:58:45.

carbon monoxide and any parental influence. As secondary report was

:58:46.:58:56.

done, only one autopsy, and that suggested that there may be carbon

:58:57.:59:00.

monoxide, so that dumbfounded us, considering the fact of the actual

:59:01.:59:10.

case. So... So that is what is potentially going to be argued that

:59:11.:59:16.

your son's inquest, which is why, Nicole, you say you need legal aid?

:59:17.:59:23.

Absolutely. The petrol pump, going back to your question to Kye, was a

:59:24.:59:28.

pump that was hired in case the electricity went when the house was

:59:29.:59:32.

flooded. It wasn't in use, it had no fuel in it, and there was no petrol,

:59:33.:59:39.

so I just want to let everybody know that was the position and this is

:59:40.:59:43.

why we strongly disputed. And the police looked into that in case

:59:44.:59:46.

there was any liability from the company that hired it to you, and

:59:47.:59:51.

there was no case to answer? Absolutely, we spent over ?100 a few

:59:52.:59:55.

weeks before and had to travel long distance to hire a pump, so what we

:59:56.:59:59.

did was hire it for a week in case we needed it. For the legal aid

:00:00.:00:06.

question, we are in a position where we have over 60 witnesses and over

:00:07.:00:16.

20 lever arch files, we have already experienced six pre-inquest hearings

:00:17.:00:20.

where there has been complex and difficult legal arguments which are

:00:21.:00:26.

way beyond our understanding to deal with. We will be expected to

:00:27.:00:32.

question all 60 witnesses and to answer questions ourselves as

:00:33.:00:38.

witnesses. The hardest thing you will ever do is read your child's's

:00:39.:00:43.

postmortem, and to have to then question the very people that did

:00:44.:00:48.

that... They have put us in an impossible situation. We have always

:00:49.:00:52.

said, you cannot die from a substance that wasn't there. The

:00:53.:01:02.

readings, in terms of a measure called carboxyhaemoglobin for the

:01:03.:01:06.

whole family, was half of what any person has that is in London that

:01:07.:01:11.

walks along Oxford Street. We all know that is not toxic to human

:01:12.:01:14.

beings, otherwise the whole of London would be dead. So it is clear

:01:15.:01:20.

that you simply cannot die from a substance that is not there.

:01:21.:01:35.

You applied for legal aid and you were declined. Yes, they said it was

:01:36.:01:41.

not in the public interest. Why did they say that? It's in the public

:01:42.:01:50.

interest because it's in relation to people. There are over 30,000 people

:01:51.:02:00.

signed up to the Truth about Zane campaign and we simply do not want

:02:01.:02:03.

this to happen again to other people. It's certainly something

:02:04.:02:10.

that needs an impact on public policy to protect our children. One

:02:11.:02:16.

of the reasons why we are having support is because that's understood

:02:17.:02:22.

that there is a growing risk in relation to issues of landfill and

:02:23.:02:27.

flooding and that has to be tempered.

:02:28.:02:31.

I want to read you a couple of statements I've got. The local

:02:32.:02:37.

council tell us they have the utmost sympathy for the family in relation

:02:38.:02:41.

to the loss of their son and understandable need for answers. The

:02:42.:02:43.

council's position is that there is no evidence of a risk to public

:02:44.:02:48.

health in the area from the lake near your home or that Zane's death

:02:49.:02:55.

was brought about as a result of floodwater contamination, we

:02:56.:02:57.

recognise it's important the matter is concluded as soon as possible. At

:02:58.:03:01.

the time, the council and public health England said the land is not

:03:02.:03:05.

contaminate and there is no risk to public health. That's something that

:03:06.:03:08.

you want to question them further on, or rather you would rather have

:03:09.:03:12.

the legal aid for a barrister to question them on that further on in

:03:13.:03:17.

the inquest? Everyone should ask the question, how is it we live in a

:03:18.:03:20.

country where there is no investigation into a toxic gas

:03:21.:03:27.

that's in an area or its source? So it's not right that you can, that

:03:28.:03:31.

they can make that point, because there has been no investigation into

:03:32.:03:37.

the land. I just want to add that the property next door to us is

:03:38.:03:41.

owned by the Environment Agency and they had extensive reports all

:03:42.:03:46.

documented and public, that there were migrating gases from that field

:03:47.:03:53.

when they applied to the Council for Planning permission, and part of the

:03:54.:03:58.

planning permission was that they needed to remediate that land

:03:59.:04:01.

because the migrating gases cause harm or death. What happened was the

:04:02.:04:06.

Environment Agency put gas proof membrane in their property and

:04:07.:04:10.

nobody else was informed so no-one could make informed decisions. So

:04:11.:04:21.

the council are already, it's already documented that that.

:04:22.:04:32.

Let me bring in Clive Coleman if I may in terms of the legal aid issue.

:04:33.:04:42.

Why are they not entitled to legal aid? The position in legal aid for

:04:43.:04:48.

inquests is as follows: There is legal aid available for the

:04:49.:04:51.

preparation leading up to the inquest. That includes lawyers

:04:52.:04:55.

writing submissions to be put to the coroner. Where it's highly

:04:56.:04:59.

contentious, there is no longer any general right to legal aid for

:05:00.:05:02.

representation at the inquest. The reason for that, the Government

:05:03.:05:08.

gives, is that an inquest, it says, is an informal, non-adverse aerial

:05:09.:05:13.

inquiry and it's design sod that ordinary people can participate and

:05:14.:05:16.

understand and ask questions and the coroner can ask questions on their

:05:17.:05:20.

behalf. But of course you have just heard that you can have inquests

:05:21.:05:25.

that are immensely complex as this one is, 60 lever arch files, the

:05:26.:05:30.

idea even for a barrister when cross-examining a toxicologist, you

:05:31.:05:34.

know who, has an area of expertise that you don't have, is quite

:05:35.:05:41.

intimidating. For someone without the scientific knowledge, for them

:05:42.:05:45.

to take that on is a big ask. Where, as I understand it, your application

:05:46.:05:51.

failed, was that there's exceptional funding, so you can get it if you

:05:52.:05:54.

are the family of the deceased in two instances, one is when there's a

:05:55.:05:57.

suspicion that the death might have been at the hands of a state actor,

:05:58.:06:03.

so a death in custody, police shooting, something like that. The

:06:04.:06:06.

other is when there's a wider public interest. I think you said you were

:06:07.:06:10.

told it wasn't in the "public interest", the grounds are "wider

:06:11.:06:17.

public interest" and the basis for determining that is, if there'll be

:06:18.:06:21.

a benefit for you having an advocate, if there could be a

:06:22.:06:24.

benefit to a wider group, not related to the family but a wider

:06:25.:06:28.

group of people, in this case no doubt you would argue that's anyone

:06:29.:06:33.

who lives near landfill. I don't think you have had detailed reasons

:06:34.:06:37.

for why you failed first time round and at the appeal, but that's the

:06:38.:06:42.

basis. The case worker has to look at whether there's wider class of

:06:43.:06:47.

people who'd benefit if the family had an advocate and that's where

:06:48.:06:51.

this has fallen and you have heard an explanation of what that wider

:06:52.:06:56.

group would be. May I say; the death of a child is

:06:57.:07:00.

like having your heart torn out. In our case, we have had that stamped

:07:01.:07:06.

on many times. The not receiving legal aid is a blow to the revealing

:07:07.:07:11.

of the truth for answers and justice and we have only ever asked for

:07:12.:07:22.

answers. It's an injustice to expect us, as deceased parents, to

:07:23.:07:25.

represent ourselves over a six-week period, against five of the

:07:26.:07:29.

country's best Queen's Counsel that are funded at the public's expense.

:07:30.:07:37.

We are defenceless. We are simply victims and survivors and what we

:07:38.:07:42.

are saying is that this is in the wider interest because of these

:07:43.:07:47.

growing issues of flooding and the fact that landfill has caused a

:07:48.:07:51.

toxic substance to cause all these injuries. My diagnosis is paraplegic

:07:52.:07:59.

due to cyanide poisoning. Zane was closer to me than you are.

:08:00.:08:03.

David Cameron's stepped in once before on a case where the family

:08:04.:08:07.

had been denied legal aid. The case of Bobby Shepherd and his sister who

:08:08.:08:12.

died from carbon dioxide poisoning in Corfu in 2006. What would you say

:08:13.:08:20.

to him this morning? Well, I would say, we need the leadership and the

:08:21.:08:25.

championing and the care that has been shown by those people like

:08:26.:08:31.

Natalie Bennett and others that have said, of course we should receive

:08:32.:08:35.

legal aid. It's absolutely wrong to send us in defenceless against five

:08:36.:08:41.

Goliaths. That's not right. We'd say to David Cameron, please review the

:08:42.:08:46.

situation so that we can receive the kind of defence that is needed in

:08:47.:08:53.

order to protect and show responsibility and care to a wider

:08:54.:08:57.

public and society. Thank you both very much for coming

:08:58.:08:59.

on the programme. Still to come Next before 11;

:09:00.:09:14.

if you use a pre-payment meter and electricity, and there

:09:15.:09:17.

are 4 million low-income households You probably knew that already,

:09:18.:09:22.

but it's been confirmed today It says rates should be dropped

:09:23.:09:27.

and brought into line After an 18 month investigation

:09:28.:09:32.

focusing on the dominance of the UK's Big Six energy

:09:33.:09:37.

providers the Competition and Markets Authority has come up

:09:38.:09:39.

with what it calls remedies. And there's a plan to

:09:40.:09:45.

extract small and medium sized businesses from long-term

:09:46.:09:47.

deals that cost too much, saying they should be able to switch

:09:48.:09:50.

more easily It also suggests a massive database open to all rival

:09:51.:09:52.

companies to allow direct marketing That would cover households who've

:09:53.:09:56.

been on standard variable tariffs for three years and,

:09:57.:10:02.

it says, would protect customers We can speak now to Andy Cook,

:10:03.:10:04.

who was on a prepay meter until last week and had been paying as much

:10:05.:10:14.

as ?40 a weekend on gas bills and Ruslan Tadjev, who runs a small

:10:15.:10:23.

fashion company that helps get young designers get started

:10:24.:10:27.

in the industry. you were paying ?40 a week or

:10:28.:10:32.

weekend? A week. Ruslan employs eight people and is

:10:33.:10:48.

tied into a four-year tariff. Why did you get tied into the four-year

:10:49.:10:52.

tariff? We are Sa small fashion firm. We provide services to the

:10:53.:10:57.

British brands in the fashion industry so we do all the work from

:10:58.:11:04.

the sketch, including sampling, small production rounds and this

:11:05.:11:07.

will involve a lot of equipment that we need to use like sewing machines,

:11:08.:11:13.

irons and lighting equipment. That takes a lot of energy.

:11:14.:11:20.

Our machinery runs right from the morning until the end of the day. We

:11:21.:11:25.

sometimes work weekends because we have to match the Fashion Week's

:11:26.:11:33.

dates. You thought it would be a good deal to sign up for four years

:11:34.:11:38.

or stability or what? The price was the problem because, when we first

:11:39.:11:43.

arrived at the property, we got automatically signed up with the

:11:44.:11:48.

previous supplier and we were not even aware they'd put us on a basic

:11:49.:11:52.

tariff. A few months down the line we just received a huge bill which

:11:53.:11:56.

we had to pay. And you were effectively stuck because it was the

:11:57.:12:00.

four-year thing. When you hear what the competition watchdog is

:12:01.:12:02.

suggesting, that you should be able to get out of a long-term deal more

:12:03.:12:07.

easily, that's got to be good news for you? Yes. For us, it was more

:12:08.:12:11.

important the price because we employ a lot of people and we can't

:12:12.:12:18.

afford to employ more so it costs us jobs as to the garment to pay more

:12:19.:12:23.

bills every month. Andy, you ended up on a prepay metre almost by

:12:24.:12:29.

accident. What happened? It was a strange one. We had a house built in

:12:30.:12:33.

somebody's garden and the gas company refused to believe the house

:12:34.:12:38.

existed so for about four years they wouldn't send us a gas bill.

:12:39.:12:41.

Eventually they came along and gave us a gas bill which was obviously

:12:42.:12:45.

for thousands of pounds, so we set up a payment system with them. They

:12:46.:12:50.

then sold the contract to another company. The other company then came

:12:51.:12:54.

along and said we owed them money and the only way we could pay that

:12:55.:12:59.

back was, they put us on a prepayment gas metre because I

:13:00.:13:03.

refused to pay two companies at the same time. That just escalated for a

:13:04.:13:09.

year and they claimed we weren't paying any debt off at all even

:13:10.:13:13.

though an engineer from the National Grid told us it was showing on the

:13:14.:13:17.

machine. Then they came along and said, you have to pay this quickly

:13:18.:13:21.

now because you haven't paid us for a year. Up until about six weeks

:13:22.:13:27.

ago, we'd put from Friday evening until about Sunday evening, I would

:13:28.:13:32.

put about ?40 worth of gas on which, considering I've got three small

:13:33.:13:35.

children, I can't go without gas, I had to have heating and hot water,

:13:36.:13:40.

and we were just haemorrhaging money on gas. So when you hear this

:13:41.:13:43.

recommendation today that there should be a price cap on everybody

:13:44.:13:50.

who's on a prepayment metre which is often people on lower incomes, how

:13:51.:13:58.

do you react? It It has to be, because the majority are on a low

:13:59.:14:01.

income, they can't move companies. We were stuck with the prepayment

:14:02.:14:05.

metre, we couldn't do anything. The company we were with had a hold over

:14:06.:14:10.

us so we couldn't move to a cheaper tariff. We were just completely

:14:11.:14:15.

stuck and, like I said, they were just taking money off us like it was

:14:16.:14:19.

just ridiculous. We were chatting to other people that had normal gas

:14:20.:14:23.

bills and you were hearing what they were paying compared to what we were

:14:24.:14:27.

paying, do you know what I mean, it was astronomical amounts of money.

:14:28.:14:32.

We had no choice at all. Can I ask you about another recommendation

:14:33.:14:37.

today which is, those people who're on the standard variable tariffs,

:14:38.:14:43.

which are about 70% of consumers outside the prepayment sector who

:14:44.:14:47.

don't switch, they never switch, and if they did, they could probably

:14:48.:14:53.

save themselves ?300-?400 a year. One recommendation is those

:14:54.:14:58.

customers' details will be on a database so rival suppliers will be

:14:59.:15:01.

able to contact them and encourage them to switch which might mean you

:15:02.:15:05.

get lots of e-mails or post or whatever, do you think that's a good

:15:06.:15:11.

idea? I think it is, yes. What about you, Andy? I wouldn't recommend

:15:12.:15:16.

anybody getting phone calls all the time, I know what the companies are

:15:17.:15:19.

like. If you decided you want to swap, fair enough. If you are in the

:15:20.:15:22.

position we were in, obviously I would be looking to get cheaper gas

:15:23.:15:27.

bills, but to allow these companies just to phone people, I wouldn't

:15:28.:15:31.

say, is the best move, to be honest. There might have to be an opt-in or

:15:32.:15:34.

out? Yes, certainly. Thank you very much, Andy, the

:15:35.:15:45.

comment on the programme, and thank you, Ruslan, as well.

:15:46.:15:50.

Think you might have been paying too much and not sure what to do next?

:15:51.:15:56.

You can ask our expert on the BBC News Channel at 11.30am today.

:15:57.:15:59.

He's James Plunkett, Policy Director at Citizens Advice.

:16:00.:16:02.

You can send us your questions using the hashtag #BBCAskThis

:16:03.:16:04.

or you can text your question to 61124.

:16:05.:16:06.

The Sun newspaper says it stands by its story on the Queen's

:16:07.:16:11.

support for an EU exit, which caused the Palace

:16:12.:16:14.

We'll hear from the media commentator Steve Hewlett.

:16:15.:16:20.

And the tragic case of a woman who died after the NHS 111 service

:16:21.:16:23.

cancelled an ambulance that was just one minute away from her home.

:16:24.:16:33.

Four million households with pre-pay gas and electricity meters should

:16:34.:16:45.

get a cap on how much they're charged - that's the call

:16:46.:16:48.

It's unveiled plans to help households get better value

:16:49.:16:51.

for the money they pay for energy, including boosting protection

:16:52.:16:54.

There are some really good deals out there for all of us

:16:55.:16:59.

but about two-thirds of us don't take them.

:17:00.:17:01.

We sit on the default tariff which is about 25-30% more than it

:17:02.:17:04.

Our solution to this is going to be to make it easier for people

:17:05.:17:08.

to switch, better informed, cheaper, much less hassle

:17:09.:17:10.

and we firmly believe that we are well on the way

:17:11.:17:13.

There's been a sharp rise in emergency health service

:17:14.:17:18.

admissions with NHS England reporting record

:17:19.:17:19.

Our health correspondent is here. What do the figures show?

:17:20.:17:33.

It shows that despite appeals for people not to go to A and let it

:17:34.:17:37.

is a serious emergency, the number of attendances in January was up by

:17:38.:17:41.

more than 10% compared with the same month the previous year, which is

:17:42.:17:45.

reflected in delays in A There is a target that 95% of patients should

:17:46.:17:50.

be seen and treated within four hours, in January it was 88.7%, the

:17:51.:17:56.

worst performance ever with data going back to 2004.

:17:57.:17:58.

Thank you very much, Adam. It's the second day of the junior

:17:59.:18:02.

doctors' strike and now NHS England is warning that things are getting

:18:03.:18:05.

more difficult in hospitals. But it insists plans are in place

:18:06.:18:07.

to ensure they can cope. The doctors' union is

:18:08.:18:10.

apologising but claims the walk-out, that ends tomorrow

:18:11.:18:12.

morning, is necessary. This morning sees more scrapping

:18:13.:18:16.

within Government ranks over David Cameron is accusing leave

:18:17.:18:18.

campaigners of thinking the loss of jobs and business

:18:19.:18:23.

is 'a price worth paying'. But they've hit back,

:18:24.:18:25.

saying the remarks are unworthy Here's the sport headlines

:18:26.:18:28.

now with Olly Foster. These are our headlines this

:18:29.:18:34.

morning: Chelsea have been knocked

:18:35.:18:36.

out of the Champions Paris St Germain reaching

:18:37.:18:38.

the quarterfinals at their expense Zlatan Ibrahimovic scored the winner

:18:39.:18:41.

at Stamford Bridge. 2-1 on the night, they went

:18:42.:18:44.

through 4-2 on aggregate. Liverpool will face

:18:45.:18:47.

Manchester United tonight for the first time in

:18:48.:18:48.

European compettion. It's the first leg of their last 16

:18:49.:18:51.

Europa League tie at Anfield. Tottenham are in Germany

:18:52.:18:56.

playing Dortmund. England have named an unchanged team

:18:57.:19:00.

to face Wales in the Six Nations on Saturday, but Manu Tuilagi

:19:01.:19:05.

will be on the bench at Twickenham. The Leicester Centre hasn't played

:19:06.:19:13.

for England in almost two years. Just after Christmas in December

:19:14.:19:16.

2014, 61-year-old Ann Walters from Portsmouth called NHS 111

:19:17.:19:28.

complaining of breathlessness. She explained she had a heart

:19:29.:19:30.

condition and the call handler took the correct decision to ring 999,

:19:31.:19:33.

and an ambulance was dispatched Several minutes later a clinical

:19:34.:19:36.

support desk practitioner for the 111 helpline called

:19:37.:19:40.

Mrs Walters back, and after a two minute conversation with her

:19:41.:19:43.

with cancelled the ambulance which, by that stage,

:19:44.:19:47.

was just 60 seconds away Ten hours later she was found

:19:48.:19:50.

dead in her living room by her son, who had

:19:51.:20:03.

been resting upstairs. Last week an inquest into her death

:20:04.:20:05.

ruled Mrs Walters died An investigation by the South

:20:06.:20:07.

Central Ambulance Service found the clinical desk practitioner

:20:08.:20:11.

for NHS 111 had not picked up on Mrs Walters' critical condition,

:20:12.:20:13.

missing crucial signs. He first told us his story just

:20:14.:20:16.

before last year's general election at our audience debate

:20:17.:20:21.

on the NHS in Southampton. On 28th December at the end

:20:22.:20:31.

of last year, at 6am, I found my mother

:20:32.:20:33.

deceased in the front room. At 6:30am, after dealing

:20:34.:20:36.

with paramedics and the police, I have been visited

:20:37.:20:38.

by an out-of-hours GP who has informed me at 8:20,

:20:39.:20:40.

8:30am in the morning, that my mother had actually called

:20:41.:20:42.

for help to the 111 service. Subsequently, I found out that

:20:43.:20:45.

if you are an operator for 111 you do not need any past

:20:46.:20:48.

qualifications or experience. And the out-of-hours GP at the time,

:20:49.:20:50.

although very polite considering the emotional

:20:51.:20:56.

distress he had walked into, informed me that his care

:20:57.:20:58.

load for that night What are politicians going to do

:20:59.:21:01.

to decrease the workload for an already stressed

:21:02.:21:04.

and exacerbated service? Good morning. You still think this

:21:05.:21:18.

could happen again, while? There is always human error, although the

:21:19.:21:22.

refuse processes have been changed for the Ambulance Service, there is

:21:23.:21:25.

always a part where a human being could make a decision which is

:21:26.:21:29.

incorrect or adverse. But you cannot legislate against that, can you? You

:21:30.:21:33.

can and you can't. Because of the inquest on Thursday there have been

:21:34.:21:37.

new guidelines saying that a call handler can no longer stand down an

:21:38.:21:40.

ambulance, which is affected this year, so there are things in place

:21:41.:21:47.

now on a national level. The particular clinical support desk

:21:48.:21:49.

practitioner said that when he spoke to your mum in that two-minute

:21:50.:21:53.

conversation she said she didn't want an ambulance, she wanted a

:21:54.:21:56.

doctor, and he said your mother was forceful about that. What did you

:21:57.:22:00.

think when you heard that? After hearing that the original 111 call

:22:01.:22:05.

handler had noticed her condition required the supervision of an

:22:06.:22:08.

ambulance or paramedics, it was quite hard to hear that he thought,

:22:09.:22:11.

after just mere moments on the phone, OK, she wants

:22:12.:22:32.

to see a doctor, I will stand the ambulance down. The investigation by

:22:33.:22:36.

the Ambulance Service concerned said that the practitioner did not

:22:37.:22:38.

establish your mother's condition in that very brief conversation, it was

:22:39.:22:40.

not a clinical assessment of her condition, and that he did not

:22:41.:22:42.

demonstrate an understanding of heart failure or ability to pick up

:22:43.:22:45.

significant clues from the patient. What did you think of that? It turns

:22:46.:22:47.

out the clinician in question listened to part of the phone call

:22:48.:22:50.

to the 111 service before it was passed on to 999, so in being able

:22:51.:22:53.

to hear the phone call conversation that the original call handler had

:22:54.:22:55.

escalated to an emergency, I fail to see why he was unable to make an

:22:56.:22:58.

informed decision regarding her help. The investigation found he did

:22:59.:23:02.

not follow the correct procedures, he did not ask the right questions.

:23:03.:23:07.

Heat the hat, the conversation would have lasted a lot longer. And the

:23:08.:23:12.

ambulance would have shown up. -- if he had done. Your mother had a

:23:13.:23:18.

chronic health condition, you knew that, she knew that, she was clearly

:23:19.:23:22.

deteriorating that day. What difference do you think it might

:23:23.:23:26.

have made if the ambulance had gone? I agree with the coroner's

:23:27.:23:30.

conclusion overall that, on the balance of probability, she was on

:23:31.:23:33.

her way out, and we are talking weeks or months, but at the time it

:23:34.:23:39.

would have prolonged her life by a not insignificant amount of time,

:23:40.:23:42.

enough for me and my sister to see her in hospital, just a few more

:23:43.:23:46.

days, and if nothing else would have made her passing easier. There has

:23:47.:23:51.

been retraining at the south-central Ambulance Service. The practitioner

:23:52.:23:57.

concerned has been retrained, was returned to duty I think several

:23:58.:24:01.

months later. They also say they have introduced stringent changes to

:24:02.:24:05.

their 999 clinical support desk procedures which would prevent and

:24:06.:24:09.

events being stood down in similar future circumstances. Is that

:24:10.:24:14.

enough? On balance, it is a step in the right direction, it will enable

:24:15.:24:17.

other people in similar situations to receive the help they need

:24:18.:24:21.

without having to worry about someone standing down the ambulance

:24:22.:24:25.

in such situations, but there is always more that can be done when it

:24:26.:24:36.

comes to people's lives. I know people have made hurtful comments to

:24:37.:24:39.

you because you were in the house at the time, you were upstairs. How do

:24:40.:24:41.

you respond to that? One of the comments in particular I read from

:24:42.:24:44.

an article in the sun, my sister pointed out to me, I find it

:24:45.:24:47.

shocking he was just upstairs. It was not uncommon when I visited my

:24:48.:24:49.

mother for her to leave me alone before I went back to London, so I

:24:50.:24:53.

just thought she was leaving me to it. Having someone say it is

:24:54.:24:57.

shocking that someone is upstairs and she died alone, I have had to

:24:58.:25:00.

come to terms with that myself over the last year, my sister and I, she

:25:01.:25:05.

was helpful and said, she did not want you to see her like that. On

:25:06.:25:09.

balance, I probably would not have wanted to see her like that, but I

:25:10.:25:13.

would not want her to die alone, I would have wanted to be there, so

:25:14.:25:17.

the comments have been hurtful, and I have had to deal with this myself.

:25:18.:25:21.

You are pursuing a civil negligence claim, what do you hope to achieve?

:25:22.:25:25.

Other than being rather annoying to the local Ambulance Service, it is

:25:26.:25:31.

more to cover the costs of the administration probate which have

:25:32.:25:34.

soared beyond belief, and to cover the cost of the funeral. I

:25:35.:25:39.

understand the trust has made financial offer to you but of

:25:40.:25:45.

?5,000? Once the solicitor has their feet, it would not cover the cost of

:25:46.:25:49.

the funeral. So you want them to come back... I'm not too fussed

:25:50.:25:54.

about how much money it is, so long as everything is wrapped up. Thank

:25:55.:26:00.

you very much for coming on the programme. No worries, Victoria, it

:26:01.:26:02.

is a pleasure to see you again. The South Central Ambulance Service

:26:03.:26:05.

NHS Foundation Trust told us: They accept the coroner's conclusion

:26:06.:26:17.

and would like to take this opportunity to say how sorry they

:26:18.:26:20.

are. The original call was answered by the NHS one-on-one service. --

:26:21.:26:27.

111 service. Following an assessment the NHS 111

:26:28.:26:28.

call handler decided that an ambulance attendance would be

:26:29.:26:30.

appropriate and therefore the call The patient was further assessed

:26:31.:26:33.

by our Clinical Support Desk and in line with the patient's

:26:34.:26:37.

wishes the clinician passed the call to the Out of Hours provider to make

:26:38.:26:40.

contact with the patient Subsequently we received a 999 call

:26:41.:26:42.

to attend the patient several hours The Trust has undertaken

:26:43.:26:46.

an extensive investigation into this case

:26:47.:26:55.

and has introduced stringent changes to its 999

:26:56.:26:56.

clinical support desk procedures which would prevent an ambulance

:26:57.:26:58.

being stood down in similar The editor of the sun is backing his

:26:59.:27:11.

article yesterday saying that the Queen backs exit from the European

:27:12.:27:14.

Union. It would alter that the Queen expressed strong anti-EU views to

:27:15.:27:20.

the former deputy premises to Nick Clegg.

:27:21.:27:25.

Multiple sources, two sources, to be precise, came to us with information

:27:26.:27:28.

about the Queen and her views on the EU, and we would have been derelict

:27:29.:27:32.

in our duty if we did not put them in a paper, simple as that. The fact

:27:33.:27:36.

that the story is inconvenient for a good number of people is not my

:27:37.:27:39.

fault. We serve our readers and not the elite who might be upset at what

:27:40.:27:42.

we have written. Steve Hewlett is present of The

:27:43.:27:49.

Media Show on Radio 4. He is emphatic in the Dubuque, the story

:27:50.:27:52.

is true, the headline was not in accurate? -- emphatic in his

:27:53.:27:58.

interview. The story may be true, the Palace are not complaining about

:27:59.:28:02.

the story. As a matter of protocol they never comment on the green's

:28:03.:28:06.

Private conversations, of which she has many. I have met her a couple of

:28:07.:28:11.

times, never in this sort of situation, but people who have say

:28:12.:28:15.

she is far from a shrinking violet, she is a doughty interrogator, she

:28:16.:28:19.

knows what she thinks, she has been around, so people come out of these

:28:20.:28:23.

lunches thinking, blimey, what has happened here? She is not lacking in

:28:24.:28:27.

opinion or inside, she has been around a long time. The Palace, as a

:28:28.:28:34.

matter of protocol, never, on private conversations, not so much

:28:35.:28:36.

because they don't think people have the right to know but because, as

:28:37.:28:40.

the moderate in a constitutional monarchy, if those things come into

:28:41.:28:44.

the public domain, the institution is potentially undermined, so that

:28:45.:28:47.

is their protocol. There is no reason why the Sun should accept

:28:48.:28:50.

that, they are a newspaper, they are there to tell us what is what, but

:28:51.:28:54.

what it means is they are not complaining about the substance of

:28:55.:29:00.

the article, they are not going to seek to contradict what the Sun says

:29:01.:29:07.

she said. But if you luck, the son's claimed today that a non-denial

:29:08.:29:10.

amounts to confirmation, it is wide of the mark because the Palace would

:29:11.:29:15.

not deny or confirm, they will never comment. They will be complaining

:29:16.:29:18.

about the headline, and the question is whether what is in the article

:29:19.:29:23.

supports the headline. I have read the article many times, and you can

:29:24.:29:28.

look as high and low, you will find no suggestion from anybody that what

:29:29.:29:32.

the Queen actually said was, I'd back Brexit. The main meeting

:29:33.:29:37.

referred to happened in 2011, the term Brexit would not have been

:29:38.:29:40.

invented at the time. What they claim she said, and let's assume

:29:41.:29:46.

this is true, the Sun said they have double sources, let's accept that.

:29:47.:29:51.

The EU is going in the wrong direction, she says, David Cameron

:29:52.:29:54.

says that, he is on the inside. She says, I don't understand Europe.

:29:55.:30:00.

Many people have said that, you can follow it with, so, let's get out,

:30:01.:30:04.

all, let's stay in and fix it. The question will be, does the headline,

:30:05.:30:09.

is it supported by the facts? The complaint they have made is under

:30:10.:30:14.

section one of the editor's code. It says, entitled accuracy: The press

:30:15.:30:20.

must take care not to publish inaccurate, misleading or distorted

:30:21.:30:23.

information or images, including, and this is the key bit, headline is

:30:24.:30:28.

not supported by the text. So the Palace are not complaining about the

:30:29.:30:31.

substance, they are complaining about the headline, and the question

:30:32.:30:35.

is, do the Sun have anything to support the headline? Mr Gallagher,

:30:36.:30:40.

on the radio this morning, was clear that the headline was accurate.

:30:41.:30:45.

Well, he said a couple of things. He said, we know but more than be

:30:46.:30:49.

published, although if you have the Queen saying, I think we should

:30:50.:30:53.

leave the EU, in anything like those terms, I don't see why he would hold

:30:54.:30:56.

it back, I think you would put it in. I don't know what else they have

:30:57.:31:00.

got. It maybe they have more substantiation for what they claim

:31:01.:31:04.

she has said. They are not quite claiming she said this, that is the

:31:05.:31:11.

point. When asked repeatedly on the Today programme this morning, in the

:31:12.:31:15.

end he said, it is semantics, it is semantics. If you get to that point,

:31:16.:31:19.

I think they might have more of a problem than they are acknowledging.

:31:20.:31:23.

The other thing to bear in mind is the timing, it is unusual for the

:31:24.:31:27.

Palace to make a complaint to the price regulator, it so. The timing

:31:28.:31:31.

of these things, in theory, the parties get 28 days to resolve

:31:32.:31:35.

themselves, but that will not happen, we don't have to wait 28

:31:36.:31:47.

days to find that out. IPSO would say they would like to complete this

:31:48.:31:50.

in about 30 days, I don't think they have managed that, one complaint

:31:51.:31:52.

they are sitting at the moment, a story about one in five Muslims

:31:53.:31:54.

supporting extremism, published last November in the sun, I think the

:31:55.:31:57.

adjudication might be next week or the week after, which is about three

:31:58.:32:01.

months. The best advice or guidance is two months on this complaint,

:32:02.:32:04.

which puts it in the middle of May. You know what is happening then,

:32:05.:32:09.

don't you?! Local elections around the UK, and in June of course we

:32:10.:32:13.

have the EU referendum. It will come out after that? Right in the middle

:32:14.:32:18.

of the campaign. In political terms, then what happens, people who liked

:32:19.:32:25.

the monarchy, many people adore the Queen, do understand that she has a

:32:26.:32:29.

special position, not that she has no personal views at all but they

:32:30.:32:33.

should not be expressed in public, and if they are it undermines the

:32:34.:32:37.

institution. It is not at all clear, even if she did support Brexit,

:32:38.:32:41.

bringing her into the row in this way may not work for Brexit

:32:42.:32:45.

supporters, many of them might say, this is the wrong way to do is the

:32:46.:32:49.

Queen. Thank you, we will see when that adjudication comes out.

:32:50.:32:59.

Here are some comments from you about MPs' pay. 1.3% coming after a

:33:00.:33:10.

10% pay rise. Clive Lewis donated his ?7,000 to various community

:33:11.:33:14.

projects and charity. This year he says he's taking the 1.3% despite

:33:15.:33:19.

the fact it's above what public sector workers are getting. Emma

:33:20.:33:23.

says, I'm on a 0 hours contract, haven't had a pay rise for five

:33:24.:33:27.

years and make less than ?22,000 a year. How are MPs justifying two pay

:33:28.:33:33.

rises in less than 12 months, I don't get sick pay, benefits, four

:33:34.:33:37.

months or three weeks off over the summer or Christmas. Another pay

:33:38.:33:42.

rise for MPs is an insult. Simon tweets this; those donating part of

:33:43.:33:46.

their salary are doing it foul coarses do and out of uncomfortable

:33:47.:33:50.

embarrassment, no-one turns down a pay rise. Jean says what about

:33:51.:33:55.

pensioners, doctors, nurses, teachers, are we living on the same

:33:56.:33:59.

planet. We have people sleeping rough, food banks and pay cuts. MPs

:34:00.:34:02.

turn a blind eye to everything. Disgraceful. Adrian says MPs are

:34:03.:34:08.

damned if they do, damned if they don't. We complained when they were

:34:09.:34:13.

in charge of their own pay, now an independent body is in charge of it,

:34:14.:34:20.

we complain again, we can't have it both ways.

:34:21.:34:26.

Keep your comments coming in, although it's 10. 48. Off few

:34:27.:34:34.

minutes to send me a message on Twitter. I'll read them all.

:34:35.:34:39.

Madonna's former husband Guy Ritchie is expected in court today as part

:34:40.:34:42.

of a bitter custody battle over their son Rocco.

:34:43.:34:44.

The couple divorced in 2008 and agreed their son would live

:34:45.:34:47.

But Rocco has been living with his father in London since December.

:34:48.:34:53.

A US judge has already ruled Rocco must return to live with his mum

:34:54.:34:56.

but for the time being he's refusing to leave his dad.

:34:57.:34:59.

The singer, who's currently on the Asian leg of her world tour,

:35:00.:35:02.

To talk more about that is our entertainment correspondent Mark

:35:03.:35:41.

What is the latest hearing to try and sort then? From what we

:35:42.:35:54.

understand, last week Madonna and Guy Ritchie had come to some sort of

:35:55.:35:57.

agreement and they were going to present that at the High Court in

:35:58.:36:00.

London but it fell apart right at the last minute. The hope is today

:36:01.:36:04.

that that will have been patched up, that some more evidence will be

:36:05.:36:08.

presented and that the situation with Rocco will be resolved.

:36:09.:36:12.

As I said, the American judge said that he has to return to his mother.

:36:13.:36:17.

When we say resolve, could it mean he ends up staying in London with

:36:18.:36:20.

his father? We are not entirely sure. There's going to be a lot more

:36:21.:36:24.

evidence presented today. It's thought we'll hear maybe not in

:36:25.:36:27.

person but get some evidence from Rocco himself. The problem with the

:36:28.:36:31.

New York court hearing was the judge said Rocco should return to his

:36:32.:36:35.

mother but she couldn't compel Guy and Rocco to come to New York to

:36:36.:36:40.

have the order enforced. Madonna's lawyers said Richie should be

:36:41.:36:44.

compelled to attend the court under contempt of court laws but she said

:36:45.:36:48.

that was out of order, she said there was tremendous pressure on

:36:49.:36:51.

Rocco and that it really was up to the family to resolve this

:36:52.:36:56.

ammicicallibly. Madonna filed a petition to have the case moved to

:36:57.:37:00.

London which is what is happening now, but the judge said the same

:37:01.:37:03.

thing, that this is a private matter, shouldn't be played out in

:37:04.:37:07.

public, and that, for the best interests of the 15-year-old boy,

:37:08.:37:11.

the two entertainers should try and put their differences aside and

:37:12.:37:16.

settle the case. Difficult to get into the mind of

:37:17.:37:20.

any of them but the judge has said, please sort this out privately. We

:37:21.:37:25.

have had a couple of occasions recently, where Madonna is crying on

:37:26.:37:28.

stage. On Mother's Day, she dedicated one of her songs to Rocco.

:37:29.:37:34.

She's not keeping this private? No. I mean, if you read the press, it

:37:35.:37:38.

sounds like she's breaking down in tears the every night and posting

:37:39.:37:42.

messages to Instagram and Twitter. They are slightly more sporadic than

:37:43.:37:46.

that. Obviously it's very distressing for any mother if their

:37:47.:37:50.

son leaves or is taken away and Madonna is the sort of person who

:37:51.:37:54.

notoriously wears her hash on her sleeve. Before this started, she was

:37:55.:37:58.

dedicating songs to Rocco in concert. Last September, she talked

:37:59.:38:01.

to an audience in New York about the fact that they had had a falling out

:38:02.:38:07.

that, sometimes he talked back to huh, but then she dedicated the

:38:08.:38:13.

song, Rebel Heart, to him and said we are exactly alike. We don't know

:38:14.:38:18.

exactly what is going on, but I think perhaps some of her head

:38:19.:38:22.

strong nature has transferred to her children and when you are a

:38:23.:38:25.

teenager, clashes happen. But when you are a teenager, normal teenagers

:38:26.:38:30.

who are the children of famous global stars, they are embarrassed

:38:31.:38:34.

by their parents. If you are, you know, the child of a famous person,

:38:35.:38:42.

you might not want this constant referencing in public necessarily?

:38:43.:38:46.

No, absolutely. Although I think if you look further back, before this

:38:47.:38:51.

all started on Madonna's social media and on Rocco's social media

:38:52.:38:56.

which he's now deleted, there are plenty of videos of them both

:38:57.:39:01.

singing Pink Floyd songs, he was working on the tour before they

:39:02.:39:05.

left. They had a very close relationship, clearly something's

:39:06.:39:08.

happened, the press speculated it was a spat over a mobile phone,

:39:09.:39:13.

Madonna took the phone away from him and he fled, but we don't know any

:39:14.:39:16.

of that. Sometimes these things happen and they get resolved

:39:17.:39:22.

sometimes. When I was 15, I didn't have the resources to fly to another

:39:23.:39:27.

country, but maybe that's just one of the things that gets thrown up

:39:28.:39:30.

when you are the child of a superstar. Thank you very much,

:39:31.:39:32.

Mark. Thousands of documents have turned

:39:33.:39:59.

up relating to Islamic state. What are the German authorities saying?

:40:00.:40:02.

They are taking this seriously and say as far as they are concerned

:40:03.:40:05.

they are working on the assumption that the documents are genuine and,

:40:06.:40:09.

in the words of one security expert, these are a gold mine for

:40:10.:40:14.

counterterror police officers because the documents purport to be

:40:15.:40:18.

recruitment questionnaires, so when someone tries to join IS, he or she

:40:19.:40:23.

fills out a questionnaire with details like, name by which they

:40:24.:40:26.

would like to be known, the place that they have been living, family

:40:27.:40:30.

defails, contact details, the people who've got them to Iraq or Syria in

:40:31.:40:34.

the first place, so a huge amount of information. This has all been

:40:35.:40:39.

received by the German Security Services with real gratitude I

:40:40.:40:42.

suspect, although they were already examining documents of this ilk,

:40:43.:40:46.

they say. In a statement this morning, the country's Interior

:40:47.:40:50.

Minister has said that not only will these documents enable them to

:40:51.:40:53.

identify certainly Germans who've gone overseas to fight, but that

:40:54.:40:57.

they'll really provide evidence with which they can actually secure

:40:58.:41:02.

convictions, put some of these people behind bars, as well as

:41:03.:41:05.

providing a real picture, of course, of the structure of this

:41:06.:41:09.

organisation. So being taken very, very seriously indeed here in

:41:10.:41:14.

Germany. So what will be their next move then with this information

:41:15.:41:16.

specifically? I think we have to bear in mind that

:41:17.:41:20.

the authorities here have been working on documents like this

:41:21.:41:25.

already. One can only presume that the amount of information now

:41:26.:41:28.

meaners this going to have to start going through more of the documents

:41:29.:41:33.

and presumably they'll start being able to take action against some of

:41:34.:41:37.

these individuals, although it's early days and the details were

:41:38.:41:41.

getting through about this level of documentation are still very

:41:42.:41:45.

sketchy. There's a lot of work ahead clearly for the Security Services

:41:46.:41:50.

here. Any clue as to how, where this information has come from,

:41:51.:41:56.

specifically? Interestingly, it came via an

:41:57.:41:58.

organisation in the German press, it's a number of people from

:41:59.:42:04.

different media outlet who is got together, saying they were

:42:05.:42:07.

approached by a disgruntled former IS fighter who offered them a memory

:42:08.:42:12.

stick containing these documents. They turned him down, they say he

:42:13.:42:15.

asked for too much money and they themselves went out to Iraq and

:42:16.:42:20.

Syria and so on and through their contacts there, managed to obtain

:42:21.:42:23.

the documents. It's interesting, we have not been able to confirm this,

:42:24.:42:27.

but they say that this kind of information is two a penny on the

:42:28.:42:30.

streets and that they were able, with relative ease, to gain access

:42:31.:42:35.

to these documents. I think it's significant the Security Services

:42:36.:42:38.

here are taking it seriously. That lends of course, it an authenticity

:42:39.:42:43.

which otherwise might be questionable, given how easily these

:42:44.:42:46.

people say they were able to access the information. A lot of work

:42:47.:42:49.

ahead, certainly. Thank you very much. Breaking news before the end

:42:50.:42:56.

of the programme: The MP David Lammy has been fined ?5,000 by the

:42:57.:43:06.

Information Commissioner for instigating 35,629 nuisance calls

:43:07.:43:10.

over two days urging people to back his campaign to be London Mayor.

:43:11.:43:15.

Wow. That's a lot of calls in two days. He's been fined ?5,000 by the

:43:16.:43:22.

Information Commissioner for tens of thousands of nuisance calls over a

:43:23.:43:26.

couple of days urging people to back his campaign to be London Mayor.

:43:27.:43:31.

You can watch all our films online. Have a good day. See you tomorrow,

:43:32.:43:42.

back atlet 9. 15. Bye.

:43:43.:43:45.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS