17/03/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


17/03/2016

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Hello it's Thursday, it's 9.15, I'm Joanna Gosling in for Victoria,

:00:00.:00:08.

The television magician Paul Daniels has died at the age of 77

:00:09.:00:14.

after being diagnosed with a brain tumour.

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We'll bring you memories of Paul throughout the programme; do get

:00:28.:00:30.

Also this morning: A promise to balance the books by 2020,

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but do Chancellor George Osborne's sums add up?

:00:37.:00:39.

His budget will be closely looked at by experts today.

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What I'm saying in this budget is we have got to hold to the cause that

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we have set out. We have to take action on the public finances sothat

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we are stable and secure and don't pay later and we've got to back

:00:55.:00:59.

small businesses, the self-employed, working people, by cutting their

:01:00.:01:02.

taxes and helping our economy to grow.

:01:03.:01:04.

As he confirms the outlook for our economy isn't as healthy

:01:05.:01:07.

as he thought we'll ask our panel how confident they feel

:01:08.:01:09.

The doctor who has acted as an expert witness for parents

:01:10.:01:16.

accused of killing of harming their children will find out today

:01:17.:01:19.

if her fitness to practise has been impaired.

:01:20.:01:21.

She tell us she's not prepared for losing her job.

:01:22.:01:27.

It's completely devastating. This reflects on 23 32 years as a

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paediatric neuropathologist. I think unblemished many, many publications

:01:38.:01:40.

in the scientific literature and to have that come to an end in this way

:01:41.:01:43.

is terribly, terribly painful. Also ahead, pet owners convicted

:01:44.:01:46.

of dangerous dogs will face harsher punishments under new sentencing

:01:47.:01:49.

guidelines in England and Wales. We speak to one woman

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attacked and badly hurt She tells us new sentences

:02:00.:02:02.

won't make any difference. Welcome this morning. We want to

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hear from you on everything we are talking about today. You can get in

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touch in the usual ways. If you text, you will be charged at

:02:29.:02:32.

standard network rate and you can watch the programme online wherever

:02:33.:02:33.

you are. First this morning,

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the magician and comedian Paul Daniels has died

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after being diagnosed He had his own magic show on the BBC

:02:42.:02:44.

which ran for 15 years. He was at his Berkshire home

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with his wife Debbie when he died Nick Higham looks back at his life:

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Hello, welcome to the programme, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC

:02:55.:02:59.

News Channel until 11 this morning. He took old-fashioned

:03:00.:03:04.

magic and re-fashioned it He became a fixture

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in the Saturday night schedules. He'd started in northern clubs,

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combining magic with a chirpy, One, two, out the way,

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you are not supposed to go slow. He devised a catch phrase

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to deal with hecklers. As Maureen, Debbie and Bobby go

:03:29.:03:30.

inside the tent, the tent Some of his illusions

:03:31.:03:39.

were staggerings, like making an elephant disappear

:03:40.:03:47.

in the middle of a field. Welcome your host on

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Wipeout, Paul Daniels... For 20 years, he was one of the most

:03:50.:03:54.

popular entertainers. And made guest appearances

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in programmes like Strictly Come Oh, sorry, love, I thought

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you were ready for bed. What first attracted

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you to the millionaire Paul He was famous for his toupe and for

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his marriage to Debby Magee which amused many people.

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What first attracted you to the millionaire Paul

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The couple seemed genuinely happy together.

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Paul Daniels could be chippy and some thought him smug.

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He fell out with BBC managers who dropped his show in the 90s,

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but there was no doubting his popularity.

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Paul Daniels. Let's talk to Lizo Mzimba, he was big on the small

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screen at a time when success meant massive fame? Absolutely.

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Particularly in the 80s, looking back at some of the clips we have

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been looking at reminds you of how popular he was. There were people

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out there who were great magicians with sleight of hand et cetera and

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there were people out there who we are great entertainers, he could

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combine both and that's what made him into such a star. He learnt the

:05:29.:05:34.

skills from an early age and he was almost a half comedian, half

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magician working with people in clubs, then at TV he knew

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instinctively how to work with the camera with the audience at home.

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With fast patter, he combined those things into becoming one of this

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great magicians and entertainers. The broadcasters recognised that, so

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he did the shows like Every Second Counts, because he had an incredible

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amount of charisma in front of him. You saw his patter, that kind of

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machine-gun sticato patter, he was one of the greats and was so popular

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for so long. Although this news has been expected for the last few

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weeks, still so very sad for so many people. We are going to talk to

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Graham Howe, organiser of the War Grave Festival of which Paul Daniels

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was a supporter. It's a please sure to be on and Paul was a great

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contributor to our community and we are delighted to pay tribute to him.

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What sort of things did he do? The War Great Festival is a biannual

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festival with 40 events over two weeks. From the very first time that

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Debbie and Paul got involved, they'd been joining in, whether it's

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joining in the parade and coming to events, they put on a magic show for

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the RNLI and they also helped us get a number of events moving with the

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theatre workshop and doing an event which was Strictly Come Dancing

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where they came along as judges. They were always very generous with

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their time, both Paul and Debbie and were very good at giving us advice

:07:31.:07:34.

in running the events. Of course, he didn't have to do that, is that a

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measure of the man you knew? Indeed. When we were in his house one day

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talking about his magic show, of course we were the amateurs and he

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was the professional, so there was a lot of things we didn't know or

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mistakes that we were making. He was very good at putting us right

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without us feeling that we were doing it badly. He was very

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professional in his approach but equally, we'd see them in the local

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pub and they would just join in as normal human beings even though he

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was a worldwide celebrity. How will you remember him? As a kind,

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generous man and, actually, what you saw is what you got.

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Thank you, thank you very much for joining us Graham Howe. Lots of

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reaction coming through on Twitter. Keith Chegwin, TV presenter says,

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we've lost a lovely, kind and magic man, lover you and thinking of you,

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I shall miss you a lot. Paul Chuckle from the Chuckle Brothers said to

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hear of the death of Paul Daniels, RIP, thoughts with the family.er

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Darren Day, RIP, God bless, thoughts with his family and friends. He was

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a nice man. Arlene Phillips says, sorry to hear of the death of Paul

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Daniels my dhawingts are with you. Graham texted to say sorry to hear

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the news, he was very much part of the '80s era I grew up in. My heart

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felt regards and sympathy to Debbie and the family. A text, very sad

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news hearing about Paul Daniels, a member of the magic circle for many

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years, thoughts with Debbie, he'll be missed. John on by thor, a

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cheerful man, we need more people like that in this overpoliced

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miserable world now. Let us know how you will remember

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Paul Dan yeses and we'll have much more throughout the programme --

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Paul Daniels. The fine detail of the budget

:09:32.:09:34.

will come under increasing scrutiny today after the Chancellor's promise

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to get the government books back It is that promise that will be

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examined closely by money experts at the Institute for Fiscal Studies

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who will reveal their verdict today. Although George Osborne gave

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warnings about the risks the economy faces there were give aways

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and promises, declaring his budget was one that 'puts the next

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generation first'. Let's recap the headlines;

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the budget started withthe bad news. Growth forecasts for the UK economy

:09:57.:10:01.

have been revised down markedly for the next five yearswith more

:10:02.:10:05.

cuts planned to help The surprise one, a tax on sugary

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drinks followed by tax cuts for small businesses; a raising

:10:09.:10:25.

of the tax free personal allowance,fuel duty to be frozen

:10:26.:10:28.

for the sixth consecutive year; Earlier George Osborne defended

:10:29.:10:36.

the move to cut benefits for disabled people insisting,

:10:37.:10:38.

in fact, they would get more We are increasing the money

:10:39.:10:47.

available to young people. That money will go up as a budget, so we

:10:48.:10:51.

have to make sure we help the most vulnerable in society and we are

:10:52.:10:55.

responding to an independent report, it wasn't as part of the budget, we

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did this last week, and the Work and Pensions department is saying, what

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can we do to make sure this disability benefit is focussed on

:11:03.:11:05.

those who need our help most but it's a rising budget, it's not a

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falling budget, and you can only afford to do that, you can only

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afford to help disabled people, you can only afford to invest in schools

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like the great school I'm in here in West Yorkshire, if you have that

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growing economy and businesses are succeeding and small businesses are

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growing and the self-employed person is watching a programme and is about

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to go out to work knows that they have the Government on their side.

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That's what the budget set out to do.

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You've been telling us what you think of the Chancellor's

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new budget, from the sugar tax to the new lifetime ISA.

:11:38.:11:48.

We will introduce a new sugar levy on the soft drinks industry.

:11:49.:12:03.

I have a four-month-old baby, so I was really pleased to hear

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the Government was going to be introducing a tax on sugary drinks.

:12:10.:12:12.

People who like Coke are going to drink Coke.

:12:13.:12:14.

That's how I lost my teeth, it is all fake.

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I think the sugar tax sends a very good signal that more

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sugar, but I worry that it's too easy to get round.

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I think that education is a far more effective and important way

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This is a budget for the next generation.

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effect as the tax allowance goes higher #

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I think one of the biggest and best moments of the budget was definitely

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As the father of a 20-year-old daughter, I am really pleased

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As good as it is that I can have this lifetime ISA,

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I won't have anything to put into it.

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Many people have to choose between food and transport,

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Well, that was a very interesting budget.

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Let's get the thoughts of nay Shand Smith, a 21-year-old apprentice from

:13:15.:13:22.

Limington. Emily Hodgson is a drama

:13:23.:13:30.

teacher and actress living in London Sarah Stewart

:13:31.:13:33.

is from Guildford. She receives Personal Independence

:13:34.:13:35.

Allowance after having to give up Chris Pockett is from

:13:36.:13:37.

a Gloucestershire based company called Renishaw - they manufacture

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precision measuring equipment used Nathan, what do you think? They have

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raised the apprenticeship wage. I'm doing a technical certificate

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apprenticeship which means my wage is higher, but for new people coming

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in, it's a very good positive for having no skills and they are

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getting paid to be taught new skills which is really good. What will that

:14:05.:14:08.

wage increase mean for you? Well, because I'm doing a technical

:14:09.:14:13.

certificate, it doesn't affect me, but for new people coming up, it

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will affect them to help them get on to earning money and getting a job.

:14:20.:14:25.

Chris, you work for a manufacturing business, what does something like

:14:26.:14:30.

that mean for a company like yours? Apprenticeships are incredibly

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important for the future of our business. The budget was billed very

:14:34.:14:37.

much as about the future. There are a number of things that help us as a

:14:38.:14:43.

manufacturer within that. It was fairly neutral, nothing really

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specific for manufacturing but the reduction in corporation tax down to

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17%, we are already seeing reductions ahead of that. That

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enables manufacturers to invest more in productivity, to make decisions

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using their own money, it's better to retain the money we earn and to

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spend it as we see fit. We'll spend it wisely. We invest in production

:15:07.:15:12.

process and innovation and in people and apprenticeships are one of

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those, we have 120 apprentices in training, we are recruiting 45 this

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year, so being able to retain more of our profits and invest for the

:15:21.:15:25.

future is important and enables more manufacturers that we supply

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globally to up skill their staff to invest in new technology, to improve

:15:30.:15:33.

productivity. That was mentioned yesterday. I wanted to ask you

:15:34.:15:37.

specifically about productivity because you have said you want to

:15:38.:15:42.

invest more in productivity. The Chancellor has downgraded the

:15:43.:15:46.

productivity or the productivity forecasts have been downgraded since

:15:47.:15:51.

November. Tell us what that means for people that keep hearing this

:15:52.:15:54.

word productivity and don't know what it means on the ground, so for

:15:55.:15:56.

a business like yours? It is making sure that for every

:15:57.:16:05.

unit of money that you put into your business, that you are getting a

:16:06.:16:09.

much better return in terms of out put from your manufacturing process

:16:10.:16:14.

and therefore products you can sell, there is an excellent opportunity

:16:15.:16:19.

next month, in Birmingham at the NEC, the yuc's largest industrial

:16:20.:16:24.

show, where there is round 600 exhibitors exhibiting the latest

:16:25.:16:27.

technology where companies can take advantage of low interest rates to

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invest for the future, and to improve their productivity, using

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products like ours but others in our sector as well. Emily you are a

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self-employed actress and drama teacher, you are under ho so you

:16:42.:16:48.

qualify for this new savings lifetime ice sacks how do you see it

:16:49.:16:53.

affecting you? That is a very good thing, I would look for that being

:16:54.:16:57.

self-employed I don't a pay into pensions, so if there is the

:16:58.:17:00.

possibility for me to pay into something and have that, obviously,

:17:01.:17:05.

it is there, if I can't access it until I am much older but it would

:17:06.:17:09.

be benefit to me. Do you have the spare income to do that? Not a the

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moment, that is something I would look for in future, I don't know if

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that is something we have to start immediately. I don't know the

:17:17.:17:20.

conditions of this, so that is something I would look into, so that

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would be beneficial, so it is difficult to comprehend that.

:17:28.:17:30.

Anything else in the budget you think will materially affect you? I

:17:31.:17:37.

think the Crossrail 2 is a huge asset for anybody living in London,

:17:38.:17:41.

because the commuter trains constantly are being a real problem,

:17:42.:17:46.

something that lives in north London and commuting, because I am

:17:47.:17:49.

freelance, I do lots of travel so that would be brilliant. Let us

:17:50.:17:58.

bring in Sarah Stewart. You get the PIP, the incapacity payment, changes

:17:59.:18:03.

have been announced, cut have been announced, us what your situation is

:18:04.:18:08.

at the moment and will it will be affected by the budget? Yes, I will

:18:09.:18:13.

be affected by the budget, after of next year I won't qualify for the

:18:14.:18:18.

PIP daily care part, because they are reducing the point scheme, which

:18:19.:18:25.

leave us with just my ESA coming in, so it's a big change. I called it

:18:26.:18:30.

incapacity payment, it is independence payments, so when you

:18:31.:18:34.

say it will be a big change, what change will that make to you on a

:18:35.:18:39.

day-to-day basis, do you think? Well, it's like having the

:18:40.:18:44.

additional costs from being disabled, like needing automatic

:18:45.:18:50.

car, to extra heating, prescription, I don't get free prescriptions, so

:18:51.:18:55.

just losing that money will have a knock-on effect. Is there anything

:18:56.:18:59.

else in the budget that will directly affect you, do you think?

:19:00.:19:06.

To be honest, I haven't really looked that far into it. I got as

:19:07.:19:14.

far as... INAUDIBLE. It is very depressing and demoralise, it, yes.

:19:15.:19:22.

Why do you feel that way? It is just the constant pressure, the

:19:23.:19:26.

assessments, the rigmarole, I went through a court case, to win my PIP,

:19:27.:19:31.

and now next year I will be losing it, and it is just, like I say, it

:19:32.:19:38.

is constant barrage of assessments and needing to prove how disabled

:19:39.:19:45.

you are, to somebody over a desk. Chris, as a businessman, how do you

:19:46.:19:49.

feel about the future? The Chancellor talked of storm clouds

:19:50.:19:53.

gathering and the various growth forecasts being downgraded, do you

:19:54.:19:57.

feel like the picture has changed since November? We are a global

:19:58.:20:03.

business, so 95% of our sales are actually exports, so we are, our

:20:04.:20:08.

largest markets are China, USA and Japan and Germany. The UK only

:20:09.:20:11.

represents 5% of our business, what we are seeing in the UK, the

:20:12.:20:17.

companies we are supplying to are doing very well. Significant

:20:18.:20:21.

investment, significant growth in their sectors so there is hope here,

:20:22.:20:25.

with some of the things I have mentioned, reduction in corps

:20:26.:20:29.

co-ration tax, what that means is we can retain that money, invest for

:20:30.:20:34.

the future and create more wealth because fundamentally there is only

:20:35.:20:38.

three-ways to create it, dig it out of the ground, you grow it or you

:20:39.:20:43.

make thing, and that is what we as a manufacturer do, we will therefore

:20:44.:20:46.

recruit more people, we have doubled or staff in the last few year, we

:20:47.:20:52.

have gone from 1200 to 2700 over the last six year, so and those people

:20:53.:20:56.

pay tax, we pay more corporation tax, so you know, from the

:20:57.:20:59.

manufacturing sector, generally things are good and those of us

:21:00.:21:03.

exporting are still doing well. Thank you all very much. Chris,

:21:04.:21:07.

Nathan, Emily and Sarah. Manufacture Let us know what you think, and you

:21:08.:21:14.

can keep up-to-date online with our budget live update tsds and the key

:21:15.:21:16.

points. -- updates.

:21:17.:21:25.

More tributes to Paul Daniels who has died today at the age of 77.

:21:26.:21:34.

We will have much more coming up. Also still to come, the doctor who

:21:35.:21:39.

has acted as an expert witness for parents accused of killing or

:21:40.:21:47.

harming their children, we find out if a fitness to practise has been

:21:48.:21:52.

put in place. She says she is not prepared for losing her job.

:21:53.:22:04.

The magician and comedian, Paul Daniels, has died

:22:05.:22:06.

He became one of the biggest stars on television during the eighties,

:22:07.:22:10.

thanks to 'The Paul Daniels Magic Show', which he presented

:22:11.:22:12.

alongside his wife, and glamorous assistant,

:22:13.:22:14.

He announced earlier this year that he had an incurable brain

:22:15.:22:17.

The Chancellor George Osborne has told the BBC he remains confident

:22:18.:22:21.

that UK public finances will be back in surplus by 2020.

:22:22.:22:24.

He's defended the decisions made in yesterday's budget,

:22:25.:22:26.

in which he announced higher public borrowing ahead -

:22:27.:22:28.

citing the slowing UK economy and global economic jitters.

:22:29.:22:30.

MPs will debate Mr Osborne's plans in parliament later.

:22:31.:22:42.

Is have set out the plans and then a end body the Office for Budget

:22:43.:22:48.

Responsibility has lobbed at the plans and says if you hold to the

:22:49.:22:53.

course, if you deliver those plan, if the economy grows as expected

:22:54.:22:56.

then we will have a surplus towards the end of the

:22:57.:22:59.

Parliament David Cameron travels to Brussels

:23:00.:23:02.

today for more talks He'll attend a summit of EU leaders,

:23:03.:23:05.

which is set to be dominated by a proposed deal with Turkey,

:23:06.:23:09.

amid warnings that Greece is becoming a refugee camp

:23:10.:23:11.

for the rest of Europe. The number of migrants waiting

:23:12.:23:13.

at the Greece-Macedonia border The Kurdish militant group TAK has

:23:14.:23:16.

claimed responsibility for Sunday's terror attack in the Turkish

:23:17.:23:19.

capital, that killed 37 people. In an online statement,

:23:20.:23:21.

the group said the bombing in Ankara was revenge for military operations

:23:22.:23:24.

carried out by Turkey in Kurdish Owners of dangerous dogs will face

:23:25.:23:27.

harsher sentences if the animals have been deliberately

:23:28.:23:36.

trained to be aggressive, under new sentencing guidelines

:23:37.:23:38.

in England and Wales. It comes after a number of changes

:23:39.:23:40.

to the law including a new offence those plan, if the economy grows as

:23:41.:23:55.

expected then we will have a surplus towards the end of the

:23:56.:23:58.

Parliament Cliff Mitchell more has died at the age of 96. Best known as

:23:59.:24:07.

the host of Tonight he covers events including the Apollo Monday

:24:08.:24:12.

landings. Tony Hall said he was an outstanding broadcaster.

:24:13.:24:14.

To the sport now with Will Perry; and Will, Arsenal's season isn't

:24:15.:24:17.

Good morning. Coming up at ten we will have reaction the Champions

:24:18.:24:26.

League where Arsenal were knocked out in the last 16 for the sixth

:24:27.:24:32.

year running, Neymar, Suarez and Messi with Barca's goal. Arsene

:24:33.:24:35.

Wenger says they are the best three strikers that he has ever seen, they

:24:36.:24:39.

say, he says they transformed normal life into art. We will hear from

:24:40.:24:42.

Wenger. The 11 sixths for West Indies

:24:43.:24:59.

batsman crease gale which sent England to a six wicket defeat.

:25:00.:25:04.

Action from that to come as well. England's women they get under way

:25:05.:25:07.

against Bangladesh in half an hour, there is good news from an England

:25:08.:25:13.

point of view with Joe Marler free to play against France. We will see

:25:14.:25:15.

you at 10.00. Lots of tributes to Paul Daniel

:25:16.:25:33.

coming through. St France. We will see you at 10.00.

:25:34.:25:35.

Lots of tributes to Paul Daniel coming through. Jan said "I thought

:25:36.:25:38.

he was talented. One memory I have is being totally lost in the

:25:39.:25:40.

Oxfordshire countryside when Paul and Debbie drove past, I thought I

:25:41.:25:44.

are follow them, little did I know they weren't on their way home so I

:25:45.:25:50.

was even more lost than ever." Side when Paul and Debbie drove past, I

:25:51.:25:53.

thought I are follow them, little did I know they weren't on their way

:25:54.:25:56.

home so I was even more lost than ever." Ian said "Paul Daniel made it

:25:57.:25:59.

seem so simple until you I know they weren't on their way home so I was

:26:00.:26:02.

even more lost than ever." Ian said "Paul Daniel made it seem so simple

:26:03.:26:04.

until you stopped to think." "Paul Daniels inspired me to be a

:26:05.:26:07.

magician, love you Paul. Ian said "Paul Daniel made it seem so simple

:26:08.:26:09.

until you stopped to think." "Paul Daniels inspired me to be a

:26:10.:26:12.

magician, love you Paul." Ian "A sad loss, Ian said "Paul Daniel made it

:26:13.:26:15.

seem so simple until you stopped to think." "Paul Daniels inspired me to

:26:16.:26:17.

be a magician, love you Paul." Ian "A sad loss, a real entertainer."

:26:18.:26:20.

"When Paul was on strictly he was aroom calmer." Another one says I

:26:21.:26:23.

worked with Paul in panto, he was a wonderful kind man, they were a joy

:26:24.:26:25.

to work alongside. He never failed to entertain us with his close up

:26:26.:26:28.

magic and enthusiasm for his craft was infectious, a truly sad loss. We

:26:29.:26:32.

can talk to someone inspired by Paul Daniels, the magician Jamie Raven.

:26:33.:26:37.

Jamie, tell us, what it was about Paul Daniels that inspired you? Yes,

:26:38.:26:42.

I think as a magician, fist and foremost you want people to be

:26:43.:26:49.

amazed an impressed. What Paul did was he managed to entertain

:26:50.:26:51.

everybody through the whole process, it wasn't just what he did that

:26:52.:26:54.

amazing everybody, it was how he did it, and the jokes and the patter and

:26:55.:26:59.

you know, the fun he had with even while he was doing it that got me

:27:00.:27:04.

and yes, a sad day. We are seeing a picture of you with Paul, is that a

:27:05.:27:08.

moment when you met your hero? Yes, it wasn't the first time I met him.

:27:09.:27:15.

That was after I did, I was on Britain's Got Talent. Debbie has a

:27:16.:27:19.

radio show and I live in Berkshire, I met him a couple of times before.

:27:20.:27:23.

I went for an interview, she said Paul is coming in the you want to

:27:24.:27:30.

hang on. We had a chat and we had a lovely chat and yes, that was, that

:27:31.:27:34.

was not the last time but one of the last times I saw him. Was he a sort

:27:35.:27:39.

of big on screen fig you for you growing up? Yes, -- figure As most

:27:40.:27:46.

people my age, I am in my mid 30s, as I was growing up I caught the

:27:47.:27:51.

tail end of his career. Yes, in terms of magic in this country he,

:27:52.:27:56.

there is another... Paul Daniels was magic on the BBC and he brought,

:27:57.:28:02.

brought it back to public consciousness, for a long time and

:28:03.:28:05.

you know, there is not a single magician performing in this country

:28:06.:28:09.

that wasn't inspired by him or inspired by someone who was inspired

:28:10.:28:13.

by him. He made a huge difference to our world. When someone does

:28:14.:28:17.

something world the trick it is make it look easy, he made it look easy,

:28:18.:28:22.

but it is not that at all. You know, it is the old saying, for, you have

:28:23.:28:27.

to practise for 1,000 hours before you make it look like you can do it

:28:28.:28:31.

with your eyes shut. He was so skilled as a magician with his

:28:32.:28:36.

hands, he was brilliant with words, so he could disarm people and catch

:28:37.:28:39.

them off guard because he was making them laugh at the same time. It is

:28:40.:28:44.

one of the classic ploys to misdirect people's attention, you

:28:45.:28:47.

have to lead them elsewhere, so as I said before, that is what I loved

:28:48.:28:51.

about what he did, it wasn't just the tricks it was how he did them,

:28:52.:28:56.

and inspired generations since. We are seeing him performing some

:28:57.:29:00.

tricks here, in his heyday, is there one in particular that sticks with

:29:01.:29:07.

you? My favourite one is one of the simplest, a chop cup. A cup and

:29:08.:29:11.

ball, you had to guess where it was in the ball or in his pocket. You

:29:12.:29:14.

would get it wrong. Whatever you said was wrong. At the end, he would

:29:15.:29:19.

say, I will give it a flick. When you give give it a flick under the

:29:20.:29:24.

cup there is a lemon, this came out of nowhere, he said if you love the

:29:25.:29:28.

lemon you will go crazy for the orange. I remember watching that,

:29:29.:29:32.

you watch it and you know that that has come about through thousands of,

:29:33.:29:36.

tens of thousands of hours of practise and yes, that was my

:29:37.:29:40.

favourite. The cup and ball. I imagine when you are a magician, you

:29:41.:29:43.

can always entertain people with a trick or two and people want to be

:29:44.:29:48.

entertained. Yes, I think it is one of those things, that magic is great

:29:49.:29:51.

because when you watch it live, there is no comparison to it. If you

:29:52.:29:55.

watch it on television people will say if I was there it wouldn't get

:29:56.:30:01.

past me, and it is one of those only things you can do live and it is

:30:02.:30:05.

better than watching out the screen. If you have that skill you are

:30:06.:30:09.

always able to do something for someone, they might never see it

:30:10.:30:14.

again and it is special some time, profound, and something he was a

:30:15.:30:16.

master of. Do you think you would have gone into magic if you hadn't

:30:17.:30:22.

seen him on TV growing up? I doubt it to be honest, we all, we are all

:30:23.:30:28.

inspired to do something by someone and something they have done, if he

:30:29.:30:32.

hadn't been on television it would have been later on in my life I

:30:33.:30:35.

would have seen magic, I was interested because of what I saw him

:30:36.:30:40.

do, and that led me to, you know, look up other magicians and research

:30:41.:30:45.

and try and learn. If I hadn't seen him, yes, you say we probably

:30:46.:30:48.

wouldn't be talking now. And how will you remember him ultimately,

:30:49.:30:51.

obviously you have the memories, from your childhood, but then, in,

:30:52.:30:56.

recent years you met him. Yes, my memories will be as you say, first

:30:57.:31:04.

and foremost watching the master of it, I am biassed and it is an art.

:31:05.:31:08.

He was one of the best the world has produced. My real memory will be how

:31:09.:31:13.

generous and gracious he was with his time for people in our

:31:14.:31:16.

profession, with have lots of conventions in the magic world

:31:17.:31:21.

throughout the year and Paul loved magic, he was at almost all of them.

:31:22.:31:24.

If somebody would ask a question about a trick he would help them

:31:25.:31:29.

out. If you had a question about something else, maybe in the world

:31:30.:31:32.

of television or media he would help, he was someone who loved magic

:31:33.:31:36.

and was happy to give back and he left the craft of magic in a better

:31:37.:31:41.

place than hen he found it. That is the highest compliment I can pay

:31:42.:31:42.

him. Thank you. Lots of tributes coming through. One

:31:43.:31:54.

from Mark Lynsey saying, Paul was an outstanding showman, a great

:31:55.:31:58.

entertainer of the BBC, his long-running magic show delighted

:31:59.:32:05.

viewers, as did his quiz shows and children's favourite Wizzbit. He

:32:06.:32:08.

will be missed and thoughts are with his family.

:32:09.:32:15.

A Doctor Who acted as an expert witness has been found to have

:32:16.:32:23.

misled some courts. A disciplinary panel found that the Doctor Who

:32:24.:32:27.

disputes the diagnosis of Shaken Baby Syndrome skewed research to

:32:28.:32:31.

support her views. Dr Squire explained why she had a complete

:32:32.:32:35.

turn around in her perspective on Shaken Baby Syndrome when giving

:32:36.:32:37.

expert evidence. It was about the year 2000

:32:38.:32:43.

when I read more information published, more research had been

:32:44.:32:47.

published about shaken baby syndrome, and realised that this

:32:48.:32:53.

just didn't fit with the traditional belief that shaking was the cause

:32:54.:32:56.

of retinal and subdural haemorrhages in babies, that's bleeding behind

:32:57.:32:58.

the eyes and around the brain, This pathology made it

:32:59.:33:01.

clear that there may not necessarily be trauma

:33:02.:33:06.

in these babies. And so I read as much

:33:07.:33:09.

as I could about shaken baby syndrome, I went into great depth

:33:10.:33:12.

about the literature, and found that, indeed,

:33:13.:33:15.

there is very little evidence to support the shaken

:33:16.:33:17.

baby hypothesis which is the current

:33:18.:33:20.

mainstream view. So, from that moment,

:33:21.:33:22.

the evidence you were giving as an expert witness

:33:23.:33:24.

meant that you went from being in favour of the evidence

:33:25.:33:27.

being presented before you, indicating potential abuse

:33:28.:33:31.

of a child, to in fact regarding it Does that undermine

:33:32.:33:34.

you and your credibility? On the contrary, this indicates that

:33:35.:33:40.

I have taken on board the new research,

:33:41.:33:43.

I have done a lot of reading and study, looked

:33:44.:33:46.

at all the cases before me, and I've actually reassessed

:33:47.:33:50.

the information rather than sticking with

:33:51.:33:54.

the old hypothesis. So, do you completely believe that

:33:55.:33:57.

shaken baby syndrome, I think that we don't

:33:58.:34:02.

understand what the causes are of these features

:34:03.:34:09.

which have been described as shaken baby syndrome, and there is nothing

:34:10.:34:23.

I can find in the literature which supports the belief that

:34:24.:34:26.

shaking is the cause Of course, impact

:34:27.:34:30.

can do it and trauma can do it, and that may be

:34:31.:34:35.

accidental or inflicted, but I don't think that

:34:36.:34:38.

shaking is a reliable diagnosis unless we have a lot

:34:39.:34:41.

of supporting evidence, such as damage to

:34:42.:34:43.

the neck or grip marks and

:34:44.:34:48.

fractures. Would you see yourself

:34:49.:34:50.

as being on a mission to stop someone being convicted

:34:51.:34:52.

of something you No, I'm not on a mission

:34:53.:34:54.

at all and I'm not trying to stop convictions,

:34:55.:34:59.

because I'm perfectly aware that people abuse babies,

:35:00.:35:02.

and I've seen plenty of cases I'm just simply anxious to show

:35:03.:35:05.

that this is not an automatic diagnosis, and we need

:35:06.:35:10.

to look far more carefully and look at the range

:35:11.:35:12.

of possible explanations before we jump to a conclusion

:35:13.:35:15.

that a baby has During the course of the GMC

:35:16.:35:17.

investigation, since the GMC investigation began,

:35:18.:35:22.

you continued to give evidence as an expert witness,

:35:23.:35:25.

and that is something that has made The GMC may find

:35:26.:35:28.

you dishonest today. That could potentially

:35:29.:35:39.

mean that you would be This reflects on 32 years

:35:40.:35:41.

as a paediatric neuropathologist, I think,

:35:42.:35:49.

unblemished, many publications in scientific literature,

:35:50.:35:51.

and to have it all come to an end in this way is terribly,

:35:52.:35:54.

terribly painful. I would hope I can

:35:55.:35:56.

continue doing research Dominic Hughes, our Health

:35:57.:36:10.

Correspondent, tell us more about this case? As Dr Squire outlined,

:36:11.:36:16.

the background to this is this very bitter split within the scientific

:36:17.:36:21.

community over Shaken Baby Syndrome. The majority view, as Dr Squire

:36:22.:36:26.

explained, is the majority view is that three signs need to be present,

:36:27.:36:30.

so swelling of the brain, bleeding between the skull and the brain and

:36:31.:36:35.

bleeding in the retina. If those signs are present, broadly speaking,

:36:36.:36:39.

the majority view is that there is a good chance a baby has been shaken.

:36:40.:36:45.

Dr Squire believes those symptoms can be caused, those signs can be

:36:46.:36:50.

caused by other thing, for example a low level fall. But, the GMC, the

:36:51.:36:57.

panel, the independent panel that heard months and months of evidence

:36:58.:37:01.

from expert witnesses, was very clear that they weren't entering

:37:02.:37:05.

into a discussion of that scientific row, if you like. What they were

:37:06.:37:10.

looking at specifically was her conduct as an expert witness and,

:37:11.:37:15.

broadly speaking, there were two charges that she faced really. One

:37:16.:37:20.

was that she went way beyond the boundaries of where her expertise

:37:21.:37:26.

lay so she started in court cases talking about things like

:37:27.:37:29.

ophthalmology or biomechanics which as I understand it is what happens

:37:30.:37:33.

to the brain when the brain is moved around inside the skull through

:37:34.:37:36.

shaking, she started toe talk about those areas which she wasn't quality

:37:37.:37:43.

tide to talk about. The second charge -- wasn't qualified to talk

:37:44.:37:48.

about. The second charge is that she cherry picked from evidence of other

:37:49.:37:51.

cases to support the fact that maybe these babies hadn't been shaken. It

:37:52.:37:56.

centres around six particular cases. Dr Squire has given evidence in

:37:57.:38:03.

doeses of cases -- dozenses of cases. It's alleged she overstepped

:38:04.:38:08.

the mark and misrepresent odd they are people's research and that panel

:38:09.:38:12.

last week, on Friday, found she member misleading and dishonest.

:38:13.:38:15.

They say she was irresponsible in her evidence to the court. So today,

:38:16.:38:19.

what we are going to hear, is the second stage of this process about

:38:20.:38:23.

whether or not her fitness to practise as a doctor has been

:38:24.:38:26.

impaired in the light of those findings and then there is a further

:38:27.:38:31.

stage that, given that, if they do find she's been impaired, then they

:38:32.:38:36.

will next week I understand, decide what sanctions they are going to

:38:37.:38:39.

bring against her. That could be anything from no sanctions to

:38:40.:38:44.

operating under supervision or limitations or being struck off from

:38:45.:38:46.

the medical register all together. Charities say they everythey have

:38:47.:39:00.

been denied millions of pounds because of messages on websites

:39:01.:39:06.

which suggest donation may be more from one person had the part of the

:39:07.:39:18.

Giftaid taken off. And the migrant crisis is top of the agenda today.

:39:19.:39:26.

A deal has broadly been agreed. For each Syrian sent back, a Syrian

:39:27.:39:30.

already in Turkey would be resettled in the EU. Turkey would also get

:39:31.:39:35.

extra money and more progress on the country's integration with the EU.

:39:36.:39:38.

That summit will take place later today. But what about the migrant

:39:39.:39:44.

who is've survived the journey? They have been recounting their perilous

:39:45.:39:45.

voyage. The journey from the Turkish shore

:39:46.:40:16.

to the Greek shore was very horrific, because

:40:17.:40:19.

we've got children. Our correspondents Rob

:40:20.:41:40.

Watson is in Brussels. What is likely to happen with this

:41:41.:41:48.

deal? I often think the summits are doomed to success in the sense that

:41:49.:41:53.

diplomats can't bear the idea of politicians walking away from an EU

:41:54.:41:57.

summit, it would send off such a terrible signal, but obvious think

:41:58.:42:00.

there are some big questions out there. If there is a deal, will it

:42:01.:42:05.

work? In other words, will this plan of deterring people from setting out

:42:06.:42:09.

on this journey by returning people from Greece toe Turkey, is that

:42:10.:42:12.

practical, will it be legal, can that be pulled off? Then of course,

:42:13.:42:16.

the second big issue at the summit is, what price, what political price

:42:17.:42:22.

EU member states are willing to pay Turkey for its cooperation. In some

:42:23.:42:27.

ways, these EU summits are doomed to success, people need a deal. The

:42:28.:42:32.

question is, will it work? Thank you Rob.

:42:33.:42:36.

Coming up, tougher sentences for the owners of dogs that kill

:42:37.:42:39.

Sunny from you as always, is the weather as sunny?

:42:40.:43:02.

Yes, but it's been a cloudy start. Fog still around. Weather-watchers

:43:03.:43:08.

doing us proud. Picture from Dorset this morning, a lovely sun rise. It

:43:09.:43:12.

wasn't like that everywhere. In Norfolk, a lot of low cloud and also

:43:13.:43:17.

some fog. Now, what is happening is, we have very low cloud rolling in

:43:18.:43:21.

from the North Sea, it's a cold North Sea, so some of this is taking

:43:22.:43:24.

its time to clear. It's not everywhere. As we drift over to the

:43:25.:43:29.

other side of the country in Cumbria, we have blue skies, so we

:43:30.:43:35.

have an east west split. In the west, sunny, pleasant after a cold

:43:36.:43:38.

start, but in central and eastern areas, there is a lot of low cloud.

:43:39.:43:43.

It will be thin and it will break and we'll see some sunshine today.

:43:44.:43:48.

Hurray for that. Today we have sunny spells. There is

:43:49.:43:53.

an exception to that rule, that is across parts of eastern Scotland and

:43:54.:43:57.

also parts of eastern England. Now, we've had a lot of cloud here in the

:43:58.:44:02.

last few days but it's not going to be as extensive today. You can see

:44:03.:44:13.

where we have the cloud. Some of the cloud is high and some is low in

:44:14.:44:17.

Northern Ireland, but it will all tend to lift, thin and break and we

:44:18.:44:20.

are in for a pleasant afternoon. It will take a while to lift from the

:44:21.:44:25.

central lowlands and you can see how it's on the coastline of eastern

:44:26.:44:28.

Scotland and north-east England. Possibly as far south as

:44:29.:44:32.

Lincolnshire. If you are in Northern Ireland, happy St Patrick's Day, we

:44:33.:44:35.

are looking at a lovely afternoon, a lot of sunshine. Temperatures up to

:44:36.:44:39.

about nine in Belfast. Across Scotland, a lot of sunshine. When we

:44:40.:44:44.

lose the stubborn cloud, you might find it will take time before it

:44:45.:44:52.

completely lifts. We are back into the sunshine in

:44:53.:44:57.

Cumbria and Lancashire. Where we have got all the cloud,

:44:58.:45:02.

that too will thin and break. We'll have some sunshine. Not such a keen

:45:03.:45:08.

breeze across the south so it won't feel as cold here. Love any in the

:45:09.:45:12.

south-west of England. You are in for a treat. There'll be a lot of it

:45:13.:45:17.

today. Today is likely to be the sunniest day of the week with the

:45:18.:45:21.

most widespread sunshine. Got that too across the Cheltenham area. It

:45:22.:45:26.

will be cloudy and there is the risk of drizzle tomorrow and it will feel

:45:27.:45:28.

cold. The cloud in the east tonight drifts

:45:29.:45:33.

inland. Patchy low cloud amongst that with some fog and drizzle. Out

:45:34.:45:37.

towards the west, under clearer skies, it's going to be cold and

:45:38.:45:40.

some prone areas will see some frost. Tomorrow morning, we still

:45:41.:45:44.

will have high pressure firmly dominating our weather. If anything,

:45:45.:45:48.

it drifts north-west, so the distribution of the cloud moving

:45:49.:45:51.

around it will be slightly different. From tomorrow, across

:45:52.:45:55.

much of England, there'll be a lot of cloud. Some of that will be low.

:45:56.:46:00.

You can see some drizzle from it. For the south-west, Wales and

:46:01.:46:05.

north-west England, along with Scotland and Northern Ireland, we'll

:46:06.:46:10.

see some sunshine. The temperatures are coming down a touch. Into the

:46:11.:46:14.

weekend with high pressure clinging on by the skin of its teeth, still

:46:15.:46:20.

mostly dry, often cloud which with a bit of sunshine, chilly by day and

:46:21.:46:21.

night. Hello it's Thursday, it's ten

:46:22.:46:27.

o'clock, I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the programme

:46:28.:46:29.

if you've just joined us. Magical memories of TV magic

:46:30.:46:31.

virtuoso Paul Daniels, who's died at the age of 77 -

:46:32.:46:34.

we bring you tributes to his talent If the ball it is in my hand, it is

:46:35.:46:53.

under the cup. Get in touch with your memories of

:46:54.:46:54.

Paul. Also this morning: a promise

:46:55.:46:56.

to balance the books by 2020 - His budget will be closely looked

:46:57.:46:59.

at by MPs and experts today - and we look at what it

:47:00.:47:04.

means for you. Charities say they could be denies

:47:05.:47:12.

millions because of personal messages on the largest fundraising

:47:13.:47:15.

website. Messages like from mum and dad, that suggests donations come

:47:16.:47:21.

from more than one person. It might mean the Gift Aid gets taken off.

:47:22.:47:28.

New laws and tougher sentences for owners of dangerous doings if it can

:47:29.:47:34.

be proved the dog is trained to be dangerous.

:47:35.:47:37.

We speak to one woman who was attacked and badly hurt

:47:38.:47:40.

She tells us new sentences won't make any difference.

:47:41.:47:45.

Tributes are paid to the magician and comedian, Paul Daniels,

:47:46.:47:47.

He became one of the biggest TV stars of the eighties,

:47:48.:47:52.

thanks to The Paul Daniels Magic Show, which he presented

:47:53.:47:54.

alongside his wife and assistant Debbie McGee.

:47:55.:47:56.

He announced last month that he had an incurable brain tumour.

:47:57.:47:59.

The entertainer Keith Chegwin described Paul Daniels as a lovely,

:48:00.:48:01.

The Chancellor George Osborne has told the BBC he remains confident

:48:02.:48:09.

that UK public finances will be back in surplus by 2020.

:48:10.:48:12.

He's defended the decisions made in yesterday's budget,

:48:13.:48:14.

in which he announced higher public borrowing ahead -

:48:15.:48:16.

citing the slowing UK economy and global economic jitters.

:48:17.:48:18.

MPs will debate Mr Osborne's plans in parliament later.

:48:19.:48:31.

I have set out the plans in the budget, and then a completely

:48:32.:48:37.

independent body, which even respects called the Office for

:48:38.:48:39.

Budget Responsibility has looked at the plans and it says if you hold to

:48:40.:48:43.

the course, if you deliver those plans, if the economy grows as

:48:44.:48:47.

expected, then we will have a surplus towards the end of the

:48:48.:48:48.

then we will have a surplus towards the end of the Parliament.

:48:49.:48:53.

David Cameron travels to Brussels today for more talks

:48:54.:48:55.

He'll attend a summit of EU leaders, which is set to be dominated

:48:56.:48:59.

by a proposed deal with Turkey, amid warnings that Greece

:49:00.:49:01.

is becoming a refugee camp for the rest of Europe.

:49:02.:49:04.

The number of migrants waiting at the Greece-Macedonia border

:49:05.:49:06.

The Kurdish militant group TAK has claimed responsibility for Sunday's

:49:07.:49:09.

terror attack in the Turkish capital, that killed 37 people.

:49:10.:49:12.

In an online statement the group said the bombing in Ankara

:49:13.:49:14.

was revenge for military operations carried out by Turkey in Kurdish

:49:15.:49:17.

Owners of dangerous dogs will face harsher sentences if the animals

:49:18.:49:26.

have been deliberately trained to be aggressive,

:49:27.:49:28.

under new sentencing guidelines in England and Wales.

:49:29.:49:30.

It comes after a number of changes to the law including a new offence

:49:31.:49:33.

Scottish programme to get primary school children walking or running

:49:34.:49:42.

a mile a day will be extended across the UK.

:49:43.:49:44.

"The Daily Mile" which was first introduced at a school in Stirling

:49:45.:49:47.

has been taken up by more than 500 others across Scotland,

:49:48.:49:50.

in an attempt to improve fitness and concentration in class.

:49:51.:49:57.

Cliff Michelmore, one of the most familiar figures on BBC radio

:49:58.:49:59.

and television for more than four decades has died aged 96.

:50:00.:50:02.

Best known as the host of current affairs programme Tonight,

:50:03.:50:04.

he covered events including the Apollo moon landings

:50:05.:50:06.

and presented the travel programme Holiday.

:50:07.:50:08.

BBC director general Tony Hall said he was an "outstanding broadcaster".

:50:09.:50:18.

Will Perry's back with the sport - and Arsene Wenger has been fulsome

:50:19.:50:21.

in his praise of Barcelona, hasn't he?

:50:22.:50:29.

If you are an Arsenal fan you might want to close your eyes. Barcelona's

:50:30.:50:37.

players transform normal life into art according to Arsene Wenger, they

:50:38.:50:41.

lost, going out of the Champions League at the last 16 stage for the

:50:42.:50:47.

sixth year in a row. Messi, Neymar and Suarez were on target. Neymar

:50:48.:50:52.

with the first after less than 20 minutes. Suarez scored his 17th goal

:50:53.:51:03.

in 14 games. And Messi's little dink over ops many in the Arsenal goal

:51:04.:51:09.

had Arsene Wenger in raptures. -- Ospina. The quality of

:51:10.:51:16.

creativity, especially Messi is absolutely exceptional. You go

:51:17.:51:19.

through 90 minutes and you come out of a game. He didn't miss one fist

:51:20.:51:25.

touch. No matter where the ball comes from, you have as well, at

:51:26.:51:31.

some stage, in our sport, admire art and we have two or three players who

:51:32.:51:36.

transform normal life into art, and I respect that.

:51:37.:51:41.

It is a huge night in the Europa League with Manchester United up

:51:42.:51:44.

against Liverpool in the last 16 second leg. Louis van Gaal says

:51:45.:51:50.

United must deliver with his side 2-0 down. He is contracted until the

:51:51.:51:55.

end of next season but has come under pressure during a

:51:56.:51:58.

disappointing campaign, if he does go in the summer who takes over?

:51:59.:52:02.

Their former captain has spoken to the BBC in his first interview since

:52:03.:52:06.

retirement in January. He says United would have a tough decision

:52:07.:52:11.

at the end of the season. Mourinho has success in the past. He played a

:52:12.:52:17.

football a certain way, it is well-known, and it is a Chard

:52:18.:52:24.

choice, a hard choice, Mourinho is one of the greatest ever, and Sir

:52:25.:52:31.

Alex Ferguson, these are the best managers.

:52:32.:52:38.

Away from the football England prop Joe marler prop won't be pub

:52:39.:52:41.

Northern Irished for called Samson Lee gypsy boy. He is free to play

:52:42.:52:45.

France as England go for their first Grand Slam for 13 year, he avoided a

:52:46.:52:57.

ban for strike -- avoided a ban for striking Rob Evans,

:52:58.:53:01.

England's women are starting their first match at the world Twenty20

:53:02.:53:05.

cricket. They hose to bat against Bangladesh. England's men, they

:53:06.:53:12.

began their T20 campaign pain with a defeat against West Indies.

:53:13.:53:18.

Chris gal smashed 11 sixes is on his way to an unbeaten 47 ball century.

:53:19.:53:24.

England had set what they thought was a competitive target of 182.

:53:25.:53:28.

Gail put paid to that. That is all the sport.

:53:29.:53:31.

Hello, thank you for joining us this morning, welcome to the programme

:53:32.:53:34.

if you've just joined us, we're on BBC 2 and the BBC

:53:35.:53:37.

You can get in touch in the usual ways -

:53:38.:53:41.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:53:42.:53:45.

Wherever you are you can watch our programme online,

:53:46.:53:47.

via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/victoria.

:53:48.:54:02.

Tributes have opinion pouring in for Paul Daniels. Lots of comments

:54:03.:54:08.

coming in, lots of people calling him a top entertainer, a lovely kind

:54:09.:54:12.

man and beloved star, so many of you are getting in touch who grew up

:54:13.:54:16.

with Paul Daniels, watching his BBC magic show which ran for 15 year, he

:54:17.:54:21.

was at his home hen he died in the early hours of this morning, we will

:54:22.:54:24.

talk to some people who knew him in a moment, but first let us look at

:54:25.:54:29.

what made him special. You have to take one of those bands

:54:30.:54:34.

and put it round my first so the ring cannot get out. Happy with

:54:35.:54:37.

that? Super. This is the trick. This is the one where people have been

:54:38.:54:41.

known to give me a standing ovation. Right? I do not tell you that

:54:42.:54:45.

because I particularly need one, I just don't want you to be

:54:46.:54:48.

embarrassed when you are the only one left sitting down.

:54:49.:54:53.

Now, this is your handkerchief. If I put that there, and push very hard

:54:54.:54:58.

on this end, a very interesting phenomenon will happen, it will make

:54:59.:55:02.

a hole in the handkerchief there, and a hole at the other end as it

:55:03.:55:07.

goes out. I can see you are impressed. The other alternative...

:55:08.:55:12.

No, no, the other alternative is it would come out this hand because the

:55:13.:55:16.

pressure there is too great. Do you understand that? Yes, yes. You wrap

:55:17.:55:20.

your wring up tight. Hold the end of the stick, you hold the other end,

:55:21.:55:24.

now you are both in on the act. I pronounce you man and wife now. You

:55:25.:55:29.

are not together? You are not? Sorry, I didn't realise that. If I

:55:30.:55:33.

had realised that what I would have done was put the band round, the

:55:34.:55:38.

handkerchief leek that, it is your ring, it is your ring, you

:55:39.:55:43.

handkerchief. Watch. Now that is right on there, and that is magic.

:55:44.:55:48.

Applause applause. Have a look at that. Nothing will be added, nothing

:55:49.:55:52.

taken away, this is a piece of cardboard, the piece of cardboard I

:55:53.:55:56.

am going to put over the top but as you can see, it does not affect the

:55:57.:56:02.

coins, it is merely, a little cover, you cannot see the jiggery-pokery,

:56:03.:56:06.

look at this. One pound and six pence. That is the total amount. If

:56:07.:56:12.

I start to move the Cowen coins round and then having moved them

:56:13.:56:18.

round like that, I take out the penny. Like this. The question is,

:56:19.:56:25.

if I put that in my pocket how much is left underneath the piece of

:56:26.:56:29.

cardboard, nothing will be added. Well, normally you would say a pound

:56:30.:56:33.

and five pence if you are good at math, it is not the case, there is

:56:34.:56:37.

still a pound and six pence, but I have moved them into a different

:56:38.:56:41.

order. Perhaps you were not watching closely enough. Over here, is a

:56:42.:56:45.

pound, over here is the penny, over here is the five pence piece. I will

:56:46.:56:49.

cover them up again with the same piece of card as before, nothing

:56:50.:56:55.

added, finger-tip, nothing in the hands, watch carefully. I go

:56:56.:56:59.

underneath here, and what I am going to do now, is I am going to move the

:57:00.:57:05.

coins round and take out this one. This is a five pence piece, very

:57:06.:57:10.

tiny coin to see on TV. There it is. I am going to put that in my pocket.

:57:11.:57:16.

How much have I got left? If you are any good at math it is a pound and a

:57:17.:57:21.

penny, but that not the right answer, underneath here I still have

:57:22.:57:25.

a pound and six pence. Which is where we came in. I am going to do

:57:26.:57:30.

it again, then. All you have to do is cover them over like this, and

:57:31.:57:35.

then what you do is you make sure that when you do it cover the coin,

:57:36.:57:38.

you cover them up and move them round and when you move them round,

:57:39.:57:44.

look, watch, I take out this time, the pound, and only the pound, if I

:57:45.:57:47.

take the point out like that and put it in my pocket, as I did before,

:57:48.:57:54.

how much have I got underneath here? A pound and six pence? No. Nothing

:57:55.:58:01.

at all. In fact, I -- you 1.06. This is your chance the clean out the

:58:02.:58:05.

bank, you have ten, I have 20, I will give you two to one. I am going

:58:06.:58:10.

to take the Queen and bend the corner.

:58:11.:58:16.

All right. Now, Can you see the corner of the Queen is bent. Would

:58:17.:58:20.

you like to make sure it is still the Queen? Yes. It is. Isn't it. Now

:58:21.:58:26.

these are the two black three, this is the Queen with the corner bent.

:58:27.:58:30.

All you have to do is keep your eye on the Queen, there, it has its

:58:31.:58:33.

corner bent. These two it doesn't matter, these are the three, where

:58:34.:58:40.

is the Queen for ?10? There. Certainly if you like. ?10. That is

:58:41.:58:45.

it, it is a black three, and... APPLAUSE.

:58:46.:58:54.

It is a shame. Don't feel worried about it. This phrase we have got

:58:55.:59:00.

round the booth heads you lose and tails I win, you don't stand a

:59:01.:59:03.

chance. A chap came up to me he had a three card trick, he said look,

:59:04.:59:07.

three cards and he asked me if I could do it. I said of course. I'm a

:59:08.:59:13.

genius at it. He said if you are such a genius guess where the black

:59:14.:59:16.

card is, I said on the bottom. He said that is a red. I said it must

:59:17.:59:22.

be on the top. He said no, red, I said middle he said a red. I said

:59:23.:59:28.

are you asking me to bet on a black card you have three red cards. He

:59:29.:59:34.

said no need the lose your hair, get on the press. I said it must be the

:59:35.:59:41.

one on the top. He said no, black, I said the middle, he said it is the

:59:42.:59:47.

black card. I said what is that for? He said that's for laughs.

:59:48.:59:53.

Don't think you are going to lose, we have this week's star prize just

:59:54.:59:58.

for you, here you have, you have won a coconut.

:59:59.:00:01.

Thank you. Enjoy the rest of the show.

:00:02.:00:06.

Great old fashioned magic delivered with panache, he wasn't just about

:00:07.:00:10.

the magic he was about the fun, the humour and many sly digs right back

:00:11.:00:17.

at himself We can talk to Graham rude who

:00:18.:00:22.

worked with you. You spoke to Debbie this morning, didn't you. Yes

:00:23.:00:27.

indeed, it was terribly sad news even though we knew it was going to

:00:28.:00:32.

happen, my heart goes out to Debbie and to Paul's family. He was a great

:00:33.:00:39.

guy, a great friend, we were friends for 57 years, and I have so many

:00:40.:00:43.

happy memories. As do lots of people. We were watching back some

:00:44.:00:48.

of his show, that you worked on, didn't you. Tell us what your role

:00:49.:00:54.

was alongside Paul? My title was magical consultant on the show. I

:00:55.:00:59.

was on it for 12 years and it was terrific, we were a real team, we

:01:00.:01:03.

worked hard, we had a yob to do at the end of the day, to produce the

:01:04.:01:10.

TV show, which was often seen by 17, 20 million people. And, but it was a

:01:11.:01:17.

team, and Paul who was the main man, was great to work with, he was a lot

:01:18.:01:21.

of fun, but the end of the day he had a job to do, as I said, but he

:01:22.:01:27.

looked after you, he was a very kind person, as well, if he knew you had

:01:28.:01:33.

a problem, or, worry of some kind he would be the first to be there to

:01:34.:01:38.

help you. He, he really was a genuine person. And Debbie, his

:01:39.:01:45.

wife, an absolute treasure, as a married couple you count wish for a

:01:46.:01:47.

more devoted couple. We are seeing a picture of you with

:01:48.:01:56.

both of them. You said he had a job to do, but he made it look

:01:57.:02:01.

effortless. Did he see it as a jo? Even at the height of his fame, we'd

:02:02.:02:08.

go to a magical convention or whatever, or into a magic shop and

:02:09.:02:13.

he'd be worried about the latest stuff and would be playing around

:02:14.:02:17.

with it, as we all do when we are just beginning. He just loved it. He

:02:18.:02:22.

was an entertainer without any shadow of a doubt. I think that a

:02:23.:02:26.

large part of that started in the working men's clubs which, believe

:02:27.:02:29.

you me, were vrksth very, very tough indeed. Very often, the audience

:02:30.:02:37.

would sit with their backs to the stage when you were introduced. You

:02:38.:02:42.

had to jolly well be good to make them turn around and enjoy you and

:02:43.:02:46.

Paul was a master, he was a people person. Also, full credit to his mum

:02:47.:02:53.

and dad who were very supportive and encouraged him and, in the latter

:02:54.:02:58.

years, as I've already mentioned, David Cameron by, his most devoted

:02:59.:03:02.

wife and partner on the stage as well as off, that you could wish

:03:03.:03:05.

for. You mentioned his mum and dad. What

:03:06.:03:09.

did he say to you about the little boy who was shaped into the man in

:03:10.:03:14.

the end who became a magician, what was it that mad him want to go into

:03:15.:03:21.

the magic? His dad used to make some of his early props. His mum used to

:03:22.:03:28.

sew curtains and all that kind of stuff. They've got to have full

:03:29.:03:37.

credit. I remember once being at Paul's house. There were discussions

:03:38.:03:44.

about a project. Paul's mum looked out of the window and said, there's

:03:45.:03:49.

somebody sitting in the car who, is it, and one of the executives said,

:03:50.:03:53.

it's a chauffeur, don't worry about it and Paul's mum said, well he's

:03:54.:03:56.

not sitting out there, he can come in here for a cup of tea with us and

:03:57.:04:02.

he came. And that kindness, that sort of thinking about people, it

:04:03.:04:09.

went right the way through. I remember being at a magic auction

:04:10.:04:14.

and we were bidding for various bits and pieces and there was a young kid

:04:15.:04:18.

wanting a wand. He was bidding for it. There was an older man bidding

:04:19.:04:23.

for it as well, he obviously had more money for the kid, then Paul

:04:24.:04:28.

started bidding, and it went up to quite a price. Paul got it and

:04:29.:04:33.

handed it over to the young boy and said "enjoy it, pal". And that was

:04:34.:04:37.

so typical of him. Lots of things that people didn't see, perhaps,

:04:38.:04:45.

which he would do and more perhaps in the limelight, he was the King

:04:46.:04:50.

rat of the water rats on two occasions which I think is unheard

:04:51.:04:54.

of. He did his bit for charity as well. First class guy in every

:04:55.:05:01.

single way and I shall miss him. The weeshed thing is, he meant so much

:05:02.:05:06.

to me, and I've known him for so long, that there will be a time when

:05:07.:05:11.

I feel as though he's still there. I'm not a religious person, but his

:05:12.:05:17.

presence will always be with me. It's a very, very sad day, but so

:05:18.:05:24.

many happy memories. His quality of life was staggering from the north

:05:25.:05:31.

working men's clubs to being an international superstar. It's a

:05:32.:05:35.

journey not many can take. How did he face up to his illness at the end

:05:36.:05:39.

and the fact that he knew he didn't have very long left? Well, I wasn't

:05:40.:05:51.

with him at the end. Paul and Debbie phoned when he'd finished a

:05:52.:05:56.

pantomime, perhaps he wasn't 100%, but I don't think Paul ever fully

:05:57.:06:03.

appreciated just how badly his illness was. Luckily, and we have

:06:04.:06:09.

all got to be grateful for this, Paul passed away in his sleep. He

:06:10.:06:16.

would know nothing about it. I'm just so grateful for that. If you've

:06:17.:06:21.

got to go, the way to go is in your sleep, Joanna. . You know, Paul, he

:06:22.:06:27.

wouldn't want us to be depressed and sad now. He'd be wanting us to

:06:28.:06:36.

remember his life. That's what we'll try to do. It's a tough ask at the

:06:37.:06:41.

moment, I'm afraid, but I'll miss him a lot. Thank you, thank you

:06:42.:06:43.

Graham. We can talk to Syd Little who was

:06:44.:06:54.

one half of the comedy duo Little Large who worked with Paul

:06:55.:06:58.

throughout the '80s. Thank you for joining us, a very sad day. What are

:06:59.:07:03.

your memories? A very sad day. Quite shocked really. I didn't realise

:07:04.:07:07.

Paul was that ill, I knew he was ill but not that ill and it was a shock

:07:08.:07:13.

this morning. We go back, as the gentleman before was talking about,

:07:14.:07:18.

to the working men's clubs in the '60s with Paul up in the north-east

:07:19.:07:22.

in England where he's from originally. It was hard. He was

:07:23.:07:28.

great. You saw his potential then even in those days and thought,

:07:29.:07:34.

well, you know, he's great, and he loved the sleight of hand and the

:07:35.:07:39.

card tricks, that was his forte. He was always striving for new things

:07:40.:07:43.

all the time. When the television show came on, it showed he was

:07:44.:07:48.

always doing different things, looking for different tricks. He

:07:49.:07:59.

never stopped, he was a work aholic. You were part of that generation

:08:00.:08:06.

where if you made it on to TV, you were big? He loved it all so much, I

:08:07.:08:13.

think that was it, that was his life really. I don't think he thought too

:08:14.:08:19.

much of the fame side of it. He enjoyed what he was doing, it was

:08:20.:08:24.

magic. Syd Little, thank you very much. Lots of you commenting on

:08:25.:08:28.

social media. Do tell us how you remember Paul Daniels.

:08:29.:08:40.

Charities say they've been denied millions of pounds

:08:41.:08:42.

all because of personal messages written by donors on the UK's

:08:43.:08:45.

Messages like from Mum and Dad, which suggested donations may have

:08:46.:08:49.

been from more than one person, had the gift aid part

:08:50.:08:52.

Just Giving, who's been removing the gift aid, said they'd done it

:08:53.:08:56.

in response to a crackdown from the taxman -

:08:57.:08:58.

HMRC denies they told JustGiving to do it.

:08:59.:09:01.

Giftaid works by allowing charities to claim back the 20 per cent

:09:02.:09:04.

basic-rate tax you've already paid on the money you donate.

:09:05.:09:07.

We can speak now to Victoria Pudney, who lost out on some money

:09:08.:09:10.

when she was fundraising for Brain Tumour Research

:09:11.:09:12.

after her son Charlie got tumour Kirstie Meredith,

:09:13.:09:14.

who had the gift aid donation taken off a donation made to her son,

:09:15.:09:19.

Ashley Bailey, from Brain Tumour Research and Andrew O'Brien,

:09:20.:09:34.

Kirsty, tell us what happened to you first? My husband donate toed my

:09:35.:09:42.

son's page. By 24th February, it had been removed. I noticed it and said

:09:43.:09:47.

to my husband, did you not tick the Gift Aid box and he said, of course

:09:48.:09:52.

I did. He said he had a print out that proved that he did tick the

:09:53.:10:00.

box. So basically my husband e-mailed just giving thinking it

:10:01.:10:03.

could be a mistake because at that point my husband was only the second

:10:04.:10:07.

point to make a donation on the page. They never responded to the

:10:08.:10:12.

e-mail and, because I then noticed that other Gift Aid had been removed

:10:13.:10:21.

from the page, I then rang Just Giving who said they were instructed

:10:22.:10:27.

by HMRC to remove the Gift Aid if more than one person Hadow

:10:28.:10:33.

negotiated. My husband, being an accountant, we trolled HMRC's site

:10:34.:10:37.

for a directive about this and there wasn't one. So I then rang HMRC who

:10:38.:10:42.

then eventually, when I got to speak to the correct person, said that

:10:43.:10:48.

it's a misunderstanding and they are trying to crack down on people that

:10:49.:10:56.

are doing raffles, coffee mornings and donating through one person and

:10:57.:11:02.

claiming Gift Aid which you are not allowed to do and I understand that,

:11:03.:11:06.

because the money has been raised by several people. But Just Giving were

:11:07.:11:15.

not very forthcoming, they have changed their donation page which

:11:16.:11:19.

now, when you are ticking to get Gift Aid, it now says "I am not a

:11:20.:11:27.

close relative, I am not related" at the point of donating, which is just

:11:28.:11:33.

ridiculous because most people that run a half marathon do rely upon

:11:34.:11:40.

their family to make donations. I think more upsetting for me, the

:11:41.:11:46.

charities have lost out on the 25% Gift Aid. Victoria, you have been

:11:47.:11:52.

fund-raising for brain due more research after your son was

:11:53.:11:56.

diagnosed with a brain tumour. How has this affected you? I had no idea

:11:57.:12:00.

this had taken place which is the worrying thing really. I was told by

:12:01.:12:06.

the charity that some of my donations had been affected. We were

:12:07.:12:14.

none the wiser. It was all very confusing, so it's just kind of not

:12:15.:12:18.

knowing and also you give money on the pretext that that is what is

:12:19.:12:21.

going to happen, then when it doesn't and you are not told, it

:12:22.:12:26.

seems a bit unethical. Do you know how much the amount has added up to?

:12:27.:12:32.

Not exactly, no. It's not insignificant. Ashley, it's small

:12:33.:12:37.

amounts of money potentially on individual cases, but adding up to a

:12:38.:12:41.

lot. Tell us the impact it's having? Absolutely. The impact for us in

:12:42.:12:46.

November which is the one month that can calculate when it was deductd

:12:47.:12:52.

was 3% of our income so over a year that would be ?120 100,000 that

:12:53.:12:58.

would affect our work. We invest ?2,740 a day on research, so that's

:12:59.:13:02.

over a month's research we wouldn't be able to perform as a result of

:13:03.:13:05.

that. Did you have advance notice that that was going to happen and

:13:06.:13:09.

how did you find out about it? We found out when the reduction was

:13:10.:13:13.

going to be made. We had notification of the amount and then

:13:14.:13:16.

it was slow coming through, when it finally did come through it TSB

:13:17.:13:21.

reduced by ?4,000 which was the November amount -- it had been

:13:22.:13:25.

reduced. I've spoken to Just Giving to speak about what they were doing

:13:26.:13:28.

to the month subsequent to November and I understand they had their own

:13:29.:13:34.

processes for reducing the Gift Aid on certain claims and that would

:13:35.:13:37.

have affected the other lady you are speaking to today. Andrew, what has

:13:38.:13:43.

caused this issue to arise? I think it's partly people not having a

:13:44.:13:48.

clear understanding of Gift Aid. It's a complex process and people

:13:49.:13:53.

think they are leaving a harmless message but HMRC are picking that up

:13:54.:13:56.

as multiple donations which isn't the case. That is part of the

:13:57.:13:59.

problem. Is it that difficult to pick through? Is it not clear one

:14:00.:14:03.

someone's ticked various boxes or whatever whether it's a donation

:14:04.:14:07.

from an individual albeit signed by other people effectively or it's an

:14:08.:14:10.

amount of money raised by a group of people? It can be a bit unclear

:14:11.:14:14.

because the nature of the message is, if it says love from mum and dad

:14:15.:14:20.

for example, if it's come from one person's bank account, HMRC is

:14:21.:14:24.

trying to second guess whether one person or two people have made that

:14:25.:14:32.

donation. What will happen going forward because Just Giving has said

:14:33.:14:36.

charities like Ashley's will be reimbursed. Is there going to be

:14:37.:14:40.

clarity going forward? We hope so, we are calling on HMRC to make the

:14:41.:14:46.

rules clearer. Gift Aid is 16 years old, it needs to be updated. For

:14:47.:14:51.

non-traditional families as well, we are going to work with them to make

:14:52.:14:56.

the rules clearer and with online providers. What about curse Kirsty

:14:57.:15:01.

was saying about the tick boxes asking questions that ask, are you

:15:02.:15:05.

related to this person, how is that relevant? They are trying to find

:15:06.:15:08.

out whether there is a connection between individuals giving money so

:15:09.:15:13.

they are trying to spot if people are using raffles, bake sales et

:15:14.:15:24.

cetera and raise ago lot of money. They are trying to investigate

:15:25.:15:30.

whether investments are right or wrong and that requires education.

:15:31.:15:37.

Is it Just Just Giving that are falling foul of this? No. Kirsty,

:15:38.:15:41.

how do you feel about it now? Well, I'm glad attention has been brought

:15:42.:15:48.

to it, but I, with my discussions with Gist Giving, they have manually

:15:49.:15:54.

removed the Gift Aid proportion and I feel if they can manually remove

:15:55.:16:02.

it, they can manually go back and re-put the Gift Aid back for the

:16:03.:16:06.

individuals that have lost out and the charities that have lost out.

:16:07.:16:09.

What about that, Andrew? Why isn't it easy just to fix it, if it was as

:16:10.:16:12.

easy to take it away? The relationship is such they can't

:16:13.:16:24.

easily identify which have been accepted is or rejected. What we

:16:25.:16:30.

need to see is a much greater information sharing. Was there an

:16:31.:16:35.

issue with Gift Aid being wrongly declared, knowingly by people, do

:16:36.:16:41.

you think? I don't think, I think most people claim Gift Aid end in a

:16:42.:16:44.

legitimate way, there is no reason to suggest there is an issue of

:16:45.:16:50.

people trying to claim it. First of all, the Gift Aid not being fit for

:16:51.:16:56.

the modern age where people are using digital platforms, but there's

:16:57.:17:00.

there is an issue round whether Gift Aid itself is, you know, been

:17:01.:17:05.

designed in a way that helps people to maximise their donations and that

:17:06.:17:11.

they understand that. That requires them to educate about Gift Aid and

:17:12.:17:18.

what a good donation is an what is eligible and ineligible. Thank you.

:17:19.:17:24.

HMR said: They also told us they work very

:17:25.:17:31.

closely with charities to ensure the gift aid rules are applied

:17:32.:17:34.

correctly and they receive the full Magical memories of TV magic

:17:35.:17:37.

virtuoso Paul Daniels, And the sightings of bright flashes

:17:38.:17:43.

of blue or green across the sky all over the UK in the early

:17:44.:17:53.

hours of this morning. Tributes have been paid

:17:54.:18:01.

to the magician and comedian, Paul Daniels, who's

:18:02.:18:08.

died at the age of 77. He became one of the biggest stars

:18:09.:18:10.

on TV during the eighties, thanks to the BBC's

:18:11.:18:13.

The Paul Daniels Magic Show, which he presented alongside

:18:14.:18:15.

his wife Debbie McGee. She was at his side

:18:16.:18:17.

when he died this morning. The Chancellor George Osborne has

:18:18.:18:22.

told the BBC he remains confident that UK public finances will be

:18:23.:18:25.

back in surplus by 2020. He's defended the decisions made

:18:26.:18:27.

in yesterday's budget, in which he announced higher

:18:28.:18:29.

public borrowing ahead - citing the slowing UK economy

:18:30.:18:31.

and global economic jitters. MPs will debate Mr Osborne's plans

:18:32.:18:34.

in parliament later. I have set out the plans

:18:35.:18:37.

in the budget, and then a completely independent body, which even

:18:38.:18:40.

respects called the Office for Budget Responsibility has looked

:18:41.:18:42.

at the plans and it says if you hold to the course, if you deliver those

:18:43.:18:45.

plans, if the economy grows as expected, then we will have

:18:46.:18:48.

a surplus towards the end David Cameron travels to Brussels

:18:49.:18:50.

today for more talks He'll attend a summit of EU leaders,

:18:51.:18:57.

which is set to be dominated by a proposed deal with Turkey,

:18:58.:19:01.

amid warnings that Greece is becoming a refugee camp

:19:02.:19:04.

for the rest of Europe. The number of migrants waiting

:19:05.:19:06.

at the Greece-Macedonia border The Kurdish militant group TAK has

:19:07.:19:08.

claimed responsibility for Sunday's terror attack in the Turkish

:19:09.:19:16.

capital, that killed 37 people. In an online statement the group

:19:17.:19:19.

said the bombing in Ankara was revenge for military operations

:19:20.:19:21.

carried out by Turkey in Kurdish The number of women

:19:22.:19:24.

and under-18-year-olds arrested for alleged terror-related

:19:25.:19:35.

offences has been rising - but overall numbers show

:19:36.:19:37.

a slight dip in the UK. 280 arrests were made during 2015,

:19:38.:19:39.

9 fewer than the previous year. The number of under 18s arrested -

:19:40.:19:42.

16 - is now at its highest Owners of dangerous dogs will face

:19:43.:19:45.

harsher sentences if the animals have been deliberately

:19:46.:19:53.

trained to be aggressive, under new sentencing guidelines

:19:54.:19:55.

in England and Wales. It comes after a number of changes

:19:56.:19:57.

to the law including a new offence Now for the sport. Arsene Wenger is

:19:58.:20:11.

full of praise for Barcelona strikers saying they transform

:20:12.:20:16.

normal life into art, after Arsenal were knocked out of the Champions

:20:17.:20:21.

League last night. Suarez gave Barca the lead with this volley. His 17th

:20:22.:20:27.

in 14 games. That was before who else, Messi produced this finish to

:20:28.:20:32.

make it 3-1 on the night, 5-1 on aggregate. The sixth year in a row

:20:33.:20:36.

Arsenal have lost in the last 16. It is a huge night at Old Trafford

:20:37.:20:41.

tonight, how important for that man, Louis van Gaal, his side take on

:20:42.:20:45.

Liverpool for a place in the quarterfinals of the Europa League.

:20:46.:20:49.

United 2-0 down from that first leg. Hartlepool -- Louis van Gaal says

:20:50.:20:53.

they must deliver. Danny Care and Vunipola will start for England as

:20:54.:20:58.

they go for their Grand Slam title since 2003 against France. So two

:20:59.:21:04.

changes in Paris with Ben Youngs and Joe mar he dropping to the Ben: The

:21:05.:21:12.

coach said we have our best 23. Can England's women fare better than the

:21:13.:21:20.

men in their opening T20 match. They chose to bat first. The captain has

:21:21.:21:27.

that boundary, she is still at the crease, England 60-1 in the ninth

:21:28.:21:30.

over. We will have more on the news channel throughout the day.

:21:31.:21:42.

More on the budget. George Osborne is insisting the UK will be back in

:21:43.:21:49.

the black by 2020 as promised. Providing the the economy keeps on

:21:50.:21:52.

are going, let us go to Norman Smith. So everyone has had a bit of

:21:53.:21:57.

time to unpick what he unveiled yesterday, tell us your thoughts.

:21:58.:22:01.

Here is the Red Book, it is only today we get a chance to go through

:22:02.:22:06.

it all, and, all sorts of creepy-crawlies come out. The

:22:07.:22:10.

biggest centres on the Chancellor's big idea which is he wants by the

:22:11.:22:14.

end of this Parliament to balance the book, more to make sure we have

:22:15.:22:20.

some cash to spare, that we have had a surplus, what he is aiming for is

:22:21.:22:26.

a ?10 billion surplus, in other words, we will have 10 billion quid

:22:27.:22:32.

in the bank. Now, a lot of people are pretty iffy about whether that

:22:33.:22:36.

is possible, because when you look at the numbers, it shows that in the

:22:37.:22:41.

last year of the Parliament, there is some heroic assumptions there, in

:22:42.:22:46.

the last year the Parliament, we will actually have a ?20 billion

:22:47.:22:50.

deficit, in other words, we will be ?20 billion in the red and in the

:22:51.:22:54.

space of a year, the Chancellor wants to turn that into a ?10

:22:55.:23:01.

billion surplus, now, the institute, the Office for Budget

:23:02.:23:03.

Responsibility, the people who kind of cast their eye over the

:23:04.:23:06.

Chancellor's numbers to make sure they add up, they have said frankly

:23:07.:23:12.

there is only a 55% chance, half-and-half chance of Mr Osborne

:23:13.:23:16.

being able to meet that central objective, more than that, the big

:23:17.:23:23.

think-tank in this area, the Institute for Fiscal Studies said we

:23:24.:23:28.

don't think we can probably do this without more tax rises and spending

:23:29.:23:32.

cuts. Mr Osborne was insisting that wouldn't be necessary this morning.

:23:33.:23:37.

I have set out the plan, in the budget, and then a completely

:23:38.:23:40.

independent body, which everyone respects called the Office for

:23:41.:23:43.

Budget Responsibility, has looked at the plans and it says if you hold to

:23:44.:23:48.

course, if you deliver the plan, if the economy grows as expected, then

:23:49.:23:53.

we will have a surplus towards the end of the Parliament, so we

:23:54.:23:58.

wouldn't need anything extra like more spending tax cuts or increase,

:23:59.:24:02.

we don't need those things now because we have the plans and the

:24:03.:24:06.

plans are assessed to deliver the security.

:24:07.:24:11.

The The other creepy-crawly to come out of this Red Book Joanna is Mr

:24:12.:24:14.

Importance's argument that the reason the economy is struggling, is

:24:15.:24:19.

basically because of everyone else, the global slow down, he told us

:24:20.:24:23.

yesterday, let me give you his words, he said the outlock for the

:24:24.:24:28.

global economy is weak and makes it a dangerous cocktail of risks, for

:24:29.:24:32.

the UK. In other words, it is the slow down in China, it is

:24:33.:24:35.

instability in the Middle East, it is plummeting oil price, it is all

:24:36.:24:40.

those sort of things that are causing us problems, but when you go

:24:41.:24:44.

through the Red Book, what appears to be the real issue is

:24:45.:24:50.

productivity, what we actually produce, as individuals, and the

:24:51.:24:53.

Office for Budget Responsibility say talk of the amount we produce

:24:54.:24:57.

getting better is a false dawn, in other words, it is not happening, we

:24:58.:25:01.

are not improving the amount of stuff we produce. Now, here is a

:25:02.:25:05.

surprise thing you might think OK, well, I kind of think we don't

:25:06.:25:10.

produce as much as the Germans and probably not as much as American

:25:11.:25:14.

workers but do you know we don't produce as much as the presence or

:25:15.:25:19.

the Italian, you think of the Italians and you think of siestas

:25:20.:25:23.

and a nice sunny life style but they work harder and produce more than us

:25:24.:25:28.

and that seems to be one of the main reasons we are in such economic

:25:29.:25:33.

difficulties. Norman, also a row brewing over cuts to benefits that

:25:34.:25:37.

have been announced. A real storm seems to be building up here,

:25:38.:25:42.

because you know, the biggest amount of cuts pencilled in by the

:25:43.:25:46.

Chancellor yesterday were actually on disability benefit, he is

:25:47.:25:52.

planning to trim round ?4 billion from the personal independence

:25:53.:25:56.

payments, which are given to people with disabilities to help them get

:25:57.:26:00.

back in to work, to help them with transport costs and the extra

:26:01.:26:03.

support they need to get back in to work. He wants to hack back round 4

:26:04.:26:08.

billion from that and there is a lot of unease in the Conservative Party

:26:09.:26:12.

too, it thatn't sort of broken out publicly but a lot of Tory MPs are

:26:13.:26:16.

saying hang on, how is this going to work? What are the details of this

:26:17.:26:22.

and why are we cuts benefits for the disabled when we are offering tax

:26:23.:26:25.

cuts to better off families, never mind Labour who are trying to find a

:26:26.:26:31.

way of forcing a vote on the issue. This was their Shadow Chancellor

:26:32.:26:36.

this morning. We are urging them now to think very carefully about then

:26:37.:26:40.

decisions that George Osborne made yesterday, because we have always

:26:41.:26:43.

said austerity is not an economic necessity, it is a political choice,

:26:44.:26:46.

he made his choices yesterday. He decided he would cut the taxes of

:26:47.:26:52.

capital gains tax to the ripest five % in society. He would pay for that

:26:53.:26:56.

by cutting benefits to people with disability, that is unacceptable.

:26:57.:27:02.

You know what this reminds me a bit of, it is early days but it has the

:27:03.:27:06.

potential to be another I tax credit row, you remember before the Autumn

:27:07.:27:13.

Statement, Mr Osborne wanted to pare back on tax credits and he was

:27:14.:27:17.

forced to back off. You get the sense this could develop into a

:27:18.:27:20.

similar problem for Mr Osborne. The only thing that makes it harder for

:27:21.:27:25.

him to back off is because saving this 4 billion is absolutely central

:27:26.:27:31.

if he is to get anywhere near his key objective of balancing the books

:27:32.:27:35.

and achieving that surplus. Thank you Norman.

:27:36.:27:41.

A major care company facing a bill for hundreds of thousands of pounds

:27:42.:27:45.

for nonpayment of the minimum wage, in an out of court settlement it has

:27:46.:27:50.

paid ?1250 to a care worker who hadn't been paid for time spent

:27:51.:27:54.

travelling between client, it could face a group action lawsuit by other

:27:55.:27:58.

workers. Zoe Conway from Radio 4's

:27:59.:28:02.

Today Programme has been The career worked for the company in

:28:03.:28:10.

Devon, a rural part of the country, so she was travelling between her

:28:11.:28:15.

elderly clients, visiting them, to wash them, to feed them, and to give

:28:16.:28:19.

them their medication, and because it was such a rural community she

:28:20.:28:24.

was working in she would travel great distances to visit them, often

:28:25.:28:27.

down narrow country roads, she took me on a tour of her work once and I

:28:28.:28:31.

could see that you know, there might be times when she was stuck behind a

:28:32.:28:35.

tractor and it could take more than half an hour to get to a client, but

:28:36.:28:39.

she wasn't being paid for any of that travel time. Not only that, as

:28:40.:28:43.

a result of not being paid for that travel time, she claimed that the

:28:44.:28:47.

company was in breach of the minimum wage regulation, so that is why she

:28:48.:28:51.

brought this case, that is why she was awarded this money and it was

:28:52.:28:55.

settled out of court by the company a few days ago. What are the

:28:56.:28:59.

implications of this? The interesting question is whether

:29:00.:29:04.

other carers come forward. The solicitors who represented her are

:29:05.:29:09.

appealing for carers to come forward and bring their own case, they think

:29:10.:29:13.

there could be hundreds that could benefit from a lawsuit. If you think

:29:14.:29:17.

about it, given the fact she got more than 1,000 pounds and she

:29:18.:29:21.

worked for the company for less than six months, row could see this could

:29:22.:29:25.

be costly, if enough of the carers come forward, that is what they are

:29:26.:29:30.

appealing for them to do. What is being said about, this, done about

:29:31.:29:33.

this? Is the Government, is there anything from the Government on it?

:29:34.:29:37.

I should say that the company have issued a statement to us, and have

:29:38.:29:41.

said they are disappointed that Caroline Barlow has chosen to take

:29:42.:29:45.

this action, the point they make is that since last year they have

:29:46.:29:51.

corrected carers ear pay where they thought it was necessary. They paid

:29:52.:29:58.

100 up to 2,000. The big of Government that is responsible for

:29:59.:30:03.

making sure that the minimum wage is paid is HM revenue ands can top,

:30:04.:30:07.

they have launched an inquiry into the big six care company, more than

:30:08.:30:11.

a year ago, I have asked them, where is this investigation at, what are

:30:12.:30:15.

we? Unfortunately, they can't tell us. Thank you very much.

:30:16.:30:20.

The Sentencing Council has today published new guidelines

:30:21.:30:22.

on punishments for dangerous dogs offences.

:30:23.:30:23.

Current guidelines allow judges to sentence people to a maximum

:30:24.:30:25.

of fourteen years in prison for the most serious offences.

:30:26.:30:28.

New recommendations will respond to changes in the law which now

:30:29.:30:31.

extend to attacks on private property and on guide dogs.

:30:32.:30:54.

She spent months in hospital and despite that, still owns three dogs.

:30:55.:31:05.

We are joined by a Chair of the Magistrates Association as well.

:31:06.:31:09.

Tell us what happened to you, Amanda? I was exercising a dog that

:31:10.:31:17.

came in as a stray. It lasted eight weeks, he was fine and, out of the

:31:18.:31:21.

blue he attacked me. An hour-and-a-half it was, he kept

:31:22.:31:25.

coming back and taking chunks off me; I lost my left arm, nearly lost

:31:26.:31:30.

my right arm, he ripped a hole in my back, took muscle from my leg. Not a

:31:31.:31:36.

very nice experience in all. Did you fear he was going to kill you? Yes.

:31:37.:31:43.

I knew that if he could have got my throat, that would have been the end

:31:44.:31:48.

of me. So you did everything you could to protect your throat which

:31:49.:31:53.

saved your life potentially? Yes, yes, I stayed on my front and just

:31:54.:31:58.

tried to keep the dog calm because, if you panic in that sort of

:31:59.:32:02.

situation, because I worked with dogs I knew if I panicked any more

:32:03.:32:06.

than I was, he would have got into more of a frenzy and ripped me even

:32:07.:32:10.

harder. Oh, you said it was a dog that had

:32:11.:32:14.

been brought into the kennels, what did you know about what had happened

:32:15.:32:20.

to that dog prior to coming to you? To be honest with you, not a lot.

:32:21.:32:27.

But after the accident happened, we later discovered the dog had been

:32:28.:32:30.

chipped and had belonged to a lady who was banned from owning and

:32:31.:32:33.

breeding dangerous dogs and the police had taken her to court, she'd

:32:34.:32:40.

gone through all the trial, they'd decided she couldn't keep dogs any

:32:41.:32:43.

longer, but instead of taking the dogs from her, they left it to her

:32:44.:32:47.

to get rid of the dogs, and from what we can gather, she just

:32:48.:32:51.

released them into the streets and that's how they came to me. Do you

:32:52.:32:59.

think any dog or any certain breeds can turn like this, or does it come

:33:00.:33:03.

down to the way they have been handled and treated? 99% of the

:33:04.:33:08.

time, there's not a bad dog, it's a bad owner.

:33:09.:33:13.

So what do you think about the idea that sentences will be increased for

:33:14.:33:17.

owners of dangerous dogs who have trained that dog to be aggressive?

:33:18.:33:24.

If they can prosecute the owner before the dog's attacked somebody,

:33:25.:33:27.

I think it's a good law. But if the dog has already killed somebody or

:33:28.:33:31.

badly maimed them, it's like shutting the door after the horse

:33:32.:33:36.

has bolted, it's too late. I know you have said previously you

:33:37.:33:41.

have likened dog ownership to gun ownership, what do you mean by that?

:33:42.:33:47.

Sorry? You have previously likened dog ownership to gun ownership, what

:33:48.:33:56.

do you mean by that? Yes, yes. Well, they police guns strongly, but when

:33:57.:33:59.

it comes to dogs, police are aware of where the dogs are and who the

:34:00.:34:04.

owners are, but there's nothing being done about it, nothing. Until

:34:05.:34:08.

it's too late and the dogs attack somebody. Malcolm, you are chair of

:34:09.:34:13.

the Magistrates Association, the new guidelines, how will they be

:34:14.:34:17.

applied, what difference will they make? Parliament updated the law in

:34:18.:34:25.

2014 and the new guidelines from the Sentencing Council are coming into

:34:26.:34:30.

effect as of the 1st July but are being published today. They have the

:34:31.:34:37.

effect of giving us guidance as to how we should sentence under the new

:34:38.:34:40.

penalties which are significantly more severe. As you said in the

:34:41.:34:46.

introduction, they extend the law in various areas like private houses

:34:47.:34:51.

and so on. Give us some examples of sentencing then and what difference

:34:52.:34:58.

it could make? Well, the two major areas are firstly the new areas

:34:59.:35:02.

which have been brought into the offences which are where attacks

:35:03.:35:06.

occur on private property, it clarifies the position on that and

:35:07.:35:10.

specifically makes an offence of where an attack takes place on a

:35:11.:35:15.

guide dog which everybody can appreciate has significant

:35:16.:35:17.

consequences, almost unimaginable consequences for the person who is

:35:18.:35:21.

absolutely dependent upon that guide dog. Many of the most severe cases

:35:22.:35:26.

will of course go to the crown court and be dealt with by judge and jury,

:35:27.:35:31.

so magistrates will typically be dealing with the less serious. But

:35:32.:35:36.

quite often more numerous numbers of offences that we see before us.

:35:37.:35:41.

Do these changes that magistrates have wanted to see -- have these

:35:42.:35:44.

changes that magistrates have wanted to see? It's not more members of the

:35:45.:35:50.

judiciary to call for changes in the law, but certainly, I have no

:35:51.:35:54.

evidence to suggest there is any resistance to them and I think some

:35:55.:36:00.

people have felt frustrated probably in the past. But, as your previous

:36:01.:36:08.

person said, of course, we get into the process as members of the

:36:09.:36:12.

judiciary at the point where an attack has occurred and so there is

:36:13.:36:16.

a certain amount of closing the stable door. But we do have to, as a

:36:17.:36:24.

society, recognise that certain actions deserve punishment.

:36:25.:36:27.

How much flexibility has there been in terms of the punishment? Well,

:36:28.:36:33.

there is always a flexibility and the judiciary welcomes that because

:36:34.:36:36.

each individual circumstance is different. That's why they're

:36:37.:36:41.

guidelines and not tram lines as colleagues often say. But they give

:36:42.:36:45.

you a starting point, they give you a way to approach in a structured

:36:46.:36:51.

way making your decision in order that magistrates can inform victims,

:36:52.:36:58.

defendants, society, as a hole, as to whey we think that's the

:36:59.:37:02.

appropriate sentence. Mandy, as you both pointed out, the sentencing

:37:03.:37:06.

guidelines at the point after which a dog has carried out an attack,

:37:07.:37:10.

what do you think would make a difference in trying to prevent

:37:11.:37:15.

attacks? This is what I think we need to do - it's about prevention,

:37:16.:37:20.

it's better than cure. There are people out there that have known

:37:21.:37:25.

aggressive dogs and, in my mind, they should be seized, they should

:37:26.:37:29.

be tested and, if they are as aggressive as we think and know they

:37:30.:37:35.

are, they should be destroyed. But that owner will probably go out and

:37:36.:37:40.

get the same type of dog again. They need to bring something in to

:37:41.:37:44.

prevent this, rather than cure it. Malcolm, how common are cases like

:37:45.:37:49.

this in magistrates courts? Evidence is they are getting more common.

:37:50.:37:52.

Does that mean there are more dangerous dogs or does it mean the

:37:53.:37:55.

prosecuting authorities are being more acidious in bringing such

:37:56.:37:58.

matters to court rather than either not dealing with them at all or

:37:59.:38:02.

dealing with them in an alternative way. Parliament's said that we

:38:03.:38:08.

should be considering these as a society more seriously than we have

:38:09.:38:11.

in the past so the judiciary has a role to play when matters are

:38:12.:38:15.

brought to the court. We will obviously follow and enforce the

:38:16.:38:19.

guidelines that are shortly to be in place which recognise that these

:38:20.:38:22.

matters are more serious than previously society deemed them to

:38:23.:38:24.

be. Thank you both very much, Malcolm

:38:25.:38:29.

and Mandy. Now, Paul Daniels was 77 and had

:38:30.:38:39.

been diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumour last month. Lots of

:38:40.:38:44.

reaction on social media. Scott Penrose tweets, a sad day for the

:38:45.:38:48.

magic world, rest in peace, our friend Paul Daniels.

:38:49.:39:36.

That is just about all from all of us today. We'll leave you with a

:39:37.:39:42.

reminder of how Paul Daniels entertained millions of people. See

:39:43.:39:43.

you tomorrow. You will have been stand thering

:39:44.:40:38.

with a pack of cards that you have actually been holding from the start

:40:39.:40:42.

of the trick. It's been rapped around several times with red, white

:40:43.:40:48.

and blue ribbon which we have been saving up since somebody's Jubilee

:40:49.:40:52.

and you will find that if you unwrap this now, you will see in this half

:40:53.:40:56.

of the pack which is just a pack of cards, that is all, you will see in

:40:57.:40:59.

this half of the pack there's a jack of spades, eight of diamonds, seven

:41:00.:41:03.

of diamonds, ace of spades, the eight of hearts, the two of hearts,

:41:04.:41:08.

ten of clubs, nine of clubs, nine of hearts, two of spades, King of

:41:09.:41:12.

spades, Queen of diamonds, King of hearts, jack of haars, ace of club,

:41:13.:41:16.

six of hearts, five of clubs, four of diamonds, three of spades and

:41:17.:41:20.

your card last but by no means least the seven of clubs and I know that

:41:21.:41:24.

not only you saw your cards but I know that the people who thought of

:41:25.:41:27.

a card at home will have seen their card and that's magicment. -- magic.

:41:28.:41:36.

Tonight we are going to ring the changes and do something different

:41:37.:41:40.

for you. The things kids and grown-ups dream of but never ever

:41:41.:41:41.

get the chance to do. # It's a fantasy everybody needs

:41:42.:41:51.

# Every now and then you know # Yes tonight we are going to ring

:41:52.:41:54.

the changes # Tonight you are going to see the

:41:55.:41:57.

greatest show. # In fact, roll up, roll up ladies

:41:58.:42:01.

and gentlemen because tonight # Paul Daniel's show is pleased to

:42:02.:42:06.

present for you, the human cannon ball, the sensation of the universe,

:42:07.:42:13.

Debra will be appearing later, so will jumbo junior, the elephant

:42:14.:42:14.

wonder. Later in the show ladies and

:42:15.:42:31.

gentlemen in the circus we'll present the clown cavalry laughs

:42:32.:42:33.

galore in funny disguises. # Yes, tonight

:42:34.:42:51.

# We are putting on a circus # Putting on a circus for you

:42:52.:42:56.

# Tonight we are putting on a circus # We are doing things that circus

:42:57.:42:59.

people do # It's a fantasy everybody needs

:43:00.:43:05.

# Every now and then you know # Yes, tonight, we are putting on a

:43:06.:43:08.

circus # Tonight we are gonna see the

:43:09.:43:12.

greatest show! # . Tonight, ladies and gentlemen,

:43:13.:43:18.

descending into the centre of the ring, the lovely Debra, the Queen of

:43:19.:43:23.

the air, my gentlemen assistants will cover the young lady from

:43:24.:43:27.

head-to-toe, but at all times please keep your eye on her lovely costume,

:43:28.:43:30.

ladies and gentlemen. Now, having got her covered from head-to-toe,

:43:31.:43:34.

I'll tell you what we are going to do, we are going to move the young

:43:35.:43:38.

lady back up into space where she came from. Take her away higher and

:43:39.:43:42.

higher and then she ascends above the circus ring, watch very closely.

:43:43.:43:47.

Three, two, one! Go!

:43:48.:43:52.

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