09/05/2016 Victoria Derbyshire


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09/05/2016

The BBC's daily news and current affairs programme. Victoria speaks to Helen Wood, a former escort, about the effectiveness of injunctions.


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That's the claim the Prime Minister has made in a speech this morning.

:00:16.:00:19.

We'll bring you the details and reaction.

:00:20.:00:20.

a man who says he was groomed, sexually assaulted and raped

:00:21.:00:24.

by a family friend as a teenager tells us the impact it's had on him.

:00:25.:00:30.

There's been no justice here whatsoever.

:00:31.:00:33.

You don't get your day in court, you don't get to be vindicated.

:00:34.:00:37.

You open that floodgate to talk about this thing,

:00:38.:00:42.

which is horrendous anyway, and no-one really wants to believe

:00:43.:00:45.

And it has waived his right to anonymity to tell you a story.

:00:46.:00:57.

And - a former escort at the centre of a celebrity injunction tells us

:00:58.:01:01.

injunctions are a complete waste of time.

:01:02.:01:02.

Helen Wood from Bolton was paid around 200 quid for sex

:01:03.:01:05.

with a married actor who we can't name.

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I think it's really unfair. It is unverified and, even though my name

:01:10.:01:19.

is out there, he has paid for an injunction.

:01:20.:01:29.

Welcome to the programme, we're live until 11.

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If you're getting in touch, do use the hashtag Victoria LIVE

:01:33.:01:34.

and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

:01:35.:01:37.

A little later in the programme we'll bring you the latest video

:01:38.:01:40.

diary from our jubilant Leicester fans, we'll hear how some

:01:41.:01:44.

of the stars came out in force to defend the BBC at the BAFTAs last

:01:45.:01:47.

night and we'll hear from Johnny Depp, who's taking

:01:48.:01:52.

after that excruciating apology to Austrailia for bringing his dogs

:01:53.:01:56.

Peace in Europe could be at risk if Britain votes

:01:57.:02:04.

to leave the European Union, that's the message from

:02:05.:02:07.

David Cameron as he puts forward the case to remain in the EU.

:02:08.:02:10.

In a speech focused on national security, the Prime Minister has

:02:11.:02:12.

warned that the peace and stability, which Europe has enjoyed

:02:13.:02:15.

over the last few years, cannot be guaranteed in the event

:02:16.:02:18.

What happens in Europe affects us whether we like it or not.

:02:19.:02:31.

We must be strong in Europe if we want to be strong at home and in the

:02:32.:02:37.

world. Second, the dangerous international situation facing

:02:38.:02:49.

Britain means we need to stand united. Now is the time her strength

:02:50.:02:56.

in numbers. Third, keeping our people safe from modern terrorist

:02:57.:02:59.

networks and from serious crime that crosses waters means we to develop

:03:00.:03:07.

much closer means of security cooperation within Europe. It needs

:03:08.:03:13.

to be fully engaged with that. Fourth, far from Britain's influence

:03:14.:03:22.

in the world being undermined, the EU amplifies our power. It helps us

:03:23.:03:28.

achieve the things we want, whether fighting disease in Africa, tackling

:03:29.:03:31.

climate change, taking on people smugglers. That is not just our

:03:32.:03:37.

view. It is the view of our allies and friends.

:03:38.:03:39.

Our correspondent Iain Watson has been following that speech

:03:40.:03:41.

and joins me now from the British Museum.

:03:42.:03:43.

What would you take from this? The Prime Minister is about to leave

:03:44.:03:53.

after speaking foreigner here. You cannot accuse him of understating

:03:54.:03:57.

his case when it comes to calling for Britain to remain inside the

:03:58.:04:01.

European Union. His speech took in the broad sweep of history, I guess

:04:02.:04:05.

that is why he is at the British Museum. He said that our future and

:04:06.:04:13.

past is linked to Europe. He mentioned the Second World War and

:04:14.:04:17.

said, Churchill stood against tyranny on his own, he would have

:04:18.:04:21.

liked to have had European allies. The best way to stop nations being

:04:22.:04:27.

at each other's throats is to stay inside the European Union. The other

:04:28.:04:32.

side says this is desperate scare mongering. There is a group you will

:04:33.:04:36.

not have heard of but I got an e-mail from a group called

:04:37.:04:44.

Historians for Britain, and they are saying that the Prime Minister is

:04:45.:04:47.

being historically illiterate, that there are other institutions such as

:04:48.:04:53.

needle which have played a greater role. -- such as Nato. Boris Johnson

:04:54.:05:04.

will attack the Prime Minister for the deal he negotiated with

:05:05.:05:07.

Brussels. He says he will debunk some of the myths which the campaign

:05:08.:05:18.

have been propagating. Let us get reaction from our audience. This

:05:19.:05:24.

tweet from Ken, I did not believe David Cameron could go so low as to

:05:25.:05:28.

use the following heroes of World War II in this way. And another

:05:29.:05:36.

person says, this is scraping the barrel to pretend World War three

:05:37.:05:43.

will happen if we leave the EU. I think the Prime Minister's speech

:05:44.:05:50.

has been controversial. One of the most controversial passages has been

:05:51.:05:55.

this line about the tombstones being testament to what happens if you

:05:56.:05:58.

turn your back on Europe, that isolationism has got us nowhere.

:05:59.:06:06.

What he is trying to achieve our two things. Remain always thought people

:06:07.:06:12.

would think about the head and not the heart. But he does not want to

:06:13.:06:17.

see the emotional arguments to the other side. He wants to make the

:06:18.:06:25.

patriotically saw Europe, to say it is as patriotic to want to remain as

:06:26.:06:32.

to pull out but to do so he has used some very controversial imagery, a

:06:33.:06:37.

risk. Thank you. Joanna is in the BBC

:06:38.:06:40.

Newsroom with a summary Talks to end a long-running

:06:41.:06:43.

dispute over new contracts for junior doctors in England

:06:44.:06:47.

will get underway today. The government and the BMA will meet

:06:48.:06:49.

for the first time since February. The row has so far resulted

:06:50.:06:52.

in several days of strikes, Meanwhile, researchers

:06:53.:06:54.

at Oxford University say data indicating higher deaths rates among

:06:55.:06:59.

patients admitted to hospital Here's our Health Correspondent,

:07:00.:07:02.

Adam Brimelow. For the first time since February,

:07:03.:07:07.

representatives for junior doctors and the Government will meet to try

:07:08.:07:14.

to end a dispute that has already prompted many several days

:07:15.:07:17.

of strikes, delaying thousands of operations and

:07:18.:07:22.

hospital appointments. One of the Government's key

:07:23.:07:24.

arguments for a new contract has Data showing a weekend

:07:25.:07:28.

effect with death rates being higher for people admitted

:07:29.:07:36.

over the weekend period are There are 1,700 patients on this

:07:37.:07:40.

study recorded as having A third of these were

:07:41.:07:47.

recorded inaccurately. Many of them were in for routine,

:07:48.:07:51.

low-risk procedures carried out The effect of the error

:07:52.:07:56.

was to distort patient safety. Researchers say mistakes in

:07:57.:08:06.

recording what goes on in hospitals skewed mortality figures,

:08:07.:08:13.

making them appear better for patients admitted on weekdays

:08:14.:08:15.

than those on weekends. We found no evidence of this weekend

:08:16.:08:18.

effect in these high quality It really is an excellent example

:08:19.:08:23.

of how poor quality data badly interpreted can lead

:08:24.:08:28.

to the wrong answer. NHS England says the quality of the

:08:29.:08:33.

data has improved in recent years. It says none of this

:08:34.:08:40.

affects the wider issue, that patients should be seen

:08:41.:08:42.

promptly by a consultant and should have access to treatment

:08:43.:08:44.

any day of the week. A BBC News reporter,

:08:45.:08:54.

producer and cameraman have been expelled from North Korea,

:08:55.:08:56.

with one asked to sign a confession following an eight

:08:57.:08:59.

hour interrogation. Maria Byrne and Matthew Goddard -

:09:00.:09:01.

were due to leave Pyongyang at the end of last week

:09:02.:09:05.

but were detained as they were about They were taken to a hotel for

:09:06.:09:08.

questioning, with the North Korean regime unhappy about a series

:09:09.:09:13.

of television and online reports. All three have now been taken back

:09:14.:09:16.

to the airport to board More than 250 construction workers,

:09:17.:09:19.

who say they were prevented from working because of a so-called

:09:20.:09:24.

employers' blacklist, are to share more than 10 million

:09:25.:09:28.

pounds in compensation. The deal, involving workers

:09:29.:09:32.

from the Unite union, marks the end of a long-running

:09:33.:09:33.

legal case brought against leading The total bill for compensation

:09:34.:09:37.

and legal fees is thought to run A survey of ten and eleven year

:09:38.:09:41.

old children in England has suggested that nearly 90 percent

:09:42.:09:51.

of them feel under pressure to do Newsround programme,

:09:52.:09:54.

also found some children lose sleep Last week, thousands of parents

:09:55.:09:59.

withdrew their children from school, I cannot really get to sleep that

:10:00.:10:16.

much and not easily. I get that Rush and you feel like you've forgotten

:10:17.:10:23.

everything. I am feeling worried. You are worried about how you're

:10:24.:10:26.

going to do and you don't know if it's going to be a bad they are a

:10:27.:10:30.

good day. I am so ready for them to be over. I'm getting sick of doing

:10:31.:10:32.

these practice ones. A 49 year old man has told this

:10:33.:10:35.

programme, how he was groomed, sexually assaulted and raped

:10:36.:10:38.

at the age of 15 by a family friend who shot himself minutes

:10:39.:10:42.

after police warned him he was about to be arrested over his

:10:43.:10:43.

historical sex abuse claims. David, who's waived his right

:10:44.:10:46.

to anonymity, also claims he was abused by other men at flats

:10:47.:10:48.

in Dolphin Square, a block of flats in London which has been

:10:49.:10:52.

investigated by police over claims of a Westminster VIP

:10:53.:10:54.

paedophile ring. I ended up losing my career over it

:10:55.:11:07.

because I needed time off. I only had six weeks off. I shut down, did

:11:08.:11:15.

not eat for days, I lost three stone, I did not shower or shave for

:11:16.:11:18.

a fortnight, I did not want to leave the house. Luckily I had good

:11:19.:11:22.

friends who said you've got to get on with life, we are going here, we

:11:23.:11:29.

are going there, so I was lucky from that point of view, but it destroys

:11:30.:11:30.

you. A fifth of the oil town

:11:31.:11:32.

of Fort McMurray has been destroyed by the wildfire that has

:11:33.:11:35.

raged in central Canada It's expected to be the most

:11:36.:11:37.

costly natural disaster But officials say the fire may have

:11:38.:11:40.

reached a turning point, with cooler The BBC picked up more

:11:41.:11:44.

than half of the awards Some winners used their acceptance

:11:45.:11:49.

speeches to defend the corporation, ahead of this week's government

:11:50.:11:54.

White Paper on its future. Wolf Hall won Best British

:11:55.:11:57.

Drama and Best Actor. Its director, Peter Kosminsky,

:11:58.:12:03.

took the opportunity to warn the government against interfering

:12:04.:12:05.

with public service broadcasting. Our Entertainment Correspondent,

:12:06.:12:07.

Lizo Mzimba, has more. Some of the biggest stars

:12:08.:12:11.

of the small screen on the red From Bake Off to

:12:12.:12:14.

Britain's Got Talent, tonight is all about celebrating

:12:15.:12:21.

the very best of British television. With its future soon to come under

:12:22.:12:27.

parliamentary scrutiny, It took over half

:12:28.:12:30.

the evening's awards. The director got a standing

:12:31.:12:35.

ovation for talking about a In many ways, our broadcasting,

:12:36.:12:42.

BBC and Channel 4, which they are attempting to eviscerate,

:12:43.:12:55.

is the envy of the world. We should stand for it,

:12:56.:12:57.

not let it go by default. If we don't, blink,

:12:58.:13:00.

and it will be gone. John Whittingdale has said

:13:01.:13:03.

he is a BBC supporter but he has expressed concern

:13:04.:13:11.

about its scale and scope. The BBC was dominant

:13:12.:13:17.

in terms of awards tonight. The Great British Bake Off,

:13:18.:13:20.

Strictly Come Dancing The BBC will be hoping that

:13:21.:13:22.

the evening's significant haul will be a reminder to the public

:13:23.:13:30.

and politicians about That's a summary of the latest BBC

:13:31.:13:34.

News - more at 9.30. The next few minutes

:13:35.:13:48.

we'll bring you that full interview with Helen Wood -

:13:49.:13:50.

the former escort at the centre of Do get in touch with us

:13:51.:13:53.

throughout the morning. Use the hashtag Victoria Live

:13:54.:13:56.

and If you text, you will be charged Jessica has all the sport now

:13:57.:13:59.

and it could be a nervous final week of the season

:14:00.:14:03.

for Manchester City fans. It definitely could be. It is close

:14:04.:14:13.

at the top and everybody is trying to qualify for the Champions League.

:14:14.:14:17.

Manchester City have not done themselves the best of favours.

:14:18.:14:22.

Manuel Pellegrini did not get the farewell he would have wanted with

:14:23.:14:27.

their final home game of the season, which saw them drop with Arsenal.

:14:28.:14:31.

Getting into the Champions League is now out of their hands. Twice they

:14:32.:14:36.

lost their lead. It was Alexis Sanchez for Arsenal that brought

:14:37.:14:41.

them back to 2-2. Annie Welbeck injured his knee, which could be a

:14:42.:14:45.

blow to England. With Manchester City dropping points it could mean

:14:46.:14:49.

they are pushed out of the qualifying points by Manchester

:14:50.:14:52.

United, who travelled to West Ham tomorrow night. It is out of our

:14:53.:15:08.

hands. On Tuesday we will know what happens, but we will try to win our

:15:09.:15:10.

last game at Swansea. Tottenham's disappointing week

:15:11.:15:15.

didn't get any better. They lost 2-1 to Southampton

:15:16.:15:16.

in their final home But they can still secure second

:15:17.:15:19.

place in the table, if they get a point against Newcastle on Sunday,

:15:20.:15:26.

which would be their best ever Liverpool are back winning ways in

:15:27.:15:28.

the league. They beat

:15:29.:15:38.

Watford two-nil at Anfield. Joe Allen and Roberto Firminho

:15:39.:15:40.

scored the goals and that keeps them eighth in the table,

:15:41.:15:43.

a point behind West Ham. Ronny Deila will leave Celtic having

:15:44.:15:45.

guided the club to back-to-back It was their fifth in a row

:15:46.:15:47.

after a 3-2 win over nearest rivals They were already nine

:15:48.:15:55.

points clear of the visitors 19-year-old Patrick Roberts,

:15:56.:15:59.

on loan from Manchester City scored Andy Murray has slipped to third

:16:00.:16:04.

in the World rankings after losing the final of the Madrid Masters

:16:05.:16:10.

to Novak Djokovic in three sets. It was a slow start from Murray

:16:11.:16:13.

as he lost the first set 6-2. He dusted himself off though

:16:14.:16:17.

and came back brilliantly In the third and final set,

:16:18.:16:19.

Murray couldn't make the most of his break points

:16:20.:16:23.

and Djokovic served out For Murray, he's lost ranking points

:16:24.:16:25.

because of this and Roger Federer leap frogs him into

:16:26.:16:35.

number two in the world. How costly could that

:16:36.:16:38.

prove with the draw for the next major, the French Open,

:16:39.:16:40.

later this month? I hope I can stay there for a

:16:41.:16:53.

longer. Some players are playing into their late 30s now. I don't

:16:54.:16:58.

know if I'll be able to do that, but there is hopefully a few more good

:16:59.:16:59.

years left. It was a successful weekend

:17:00.:17:02.

for Britain's rowers, as they topped the medal table at

:17:03.:17:06.

the European Championships. Helen Glover and Heather Stanning

:17:07.:17:10.

were stand out performers, retaining their title in the Pair,

:17:11.:17:12.

despite the strong winds Things looking very good for them

:17:13.:17:14.

with the Rio Olympics They still haven't

:17:15.:17:17.

lost an international What a record that is. I will have

:17:18.:17:30.

more at 10.30am. Thank you very much, see you later.

:17:31.:17:34.

Most of you commenting on the speech David Cameron gave earlier this

:17:35.:17:40.

morning. He spent 50 minutes speaking at the British Museum

:17:41.:17:43.

warning if you vote to leave the European Union, it could lead to war

:17:44.:17:49.

the peace and prosperity which he says has come from being members of

:17:50.:17:53.

the European Union. This tweet from Leafy, "David Cameron is clearly a

:17:54.:17:58.

very worried Prime Minister." David says, "What next? The end of the

:17:59.:18:03.

world as we know it?" This e-mail from Trevor said, "It is interesting

:18:04.:18:10.

that David Cameron brought up in his speech some of the greatest events

:18:11.:18:19.

in history." Derek says, "Quite categorically Mr Cameron is

:18:20.:18:21.

scaremongering. If we leave, it will be more of a danger to world peace

:18:22.:18:26.

if we're in or out, we're not the might we used to be." John says,

:18:27.:18:35.

"Cameron's scare tactics become more and more by each day." We will talk

:18:36.:18:43.

more about Mr Cameron's speech later. Your comments welcome.

:18:44.:18:49.

Use the hashtag Victoria live or you can send me an e-mail.

:18:50.:18:53.

Injunctions are pointless and do more harm than good.

:18:54.:18:57.

That's view of one woman who is at the centre of a gagging order

:18:58.:19:00.

preventing the identity of a married actor being exposed.

:19:01.:19:03.

Helen Wood is a former escort who first came to the public's

:19:04.:19:05.

attention in September 2010 when she was named as one of two

:19:06.:19:08.

escorts who'd allegedly slept with Wayne Rooney.

:19:09.:19:10.

The following year, in 2011, a married actor took out

:19:11.:19:13.

an injunction barring publication of details of an encounter

:19:14.:19:15.

The star apparently paid her around ?200 for sex.

:19:16.:19:20.

Five years on that injunction has been back in the headlines this week

:19:21.:19:23.

after the actor was named in publications in America and Dublin.

:19:24.:19:26.

We can't name those publications because to do so would

:19:27.:19:29.

We also, obviously, can't name him or reveal anything that could lead

:19:30.:19:36.

Helen Wood says she feels sorry for the actor.

:19:37.:19:43.

I actually think it is really unfair. On him? I think it is unfair

:19:44.:19:50.

on him. Even though my name is obviously out there, he has paid

:19:51.:19:57.

for, he has paid for an injunction and it has turned out to be a waste

:19:58.:20:01.

of money and brought even more attention to him than what would

:20:02.:20:03.

have happened in the first place. Yeah, I do think it is unfair. Why

:20:04.:20:10.

do you think the whole issue has resurfaced again now? Well, I think

:20:11.:20:14.

because there has been numerous things going on in the press

:20:15.:20:19.

recently to do with injunctions. Injunctions are a massive threat

:20:20.:20:23.

towards media, towards newspapers and things. So they're going to kick

:20:24.:20:27.

up a fuss about it and with it coming out in America and Scotland

:20:28.:20:31.

and things like that, that's what has brought it all back round again.

:20:32.:20:36.

Do you feel sorry for this actor and for his wife and for his children?

:20:37.:20:42.

Yeah, I do. If you had asked me that a few years ago, my response would

:20:43.:20:45.

have been quite different. Yeah, of course, I do. He made a mistake. And

:20:46.:20:51.

I'm pretty sure if he could turn the clocks back, just like if I could

:20:52.:20:55.

turn the clocks back I would do, but unfortunately we are still like six

:20:56.:20:59.

or seven years on talking about it. If they are aware of it, I do feel

:21:00.:21:03.

sorry for them because I just think it is all really unnecessary. Are

:21:04.:21:12.

you sorry then for what happened? I won't apologise for what I used to

:21:13.:21:15.

do. I have no regrets for what I used to do. I regret saying certain

:21:16.:21:20.

things because obviously it is me that, although he has done wrong,

:21:21.:21:26.

I've kind of landed him in it by saying certain things to the wrong

:21:27.:21:31.

people at wrong time. But it was the actor himself who sought out your

:21:32.:21:34.

services when you worked as an escort? Yeah. I get that and people

:21:35.:21:40.

say why is she defending him? It is not that I'm defending him. It is

:21:41.:21:44.

just now I'm older and wiser and I think he made a mistake. Is he meant

:21:45.:21:49.

to, is he meant to be punished now for the rest of his life and be

:21:50.:21:54.

looking over his shoulder and think is this coming out? I know how that

:21:55.:21:59.

feels for the past to get keeping get dragged up all the time. He

:22:00.:22:03.

might have been forgiven and his wife and him might have moved on and

:22:04.:22:07.

they have to be looking at this. The main factor for me is now that I

:22:08.:22:12.

have a child, that's a lot older and I know he has children... The actor

:22:13.:22:17.

has children? Yeah. I think that's what is upsetting more than

:22:18.:22:20.

anything. That's what got to me more than anything when I learned this

:22:21.:22:24.

was going to come out again. That was what was hard to kind of, you

:22:25.:22:29.

know, I felt sorry for the children involved in it obviously. You sail

:22:30.:22:33.

he will be constantly looking over his shoulder but that's because he

:22:34.:22:37.

slept with an escort and then took out an injunction. I wonder if he

:22:38.:22:40.

hadn't taken out an injunction, it would have come out five years ago

:22:41.:22:46.

and would have been over? It probably wouldn't have come out five

:22:47.:22:49.

years. What people don't understand how it came out. I was in the public

:22:50.:22:56.

eye for sometime before this came out. There was only one person

:22:57.:23:02.

laughing at the end of this. Whose firm, the actor's legal firm? Yeah,

:23:03.:23:06.

she was surprised, the barrister when I spoke to her and I said I had

:23:07.:23:12.

no intention of selling a story on him and she was, "That's not what we

:23:13.:23:18.

have heard." You had done an interview about sleeping with Wayne

:23:19.:23:21.

Rooney, that's why they thought you might have sold a story... Why did I

:23:22.:23:29.

not do it at the time. Your view is he should never have taken an

:23:30.:23:32.

injunction? He should never have bothered. It just caused more

:23:33.:23:35.

problems than good for him anyway. Have you had contact with him? No. I

:23:36.:23:41.

spoke to his barrister back when he took the injunction out and that's

:23:42.:23:51.

it. I mentioned Wayne Rooney, you are described in various

:23:52.:23:55.

publications still as the Wayne Rooney prostitute. What impact has

:23:56.:24:00.

it had on you, and your son, who is now 12 and your wider family, the

:24:01.:24:04.

fact that you're constantly associated with Wayne Rooney? To be

:24:05.:24:11.

honest, when it first came out, it had massive implications and I was

:24:12.:24:15.

not media savvy whatsoever back then so it was just, I was so paranoid

:24:16.:24:20.

all the time. Whereas now, it is like, if you don't know me and

:24:21.:24:23.

that's just how you want to perceive me and that's how you want to look

:24:24.:24:27.

at me, that's your issue, not mine and I've done various other things

:24:28.:24:32.

since then. I'm not really, well I will always be seen as that and I

:24:33.:24:35.

accept that and if I choose to continue to work in the public eye,

:24:36.:24:39.

that's my fault if people still look at me and say I can't, I've got to

:24:40.:24:43.

take the rough with the smooth. With regards to my family, I don't have

:24:44.:24:48.

really any family anyway. So that doesn't really matter... Well, you

:24:49.:24:53.

have got parents? I do. One of which I'm not really, I don't even want to

:24:54.:24:57.

discuss that. I don't want to discuss family and things like that,

:24:58.:25:02.

but it is just my son. As long as my son is all right and you know, I'm

:25:03.:25:06.

pretty sure things will get said to him. Things have been said to him in

:25:07.:25:10.

the past... You mean at school? Yeah. But he is a very strong willed

:25:11.:25:17.

child. He is not as feisty with his tongue like me, but he is very, very

:25:18.:25:22.

quick at nipping something in the bud, but doing it in a good way and

:25:23.:25:27.

hope any that's what I taught him to do. You told him that this was going

:25:28.:25:33.

to resurface? Resurface. What did you tell him? I didn't say resurface

:25:34.:25:41.

because he didn't know years ago. I said I did something that will make

:25:42.:25:45.

people say nasty things to him and people will say things to him at

:25:46.:25:49.

school and I thought he was going to get upset and teary eyed and he was

:25:50.:25:56.

like, "I'm not bothered. If anyone says something, I will say it is my

:25:57.:26:01.

mum, not me." He asked questions about certain things, I've not gone

:26:02.:26:04.

into detail because he is 12 years old. I'm not going through the ins

:26:05.:26:09.

and outs of things. I said I have done things that I should not have

:26:10.:26:13.

done when I was younger and because of that kids might be nasty to you

:26:14.:26:18.

at school and that's it. What kind of things have been said to him in

:26:19.:26:22.

the past at school? Well, actually the only thing that was said to him

:26:23.:26:26.

was complete and utter rubbish. People thinking they know what they

:26:27.:26:29.

are talking about. Someone said something to him about a footballer

:26:30.:26:35.

who I've never even met in my life and he came and told me what the

:26:36.:26:39.

child said to him in the playground and I said, I nipped it in the bud

:26:40.:26:44.

straightaway. He did. He is quite good like that. He is not as feisty

:26:45.:26:51.

as his mum thank god. Do you know of other famous people who have taken

:26:52.:26:54.

out injunctions having slept with other women who aren't their wives

:26:55.:26:59.

or partners? Yeah. Lots? Not with me. You know the women they have

:27:00.:27:03.

slept with potentially? Yeah. What kind of professions? The ones that I

:27:04.:27:11.

know of in music and in the sports world, yeah. Right. What do you

:27:12.:27:15.

think of that? Do you know, it is strange because people are like why

:27:16.:27:19.

has she got this opinion because her name is everywhere? I think, I've

:27:20.:27:27.

got mixed views on it. If it all boils down to with me, if you're

:27:28.:27:31.

going to cheat, fine, but you're probably going to get caught. If

:27:32.:27:35.

someone sold a story on you, you will get an injunction and it will

:27:36.:27:38.

come out a waste of time, you have got to take the riskment I do

:27:39.:27:42.

understand why they do it. Lots of people cheat, but if they have the

:27:43.:27:46.

money to get an injunction and protect themselves, you are going to

:27:47.:27:50.

try and do that. So I do understand why they try and take them out and

:27:51.:27:53.

why they do take them out, but don't, you know, you can't really

:27:54.:27:57.

cry about it when it does come out because it boils down you still did

:27:58.:28:01.

wrong at one point. There is another injunction story around involving a

:28:02.:28:11.

celebrity couple. Those people who are granted anonymity in order to

:28:12.:28:18.

protect their infidelity if you like, what do you think? What do I

:28:19.:28:24.

think of them being protected? Yes. I think it is wrong, I must admit

:28:25.:28:30.

after the week of hell that I've had with, you know, the press and

:28:31.:28:35.

certain newspapers just really, really, you know, going for me, like

:28:36.:28:40.

being nasty, I do sit there and read some of the headlines and I read a

:28:41.:28:43.

particular article the other day and I was like, "How can you write this

:28:44.:28:48.

when it is not just me that's in the wrong? I don't understand." People

:28:49.:28:56.

say I was not in the wrong because I was in a job. I did do things wrong,

:28:57.:29:02.

I spoke and I shouldn't have repeated certain things, but I don't

:29:03.:29:06.

know. I think after this week of reading the things that I've read

:29:07.:29:09.

about myself, I think it is unfair that it is always the woman, not

:29:10.:29:13.

just me, I'm not just speaking for me, why is it always the woman

:29:14.:29:16.

that's branded in the wrong all the time because it always is whereas

:29:17.:29:21.

the man's like gets a high five for doing wrong. It doesn't make any

:29:22.:29:26.

sense. Are injudgeses pointless? Injunctions are pointless because

:29:27.:29:29.

look at the damage it has caused unless it is going to be a decision

:29:30.:29:34.

that's made all over the world where you cannot be found anywhere, I just

:29:35.:29:38.

don't see the point in it. I think it makes our country look pretty

:29:39.:29:43.

stupid to be honest. Do you want, I mean this actor, this you slept with

:29:44.:29:47.

back then has been named in America, on the internet, do you want his

:29:48.:29:51.

name to be published in the mainstream media in this country?

:29:52.:29:55.

No. I think put it to bed. Leave him aLondon. Let him get on with his

:29:56.:30:00.

life and that's itks be done with it and let me get on with mine.

:30:01.:30:03.

Helen Wood. 17-year-old Charles didn't know he

:30:04.:30:21.

had anorexia until he collapsed. He returned to speak to classmates for

:30:22.:30:25.

the first time since his eating disorder. And... I would really like

:30:26.:30:33.

to apologise for not smuggling my dogs...

:30:34.:30:37.

And Johnny Depp makes light of a video apology he made

:30:38.:30:50.

after his dogs were illegally smuggled into Australia.

:30:51.:30:56.

Pearson Europe could be at risk if Britain votes to leave the EU. That

:30:57.:31:03.

is the case David Cameron put forward. He warned the stability

:31:04.:31:08.

Europe has enjoyed cannot be guaranteed in the event of Aleve

:31:09.:31:16.

fold. Talks to end a long-running dispute over contracts over junior

:31:17.:31:23.

doctors will get underway. The row has so far resulted in several days

:31:24.:31:26.

of strikes and thousands of delayed operations. Former escort Helen

:31:27.:31:32.

Wood, at the centre of a gagging order preventing the identity of a

:31:33.:31:37.

married actor being exposed has pulled this programme she believes

:31:38.:31:40.

injunctions are a complete waste of time and do more harm than good. The

:31:41.:31:47.

actor has been named in America and Ireland. Injunctions are pointless

:31:48.:31:50.

because look at the damage it caused. Unless it's going to be a

:31:51.:31:55.

decision made all over the world where you cannot be found anywhere,

:31:56.:32:02.

I don't see the point in it. I think it makes our country pretty stupid.

:32:03.:32:07.

A BBC News reporter, producer and cameraman have been

:32:08.:32:09.

expelled from North Korea, with one asked to sign

:32:10.:32:11.

a confession following an eight hour interrogation.

:32:12.:32:13.

Maria Byrne and Matthew Goddard - were due to leave Pyongyang

:32:14.:32:17.

at the end of last week but were detained as they were about

:32:18.:32:20.

They were taken to a hotel for questioning, with the North Korean

:32:21.:32:24.

regime unhappy about a series of television and online reports.

:32:25.:32:26.

All three have now been taken back to the airport to board

:32:27.:32:29.

More than 250 construction workers, who say they were prevented

:32:30.:32:33.

from working because of a so-called employers' blacklist,

:32:34.:32:35.

are to share more than 10 million pounds in compensation.

:32:36.:32:37.

The deal, involving workers from the Unite union,

:32:38.:32:40.

marks the end of a long-running legal case brought against leading

:32:41.:32:43.

The total bill for compensation and legal fees is thought to run

:32:44.:32:47.

That is the latest BBC News. Here is the sports headlines. Qualifying for

:32:48.:33:07.

the Champions League is out of Manchester City's hands. They

:33:08.:33:11.

dropped points against Arsenal which means their neighbours could push

:33:12.:33:14.

them out of the qualifying places. Ronny Deila will leave Celtic after

:33:15.:33:30.

guiding them to back-to-back titles. It was their fifth in a row. Patrick

:33:31.:33:36.

Roberts scored twice to stop Andy Murray has dropped to third in the

:33:37.:33:39.

world rankings after losing the final of the Madrid Masters to Novak

:33:40.:33:52.

Djokovic. Successful weekend for Britain's Rovers after they topped

:33:53.:33:58.

the medal table. Heather Glover and Heather standing were standout

:33:59.:33:59.

performer is. Remember that research on more

:34:00.:34:07.

people dying after being treated in hospitals at the weekend that

:34:08.:34:09.

England's Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt cited when announcing his plans

:34:10.:34:13.

for a seven day a week NHS? Well it's wrong, according

:34:14.:34:16.

to research released today by Oxford University,

:34:17.:34:18.

based on flawed data they say. Today is also the day

:34:19.:34:24.

that the doctors' union, the British Medical Association,

:34:25.:34:26.

will restart talks with the government today,

:34:27.:34:28.

in an attempt to end the long-running row with Junior

:34:29.:34:30.

doctors over their new contract. What is the strike really about?

:34:31.:34:48.

Junior doctors are unhappy with the contract, which will start to be

:34:49.:34:54.

ruled out across England. Who will it affect? These are not medical

:34:55.:35:10.

students. Can mean someone with ten years of experience. The government

:35:11.:35:22.

wants to raise basic wages by 13%. Doctors have two complaints. The

:35:23.:35:27.

first is unsociable hours. At the moment doctors get paid more if they

:35:28.:35:33.

are on at weekends. Ministers want to cut back back. We are here to

:35:34.:35:44.

promote patient safety. Tired doctors -- will not help. We feel

:35:45.:35:56.

staffing problems will be worse. We'll doctors lose out? To start

:35:57.:36:04.

with, probably not. But this is not about winners and losers on day one.

:36:05.:36:08.

In time, doctors are worried they will be forced to work for less

:36:09.:36:17.

money. Guaranteed pay rises are also being scrapped which could mean they

:36:18.:36:22.

earn less in the long run. Studies have suggested that patients are

:36:23.:36:26.

admitted at the weekends are more likely to die. The government says

:36:27.:36:37.

this contract will let it bring in a safer NHS seven days a week. We will

:36:38.:36:51.

change the pay structures. Doctors say the changes will strip back the

:36:52.:36:55.

safeguards meant to stop people working excessive hours, making life

:36:56.:36:59.

more risky for patients. Talks so far have come to nothing. The

:37:00.:37:03.

government has said it will go ahead with the contract. Without a

:37:04.:37:10.

breakthrough, more industrial action looks very likely.

:37:11.:37:12.

Let's talk to Ashlynn Macklin-Doherty is a striking junior

:37:13.:37:14.

doctor and cancer specialist trainee.

:37:15.:37:15.

Dr Adam Dalby is a junior doctor who no longer supports strikes

:37:16.:37:18.

and is willing to work under the new contract and Sir Peter

:37:19.:37:21.

Bottomley is a Conservative MP for Worthing West.

:37:22.:37:23.

He says this is a better contract than what exists now.

:37:24.:37:30.

Welcome all of you. Can we start with the research, shown to have

:37:31.:37:40.

been flawed, and we now know there is no mortality effect that the

:37:41.:37:44.

weekend. Of course there isn't. 88% of the profession have not been out

:37:45.:37:52.

on the streets in this highly distressing situation we've been

:37:53.:37:59.

forced into, basically because the government is trying to spin a story

:38:00.:38:04.

to fit in with a manifesto that they have which is not backed up by any

:38:05.:38:10.

truth or fact. It has angered the profession cause we are seeing these

:38:11.:38:18.

lies. The using -- it is actually the fact that the data was

:38:19.:38:23.

incorrectly collated. I wonder if you think, if there is no weekend

:38:24.:38:30.

effect, what that does for the argument? On the basis of one paper

:38:31.:38:38.

you cannot make a decision but obviously it presents a lesson to

:38:39.:38:44.

politicians about using data and having that properly checked and

:38:45.:38:49.

peer-reviewed and not, I believe he had the paper before it was

:38:50.:38:52.

published officially in one of the journals. That is a fear enough

:38:53.:39:00.

point. It is. This is the time to be conciliar tree. The coding was

:39:01.:39:06.

incorrect. We have not proved there is no weekend effect. That is what

:39:07.:39:11.

the research is safe. They can say what they want. I am saying what I

:39:12.:39:16.

think. I spend a lot of time working for doctors who have been mistreated

:39:17.:39:21.

by their employers, often because of weekends rostering. I know from

:39:22.:39:26.

cases in employment tribunal is the good doctors have been sat on by

:39:27.:39:30.

their employers, that you need to have a better contract and be

:39:31.:39:34.

careful about making sweeping generalisations. If we had the

:39:35.:39:40.

proposed contract, and anybody wanted to change it to the old one,

:39:41.:39:43.

everybody would be up in arms because the old one has long hours,

:39:44.:39:54.

unfortunate bias as to the way we roster people. We can do better. 90%

:39:55.:39:58.

of things have been agreed and it ought to be possible to reach

:39:59.:40:02.

agreement on the last bit. Let's talk about facts. I've been working

:40:03.:40:07.

in the NHS for eight years, I suspect longer than both of you

:40:08.:40:14.

combined. I've watched the NHS slowly crumble around me. We've had

:40:15.:40:19.

hospital closures at record rates, we have the lowest number of doctors

:40:20.:40:24.

per people in the population compared to the rest of Europe. How

:40:25.:40:30.

is this relevant to the contract? This is about, in the middle of an

:40:31.:40:34.

unprecedented crisis, you've got a government pushing forward a policy

:40:35.:40:39.

which has no evidence, quite clearly, stretching a five-day

:40:40.:40:42.

service over seven days with not a single pound of extra funding. It is

:40:43.:40:45.

entirely relevant to look at the wider context. Which part of the

:40:46.:40:51.

contract is the problem? There are so many full stop it has been

:40:52.:40:55.

referred to the United Nations because of the discrimination

:40:56.:40:59.

element. Which part of the contract is the problem? There are five main

:41:00.:41:07.

disagreements with the BMA. There are unsocial hours. Those are fixed.

:41:08.:41:15.

They are not. This is the problem. Unsociable hours, stretching the

:41:16.:41:23.

workforce. They are not fixed because you would not have them up

:41:24.:41:30.

in arms. Which part is the problem? Let's look at the context. You've

:41:31.:41:38.

mentioned unsocial hours. The other point in the contract you unhappy

:41:39.:41:43.

with? The fact that there will be discrimination against less than

:41:44.:41:45.

full-time trainees, particularly women. It doesn't centre visors

:41:46.:41:56.

people going out into academia, people working in oncology,

:41:57.:42:01.

psychiatrist who do not and will causes. I must admit, there are

:42:02.:42:11.

researchers who get higher pay. My problem with this argument is it has

:42:12.:42:18.

become about more than pay and conditions, which is why the BMA

:42:19.:42:21.

strike, I don't believe it is legal to strike over a government policy,

:42:22.:42:28.

I don't believe it is ethical of doctors to go out on strike putting

:42:29.:42:33.

patients at inconvenience, increasing pain over what is a

:42:34.:42:40.

political dispute. Can I ask you, as a striking doctor, if the government

:42:41.:42:51.

this week says, in terms of paying for the unsociable hours, if we

:42:52.:42:59.

bring the hours forward, if we get the higher rates of pay... It is not

:43:00.:43:06.

about pay. It has never been about pay. Will that help? What we want is

:43:07.:43:12.

a fully costed model. The government need to show us what has been

:43:13.:43:19.

planned properly. We are the ones on the front line having our operations

:43:20.:43:24.

cancelled. Everyone watching this show will know what I mean. They

:43:25.:43:29.

don't need me to tell them that the NHS is in a funding crisis. If you

:43:30.:43:35.

stretch us even thinner with not a pound of extra funding, we are the

:43:36.:43:38.

ones that will be picking up the pieces. The contract thing, the

:43:39.:43:42.

thing that junior doctors would not talk about was the Saturday rates of

:43:43.:43:48.

pay. Today that -- to say that it has nothing to do with that is not

:43:49.:43:51.

quite right. The impression is it is about that. The fact that the health

:43:52.:43:57.

service needs constant attention and more money, we agree on. What we can

:43:58.:44:05.

say is for the junior doctors contract to be left the way it is in

:44:06.:44:11.

2008, the last three years with the BMA coming in and going out, it is

:44:12.:44:16.

right to see if we got virtual agreement, O total agreement and

:44:17.:44:20.

cooperate to make the NHS better. Do you think Jeremy Hunt is in the mood

:44:21.:44:27.

to be making concessions? He has. He says the employers have made it a 4%

:44:28.:44:31.

concessions. They need to reach agreement in a way that is good for

:44:32.:44:36.

doctors and patients. MPs are responsible for doctors and

:44:37.:44:45.

patients. The health Minister running the service and being

:44:46.:44:50.

responsible for it, my wife is more important than I am. Jeremy Hunt's

:44:51.:44:58.

cousin? That is a myth but I have known him since 1984. He is

:44:59.:45:02.

committed, you are committed, we are all committed. Thank you very much.

:45:03.:45:05.

We will see what happens. A 49-year-old man

:45:06.:45:08.

who says he was groomed and raped by a family friend

:45:09.:45:11.

when he was a teenager waives his right to anonymity

:45:12.:45:14.

to tell you his story. One of the UK's leading treatment

:45:15.:45:19.

centres for eating disorders at the Royal Free Hospital in London

:45:20.:45:25.

is warning men are being put at risk because too often people think

:45:26.:45:28.

conditions like anorexia and bulimia The Royal Colleges of GPs

:45:29.:45:31.

and Nursing say sometimes the results can be

:45:32.:45:34.

devastating, even fatal. It's estimated up to a quarter

:45:35.:45:35.

of people experiencing eating Radio 1's Newsbeat has been

:45:36.:45:38.

following one 17-year-old called Charles Wooldridge who didn't know

:45:39.:45:43.

he had anorexia until he collapsed from near starvation

:45:44.:45:49.

on Boxing Day in 2014. He has recently returned

:45:50.:45:51.

to his school to talk honestly, for the first time,

:45:52.:45:54.

with his classmates This is Charles. He is 17 and he has

:45:55.:46:06.

what many people call a girl's illness. I thought that every bit of

:46:07.:46:12.

food I ate would put on weight. I just didn't feel comfortable as

:46:13.:46:17.

myself. He has been anorexic for at least two years, but finally feels

:46:18.:46:21.

ready to talk about his secret. He is going back to his school, to his

:46:22.:46:25.

friends, to have the conversation he never thought he would. I don't know

:46:26.:46:35.

how they're going to react. And for the first time cameras have been

:46:36.:46:38.

allowed into the unit where Charles has been treated. So this is the

:46:39.:46:41.

ward. I'm going to take you down the scary

:46:42.:47:01.

corridor. This is the kitchen. My first meal on the ward I didn't

:47:02.:47:06.

really know what to expect and you could just see that everyone was

:47:07.:47:11.

stressed out. This is one of the bays. That's where the patients

:47:12.:47:17.

sleep. But I wasn't allowed in here because I'm not a girl. So I had to

:47:18.:47:22.

be separated and sleep in the other bay. It was quite lonely, but we

:47:23.:47:30.

used to kind of come together in the evening anyway and play games.

:47:31.:47:37.

Being the only guy amongst so many girls can have its up sides. Charles

:47:38.:47:41.

met his girlfriend Lucy here. She also has an eating disorder.

:47:42.:47:48.

Basically we have vandalised this room. It is like somewhere under

:47:49.:47:54.

here. Yes, that's not the day we died, it's the time that we was

:47:55.:48:02.

here! The biggest thing with Charles was

:48:03.:48:07.

that he was always the class clown, happy go lucky, fun loving... I

:48:08.:48:14.

think he was generally seen as the person people met. He was a mag nat

:48:15.:48:19.

too. It started off with healthy eating. I wasn't aware of his weight

:48:20.:48:25.

loss until I caught a glimpse of him getting into the bath one day and he

:48:26.:48:33.

just looked so thin. Almost like a famine child. Charles says he didn't

:48:34.:48:37.

actually know he had an eating disorder. Neither did his parents or

:48:38.:48:42.

his older brother, but had been working out loads, starving himself

:48:43.:48:45.

for weeks and hiding food in his room. There was a lot of secrecy,

:48:46.:48:49.

but on Boxing Day 2014, he collapsed and was rushed to hospital. And it

:48:50.:48:58.

was horrible. It was just really horrible coming home and his bedroom

:48:59.:49:05.

was empty and it was, I was just distraught because his bedroom was

:49:06.:49:08.

empty, he was in hospital for the first time in his life. He wasn't in

:49:09.:49:13.

that room. You know, you look back and you think well, is it something

:49:14.:49:18.

I've done or, you know, can I blame myself? I'm not sure that I am

:49:19.:49:24.

getting a better understanding. You just sometimes can't reason with it.

:49:25.:49:29.

It just seems so irrational. It is almost like a grieving because I

:49:30.:49:34.

don't, I still think of him as that child and I don't recognise a lot of

:49:35.:49:39.

what he has been going through as him. So yeah, I kind of grieve the

:49:40.:49:50.

child that he was. As Charles' anorexia developed he pulled away

:49:51.:49:54.

from friends. He hasn't seen his classmates in almost two years and

:49:55.:49:57.

in a few weeks time he is hoping to have an honest discussion with them

:49:58.:50:01.

about his eating problems. It is something that just a few months ago

:50:02.:50:06.

he would never have imagined doing. The box is to represent how you're

:50:07.:50:11.

feeling. Charles has no idea how they will react especially the guys

:50:12.:50:15.

in his class after all, since he began his treatment, he has mostly

:50:16.:50:20.

been surrounded by girls. So ignore this bit, but this is the outside

:50:21.:50:25.

and in the inside I'm going to do some stuff. Before that, he has got

:50:26.:50:30.

to prepare to resit his GCSEs. There is a school at the hospital. It is

:50:31.:50:35.

only one room so we're in for like the whole day of the it is very

:50:36.:50:39.

different to my old school. Charles is back living at home, but he is

:50:40.:50:42.

here most days and in between classes, he has counselling

:50:43.:50:46.

sessions. Many of them with Sam. The boy that is I've treated have always

:50:47.:50:51.

usually been terribly unwell when they first kind of present. They

:50:52.:50:58.

maybe eating kind of quite well, but they're exercising like crazy. Sam

:50:59.:51:05.

will be weighing Charles in a few days and he dreads it. Everyone here

:51:06.:51:10.

has good days and bad days and it is easy to get overwhelmed. Is there

:51:11.:51:18.

any patients patient over the years who has really stuck with you?

:51:19.:51:28.

Sorry... I've got a lot of patients that

:51:29.:51:32.

stick in my mind. And you learn a lot from them.

:51:33.:51:40.

Sorry... Charles and Lucy have been together

:51:41.:51:44.

for nearly a yearment their favourite place to go to do is

:51:45.:51:49.

Camden Food Market and although they say they don't go near most of the

:51:50.:51:54.

food, they spend a lot of time obsessing over what they will or

:51:55.:52:01.

won't eat. Our Instagram account are based on

:52:02.:52:08.

recovery. I'm fine with other people because

:52:09.:52:18.

they might be scared to have it. If Pasta Prince can have it, so can I.

:52:19.:52:23.

It is Charles' weekly weigh-in, and he hates it. He has a target weight,

:52:24.:52:27.

but the thought of reaching that weight scares him. I make sure I

:52:28.:52:32.

don't drink anything or eat much before I get weighed. Shall we go

:52:33.:52:39.

and do the honours? Knowing that I have a goal makes me

:52:40.:52:46.

feel like I have to go for it whether I like it or not because I

:52:47.:52:49.

know that if I didn't reach it then I would be back in the place I was

:52:50.:52:53.

before. OK. To be weighed is horrendously

:52:54.:53:01.

anxiety provoking. One minute you can look at numbers and be kind of

:53:02.:53:06.

pleased that they've gone up because you've really worked hard and then

:53:07.:53:10.

half an hour later, you're devastated. Do you want to know what

:53:11.:53:16.

your weight is today or not know? No. He allowed us to film today if

:53:17.:53:22.

we agreed to only show his face. OK, all right then. He didn't want us to

:53:23.:53:31.

see the scales, but it means you also can't see his hands are

:53:32.:53:39.

shaking. It kind of does change the way you feel because you haven't

:53:40.:53:44.

known your weight throughout the day then suddenly seeing it, it just

:53:45.:53:51.

stays on your mind a bit. How do you feel about that? OK. Is it OK? A

:53:52.:53:57.

couple of hours after his weigh-in, Charles had a panic attack. He had

:53:58.:54:01.

seemed fine, but he was totally overwhelmed. He is fragile and

:54:02.:54:06.

that's typical of someone still battling to get better. I think I

:54:07.:54:11.

just had a stressful day overall because I had meetings with my

:54:12.:54:16.

doctors and I had the weigh-in and they were talking about my therapy

:54:17.:54:20.

coming to an end soon. So I think everything just got to me. The

:54:21.:54:26.

thought of returning to see his classmates after nearly two years is

:54:27.:54:29.

also playing on his mind. He is having serious doubts and considers

:54:30.:54:34.

pulling out. It feels like a big change because it has all happened

:54:35.:54:38.

so quickly and now it is coming to an end in a way. So it's quite new

:54:39.:54:51.

to me. But Charles is determined to recover. He wants his old life back

:54:52.:54:58.

and that means being brave. So we are off to my old school. I'm

:54:59.:55:06.

going to see some of my old friends. It is a long time and to go back is

:55:07.:55:13.

a bit scary. I'm still a bit scared.

:55:14.:55:19.

It is bringing back memories. A lot of memories. I just don't know what

:55:20.:55:32.

to expect. They've kind of seen me at my worst and so I don't know how

:55:33.:55:35.

they're going to react. Are you all right, mate?

:55:36.:56:22.

Hey. Where do I sit?

:56:23.:56:31.

I've been in hospital. I've been a inn a school in the hospital. Do

:56:32.:56:36.

people know about it? How was it for you? A bit awkward. Most of the

:56:37.:56:42.

patients were girls. So I was like the only boy. When did you realise

:56:43.:56:49.

that you had an eating disorder and did people around you notice? A lot

:56:50.:56:55.

of people would remember I used to wear my PE jacket all the time, even

:56:56.:56:59.

in the summer, that's because people were saying I was really thin. I

:57:00.:57:04.

kind of knew about it, but I didn't really get, I didn't know what it

:57:05.:57:09.

was so I didn't really go and get help early. ? I never guessed it

:57:10.:57:18.

would have been an eating disorder. I kind of knew something was up, but

:57:19.:57:22.

I never really thought that would be the problem. I used it in a way to

:57:23.:57:26.

show others that they can get through it too. Like I'm still me

:57:27.:57:32.

and I'm still just a teenager. So I'm not like some alien. Do you feel

:57:33.:57:39.

like you're ready to go back to the position you were in before? I want

:57:40.:57:43.

to kind of just get back to you guys.

:57:44.:57:54.

I felt he was really open and honest. We were just saying we were

:57:55.:58:01.

quite of shocked how honest they were. Quite brave, I think. I kind

:58:02.:58:07.

of knew something was up with Charles, Charles was a cool,

:58:08.:58:11.

confident guy. I'm feeling happy. How happy? Very happy because I'm

:58:12.:58:21.

seeing my old friends and it just feels good to be with them again.

:58:22.:58:28.

I'm going to have parties, go out, I feel more connected with reality.

:58:29.:58:32.

And I just feel like the old me. That film called Anorexia: A Boy

:58:33.:58:48.

in a Girl's World was made And you can find links to further

:58:49.:58:51.

information and advice by going to: Sophie says one example of why I

:58:52.:58:57.

love this show. And you can find links to further

:58:58.:59:08.

information and advice by going to: Plenty of you getting in touch on

:59:09.:59:11.

Helen Wood who is the former escort the public really care who slept

:59:12.:59:33.

with who? I don't think so. It affects the people directly affected

:59:34.:59:39.

of the that's it." Paul, "In the Twitter age always fail to hide the

:59:40.:59:48.

name." "Karl says, "For someone who says feels sorry for the actor, she

:59:49.:59:52.

is spending a lot of time talking to the media." Another viewer says,

:59:53.:59:58.

"Stop giving airtime to Helen Wood. People behave badly. That's it. "

:59:59.:00:04.

It is time for the latest weather. Have we got more scorchio day, Matt

:00:05.:00:06.

Taylor? Yesterday, all nations across the UK

:00:07.:00:18.

saw their warmest day of the year so far. Hottest of all was London, 27

:00:19.:00:29.

Celsius. It is feeling slightly different. We will see further

:00:30.:00:44.

showers. Some showers north of that. The vast majority of the UK, sunny

:00:45.:00:51.

skies all the way. These are the hottest places to be. It could hit

:00:52.:00:53.

26 degrees. This evening and overnight a band of

:00:54.:01:02.

thundery rain working northwards, fizzling out. Some showers. Slightly

:01:03.:01:08.

different day tomorrow. Scotland stays with the sunshine, Central and

:01:09.:01:12.

southern parts of England and Wales will have a much wetter day. Warmest

:01:13.:01:17.

weather confined to the West of Scotland.

:01:18.:01:24.

Hello it's just after 10 on Monday, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

:01:25.:01:26.

welcome to the programme if you've just joined us...coming

:01:27.:01:29.

Europe could descend into war if Britain votes to leave

:01:30.:01:33.

That's the warning from the Prime Minister this morning.

:01:34.:01:39.

Kenny has said, you have made my mind up, I am voting to leave now.

:01:40.:01:43.

Could the claims backfire? as a teenager by a family friend

:01:44.:01:45.

tells us of his anger at the way How can they keep

:01:46.:01:51.

closing doors like this? If there's nothing to hide,

:01:52.:01:58.

why can somebody not talk to me, why can we not have an honest

:01:59.:02:01.

conversation with someone who's of a level to really

:02:02.:02:04.

understand these things? David has waived his right to

:02:05.:02:19.

anonymity to tell his story. I would really like to apologise for not

:02:20.:02:31.

smuggling my dog... It would have been a bad thing to do.

:02:32.:02:33.

And Johnny Depp pokes fun at himself after his grovelling

:02:34.:02:35.

apology for taking his dogs into Australia illegally.

:02:36.:02:51.

Peace in Europe could be at risk if Britain votes

:02:52.:02:56.

to leave the European Union, that's the message from

:02:57.:02:58.

David Cameron as he puts forward the case to remain in the EU.

:02:59.:03:01.

In a speech focused on national security, the Prime Minister has

:03:02.:03:04.

warned that the stability Europe has enjoyed over the last few years,

:03:05.:03:07.

cannot be guaranteed in the event of a leave vote.

:03:08.:03:18.

Isolationism has never served this country well. Whenever we turn our

:03:19.:03:25.

back on Europe, sooner or later, we come to regret it. We've always had

:03:26.:03:29.

to go back in, and always at a much higher cost.

:03:30.:03:31.

Talks to end a long-running dispute over new contracts

:03:32.:03:33.

for junior doctors in England get underway today.

:03:34.:03:35.

The government and the BMA are meeting for the first

:03:36.:03:37.

The row has so far resulted in several days of strikes,

:03:38.:03:41.

A BBC News reporter, producer and cameraman have been

:03:42.:03:44.

expelled from North Korea, with one asked to sign

:03:45.:03:46.

an apology following an eight hour interrogation.

:03:47.:03:49.

The team - Rupert Wingfield-Hayes,

:03:50.:03:51.

Maria Byrne and Matthew Goddard - were due to leave Pyongyang

:03:52.:03:55.

at the end of last week but were detained as they were about

:03:56.:03:58.

They were taken to a hotel for questioning, with the North Korean

:03:59.:04:03.

regime unhappy about a series of television and online reports.

:04:04.:04:05.

All three have now been taken back to the airport to board

:04:06.:04:08.

A former escort, Helen Wood, who is at the centre of a gagging

:04:09.:04:14.

order preventing the identity of a married actor being exposed,

:04:15.:04:17.

has told this programme she believes injunctions are a complete waste

:04:18.:04:20.

The married actor, who can't be named in England and Wales,

:04:21.:04:28.

has been named in publications in America and Ireland.

:04:29.:04:35.

Injunctions are pointless because look at the damage it has caused.

:04:36.:04:41.

Unless it is a decision made all over the world where you cannot be

:04:42.:04:45.

found anywhere, I don't see the point in it. It makes our country

:04:46.:04:46.

look pretty stupid. A 49 year old man has told this

:04:47.:04:50.

programme, how he was groomed, sexually assaulted and raped

:04:51.:04:53.

at the age of 15 by a family friend who shot himself minutes

:04:54.:04:56.

after police warned him he was about to be arrested over his

:04:57.:04:58.

historical sex abuse claims. David, who's waived his right

:04:59.:05:01.

to anonymity, also claims he was abused by other men

:05:02.:05:03.

at Dolphin Square, a block of flats in London which has been

:05:04.:05:06.

investigated by police over claims of a Westminster VIP

:05:07.:05:09.

paedophile ring. I ended up losing my career over it

:05:10.:05:23.

because I needed time off. I only had six weeks off. I shut down, did

:05:24.:05:28.

not eat for days, lost two stone, did not shower, did not shave for a

:05:29.:05:33.

fortnight. Did not want to leave the house. Luckily I had good friends

:05:34.:05:37.

who said you got to get on with life. I was lucky but it destroys

:05:38.:05:53.

you. You can see that interview in full.

:05:54.:05:55.

A fifth of the oil town of Fort McMurray has been destroyed

:05:56.:05:58.

by the wildfire that has raged in central Canada for

:05:59.:06:00.

It's expected to be the most costly natural disaster

:06:01.:06:03.

But officials say the fire may have reached a turning point,

:06:04.:06:07.

with cooler temperatures helping firefighters.

:06:08.:06:10.

The BBC picked up more than half of the awards on offer

:06:11.:06:13.

Some winners used their acceptance speeches to defend the corporation,

:06:14.:06:17.

ahead of this week's government White Paper on its future.

:06:18.:06:20.

Wolf Hall won Best British Drama and Best Actor.

:06:21.:06:24.

Its director, Peter Kosminsky, took the opportunity to warn

:06:25.:06:26.

the government against interfering with public service broadcasting.

:06:27.:06:38.

In many ways, our broadcasting, BBC and Channel 4, which they are also

:06:39.:06:44.

attempting to eviscerate, is the envy of the world, and we should

:06:45.:06:49.

stand up and fight for it, not let it go by default. If we don't, link

:06:50.:06:54.

and it will be gone. Thank you very much. That is the latest BBC News.

:06:55.:07:03.

Moore at 10:30am. This is what you thought. Quite a few of you wanting

:07:04.:07:13.

to comment on how often the Conservative interrupted. Thoroughly

:07:14.:07:19.

enjoy your programme but I'm really disappointed in the way that the

:07:20.:07:22.

junior doctor was continually interrupted. The elderly gentleman

:07:23.:07:28.

repeatedly talked over the young woman and no action was taken to

:07:29.:07:36.

bring him to order. This tweet from Bobby referring to the research,

:07:37.:07:44.

which shows that there is no higher mortality at the weekend, in

:07:45.:07:48.

essence, the doctors were right and Jeremy Hunt was wrong. Continue to

:07:49.:08:03.

get in touch. We have the sport. In the last few minutes the Court of

:08:04.:08:07.

Arbitration for Sport has announced Michel Platini has had his ban from

:08:08.:08:10.

all football related activity reduced from six to four Mac years.

:08:11.:08:19.

He will resign from his role. Manuel Pellegrini did not get the farewell

:08:20.:08:23.

he would have wanted at Manchester City's final home game of the

:08:24.:08:26.

season. A draw with Arsenal means getting into the Champions League is

:08:27.:08:34.

out of their hands. They lost their Leeds twice. Alexis Sanchez brought

:08:35.:08:40.

Arsenal back twice. Annie Welbeck injured his knee and it could leave

:08:41.:08:46.

him out of the euro -- Danny Welbeck. Manchester United travel to

:08:47.:08:53.

West Ham United two points behind Manchester City. It is out of our

:08:54.:09:01.

hands. On Tuesday we will know what happens. We will try to win our last

:09:02.:09:11.

game at Swansea and see what happens with the other teams. Tottenham's

:09:12.:09:18.

disappointing week did not get any better. They lost 2-1 to

:09:19.:09:22.

Southampton. They can still secure second place if they get a point

:09:23.:09:29.

against Newcastle. Liverpool are back to winning ways in the league.

:09:30.:09:37.

They beat Watford 2-0. That keeps them eat in the table, one point

:09:38.:09:42.

behind West Ham. Ronny Deila will leave Celtic having guided the club

:09:43.:09:45.

to back-to-back titles. It was their fifth in a row after a 3-2 win over

:09:46.:09:52.

Aberdeen. They were already nine points clear of the visitors and

:09:53.:09:56.

19-year-old Patrick Roberts, on loan from Manchester City, scored twice.

:09:57.:10:03.

Andy Murray has dropped to third in the world rankings after losing the

:10:04.:10:07.

final of the Madrid Masters to Novak Djokovic. It was a slow start as he

:10:08.:10:12.

lost the first set, he dusted himself off and came back

:10:13.:10:17.

brilliantly to take the second. In the third set he could not make the

:10:18.:10:20.

most of the break points and Novak Djokovic served to take his second

:10:21.:10:27.

Madrid title. Roger Federer has leapfrogged Andy Murray to number

:10:28.:10:36.

two in the world. We've been at the top of the game for a very long

:10:37.:10:47.

time. I hope I can stay there for longer. Some players are playing

:10:48.:10:50.

into their late 30s now. I don't know if I'll be able to do that but

:10:51.:10:55.

there are hopefully a few good years left. Good morning. Thank you for

:10:56.:11:02.

chilling in. "There's been no justice,

:11:03.:11:04.

no day in court, no vindication" - the words of David, who says

:11:05.:11:06.

at he age of 15 he was groomed, sexually assaulted and raped

:11:07.:11:10.

by a family friend in the 1980s. That family friend took his own life

:11:11.:11:13.

shortly after being warned by police that he was about to be arrested

:11:14.:11:17.

over allegations of historic sexual abuse against

:11:18.:11:20.

David and other boys. David, who's 49, has chosen

:11:21.:11:25.

to waive his right to anonymity to tell us his story -

:11:26.:11:28.

though he doesn't want He alleges that Gordon Dawson,

:11:29.:11:31.

a farmer and respected community figure, abused him in Lincolnshire

:11:32.:11:37.

and and on weekend trips to London where he believes other men may

:11:38.:11:41.

also have been involved. David says when in London he stayed

:11:42.:11:44.

at Dolphin Square, a block of flats 18 months ago police set up

:11:45.:11:47.

an inquiry called Operation Midland to look into historical claims

:11:48.:11:53.

of a Westminster VIP paedophile ring It closed in March this year -

:11:54.:11:57.

without any charges being brought. He says he feels let down

:11:58.:12:03.

by both Lincolnshire Police David has been telling his

:12:04.:12:06.

story to Buzzfeed News His story is explicit and upsetting

:12:07.:12:11.

and you may not want The interview lasts

:12:12.:12:15.

just under 20 minutes. He started by describing how

:12:16.:12:19.

the alleged abuse began Rural life involves a lot of things,

:12:20.:12:36.

hunting, shooting, a lot of people do not like those things but it was

:12:37.:12:40.

just how I grew up. You would learn how to shoot, the ways of the

:12:41.:12:45.

country, they had a big farm, they had shoots that required production

:12:46.:12:51.

of birds for the shoots, gamekeeping, you are privileged to

:12:52.:12:57.

have a window into that and you spend a lot of time with somebody on

:12:58.:13:05.

your own. And Gordon Dawson offered private shooting lessons which is

:13:06.:13:09.

when he first sexually assaulted and raped you. Yes. That was the final

:13:10.:13:16.

catalyst, it was an opportunity for him to have me on my own. You go out

:13:17.:13:24.

at night and tonight shooting. You need to be quiet and close to each

:13:25.:13:30.

other. There is a normality about that and I'm sure that is the way

:13:31.:13:33.

that it works anyway, to be normal, there comes a time when the barriers

:13:34.:13:41.

become broken down, you are of an age where you don't understand, you

:13:42.:13:45.

know that it is not right but there are a lot of things you do that are

:13:46.:13:49.

not right. You're learning and going through difficult times in your

:13:50.:13:54.

head, physically as well, those barriers get broken down and then I

:13:55.:14:00.

think it is almost open season. How old were you when this happened? 15.

:14:01.:14:09.

What impact did it have on you? You die. That sounds quite strong but

:14:10.:14:18.

that is how I feel. You feel that part of you is always 15 or even

:14:19.:14:23.

younger. If you even younger. A child. I was very naive person at

:14:24.:14:32.

that age. 15-year-olds are very different these days. Things have

:14:33.:14:39.

changed dramatically in 35 years. Did you tell anyone? Not for a long

:14:40.:14:43.

time. I was in my mid-20s before I told anybody. Do you know why you

:14:44.:14:49.

did not tell your parents for example? I did not want them to

:14:50.:14:54.

know. I tried to protect them. When things go on and happen, you become

:14:55.:14:58.

embedded in it and cannot control your own mind. You are emasculated

:14:59.:15:05.

and you feel numb about everything. You are not sure why it happened,

:15:06.:15:16.

there are enormous questions. There is a part where you are told no one

:15:17.:15:23.

will believe you. These are important people. He is an important

:15:24.:15:30.

person. Who is going to believe you? Part of you thinks, maybe this is

:15:31.:15:34.

what life is? Maybe this is what happens in life? Maybe it is just

:15:35.:15:39.

me. You're trying to balance all that.

:15:40.:15:43.

You tried to remove yourself from the situation. You changed schools,

:15:44.:15:51.

you went to your old school which was further away, but Gordon offered

:15:52.:15:55.

to bring you back on a Friday night, back to the family home and the

:15:56.:15:59.

abuse continues, you say? I think that's when it got worse really

:16:00.:16:05.

because I was then unknowingly putting myself in a worse situation

:16:06.:16:11.

because obviously I lived several hours away from my parents and it

:16:12.:16:16.

meant somebody needed to pick me up. Gordon was a generous and kind

:16:17.:16:19.

person and you know, very close to my parents. He would say, "I will do

:16:20.:16:24.

that. I will pick him up." And so he did. Not all the time, but often.

:16:25.:16:30.

And then he began to suggest weekend trips to London and this was around

:16:31.:16:35.

1982. Yes. Tell me what you remember of those weekends? I remember less

:16:36.:16:43.

of those. It is a very different my mind remembers what happened very

:16:44.:16:47.

clearly at home in Lincolnshire. London was different. It was

:16:48.:16:52.

exciting. I had never really been to London as such. We would go to a

:16:53.:16:58.

show. We would go to General Synod meetings. He had something to do

:16:59.:17:03.

with that. I don't know exactly what, but we would go to those and I

:17:04.:17:07.

would sit in the gallery and I can see it now and watch those meetings.

:17:08.:17:13.

We would go to swanky dinners at various places. There would be a lot

:17:14.:17:16.

of other people there at those dinners. And we stayed in a very big

:17:17.:17:30.

place called Dolphin Square. But you would wake up the next morning and

:17:31.:17:33.

know you had been abused? That was horrific. You know. As graphic as

:17:34.:17:40.

you like, but at the end of the day, it doesn't take a lot of working out

:17:41.:17:44.

if you're bleeding, you're bleeding and that's it and when you bleed

:17:45.:17:47.

from certain places for certain reasons and you're trying to work it

:17:48.:17:50.

all out and it is really tough and you have been through the mill. You

:17:51.:17:54.

feel exhausted. So you can't piece the bits together. I think that

:17:55.:17:58.

whole journey of understanding what happens to you became almost normal

:17:59.:18:02.

for me because that became a semi regular occurrence. So you sort of

:18:03.:18:06.

know something is going on, but you can't control it. Do you believe

:18:07.:18:13.

that you were abused not just, you say by Gordon on these weekend

:18:14.:18:18.

trips, but by other men? Yeah. And I think the damage that's done would

:18:19.:18:27.

have to be explainable by somebody else because oh god, sorry... It is

:18:28.:18:31.

all right. Only say what you want to say. There are certain physical

:18:32.:18:36.

attributes which would point to the fact that it couldn't just have been

:18:37.:18:42.

him. In 2007, you spoke to Lincolnshire Police after learning

:18:43.:18:48.

that you might not have been the only alleged victim of Gordon

:18:49.:18:53.

Dawson. Correct, yes. You spent a day with an investigating officer

:18:54.:18:56.

from Lincolnshire Police, what did he tell you about Gordon Dawson? I

:18:57.:19:00.

asked him if I was the only one. You spend your life thinking you are the

:19:01.:19:05.

only one, it is only you and he said, he almost laughed, he didn't

:19:06.:19:12.

laugh, but he was quite jovial about it and said, "No, we believe Gordon

:19:13.:19:18.

Dawson has been an active paedophile for 45 years. He said you are

:19:19.:19:23.

certainly not the only one. He used various numbers of people that had

:19:24.:19:28.

come forward and various, a different number for people who had

:19:29.:19:32.

actually made statements and were willing to stand by what they had

:19:33.:19:36.

said. And that varied between nine and 20. So all of a sudden, I felt

:19:37.:19:45.

that I wasn't so alone. Did the investigating officer Sergeant Jeff

:19:46.:19:48.

Harrison reveal to you that Gordon Dawson had been arrested before?

:19:49.:19:53.

Yes, twice apparently. That's how I came forward because somebody told

:19:54.:19:57.

me they heard a rumour. They didn't know what happened to me, they knew

:19:58.:20:02.

growing up that I had been a bit odd and a bit different and isolated.

:20:03.:20:07.

They said, "I don't know why I'm ringing you, but I'm ringing to tell

:20:08.:20:10.

you this happened. You probably ought to maybe speak to someone, I

:20:11.:20:14.

don't know." That's how it kicked off. The day after you signed your

:20:15.:20:18.

witness statement, you discovered that Gordon Dawson had killed

:20:19.:20:26.

himself? Yes. And that was something that you thought might happen,

:20:27.:20:30.

explain why? I was concerned that it was a risk and so I just asked as a

:20:31.:20:34.

general question, what had happened to his guns, had he had them

:20:35.:20:39.

removed? So Jeff said, "Ah, no, he hadn't. ." I said that should be

:20:40.:20:46.

done because he is a high risk and you spent a considerable amount of

:20:47.:20:49.

money and time a lot of people, we can't put that at risk and Jeff

:20:50.:20:54.

said, "We have put two requests in to do this, but it has been denied.

:20:55.:20:58.

They feel it is not a problem. I said well, it is a problem. How did

:20:59.:21:03.

you react when you heard that Gordon Dawson had taken his own life? That

:21:04.:21:08.

was tough. I mean dealing with this head-on was tough. Make ago

:21:09.:21:13.

statement was tough. But I went on to a really difficult decline at

:21:14.:21:17.

that point. That's when I think I realised, I'm a fairly tough guy,

:21:18.:21:21.

but I realised that your mind is very vulnerable and everyone has so

:21:22.:21:25.

much capacity and I think I had gone over mine and I had became as near

:21:26.:21:30.

to a nervous breakdown as I ever want to get. Why do you think that

:21:31.:21:41.

happened? Because you felt... The cheating, the fact that you will

:21:42.:21:47.

never be able to see it out. That you get no resolution, no justice.

:21:48.:21:50.

There has been no justice here whatsoever. You don't get your day

:21:51.:21:54.

in courtment you don't get to be vindicated. You open that floodgate

:21:55.:22:01.

to talk about this thing which is horrendous anyway and no one really

:22:02.:22:06.

wants to believe it and I don't blame them and then surredenly it is

:22:07.:22:11.

shut. So I was furious, absolutely furious. And I couldn't control the

:22:12.:22:19.

fury. I was frightened of myself. I think I frightened other people. I

:22:20.:22:22.

frightened my family, I frightened my friends. I ended up, I ended up

:22:23.:22:28.

losing my career over it because I needed time off. I didn't have much

:22:29.:22:32.

time off, I only had six weeks off in total. I shutdown, I didn't eat

:22:33.:22:36.

for days, I lost two-and-a-half stone, I didn't shower for a

:22:37.:22:40.

fortnight, I didn't shave for a fortnight, I didn't want to go out

:22:41.:22:44.

of the house. Luckily I had good friends who said, "You've got to get

:22:45.:22:48.

on with life, come with me, we're going here, we're going there." I

:22:49.:22:52.

was lucky from that point of view, but it destrous you. It was at

:22:53.:22:57.

Gordon Dawson's inquest that you learned that he had been told he was

:22:58.:23:05.

about to be re-arrested. When you discovered that, what did you think?

:23:06.:23:10.

Oh god, I couldn't believe that. That to me just seemed crazy. They

:23:11.:23:17.

had apparently only done it twice. They had apparently rung him up to

:23:18.:23:27.

tell him he was going to be arrested. My response to that was,

:23:28.:23:33.

"Well, do you ring everybody? Do you ring your drug dealers? Don't pop

:23:34.:23:37.

out because we are going to arrest you." That's how it felt to me. I

:23:38.:23:41.

couldn't believe they prewarned people. Yeah, I was so shocked at

:23:42.:23:47.

that procedure. No process. It just seemed really odd to me. It seemed

:23:48.:23:52.

like favouritism. Would that have happened to me? Subsequently you

:23:53.:23:58.

also learned that apparently, Dawson had been told that you had come

:23:59.:24:02.

forward and made a statement. He was told that information? Yes. So I was

:24:03.:24:08.

told. I did say, if fairness, I said, well, you know, does he know

:24:09.:24:11.

who has come forward and they said no. I said if he knows I've come

:24:12.:24:20.

forward, he won't like that. Because he is so close to my family. So I

:24:21.:24:26.

said but you can happily tell him I wasn't in a fit state to make

:24:27.:24:30.

decisions at that point. I didn't know how to compute that. Looking

:24:31.:24:35.

back, it was the wrong thing to do. And seems bizarre that it actually

:24:36.:24:39.

happened. But apparently it did. When he took his own life, that was

:24:40.:24:44.

the end of the police investigation. Something that you complained about.

:24:45.:24:48.

So they appoint add chief inspector from the force's Professional

:24:49.:24:51.

Standards Department to do an internal investigation. Did you ever

:24:52.:24:55.

hear the findings of that report, the outcome of that report? No, no,

:24:56.:25:00.

again we have had no justice. No finals, no process, it has been

:25:01.:25:05.

shutdown, shutdown all the way so that makes you nervous. What do you

:25:06.:25:09.

think was going on? I came forward to help because someone said I think

:25:10.:25:12.

something is going on and you can contribute and I did that and we did

:25:13.:25:16.

the same with the Met as well. So really, you can't help, but worry

:25:17.:25:20.

when you don't get answers. Your mind does tend to think what is

:25:21.:25:25.

going on here? Because one person is telling me one thing and one person

:25:26.:25:29.

is telling me another and when the person dies they shut the

:25:30.:25:33.

investigation down completely. You mentioned the Metropolitan Police,

:25:34.:25:37.

they had various investigations going on into allegations of past

:25:38.:25:42.

sexual abuse by public figures. You got in touch with them to let them

:25:43.:25:47.

know about your experiences and the fact thaw believed some of the abuse

:25:48.:25:51.

happened at Dolphin Square, what came of your conversations with

:25:52.:25:54.

them? I made it quite clear that I would speak to them, but I didn't

:25:55.:25:58.

want messing around. That I had been messed around. They there had been

:25:59.:26:02.

doors shut left, right and centre and people hadn't spoken to me and

:26:03.:26:05.

that I asked for answers and I hadn't got them. And I said don't

:26:06.:26:10.

give me false supportment they said come forward we will support you.

:26:11.:26:13.

What's in place to support me? I was upfront before I went. I went. I

:26:14.:26:20.

spoke to two super officers, super, they were, I would probably use the

:26:21.:26:24.

word animated about what I had to tell them. I wish I could remember

:26:25.:26:29.

more detail. I wish I could be more specific, I wish I had videos and

:26:30.:26:33.

footage. It was almost like that's what you needed to prove it and so

:26:34.:26:38.

we had the conversations. They said, when I left, I said to them, "Look

:26:39.:26:46.

cut to the chase, am I walking out the door and you will say that guy

:26:47.:26:56.

doesn't know enough. They said not. A few days later, thanks, but no

:26:57.:27:00.

thanks. We are not looking at this. We are only interested in this. In

:27:01.:27:03.

the end I pushed a bit harder and I got the guy running the case who

:27:04.:27:09.

said the most incredibly dreadful e-mail. It is just unbelievable that

:27:10.:27:14.

a guy in that position can speak let alone e-mail somebody. An e-mail

:27:15.:27:19.

that's full of spelling mistakes and B, it is inappropriate in its

:27:20.:27:23.

content and doesn't give my any clarity about what I went to

:27:24.:27:27.

contribute towards and just fobs me off. We contacted the Met. They told

:27:28.:27:32.

us they reviewed the material in your case, but, "In the absence of

:27:33.:27:39.

new lines of inquiry and substantive allegations made or new witnesses,

:27:40.:27:44.

the matter remains closed." How can they keep closing doors like this?

:27:45.:27:49.

If there is nothing to hide, why can somebody not talk to me? Why can we

:27:50.:27:53.

not have a conversation with somebody at a level that understand

:27:54.:27:58.

these things. I did various Freedom of Information Requests, it has been

:27:59.:28:01.

tough, it was the last thing I wanted to do. There is all sorts of

:28:02.:28:05.

information that I had not had that I know exists and if it doesn't

:28:06.:28:11.

exist why is it destroyed? I know the investigation they did in

:28:12.:28:15.

Lincolnshire revealed some interesting facts. We got in touch

:28:16.:28:19.

with them and asked them a series of questions about your case. "We will

:28:20.:28:25.

not be respond to go your queries." That's charming, isn't it? They

:28:26.:28:30.

actually never told me. Lincolnshire Police never actually told me that

:28:31.:28:35.

Gordon Dawson shot himself. I heard it from a friend. I'm not saying

:28:36.:28:40.

that anything untoward has gone on, but I'm saying I can't, but feel it

:28:41.:28:46.

has. I was taken to Dolphin Square and I know a lot went on there. The

:28:47.:28:50.

way to sort this out is get everything on the table. Let's get

:28:51.:28:53.

this right going forward, it is so important. I nou I'm lucky. I still

:28:54.:28:59.

have my sanity. I don't have an addiction. I haven't actually tried

:29:00.:29:04.

to kill myself. I have come close, but I'm lucky.

:29:05.:29:09.

Can you ask you finally to explain to our audience why you are waving

:29:10.:29:17.

your right to anonymity? That's been a big one because I'm very private.

:29:18.:29:24.

I have a life. I don't want to suffer from that, but at the same

:29:25.:29:28.

time, it has gone on too long. I'm 50 next year. Every day I think

:29:29.:29:35.

about this. Every day it is part of me and I think it is really

:29:36.:29:38.

important. There has been enough secrets and enough hidden corners

:29:39.:29:41.

and enough anonymity. Enough with the anonymity. Let's, I am who I am.

:29:42.:29:46.

I know what happened. I have nothing to hide. I just want some answers,

:29:47.:29:54.

you know, I have been raped, raped and abused, I just want to know more

:29:55.:29:57.

and understand more. That's all. I don't think that's too much to ask.

:29:58.:30:01.

Thank you very much for talking to us, David, thank you. Thank you.

:30:02.:30:15.

One person says, he is a brave man talking about his child abuse. You

:30:16.:30:22.

can watch the interview and read the article. We asked Gordon Dawson's

:30:23.:30:26.

family for a reaction but they said they have no comment to make. The

:30:27.:30:33.

Met police confirmed officers did review the material and in the

:30:34.:30:43.

absence of any new witnesses, the matter remains closed. If new

:30:44.:30:51.

evidence comes to light we will readdress that recorded decision.

:30:52.:30:55.

Quite a few of you getting in touch about David Cameron's claim.

:30:56.:31:02.

David says if Cameron feared such things, why did he ever allow a

:31:03.:31:09.

referendum? This e-mail, the only prediction they have not tried yet

:31:10.:31:18.

is ending the world. We asked for an informed debate. All we are getting

:31:19.:31:22.

ask your stories. There will be uncertainty which ever way we go.

:31:23.:31:27.

This tweet, David Cameron is clearly very worried. Here's a clip of what

:31:28.:31:29.

he said. Isolationism has never served this

:31:30.:31:40.

country well. Whenever we turn our back on Europe we come to regret it.

:31:41.:31:46.

We've always had to go back in and always at a much higher cost. The

:31:47.:31:53.

rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries

:31:54.:31:56.

stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to

:31:57.:32:03.

restore peace and order in Europe. Can we be so sure that peace and

:32:04.:32:08.

stability on our continent are assured beyond a shadow of the

:32:09.:32:12.

doubt? Is that a risk worth taking? I would never be so rash as to make

:32:13.:32:16.

that assumption. It has been a leading 20 years since war in the

:32:17.:32:21.

Balkans and genocide on our continent. In the last few years we

:32:22.:32:25.

have seen tanks rolling into Georgia and Ukraine. Of this I am completely

:32:26.:32:33.

sure. The European Union has helped reconcile countries which were at

:32:34.:32:39.

each other's throats. Britain has a fundamental national interest at

:32:40.:32:46.

maintaining common purpose in Europe to avoid future conflict. That

:32:47.:32:50.

requires additional leadership and for Britain to remain a member. Let

:32:51.:33:01.

Doctor Malcolm Rifkind. He served in Margaret Thatcher's government. Liam

:33:02.:33:12.

Fox supports Britain leaving the EU. Is this scaremongering? I think this

:33:13.:33:28.

was over the top this idea. It is proposed is. Is it a fair point? I

:33:29.:33:34.

think Liam is missing the point. David Cameron was reminding us that

:33:35.:33:39.

we had to Mac world wars which started in Europe, Britain was

:33:40.:33:44.

involved from day one. The European Union was created as an attempt, a

:33:45.:33:49.

successful attempt, to make sure that could never again happen in

:33:50.:33:53.

Western Europe. I'm well aware that Nato is where we have the military

:33:54.:33:59.

security of Europe but we also need the political reconciliation of all

:34:00.:34:02.

the enemies, France, Germany, Britain. We were in both of these

:34:03.:34:08.

wars and we've seen how Europe has had wars and is still having them.

:34:09.:34:15.

The risk David Cameron was referring to is not that we would go to war

:34:16.:34:21.

three years later, it is that we would start the fragmentation. For a

:34:22.:34:27.

country the size of the UK to leave means the EU's existence would

:34:28.:34:33.

become at stake. Final point is it is now call incidents that the

:34:34.:34:37.

people who want to see us leave the EU are Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump,

:34:38.:34:45.

whereas our friends in America, Australia, Canada are desperately

:34:46.:34:49.

anxious that we remain. Is it worth any potential instability if Britain

:34:50.:34:56.

leaves? I think the instability is already there. The nationalised

:34:57.:35:03.

tendencies that led us to conflict I there. -- National list tendencies.

:35:04.:35:09.

There is anger because of the democratic deficit. You're seeing

:35:10.:35:13.

offences going up across Europe because, in my view, those running

:35:14.:35:20.

Europe are refusing to change direction from a direction set in

:35:21.:35:26.

the 1950s. This idea that the European Union has created stability

:35:27.:35:30.

and peace since World War II, there has been an element of that, but

:35:31.:35:34.

most of the countries have only been there since 2004. We were not there

:35:35.:35:38.

for the first 20 years. I would agree that it is neater which has

:35:39.:35:43.

provided that but there are more options. We cooperate with a lot of

:35:44.:35:50.

countries not in the European Union. We can cooperate with our

:35:51.:35:53.

counterparts in the European Union on the continent as we do with

:35:54.:35:59.

Norway, which is not in the union but is part of continental Europe.

:36:00.:36:04.

Some of these points are being made by voters, they say David Cameron is

:36:05.:36:10.

being a bit over the top. If you go buy some of the headlines, Cameron

:36:11.:36:16.

says there will be war, you has never said that but I can understand

:36:17.:36:21.

why people would be angry. That is not what he is saying and you have

:36:22.:36:25.

shown a very fair excerpt from it. He is saying Western Europe, never

:36:26.:36:29.

mind Russia and Eastern Europe, Western Europe is where all of us

:36:30.:36:39.

went to war, not once, twice, and why Churchill called for the

:36:40.:36:44.

European Union was because, unless there was reconciliation, primarily

:36:45.:36:50.

between France and Germany, we could not stay out of these wars. We are

:36:51.:36:57.

part of Europe. If Europe fragments, a country the size of Britain

:36:58.:37:01.

leaving, other countries might be saying, what is the future of this

:37:02.:37:06.

European Union? That is why Vladimir Putin will be delighted. He knows

:37:07.:37:14.

that I united Europe combined with Nato means his aspirations cannot be

:37:15.:37:25.

realised. We were in the European Union when they invaded Georgia, the

:37:26.:37:33.

annexed Crimea. I agree, of course we want reconciliation between

:37:34.:37:35.

France and Germany but the model they choose is up to them. We need

:37:36.:37:40.

to choose what is good for the United Kingdom and I think the model

:37:41.:37:44.

is far too restrictive and interfering, and that is what we

:37:45.:37:53.

need to get back. Let me respond to that point. The examples he uses

:37:54.:37:58.

prove the point I was making. Russia has used Armed Forces in Ukraine and

:37:59.:38:04.

Georgia, not members of the European Union. Estonia is. It has been

:38:05.:38:09.

subject to a cyber attack but no military involvement because they

:38:10.:38:15.

know perfectly well that it would be entitled to the protection of the

:38:16.:38:21.

European Union. Do you accept that? I think this idea that they will be

:38:22.:38:25.

dancing in the Kremlin if we leave the European Union is hyperbolic and

:38:26.:38:28.

I don't think helps the rational debate. There are lots of ways that

:38:29.:38:34.

the United Kingdom could continue to cooperate as a sovereign nation

:38:35.:38:40.

without Brussels telling at what laws we need to accept and who can

:38:41.:38:43.

settle in the United Kingdom and how to spend our money. It is about what

:38:44.:38:48.

kind of model we want. And if other countries were to choose to leave,

:38:49.:38:52.

it is because the European Union was feeling for them as well. That is

:38:53.:38:56.

one of the things that I hope will happen. I hope if we leave it will

:38:57.:39:00.

be shock therapy for those who are in control in Brussels to recognise

:39:01.:39:04.

that other countries might leave if they don't change the way in which

:39:05.:39:07.

they are running the European Union. Does that not make you worry about

:39:08.:39:12.

intelligence sharing across the European Union if Britain leaves?

:39:13.:39:21.

What one head of MI6 was sharing, that they might share intelligence

:39:22.:39:25.

but not what Britain wants. If we are influencing that it is a good

:39:26.:39:35.

thing. Are closest partners... We have the closest intelligence

:39:36.:39:39.

sharing with countries not in the European Union. It is in our mutual

:39:40.:39:43.

interests to do so for the protection of our citizens. This

:39:44.:39:47.

idea that the other European countries would diminish that

:39:48.:39:51.

intelligence sharing because we are outside the European Union accept

:39:52.:39:54.

that they would be willing to tolerate additional risk to their

:39:55.:39:59.

own citizens as a punishment for Britain is absurd in the real world.

:40:00.:40:03.

We are not going to not pass on intelligence to Britain. Are they? I

:40:04.:40:13.

am not going to shirk from saying this, I cheered Britain's

:40:14.:40:18.

intelligence committee for five years. Liam is right that our

:40:19.:40:23.

cooperation with America, Australia, Canada and New Zealand is very

:40:24.:40:27.

important but the terrorist threat we are getting at the moment is

:40:28.:40:35.

within Britain, France and Belgium, it is European cooperation on

:40:36.:40:38.

intelligence that is crucially important over the next few years.

:40:39.:40:44.

Sir Richard Dearlove said if another European country got a tip-off about

:40:45.:40:49.

an attack they are not going to not tell us. You are absolutely right,

:40:50.:40:56.

any civilised country would tell us, but that is not the point, properly

:40:57.:41:03.

intelligence is done by accumulating very large amounts of data on

:41:04.:41:08.

suspected terrorists and the people we are mixing with. Because these

:41:09.:41:12.

are international terrorists, in France, Belgium, Britain,

:41:13.:41:17.

communicate with each other, we need to get that information very

:41:18.:41:22.

quickly. Let me give one example, if a DNA sample is found at the moment

:41:23.:41:26.

it takes hours, days, for that exchange between various countries.

:41:27.:41:31.

Under the new scheme in the EU which we will benefit from, crucial DNA

:41:32.:41:35.

information can be shared within minutes. Just one example. I could

:41:36.:41:41.

give half a dozen others. That is why the head of MI5 and MI6 and

:41:42.:41:45.

everyone involved in intelligence, there are a couple that take a

:41:46.:41:51.

different view but the vast majority of people who handle intelligence

:41:52.:41:55.

would be deeply disturbed if the improvements we are seeing in

:41:56.:41:58.

European cooperation were set back in this gratuitous way. I don't

:41:59.:42:02.

think they need to be set back. I think we can cooperate with our

:42:03.:42:06.

partners and find ways of doing what is in our mutual interest. You've

:42:07.:42:09.

got to balance some of that against the American Attorney General seeing

:42:10.:42:15.

that the way in which we could deal with information in Europe might

:42:16.:42:19.

affect information sharing with the US. You need to look at the Hall of

:42:20.:42:23.

the argument. The intelligence community is not all on one side.

:42:24.:42:28.

Overwhelmingly in the intelligence community they are saying Britain is

:42:29.:42:33.

safer in with Europe. They are saying if we were excluded. I don't

:42:34.:42:37.

think we would be. But you don't know? It is up to the government to

:42:38.:42:47.

protect the situation. On all these questions, Liam and his colleagues,

:42:48.:42:51.

all they can say is we don't believe this will happen, we hope this will

:42:52.:42:55.

not happen, we see no reason why it should happen. That is not the

:42:56.:42:58.

reassurance the people of Britain will have. Thank you. Liam Fox,

:42:59.:43:03.

former Defence Secretary, and Sir Malcolm Rifkind, former Foreign

:43:04.:43:11.

Secretary. A 64-year-old man has admitted murdering a teenage girl

:43:12.:43:13.

who was stabbed to death over three decades ago. Christopher Hampton has

:43:14.:43:22.

pleaded guilty to murdering the girl, who was 17. She was described

:43:23.:43:26.

as bright and outgoing by her family. She was sexually assaulted

:43:27.:43:31.

and died from multiple stab wounds. She had decided to walk the 20

:43:32.:43:34.

minute journey home following a night out with friends in Somerset.

:43:35.:43:37.

The body was discovered the next morning. Father of three Christopher

:43:38.:43:43.

Hampton from Bristol had been due to stand trial at Bristol Crown Court

:43:44.:43:48.

today after denying the charge originally. He has admitted

:43:49.:43:55.

murdering the girl as she was walking home after a night out. She

:43:56.:44:04.

was stabbed to death 32 years ago. Time to stand up and say no to this

:44:05.:44:13.

dangerous nonsense. The director of Wolf Hall was just one of the stars

:44:14.:44:16.

who spoke up in defence of the BBC. It comes days before the government

:44:17.:44:23.

plans to publish its plans setting out the structure for the future of

:44:24.:44:30.

the BBC. I think all these films, the writers, directors, the cast and

:44:31.:44:34.

crew, everyone in this hall, is able to do what they do as well as they

:44:35.:44:36.

do because the BBC. Do not strip it away. Did you watch

:44:37.:45:00.

the Hollow Crown last night? I would like to thank the BBC who have

:45:01.:45:06.

allowed us to be rude about the government, of all persuasions and

:45:07.:45:10.

none, and their opposition, and rude about the BBC itself, which is a

:45:11.:45:16.

privilege you are given with public service broadcasting and not on

:45:17.:45:19.

state television. Thank you very much. I am struck tonight by the

:45:20.:45:27.

quality of the story telling in this country and I agree with Peter that

:45:28.:45:32.

the times are hard but I think, will to any government or corporation who

:45:33.:45:38.

tries to get between the British people and their love of a good

:45:39.:45:43.

joke, a true story, a good song, a fact, fiction, good sports

:45:44.:45:49.

commentating, newscasters who can hold themselves together as they

:45:50.:45:53.

tell stories about tragedies, the incredible variety, people can cook

:45:54.:46:01.

well, bake cakes, the variety of culture, of popular culture in this

:46:02.:46:05.

country, it is really blowing my mind tonight. In the week in which

:46:06.:46:12.

John Whittingdale described the disappearance of the BBC as a

:46:13.:46:16.

tempting prospect, I'd like to say a few words in defence of that

:46:17.:46:17.

organisation. APPLAUSE I think most people would

:46:18.:46:32.

agree the BBC's main job is to speak truth to power. To report to the

:46:33.:46:37.

British public without fear or favour no matter how unpalatable

:46:38.:46:40.

that might be to those in Government. It is a public

:46:41.:46:43.

broadcaster, independent of Government, it is your BBC.

:46:44.:46:52.

APPLAUSE In many ways, in many ways our

:46:53.:46:58.

broadcasting, the BBC and Channel 4, which they are also attempting to

:46:59.:47:04.

vis rate, is the envy of the world and we should stand up and fight for

:47:05.:47:12.

it, not let it go by default and if we don't, blink, and it will be

:47:13.:47:22.

gone. There will be no more Wolf Halls.

:47:23.:47:31.

No, no. APPLAUSE

:47:32.:47:35.

It's time for us to stand up and say no to this dangerous nonsense. Thank

:47:36.:47:37.

you very much. CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

:47:38.:47:54.

This week the Government is due to publish its plans for the future of

:47:55.:48:02.

the BBC. There is speculation about what the plans might involve. Steve

:48:03.:48:08.

Hewlett is the man we turn to for BBC analysis. OK, what do we think

:48:09.:48:14.

is going to be in the white paper published on Thursday? Very little

:48:15.:48:17.

of what has been suggested to be honest. The whole thing is getting

:48:18.:48:21.

out of hand. It is getting hot and heavy. We have been waiting ages for

:48:22.:48:25.

this and it is coming up on Thursday and everyone is getting over

:48:26.:48:31.

excited. Is there any evidence of a full-on ideological assault on the

:48:32.:48:35.

BBC? The answer is, well I have no evidence for it. The answer is

:48:36.:48:39.

probably no. Some of what has been said appears to me to be on the face

:48:40.:48:42.

of it over the top. On the other hand, there have been weeks of

:48:43.:48:50.

briefings from around the DMCS, suggesting a Government might step

:48:51.:48:54.

in, the BBC might be forced to disclose the names of individual

:48:55.:48:58.

people, talent as it were, who earn individual amounts of money. We

:48:59.:49:02.

could talk about that, there is all sorts of issues about that. The BBC

:49:03.:49:07.

might be forced to sell this, sell that. A new board? So lots of leaks

:49:08.:49:18.

on one hand. Most of which are over briefed and over written and

:49:19.:49:22.

nonsense. What is really going on? Is there a fair question to ask

:49:23.:49:25.

about the BBC's market impact? Of course, there is. It is a huge

:49:26.:49:32.

public intervention. You can't put in $3.7 billion and keep your

:49:33.:49:35.

fingers crossed that you don't damage other people in the process.

:49:36.:49:39.

There are lines in the existing charter, and the one before, about

:49:40.:49:45.

the BBC's market impact. Do I expect something about the BBC's market

:49:46.:49:49.

impact? I hope so. It would be madness not to. Will it amount to

:49:50.:49:53.

John Whittingdale trying to schedule Saturday night? Not a chance. Let's

:49:54.:50:01.

bring in Lord Ali, he is launching a draft Bill against the proposals.

:50:02.:50:04.

Good morning to you. An independent TV producer and founder of the Great

:50:05.:50:10.

BBC Campaign. What is it that you're worried about then? I think there

:50:11.:50:14.

are three big tests for the white paper on Thursday. One, does it

:50:15.:50:17.

guarantee the independence of the BBC? Two, does it guarantee the

:50:18.:50:22.

licence fee throughout the Charter period? And three, does it guarantee

:50:23.:50:28.

the core mission of the BBC to educate, inform and entertain? And

:50:29.:50:31.

those three things are the tests that I will be looking at along with

:50:32.:50:36.

normal Fowler and Anthony Leicester as to whether they are guaranteed in

:50:37.:50:42.

the white paper. Everything John Whittingdale has done has been in

:50:43.:50:46.

effect to undermine those principles. I disagree with Steve. I

:50:47.:50:51.

do think the Culture Secretary is ideological opposed to the BBC. You

:50:52.:50:55.

saw that when he was joking with Conservative students last week,

:50:56.:50:58.

when he said that the demise of the BBC is a welcome thought. It was a

:50:59.:51:07.

joke! Yeah, but out of those jokes you get his sentiments. Can you tell

:51:08.:51:12.

our audience one thing that the Culture Secretary has done which

:51:13.:51:17.

undermines the BBC in the way you have described? So wanting to

:51:18.:51:21.

appoint directors to the board. Directly from Government. Talking

:51:22.:51:25.

about top-slicing the licence fee. Trying to replace the licence fee.

:51:26.:51:30.

Talking about making the BBC make less popular programmes. Looking at

:51:31.:51:36.

competitive scheduling. Now, this would all make sense if somehow ITV

:51:37.:51:42.

and Sky were in trouble. ITV and Sky are amazing organisations. They are

:51:43.:51:47.

extraordinary organisations. Sky made ten, on a turn-over of ?10

:51:48.:51:51.

billion and made ?1.7 billion of profit. ITV on a turnover of ?3

:51:52.:51:56.

billion made ?800 million of the these are not broadcasters in

:51:57.:52:00.

trouble. They are at their best. Why does the Secretary of State want to

:52:01.:52:04.

tie the BBC's hands? Thank you. Let me bring in John Red

:52:05.:52:15.

Wood who supports the Government's plans. John Red Wood, what do you

:52:16.:52:19.

want to change? What do you hope the Culture Secretary will change about

:52:20.:52:23.

the way the BBC operates? Well, as we've heard rightly from Stephen,

:52:24.:52:28.

most of these are scare stories. What do you want to see differently?

:52:29.:52:31.

The Government supports the BBC and it support the licence fee and it

:52:32.:52:35.

supports public service broadcasting. The issue which has

:52:36.:52:39.

been explored before and needs to be explored again is its competitive

:52:40.:52:43.

impact because we want lots of talent is isn't of the BBC able to

:52:44.:52:47.

produce interesting and challenging programmes. What would you like to

:52:48.:52:54.

see? My worry about the BBC, I don't think it lives up to one of the

:52:55.:52:57.

claims that it provides a challenge to power. If you take the issue of

:52:58.:53:03.

Europe and its involvement to our economy. I remember making the case

:53:04.:53:08.

in the print media and elsewhere that the European exchange rate

:53:09.:53:12.

mechanism would give us recession and mass unemployment. The BBC

:53:13.:53:15.

wouldn't run any of that as a programme. They happen to be true.

:53:16.:53:21.

That's going back a few years. You may well have a point. What do you

:53:22.:53:25.

want to change? We want a background where the BBC is able to challenge

:53:26.:53:29.

the establishment view when it is wrong as it was on the exchange rate

:53:30.:53:34.

mechanism and the euro and the print media allows us to challenge it and

:53:35.:53:38.

the BBC doesn't. It won't allow me to make the case about how I think

:53:39.:53:42.

we would be better off by leaving the European Union. That's not true.

:53:43.:53:45.

You have been on this programme making the case yourself! All these

:53:46.:53:49.

other people are saying we're going to be worse off. You know we have to

:53:50.:53:53.

balance it and we are doing a reasonable job of doing that. What

:53:54.:53:58.

is it that you're worried about? With all the discussions, I'm not

:53:59.:54:01.

hearing people talk about being a lover of the programmes. I'm a lover

:54:02.:54:12.

of the BBC. Along with most of the audience, radio appreciation 82% and

:54:13.:54:16.

I was on Newsnight talking about leaving Europe. There is a space for

:54:17.:54:20.

that type of debate. For me, the big issue is this shift from is it going

:54:21.:54:26.

to be a public broadcaster or is it going to become a State

:54:27.:54:29.

broadcasting? That's the thing. We can sit here like Steve you talked

:54:30.:54:32.

about what you thought would be in the white paper. The issue is there

:54:33.:54:35.

have been so many leaks, it is no wonder everyone has got into a

:54:36.:54:39.

state, quite a tizzy about it and it has got lots of people rightly

:54:40.:54:44.

talking. The politics of this are peculiar. And it goes back to how

:54:45.:54:48.

the whole thing started. The financial deal that the BBC, around

:54:49.:55:01.

which the BBC will be structured. It is an ?800 million cut, it is 20% of

:55:02.:55:10.

the BBC's budget. That's proper grievous bodily harm. That's serious

:55:11.:55:14.

whatever happens with the white paper. John Whittingdale and his

:55:15.:55:17.

department, it is cart before horse. You discuss the BBC, its size, its

:55:18.:55:22.

scope, its purposes, why bother and all these things, it is proper to

:55:23.:55:26.

discuss every ten years and say given that we should pay this.

:55:27.:55:28.

Unfortunately, it is the wrong way around. The debate has an unusual

:55:29.:55:35.

politics to it. That's the big question. What's the structure of

:55:36.:55:38.

the BBC going to be from this white paper? The BBC Trust has shown

:55:39.:55:44.

itself to be ineffective and politically, become something of a

:55:45.:55:47.

dead letter because was it the regulator, was it the cheerleader

:55:48.:55:50.

and those dreadful scenes in front of the Public Accounts Committee

:55:51.:55:54.

where the chairman of the BBC was attacking the Director-General over

:55:55.:55:57.

who knew what about how much executives were paid to leave. It

:55:58.:56:01.

was an unedifying sight and left people thinking this clearly doesn't

:56:02.:56:05.

work. The idea coming forward is a new unitary boardment fine, what

:56:06.:56:09.

happened? The BBC welcomed the unitary board, but thought hang on a

:56:10.:56:14.

minute, who appoints the directors? John Whittingdale has not said that

:56:15.:56:20.

it he intends to appoint the directors. He said that he didn't

:56:21.:56:24.

see why Government appointment per se undermined their independence

:56:25.:56:27.

because he said, the Government already... It will undermine. That's

:56:28.:56:35.

one of the big questions, isn't it? Is that an issue for you or are you

:56:36.:56:39.

not bothered who will appoint the directors of the BBC? Well, I want

:56:40.:56:44.

independent directors and I suspect that's what the Secretary of State

:56:45.:56:47.

wants. Quite often we have so-called independent bodies in this country

:56:48.:56:50.

where Governments do produce the nominees and they have a system

:56:51.:56:54.

using officials and outside advisors to get independent bodies. I really

:56:55.:56:58.

don't think the Secretary of State wants to run a propaganda outfit

:56:59.:57:03.

through the BBC. He knows that would be quite wrong and inappropriate. He

:57:04.:57:09.

said that he doesn't see the Government appointments undermine

:57:10.:57:13.

their independence. We have a so-called Bank of England Monetary

:57:14.:57:17.

Policy Committee, but they are appointed... You have to be brief?

:57:18.:57:21.

This is the BBC's operational board and if the Government appoints the

:57:22.:57:24.

majority of directors in the word out there, you can kiss goodbye to

:57:25.:57:28.

the perception at least... Is the governor of the Bank of England

:57:29.:57:31.

independent because he is appointed by the Bank of England? This is a

:57:32.:57:34.

big worry that people like myself have and I think the public have

:57:35.:57:38.

what, is the involvement that the Government will have and I think it

:57:39.:57:43.

is a dangerous step when they become involved. Do you think it is a

:57:44.:57:47.

dangerous step? I care about it. I want them to be independent. Who

:57:48.:57:51.

does appoint them? They do care about it because once you have those

:57:52.:57:55.

type of people on the highest level of the BBC then that filters down to

:57:56.:57:59.

the type of programmes we have. How do you do this? We will find out on

:58:00.:58:04.

Thursday. Paul says, "How nice to see a room full of millionaires. The

:58:05.:58:17.

BAFTAs last night. Night shouting for the BBC." James Nesbitt in

:58:18.:58:21.

support of the BBC. Joanna is here tomorrow and she will bring you

:58:22.:58:25.

access to a counterfeit drugs raid. Have a good day.

:58:26.:58:32.

Victoria speaks to Helen Wood, a former escort, about the effectiveness of injunctions. One of her clients, a famous actor, took legal action in 2011 to prevent his name being made public.

David speaks out about his experience of abuse as a teenager.

Lord Alli and John Redwood discuss the upcoming government white paper on the future of the BBC.