10/05/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

When we finally went to the court in Bath and I saw this man

standing and I thought, it's not a man - he's a monster.

Christopher Hampton was caught by complete chance -

we will speak to the police officer who worked on the case.

The five-year-olds with tooth decay - we'll ask why so many young

children are affected and what can be done to stop the rot.

We're also talking about drone attacks this morning.

Is it OK for our Government to target suspected terrorists

It follows the killing in Syria last year of a British citizen

We'll be asking if such attacks violate international law.

Do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning -

If you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate.

And don't forget if you've got a story you think we should be

Our top story today - one of the leading members

of the campaign for Britain to leave the EU says that Germany had

a 'de facto' veto over the Prime Minister's attempts

Senior Conservative Iain Duncan Smith says that David Cameron had

to ditch plans on curbing migration during his EU renegotiation

Our political guru Norman Smith is at Westminster.

Good morning, tell us what he is saying.

Number Ten are not categorically denying Mr Duncan Smith's claims,

just saying they don't recognise the number. They are saying that -- he

is saying that Angela Merkel blocked demands by Mr Cameron to impose what

is down as an emergency brake to hold EU migrants coming to Britain.

She was told about it and effectively said no. Mr Cameron

abandoned the demands. Mr Duncan Smith is saying that was typical of

the Prime Minister's approach to negotiations were Germany in effect

had a whip hand and was able to decide what Mr Cameron was able to

push for. We know that of course Germany was critical in bigger the

Asians because Downing Street spends an awful lot of time trying to woo

Mrs Merkel in the hope she will sell the deal to other EU countries, but

Mr Duncan Smith seems to be suggesting that it went a lot

further than that and Mrs Michael almost had to pick her fingers and

Mr Cameron would do what was required. Mr Duncan Smith also

suggests that the deal has less does -- left us in a worse position than

before Mr Cameron's negotiations, particularly in relation to London

and the city because he says we have surrendered our right to block

further eurozone integration and it means the rest of the EU may press

ahead with greater harmonisation of banking rules which could damage the

city. He is giving a speech later

campaigning on the Leeds side, Jeremy Corbyn also campaigning today

for remain. What is he up to today? He is launching Labour's battle bus,

touring towns up and down the country, and the aim is to try to

mobilise the Labour vote in favour of remaining in the EU, because both

sides in this campaign recognise that maybe the critical factor. If

you accept that probably the majority of Conservatives may

support Brexit, then those in favour of remain are desperate to get the

Labour vote out, and Mr Corbyn has never been one to bang the drum for

Europe so there is real pressure on him to galvanise Labour support.

Thank you, Norman. Ben Brown is in the BBC Newsroom

and has more on that and a summary One person has been killed and three

seriously injured after a man attacked commuters with a knife

at a train station The incident happened in Grafing,

east of Munich, shortly before 5am. Prosecutors say he had

an apparent Islamist motive. With us now is our Berlin

correspondent Jenny Hill. What is the latest? I can give you

an update because the police are now saying that the man they arrested

was a 27-year-old German man who they say wasn't known to them, he

was carrying a knife with a ten centimetre long blade and he

attacked apparently at random people on the train at the train station in

Grafing, it near Munich, but also outside it. One man, they say, died

as a result of the attack, one is seriously injured and two others

injured, although not critically, they were believed to be cyclists

waiting outside the station this morning. Eyewitness testimonies

suggested the man shouted Allahu Akbar, God is great, as he carried

out the attack, which is feeding into the suspicion that this was a

Terre motivated attack. Bear in mind Germany has not seen the kind of

major terror incidents like we have seen in places like Paris and

Brussels of late, but according to senior security officials Germany is

in the cross hairs of international terrorism, so that is certainly a

line of inquiry being looked at by police and prosecutors this morning.

OK, thank you very much indeed. The legal case for the use of drone

strikes against so-called Islamic State terrorists needs

urgent clarification, A report from the Joint Committee

on Human Rights says the Government's policy on the use

of military force outside of armed It follows the killing of a British

citizen who was fighting for IS in Syria by an

RAF drone last year. A grammar, punctuation and spelling

test due to be taken by all ten and 11-year-old children in England

this morning has been The answers appeared

on a password-protected It's the second mistake involving

SATs papers in the past three weeks. The Department for Education says

it's investigating the breach, The more challenging SATs introduced

this year have attracted their fair Last week, some parents

kept their children off school in a day of protest

over the assessments. Almost 50,000 people have now

signed a petition calling This latest blunder could further

anger already-sceptical It's the second time in just three

weeks that a primary school test has Last month, the spelling

and grammar assessments for six and seven-year-old children had

to be abandoned after the paper Now, the test for ten

and 11-year-olds has been published on a password-protected

website for exam markers Labour says confidence in the test

has been undermined, and has called for

an emergency review. Some have suggested the leak

invalidates the These tests are

completely compromised. That's why they had to scrap the key

stage one spelling and grammar test, and frankly what they should have

done was scrap today's test. The Department for Education says

it is aware of a breach and is urgently

investigating the matter. Whatever the eventual outcome,

600,000 ten and 11-year-olds will be taking the paper as planned

in classrooms across South Yorkshire police officers

are in Greece making a new appeal for help in finding out

what happened to toddler Ben Needham, who disappeared

on the island of Kos 25 years ago. Despite hundreds of reported

sightings over the years, Ben, who would now be aged 26,

has not been found. In January the force was given

Home Office funding to support the Greek authorities

in their continuing inquiries. Detective Superintendent Matt

Fenwick, who's in Athens, We're here today to appeal to people

of Kos, and appeal to those people directly.

I believe that it's highly likely that someone on Kos today

or somebody that has lived in Kos in the past will have

the answers and know what has happened to Ben Needham.

We want to appeal to those people to come forward and help us find

Anti-terrorist police have carried out a major training exercise

at Britain's second-largest shopping centre overnight.

The scenario, which involved a mock suicide bomber,

was staged at the Trafford Centre on the outskirts of Manchester.

Hundreds of volunteers played the role of shoppers,

in an operation designed to test the response of emergency services

The first pictures have emerged showing the full extent

of the damage from a huge wildfire that's engulfed a Canadian town

88,000 people were evacuated from Fort McMurray.

While much of the town is unscathed, some neighbourhoods have been almost

entirely destroyed, as Laura Bicker reports.

This was a family neighbourhood, with gardens to play in,

But the fire was brutal, so fierce that it has left only

Everything that made this a home is gone.

The fire chief here has called this a beast.

He said it jumped across roads, he said it took them by complete

surprise, they didn't know where it was going to end up next.

Officials are aware these images will be distressing,

but they want residents to know why it is not safe to

Under no circumstances go past the sidewalks into

And they want them to see parts of the city firefighters have

The fast action, and the hard work, and the dedication

and the smarts of these first responders has, it appears,

saved almost 90% of the city of Fort McMurray.

I'm told we've lost about 2400 structures.

We saved almost 25,000, including the hospital,

municipal buildings, and every functioning school.

But it will be these pictures which will haunt evacuees,

as they wait to find out when they can return.

The Alberta government says it will have a plan in two weeks.

Until then, any hopes of rebuilding will have to wait.

Donald Trump says the newly-elected Mayor of London Sadiq Khan would be

exempt from his proposed ban on Muslims entering

London's first Muslim Mayor had expressed concerns that,

because of his faith, he wouldn't be able to visit the US

if Mr Trump won the Presidential election.

The Republican hopeful was condemned by several world leaders last year

In the next half-an-hour we'll get the latest

figures on the state of five-year-olds'

Last month we reported on the big rise in the number of children

who are having rotten teeth taken out at hospital in England.

Dental decay is the biggest single reason for five to nine years

old being admitted to hospital, according to the analysis

Stargazers have been enjoying a rare transit of the planet Mercury

The event - which lasted about seven hours -

was impossible and dangerous to view with the naked eye or binoculars,

but could be seen through telescopes with strong filters,

The phenomenon will happen again in 2019, and then 2032.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News.

It is quite hard to spot, isn't it? We have got a comment from the

Department for Education on the sat tests, the news that the tests due

to be taken by ten and 11-year-old children in England this morning

have been posted online. We have been saying it was accidentally

posted online but a source at the Department for Education is saying,

while the test doesn't appear to have been leaked into the public

domain and can go-ahead, a rogue marker did attempt to lead the

contents online. It is clear there is an active campaign by those

people opposed to our reforms to undermine these tests and our

attempts to raise standards. That's just through from the

Department for Education, saying there is an active campaign by

people opposed to the reforms to try to undermine the tests. We will be

talking much more about that. And if your child is taking SATs

this week at their primary school, Do get in touch with us throughout

the morning - use the hashtag If you text, you will be

charged at the standard Olly Foster has the sport now

and a big night of football It promises to be an emotional

night in East London. West Ham play their last competitive

match at Upton Park. Manchester United are the visitors -

United won there in the Cup last month, but three points tonight

would take them into the top four Not so much riding on the result

for the Hammers but of course, wouldn't they love to go out

on a high. They move into the Olympic Stadium

next season but their manager has admitted that it

is going to be very, very hard to recreate the atmosphere

of the Boleyn Ground that makes it You are losing something. It is

going to be impossible to make the fortress of the Olympic Stadium

because that little bit of a hostile atmosphere, a bit intimidating for

away teams. Forget about it, no chance. Tuesday we have to play

against an opponent who says goodbye to the stadium, so they don't want

to lose in the old stadium. They have already lost against Manchester

United in the last FA Cup match. That is also his story. So, yes,

that is not good for us, and West Ham is a very good team.

You may have seen across the BBC, a special report about the rise

With massive government support they aim to be a world superpower

by 2050, and their domestic teams can already compete financially

The Executive Chairman of the Premier League thinks it can

The more domestic football in any country grows, the better it is for

us. There are examples all over the world where the domestic league is

much stronger than we are and we are happy to be number two, our clubs

are happy to be involved. It is fantastic for football if a country

as big as China wants to get ahold of it and grab it and embrace and

take on the world's game. Aljaz Bedene and Johana Konta

play their first round matches Heather Watson is already

through to the second round after an impressive win

against top 20 player Sara Errani, It went to three sets

but Watson took the decider. She faces the Czech Barbora Strycova

next. There was a team bronze

for Great Britain on the opening night of the European Aquatics

Championships in London. Matty Lee and Georgia Ward finished

behind Russia and Ukraine. Let's just return to football

because Burnley's big night They won the Championship title

on Saturday, but had to wait until last night at their town hall

to receive the trophy and medals except there were only 25 to give

out and the club put 27 players forward, one of those to miss

out was Joey Barton, their player of the season

who didn't seem best The club took the blame,

saying their was an Of all the players to upset!

It shouldn't be Joey bart onl! That's all your sport for now. I

will be back in half an hour. Should our government target

suspected terrorists thousands of miles away,

using drone strikes? MPs are concerned that such attacks

outside warzones could fall foul of international law and even lead

to the prosecution The cross party group of MPs

on the Joint Committee on Human Rights says the Government

needs to explain the legal basis It comes after this man,

Reyaad Khan, a British member of the so-called Islamic State

group, was killed by an RAF drone Informing parliament of the death,

David Cameron said the 21-year-old from Cardiff had been

plotting "barbaric" attacks. Both Junaid Hassan and Reyaad Khan

were British nationals based in Syria who were involved

in actively recruiting Isil sympathisers and seeking

to orchestrate specific and barbaric attacks against the West,

including directing a number of planned terrorist attacks right

here in Britain, such as plots to attack high-profile public

commemorations including those We should be under no

illusion their intention So on this occasion

we ourselves took action. Well, that was David Cameron after

that attack. Harriet Harman is a Labour MP

and the Chair of the Joint Jennifer Gibson is a lawyer

who leads Reprieve's work with families of people killed

by drones in Pakistan. Colonel Richard Kemp is a former

commander of British forces in Afghanistan and supports

the use of drones. Thank you all for coming in.

Harriet, first of all, was this attack legal? Well, I think that

without those proper scrutiny afterwards and without the

Government being clear about what the legal framework is, there is a

concern that there isn't a proper legal basis and that's what our

committee said. Nobody wants the Government to be standing by ringing

their hands not taking action if a terrorist abroad is planning a

brutal and barbaric attack on us here at home, but nor do we want,

when there is a killing in cold blood, a planned killing, for them

to not make sure that they are complying with the law. So the way

to do that, it might be to have a clear legal framework, but to have

scrutiny by the Intelligence and Security Committee afterwards. In

this case, the Government says there was a direct threat, a barbaric

attack was being planned? You talk about it as being an attack in cold

blood? Well, it was because he was targeted on a list, but I think that

what we've said is the Government have said they are going to be doing

more of these possibly if they feel it is necessary in say Libya or

Yemen and Somalia and if they're going to do that, there needs to be

some independent check afterwards and there is this committee called

the Intelligence and Security Committee which actually is security

cleared so it can look at secret information to say was the

intelligence services information right? Was this the right person

that they actually did kill? Was it necessary? I think we need that

independent check because if you're taking a life, if the State is

taking a life, even to protect lives, it is a serious matter and

there needs to be an independent check afterwards. So where would you

draw the line? You say that there could be similar drone attacks in

Libya, Yemen, Somalia. Would you accept drone attacks in those

countries or others provided there is a very clear case that can be

made that whoever is attacked is posing a direct threat? Well, our

Government is under a legal duty actually to protect our lives so

actually they are under a legal duty if somebody is going to kill people

in this country to take that action, but they need to take that action

within the law and one of the reasons is... Can there ever be

clarity within the law though? I think there can be. One of the

things that changed. It used to be the case there was an easy division

between law in relation to war where that's a broad and there is a

foreign state and you're fighting a war and there is laws apply to that,

if it is here at crime, it is crime and it is terrorism, but things have

changed with new technology which allows terrorists to plan attacks in

this country from hundreds of thousands of miles away and also

with the rise of Isil Daesh who are not a State, but they are a threat.

We say the Government should go to the European Council and the UN and

say there is a change in the circumstances. Let's make sure the

legal framework allows us to protect our people, but within the law. What

about bringing someone to justice? Well, if they can't bring someone to

justice because they can't arrest them, because it would not be safe

to be able for our armed forces to do that, then they are entitled

under law to actually kill them to prevent them killing us, but we have

got to be sure that actually that intelligence is right, not least

because if our military kills somebody abroad, then actually they

could still be vulnerable to a charge of murder unless they have

got a proper legal defence. Murder is the one crime where even if you

do it abroad, you can still be prosecuted for that offence in this

country. So unless they get the legal basis right, the military

carrying out their orders are vulnerable to a charge of murder and

we wouldn't want that. Are you concerned about that? Yes, I

think the report raises some very good points and I don't disagree

with anything that Harriet says here. We shouldn't forget that there

are people in various parts of the world, not just in places where

we're physically fighting them. There are people who want to kill

our citizens either here at home or elsewhere and it is the Government's

duty to prevent that happening, ideally in a foreign country the

Government should do, should use its influence and power to persuade that

country to take action, that's the ideal situation. Where it can't,

then it has to take action otherwise that might be by a drone strike. It

might be by a special forces raid, it could be by a fixed wing, a

manned aircraft strike, but the Government does have a

responsibility to do that. Is it something that concerns people

operating in the military that they may face charges? I think it does.

It is not just drone pilots and people that order drone strikes that

are worried, it is given the vast number of investigations that have

been taking place over Iraq and now Afghanistan into so-called illegal

activity by British forces, many of which are falsified, but it does

cause great concern among them. Many British troops feel that they are

don't necessarily have the protection. So I think the measures

that Harriet's committee is proposing, that the Government

imposes far greater clarity on what it is actually planning to do and

subject itself to scrutiny, I think is important, but that scrutiny, it

is a difficult issue because, of course, a lot of the basis for these

drone strikes are based on secret intelligence which even some of the

scrutiny committees may not be able to have access to perhaps until long

after the event. It is a difficult and complicated area, but I think it

does require clarification. Does that mean you could ever get the

sort of clarity that you want? Well, I think you could. We're not the

only country facing this new situation with terrorists

threatening us from abroad using new technology and the rise of Isil

Daesh, so I do think that there should be an international

discussion about whether we need a reviewed legal framework because of

the new circumstances in which we're trying to protect ourselves, but the

Intelligence and Security Committee, which is a committee of MPs, they

are MPs which have been security cleared so they should be allowed to

see the most secret and highest level of information. And the

Intelligence and Security Committee, we're suggesting, should be able to

look any time that the military outside of where there is a war

going on, if we're not at war, but they kill somebody who is a danger

to us, the Intelligence and Security Committee must be able to go through

it because what we don't want is standards to slipment we all know

that if you know somebody is looking over your shoulder at some future

time, you are more careful about making absolutely sure what you're

doing is right. Jennifer, you are a lawyer, you work with Reprieve, you

represent families of people who have been killed by drone attacks

and you gave evidence to the committee. What is your prospective

on whether there is clarity? I think the JCH is right to be concerned

both about the UK's position and a lack of position they seem to have

taken. We have seen with the US programme which has been going on

now for over eight years, a complete lack of any transparency around

where the strikes are happening, who has been killed and under what legal

framework. That confuse around the legal framework led to potentially

as 25% of those being killed as civilians. Without any

accountability and it has created massive amounts of kind of

resentment on the ground in these countries where the strikes are

going on and you now have US generals coming out saying the

programme is a failed strategy. It is counter productive to take the

targeted strikes against terrorists outside of war zones and yet what

you now have here in the UK... But if it is taking out people who are a

direct threat and Harriet Harman was talking about the responsibility of

governments to protect their citizens, why is it a failed

strategy? Because there was no transparency and no check on what

the Government was doing and it became a slippery slope. It stopped

being a programme targeting those who are facing an imminent direct

threat to the US and became about targeting anyone who posed maybe any

threat and the intelligence, the basis and the strength of the

intelligence has proven to be very weakment they were willing to take

strikes on weak or non-existent intelligence where they were killing

people they didn't even know what or who they were on the ground based on

signatures which are effectively patterns of behaviour, there is one

of the leaks from inside the CIA was that at one point the CIA director

used to see three men in a field doing jumping jacks and thought it

was a terrorist training camp and he would take a strike. That's why

accountability is so important. If the UK is going to go down this road

of engaging in targeted strikes like the US, there has from the out set

be a clear policy that sets out the legal framework in which the strikes

will be taken and proper accountability mechanisms to prevent

the failed strategy that the US is dealing with. The MoD said, "We will

take lawful action to address it and report to Parliament after we have

done so. Such actions are only to be carried out as a last resort when

all other options have been exhausted and we would always do so

in accordance with international humanitarian law. We will provide a

fuller response to the report in due course." Presumably your concerns

are what was outlined there by Jennifer about not getting to that

stage. Are you comfortable that we are far enough away from the sort of

scenarios that Jennifer was outlining and doing the right things

to make sure that doesn't happen? Well, no, I'm not, for two reasons.

There isn't any independent check-up afterwards and in order to comply

with law, you have to have an independent check-up afterwards, but

we're helping the Americans with what they're doing by sharing

intelligence and giving them intelligence about people that they

feel are a danger and allowing them to use our air bases for their drone

strikes. Now, if you're helping somebody do something, you are

sharing the responsibility and complicit with that if it is wrong

and therefore, we need to be sure that what we're doing to help the

Americans is also lawful and that's something also that the Intelligence

Intelligence and Security Committee should be looking at. Nobody wants

people in this country to be killed because our Government fails to act.

But if they're killing people in cold blood, in a place where we're

not at war, they're taking a life. It is really serious. And they must

be sure they get it right. For the Government to say, "We act within

the law." That's not good enough. It is not lawful just because the

Government say it is lawful, they have got to set out what they

believe to be the legal framework to be in a clear and unconfused way and

they haven't done that so far. Thank you all very much. Thank you.

Coming up, Melanie Road's murderer has been jailed for life after an

investigation lasting more than three decades. We will speak to a

police officer who worked on the case.

And the five-year-olds with tooth decay.

We'll ask why so many young children are affected and what can be

Ben Brown is in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

One of the leading members of the campaign to leave the EU,

Iain Duncan Smith, says Germany had a virtual veto over

David Cameron's demands during his EU referendum negotiations.

Mr Duncan Smith says the Prime Minister was forced

to abandon plans for an emergency brake on migration at the last

minute because Germany wouldn't back it.

Downing Street says Mr Cameron found a "more effective" way forward.

One person has been killed and three seriously injured after a man

attacked commuters with a knife at a train station

The incident happened in Grafing, east of Munich, shortly before 5am.

The man reportedly shouted "Allahu Akbar" during the attack.

Police say they have arrested a 27-year-old German national

suspected of carrying out the attack.

The legal case for the use of drone strikes against so-called

Islamic State terrorists needs urgent clarification,

A report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights says

the Government's policy on the use of military force outside of armed

It follows the killing of a British citizen who was fighting

for IS in Syria by an RAF drone last year.

A source at the Department for Education has told the BBC that a

rogue marker tried to lead the content of the grammar, punctuation

and spelling test that was being taken by all ten and 11-year-old

children in England this morning. The answers appeared

on a password-protected website and the Department says

the test can still go ahead as it hadn't gotten

into the public domain. It's the second mistake

involving SATs papers Police are offering a reward of

nearly ?10,000 in the search for Ben Needham, the Sheffield toddler who

disappeared on the Greek island of Kos in 1991.

Despite hundreds of reported sightings over the years, Ben,

who would now be aged 26, has not been found.

This morning police made a fresh appeal the information at the

farmhouse where he was last seen. That's a summary of the latest BBC

News - more at 10am. Olly Foster now has the morning's

sport headlines now. West Ham play their last competitive

match at Upton Park tonight. They move into the Olympic Stadium

next season but their manager Slaven Bilic has admitted

that it is going to be very hard to recreate the atmosphere

of the Boleyn Ground that makes it Manchester United will be

the last to experience it. They won there in the Cup last

month, but three points tonight would take them into the top four

in the league. The executive chairman

of the Premier League thinks the rise of football in China can

only be beneficial for the game. A special report by the BBC has

revealed the country's aim to be Heather Watson is through to

the second round of the Italian Open after an impressive win against top

20 player Sara Errani. Aljaz Bedene and Johanna Konta play

in the first round today. There was a team bronze

for Great Britain on the opening night of the European Aquatics

Championships in London. Matty Lee and Georgia Ward finished

behind Russia and Ukraine And I will have a full update in the

next hour. It took more than 30

years for Melanie Road's It was back in 1984

that the teenager from Bath was murdered as she walked home

from a nightclub near her home. Her killer, Christopher Hampton,

was not caught, and for decades he must have thought

he'd got away with it. That was until his daughter

was arrested on a minor charge years later and a DNA test on her showed

similarities with DNA found Yesterday 64-year-old Hampton

pleaded guilty to her murder and was sentenced to life

with a minimum term of 22 years. Melanie's mother Jean Road said

she thought the day I never did think she

would ever find him. I can't remember the exact words

but I do now remember saying And somehow they convinced me,

yes, but it is when we finally went to the court in Bath and I saw this

man standing and I thought, Then I realised that his wife

and his daughter were sitting behind me, both blonde hair,

the same as Melanie. How could he do that to somebody,

and then live with people like that I always said if I got hold of him

I'd strangle him or stick a knife into him and that is how I felt,

but I wouldn't even use I feel he should be shut up

in a dungeon like they used to in the olden days

and just left to rot, because he's not

worth looking after. I know that's against the law,

but I can think that. Detective Chief Inspector

Julie Mackay is from Avon She has been working on the case

for the last seven years. Thank you very much for joining us

this morning. Just an extraordinary story, you started working on the

case on the 25th anniversary of the murder. Complete chance in the end

led to this case being cracked, when his daughter had her DNA tested for

something else completely unrelated. Tell us about that moment, for you,

when that DNA match was flagged up? You can imagine, I had been working

on the case the six, nearly seven years, and I had consistently been

trying to find a match through the DNA, that was our best evidence that

we had. When I got the phone call to say that we finally had won, I just

thought about Melanie, because that is what it was all about, after all

those years, 31 years, it was about finding the person who had done this

to her, and we found him. If Christopher Hampton's daughter had

not given that DNA sample when she received a caution for criminal

damage in 2014, might the case never have been solved? There is

speculation about that but I always believed, from the day I started

investigating it, that we would solve it. I can't explain why that

is but I always had a good feeling I would would -- I would find who was

responsible and I did everything I could and used every opportunity I

could to achieve that, so I think eventually I would have found. I

don't doubt how but I think I would have found him. It was a brutal

murder, Melanie was just 17 and was stabbed 26 times, the judge said it

was for sexual gratification. You obviously have looked to see

whether he might have done anything else, have you turned up anything

else? No, nothing at all. As you would expect, when he gets arrested

we take is DNA, it is loaded onto the national database and

automatically compared against all crime scenes nationally. We also

have the opportunity to load partial profiles and I know that has been

done. There is nothing that we have, either information or evidence, to

link him to other crimes. It appears he has led 32 years of doing nothing

else. What was he like when you arrested him? Very calm, I think he

knew on that day. His wife had said to him, I will see you later, and he

said, no, you won't. She said, I will see you tomorrow, and he said,

no, you won't. At that moment he knew he would never go home again.

Do you see in key had always been waiting for a knock on the door? How

could you not, how could you have done something like that and not

think that finally... Or maybe he had become so complacently thought

we wouldn't. I don't know, he has never spoken, I don't know his view

on it. Did he say anything, what happened in the interviews? Nothing

at all, gave a prepared statement denying he was responsible and said

no comment all questions. He did not speak in court other than to plead

not guilty, no account whatsoever. Melanie's mum Jean says he is a

monster. How do you see him? I can understand why Jean says that, what

he did was brutal, brutal, and Melanie did not deserve that. I

don't understand what on earth possessed him to do that, to behave

like that, but Melanie, nobody deserved to be subjected to that.

Jean is 81 and feared she would die without seeking justice happen. I

just want to read the victim impact statement from Jean. She says:

Sleep was interrupted with constant nightmares.

I wandered aimlessly through the streets of Bath hoping

Searching the places we had visited together.

Where Melanie's blood was spilled, I prayed that it would not

rain to wash it away, and when it did I cursed the rain

I felt even the weather was against Melanie and the family.

We sat for hours traumatised by the horror of knowing Melanie

To never see her beautiful smile and girlish laughter

My husband refused to talk to me about Melanie.

I never knew if he discussed his feelings with anyone else

Therefore it was inevitable that we drifted apart.

Sadly Melanie's father, my husband, now lives in a haze of dementia

What was it like when you could finally tell her that you had found

the man that had done that to the family? It was an amazing day,

definitely one of the best days of my policing career, to be able to

speak to Jean and say, at last, we have found him. We knew how much it

would mean to her, and to Adrian and Karen, although they would never,

ever be able to move away from what had happened, at least this part

gives them some answers. Do you have any wider thoughts on the DNA

database and testing for it? Because it was a random element that ended

up with his daughter's DNA being tested, and that's leading to the

match. Do you think there should perhaps be more widespread testing

when DNA obviously can potentially unlock a case like this? It is

difficult to balance what is available to us through science, to

balance what is available to us through funding, it would cost a lot

of money to do this, and also against the desire to have justice

for any unsolved crime. In this case, Melanie Road, and for some

others as well that I have been involved in. I think what we have to

do is look at each investigation and identify what is the most efficient

and effective way to identify the offender, and if that is through

mass DNA testing them I am all for it, but it is hard, it is something

that takes a lot of resources and we need a lot of support to do it, so

it is not an easy route to take and if there were other ways of

achieving it then naturally we take them, but whatever it takes

hopefully, usually, we get there. What will stay with you from this

case? That is a hard question. I think the satisfaction that I was

the one who found him, the satisfaction that Jean and Karen and

Adrian finally know who was responsible, that means so much to

them. And really, finally, for Melanie, that even after 32 years

the person who did this to her has been caught. DCI Julie Mackay, thank

you very much for joining us this morning.

Figures out this morning have shown the number of five-year-olds with

rotten teeth has fallen but there are still big regional variations.

The latest information comes from Public Health England.

We'll be speaking to them in a moment.

It's a story we've covered on this programme before when it emerged

that dental decay is the biggest single reason for five

to nine-year-olds being admitted to hospital.

We heard from mother-of-two Dr Rachel Maynard who said

she was shocked and embarrassed after discovering her five-year-old

You want your child to become independent and be able to do these

things, so we tried to supervise his teeth brushing but we were letting

him do a lot of it himself. So the issue was the teeth at the back that

were difficult to get to? And especially the upper ones, children

often don't think about the upper ones when they are doing the bottom

teeth. What did it mean for Emily? We haven't had the same problems,

they have a very similar diet, obviously, and teeth brushing we

have done the same. But I think it is obviously different from child to

child to how their teeth are affected by it. Sam has a slightly

sweeter tooth, he likes his sweet food slightly more than Emily does.

It is difficult, because it is finding things that they can eat

that are good for their diet but not bad for their teeth. Because the

teeth are at the back, could you even see what was going on? I had no

idea. When was the first union? When the dentist showed me with the

mirror. They were very badly decayed, I was shocked and upset

that they were as bad as they were. It is difficult, you cannot see into

the back of the property is very easily, and I assumed that they

would look similar to the ones at the bottom, which you can see much

more easily, but they were bad and I was surprised. So he is now

waiting... Yes, to have two teeth taken out. You would presumably

advise parents to check with the Mirror? I was certainly very

surprised how different the bottom and the top could be. Then things

like making sure you are brushing your child's teeth, which we did do

at times, when we allowed him to brushes own teeth, and the other

thing is going to the dentist sooner than we did. When we took Emily at a

similar age, slightly younger, there were no problems and they said, that

is fine, comeback in a period of time, but each child is different

and when we went for Sam's appointment things were bad compared

with when we took a minute. Dr Sandra White, from

Public Health England is here. Tell us what the figures are? So the

report is good news. We have found that less than a quarter of the

children examined, the five-year-old children, had got dental decay.

Although one in four children with dental decay is too many, one child

with dental decay is too many. That's an improvement from where we

were looking at the same sort of methods from 2008 when there was a

third of the children with dental decay. When you say it is good news

that one in four, five-year-olds have got dental decay, it doesn't

sound like that on the face of it. The trend is downwards. Why is that?

That is happening? People are more aware of what causes dental decay.

Parents and society are away of the impact of sugar on teeth. People are

more aware of how protective fluid can be, so fluoride toothpaste so

that collective knowledge helps that people are trying to avoid sugary,

particularly sugary drinks for children. A lot of the proportion of

the sugar, they are having three times the amount of sugar that they

shouldn't behaving. What have the trends been over the years? Have the

figures got worse before they got better? It has been a steady

downward trend. From a methodology from 2008, we have had a three

points now where the dental decay has gone down from a third of our

five-year-olds to a quarter of our five-year-olds. We have still got to

make sure we continue to try and ensure that no child gets dental

decay. Where do you point the finer of responsibility, is it parents not

cleaning their kids teeth or Government policy? It is everybody's

business. Parents have a key role in this. They need to watch what their

children are eating and particularly drinking. They need to encourage

them to brush their teeth and help them, and brush their teeth

themselves when they are young children with a thrur ride

toothpaste. They need to ensure they get them to the dentist early. As

the last lady was saying, before the age of one. As soon as the first

tooth erupts, it needs to be brushed and get them to the dentist. Public

Health England provided evidence based information for dentists to

inform their patients. Our local authorities have got the

responsibility for improving the population's dental health. There is

a lot of interventions across the country around toothbrushing schemes

and thrur ride varnish schemes to improve things of the it is

everybody's business from health visitors and grandmas and grandpas,

everybody. Will the sugar drinks tax make a difference? There was a

report produced with eight recommendations alongside looking at

the amount of marketing and advertising and reform lation, a

sugar levy was in there as something that was evidence based and worked

in other areas. So you like it. It is just for sugary drinks though, do

you think it should be rolled out more? When you look at the

proportion of where children get their sugar from. A huge proportion

of their daily intake, if you look at children, is from sugary drinks.

And fruit juices. It is really important we hit that first. In the

end then, don't you just say to the parents actually, take

responsibility, just don't wait for a sugary drinks tax, don't give your

kids those drinks? Of course, it would be wonderful if everybody gave

their children water and low-fat milks, that would be marvellous and

made sure they had a healthy diet. The advertising and the marketing is

attractive to parents. And you know, you have a child at the check-out

that's asking for things and it is quite difficult sometimes for

parents. I said, it is the rotten teeth is the biggest reason for

children being admitted to hospital between five and nine. Is it the

same for five-year-olds and under? Even before five, children are

having general anaesthetics to have multiple teeth out. Sometimes we did

a three-year-old survey a couple of years ago and that showed 12% of our

three-year-olds and they have only just had their teeth through at

three, are having dental decay and are having to have general

anaesthetics and that's a tragedy because they will enter school

without teeth or rotten teeth and that can affect how they socialise

and talk and how they play with other children, it really does have

an impact. Our faces are a mirror to us and if we smile with a nice

smile, it makes a big difference when we start school. So it is

important we get it right. Iain Duncan Smith claims David

Cameron had to aban attempts to curb migrants from Europe. We will bring

you his speech about why he believes Britain should leave the European

Union. A source at the Department of

Education said it believed a rogue marker briefly placed the test on a

password frogted site to undermine Government reforms. The department

says the integrity of the test has not been compromised and schools

should deliver it as planned. Lucy Powell is the Shadow Education

Secretary and she joins me now. What do you think? Should kids be

sitting the test today after what happened? Look, they are sitting the

test today, but it brings into serious question whether this test

has got validity and whether it should be used going forward to hold

schools and children to account because I think if there has been

this serious security breach which there clearly has, it is hard to

know, I think it is hard for the department to even know who had

sight of the test beforehand with all the correct answers on there as

well and whether it will have been used to help some children today,

but I think it comes in a long line of frankly DIS asters that the

Government have overseen with the SATs which is why we are seeing a

loss of confidence amongst headteachers, teachers and parents

where this year's SATs tests which is a huge regret. The Department for

Education is suggesting it is deliberate sabotage. A source said,

"The test doesn't appear to have been leaked into the public domain,

but a rogue marker attempted to leak the test contents. It is clear there

is an active campaign by people opposed to our campaign to raise

standards." What do you think if there was a campaign like that. What

is clear, there is a huge loss of confidence in this year's SATs

tests. Why is that? My own, our eldest child took his SATs tests

last year and we all understood the SATs test last year and since then

the Government have abandoned, they got rid of the old levels, those who

have got parents in school that remember the 1A, 31, 4A, system of

checking your child's progress through primary school. They got rid

of that and replaced it with nothing. They brought in a new clum

too quickly. -- curriculum too quickly. That's why the Government

had to make 82 clarifications on this year's SATs tests since

September. That's the equivalent of changing the goal posts every other

working day since September. They, there was a leak of the Key Stage 1

SATs tests. The spelling test that was due to be sat last week. So the

Government had toy an don't that test. Nicky Morgan last weekend when

she spoke to headteachers had to change the goal posts on how schools

would be judged on SATs tests of the it is chaos out there in primary

school at the moment and it is no wonder this loss of confidence is

besetting the exams. You said you are a parent too. So you see this

not just as Shadow Education Secretary, but also as a parent. Do

you think kids are under too much pressure? Do you have sympathy with

the parents that took their children out of school for a day in protest

at this? I wouldn't condone any parent taking their children out of

school for the day, but I do understand how difficult it is to

prepare your child for tests when the goal posts are constantly

changing. What we have been seeing with year's SATs tests is how

unfamiliar the tests are to the children sitting they will. We heard

with the reading test of the brightest kids really struggling

with the test yesterday because tests are not about being so hard

that no one can actually sit them, tests should be about putting to

test the learning goals that you have abeen working towards

throughout the school year and that's just not what's been

happening. There has been a lot, hasn't there, about the sort of

questions being asked. Even David Cameron was asked one of them in the

Commons. You looked at the questions, can you answer them? Do

you think the standards are too high for young kids? I don't think it is

a question of whether the standards are high. I think this is a

misnomer, it is a question of, are there understandable and consistent

learning goals that are children are working towards and that they

understand when they are reaching the goals and when they want to

surpass the goals? The change isn't happening if it is being taught and

there are tests, that's indicating, isn't it, certain goals and levels?

Well, no, because what the Government have done is thrown the

entire primary assessment system up in the air. They have replaced it

with nothing. So they have anything but a robust assessment and testing

regime at the moment because it is totally not being understood by

teachers let alone parents. So it is really hard to give those clear

learning goals throughout a child's school life and throughout their

year 6 as is the case of the ten-year-olds today because the goal

posts are constantly changing because ministers are directly

meddling in the curriculum and in the SATs. In the spirit of trying to

make it harder, but they are not making it harder, they are making it

inpresent trable and incomprehensible and not

understandable and therefore, kids are struggling to sit them. A

spokesman for the Department for Education says the tests should not

be be a cause of stress for pupils. The truth is if they don't master

literacy and numeracy early on, they risk being held behind and

struggling for the rest of their lives. We're determined to prevent

this by helping every child reach their full potential? No one is a

more pushy parent than me when it comes to wanting high expectations

for all of our children and I would make no apology for that as well,

but a robust assessment system has to be consistent. It has to be

understandable. It has to have clear learning goals within it. So that

children can stretch themselves and teachers can be stretching the

children to meet the goals and you ask any headteacher at the moment in

prime eand any teacher and everyone is stabbing in the dark as to what

the levels are that are required. The Government has done this

meddling consistently and throughout the year and it left the whole

system in disarray. We teach our children, don't we, to apologise

when they make mistake and I think ministers today, you know, given the

extent of all these mistakes they have made with the SATs should

apologise to the ten and 11-year-olds who they caused stress

and anxiety to. Have you come across kids crying about this because they

are so stressed? There are lots of stories just yesterday with the

reading SATs test I have had people contact me from Manchester. We have

seen lots of things being posted online about children, even the

brightest children are struggling to even understand what was expected of

them with this test yesterday. That's not what testing is about.

Testing is about have I learned and achieved my learning goals for my

primary school it is sn it is not about being presented with an

unfamiliar test that you are struggling to even access because

the Government have changed the goal posts all the way. Lucy Powell,

thank you very much. Let's get the latest

weather update with Carol. It has been so sunny, what's in

store today? It lass been mixed fortunes. Now it is the turn of the

north of the country to have the gorgeous sunny weather. Let me show

you some pictures or BBC Weather Watchers sent N this is from the

Isle of Skye. How idyllic does that look? Isn't it just perfect. It was

the Isle of Skye's warmest May ever! That's a good stat. This is from

Aberdeenshire. You can see the lovely blue sky. We have got the on

shore breeze, so that's pegging the temperatures back a bit. Coming

further south, talking about mixed fortunes, again from this morning,

another picture of Durham. Fairly cloudy. We are looking at some rain.

Rain in Windsor this morning and fairly cloudy. It looked like

someone's car windscreen. It is. Well spotted. So it is mixed

fortunes dead pend on where you are and that's going to be the story for

the rest of the day. What we have today is mixed fortunes. In England

and Wales, there is a lot of cloud. We've got rain and also some

showers. There are some brighter skies as well. But where the sun

comes out in the south for example, that will spark off some showers

later on. They could be heavy and thundery through the afternoon. So

we've got the rain moving slowly northwards and we ares wards. To the

north of that, as we saw on the satellite picture, there is quite a

bit of cloud across parts of Northern England. That could produce

showers. We could see showers across Northern Ireland. For Scotland, it

will be dry and here we will have the highest temperatures again. 24

Celsius maybe 25 Celsius. Around the East Coast, we have got the on shore

breeze taking the temperatures downment for Northern Ireland, and

Northern England, again a fine day for most. But still that chill in

the east with one or two showers. This a band of rain advancing

northwards and towards the west and some of that will be heavy and

thundery. And then as temperatures rise in the south-west, we're

looking at some further torrential downpours which could be thundery.

Something to be aware of. The showers, so not all of us will see

them. We hang on to the rain band, but it is breaking up. For the north

of the country, some clearer skies and mist and fog forming, but there

will be a bit of coastal fog and hill fog along the South Coast for

example. Now, through tomorrow, our whole system continues to move north

and west, continuing to break up. There will be showers around, but

there will be more sunshine where we've got the rain today and that's

reflected in the temperatures. Still dry and sunny across the north of

the country through Scotland and the west seeing the highest temperatures

and still the easterly breeze down the East Coast taking the edge of

the temperatures. For Thursday, a drier, and a brighter day. Still

cooler with the breeze from the east. There will be sunshine around.

We might catch the odd shower coming in across Cornwall and possibly

Devon at times. Warming up in the south. A high of 24 Celsius.

Temperatures will come down across the western Highlands. In Glasgow,

for example, we are looking at 18 Celsius and Belfast 16 Celsius. Then

as we go through the rest of the week, is this warm weather going to

last? No, not for the weekend. We see this blue Huw return to the

charts indicating temperatures are coming down, but only temporarily.

Hello, it's 10am, I'm Joanna Gosling -

welcome to the programme if you've just joined us.

A senior Conservative - claims David Cameron had to abandon

attempts to curb migration from Europe after protests

Iain Duncan Smith will shortly make a speech about why he believes

Britain should leave the European Union.

Saps test being taken in English primary school survey is leaked

online, officials launched a campaign and say -- Lodge and best

edition adds a rogue marker determined to undermine the test is

to blame. Should our Government target

suspected terrorists thousands of miles away,

using drone strikes? MPs are concerned that such attacks

outside warzones could fall foul Was the intelligence service's

information right? Was this the right person that they did kill? Was

it necessary? I think we need that independent check because if the

state is taking a life, even to protect lives, it is a serious

matter and there needs to be an independent check afterwards.

Here's Ben Brown in the BBC Newsroom with a summary of today's news.

One of the leading members of the campaign to leave the EU,

Iain Duncan Smith, says Germany had a virtual veto over David Cameron's

demands during his EU referendum negotiations.

Mr Duncan Smith says the Prime Minister was forced

to abandon plans for an emergency brake on migration at the last

minute because Germany would not back it.

Downing Street says Mr Cameron found a "more effective" way forward.

The Department for Education says it is urgently investigating the leak

of a saps test for children aged ten and 11 in England.

A source at the Department for Education has told the BBC that

a 'rogue marker' leaked the answers to a SATs paper on grammar,

punctuation and spelling online to undermine the tests and reforms.

It's the second time that an upcoming SATs paper has been

published online in the past three weeks.

One person has been killed and three seriously injured after a man

attacked commuters with a knife at a train station

The incident happened in Grafing, east of Munich, shortly before 5am.

The man reportedly shouted "Allahu Akbar" during the attack.

Police say they have arrested a 27-year-old German national

suspected of carrying out the attack.

The legal case for the use of drone strikes against so-called

Islamic State terrorists needs urgent clarification,

A report from the Joint Committee on Human Rights says

the Government's policy on the use of military force outside of armed

It follows the killing of a British citizen who was fighting

for IS in Syria by an RAF drone last year.

Police are offering a reward of nearly ?10,000 in the search

for Ben Needham, the toddler from Sheffield who disappeared

Despite hundreds of reported sightings over the years, Ben,

who would now be aged 26, has not been found.

This morning officers from South Yorkshire Police made

a new appeal for information at the farmhouse where

The number of five-year-olds suffering from tooth decay

in England has dropped to its lowest level in almost a decade but there

The oral health survey for Publich Health England suggests

that in the North West a third of five-year-olds

suffer from tooth decay, whereas only a fifth do

Doctor Sandra White from Public Health England told this programme

people were thinking more about the damage that sugar can do. I think

people are more aware of what causes dental decay. Parents and society

are aware of the impact of sugar on teeth, people are

more aware of how protective fluoride can be, so fluoride

toothpaste, and so that collective knowledge helps, that people are

trying to avoid particularly sugary drinks for children. A lot of the

proportion of the sugar, they have three times the amount of sugar they

should be having and a lot of that comes from sugary drinks.

That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 10.30am.

Lots of you getting in touch about those figures on rotten teeth. I

exist, it is not new, I worked in community dental in the 1980s and

the lists were always fall for extraction is for children. John has

tweeted, what indeed is down to parents, sugary substances, lack of

cleaning and no dentist visits. Clint says, it is down to lazy

parenting, my mum would not let me out of the house when I was younger

until my teeth were brushed. Peter says, mothers today give their

children dummies to suck even at two to five years old which has

detrimental affect on their teeth. Also, why did children need to eat

sweets if they have had three good meals a day?

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning on everything we are

talking about. If you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate. It promises to be an emotional

night in East London - West Ham play their last competitive

match at Upton Park tonight. They won there in the Cup last

month, but three points tonight would take them into the top four

in the league. Not so much riding on the result

for the Hammers but, of course, wouldn't they love to go out

on a high. They move into the Olympic stadium

next season but their manager has admitted that it is

going to be very, very hard to recreate the atmosphere

of the Boleyn Ground that makes it You are losing something, it is

going to be impossible to make a fortress of the Olympic Stadium

because that is a little bit of hostile atmosphere, to be a bit

intimidating for the away team. Forget about it, no chance. Choose

stay we have to play against an opponent who says goodbye to the

stadium, so they don't want to lose in the old stadium. They have

already lost to Manchester United in the last FA match, that is also

history, so it is not good for us. And West Ham United is a very good

team. United and West Ham will be playing Burnley next season in the

Premier League. Their big night did not go to plan, we showed you what

happened in the last hour. They won the title, had their troppo

presentation last night, 27 players went to pick up the medals except

there were only 25 being given out. One of those missing out was Joey

Barton, their Player of the Season. He did not seem best pleased at the

time but look at this, he posted this picture with his family, and

medal around his neck. Probably best not to regulate where he got it

from! I still think two players probably do not have a medal this

morning -- Bubba be best not to speculate will stop it is important

they all get their medals, I'm glad he got it, that was a great picture.

German prosecutors say that one of four people stabbed at a train

station in Grafing near Munich has died. Was due to say it appears to

have had an Islamist motive. -- prosecutors say. That's good our

correspondent. Why do they said there was an Islamist motive?

There are two reasons, one is that two statement eyewitnesses say the

man issued while attacking commuters on this train, first of all he is

reported to have shouted out God is great in Arabic, and also in German,

according to one journalist who has spoken to eyewitnesses there, also,

you are all unbelievers, in German. This was a 27-year-old German man

who is now being questioned by police. Police say he is not

talking, not giving any permission, but the authorities here suspect,

they say it is a politically motivated attack, but the big

question is whether it is an Islamist motivated attack, the big

fear here in Europe since the Brussels and Paris terror attacks

recently. The problem is that if he is not talking we don't really know,

and all the conjecture so far is only based on these eyewitness

reports. They had not been confirmed. What we do know is he got

on the train, he wielded a knife with a ten centimetre blade, he

randomly attacked commuters, he then got out onto the platform, started

attacking more people, and then he tried to attack some cyclists. So

far one person has died, three people are injured, one of them

quite seriously. What concerns have there been about

extremism in Germany? A lot of concerns. Since the terror

attacks in Paris and Brussels, that has been a big topic here, German

authorities said the country effectively is in a state of high

alert, but actually there has been a fear of an Islamist terror attack in

Germany since 9/11, and there have been lots of questions asked as to

why there hasn't been a major terror attack here so far. One question

might be whether it is simply because the security forces are so

efficient. Other people really point to the fact that there is a large

Muslim speaking community -- Muslim community here, but that is a

Turkish community, not traditionally more extremist. There are lots of

questions as to why there hasn't been a major terror attack so far,

and that is exactly why today's incident is so worrying for people,

because what we have had over the last few months is a few minor

attacks where even teenagers have wielded knives and the worry is that

there is some sort of momentum growing and that a terror attack is

on the way, said this incident this morning, the authorities are taking

this extremely seriously indeed. Thank you.

With just over six weeks to go until the EU referendum, former

Welfare Secretary Iain Duncan Smith is about to make a speech about why

he believes Britain should leave the European Union.

We'll have that speech live for you - but first we can speak

to our political guru Norman Smith, who's there.

In the rain, poor you! He has been talking this morning, saying that

Angela Merkel tide David Cameron's hands over the EU renegotiation.

Tell us what he is claiming? What Iain Duncan Smith is in effect

saying is that when Mr Cameron tried to negotiate his EU deal basically

the German Chancellor had a veto, she was given sight of what he was

proposing and if he did not like it then Mr Cameron dropped it.

Specifically, says Mr Duncan Smith, this idea of an emergency brake to

stop EU migrants coming into Britain. Mr Cameron, says Mr Duncan

Smith, was going to include that in his demand but when he ran it passed

Mrs Merkel, she said, no, no, we cannot have that,

we will not agree to that, and the plan was dropped. Number Ten have

not categorically denied that there was German involvement in the

negotiations, but they say they don't recognise what Mr Duncan Smith

is saying. He is arguing that the deal which Mr Cameron so

painstakingly negotiated may actually have weakened our position

is not just in terms of migrants but also in terms of the position of the

city, because he says that Mr Cameron surrendered the power

Britain has the block further eurozone integration, that is

countries in the Euro harmonising their banking call was more tightly,

and that, it is argued, is a direct threat to the City of London. Let me

just flag up to you, I think what he said this morning will be superseded

by what he is about to say in the next ten or 15 minutes, because I

have had a look at the speech, I cannot tell you exactly what is in

it but it is a fundamental new argument in the whole EU referendum

debate. What is interesting is Mr Duncan Smith appears to be trying to

make a pitch for those critical Labour voters who many people

believe could determine the outcome of this referendum, because the

thinking is by and large most Tory supporters will probably go with

Brexit, the Labour vote, therefore, is absolutely critical.

That is quite at ease to say there is a fundamental new argument! We

are six weeks away and it feel that we have heard all of the arguments.

When you are like me and you live and breed this stuff every day, you

get a little bit weary, shall we say, with the familiar argument on

sovereignty and security and the economy. Today Mr Duncan Smith is

putting a new gym and on the table, and I think it is interesting # row

a new argument, because it is a direct pitch for the Labour vote. He

has already said as much, it is about his view that the European

Union compounds social injustice. That is the area he is looking at,

things like austerities, immigration, the impact on public

services, that is the area he is looking game but a key part of it is

whether Mr Duncan Smith has found a way of reaching out to the Labour

vote. Just down the river, you cannot see it, but Jeremy Corbyn is

launching Labour's battle bus to try to galvanise the Labour vote behind

staying in the European Union, and there is huge pressure on him to

take a lead in this, to make strenuous efforts, because there is

a suspicion he is not really that keen, not that fussed about the

European Union because he has been a long-time critic on it, so if there

is any sign that he is not really pushing to get the Labour boat out,

but Mr Duncan 's bid is, there will be enormous criticism of him.

We will bring you that speech live when it happens.

We've got two audience debates on the EU referendum coming up.

Whether you are still making your mind up or have already decided how

you are going to vote, it's a chance to share your views

and to quiz senior politicians leading the Leave

If you are aged 18 and 29 you can apply for the BBC One evening debate

presented by Victoria in Glasgow on 26th May.

Or you can apply for the Manchester debate on Monday, 26th June.

That is open to anyone eligible to vote in the referendum.

Email [email protected] or go to the programme website to apply.

More than 1,250 unnamed men, women and children who died trying

to cross the Mediterranean to seek a new life in Europe have been

buried in unmarked graves at over 70 sites in Turkey,

Over the past two years it's estimated that thousands have

lost their lives trying to cross into Europe.

Most are lost at sea, but many bodies have been washed

ashore, bringing horror to the beaches of Greece,

The BBC's Rami Ruhayem reports from Lesbos.

Everybody is paying attention to the refugees making it alive to Greece

or Europe. The people who are dead, a few people are concerned about.

There is no database for the people who are drowned. The only thing we

know that they started from Turkey and everything vanished. With the

bodies, with the names. The Government is being urged

to clarify the legal case for the use of drone strikes outside

of armed conflict. The call, from a committee of MPs,

follows the killing of a British member of the so-called

Islamic State group last August. We can speak to Dave Cummins,

a former Royal Air Force pilot who has also operated drones

from an Air Force base in Nevada Thank you very much for joining us.

Tell us what it is like operating a drone. Being on the frontline, but

removed from it. It is an interesting role and we're only

really learning the benefits of that over the last five to ten years and

the situation that drone pilots have versus your combat pilots, the

situation awareness and the ability those guys have to draw on

information during conflict is advanced. Operating drones have you

ever had any concerns about what you're doing and about where you

might be targeting people? No, I think it is really important that we

do draw the distinction here. The rules of armed conflict, the law,

the rules of engagement, Human Rights, that's the same whether you

are flying a weapon, or firing a weapon. It doesn't change because

you're operating a drone. We're having trouble hearing you. You cut

out a bit there. You said you haven't had concerns. Are you able

to tell us much about where you've operated drones? And where you have

carried out attacks with those drones? Well, they are five years

ago. I was in the military during the Iraq and Afghanistan conflict.

There is no distinction versus a soldier on the ground or a sniper

1.5 mile from the conflict. The big difference when you are on the

ground, you are in the environment. Tell us what it is like, you are

away from it, maybe you might be living at home and then you go into

the office and it is like a war game, but it is having a real life

impact? I can assure you, it is not like a war game, but it is a surreal

environment both from working in combat and doing a 12 hour mission

every day in my case, it was six-and-a-half years, I have been

doing this now. And you're right there is a difference between

operating combat for 12 hours and walking home to your family and

spending the day with your family. Does it make thaw one step removed

from what you're doing so that you, I don't know, maybe, less emotion

involved. Would that be a fair thing to say? No, I would say it is the

opposite in a drone. Unlike a combat aircraft or unlike a sniper or

soldier who might pitch up and flight a conflict and it can be

transient of the with a drone you can be there for days and weeks in

advance and you will be thereafter the strike to witness the situation

unfold for hours or days. Who is around you making the call on

when the strike is actually launched? What we're talking about

today is concerns around the legality and we have touched on that

with you, but are there military lawyers around to offer advice? It

depends on the type of strike. Everything from self-defence which

is the pilot's call all the way through to a pre-planned mission

which would be down to the commanders and the lawyers.

We're struggling to hear you, but it has been good to get your

prospective on operating drones. Thank you very much indeed.

Lots of you getting in touch. John e-mailed to say, "Politicians will

never share how they really feel about the use of drones. Our forces

need to be as careful as they can, but we need to be resolute in our

determination to defend our way of life. The so-called Brit who was

killed by a drone would seem to be a lit jit mat casualty of war." Chris

says, "What rot if people go to fight with IS they give up all their

Human Rights. What rights did the people have in Paris and Brussels.

That's why we need to get out of the EU and look after ourselves." Joe

making the case for drone permissible on the basis of

pre-emptive strike on the basis of self-defence. IS strike

indiscriminately and barbaricically. Lorraine says, "If it is against

Islamic State terrorists, the answer is question." Tom e-mailed, "Here we

go again, the terrorists can kill our people with impunity, if we go

after them, we are at fault. How about backing our articled forces

who put their lives on the line to keep us safe."

Still to come, could we finally have the answer to reducing

Scientists in the US have developed a so-called second skin made out

of silicone that might be the solution.

We'll ask a dermatologist whether it's too good to be true.

The Department for Education says its urgently investigating

the online leak of a primary school Sats test which is being taken

by 600,000 children aged 10 and 11 in England.

Earlier a source at the department told the BBC that it believed

a rogue marker had briefly placed the test on a password

The department says the integrity of the test hasn't been compromised

and schools should deliver it as planned.

Our education correspondent Robert Pigott is here.

So the Government seems to be suggesting this is deliberate

sabotage? Yes, it says it is a rogue marker and not just an accidental

mistake as it were. It is under the kosh. There has been a lot of

problems with the tests for primary school children. It comes at an

embarrassing time the the Government is very keen to place distance

between the idea that it has messed up again, if you like, and to insert

this idea that it was deliberate by somebody trying to sabotage the

tests. They said before that an investigation would be carried out.

Are they saying the investigation has been done and this is the case?

It is a suspicion. They are minimising the impact of this saying

it is different from the Key Stage 1 tests, these are the ones for six

and seven-year-olds where they had to be abon donned because the tests

mp were published in January as part of practise material. They are

saying this time only 90 odd people would have seen this and it was only

for four hours last night until it was removed. Minimising the impact

saying the tests will still go ahead and the marks will still count and

schools should disregard this as a breach of the, as a fatal breach of

the test. How would you gauge the strength of feeling against the

SATs? And where it is coming from and if it is coming from u you know,

not, I suppose, a politically motivated campaign, if you could put

it like that. How much pressure would it be putting on the ground if

it is a ground swell of parents opinion? It is an interesting

question. It is difficult to assess how big that momentum, how big that

ground swell is. We saw the parents taking kids out of school on

Tuesday. So about, you know, we were thinking that thousands of children,

just by doing a rough back of an envelope calculation must have been

taken out of school. We don't know the real numbers and it is difficult

to tell when an organised group get together and make something happen

just how big a ground swell that represents. Certainly teachers and

teaching unions and they are represented by the National

Association of Headteachers are very unhappy about the tests and are

calling for them, for this year's test results to be scrapped for

schools not to be held to account as they could be for today's tests.

There is that sense and there is also, I think, Labour sensing blood

here, that there is a series of mistakes that happened all the way

back to when the Key Stage 1 tests had to be abandoned and the tests

for four-year-olds had to be postponed for a year because three

tests put out by the Government were found not to be comparable with each

other. There is a history here and a growing sense of unease amongst the

teaching profession that there is something wrong about the speed and

the complexity of the reforms being made and that's where the Government

is vulnerable on this and of course this is overshadowed, by the

academies and the climb Down that nishgy Morgan had to make on that.

So the Government is in a weak position. Very keen for this not to

be seen as yet another mistake by them themselves. Thank you, Robert.

Some comments on this. Mike says, I'm a parent and I have to say Lucy

Powell has irritated me. I understand her opinions are to some

extent ballad but we are in a position where the assessment is

what it is, if you want your child to succeed in having exams to work

towards and aim for three primary School is vital. When it is time to

go to high school, doesn't everyone want their child to be ready for the

steep learning curve ahead? Another e-mail, why is the

Government forcing that tests on children? Learning to read and write

is fundamental and should be fun. My children were able to do both before

attending school as we made it into a game. Don't get me started on

phonics, another poor position by the Government.

Another e-mail, my grandson was hopeless at reading and spelling as

six and seven years old, he is now at university.

Let's catch up with the news, Ben Brown is in the BBC newsroom.

One of the leading members of the campaign to leave the EU,

Iain Duncan Smith, says Germany had a virtual veto over David Cameron's

demands during his EU referendum negotiations.

Mr Duncan Smith says the Prime Minister was forced

to abandon plans for an emergency brake on migration at the last

minute because Germany would not back it.

Downing Street says Mr Cameron found a "more effective" way forward.

Mr Duncan Smith is due to begin his speech in the next few minutes and

we will bring that to you live. Sorry, I will rudely interrupt you!

We are going to go to Iain Duncan Smith's speech on the Vote Leave

campaign. My feet are better off Britons who

have done well in recent years is to consider their vote in the

referendum to vote for a better deal for people who have not enjoyed the

same benefit as maybe they have, because the EU, despite its grand

early intentions, has become, I believe, a friend of the haves

rather than beer is not WHO. Do you row has greatly favoured already

wealthy Germany at the expense of southern Europe. You row has meant

serious unemployment for millions of young Greeks, Spaniards and Italians

and has produced political extremism across the continent. The EU is also

working well for big bands, the fail is financed by extreme austerity in

countries like Greece largely benefiting financial institutions

that lent irresponsibly before the crash, and caused it. The EU is also

working for big corporate that benefit from mass immigration,

businesses that have decade in the productivity and training of their

own local workforces and have no reason as I can see it to mend their

ways so long as cheap labour can be imported from abroad. But if the EU

is working for Germany, the banks, for big corporate and for the public

affairs of companies with large lobbying operations in Brussels, the

EU isn't working for overregulated small business and, more

importantly, lower paid and lower skilled Britons. They now have to

compete with millions of people from abroad for jobs and the wage rise.

The Government's migration advisory committee reported that for every

100 migrants employed here, 23 UK born workers would have been

displaced. The construction of the Olympic Park was a powerful

illustration of the way in which those migrants who had come in

undercooked UK workers through their willingness to end your -- enjoy a

family friendly living conditions. Visiting at the time I met skilled

and unskilled workers who struggled to get work on that site. I asked

why, they said people from Eastern Europe often living in bedsit in

various parts of East London without the UK housing and family costs that

they do hugely underbid them for their work. Those stories have since

been borne out by the facts. Despite the statement about the Olympic Park

working at macro helping British workers, we now know almost half the

jobs on the site went to foreign nationals. I find the Labour Party's

current position somewhat ironic. As Frank Field has pointed out, saying

they are now in favour of staying in the EU, they are acting against the

interest of the communities they purport to serve. Even Stuart Rose

of the stronger In campaign has admitted that immigration at the

pain of the poor in a rare moment of candour, maybe one of the reasons we

no longer see him on the television or the radio, and acknowledged that

wages will go up for many Britons is immigration is restricted. The

downward pressure on wages is a trend that will only get worse if we

continue to have absolutely open borders with the EU, and I believe

would get much worse if we ended up in a recession. Bank of England

study in December 2015 concluded, and I want to quote this, the

biggest effect is that the semi-unskilled service sector a ten

percentage rise in the implement of immigrant is a circuit with a 2%

reduction in pay. This significantly affects British workers, especially

those on low wages. EU migration has increased by 50% since 2010 on

official figures. If the number of EU job-seekers entering the UK over

the next decade remain at current levels, some 690,000 people, and I

repeat that, 690,000 people will have been added to the UK population

as a direct result. With five more countries due to join, the number

looks conservative. This would be the equivalent of a city the size of

Glasgow in the UK. Another big negative economic effect of the

level of immigration is that British people have never voted for and do

not want, house prices. Young people are the biggest losers from this,

forced to pay an ever larger share of their income on accommodation and

suffering longer commutes after having to move far away from their

families. The fact is that we need to build around 240 houses every day

for the next 20 years just to be able to cope with the increased

demand on future migration. Of course there are a number of issues

in the difficulty to get housing in the UK but the impact of

uncontrolled immigration makes it an major factor in the demand for

housing, one that simply cannot be denied or ignored. Official data

shows that over the last 15 years over two thirds, 66% of additional

households created in the UK were headed by a person born abroad. The

struggle to get on the housing ladder is one that affects families

up and down the UK. Such is the pressure that the average age for a

first-time buyer is now 31. Everyone should have the opportunity, I

believe, and always have done, to own their own home but as the EU

continues to expand to other countries that as Macedonia Albania

and Turkey, population pressures of remaining in the EU, if someone

votes to remain in the EU, can only make that prospect less likely. As

the Government's own recent figures show, to cope with the kind of

pressure that immigration is placing on the school system, the taxpayer

is having to fund extra school places equivalent to building 27 new

average sized secondary schools or 100 new primary schools. My Vote

Leave and Conservative colleague Priti Patel was correct when she

highlighted recently the fact that as always when public services are

under pressure those without the resources to afford the alternatives

are most vulnerable and most affected. In short, getting a place

in your local school gets more and more difficult. The heavy burden of

EU regulation is particularly hard on the smaller businesses that all

evidence shows are the best route back to the workforce for those who

are unemployed. Even though the vast majority of these businesses never

trade with the EU, they are subject to EU red tape at the cost of tens

of billions of pounds. Those regulations don't just mean lower

profits for small entrepreneurs. They also mean fewer new businesses

starting up, and fewer jobs created. Then there are the higher grocery

prices that the EU's Common Agricultural Policy has produced.

The independent House of Commons library has concluded that EU

membership actually increases the cost of living, and they stated that

the EU's Common Agricultural Policy, and I quote, artificially in the

rates food prices, and that consumer prices across a range of other goods

imported from outside the EU are raised as a result of the common

external tariff, and trade imposed by the EU. These tariff barriers

have an effect and these include footwear, 70% tariff, bicycles, 15%

tariff, and a range of clothing at cold percent tariff. This may not

sound like a lot -- 12% tariff. This may not sound like a lot for better

off families but for many it is the difference between paying the rent

and not being able to pay the rent. This takes me back to my central

point. What I think are the best compassionate instincts of the

British people, when you vote on the 23rd of June, even if you believe

what you are now being told by those who want you to vote to remain in

the European Union, that you may on balance have done OK from the

European Union, I want you to think about the people who haven't, and,

just as importantly, think about the economic changes that are coming

down the tracks very fast and ask yourself very seriously whether

Britain in charge of all policy levers would be better equipped to

cope with those changes than a Britain that is part of what all

evidence suggests is a dysfunctional, declining, high

unemployment European Union. Because this EU vote, this EU vote is

happening at a time of enormous global upheaval. We are at the point

in the development of the world economy where, if we are not

careful, we are going to see a huge rise and an explosion in the

have-nots, increasing divide between people who have a home of their own

and those who, to coin a phrase used recently, are at the back of the