04/04/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


04/04/2016

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 04/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello, it's Monday, it's 9am, I'm Victoria Derbyshire -

:00:08.:00:10.

How some of the world's richest and most

:00:11.:00:17.

powerful people hide their money in secret off-shore accounts.

:00:18.:00:19.

We'll bring you details of the biggest ever leak

:00:20.:00:23.

of confidential documents, which show just how tax

:00:24.:00:25.

Also this week, we put the London Mayoral hopefuls

:00:26.:00:40.

through their paces in our series, Cab Share.

:00:41.:00:44.

This morning, it's the turn of Labour's candidate Sadiq Khan.

:00:45.:00:47.

Does his knowledge stand up to the test?:

:00:48.:00:49.

Who plays at Selhurst Park? Crystal Palace. Where Angie and then from?

:00:50.:01:01.

In standers. I need an ECG, I cannot cope with

:01:02.:01:12.

this, it is going to happen, we are going to win the league.

:01:13.:01:14.

We'll bring you the latest in our video diaries

:01:15.:01:18.

With just six games to go they're now seven points clear

:01:19.:01:26.

of their rivals to win the Premier League.

:01:27.:01:29.

Hello, welcome to the programme, we're on-air at the earlier time

:01:30.:01:33.

Throughout the morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news

:01:34.:01:37.

and developing stories - if you're getting in touch with us

:01:38.:01:40.

on the stories in the news, do use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE.

:01:41.:01:42.

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:01:43.:01:46.

A huge cache of confidential documents has

:01:47.:01:49.

revealed how the rich and powerful use tax havens to hide their wealth.

:01:50.:01:53.

11-million documents were leaked from one of the world's most

:01:54.:02:02.

secretive companies, Panamanian law firm Mossack Fonseca.

:02:03.:02:03.

They show how it helped clients launder money,

:02:04.:02:07.

The company says it has operated beyond reproach for 40 years,

:02:08.:02:12.

and has never been charged with criminal wrong-doing.

:02:13.:02:14.

It is a unique glimpse of how offshore works.

:02:15.:02:24.

For 40 years, Mossack Fonseca have helped the rich and powerful

:02:25.:02:27.

The documents were leaked to the German newspaper

:02:28.:02:34.

Suddeutsche Zeitung, and shared with the International Consortium

:02:35.:02:36.

Panorama has been analysing the documents.

:02:37.:02:42.

They show how far Mossack Fonseca was prepared to go to

:02:43.:02:45.

I wanted to earn enough money so I can create the life I really

:02:46.:02:54.

Marianna Olszewski is a business guru on American television.

:02:55.:02:59.

It's all about living the life of your dreams and taking

:03:00.:03:02.

That's exactly what she wanted to do, to bring back $1.8 million

:03:03.:03:08.

But she did not want to reveal her identity.

:03:09.:03:17.

The files show Mossack Fonseca came up with a solution.

:03:18.:03:20.

Faking the ownership of a company is a blatant breach

:03:21.:03:32.

When a company like Mossack Fonseca offers fake beneficial owner

:03:33.:03:42.

services, that is completely undermining international efforts

:03:43.:03:51.

to open up company ownership, then you completely pull the rug out

:03:52.:03:54.

Ms Olszewski didn't respond to our questions.

:03:55.:03:57.

Mossack Fonseca say the allegations are unsupported and false.

:03:58.:04:02.

They have always complied with international protocols

:04:03.:04:05.

to ensure companies are not used for illicit purposes.

:04:06.:04:10.

And we can talk to Richard Bilton now.

:04:11.:04:16.

Tell us more about this huge leak? It is the scale of the leak that

:04:17.:04:25.

gives us this unprecedented glimpse into the secret world of offshore.

:04:26.:04:30.

Mossack Fonseca thought products like foundations and trusts and

:04:31.:04:34.

nominee directorships, these can be used legally but in the files it is

:04:35.:04:38.

clear they were being used to hide people's wealth from the

:04:39.:04:43.

authorities. Initially, the leak was to a German newspaper, Suddeutsche

:04:44.:04:48.

Zeitung, and they passed it onto the international consortium of

:04:49.:04:50.

investigative journalists, and in the UK that is the BBC panorama and

:04:51.:04:55.

the Guardian newspaper, but around the world there are 100 and the

:04:56.:04:59.

media organisations poring over these files. It is that breadth, the

:05:00.:05:12.

depth, if you like, of the number of people involved in these files, 72

:05:13.:05:15.

current or former heads of state in the files, including dictators like

:05:16.:05:16.

Gaddafi. Tell us more about some of the deal

:05:17.:05:20.

is contained in the files? It is worth bearing in mind that

:05:21.:05:24.

Mossack Fonseca promised their clients absolute confidentiality, so

:05:25.:05:28.

these are arrangements that people bought nobody would see, not us, not

:05:29.:05:33.

the authorities, not anyone, they were all snuck away, but now we can

:05:34.:05:37.

see them and there are some eye-catching ones, for example a

:05:38.:05:40.

suspected billion-dollar money-laundering ring being operated

:05:41.:05:48.

by people who are close associate of President Putin, that is what seems

:05:49.:05:53.

to spring from the files. There is also the Icelandic Prime Minister,

:05:54.:05:57.

Sigmundur Gunnlaugsson, he had an undeclared interest in an offshore

:05:58.:06:01.

company, he says he has not done anything wrong, he is facing calls

:06:02.:06:05.

for resignation in Iceland. The thing that struck me is there are

:06:06.:06:08.

these big names in the files and we are drawn to them, but it is the

:06:09.:06:13.

deals that are out there where people are just using these

:06:14.:06:19.

Panamanian trusts and foundations to just lie, to hide their financial

:06:20.:06:22.

business a way from the authorities, to say, for example, avoid tax on a

:06:23.:06:28.

London property. Some people on Twitter for example

:06:29.:06:33.

are saying, what a shock! Very, very rich people hide their money and try

:06:34.:06:38.

to evade tax! Tell me something I don't know!

:06:39.:06:41.

But it does matter, tell us why? It really does matter, the case that

:06:42.:06:47.

you saw before involving the American business Guru, it is a key

:06:48.:06:50.

case from the files because the headline figures, the shocking

:06:51.:06:54.

stories will get headlines, but in reality what we can see from the

:06:55.:06:56.

files is they were offering products and deals... Sorry, I have lost my

:06:57.:07:03.

earpiece. Things that would allow you to get around international

:07:04.:07:07.

regulations on money laundering, so for example the UK Government at the

:07:08.:07:10.

moment have a register of beneficial owners, and what that is meant to do

:07:11.:07:19.

is to basically allow us to see who owns UK companies, to see a public

:07:20.:07:24.

list of who was behind them. In international finance, it is quite a

:07:25.:07:30.

common practice, because if you are a bank or an accountancy firm or a

:07:31.:07:36.

lawyer, you need to know who it is that you are dealing with otherwise

:07:37.:07:41.

you could be unwittingly helping money-laundering, tax evasion, any

:07:42.:07:46.

kind of nefarious activity. What we see in these files is a case where

:07:47.:07:50.

they are selling fake ownership details could hide a wealthy

:07:51.:07:54.

client's money from the authorities, which is in direct breach of the

:07:55.:08:00.

money-laundering regulations. And the company itself, what does it

:08:01.:08:09.

say? I did think Richard can hear us, but the company itself says it

:08:10.:08:14.

has operated beyond approach for 40 years and that they have never been

:08:15.:08:17.

accused or charged in connection with criminal wrongdoing or

:08:18.:08:21.

allegations it sold fake beneficial ownership details, and they believe

:08:22.:08:25.

those allegations are unsupported and false.

:08:26.:08:29.

We have a statement from HMRC: HMRC can confirm we have received a great

:08:30.:08:33.

deal of information on offshore companies including in Panama from a

:08:34.:08:38.

wide range of sources, which is currently the subject of an

:08:39.:08:40.

intensive investigation. We will have a conversation about

:08:41.:08:47.

what has been revealed in this huge cache of files that has been leaked,

:08:48.:08:50.

that is in the next ten minutes or so.

:08:51.:08:57.

You can see the Panorama programme Tax Havens Of The Rich

:08:58.:09:02.

And Powerful Exposed tonight

:09:03.:09:04.

Ben Brown is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of the rest

:09:05.:09:08.

The first migrants to be returned from Greece to Turkey under

:09:09.:09:11.

a controversial EU deal have docked in the Turkish port of Dikili.

:09:12.:09:14.

It's thought the vast majority were from Pakistan and had not

:09:15.:09:17.

They arrived here hoping for a better life in Europe.

:09:18.:09:24.

But under the repatriation deal struck last month between the EU

:09:25.:09:45.

and Turkey, the first 130 or so migrants have been deported

:09:46.:10:09.

and those who arrived illegally will be sent back if they don't

:10:10.:10:12.

apply for asylum, or if their claim is rejected.

:10:13.:10:14.

Both Turkey and Greece have made a panicked rush

:10:15.:10:16.

Neither country appears to be fully ready for the move,

:10:17.:10:20.

with only a fraction of the necessary staff having

:10:21.:10:22.

arrived on the Greek islands to accompany the process.

:10:23.:10:24.

Human rights groups have also raised concerns over the lack of safeguards

:10:25.:10:27.

We feel that there are still deficiencies and gaps in both

:10:28.:10:31.

We're not opposed to returns as long as people are not in need

:10:32.:10:35.

of international protection, they have not applied for asylum

:10:36.:10:37.

The aim is to ease the uncontrolled movement of people into western

:10:38.:10:42.

Europe, many of whom take the dangerous sea route

:10:43.:10:44.

But with around 400 migrants arriving on the Greek islands each

:10:45.:10:47.

day, it seems it's doing little to discourage those desperate

:10:48.:10:50.

Union leaders meet in London today to plan the next steps

:10:51.:10:54.

of their campaign to save the British steel industry.

:10:55.:10:56.

Tata Steel announced last week it was selling

:10:57.:10:58.

There'll also be a meeting this morning of a Wales Tata taskforce -

:10:59.:11:02.

including representatives of the Welsh Assembly Transport

:11:03.:11:03.

This afternoon an emergency session of the Welsh Assembly will discuss

:11:04.:11:11.

the crisis hanging over the Port Talbot plant.

:11:12.:11:13.

There are calls for doping in sport to be made a criminal offence.

:11:14.:11:17.

Lord Moynihan, the former chairman of the British Olympic Association,

:11:18.:11:19.

has started a petition calling for a change in the law.

:11:20.:11:22.

It follows allegations in the Sunday Times of performance

:11:23.:11:24.

enhancing drugs being taken in a range of sports -

:11:25.:11:26.

including boxing, football and cricket.

:11:27.:11:42.

A murder investigation has been launched after a 17-year-old boy

:11:43.:11:45.

was stabbed to death in south-east London.

:11:46.:11:46.

Officers were called to reports of an altercation between a number

:11:47.:11:52.

of youths in Lewisham, at around 8pm on Sunday evening.

:11:53.:11:54.

The victim, found in nearby was taken to hospital

:11:55.:11:56.

Two men - aged 15 and 16 - are currently being held in custody

:11:57.:12:01.

Labour's candidate for London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, has said taxi drivers

:12:02.:12:05.

in the capital must be able to speak decent English.

:12:06.:12:07.

He said Uber drivers should have to go through the same checks that

:12:08.:12:10.

He was giving an interview in a cab to the BBC's assistant

:12:11.:12:14.

They're so expensive, they're all disabled-friendly,

:12:15.:12:20.

the criminal checks, the Knowledge you've got to do -

:12:21.:12:22.

rather than levelling down your high standards,

:12:23.:12:24.

let's level up the private hire vehicle standards.

:12:25.:12:26.

Speaking English, doing security checks.

:12:27.:12:28.

How does that work, do they have English tests?

:12:29.:12:30.

Yeah, we will need to bring up the standards.

:12:31.:12:32.

Basic English should be a requirement if you are a public

:12:33.:12:38.

And if they don't get that, they wouldn't be able to operate

:12:39.:12:42.

In my view, if you're in any public facing job,

:12:43.:12:46.

you should have to speak basic English.

:12:47.:12:47.

And you can hear more from that interview with London mayoral

:12:48.:12:50.

Dame Judi Dench has became the most successful actor in the history

:12:51.:12:59.

The veteran actress picked up a record eighth gong for best

:13:00.:13:03.

supporting actress for her role in The Winter's Tale.

:13:04.:13:05.

No-one has won as many Oliviers for acting since the awards began

:13:06.:13:08.

I had a bet with my grandson, which I've now lost.

:13:09.:13:17.

And I'm never going to be allowed to forget it.

:13:18.:13:20.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News, Victoria -

:13:21.:13:22.

A little later in the programme we'll bring you video diaries

:13:23.:13:35.

from our Leicester fans and we'll look at the huge popularity of MMA -

:13:36.:13:38.

or mixed martial arts - it's also known as cage fighting,

:13:39.:13:41.

and in particular it's popularity amongst working professionals.

:13:42.:13:43.

We've followed one recruitment consultant as he prepares

:13:44.:13:45.

If you're into MMA - why do you do it?

:13:46.:13:49.

You can get in touch via FB, Twitter, text,

:13:50.:13:51.

What a match that was yesterday, I feel so sorry for the England

:13:52.:14:12.

players. Yes, Ben Stokes in particular. A

:14:13.:14:16.

thrilling finish to the world Twenty20, double joy for the West

:14:17.:14:20.

Indies fans as they took the women's and men's title and we will see

:14:21.:14:24.

their celebrations in a moment. But disappointing for England's men, 54

:14:25.:14:29.

from Joe Root, helping England to a chase a ball target of 155, but

:14:30.:14:34.

excellent fielding left the West Indies needing 19 from the final

:14:35.:14:38.

over, Carlos Brathwaite hitting four straight sixes to statutes victory

:14:39.:14:43.

from the jaws of defeat which left Ben Stokes and go dejected, but the

:14:44.:14:48.

victors jubilant after a tournament they merely boycotted.

:14:49.:14:53.

Jubilation, too, the Leicester City, amazingly in the space of one year

:14:54.:14:56.

going from seven point away from Premier League safety and facing

:14:57.:15:00.

relegation to seven points clear at the top of the table. They beat

:15:01.:15:04.

Southampton 1-40 thanks to Wes Morgan's header, and he was praised

:15:05.:15:09.

by Claudio Ranieri afterwards, who says he believes they can continue

:15:10.:15:14.

their magical season after four straight 1-2 victories.

:15:15.:15:17.

Louis van Gaal admitted Manchester United were lucky to beat Everton

:15:18.:15:22.

won high consumer gangsta Anthony Martial's winner. United far from

:15:23.:15:23.

their best but they moved one England's Charley Hull has missed

:15:24.:15:59.

out on her first win in women's golf.

:16:00.:16:03.

Women's golf major. The 20-year-old finished second at the ANE in

:16:04.:16:08.

California. One shot behind the winner. I played great. Apart from

:16:09.:16:14.

the front nine it was a safe start. I made a couple of bogeys and then I

:16:15.:16:24.

birdied nine and birdied ten and to finish with a birdie was great and I

:16:25.:16:33.

felt good. No celebrations for Charley or Lewis. West Indies had a

:16:34.:16:40.

champions dance. The players arrived back to their hotel after victory.

:16:41.:16:47.

Their captain loves a dance. Here is another sports star who has

:16:48.:16:51.

been practising! Jumping. Yo! You feel like jumping?

:16:52.:17:05.

Usain Bolt is very happy. We will see if he brings that celebration to

:17:06.:17:10.

Rio with him later in the summer. Thank you, Hugh.

:17:11.:17:14.

This morning, how some of the world's richest people manage

:17:15.:17:17.

to hide their money in tax havens - countries or independent areas

:17:18.:17:20.

where taxes are issued at a low rate.

:17:21.:17:29.

A huge leak of confidential documents reveals how one law firm -

:17:30.:17:32.

based in Panama - has helped clients launder money,

:17:33.:17:40.

The documents show links to 72 current or former heads of state

:17:41.:17:46.

in the data, including dictators accused of looting

:17:47.:17:49.

Those 72 current or former heads of state in the data include

:17:50.:18:51.

the Icelandic Prime Minister who had an undeclared interest linked

:18:52.:18:54.

to his wife's wealth and is now facing calls for his resignation.

:18:55.:19:01.

Here he is walking out of an interview when he was asked

:19:02.:19:04.

He says he hasn't broken any rules and his wife didn't benefit

:19:05.:19:08.

The company, Mossack Fonseca, says it has operated beyond reproach

:19:09.:19:18.

for 40 years and has never been charged with criminal wrong-doing.

:19:19.:19:25.

Whilst this may sound like big money swirling around amongst the rich,

:19:26.:19:28.

what it actually means is that if the world's most powerful people

:19:29.:19:31.

are paying less tax and that means there is less money

:19:32.:19:34.

going into the government to pay for things like schools,

:19:35.:19:37.

hospitals, road building programmes etc.

:19:38.:19:38.

It's an issue that David Cameron has spoken about in the past,

:19:39.:19:41.

promising to "sweep away" tax secrecy.

:19:42.:19:44.

This was him talking about it a G8 summit in northern Ireland.

:19:45.:19:49.

The Lough Erne Declaration that we have signed sets out some

:19:50.:19:52.

simple and clear commitments.

:19:53.:19:55.

Tax authorities across the world should automatically share

:19:56.:19:58.

information so those who want to

:19:59.:20:01.

Companies should know who really owns them,

:20:02.:20:08.

and tax collectors and law enforcers should be able to obtain this

:20:09.:20:11.

information easily, for example through central registries,

:20:12.:20:13.

so people can't avoid taxes by using complicated

:20:14.:20:15.

David Cameron is planning a summit of world leaders next month

:20:16.:20:22.

which will focus on the conduct of tax havens.

:20:23.:20:25.

In total 11 million documents held by the Panama-based law firm have

:20:26.:20:28.

been passed to 107 media organisations including the BBC.

:20:29.:20:30.

That's why you'll see some stories relating to the documents

:20:31.:20:33.

being reported on the BBC and other news organisations

:20:34.:20:37.

So how do people use off-shore tax havens like Panama to evade paying

:20:38.:20:43.

Robert Palmer is the Head of Global Witness which investigates

:20:44.:20:50.

anonymous companies and banks that do business with the corrupt.

:20:51.:20:54.

Paula Tallon is Managing Partner of Gabelle LLP and a tax expert.

:20:55.:20:57.

She has spent almost 20 years advising on tax.

:20:58.:21:00.

Nicholas Shaxson is author of Treasure Islands: Tax Havens

:21:01.:21:02.

Welcome all of you. Robert first of all, your reaction to this story? I

:21:03.:21:15.

mean, as someone who looked at money laundering and corruption for over

:21:16.:21:18.

seven years, it is not hugely surprising, but I think what is

:21:19.:21:23.

interesting is it lifts the veil on the detail. You see the mechanisms

:21:24.:21:27.

about how people are able to keep their money off-shore. Sometimes it

:21:28.:21:30.

is about tax. Sometimes it is about corruption. Sometimes it is about

:21:31.:21:34.

sanctions busting, if you want to hide your money and your assets, you

:21:35.:21:40.

want to get yourself an anonymously owned company and stash your money

:21:41.:21:46.

off-shore and you're sorted. And that's legit? So we are going to

:21:47.:21:53.

have to wait and see for more information to come out about the

:21:54.:21:58.

cases, but the journalists the at BBC are certainly claiming that some

:21:59.:22:00.

of the activity that was going on was illegal. What is an off-shore

:22:01.:22:05.

tax haven and what could the British Government do about some of its

:22:06.:22:10.

overseas territories which are tax havens? So an off-shore tax haven is

:22:11.:22:15.

a place where you can put your money and you can get banking secrecy, you

:22:16.:22:22.

can create a shell company where it is almost impossible to identify who

:22:23.:22:25.

owns and controls it. One of the interesting things for me, while

:22:26.:22:30.

this company is a Panama-based company, the favoured place for them

:22:31.:22:38.

to get their shell companies was the British Virgin islands. We have a

:22:39.:22:41.

corruption summit being hosted by the Prime Minister Menzies Campbells

:22:42.:22:43.

month. It is a real opportunity for him to stand up and continue the

:22:44.:22:46.

leadership that he showed at the G8 and say we are going to open up the

:22:47.:22:52.

tax havens. It would be as simple as that for the British Government to

:22:53.:22:57.

do that? None this is simple... If it is a British overseas territory?

:22:58.:23:00.

There is a complicated relationship between the UK and the overseas

:23:01.:23:05.

territories, but ultimately they are British territories and the UK Prime

:23:06.:23:08.

Minister has significant influence over what goes on there. Paula, how

:23:09.:23:12.

do you, what do you take from this? Tax in the news again. Now, we have

:23:13.:23:17.

been focussed for the last three to five years on tax avoidance schemes.

:23:18.:23:23.

Tax a I voidance as opposed to tax evasion. Parts this could be tax

:23:24.:23:28.

evasion. Which is illegal? It is. If we have UK resident and domiciled

:23:29.:23:35.

people, so people their roots are in the UK operating through the

:23:36.:23:38.

structures, there is tax that should be paid in the UK and isn't being

:23:39.:23:43.

paid. Now that causes a number of problems. We have had as lot of

:23:44.:23:47.

disclosure facilities. There have been chances for people to come

:23:48.:23:50.

forward and declare their ownership of certain off-shore assets. Now a

:23:51.:23:54.

lot of those facilities have closed and the favourable terms because it

:23:55.:23:57.

is expected that most people would have come forward now, I think over

:23:58.:24:02.

the next few days we are going to see some UK people caught up in this

:24:03.:24:08.

and probably perhaps behind some property structures and despite

:24:09.:24:12.

everything that the Government has been doing with, we have diverted

:24:13.:24:16.

profits tax to catch these establishments in the UK, we have

:24:17.:24:21.

got all the profit shifting, all of that looking at tax in the UK

:24:22.:24:25.

profits and we have circumstances where individuals and companies are

:24:26.:24:29.

evading UK tax. Nicholas, I know you want to come in here. Why do very,

:24:30.:24:34.

very, very, very, wealthy people hide their money so they can avoid

:24:35.:24:39.

paying tax? This would still be very wealthy if they paid tax? We need to

:24:40.:24:45.

understand what a tax haven is. I would take a broad view. These are

:24:46.:24:49.

places where people who use tax havens, they are looking for escape.

:24:50.:24:51.

Escape from the rules of society. That might be tax. It is this is not

:24:52.:24:58.

just about tax. It might be secrecy. You might be wanting to launder

:24:59.:25:06.

money or escape your creditors, you set-up a ponsy scheme. The off-shore

:25:07.:25:10.

world is designed to provide escape routes. It is very much the world's

:25:11.:25:17.

wealthiest and most powerful people who want to escape the rule of law

:25:18.:25:22.

and... Sorry, just on that point, you say they want to escape the rule

:25:23.:25:30.

of law, but you can use tax havens legitimately? You have to be careful

:25:31.:25:34.

about the word legitimate. Lawfully? Yes. Lawfully. I think there are

:25:35.:25:42.

many ways that tax havens are used such as corporate tax avoidance

:25:43.:25:46.

which may not be strictly illegal, but they are abusive of society.

:25:47.:25:51.

They are extracting wealth from one section of society and giving it,

:25:52.:25:56.

handing it effectively another section, jnly a wealthier section.

:25:57.:25:59.

You have an erosion of democracy as you have one set of rules for the

:26:00.:26:05.

rich and powerful and another set of rules for everybody else and I think

:26:06.:26:09.

this data leak just shows that so very clearly. I'd like to add one

:26:10.:26:14.

more point add to what Robert said about the UK. There is a lot of talk

:26:15.:26:20.

about how much influence or power does the UK have over its own tax

:26:21.:26:26.

havens. I think ultimately it is a question of political will. The UK

:26:27.:26:31.

does ultimately have the power to tell these places to strike down its

:26:32.:26:35.

secrecy laws, but for reasons of political will they have decided not

:26:36.:26:40.

to and for reasons of precedent, but they can do it. They impose a direct

:26:41.:26:46.

rule on the Turks and Caicos islands a few years ago and they can, all

:26:47.:26:51.

the laws that are set-up, they come to the Privy Council in London for

:26:52.:26:56.

to be approved and Britain can, Britain can stop this stuff for its

:26:57.:27:02.

own territories. Paula, tell what yous is happening in the summer in

:27:03.:27:06.

term of the register that's coming in and what difference it will make?

:27:07.:27:10.

We have got the persons of significant control register. If you

:27:11.:27:14.

have somebody who controls 25% or move of a limited liability

:27:15.:27:17.

partnership or a limited company or indeed someone that has the power to

:27:18.:27:20.

remove the whole board of directors or the majority of the board of

:27:21.:27:24.

directors, then their details will have to be registered at companies

:27:25.:27:28.

house. The real owners will be registered. That is what is supposed

:27:29.:27:33.

to happen. From what I have been reading on the leaked documents,

:27:34.:27:36.

individuals have been able to buy identities that they can use on the

:27:37.:27:39.

registers and if that is what is happening, then that makes some of

:27:40.:27:42.

the information meaningless if you are trying to get behind the

:27:43.:27:46.

structures. Robert, in terms of those who want to buy somebody

:27:47.:27:50.

else's identity to make it look like someone else runs, you know, has

:27:51.:27:56.

this company in a tax haven. Would there always be a sinister motive or

:27:57.:28:02.

not? Going back to the point that Nick made about something being

:28:03.:28:08.

illegal or legitimate. It is legal to pay somebody and say I want you

:28:09.:28:14.

to be a director on my behalf. I don't have a problem with that as

:28:15.:28:20.

well as there is disclosure and transparency. I am disclosing that

:28:21.:28:25.

the person who really controls this company is this other person. What

:28:26.:28:28.

is important about what is happening in the UK, this information will be

:28:29.:28:31.

public. It will be available to the public. So all of us, law

:28:32.:28:35.

enforcement from around the world will be able to have access to this

:28:36.:28:38.

information and that's what we think should happen with the tax havens.

:28:39.:28:41.

This summit that's happening next month is an opportunity to do that.

:28:42.:28:48.

I think sometimes this stuff can end up being seeming very intellectual.

:28:49.:28:55.

Some of us of have been watching the Night Man and I feel what's really

:28:56.:28:59.

important why we should care about this, if rich and powerful companies

:29:00.:29:04.

and individuals aren't paying their taxes, there is less money for

:29:05.:29:08.

schools, hospitals, education, and it is unfair on all of us who are

:29:09.:29:12.

paying our taxes. Nicholas, why should people care? This this goes

:29:13.:29:19.

to the heart of democracy. It goes to the heart, tax havens are regard

:29:20.:29:29.

as an exotic sideshow. As I said, they are ways for generally the

:29:30.:29:33.

wealthier and more powerful members of society to escape rules that they

:29:34.:29:36.

don't like. You have one set of rules for them and another set for

:29:37.:29:39.

everybody else. That is a hugely important matter. There is the tax

:29:40.:29:44.

element. There is also the financial crime element and all of these

:29:45.:29:49.

things are vetted by off-shore secrecy. Another angle to this about

:29:50.:29:53.

tax haven, we need to think separately, what this is about is

:29:54.:29:58.

basically individuals using secrecy to avoid tax of the there is another

:29:59.:30:05.

side of tax havens corporate tax avoidance, the Lux Leaks scandal was

:30:06.:30:11.

another smaller emergence of data and that revealed huge corporations

:30:12.:30:14.

multinational corporations paying small amounts of tax getting away,

:30:15.:30:18.

escaping from their tax obligations. This is all off-shore stuff and I

:30:19.:30:22.

think it is profoundly corrupting of the whole global economic system.

:30:23.:30:25.

Thank you very much all of you. Thank you for coming on the

:30:26.:30:30.

programme. Lots of you getting in touch to ask why we are not naming

:30:31.:30:35.

any of the British people. The BBC along with 107 other media

:30:36.:30:39.

organisations has been wading through 11 million documents and you

:30:40.:30:43.

will hear more details on the story including any British claims over

:30:44.:30:46.

the next few days. Do not worry about that.

:30:47.:30:49.

And you can watch all the details on Panorama:

:30:50.:30:51.

Tax Havens of the Rich and Powerful Exposed tonight

:30:52.:30:53.

let's just bring you news from Gatwick Airport, 20-year-old man

:30:54.:31:09.

arrested there on suspicion of Syria related terrorism offences according

:31:10.:31:12.

to the West Midlands Police. They say a 24-year-old man has been

:31:13.:31:17.

arrested at Gatwick Airport on suspicion of Syria related terrorism

:31:18.:31:21.

offences. That from West Midlands Police in the last few seconds.

:31:22.:31:28.

Before 10am, we'll bring you cab-share.

:31:29.:31:29.

Our political guru Norman Smith shares a black cab with some

:31:30.:31:32.

This morning it's the turn of Labour's candidate Sadiq Khan.

:31:33.:31:36.

Does his Knowledge stand up to the test?

:31:37.:31:40.

You take the tube, I will give you a sequence. Northern line, Central

:31:41.:31:48.

and? Northern line. What is next in the sequence... That is hard! What

:31:49.:31:56.

is London's oldest museum? The history museum? It is the British

:31:57.:32:03.

Museum, but I will let you off. That is in a few minutes. Also, a

:32:04.:32:09.

growing number of professionals are becoming cage fighters and trying

:32:10.:32:13.

out mixed martial arts. We followed a recruitment consultant as he

:32:14.:32:16.

prepares for his first amateur fight.

:32:17.:32:20.

Ben Brown is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of the rest

:32:21.:32:24.

A huge cache of confidential documents has been leaked,

:32:25.:32:32.

revealing how the rich and powerful use tax havens to hide their wealth.

:32:33.:32:35.

They come from one of the world's most secretive companies,

:32:36.:32:37.

a law firm called Mossack Fonseca based in Panama.

:32:38.:32:42.

One campaigner against tax havens has told the Victoria Derbyshire

:32:43.:32:47.

programme how tax systems can be exploited. It lifts the veil on the

:32:48.:32:52.

detail, you see the mechanisms about how people are able to keep their

:32:53.:32:56.

money offshore. Sometimes it is about tax, sometimes it is about

:32:57.:33:01.

corruption, sometimes it is about sanctions busting. Basically if you

:33:02.:33:04.

want to hide your money and assets, you want to get yourself an

:33:05.:33:08.

anonymously owned company, stash your money offshore, and you are

:33:09.:33:09.

sorted. The first migrants to be returned

:33:10.:33:11.

from Greece to Turkey under an EU deal have docked in

:33:12.:33:14.

the Turkish port of Dikili. It's thought the vast majority

:33:15.:33:16.

were from Pakistan and had not As part of the deal,

:33:17.:33:19.

more than a dozen Syrian migrants have been flown to

:33:20.:33:24.

Germany this morning. Officers from West Midlands Counter

:33:25.:33:26.

Terrorism Unit have arrested a man at Gatwick airport on suspicion

:33:27.:33:29.

of Syria-related terrorism offences. The man, who lives in Birmingham

:33:30.:33:36.

and is 24-years-old, was detained before

:33:37.:33:38.

boarding a flight. A 20-year-old woman has also been

:33:39.:33:39.

arrested at an address in West London for alleged

:33:40.:33:42.

Syria-related offences. The two are being held at a police

:33:43.:33:44.

station in the West Midlands. Union leaders meet in London today

:33:45.:33:48.

to plan the next steps of their campaign to save

:33:49.:33:51.

the British steel industry. Tata Steel announced

:33:52.:33:56.

last week it was selling There'll also be a meeting this

:33:57.:33:58.

morning of a Wales Tata taskforce, including representatives

:33:59.:34:06.

of the Welsh Assembly, This afternoon an emergency session

:34:07.:34:07.

of the Welsh Assembly will discuss the crisis hanging over

:34:08.:34:12.

the Port Talbot plant. There are calls for doping in sport

:34:13.:34:16.

to be made a criminal offence. Lord Moynihan, the former chairman

:34:17.:34:21.

of the British Olympic Association, has started a petition calling

:34:22.:34:24.

for a change in the law. It follows allegations

:34:25.:34:27.

in the Sunday Times of performance enhancing drugs being taken

:34:28.:34:32.

in a range of sports, including boxing,

:34:33.:34:34.

football and cricket. A murder investigation has been

:34:35.:34:39.

launched after a 17-year-old boy was stabbed to death

:34:40.:34:41.

in south-east London. Two teenagers, aged 15 and 16,

:34:42.:34:47.

have been arrested. Officers were called

:34:48.:34:50.

to reports of an altercation between youths

:34:51.:34:54.

in Lewisham, at around Dame Judi Dench has became the most

:34:55.:34:56.

successful actor in the history The veteran actress picked up

:34:57.:35:04.

a record eighth gong for best supporting actress for her role

:35:05.:35:08.

in The Winter's Tale. No-one has won as many Oliviers

:35:09.:35:10.

for acting since the awards began I had a bet with my grandson,

:35:11.:35:13.

which I've now lost. And I'm never going to be

:35:14.:35:21.

allowed to forget it. That's a summary of

:35:22.:35:24.

the latest BBC News - Hugh has the latest sport.

:35:25.:35:39.

We will start at cricket, captain Eoin Morgan says he will give Ben

:35:40.:35:43.

Stokes time to hurt after the final over which saw the West Indies that

:35:44.:35:47.

a thrilling win in the world 20 might -- Twenty20 final, but he said

:35:48.:35:54.

Stokes will come back stronger from the experience.

:35:55.:35:56.

Leicester are seven points clear at the top of the Premier League with

:35:57.:36:00.

six games remaining, they beat Southampton with a goal from their

:36:01.:36:03.

captain Wes Morgan. Louis van Gaal admitted Manchester

:36:04.:36:06.

United were lucky to beat Everton 1-4 you read thanks to Anthony

:36:07.:36:11.

Martial's winner. They are one point behind fourth placed Manchester

:36:12.:36:12.

City. Lewis Hamilton could only manage

:36:13.:36:15.

third after starting from pole fishing. Nico Rosberg made it two

:36:16.:36:21.

wins from two this season at the Bahrain Grand Prix.

:36:22.:36:24.

I will be back with another round up just after 10am.

:36:25.:36:37.

In a month's time, Boris Johnson's eight-year term as Mayor of London

:36:38.:36:40.

ends - leaving one of the most powerful jobs in the country up

:36:41.:36:43.

The next Mayor will preside over a city that's home to 8.6 million

:36:44.:36:47.

people - that's roughly the populations of Scotland

:36:48.:36:49.

They'll have the power to decide policy in areas such as housing,

:36:50.:36:53.

transport and policing, and will control a budget

:36:54.:36:55.

There have only been two Mayors since the job was created in 2000 -

:36:56.:36:59.

Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone - both big, colourful characters

:37:00.:37:02.

starting with the two front-runners - Conservative candidate

:37:03.:37:13.

Zac Goldsmith and Labour candidate Sadiq Khan.

:37:14.:37:15.

They couldn't have more different backgrounds.

:37:16.:37:18.

One is the son of a billionaire businessman and politician who grew

:37:19.:37:21.

up in the public eye, and the other is the son of a bus

:37:22.:37:25.

driver who grew up on a council estate

:37:26.:37:27.

Our political guru Norman Smith has shared a cab with them both.

:37:28.:37:35.

Can I get to the office of the fantastic Tooting MP?

:37:36.:37:46.

It's on Balham High Road, near Tooting Bec tube station.

:37:47.:37:49.

What are you, are you a Uber man, or a black-cab man?

:37:50.:38:11.

I am both an Uber and a black-cab man.

:38:12.:38:16.

Do you go along with some of the ideas to curb Uber,

:38:17.:38:19.

for example, forcing them to wait five minutes?

:38:20.:38:23.

Specifically with Uber, there is a view among black cabbies

:38:24.:38:25.

Do you think if you were mayor you would look to do something

:38:26.:38:31.

I am not sure if waiting for five minutes works.

:38:32.:38:37.

The important thing is to make sure we level the playing field.

:38:38.:38:41.

For example, think about what you have got to go

:38:42.:38:43.

through as a black-cab driver before you can drive a black cab.

:38:44.:38:50.

The criminal checks, the Knowledge you've got to do,

:38:51.:38:59.

and rather than levelling down your high standards,

:39:00.:39:01.

let's level up the private hire vehicles' standards.

:39:02.:39:03.

How does that work? Do they have English tests?

:39:04.:39:08.

We will need to bring up their standards.

:39:09.:39:10.

Basic English should be a requirement if you

:39:11.:39:13.

And without that they would not be able to operate as a cab driver?

:39:14.:39:17.

In my view, if you are in any public-facing job you should be able

:39:18.:39:21.

I thought while we were waiting at the light, why don't I give

:39:22.:39:25.

you some quickfire questions so we can get a feel

:39:26.:39:27.

Do you believe in God? Yes.

:39:28.:39:40.

As a feminist, as a dad, I think it is not great to have

:39:41.:39:50.

women's naked bodies in newspapers read by millions.

:39:51.:39:53.

Would you take in, or think about taking in, a Syrian refugee?

:39:54.:40:04.

I'd speak to my wife about it first, but assuming the family agree to it,

:40:05.:40:08.

At the moment it is difficult, I have got two teenage

:40:09.:40:13.

Just passing that cyclist, do you think cyclists should have

:40:14.:40:17.

But we have got to make it safer and easier for people to cycle.

:40:18.:40:27.

I saw on your website one of the things you want is to be

:40:28.:40:30.

But I don't think of you as a pro-business politician.

:40:31.:40:41.

I was looking at your record and when it comes to things

:40:42.:40:44.

like corporation tax cuts for business, you have always

:40:45.:40:46.

I am the only candidate with the experience of helping run

:40:47.:40:49.

I will go with a Conservative Chancellor and Prime Minister

:40:50.:40:55.

on trade missions around the world to get business for London.

:40:56.:40:58.

You would be happy to go on visits to India, wherever,

:40:59.:41:01.

I would also be campaigning, hopefully as the Mayor of London,

:41:02.:41:12.

between May 5th, May 6th, after the election

:41:13.:41:16.

and June 23rd, with the Conservative Prime

:41:17.:41:18.

Minister and Chancellor, Conservative Business Secretary,

:41:19.:41:19.

for us to stay in the European Union.

:41:20.:41:21.

What do you say to those in your party who would say

:41:22.:41:24.

you are giving legitimacy to your party's opponents?

:41:25.:41:31.

You know, the future of the city I love, the future of our country,

:41:32.:41:36.

is far more important than tribal party politics.

:41:37.:41:39.

How does that go down in your party, particularly with the likes

:41:40.:41:43.

of Jeremy Corbyn, that sort of, "I'm going to work with George Osborne,

:41:44.:41:46.

I am going to work with David Cameron" approach?

:41:47.:41:48.

When it comes to being a mayor of a great city, you've got

:41:49.:41:51.

to recognise your role is to be a champion for that city.

:41:52.:41:54.

I am not Jeremy Corbyn's representative to London.

:41:55.:41:59.

Nominated him, I'm sorry, to get him in the contest.

:42:00.:42:06.

It is quite important for us to recognise the Labour Party has

:42:07.:42:12.

lost not one but two general elections in a row badly.

:42:13.:42:15.

Do you seriously think Jeremy Corbyn is going to put you in

:42:16.:42:18.

To deprive the Labour movement of a chance to vote

:42:19.:42:25.

for all the candidates they could have a chance to do

:42:26.:42:28.

You surely want Labour to be in the best position

:42:29.:42:31.

My question is do you think Jeremy Corbyn puts you in a better

:42:32.:42:35.

That is why it is wrong to exclude somebody from the ballot paper.

:42:36.:42:43.

The Labour movement voted for Jeremy Corbyn.

:42:44.:42:45.

I may not have voted for Jeremy Corbyn...

:42:46.:42:47.

It sounds like you are a supporter of his.

:42:48.:42:49.

Of course I support the Labour Party.

:42:50.:42:53.

You are still an MP, Sadiq, you know how many MPs view

:42:54.:42:56.

Jeremy Corbyn, and they are terrified that however popular

:42:57.:43:00.

he may be in the Labour Party, many voters are never going to vote

:43:01.:43:03.

for him and therefore your party is potentially heading for an even

:43:04.:43:06.

worse encounter with the electorate at the next election.

:43:07.:43:10.

And those are some of the challenges that Jeremy Corbyn as the leader

:43:11.:43:14.

I'm not the leader of the Labour Party,

:43:15.:43:16.

Let's talk a little about immigration, because a huge

:43:17.:43:28.

issue, London a huge magnet for immigrants.

:43:29.:43:30.

Do you think there are too many immigrants?

:43:31.:43:32.

I think it is important to explain that question with more detail

:43:33.:43:36.

We have to understand for the last thousand years we have benefited

:43:37.:43:43.

as a city from trade, from ideas and from people.

:43:44.:43:47.

You have got various forms of immigration.

:43:48.:43:55.

You have those who come on a work permit, those who are students,

:43:56.:43:58.

those who are asylum seekers and refugees.

:43:59.:44:02.

Those who come and don't have a good reason.

:44:03.:44:08.

What is really important is we distinguish the different

:44:09.:44:10.

If you think London is perhaps the most diverse cosmopolitan city

:44:11.:44:21.

Because the level, the numbers, puts a massive strain on resources.

:44:22.:44:31.

At the end of the day, London is already a diverse city

:44:32.:44:36.

and people are by and large OK with that.

:44:37.:44:40.

Numbers is a question, and my question to you is

:44:41.:44:46.

do you think the numbers at the moment are too high?

:44:47.:44:49.

It is about making sure we plan for the numbers.

:44:50.:44:53.

Let me give you an example - one of my plans is to set up a Homes

:44:54.:44:57.

I would be in charge of making sure there are genuinely affordable homes

:44:58.:45:02.

At least half would be genuinely affordable where you pay social

:45:03.:45:09.

rent, a London living rent of one third of average earnings,

:45:10.:45:11.

but also homes you can afford to buy under shared ownership.

:45:12.:45:14.

What do you say to those who view you as someone who is a bit

:45:15.:45:18.

I am thinking, obviously, of Heathrow, where you used to be

:45:19.:45:21.

I am not going to apologise for changing my mind

:45:22.:45:27.

I am not some sort of mad ideologue who keeps their head in the sand

:45:28.:45:33.

It makes you sick and it's illegal and in those circumstances,

:45:34.:45:41.

But it is not just on Heathrow, is it?

:45:42.:45:47.

You used to be a strong supporter of that.

:45:48.:45:51.

There used to be a saying the 1980s, members of the Labour Party had,

:45:52.:46:03.

and the saying was, no compromise with the electorate.

:46:04.:46:05.

And we lost election after election after election.

:46:06.:46:07.

We put a manifesto to the British public last May.

:46:08.:46:09.

We can put it back to the British public either this May or in 2020,

:46:10.:46:20.

but don't be surprised if we get hammered.

:46:21.:46:22.

I'm a democrat, I'm a pluralist, I want to win elections.

:46:23.:46:25.

I've got to recognise that the offer we had last May was not good enough.

:46:26.:46:28.

That is why I am asking you about Jeremy Corbyn.

:46:29.:46:31.

Do you seriously think he will put you in a better position?

:46:32.:46:34.

Norman, I tell you what, I am working my socks off

:46:35.:46:36.

between now and May 5th to win the London election

:46:37.:46:39.

because only by winning elections can we change

:46:40.:46:41.

Let me give you some quick fires on London...

:46:42.:46:50.

This is Wandsworth Common, by the way.

:46:51.:46:52.

When I was training for the marathon, my route

:46:53.:46:55.

includes three commons - Tooting Common, Clapham Common

:46:56.:46:57.

And this, when you run back here, on the pavement, you can feel

:46:58.:47:01.

So I changed my route to avoid the main road -

:47:02.:47:06.

this is the way back to my home - because of the air quality

:47:07.:47:10.

Let me ask you some London questions.

:47:11.:47:15.

The Tube, you obviously take the Tube, so I'm going to give

:47:16.:47:18.

You did the Northern line, Central line?

:47:19.:47:22.

Tottenham Court Road, Leicester Square, Charing Cross.

:47:23.:47:35.

The time between Embankment and Charing Cross is 30

:47:36.:47:42.

OK, here's another one. Who pays at Selhurst Park?

:47:43.:47:45.

Let me ask you an East Enders question.

:47:46.:47:53.

I was going to ask you who was the first barmaid in the Queen Vic.

:47:54.:48:04.

I used to have a paper round and I used to deliver

:48:05.:48:11.

True story. When I had a paper round.

:48:12.:48:16.

What is London's oldest museum?

:48:17.:48:20.

My office used to be in Museum Street in Bloomsbury,

:48:21.:48:31.

And so I spent many times in that museum when I was growing up.

:48:32.:48:35.

If you get the Mayor thing, what do you want to be your big legacy?

:48:36.:48:43.

If there was one thing, if you became mayor,

:48:44.:48:45.

you would want to stand out as your achievement,

:48:46.:48:47.

To start addressing the housing crisis so Londoners can afford

:48:48.:48:51.

Look London is the greatest city in the world.

:48:52.:48:55.

Because Londoners are being priced out of London because of

:48:56.:48:59.

the cost of housing, and the cost of commuting.

:49:00.:49:01.

I think I've got myself a second job here.

:49:02.:49:07.

Some would argue that is an improvement on your first one!

:49:08.:49:12.

There we go, Sadiq, very nice to have in the back of the cab.

:49:13.:49:15.

Tomorrow we'll hear from the Conservative candidate

:49:16.:49:39.

In total 12 candidates are hoping to succeed Boris Johnson as mayor

:49:40.:49:44.

of London in the election on 5th May.

:49:45.:49:45.

You can find a full list of them on the BBC News site.

:49:46.:49:53.

The first boat carrying migrants deported from Greece has arrived

:49:54.:49:55.

Over 130 people, mostly from Pakistan, have been returned

:49:56.:50:02.

under a deal between the EU and Turkey which hopes to ease mass

:50:03.:50:05.

Our correspondent Mark Lowen has been at the port in Dikili in Turkey

:50:06.:50:11.

There they are, the first migrants who have disembarked from the boat

:50:12.:50:17.

that has come over from Lesbos this morning.

:50:18.:50:19.

They've been joined by Turkish officials from the Red Crescent

:50:20.:50:22.

and from the local authorities here, checking their welfare and then

:50:23.:50:29.

registering them in a little tent that has been set up

:50:30.:50:32.

Now along with the second boat that is following closely behind,

:50:33.:50:35.

we understand about 130 people are on board, mainly Pakistanis.

:50:36.:50:39.

We understand they were taken to deportation centres elsewhere

:50:40.:50:41.

Turkey has been signing readmission agreements with about 14 countries

:50:42.:50:46.

in the last couple of weeks since the deal was struck

:50:47.:50:48.

with the European Union, in order for them to be deported

:50:49.:50:51.

The Syrians who will be sent back in the coming weeks who were not

:50:52.:50:58.

given asylum in Greece will be taken to refugee camps,

:50:59.:51:00.

mainly on Turkey's southern border with Syria.

:51:01.:51:02.

There, they will eventually be exchanged with Syrians who will be

:51:03.:51:04.

directly resettled in the European Union as part

:51:05.:51:06.

There are still major doubts over the viability of this deal,

:51:07.:51:14.

whether it will hold and whether it will discourage people

:51:15.:51:17.

from still trying to make that journey across to Greece.

:51:18.:51:19.

On average, since the deal was struck with the European Union,

:51:20.:51:23.

about 400 migrants a day have still been trying to arrive

:51:24.:51:25.

So still, people are not dissuaded from trying.

:51:26.:51:31.

We will have to see whether or not when the news gets out

:51:32.:51:34.

that the deportation process is ongoing, whether that stops

:51:35.:51:36.

people from trying to make that perilous journey.

:51:37.:51:45.

We can now speak to our correspondent Jenny Hill

:51:46.:51:47.

Hello. Around 16 refugees, we're told, mainly families, touched down

:51:48.:52:00.

in Hannover a couple of hours ago, another small group is expected to

:52:01.:52:04.

follow later. A spokesperson for the immigration authorities described

:52:05.:52:08.

them as exhausted, but excited. They only learned a week ago that they

:52:09.:52:12.

would be re-housed in Germany. They will be living at a camp and this

:52:13.:52:17.

has been described as the first step, Germany is expecting to take

:52:18.:52:21.

in around 1600 refugees initially as part of this deal, but that number

:52:22.:52:26.

is expected to go up to around 15,000 at a later date.

:52:27.:52:29.

is expected to go up to around think, widely seen as a symbolic

:52:30.:52:33.

gesture. Don't forget, of course, that Germany, Angela Merkel was very

:52:34.:52:37.

much the force behind this deal. Angela Merkel is very much relying

:52:38.:52:42.

on it working out because she herself has promised Germans that

:52:43.:52:45.

she will reduce the number of people seeking asylum in Germany.

:52:46.:52:50.

Thank you very much, Jenny. Jenny Hill in Berlin.

:52:51.:52:56.

Leicester City moved a significant step closer to completing one

:52:57.:52:58.

of the most remarkable feats in British football history

:52:59.:53:01.

by beating Southampton 1-0 yesterday.

:53:02.:53:02.

The Foxes are now seven points clear at the top of the Premier league

:53:03.:53:05.

To put that into context, this time last year they were battling

:53:06.:53:09.

relegation and, at the start of the season, the odds on them

:53:10.:53:20.

the same odds that you'd get for proof that Elvis Presley

:53:21.:53:24.

is alive or for the yeti or Loch Ness monster existing.

:53:25.:53:27.

On this programme two life-long Leicester fans have been keeping

:53:28.:53:29.

video diaries for us as the season comes to a climatic end.

:53:30.:53:32.

Here are our two fans Gary L Johnson and yes,

:53:33.:53:34.

he is named after Gary Lineker and Sandra Fixter.

:53:35.:53:48.

It's 2nd April and you may be surprised to see me here,

:53:49.:53:51.

because Leicester City are not playing Southampton until tomorrow.

:53:52.:53:54.

However, the run-up to the game starts today.

:53:55.:53:59.

We're all settled in with pizzas, ready to watch Liverpool hopefully

:54:00.:54:05.

beat Tottenham to keep the gap where it should be.

:54:06.:54:11.

Five points between us, before we play.

:54:12.:54:13.

But for 90 minutes, we want to be Liverpool supporters.

:54:14.:54:24.

We know Tottenham are playing today so we'll keep an eye on the score.

:54:25.:54:33.

We've got the television on all ready to see what they are up to.

:54:34.:54:36.

We could really do with Liverpool helping us today.

:54:37.:54:38.

And beating Tottenham in their score.

:54:39.:54:40.

50 minutes into the match and Liverpool have scored,

:54:41.:55:07.

Right, well Spurs have drawn 1-1 with Liverpool,

:55:08.:55:18.

so they are four points behind us now and it is down

:55:19.:55:21.

It doesn't get any easier being a Leicester City supporter.

:55:22.:55:34.

I can't believe how much the nerves are kicking in.

:55:35.:55:44.

We're going to win, we're going to win.

:55:45.:55:46.

I don't know whether I will be reporting after the match,

:55:47.:55:49.

because hopefully I will not have a voice.

:55:50.:55:51.

But let's hope, this season, we will be like two seasons ago

:55:52.:55:53.

I'm now walking to the stadium for our next fixture.

:55:54.:55:57.

It's getting a little bit exciting though.

:55:58.:55:59.

I don't know what to call for this one.

:56:00.:56:01.

They were up there last season themselves.

:56:02.:56:07.

Here we are, the King Power Stadium. Walking up to the ground.

:56:08.:56:12.

So everyone in the ground has got one of those doughnuts.

:56:13.:56:25.

Because it is the chairman's birthday.

:56:26.:56:28.

What other club gives away birthday presents to everyone in the ground

:56:29.:56:31.

We're in the ground with a free doughnut and a free beer courtesy

:56:32.:56:40.

Let's hope it bodes well for a good result.

:56:41.:56:44.

So we've got the drink, we've got the programme.

:56:45.:56:46.

We're about to go in the stadium now, so, come on Leicester,

:56:47.:56:51.

I feel it is going to be a good match.

:56:52.:56:54.

Well, it's half-time, we are winning 1-0.

:56:55.:57:14.

But Southampton are an excellent side.

:57:15.:57:16.

They are getting us on the counter, but too nervous to carry on.

:57:17.:57:19.

We've won 1-0, again, and it's getting terrible.

:57:20.:57:32.

I'm going to have to carry a portable ECG,

:57:33.:57:35.

It's going to happen. We're going to win the league.

:57:36.:57:45.

I can't believe it. It means so much to all of us.

:57:46.:57:48.

And all the fans. What a year to be a Blue.

:57:49.:57:50.

So that is it, we have won match at the King Power Stadium.

:57:51.:57:54.

There so much faith behind the supporters, the fans,

:57:55.:57:57.

the players, and what a better way to top off our chairman's birthday

:57:58.:58:05.

A happy birthday and we are onto the next one.

:58:06.:58:09.

Back in the car. And I am speechless, absolutely.

:58:10.:58:17.

What about you, folks? What about you?

:58:18.:58:22.

# We are going to win the league. # We are going to win the league.

:58:23.:58:27.

It's the final of The Voice tonight. She won't with it!

:58:28.:58:30.

Oh, what a game. These 1-0s are doing my head in.

:58:31.:58:43.

But it's three points and seven points clear.

:58:44.:58:46.

And we'll continue to follow Leicester's progress over the course

:58:47.:58:52.

You can watch all of Gary and Sandra's diaries

:58:53.:59:00.

on our programme page: bbc.co.uk/victoria

:59:01.:59:05.

Still to come: They may be suited and booted for work,

:59:06.:59:07.

but a growing number of professionals are becoming cage

:59:08.:59:09.

fighters and trying out mixed martial arts.

:59:10.:59:12.

We've followed one recruitment consultant as he prepares

:59:13.:59:14.

If you are a fan and you compete, we would be really keen to talk to you

:59:15.:59:30.

on the programme this morning. Let's get the latest

:59:31.:59:33.

weather update with Nick. This week's weather is not the best

:59:34.:59:44.

that spring has to offer. We are dodging the downpours. We have got

:59:45.:59:47.

more rain spreading northwards across Scotland. It is affecting

:59:48.:59:50.

parts of Northern Ireland especially the further east you are and these

:59:51.:59:54.

are heavy showers developing across England and Wales. Some will be

:59:55.:59:59.

thundery. There is a risk of hail and difficult driving conditions,

:00:00.:00:02.

but there are drier, brighter moments in between the showers. If

:00:03.:00:06.

you get a bit of sunshine later, parts of East Anglia and the South

:00:07.:00:11.

East, with fewer showers, you could get to 15 Celsius somewhere. We are

:00:12.:00:14.

left are rain across parts of Scotland and Northern England and

:00:15.:00:19.

maybe fringing North Wales. Some clear spells developing across

:00:20.:00:21.

Northern Ireland where temperatures will dip here. So fairly chilly here

:00:22.:00:25.

as we start the day tomorrow. Elsewhere, around six to eight

:00:26.:00:30.

Celsius. We keep a lot of cloud tomorrow across Scotland and

:00:31.:00:32.

Northern England, patchy outbreaks of rain. For Northern Ireland, the

:00:33.:00:35.

rest of England and Wales, we will get some sunny spells and that will

:00:36.:00:39.

lead to a fairly pleasant afternoon, but it turns colder still as the

:00:40.:00:41.

week goes on. That's your forecast. The top stories this morning, how

:00:42.:00:57.

some of the world's richest people hide their money in offshore

:00:58.:01:01.

accounts, we bring you details of the biggest ever leaked of

:01:02.:01:03.

confidential documents showing how tax havens are exploited. Also,

:01:04.:01:09.

there are calls for doping in sport to be made a criminal offence. We

:01:10.:01:13.

will speak to the former chair of the British Olympic Association. And

:01:14.:01:17.

as a battle to save the British Steel industry continues, union

:01:18.:01:20.

leaders are meeting to plan the next steps of their campaign. We will

:01:21.:01:24.

speak to them live. And when the rush hour is over, it is super-soft

:01:25.:01:28.

for the white-collar workers taking up cage fighting. We will follow a

:01:29.:01:32.

recruitment adviser as he prepares for his first clash. These guys

:01:33.:01:37.

learning to fight for the first time, it is scary, you are about to

:01:38.:01:41.

go into war in front of 10,000 people. I would be scared as well.

:01:42.:01:51.

Good morning, time for the latest BBC News with Ben.

:01:52.:01:55.

A huge cache of confidential documents has been leaked,

:01:56.:02:00.

revealing how the rich and powerful use tax havens to hide their wealth.

:02:01.:02:08.

They come from one of the world's most secretive companies,

:02:09.:02:10.

a law firm called Mossack Fonseca based in Panama.

:02:11.:02:13.

One campaigner against tax havens has told the Victoria Derbyshire

:02:14.:02:16.

programme how tax systems can be exploited.

:02:17.:02:17.

It lifts the veil on the detail, you see the mechanisms about how

:02:18.:02:21.

people are able to keep their money offshore.

:02:22.:02:27.

Sometimes it is about tax, sometimes it is about

:02:28.:02:29.

corruption, sometimes it is about sanctions busting.

:02:30.:02:31.

Basically if you want to hide your money and assets,

:02:32.:02:35.

you want to get yourself an anonymously-owned company,

:02:36.:02:37.

stash your money offshore, and you are

:02:38.:02:39.

In the last hour, a second boat of migrants who are being returned

:02:40.:02:43.

from Greece to Turkey under an EU deal have docked in the Turkish port

:02:44.:02:48.

It's thought the vast majority were from Pakistan and had not

:02:49.:02:52.

As part of the deal, more than a dozen Syrian migrants

:02:53.:02:56.

have been flown to Germany this morning.

:02:57.:02:58.

A murder investigation has been launched after a 17-year-old boy

:02:59.:03:00.

was stabbed to death in south-east London.

:03:01.:03:02.

Two teenagers, aged 15 and 16, have been arrested.

:03:03.:03:06.

Officers were called to reports of an altercation

:03:07.:03:09.

between youths in Lewisham, at around

:03:10.:03:11.

Union leaders meet in London today to plan the next steps

:03:12.:03:18.

of their campaign to save the British steel industry.

:03:19.:03:21.

Tata Steel announced last week it was selling

:03:22.:03:23.

There'll also be a meeting this morning of a Wales Tata taskforce,

:03:24.:03:33.

including representatives of the Welsh Assembly,

:03:34.:03:34.

This afternoon an emergency session of the Welsh Assembly will discuss

:03:35.:03:38.

the crisis hanging over the Port Talbot plant.

:03:39.:03:43.

Labour's candidate for London Mayor, Sadiq Khan, has told this programme

:03:44.:03:46.

that taxi drivers in the capital must be able to speak decent

:03:47.:03:49.

He said Uber drivers should have to go through the same checks

:03:50.:03:53.

that apply to black cabs.

:03:54.:03:58.

He was giving an interview in a cab to the BBC's

:03:59.:04:00.

assistant political editor, Norman Smith.

:04:01.:04:06.

The vehicles are so expensive, they're all disabled-friendly,

:04:07.:04:08.

the criminal checks, the Knowledge you've got to do -

:04:09.:04:11.

rather than levelling down your high standards,

:04:12.:04:12.

let's level up the private hire vehicle standards.

:04:13.:04:14.

Speaking English, doing security checks.

:04:15.:04:17.

How does that work, do they have English tests?

:04:18.:04:20.

Yeah, we will need to bring up the standards.

:04:21.:04:22.

Basic English should be a requirement if you are a public

:04:23.:04:26.

And if they don't get that, they wouldn't be able to operate

:04:27.:04:30.

In my view, if you're in any public facing job,

:04:31.:04:34.

you should have to speak basic English.

:04:35.:04:36.

There are calls for doping in sport to be made a criminal offence.

:04:37.:04:40.

Lord Moynihan, the former chairman of the British Olympic Association,

:04:41.:04:42.

has started a petition calling for a change in the law.

:04:43.:04:46.

It follows allegations in the Sunday Times of performance

:04:47.:04:48.

enhancing drugs being taken in a range of sports,

:04:49.:04:50.

including boxing, football and cricket.

:04:51.:04:55.

Officers from West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit have arrested a man

:04:56.:04:58.

at Gatwick airport on suspicion of Syria-related terrorism offences.

:04:59.:05:01.

The man, who lives in Birmingham and is 24-years-old,

:05:02.:05:04.

was detained before boarding a flight.

:05:05.:05:08.

A 20-year-old woman has also been arrested at an address

:05:09.:05:11.

in West London for alleged Syria-related offences.

:05:12.:05:13.

The two are being held at a police station in the West Midlands.

:05:14.:05:20.

A new subsidised insurance scheme for people living in areas prone

:05:21.:05:23.

to heavy flooding comes into force today.

:05:24.:05:29.

The Government-backed 'Flood Re' initiative will be funded by a levy

:05:30.:05:31.

on insurance companies, that will be passed on to all customers.

:05:32.:05:34.

It's been designed to lower the cost of home insurance for those

:05:35.:05:37.

in the worst-affected areas who currently pay thousands

:05:38.:05:39.

of pounds in premiums and large excess charges.

:05:40.:05:45.

Dame Judi Dench has became the most successful actor in the history

:05:46.:05:48.

The veteran actress picked up a record eighth gong for best

:05:49.:05:54.

supporting actress for her role in The Winter's Tale.

:05:55.:05:57.

No-one has won as many Oliviers for acting since the awards began

:05:58.:06:00.

I had a bet with my grandson, which I've now lost.

:06:01.:06:09.

And I'm never going to be allowed to forget it.

:06:10.:06:15.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News -

:06:16.:06:18.

Here are some messages from you about Leicester City and our fans

:06:19.:06:32.

doing those messages for us. On Facebook, I hope Leicester win

:06:33.:06:36.

the league, it will give smaller clubs hope and is a fairy tale. A

:06:37.:06:40.

tweet, Leicester City's rides have been the most formidable turnaround

:06:41.:06:44.

in football history. This from Dave on Twitter, I have to say, the

:06:45.:06:47.

Leicester City fans on your programme are a brilliant example of

:06:48.:06:49.

how to support your team. Do get in touch with us

:06:50.:06:52.

throughout the morning - use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE,

:06:53.:07:02.

and if you text, you will be charged Later in the programme we will hear

:07:03.:07:09.

from a man who is a recruitment consultant by day and mixed martial

:07:10.:07:17.

arts combated by night. It has grown in popularity, if you do it, get in

:07:18.:07:18.

touch and tell us why. England's men were beaten in

:07:19.:07:32.

astonishing fashion at the death in the World T20 final yesterday, joy

:07:33.:07:36.

for the West Indies as they took the men's and women's titles.

:07:37.:07:40.

Disappointment for England's men, 54 from Joe Root setting a respectable

:07:41.:07:45.

target of 156 with the bat. Excellent fielding left the West

:07:46.:07:49.

Indies needing 19 from the final over. Carlos Brathwaite Kit four

:07:50.:07:53.

straight sixes to snatch a victories from the jaws of defeat for the West

:07:54.:07:58.

Indies, leaving Ben Stokes distraught. The victors jubilant

:07:59.:08:01.

after a tournament they very nearly boycotted.

:08:02.:08:05.

Jubilation for Leicester City as well, as you have been talking

:08:06.:08:08.

about. In the space of one year they have gone from seven points from

:08:09.:08:13.

Premier League safety and facing relegation, to seven points clear at

:08:14.:08:17.

the top of the table. They beat Southampton 1-4 thanks to Wes

:08:18.:08:21.

Morgan's header, and he was praised by Claudio Ranieri who says he

:08:22.:08:25.

believes they can continue their magical season after four straight

:08:26.:08:29.

1-40 victories. Louis van Gaal admitted Manchester

:08:30.:08:32.

United were lucky to beat Everton 1-4 you read thanks to Anthony

:08:33.:08:35.

Martial's winner. United far from their best but they are now one

:08:36.:08:50.

point behind fourth placed Manchester City in the race for a

:08:51.:08:52.

spot in the Champions League. Lewis Hamilton could have a battle

:08:53.:08:55.

on his hands to hold onto his Formula 1 crown this season after

:08:56.:08:57.

his Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg made it two wins from two this

:08:58.:09:00.

season, cruising to victory at the Bahrain Grand Prix. A slow start

:09:01.:09:02.

from Hamilton meant another boy did pole position, a collision on the

:09:03.:09:06.

first laptop into seven. He recovered to third behind Rosberg

:09:07.:09:10.

and Kimi Raikkonen. England's Charley Hull just missed

:09:11.:09:14.

out on her first win in a golf major. The 20-year-old from

:09:15.:09:19.

Kettering finished second in the ANA inspiration in California, one shot

:09:20.:09:23.

behind the winner Lydia Ko. I played great, apart from the front nine it

:09:24.:09:29.

was a bit of a slow start, a couple of bogeys, two overthrew eight, then

:09:30.:09:33.

I birdied nine, ten, 11, gone on through a role through there and I

:09:34.:09:38.

felt good. It seems there is a new celebration

:09:39.:09:42.

doing the rounds thanks to the West Indies and their players. They are

:09:43.:09:47.

calling it the champions' dance, a new way to rub everyone's faces in

:09:48.:09:50.

it when you are the best! Dwayne Bravo and the captain Allah arriving

:09:51.:09:56.

back at their hotel after victory in Kolkata. Clearly it is catching --

:09:57.:10:03.

and their captain there. Usain the champion! Chris, the

:10:04.:10:11.

champion! Usain Bolt has a good thing going on

:10:12.:10:15.

he should stick to the celebration he has already got!

:10:16.:10:18.

I will be back for the headlines at around half past, see you then.

:10:19.:10:21.

An independent inquiry into allegations of doping

:10:22.:10:31.

by British sports stars, including Premier League

:10:32.:10:34.

footballers, is due to begin after a London-based

:10:35.:10:36.

doctor claimed to have prescribed large numbers of performance

:10:37.:10:38.

Dr Mark Bonar, who was secretly recorded by the Sunday Times,

:10:39.:10:44.

The inquiry will examine why the UK Anti Doping agency took no action

:10:45.:10:48.

when it was made aware of Dr Bonar's activities in 2014.

:10:49.:10:50.

Here's an extract of the Sunday Times secret recording:

:10:51.:10:54.

Obviously, some of these treatments I use are banned

:10:55.:10:56.

on the professional, you know, circuit.

:10:57.:10:59.

Having said that, I've worked with lots of

:11:00.:11:08.

professional athletes, who do use these treatments.

:11:09.:11:11.

The truth of the matter is, drugs are in sport.

:11:12.:11:20.

Now, what I do is, I prescribe responsibly.

:11:21.:11:29.

And I try to keep my patients the optimum

:11:30.:11:31.

So if someone came into me and said, why are you giving

:11:32.:11:36.

I can say, look, his testosterone level is 15.

:11:37.:11:44.

He has symptoms of testosterone deficiency syndrome.

:11:45.:11:50.

His levels were sub-optimal, I just topped him up.

:11:51.:11:56.

But that's not the real reason, the real

:11:57.:11:59.

Yeah, but it's how you sell it.

:12:00.:12:07.

Culture Secretary John Whittingdale has tweeted that he's meeting UK

:12:08.:12:09.

Anti-Doping today to find out why no action was taken,

:12:10.:12:13.

adding that he's deeply concerned by the Sunday Times' revelvations.

:12:14.:12:15.

We can speak now to the former Chelsea, Everton and Scotland

:12:16.:12:23.

footballer Pat Nevin, Professor Mike McNamee,

:12:24.:12:24.

professor of sports ethics at Swansea University,

:12:25.:12:30.

who's conducted research for the UK Anti-Doping Agency

:12:31.:12:31.

and Lord Colin Moynihan, former chairman of the British

:12:32.:12:34.

Olympic Association - he's started a petition to make

:12:35.:12:36.

Why should it become analysed? Two reasons, taking a cocktail of drugs

:12:37.:12:44.

is cheating the clean athlete out of selection or livelihood, and there

:12:45.:12:48.

is nothing worse in sport, sport should be clean, and if you

:12:49.:12:51.

knowingly take a cocktail of drugs, you will never hear about the clean

:12:52.:12:54.

athlete who has trained month in, month out... But there are already

:12:55.:13:00.

sanctions for athletes who cheat and are caught? There are one, two,

:13:01.:13:05.

three or four year sentences at most. The reality is even the world

:13:06.:13:10.

anti-doping agency has said, is that a sufficient deterrent? Countries

:13:11.:13:14.

around the world, Germany, Austria, Italy, France, New Zealand, has

:13:15.:13:18.

said, no, it is not a sufficient deterrent, and when you see the

:13:19.:13:23.

level of doping in sport, worldwide, tragically, you come to the

:13:24.:13:26.

conclusion that we have to realise this is broad, many of these

:13:27.:13:30.

industries are multibillion-dollar industries and if you defraud

:13:31.:13:33.

somebody you should face criminal sanctions, and that is why we have

:13:34.:13:36.

launched a petition today to introduce criminalisation of doping

:13:37.:13:40.

in sport, specific legislation to that effect. And that would include

:13:41.:13:46.

the athlete, the sports person who takes the performance enhancing

:13:47.:13:49.

drugs? Would it include their entourage, doctors, physios? All

:13:50.:13:56.

those involved in the trafficking of the drugs and giving the drugs to

:13:57.:14:00.

the athlete, colluding with the athlete in taking those drugs to

:14:01.:14:03.

cheat fellow athlete out of selection. It includes all of those,

:14:04.:14:07.

so not just the athletes but what we need to do is to crack those who

:14:08.:14:12.

traffic in drugs, stop them and make sure they are held accountable to

:14:13.:14:16.

law, and around the world governments are now introducing

:14:17.:14:20.

this, it is sad it has take on us so long to do it, but I believe it is

:14:21.:14:24.

essential. Pat Nevin, what about criminalising not only the sports

:14:25.:14:27.

person but those around them? First of all I'm very angry about it as

:14:28.:14:31.

well, just like Lord Moynihan. Furious that drugs are used in sport

:14:32.:14:38.

and that clean athlete are cheated. I wouldn't go so far as to

:14:39.:14:41.

criminalise people who are doing it. Why not? If you let the finish! As

:14:42.:14:51.

far as I would go, five-year bans, ten new bands, fair enough, but

:14:52.:14:54.

going further than that you have to be careful because there are people

:14:55.:14:58.

taking drugs sometimes mistakenly, sometimes through the use or

:14:59.:15:02.

stupidity and to criminalise and put people in jail for that sort of

:15:03.:15:05.

thing is pushing it a bit, it gets into a messy area. I am not in

:15:06.:15:10.

anyway backing them, not in any way back in the position of what they

:15:11.:15:14.

do. Stronger, harsher treatments, and also better work with the

:15:15.:15:19.

anti-doping agencies, if it is football through Fifa, through

:15:20.:15:24.

international athletics, as far as I understand, I'm sure Michael talk

:15:25.:15:28.

about this, I think ?6 million of Government money, a drop in the

:15:29.:15:33.

ocean. I think going through the sports we have to make sure that the

:15:34.:15:35.

money is going clean. Sometimes it is an innocent mistake.

:15:36.:15:45.

Sometimes the stupidity of youthfulness, why should they end up

:15:46.:15:50.

with a spell in prison? Well, the law would make clear that only those

:15:51.:15:57.

who knowingly take drugs to cheat fellow athletes out of their career,

:15:58.:16:02.

who are committing fraud would be considered to be going to prison.

:16:03.:16:06.

The law would be tightly drafted. Pat is right. There are a lot of

:16:07.:16:13.

athletes who don't know what growth hormones which would been in the

:16:14.:16:21.

steak they had last night. Those who take drugs over a lengthy of time to

:16:22.:16:27.

defraud a clean athlete should face the law. Pat says and I understand

:16:28.:16:31.

and he makes a good point, let's try and do life bans or long time bans.

:16:32.:16:37.

When I was chairman of the British Olympic Association, we asked the

:16:38.:16:40.

athletes if they agreed. Nearly 100% said yes. We took that forward as a

:16:41.:16:46.

selection policy and the World Anti-Doping Agency took us to court

:16:47.:16:50.

and said that was disproportionate so we lost that Pat. I wished we had

:16:51.:16:56.

got it through. We lost that and we are down to three, maybe four years

:16:57.:17:00.

ban and there were still people out there defrauding and those are

:17:01.:17:04.

defrauding the fellow athletes and destroying their lives, the clean

:17:05.:17:07.

athletes we want to see, those are the only ones that the legislation

:17:08.:17:12.

will focus on. Professor what do you think about the suggestion of

:17:13.:17:16.

criminalising doping? A fine or a prison sentence? We need a little

:17:17.:17:23.

distinction. It is not clear where the source of this story is a rogue

:17:24.:17:27.

doctor saying he assisted 150 athletes to dope or the severity and

:17:28.:17:30.

the effectiveness of the sanctions that are placed on athletes. At the

:17:31.:17:33.

minute with the first part, all we have got is someone who says that

:17:34.:17:37.

they doped 150 athletes. Whether we believe them or not, that's an

:17:38.:17:40.

entirely separate affair. He seemed to have no knowledge of wada

:17:41.:17:47.

governance and structures. This would be a very, very pou wirful

:17:48.:17:52.

deterrent, but the question is two-fold. One is a principle

:17:53.:17:56.

question, is a doping offence so severe, does it so offend public

:17:57.:17:59.

morality that we ought to have a criminal law? The second point is

:18:00.:18:02.

about practise and operationalisation. In anti-doping

:18:03.:18:06.

in the current structures, anti-doping officials don't need to

:18:07.:18:12.

prove intentionality, nor could they, do they don't have the

:18:13.:18:15.

resource to track down to people to come to that burden of liability. At

:18:16.:18:21.

the minute, the apty doping regulations if it is in your body,

:18:22.:18:26.

that's your problem because you have a duty of care to present yourself

:18:27.:18:33.

clean. If this person knowingly and systematicically took drugs we have

:18:34.:18:37.

got to have stronger legal back-ups, I don't know how we would afford it

:18:38.:18:43.

and B operationalise it, I am not sure A, it is justified in principle

:18:44.:18:48.

or B, that we can operationalise it. Pat, I mean, as Mike says, we don't

:18:49.:18:53.

know if this story is true of the Sunday Times says it has no

:18:54.:18:57.

independent evidence that this doctor treated footballers or they

:18:58.:19:01.

mentioned boxing and tennis and so on. But would it surprise you if

:19:02.:19:09.

footballers, the English Premier League were taking

:19:10.:19:12.

performance-enhancing drugs? You would have to be wilfully naive to

:19:13.:19:17.

suggest no footballers would take it. Everything is there, the whole

:19:18.:19:20.

cocktail is there. There is a massive amount of money available.

:19:21.:19:25.

If you look at football particularly, it is much more about

:19:26.:19:28.

fitness than it has ever been before. Tactically, about teams that

:19:29.:19:31.

press and the want to do that for long periods of time. To do that,

:19:32.:19:36.

you have to have physical stamina. To keep on going not just for 90

:19:37.:19:41.

minutes every three or four days and the incentives are massive. So there

:19:42.:19:46.

is no surprise that there is a possibility and it would be as I say

:19:47.:19:52.

naive to suggest it hasn't happened. There is one other suggestion I

:19:53.:19:55.

would make as well, within the game of football, I have been

:19:56.:19:59.

disappointed for sometime the acceptance of low level cheating. I

:20:00.:20:04.

don't think it is low level, but A, diving, B, throwing yourself to the

:20:05.:20:07.

ground and pretending you have been hit in the face. We have been soft

:20:08.:20:10.

on that and because we have been soft on that, the culture in

:20:11.:20:14.

football has slightly changed. A little bit of cheating is OK here

:20:15.:20:17.

and there. Well, I don't think that's acceptable. We should bring

:20:18.:20:22.

our culture more back to clean in every possible way and that means

:20:23.:20:27.

whether it means drugs or the way you play, your attitude on the

:20:28.:20:30.

field, we must be able to do that and I think the governing

:20:31.:20:33.

authorities should do that. They have let it slip and the culture

:20:34.:20:37.

slips with it. Professor let me ask you what you think of the Culture

:20:38.:20:41.

Secretary ordering an investigation into UK anti-doping because it is

:20:42.:20:45.

funded by taxpayers money as Pat said, a drop in the ocean, ?6

:20:46.:20:49.

million a year, is the right thing to do? Do we need to find out what

:20:50.:20:55.

they did two years when they were tipped off about this medic? I have

:20:56.:20:59.

done a lot of research around the world in relation to anti-doping and

:21:00.:21:05.

I can say that UK anti-doping as an anti-doping organisation is held in

:21:06.:21:08.

high regard. People would use phrases like a world-class research

:21:09.:21:12.

anti-doping organisation. So for me, it does seem an excessive response.

:21:13.:21:16.

It is clear that they are less well funded than they were before 2012

:21:17.:21:21.

and if people are more serious about trying to track down cheats, they

:21:22.:21:25.

have to have more resources. I don't think that public moneys is well

:21:26.:21:29.

spent funding such an organisation. But if I might come back to the

:21:30.:21:34.

football example if I may? Yes. No, I have talked to lots of premiership

:21:35.:21:39.

heads of medical services, no premiership medical team is going to

:21:40.:21:44.

be sending their athletes to a doctor such as Dr Bonar, where it

:21:45.:21:51.

may happen in the margins where an agent has power over a player who

:21:52.:21:56.

says you are no on the bench, you have got an injury maybe we need to

:21:57.:22:03.

go and get advice or assistance outside the club's structures. Those

:22:04.:22:08.

areas are more fertile for doping than the sports medicine operations

:22:09.:22:13.

of a premiership team or any other elite sports support system. I don't

:22:14.:22:18.

see physician assisted doping there. Can I cut in for a second? It

:22:19.:22:22.

happened in French football in the past at the top level. It has been

:22:23.:22:25.

caught in the past. So the fact, I agree with you, I think it would be

:22:26.:22:29.

A, I don't think clubs would be that corrupt and I don't think it they

:22:30.:22:33.

would be that stupid either to do it within the clubs and to think that's

:22:34.:22:37.

a problem, I don't think anyone is make that point as suggested through

:22:38.:22:42.

some newspapers. You're right, it is individual players or their advisers

:22:43.:22:45.

doing it, but we have to be aware here because it has happened in the

:22:46.:22:49.

game before, the likelihood isn't it is going to be the Premiership and

:22:50.:22:54.

aim' sure I'm talking to the converted, it is the smaller leagues

:22:55.:22:57.

with the Premier League that have not the resources to check it. There

:22:58.:23:00.

is where the danger starts. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you

:23:01.:23:08.

for coming on the programme. Your views welcome.

:23:09.:23:12.

Dr Mark Bonar, the doctor involved in the alleged doping wrote this

:23:13.:23:15.

on Twitter: "The Sunday Times allegations are false

:23:16.:23:17.

I have never had a relationship with any premier football

:23:18.:23:20.

Still to come: When the rush hour is over, it is suits off

:23:21.:23:25.

for the white-collar workers taking up cage fighting.

:23:26.:23:28.

We've followed one recruitment consultant as he prepares

:23:29.:23:29.

Dan says, "MMA is a great way to stay fit and competitive outside the

:23:30.:23:42.

office. I have total respect for these guys slash girls." If you are

:23:43.:23:47.

a MMA fighter, a cage fighter, do let me know because I'd really like

:23:48.:23:50.

to talk to you before the end of the programme.

:23:51.:23:56.

Unions are meeting in London today to plan the next steps

:23:57.:23:59.

of their campaign to save the British steel industry.

:24:00.:24:01.

Tata Steel announced last week that it was selling

:24:02.:24:03.

Our political guru Norman Smith is here.

:24:04.:24:06.

The unions are meeting today and I have got slightly good news for them

:24:07.:24:12.

and slightly not such good news. I have got off the blower to aides to

:24:13.:24:18.

the man who is the frontrunner to possibly be a buyer who runs a

:24:19.:24:22.

company called Liberty House. They own steel plants in Britain and they

:24:23.:24:28.

purchased a couple of small ones which were threatened with closure

:24:29.:24:32.

in Scotland. He is flying into London later today to carry on

:24:33.:24:35.

conversations with Tata and with Government ministers. His people say

:24:36.:24:39.

it is encouraging and positive and they think the Government has been

:24:40.:24:44.

proactive. Here is the down side, it is clear to me he is not looking at

:24:45.:24:48.

buying the whole lot. He is interested in buying some of the

:24:49.:24:52.

rolling mills, he is not that interested as far as I can gather in

:24:53.:24:57.

buying the blast furnace at Port Talbot. He has a very big issue with

:24:58.:25:03.

the pension book. In other words taking overall the pension

:25:04.:25:07.

liabilities of Tata and he is looking for fairly significant

:25:08.:25:12.

Government assistance. On the one hand encouraging, on the other hand

:25:13.:25:15.

there are serious reservations. In terms of what sort of support the

:25:16.:25:19.

Government might be able to offer, we got a sense of that yet frommed

:25:20.:25:25.

Business Secretary when he appeared on the Maar programme.

:25:26.:25:31.

They will want to look at plant, they will look at pensions and they

:25:32.:25:36.

will want to look at power supply. It is clear, I mean... We can talk

:25:37.:25:42.

about all of those. You are not going to get too much out of me on

:25:43.:25:47.

those issues because a lot will be commercially sensitive. These are

:25:48.:25:50.

the kind of things, we have thought of and we have started working on

:25:51.:25:54.

and what I hope you will have the offer document from Tata, over lay

:25:55.:25:58.

on top of that, the help the British Government can provide, and then you

:25:59.:26:02.

have the makings of a successful deal.

:26:03.:26:07.

No one wants to show their hand too openly, Tata or the possible buyer

:26:08.:26:15.

or the Government, but it seems to me what could be the key element in

:26:16.:26:21.

any deal is the pensions issue because just talking to Mr Gupta's

:26:22.:26:25.

people, they say the idea any company is going to take over a

:26:26.:26:29.

pension book which involves not just those currently working for Tata,

:26:30.:26:34.

but previous British Steel employees and paying pensions going into the

:26:35.:26:38.

future and you are talking about a total of 140,000 people, you know,

:26:39.:26:41.

almost no company is going to do that. So the question mark is will

:26:42.:26:45.

the Government be able to take over the pension book in the same way as

:26:46.:26:48.

they did with Royal Mail? You remember when Royal Mail was

:26:49.:26:54.

privatised, they took over the ?10 billion pension pot for that, it is

:26:55.:26:58.

ambiguous as to whether the Government will be able to do that

:26:59.:27:01.

under EU state rules and we will have to ask the European Commission

:27:02.:27:04.

later today to find out whether if the Government buys the pension

:27:05.:27:08.

book, in other words says we will pay the pensions, that flouts EU

:27:09.:27:12.

rules because if it does flout EU rules and the Government isn't able

:27:13.:27:15.

to pick up the pension pot, then the prospects of getting a deal, any

:27:16.:27:20.

deal, I think will look pretty remote.

:27:21.:27:23.

With us is Roy Rickhuss, General secretary of Community

:27:24.:27:26.

who is leading talks this afternoon, Tony Burke,

:27:27.:27:30.

Assistant General Secretary of manufacturing for Unite Union

:27:31.:27:32.

who will also be attending the meeting this afternoon

:27:33.:27:37.

Welcome all of you. Right, Roy first of all, do you think the pension

:27:38.:27:45.

liability aspect of this is crucial in terms of finding a potential

:27:46.:27:50.

buyer? Well, clearly, it is and what the report has just highlighted the

:27:51.:27:53.

Government have recognised that, but there are things that can be done

:27:54.:27:57.

and we look to try and explore those discussions. At the moment we have

:27:58.:28:01.

had no official talks around the situation with the pensions, but it

:28:02.:28:04.

is clearly a significant issue for our members. Our members, you know,

:28:05.:28:09.

they value their pension. It is a significant part of their terms of

:28:10.:28:14.

and conditions and it is part of the reasons they work for Taz ta, but we

:28:15.:28:18.

need to have discussions and we are willing to have the discussions when

:28:19.:28:22.

this becomes more official. Tony, what are you picking up in terms of

:28:23.:28:25.

potential buyers? Well, at what are you picking up in terms of

:28:26.:28:28.

moment in time, if you read the papers, there are a lot of potential

:28:29.:28:33.

purchasers, Liberty, all these things are in the papers. The main

:28:34.:28:37.

issue at the moment is, we want the Prime Minister to become directly

:28:38.:28:41.

involved, to get a grip on this situation... The Business Secretary,

:28:42.:28:47.

what he is doing is not enough? I don't believe it is enough. We are

:28:48.:28:51.

demand the Prime Minister gets a grip of the situation and brings

:28:52.:28:54.

everyone together, the industry and the unions to try to sort this out,

:28:55.:28:58.

not just the current situation in regard to what is happening in Tata,

:28:59.:29:03.

but for the future of the UK steel industry and secondly, we need him

:29:04.:29:08.

to lead discussions in the European Union and stopl blocking the tariffs

:29:09.:29:12.

that the EU are prepared to put on Chinese steel in order we get a

:29:13.:29:16.

level playing field. Richard Fuller, your boss needs to take over this

:29:17.:29:20.

from the Business Secretary because according to these gentlemen, Mr Jaf

:29:21.:29:24.

individual isn't doing a good enough job. Would you agree? Since he

:29:25.:29:32.

became Business Secretary, the Government started to get to grip...

:29:33.:29:36.

Sorry, are you actually saying that with a straight face? In the report

:29:37.:29:42.

we did in the Select Committee, we conceived some of the problems go

:29:43.:29:45.

back ten years. The energy costs zblps what has he done about the

:29:46.:29:49.

energy costs or the business rates? He paid back, compensation has been

:29:50.:29:53.

paid to steel manufacturers for the extra environmental levy that's put

:29:54.:29:57.

on businesses which is a particular problem for steel industry. So the

:29:58.:30:01.

money has gone back. We have rewritten, the Government has

:30:02.:30:04.

rewritten the rule on procurement to provide a push for the future so

:30:05.:30:10.

there is benefit to steel manufacturing. These issues have

:30:11.:30:13.

been there for sometime. The refreshing thing is late though it

:30:14.:30:17.

be, those issues are being confronted. The tax issue is

:30:18.:30:20.

interesting because that's a tax that was put on by our Government.

:30:21.:30:24.

It wasn't a tax levied by any other European Government. So basically,

:30:25.:30:30.

we put a tax on our industry which we had to go to Europe to ask if we

:30:31.:30:34.

could pay it back, a crazy situation, but nevertheless Richard

:30:35.:30:36.

is right, the Government made a start on that. If you look at the

:30:37.:30:40.

asks of the industry and we helped to formulate those asks with the UK

:30:41.:30:45.

Steel and it is fair to say the Government made a start, but I

:30:46.:30:47.

wouldn't put it any stronger than saying they have made a start. There

:30:48.:30:54.

is a lot more to be done and the issue about Chinese dumping needs to

:30:55.:30:57.

be address add and we haven't addressed that and it is frustrating

:30:58.:31:04.

for the workforce when you see Prime Ministers go tick, tick, tick we've

:31:05.:31:08.

done this, and we go, you haven't and clearly, you haven't revolved

:31:09.:31:12.

those matters and those matters are ongoing. Those issues need to be

:31:13.:31:17.

resolved, but Tony is right, the most important issue is we secure

:31:18.:31:20.

those plants, we secure the jobs, and we make sure we have got a f

:31:21.:31:26.

future ture for the steel industry for us to be talk youing about, if

:31:27.:31:30.

we haven't got the jobs the other issues are irrelevant.

:31:31.:31:35.

What is the future for the people involved in the steelworks?

:31:36.:31:42.

Pensioners who worked there in the past, people in the local community?

:31:43.:31:46.

I'm from Bedford, economically we are similar in terms of

:31:47.:31:49.

unemployment, income levels, but we don't have a large employer. We in

:31:50.:31:53.

Bedford would know that if we had that employee at correct, they would

:31:54.:31:57.

want the community, not just locally but across the country, to come

:31:58.:32:00.

together to find solutions. No-one will disagree with that, it is just

:32:01.:32:05.

doing it. There are 40,000 workers in the steel industry in the supply

:32:06.:32:19.

chain who are staring down the barrel of a gun at the moment and

:32:20.:32:23.

our priority is to try to stabilise the situation. Let's make it clear,

:32:24.:32:26.

manufacturing in the UK depends on having a vibrant steel industry, and

:32:27.:32:28.

without that, one of our foundation industries, there will be

:32:29.:32:30.

significant numbers of jobs lost in manufacturing. We are already

:32:31.:32:33.

dealing, the UK's biggest manufacturing union, we already

:32:34.:32:37.

dealing with companies who are indicating they want to talk to us

:32:38.:32:41.

about declaring redundancies because of the situation in the steel

:32:42.:32:45.

industry, and what we are saying is that we need immediate help and we

:32:46.:32:48.

need the Prime Minister to step in and we need all the assistance to

:32:49.:32:52.

beget them, go to Europe. The problem is, I understand what

:32:53.:32:56.

Richard is saying, but the reality is this Government has not had

:32:57.:33:01.

industrial or manufacturing strategy from day one. Last week blame was

:33:02.:33:07.

put at Vince Cable's beat, that was unfair. There is no industrial

:33:08.:33:11.

strategy, apart from, it seems to us, we are prepared to do what we

:33:12.:33:15.

can to help the Chinese economy. OK, we have to leave it there, thank you

:33:16.:33:19.

for coming on the programme. This news just in, former X factor

:33:20.:33:24.

judge Tulisa has pleaded guilty at Highbury Magistrates' Court to

:33:25.:33:26.

drink-driving after she crashed her Ferrari.

:33:27.:33:29.

After the daily commute, it's into the cage for more and more

:33:30.:33:34.

white collar workers taking up mixed martial arts.

:33:35.:33:36.

We've followed one recruitment consultant as he prepares

:33:37.:33:38.

Good morning, time for the latest BBC News with Ben.

:33:39.:33:44.

A huge cache of confidential documents has been leaked,

:33:45.:33:47.

revealing how the rich and powerful use tax havens to hide their wealth.

:33:48.:33:50.

They come from one of the world's most secretive companies,

:33:51.:33:56.

a law firm called Mossack Fonseca based in Panama.

:33:57.:34:03.

In comments broadcast on Panamanian television, one of the co-founders

:34:04.:34:08.

of the firm confirmed that the company had been hacked.

:34:09.:34:14.

TRANSLATION: We are a company with almost 40 years in the national and

:34:15.:34:18.

international market and we have never been found guilty of

:34:19.:34:23.

absolutely anything. Yes, we have been hacked in a limited way, it is

:34:24.:34:28.

so. We have already repaired the damage, but we have been hacked in a

:34:29.:34:35.

limited way. All those names that show up there, including the

:34:36.:34:38.

football players, including the Mafia types, all of those are not

:34:39.:34:43.

our clients, they are clients of intermediaries that bought one of

:34:44.:34:49.

our related companies, soldered, and those people used it for who knows

:34:50.:34:53.

what. The Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond

:34:54.:34:57.

has welcomed the leaked revelations. It is interesting when information

:34:58.:35:00.

like this league is because it reminds people who are up to no good

:35:01.:35:06.

how fragile and how former rebel they make themselves by indulging in

:35:07.:35:12.

this kind of activity. -- how vulnerable. We have an

:35:13.:35:14.

anti-corruption Summit here in May, it is a key agenda for the Prime

:35:15.:35:18.

Minister, we are working with many countries around the world,

:35:19.:35:22.

including Panama, I had a meeting with the Panamanian vice president a

:35:23.:35:25.

few weeks ago on this issue, we are making significant progress.

:35:26.:35:29.

In the last hour, a second boat of migrants who are being returned

:35:30.:35:32.

from Greece to Turkey under an EU deal have docked in the Turkish

:35:33.:35:35.

It's thought the vast majority were from Pakistan and had

:35:36.:35:38.

As part of the deal, more than a dozen Syrian migrants

:35:39.:35:42.

have been flown to Germany this morning.

:35:43.:35:46.

A murder investigation has been launched after a 17-year-old boy

:35:47.:35:48.

was stabbed to death in south-east London.

:35:49.:35:50.

Two teenagers, aged 15 and 16, have been arrested.

:35:51.:35:55.

Officers were called to reports of an altercation between youths

:35:56.:35:57.

in Lewisham, at around 8pm on Sunday evening.

:35:58.:35:59.

There are calls for doping in sport to be made a criminal offence.

:36:00.:36:11.

Lord Moynihan, the former chairman of the British Olympic Association,

:36:12.:36:13.

has started a petition calling for a change in the law.

:36:14.:36:16.

It follows allegations in the Sunday Times of performance

:36:17.:36:18.

enhancing drugs being taken in a range of sports,

:36:19.:36:20.

including boxing, football and cricket.

:36:21.:36:26.

Those who take a cocktail of drugs over a lengthy period of time get

:36:27.:36:33.

those drugs to enhance performance, to defraud a clean athlete, to

:36:34.:36:36.

devastate the lives of a clean athlete, should face the law.

:36:37.:36:41.

That's a summary of the latest news, join me for BBC Newsroom

:36:42.:36:44.

Here's the sport headlines now with Hugh.

:36:45.:36:50.

Most newspapers carrying pictures of a devastated Ben Stokes, Captain

:36:51.:36:56.

Eoin Morgan saying he will give him time to hurt after the final over

:36:57.:36:59.

which saw the West Indies that a thrilling win in the world Twenty20

:37:00.:37:01.

final. Morgan has backed Stokes to come

:37:02.:37:04.

back 'stronger for the experience.' A fourth 1-0 win in a row

:37:05.:37:06.

for Leicester has put them seven points clear at the top

:37:07.:37:11.

of the Premier League with six

:37:12.:37:20.

games to go. They beat Southampton thanks

:37:21.:37:21.

to a goal from Captain Wes Morgan. Louis Van Gaal admitted

:37:22.:37:24.

Manchester United were lucky to beat Everton 1-0 thanks to

:37:25.:37:26.

Anthony Martial's winner. His side are now a point behind

:37:27.:37:28.

4th-placed Manchester City. Lewis Hamilton could only manage

:37:29.:37:30.

third having started from pole as his Mercedes teammate

:37:31.:37:32.

Nico Rosberg made it two wins from two this season

:37:33.:37:35.

at the Bahrain Grand Prix. That is it for now, I will have all

:37:36.:37:40.

the sport throughout the day on BBC News.

:37:41.:37:46.

Junior doctors in England have begun new legal proceedings against the

:37:47.:37:50.

Government over their decision to impose that new employment contract

:37:51.:37:53.

on them. Our health editor Hugh Pym is here. Why have they done this?

:37:54.:37:59.

It is interesting that these junior doctors in England, the dispute is

:38:00.:38:03.

England only, have raised money through a crowdfunding campaign,

:38:04.:38:08.

?100,000, or a little bit more, to begin legal action. Now they have

:38:09.:38:12.

got a firm of lawyers who say they think there is a case that could go

:38:13.:38:15.

all the way to the High Court for judicial review. It has not quite

:38:16.:38:18.

got they get, they are writing to the Department for health looking at

:38:19.:38:24.

claims and allegations this contract was not lawfully imposed, no

:38:25.:38:27.

consultation, the Secretary of State did not have the power to do that,

:38:28.:38:30.

so they are awaiting the Government's response but pending

:38:31.:38:33.

that they will proceed. We have not yet got the view from the Department

:38:34.:38:37.

of Health on this. There is also another action being launched by the

:38:38.:38:41.

British -- British Medical Association, the doctors' union,

:38:42.:38:45.

challenging the equalities impact of this new contract which is being

:38:46.:38:49.

imposed after months of negotiations between the Government and the BMA

:38:50.:38:53.

which got nowhere. This week there is another strike by junior doctors

:38:54.:38:57.

in England, a 48-hour strike affecting routine non-urgent care,

:38:58.:39:01.

again at the end of April a planned all out strike, doctors walking out

:39:02.:39:06.

of all forms of care which has never before happened in the history of

:39:07.:39:08.

the NHS. Thank you very much.

:39:09.:39:12.

The first migrants to be returned from Greece to Turkey under the

:39:13.:39:17.

controversial EU deal have arrived in the Turkish port of Dikili.

:39:18.:39:21.

Wenzel Michalski is from the organisation Human Rights Watch

:39:22.:39:23.

and has been following the latest developments in Lesbos.

:39:24.:39:26.

How has it been going so far? They returned people who apparently were

:39:27.:39:37.

not asylum seekers, economic migrants, so the perfect pick, the

:39:38.:39:43.

perfect show for the media, but what we have to do is monitor the

:39:44.:39:46.

situation, what will happen in a couple of days when all the cameras

:39:47.:39:51.

are gone, when they are starting to deport children, women, families,

:39:52.:39:57.

which is highly illegal. Is this going to work, this deal, from your

:39:58.:40:01.

point of view? It doesn't work at all, already it doesn't work because

:40:02.:40:06.

the former hotspots in Greece, which were meant to be reception and

:40:07.:40:12.

asylum processing centres, are turned into detention camps, people

:40:13.:40:16.

are detained, but they are not criminals, they should not be

:40:17.:40:20.

detained, they are just asylum seekers, refugees, migrants, and

:40:21.:40:24.

they should be able to walk free. So what will happen, if it is not

:40:25.:40:27.

working, what do you say is likely to happen? We hope the European

:40:28.:40:35.

Court of Human Rights will find a solution. It is against the

:40:36.:40:41.

constitution of certain member states, it is against the Jeep --

:40:42.:40:46.

the Geneva Convention is, a group of lawyers is already filing

:40:47.:40:49.

complaints, so I think we do anything, is human organisations

:40:50.:40:53.

will do anything to cancel this deal. How can you can select? You

:40:54.:41:05.

have to stop it. How? Just don't do what you do, because it is illegal.

:41:06.:41:09.

Anybody doing something illegal is to stop what they are doing. You

:41:10.:41:13.

cannot park your car in a zone where you are not allowed, you cannot

:41:14.:41:17.

steal people's money, so what the European Union is now doing, and it

:41:18.:41:21.

is aware of it, it is just political will, they are doing something

:41:22.:41:25.

illegal, and it has to stop. Thank you very much for your time.

:41:26.:41:31.

When you think of mixed martial arts or cage fighting,

:41:32.:41:38.

you don't immediately think of a man in a business suit taking part.

:41:39.:41:41.

But the amateur scene is quickly growing in popularity

:41:42.:41:43.

There are more MMA gyms in the UK than ever before

:41:44.:41:47.

and more boxing rings are being replaced with a cage.

:41:48.:41:49.

MMA combines techniques from different martial arts

:41:50.:41:51.

Fighters are split into different weight categories and rounds

:41:52.:41:54.

Critics have labelled it "human cockfighting".

:41:55.:41:58.

Our reporter Benjamin Zand followed a recruitment consultant,

:41:59.:42:03.

as he entered the cage for the first time.

:42:04.:42:05.

His film, which lasts around 15 minutes, contains some

:42:06.:42:07.

Why else would you do it if you don't like hurting people?

:42:08.:42:19.

It is exciting, you don't know what is going to happen.

:42:20.:42:32.

OK, by this point you probably know what MMA is.

:42:33.:43:07.

With the UFC it has gone huge around the world,

:43:08.:43:12.

There was a fight a few weeks ago, involving Conor McGregor

:43:13.:43:20.

and Nate Diaz, that was viewed by millions of people.

:43:21.:43:23.

Here in the UK, gyms are popping up up and down the country.

:43:24.:43:26.

And normal people who have normal jobs are taking part

:43:27.:43:28.

And in what is quite a hard-core thing.

:43:29.:43:31.

So I'm here to speak to a man called Ricky,

:43:32.:43:34.

who is fighting for the first time tonight, to figure out why,

:43:35.:43:37.

So he spends his days helping people find jobs.

:43:38.:43:45.

But, if his fighting career works out, he could soon be moving

:43:46.:43:48.

on to help people find their teeth after he has knocked them out

:43:49.:43:51.

in the octagon, MMA's fighting stage.

:43:52.:43:52.

How you feeling as you are entering the building?

:43:53.:43:54.

In case you do not know what MMA is, it means mixed martial arts.

:43:55.:44:05.

And it is a full-contact sport where you can fight standing up

:44:06.:44:08.

To do this, you can use a variety of combat techniques.

:44:09.:44:14.

This means, unlike in things like boxing, karate or jujitsu,

:44:15.:44:16.

where you can only use one fighting style, you can pretty much use

:44:17.:44:19.

anything you like against your opponent.

:44:20.:44:25.

You do fight in a cage, but it is not bare-knuckle fighting

:44:26.:44:28.

It has a strict set of rules monitored by the international MMA

:44:29.:44:32.

And things are banned, like kicking a downed opponent.

:44:33.:44:35.

It is a multi-million dollar industry and the UFC,

:44:36.:44:37.

or ultimate fighting championship, is the premier organisation in MMA.

:44:38.:44:40.

It's the biggest pay-per-view event provider in the world,

:44:41.:44:53.

And in 2014, it had revenues of $522 million.

:44:54.:44:57.

WC MMA, where I am heading today, is another smaller one in London.

:44:58.:45:02.

You are the only guy who knows, I suppose, because you know both.

:45:03.:45:07.

If I could, I would be a rich man, wouldn't I?

:45:08.:45:09.

If I knew the outcome of every fight.

:45:10.:45:11.

And every fight is the same, I can't wait to get in there

:45:12.:45:18.

and smash his head in, I am going to do this,

:45:19.:45:20.

Everybody gets in and thinks they are going to win.

:45:21.:45:24.

There ain't no one stepping in there thinking they are going to lose.

:45:25.:45:27.

You've got to believe, you've got to win.

:45:28.:45:29.

Without anything else, just stepping into the cage,

:45:30.:45:31.

is one of the hardest things that anybody is going to do.

:45:32.:45:34.

The walk down from here to that cage...

:45:35.:45:36.

After the first time, it is a piece of BLEEP.

:45:37.:45:41.

You let your mates down you are letting your friends down,

:45:42.:45:45.

you are letting your mum down, letting your kids down.

:45:46.:45:47.

Ricky is going to be fighting in six hours.

:45:48.:45:52.

He has got quite a long way, he is fighting at 11pm,

:45:53.:45:55.

He is fighting a guy, I suppose like the K-1 champion,

:45:56.:46:01.

Which, if that was me, and I have never fought before,

:46:02.:46:13.

that would be terrifying, but he does not seem

:46:14.:46:15.

There you go, first time, this is you.

:46:16.:46:22.

I don't think I will until the fight.

:46:23.:46:33.

Before your flight, do you want me and you to do

:46:34.:46:41.

You could spend the whole fight running to each of the corners.

:46:42.:46:51.

That is your nickname. That is not the best nickname.

:46:52.:46:57.

They say on one hand I bake, I cook, and I read novels,

:46:58.:47:06.

and I write, and on the next hand I play rugby and I fight and I fight

:47:07.:47:10.

Come and sort out your tickets, make sure you know where you are going,

:47:11.:47:46.

they will tell you what time and where the medical staff are.

:47:47.:47:49.

He has got to do the waiting game and that is the hardest part,

:47:50.:47:55.

If I were to imagine a promoter for MMA, I feel like you are exactly

:47:56.:48:00.

You are a bit scary. A very nice guy.

:48:01.:48:03.

Do you think there is more interest now than there was before?

:48:04.:48:08.

There are more gyms now in the UK now than ever before.

:48:09.:48:11.

If you look at every gym, they will have a cage.

:48:12.:48:15.

It used to be a ring, but now it is a cage,

:48:16.:48:18.

because everyone is getting into MMA.

:48:19.:48:20.

We are ten years from having, I am not saying no martial arts

:48:21.:48:25.

apart from mixed martial arts, but it will not be that far away.

:48:26.:48:28.

Who is the type of guy who comes to fight?

:48:29.:48:31.

Is it what people would imagine, this kind of guy on the fringes

:48:32.:48:34.

of society who sits at home punching the walls when he is angry?

:48:35.:48:37.

I think you have to go around and ask a lot of guys today what job

:48:38.:48:41.

you do, and some of them are so mild-mannered.

:48:42.:48:43.

I'm an accountant, I'm a doctor. I'm a policeman.

:48:44.:48:45.

I had a guy, he became heavyweight champion,

:48:46.:48:47.

he was earning 150 grand a year, and he gave it all up

:48:48.:48:50.

I suppose for a lot of people it is a little bit scary.

:48:51.:49:01.

These guys, big guys, throwing jabs at each other's faces,

:49:02.:49:03.

Do you understand why people are a little bit afraid

:49:04.:49:07.

I don't think it has a bad reputation.

:49:08.:49:10.

Sometimes people don't understand it.

:49:11.:49:11.

You speak to women about boxing, it is the same, you either love it

:49:12.:49:14.

You have got to remember one thing. Everybody understands fighting.

:49:15.:49:18.

You do not have to have English, speak any language, two men get

:49:19.:49:21.

So have you lost like that much weight for this?

:49:22.:49:29.

I reckon you need to get some of those professional photos done.

:49:30.:49:54.

What is the main reason for doing it?

:49:55.:49:59.

A solid reason for why you are doing this.

:50:00.:50:02.

The main reason is because I think I used to get beaten up a lot

:50:03.:50:05.

When I got older, it made me a bit of a weakling,

:50:06.:50:11.

If anything makes me feel fear, I sort of train myself to run at it.

:50:12.:50:20.

My dad one day was like, he was like, just go crazy.

:50:21.:50:23.

In my childhood I was a bit of a recluse, a bit of a geek,

:50:24.:50:27.

I used fighting and hitting people and hurting people as a way

:50:28.:50:35.

of gaining people's respect, I think.

:50:36.:50:37.

I think I get a lot of my friends like that.

:50:38.:50:42.

I suppose my whole identity. Like who I think I am.

:50:43.:50:51.

So who I think I am is someone who is hard, but...

:50:52.:50:54.

You said your friends said you were the hard guy.

:50:55.:50:56.

I think I'm hard but I don't know if I am.

:50:57.:51:01.

Can you usually tell, someone comes in and you are like,

:51:02.:51:14.

he is probably going to lose, he is probably going to win?

:51:15.:51:19.

Has he got like a black belt in killing people?

:51:20.:51:48.

Hey, Dave, can you tell me how it is going?

:51:49.:51:51.

Doing my nut in already, let me tell you.

:51:52.:51:55.

But it is going to get better, it is going to get more lively.

:51:56.:51:58.

As the event started the fights came in thick and fast.

:51:59.:52:09.

I am making a film the BBC about the rise...

:52:10.:52:20.

I didn't want a picture, but I will take a picture

:52:21.:52:23.

What will winning feel like if you win?

:52:24.:52:29.

It will feel like the opposite of losing.

:52:30.:52:31.

That is true, but what will it do for you like mentally?

:52:32.:52:46.

It will feel good for a few days. I can walk into the office...

:52:47.:52:50.

You like the acknowledgement from people, your peers,

:52:51.:52:54.

that you do something well, like recognition.

:52:55.:52:56.

And you like hurting people, don't you?

:52:57.:52:58.

Whereas when you do it, if you don't like hurting people,...

:52:59.:53:00.

That is the main reason why? Why do you think that is?

:53:01.:53:04.

I don't know, if I am on top of someone, punching

:53:05.:53:09.

someone in the face, like, it's a good

:53:10.:53:11.

I don't think many fighters would admit they like hurting people.

:53:12.:53:15.

Get on top of him and smash him to the floor, I much prefer that.

:53:16.:53:20.

Some people would be like, a bit, concerned to hear that.

:53:21.:53:23.

As Ricky continued to prepare for his fight I went on the search

:53:24.:53:35.

I don't know if this is going to end well.

:53:36.:54:02.

In gladiator fashion, the fighters were quickly back

:54:03.:54:04.

and one by one to centre stage to fight their opponents.

:54:05.:54:07.

And in the fighters' room, the tension started

:54:08.:54:09.

This is one fight room and there is another fight run over

:54:10.:54:13.

A lot of them are fighting for the first time.

:54:14.:54:19.

You are about to go to war with another man in front

:54:20.:54:23.

I would be scared, as well. Hopefully, he will do well.

:54:24.:54:31.

Although he would not admit it to me, he was nervous.

:54:32.:54:40.

But what's he going to do with it now?

:54:41.:55:44.

After it all finished, I got a few words out of him.

:55:45.:56:32.

You are talking about that kind of adulation.

:56:33.:56:40.

Looking at and seeing my friends, like, BLEEP.

:56:41.:56:42.

Their faces. It is exactly what I wanted.

:56:43.:56:46.

Win or lose, I will have done it again.

:56:47.:56:54.

Next time, I will train and not drink.

:56:55.:56:56.

He got to go home as the hard man and I go knowing more about why

:56:57.:57:05.

I dedicate this one to my goddaughter, Thea, yeah, man.

:57:06.:57:10.

You knocked a guy out for your goddaughter.

:57:11.:57:16.

For someone like Ricky, who spends their days in the office,

:57:17.:57:20.

it is a thrill that cannot be found anywhere else.

:57:21.:57:23.

A real challenge in our otherwise tranquil worlds.

:57:24.:57:25.

And it is a lot safer and more organised than many would assume.

:57:26.:57:28.

Whether Ricky will be giving up his day job to become

:57:29.:57:31.

a professional fighter has yet to be seen.

:57:32.:57:33.

But one thing that is certain is that MMA is only getting more

:57:34.:57:41.

popular, and, for most, it means a lot more than just

:57:42.:57:44.

punching another person in the face.

:57:45.:57:50.

Danny was watching that. He is in North Wales. Hi Danny. What about

:57:51.:57:58.

you? What's the attraction? Well, there is the good and healthy

:57:59.:58:01.

lifestyle it leads for me. That's the attraction for me generally. OK,

:58:02.:58:07.

I don't know if you heard Ricky. He liked hurting someone. That's

:58:08.:58:12.

ridiculous. I don't know. I don't agree with that statement one bit.

:58:13.:58:16.

You could have a fit and healthy lifestyle, you know, you could run,

:58:17.:58:19.

you could just work out in the gym. You don't have to go into a cage and

:58:20.:58:25.

get involved in mix the martial arts, do you? I have done that

:58:26.:58:29.

before and I still do it. It is part of the training routine the fight. I

:58:30.:58:35.

follow more and more training routines now with the mixed martial

:58:36.:58:41.

arts. Thanks for coming on the programme. Nice to talk to you.

:58:42.:58:46.

Thanks for your company today. Joanna is here tomorrow. Have a good

:58:47.:58:49.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS